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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know

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Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me is Charles W.

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Speaker 1: Punkin Bryant. Yeah, doing his cheeks. How you know I'm

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Speaker 1: in the heavy That's that's why he's right there? Coolio.

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Speaker 1: This is double good luck. Okay, well good then this

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Speaker 1: should probably be a pretty good podcast, which means we

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Speaker 1: are doomed. Yes, Josh, Before we get going, can I

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Speaker 1: just mentioned a little TV show coming up, uh, the

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Speaker 1: Road to Punkin Chunkin and Punkin Chunking itself naturally? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that, Josh is Thanksgiving Night your board after your

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Speaker 1: Turkey o on the Science Channel eight Eastern time. Right,

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Speaker 1: So insert clever intro chunck. Have you ever been a hostage? No?

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Speaker 1: Nor have I. I I would remember that, I think, but

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Speaker 1: you would. Have you ever seen Inside Man? Uh? No?

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Speaker 1: Is that which one was at Denzel? No? I didn't

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Speaker 1: see that, Clive Owen, I wanted to dude, that is

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, I haven't seen Dog Day Afternoon, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's the greatest hostage movie ever made. You

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Speaker 1: haven't seen Dog Day Afternoon. No, Chuck, I'm not seventy

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Speaker 1: like you. Oh, I forgot that they burned all the

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Speaker 1: copies in nineteen when you were born in the Great

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Speaker 1: Fire started by a who. Dog Afternoon was gold. You

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Speaker 1: should check it out. I will check it up. You

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Speaker 1: know a hundred year old movie. No, I'm sure it's good.

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Speaker 1: It was Paccino, it is prom sure, yeah, before he

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Speaker 1: just went absolutely nuts. Um, well, okay, neither one of

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Speaker 1: us has been a hostage or seeing each other's movies, right,

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Speaker 1: But no, we must seen war games. But I can

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Speaker 1: imagine that if either one of us were a hostage,

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Speaker 1: there would be a hostage negotiator outside. Right, I would

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Speaker 1: be dead pretty soon. I think if I were a hostage,

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Speaker 1: has a pizza delivery person could have delivered that that

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Speaker 1: segway better than me? Yeah? Yeah, in thirty minutes or less.

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Speaker 1: Yeah uh so, Yeah, Josh, let's talk about hostage and negotiation.

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Speaker 1: I can't say that word negotiations. Yes, Chuck, let's it is.

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Speaker 1: There's a few things going on. Usually the hostage taker

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Speaker 1: is want something, yeah, money, or they want to free

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Speaker 1: their brothers that are political prisoners or um, they want

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Speaker 1: safe passage or something like that, right, or they want

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Speaker 1: you know, some country to stop some policy at and uh,

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Speaker 1: usually the target of the hostage shaker is not the

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Speaker 1: hostage but some other third party. Yeah and yeah, but

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll get to the exception on that. And I was,

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Speaker 1: I was chomping at the bit, right, I know, finally

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Speaker 1: they are hostages are usually only bargaining chips that have

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Speaker 1: symbolic value, right, Like for example, the nineteen seventy two

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Speaker 1: Olympic Games in Munich, the hostages there had some serious

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Speaker 1: symbolic value. They were, um, Israeli athletes and uh what

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Speaker 1: kind of what kind of terrorists? Well, the target was

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Speaker 1: the Israeli government clearly, not the athletes. They were the pawn,

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Speaker 1: the symbolic pawn. Much like in the nineteen seventy two

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Speaker 1: Olympics in Munich, the hostage crisis that happened there over

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Speaker 1: what a twenty four period, Um, a bunch of Palestinian

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Speaker 1: terrorists took some Israeli athletes hostage, and they were targeting Israel.

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Speaker 1: So these were very symbolic pawns. I guess, as you'd

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Speaker 1: put them, right, did you see Munich did you say,

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Speaker 1: my god, it's a good movie. Man, that's a good one. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so Josh, now we can move on to the

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Speaker 1: phases of a hostage situation. Okay, the initial phase, so Chuck, yes,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's let's dramatize this a little bit. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the initial phase. Yeah, we're just a group of people

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Speaker 1: hanging out and say a bank. Sure, we'll do a bank.

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, a bunch of guys

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Speaker 1: come through the door, kicking off what's known as the

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Speaker 1: initial phase, right, like you said, already, right, And what's

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Speaker 1: the initial phase, Chuck? It is a initial stage of

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Speaker 1: panic and violence where they subdue the hostages and uh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's very um. So during the initial phase they

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Speaker 1: come in, everybody get on the floor, right, right, and

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Speaker 1: then they barred the doors, and uh, the initial phase

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Speaker 1: is very brief. Did he like my machine gun? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That's good. Then comes the negotiation phase, and that's when

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Speaker 1: Johnny Law comes on the scene, and that's generally called

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Speaker 1: the standoff phase. Right, And this is almost always the

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Speaker 1: longest phase of a hostage situation. This is when all

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Speaker 1: the negotiation is taking place, when they send in pizza

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Speaker 1: boxes with little cameras and people have to pee, and

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Speaker 1: the negotiators saying, if there's a pregnant woman in their

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Speaker 1: letter out stuff just when people have to pee. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good one. And then the final phases that

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Speaker 1: the ter a nation phase. And uh, you've got a

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Speaker 1: few different results that can happen here. Um, either the

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Speaker 1: hostage takers surrender and they're arrested, or the police uh

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Speaker 1: kind of mountain assault and kill them or arrest them,

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Speaker 1: or their demands are granted and they get away. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the second one is actually what happened. Actually, combination

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Speaker 1: of two and three is what happened in Munich. As

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Speaker 1: anybody who's seen the movie knows. Um, the West German

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Speaker 1: police are like, we can't take these guys that, we

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Speaker 1: need to let them think that they're actually going to

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Speaker 1: escape and get them to the airport. All the hostages

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Speaker 1: were killed, along with a pilot and a police officer.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh the rest of the um, the hostage takers,

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Speaker 1: the Palestinian terrorists were killed except for three who were

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Speaker 1: captured right there. It was a blood bath, basically, Well,

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Speaker 1: I thought they were hunted down later, didn't that What

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Speaker 1: Munich was about the people who engineered it. Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: supposedly hunted down later by the massad bright Eric Bannah,

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Speaker 1: who is just clearly most solid material the Australian massade. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, those are the three phases. And um during

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Speaker 1: the second phases when the negotiator comes on the scene,

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Speaker 1: right and UM, if you've ever seen the movie Negotiator,

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Speaker 1: the negotiators clearly disappointed. Um. But there was something that

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Speaker 1: is very characteristic of hostage negotiation, and that is it's

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Speaker 1: a very important point that the hostage negotiator not be

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Speaker 1: the league commander on the scene. And why Chuck well

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Speaker 1: because um, Well, for a couple of reasons. One is

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Speaker 1: that the negotiator doesn't need to be multitasking right then,

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Speaker 1: they need to have all their focus on talking to

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Speaker 1: and talking down the hostage taker. This one reason that's

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Speaker 1: part of it. They also, um, one of the one

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Speaker 1: of the great tactics that hostage negotiators use is um

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Speaker 1: to stall and they prolonged the situation. That seems like

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Speaker 1: the main tactic, right, it's just by time. One of

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Speaker 1: the one of the tactics they use to create that tactic,

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Speaker 1: UM is to say, well, I can't make that call

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Speaker 1: I've got to talk to somebody else. Um, And if

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Speaker 1: it's common knowledge that the hostage negotiator actually is commanding

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Speaker 1: the scene, then that doesn't really work. Right. They'll say, well,

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Speaker 1: you can pull the trigger on that because you're the

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Speaker 1: boss exactly, and they're like, no, no, no, don't use

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Speaker 1: that phrase. Right. That's in every movie, every single hostage

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Speaker 1: movie is that scene where they go, well, I just

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Speaker 1: can't give you a seven forty seven full of gold bars, dude.

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Speaker 1: I gotta get clearance from Fort Knox and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: take at least a day, so you might want to

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Speaker 1: lower your demands, which is actually another reason they stalled

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Speaker 1: to try and chip away at the demands. So the

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Speaker 1: negotiators on the scene and he's trying to prolong the situation.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, um, they're trying to lessen the demands.

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Speaker 1: They're also um, but they also stall and prolong the

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Speaker 1: situation by um, getting the hostage takers to focus on

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Speaker 1: some minute and really unimportant details. Yeah, I like this.

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Speaker 1: They try to derail them, so like the seven forty seven,

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Speaker 1: what kind of seven forty seven do you want? It?

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Speaker 1: Is it okay if it was built before? Because we've

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Speaker 1: got some that are built after that. But then they

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Speaker 1: have this seating arrangement that might be a problem for you,

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Speaker 1: And and all of a sudden, you're distracting the hostage

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Speaker 1: taker from the crisis at hand, and he's thinking about

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Speaker 1: what kind of seven seven he wants? You know, I

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Speaker 1: could just see the guy putting his hand over the

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Speaker 1: thing and going, what kind of plane do we want?

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Speaker 1: He's asking about seek configurations. I have no idea, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's also they hang up, and then you've bought some time,

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Speaker 1: right And and not only um, not every hostage taker

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Speaker 1: once a seven forty seven, but this can also be

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Speaker 1: applied to even more minute details, like what do you

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Speaker 1: want on your pizza? You know? Well, I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you really want bell pepper because you're getting onion already

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it's too crunchy. I imagine there's a point

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Speaker 1: where if you're talking to a hostage taker and you

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Speaker 1: try the bell Pepper onion combo, because all they're gonna

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Speaker 1: pick up on what you're doing, or if they've read

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Speaker 1: this article or ever ever seen a hostage movie, be

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Speaker 1: sure that's another good they would probably be wise to

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Speaker 1: say it. It sounds to me like you're trying to

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Speaker 1: buy some time here, bang bang, indeed, which is what

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Speaker 1: the hostage negotiator does not want to happen. No, that's

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Speaker 1: number two on their list. One is to prolong it.

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Speaker 1: And while while they're prolonging it, we should mention that

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Speaker 1: there trying to get information as much information as possible

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Speaker 1: on who the person is, how many there are, what's

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Speaker 1: frame of mind they're in, if they're unstable, if they're violent, um,

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Speaker 1: any kind of clue that can that can help him out, right,

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Speaker 1: Because a hostage negotiator is going to talk differently. They're

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Speaker 1: not going to try that Bell pepper onion thing on

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Speaker 1: like a very cool, calculated Clive Owens type, but they

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Speaker 1: might on somebody who's like just out of his mind

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Speaker 1: crazy because his wife is leaving him. Right, which is

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Speaker 1: actually the most common hostage situation is a domestic dispute

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Speaker 1: that's turned into some guy with the gun barricading he

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Speaker 1: and his family in their home. Yeah, you usually think

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Speaker 1: of the big movie scenario with some foreign enemy taking

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Speaker 1: all these people hot stage, but it's usually just a

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Speaker 1: regular domestic scene. And the worst ones, man, the worst

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Speaker 1: ones of those you see on the news where you

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Speaker 1: see some dudes got a baby acting as a human shield.

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Speaker 1: Who does that? You've never seen that? No, Oh man,

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Speaker 1: it's it's the worst watching those cop shows, that those

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Speaker 1: true crime shows. A baby is a human shield. Guys.

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Speaker 1: It's like the dad is out of his mind and

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Speaker 1: uh on drugs or something and he'll have his baby

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Speaker 1: and it's just it's the worst thing in the world

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Speaker 1: to watch unfold, very disturbing. Well bet in fact, don't

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Speaker 1: go see that, Joshua. That'll keep you up at night.

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Speaker 1: I bet it will. So that is the most common

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Speaker 1: type of things domestic. But back to the safety of

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Speaker 1: the hostages. That's number two on the list of the

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Speaker 1: negotiators to keep everyone in there alive, right, I would

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Speaker 1: think could technically be number one. Well, prolonging the situation

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Speaker 1: I think leads to number one. So it's the kind

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Speaker 1: of tied right. So, um, what you want to do

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Speaker 1: if you're a negotiator and you are chipping away at demands.

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Speaker 1: First of all, you're trying to get the seven forty

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Speaker 1: seven out the window or the gold bars from Fort Knox,

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Speaker 1: But you're really trying to get to the heart of

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Speaker 1: what what does this guy want? He wants the seven

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Speaker 1: forty seven and he wants gold bars. Well, he wants

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Speaker 1: to escape and he wants some money, So maybe it

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Speaker 1: can be dealt with on a lesser level. But first,

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Speaker 1: let's get you some food in there. But to get

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Speaker 1: you some food, I need a hostage. To get as

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Speaker 1: many hostages out as possible. Number one, to ensure the

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Speaker 1: safety of the hostages, as you said, but number two

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Speaker 1: for if when when an assault comes, if it does come,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot fewer hostages in there that the police

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Speaker 1: need to not shoot, you know, Plus the hostage did

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Speaker 1: you just say this, The hostage can turn if they

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Speaker 1: release someone who's like ill or pregnant, they can give

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Speaker 1: them information, insider information, right, like, even to create an

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Speaker 1: even more distinct psychological profile. That kind of right, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I like the fact that you were talking about the

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Speaker 1: lessening the demands, like we can't get your seven forty

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Speaker 1: seven and gold bars, and it really could. I could

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Speaker 1: see that throwing the hostage taker into a tizzy. If

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden there have to decide, well, will

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Speaker 1: you take a helicopter in a cash years chat? That

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Speaker 1: kind of well, actually I hadn't thought it before, but

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Speaker 1: will you endorse it before him right, Yeah, let's go

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Speaker 1: to the bank. Oh I'm in a bank. Awesome, Yes,

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Speaker 1: bring me that cast. Here's check please. So number three

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Speaker 1: on their list is to keep everything calm. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to upset a hostage taker. No, you're gonna keep

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Speaker 1: everything nice and chill, especially following the initial phase, that

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Speaker 1: initial assault. The guys all jacked up on like adrenaline.

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Speaker 1: He's a little crazy. All of a sudden, it's starting

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Speaker 1: to sink in if he accidentally took hostages, starting to

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Speaker 1: sinking like, oh my god, I'm I am a hostage taker.

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Speaker 1: Now this is a little nuts. So you want to

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Speaker 1: keep the guy calm, or the guys or the gals calm,

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Speaker 1: especially if it was a biter mine Hoff experiment. No

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Speaker 1: idea what that is. It's actually the there's a movie

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Speaker 1: out called the Body mine Hoff Complex, I think um.

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Speaker 1: And they actually introduced terrorism to the Western world where

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Speaker 1: was a group of Germans, German radicals, Kevin Space, basically

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Speaker 1: board kids that introduced things like skyjacking and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: They were crazy crazy, uh so, Josh. The fourth thing,

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Speaker 1: and this was my favorite one. Actually, one of the

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Speaker 1: goals of the hostage negotiator is to um, get the

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Speaker 1: hostage taker and the hostages to work together to give

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Speaker 1: them some task where they have to interact, like delivering

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Speaker 1: the pizza. So send out, um, you're you're most agreeable

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Speaker 1: hostage that you trust the most to get the pizza

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Speaker 1: and bring it in. So all of a sudden, the

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Speaker 1: hostage taker has to talk to the hostages and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we need you to go and get the pizza because

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Speaker 1: we can't go within the sniper range. And the more

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Speaker 1: you get them interacting, the more chance that the hostage

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Speaker 1: taker sees the hostage as a human instead of just

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Speaker 1: blind phoning them and putting them in the corner right

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Speaker 1: or in shooting them in the head. There was actually

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Speaker 1: a very famous case of that in some hostage takers

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Speaker 1: took over a subway train or a train in Holland

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Speaker 1: and a guy named Robert de Groot was about to

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Speaker 1: be executed Chuck, and apparently they allowed him to pray first,

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Speaker 1: and they heard him praying for his wife and children,

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Speaker 1: and they got them so bad that they just couldn't

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Speaker 1: execute the guy, so they actually fake executed him. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the standoff continued, and when it came time to execute

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Speaker 1: more hostages, they didn't give him a chance to pray

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Speaker 1: and just actually executed him. And I'm sure they pushed

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Speaker 1: him off the train and he rolled down the hill

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Speaker 1: and like faked like he was dead. And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: the rest of the hostages were like, thanks, Bob, you

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Speaker 1: right now we don't even not only can we not pray,

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Speaker 1: but we're getting a bullet in the head. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about that, like this is you feel

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Speaker 1: so removed from it. The weird thing about being a

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Speaker 1: hostage is like, no one plans on being a hostage.

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Speaker 1: It just happens all of a sudden. And imagine dying

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Speaker 1: on a train on some track in halland by being

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Speaker 1: executed by some hostage taker during a standoff. What a

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Speaker 1: crap way to die. You ride on the money there, brother, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so Chuck, I think I think it's pretty damn pretentious

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Speaker 1: of us to have not brought up Stockholm syndrome yet,

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Speaker 1: don't you. Yeah, go ahead identifying with your captor. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it actually came out of a bank robbery and I

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Speaker 1: think nineteen eighty one um in Stockholm appropriately enough, and uh,

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Speaker 1: this this bank robbers plan just kind of went to crap.

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Speaker 1: And I've been like using pseudo bad words all day,

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Speaker 1: stupid and weird. This bank robbers plan kind of went

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Speaker 1: to pot and all of a sudden he was a

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Speaker 1: hostage taker. Right, Well, this standoff continued, and strangely enough,

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Speaker 1: the hostage just started helping him. They were serving his lookouts.

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Speaker 1: They were giving him advice on how to escape and

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Speaker 1: how to deal with the negotiator and all that. And

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Speaker 1: that's kind of odd if you think about it. So

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Speaker 1: why would why would people suffer this what they call

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Speaker 1: Stockholm syndrome. Well, there's a lot of psychological reasons for it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: defense mechanism, coping, coping type of thing. Well, yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you feel powerless in a situation like that, you go

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Speaker 1: to whoever has the power, and when you're a hostage,

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Speaker 1: your hostage taker has the power. Yeah. And the other

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Speaker 1: thing I mentioned too, is that if you're not killed

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Speaker 1: and there are other hostages are killed, you feel such

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Speaker 1: a sense of relief that can actually morph into sympathy.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like I remember we did the brainwashing

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah podcast? Yeah, good one. Uh you want to

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Speaker 1: talk about countries and some famous non negotiating countries. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you remember the eighties, it was like planes were

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Speaker 1: getting hijacked everywhere all over the body Mine Hoff. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the the United States, Russia, and Israel are all very

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Speaker 1: well known for having a non negotiating policy with hostage

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Speaker 1: takers and terrorists. France had the opposite didn't work out

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Speaker 1: for him, though, No, it didn't. France became very quickly

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Speaker 1: a target um for hostage to a king because France

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Speaker 1: would apparently be like, what do you want? Ha ha ha. Right,

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Speaker 1: And apparently sometimes, and this doesn't surprise me, the countries

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Speaker 1: that refused quote unquote refused to negotiate, there might be

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Speaker 1: some secret negotiations that happened that they never let out

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Speaker 1: because that would destroy their front that they won't negotiate, right.

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Speaker 1: And France also apparently had a little problem with um

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Speaker 1: forming agreements with hostage takers, and then the hostage takers

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Speaker 1: would break the agreements, which is crazy, can you believe it?

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Speaker 1: With a bunch of So there is a there's an equilibrium,

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Speaker 1: Chuck loves equilibrium. But there's an equilibrium between not negotiating

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Speaker 1: at all and over negotiating. And I think that's what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. It's kind of like negotiating on the

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Speaker 1: download and never talking about it and then hunting the

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Speaker 1: people down who did this and murdering them. Right, So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what happens when you just absolutely refused

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Speaker 1: to negotiate, as we've seen actually in the twenty one century,

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Speaker 1: sadly enough twice in Russia. Yeah, a couple of famous

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Speaker 1: occurrences there with the Muslim Chechen separatists. In two thousand two,

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Speaker 1: they took over a theater in Russia, threatened to blow

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Speaker 1: it up, and so the Russians go in and wonder

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Speaker 1: who who was it putin? You think the guy who

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Speaker 1: wrestles tigers with his shirt off in front of news cameras,

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Speaker 1: don't you don't bear his hallmark? Yeah, they decided to

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Speaker 1: storm the theater and uh send in some knockout gas

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Speaker 1: instead of negotiating, and they ended up killing all. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's all of them, but a hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty nine hostages died from the knockout knockout gas.

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Speaker 1: That's not knockout, guess that's death gass. I think that's

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Speaker 1: what you mean by knockout. I don't think they just

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Speaker 1: don't want to call it death gass. Maybe. So my

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Speaker 1: eyes are open now because I didn't realize that was

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Speaker 1: a euphemism. The other one, Josh, was really really sad.

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Speaker 1: I remember this one while in oh four when the

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Speaker 1: same Chechen separatists invaded an elementary school with guns and

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Speaker 1: bombs and locked themselves up in a gym and Russia

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Speaker 1: would not Negotia eight and three of the hostages that

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Speaker 1: were killed. Yeah, that was awful. And half of them

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Speaker 1: were kids. When they blew up the gymnasium, it was terrible.

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Speaker 1: Listen up Putin. Yeah, but you maintain your toughness and

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna negotiate. Just kill the kids. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: chuck you you okay there, Yeah, I'm good. I'm good.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about a hostage situation that actually went relatively well,

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Speaker 1: at least compared to UM Russia. I know what you're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about. Well, there's a very famous incident at

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Speaker 1: Prince's Gate UH in London in April UM members of

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Revolutionary Movement for the Liberation of Arabistan changed

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Speaker 1: that name. It's a mouthful, isn't it. Basically Arabistan is

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Speaker 1: an Iranian province UH, and the group wanted to liberate

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Speaker 1: it clearly UM. And they were Democrats I guess. But

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Speaker 1: they were. They were I think twenty of them and

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Speaker 1: they took no, there were six of them and they

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Speaker 1: took twenty six hostages at the US Embassy in London

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Speaker 1: at Prince's Gate. So there was a uh standoff that

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Speaker 1: lasted quite a while. Um. The hostage negotiator did this.

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Speaker 1: By the book, UH kept the hostage takers focused on

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Speaker 1: details like what kind of food do you want? That

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um, Yeah, I'm in the mood for time.

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Speaker 1: I could go for a nice um curry bunha. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that sounds good. That's Indian though. That's good stuff, by

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Speaker 1: the way, if you've ever had it. Um. They actually

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Speaker 1: did execute one hostage, but the other hostages apparently reported

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Speaker 1: that this guy UM decided to get into a debate

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Speaker 1: over Islam with Iranian terrorists, which you don't do in

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Speaker 1: a hostage situation if you hostage. The negotiator actually did

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Speaker 1: manage to get the release of two ill hostages. Um.

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Speaker 1: Maybe one of them is pregnant. Sometimes when you replaced

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Speaker 1: ill with pregnant, which I don't understand, And they got

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Speaker 1: info from them. Yeah. And so basically the one thing

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Speaker 1: that really wasn't by the book was that the the

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Speaker 1: s a. Yes, got the which is the Special Forces

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Speaker 1: in Great Britain. They are bad. I have a friend

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Speaker 1: who's in that. Yeah, I can't say his name here, okay. Um,

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Speaker 1: they got the hostage negotiator to talk to the hostage

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Speaker 1: takers on the phone right before the assault, knowing the

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Speaker 1: assault was coming as a distraction. Right. That doesn't happen much,

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Speaker 1: not usually. And why because they don't let the negotiator

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Speaker 1: in on this kind of information, because they think that

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Speaker 1: they would compromise the job just through maybe even inflection

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00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: or tone of their voice. They would give it away

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Speaker 1: right on purpose. Of course, No, no, certainly not. Very

390
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Speaker 1: few hostage negotiators experienced Stockholm syndrome negotiation. Definitely just mentally

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Speaker 1: crumble at the first time. But this it actually paid off.

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Speaker 1: The hostage negotiator cut the um lead guy away from

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Speaker 1: the window and the s A S storm the bill

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Speaker 1: boom too tap. I imagine five of the guys and

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Speaker 1: arrest the sixth. Ye not bad. And I think they

396
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Speaker 1: only lost one other hostage, uh twenty six, which is

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Speaker 1: not bad. No, but I mean if your storm of

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Speaker 1: building in the hostage situation, it's like, well, yeah, that

399
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Speaker 1: guy lost his life and another guy lost his life.

400
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Speaker 1: But it's like, yeah, but that's actually really good percentage,

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Speaker 1: I would image. I mean, I wonder what well I

402
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Speaker 1: would guess the two thousand four Russian standoff is probably

403
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Speaker 1: a bit as bad as it can get. Yeah, I

404
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Speaker 1: would say so. One thing we mentioned there that I

405
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Speaker 1: thought was pretty interesting was you mentioned the Stockholm syndrome.

406
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Speaker 1: But that is actually a tactic that the negotiator will use,

407
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Speaker 1: sort of sort of a good cop bad cop thing. Uh.

408
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Speaker 1: They'll get on the phone or what however they're communicating

409
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Speaker 1: and say, yeah, you know I actually they'll try and

410
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Speaker 1: relate to them. I kind of see where you're coming from.

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Speaker 1: I understand this police captain does not understand where you're

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Speaker 1: coming from, and he wants to mow you down. To

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Speaker 1: talk to me, man, and we'll work it out between us. Chuck,

414
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Speaker 1: you would make it excellent hostage negotiated. I just realized

415
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Speaker 1: I wish I had a hostage I could give to

416
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Speaker 1: you right now. That was good. Oh, I just offer

417
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Speaker 1: you a six pack and you throw it down, your

418
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: gun all over pretty much and some smokes. But that's

419
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Speaker 1: a pretty cool trick there. I like that. Of course, again,

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Speaker 1: this is straight out of the movie. So if any

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Speaker 1: Hotches Staker has ever seen any of these films and

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Speaker 1: they should be one step ahead of the negotiator, I

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00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: would think so. Um there's another um example of not

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00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 1: going by the book that I wanted to mention. Uh

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00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: in in nineteen seventy five of the U. S Consulate

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00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: and Kuala Lumpoor, Malaysia, UM, there was there was a

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00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: hostage situation and uh apparently the Japanese Red Army, members

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00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: of the Japanese Red Army UM attacked the consulate and

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00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: took hostages. So the terrorists actually called the the authorities

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00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: to tell them that they had the hostages, and some

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00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: junior officer at the at the embassy elsewhere in the

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00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: embassy picked up the phone and from that point on,

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Speaker 1: for the rest of the standoff, they wouldn't talk to

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00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: anybody else but this junior officer. Wow, yeah, who was

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00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: not a trained hostage to negotiate it. And it's just like, oh, god,

436
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: well he probably has an eating Well, no, there was

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00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: a negotiator on the scene, like coaching, coaching the junior officer.

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00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah. I also saw in the article where

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00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: there's um, there's always a second, a secondary negotiator on

440
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: the hand, because sometimes, because you're basically improving, you gotta

441
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: be quick on your feet, and if all of a

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00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: sudden you're going ah, had that, you need someone to

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00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 1: step in and say tell them that will send them pizza.

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00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: That first one sounded exactly like Kevin Spacey in The Negotiator.

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00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: I didn't see that. When there's some stupid twist where

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00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: he was in fact the in on it or something

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00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: who I don't remember. I blocked it out of my memory.

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00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: That might have been spoiler. Of course you're supposed to

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00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: say spoiler beforehand. But whatever. Yeah, well, we are pretty

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00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: much done here with hostage negotiation. We're gonna leave a

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00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: whole section untouched on becoming a hostage negotiator. You can

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00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: find that in the article how hostage Negotiation Works. You

453
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: can type in hostage I imagine on the handy search

454
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: bar at how stuffworks dot com, which means it's time

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00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: for listener mail. No, no, Josh, not today, Okay, no

456
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: listener mail. We're gonna do a little Kiva update like

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00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: we are wont to do. Okay, so you want to

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00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: go ahead and give the plug? Yeah, man, we started

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00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: a Kiva team Keeva dot org k I v A.

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00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: Dot org is a micro lending website, socially responsible one

461
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: which means you don't make any interest on your loans.

462
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: You can loan as little as twenty five bucks to

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00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: people in developing countries and now the US um entrepreneurs

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00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: who are trying to become self sufficient through their businesses.

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00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: They're little, tiny loans that make a huge difference elsewhere

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00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: in the in the world. Indeed, uh, and we are

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00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: kicking bottom on this. We are man, and I'm proud

468
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: of the stuff you should know Army, because you guys

469
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: are responding and this is really really cool. We challenge

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00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: the Colbert Rapport or I like to call it the

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00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: Colbert Report, and we actually made a video where we

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00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: chastised him. Yeah, what you probably never see, but just

473
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: if you watch the Colbert Report, scoff while you watch

474
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: it thinking of Chuck and I and the stuff you

475
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: should know Army. People are responding in a big way

476
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: and it's going great. And hopefully the Colbert Report will

477
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: take notice because that will make even more money for

478
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: Kiva and it might get us on his show. Chuck

479
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: is just chomping at the bit again on the show,

480
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: so well, if you want to join the Stuff you

481
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: Should Know, keep the team, please do, please do. Um.

482
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: You can go to www dot kiva dot org slash

483
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: team slash Stuff you Should Know, and that will take

484
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: you right there. A plus, there's a pretty picture chuck

485
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: on there. Yeah, me and Emily. Actually it's a picture

486
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: of U. We have you know, she's on my team.

487
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: I was talking about our picture. Oh no, no, no.

488
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: On the member page though. If you're curious of what

489
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: my wife and I look like together, then you can

490
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: surf through the member page. And is that the one

491
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 1: that's your screensaver in your iPhone too? Yeah, it's It's

492
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: one of the best pictures I heard of us. It's

493
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: very nice. Thank you. Uh and how about the blogs?

494
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: Real quick? Yeah, we both run a blog, and I'm

495
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: gonna I've been lazy with it lately. I'm gonna get

496
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: back on off the schneid Um. You can access the

497
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: blog on the blogs page on which you can find

498
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: on the right side of the house Stuff Works dot

499
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: dot com home page. I just barely split that out,

500
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: so that's where you can find it. Yeah. Go interact, Yes,

501
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: go interact. That's a pretty cool blog. We like it

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00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: a lot. If you have an email, or if your

503
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: name is Aisha Tyler and you have never listened this

504
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: far before in a podcast, you can send us an

505
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com.

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00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is

507
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: that how stuff works dot com. Want more house stuff Works,

508
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot

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00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: com home page. M H brought to you by the

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00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve Camry. It's ready, are you