Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of Iheartradiozon Elizabeth. You know
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. Oh man, do I all right? You ever
Speaker 1: heard of wife carrying as a competitive sport? No, I've not.
Speaker 1: So it started out apparently in Finland, where it has
Speaker 1: a definitely decidedly questionable history. But wife carrying as a sport,
Speaker 1: it involves track that has to be two hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy eight yards long, exactly that number, and then it
Speaker 1: has to have two dry obstacles, one wet obstacle swarty goodness,
Speaker 1: and a husband has to carry their wife. Now, you
Speaker 1: can find these contests everywhere. They're like in Finland, Kazakhstan,
Speaker 1: anywhere you look, you know. But in America we do
Speaker 1: them proper. Okay. There's the North American wife carrying Championship
Speaker 1: you can find at the Sunday River Resort in newy Maine,
Speaker 1: like any wry newy okay, right, And they usually do
Speaker 1: it in the fall, and it involves people male female
Speaker 1: partnership when they're all leaf peeping. Yeah, so the exactly
Speaker 1: out there like oh it's gouse the leaves. You don't
Speaker 1: want to do a championship run. So yeah, they basically
Speaker 1: just imagine a husband carrying his wife like fire like
Speaker 1: fireman over the shoulders, or like maybe like bear hug
Speaker 1: like you know, upside down, where like they're all s
Speaker 1: all sorts of weird ways, but however they can like
Speaker 1: clutch each other and then they run as fast and
Speaker 1: as hard as they can over three obstacles and hell
Speaker 1: and dale, Yeah, for two hundred and seventy eight yards
Speaker 1: or whatever. And you can't drag her, No, no, you
Speaker 1: gotta its whole thing is the carrying in. That's the name. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought, ridiculous. That is very ridiculous. Do you know
Speaker 1: what else is ridiculous? No, hit me with it? Forging
Speaker 1: art while in jail for forging art? Wait, what this is? Ridiculous?
Speaker 1: Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and cons.
Speaker 1: It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred
Speaker 1: percent ridiculous. Oh you damn right. Yes, I think I've
Speaker 1: established that I like four things. Okay, I mean I
Speaker 1: like more than four things in life, but these are
Speaker 1: the main four dogs, which are the greatest living creatures
Speaker 1: on Earth. Trains, but not in like the knowing the
Speaker 1: model or history kind of way, pretending to not watch TV,
Speaker 1: especially the hit Fox TV show nine one one, and
Speaker 1: art crimes. Yes, those are four things I like. I
Speaker 1: don't have any cool dog stories today, and I haven't
Speaker 1: been on a train lately, and I'm all caught up
Speaker 1: on the stories. OA, so that leaves art crime nice.
Speaker 1: You gotta fresh you for me, I do. I really
Speaker 1: liked telling you the tale of Elmer Dahorri Elmir. Excuse me. Oh,
Speaker 1: he was fantastic. There was something so compelling about someone
Speaker 1: who had talent, someone who life had totally put behind
Speaker 1: the eight ball, and someone who was so charming and
Speaker 1: who wanted more than anything to be loved and valued. Um,
Speaker 1: and I loved hearing about his criminal escapades. Today. I
Speaker 1: have another Forger for you, right, he also has talent.
Speaker 1: He's also rather audacious and charming, but he's not as
Speaker 1: charming as Elmir of course. Um. You know how if
Speaker 1: you look at an established artists Apple Music page, say,
Speaker 1: for example, Oasis, Okay, I don't know about theirs, though,
Speaker 1: they'll have like their essentials, which is like the greatest
Speaker 1: hitch and then then sometimes they'll have deep tracks, but
Speaker 1: they also have both influences and inspired by and so
Speaker 1: by the way. The inspired by collection for the band
Speaker 1: is really good. Um. Anyway, if there wasn't inspired by
Speaker 1: Elmer Dahorri track list Wolfgang or I should say Wolfgang,
Speaker 1: I'll say Wolfgang. I'll americanize it Bell Tracky, he'd be
Speaker 1: right up there, okay. So Wolfgang Beltracky is an inspiration
Speaker 1: for almerda hard Well, he would he was inspired by Elmire.
Speaker 1: Oh I got it backwards. Why there you go? So
Speaker 1: Wolfgang Beltracky. He was born Wolfgang Fisher. Wolfgang Fisher picked
Speaker 1: up Bell Tracky along the way. Well, you'll find out
Speaker 1: in Hexta, Germany. Sure, I am gonna like you say
Speaker 1: it like I know it. I'm butchering the hawkster with
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yes, so Hexta Hexta Yeah. In nineteen fifty one.
Speaker 1: His father was an artist. He was like a muralist.
Speaker 1: He restored church frescoes. He's like the German Diego Rivera.
Speaker 1: Yes so no, so Wolfgang Wolfie. He began painting when
Speaker 1: he was ten, and when he was fourteen he painted
Speaker 1: a piece copied from Pablo Picasso. After his father had
Speaker 1: to ten to do the exact same thing. Like his
Speaker 1: dad tries copying it. This is what he said. I
Speaker 1: was fourteen and my father had given me a postcard.
Speaker 1: I was allowed to use my father's oil paints for
Speaker 1: the first time. I didn't like the original I thought
Speaker 1: it was too sad, so I changed it, omitting a
Speaker 1: piece of material and making the picture less monochromatic. The
Speaker 1: painting took an afternoon. My father didn't touch a brush
Speaker 1: again for the next two years. Oh my god, can
Speaker 1: you imagine that moment where the father like walks into
Speaker 1: the room to see what he's done, and he's just like,
Speaker 1: never mind, and it just goes into sadly puts his
Speaker 1: brushes away. They get dusty for the next two years.
Speaker 1: That's just like wow. Right. So when he was seventeen,
Speaker 1: Wolfgang was expelled from high school and he'd quit art
Speaker 1: school in Akin after four years studying there. Sure, so
Speaker 1: what do you do when you quit art school? Go
Speaker 1: to it T Tech where you can start learning to code.
Speaker 1: No no clothes, You buy yourself a Harley Davidson, and
Speaker 1: you become a nomadic hippie. Oh I like his choice. Huh.
Speaker 1: So he travels throughout Europe, smoking hash, dropping acid with
Speaker 1: US soldiers stationed at nearby NATO base on their way
Speaker 1: home from Vietnam, you know, as they would have stories.
Speaker 1: Where did he go as a nomad? Well, for a
Speaker 1: year and a half. He crashed on a Moroccan beach
Speaker 1: and he lived in the commune Choices. Oh yeah, he
Speaker 1: lived in the commune in Spain. He lived in a
Speaker 1: houseboat in Amsterdam, and he ran a psychedelic light show
Speaker 1: at the Paradiso nightclub there. I think what we have
Speaker 1: established is is that under General Lisamo Francisco Franco Fascist,
Speaker 1: Spain was a great place to do drugs. Apparently everybody
Speaker 1: doing drugs in the seventies like, I gotta hit Spain. Yeah, anyway, going,
Speaker 1: So he drifted around Barcelona, Paris, London. What did he
Speaker 1: do in all those places, Well, he bought and sold paintings.
Speaker 1: He founded antique markets, and his career as a forger
Speaker 1: was born in those markets. One day he noticed a
Speaker 1: wintry landscape painting of iced over as he saw that
Speaker 1: it sold for a lot of money. But he found
Speaker 1: that the ones with these kind of winter scenes made
Speaker 1: more if there were ice skaters in the painting. So
Speaker 1: with the Disney, He's like, are you know what you
Speaker 1: need is some ice skaters? So he bought a set
Speaker 1: of paintings for two hundred and fifty dollars each by
Speaker 1: this unknown eighteenth century Dutch painter. He then painted ice
Speaker 1: skaters into the winter landscape and he resold them for
Speaker 1: a profit because like, ice skaters are big business or
Speaker 1: something apprently, so he sitsuing. Like then he starts buying
Speaker 1: these old wooden frames and he creates winter landscape paintings
Speaker 1: with ice skaters in them, sold as works by old masters.
Speaker 1: So he like had this technique where he would put
Speaker 1: this stuff all over the painting and then scrape the
Speaker 1: old paint off and then you know, make his own thing.
Speaker 1: So by the eighties he really ramped up his forgery business.
Speaker 1: He painted in waves, as he called them, depending on
Speaker 1: whatever his needs were. Quote, sometimes I'd paint ten works
Speaker 1: in a month, and then I'd go for six months
Speaker 1: without doing any He's just yeah, he's take a little
Speaker 1: pieces of your retirement when you can get it. Exactly.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen ninety two, Wolfgang meets Helene BELTRACKI, oh,
Speaker 1: there it is progressive. So they were each living with
Speaker 1: another partner when they met. Helene was with her longtime boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Wolfgang lived with his ex girlfriend and their four year
Speaker 1: old son. Okay, he met Helene because her boss was
Speaker 1: backing a project of his using money made from his forgeries.
Speaker 1: He bought an eighty foot sailboat and he hired a
Speaker 1: five man crew all for this project. What was the project?
Speaker 1: He was gonna do some plane air paintings and this
Speaker 1: is something this would be right up your alley. He
Speaker 1: was writing and filming a documentary about pirates. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love this guy. He makes all the right choices.
Speaker 1: So he planned to sail around the world. He was
Speaker 1: going to go from Majorca to Madagascar, then to South
Speaker 1: America because he wanted to follow the career paths of
Speaker 1: all the pirates. Totally get into car. He was saying,
Speaker 1: I want to go from Sir Francis Drake to the
Speaker 1: South China season. So he's doing every he's going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's covering the whole history. So Helene, she did not
Speaker 1: find Wolfgang to be all heba hoba at first. She
Speaker 1: wasn't into it. She thought he was a big mouth
Speaker 1: as what she called him. So Wolfgang, he organized a
Speaker 1: seminar series on sixteen millimeter film production as you do.
Speaker 1: Helene attended spent some time with him, her mind gets changed.
Speaker 1: Wolfie goes from zero to hero. He is an artist. Now,
Speaker 1: this is what she said, quote, I saw that he
Speaker 1: was an absolute perfectionist, intelligent, educated, and a totally open
Speaker 1: social human being. So he just wins her over. By
Speaker 1: the end of the week, she has dumped her boyfriend
Speaker 1: and moved in with him. Wow, I like it. How's
Speaker 1: that pirate documentary going? And you know whatever? Not great? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it served as so exactly, So the film
Speaker 1: production it fell apart and the crew gets stranded in Maorca.
Speaker 1: Wolfgang gave the boat away and and pay the crew. Wow,
Speaker 1: I like it exactly, he's loose. So a couple of
Speaker 1: days after they first got together, Helene saw the paintings
Speaker 1: that he had from all these famous artists, and she's
Speaker 1: curious about him. Here's how she tells it. Quote I
Speaker 1: asked him, are these actually real? And he said they're
Speaker 1: all mine? I made him. I said, so you're an
Speaker 1: art counterfeiter and he said, exactly, that's my work, that's
Speaker 1: my metier. Obviously she's cool with it. Why is she
Speaker 1: cool with it? Who knows? So anyway, Helene and Wolfgang
Speaker 1: they get married in nineteen ninety three. Nine months later,
Speaker 1: they had a daughter named Franziska, and Wolfgang took Helene's
Speaker 1: last name, changing from Wolfgang Fisher to Wolfgang belt Truckey. Yes,
Speaker 1: it sounds cooler. It does sound cooler, and I'm imagining
Speaker 1: as an artist. He's like, listen to the Ring of back.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, completely. So Helene, she wasn't just cool with
Speaker 1: the counterfeit paintings. She's like she wanted in on that lefe.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's angry. She was all about fraud life.
Speaker 1: So she reaches out to Lempert's major auction house in Cologne.
Speaker 1: She said that she had a painting for sale by
Speaker 1: the French cubist George Vamier and quote they sent their expert.
Speaker 1: She looked for a few minutes, said it was wonderful,
Speaker 1: and then asked how much do you want for it?
Speaker 1: So the lady bought it for twenty thousand Deutsche marks. Okay,
Speaker 1: And this is what Elaine said. The first time. It
Speaker 1: was like being in a movie. It was like it
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with me. It was another person,
Speaker 1: an art dealer whom I was playing. Everybody with the movies,
Speaker 1: ye always with the movies of the movie. So she
Speaker 1: just roll places. Sorry, doesn't even ever do crime and
Speaker 1: think that they're in a play, you know, maybe pre movie.
Speaker 1: It was like a Eugeno Neal. I just felt like, well,
Speaker 1: so she's shocked at how easy this is. So she
Speaker 1: said quote normally a person would think that these experts
Speaker 1: would study the paintings and look for proof of its provenance.
Speaker 1: The authenticator asked two or three questions. She was gone
Speaker 1: in ten minutes. It was super easy. A year later,
Speaker 1: that same forged Valnier sold at auction in New York
Speaker 1: for a million dollars. Well you know there it is. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: and their money easily parted. So nineteen ninety three, Helene
Speaker 1: debuted her Fletch Time collection. Wolfgang would paint in his
Speaker 1: studio while Helene, she had a sister named Jeannette, and
Speaker 1: then another accomplice named Otto schulteke ketting house I'm destroying.
Speaker 1: I'm sure they organized the sale of the paintings. Wolfgang
Speaker 1: met Otto in a cafe. He introduced him to people
Speaker 1: as Count Otto. What a great name, of course. Wolfgang
Speaker 1: describes Otto as someone not really up on the art
Speaker 1: world and its history and such, but like a quick learner, okay,
Speaker 1: so he takes him under his wing. He learned about
Speaker 1: the forgery racket, totally on board. He's like count me in.
Speaker 1: So Helene and her sister they went to auction houses
Speaker 1: and they said that they inherited an art collection from
Speaker 1: their father, Werner Yeagers. And according to them, Yeagers had
Speaker 1: been a client of Alfred fletch Time, the famous Jewish
Speaker 1: art gallery owner who lost his gallery to the Nazis.
Speaker 1: So keep it mind that the Nazis looted more than
Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty thousand works of art there. I
Speaker 1: it was like twenty percent of the art in Europe. Yeah, ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And there are more than one hundred thousand pieces that
Speaker 1: haven't been recovered or returned to the heirs of the owners.
Speaker 1: So Wolfgang in Helene said that in order to save
Speaker 1: his works from the grubby clutches of the Nazis, flesh
Speaker 1: Time sold a bunch of the paintings to Yeager Helene's grandpa,
Speaker 1: who then hid them in the Cologne Mountains for the
Speaker 1: duration of World War Two. They had doctored photographs and
Speaker 1: forged documents to back and claim. So there were experts
Speaker 1: who also for a fee would back his staff. Experts
Speaker 1: can always be bought exactly, and the auction houses they
Speaker 1: were stoked to be able to get their hands on
Speaker 1: all these old master works believed to time. So much
Speaker 1: like Elmer Dhri, Wolfgang didn't copy existing works. He painted
Speaker 1: quote in the style of designer impostor. It's harder to
Speaker 1: question right well, and then the way he came up
Speaker 1: with it is so genius. So the piece as he
Speaker 1: created were then said to be works that had been
Speaker 1: lost in the shuffle somewhere, whether missing pieces or one's
Speaker 1: not known about until then. He created titles and different
Speaker 1: motivation stories behind the creation of the piece in question.
Speaker 1: This is what he said. Quote. Every philharmonic orchestra merely
Speaker 1: interprets the composer. My goal was to create new music
Speaker 1: by that composer. In doing so, I wanted to find
Speaker 1: the painter's creative center and become familiar with it, so
Speaker 1: that I could see through his eyes how his paintings
Speaker 1: came about, and of course see the new picture I
Speaker 1: was painting through his eyes before I even painted it.
Speaker 1: I wonder how that worked, you know, I mean, if
Speaker 1: you're really good as an artist, and because I can
Speaker 1: only speak as like a film student. Or it's like
Speaker 1: you can eventually art to see how an editor would work,
Speaker 1: how they would cut this, or how a composer would
Speaker 1: score this, or I would director would want to move
Speaker 1: on this and follow that. You get that sense. But
Speaker 1: as an artist, it's such a two dimensional thing I'd
Speaker 1: be willing to about. Not that it's easier, but I
Speaker 1: bet they could do that really well in that vision
Speaker 1: like a crazy feeling, you know, like as a writer,
Speaker 1: when I'm writing in the voice of a character created,
Speaker 1: like you get into it and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're that person. Yeah, it's just flowing through you. You You
Speaker 1: don't having to thank or you're in the what of
Speaker 1: the flow state. But to have that two dimensional quality
Speaker 1: imagines being able to put on lenses like imaginary lenses,
Speaker 1: and also you can see the world like Picasso right
Speaker 1: and exactly so, like he would study the catalogs of
Speaker 1: existing works for artists, and he'd research their schools of practice.
Speaker 1: But then what he did that was so smart is
Speaker 1: that he looked at what was registered as having gone
Speaker 1: missing during World War two. Brilliant and because of that,
Speaker 1: there usually weren't reference images for the paintings just like
Speaker 1: vague descriptions. So he's like, all right, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I wonder if he's also pulling through their notes, you know,
Speaker 1: like going into their diaries and trying to find them
Speaker 1: talking about a thing. Oh, he did tons and tons
Speaker 1: of research on it, and when he found a piece
Speaker 1: of missing, missing piece of work, he would start painting
Speaker 1: it based on whatever written narrative there was for it,
Speaker 1: with knowledge of the artists uber So he's like any
Speaker 1: descriptions that other people had at the time writing about it.
Speaker 1: So he's just filling in the gaps, and he was good.
Speaker 1: The paintings were selling, the prices are going up and up.
Speaker 1: Here's what Wolfgang had to say about a max Ernst
Speaker 1: painting that he did. Quote his widow, Dorothea Tanning, and
Speaker 1: artist in her own right, said that one of my
Speaker 1: forgeries was the most beautiful Max Ernst painting she had
Speaker 1: ever seen. The trick is to paint a picture that
Speaker 1: doesn't exist and yet that fits perfectly into an artist's
Speaker 1: body of work. So exactly like Elmer. When we get
Speaker 1: back from this break, I'll tell you other ways. Wolfgang's
Speaker 1: criminal enterprise was pretty much like Elmer's. We're back, hey, Hey, o,
Speaker 1: Wolfgang Beltrackey. Yeah, he's making fake pieces by famous artists.
Speaker 1: He's using the Nazi theft of art from German Jews
Speaker 1: and others to make cover for himself. There were a
Speaker 1: lot of people who were duped by him, auction houses
Speaker 1: like Christie's and lem Parents. Art scholar Verner Spice. You're
Speaker 1: familiar with it. Oh, of course, I used to get
Speaker 1: the newsletter Experience Speaks were your favorite experienced art collectors
Speaker 1: Reinhold Erth and Danielle Philipacchi the verse. Haven't called me
Speaker 1: since that, you know, the incident, but you know, I
Speaker 1: think that we could reconnect. I know, maybe therapy would
Speaker 1: be good, sit down talk therapy. Yeah. Um, actor Steve Martin,
Speaker 1: Banjoe Buddy Banjo Boys, Steve Martin. So, because it was
Speaker 1: nearly impossible to trace these pieces, experts, mediators, purchasers, they
Speaker 1: all got suspicious after a while. Remember Wolfgang and Helene.
Speaker 1: They said that the pieces came from Helene's actual grandfather,
Speaker 1: who was a wealthy industrialist, Werner Yeagers. So they said
Speaker 1: that Yeagers had been friends with Alfred Flechteim in the
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, and as we know, he's this German Jewish
Speaker 1: art dealer. They said that Yeagers bought the paintings from
Speaker 1: Flesh Time in order to save them from the Nazis.
Speaker 1: The story, though, had holes. So in the nineteen thirties,
Speaker 1: here's the big problem, Yeagers was actually a member of
Speaker 1: the Nazi party. Well there is that he's not saving
Speaker 1: it from himself. Yeah, he trying to pull the hole,
Speaker 1: like I got pulled in, but I was trying to
Speaker 1: say he's dead. And he also had no interest in
Speaker 1: art in his life. It was completely doubtful that he
Speaker 1: even knew flextime. Okay, So when people tried to call
Speaker 1: him out on this, Volfgang and Helene, they pulled out
Speaker 1: all these old photographs what they said were from the
Speaker 1: twenties of Helene's grandmother, Josephine Yeagers, with the paintings in
Speaker 1: question hanging on a wall in the background. They're like, look,
Speaker 1: we'll come to find out these photos are fake. So
Speaker 1: Helene would dress in period clothing and pose as her grandmother.
Speaker 1: Love it. Wolfgang used an old camera and like pre
Speaker 1: war developing paper to take these pictures. This is what
Speaker 1: he said. Quote. We were asked if perhaps there were
Speaker 1: some family photos in which the paintings could be seen. Well,
Speaker 1: of course there were. I got myself an old camera
Speaker 1: on one of those big cardboard things from the nineteen twenties,
Speaker 1: as well as old film roles in larger's trays, whatever
Speaker 1: I could find at the flea market. So he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can get you some pictures. They created fake labels
Speaker 1: that stated that the paintings were from sam Lung flex Time,
Speaker 1: the flex Time collection. So with the success of this collection,
Speaker 1: the sisters did it again later with a second large
Speaker 1: art collection, the Knops collection, and that was also collections.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but they had to like have oh why
Speaker 1: we got this? So in this story, Knops was the
Speaker 1: grandfather of Auto, the other four germ count Auto. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: So Count Otto has this grand father, Knops, who also
Speaker 1: just dies ilected. His name is Count eight, you know.
Speaker 1: So Otto inherited the art collection upon his grandfather's death. Well,
Speaker 1: where here we are, you know, more paintings. So the
Speaker 1: Beltrackeys made a lot of money from these forgeries, and
Speaker 1: they spent a lot of money. They spent seven million
Speaker 1: euros on this enormous villa in Freiburg, which is a
Speaker 1: town in southern Germany. If you're going to do it
Speaker 1: a villa, right, Well, it took nineteen months to restore
Speaker 1: this villa after they bought it. And while they were
Speaker 1: having the restoration, they stayed in the penthouse suite of
Speaker 1: the Columbia Hotel for seven hundred euros a night. They're
Speaker 1: just ragging it up and their neighbors are like blown
Speaker 1: away by these spending habits. They traveled, They went on
Speaker 1: these shopping sprees. When the renovations on the villa were done,
Speaker 1: they invited a hundred people to their housewarming party. And
Speaker 1: then you know, it wouldn't be a proper villa warming
Speaker 1: party without a four member flamenco band flown in from
Speaker 1: Granada to sing and dance for the guests. It's only problem.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, I mean, come on doing this
Speaker 1: or do what? Are we animals? M So they're living large.
Speaker 1: But as is obvious from the fact that I'm telling
Speaker 1: you about them, it didn't last. Oh I was worried
Speaker 1: about this because you're telling me about them. It was
Speaker 1: something small that took them down. Though. It was those
Speaker 1: fake labels that would be their undoing. Oh. Interesting, Well,
Speaker 1: experts were suspicious of their authenticity and considering the fact
Speaker 1: that they'd never seen labels such as these on any
Speaker 1: other artworks prior. Oh yeah, that's and well they didn't
Speaker 1: like copy a label, they made a new right, and
Speaker 1: so the labels didn't compare in quality to Fletch Times labels. UM.
Speaker 1: And they also, like those labels, had a custom stamp
Speaker 1: that was very recognizable. It would have been worth it
Speaker 1: to them to buy an actual flex Time just to
Speaker 1: get the stamp and then be able to exactly for
Speaker 1: the amount of money that they're taken in. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: they're buying villas, you know, buy a flex Time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well there was on their label. There's like a weird
Speaker 1: caricature of flex Time at Wolfgang Drew. And so in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, um Ralph Jens, who was an expert, UM,
Speaker 1: he did something no one had done before. He questioned
Speaker 1: the labels. This is what he said, quote Fletch Time
Speaker 1: was a connoisseur, a collector, a man of taste. There
Speaker 1: is no way he would have permitted such a silly portrait.
Speaker 1: So it was just the caricature, Like this guy was serious.
Speaker 1: Why did he have like a good girl. That's like
Speaker 1: an observation. You're with your boy doctor doctor Bendor would
Speaker 1: know yes, oh my god, Bendor, and I don't remember
Speaker 1: his last Yeah, he's like an English art story expert. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god, he's the best. But he has just
Speaker 1: the best lines for his reasoning. Oh yeah, he would
Speaker 1: definitely do that with I don't believe it totally. So
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, Wolfgang in Helene sold a
Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen painting supposedly by Heinrich Compendonk called Red Picture
Speaker 1: with Horses to a Maltese company, Tristeco, and Tristec commissioned
Speaker 1: to art historians to inspect the work. They're like, why
Speaker 1: are there ice skaters in this picture? So they confirmed
Speaker 1: that some of the paint that was used didn't exist
Speaker 1: in nineteen Oh yeah, that's always a year it was
Speaker 1: supposedly made. Wolfgang had purchased a tube of paint in
Speaker 1: the Netherlands that contained titanium white and made mostly of
Speaker 1: titanium dioxide. It was still in development when they were,
Speaker 1: you know, saying that this painting was created. So Wolfgang
Speaker 1: he blamed his desire for convenience on this slip up quote.
Speaker 1: I had always used a zinc white, which was completely normal.
Speaker 1: In Kampendoc's day. Yeah. Usually I mixed the paints myself,
Speaker 1: but I was missing some pigments, so I took a
Speaker 1: zinc white from a tube, a Dutch product, but unfortunately
Speaker 1: it didn't say that it contained a small amount of
Speaker 1: titanium white. In other words, the whole thing was discovered
Speaker 1: because of an incorrectly labeled tube. He's very facility. He
Speaker 1: just got lazy. I think you can point that finger
Speaker 1: right back this way. So in twenty ten, the buyer
Speaker 1: painting filed a complaint with the District Court in Cologne
Speaker 1: in order to be reimbursed for the purchase price two
Speaker 1: point nine million euros. Yeah to hell, have a rebate, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a little chargeback on the card. Berlin State Criminal Police
Speaker 1: got word of the forgeries, they launched an investigation. Forensics
Speaker 1: discovered that the labels were made with a modern paper
Speaker 1: to look old, and the glue was also modern. Zaren Yes,
Speaker 1: close you, Oh yeah, I want you to picture it closed.
Speaker 1: It's August twenty seven, twenty ten. You own Cologne, Germany's
Speaker 1: hottest restaurant, Zarin House. It's terribly posh. It's super small,
Speaker 1: known for our sculptures of salad. Zaren House. You recommend
Speaker 1: the crudo, or maybe the roasted duck with wild spice,
Speaker 1: strudel and beetroot. It's very good this time of yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: You and the staff that you all wear patent leather jumpsuits.
Speaker 1: By the way, we all like to look very good.
Speaker 1: And when we are seven fo it's your idea, No,
Speaker 1: it was their idea. So your greeting guests, as they
Speaker 1: approach the hostess to claim their reservations, incomes the Beltrackey family.
Speaker 1: The goods. They're regulars, like, hey, guys, they spend well,
Speaker 1: they eat well. They're two teenage kids. Manuel and Franziska
Speaker 1: are particularly adventurous eaters you've noted, so they enjoy this
Speaker 1: wonderful meal and all the exquisite wines that you've recommended.
Speaker 1: They get up to leave and you walk with them.
Speaker 1: You're chatting about the weather and the plants that they
Speaker 1: have for this fall. You hold the door to the
Speaker 1: restaurant open for them as they file out. Just then
Speaker 1: you hear approaching sirens and the screeching of wheels. Five policemans,
Speaker 1: lights and sirens ablaze, come careening up to the curb.
Speaker 1: Police jump out, armed with automatic weapons and police dogs.
Speaker 1: The police order Wolfgang in Helene into a policeman. You
Speaker 1: stand by a gog. Wolfgang tosses his car keys to Francesca.
Speaker 1: The teens look at you, but you've already headed back inside.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to go back because this is too much funny.
Speaker 1: You don't need the trouble. Basically, so the kids look
Speaker 1: at each other, they shrug, and they make their way
Speaker 1: home alone in the family car. This is what Franziska said.
Speaker 1: This is what the daughter said. We went back to
Speaker 1: the house and called a lawyer. I had no idea
Speaker 1: what this was about until I saw the news on
Speaker 1: television and read it in the newspapers. Blissfully ignorant of this. Sorry,
Speaker 1: the television, I don't know. So Wolfgang in Helene. They
Speaker 1: were in custody for fourteen months between the time of
Speaker 1: their arrest and their trial in October of twenty eleven.
Speaker 1: In jail, Wolfgang painted portraits of fellow inmates, and he
Speaker 1: and Helene wrote to each other what they say were
Speaker 1: seven thousand to eight thousand pages in total, constant letter writing.
Speaker 1: And it was during this time that Helene was diagnosed
Speaker 1: with breast cancer. So they're just going through all this
Speaker 1: stuff In September of twenty eleven, the group went on
Speaker 1: trial in Cologne, Germany. Wolfgang in Helene, Helene's sister Jeanette,
Speaker 1: and Otto count Otto about my man count eight. There
Speaker 1: were fourteen works of art that were confirmed as forgeries, okay,
Speaker 1: and those had earned them twenty one million dollars hot damn.
Speaker 1: And there were another thirty three pieces that were supposedly
Speaker 1: by all these other artists that Camp and Docmax Earnst
Speaker 1: they're under investigation as well. Wolfgang loves an audience, so
Speaker 1: when he was called to the stand, he gave more
Speaker 1: of a soliloquy than a confession, because they've cut this deal.
Speaker 1: If you confess, then will reduce the sentence. So he
Speaker 1: regaled them with stories of his wild youth, and he
Speaker 1: went on. He went after the arrogance and greed of
Speaker 1: the art world. He also said the whole thing was
Speaker 1: quote great fun exactly. And then he did this post
Speaker 1: trial interview with Vanity fair as you do. He said
Speaker 1: he was thrilled to share how he was able to
Speaker 1: like dash off these paintings that he would later sell
Speaker 1: for millions. Quote, I did in three or four hours,
Speaker 1: sometimes even faster. So he's just whipping these that's amazing,
Speaker 1: and it really kind of it's not an insult to
Speaker 1: the great masters, but it kind of puts into perspective
Speaker 1: how long some of their stuff might have taken, you know. Well,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting because it's like they put all of
Speaker 1: this thought and development into it and then he just
Speaker 1: kind of swoops in after and it's like the table's
Speaker 1: already been set. Yeah, you know, he's just going to
Speaker 1: tinker around a little bit. It's just basically an artistic
Speaker 1: fax machine at that point. Pretty much. Now, when we
Speaker 1: get back from this break, I'm going to tell you
Speaker 1: how Wolfgang's inflated ego worked out for him in terms
Speaker 1: of sentencing. Oh, Zaren Elizabeth, Welcome to my crime flop house. Dude.
Speaker 1: I'm really liking this ever since you left the crime
Speaker 1: Dojo and you got this new crime floppers I mean,
Speaker 1: everything's well, it's a lot dirtier. I gotta say, well, there,
Speaker 1: you're going to get scabies from sitting on that, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure already have that. But I like you
Speaker 1: apparently a lot more time to yourself now that you're
Speaker 1: not cleaning all the time exactly. That's nice. I have
Speaker 1: a busy on the go lifes. So October twenty eleven
Speaker 1: there was a forty day trial Wolfgang Beltrockey. He gets
Speaker 1: sentenced to six years, Helene gets sentenced to four. Both
Speaker 1: of these sentences were in open prisons. What does that mean.
Speaker 1: It meant that they went to work outside during the
Speaker 1: day and then check back in each night. So that's
Speaker 1: like beyond work furlough because they just did their thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they're basically they just have to sleep in a prison. Yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: it's like a hotel. They just have a really crappy hotel.
Speaker 1: That was their prison sentence. So they would like meet
Speaker 1: up at the studio in the morning, hang out work
Speaker 1: until it was time to get in separate cars, and
Speaker 1: then make their way back to prison. They would literally
Speaker 1: drive next to each other on the freeway and then
Speaker 1: one would have to get off in an exit and
Speaker 1: they'd wave to each other. Are you kidding me? I'm
Speaker 1: not kidding you. Wow, Europeans approach to prison, I mean
Speaker 1: I wish we had this type of approach to prison
Speaker 1: for the non violent effects the world. Well, this is
Speaker 1: what the judge said. Quote to clear up any confusion,
Speaker 1: Mister Beltrocky has agreed to take back all his forgeries
Speaker 1: and return them to their owners, signed this time with
Speaker 1: his own name. Some slacks the right name on these things,
Speaker 1: so Wolfgang, Um, he agreed to paint only in his
Speaker 1: own name moving forward. No, wait with Steve, you said
Speaker 1: Steve Martin was one of his victims. Yeah, did he
Speaker 1: come forward in this like, I don't know. I was
Speaker 1: wondering if he was like angry about it, because he
Speaker 1: seems a little prickly sometimes. Yeah, I know it doesn't he? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: God bless him. Um, So he said I can They
Speaker 1: told him you can only paint in your own name
Speaker 1: going forward, because it goes back to remember with elmir
Speaker 1: it was like, did you actually signed it? That's whole
Speaker 1: thing about a forgery is if you if you don't
Speaker 1: sign it to deceive exactly. So it's the signature that
Speaker 1: makes the forgery. Um. And then he also had to
Speaker 1: move from Germany to France. They just like kicked him
Speaker 1: out of Germany. You're out of here, buddy, I mean,
Speaker 1: I bet you ran this by like this law about
Speaker 1: copyright law and having to put your name on a painting.
Speaker 1: If you ran that by a sovereign citizen, they probably
Speaker 1: lose their mind because it's all about the law and
Speaker 1: the name. Like, this is what happened? Man? Did they
Speaker 1: take your name and that's your identity? You're like, oh, brother,
Speaker 1: this is great. Keep going. Oh my god, I love
Speaker 1: sovereigns like in the abstract. Sorry, so Bell Tracky right
Speaker 1: he um, oh, I forgot to tell you otto he
Speaker 1: got five years and Jeanette got a twenty one month
Speaker 1: suspended sentence. Oh so she doesn't even have to sleep
Speaker 1: in prison. No, she just has to wear like a
Speaker 1: cool bracelet. Um. So after he got out of prison,
Speaker 1: Bell Tracky admitted in all these interviews that he actually
Speaker 1: forged maybe fifty different artists. He's like, there were a
Speaker 1: lot more, Buddy. I like how he just keeps wanting
Speaker 1: to flex something. But totally. He also just took me
Speaker 1: at ten minutes they had in ballpark. How many did
Speaker 1: you sell? He's like, I don't know, thousand, two thousands
Speaker 1: could be, but he wouldn't disclose the exact number or
Speaker 1: like the locations of This is what he said in
Speaker 1: an interview. He said, wouldn't it be the height of
Speaker 1: vanity if I were to tell you now where the
Speaker 1: paintings could still be hanging. So I mean there's some
Speaker 1: still out there. Oh you know that in the Houston Museum. Three.
Speaker 1: The magazine says, this isn't exactly what one imagines as
Speaker 1: a full confession, Wolfgang, Wait a minute, I made a
Speaker 1: confession about the paintings that were the subject of the trial.
Speaker 1: Aside from that, if the police had asked me at
Speaker 1: the time, I would have told them where the paintings were,
Speaker 1: at least as far as I knew. That's on the cops. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they missed the boat on that had me on the stand.
Speaker 1: So it was pretty much acknowledged that the galleries, the
Speaker 1: auction houses, they all turned a blind eye to pretty
Speaker 1: obvious clues. We keep hearing this, Oh well there. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just fake labels. They were misspelled names and like
Speaker 1: frames that didn't match the pictures that were supposed to
Speaker 1: be made out of the same wood. The money was
Speaker 1: too good though for everyone involved. Well, I was just
Speaker 1: like a target print you get for a dorm room.
Speaker 1: They've been painted over. It was like one of those
Speaker 1: kids in the big hats, like holding a rose. So
Speaker 1: they could increase the value though tenfold, between buying from
Speaker 1: Helene and then selling it at auctions, so of course
Speaker 1: they're not going to pass it up. That's what I
Speaker 1: keep saying. This is what journalist Henrik van Spresshart said,
Speaker 1: a little more detective work at the right time could
Speaker 1: have exposed the so called yagers and knops collections. But
Speaker 1: something in the art market seems to resist, almost hysterically,
Speaker 1: any discussion or disclosure ranks. They're like, how do you
Speaker 1: think we move all this money? Come on now, so
Speaker 1: Wolfgang he accused the galleries and the art houses of
Speaker 1: being consumed with quote greed and depravity in their mission
Speaker 1: to acquire these high dollar pieces. Per der Spiegel, German
Speaker 1: news magazine, quote doubts are bad for business. A dealer
Speaker 1: who buys a painting for one hundred thousand euros but
Speaker 1: knows that he can sell it for two hundred thousand
Speaker 1: or three hundred thousand euros post doesn't want to ask
Speaker 1: too many questions about its origin. So you got from
Speaker 1: every angle everyone's pointing out like this is all big racket.
Speaker 1: We all know. As long as everyone gets their beak wet,
Speaker 1: no one cares, right, But you know, there were those
Speaker 1: who paid high non monetary costs thanks to the fraud
Speaker 1: reputations were damaged. Oh so art scholar Andrea Ferminich of
Speaker 1: bon She was called to examine a supposed compendanc piece.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, it should be stated that Compendonk produced over
Speaker 1: twelve hundred works. Damn well, factory Compendonk. Yeah, there are
Speaker 1: so it's like really easy to say, like this could
Speaker 1: have been lost in the shuffle. But there were also
Speaker 1: two other experts who were called in to look at
Speaker 1: the same piece. This is what she said, quote no
Speaker 1: expert is immune from mistakes. The damage to my person
Speaker 1: is so big that I'm not able to say anything
Speaker 1: quote official. The damage for the experts of art is
Speaker 1: so enormous, and the public understanding of BELTROCKI as a
Speaker 1: hero so absurd that I hope you can understand my opinion.
Speaker 1: Another one, your buddy Werner Spice. He was another casualty
Speaker 1: of it. He was referred to as one of the
Speaker 1: most influential art historians of the twentieth century. Sky was huge.
Speaker 1: He was a friend to both Max Ernst and Pablo Picasso,
Speaker 1: and he was an expert on both of their catalogs
Speaker 1: of work. So Wolfgang comes along, DUP's Spice gets him
Speaker 1: to issue certificates of authenticity for five works that were
Speaker 1: supposedly by Ernst. One of the certificates was for the
Speaker 1: fake Lafouette Deum Spice put controversial Swiss art dealer Eve's Bouvier.
Speaker 1: I mean, we all know about his kind in contact
Speaker 1: with Helene and so they sold the piece to a
Speaker 1: private company for two point three million dollars and the
Speaker 1: painting was then sold to New York publisher Daniel Philippacci
Speaker 1: for seven million. Wow. Yeah. In two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: Spice authentic hated an alleged Max Ernst painting tromblemndetail, and
Speaker 1: the painting was sold to a collector for more than
Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty thousand euros. And then in May
Speaker 1: of twenty thirteen, Spice was convicted in order to payback
Speaker 1: that collector. Huh so. The decision, though, was overturned by
Speaker 1: the Court of Appeal of Versailles. They stated that Spies
Speaker 1: had quote expressed an opinion outside of the determined transaction unquote,
Speaker 1: and could not therefore be quote charged with a responsibility
Speaker 1: equivalent to that of an expert consulted in the context
Speaker 1: of a sale. Quite understands that basically saying, in his
Speaker 1: professional capacity he was he wasn't doing as part of
Speaker 1: the actual sale itself. So the court said that a
Speaker 1: quote cannot be required of the author of a catalog
Speaker 1: Reisen to subject each work in a catalog published under
Speaker 1: his responsibility to the execution of a scientific expert assessment,
Speaker 1: which requires the removal of fragments of the work and
Speaker 1: represents a significant cost. Okay, so they're basically saying he
Speaker 1: did go up to this this criteria, and no one
Speaker 1: expected them because he didn't say that. He didn't say
Speaker 1: I analyzed it right. And while he may have created
Speaker 1: this catalog reison, they for Ernst, Yeah, he just based
Speaker 1: on looking at it. How could he have known you'd
Speaker 1: actually have to like, that's how good. It's more of
Speaker 1: a curatorial catalog exactly. So Spicy ended up facing a
Speaker 1: civil lawsuit for certifying seven Max Ernst paintings. It turned
Speaker 1: out to be faked. So rich people are suing him.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it totally tarnished this reputation that he
Speaker 1: had built over more than half a century. In twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: Wolfgang in Helene, they collected those letters that they'd sent
Speaker 1: each other and had them published into a book. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: So they did like a whole letters between Henry Miller
Speaker 1: and Annias and Inn and they also wrote an autobiography. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're a little duly because of course I got to
Speaker 1: write a book. It's what you do in prison, Elizabeth,
Speaker 1: you write books. But how look how fun it was
Speaker 1: until you got to like the people whose careers they Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. This is the one thing is like, you know,
Speaker 1: meach as long as people aren't getting hurt by a crime.
Speaker 1: I don't crime, but people are getting hurt by this
Speaker 1: crime was like Sokom when these like rich people fall
Speaker 1: for it. But then yeah, at least yeah, well the exam.
Speaker 1: I don't mind separating a fool from their money if
Speaker 1: it doesn't actually hurt the fool, right, true, I will,
Speaker 1: I will say that every time. So a documentary about
Speaker 1: the couple was made in twenty fourteen called Beltracky The
Speaker 1: Art of Forgery. It got a German Film Award for
Speaker 1: Best Documentary. It was by Arnip Birkenstock. No, his father
Speaker 1: Ryanhart Birkenstock, founder of the shoe company. No, it was
Speaker 1: legal counsel for the Beltracky's. Wait a minute, so their
Speaker 1: lawyer's kid made a documentary and they were all wearing Burkey.
Speaker 1: It's not an easy documentary to track down, but thanks
Speaker 1: to my library card, and if you don't have one,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's wrong with you. I was able
Speaker 1: to watch it through Canopy, which is a nap or
Speaker 1: canopy dot com. So in it, Wolfgang waxes about the
Speaker 1: Fauvis and how they went to the south of France
Speaker 1: and they painted things that no one had ever painted before,
Speaker 1: in a way that no one had painted, capturing light
Speaker 1: and the way people hadn't seen it. And so he
Speaker 1: talks about how much he would have loved to be there,
Speaker 1: as if it's only time that prevents him from doing
Speaker 1: something wholly new. You know, he's like, God, if I
Speaker 1: were there, I could have been one of these guys,
Speaker 1: like seeing these modern takes on everything. Oh well, I
Speaker 1: can't go back in time, ally, buddy, look around right,
Speaker 1: how about you try it now? Hit a brand new
Speaker 1: moment right now, here's rom dos. He'll explain it to you.
Speaker 1: So he's really boastful about his skills. He said, quote,
Speaker 1: there's nothing I couldn't paint. I could paint anything. And
Speaker 1: then when he's asked about all the various old masters
Speaker 1: and like classical artists, that he could replicate. He affirms
Speaker 1: each one listed to him, even quote, I could paint
Speaker 1: a new Leonardo. He calls him like simple, like oh Leonardo.
Speaker 1: So I like that after he took down his father
Speaker 1: as an artist, no artist was said anybody I'll take
Speaker 1: down You will take down your father. Well, the craziest
Speaker 1: part about the documentary is that the crew follows both
Speaker 1: Wolfgang and Helene as they spend the day in the
Speaker 1: studio and then buzz off back to jail in the evening.
Speaker 1: That's how I got to see them driving next to
Speaker 1: each other. You actually got to see them do it. Yes,
Speaker 1: Why does he do in the studio all day? Pretty
Speaker 1: much what he was always doing. So he gets these old,
Speaker 1: mediocre paintings, he strips them down to the canvas, paints
Speaker 1: a forgery, ages it artificially, like there's one he gets
Speaker 1: this canvas from Barcelona, and he's like shoving lint and
Speaker 1: dust and dirt behind the canvas stretcher so that if
Speaker 1: someone were to look down. He recreates taking those phony
Speaker 1: pictures from the twenties down to even creating a makeshift
Speaker 1: parlor for his wife to sit in, posing in front
Speaker 1: of the fakes. So I suppose he's doing that for
Speaker 1: the film crew, but it's like, this is what you're
Speaker 1: out of jail doing, like faking it up. So anyway,
Speaker 1: he goes to this dinner party and one of his
Speaker 1: friends said that he heard a rumor that Wolfgang had
Speaker 1: invested in quote ocular prosthetics in the United States. Ocular prosthetics.
Speaker 1: It's a little too close to Baron Bruno right right
Speaker 1: on other ocular prosthetic is a glass of one of
Speaker 1: our old episodes. A little too close for comfort, I say. So.
Speaker 1: He paints portraits of other inmates when he's in jail,
Speaker 1: and they all seem to want him to learn to tattoo,
Speaker 1: and he declined. One of the when he's declining, there's
Speaker 1: a really uncomfortable moment when Wolfgang talks about how if
Speaker 1: he tattooed the guys that art collectors would want to
Speaker 1: take their skin when they die, worse than the banks.
Speaker 1: We would take this wall. Wait, the dude that he's
Speaker 1: painting says, I'd make it into a lampshade. Oh, now,
Speaker 1: if you're German, you may want to be careful about
Speaker 1: that kind of ref more than may. So it's so uncomfortable. Anyway,
Speaker 1: what's Wolfgang doing Now, um, let's see he is in
Speaker 1: crypto coin. You're so close? Oh really? Well he does
Speaker 1: speaking engagement and then he creates work under his own
Speaker 1: name NFTs. Ah, I should have gone one step over
Speaker 1: on the scams. I know. In twenty twenty one, he
Speaker 1: released a series of NFTs called The Greats, and he
Speaker 1: reimagined Leonardo da Vinci's Salvador Mundi in the style of
Speaker 1: other artists like Vincent van Gogh and Andy Warhol. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: So he does like a master work and then has
Speaker 1: all the other master painters do this master work their way. Well,
Speaker 1: there's a promotional like an MTV kind of thing, kind
Speaker 1: of Yeah, there's a promotional video for it that says, quote,
Speaker 1: armed with over sixty years of experience, he is the
Speaker 1: only person who has the crucial knowledge and skills to
Speaker 1: pull this off. The armed. Yeah, he's armed and dangerous.
Speaker 1: They add that the NFTs will see him quote become
Speaker 1: part of history himself. Yeah. You love these hype things,
Speaker 1: Like the people get paid to write these things. I
Speaker 1: just like I want to pat them on the back.
Speaker 1: Look at you, you you can paid nonsense. Now here's my takeaway. Sure,
Speaker 1: I like to cheer on the forgers, but I feel
Speaker 1: bad for the authentic. Yeah. And also, our researcher Andrea
Speaker 1: sent me a great Pablo Picasso quote. If the counterfeit
Speaker 1: were a good one, I should be delighted. I'd sit
Speaker 1: down straight away and sign it. Oh yes, I've heard yeah,
Speaker 1: which it makes me wonder what the artists themselves would
Speaker 1: make of all this. I think Picasso, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I'll take that joint. Zarin, what's your ridiculous takeaway?
Speaker 1: It's wild because like we've we've covered some of this,
Speaker 1: which is that you have like a painter like Picasso
Speaker 1: who is literally stealing his imagery from other works of
Speaker 1: art and other people just don't know about, which isn't
Speaker 1: counterfeit because that's the whole inspiration aspect. So the fact
Speaker 1: that these other painters, like it's not that he's like lazy,
Speaker 1: because he's doing all kinds of work well, and it's
Speaker 1: like every kind of style. It's not even like oh
Speaker 1: I only do modernists or I only you know, he's
Speaker 1: all over the place. But there's like one switch that
Speaker 1: just gets kicked over in the wrong direction and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden he just does all of this
Speaker 1: stuff as opposed to like taking all this abundant talent,
Speaker 1: and as we talked about looking around the world and
Speaker 1: finding something, you know, commenting on that visually with his
Speaker 1: own visual language. He's right there and he's like, Nah,
Speaker 1: I'd rather be a jukebox machine of art and I'll
Speaker 1: just play this hint, I'll playing that hitt, and I'll
Speaker 1: just keep putting my own buttons. Well. And we've talked
Speaker 1: about this before, the difference between like artists and artisan
Speaker 1: basically like are you a draftsman or are you an artist?
Speaker 1: So that's it. That's all I have. Volve's gang. I
Speaker 1: did like that he took his wife's name. That is
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Cool, Yeah, good for him. That's all I
Speaker 1: have for today. You can find us online at Ridiculous Crime,
Speaker 1: on both Twitter and Instagram. Email us if you'd like
Speaker 1: at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com, download the iHeart
Speaker 1: app and leave us at talk back I double Dare
Speaker 1: you tune in next time? Ridiculous Crime is hosted by
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Dutton and Zarin Burnett, produced and edited by Authenticator
Speaker 1: of Authenticators Dave Kusten. Research is by Angry art collector
Speaker 1: Marissa Brown and Suspicious auctioneer Andrea song sharpened here. The
Speaker 1: theme song is by Thomas I Have Photographic Proof Lee
Speaker 1: and Travis urnst you glad I didn't paint it Dutton.
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Christie's auction House Experts put on administrative
Speaker 1: leave and Definitely and Bollen and Noll Brown. We decreas
Speaker 1: QUI so you one more time. We dequeus Crow. Ridiculous
Speaker 1: Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts to
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