1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Quantum mechanics just doesn't seem to make sense. It tells 2 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: us that the universe is fundamentally random, that some questions 3 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: just don't have answers, that there's a limit to what 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: can be known about reality, and that things change when 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: we look at them. More than that, it tells us 6 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: that reality is fundamentally different from what we have imagined. 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: But what if that's not true? What if that's wrong? 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: What if it were possible to build a theory of 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics that doesn't describe the universe as bizarrely random, 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: that doesn't have any special role for observers, that doesn't 11 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: suffer from the famous measurement problem, and that lets us 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: think of the microscopic world as very similar to our 13 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: familiar intuitive world. And what if this theory actually worked 14 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: and was able to describe I've been predict experiments. That is, 15 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: what if there's an intuitive alternative to mainstream quantum mechanics. 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: If there were, why on Earth wouldn't it be embraced? Hi, 17 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor of 18 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: physics that you see, Irvine, and I want to believe 19 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: that the world makes sense. We are all drawn to 20 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: basic questions about the nature of the universe. How does 21 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: it work, why is it this way and not some 22 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: other way? How did it all begin? And how will 23 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: it all end? Physics is supposed to be a way 24 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: to get answers to those questions, and so welcome to 25 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: the podcast Daniel and Jorge explained the Universe and production 26 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio, where this is precisely the kind 27 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: of question we ask and the kind of answer we 28 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: reach for. And the amazing thing is that physics kind 29 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: of seems to work. It offers explanations, explanations that not 30 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: only work because they could predict what happens in experiments, 31 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: but explanations that usually make some kind of sense. The 32 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: stories they tell us are mathematical and could be very 33 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: different from the stories we guessed at. It turns out 34 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: the Earth is billions of years old and not thousands, 35 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: that stars are massive balls of fusion in the sky 36 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: rather than tiny pin pricks in the screen. But in 37 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: the end, these mathematical stories that physics tells us about 38 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: the universe, they are coherent, they are sensible. We can 39 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: use them to understand how the universe really is. Except 40 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: in one area, quantum mechanics. While we do have a 41 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: working theory, we struggle to make sense of it. What 42 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: does it really mean? What is it telling us about 43 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: how the world really is? And while we have lots 44 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: of different interpretations, we struggle to accept the story that 45 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: they tell us. Is the universe really random? Is everything 46 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: really described by the wave function? Does it collapse when 47 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: you observe it? Or split into millions of meta universes? 48 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: Or do objects not really have any properties on their 49 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: own to observe or all properties relative to the observer. 50 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: None of these are easy to absorb, to click into 51 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: our minds and let you say, oh, yeah, I get it, 52 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: that's how the universe is. But what if there was 53 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: a version of quantum mechanics that was more intuitive, that 54 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: was deterministic, that didn't need some observer effect or multiple 55 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: universes or a redefinition of the nature of reality. Well, 56 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: today we will be exploring a less popular theory of 57 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics that doesn't rely on randomness and uncertainty. It 58 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: tells us that what is happening to tiny particles is 59 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: much simpler and easier to swallow, and we'll talk about 60 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: why it's been overlooked by mainstream physics. So today on 61 00:03:52,600 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: the podcast, we'll be asking the question the quantum mechanics 62 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: have to be so random? My friend and co host 63 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: Orges on a break, so I'm continuing our series of 64 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: conversations with experts in quantum mechanics. We spoke to Adam 65 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: Becker about mainstream quantum mechanics, to Carlo Rovelli about his 66 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: theory of relational quantum mechanics, to Sean Carroll about the 67 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: many world interpretation, and today we are speaking to an 68 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: expert on pilot wave theory, also known as Boemian mechanics. 69 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: So it's my great pleasure today to introduce all of 70 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: you to Professor Valia Alori, who, if I understand correctly, 71 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: holds two pH d s, one in physics and one 72 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: in philosophy, so she's the perfect person for us to 73 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: talk to about the crazy philosophical consequences of quantum mechanics. 74 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: She's also a full professor in the Department of Philosophy 75 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: at Northern Illinois University and a fellow at the John 76 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: Bell Institute for Foundations of Physics. Professor A Lorii, welcome 77 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: the podcast. Thank you for having me, well, thank you 78 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: for coming here to talk to us about the mysteries 79 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: of quantum mechanics. Before we get into the details of 80 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: pilot wave theory, I thought we should take a step 81 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: back and remind ourselves why we have so many theories 82 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: of quantum mechanics and why there are still so many 83 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: questions about it. To me, the basic question we have 84 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: about quantum mechanics is what is going on? How do 85 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: we understand the story that it's telling us. Our intuition 86 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: is to think of particles as tiny dots of matter, 87 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: but quantum mechanics usually tells us that they are basically different, 88 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: that they are fundamentally different kinds of things because they 89 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: can maintain two contradictory possibilities at once. There's also this 90 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: wave function that seems to control what happens, but then 91 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,799 Speaker 1: it collapses when you touch it, but it's not clear 92 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: what the rules of that collapse are. It's so hard 93 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: to get a mental picture of what's going on with 94 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: the little particles. So how do you approach this question 95 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: of trying to understand what quantum mechanics? So first of all, 96 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: let me just say that I'm not sure that we 97 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: should understand quantum mechanics philosophically there is a sense in 98 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: which we don't understand quantum mechanics even physically as a 99 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: physical theory, because I mean, the theory seems to be 100 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: talking about you know, electrons and protons and matter in 101 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: general and fields, but when you actually look at the formalism, 102 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: it's unclear exactly what plays the rollers of what. So 103 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: we do have a an equation, the Shouldinger equation, which 104 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: is a question of the evolution of the wave function. 105 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: Should we understand the way function as a physical object. 106 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: If the wave function is a physical object, what does 107 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: it represent? Does it represent particles, does it represent fields? 108 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: Since I was a student, just to put it bluntly, 109 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: I really had trouble relating to the theory as a 110 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: physics student. But even granting that the it's accurate to 111 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: talk about that as a theory about something. Let's put 112 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: it this way. The ory, I would say, is either 113 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: empirically inadequate or it's incomplete. Why is that? Well, because 114 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: I just said that, you do have this equation, which 115 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: is the shrining equation, which is a again equestion of 116 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: evolution of an objicle the wave function, and the wave 117 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: function is a called like that because it's a wave 118 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: so and wave can superimpose. You know, you throw a 119 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: rock in the pond, right, throw another rock in the pond. 120 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: Then you see waves from one rock and then you 121 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: see the other rock. They superimposed. You have interference and 122 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: the fraction of this kind of behavior that you would 123 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: attribute to waves. Okay, And so since there's two superimposed. 124 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: If you think of the wave functions are presenting objects 125 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: of physical objects right at the microscopic level, they could 126 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: be in a superposition state, right, and nucluse that adioactive 127 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: substance of subsort could be in the superposition of a 128 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: decade state or a non decade state. And by superposition 129 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: you mean that there's two possibilities for an object. It 130 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: could be spin up or spin down, or decade or 131 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: not decade. There's two options for the situation. It can 132 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: actually be in yes, in a sense, yes, more generally, 133 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: I mean mathematically, this is the mathematical property of the equation, right. 134 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: I mean the prototype example is the problem of the 135 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: shrilling a cat, right, in which you do have this 136 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: cat which is in a box. Right in the box 137 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: that is this vial of poison. De vial of poison 138 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: will break because it's connected to this radioactive substance, so 139 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: it will break if the substance will decay. If nothing happens, 140 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: it will not break. So what happens is that if 141 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: the nucleus decase, bile of poison breaks and the cat dies. Okay, 142 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: So that's a possible state of affairs. Otherwise nothing happens 143 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: in the cat stays alive, okay. And so what happens 144 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: is that, however, given the superposition state possibility, given the 145 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: fact that there is a possibility of having a superposition 146 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: state as a true physical state for this system, then 147 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: you could also have this microscopic superposition of decade and 148 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: not decayed, which actually spread out of the cat. And 149 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: so the theory predicts this microscopic superposition which we never 150 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: ever observed. They are not observable. That's not what we 151 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: have experienced. Off So there is a very strong sense 152 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: in which the theory as it is is empirically inadequate, 153 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: because when we open the box and we when we 154 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: check on the cat, the cat is either dad or alive. 155 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: So what I'm hearing you saying is that quantum mechanics 156 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: is useful as a description of these microscopic states. But 157 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: which I think you mean like quantum particles, electrons and photons, etcetera. 158 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: But that we don't really understand what it means and 159 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: we can't access it directly. We can't like see these things. 160 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: We have to interact with them using macroscopic objects like 161 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: detectors or our fingers or cats, etcetera, which don't have 162 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: the same quantum properties, And so it doesn't really answer 163 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: the question of like, what's actually going on in the 164 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: microscopic leve Is that a summary of the problem. Yes, 165 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: Actually it's more than that. So not only doesn't explain 166 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: what's going on intuitively at the microscopic level, but also 167 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: if you try to apply the theory to everything, including 168 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: cats and detectors and stuff like that, the theory doesn't 169 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: give you what you observe. So it's really bad for 170 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: the theory. The theory doesn't I mean, it is actually 171 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: falsified directly by the fact that the training Garry question 172 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: is it's a linear I think because you're saying that 173 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: they suggest that cats should also be in superpositions, and 174 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: fingers and detectors and everything should be in superpositions. But 175 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: that's not what we observe. That's what you mean by 176 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: experimentally falsifying, Yes, exactly, and of course, I mean, you know, 177 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: the family fathers were not naive and the newness okay, 178 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: and that's why they proposed, at least that's what for 179 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: Neuman did, right. He proposed that there is actually a 180 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: second evolution a question for the wave function. And so 181 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: they say, okay, right, you don't want macroscopy superposition. Okay, 182 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: So when do you get them again? Oh, when there 183 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: is a measurement. Uh huh. So when the measurement is performed, 184 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: then there is a different evolution equation. The wave function 185 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: randomly collapses in one of the terms a superpositional when 186 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: you open the door and you see the cat ha ha, 187 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: the wave function actually collapses. So you write in a 188 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: sense right as a detector, right, you collapse the wave function. 189 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: The issue there is that we don't have a clear 190 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: definition of what a measurement is and when it happens. 191 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: Because you can imagine, you know, if I'm poking something 192 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: with my finger, the tip of my finger is still 193 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: a microscopic particle, So why should it collapse the way 194 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: function and two particles on the tip of my fingers 195 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: should still be a quantum mechanical system. So there's no 196 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: like clear line when something becomes classical or microscopic when 197 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: the wave function should collapse. Yes, exactly. I mean we 198 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: don't know who does the collapsing, who kills the cat? Right? 199 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: So is it me when I open the door, or 200 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: is it my consciousness? We don't really want to enter 201 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: into that. So it is a problem that you're suggesting. Namely, 202 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: it's not a precise physical theory. It doesn't really define 203 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: what a measurement is. Because I mean, this is puzzling, 204 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: because we just would like measurement just to be physical 205 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: processes like anything else, right, I mean, they're made of particles, 206 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: quantum particles, and so why are they special? So there 207 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: is a sense in which started from this, which is 208 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: called the measurement problem, because I mean, we are actually 209 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: measuring what is the state of the cat, and the 210 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: cat is actually measuring what is the state of the particle. 211 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: Another way of putting this would be that measurements, when 212 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: you're performing a measurement. Quantum theory says that measurements do 213 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: not have a precise result. Okay, so like the cat 214 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: doesn't have a precise state, and so various people call 215 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: them interpretation. But I actually think that they are different theories, 216 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: but they have different solutions of these problem so to speak. 217 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: So bo mechanics is one of those. It does solve 218 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: this problem, even if I do think that's not the way. 219 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: The reason why it was proposed. So this theory was 220 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: proposed by I mean, the first version of this was 221 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: proposed by the Brody in ninety three as part of 222 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: his dissertation. So according to this theory, what happens is 223 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: that I just like very very some people like to 224 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: put it and romantic, right, something very plan and boring 225 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: in a sense obvious because it's according to this theory, 226 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: matter is made of particles, just liking classical mechanics, but 227 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: they do have a different evolution equation than quantum theories. 228 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: In this theory there is this object which is the 229 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: wave function, which is the same guy as ordinary quantum theory, 230 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: but it devolves according to Shrinninger equation. So you do 231 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: have this an evolution a question for the particles, which 232 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: is first to order, and then you have an object 233 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: which is the wave function, which evolves like in regular 234 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics according to the Shrininger equation. So then in 235 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: the Copenhagen interpretation, the one most people are familiar with. 236 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: The wave function is supposed to be everything is supposed 237 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: to describe the whole system, and particles when we're not 238 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: looking at them, sort of operated according to this wave auction, 239 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: which you know evolves according to the Shortinger equation. But 240 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: then there's this weird second bit where things collapse to 241 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: particle like behavior that we observe when you look at them. So, 242 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: for example, you have a particle that's supposed to hit 243 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: the screen, the whole wave hits the whole screen, but 244 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: at some point when it interacts, when that measurement happens, 245 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: then it becomes a single point, a flash of light 246 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: on that screen. And so you're saying that Bomian mechanics 247 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: is different because not only do you have the wave function, 248 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: but you also have the particles. It's not like this. 249 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: There's sometimes waves and then sometimes particles. They're always particles, 250 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: but they're governed by this wave that sort of guides 251 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: them through their path. Yes, so there are always particles. 252 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: That's what matter is made off. Tables and chairs and 253 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: people and screens and detectors and whatever are all made 254 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: of particles. So what happens is that these particles their 255 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: trajectories is mathematically written down in terms of this wave function, 256 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: and this way function in itself evolves according to a 257 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: given equation. Okay, So usually what you said is kind 258 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: of important because some I mean, very common way of 259 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: describing the theory, which is also called because of this reason, 260 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: the pilot wave theory, is that this particle are pushed 261 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: around by this wave. Okay. So the user slogan is, oh, 262 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: it's not particle end waves or waves, it's particle end waves. Okay. 263 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: So there is a sense in which this is true, 264 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: in the sense that there are particles and there is 265 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: also this wave function. However, I think that it is 266 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: kind of misleading to think of that in these terms, 267 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: because if you think about what kind of entity the 268 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: wave function is, it is a wave, but not a 269 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: wave in three dimensional space. Okay. If you think of 270 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: how to represent the wave function, what the wave function 271 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: really is, It's a function of all the particles, right, 272 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: It is a function of the configuration in the case 273 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: of bow Mean mechanics, the function of the configuration about 274 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: the particles. So it has three dimensions for every particle. 275 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: So in total it has three n dimensions. If the 276 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: universe is composed of and particles, so it's not a 277 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: field into adimensional space. The way function, then, just to 278 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: be clear, talks about the trajectory of all of the 279 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: particles in the universe, and so they're all sort of 280 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: combined into this one grand object. The way function mechanics 281 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: talks about is the way function of the universe. So 282 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: the one that evolves according to the shooting their question 283 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: is the way function of the universe. So I do 284 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: have two things to clarify here. So the first thing is, 285 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: so how we should interpret this wave function physically. It's 286 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: an open question. I mean, philosophers and physicists are talking 287 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: about this all the time. But I do think if 288 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: you describe b My mechanics as I just did name 289 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: it is a theory of particles with the wave function 290 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: defining that trajectory, and you can understand that the way 291 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: function as pushing the particles just in the same way 292 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: as you understand gravity is pulling stuff right on the ground. Okay, 293 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: So it's I think that the best this is my 294 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: personal take on this, is that the best way of 295 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: understanding the way function in Bowman mechanics is to think 296 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: of that as law like right, It's part of the 297 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: ingredients of the law of nature, something that you need 298 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: right in order to specify the right trajectory, the one 299 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: that you observe. And so the other thing was about 300 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: the way function of the universe. So the fact that 301 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: the way function is a function of all these particles 302 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: is something that leads to a very important feature of 303 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: Bonan mechanics, which is it's no locality. And I want 304 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: to talk about non locality in a minute, but first 305 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: I just want to make sure that we have a 306 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: clear sense of what's going on here. So we talked 307 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: about how the problem with quantum mechanics was this measurement 308 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: problem that what happens when you measure this wave and 309 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 1: it collapses into a particle. So how exactly does bow 310 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: mean mechanics solve that problem? Is it because things are 311 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: always a particle and so when you look at them, 312 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: they were a particle and it's no big deal, and 313 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: this is where it was, and it has like a 314 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: well defined trajectory that in bow Mean mechanics you really 315 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: can think about like electrons as tiny little dots of 316 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: matter flying through the universe, the way planets fly through 317 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: the Solar system. Yes, I think that's right in the 318 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: case of the cat. The cats made of particles like 319 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: everything else, So it is either dead or alive. Okay. 320 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: The cat is either dead or alive at all times. Okay, 321 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: So the macroscopic superposition should not belong to the wave functions. 322 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: But the wave function is not what cat is made of. 323 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: The cat was made of particles and particulars a precise location, 324 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: which is what it is right, either in the dead 325 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: camp or a in the life camp. So this is 326 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: really different from the way people are sort of taught 327 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: to think about quantum mechanics. That information isn't there until 328 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: you measure it, that there's a fuzziness to the universe 329 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: that is fundamentally random, all these really alien elements of 330 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics that make it so weird. Bo Mean mechanics 331 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: seems to sort of like chuck that out the window 332 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: and say, no, everything actually is determined. There is no 333 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: randomness or uncertainty. There's just some information you sometimes haven't 334 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: measured yet, but it's really there. That the cat really 335 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: is dead or is alive. It's never sort of uncertain. 336 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: Is that true? That there's really no randomness, no true 337 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: randomness In Boomian mechanics. It depends on what is meant 338 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: by that. So it is true that the cat is 339 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: either dead or alive. It is true that the particles 340 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: even passes through one sleet or the other sleet. It 341 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: is true that when you observe a flash on the screen, 342 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: that was coming from a particle that traveled all the 343 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: way from the source to the screen. And it is 344 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: true that there is no fuzziness. That's why I think 345 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: that Bomian mechanics is physically clear. And the question is okay, 346 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: so is there no randomness? Well, now there is randomness 347 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: because the prediction of Bomian mechanics are provable to be 348 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: the same as quantum mechanics. And quantum mechanics predicts probabilities. Right, 349 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: the traditional stories that you do get only the probabilities 350 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: of the results. Right, you obtain this, this or that 351 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: not with a definite outcome. For sure, you have a 352 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: probability distribution of the experimental results. So the legitimate question 353 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: is where is the probability is coming from in Bomia mechanics. 354 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: They come from the fact that So I mean, this 355 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: is more general question about how is it possible to 356 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: get probabilities if you have a deterministic theory. Deterministic theory, 357 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: you have one past, one future, right if you know 358 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: the law. If you not the initialis condition, you know everything, right, 359 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: everything is determined. If you have this laplacean demon knows 360 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: it at all and everything he knows everything. So this 361 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: is a deterministic theory. So where the probability is coming from. 362 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: They're coming from the initiative conditions. Okay, so there are 363 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: two elements here, right. In determinism is something like that, 364 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: given the initiative conditions and given the laws, you know everything. 365 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: So if you do know the laws and you do 366 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: know that, I mean principle, you can predict anything. I 367 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: want to talk more about this randomness and initial conditions, 368 00:20:46,200 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: but first let's take a quick break. All right, we're back, 369 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: and we are talking about Bomian mechanics, a really fascinating 370 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: quantum theory that describes the universe as filled with actual, 371 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: tiny little dots of matter moving on what are like 372 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: classical paths, but guided by a wave function that gives 373 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: them the appearance of wave like behavior. And the element 374 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: that we're talking about right now is this question of randomness. 375 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: In traditional quantum mechanics, we are told that the universe 376 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: is fundamentally random, that there aren't hidden variables that control 377 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: what actually happens. But Boian mechanics says the opposite. It 378 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: says that things are actually determined by the initial conditions, 379 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: and that if you do the same experiment multiple times 380 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: with exactly the same initial conditions, you should get the 381 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: same output. So I'm a particle physicist and at the 382 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: Large Hadron Collider we smash protons together multiple times, and 383 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: we often say that if we smash those protons together 384 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: with exactly the same initial conditions, we would still get 385 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: different outcomes every time. That is quantum mechanical, and that 386 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: it's drawn from some probability distribution that somewhere seriously, the 387 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: universe is like rolling the dye based on this probability 388 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: distribution and deciding what happens on the giving collision. But 389 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: you're saying that Bomian mechanics is deterministic, and that if 390 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: I get two different collisions giving me two different outcomes, 391 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: that's because the initial conditions were slightly different, the protons 392 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: that a slightly different energy or slightly different angle, and 393 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: that if it was actually able to repeat the same 394 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: exact experiment, I should get the same exact outcome, is 395 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: that right? So yes, so so so if you say 396 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: that you do have this distribution of the particles, the 397 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: particles of distributed according to quantum ecalibbon distribution, and it 398 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: is an equilibient distribution and nothing changes anymore, then that's 399 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: the most complete information that you may have about this particles. 400 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: And so we don't have more knowledge than this about 401 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: the particles. Then we have absolute tons certainty about the 402 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: precise positions of the particles. And so this plays out 403 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: into having a distribution of the outcomes at the end 404 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: of the experiment. I see. So we have particles which 405 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: go through the experiment using deterministic laws. So the entire 406 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: outcomes determined for each particle based on how it came 407 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: into the experiment. But we have some distribution of inputs 408 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: at the particles when they come into the experiment. They're 409 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: never all actually at the same angle or location or whatever. 410 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: There's some variation there and that gives a variation in 411 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: the output. So not a randomness, but you have sort 412 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: of variation and the inputs gets translated to a variation 413 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: on the outputs, sort of like you know that game 414 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: where you drop a ball and it goes left and right, 415 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: and left and right and left and right. It sort 416 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: of chaotic. It's very hard to predict exactly what slot 417 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: it's going to go into. But in theory, if you 418 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: did drop it exactly the same place twice, it should 419 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: end up in the same slot twice. So boomy and 420 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: mechanics describes the universe that way that you have some 421 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: like variation in how the balls start to drop, which 422 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: is how you get a variation in the output. But 423 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: each trajectory of each one really is like a tiny, 424 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: classical little baseball. That's crazy to me. I mean that 425 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: requires like a whole rethinking of the idea of quantum mechanics, 426 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: because I've spent twenty years getting used to this concept 427 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: of the universe being random and unavailable and fuzzy, and 428 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: this is now saying, oh, no, you actually don't have 429 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: to take that whole weird route after all. Yes, that's right, 430 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: so you don't have to and so why go for it? 431 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: So I I mean, there is this is uncertainty that 432 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: you have regarding the nition then the configuration, right, initial configuration, 433 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: But that's it, right, you don't have to transform that 434 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: into in the necessarily into somehow random trajectories or randomness 435 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: more radical levels. But where is the fuzziness come from 436 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: in the beginning? I mean, does the universe start with fuzziness? 437 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: Because the standard picture we have, like why the universe 438 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: is not totally smooth while we have galaxies here and 439 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: not over there, is that we had some like quantum 440 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: fluctuations in the early universe that gave us densities which 441 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: you know, dot dot dot. Billions of years later we 442 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: have galaxies. Where did those fluctuations in the density of 443 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: the early universe come from, If not from quantum randomness, 444 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: is it some pre pre initial condition before the Big Bang? Yeah, well, 445 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: I have no idea, I mean, but I mean this 446 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: is I think it's a very very important thing to notice. Right. So, 447 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: if you do have a theory, which is like moving mechanics, 448 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: is precise mathematically and physically, meaning you do have equations 449 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: right written there, they apply every time, right, it's not like, oh, 450 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: you use this or use that measurement or no measurement. No, 451 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: it's precise, okay, And it's precise physically gives you a 452 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: picture of what's going on, which is exactly how it 453 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: was in the classical you know, when we're thinking about 454 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: classical physics, and one of the you know, the marriage 455 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: is that you can visualize. Okay. So but if you 456 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: do have this theory and there are crazy things about it, 457 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: you know how to which questions are needed? Right? Which 458 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: questions are really the ones that we should focus on? Okay? 459 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: So one question is where is this absolute ansertainty coming from? 460 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: Another question, right, is what about the fact the way 461 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: function is a function of all the configuration. There is 462 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: a sense in which you may think that, you know, 463 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: bombing mechanics removes all the romance from from physics, and 464 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: that I think that's you know, a merriage romance. I 465 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: would say, removes all the headaches the head Oh yeah, exactly. 466 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: I mean to me, it removes all the headaches. But 467 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: some people, you know, they think of that, Oh yeah, 468 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: but I mean the observer, you know, gains again, right, 469 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: the center of the attention. I'm not sympathetic at all 470 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: about this kind of talk, but I mean some people 471 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: are attracted by the craziness, right, and so when they 472 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: hear about Bowman mechanics, they think, oh, what is the 473 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: all the fun? What is this? I mean, physics is fun, 474 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: but maybe in a different way. I'm sympathetic to that, 475 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: because I think we want physics to teach us the 476 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: truth of the universe, and we hope in our hearts 477 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: somehow the truth of the universe is not what we 478 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: imagine that we're gonna be learning something that requires some 479 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: sort of like mental revolution to be like, wow, the 480 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: universe is so weird and different from what we imagine. 481 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: And so if you're just telling me, know, the universe 482 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: at the tiny scale, it's just a tiny little bunch 483 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: of baseballs, the way it is sort of like at 484 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: the atomic scale and the macroscopic scale and the scale 485 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: of planets and stars, then yeah, I guess that does 486 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: remove a little bit of the mystery. But you know what, 487 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: I was struggling to learn quantum mechanics and absorb it 488 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: intuitively as a college student. The thing that really got 489 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: me over the hump were these bells, theorems, and these 490 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: bells and equalities that really seemed like definitive proof that 491 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,959 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics was random. And we have these experiments and 492 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: very clever people have shown that there are these correlations 493 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: among entangled particles that simply cannot happen if quantum mechanics 494 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: was not fundamentally random that you can't like secretly hide 495 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: all the information that it can't be the things are 496 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: really just one way or not the other way that 497 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: you know before you look at the electronic always was 498 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: spin up in my mind. Those bells and equality really 499 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: sort of like killed that possibility. Said, no, you have 500 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: to accept fundamental randomness. Why don't these theorems, these bills 501 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: and equalities and those experiments, why don't they kill Bonian mechanics? 502 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: They did kill it for a long time. Actually, you 503 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: know the first theorem that was the theory which allegedly 504 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: proved that heat and variable something impossible. It was still 505 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: too for Neuman in nine five or something like that, 506 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: and so he basically wanted to put an end to 507 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: all uh for reasons that are you know, maybe historically interesting, 508 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: but I mean what he wanted to provide was a 509 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: proof and mathematical proof that you cannot do better than 510 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: quantum theory. So that was just like kind of you know, oh, 511 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: we all would like to have a pictorial view of 512 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: visualized visualize about theory, right, but we cannot. That's what 513 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: he wanted to prove, and so he went by contradiction. Okay, 514 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: so he said, Okay, let's pretend for a second that 515 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: we can complete quantum mechanics. Let's pretend for a second 516 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: that we can add these hidden variables right to the theory. 517 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: The theory is not complete, right, it is, there are 518 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: these even variables. At first, their hidden for them in 519 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: the sense that quantum theory doesn't specify what they are. 520 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: And so he said, okay, let's pretend let's start with 521 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: this theory, let's work it out, let's work the consequences out. 522 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: And what he obtained was that there is some sort 523 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: of a contradiction, like five is greater than seven. I mean, 524 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: it's not really the case, but I mean you can 525 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: imagine something like that. Okay. So he said, okay, what 526 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: are the assumptions? I mean the reasonable assumption. So the 527 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: only assumption that so we had reasonable assumption, we started 528 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: from this hidden variable theory, we get contradictions. So the 529 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 1: only way out is just to say there are no 530 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: hidden variables. The quantum world is weird. For those of 531 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: you who don't know of Annoyingment is one of the 532 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: great mathematical geniuses of the century and really credited with 533 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: like pulling together the mathematics of modern quantum theory, and 534 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: so when he said something, people tended to listen, and 535 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: you know, it was sort of difficult to stand up 536 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: to Vannyman. You know, back in the forties when he 537 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: was in his hey day, he was very influential exactly. 538 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: I mean, there is actually something normal. It's not like 539 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: you can charge these people to have listened and just 540 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: relied on the authority. It was just like kind of normous. 541 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: It's not for Noyman process theory. I mean, there's not 542 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: much of a reason to suspect that he was wrong. 543 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: But he was wrong because he assumed something, which is 544 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: the start that assumption of quantum theory. The experiment doesn't 545 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: really change the system, Okay, The interaction is small enough 546 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: that the property that you're trying to measure is left 547 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: the same. Okay, like I was talking about before, right, 548 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: I do believe I have a fever. Say, okay, I 549 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: want to measure my temperature and making an experiment, put 550 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: the thermometer under my arm. Wait a second, wait for 551 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: the interaction. Than the mercury or whatever, the gallium or 552 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: whatever it is, expands and it gives me the temperature. Okay, 553 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: So but the temperature that I read it's not really 554 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: my temperature before I actually put the thermometer under my army. 555 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: It's actually the equilibrium temperature between the thermometermy and me. Okay, so, 556 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: but what I read is we forget about this all 557 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: the time because we believe that, I mean, this is 558 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: the property of the thermometer, which was the thermometer in 559 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: such a way that it doesn't affect too much that 560 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: the equilibrium temperature is really close to my original temperature. 561 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: So you're saying that, for example, when you measure your temperature, 562 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: you actually measure slightly lower temperature than your actual temperature 563 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: because the thermometer is slightly cooler than you and you 564 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: guys have come into equilibrium, and it's sort of like 565 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: putting a tiny little piece of ice on you and 566 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: it's cooled you down a little bit. And in the 567 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: same way, you need to take that into account. And 568 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: van Neuman ignored the impact of the measurement on the 569 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: system when he was making all of his calculations and 570 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: proof that quantum mechanics had to be random, that you 571 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: couldn't have any hidden variables. Right, It's actually worse than that, 572 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: because I mean, this is a general assumption that we 573 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: all make when you're doing quantum theory, right, we do 574 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: assume that I mean the operators represent properties. The problem 575 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: is that most of the time the experiments are such 576 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: that they perturbed the system so much that they don't 577 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: measure anything about the system. They tell you something about 578 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: the interaction. Think about you want to know where the 579 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: table is, Okay, so you switch on the light. Basically 580 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: what happens you hit the table surface with photons, the 581 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: photos going to your retina, and the retina records the result. Right, 582 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: but I mean the photo world bounce back, but also 583 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: the table ricoisly to bit. You forget about that, okay, 584 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: because the mass and blah blah blah. Okay, it's much bigger. However, instead, 585 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: if you instead of willing to try and find the 586 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: position of the table, you want to try and find 587 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: the position of an electron. Okay, you switch on the light. 588 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: The photon hits the electron, and the electron goes. So 589 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: what you measure the electron is going to click somewhere 590 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: in some detectors somewhere, So the position what you're measuring 591 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: is not the position of the electron before, it's the 592 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: position afterwards, Okay, which is totally fine, but I mean 593 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: what is tricky and sometimes what you want is that 594 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: not What for no, Himan actually proved was not that 595 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: hidden variables are impossible, but that he proved that not 596 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: all experiments are actually measurement. So all these certain experiments 597 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: are able to measure, namely those experiments where the interaction 598 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: is not that high to destroy the system or perturbit 599 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: too much. And how does that connect with hidden variables? 600 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: Like I get that he's showing that you can only 601 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: make a measurement if you're making it very small, all 602 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: negligible interaction on the system, that you're extracting information from 603 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: what happened before he measured it. How does that connect 604 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: to the question of whether quantum mechanics is really random 605 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: or whether there's sort of hidden information in there that 606 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: controls what's happening. It doesn't have much to do with 607 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: him invariables. That for sure. His theorem was supposed to 608 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: be showing that he did invariables are impossible, Okay, But 609 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: he didn't show that because he had this assumption in it. 610 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: He came out with the contradiction because he was assuming 611 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: this and so he was assuming that there are properties 612 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: and these properties have actually weird behavior. So he set 613 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: out to prove that hidden variables couldn't exist, and he 614 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: did by contradiction, but instead of a false assumption into 615 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: his proof, which is the thing that led to the contradiction. 616 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: So his conclusion about hiddenvariables was therefore invalid because the 617 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: contradiction came from somewhere else. And then this stood for decades. Right, 618 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: people thought, oh no, him improved, the quantum mechanics must 619 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: be random, so this the burglary theory, This, this deterministic 620 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: idea of quantum mechanics, We shouldn't even think about that. 621 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: And then what happened? When did people realize, oh, hold, 622 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: the second pandomen was wrong and it's possible to have 623 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: determinist e quantum mechanics. Yeah, well, some people actually figured 624 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: this out immediately, but we're ignored either because they were 625 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, not very well known figure, or because they 626 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: didn't really want to batter. I mean, according to some people, 627 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: did Einstein figured this out immediately, but he didn't bother 628 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: to reply. And it is also true that the original 629 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,720 Speaker 1: proof of phen nomen had other issues, which, however, where 630 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, taking care of in proofs that came later. 631 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: But the person who actually figured this out was Bell 632 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: John Bell, who actually came back to this for no 633 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: human proof and figure out where he was wrong, namely 634 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: the assumption that operators necessarily mean you can understand experiments 635 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: always as measurement, which is not necessarily the case. So 636 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: the same Bell who is responsible for most people thinking 637 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 1: that equantum mechanics has to be random because he showed 638 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: these crazy inequalities, is the one who also revealed that 639 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: no Eman was wrong improving the quantum exist random. So 640 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: this Bell guy had a pretty big role to play 641 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: in our understanding one of mechanics. Yes, yes, and I mean. 642 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: And also it is the case that he was often 643 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: misunderstood for many years, even if he clearly wrote down 644 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: what he was trying to prove. So I mean indeed 645 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: he was writing about for Annoyman's proven very shortly after 646 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: he came up with his own belt inequality. So he 647 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: did try to provide a didn't variable theory. So he 648 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 1: was trying to do the same as for Annoyman and say, okay, 649 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: so if we do have it, this is it an 650 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: a variable? Here? What do we get? There is a 651 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: sense in which you can take as you were doing 652 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: at the beginning, right, he's inequality, just like a different 653 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: variety of impossibility proof against the invariable. But actually, as 654 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: many people would say, even if there is a sense 655 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: in which is it's controversial, I mean it's it's controversial 656 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: whether he actually proved it. What it's not controversially is 657 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: what he thought, Namely, he thought to have proven that 658 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: at the end of the name, if you have a 659 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,479 Speaker 1: theory which respects the prediction of quantum kind of extent, 660 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: this theory has to be non no com right, So 661 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: let's unpack what that means for a moment. Because bells 662 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: inequality tells us that the universe has to be random, 663 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: there can't be any hidden variables. But it turns out 664 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: there's a caveat. That's only true if you're talking about 665 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 1: so called local information, right, and information which is accessible 666 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: to somebody like in their immediate environment. You know, like 667 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: I can know what's near me, I can measure something nearby, 668 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: but I don't know anything about what's happening in Andromeda 669 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: right now because this sort of limited passage of information. 670 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: And I want to talk more about entanglement and locality, 671 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: but first let's take another quick break. Okay, we're back 672 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: and we are talking about whether quantum mechanics is what 673 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: we call local. We know that there's a limit on 674 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: how fast in formation can move, that there's this speed 675 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: limit of information in the universe, and that information cannot 676 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 1: move instantaneously. But this gets confusing when we talk about 677 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: entangled particles. You create two electrons so that they have 678 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,240 Speaker 1: to have opposite spin, but you don't know which electron 679 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: has spin up and which one is spinned down. But 680 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: as soon as you measure one to be spin up, 681 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: for example, you know instantaneously that the other one has 682 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: to be spinned down. And that seems sort of nonlocal 683 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: because the particles can be entangled, but they can also 684 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: be really far apart. So all of a sudden, when 685 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: you measure the spin of one particle, the other one, 686 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,280 Speaker 1: which is many many kilometers or maybe light years away, 687 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: instantaneously collapses to have the other possibility. So I would 688 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,879 Speaker 1: put it slightly differently in the sense that I would 689 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: say that in general, what Bell proofed is that you 690 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: do have no locality. In general, at the beginning particle 691 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: one didn't have any spin property because of the entire state. 692 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: When it's measured. Instead, oh, it turns up up so 693 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: and the other immediately down. And the issue there, of course, 694 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: is that these things can be separated. Right, so if 695 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: these two particles, they have to have opposite spins, and 696 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: classical or in the traditional equantum mechanics tells us that 697 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,240 Speaker 1: both of them have the possibility to be up and down. 698 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: And so when you measure one of them and it 699 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: becomes up, then the other one, now hundreds of miles 700 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: away or thousands of miles away, somehow instantaneously goes from 701 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: being up or down to only being down. And that's 702 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 1: this question of nonlocality, right, how does the information get 703 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: from one particle, you know, to the other particle faster 704 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: than the speed of light. Yes, that's a problem. That's 705 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: something that the scars and regarded as a non starter. 706 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: That was just like thinking about, I mean, that's one 707 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: possibility and the other possibilities instead that they really had 708 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: a property or spin since the beginning. Right, So you 709 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: measure spin up because the first guy always had spin 710 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: up from the start, okay, And so they don't actually talk, right, 711 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 1: they were prepared and up and down and you detect 712 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: them up and down. And that's this hidden variables interpretation 713 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: that they always are something. It's just you don't know 714 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: about it. It's sort of hidden from you until you 715 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: measure it. But that there's no like actual uncertainty. It's 716 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: not like there's the particles actually in up and down 717 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: until you measure it. And so that's this problem with nonlocality, right, 718 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: And you're saying, einstein collaborators were suggesting this is ridiculous 719 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: because it requires a theory that's nonlocal, that somehow these 720 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: things have to you know, coordinate to make sure that 721 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: they're always opposite spins. And so what did Bell showed? 722 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: Bell showed that every theory of quantum mechanics has to 723 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: be nonlocal, Yes, because I mean he started off with 724 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: a theory like that and he predicts inequality, and so 725 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: they eat in variables. You have to imagine something like this, 726 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: so you have quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics implies that there 727 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: has to be eating variables. So one of the main 728 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: objections people might have to this theory of deterministic particles 729 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: being guided by the way function information is actually there, 730 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 1: it's just that we don't know it sometimes is that 731 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,720 Speaker 1: we thought that quantum mechanics have to be random because 732 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: of these arguments by Bell and these experiments that showed 733 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 1: that you couldn't explain these experiments using some hidden variables. 734 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: But it turns out then you couldn't explain those experiments 735 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: using local hidden variables, but you can explain those experiments 736 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: using non local hidden variables. So Bonian mechanics works and 737 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: is consistent with experiments if you have nonlocality, this idea 738 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: that particles that are not in the same place, that 739 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: are not near each other, can somehow you know, communicate 740 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: or coordinate their arrangements. And you might think, well, that's crazy, 741 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: that it's bonkers, how could that be possible? And that 742 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: seems like a pretty big objection, But I think, as 743 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: you're saying, Bell showed that this is actually true and 744 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: required for all theories of quantum mechanics, not just Bomian mechanics, 745 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: And so it's not really a strike against Bomian mechanics 746 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 1: to say that requires non local information. Yes, that's true, 747 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: because I mean he did prove his inequality. And if 748 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: you if right, then down in the in the appropriate way, 749 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: you will see that the hidden variable is just a 750 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: passage in the deduction, but it's actually something that you 751 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:13,399 Speaker 1: don't require so that arguably what's going on is that 752 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: every single theory that has the same predictions fantum mechanics 753 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: will turn out to be non local. But doesn't nonlocality 754 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: seems sort of crazy. I mean, special relativity tells us 755 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: that information takes time to propagate through the universe. That 756 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: what's happening in Andromeda can't influence me right now because 757 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: I'm outside of its light cone. So if you're telling 758 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: me that not only does Bonian mechanics, which seems like 759 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: a beautiful description of the universe and nicely deterministic, require nonlocality, 760 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: but all theories of econom mechanics require nonlocality, how do 761 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: I then accept that? How do I think about the 762 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: universe as nonlocal? Does it mean that every particle in 763 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,799 Speaker 1: Andromeda potentially can influence me right now? Yeah? Okay, so 764 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: that's the craziness, right. So that's a good thing about 765 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,440 Speaker 1: Bona mechanics because in this theory the non locality is obvious. 766 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: It's clear right there in the wave functions. So then 767 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: that thing that we need to do as physicist is 768 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: to investigate how it's possible for a theory like that 769 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: to be compatible with relativity theory, right, so we just 770 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,800 Speaker 1: give access to the right questions again before I actually 771 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that. I mean, so you 772 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: don't really have to go into the interpretation and show 773 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: that all the other interpretation are no local. Just think 774 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 1: about the regular theory, okay, with the collapse. When you 775 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,319 Speaker 1: do have the collapse, the collapse is no local, right, 776 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: I mean, think about the original EPR argument. Right, how 777 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 1: do you explain the compa relation over there? It's no local, right, 778 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 1: You measure one, the other has to tell the first 779 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: one has to tell the other one. Right, that's no 780 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: locality right there. It's not a problem of the hidden variables. 781 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: I mean the regular I mean, the textbook theory has 782 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: it right there. Indeed, Heisenberg accepted that, yes, there are 783 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: some lectures that I forgot the year the precise here 784 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: in which he talks about exactly this. Right, the collapse 785 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: is no local, But then he says it doesn't contradict relativity. 786 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: He did really take it seriously that much because he 787 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: thought that you kind of use the non locality of 788 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: the collapse transfer information. So if you think of relativity 789 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: as a theory of sicknals, there is not I mean, 790 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: you can't get around, there's no locality, right, And so 791 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: for our listeners who are curious, it does seem like 792 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 1: there's some weird nonlocal features of quantum mechanics, but it 793 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: is not possible to use that nonlocality to send information 794 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: faster than the speed of light. And Jorge and I 795 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 1: did a whole podcast on that, so check that out 796 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: in detail. We don't have time to get into all 797 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,640 Speaker 1: of that today, but if you're curious about why you 798 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: can't send information fast in the speed of light using 799 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,240 Speaker 1: quantum entanglement, we did cover that in the whole podcast episode. 800 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 1: All right, So this is really fascinating and I don't 801 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: want to use too much more of your time, so 802 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: I just want to ask you if Bowman mechanics, you know, 803 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: is a nice, beautiful picture of the universe and explains 804 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 1: all the experiments that we have and doesn't require us 805 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: to accept some strange, alien uncertainty and randomness that's counterintuited 806 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,800 Speaker 1: and only requires the acceptance of this concept of nonlocality, 807 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: which already is present in all other quantum theories. Then 808 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: why isn't it the dominant quantum theory? What are the 809 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,239 Speaker 1: objections against it? Is? It's still sort of like historical 810 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: inertia because von Neuman didn't like it, or there you know, 811 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: real philosophical objections to it. So I mean, I think 812 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: that part of the problem has to do with the 813 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: fact that historically it was blocked. I mean there is 814 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: all this, you know, historical accidents that happened one after 815 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,799 Speaker 1: the other. I mean the first bomb was you know, 816 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: ostracized for various reasons, and then for Neuman contributed to this, 817 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: there seemed to be no real reason to reject this 818 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: theory from from a rational point of view. I mean, 819 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: it provides a clear mathematical picture. It's a clear physical 820 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: picture as well. You do have to accept no locality, 821 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: as you said, but I mean it's something that we 822 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: have to deal with. Some people sometimes mentioned that, oh, 823 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: it's not testable in the sense that probably the prediction 824 00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 1: of the Boomian mechanics are the same as quantum theory. 825 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,720 Speaker 1: That's not a good objection for a variety of reason. First, 826 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: because I mean, you have a piece of evidence. You 827 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: have two theories, right, and so which one of the 828 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: theories the evidence confirming, assuming that you can confirm a 829 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,439 Speaker 1: theory the first? Okay, so who came first? The brawl 830 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 1: nine twenty three. Right, uh, and so because no, no, no, no, 831 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 1: but it's simpler, right, you come to mechanics is simpler, 832 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 1: that's just one equation, but the mechanics has two equations, 833 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: one equation with two evolution equation. Okay, so what about 834 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: time of light? You have particle physicists, right, you measure 835 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,359 Speaker 1: time of flight, You measure where the particle how long 836 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 1: they take to go from here to there? But there 837 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 1: is no time open it. And so what are this 838 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: time of light results? Well, I mean the drugular quantum 839 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: theory have resorts to this kind of approximation. Right. If 840 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 1: you approximate the time measurement in one way or in 841 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 1: another way, you get different distribution of results. Booming mechanics 842 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 1: gives you uh, you know their particles, right, So you 843 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: don't need the operators, right, you just do you use 844 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,799 Speaker 1: the particles trajectories and do the calculation that you would 845 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 1: do classically, but with quantum tra actorism. And so there 846 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: is the possibility of actually making an experiment. So there 847 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: are some cases in which you can put yourself in 848 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 1: a situation in which the prediction from quantum theory are 849 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 1: different from boom mechanics. This can happen because you know, 850 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,799 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics is not precise, some bigues in disrespect, so 851 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: you can test out. So there is a strong sense 852 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 1: in which you can, you know, falsify quantum theory or 853 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: quantum mechanics. So even if your physicists are usually strong 854 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 1: about this undetectability business, but I mean, no, you can detect. So, 855 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I really don't understand that much about the 856 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:44,799 Speaker 1: reasons why quantum mechanics hasn't been taken more seriously by physicists. 857 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: And I hope the situation we've changed. Well, what it 858 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 1: might require for to change is maybe for us to 859 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,800 Speaker 1: meet alien intelligence and talk to them about quantum mechanics 860 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: and you know, maybe their way in and will say, sorry, folks, 861 00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: we think it's many worlds or no, what you call 862 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: booming mechanics is what makes most sense to us. So 863 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,399 Speaker 1: on the topic, let me ask you are totally off 864 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: the wall question, what do you think are the chances 865 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 1: of that that if we meet alien intelligence that they 866 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,880 Speaker 1: will have sort of similar concepts about the universe. I mean, 867 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: it's really another way to ask the question, do you 868 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,120 Speaker 1: think what we're doing here are playing games inside our 869 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: own minds? To try to tell mathematical stories about the 870 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 1: universe it makes sense to us, or do you think 871 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: we're actually probing something deep and universal which we could 872 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: present without embarrassment at the first Interstellar Physics meeting after 873 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,640 Speaker 1: we meet the aliens. I really do hope that we 874 00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: can meaningfully talk about the universe, and it seems like 875 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: we are actually succeeding in that right. We explained so 876 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,440 Speaker 1: many things since the beginning that we started doing science. No, 877 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,440 Speaker 1: we've made many hypothesis and constructive many theories, and some 878 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: some of them were bad ideas, some of them are 879 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,640 Speaker 1: better ideas. I think that the fact that we are 880 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: explaining so much is an indication that maybe we are 881 00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 1: onto something, but I don't know. I hope that we 882 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,439 Speaker 1: can contribute to the alien meeting in some way. Maybe 883 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,640 Speaker 1: they have their own version of bondingment and they've made 884 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: their own mistakes along the way, so we can help 885 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: them understand some of the things that we have learned. 886 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: I hope also that when we meet the aliens, we 887 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,799 Speaker 1: can talk physics with them, because I hope that they 888 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: are advanced and that millions of years ago they were 889 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 1: struggling with these questions and now to them. It's child's play. 890 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 1: But I fear honestly that everything we've learned is sort 891 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,280 Speaker 1: of centered in the human mind. We're asking human questions, 892 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: we're telling human stories using mathematical tools that makes sense 893 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,400 Speaker 1: to humans, and that it might be frankly impossible to 894 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,360 Speaker 1: translate into this knowledge to any other intelligence. But it 895 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,880 Speaker 1: remains to be seen, and the universe has filled with surprises. 896 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 1: So I look forward to having hard quantum mechanics conversations 897 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,120 Speaker 1: with alien physicists. All right, And with that, I'll say 898 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,319 Speaker 1: thank you very much for coming out a podcast and 899 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,719 Speaker 1: talking to us about this crazy concept of boom and mechanics. 900 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,800 Speaker 1: It seems to me like sort of a beautiful theory 901 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,240 Speaker 1: that lets us recover the sense that the universe makes sense, 902 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 1: that these particles are flying through the air, and they 903 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 1: have victories, and they were here and then they're there, 904 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:03,920 Speaker 1: which means that they were sort of in between in 905 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,320 Speaker 1: the middle. That you can still think about the universe 906 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,759 Speaker 1: in a way that's intuitive to you, and that you 907 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,360 Speaker 1: can sort of get rid of a lot of this 908 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,359 Speaker 1: quantum weirdness and uncertainty. In some ways, it even hangs 909 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 1: together better than other theories, and it's a sort of 910 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 1: unfortunate that it was cast aside for so many decades 911 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,440 Speaker 1: because of the mistake of eminent physicists. But we'll see 912 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: what the future holds and how much progress we have 913 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 1: to make. So thanks again very much for coming on 914 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,279 Speaker 1: the podcast. It was a pleasure. Thank you, Thank you 915 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:39,600 Speaker 1: very much. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and 916 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: Jorge explained. The Universe is a production of I Heart 917 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 1: Radio or more podcast. For my heart Radio, visit the 918 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,640 Speaker 1: I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 919 00:49:49,719 --> 00:50:01,160 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.