WEBVTT - Tobias Forge of Ghost 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:04.800 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:08.200 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runt Hog, 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.720 but enough about me. My guest today is fused bone 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.440 crunching riffs, radio friendly hooks, and theatrical flair to become 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.680 one of the most exciting acts and metal Rolling Stone 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:21.400 recently dubbed his group the New Kings of Occult Rock 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.480 for the Satanic Pope guys he wears for his electrifying 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.960 live performances. The Garb underscore is what you may call 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:32.800 his complicated relationship with Christianity. Hailing from Sweden or melodic 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.760 craftsmanship seems to be part of the national identity. He's 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:37.879 gone by a new name for each of his albums. 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.600 He was Papa Emeritus the first, the second, the third, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.160 and most recently Cardinal Copia for his last record, which 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.839 explored the medieval black plague, fittingly released just before the 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.400 world was shut down for a global pandemic. He embodies 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.520 the character of Papua Emeritus the fourth on his latest album, Impara. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.280 It's a philosophically complex study of the rise and fall 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.680 of empires, inspired in part by Timothy Parsons book The 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.319 Rule of Empires. Those who built them, those who endured them, 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.720 and why they always fall. Given the tenuous geopolitical situation 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.280 at the moment, his timing seems spot on. I'm so 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.640 happy to welcome the mastermind behind Ghost to Bias Ford. 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.039 The last time you wrapped a tour for your last album, 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.160 which was set in uh the medieval Time of Black Death, 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.680 was just days before the world shut down for a 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.839 global pandemic. And now, in this time of global turmoil 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.119 and Eastern Europe, you're gearing up to release an album 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.200 that explores the rise and fall of empires. Uh. Your 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.480 timing is certainly spot on, though I hope it doesn't 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.040 set the tone for the next two years. Um. There's 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:49.760 something you said in a recent interview that I thought 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:51.640 was so interesting and that it really comes through in 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.240 your lyrics. We tend to disregard the cyclical nature of history, 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.320 and today review empires as these static, permanent things, which 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.000 ignores several millennia of human history. What led you to 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:10.560 tackle the subject on empera Because it's interesting, it's but 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:19.520 it's also uh, It's it's also um current and ever 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:25.880 ever current, omni omni current, and I think that that's 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.679 why we we received the news of the world in 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:33.520 a peaval or let's specifically say the Western world and 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:39.919 the people with such a shock because it it's close 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:46.120 to home rather than in some desert somewhere. Um. And 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:53.799 and it's um fascinating, uh, mixed with horror obviously because 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.280 I am also I'm just a person in the Western 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:02.520 world who loves sucking ark music. I also need the 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.640 world to function the way it it does and that 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:10.920 and that it has been throughout our lives. I wanted 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.840 to stay like that. So I don't want it to end. 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.040 I don't want it to I want to want certain 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.960 things to change, but I want ideally, I want the 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.240 clock to turn back to and just stay like that forever. 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.440 That would be great. That was interesting that you set 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.240 the album in in Victorian times. What was it about 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.160 that era that that fascinated you. I guess the industrial 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.960 revolution from that period probably set in motion a lot 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:39.960 of the problems that continue to reverberate to this day. 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:45.920 I mean, sometimes you just do something because it looks cool. Um, 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:50.960 it's just a it's just a visually pleasing time period 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:57.280 because it has that um mixture of sort of old 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:05.680 goth mixed of industrialism specifically. Actually I got the idea 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.160 not for the Imperial Record. I already already knew that 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.760 since many years back. But I got the idea, the 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.280 visual idea um just in the beginning. It was just 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:22.280 in the beginning of the pre Kailum promo campaign and 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.120 I had a day off, no or no a day off. 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:28.160 I had a promo day in London and I was 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.120 actually just for some reason, I was staying up at 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:36.640 the King's Cross or at the St. Pancras station, and 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:41.400 that looks like power move around there. Yeah, And I 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:43.360 came in and I was I was going into St. 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.000 Pancras station because there's a lot of stores there. I 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:51.080 think I was just walking into two buy coffee or something, 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.600 and I just went in. I mean obviously been there 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:55.800 many times. I've taken the train from there to to 0:04:55.920 --> 0:05:00.200 Paris many times. But I just spent a few it's 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.520 just looking up a little just not doing anything. And 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.400 I just noticed this sort of mixture between the gothic 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:12.359 stony church like um Wall and they had with the 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:18.040 massive industrial ceiling, very tory in and and it just 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.120 walking out of there, it was just like, that's exactly 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.480 what we're doing next. Time, Um, because I saw the 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.680 mixture was so cool, and that once an idea like 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.160 that drops, it's just like it just opens up this 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:36.920 big branch. It just branches out very quickly in my head. 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:42.120 And we have presented a little bit of that on 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.599 this work, but it's going to be I think even 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.680 more in the future. Oh, it's it's so cinematic. I mean, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.600 I think I saw some of your your promo in 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.760 uh in London for for this album. It's projected onto 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:55.840 some buildings there, and it does it looks like it 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:57.600 looks like a movie. It's like right out of some 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.840 Bramstrokes Jacula or something. Mean, it looks so cool. Uh. 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.840 Something that I just appreciate about your storytelling is that 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.200 it's not narrative in the strict sense, with a beginning, middle, 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.640 and end like a film plot, But it's more of 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.599 an exploration of a given topic from all these different angles, 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.760 like a variation on a theme, and you get so 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.200 many interesting points of view that way. Um, was this 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.480 album sort of almost like a warning in a way. 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.520 I almost got the sense that the theme was those 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.680 who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:33.080 if you will. Yeah, I mean it's I think that 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.880 all of our records have been alarming, all are missed 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:41.560 in a way a new word that everybody knows nowadays. Um. 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.159 But I think that the reason why this record sounds 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:55.039 uh additionally alarmist is probably because of its uh timing, 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:57.880 the same way that precal As you said, I had 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:02.440 a sort of clairvoyance over it. Um. But I think 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:07.160 that the theme hasn't really changed much from throughout the records. 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:12.120 It's it's always been sort of shining a light onto 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:21.960 the murkiness of linear religion really linear um life codes 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:32.800 um and the the destructive elements of of structural religion 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:39.320 slash society. And by saying that, you cannot avoid saying 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.720 political because it's that's what it is, vat it can 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:50.200 and church and the Bible was put together for political reasons. 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.640 So yes, it's it's all about that. It's all about that. 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.760 It's never been anything about It has nothing to do 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:01.480 with God or anything. It was just to to to 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.680 control people, to control this cult that they needed to 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.600 have on their side, and just made things easier for me. 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.280 It doesn't have that. It wasn't like that this record 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.240 felt like it was taking everything to or two, and 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.520 not new in a new direction. It was just like, 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.320 you know, just maybe you just get a little bit 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:28.080 more poignant or or um with age or with age 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.840 or rage, you just get a little bit more like 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:35.400 to the point. But thematically it doesn't really differ much 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.800 from the first two records, the first being always a 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:41.880 little bit more vitious and a little bit just like 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.360 throwing fun words into play, but the second one where 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:51.600 the lyrics were a little bit more uh realistic, if 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:53.800 you will. I don't want to say that, but it's 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.400 you know, there was always like an ambigus ambiguity between 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:03.040 you know, the fictional world of of interesting Latin I 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:07.719 Latin based words that you sort of associate with the 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.959 with golf and death metal and all that, but I 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:18.280 also had an undertone of something streaked in there. Um. 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:20.480 But if you, if you want to, you can just 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.640 turn around, if you if you if you're one of 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.240 those people who are like, we're a rock band, should 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.679 talk about a fucking politics, you can just you can 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.240 just easily see it for what it is. It's forty 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.120 minutes of rock music. It's just a fucking rock record. 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.199 That's what we do. We we play rock music. And 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.160 then we go out on tour. That's that's what we do. 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:44.240 I mean, these songs, they just sound so enormous. I 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:46.760 mean they sound custom made to be played at stadiums. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.960 At what point in your writing process do you begin 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:51.959 to think of an audience. Are you thinking early on, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.120 as you're putting, you know, the riffs together and writing 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.559 the track, how they'll respond and how we'll go over 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:58.800 on stage or does that come later and in the 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.080 beginning are you just kind of emoting I think, as 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.800 any architect that you you will at some point, even 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:10.240 when you're creating your idea, think of practical things like 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:16.760 this giant slab of concrete cannot float in thin air? 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:21.959 Or can it? You know, yes it can. If we 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:26.320 hide this underneath it, it will look like it's floating 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:31.080 in thin air. But you don't just disregard the fact 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.080 that a giant concrete slab will sucking, not just elevate, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.679 and that that is you You do think about that 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.520 when you're writing songs. If you if you are a band, 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.079 if you write songs to be performed, there will be 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:51.960 at some point a practical evaluation of the track. How 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.240 does this work out? How how do we play this, 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:01.559 How will how will it sound? How will this translate? 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:07.120 Is this understandable? It's just and but but I so 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:12.559 did grindcore bands as well. You you orgonomically need to 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.800 figure the song out to make it feel a certain way. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:23.880 And and that's that's what's what's arranging songs and for 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:28.040 an ensemble is it's to how to coordinate it to 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:34.199 be performed. And uh, you know most bands do. And 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.120 I mean even I don't know if the Shacks had it, 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.760 had it like uh and go with because it sounded 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.439 it like that. They just started making noise and that 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:50.880 became entertainment as well. So it's you don't always have 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.640 to if you don't want to. But if you if 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:58.520 you're if you have your if the expectancy is for 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.800 people to show up and and dance along to your music, 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.240 it will greatly benefit if you sort of have that 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.240 in mind. I love that you just referenced the Shags. 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:13.760 I love that album so much. Uh yeah, me too good. 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:19.960 It's it's the utmost perfected manifestation of exactly the opposite 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.840 of everything I spoke of. It's just it's an endurance 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:25.960 test to listen to for anyone listening right now who 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.800 hasn't heard that check it out. Uh. They are a 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.520 group of I I think teen girls in the late 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:35.000 sixties whom I think their father had a vision. If 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.400 I recall that, they that that that God wanted them 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.160 to be in a band, and so he gave them 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:45.679 instruments without really instructing them. And it's just pure it's punk, 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.480 maybe twelve years early, I guess. As a way of 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.400 thinking about it, it's definitely Uh, it's an interesting sound, yeah, 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.840 but it definitely it definitely sounds like they just pressed 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.920 the record button and then they took up the instrument 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.439 for the first time in their lives. And me and 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.360 my daughter sits and listen to that in the car 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:09.920 all the time. My friend foot food food, food, food, food. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:17.000 It's Halloween, and it's impossible even if you're if you're 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:21.280 somewhat musical, it's still like an completely not You cannot 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.599 sing a long to it. You can just mimic the 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.280 sounds and just sort of like, uh, sort of do 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.800 wonky moves, and but it's it's entertainment and that is 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.280 what music is, regardless off you're listening to Fucking Yes 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:39.719 or the Shags, It's meant to entertain you. So they did. 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:44.040 They did exactly. They wanted to be rock band and 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.559 they played rock music to make people smile, and they do. 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.440 They still do, and that's fifty five years ago whatever, 0:13:52.559 --> 0:14:07.800 you know, so that's pure as well. We said starting 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.319 this conversation, you you just wrapped the first leg of 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.400 your tour playing I know you opened the show with 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.960 Kasian and played a lot of songs from the new 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.400 album that's not out yet. What was the feedback like 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:20.360 from the crowd on these new songs that, in a 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.560 lot of cases they had never heard before. Huntress Moon 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.440 has obviously I've been out for quite a while, so 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:31.080 that that really feels like one of our like regulars 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:38.800 now Kayserrian was, I mean, I know, not to sound 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:40.960 fucking cocky or anything, but you know, I knew there 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.040 was a good song and it's a big opener, so 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.160 it's like I knew that people will like it, people 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:50.200 should like it, therefore we're playing it. And but we 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:52.880 already knew beforehand that people were going to be a 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:59.920 little bit of non responsive, if you will, the same 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.560 same way that they were to Spirit when we started 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.400 playing that in on the Maliora cycle before the album 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.400 came out the same way that people reacted to Parispera 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.960 and in Ferry. Sorry, we just say Parispera. So I 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.880 never I have said the full title in ten years. 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:20.000 Um we we did that as well. So we we've 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.280 done that so many times, like coming out on stage 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.880 on a news cycle with a big opener on a 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:31.320 record that you haven't heard yet. Um. So it's it's 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:36.120 almost like a tradition. Um. And it always turns into 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:40.320 the same sort of, uh, you know, deer in headlights 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.800 sort of situation in the beginning, and then when we 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.840 go from the first song into Rats, all of a sudden, 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.240 the crowd sort of what becomes comes a lot. But 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:57.800 that's fine, they'll they'll learn. You mentioned Hunter's mood. I 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.160 meant to mention this earlier. I want to congratulate you 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.880 for having that in the soundtrack to the Lace Halloween 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.480 movie Halloween Kills over the over the end credits, which 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.160 is like prime soundtrack spot. That must have been a 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.520 cool moment for you as a as a big horror fan. 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.960 Of course, yeah, I know what. I don't know what 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:16.600 to say more than that, of course, it was a 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.840 big thing. Uh. I've always been ever since I was 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.880 a kid watching these films and you sort of uh 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:30.600 noticed the um the connection obviously, I mean big, big examples. 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:34.400 So that was obviously Man Behind the Mask and Friday 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:41.360 six with It, yeah, or something like that. And I've 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:46.280 always been in awe of of of horror film music, 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:51.440 but the way that a lot of rock bands source 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.560 associated with the horror I liked A Night of Living 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.920 Dead obviously was no Return of the Living Dead, sorry, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.000 Return of the Living Dead. The eighties sort of comic 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:07.359 comedic horror film I'll you know, obviously had this uh 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.439 great display of a lot of cool rock and punk bands. 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.159 So that was always something that I wanted to do, 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.480 which is cool. I say, could you ever uh following 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.040 the footsteps of like John Carpenter and see yourself writing 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.200 a script for horror movie or something like that. I'm 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.959 very interested in the cinematic world. I don't know if 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.600 if I were given the card blanche to sort of 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.040 go in head first into cinema, I don't know if 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.960 horror films would be my first get to go to. Actually, 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:43.440 Oh interesting, I am a giant fan of horror, but 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.000 that was that would not be my first I am 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:51.159 more of a UM. If I were to make films, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:57.120 it would be more in in some some weird universe 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:04.240 between UM and and you know, with with the quirky 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:08.560 and gothic sort of little shadow of Lynch, but in 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:13.199 the quirkiness of Wes Anderson and and you know, more 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.879 of the Cohen Brothers, more more comedic. But anything could happen, 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:21.040 sort of mixture between everything. I'm way more like a 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:25.119 mishmash sort of person person sets in there too. I 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:26.639 feel like I can see a little bit of that 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.920 maybe yeah, but never. I don't think I would ever 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.159 go into like full on or just just for the 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.240 sake of it being scary. It would be, but in 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.800 the film by me, it would would definitely like if 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.560 someone died, it would be like in a horrifically bloody 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.480 way just because it's that would be a fun way 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:51.920 to sort of just incorporate an element of splatter um. 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.040 But the story itself would be sort of comedic, tragic 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:59.000 and romantic, in some sort of weird fairy tale of 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:13.399 complete un real. Dude, is m hearing you talk about 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:15.520 the kind of ideal movie you would like to make. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.320 I'm so interested in just your incredibly diverse influences. I 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.840 love that you close your shows with Emmy Lou Harris's 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.399 Sorrow and the Winds, which is not something that you know, 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.639 people would traditionally associate with with you know, hard rock 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.920 and roll in metal. UM. I know you've cited people 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:33.440 like Blue Oyster Colt and you play a Metallica cover 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:35.760 on this recent tour, but you've also cited tore Amos 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.760 and Andrew Lloyd Webber's influences. What is it about someone 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.480 like Andrew Lloyd Webber who who really inspires you? Somebody 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.760 that I wouldn't have automatically thought would be an influence 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.879 of yours because you write hit songs. I think that 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.959 there are there are several uh what do you call, 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:59.560 like YouTube profiles that likes to to make um, you 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:04.760 know me musical versions of of anything, and even though 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.520 that they are joking, I think that there are a 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.200 lot of musicals that are written that way because people 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.800 think that if you were in the musical, you talk 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:20.240 about this and you point over there and it's it's 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.280 so bad that I, you know, I just want to puke. Unfortunately, 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.040 a few films that have been made like as musicals 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:31.720 are also like insanely bad, even when it's people that 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:37.359 I would expect to do better, And whereas Andrew Lloyd 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:43.640 Webber has done, it's like normal talking and then all 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.840 of a sudden they erupt into a song. And when 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.680 they erupt into a song, it's memories or Music of 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:55.920 the Night, Phantom of the Opera, the song that's our 0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:01.440 fucking that. They are fucking smash hits. So if you're 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:05.879 making theater or and it goes into musicals, and and 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:11.320 I prefer it when like each track is like a banger, 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.800 it needs to be like a real proper standalone uh 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:20.920 song from the radio. And that's what separates his music 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:27.040 so for much from from the the standard musical, because 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.800 a lot of the standard musical are are very generic. 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:32.840 It's a style of music which to compare it to 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:38.640 to horror films. And this is where um, if if 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.000 if I would, if I were to talk about not 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.600 the use not the horror genre in general, where that 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:49.000 sort of comes in different uh time periods and all that, 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.720 but if because they're there are a lot of Italian 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:56.280 and eighties horror that I like for maybe different reasons 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:02.760 than saying that the films are rate. They might be entertaining, 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:08.440 but they might not be great cinematic crafts, Whereas the 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:13.120 best cinematic films, the best horror films I know, are 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:17.920 made by people who or creators who aren't necessarily into 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:21.359 making horror in the first place. And you know the 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:27.000 Horror Efficionados and that's not a horror film, Yes they are, so, 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:34.840 The Exorcist, Jaws, Shining Dracula, one of my favorite films 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:36.399 of all time. All of these films are one of 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:39.479 my favorite films, favorite films of all time. But they 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:43.600 were all way it made by people who normally does 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:47.000 not do horror, and that's what made them so great, 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:51.880 because they take all the horror and in all these 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:57.399 elements that they and they they turn it into the 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:02.440 best horror film they can ever must stir with drama 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:13.000 and ah humor and comedy and romance and and and 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:22.600 really deepened like character um materialization, if you will. Wherever, 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:29.600 but and and whereas so much of the crap of 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.440 horror is because they are made by people who just 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:40.560 watched horror, who became uh filmmakers to make horror. So 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:46.600 it's all just a regurgitation of of of of the genre. 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:48.800 And that's the same thing with a lot of heavy 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:50.720 metal and death metal and all that. It's just like 0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:58.280 it's just repeated, uh, indulgent sort of homaging, which which 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:02.600 is which is not the foundation that you want to 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:05.640 build on if you want to take the genre forward 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:09.399 or add anything valuable to that, you're just echoing it. 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.000 And I think it's the same thing with a lot 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:17.399 of musicals. Um that some people are some people are 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:22.440 just so fascinated with the format that anything that resembles 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:25.320 that just qualifies that because it's just the sound of 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:29.840 a musical. How are you you? I'm standing here? How 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:35.760 about yourself? Are you not? Um? And it's I hate that. 0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:44.119 I absolutely fucking hate ship like that. It's horrible. And 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:47.359 but that's why Andrew Lloyd Webber seemed to be. He 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:51.600 seemed to be like very much like Sammy Cooper. I 0:24:51.680 --> 0:24:54.040 think he listens to a lot of other things and 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:57.000 then he writes the musical here and there and that 0:24:57.119 --> 0:24:58.640 that's I mean, that's such a beautiful way to get 0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:00.560 back into all of your influ just too. I mean 0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:03.200 on a track like spill Ways, that that piano part, 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:06.240 I mean, that's that could be you know, something straight 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:08.120 out of Aba or something like that too, and it's 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:11.879 it's so beautiful when juxtaposed with these huge heavy riffs too. 0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:15.399 I love that interplay and to to to have all 0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:18.840 these influences come together, it's it's it's its own unique thing. 0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:21.360 Like you said, it's not just you know, regurgitation from 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:23.800 what became before and just because you're so in love 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:25.840 with that genre. It's all the things that you love 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:27.680 and you've built something new out of it. And that's 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:30.520 what is amazing with what you do, in particular with 0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:34.960 this new record. I really think that comes across. Yeah. Well, 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:38.760 speaking of regurgitation to the point where it's almost vomiting 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:46.440 onto myself actually would be my constant whacking off over 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:51.000 abba um, which you you sort of shown a little 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:56.400 light on there because Um, I've found myself constantly sort 0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:59.200 of trailing them, not only because I'm a big fan, 0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:02.359 but how we have sort of ended up in there 0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:05.679 in the same studios as they have, and that has 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:09.560 been sort of a ah, a little bit of a thing. 0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:15.200 Um where you know, um in Pera was recorded in 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:20.600 uh studio Atlantis, which back in the day, if you 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:23.280 start looking through the records, you will see there was 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:27.800 called metronome back in the day, and that's where recorded 0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.240 most of their big hits. And if you if you 0:26:32.320 --> 0:26:38.600 go online kids and you see the clip where abbas 0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:43.720 recording Dancing Queen, that's exactly the studio that we recorded 0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:49.400 in Para and the same mixing console, the same gadgets 0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:53.119 in the background, the same microphones, everything, And I have 0:26:53.320 --> 0:26:57.520 to confess it's the same piano, and it's the same aremba. Yeah, 0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:02.080 and it's the same big you know, con sir on 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:06.840 the record that they had on on Money, Money Money, 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:09.680 for example, I think it was and Mama Mea I 0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:14.320