Speaker 1: Welcome to Playback, a Variety podcast. I'm your host, Variety
Speaker 1: Awards Editor Chris Tapley. On today's show, we have top
Speaker 1: fives for you, top five films of the year. A
Speaker 1: little bit later, I'll be talking to Fences star Viola Davis.
Speaker 1: So stick around. All right, we're back and here's Janelle Riley.
Speaker 1: Good morning, and we're gonna give you our top five.
Speaker 1: No no, although aren't you doing like a bmorary mentions.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw a yeah, a little bit of a
Speaker 1: cheap you have to mention that. But past you do
Speaker 1: what you it's our podcast, ours really. I do want
Speaker 1: to preface this by saying that this year has been
Speaker 1: pretty bad for me for movies. You know. It's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff I really liked, but very little
Speaker 1: I loved. I don't know what it was the deal, Like,
Speaker 1: I just was every time I put like a screener
Speaker 1: in that everyone's been recommending, I've just been disappointed. Um well,
Speaker 1: it's funny you would say that, because last night I
Speaker 1: wasn't joking when I texted you that I was watching
Speaker 1: The Shallows because I felt like I couldn't complete my
Speaker 1: list without seeing it. Because so many people had told
Speaker 1: me how good it was. I did that with Don't Breathe. Oh,
Speaker 1: I did like don't Breathe. But but then see, the
Speaker 1: whole thing about like the shallows are don't Breathe is
Speaker 1: that you're not expecting them to be good, and then
Speaker 1: when you discover them, you feel awesome. And since everyone
Speaker 1: had told me how awesome the Shallows was, I was
Speaker 1: a little disappointed. So I did not make my top
Speaker 1: So it did not make five. No, I'm sorry to say,
Speaker 1: but it was very entertaining. But yes, so top five.
Speaker 1: Do you want to do your hoorable mentions? First? First? Oh? Okay, Well, um,
Speaker 1: I suspect we we tend to agree more than we disagree.
Speaker 1: I think, um my top five plus honorable mentions list
Speaker 1: is very electic. The honorable mentions that didn't quite make
Speaker 1: the list were I love certain genre films like Captain America.
Speaker 1: Civil War I thought was so fantastic and coming on
Speaker 1: the heels of Batman versus Superman fantastic, Civil War fantastic. Well,
Speaker 1: now you're giving away my top five. Um. I thought
Speaker 1: it showed how you could actually make two superheroes that
Speaker 1: you care about fight against each other and have real
Speaker 1: stakes and have them both be right and both be wrong,
Speaker 1: and I I thought it was great. I loved to Rival. Um.
Speaker 1: I loved The Conjuring too, although there was a point
Speaker 1: in that movie where I literally said to my friend,
Speaker 1: why do I do this to myself? You have nightmares?
Speaker 1: I'm freaking out. And then to feel Good movies that
Speaker 1: that almost made the top five were Lying and Hidden Figures. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I loved both of them, just sobbed at both of them.
Speaker 1: They definitely win my Ugly cry Face of the Year
Speaker 1: Award movies. But my top five is very colectic, obviously
Speaker 1: when I get into it yet, oh no, let me
Speaker 1: throw out my honorable motion. Only one of those is online,
Speaker 1: which is lyon, hugely emotional, amazing story. I've got Birth
Speaker 1: of a Nation on here. It's taken some knocks, I
Speaker 1: think from some snobby critics. Frankly sorry, but you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's just like a thunderbolt out of Nate
Speaker 1: Parker's soul in a in a very great movie. Um.
Speaker 1: I was pleasantly surprised by how good that movie was.
Speaker 1: I did not expect it to be that good. I
Speaker 1: have fences, It's basically the play understood, but when your subject,
Speaker 1: when your source material is that powerful, it's going to
Speaker 1: transcend into the film space. And it did for me.
Speaker 1: I mean, it blew me away. Those performances are fantastic.
Speaker 1: I don't think fire See the documentary necessarily works as
Speaker 1: a work of art. By the way, before I get
Speaker 1: into this one, that's a longer conversation. I think it's
Speaker 1: juxtaposition of of kind of the ordinary things happening on
Speaker 1: this island while the migrant crisis is happening, with what's
Speaker 1: happening with the migrant crisis. I don't think that works artistically,
Speaker 1: but nevertheless, I think it's important to see a movie
Speaker 1: like that to know what the hell is going on
Speaker 1: in the middle of the Mediterranean. It's pretty riveting for
Speaker 1: that jungle book, right, you're a big Jungle Book fan.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm a I'm a big fan of what
Speaker 1: it portends for the business. Because, uh, they pulled it out,
Speaker 1: pulled it off of the plum. I mean it's like
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, if that's the future. I believe
Speaker 1: they weren't in a jungle something. I know it's supposed
Speaker 1: to be all c g I and a warehouse in
Speaker 1: downtown Los Angeles is insane. I've got rogue one. I
Speaker 1: have not seen Roquine well, no spoilers, but it's it's
Speaker 1: everything that everyone seemed to think the Force awakens. I
Speaker 1: was not. It was a It was pure confection. This
Speaker 1: is the first time I've ever felt steaks in a
Speaker 1: Star Wars and I'm not a big Star Wars fan,
Speaker 1: by the way, So take take that with for whatever
Speaker 1: you need. You know how I love in Star Wars?
Speaker 1: Is that Mr spot guy. I'm just I'm just here
Speaker 1: to piss off some narrators, of which I am one,
Speaker 1: So I did it. They didn't even say that. I
Speaker 1: love his scenes with Gandalf. And my last one is
Speaker 1: a Sausage Party. Your favorite movie of the year, My
Speaker 1: favorite movie the year's Passengers? What do you mean these
Speaker 1: are the two movies I think we disagree on. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: Passengers certainly, I just look, my brain was at the
Speaker 1: door for that one. But Sage Party, I I feel
Speaker 1: Seth Romans like our our great theologian. Uh look, Sausage
Speaker 1: Party was fun, it had some Really, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's nearly as clever as it thinks it is. I
Speaker 1: don't think it thinks it's clever. I think. I think
Speaker 1: it's just Jerry proud of itself when it has things like, oh,
Speaker 1: the crackers don't get along with the Grits, get it,
Speaker 1: and the bagel sounds like necessarily, I think it's just like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I hear what you're saying, and I understand
Speaker 1: why you have that perspective, But I actually I don't
Speaker 1: think that it's like going for that reaction personally. I
Speaker 1: literally think it's stone people in the room coming up
Speaker 1: with jokes together. It's very funny. So um, the opening
Speaker 1: number is fantastic. Um. I hate that it sort of
Speaker 1: sells itself out at the end. I don't want to
Speaker 1: do spoilers, but it basically throws away the whole premise
Speaker 1: and and goes for a cheap joke, which kind of
Speaker 1: bummed me out. But look at what there are worse
Speaker 1: ways to spend what was it, ninety minutes something like that?
Speaker 1: Number five. I don't know that I necessarily ranked these.
Speaker 1: I guess I kind of do it. I think I could. Um,
Speaker 1: number five would be the Lobster. I loved this movie,
Speaker 1: and you know, I have avoided seeing Dog Tooth because
Speaker 1: the description sounded so unpleasant. And now that I get
Speaker 1: this guy's style, I think I have to go back
Speaker 1: and see it. I thought Colin Farrell was fantastic. I
Speaker 1: think Olivia Coleman has the best line of the year
Speaker 1: as the hotel manager who says, um, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: if you're having trouble in your relationship, will assign you children.
Speaker 1: That always helps. I just and I wish that the
Speaker 1: screenplay was getting a little more love. I know that
Speaker 1: there it did get. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's going
Speaker 1: to be a nominee. By the way play, I really do.
Speaker 1: I think that Branch would be one to to spark
Speaker 1: to it. It's it is a good movie. It's got
Speaker 1: like it owes a lot to Ionesco. Yeah, which is strange.
Speaker 1: I never like I was going to ask, which is
Speaker 1: you know, on paper, this movie is nothing I thought
Speaker 1: I would like. And I went to see it because
Speaker 1: I really like Colin barrel. Um. It also, you know
Speaker 1: has my trigger in its you know what that is? Animals? Well,
Speaker 1: a specific animal. Yeah, um, and yet it was important
Speaker 1: to the story and um, that's a brutal moment. Yeah
Speaker 1: it is. But but I would say necessary, yeah, yeah, Um. No,
Speaker 1: I thought it thought it was a fantastic movie. My
Speaker 1: number five. You were talking about genre movies green Room.
Speaker 1: I did see Green Room. I love Jeremy Selnier. I
Speaker 1: think he's an amazing filmmaker. Filmmaker. I mean he's made
Speaker 1: two phone well, he's made three films. The first one
Speaker 1: is really and he would admit this just kind of
Speaker 1: throw away, but Blue ruin in this, I mean he's
Speaker 1: mastered show don't tell. He's great with visual storytelling, uh
Speaker 1: it is. You know, he's really great with geography, which
Speaker 1: is crucial for a movie like this, and ten Cleverfield Lane.
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm from that area too, you know,
Speaker 1: really Portland area, so I have to say, like they
Speaker 1: nailed it. Yeah. I told Patrick Stewart that when I
Speaker 1: when we did our studio last year, because he you know,
Speaker 1: I know, he interviewed him earlier this year for that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's I literally would line up for anything
Speaker 1: this guy makes because I just love the way he
Speaker 1: makes movies. And by the way, I mean, I was
Speaker 1: looking at the Critics Circuit and the Best Actor winners.
Speaker 1: Casey Affleck is nominating naturally, and only two other people
Speaker 1: have won Critics Awards for Best Actor. Adam Patterson and
Speaker 1: Denzel Washington, Adam Patterson, Adam, I mean Adam drivers he
Speaker 1: before Patterson. Uh, and so I was Patterson believe in
Speaker 1: is Adam Patterson. I just want to throw it out
Speaker 1: to some in TRIPID group. I think Anton Yelchin is
Speaker 1: great in this movie is Rest in Peace. I honestly
Speaker 1: think it's probably his best performance. He really makes you
Speaker 1: believe the terror of the of the situation and that
Speaker 1: that's no, that's no short order. So anyway, green Room
Speaker 1: is my number five. What's your number four? Well, continuing
Speaker 1: the animal theme, it's Zootopia. Yes, animation made it. This
Speaker 1: movie is so see this is this is where I
Speaker 1: would say, like Sausage Party thinks it's being subversive because
Speaker 1: it has like a talking douche, But Zootopia is actually okay.
Speaker 1: But but why does the douchetop like it's supposed to
Speaker 1: be talking food and then suddenly toilet paper and a
Speaker 1: douche can don't get me started, You've got me started. Douches?
Speaker 1: And supermarkets? Is it? Everything in a supermarket is live?
Speaker 1: Is that the premise? I don't know, because sometimes it's food,
Speaker 1: and then sometimes it's inanimate objects, and then sometimes it's
Speaker 1: a piece of corn. Then it's kernels of corn, like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna write a whole He thought really hard about
Speaker 1: all this, harder than I think they wanted you to think.
Speaker 1: But z Utopia is so subversive, so clever. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's basically, uh, you know, a hundred million dollar Disney
Speaker 1: animated movie about racism, and it done so it's so clever,
Speaker 1: and it's so funny, and it made a lot of money,
Speaker 1: made a lot of money. It's also just beautiful to
Speaker 1: look at. It's it's horrible. I haven't seen it since
Speaker 1: it came out. I've been meaning to revisit. Do I
Speaker 1: do like it quite a bit? Yeah, No, it's it's
Speaker 1: I it's another one that I would pitch as a
Speaker 1: screenplay nomination. Yeah. I think it's in the hunt, especially
Speaker 1: with those scripts that fell out of the original category recently.
Speaker 1: And it's been a great year for animated movies. I mean,
Speaker 1: I really like Milana, I liked Finding Dori, but like,
Speaker 1: I just think Utopia is just like Heads and Tails
Speaker 1: above everything else. My number four and if we get
Speaker 1: I have a feeling we might be getting into this
Speaker 1: place where I mentioned a movie that's still to come
Speaker 1: on your list. It feel free to say as little
Speaker 1: as possib until until you get to it. My number
Speaker 1: four is Moonlight Barry Jenkins. Uh. It's obviously the year's
Speaker 1: critical favorite, and I think there's a there's a definite
Speaker 1: reason for that, which is this guy has a definitive,
Speaker 1: clear vision, point of view, voice, and it ties so
Speaker 1: interestingly with socio politics of today, identity politics certainly. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it's incredible. I've said this before that he was
Speaker 1: able to draw out the same spirit of of of
Speaker 1: a character and three different actors the way he does.
Speaker 1: And I watched it again last week. It's just a
Speaker 1: powerful movie. It looks amazing, the editing is amazing, and
Speaker 1: it's got the best I think ensemble performance over the year.
Speaker 1: Everyone is so organic to the piece. And that's my
Speaker 1: number four, Moonlight. Um. I will just add to that
Speaker 1: mi herschel Ali, of course, Michel Ali. Of course, it's
Speaker 1: a charmer, that guy. He definitely is. Uh. My number
Speaker 1: three is number four. Um, My number three is Moonlight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: perfect Um. And this is hard because, like I said,
Speaker 1: I did not rank these and so I'm sort of
Speaker 1: looking at them on the fly. I sort of have
Speaker 1: a three way tie for number one. Um, but all uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm actually a little surprised that you're number
Speaker 1: four choice because I thought it was far and away
Speaker 1: your favorite movie of the year. It was up there
Speaker 1: for a while. Things just sift around when you start
Speaker 1: to revisit things. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I mean it's all
Speaker 1: of these movies are for me, the cream of the
Speaker 1: crop in a year that wasn't so great. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I could use it tomorrow. Moonlight might be not
Speaker 1: my number one choice. Yeah, I was gonna say, actually,
Speaker 1: these five I could definitely if we did this last
Speaker 1: week or a week from now, like they might be
Speaker 1: a different ranking. Yeah. For me, it's these it's these
Speaker 1: top three that are really all number one for me.
Speaker 1: But um, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw a bit of
Speaker 1: a wild card in with my number one. That's all
Speaker 1: you're gonna say about Moonlight? I mean, one more is
Speaker 1: there to say? What else can you be? Like I
Speaker 1: said last week, like, you know, do we even like
Speaker 1: I feel like we shouldn't even put Moonlight in La
Speaker 1: La Land on our list because they're so obvious. We
Speaker 1: should open up those spaces to other movies. But you know,
Speaker 1: I remember David Fincher said about the castine of Ben
Speaker 1: Affleck and Gone Girl. Just because it's the obvious choice
Speaker 1: doesn't make it the wrong choice. And uh, yeah it's
Speaker 1: it's every performance in that movie is perfect, you know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's just I've used up all my superlatatives.
Speaker 1: You know what else can we say superlatatives? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Did I make a word of man? I just put
Speaker 1: on my pants and yeah, uh number three for me.
Speaker 1: A lot of great documentaries this year. I mentioned Fire
Speaker 1: at See Obviously O J O J Made in America
Speaker 1: is amazing. Not a movie. The whole podcast could be
Speaker 1: done about that. I don't have strong feelings about it.
Speaker 1: But I don't have strong feelings, but I certainly understand
Speaker 1: the people who have strong feelings that it's not a
Speaker 1: movie that I'll say that. But I think the best
Speaker 1: of them is Winer. Yeah, weener Is A is a
Speaker 1: great documentary. I I would lean more towards their teenth
Speaker 1: because it's just so powerful and timely and relevant. But Yeah,
Speaker 1: weener Is it's pretty impressive talk about the socio politics.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so zegeist because it's about flawed heroes.
Speaker 1: I've said this before and just media obsession with titillation
Speaker 1: and letting that get in the way of analyzing substance.
Speaker 1: I mean, is there another movie that could be more
Speaker 1: sum up this year than that? You know? And the fact,
Speaker 1: like you said, that they got the access that they did.
Speaker 1: I think after the fact, he wishes they didn't have
Speaker 1: that access, but I'm glad that they did because it's
Speaker 1: such a revealing portrait. It is just frailty really and uh,
Speaker 1: it's been one of the best movies of the year
Speaker 1: since I saw it, like way back in the spring,
Speaker 1: and it's my number three, and you know, I think
Speaker 1: it would still be a great movie even even if
Speaker 1: it wasn't for some of that got you stuff that
Speaker 1: they got, you know, I mean they did again, the
Speaker 1: access they got is just you look back on that
Speaker 1: and you're like, who, okay this, but thank god they
Speaker 1: did you number two? Um la la land. I mean again,
Speaker 1: what more is there to say? It's singing for us
Speaker 1: nobody wants, although I was doing that in the car
Speaker 1: on the way here this morning. Yes, well, you know
Speaker 1: this is funny. We may have discussed this before, but
Speaker 1: my favorite songs are not even in the morning for
Speaker 1: best song. Um I was singing another day of sun, yes,
Speaker 1: and uh and the start of fires. That one actually
Speaker 1: is eligible phenomination. But yeah, that's a very very catchy tune.
Speaker 1: I mean, perfectly cast. Damien Chazelle is just what more
Speaker 1: is there to say? I mean, you know, Whiplash was
Speaker 1: my favorite movie of Oh yeah, well that was the
Speaker 1: year of the compound word, and it was Whip Last Night,
Speaker 1: Crawler and Birdman were my three favorite movies. But there
Speaker 1: was just you know, this guy knows how to end
Speaker 1: a movie. He's really talented and he uh more importantly,
Speaker 1: he's very confident and that shows like it's it makes
Speaker 1: me mad. Yeah, I know, because very humble. He is
Speaker 1: thirty one year. He's one of the nicest guys you'll
Speaker 1: talk to. Uh you know, hopefully he stays that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you never know what this business does to people. One
Speaker 1: of these days, Jacob Trompley is just going to be
Speaker 1: the biggest bastard. Uh. If Damian Chisel wins Best Director,
Speaker 1: he'll be the youngest Best Director winner ever. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I mean, like, very deserving, kind of hard to argue with.
Speaker 1: He he isn't you know, he's a wonderin as they say,
Speaker 1: I was going to say unfun terrible, but I've mispronouced
Speaker 1: a word to day. My number two is Manchester by
Speaker 1: the Sea Kenneth Lanagan. I keep using the word immaculate
Speaker 1: to describe it because it's really just perfectly tuned. I
Speaker 1: just watched it again last night. Um, he's I think
Speaker 1: our foremost humanist and that comes out, you know, wonderfully
Speaker 1: in the film. As I said at Casey Affleck has
Speaker 1: dominated the critics circuit for acting, and I think it's
Speaker 1: because it's an amazing performance, an amazingly internalized performance. There's
Speaker 1: so much going on with him. He's a great act
Speaker 1: he really is. Yeah, did you see No. I guess
Speaker 1: I have to catch up to it. I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: I bet he want a lot of fans. He was
Speaker 1: really fantastic and and I was, I guess, not surprised
Speaker 1: at how funny he was, but surprised that they gave
Speaker 1: him guy, especially when you get him and Launergan together,
Speaker 1: Like I saw them both at this like Amazon thing
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, and I was like, Launergan's hilarious.
Speaker 1: I was like, can you get I was like, Kenny,
Speaker 1: can you go like write a sketch for him? On
Speaker 1: SNL that'd be great, and he's like, I did have
Speaker 1: an idea broad comedy sketches. Well, I mean, I bet
Speaker 1: he could deliver something interesting. It is very funny stuff,
Speaker 1: and there is funny human stuff, absolutely, and they want
Speaker 1: to make sure people point that out too, because I've
Speaker 1: certainly used the term melancholy a lot and they're like,
Speaker 1: stop saying that. And it's a freaking downer man. But
Speaker 1: there's definitely a lot of Kenny Lawnergan humor, including when
Speaker 1: he shows up as a cameo. You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1: I think they're leaning into the sadness of it now
Speaker 1: because in Casey athlex monologue, it's night life. He kept
Speaker 1: stressing how depressing the movie, but don't really yeah, And
Speaker 1: I was like, thank you for just being frank. Um
Speaker 1: interesting notes from the Midwest. My mom called me last
Speaker 1: night to say she had seen Manchester by the Sea
Speaker 1: because she read in Parade magazine that Casey Afflect would
Speaker 1: get an Oscar nomination and she was just like, kind
Speaker 1: of surprised at how sad it was. Well, be warned,
Speaker 1: it is a sad movie. What's your number? One? Um,
Speaker 1: I might be a surprise to everyone but you Captain Fantastic.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I forgot that I ruined it earlier. You did.
Speaker 1: You ruin well when I said Captain Fantastic Civil War,
Speaker 1: you said, don't win my list, and then I forgot
Speaker 1: that it was on your list when you said that,
Speaker 1: that's okay, we'll fix it in post um again. Moonlight
Speaker 1: La La Land and Captain Fantastic. Every day you could,
Speaker 1: you could change for my favorite, but I feel like
Speaker 1: Moonlight La La Land have probably gotten enough love. I
Speaker 1: am so happy that Captain Fantastic is getting attention. For
Speaker 1: Vigo Mortenson, I'm so thrilled he got the Golden Globe
Speaker 1: nomination in the SAG nomination and in the correct category,
Speaker 1: and Golden Globes by the way, and the drama category.
Speaker 1: And I really hope Matt Ross's script get some recognition. Um,
Speaker 1: this is such an original, weird, funny, sad, uplifting sweet
Speaker 1: movie times. Have you seen it only twice? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: know I saw when, you know, right before it first
Speaker 1: came out, and then uh, fairly recently, just so he
Speaker 1: didn't see it a dance or anything like that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know what's funny, Matt Ross was one of
Speaker 1: our directors to watch this year in January and he
Speaker 1: came to our event and I saw him in Palm
Speaker 1: Springs and I was like, oh, man, I love that actor.
Speaker 1: You know, he's great and everything. And I went up
Speaker 1: and started talking to him and then um it was
Speaker 1: his birthday, no less, and then they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna get started for the directors to watch.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, are you presenting to someone
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh no, I'm one of the directors.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, I'm a sure
Speaker 1: in that that. I kind of hoped somebody would throw
Speaker 1: a bone to this year's Franklin. Frank clinch Ella how
Speaker 1: I'm so happy I got him ensemble nomination because Catherine Hahn,
Speaker 1: Steve's on Franklin Angela is It, and Owd who plays
Speaker 1: his wife, Oh my gosh, I mean like, and these
Speaker 1: kids who are for a while, I really thought maybe
Speaker 1: some of them will relate it because they look so
Speaker 1: much alike. It's just I, you know, I am best
Speaker 1: actor is I think probably down to Denzel and Casey,
Speaker 1: who are both very deserving, But I would love to
Speaker 1: see Nigo. Morton's video continues to just get in there
Speaker 1: for movies like this, because I think the movie. You know,
Speaker 1: the problem is are people seeing the movie, but if
Speaker 1: you see the movie, it's it's kind of hard to
Speaker 1: not vote for him. Yeah. I know a lot of
Speaker 1: hfp A people saw it late and they all were like, wow,
Speaker 1: I liked this movie a lot, and then sure enough.
Speaker 1: Well that's the advantage it has is that you know,
Speaker 1: they got screeners out early. It came out early in
Speaker 1: the year. I think that's why it helped do really
Speaker 1: well with seg Um. Yeah. I just, I just I
Speaker 1: think it's a fantastic movie. It's my turn, alright, go
Speaker 1: My number one movie is Independence Day Resurgence. Oh stop.
Speaker 1: I think this movie has something to say about the
Speaker 1: horror that's about to be inflicted on this planet based
Speaker 1: on what's happened in this selection. God god, I was like,
Speaker 1: I was pretty sure, but I'm glad I got you.
Speaker 1: Oh of course you hadn't done La La Land yet, Okay.
Speaker 1: I mean, plain and simple, I responded to a story
Speaker 1: about people still daring to dream. I mean it's really
Speaker 1: as simple as that. Thematically speaking, Uh, it's you know,
Speaker 1: holding off pragmatism and stability, all of that stuff really resonates.
Speaker 1: And as we said when you were speaking about it,
Speaker 1: he is hugely talented, Damien, he is hugely con I
Speaker 1: mean it's like this, it's this expressionist musical, which is
Speaker 1: really bold to just dive into something like that. Because
Speaker 1: Scorsese he didn't bother with New York, New York for
Speaker 1: a couple of years. You know, he got a lot
Speaker 1: of things under his belt. But to just come out
Speaker 1: with your second it is a second film, right, it
Speaker 1: might be a third guy in Aline on a Park
Speaker 1: Pass that was his Harvard thesis film. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it even got released, Harvard Thesis film. Interesting term. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's I mean, he's just what can you say? What again?
Speaker 1: What else can you say about this movie other than
Speaker 1: people that are like ganging up on it now when
Speaker 1: I don't know what this thing is? People people end
Speaker 1: up responding to a movie's award season footprint. They're not
Speaker 1: responding to the movie anymore. Suddenly, Argo is a piece
Speaker 1: of ship because it's gonna beat Lincoln, right, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't understand that I've been wanting to curse this whole time.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it comes out of me. Sometimes it comes out
Speaker 1: and that just bothers me like people are responding to
Speaker 1: a response at that point, they're not really responding to
Speaker 1: the movie. And I appreciate the people that have very
Speaker 1: real criticisms of this movie, and I'll listen to them
Speaker 1: and hear them out. But this time of year, these
Speaker 1: dog piles start to happen and it just drives me bersert. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course it's a response to the the backlash, and
Speaker 1: then there's the backlash again, the backlash, and yeah, you
Speaker 1: just have to tune that all out, Like La La
Speaker 1: Land is where it is because people genuinely love it,
Speaker 1: and there was a movie. Oh I won't go down
Speaker 1: that road. I was just gonna say, like, there's some
Speaker 1: movies that like I don't get and then I can't
Speaker 1: deny that I'm seeing other people have a genuine response
Speaker 1: to it, you know, So why people want to deny it?
Speaker 1: Like maybe it's the hip thing to do to hate
Speaker 1: on the thing that everyone loves. But you know, I
Speaker 1: well a lot of times things break down, like just
Speaker 1: this is a very different movie than say, Manchester by
Speaker 1: the Sea, but that's my number one and number two movies.
Speaker 1: So look, I contain multitudes people. Chris is a very
Speaker 1: calm person. Did you actually see Independence A Resurgence? The
Speaker 1: worst movie I saw this year? Yes, I was profoundly disgusted,
Speaker 1: but that's a whole other things. Yeah, anyway, that's our
Speaker 1: top five so this week. So I think the by
Speaker 1: the average mean probably La La Land. Well, let's see
Speaker 1: you I had. We both had Moonlight and La La Land.
Speaker 1: Those were the two. So we both had Lion on
Speaker 1: our honorable mentions. That's right. And we both love Sausage Party.
Speaker 1: I don't hate Sausage Party. There's some very funny stuff
Speaker 1: in it. This week I'm talking to Violet Davis speaking
Speaker 1: earlier offenses, who is just show stopping in the movie.
Speaker 1: So uh and and we get into a lot of
Speaker 1: interesting stuff. Suicide Squad talk about Soderbergh, a bunch of
Speaker 1: different things to stick around for that. Hey, pop, I
Speaker 1: ask you a question. How come youily never liked me
Speaker 1: like you? What law is there? Say? I got to
Speaker 1: like you? All right? Then? Don't you eat every day?
Speaker 1: Answer me? When I talk to you? Don't you eat
Speaker 1: every day? As long as you're in my house? You
Speaker 1: put a sir on the end of it. When you
Speaker 1: talk to me, you eat every day? That got a
Speaker 1: roof over your head and got closed on your back.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is because of you? Hell,
Speaker 1: I know it's because of me. But why do you
Speaker 1: think that is because you're like me? Like you? I
Speaker 1: go out of here every morning, I bust my butt
Speaker 1: because I like you. You're about the biggest fool ever
Speaker 1: sult A man is supposed to take care of his family.
Speaker 1: You're living my house for your belly, with my food.
Speaker 1: Put you're behind on my bed. Because you're my son.
Speaker 1: It's my duty to take care of you. I owe
Speaker 1: a responsibility to you. I ain't got to like you now.
Speaker 1: I don't give you everything I got to give you.
Speaker 1: I give you your life. Me and your mama worked
Speaker 1: that out between us, unlike in your black ass wasn't
Speaker 1: part of the bargain. Now, don't you go through life
Speaker 1: in about whether somebody like you or not. You best
Speaker 1: be making sure that they're doing right by you. You
Speaker 1: understand what I'm saying. Everything that boy do he do
Speaker 1: for you. It's not easy for me to admit that
Speaker 1: I've been standing in the safe place for eighteen years.
Speaker 1: I haven't den in with you. I get eighteen years
Speaker 1: of my life to stand in the Saint w Is
Speaker 1: you Welcome back everyone. I'm here with the lovely Viola Davis,
Speaker 1: star of Denzel Washington's Fences. Thank you for coming in.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thank you, I should say, Star of
Speaker 1: August Wilson's Fences by way of Denzel Washington. Right. UM,
Speaker 1: I want to start, if you'll permit me, by flirting
Speaker 1: with you just briefly. I find your eyes to be
Speaker 1: very stunning, and I've thought that for a long time.
Speaker 1: I think that the way you convey emotion and hide
Speaker 1: emotion and betray emotion. I guess what I'm saying is
Speaker 1: I think your eyes have been great tools for you
Speaker 1: as an actress. And uh, I always wanted to say
Speaker 1: that to you. Thank you well, I accepted and I
Speaker 1: appreciate it. I want to start by talking about something
Speaker 1: called trust, which keeps popping up with this film. I've
Speaker 1: noticed you guys talk about that a lot, and and
Speaker 1: how Denzel asked you guys to trust him when it
Speaker 1: came to this project. And I want to talk about
Speaker 1: the value of that as an actress. Uh. What why
Speaker 1: is it so valuable on a project like Fences, where
Speaker 1: you are, you know, dealing with emotionally volatile material and
Speaker 1: you go to some really intense places. Why is it
Speaker 1: so important on a film like this, Well, it's everything
Speaker 1: that you just mentioned is going to those intense places
Speaker 1: and having four page monologues and that takes you to
Speaker 1: places that are extraordinarily vulnerable. That, Um, it's the trusting
Speaker 1: yourself to to be able to go there and trusting
Speaker 1: your work, but it's also trusting the director is going
Speaker 1: to have your best interests at heart. A lot of
Speaker 1: times you have to rectors who are more interested in
Speaker 1: the shot. They're more interested in just other aspects of
Speaker 1: the film other than your performance, and you don't know
Speaker 1: what they're seeing. You know, when they're at video village
Speaker 1: and they're looking at playback, you want to trust that
Speaker 1: what they're looking at is something that at the end
Speaker 1: of the day you're gonna be proud of and you're
Speaker 1: gonna believe. Um. And the thing about Denzel and I
Speaker 1: think it is because he is a great actor. He
Speaker 1: knows the words that are going to unlock the thing
Speaker 1: that's holding you back, and then he knows when to
Speaker 1: step away and to let you fly. A lot of
Speaker 1: people just don't know that because they just they don't
Speaker 1: even know acting as a process and they're directing you.
Speaker 1: He understood that, and that's where the trust comes in,
Speaker 1: is knowing what to say no one, when to say it,
Speaker 1: knowing when to step back, knowing when not to have
Speaker 1: you drive your performance into the wall. Um. Because he
Speaker 1: has such a a truth gauge, he knows when whatever
Speaker 1: you're doing is bull crap um, and he respects August's words. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get out of the way. Yeah. Well, you
Speaker 1: mentioned truth there, and there's an interesting point I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about, which is, uh, you know, wrangling with
Speaker 1: this material on the stage versus wrangling with it on
Speaker 1: a film. Denzel's come at this question by saying that
Speaker 1: you know truth is truth and the camera will catch
Speaker 1: you lying, which is very wise. But still, do you
Speaker 1: find yourself processing it at all differently in the two
Speaker 1: different environments, and and how you kind of absorb it
Speaker 1: and then reflect it back out as performance. Is any
Speaker 1: of that differ? Well, it is different because because you
Speaker 1: always have to be aware that you're not doing it
Speaker 1: in an audience of twelve people. So it's not even
Speaker 1: about the level of your voice. It's about rejecting emotion
Speaker 1: that you don't. You don't have to project it as hard.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, it's a really
Speaker 1: hard question. People are asking me that constantly because you
Speaker 1: always have to be grounded in truth, even on stage.
Speaker 1: It just has to be you gotta believe you're coming
Speaker 1: from a place of truthfulness, that you're talking, that you're listening, um,
Speaker 1: that you're engaged. Listen August wrote a four four page monologue.
Speaker 1: One of the monologues is eleven page. Is actually one
Speaker 1: of Troyes. It's got to go on for eleven pages.
Speaker 1: So when that's happening, that's indicative of something emotionally emotional happening.
Speaker 1: And whatever emotionally is happening with a four page monologue
Speaker 1: or eleven page monologue is not understated. It's you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes with film, I think people just feel like you've
Speaker 1: gotta be understated, you've gotta be small. And so then
Speaker 1: you go to movies and you see people actually acting small.
Speaker 1: They're not really acting the moment, they were just acting small, um.
Speaker 1: Whereas there's a lot of speeches and a lot of
Speaker 1: moments not speeches, but but scenes in this movie where
Speaker 1: it just can't be small. That whatever is happening is
Speaker 1: highly traumatic that it's not about vanity, it's not about
Speaker 1: holding back. It's about the pain that comes from the
Speaker 1: surprises of life that make you feel like you are
Speaker 1: going to die and you are fighting for your life.
Speaker 1: The steaks are really, really high, and in those moments,
Speaker 1: you can't think about being small. You've got to think
Speaker 1: about playing the truth of the scene. You gotta think
Speaker 1: about being that feral dog that all of a sudden
Speaker 1: is backed into the corner by a dog catcher who
Speaker 1: wants to euthanize them. And how are they going to act?
Speaker 1: They're gonna claw, Oh, they're gonna fight back, They're gonna
Speaker 1: fight for their lives. It's that kind those kind of
Speaker 1: moments that you have to really step up to. And um,
Speaker 1: I think that And the reason why I'm mentioning that
Speaker 1: is I think that on the stage you really have
Speaker 1: to go for it, and on screen you gotta go
Speaker 1: for it. Well, you have different faculties to call on too,
Speaker 1: I guess. I mean, like I mentioned your eyes, you
Speaker 1: know that becomes a different tool to you when the
Speaker 1: camera's right here and how you kind of convey not
Speaker 1: that you're like telling your eyes to act well, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like how the eyes convey the emotion,
Speaker 1: uh and translate things that it becomes a unique tool
Speaker 1: for you versus on the stage where the guy in
Speaker 1: the back row can see your eyes, but the same
Speaker 1: things may be happening, they just can't see it. It's alchemical,
Speaker 1: do you know? Absolutely? Um? You started, uh, I believe
Speaker 1: you're you know, your early stage career, you worked on
Speaker 1: a number of August work and but since this is
Speaker 1: the one that limbs so large, you know, so where
Speaker 1: you just really eager to do that one eventually? Is
Speaker 1: that a part that you always just wanted to sink into.
Speaker 1: I want to sink into any part that's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, that was one of them. I personally
Speaker 1: loved all the August Wilson roles that I've gotten Tanyaan
Speaker 1: King headily the second you know, Vera and seven Guitars,
Speaker 1: Maddie and Joe Turners coming gone. I thought that they
Speaker 1: were all great, and um, yeah, I'm always looking for
Speaker 1: a great narrative. The thing that I love about Rose
Speaker 1: is her journey is complete. It is a complete journey.
Speaker 1: When you meet her, she's in the background, you know,
Speaker 1: probably not knowing that she just is filling that role
Speaker 1: in the background, but someone who is just trying to
Speaker 1: make her life work, just trying to keep her family together.
Speaker 1: That's where the center of her life exists. That her purpose,
Speaker 1: that is how she matters. That's how you introduced to her.
Speaker 1: And then this traumatic thing happens, and you see her pain,
Speaker 1: You see her go through her pain, you see it,
Speaker 1: you see her articulated perfectly, and then the and and
Speaker 1: in the end you see how she redeems it, and
Speaker 1: you ultimately see forgiveness and accountability. That to me is
Speaker 1: a complete journey. Um, and any actor wants that, Any
Speaker 1: actor wants that. Now, being such a student of his work,
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think of how he wrote women.
Speaker 1: And you know, certainly specifically as it pertains defenses, but
Speaker 1: just in general, how well do you think Augus Wilson
Speaker 1: got into the mindset of women in the parts that
Speaker 1: he wrote beautifully? And it's so funny because so many
Speaker 1: of his plays are male driven, far more male characters
Speaker 1: than female characters. But when the female character did step
Speaker 1: into the narrative, she stepped in, she stepped in with
Speaker 1: great insight. Um. What I love about August is none
Speaker 1: of his women for me feel like they're just a device.
Speaker 1: They all have their own voice. I mean with Tanya,
Speaker 1: you just all in King Headley the second you understood
Speaker 1: what it meant for a woman in the eighties. That
Speaker 1: was a cycle in the eighties to bring a child
Speaker 1: into the world. Um living in poverty, living in low
Speaker 1: income housing, bringing a child into the world knowing that
Speaker 1: she's probably going to bury them by the age of seventeen.
Speaker 1: Um you understood that he for me, he captures their essence.
Speaker 1: He always said that he was I think writing I
Speaker 1: want to say, seven guitars, And as he was writing it,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden a woman stepped in and he
Speaker 1: was surprised. He was writing I guess wherever he writes
Speaker 1: in his room in Seattle, or and a woman stepped
Speaker 1: into the narrative and he was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: who is this? And the first thing she said was hey,
Speaker 1: and he was like hey, and she said I have
Speaker 1: something to say and he said okay. And I feel
Speaker 1: like that's where it always starts with an artist, is
Speaker 1: being open enough to allow another human being into a narrative.
Speaker 1: And when they come in there, you they absolutely demand
Speaker 1: their space. And if you're an artist, you want to
Speaker 1: give them a voice. And he had that need to
Speaker 1: give his women a voice. And I think I I
Speaker 1: think he did it beautifully. We were talking about Denzel
Speaker 1: and and uh, how he knew exactly what to say
Speaker 1: to unlock things. I'm curious if if he has always
Speaker 1: had that as a filmmaker, because you go back to
Speaker 1: his directorial debut on Antoine Fisher, and he's got another
Speaker 1: film under his belt in the meantime and then now Fences. Uh,
Speaker 1: how has he changed in your estimation as a filmmaker
Speaker 1: and grown as as as a director since that time. Um?
Speaker 1: People ask me that all the time. I maybe because
Speaker 1: I'm a friend and a fan Denzel. I always thought
Speaker 1: he was great. I did. I always because he's a
Speaker 1: great actor. He knows the process of how to unlock UM.
Speaker 1: I felt that with him and Derek Luke and Antoine Fisher. Um,
Speaker 1: it's like that moment that he has in Glory where
Speaker 1: he's just uh, he's just standing in he rips his
Speaker 1: shirt off and he spits, and then you see the
Speaker 1: scars on his back, so you see that he's a
Speaker 1: rebellious slave and then he's being bitten in that and
Speaker 1: he's being beaten, and in that in that moment, he's
Speaker 1: choosing to be strong, to be rebellious, but to also
Speaker 1: be vulnerable. Anyone who can make a bold choice like
Speaker 1: that as an actor has a different head and has
Speaker 1: a different vision of truth that that doesn't fit stereotypes. Um,
Speaker 1: he knows how to come in and question why are
Speaker 1: you doing that? Are you doing it just because you
Speaker 1: feel like you need to be doing it? Because I
Speaker 1: don't believe it. What if I took you a step
Speaker 1: further and questioned you and a little bit to do
Speaker 1: something else that is probably more rooted in truth. It's
Speaker 1: a kind of truth that nobody wants to admit, nobody
Speaker 1: wants to see. But I'm gonna give you that one
Speaker 1: word that's gonna push you to do something different. What
Speaker 1: if you did A instead of B and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you see that actor going in a
Speaker 1: direction that they didn't expect, and ultimately the audiences and
Speaker 1: and and it's unexpected for them. I mean, listen, in
Speaker 1: the last scene in Fences, which I never got on
Speaker 1: the stage, I was doing the scene when we were
Speaker 1: rehearsing in Pittsburgh for the film, and he said, I
Speaker 1: want you to walk up to Cory and after he
Speaker 1: says he's not going to his father's funeral, I want
Speaker 1: you to slap him? Do you tell Do you tell
Speaker 1: him that? Ye? Okay? I said, really, he said, I
Speaker 1: want you to slap the piss out of him, and
Speaker 1: I was like, uh, okay. But then that was the
Speaker 1: start unlocking the scene for me in a way that
Speaker 1: was bold um and and in a way that I
Speaker 1: would not have chosen to do. Right. Well, he's amazing
Speaker 1: in the film as well. I mean, I think it
Speaker 1: might be his best work. And the just the work
Speaker 1: overall is is incendiary. I mean I I never saw
Speaker 1: the play. I read it some time ago, but you know,
Speaker 1: as great as the words are, seeing it on the
Speaker 1: page and then seeing an actor really tear into them,
Speaker 1: and then as a new father myself, this year added
Speaker 1: a whole thank you, added a whole definition to the
Speaker 1: whole thing. That's really really impactful. So, speaking of two
Speaker 1: thousand two with Antoine Fisher, that was a great year
Speaker 1: for you. I wanted to venture out a little bit.
Speaker 1: You had Far from Heaven and you had uh what
Speaker 1: was the other you had Solaris with with Soderberg and
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Soderberg actually, because you worked
Speaker 1: with him a couple of times traffic and out of Sight,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, since you worked with him so
Speaker 1: early in your film career, I'm curious what you learned
Speaker 1: from Steven Soderberg that you've kind of applied throughout your career,
Speaker 1: besides the fact that he's the most relaxed filmmaker I've
Speaker 1: ever met in my life. To the point where you
Speaker 1: think something's wrong with him, I'm serious. There was one
Speaker 1: point where I just wanted to shake him just to
Speaker 1: see how he would react. But I don't think it
Speaker 1: would have done anything. But um, I think that's the
Speaker 1: one thing that I have learned from him is when
Speaker 1: you work with Steven, it's easy. That's what it is.
Speaker 1: It's it's very easy. It's a it's it's so relaxed
Speaker 1: that what it forces you to do is to not
Speaker 1: put anything on your acting, to just come in and
Speaker 1: say the line. And you know, for an actor, you
Speaker 1: all actors always want to be seen, even if they
Speaker 1: have two lines in the back, they always feel like
Speaker 1: the scene is about them. You know, It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: someone else may have have all the lines, but I'm
Speaker 1: coming in delivering the pizza, about the pizza delivery so um.
Speaker 1: With him, everything is still and easy, and I believe
Speaker 1: that's a reflection of him. That's a probably reflected It's
Speaker 1: probably a better question for him of how he wants
Speaker 1: to see the world, of how he sees people. But
Speaker 1: I remember with out of Sight, I could never get
Speaker 1: a role in film. It just was not happening for
Speaker 1: me in film. And finally I got the audition for
Speaker 1: out of Sight and I was like, Okay, whatever, Steven Soderbergh, whatever.
Speaker 1: And I remember I had two lines for the audition.
Speaker 1: I think it was to two or three. That's it.
Speaker 1: And I said, I'm just going to say him that's it,
Speaker 1: because I'm at this point, I'm pissed that no one's
Speaker 1: hiring me. And I went to my agent's office in
Speaker 1: New York, Jay Michael Bloom, I said the lines and
Speaker 1: then I left. I was like, really crappy audition. When
Speaker 1: I found out I got the role, I was in Shock,
Speaker 1: playing Don Cheatle's girlfriend, and I remember asking Stephen So,
Speaker 1: I said, what was it that made you hire me?
Speaker 1: He said, it was a combination of my stillness and
Speaker 1: my simplicity, along with my wild hair that I had
Speaker 1: that he he saw it as a huge contradiction that
Speaker 1: made him lean in. It was interesting. The contrast of
Speaker 1: this kind of simple, straightforward woman with wild hair made
Speaker 1: him want to know more. I remember, back in the
Speaker 1: day I did my own hair. I used to braid
Speaker 1: it into my hair. I used to buy hair from
Speaker 1: this hair shop here in California. When I lived in
Speaker 1: New York. I would get at ups to my apartment
Speaker 1: in New York and I would braid so much hair
Speaker 1: into my head. I looked like Sly from Sly and
Speaker 1: the Family Stone back in the day. Um, he loved it.
Speaker 1: He thought it was interesting. So I think that's kind
Speaker 1: of reflection of him, that he's always looking for someone
Speaker 1: that just wakes him up. Yeah, it sounds like he's
Speaker 1: looking for something real. Um, you mentioned that time in
Speaker 1: your life. What was that a rough time for you emotionally?
Speaker 1: Since you were having trouble finding the work you wanted
Speaker 1: or what was going on there? Think, Well, I can't
Speaker 1: say it was. If I said it was a rough
Speaker 1: time emotionally, I would be lying just to get a story. Um,
Speaker 1: it was frustrating for me because I couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 1: I couldn't figure out what I was doing to not
Speaker 1: get the job. I would always get really really really close.
Speaker 1: It was always down to me and the actress, and
Speaker 1: me and two other actresses and um. And in the
Speaker 1: midst of trying to figure it out, I didn't know
Speaker 1: if I should change myself in a way. And I
Speaker 1: didn't want it to implode and make me feel like
Speaker 1: I'm all wrong, my look is all wrong. I wanted
Speaker 1: to remain who I was. I wanted to retain my voice.
Speaker 1: I wanted to work, and it just wasn't happening. Just
Speaker 1: wasn't You never had to sacrifice that philosophy at all,
Speaker 1: did you, or did you? I don't think that. I
Speaker 1: don't think that, certainly not now, because you live by
Speaker 1: that and you know, just your speech recently at the
Speaker 1: Critics Choice Awards, and you know very clear that that's
Speaker 1: what you live by. But you don't think you ever
Speaker 1: had to. I don't think that I have now. The
Speaker 1: people may have a different opinion about that, but I
Speaker 1: I've always felt like I did the best I could
Speaker 1: with what I was given, with the material that was
Speaker 1: given to me, with the characters that was given to me.
Speaker 1: Listening to help I could not approach a Bileen like
Speaker 1: she was a size too runway model. Um. She has
Speaker 1: described in a very specific way even in the book.
Speaker 1: So I had to give myself over to that. That's
Speaker 1: my job as an actor is to give myself over
Speaker 1: to the given circumstances of the character. So I've always
Speaker 1: felt like I was true to whatever I was given. Um,
Speaker 1: I've always felt that. I I don't feel like ever
Speaker 1: cow towd um. You know I don't. And how about
Speaker 1: Michael Mann. I'm always curious about actress who worked with
Speaker 1: Michael Man because he's so exacting and he you know,
Speaker 1: comes with such a fleshed out thing for you that, uh,
Speaker 1: it's fascinating. And you worked with him on Black Cats.
Speaker 1: So I'd love to talk about Michael and working with him. Um.
Speaker 1: Working with Michael was tough. It was in a good
Speaker 1: way in a bad way, and either both both in
Speaker 1: the sense. The good art was is his level of research,
Speaker 1: his level of preciseness is great because that's what you
Speaker 1: want as an actor. You don't ever want to just
Speaker 1: walk in and do your own thing and it's not
Speaker 1: based in any sort of truth. Um. So that was great.
Speaker 1: The other part that was not so much. Great is
Speaker 1: just feeling the restrictions of that for me anyway. UM,
Speaker 1: some actors are really do well with that. UM, I
Speaker 1: don't know if I was so successful with it. Um,
Speaker 1: you feel you need to play a little more. I
Speaker 1: feel like I need to put my stamp on it.
Speaker 1: That's how I feel. I feel like if you tell
Speaker 1: me anything, um about who someone should be based on
Speaker 1: their profession and based on the truth of what that
Speaker 1: profession is, I can tell you something about that person
Speaker 1: that absolutely belies all of that, that is absolutely antithetical
Speaker 1: towards all of that. You know, I can show you
Speaker 1: a cancer patient who's actually obese. I can show you
Speaker 1: a prostitute that actually does not wear a mini skirt
Speaker 1: and fish net stockings but no makeup, bad skin, dirty jeans,
Speaker 1: and some sneakers. UM that I wanted to put my
Speaker 1: own mark on it. That that because I feel that's
Speaker 1: what wakes people up. Because you talk about truth, that
Speaker 1: is truth. The truth is no one can be placed
Speaker 1: in a box. There are times when people can. There
Speaker 1: are there are examples of that, but there are about
Speaker 1: fifty million examples of that that can absolutely go against
Speaker 1: any stereotype that exists. Yeah, it's very indicative of how
Speaker 1: he works. I mean, I think he starts with what
Speaker 1: a person does for a living, dictates who that person is,
Speaker 1: and and that tends to uh yeah, like really guide
Speaker 1: his hand. But I can see how that could be
Speaker 1: troublesome for an actor who wants to add other dimensions
Speaker 1: that maybe that doesn't allow. I mean the beauty of
Speaker 1: what he does though, shooting in Hong Kong and Kowloon
Speaker 1: in places, I think he really captures the essence of
Speaker 1: his locations beautifully. I mean really beautifully this. I mean
Speaker 1: you could almost smell it, you could taste it. It's
Speaker 1: just palpable um. And I don't know how he does that,
Speaker 1: but he does it beautifully, I think. Um. But as
Speaker 1: far as mean as I was running to catch up
Speaker 1: and to keep up, I hear you. I want to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about Suicide Squad because obviously completely
Speaker 1: different film than Fences this year that you were in,
Speaker 1: and and it's you dipping your toe into the kind
Speaker 1: of big I P cinematic universe realm that very much
Speaker 1: dictates a lot of this business lately as an actor.
Speaker 1: How did you like being a part of a project
Speaker 1: like that, I mean, I and this is no disrespect
Speaker 1: to the artists involved with these films, but you can
Speaker 1: be such a cog and a wheel of such massive
Speaker 1: machinery that I imagine you feel like maybe you can't
Speaker 1: put your stamp on certain things. But I don't want
Speaker 1: to speak for you. How how how did that experience
Speaker 1: come off for you? I loved it, and I think
Speaker 1: that I loved it because I didn't think that deeply
Speaker 1: about it. I just thought it was just fun. Ah
Speaker 1: what was fun to me about Amanda Waller? And I
Speaker 1: think it's just Amanda Waller. I think if I played
Speaker 1: any other character in probably superhero Land, I probably would
Speaker 1: feel differently. But Amanda Waller, who is heavy pearls afro
Speaker 1: and has no superhuman strength but absolutely us puts fear
Speaker 1: in the heart of all of these villains that she's
Speaker 1: in charge of, appeals to me greatly. It really does.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love that she was from the
Speaker 1: Cabrini Green projects. There's something about her for me that
Speaker 1: that was familiar. You could bring maybe some of your
Speaker 1: absolutely that I could work I was working out the
Speaker 1: bad girl, but I was working out the bad girl,
Speaker 1: but from a space that for me is based somewhat
Speaker 1: in the read in reality. That's what I liked about it.
Speaker 1: I liked playing with that power. It's something so often
Speaker 1: not given to women. We don't. We don't give ourselves permission.
Speaker 1: No one else gives us permission to feel that kind
Speaker 1: of unapologetic badassery. We just don't. We're always apologizing for it,
Speaker 1: always feeling like it. Listen, people always asking me and
Speaker 1: how to get away with murder? You know, do you
Speaker 1: have a problem playing a character that's unlikable? And I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: why don't people have to like me? Why does it
Speaker 1: have to be a goal of being warm and fuzzy?
Speaker 1: And do you ask James did you ask James Gandalfinie
Speaker 1: that question for Anthony Hopkins or any character in the
Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese movie or actor in the Martin Scorsese movie.
Speaker 1: So that need, as soon as you pick up a
Speaker 1: role or a script define what's likable and warm and
Speaker 1: fuzzy is somehow can be a misstep on our part.
Speaker 1: So it's great to have a character where it becomes
Speaker 1: a great exercise on being on apologetically bad. I can
Speaker 1: tell you that funs like well, speaking of badastery Uh,
Speaker 1: that's a nice segue to my final question here. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about your Harriet Tubman project. Um. First
Speaker 1: of all, I'm a little behind on the news cycle.
Speaker 1: Have you got a director for that project yet? No
Speaker 1: zeroing in or you don't have to give me your
Speaker 1: short list, But I'm curious what kind of a director
Speaker 1: you think that material needs? Well, right now, right now,
Speaker 1: we're we need a script, right now, we need a
Speaker 1: script because it's it's really, Um, the narrative really is
Speaker 1: about the lab the later part of her years, when
Speaker 1: she's older, when she is part of the Cumby River Raid. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was reading about that recently. That sounds so awesome.
Speaker 1: A great way to meet her. Oh yeah, absolutely. I
Speaker 1: mean it's towards the end of her kind of the
Speaker 1: underground railroad. Um. The thing about Harriet Tubman is that
Speaker 1: it is it's like being Sherlock Holmes finding out who
Speaker 1: she is. You can imagine during that time in the
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds that you weren't so forthcoming with who you were.
Speaker 1: She was a spy after all, and she was operating
Speaker 1: in the height of slavery and then Jim Crow laws.
Speaker 1: It wasn't exactly a time where you can live your
Speaker 1: authentic life and just be who you are and be
Speaker 1: candid and open. So finding out what is her center
Speaker 1: and what is her motivation and who she is in private,
Speaker 1: not just what she did that was so heroic, but
Speaker 1: who she was. You know, It's like I always tell writers.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm telling writers now, I want you to
Speaker 1: write Harriet. I just want you to write her. I
Speaker 1: don't want you to write the hero I think that's
Speaker 1: just a byproduct of her driving need to make a difference.
Speaker 1: But who she is at the end of the day
Speaker 1: has gotta be something else. That's been the biggest issue
Speaker 1: with me, and it needs a director who's not going
Speaker 1: to shrink from all of that. And the what I
Speaker 1: mean by that is towards a later part of her years,
Speaker 1: she actually met her husband and she was with him
Speaker 1: until he died, Nelson Davis. So when she was forty two,
Speaker 1: this woman that you see in pictures, you know, with
Speaker 1: the scarf on her head, you know, you know, with
Speaker 1: her back kind of humped over, you know, found love,
Speaker 1: found someone who fell in love with her. So is
Speaker 1: sexualized not sexy. Sexualized is someone who obviously was lonely,
Speaker 1: is someone who could could not have been mad at
Speaker 1: God even though she had a just passionate belief in him. Um.
Speaker 1: I want someone who's able to explore the heroic in
Speaker 1: the mess. That's the only way for me I can
Speaker 1: do it. That's the only way I can do it.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to play heroic. I don't know
Speaker 1: how to play that. I know how to play a
Speaker 1: person whose need is to matter, I could do that,
Speaker 1: But I don't know how to play someone who's slaying
Speaker 1: dragons all the time and never has a weak moment,
Speaker 1: like an icon. Try to play an icon. So why
Speaker 1: biopics are difficult Because nobody wants to be disrespectful to them,
Speaker 1: so no one wants them to be seen as bad
Speaker 1: or messy, when in fact we all are. And Um,
Speaker 1: for me, that's what makes someone even more more heroic
Speaker 1: that in the midst of all of that stuff that
Speaker 1: can be shameful, that can be putrid, that can we
Speaker 1: could be struggling with, we can sift through it and
Speaker 1: somehow live a life bigger than ourselves. That's truly interesting
Speaker 1: to me. But other than that, I don't really want
Speaker 1: to do a paint by numbers biopics. So finding the
Speaker 1: director and finding the writer has been quite a task.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe Mr Soderbergh get back together. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe cut him in a good moment. Martini, Well, I
Speaker 1: look forward to that when you finally get it together.
Speaker 1: It's an amazing sounding project and uh again, everybody go
Speaker 1: check out Fences. It's phenomenal film, one of the year's best,
Speaker 1: and she gets one of the best performances Bylla Davis.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks for listening everyone. Remember to subscribe and
Speaker 1: check back next week when I'll be talking to Hidden
Speaker 1: Figure star Kevin Costner. You've been listening to playback at
Speaker 1: Variety three