1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Adami's Studios. 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 2: Last night, after dinner in the River Cafe, I sat 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: with the chefs. Usually we talk about the evening service, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: what happened, who came, what we cooked. But this time, 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 2: knowing he was coming to the kitchen today, we spoke 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: about our guest, Yotam Ottolenghi. They've all the chef's read 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 2: his books, they've all eaten in his restaurants, and like me, 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 2: love his food. In short, they were thrilled he was coming. 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: Yatama and I were introduced years ago by a mutual friend, 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: Ari Shapiro Ruthie. He said, you've got to meet this guy. 12 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: You think the same way, and you will adore him. 13 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: Yatim and I share a lot. Most of all, we 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: believe in the people we work with, valuing them and 15 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: their creativity. We also share a kind of geography. Mine 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: is an Italian landscape with cities of the Renaissance. His 17 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: is further east, desert mountains and biblical We both live 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: and work in culture is far from where we were born. 19 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: Today we will talk about separation and connection, Eastern and 20 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: Western family and friends. Would you like to read a 21 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: recipe uniquely, I would say, not from one of our cookbooks, 22 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: but from one of yours. 23 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 3: I was looking forward to reading a recipe from one 24 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 3: of your cookbooks because they're just so much shorter. Famously, 25 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 3: al Telengy recipes are very long, so I worked hard 26 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 3: to find a short recipe in the minutes. Yeah right, 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 3: and it's only going to have like twelve ingredients and 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 3: not like twenty four. But this is from one of 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: my most recent books, called The Alto Lengthy Test Kitchen 30 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 3: Shelf Love. It's a butterbean recipe, so it's called one 31 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 3: jar of butter beans with preserves, lemon, chili and herb oil. 32 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 3: Five garlic cloves, finely chopped, two mild red chilies, finely chopped, 33 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 3: seeds in all, two tablespoons coriander seeds finely crushed with 34 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 3: a pestable mortar. Three preserved lemons, inner parts discarded and 35 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 3: skin finally sliced. One and a half tablespoons roughly chopped 36 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 3: thyme leaves, four rosemary sprigs, one tablespoon to milo paste, 37 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 3: one hundred and seventy meals olive oil. One jar of 38 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: butter beans seven hundred grams. Two large vine tomatoes roughly 39 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 3: grated and skin discarded, flaked sea salt, and black pepper. 40 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: Put the first eight ingredients and one quarter teaspoons of 41 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: flaked salt into a medium saute pan on a medium 42 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 3: low heat and steer everything together. Heat gently for twenty 43 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 3: five minutes until very fragrant but not at all brown. 44 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 3: If the oil gets too hot to turn the heat 45 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: down too low. Stir in the butter beans. Then turn 46 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: the heat, eat up to medium and cook for ten minutes. 47 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 3: Remove from the heat and leave to infuse for at 48 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 3: least an hour or longer if time allows. Meanwhile, mix 49 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 3: the greater tomatoes with a third of a teaspoon of 50 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 3: flakes sea salt and a good grind of pepper to 51 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 3: serve poor the butter beans. Mixture into a shallow bowl 52 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 3: and spoon over the greater tomatoes. Mixing it in places. 53 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: Sounds like a recipe that I would definitely want to make. 54 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 3: It sounds a bit like a river feb I. 55 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 2: Actually I did read that. Your first word was was 56 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: it Therali word for Hebrew word for soup. 57 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: Well, it is the kind of the little dumplings that 58 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 3: go into the soup, so it has the word soup 59 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 3: in it. Yeah, it was it something I think my 60 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: mum used to spread on the table while we were 61 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: waiting for the food and I just used to kind 62 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 3: of grab them and eat them. 63 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: And So going back then, starting at the very very beginning, 64 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: tell me about your early childhood in terms of food 65 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: as well. 66 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 3: What you know. Yeah, so I grew up in Jerusalem 67 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 3: and the food in Jerusalem. 68 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: At that point, can I just ask you were your 69 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: parents born in. 70 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: Israel or My parents were born in Europe just before 71 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 3: the Second World War and they immigrated with their parents 72 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 3: as little kids just before the war in nineteen thirty nine. 73 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 3: My mother was from a German family, so they were 74 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: German Jews, and my father were they were an Italian 75 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 3: family from Florence. 76 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: Really. 77 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so my dad was born in Florence and they 78 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 3: met in Israel and they so, yeah, they met in 79 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 3: Israel years later, yeah, yeah, and Jerusalem was so I 80 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 3: grew up in a very kind of a non traditional 81 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 3: Jewish home, very secular food wise, Like we had pork, 82 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 3: which nobody was unheard of. You know. My mom had 83 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: that butcher in Jerusalem, the one and only one that 84 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 3: sold pork, but it was under the counter and the 85 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 3: brown bag. Yes, she used to come in by a 86 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 3: ham and we used to get ham sandwiches for school. 87 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 3: But you know, we were not allowed to say what's 88 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 3: in our sandwiches and we were not allowed to share 89 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 3: it with friends. So the cover story was that it 90 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 3: was Turkey, where it was a very pink Turkey. 91 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: Great woman, very woman to come from Germany. She was 92 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: from Germany, so she probably had pork in Germany. I 93 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: was not going to give that up. 94 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there were various secular you know, and so 95 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 3: she just had to have four. But it was you know, 96 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 3: the stories about these things they sound quite you know, inocus, 97 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 3: but actually it was quite. It was a big deal. 98 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 3: So that butcher, and when people found out that he 99 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: was selling pork, you know, his shop was vandalized and 100 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: you'd have like people would like like glue in his locks, 101 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 3: so he couldn't open the shop the next day, et cetera. 102 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 3: It was in Jerusalem. Food is not a neutral stance, 103 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 3: you know, like all those decisions, all those things that happened, 104 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: those political implications, what. 105 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 2: Year with this have been? 106 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 3: So this was so I was born in sixty eight, 107 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 3: so we're talking about the seventies and eighties. 108 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: So late as that. 109 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. So the food culture of the 110 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 3: city was the food of the immigrants from wherever they came, 111 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 3: the Jewish immigrants, but also the Palestinian population, which was 112 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 3: so had such a rich, wonderful culinary history. And I 113 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: feel that I grew up in this world in which 114 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 3: we ate very European food. At home, my father was 115 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 3: cooking traditionally Italian dishes, and my mom was kind of 116 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 3: an international cook, but with a very Germanic approach to cooking. 117 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 3: But outside, you know, when we went out, we used 118 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 3: to have Palestinian food, Arabic food, and that's the mix 119 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 3: that I grew up having, and I always thought that 120 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 3: I was quite lucky to have had been exposed to 121 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 3: all those kind of foods from quite a young age. 122 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: Could your father find ingredients that he wanted for Italian. 123 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 3: Cooking, Yeah he could, so, first of all, they've had 124 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 3: they used to have food, like like I remember my grandparents, 125 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 3: because they couldn't really separate themselves from their Italian background, 126 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 3: so they used to have food sent to them, so 127 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 3: we had to. We used to get like anchovy paste 128 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: and olive oil and biscuits and cookies and things, so 129 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: they always get these packages of Italian produce that arrived 130 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 3: in Parmesan. So they lived about an hour from where 131 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: we lived in Jerusalem. They lived in the suburb of 132 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 3: Tel Aviv, and I used to come to their house 133 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 3: as a kid with my dad and the smell was 134 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 3: just completely different. It smelled of Italy in so many ways. 135 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 3: So they kept the Italian connection going on. And they 136 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 3: used to travel in the summer because they had a 137 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: house in the hills outside Florence that we used to 138 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 3: go to when I was growing up, So we had 139 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of that. So in between 140 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 3: the Italian and the Palestinian and the German influences, I've 141 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: had all that. 142 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: Because I often think that I often say that in 143 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 2: my history as as an interviewer, that many of the people, 144 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: especially immigrants, talk more about their grandparents food than their parents. 145 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: That if you've moved from your culture to another culture, 146 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: the mother is probably tried and adapt So if you 147 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: have a family from Ghana coming from Ghana to London, 148 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: the mother would try and kind of still remember her 149 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: food she grew up with, but would try to adapt, 150 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 2: and the children completely adapted and would have the food 151 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: of their friends, but the grandparents, when he went to 152 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: their house, they would cook the Danaan food or the 153 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: Italian food. And my mother in law left Italy for 154 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: London pre war, and her father, who's kind of Florentine 155 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: site aristocrat, would send her candied oranges every month. You 156 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: know that she craved those kind of Italian the Italian 157 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: food of your culture totally. 158 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 3: And the only difference is that in Israel at the time, 159 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 3: there wasn't like a cuisine as such. It was because 160 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 3: it was just so early on and it was just 161 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 3: so new and so young, so a national cuisine has 162 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 3: not evolved. There was a place Senian, the Palestinian food 163 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: was extremely evolved, but what people would call Israeli food 164 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 3: is something that evolved later. But when I was growing up, 165 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 3: there was the food that Polish Jews would would have cooked, 166 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 3: or Russian Jews, or Libyan Jews, or Moroccan Jews or 167 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 3: Iraqi Jews. Those each one had their own cuisine. But 168 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 3: I always like to say, like in Jerusalem was like 169 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 3: survival of the fittest, you know, like the best food 170 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: from every culture would surface and we have yeah, that's 171 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 3: really great. 172 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 2: So you would have the Sephardic and you would. 173 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 3: Have so you'd have a Sephardics, you know, salads and 174 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 3: like and messies, and you'd have like the bubkas that 175 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 3: would come from the Ashkenazi food and and in some 176 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 3: ways like some restaurants in Jerusalem these days, that then 177 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: when you go, that's what's featured, you know, like the 178 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 3: best of every culture that makes up the city. 179 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 2: Because in America, definitely my family where they were Hungarian 180 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 2: and Russian Jews, and my hunger and grandmother was a 181 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,119 Speaker 2: great pastry cook, you know, she made all the strudles 182 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 2: and all that, but I remember not really liking all 183 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: that sort of can filter fish and multi course that 184 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: that meat they cooked for hours, and I'm going to 185 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 2: get in trouble for this. 186 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: I always you're in good company. It's fine, the Eastern 187 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 3: European food. I always say, like, you know, there is 188 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 3: this Israeli chef called Aras Komorowski. He's a baker and 189 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: he's become quite well known because he's outspoken. He's one 190 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 3: of the founders of the modern way of cooking. And 191 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 3: he always says in Israeli, only you filter fish if 192 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 3: your grandmother is still alive. 193 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: That's funny, and I guess they are, but those grandmothers 194 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 2: might not be here for very long now. 195 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, But I also think there's good things you can 196 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 3: do with and I always say there's no bad cuisines. 197 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 3: It's just about how people cook those foods. And there's 198 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 3: when I go and people say, oh, how could you 199 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 3: would you like about British cooking, I said, like, there's 200 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: so many things here, and the desserts are like some 201 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: of the best desserts in the world, and you know that, 202 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 3: And I think it's it really is about what you 203 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 3: do with it, not I agree. 204 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 2: So going back again, it seems like you had a 205 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: household where food was really important, but your father and 206 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: your mother cooked. 207 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, both my parents cooked. My father because of this 208 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 3: Italian sensibilities, he used to cook in a way that 209 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 3: doesn't remind me of the way I cook now. So 210 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 3: it was quite minimal, great ingredients, cooked with care and attention. 211 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 3: And he used to make polenta and he's just to 212 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 3: stand there and stir it, you know, for forty five 213 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 3: minutes or an hour until it was just right, and 214 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 3: at the cheese, but everything very kind of moderately and 215 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 3: with a lot of attention, and was so different from 216 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 3: the way I ended up cooking, which is this kind 217 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 3: of quite a maximalist way of cooking, quite a lot 218 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 3: of ingredients more in I think, more keen to maybe 219 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 3: how they cook in North Africa or in Asia, South 220 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 3: Asia or Southeast Asia, in the sense that quite a 221 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: lot of spices, cook them down, create something, which is 222 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 3: kind of a base for sauce. He didn't cook like that. 223 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 3: He cooked much more the Italian way, but he was 224 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 3: a professor of chemistry at the university, so he had 225 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 3: a really kind of a deep understanding of ingredients. Intuitive. 226 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 2: But I would say that a recipe, I don't know 227 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: if you agree, is part science and part poetry. Yes, 228 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 2: you know, everybody likes the image of the Italian that 229 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: throws something in and does something there and does something that. 230 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 2: But actually they're very precise, I think. 231 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 3: Very precise. But he loved food. But there's certain things 232 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 3: he just like all Italians, he loved his foods the most, 233 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 3: and he just looked like there are certain combinations that 234 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: he would just not have, Like he said, sweet in 235 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 3: savory food. No, because he was from northern Italy, you 236 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 3: know that's maybe in Sicily you'd find there. Pulia but 237 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 3: not in the North. So if you'd have like something Moroccan, 238 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 3: you know, like a tagine with prunes or whatever, I 239 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 3: wouldn't touch that. 240 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: And your mother did she cook German sy Then. 241 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 3: My mom cooked German food. She was more of an 242 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 3: international cook, you know. She had these international cookbooks of 243 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 3: the fifties, you know, and she would try like a 244 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 3: Malaysian curry or delicious caspachio. But she also was a 245 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: food in the sense that for her food was very important. 246 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 3: The most important meal of the day in our house 247 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 3: was breakfast, and we had this kind of spread of food. Again, 248 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 3: not very tally. You went to school mostly on the weekend, 249 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 3: but even before I went to school, there was like 250 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: freshly sliced vegetables, fresh vegetables and some cheese and brine, 251 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 3: you know, like feta style and fresh bread and egg. 252 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 3: And this is still what I do for my kids, 253 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 3: Like before they go to school, I give them this 254 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 3: massive breastfast and Carl, my husband, looks at me and says, like, 255 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 3: is that really breakfast? You know, but they love it. 256 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 3: It really is delicious. But the whole concept of breakfast 257 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 3: is like people different cultures do it very different. 258 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: My grandchildren have Chinese and they have chicken soup for 259 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: breakfast service. They can think of nothing nicer than having 260 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: a bowl of soup. You know, I agree, and why not? 261 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't matter. 262 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 3: When I came here and I saw that grilled tomato 263 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,239 Speaker 3: and beans and sausage, I thought like, what, I'm an abomination. 264 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 3: I do like it now? You okay? 265 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 2: And so growing up in your do you have brothers 266 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 2: and sisters? 267 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 3: I have one sister. 268 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the family meal would be sitting. Did 269 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 2: your mother work yeah? 270 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, my mom was a teacher. 271 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you would sit down to breakfast, fantastic breakfast, 272 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: and then most dinners, would you have dinner together? 273 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 3: Yeah? We would also have dinner together. Yeah. Breakfast was 274 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 3: the main time you could trust that everybody would be there. 275 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 3: My parents worked a lot of dinner, not always, but 276 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 3: we also had dinners together. 277 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: Do you have memories of the kitchen? 278 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 3: Yeah? We So we had. The kitchen I was growing 279 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: up with was a long, kind of gally kitchen with 280 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 3: a dining table and chair at the very end. It 281 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 3: wasn't fancy at all. It was very particle, but there's 282 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 3: always cooking going on, and it was Yeah, I remember 283 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 3: I remember a cupboard where everything was was stored. And 284 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 3: I remember that I was alway used to climb up 285 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 3: the counter. I couldn't reach to get chocolate. There was 286 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 3: a box and she didn't mind. I don't know. She 287 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 3: always she never told us off, but we was. We 288 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: just come and had that cooking children. 289 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 4: When we need to start in the morning, they do 290 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 4: all the fish hungary and all the butchery. 291 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: So we start off with the meat and fish. While 292 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: I'm writing the menu. 293 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 3: Watch the level of butchery, like we get a we 294 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 3: get a whole pig or. 295 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, or a whole you know, being saloon on 296 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 4: the bone or yeah, the legs of lamb and all 297 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 4: and the whole fish fully scale with all the scales 298 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 4: and everything that's gotten gill and scale fish and do 299 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 4: all the proper you know stuff that's skillful stuff that 300 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 4: I suppose some we're busy kitchen, but we have a 301 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 4: lot of chefs and. 302 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: We do all that. 303 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 3: We don't have stations stations, so anyone can do everything anything. 304 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 4: By the end of probably it takes about four years 305 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 4: to learn all the sections. Well, not everyone here can 306 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 4: look on every section past the section is quite hard. 307 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 3: It is hard. 308 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 4: A lot of people be learning that section, so the 309 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 4: person on it today it's sort of. 310 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: Learning as well. 311 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 4: We're teaching them how to you know, and thank. 312 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 3: You at all. 313 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: Did your parents take you to restaurants? Did you go out? 314 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we didn't have We didn't have great restaurants 315 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 3: in Jerusalem in the sense in the way we have now. 316 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 3: So this whole, this whole revolution in food has not 317 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 3: happened yet, so we ate when we ate out. We 318 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 3: used to go to Palestinian restaurants. So the war just 319 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 3: happened not long before the nineteen sixty seven war in 320 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 3: which Israel occupied East Jerusalem. So in some ways this 321 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 3: is before the pre traumatic times. You know, it was 322 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 3: all very new and obviously it was complicated, but it 323 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 3: was relatively peaceful. So I remember we used to go 324 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 3: travel a lot into the West Bank. We used to 325 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 3: go to Annapolis to Jericho to have bron to have meals. 326 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 3: So we used to go to Jericho and have like 327 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 3: incredibly little meals. Oh, we would have these spreads of 328 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,959 Speaker 3: delicious things that you find, some of them you'd know 329 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 3: and some of them you wouldn't. So from you know, 330 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 3: like hummus or in Labana, you know, the strain yogurt, 331 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 3: but you'd also have like local herbs that be sauteed 332 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 3: in garlic and olive oil. They have incredible so they 333 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 3: have wonderful oranges, so you'd have orange juice freshly squeezed 334 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 3: a bit like Seville's, like they have some of them 335 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 3: that are cooking and some of them mostly for juicing 336 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 3: because it's so hot and humid, it's like perfect for 337 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 3: citrus and lamb on the grain. Also they have with 338 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 3: cooked lamb on open grill and rice dishes like my cluba, 339 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 3: like upside down rice cakes and bulgar salads. And it 340 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 3: was an amazing wonderful olive oil. Wonderful olive oil, and 341 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 3: great freshly baked breads, pizza breads and all and other 342 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 3: variations on that fiend. Because of Palestine cook their bread 343 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 3: in a taboon, which is that you know that kind 344 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 3: of ceramic oven, earthenware oven. So all that was there, 345 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 3: and I really have really really strong memory of driving 346 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 3: down to Jericho and just having all these wonderful foods 347 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 3: and coming back, but also in Jerusalem, I have such 348 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 3: strong memories of the of these flavors. 349 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 2: Did you ever think that you would like to do that? 350 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 2: Did you ever think you'd want to be a chef. 351 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 3: No, I didn't really think I would want to be. 352 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 3: I really loved eating so much so that like my 353 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 3: dad always used to make fun of me, used to 354 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 3: call me golozzo, which is like it's that in word 355 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 3: for like greedy, because I was greedy and I had 356 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 3: to make them like take me to restaurants. On my 357 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 3: There was one restaurant and restaurant in Jerusalem that served 358 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 3: as seafood, like shrimps and squid in that and it 359 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: was in East Jerusalem and the Arab part because they 360 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 3: were Christian era, I mean, Muslims can eat seafood as well. 361 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 3: And we'd go there and have like a plate of 362 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 3: like prawns and like butter and garlic and lemon, you know, 363 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 3: like and I just thought it was the most delicious 364 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 3: thing I've ever had. It was so exotic and so yeah. 365 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 3: So I had all really all that wonderful food. But 366 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 3: I never thought I was going to become No. I 367 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 3: kind of just assumed I'm going to follow in my parents' 368 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 3: path an academic, you know, go to university study, which 369 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 3: I did. I went to university and I studied and 370 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: Tel Aviv university. In the late nineties, I studied university, 371 00:19:58,280 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 3: I moved to Tel Aviv. 372 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: So what did you eat? 373 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 3: So my first apartment that I had with my boyfriend 374 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 3: at the time, we live by Caramel Market, which is 375 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 3: the main food and vegetable market, so it really was 376 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 3: an apartment really close to the market. And this was 377 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 3: when the first time I started to cook because I 378 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 3: was at university and so many students, like you know, 379 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 3: food was not forthcoming anymore, as I had to cook, 380 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 3: and I fell in love with cooking through the market. 381 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 3: So on Friday I would go and buy fresh herbs 382 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 3: and vegetables and cheese that I had this incredible cheese standards. 383 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,719 Speaker 3: They had all the Balkan cheeses, you know those sitting 384 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 3: in brine, you know, the different types of feta and 385 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: many different there are many different types of I used 386 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 3: the word feta, but it's the Bulgarian cheeses. It's a 387 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 3: whole range of young cheeses that they vary in saltiness 388 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 3: and texture from something which is more like a ricotta 389 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 3: to something much firmer. Yeah, you have like really really 390 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 3: bland like with unsalted cheeses that would you be used 391 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 3: for one use and then things that are crumblier like 392 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 3: more like every kota, and some are much smoother, like 393 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 3: other Greek cheeses, And so you'd have the whole the 394 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 3: whole range, and would you entertain. Yeah, we would have 395 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 3: other student friends came over and I would make like 396 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 3: you know, I remember making, you know, just starting to 397 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 3: understand what the like marinating a chicken and grilling it 398 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 3: and making a salad to go with, like very baby 399 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 3: steps in the kitchen. But I did fall in love 400 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 3: with cooking through that, but I was still I was 401 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 3: still in university. I still didn't think it's going to 402 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 3: be a career for me. So I finished a master's 403 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 3: degree in comparative literature and philosophy, and I just decided 404 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 3: it's not for me. 405 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: It's the academic life. 406 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 3: I just thought it was very insular, you know. I 407 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 3: thought like I was speaking to like seven people who 408 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 3: knew what I was talking about, and then the rest 409 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: of the world knew nothing and wasn't really remotely interested, 410 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 3: and it just felt esoteric. And it's like and then 411 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 3: the opposite happened when I started cooking, because all of 412 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 3: a sudden, everybody's interested, right, And that dichotomy between somewhere 413 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 3: where you really have no one to share your passions 414 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 3: with the world in which you can everybody is interested. 415 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 3: Was such a eye opener for me, and I realized, yes, 416 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 3: I want to try and engage in this conversation, and 417 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 3: I'm in that conversation. When I came to London in 418 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven, I haven't made up my mind who 419 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 3: I wanted to be and what I wanted to do. 420 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 3: But I thought, like, I'm going to take a year off, 421 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 3: and I went to the Court on Blue and yeah, 422 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 3: and I took a course there in Marleybone, Yeah, yeah, 423 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 3: Marlivaut Lane. 424 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 425 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 3: And I did a course there and I thought, okay, 426 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 3: maybe there's something for me there, but I wasn't at 427 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 3: sure I did. I did pastry and savory cooking for 428 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 3: three months and then I started working in the evenings. 429 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 3: I worked at the Capitol Restaurant and yeah, yeah, behind 430 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 3: hard I was. It was really good. They had a 431 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 3: mission and star and I was an assistant to the 432 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 3: pastry chef there. 433 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 2: I was working with her right into pastry. 434 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 3: Right into pastry. Well, I didn't know anything. So they 435 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 3: always throw you into pastry if you don't know anything, 436 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 3: because you know nobody's way. So I loved that. And 437 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 3: then I met Roly Lee and I started working at 438 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 3: Kensington Place. Yeah that was in ninety eight. Yeah, and 439 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 3: I worked for him for a couple of years and 440 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 3: I learned a lot. 441 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: So by that time you kind of knew that this 442 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 2: was a career, but. 443 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 3: That Yeah, I was a pastry chef. Yeah, and I 444 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 3: always I was with Roly I did mostly pastry as well. 445 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 3: I was running the pastry kitchen at some point, and 446 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 3: then I realized, I'm want to specialize in pastry. And 447 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 3: then I went to work for gale a baker and spice. 448 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 2: What do you think you liked about pastry? 449 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 3: I loved how that just the fact that you got 450 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 3: to play with your go for I love that, and 451 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,959 Speaker 3: the magic that happens when you bake. I still I 452 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 3: still love that, how one thing turns to another thing. 453 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 3: You know, you take a chicken, you put in the oven, 454 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 3: you get a chicken. But when you take a cake 455 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 3: and you put in the oven, you get something completely different. 456 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 3: It's it's not the same thing, and I still love 457 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 3: that magic. So I really specialized in baking, and even 458 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 3: when we opened up to lengthy years later, I was 459 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 3: I was still baking. Yeah, when I went to your 460 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 3: kitchen now, it really reminded me of the way we 461 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 3: work at Baker and Spice. Like Gaye would come back 462 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 3: from the market with like strawberries and apricots and quinces 463 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 3: and she said, like, there you go, like six boxes. 464 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 3: Do something with them. There wasn't a plan, and there 465 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 3: wasn't a there wasn't a recipe or a plan for 466 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 3: the day. It was just like these things arrived because 467 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 3: she saw them and they looked great, and we just 468 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 3: had to work what we have. 469 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: Amazing times you could do that. 470 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 3: And then and then my good friend, my ex partner, 471 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 3: Noam Barr, came back from traveling the world and he said, like, 472 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 3: let's do something together. And he studied business and I 473 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 3: was a Baker and Spice at the time, and he 474 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 3: said like he said, like, let's let's open a shop. 475 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 3: And we decided to do it. And it took about 476 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 3: a year to make it all happen, and Sammy Sammy Tamimi, 477 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 3: who's our other partner, I wasn't quite ready to join us, 478 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 3: so we started the process without him. And it was 479 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 3: supposed to be just a bakery in which I would 480 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 3: be baking. And then when Sammy joined at the very 481 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 3: last minute, This was in two thousand and two when 482 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 3: we opened on Lidbury Road in notting Hill. He joined 483 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 3: us and we decided we're going to have two sides 484 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 3: to our offering, which would be freshly made salads and 485 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 3: savory food mirrored by amount of cakes and. 486 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 2: Fruit are colors. 487 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 3: And we just thought, like the same thing that you 488 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 3: were doing in restaurants, we thought we can do the 489 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 3: same kind of philosophy apply it in in a takeout environment. 490 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 3: You know, we will just cook things freshly every single 491 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 3: day and sell it until we run out. And that 492 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 3: was still the idea that these these tiny kitchens produce 493 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 3: a lot of food and people come in and instead 494 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 3: of cooking themselves, we put the food and the cakes 495 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 3: out there and they come and buy them. But there 496 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 3: was there was nothing made off site. There's nothing. We 497 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 3: don't buy anything and we just cook it all there 498 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 3: for you. 499 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 2: I think what you brought to us to London to 500 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 2: food was a sense of exotic which was also so accessible. 501 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 2: You know that you had ingredients of perhaps the words 502 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 2: we couldn't pronounce. So we had a dish that was 503 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 2: named something we'd never heard of, or we could go 504 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 2: in and try one of your beautiful salads and take 505 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 2: it home and eat it. Or it just celebrates so 506 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 2: much a kind of a joy of ingredients of cooking. 507 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 2: Would you call this Middle Eastern? 508 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 3: Do you like that phrase or think so? I don't 509 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 3: think it's Middle Easter. And there's been Eastern sensibilities in 510 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 3: what we do. So even when Sammy and I started 511 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 3: cooking and serving food, it wasn't until like when we 512 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 3: published the book Jerusalem, in which we talked about our 513 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 3: heritage and background Sami's Palestinian background in Jerusalem, my Jewish 514 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 3: background in Jerusalem. Only that then people started saying, oh, 515 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 3: Middle Eastern ottelengis and Middle Eastern restaurants because before we yeah, 516 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 3: we used to have tahini and sumac and all those things, 517 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 3: but we also used to use miso and soy and 518 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 3: pomegranates and chili and cumin, which are not specific to 519 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 3: this region. But there's something about this kind of little 520 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 3: strip of the that goes from all the way from 521 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 3: Tunisia and Morocco and North Africa all the way through 522 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 3: the Middle East and then through South Asia all the 523 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 3: way to Southeast Asia, and it has a certain language 524 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 3: that I think we use. Sometimes you find something in 525 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 3: Mexico that speaks the same language, but it's a kind 526 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 3: of some sunny temperament. It's Chile's it's garlic, it's citrus, 527 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 3: it's these kind of intense flavors. So of course the 528 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 3: Middle East has them, but there's other places that have them, 529 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 3: and we just love to borrow from all those parts 530 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 3: of the world and use it and build on it. 531 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: To travel. 532 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I travel less now, but I used to travel. 533 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: My children are seven and ten, they're still quite young man. 534 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 3: So I chose to travel less when they were born 535 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 3: because I realized that every time I traveled, if I 536 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 3: couldn't take them with me, I would miss them too much. 537 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 2: But I find it necessary to go to Italy. You know, 538 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 2: it's a kind of we go, we go to taste 539 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 2: the new oil. But for me, going back to the 540 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: source is very important, you know, to actually go to 541 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 2: somebody's house in Rome, or in Piso, or in Milan. 542 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 2: There's a kind of sense of also. It kind of 543 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,959 Speaker 2: makes me feel we are you know, the connection is strong, 544 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: and those roots are very important, you know, the identity 545 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 2: too well. 546 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 3: I have that in Israel, so yeah, because my mom's 547 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 3: we go to visit her a few times a year, 548 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 3: and she lives outside a village in our village called 549 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 3: Abu Goosh, which is on the way from Tel Aviv 550 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 3: to trus Im, And whenever we arrive, we go and 551 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 3: as soon as we'd arrive with the kids, we go 552 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 3: and eat in the local restaurants and we have those 553 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 3: platters of Palestinian food that I love so much, and 554 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: then we go to the green grove certain by the 555 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 3: local vegetables, and I reconnect and I love that and 556 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 3: I find it very familiar in a way that I 557 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 3: don't find anywhere else. You know, everything is very familiar. 558 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 2: It's amazing. I'd like to know what you feel about 559 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 2: the food scene or the culture of food in Israel 560 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 2: right now is something that I'm made aware of all 561 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 2: the time, either by friends of mine who go there, 562 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 2: friends of mine who live there, and chefs that come 563 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 2: into the restaurant from you know, I can see them. 564 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 2: You know, there's the table of eight Israelis and they've 565 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 2: come and there they order everything on the menu or 566 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 2: they're tasting. And in London there are more restaurants. How 567 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 2: did this happen? 568 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 3: I don't have a really good explanation, but I'm seeing 569 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 3: it everywhere, Like you say, in London, there's some fantastic 570 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 3: Israeli restaurants. In America, they're really really flourishing, and in 571 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 3: Israel itself. And what I find interesting is this thing 572 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 3: has not existed fifteen or twenty years ago. When I 573 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 3: was living in Israel. There wasn't an original cuisine, and 574 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 3: those great restaurants, the good restaurants that you could find were, 575 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 3: you know, the restaurants of immigrants that have just arrived, right. 576 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 3: But this didn't formulate, and I think so when I looked. 577 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 3: I did a show for the BBC years ago called 578 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 3: Jerusalem on a Plate, and I took the director around 579 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 3: and showed him, you know, this is this this cuisine 580 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 3: and that cuisine, And then I was trying to formulate 581 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 3: actually what was going on that I really understand. And 582 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 3: the one thing that occurred to me is that it 583 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 3: was just all so new and fresh, and nobody felt 584 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 3: that they were kind of like committed to one way 585 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 3: of cooking. There was something very liberating about this sense 586 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 3: that everything is possible, you know, like, which is a 587 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 3: very Israeli thing. First of all, like you know there 588 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 3: isn't that there's a lais say air kind of like 589 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 3: whatever attitude, which helps, but also nobody felt nothing had 590 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 3: and I haven't seen it. I haven't been to another 591 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 3: country that is just so recently informed. But there's that 592 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 3: possibility of just like working with all those options, is 593 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 3: created these cuisines, and people travel in Israel or they 594 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 3: go to Israeli restaurants here and they realize that there's 595 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 3: something very original about it. And I think it has 596 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 3: to do with the fact that it's not indebted to 597 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 3: one part of the world, one teh wir one cuisine. 598 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,959 Speaker 3: It's kind of it's a magpie of cuisines and then 599 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 3: it comes together really nice. Is it strongly ara based 600 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 3: on I think there is a lot and that's not 601 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 3: being acknowledged enough. There is a very very strong underlying 602 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 3: Palestinian tradition of cooking that underscores this, and often people 603 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 3: don't talk about it enough for political reasons, and they 604 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 3: don't mention that often enough. I always have to say 605 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 3: that I don't think it's a bad thing that Palestinian 606 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 3: cooking has become so much part of what is perceived 607 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 3: as Israeli cooking, but it's really important to tell that story, 608 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 3: to tell that fact, because that's very much the basis 609 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 3: of so many of those dishes, not all of them, 610 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 3: many of them belong to Jewish diasporas of other cultures, 611 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 3: but Palestinian is really a massive factor there in the 612 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 3: way the news really. 613 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 2: Chef's cook I think that's something that we're all looking 614 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: at right now, is acknowledging the history and to recognize 615 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 2: where these roots come from. 616 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 3: I think what I had understood intuitively when I started 617 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 3: publishing cookbooks is that the best thing you can do 618 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 3: is just put it all on paper, you know, like, 619 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 3: where does this come from? Because first of all, I 620 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 3: think it adds depth to a recipe if you can 621 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 3: tell a story. But I think it's also really important 622 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 3: to be able to acknowledge the people who were even 623 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 3: if it's an individual, not necessarily a culture. You know, 624 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 3: to say, oh, that's this person, that idea came from 625 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 3: this person or from that person, because it's just the 626 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 3: right thing to do. But also it really helps to 627 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 3: create a much more a deeper sense to the recipe, 628 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 3: to the dish that you're eating if you know where 629 00:33:58,720 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 3: it comes from. 630 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 2: Writing books, yeah. 631 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 3: All of my last few books are all co written, 632 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 3: so I've collaborated with someone. That's what allows the books 633 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 3: to stay fresh, the fact that they featured other voices, 634 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 3: not just mine. 635 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 2: What is your most recent book? 636 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 3: So my most recent book is The Extra Good Things 637 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 3: from the Auto Lengthy Test Kitchen. So it comes out 638 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 3: of the Auto Lengthy Test Kitchen, and I've written it 639 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 3: together with Norm Rudd, who's yeah, she's half Baheranian, half English, 640 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,479 Speaker 3: so she's got that kind of what I have, which 641 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 3: is this kind of mix of culture. And it is 642 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 3: a book that tries to feature what we call extra 643 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 3: good things are condiments, are things that marinades and dressings 644 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 3: and sprinkles and things that are derivatives of a recipe 645 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 3: that you could kind of keep to one side and 646 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 3: use another day. Because often in our food we have 647 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 3: a dressing or sauce marinad. And what we're trying to 648 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 3: do is at tea people how people used to cook 649 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 3: in the old days, so they would instead of cooking 650 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 3: starting from scratch, every time you're go into the kitchen, 651 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 3: you'd have like a pot of sauer kraut or kimchi 652 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 3: or flavored oil or just something that is useful already 653 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 3: is halfway through it to a meal. So every recipe 654 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 3: has a takeout, something that you could keep on a 655 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 3: shelf or in the fridge that you could use for future. 656 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 2: I always like, first, you know, to follow a recipe really, 657 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 2: really precisely and really do it, and then you know, 658 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 2: to spontaneously change. And I also think when you talk 659 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: about the number of ingredients. I had a friend who 660 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 2: had six children and one summer she was taking They 661 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 2: were all under the age of sort of shit, twins 662 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 2: under the age of ten. I said, are you taking 663 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 2: all the kids to Martha's Vintage? She said no, because 664 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 2: I'm just going to take four of them, because you know, 665 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 2: it's really hard to stay with a friend when you 666 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 2: have six kids, but if you only have four, you 667 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 2: can stay with anybody, you know. And it was so relegive, 668 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 2: you know, to the idea that suddly, you know, so simple, 669 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 2: because you did book with ten ingredients, didn't you. 670 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, well I did simple It has some ingredients. Some 671 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 3: recipes have ten or yeah, which is like nothing, which 672 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 3: for me is not exactly ingredients. Yeah, I know, And 673 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 3: people say, you know that, why do you need so 674 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 3: many ingredients and so many exciting areas? I said, you 675 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 3: don't need anything. It's a choice, you know. But there 676 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 3: is this expectation these days that every recipe is for everyone, 677 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 3: and people can I substitute this if I don't like that, 678 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 3: And I always have to say, yes, you can. But 679 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 3: why don't you just choose another recipe? 680 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? Maybe exactly. But and you're cooking? Are you cooking 681 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 2: at home? Do you have time to cook. 682 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 3: Less than I used to, which is a shame. I 683 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 3: cook mostly on the weekend. So we are we as 684 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 3: parents to young kids. I wouldn't say young parents. We 685 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 3: don't entertain much during the week, but on the weekend 686 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 3: we have people over and then there will we do 687 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,280 Speaker 3: big weekend meals. 688 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 2: It's a question that I ask everyone if there's a 689 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 2: food we know, people that we turn to for comfort 690 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 2: and places we go for comfort. But if there's something 691 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 2: that you would want to eat apart from your mother's 692 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 2: chocolate being hidden, I can never get rid of that 693 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 2: image on the top shelf, is there a food that 694 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,240 Speaker 2: you've reached for when you really need comfort? 695 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 3: So I have to say that from all the things 696 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 3: that I've had, it's things that my father used to cook, 697 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 3: or my Italian grandmother she used to make. And it's 698 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 3: not just because I'm at the River cafam saying, as 699 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 3: she used to make ki ala romana. Ah yeah, yeah, 700 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 3: And it's the one smell that I have. As you know, 701 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 3: people talk too much about you know, those you know, 702 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 3: moments of childhood, but this is really one that stands 703 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 3: so strong in my mind that in my head that 704 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 3: is there thinly spread semolina and yoki on a tray 705 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 3: dotted with butter and cheese, and it would go under 706 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 3: the grail and all. And since they did get grete 707 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 3: cheese from Italy and they had parmigiano, and she would 708 00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 3: put that under the graill and it would just make 709 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 3: and that kind of semolina soft, you know, milky with 710 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 3: a grated cheese milk and cheese on top. It's just 711 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 3: it's just such a child with favor and that is 712 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 3: definitely the one that brings the most comfort to me. 713 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 3: And I've never managed to do it as not even 714 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 3: remotely as good as she does. 715 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 2: I know, well, we'll try and make it for if 716 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 2: I know, we would have put it on the menu. 717 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 2: It on the menu sometimes, yeah, yeah, especially we have 718 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 2: it on very often when we have white truffles because 719 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 2: it's one of those delicious recipes, which it's still just 720 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 2: without white truffles, but it does take because it's like 721 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 2: it's almost like a cheese fla and they are so delicious. 722 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 2: So we're going to go ahead and have lunch in 723 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 2: the River Cafe now without Jacky Romana. But the next 724 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 2: time we do, we'll definitely have Thank you, thank you, Yes, 725 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 2: let's do it. 726 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 3: Thank you so much much great. 727 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Book is now available in bookshops and online. 728 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: It has over one hundred recipes, beautifully illustrated with photographs 729 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book has fifty 730 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a host of 731 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,720 Speaker 1: River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted for new cooks. 732 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Lookbook Recipes for Cooks of all ages. 733 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four is a production of iHeart Radio and 734 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: Adami Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 735 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.