Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runt Hog,
Speaker 1: but enough about me. My guest today is fused bone
Speaker 1: crunching riffs, radio friendly hooks, and theatrical flair to become
Speaker 1: one of the most exciting acts and metal Rolling Stone
Speaker 1: recently dubbed his group the New Kings of Occult Rock
Speaker 1: for the Satanic Pope guys he wears for his electrifying
Speaker 1: live performances. The Garb underscore is what you may call
Speaker 1: his complicated relationship with Christianity. Hailing from Sweden or melodic
Speaker 1: craftsmanship seems to be part of the national identity. He's
Speaker 1: gone by a new name for each of his albums.
Speaker 1: He was Papa Emeritus the first, the second, the third,
Speaker 1: and most recently Cardinal Copia for his last record, which
Speaker 1: explored the medieval black plague, fittingly released just before the
Speaker 1: world was shut down for a global pandemic. He embodies
Speaker 1: the character of Papua Emeritus the fourth on his latest album, Impara.
Speaker 1: It's a philosophically complex study of the rise and fall
Speaker 1: of empires, inspired in part by Timothy Parsons book The
Speaker 1: Rule of Empires. Those who built them, those who endured them,
Speaker 1: and why they always fall. Given the tenuous geopolitical situation
Speaker 1: at the moment, his timing seems spot on. I'm so
Speaker 1: happy to welcome the mastermind behind Ghost to Bias Ford.
Speaker 1: The last time you wrapped a tour for your last album,
Speaker 1: which was set in uh the medieval Time of Black Death,
Speaker 1: was just days before the world shut down for a
Speaker 1: global pandemic. And now, in this time of global turmoil
Speaker 1: and Eastern Europe, you're gearing up to release an album
Speaker 1: that explores the rise and fall of empires. Uh. Your
Speaker 1: timing is certainly spot on, though I hope it doesn't
Speaker 1: set the tone for the next two years. Um. There's
Speaker 1: something you said in a recent interview that I thought
Speaker 1: was so interesting and that it really comes through in
Speaker 1: your lyrics. We tend to disregard the cyclical nature of history,
Speaker 1: and today review empires as these static, permanent things, which
Speaker 1: ignores several millennia of human history. What led you to
Speaker 1: tackle the subject on empera Because it's interesting, it's but
Speaker 1: it's also uh, It's it's also um current and ever
Speaker 1: ever current, omni omni current, and I think that that's
Speaker 1: why we we received the news of the world in
Speaker 1: a peaval or let's specifically say the Western world and
Speaker 1: the people with such a shock because it it's close
Speaker 1: to home rather than in some desert somewhere. Um. And
Speaker 1: and it's um fascinating, uh, mixed with horror obviously because
Speaker 1: I am also I'm just a person in the Western
Speaker 1: world who loves sucking ark music. I also need the
Speaker 1: world to function the way it it does and that
Speaker 1: and that it has been throughout our lives. I wanted
Speaker 1: to stay like that. So I don't want it to end.
Speaker 1: I don't want it to I want to want certain
Speaker 1: things to change, but I want ideally, I want the
Speaker 1: clock to turn back to and just stay like that forever.
Speaker 1: That would be great. That was interesting that you set
Speaker 1: the album in in Victorian times. What was it about
Speaker 1: that era that that fascinated you. I guess the industrial
Speaker 1: revolution from that period probably set in motion a lot
Speaker 1: of the problems that continue to reverberate to this day.
Speaker 1: I mean, sometimes you just do something because it looks cool. Um,
Speaker 1: it's just a it's just a visually pleasing time period
Speaker 1: because it has that um mixture of sort of old
Speaker 1: goth mixed of industrialism specifically. Actually I got the idea
Speaker 1: not for the Imperial Record. I already already knew that
Speaker 1: since many years back. But I got the idea, the
Speaker 1: visual idea um just in the beginning. It was just
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the pre Kailum promo campaign and
Speaker 1: I had a day off, no or no a day off.
Speaker 1: I had a promo day in London and I was
Speaker 1: actually just for some reason, I was staying up at
Speaker 1: the King's Cross or at the St. Pancras station, and
Speaker 1: that looks like power move around there. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: came in and I was I was going into St.
Speaker 1: Pancras station because there's a lot of stores there. I
Speaker 1: think I was just walking into two buy coffee or something,
Speaker 1: and I just went in. I mean obviously been there
Speaker 1: many times. I've taken the train from there to to
Speaker 1: Paris many times. But I just spent a few it's
Speaker 1: just looking up a little just not doing anything. And
Speaker 1: I just noticed this sort of mixture between the gothic
Speaker 1: stony church like um Wall and they had with the
Speaker 1: massive industrial ceiling, very tory in and and it just
Speaker 1: walking out of there, it was just like, that's exactly
Speaker 1: what we're doing next. Time, Um, because I saw the
Speaker 1: mixture was so cool, and that once an idea like
Speaker 1: that drops, it's just like it just opens up this
Speaker 1: big branch. It just branches out very quickly in my head.
Speaker 1: And we have presented a little bit of that on
Speaker 1: this work, but it's going to be I think even
Speaker 1: more in the future. Oh, it's it's so cinematic. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I saw some of your your promo in
Speaker 1: uh in London for for this album. It's projected onto
Speaker 1: some buildings there, and it does it looks like it
Speaker 1: looks like a movie. It's like right out of some
Speaker 1: Bramstrokes Jacula or something. Mean, it looks so cool. Uh.
Speaker 1: Something that I just appreciate about your storytelling is that
Speaker 1: it's not narrative in the strict sense, with a beginning, middle,
Speaker 1: and end like a film plot, But it's more of
Speaker 1: an exploration of a given topic from all these different angles,
Speaker 1: like a variation on a theme, and you get so
Speaker 1: many interesting points of view that way. Um, was this
Speaker 1: album sort of almost like a warning in a way.
Speaker 1: I almost got the sense that the theme was those
Speaker 1: who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it
Speaker 1: if you will. Yeah, I mean it's I think that
Speaker 1: all of our records have been alarming, all are missed
Speaker 1: in a way a new word that everybody knows nowadays. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think that the reason why this record sounds
Speaker 1: uh additionally alarmist is probably because of its uh timing,
Speaker 1: the same way that precal As you said, I had
Speaker 1: a sort of clairvoyance over it. Um. But I think
Speaker 1: that the theme hasn't really changed much from throughout the records.
Speaker 1: It's it's always been sort of shining a light onto
Speaker 1: the murkiness of linear religion really linear um life codes
Speaker 1: um and the the destructive elements of of structural religion
Speaker 1: slash society. And by saying that, you cannot avoid saying
Speaker 1: political because it's that's what it is, vat it can
Speaker 1: and church and the Bible was put together for political reasons.
Speaker 1: So yes, it's it's all about that. It's all about that.
Speaker 1: It's never been anything about It has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with God or anything. It was just to to to
Speaker 1: control people, to control this cult that they needed to
Speaker 1: have on their side, and just made things easier for me.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have that. It wasn't like that this record
Speaker 1: felt like it was taking everything to or two, and
Speaker 1: not new in a new direction. It was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, just maybe you just get a little bit
Speaker 1: more poignant or or um with age or with age
Speaker 1: or rage, you just get a little bit more like
Speaker 1: to the point. But thematically it doesn't really differ much
Speaker 1: from the first two records, the first being always a
Speaker 1: little bit more vitious and a little bit just like
Speaker 1: throwing fun words into play, but the second one where
Speaker 1: the lyrics were a little bit more uh realistic, if
Speaker 1: you will. I don't want to say that, but it's
Speaker 1: you know, there was always like an ambigus ambiguity between
Speaker 1: you know, the fictional world of of interesting Latin I
Speaker 1: Latin based words that you sort of associate with the
Speaker 1: with golf and death metal and all that, but I
Speaker 1: also had an undertone of something streaked in there. Um.
Speaker 1: But if you, if you want to, you can just
Speaker 1: turn around, if you if you if you're one of
Speaker 1: those people who are like, we're a rock band, should
Speaker 1: talk about a fucking politics, you can just you can
Speaker 1: just easily see it for what it is. It's forty
Speaker 1: minutes of rock music. It's just a fucking rock record.
Speaker 1: That's what we do. We we play rock music. And
Speaker 1: then we go out on tour. That's that's what we do.
Speaker 1: I mean, these songs, they just sound so enormous. I
Speaker 1: mean they sound custom made to be played at stadiums.
Speaker 1: At what point in your writing process do you begin
Speaker 1: to think of an audience. Are you thinking early on,
Speaker 1: as you're putting, you know, the riffs together and writing
Speaker 1: the track, how they'll respond and how we'll go over
Speaker 1: on stage or does that come later and in the
Speaker 1: beginning are you just kind of emoting I think, as
Speaker 1: any architect that you you will at some point, even
Speaker 1: when you're creating your idea, think of practical things like
Speaker 1: this giant slab of concrete cannot float in thin air?
Speaker 1: Or can it? You know, yes it can. If we
Speaker 1: hide this underneath it, it will look like it's floating
Speaker 1: in thin air. But you don't just disregard the fact
Speaker 1: that a giant concrete slab will sucking, not just elevate,
Speaker 1: and that that is you You do think about that
Speaker 1: when you're writing songs. If you if you are a band,
Speaker 1: if you write songs to be performed, there will be
Speaker 1: at some point a practical evaluation of the track. How
Speaker 1: does this work out? How how do we play this,
Speaker 1: How will how will it sound? How will this translate?
Speaker 1: Is this understandable? It's just and but but I so
Speaker 1: did grindcore bands as well. You you orgonomically need to
Speaker 1: figure the song out to make it feel a certain way.
Speaker 1: And and that's that's what's what's arranging songs and for
Speaker 1: an ensemble is it's to how to coordinate it to
Speaker 1: be performed. And uh, you know most bands do. And
Speaker 1: I mean even I don't know if the Shacks had it,
Speaker 1: had it like uh and go with because it sounded
Speaker 1: it like that. They just started making noise and that
Speaker 1: became entertainment as well. So it's you don't always have
Speaker 1: to if you don't want to. But if you if
Speaker 1: you're if you have your if the expectancy is for
Speaker 1: people to show up and and dance along to your music,
Speaker 1: it will greatly benefit if you sort of have that
Speaker 1: in mind. I love that you just referenced the Shags.
Speaker 1: I love that album so much. Uh yeah, me too good.
Speaker 1: It's it's the utmost perfected manifestation of exactly the opposite
Speaker 1: of everything I spoke of. It's just it's an endurance
Speaker 1: test to listen to for anyone listening right now who
Speaker 1: hasn't heard that check it out. Uh. They are a
Speaker 1: group of I I think teen girls in the late
Speaker 1: sixties whom I think their father had a vision. If
Speaker 1: I recall that, they that that that God wanted them
Speaker 1: to be in a band, and so he gave them
Speaker 1: instruments without really instructing them. And it's just pure it's punk,
Speaker 1: maybe twelve years early, I guess. As a way of
Speaker 1: thinking about it, it's definitely Uh, it's an interesting sound, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it definitely it definitely sounds like they just pressed
Speaker 1: the record button and then they took up the instrument
Speaker 1: for the first time in their lives. And me and
Speaker 1: my daughter sits and listen to that in the car
Speaker 1: all the time. My friend foot food food, food, food, food.
Speaker 1: It's Halloween, and it's impossible even if you're if you're
Speaker 1: somewhat musical, it's still like an completely not You cannot
Speaker 1: sing a long to it. You can just mimic the
Speaker 1: sounds and just sort of like, uh, sort of do
Speaker 1: wonky moves, and but it's it's entertainment and that is
Speaker 1: what music is, regardless off you're listening to Fucking Yes
Speaker 1: or the Shags, It's meant to entertain you. So they did.
Speaker 1: They did exactly. They wanted to be rock band and
Speaker 1: they played rock music to make people smile, and they do.
Speaker 1: They still do, and that's fifty five years ago whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, so that's pure as well. We said starting
Speaker 1: this conversation, you you just wrapped the first leg of
Speaker 1: your tour playing I know you opened the show with
Speaker 1: Kasian and played a lot of songs from the new
Speaker 1: album that's not out yet. What was the feedback like
Speaker 1: from the crowd on these new songs that, in a
Speaker 1: lot of cases they had never heard before. Huntress Moon
Speaker 1: has obviously I've been out for quite a while, so
Speaker 1: that that really feels like one of our like regulars
Speaker 1: now Kayserrian was, I mean, I know, not to sound
Speaker 1: fucking cocky or anything, but you know, I knew there
Speaker 1: was a good song and it's a big opener, so
Speaker 1: it's like I knew that people will like it, people
Speaker 1: should like it, therefore we're playing it. And but we
Speaker 1: already knew beforehand that people were going to be a
Speaker 1: little bit of non responsive, if you will, the same
Speaker 1: same way that they were to Spirit when we started
Speaker 1: playing that in on the Maliora cycle before the album
Speaker 1: came out the same way that people reacted to Parispera
Speaker 1: and in Ferry. Sorry, we just say Parispera. So I
Speaker 1: never I have said the full title in ten years.
Speaker 1: Um we we did that as well. So we we've
Speaker 1: done that so many times, like coming out on stage
Speaker 1: on a news cycle with a big opener on a
Speaker 1: record that you haven't heard yet. Um. So it's it's
Speaker 1: almost like a tradition. Um. And it always turns into
Speaker 1: the same sort of, uh, you know, deer in headlights
Speaker 1: sort of situation in the beginning, and then when we
Speaker 1: go from the first song into Rats, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the crowd sort of what becomes comes a lot. But
Speaker 1: that's fine, they'll they'll learn. You mentioned Hunter's mood. I
Speaker 1: meant to mention this earlier. I want to congratulate you
Speaker 1: for having that in the soundtrack to the Lace Halloween
Speaker 1: movie Halloween Kills over the over the end credits, which
Speaker 1: is like prime soundtrack spot. That must have been a
Speaker 1: cool moment for you as a as a big horror fan.
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, I know what. I don't know what
Speaker 1: to say more than that, of course, it was a
Speaker 1: big thing. Uh. I've always been ever since I was
Speaker 1: a kid watching these films and you sort of uh
Speaker 1: noticed the um the connection obviously, I mean big, big examples.
Speaker 1: So that was obviously Man Behind the Mask and Friday
Speaker 1: six with It, yeah, or something like that. And I've
Speaker 1: always been in awe of of of horror film music,
Speaker 1: but the way that a lot of rock bands source
Speaker 1: associated with the horror I liked A Night of Living
Speaker 1: Dead obviously was no Return of the Living Dead, sorry,
Speaker 1: Return of the Living Dead. The eighties sort of comic
Speaker 1: comedic horror film I'll you know, obviously had this uh
Speaker 1: great display of a lot of cool rock and punk bands.
Speaker 1: So that was always something that I wanted to do,
Speaker 1: which is cool. I say, could you ever uh following
Speaker 1: the footsteps of like John Carpenter and see yourself writing
Speaker 1: a script for horror movie or something like that. I'm
Speaker 1: very interested in the cinematic world. I don't know if
Speaker 1: if I were given the card blanche to sort of
Speaker 1: go in head first into cinema, I don't know if
Speaker 1: horror films would be my first get to go to. Actually,
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, I am a giant fan of horror, but
Speaker 1: that was that would not be my first I am
Speaker 1: more of a UM. If I were to make films,
Speaker 1: it would be more in in some some weird universe
Speaker 1: between UM and and you know, with with the quirky
Speaker 1: and gothic sort of little shadow of Lynch, but in
Speaker 1: the quirkiness of Wes Anderson and and you know, more
Speaker 1: of the Cohen Brothers, more more comedic. But anything could happen,
Speaker 1: sort of mixture between everything. I'm way more like a
Speaker 1: mishmash sort of person person sets in there too. I
Speaker 1: feel like I can see a little bit of that
Speaker 1: maybe yeah, but never. I don't think I would ever
Speaker 1: go into like full on or just just for the
Speaker 1: sake of it being scary. It would be, but in
Speaker 1: the film by me, it would would definitely like if
Speaker 1: someone died, it would be like in a horrifically bloody
Speaker 1: way just because it's that would be a fun way
Speaker 1: to sort of just incorporate an element of splatter um.
Speaker 1: But the story itself would be sort of comedic, tragic
Speaker 1: and romantic, in some sort of weird fairy tale of
Speaker 1: complete un real. Dude, is m hearing you talk about
Speaker 1: the kind of ideal movie you would like to make.
Speaker 1: I'm so interested in just your incredibly diverse influences. I
Speaker 1: love that you close your shows with Emmy Lou Harris's
Speaker 1: Sorrow and the Winds, which is not something that you know,
Speaker 1: people would traditionally associate with with you know, hard rock
Speaker 1: and roll in metal. UM. I know you've cited people
Speaker 1: like Blue Oyster Colt and you play a Metallica cover
Speaker 1: on this recent tour, but you've also cited tore Amos
Speaker 1: and Andrew Lloyd Webber's influences. What is it about someone
Speaker 1: like Andrew Lloyd Webber who who really inspires you? Somebody
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't have automatically thought would be an influence
Speaker 1: of yours because you write hit songs. I think that
Speaker 1: there are there are several uh what do you call,
Speaker 1: like YouTube profiles that likes to to make um, you
Speaker 1: know me musical versions of of anything, and even though
Speaker 1: that they are joking, I think that there are a
Speaker 1: lot of musicals that are written that way because people
Speaker 1: think that if you were in the musical, you talk
Speaker 1: about this and you point over there and it's it's
Speaker 1: so bad that I, you know, I just want to puke. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: a few films that have been made like as musicals
Speaker 1: are also like insanely bad, even when it's people that
Speaker 1: I would expect to do better, And whereas Andrew Lloyd
Speaker 1: Webber has done, it's like normal talking and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden they erupt into a song. And when
Speaker 1: they erupt into a song, it's memories or Music of
Speaker 1: the Night, Phantom of the Opera, the song that's our
Speaker 1: fucking that. They are fucking smash hits. So if you're
Speaker 1: making theater or and it goes into musicals, and and
Speaker 1: I prefer it when like each track is like a banger,
Speaker 1: it needs to be like a real proper standalone uh
Speaker 1: song from the radio. And that's what separates his music
Speaker 1: so for much from from the the standard musical, because
Speaker 1: a lot of the standard musical are are very generic.
Speaker 1: It's a style of music which to compare it to
Speaker 1: to horror films. And this is where um, if if
Speaker 1: if I would, if I were to talk about not
Speaker 1: the use not the horror genre in general, where that
Speaker 1: sort of comes in different uh time periods and all that,
Speaker 1: but if because they're there are a lot of Italian
Speaker 1: and eighties horror that I like for maybe different reasons
Speaker 1: than saying that the films are rate. They might be entertaining,
Speaker 1: but they might not be great cinematic crafts, Whereas the
Speaker 1: best cinematic films, the best horror films I know, are
Speaker 1: made by people who or creators who aren't necessarily into
Speaker 1: making horror in the first place. And you know the
Speaker 1: Horror Efficionados and that's not a horror film, Yes they are, so,
Speaker 1: The Exorcist, Jaws, Shining Dracula, one of my favorite films
Speaker 1: of all time. All of these films are one of
Speaker 1: my favorite films, favorite films of all time. But they
Speaker 1: were all way it made by people who normally does
Speaker 1: not do horror, and that's what made them so great,
Speaker 1: because they take all the horror and in all these
Speaker 1: elements that they and they they turn it into the
Speaker 1: best horror film they can ever must stir with drama
Speaker 1: and ah humor and comedy and romance and and and
Speaker 1: really deepened like character um materialization, if you will. Wherever,
Speaker 1: but and and whereas so much of the crap of
Speaker 1: horror is because they are made by people who just
Speaker 1: watched horror, who became uh filmmakers to make horror. So
Speaker 1: it's all just a regurgitation of of of of the genre.
Speaker 1: And that's the same thing with a lot of heavy
Speaker 1: metal and death metal and all that. It's just like
Speaker 1: it's just repeated, uh, indulgent sort of homaging, which which
Speaker 1: is which is not the foundation that you want to
Speaker 1: build on if you want to take the genre forward
Speaker 1: or add anything valuable to that, you're just echoing it.
Speaker 1: And I think it's the same thing with a lot
Speaker 1: of musicals. Um that some people are some people are
Speaker 1: just so fascinated with the format that anything that resembles
Speaker 1: that just qualifies that because it's just the sound of
Speaker 1: a musical. How are you you? I'm standing here? How
Speaker 1: about yourself? Are you not? Um? And it's I hate that.
Speaker 1: I absolutely fucking hate ship like that. It's horrible. And
Speaker 1: but that's why Andrew Lloyd Webber seemed to be. He
Speaker 1: seemed to be like very much like Sammy Cooper. I
Speaker 1: think he listens to a lot of other things and
Speaker 1: then he writes the musical here and there and that
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's such a beautiful way to get
Speaker 1: back into all of your influ just too. I mean
Speaker 1: on a track like spill Ways, that that piano part,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that could be you know, something straight
Speaker 1: out of Aba or something like that too, and it's
Speaker 1: it's so beautiful when juxtaposed with these huge heavy riffs too.
Speaker 1: I love that interplay and to to to have all
Speaker 1: these influences come together, it's it's it's its own unique thing.
Speaker 1: Like you said, it's not just you know, regurgitation from
Speaker 1: what became before and just because you're so in love
Speaker 1: with that genre. It's all the things that you love
Speaker 1: and you've built something new out of it. And that's
Speaker 1: what is amazing with what you do, in particular with
Speaker 1: this new record. I really think that comes across. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: speaking of regurgitation to the point where it's almost vomiting
Speaker 1: onto myself actually would be my constant whacking off over
Speaker 1: abba um, which you you sort of shown a little
Speaker 1: light on there because Um, I've found myself constantly sort
Speaker 1: of trailing them, not only because I'm a big fan,
Speaker 1: but how we have sort of ended up in there
Speaker 1: in the same studios as they have, and that has
Speaker 1: been sort of a ah, a little bit of a thing.
Speaker 1: Um where you know, um in Pera was recorded in
Speaker 1: uh studio Atlantis, which back in the day, if you
Speaker 1: start looking through the records, you will see there was
Speaker 1: called metronome back in the day, and that's where recorded
Speaker 1: most of their big hits. And if you if you
Speaker 1: go online kids and you see the clip where abbas
Speaker 1: recording Dancing Queen, that's exactly the studio that we recorded
Speaker 1: in Para and the same mixing console, the same gadgets
Speaker 1: in the background, the same microphones, everything, And I have
Speaker 1: to confess it's the same piano, and it's the same aremba. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's the same big you know, con sir on
Speaker 1: the record that they had on on Money, Money Money,
Speaker 1: for example, I think it was and Mama Mea I
Speaker 1: was recorded there DoD DoD DoD, doom ding, doom ding,
Speaker 1: doom ding, doomding. That's the same thing. So it's during
Speaker 1: the recording, it was always like a little bit of
Speaker 1: that vibe. You have to go over to the murmba
Speaker 1: and play Mama Mia and uh. And later this year,
Speaker 1: not to go into any detail about it, but into
Speaker 1: into another studio to record something else, and that was
Speaker 1: the studio where they recorded the album UM. So that
Speaker 1: would be take a chance on Me and Eagle was
Speaker 1: in that studio. UM. And then to make things even
Speaker 1: more funny, as like almost like a little time lapse
Speaker 1: was the fact that we recorded Meliora in Benny Anderson's
Speaker 1: own studio where they after us, where they after us
Speaker 1: recorded the new Alma Alma record. Wow. But yeah, we've
Speaker 1: shared shared studios three times. I've I've heard um that
Speaker 1: you're already got your eye towards the next project, chapter
Speaker 1: chapter six, whatever that may be. Do you have any
Speaker 1: hints of of what's to come? Uh? No, I want
Speaker 1: to give that away yet understood. Oh, Tobias, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for your time today. I want to take
Speaker 1: up too much more of your time, but it's been
Speaker 1: such a pleasure speaking you. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: your time on your music. Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio,
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