WEBVTT - Surveillance: Dermer on Israel-Hamas War 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.840 We bring you news and analysis every day on the 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.840 Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. But now you can get the latest 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:11.639 news on demand whenever you want. Subscribe to Bloomberg News 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.400 Now to get the latest headlines at the click of 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.880 a button. Get informed on your schedule. You can listen 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.720 and subscribe to Bloomberg News Now on the Bloomberg Business App, 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:27.720 Bloomberg dot Com plus Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:37.360 get your podcasts. Search Bloomberg News Now and subscribe today. 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.120 This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene, along 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.960 with Jonathan Farrow and Lisa Abramowitz. Join us each day 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:49.480 for insight from the best and economics, geopolitics, finance and investment. 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.720 Subscribe to Bloomberg Surveillance on demand on Apple, Spotify and 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:59.240 anywhere you get your podcasts, and always on Bloomberg dot Com, 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.960 the Bloomberg Crimenal and the Bloomberg Business opp This is 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:08.760 an important conversation. Why the duration Ron Dermer is Israeli 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:12.720 Minister of Strategic Affairs, but far more he was Ambassador 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:17.120 of Israel to the United States for seven years. His 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:22.000 extended period in Washington, his work at Wharton, among others, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.040 is noted and to have Ambassador Deurhmer with us, John, 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.440 with his experience across all of a decade is important. 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.039 Minister, thank you for being with us this morning, and 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.080 I think first and foremost we have to extend on 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:38.160 deepest sympathies to you and the people of Israel. Our 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.880 first thoughts going to the hostages, the scores of hostages 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.240 that were taken over the weekend. And as you know, 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.480 there are some reports at the moment in the media 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.680 that we'd love to get an on the record response 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.200 from you on this from Reuter's a little bit earlier 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.240 this morning that Katari mediators of how talks with Hamas 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.320 officials to try to negotiate the release of Israeli women 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.000 and children hold in Gaza. Minister, are their active talks 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.480 exlct my guitar to release hostages? 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:05.600 Well, what I guess you just read to me is 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.160 that Kataris were talking to Hamas about it. Israel has 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:10.560 not been negotiating with anybody. 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.639 Has Katar spoken to you about the release of hostages 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:15.840 and their role they might play as a mediator? 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.440 As I said, what the qataris speaking to Hamas and 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.959 talking about different things. Look, people are outraged by what happened. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.840 I'm sure your outrage. I appreciate the condolences. I know 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.640 their heartfelt, and they're deeply appreciated. We haven't seen something 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:32.799 like this, even in the Middle East, which is you know, 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.800 is has a lot of brutality and savagery in it. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.800 We haven't seen savagery like this since Isis when you 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:44.399 have killers, scores of hundreds, really of terrorists who who 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:49.799 invaded Israel on Saturday morning on trucks with AK forty 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:51.840 sevens and just mowed down people who were at a 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:58.399 dance festival, went into people's homes, killed whole families, kidnapped children, women, elderly. 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.120 This thing is sick and it's savage, and you really 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.400 have a battle between the forces of civilization on the 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.120 one side and the forces of barbarism, and civilization is 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.600 going to have to win. And that's exactly what we're 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.160 going to do in the days ahead. And as you 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.720 heard from Secretary of Blincoln, it may take some time, 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.400 but we're going to exact such a high price that 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.120 not only will Hamas never consider doing this again, I 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.200 think none of Israel's enemies are going to ever think 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.360 about doing something like this again, you know, and the 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.880 feeling of euphoria on the other side israelis those of 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.960 a certain age remember nineteen seventy three when a surprise 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:34.440 attack was launched against us on. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:35.240 Two different fronts. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.120 There was euphoria then for a few days, but then 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.320 Israel turned the tide and the end of the war 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:42.080 looked very different than the beginning of the war. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.000 And this is exactly what's going to happen. 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.120 Now, Minister Basin One, you've just told us. Can we 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:50.240 just assume then that a full ground invasion is inevitable. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:53.600 We're going to do whatever we have to do to 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.520 send a lesson that they're going to understand for many, 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.120 many decades, not just Hamas, not just the terror organizations 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.320 in Gaza, but all the terror organizations and all the 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.840 enemies of Israel, and Iran is the biggest enemy of all, 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.080 and they're pulling the strings behind the scenes, giving money, 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.520 giving weapons, having meetings to try to coordinate attacks in Israel, 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:15.800 and as I speak to you, Iran is trying to 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.760 push other people into the theater of war. We're going 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.040 to have to send a message to everybody because Israel, 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:23.720 you know, as you know, we're a tiny country or 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.119 about the size of New Jersey, America is about forty 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.880 times the population that we have, which goes to show 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.719 you how heinous the attack was yesterday. Because when you 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.200 have maybe one thousand people in Israel who were killed 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.520 on a single day, and your population is forty times 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.040 the size, it's around forty thousand Americans. That's more than 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.440 ten nine to eleven. So you can imagine the sense 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.560 of disgust that we have. We have to send a 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.760 message to all of Israel's enemies because we're a strong country, 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.680 but we're tiny, and we can go from strength to vulnerability. 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:53.760 I think people are going to see the strength of Israel, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.920 the might of Israel, and I hope that the wal 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.360 to Wall support that we appreciate that we had day 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.840 from the President Biden, the support on both sides of 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.680 the island Washington. I hope in the days ahead that 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.600 that support continues when Israel has to do what it 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.080 has to do in order to exact such a heavy 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.640 price from this terror organization that not only do they 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.279 not threadn us, that they don't threaten any civilized country 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.880 around the world. Believe me, this will inspire terrorists the 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.720 world over. Just like you had the Isis caliphate. It 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.039 started to do inspiring people all around the globe. The 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.839 world came together and understood they have to crush that caliphate. 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.159 We have a force like that right in our backyard, 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.160 not thousands of miles away, but right in our backyard, 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:38.520 a few meters over the borders, and we're gonna have 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.840 to crush both their capability and also their spirit. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.359 They will rule the day two days ago. We're going 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:45.360 to remember that day. 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.000 Israel will always remember that day, but all the terror 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.039 organizations around us are going to remember this period for 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.159 a very long time. And the critical miscalculation the Kamas 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.560 may thinking that it was going to be business as 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.160 usual in Israel. Believe me, it is not. The people 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.640 are outrage and they have awoken not a sleeping giant, 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:05.719 but a sleeping maccabee, and they're going to see it 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:07.040 in the days and weeks ahead. 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:11.000 Minister, you mentioned Iran. Have you seen personally or are 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.839 you aware of any evidence that Iran was directly responsible 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.920 and help coordinate these attacks over the weekend. 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.640 Well, let me tell you what we do know for sure, 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.600 But we know for sure that Iran provides ninety the 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.400 last numbers. I saw ninety three percent of the military 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:32.640 budget of Hamas is provided for by Iran. They are 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.920 trying and have worked to put weapons not in justin 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.680 to Gaza, but also in Judas, Samaria, the West Bank. 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.920 They also support hasbalas you know, on our northern border. 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:43.279 We know that as a fact. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.560 We know that Iran has coordinated meetings with all of 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.160 its terrorist proxies in the region, Hamas and Gaza and 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:54.159 another terror organization Palesiti in Islamic Jihad in Gaza and Hezbala, 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.240 almost to kind of joint operations, I don't want to 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.200 say joint operation center, but coordinated meetings. It was one 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.120 question that I'm sure you're interested in. Did they know 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:07.560 about this beforehand? Initially we didn't think that they did. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:09.760 Now there is some evidence that they might have known 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.720 about it, or we are working to verify that evidence. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.040 That's why maybe there's some conflicting reports in the press 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.720 that we don't exactly know. But now that we're looking 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:20.680 back and we're looking at all of our intel and 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.640 seeing exactly what the situation is, it's still not clear 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:23.920 to us. 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:25.280 But they might have done it. But I have to 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:25.920 tell you they. 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:30.200 Are working right now to bring more and more terror 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.600 groups into this fight. So everyone has to know it, 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.360 and it's important not just I think, to stand unequivocally 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.600 with Israel against Kamas, to call for freeing the hostages, 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.440 but also to stand unequivocally against Iran. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:42.680 You know there's going to be. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:51.720 The UN Security Council can tomorrow, Europe, France, Britain, Germany, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.040 they can work to snap bang the UN sanctions, the 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.800 Security Council sanctions against Iran. You have to enforce oil 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:01.520 sanctions against Iran. Sporting a lot of oil, They're getting 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.000 a lot of money, tens of billions of dollars. It's 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:06.800 time that the world unites against Iran because what you're 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.080 seeing today is a tentacle of an Iranian octopus, and 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.280 we have to not only cut off the tentacle, we 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.960 have to deal with the regime that is sending them. 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:17.640 And I hope that the world will stand with Israel, 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:19.440 as I said in the days and weeks ahead, to 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.360 reverse this and turn it into a victory against terrorism. 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.680 And Barbers, Minister, we have some news to work through 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.080 on our side, and I'd love to continue this conversation 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.720 with you. At the same time, according to the CBS 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.480 White House reporter or at least nine Americans were killed 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.320 in Israel. As I'm sure you know, this goes beyond 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.000 the people of Israel. The whole world is looking at 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.120 this moment. Just on Iran, you mentioned that you may 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.800 have some evidence that implicates Iran directly for the operations 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:50.400 that took place over the weekend. Could you share with 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.280 us the nature of that evidence? 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:54.559 Unfortunately I can't. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.839 If I could, I would, but I can't, and we're 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.040 going to have to look through it now. Our working 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.040 assumption is that they may have. Our working assumption a 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.640 couple of days ago was that they hadn't known about 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.160 it directly. Now it is unclear, and we'll have to 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:09.960 wait to verify it. And you know, when we make 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.320 an official statement, we'll make an official statement, but we 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.440 have to work some work through that right now, because 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:16.880 I want to make sure that when I say it, 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:18.680 we know with one hundred percent certainty. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:20.040 Now that is our working assumption. 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.480 We did hear this from the Wall Street Journal that 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.360 Iranian security officials helped plan Hamas's attacks and gave a 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.640 green light for the assault at a meeting at Beirroute 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:32.280 last Monday. According to Cedia members of Hamas and Hesbala. 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.400 Are you aware of a meeting that took place in 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:39.559 the last week between Iran and leadership of Hamas and Hespala. 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.360 They have meetings all the time, it's not secret. You 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.120 can see pictures of their meeting with Iran leadership, the 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:51.920 leadership of their Iranian Revolutionary Guard leadership, their CUDS Force leadership, 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:55.000 meeting with these other senior officials. So they've had many, many, 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.640 many meetings over the last few months, and they worked 0:09:57.720 --> 0:09:58.080 very hard. 0:09:58.120 --> 0:09:59.240 What is Iran trying to do? 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.760 Those of you, those are your viewers who know the 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.120 map of the Middle East, know that Iran supports the 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:09.120 Shield militias any rock. They are trying to establish a beachhead, 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.680 a terrorists beachhead against Israel and Syria. They support Hezballah 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.679 in Lebanon, which is the northern part of Israel. They 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.680 support both Palistin and Islami Chihad and Hamas and Gaza. 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:20.559 They support the Hutis in Yemen. 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:22.200 And what they're trying to do is put a noose 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.360 around Israel's neck with all of those terror groups there, 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.360 and we have to make sure that we break out 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.040 of that noose. And deliver such a mighty blow that 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:32.760 they're not going to forget it for generations. 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.240 Ambassador, I want to take your years of experience here, 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.760 and it's outside your remit, but I'm sure it's something 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:41.319 everyone wants to know. I can't get my head around 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:47.920 how Israel invades the Gaza Strip. Do you anticipate substantial 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:52.080 bombing and air attack or are we ready for some 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:57.840 definitive original building to building urban warfare in Gaza. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:01.920 Because I'm a member of the Security Cabinet, I'm not 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.680 going to discuss that. Let's just say we have a 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:08.280 clear goal to cripple the capabilities of Kamas and also 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.240 their will to wage war against us. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:11.720 So you're going to have to interpret that the way 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:13.080 you want it. I have to leave it at that. 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.800 But it's people who doubt Israel's capabilities are making a 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.200 huge mistake. We will do what we have to do 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.680 in order to achieve that goal, and we are going 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.720 to have to achieve this goal obviously first and foremost 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:27.920 for Israel, but it's for all of our Arab partners 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:28.800 in the region. 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:29.760 Believe me. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.160 Put aside all of those statements that are made by 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.559 foreign ministries in the region, and some of you may 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.040 have conversations with officials from the Middle East and they 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.600 may tell you a very different story about Israel than 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:43.080 they may be saying publicly. There have been times in 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.640 the past where Israel has fought with these terror organizations, 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.000 and the ones who are rooting for us usually first 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.439 and foremost are these Arab states were threatened right by 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:55.599 these jihadi forces, whether it's a Shia Jiadi force or 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.560 a Shia group like Iran and its proxies, or Sunni 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.760 group like Kamas. They don't want these forces of barbarism 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.480 to win because they threaten them, Ambassador, and this is 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.360 very just one thing, if I may, this is also 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.680 very important for the pursuit of peace eventually, because no 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.840 one is going to make peace with the week. We 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:15.960 have to be very strong, and it's strength that is 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.560 actually going to improve our chances to reach an historic 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.680 piece agreement with Saudi Arabia, which I have no doubt 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.120 is one of the reasons why this action was taken 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:23.520 at this. 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.880 Time for our audience, Ambassador Dermer, can you triangulate the 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:32.240 focus obviously on Gaza, but also now on the West 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.360 Bank in a fractious northern border with Lebanon. How will 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.360 Israel affect a three front war. 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.800 Well, we have to ensure that our force structure is 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:47.520 done in a certain way that we can deal with 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.559 any threats that would materialize. And you say, quite rightly, 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.400 we have issues on the northern border. We had sirens 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.800 there just about an hour ago, we had an attack 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.760 there yesterday. There are different attempts for attacks, so we 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.240 have to be clear on a northern border that we 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.600 have all the capabilities we need to defend ourselves. As 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.520 you know, the United States brought a carrier group into 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.079 the eastern Mediterranean. I think that sends a very strong 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.680 message to DeTar our enemies and it makes it clear 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.920 that America backs Israel. And again we're deeply appreciative of 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.480 a Bide administration for doing that. I think it makes 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.240 the chances of war less likely, not more likely. And 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:22.959 of course, as you said, in the West Bank, in 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.440 Judaan and Samaria, we've had terror actions that have happened there, 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:27.560 and we have an iro on that. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:28.920 We have to have our eye on. 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.200 A sort of a three hundred and sixty radius in 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.520 order to deal with all these different challenges. But I'll 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.240 tell you the chances of having a multi front row 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.280 grow when people see Israel as being vulnerable. So the 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.200 stronger and faster we act, the more it will send 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.240 a message of strength and purpose, and that message is 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.920 critical to actually ultimately de escalate the situation and prevent 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.959 these things from happening for many, many decades. This is 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.400 an attack, I want to say it again, the lights 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.679 of which has never happened in this state of Israel. 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.560 We may have lost a thousand people in a single day, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.319 ambassament has never happened in the state of Israel. 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.920 Ambassador, there's a big question around Saudi Arabia, and that 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.199 talks about normalizing relations. I know you've been involved with those, 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.600 and it seems like those are at least iced in 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.120 the near term. Saudi Arabia put out a statement saying 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.800 that it repeated its warnings of the dangers of the 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.360 explosion of the situation as a result of the continued 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:28.400 occupation and deprivation of the Palestinian people of their legitimate rights. 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.480 How much do you see this as really precluding additional 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.880 discussions with Saudi Arabia and making this kind of normalization 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.760 talk not viable in the near term. 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.520 Well, a lot of people were surprised by the Abraham Accords, 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.480 you know a few years ago when no one thought 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.440 that that could possibly happen, but Israel proved itself. It's strength, frankly, 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.760 it's security strength, it's economic vitality. I think that's what 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.600 made those accords ultimately possible. I think the critical question 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:57.400 of whether we're going to be able to achieve this 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.640 historic piece with Saudi Arabia that that pulls pushs the 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.680 whole Arab is rarely conflicted to a completely different place 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.160 and can lead to a broader reconciliation between Muslims and 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.480 Jews as well. The critical factor will be how Israel 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.640 emerges from this fight, or do we emerge as a victor. 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:19.160 Because people make peace with winners, people make peace with 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.160 a strong, they do not make peace with the weak. 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:22.560 And that will be the critical factor. 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.760 I'm telling you, take all the statements, all the diplomatic 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.960 statements that have been made, put them aside. It's not relevant. 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.800 I think there are many Arab partners in this region 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.480 that want a different future, that are thinking about what's 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.800 going to happen in twenty thirty forty years down the 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:38.480 road when oil doesn't have the. 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.840 Value to their countries that it has today. 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.680 They need a partner in Israel that can help strengthen 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.200 their own national security, that could help their own national prosperity. 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:48.960 You saw a few weeks ago with the G twenty 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.320 when several countries, the United States, European countries, India launched 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.160 this vision of an economic. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:57.640 Corridor that would go. 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:03.400 From India through the Arabian Peninsula into Israel and towards Europe. 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.840 I mean, that's a game changer, an economic game changer 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:07.880 for the region. And I think the Saudis have great 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.080 plans for building their country. And believe me, there are 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.080 a lot of people in a lot of places in 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.160 the Middle East, no matter what they say publicly or 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.160 rooting for Israel to win, and I think they're gonna 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:21.400 get exactly what they want. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:23.960 Minister, Just to wrap things up, because I know you 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.160 have to go one final question, winning, how do you 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.040 define victory in a moment like this one? 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:36.600 Like I said, you have to cripple their capability and 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.400 you have to crush their will to do such an 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:43.080 action for decades and decades to come, not just Hamas 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:47.040 and palisining Islamichi Hat, but also other terror organizations in 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.480 the region. We rely as a small country on our deterrence, 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.720 but deterrence doesn't last forever. You have to exercise power 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.440 and force to always make clear to your enemies that 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:58.560 you're prepared to fight. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.440 Not only do you have the capability, but you have 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:01.360 the will to fight. 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:05.880 And our enemies Camas obviously miscalculated here because if they 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.119 think that this action that they just took and murdering 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:14.160 a thousand Israelis and just shooting our civilians and taking 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:18.040 scores of people hostage and having over maybe three thousand 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:19.879 people who are wounded, that this is going to be 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.119 business as usual, they just have no idea who the 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.040 people of Israel are, and I think they're going to 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:26.320 find out in the days ahead. 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.919 Minister, We appreciate your time this morning, got a very 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.400 difficult time for your country, and hopefully we can catch 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.840 up against soon. Run term of that, the Israeli Minister 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.160 of Strategic Affairs. 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:50.720 We forget in seventy three that Israeli forces got within 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.800 X miles of Damascus to the north and they made 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.639 it to the Suez Canal in over the Suez Canal 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.000 in seventy That's a bit of history that I think 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.080 people really are wide on this all comes up to 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.280 the geopolitics of the region. Expert on this and a 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:12.000 good friend of Bloomberg's surveillance is Ellen Wald, Senior Fellow 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:17.679 at Atlantic Council. Her book Saudi Inc. Is Definitive on hydrocarbons. Ellen, 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.000 thank you so much for joining this morning. Really really 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:22.439 a timely to have. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:23.520 You with us. 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.639 How does Israel get its oil? Are they in some 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.120 way oil independent? 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:34.359 They're not really oil independent. Israel actually does or used 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.240 to get quite a bit of oil from the kurdis 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.359 Dan region of Iraq. It was shipped out via the 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:45.200 Jehan pipeline from the port of Jehan in Turkey to 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.840 ports in Israel, to Haifa and to other ports. I 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.639 don't think Israel's particularly concerned about getting oil or making 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:55.719 sure that they have enough oil at this point. 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:56.280 Though. 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.560 One interesting point that has just come up is that 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.280 Israel asked Chevron to shut down the operation of the 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:08.040 Tamar gas field platform, which is out in the Mediterranean 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.479 in the northern part of Israel. And to me, that 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.720 says that either they think that there could potentially be 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:20.480 some sort of terrorist attack on that platform, which potentially 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.880 either from Iran or Hisbela, which I would say definitely 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:28.400 signals to me a widening of this highly regional conflict 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.760 and something that actually could be a potential threat to 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.439 oil markets, to gas markets, especially if you consider that, 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.720 like you said, the Suez Canal is not all that far. 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:43.520 To take it to Saudi Arabia and your expertise there. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.879 Which part of Palestine do Saudi Arabia does the Royal 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.119 family support, That's a great question. 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:55.480 And they're definitely much more interested in the Palestinian authority 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.280 run parts the West Bank than they are with Hamas, 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:04.040 Hamas and Saudi Raba. They see Hamas as a very 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:09.680 destabilizing element. Especially the Saudi monarchy does not like terrorists. 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:11.879 Terrorists are just as much a threat to them and 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.000 to their stability as they are to other areas. So 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.280 you know, and what's interesting is that they keep pushing 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:24.760 for this region two state solution, regional peace agreement. They 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:29.439 have always said that their recognition of Israel depends upon 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:33.800 a regional peace deal and two state solution, which is 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:35.840 one of the reasons why I think it hasn't really 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.160 gone very far and haven't seen very much, because that's 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.359 not something that Israel or that the US is really 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.480 prepared to push for at this point, the question is 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.960