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Speaker 1: Now let's get into the show. Welcome to the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health,

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Speaker 1: personal development, and all the small decisions we can make

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Speaker 1: to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Dr joy Hard and Bradford, a license psychologists in Atlanta, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: For more information or to find a therapist in your area,

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Speaker 1: visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com.

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Speaker 1: While I hope you love listening to and learning from

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Speaker 1: the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute

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Speaker 1: for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for Session one seventy

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Speaker 1: two of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. If your

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Speaker 1: Instagram fee looks anything like mine, for months, you've probably

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Speaker 1: been seeing tons of beautiful assists in their homes surrounded

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Speaker 1: by lots and lots of luscious green plants. It seems

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Speaker 1: like many of us have found solace in plants and

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Speaker 1: other connections to nature in the past couple of months,

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Speaker 1: so we wanted to dig into what's driving this for us.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, we're sharing two perspectives on a growing

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Speaker 1: field of psychology called nature the therapy or eco therapy.

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Speaker 1: First up is my conversation with Beth Collier. Beth is

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Speaker 1: in private practice as a nature allied psychotherapist and rights

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Speaker 1: on nature, health and race. She specializes in working with

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Speaker 1: relational trauma in our connections with people and nature. Beth

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Speaker 1: and I discussed what eco therapy is, why so many

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Speaker 1: of us have turned to plants, the psychological benefits of

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Speaker 1: being connected to nature, and steps we can take to

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Speaker 1: repair our relationships to nature. Here's our conversation. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Viv Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for inviting me. It's really great to be able to

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Speaker 1: join you here from London. Although I'm sat in the

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Speaker 1: woodland so I don't really feel I'm I'm in the

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Speaker 1: city at the moment. Yeah, so of course the listeners

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Speaker 1: can't see you, but you are. You have a very

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Speaker 1: picturesque background, so I'm at peace just looking at your

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Speaker 1: background out there in the woodlands. We are lucky, although

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Speaker 1: a lot of people see London is one of the

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Speaker 1: world's major cities, that it's still got a huge amount

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Speaker 1: of green space where we're lucky to have lots of parks,

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Speaker 1: but also woodlands too, very close and accessible. Mm hmmm. So, Beth,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy you were able to join us because I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure how active you are on social media, but

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Speaker 1: definitely since March, you know, since the pandemic really hit,

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Speaker 1: I've just been observing lots and lots of pictures of

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Speaker 1: plants all across the social media feeds. It seems like

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Speaker 1: lots of people have been getting into buying house plants

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Speaker 1: for their homes, planting gardens, you know, just really doing

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Speaker 1: a lot with greenery. And so I'd like to hear

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Speaker 1: just from you your thoughts about why that's happening, Like

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Speaker 1: why do you feel like people are turning to things

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Speaker 1: like plants and gardening right now? Yeah, nature has this

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Speaker 1: wonderful capacity to soothe us and to help us feel grounded.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of us have turned to

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Speaker 1: nature to help us get through some very stress for

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Speaker 1: anxious times during the coronavirus period and lockdown in particular,

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Speaker 1: for many of us that have had um policies where

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Speaker 1: we've had to stay indoors most of the time and

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Speaker 1: we can't go out and access our usual green spaces,

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Speaker 1: than bringing nature indoors has been the next best thing.

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Speaker 1: So I think people have been turning to nature for release.

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Speaker 1: It's been a wonderful focus having plants to tend to

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Speaker 1: and care for, but also feel the benefit of being

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Speaker 1: around plants which uplift us that make us feel calm. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I know a lot of your work is in

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Speaker 1: nature therapy, So can you tell me more about what

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Speaker 1: that is and how you became so passionate about their practice. Yes.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up in the countryside in the UK,

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Speaker 1: which for a person of color is quite unusual. The

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Speaker 1: only two percent of people of African descent live in

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Speaker 1: the countryside in the UK, and so my childhood spent

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Speaker 1: roaming the fields, playing outdoors, learning about nature and how

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Speaker 1: it I could meaningfully interact with it. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: the more I knew about edible plants, the less I

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Speaker 1: had to go home to to get something to eat.

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Speaker 1: So nature became a very meaningful relationship up for me

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Speaker 1: um And when I moved into the city, I realized

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Speaker 1: that not everybody saw nature as normal, that there had

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Speaker 1: been a real disconnection where I opened my door and

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Speaker 1: I was surrounded by nature. For a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: they have to make an effort to go out and

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Speaker 1: find the natural world, and not everybody has the kind

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Speaker 1: of connections which make that possible, whether it's they don't

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Speaker 1: have parents that take them, or they find that green

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Speaker 1: spaces aren't accessible in the areas that they live. So

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Speaker 1: my journey into nature was through seeing how for many

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Speaker 1: people there was a distance between them and the natural world.

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Speaker 1: And I've been working with a young boy who was

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Speaker 1: at risk of falling into trouble with gangs, and we

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Speaker 1: were working traditionally indoors in a room, and nothing seemed

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Speaker 1: age appropriate for him. The toys were too young. He

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Speaker 1: was someone that presented with a lot of bravado, even

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Speaker 1: though he was only about ten eleven, but he wasn't

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Speaker 1: ready for face to face eye contact. And it made

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Speaker 1: me think back to my days as a child and

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Speaker 1: having natural spaces and being able to roam, and how

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Speaker 1: that so out a lot of energy, and how it

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Speaker 1: allows us to process things that we're feeling. And I

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Speaker 1: wondered what it would be like if I took our

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Speaker 1: work outside. It didn't actually happen with that child, but

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Speaker 1: it did with others in a similar situation. And from

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Speaker 1: there I started to offer my adult clients the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to work outdoors too, And the transformation was sort of

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Speaker 1: self evident that when we change our environments and we're

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Speaker 1: able to express ourselves differently, we realized that much of

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Speaker 1: the things we're experiencing our to do with the external

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Speaker 1: environment we're in, not just our own inner internal worlds.

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Speaker 1: And so what is it about being in nature that

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Speaker 1: you feel like help people to kind of run their perspective?

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Speaker 1: So I think there's something in introducing the idea that

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Speaker 1: there is a relationship to be had with the natural world,

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Speaker 1: that just like our parents and our siblings, the quality

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Speaker 1: of our relationship with nature will have an impact on

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Speaker 1: our well being. I described nature as offering that the

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Speaker 1: core conditions of the ideal primary care giver. But nature

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Speaker 1: is a judgmental nature is available. Nature makes us feel

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Speaker 1: supported and confident and by able by offering those qualities,

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Speaker 1: Nature is able to offer us a positive attachments and

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Speaker 1: we can find secure base by being in nature. And

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Speaker 1: that's a wonderful thing to be able to access, to

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Speaker 1: feel safe, to process other feelings regarding our human social relationships.

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Speaker 1: But I am just fascinated by this. I mean, because

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Speaker 1: you describe your work as really focusing on the relational

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Speaker 1: trauma in our connections with people in nature, and I

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Speaker 1: consider myself someone also who really helps clients to work

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Speaker 1: with those relational traumas and attachment pieces that may have

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Speaker 1: kind of gone awry, And so I love how you're

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Speaker 1: talking about using nature to do that. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: more about how you are helping people to work through

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Speaker 1: some of these relational traumas through the use of nature. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So let me just wide in the context a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So I'm a nature allied psychotherapy, which means I see

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Speaker 1: all my clients in natural settings in parks and woods,

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Speaker 1: and as well as exploring human social relationship, that's the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to explore relationship with nature. Another part of my

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Speaker 1: work is with wild in the city and we offer

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Speaker 1: experiences in woodland living skills like foraging, wildlife identification, and

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Speaker 1: also ecotherapy and hiking. So I'm opening up the space

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Speaker 1: just too up trauma and people of color in particular.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things we do with wild in

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Speaker 1: the City is to help people rebuild the oral tradition

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Speaker 1: back into relationship with nature, and we do this by

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Speaker 1: coming together to experience the natural world, and for many

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Speaker 1: people it's a process of discovery about the plants and

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Speaker 1: the wildlife in the UK. In our history of migration

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Speaker 1: to the UK, we often experienced hostility for many people

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Speaker 1: of color in the UK. There was a large period

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Speaker 1: of migration in the fifties and sixties, and the hostility

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Speaker 1: we counted, which tended to be in cities, meant that

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Speaker 1: many people felt unsafe to venture off into the countryside

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Speaker 1: and more remote areas, and so relational bridge into the

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Speaker 1: natural world was disrupted, and rather than feeling safe and

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Speaker 1: welcome in natural spaces, there was a cultural pattern of

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Speaker 1: feeling unsafe and that it wasn't for us. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of what we're doing in with Wildernest City is

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Speaker 1: bringing people together, gathering, particularly around the fire, and reflecting

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Speaker 1: about what our relationship with nature has been and looking

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Speaker 1: at the interruptions the human interference that has meant being

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Speaker 1: in nature doesn't feel safe and trauma is a big

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Speaker 1: part of that work in understanding the loss that has

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Speaker 1: been experienced in not having access to nature is this wonderful,

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Speaker 1: nourishing resource that helps us to feel good, but also

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Speaker 1: that the means by which we came to be separated

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Speaker 1: from nature often stemming from a human interference and a

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Speaker 1: trauma within that. Wow, that is fascinating. I loved it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I've heard anybody well here in

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Speaker 1: the US, though it may exists, I'm not heard of

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Speaker 1: other people practicing in this way. So I'm wondering for

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Speaker 1: people who may be interested in exploring some of this,

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Speaker 1: like what kinds of things might they look for in

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Speaker 1: terms of like searching for a therapist, Like what are

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Speaker 1: some key terms they might google? Like how might they

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Speaker 1: connect with someone like you? Yes? So other common terms

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Speaker 1: for this kind of worker things like ecotherapy simply outdoor therapy,

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Speaker 1: nature therapy. There are other parallel practices like forest bathing,

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Speaker 1: taking advantage of the wonderful health properties particularly within woods

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Speaker 1: and amongst trees. They're also wilderness experiences. So if you

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Speaker 1: were to look at wilderness therapy or wilderness retreats, got

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Speaker 1: it okay? And I'm wondering if you can say more

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Speaker 1: just about how we're psychologically impacted by this disconnection that

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Speaker 1: we've had from nature. How does that maybe show up

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Speaker 1: in our lives. Yes, I'll answer that the long way

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Speaker 1: around by talking about what nature does for us, and

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Speaker 1: then we can see what we miss when we aren't connected.

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Speaker 1: I think for many of us, although I've talked about

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Speaker 1: some fears anxieties, when we're in nature, we feel a

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Speaker 1: lot of positive feelings. We feel uplifted, we feel more relaxed,

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Speaker 1: we feel calmer, there's a sense of contentments and perhaps

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Speaker 1: a sense of belonging to something bigger than us. And

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Speaker 1: neuroscience is showing some amazing things that these aren't just

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Speaker 1: subjective feelings, that something's very real is happening to our

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Speaker 1: physiological system. So, for example, I'm sat now in this

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Speaker 1: woodland surrounded by trees, and these trees are releasing a

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Speaker 1: chemical called fight on side, and it's part of their

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Speaker 1: defense system against bacterial and viral attack. And this chemical

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Speaker 1: also has a positive impact on our own both of

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Speaker 1: our nervous systems that they soothe and calm both the

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Speaker 1: sympathetic and ap parasympathetic nervous system. So that's going to

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Speaker 1: help sleep, our rest our, digestion, it's going to make

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Speaker 1: us feel calmer, it's going to help regulate our natural rhythms.

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Speaker 1: So just by being in a space, we get a

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Speaker 1: lot passively from nature. The neuroscience also shows, for example,

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Speaker 1: that when we're in green spaces, areas of the brain

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Speaker 1: associated with love and empathy are activated, and that's in

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Speaker 1: contrast to gray concreted areas, where areas of the brain

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Speaker 1: associated with anger, fear, and stress are activated. So there's

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Speaker 1: a very real difference between what happens to our physiology

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Speaker 1: when we're in green spaces. So talking about what we

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Speaker 1: lose when we come into a city space, we've got

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Speaker 1: the sounds, the noise, the smells, so many signs, other people,

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Speaker 1: lots of things demanding our attention, and this can feel

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Speaker 1: like a real assault on our nervous system, and our

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Speaker 1: body can react as if we're in fight or flight.

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Speaker 1: Are adrenal intends to be higher, we have higher levels

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Speaker 1: of cortisol breathing on, our heart rate goes up, so

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Speaker 1: there's something very stressful about being in city spaces. And

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Speaker 1: if you've lived in a city or your life without

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Speaker 1: access a relationship with nature, you might not even be

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Speaker 1: aware that you're living in a more heightened adrenalized state

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Speaker 1: than if you live more rurally or have closer connection

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Speaker 1: to the natural world. Yes, so so just being outside

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Speaker 1: and like you said, you know, we know the feeling

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Speaker 1: that you get sometimes when you just like allow the

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Speaker 1: sun to hit your face, or you know that you

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Speaker 1: can just feel really grounded by being in touch with nature. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: so we're already and I think it's the same in America,

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Speaker 1: but certainly in the UK. People of color are more

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Speaker 1: likely to live in cities and urban areas if that

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Speaker 1: environment is already more stressful, already an assault that we

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Speaker 1: experienced as a trauma, fight or flight being activated. Let alone,

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Speaker 1: all the other things were experiencings of people of color,

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Speaker 1: but the trauma of racism, the stress of navigating social

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Speaker 1: life and professional life as a person of color. Then

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Speaker 1: it adds it's a part of our systemic experience of

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Speaker 1: racism and trauma to be disconnected from the natural world.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you can say more about that, But

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Speaker 1: I mean because on the part of guest, we talk

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Speaker 1: a lot about generational trauma and it sounds like that

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Speaker 1: is what you are referring to as well. And I

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Speaker 1: had no thought about like the ways that we have

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Speaker 1: been kind of pushed out of green spaces as a

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Speaker 1: continuing legacy of it. Can you say more about that? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: So I touched on in the UK our experience of migration.

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Speaker 1: I should say there have been people of colorme in

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Speaker 1: UK for centuries, but in more recent years are larger

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Speaker 1: migration as communities has been twentieth century, and when we

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Speaker 1: came over to the UK, we tended to gather in

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Speaker 1: cities for the support, to have a sense of community,

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Speaker 1: to be able to meet our needs. It's where the

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Speaker 1: jobs were, and just in setting up our lives we

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Speaker 1: encountered a lot of hostility. It was very common, for example,

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Speaker 1: for housing to have signs which said no Blacks, no dogs,

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Speaker 1: no Irish. So just finding our feet, finding basics like

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Speaker 1: accommodation was a struggle. And faced with that kind of

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Speaker 1: racism in city context where there are larger numbers of

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Speaker 1: people of colors already unpleasant and hostile, the idea of

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Speaker 1: going more remotely where there are fewer people of color

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Speaker 1: becomes intimidating and generationally so depending on your age, grandparents

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Speaker 1: or parents passed down the message of you know, don't

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Speaker 1: go out of fear, wanting to protect and keep people safe.

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Speaker 1: And there are many people that have had that message

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Speaker 1: passed down to them that this isn't for us or

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Speaker 1: even you know, this is for white people. And I

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Speaker 1: think in our culture that that kind of message that

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Speaker 1: nature isn't for us is quite common. I mean, some

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Speaker 1: of my favorite comedians have pieces about, you know, how

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Speaker 1: ridiculous it is to want to camp or to go

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Speaker 1: into nature. You know, why on earth would you want

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Speaker 1: to do that. I think that that's a reflection of

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Speaker 1: a rationale that does exist within black communities. And for me,

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Speaker 1: this is a sign. It's a coping mechanism. It's a

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Speaker 1: sign of being able to cope with the disconnect that

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Speaker 1: actually is really hurtful. It's harmful, and obviously a very

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Speaker 1: common way of coping with the loss of something is

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Speaker 1: to disparage it, to say, well, I didn't want it anyway.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's dirty, it's boring, why would I want

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Speaker 1: to go? And I think that this thread within our culture,

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Speaker 1: which can sometimes dismiss nature is a part of protecting

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Speaker 1: ourselves from a hurt, from the loss of something that

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Speaker 1: doesn't quite feel safe and easy to access. M So,

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Speaker 1: do you have any ideas and maybe strategies that you've

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Speaker 1: used in your own work for how people can reclaim

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Speaker 1: these spaces. Yes, so, particularly drawing from my work with

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Speaker 1: Wild in the City, I think being together as a

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Speaker 1: group has been really healing and reparative. Obviously, there aren't

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Speaker 1: a large number of us that do enjoy nature in

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Speaker 1: the natural world, and I'm aware in the US you've

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Speaker 1: got amazing groups like Girl Trek and Outdoor Afro. I'm

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Speaker 1: not meaning to suggest that we're not in these spaces,

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Speaker 1: but for many of us that do enjoy nature, we

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Speaker 1: often find we're the only one in a group, and

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Speaker 1: we're having to work through being the only one. Sometimes microaggressions,

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Speaker 1: other things that create a barrier to just be able

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Speaker 1: to relax and enjoy. Men tell me that they're often

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Speaker 1: made to feel that they are a possible threat, and

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Speaker 1: so they're modifying their behavior in natural settings, and all

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Speaker 1: of these things become a barrier to their own enjoyment

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Speaker 1: that they're having to think about other people and change

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Speaker 1: their behavior to make others feel at ease. So there's

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Speaker 1: something about being in a group of people of color

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Speaker 1: which means we can let go of a lot of

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Speaker 1: that and just have that direct connection to the natural

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Speaker 1: world and have time to to sit, to talk, to

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Speaker 1: connect and talk about what our experiences have been, what

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Speaker 1: our family experiences have been, but also particularly to explore

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Speaker 1: our very rich culture of relationship with nature from our

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Speaker 1: countries of heritage. I think that's the great irony that

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Speaker 1: in our countries of heritage, whether that's Africa or the Caribbean,

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Speaker 1: we tend to have a really deep connection with the

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Speaker 1: natural world and it's being lost on our migration to

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Speaker 1: the West. Mm hmmm. Do you have any suggestions there

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Speaker 1: for people who may struggle with like outdoor allergies. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's a difficult one. I it's it's such an unfair

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Speaker 1: thing if you are wanting to spend time in nature

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Speaker 1: or enjoy nature and you have allergies, and that feels

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Speaker 1: like a barrier. I mean that there are sort of remedies.

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Speaker 1: People were commend eating local honey physically. People also recommend

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Speaker 1: colonics and enemas to address allergies, but I think also

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Speaker 1: thinking about time of day, there might be a time

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Speaker 1: of day whether there are less allergens which affect you,

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Speaker 1: or trying to to work out are there particular trees

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Speaker 1: or plants that are triggering this and finding habitats that

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Speaker 1: are more comfortable for you. Are there additional barriers to

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Speaker 1: kind of getting into this work or practicing this work

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Speaker 1: besides allergies that you can think of. I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: I think for some people, apprehension about being in nature

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Speaker 1: can itself be a barrier. But just like many of

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Speaker 1: us when we're approaching therapy, there can be something that

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Speaker 1: makes us anxious or cautious. I think nature brings its

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Speaker 1: own triggers for some people, for example, bugs, dogs, other

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Speaker 1: aspects of wildlife that might be encountered, And just like

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Speaker 1: you would in any other part of therapy, that's something

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Speaker 1: that can be talked through, either in advance or it

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Speaker 1: becomes part of the work that you're doing together in

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Speaker 1: a session, is to explore that anxiety, all that fear.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. So I would imagine, like many things, the

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Speaker 1: coronavirus has changed what your work looks like. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know, you know a lot of us have been

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Speaker 1: encouraged to just stay indoors at this point, and so

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Speaker 1: I think it's difficult to navigate, you know, wanting to

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Speaker 1: be outside for some benefit with also the concerns about

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Speaker 1: safety in health. I'm curious to hear what you're seeing

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Speaker 1: and how maybe it's impacted your work. Yes, so one

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Speaker 1: of the wonderful benefits of being outdoors is perhaps a

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Speaker 1: safer way of meeting face to face that there's less risk.

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Speaker 1: And so some of my work has been able to

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Speaker 1: continue being socially distant but still together in our natural setting.

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Speaker 1: But also the great use of technology zoom allowing sessions

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Speaker 1: to go ahead where I'll be in my nature spots

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Speaker 1: and my client will be in theirs. So we are separate,

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Speaker 1: but the client's still able to access all those those

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Speaker 1: benefits of being in the natural world. And they fed

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Speaker 1: back to me that of how powerful that's been. They

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Speaker 1: haven't lost nature as their therapists. Even though we're not

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Speaker 1: together as humans, they still feel the benefit of nature

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Speaker 1: as their co therapist. So I'm wondering if you can

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about what kinds of things

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Speaker 1: you're doing with your clients in terms of helping them, say,

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Speaker 1: get engaged with nature. Yes, so as a psychotherapist, nature

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Speaker 1: is our location for where we meet. But it's also

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Speaker 1: potentially a relationship that's further developed. But that's something that

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Speaker 1: will be It will depend on our clients individual connection

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Speaker 1: with the natural world. For some we we don't particularly

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Speaker 1: go very deep because that's not what they're looking for.

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Speaker 1: Much like when people come to traditional indoor therapy, there

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Speaker 1: will be some areas they want to explore more than others.

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Speaker 1: There will be some resistances they feel ready to face

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Speaker 1: and some they won't. So as well as being a

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Speaker 1: wonderful location, nature can be or and is very active

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Speaker 1: within the therapy. So as I mentioned, nature is a

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Speaker 1: co therapist. It's not just me there as a human therapist.

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Speaker 1: And I say co therapist because nature is able to

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Speaker 1: reflect back a mirror to us feelings, emotions, and patterns

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Speaker 1: in our experiences. There can be incredible synchronicity as you

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Speaker 1: move through a space of wildlife interacting of the sun

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Speaker 1: shining off leaves, of the wind suddenly picking up that

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Speaker 1: speaks to clients, that helps reflect back something they may

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Speaker 1: have been feeling. It never ceases to amaze me that

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Speaker 1: the timing of nature the clients speaking about something difficult

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Speaker 1: and feeling oppressive, and the wind will come in and

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Speaker 1: sort of really blow on us, and the client will

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Speaker 1: smile and say, you know, see, I told you, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling things are against me. There's a wonderful mirroring

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Speaker 1: that nature can offer as well as being a co therapist.

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Speaker 1: Nature is an incredible dynamic container. She's always changing. So

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Speaker 1: our therapy room never looks the same, it never sounds

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Speaker 1: the same, and it never smells the same. It's a

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Speaker 1: really rich space to work in, whether we're meeting in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the day under a bright blue sky,

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00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: or whether we're having a session in the evening with

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00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: the stars and the moon and the different sounds that

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00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: you get during the nighttime. So nature is the co therapist,

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00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: it's the dynamic container, it's the therapy room. But also,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned, my works very much based an attachment

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Speaker 1: theory and to promote that we have an attachment to

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Speaker 1: the natural world, just as we have an attachment to

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00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 1: our parents, our siblings, our work colleagues, and the quality

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00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: of that attachment can change. We can develop and nurture

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00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: our relationship with nature to feel that positive sense of

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00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: attachment and that secure base in the natural world, and

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00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: for many people, experiencing the intimacy with the natural world

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00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: can become a roadmap for experiencing and nurturing intimacy within

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00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 1: human relationships. I'm sure lots of your listeners that have

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00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 1: been on their own therapeutic journey might recognize perhaps initially

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Speaker 1: feeling a bit lost or uncertain, you know, where is

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Speaker 1: this going to take me? Um, There's a lot that's

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00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: unknown about the process, and sometimes you just have to

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Speaker 1: sort of let go and trust. And when you look back,

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00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 1: you can see how you can't always control what's going

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Speaker 1: to come up or which way things are going to go,

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Speaker 1: but you can realize moments where you were brave and

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Speaker 1: you went with it. Because some clients they have that

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Speaker 1: experience first with the natural world, developing that relationship, so

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00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,640
Speaker 1: then when they contemplate looking at perhaps a painful relationship

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Speaker 1: within their human relationship, they already have a roadmap for

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00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: these challenges, the twists and the turns, and how it's

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00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: going to feel. So it's it feels safer and less

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00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: daunting to touch on those more uncomfortable feelings. Nice, and

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00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 1: I can imagine it also is kind of like a

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00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: great projective space so to speak, right, I mean, because

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00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: you know somebody sees a leaf falling or something and

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00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: then they can talk about like things that they're triggers

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00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: for them in their lives. Right, So period, dine, Yes,

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00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,479
Speaker 1: there's a wonderful creativity. So we might stop and just

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00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: observe and look at something in nature or client, I

433
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: want to use materials within nature to explain something to me.

434
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: Remember one clients really welcoming the opportunity to draw out

435
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,239
Speaker 1: how he experienced his psychosis using leaves. They were all

436
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: tunnel leaves, really bright colors, and it was the first

437
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: time he had had the opportunity to really describe and

438
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: depict such a visceral experience. He used the natural world

439
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: to do that. Um. I can think of another client

440
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: who was expressing real frustration and anger with her mother

441
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: in particular, but her family who she felt neglected by.

442
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: Just as we were walking past the lake and there

443
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: was a female mallard being pursued by three chicks who

444
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: are desperately trying to keep up with her but not

445
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: not quite managing to do so. And my client went,

446
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: there you go a bad mother, and was able to

447
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: use that visual metaphor in front of us to really

448
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: feelings of frustration. She was feeling about being abandoned, about

449
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 1: being left behind. Wow, thank you for sharing it. I

450
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: appreciate it. So what are your hopes for the future

451
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: of nature therapy? Where do you feel like the field

452
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: is going. It is an emerging field but increasingly in demand.

453
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: So I also offer training for psychotherapists and other well

454
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: being professionals in nature allied psychotherapy. This is a modality

455
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: of therapy that I've fearies based on my own practice.

456
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: I've been working in nature for over eight years now,

457
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: and it's a modality for ongoing client work in natural spaces.

458
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: There are therapists working in nature, but not necessarily in

459
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: an ongoing way, so it might be more one off

460
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: experiences or shorter group work. But my work happens continually

461
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: in an ongoing relationship in nature, just as you might

462
00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: do indoors. So I offer CPD short training and also

463
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: a diploma, a year long diploma in nature allied psychotherapy,

464
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: and this is something I'd like to develop so psychotherapists

465
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: can do their entire training journey within nature, Whereas at

466
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: the moment most people are training traditionally for indoor modalities

467
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: and then sort of topping up afterwards. So my plan

468
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: within the next three years is to have a training

469
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: program so you can start from day one immersed in

470
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: the woods within a nature based practice. Nice and where

471
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: can people connect with you, Beth for what are some

472
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: your websites as well as any social media handles if

473
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: you'd like to share them. Yes, So, my private practice

474
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: website is best Collier dot co dot UK. You can

475
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: also find some of my writings on that site. And

476
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: for training courses, it's the Nature Therapy School, and then

477
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: for interest in wild in the City it's it's www

478
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: dot wild in the City dot org dot UK. The

479
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: Nature Therapy School is Nature Therapy School dot com. And

480
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: my my personal addresses Beth Collier dot co dot UK. Perfect,

481
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: and we'll be sure to include all of those in

482
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: the show notes. Thank you so much, Beth. I appreciate

483
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: you joining us today. Thanks so much for inviting me.

484
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure to be with you. Thank you,

485
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: Thank you. Next, I chatted with Dr Jennifer Roberts, who

486
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: is an assistant professor of kinesiology at the University of

487
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: Maryland School of Public Health in College Park. Her research

488
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: focuses primarily on the impact of our built environments and

489
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: some of the ways programs are being developed to improve

490
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: our access to nature within our city environments, including medical

491
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: prescriptions for nature and other outdoor activities. Here's our conversation.

492
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr Roberts. Definitely,

493
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm really thrilled to be here chatting with you. Yeah,

494
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: So can you start by just talking with us about

495
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: your research with Phoebe and what you're seeing in terms

496
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: of built in environments and how they impact our health

497
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: and well being. Sure. So I kind of entered this field.

498
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: I like to call it active living research because a

499
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: lot of times when I say built environment, people are like, well,

500
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? So when I say active

501
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: living research, I characterized as seeing how the spaces that

502
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: we live in can either promote or not promote our

503
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: ability to be physically active. Physically active, whether that's recreational

504
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: going to a park and playing with your kids, or

505
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: even like active transportation, which is transporting yourself by walking

506
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: or biking or skateboarding or any of those things. And

507
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: so I entered this kind of pivot in my research

508
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: or my career about ten years ago. And so I

509
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of do this research to focus on

510
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: the impact of built but also social and now I've

511
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: kind of moved into natchural environments and see how those

512
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: environments can really impact our public health by way of

513
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: physical activity. And I particularly like to focus on adults

514
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: and youth, but also kind of really highlighting marginalized communities.

515
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: And so a lot of the times I've looked at,

516
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, whether there's a presence of sidewalks, whether there's

517
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: adequate lighting, whether there's parks nearby, in a nutshells, just

518
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: kind of like, what are the features of that built environment,

519
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: of that neighborhood, of that community that can encourage us

520
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: to get out and move. But then you can't really

521
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: just look at that, you know, in a vacuum. You

522
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: have to think about the social environment. So, for example,

523
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 1: I had to study my Physical Environment and Active Transportation study,

524
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: which I typically called PETE, and I did some focus

525
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: groups of some adolescent kids, and most of them were

526
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: youth of color, and many of them, you know, we're

527
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: sharing experiences about how they've experienced microaggressions or anxiety and

528
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: walking or taking public transportation in certain spaces because of

529
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: their you have to really think about It's not just

530
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: about is there enough lighting, is there sidewalks, but is

531
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: it a safe space for particularly people of color to

532
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: engage in physical activity? You know, I always give the

533
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: example of Trey La Martin was engage in active transportation

534
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: on his way back home, and we see what happened

535
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: with him. So we have to also consider the social

536
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: environment and not just the build environment. Yes, and you know,

537
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: I think that it's so impactful to think about like

538
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: all of the different ways that we can really kind

539
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,479
Speaker 1: of approach adplicacy work, right. You know, so even with

540
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: that example of Trayvon Martin, you know, you wouldn't necessarily

541
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: think that your area of study would kind of intersect,

542
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: but it does. It does. I get so excited because

543
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: a lot of the conferences and the venues that I

544
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: go where the act of living researchers are, we are

545
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: very kind of myopic, you know. We're like, oh, there's sidewalks,

546
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: so there's parks, and we get very much into using

547
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: you know, g I s to see whether or not

548
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: if the park is within a half mile, because if

549
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: a bus stop is within like you know, a half mile,

550
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: because then people are more likely to go to it

551
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: so we can really zoom in on that aspect, which

552
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: is great, But then a lot of times, most recently

553
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: in the last past few years, I've actually been bringing

554
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: this other layer, looking at well, it's great if we

555
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 1: have the best built environment, but what if that's not

556
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: the best social environment for some of us. And so

557
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: when I've given talks, it's kind of opened the door

558
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: to people seeing this other aspect of active living research.

559
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: And so I do like what you say, really, you know,

560
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: enjoy when I can see that intersection of the different disciplines.

561
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: M Can you talk more about any of the research

562
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: maybe you've done or seen that talks about particularly black

563
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: women being disconnected from nature and maybe some of those

564
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: societal factors that have impacted that. It's interesting that you

565
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: say that because as a whole, there's been this kind

566
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: of belief that black people in general are just disconnected

567
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: from nature, and some of the reasearchs that has been

568
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: done has shown that that's not necessarily the case. There

569
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: are black people out there who want to engage in nature,

570
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: who want to be a part of nature, and it's

571
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: not just a sense that, oh, you know, this is

572
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: something only for a white space. So for the white community,

573
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: and so I think some of the issues around that

574
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: have to look at whether or not these spaces are inclusive,

575
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: you know. And a lot of this work has been

576
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: done by a Dr. Georgetta Taylor at the University of Michigan,

577
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: and she's looked at this whole ideal of this disconnect

578
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: of black people from from nature. But most recently I

579
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: actually came across some work from a Dr Melanie Harris.

580
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: She's an associate professor of religion at a Texas Christian

581
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: University in Fort Worth, and she's actually really looked at

582
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: this whole kind of like well, first this nature being sacred,

583
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: but this kind of like really and she uses this

584
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: ideal of eco womanism, which really it has its underpinnings

585
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: in an environmental justice paradigm. So basically environmental justice meaning

586
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: that you know, it's not random that there's certain areas

587
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: where there's more environmental pollutants, there's more environmental pollutants and

588
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: more empowershed areas, and more areas that are inhabited by

589
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: black and brown folks. So it's this whole idea of

590
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: using that paradigm to understand that there are more areas

591
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: where black and brown people live that happened to be

592
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: environmentally toxic communities. But then they move forward in looking

593
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: at this kind of eco womanism and then links into

594
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: this whole acknowledgement that we are connected, humans are connected

595
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: to non humans as well as there's strong links between women,

596
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: spirituality and nature. And it's just like this really wonderful

597
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: kind of I don't want to say theory, but paradigm

598
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: of looking at the connection between particularly women enough color,

599
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: particularly African American women, and nature. And she presents a

600
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: lot of is using a lot of the literary works

601
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: of Alice Walker, who is a naturist, let alone one

602
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: of the best authors out there, And she uses a

603
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: lot of the literary works from more specifically her work

604
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: from the Color Purple to show that there's always been

605
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: that connection between Africans and African American people and nature.

606
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: So to have this kind of narrative now that we

607
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: are disconnected, it's I don't want to say, partly self imposed.

608
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: It's completely skewed by the fact that it's that it's

609
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 1: been imposed on us by other people. And I guess

610
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: I should say and so I think this whole ideal

611
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: of looking at nature as us being kind of intrinsic

612
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: to us since the beginning is important to acknowledge. I mean,

613
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: even if when you look back at old slave narratives,

614
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: there was always this kind of connection and discussion about

615
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: acknowledging you know, nature, nature as a source of knowledge,

616
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: as a source of you know, getting to the north.

617
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: It's just always a part of us. And so I think,

618
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, saying that we're not connected is really just

619
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: a disservice to the fact that it's always been a

620
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: part of us as a people. Mm hmm. Yeah, it

621
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: goes back to your earlier comment that you know, some

622
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: of the disconnection has come from it not always feeling

623
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: safe or you know, we have not been included in

624
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: these spaces, right And even still, you know, there's so

625
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: many other layers that go into this in the sense

626
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: that you know, you think about the ideal of some places,

627
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: there's this whole white privilege of like, well, this is

628
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: my space, so wait, what are you doing here? How

629
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: do you know about this space? You know, and kind

630
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: of this like why are you in this green space?

631
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: Why are you here? And so sometimes you know, I

632
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: think we as Black Americans, African Americans, however, you want

633
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: to self identify. We sometimes self imposed and say, well,

634
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: you know, well, hiking is not for us, or going out,

635
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: you know, mountaineering is not for us, not realizing no,

636
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: it is for us just as much it is for

637
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: anybody else. And we have a right to be there

638
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: and enjoy the beauty and what we can get out

639
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: of nature, just like anyone else. So yeah, so I

640
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: think that's it's important to acknowledge that. Yeah, And do

641
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: you have any tips for people who may be kind

642
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: of stuck there? Well, from one think that nature is

643
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: for you, and it may be not. One person's exposure

644
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: to nature may not be the same type of exposure

645
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: that you may need for nature. And I think it's

646
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: one of those things that you have to maybe take

647
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: baby steps. Sometimes it's just a matter of just like

648
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: going out your front porch, sitting on your front porch

649
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: for maybe like ten minutes and just kind of absorbing

650
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: just the sounds. You know. It's particularly you can do

651
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: this very early in the morning where it's just you know,

652
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: you just have this like orchestra of nature, whether it's

653
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: the bird or the wind or whatever, and just taking

654
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: those baby steps. You know, I don't see necessarily go

655
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: and try and climb and do these long trucks and hikes,

656
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: but just take that or maybe if you feel unsafe

657
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: doing that. There's wonderful ways that you can get nature

658
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: without having to absorb all the elements of nature. And

659
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is, you know, when you

660
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: are in a green space, you can see these maybe

661
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: like wonderful natural landscapes, you can hear the animals, you

662
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: can smell, you know, the flowers, you can feel the breezes.

663
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: But you can still you know, get the therapeutic benefits

664
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: of nature without having to get all of those elements.

665
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: So maybe you just you know, downloaded YouTube click and

666
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: it's funny, I says. I was just visiting my mom

667
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: last week and she was like, I found the greatest

668
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: video on YouTube, and I'm thinking to move yourself. She's like, no,

669
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: it's just a sound of birds. She's like, sometimes I

670
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: will just listen to this, and it does work. If

671
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: you just close your eyes for a minute, you just listen,

672
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: you can absorb that aspect of nature. You know, with

673
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: some great noise canceling headphones, you can really just kind

674
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: of soaped in. There's also videos. I mean, I love

675
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: watching documentaries and animals. So that right there kind of

676
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: brings you close to nature, and that can be in

677
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: just the safety of your home without having to go

678
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: out to spaces if you're not ready to do that

679
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: just yet. Got it? I love it. I love it. Yeah.

680
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: And I saw a suggestion also of like these underwater

681
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: videos where you can kind of see like all these

682
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 1: fishing right yeah. I mean just something simple is that,

683
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, or even just you know, opening your window

684
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, just get the breeze a little bit.

685
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: And and the interesting thing is it doesn't take a

686
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 1: long amount of time. I do have a colleague who's

687
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: with me at the University of Maryland. Her name is

688
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: Dr Naomi Sacks. She actually did research and she found

689
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: that it's little. It's ten minutes of leisure time. Experiencing

690
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: nature can give you the most benefits, you know, improve

691
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: your mental health, improve your well being just ten minutes.

692
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: A lot of times people think, oh, you know, nature,

693
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: I gotta get my backpack, I gotta pack up the car,

694
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: I gotta go up to this mountain and this. It

695
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: could just be ten minutes of all the different ways

696
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: that you know I just described and how you can

697
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: absorb some nature and you'll be amazed at the benefits

698
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: that you're able to read. So can you talk about

699
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: some of those benefits and maybe some of the things

700
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: that we have lost related to you know, our space

701
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: is being more urbanized, So you've already talked about in

702
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: black communities there does not tend to be as much

703
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: green space and we see more urban environments. So can

704
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: you talk about some of the downsides event right, It's

705
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: interesting because currently about half of us live in urbanized areas,

706
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: and they project that by the twenty fifty will be

707
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: like sixty eight percent of us worldwide will be living

708
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: in urbanized cities. And you know, urbanization is great in

709
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: the sense that it can bring some advantages and some disadvantages.

710
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: You know, if we think about you know, there's sometimes

711
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: better access to certain services when you live in urbanized

712
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: area or a city, but some of the disadvantages have

713
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: to do with some like kind of the profound changes

714
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: and even how our social family patterns are organized. So

715
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 1: if you think about the fact that if you live

716
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 1: in a city and maybe you have aging parents who

717
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: live in a more rural ror or even in a suburb,

718
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: there's that gap and so it becomes very challenging to

719
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 1: be able to tailor your life in such a way

720
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: that you can still fulfill the responsibility you need in

721
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: terms of aging parents and then balancing that with children.

722
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: But we have seen that, you know, urbanization not only

723
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: just in terms of disrupting family patterns. You know, it

724
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: can't affect you know, mental health through a variety of stressors.

725
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: Whether that's the overcrowding, noise, pollution, I say, I have

726
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: a lot of noise pollution where I live. I live

727
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: across the street from a fire station, so hearing the

728
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: sirens you know every some hours. Light pollution so there's

729
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 1: sometimes more light in the urban area, high level violence,

730
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: and then the reduced social support that I was alluding

731
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: to before. So with all of these stressors you can

732
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: have a couple with the fact that sometimes there's like

733
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 1: this intertwined relationship between urban living and poverty, and so

734
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: between all of that it can really have some detrimental

735
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,959
Speaker 1: effects on mental health. And when I say mental health

736
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: and mental disorders, I'm including depression, anxiety. We've seen it

737
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: with substance abuse, alcoholism, family alienation, a variety of different things,

738
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: and a lot of research has actually shown that in

739
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: some urban areas those higher levels of anxiety and depression

740
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: for women than it is for men. And we've also

741
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: seen that that it's more prevalent when you couple that

742
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: with the area being poor versus not being poor. And

743
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: so it's like these kind of layered effects in terms

744
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: of the social isolation, the external masters that can really

745
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: cause havoc on your your mental health. And then couple

746
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: with the fact that if you don't get in good

747
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: dose of nature, you know, to help kind of in

748
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: between those bouts of all these stressors, then it can

749
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: really be you know, even more detrimental because you don't

750
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: have a reprieve mm hmmm. Yeah. So you already mentioned

751
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: some of the things that people could do if they

752
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: had limited space or limited access to nature, but you're

753
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: also talking about like poverty and other situations that might

754
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: make it difficult to like listen to a YouTube video

755
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: or something like that, right, right, And so you have

756
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: suggestions of other things that maybe don't involve technology for

757
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 1: people who maybe have limited access to nature. I do

758
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: have a suggestion since that sometimes practicing meditation, um and

759
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: mindfulness can help in terms of kind of just putting

760
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: you in a space. I saw this quote it said

761
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 1: exposure to nature can quite the rumination of the word wine.

762
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: And I think even if you don't have access to nature,

763
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: I think the meditation and being in a quiet space

764
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: can help quiet that mind and help prevent that constant rumination.

765
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: We all get into that point where we're just going

766
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: in circles and circles and circles worrying about something or

767
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: concerned about something. And so if you don't have that

768
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: easy access to the parks or the easy access to

769
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: technology to help you link to listening to that, I

770
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: think if you can just find apply space in your

771
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: home or quiet space at work, you know sometimes you

772
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: might be just shutting your door and just kind of

773
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: meditating for those ten minutes, you can kind of still

774
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: simulate some of the benefits that you would get if

775
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: you were in a place of nature. So, Dr Roberts,

776
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: I know that a part of your work involves working

777
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: with doctors who are kind of encouraging prescriptions for physical activities.

778
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: Can you say more about that work? Sure? So the

779
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: park our X movement started here in d C as

780
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,439
Speaker 1: DC park r X, and it will start to buy

781
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: Dr Robert's are and it's kind of evolved into Park

782
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: r X America, And basically that's just kind of a

783
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: nonprofit organization and its mission is to decrease the burden

784
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: of chronic disease, increase health and happiness, but also kind

785
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: of foster this environmental stewardship. And so the goal is

786
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: to actually have physicians, health care providers, nurses actually prescribe

787
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: a dose of nature. And there's an actual prescription that

788
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: you can get. You can get it by text, you

789
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: can get a piece of paper, and the patient will

790
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: actually get prescribed twenty minutes of going out to their

791
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: local park. And you actually walk through the process with

792
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: the patients. So you asked them, you know, where do

793
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: you live or where you work, you can actually have

794
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: a few minutes to go out and be in green space,

795
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: and using that, you put that information in and then

796
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: you'll say, okay, well what do you like to do?

797
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: Do you like to walk? Do you like to just

798
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: kind of meditate when you're out there? And so the

799
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: prescription will not only say you know which park you

800
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: can go to, but then they will say, you know,

801
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: do like twenty minutes of meditation, twenty minutes of walking,

802
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: and here's the prescription for during this three times a week,

803
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 1: and they found that after a while, people started enjoying

804
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: it to the point where people didn't need a prescription anymore.

805
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: They realized, oh, wow, I can do this for twenty

806
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: minutes or even longer. And they've noticed that, you know,

807
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: this idea of prescribing these which was intended to be

808
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: a kind of a supplement, not necessarly an alternative, but

809
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 1: a supplement to some of the medicines and the therapies

810
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: that people were already on in terms of the conventional therapies.

811
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,720
Speaker 1: But people were able to see that, Wow, I've actually

812
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: been able to reduce my blood pressure medication, or I've

813
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: actually been able to cease taking my blood plessure medication

814
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: because I have been walking three times a week in

815
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: my local park. And so it's this kind of ideal

816
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: that using these natural, free kind of resources that are

817
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: generally trusted and accessible, hopefully that you can actually use

818
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: this as a supplement to moving our health, not only

819
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: our physical health, but also our mental health. I'm curious

820
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts about how like our relationship to

821
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: nature changes now in light of the coronavirus. Right, so,

822
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: we do know, are these researches suggesting that it is

823
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: safer at least to be outside and you know, still

824
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: distanced but wearing masks. But I'm wondering, like what we

825
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: might see evolve in terms of our relationship to nature

826
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: in light of this. It's an interest you say that,

827
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: because when we started getting all these you know, shutdown orders,

828
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: people were starting to get cabin fever, and so you know,

829
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: many people started flocking to like their local parks, to

830
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: the point where some parks are becoming so crowded that

831
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: it was hard for people to social distance in the

832
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: actual parks. And it's really funny that I think about

833
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: that because even my governor he was trying to tell people,

834
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: you guys have to be six ft apart, six ft apart.

835
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: So he actually took down the hoops of the basketball

836
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: court because he tried to prevent people from playing basketball.

837
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 1: And it was so funny because it was like counterintuitive,

838
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: like you want people to be feeling reactive, but at

839
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: the same time you want them to be six ft apart.

840
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 1: And so it's funny because I feel like it's kind

841
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: of awakening came about where people were like, oh, I

842
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: can get out because everything else is closed. I think

843
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: it also let us become more aware of some of

844
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: the disparities though, because not all of us had access.

845
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: Not all of us had equal access, and many of

846
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: us live in what we call recreational deserts, you know,

847
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: park deserts, kind of just playing along the same framework

848
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: is food deserts. But the key is the definition is

849
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: not having access to a park that's also safe, and

850
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: so a lot of us didn't have that, and so

851
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: it just kind of came to like many of the

852
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: inequities that were already there in the sense that, you know,

853
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 1: you had some people who just were kind of stuck

854
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: they couldn't go to a park. And it's interesting that

855
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: you asked this about the whole COVID thing, because going

856
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: back to the park are X, I actually started an

857
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: initiative on my campus at the University marital And called

858
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 1: nature are X at U m D. And it's part

859
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: of this whole kind of coalition of campus our networks

860
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: so many campuses, about twenty in the US and Canada.

861
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: We kind of started our own little you know, nature

862
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: are X on each individual campus and just kind of

863
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 1: going along with a lot of the mission of park

864
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: rs encourage students, staff faculty to explore the natural spaces

865
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: on campus, and my actual campus is actually deemed arboretum,

866
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: so we have many trails and many spaces, so encouraging

867
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: people just to go out for a few minutes. And

868
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: then also we're eventually going to incorporate the whole ideal

869
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: of writing a prescription for green space exposure. But we're

870
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: actually going to have an online supposed in this October,

871
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: and one of the main things we're gonna talk about

872
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: is how nature has been helping people throughout this whole

873
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: COVID nighting pandemic, you know, because people have felt isolated,

874
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: people have felt still crazy, but going out in nature

875
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: has not only helped him deal with that mental part,

876
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: but it's also helped in terms of some of the

877
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: physical activity of actually walking in nature. So there's been

878
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: you know, plus and mindus and you know, who see

879
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 1: the inequities of people who don't have access in nature,

880
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: but then we see some of the pluses from the

881
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: people who did were able to increase their level of

882
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: physical activity and kind of just get reacquainted with some

883
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 1: of the benefits of nature. Yeah, it definitely has been

884
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: that I think for a lot of people, you know,

885
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: because I think in the beginning of like shut down,

886
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: and when people were sheltering in place, it was like, okay,

887
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: can I even go outside? Right? Like is it even

888
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: safe to be outside near people? Right? Right? So I

889
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: think going outside has helped to ground people, you know,

890
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: if you don't have access to like a beautiful ground space.

891
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: I think just seeing people move around is a very

892
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: grounding experience when you've kind of been in your house

893
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: for some time. Exactly, I've seen more neighbors that I

894
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: have not seen in years. I'm like, oh, you know,

895
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: because people are just me out in the street and

896
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: just kind of like, I can't be in this house,

897
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: like you know, what's kind of this almost like awakening

898
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: or people coming to lights. I kind of liken it

899
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: to like cicadas where a bird for years and then

900
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: we just came out, you know, and we see each other,

901
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: and I hope we don't go back down, you know,

902
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 1: you know, like before. But you know, there, I guess

903
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: that is one of the silver linings of this pandemic. Yeah, yeah,

904
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: So what are you most excited about in terms of

905
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: your growing field? Like you said, you know, there are

906
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 1: lots of different terms from what your work is called,

907
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: and it does seem to be like a growing field.

908
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 1: So what are you most excited about. I think I'm

909
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: most excited about the fact that people are starting to

910
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:45,439
Speaker 1: recognize that the marriage between nature and physical activity can

911
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,240
Speaker 1: be promoting to your health, you know. And it cannot

912
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: only be propting to your health. It could help you

913
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: in the sense that it may not be a completely

914
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, alternative to some of like the medicines that

915
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: people are taking weathers for diabetes, for high blood pressure,

916
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: but it can be a supplement that can help you

917
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: so that maybe you can decrease the dosage. And I've

918
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: actually heard people who eventually, you know, cease the type

919
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: of medication. And so I think people kind of understanding that,

920
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, there's this other whole kind of therapeutic and

921
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: preventative outlet that is good for us, you know. And

922
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: I also am encouraged by the fact that I see

923
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: more people of color coming into the field, more people

924
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: of color coming into the field from different angles. There

925
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: was a woman who she started I forgot her name

926
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: right now, but she and I believe she's Atlanta. She

927
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: started this group or this company where she gives bike tours.

928
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: So people are on the bike and She's going to

929
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: different historical spots with in Atlanta, and so you're getting

930
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of both. You're getting some African American history,

931
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 1: but then you're also getting some physical activity. She's a

932
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: woman of color, and so she's marrying you know, history

933
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: and active living together. And so I think a lot

934
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: of those things excite me about this field because it's

935
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: an evolving field and it's completely different than it was

936
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: maybe ten years ago. It's still a young field, but

937
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,399
Speaker 1: it's still in you. It's evolving, and so I think

938
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: seeing what can come of it in the next ten

939
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: years is something that I find exciting. Yeah, that does

940
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: sound exciting, and people I think are also during this

941
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: time getting innovative, right, you know, so thinking about like

942
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: how you can do some of these things that are

943
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: still safe for people to participate in. Exactly, exactly exactly. Yeah.

944
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,479
Speaker 1: So do you have any additional resources that you would

945
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: suggest for people who maybe want to learn more about

946
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: this or things that have been particularly helpful for you.

947
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: I know there's a group that I'm part of, it's

948
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: called Active Living Research that is definitely a resource because

949
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 1: it gives you a variety of different tools to look

950
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: at how you can be more physically active. So that's

951
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: one key thing that I do in my research on

952
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: the nature side. There's park our x America website that

953
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: gives a plenty of information. And also what I like

954
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 1: about the website is if you go to the website,

955
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 1: it immediately shows you a map and it shows you

956
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: where greens aces are close to your location based on

957
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: where you've logged on. And so I would definitely go

958
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: there if you're like, well, I don't know where the

959
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: closest park is or I don't know where these parks are,

960
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, kind of give you an ideal of, oh,

961
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 1: there was actually one just like half a mile down

962
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: the road, or one you know, right around the block.

963
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: And so I like that kind of website that helps

964
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: you kind of understand that. And then you know, there's

965
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: other kind of tools that you know, you can look

966
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: at if you really want to get into some of

967
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: the research. And the woman who I mentioned before, Dr

968
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: Georgetta Taylor, She's done a lot of research regard the

969
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: environmental justice look at the connection of African Americans and nature.

970
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 1: So I would definitely look at some of her work.

971
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: And then even you know, the professor Dr Melanie Harris

972
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: is another person who I would look at as well.

973
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: They're on the website and you can look at some

974
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: of the work that they've done if you really want

975
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: to get to kind of some of more the scholarship

976
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 1: behind it. Perfect, and where can people who connect with

977
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: you with your website? Are any social media handles you'd

978
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,439
Speaker 1: like this year? So my website is my full name.

979
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: I always say it's long, but it's my full names.

980
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: So it's Jennifer Denise Roberts dot com. And through that

981
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: website you can get linked to my website at the

982
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: University of Maryland and then my Twitter is at active Roberts,

983
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: so it's pretty easy to kind of remember. And if

984
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: you find one of those, you can link to some

985
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: of the other spaces that I have some information up

986
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: on the web. So perfect. Thank you so much for

987
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: sharing with us today, Dr Roberts. I appreciate it. Thank

988
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: you so much. Dr Bradford. This has been a thrill

989
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: to chat with you. I'm really excited that you invited

990
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 1: me and I hopefully we get a chance to chat

991
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: more in the future. Thank you. So we have heard

992
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: you all loud and clear. Many of you have sent

993
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: in messages saying that you love the episodes where we

994
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: share journal prompts, are other practical ways for you to

995
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 1: take what we've talked about in the episode and apply

996
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: it in your own life. So today we're introducing a

997
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: brand new segment called press Pause. This will be your

998
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: opportunity within the next week to press pause on everything

999
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: else going on, to engage in something that will be

1000
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 1: restorative or reflective for you. This week, our Press Pause

1001
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 1: comes from Birth, who you heard from earlier. So Birth,

1002
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: I would like for you to close us today with

1003
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: one practice that we can use. So for somebody who's

1004
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: been really inspired by hearing you talk today, what's one practice,

1005
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: maybe a very low barrier to injury, thing that they

1006
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 1: can do to get connected with nature or to help

1007
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 1: them to kind of re establish the relationship. My one

1008
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: thing would be to treat yourself to some sort of

1009
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: meditative time in nature. There's a practice called sits spots,

1010
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,919
Speaker 1: which is a practice used by indigenous groups all over

1011
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: the world, particularly in the America's and sits spots is

1012
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: literally as it sounds, it's finding a space in a

1013
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: natural setting that you feel drawn to and sitting in it,

1014
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 1: ideally for at least fifteen minutes and just tuning into

1015
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: things around you, what you can hear, what you can smell,

1016
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: the sensations against your skin. And the idea of a

1017
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: sit spot is as we move through woodlands or open spaces,

1018
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: wildlife is reacting to us. We're a potential threat. But

1019
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: if we sit still for long enough, the natural world

1020
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: accepts us as part of the flora and fauna and

1021
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: starts to go about its business as it would if

1022
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 1: we weren't there. And you get a real window into

1023
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: the conversations and the communion between natural things, including ourselves.

1024
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: And this can be a deeply connecting practice. If you

1025
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: don't have access to nature immediately, then this is a

1026
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: meditation that can be done just viewing pictures of nature,

1027
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: a lovely video of nature from YouTube, just tuning in,

1028
00:56:47,840 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: enjoying the imagery and the sounds. I'm so glad Beth

1029
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 1: and Dr Roberts were able to share their expertise with

1030
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 1: us today. To learn more about them and their work,

1031
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for

1032
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash Session one seventy two and

1033
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: for all the plant parents among us, our friends at

1034
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: the Seal are offering the tv G community off your

1035
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: next purchase at the Seal dot com. Just enter promo

1036
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: code Therapy for Black Girls fifteen at checkout. Don't forget

1037
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: to share your takeaways with us on social media using

1038
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: the hashtag tv G in session, and please text two

1039
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: sisters in your circle right now and encourage them to

1040
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: check out the episode as well. If you're looking for

1041
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, be sure to check out

1042
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

1043
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into

1044
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: this topic and connect with some other sisters, come on

1045
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where

1046
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: we take deeper dive into the topics from the podcast

1047
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: and just about everything else. You can join us at

1048
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C.

1049
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: Don't forget that. If you're looking for a way to

1050
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: in summer on a high note, Cricket Wireless has got

1051
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,960
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1052
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: For get four lines of unlimited data for a hundred

1053
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: dollars a month. Thank you all so much for joining

1054
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: me again this week. I look forward to continuing this

1055
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon take it care,