1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: On June fourteenth, nineteen seventy seven, ninety two year old 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: Jay Emma Crapser was found tied up and suffocated in 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: her Poughkeepsie, New York apartment. Police thought she had walked 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: in on a burglary and rounded up the young guys 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: in nearby Mansion Park, including Lamar and Stanley Smith, and 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: a new guy from Brooklyn who had spent time in Juvie, 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: a budding boxer named Dewey Bosella. After being falsely told 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: that Dewey had implicated them, the Smith brothers returned false 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: accusations against Dewey and fifteen year old Wayne Moseley. When 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: police tried to turn the miner on his alleged accomplice, 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: Wayne Moseley refused to lie, and the Smith brother's word 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: was not enough for a grand jury indictment. Six years 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: and two eerily similar crimes later, one of which was 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: properly attributed to brothers Donald and Anthony Wise, the DA 15 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: continued his relentless pursuit of Dewey Bosella for Emma Crapser's murder, 16 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: despite compelling evidence to the contrary, in including Donald Wise's 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: fingerprint at the scene. Finally, with Lamar Smith and Wayne 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: Moseley in custody for separate crimes, the DA had the 19 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: leverage he needed to coerce testimony and send Dewey Bosella 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: away for over twenty six years. However, the fight in 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: this boxer proved to be just too big, a fight 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: that would one day see the inside of a professional 23 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: boxing ring. This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome 24 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. That's me. I'm 25 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: your host, and today I am so excited because we 26 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: have a guest. We have a lot of first today. 27 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: Our guest is Dewey Bosella. And Dewey is our only 28 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: guest who speaks besides English, Arabic and japan Ease. He's 29 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: the only one who has won an eSPI Award. He's 30 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: the only one who won a professional boxing match in 31 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: his fifties. After he was released from prison after twenty 32 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: six years of wrongful incarceration. Without further ado, let me 33 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: introduce to you my friend Dewey Bosella. Dewey, welcome to 34 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: Ronfuel Conviction. 35 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: Thank you appreciate it. 36 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: Dewey, I have to say if and I know you 37 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: have your own book, and we'll talk about this. But 38 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: if I was going to write a book about your life, 39 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: I would probably call it unbreakable, because you have been 40 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: through experiences even beyond your Roffl incarceration, that would have 41 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: broken almost any mere mortal. From the time you were 42 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: a kid, you experienced extreme hardship. I mean, can you 43 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: talk about your upbringing in Brooklyn? 44 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: It was me and my forder brothers and one system. 45 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: As we were growing up, things were pretty good except 46 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 2: for my father. My father was just boot at eight 47 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: years old. My father turned my whole life around, as 48 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: well as my brothers and my one sister at that 49 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: particular time. One day, we was in the backyard and 50 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: we were playing, and I came inside of the house 51 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: and heard a lot of hollering and screaming, and my 52 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: father was beating up on my mother and my He 53 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: was being up on my mother. I did the best 54 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: I could do as a kid. I ran over and 55 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: granted round the laid. He took me and threw me 56 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: across the room like I was a piece of trash 57 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: and continued to beat up on my mother. My mother 58 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: went to the hospital. Me and my brothers we went 59 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: in the foster homes and group homes, and things were 60 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: never the same. 61 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure they weren't. And your mother died, and 62 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: you witnessed that as an eight year old boy. Your 63 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: father abandoned all six of you and went to live 64 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: with your half siblings. You didn't even know you had, 65 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: one of whom Tony became important later on down the line. 66 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: But first you and your five full siblings were shuffled 67 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: between I put foster homes and group homes until you 68 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: were all finally placed together again a few years later 69 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: with the Coleman family. Then after all that, you moved 70 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: to Queens. You all moved to Queen's and spent a 71 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: good five or six years together with just at least 72 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: a shred of normalcy. But in high school I understand 73 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: you started drinking, smoking, hanging out with some not so 74 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: great people, and pretty soon you ended up dropping out 75 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: and moving upstate just after another tragedy struck. 76 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was sixteen years old and I got into 77 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 2: a fight with a guy by name is Standy Jackson. 78 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 2: When I got into a fight with Stanley Jackson, I 79 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: got the best of him. He didn't like that. Him 80 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 2: and a guy by name of Barty driving the bicycle 81 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: and they see my brother at a party and Andrew 82 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: Jackson High School, and Stanley wouldn't stabbed my brother to death. 83 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 2: He stabed him in the heart and in the back 84 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 2: and then murdered my brother. So me, you know the 85 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: Kota streets, I won to get him. I wanted to 86 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: get him for what he did to my brother. And 87 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: because of that, my older brother Tony, so he said, listen, man, 88 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: once you come up here to upstate New York, you know, 89 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 2: to see where you're going. Man, if you stay down 90 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: in New York, you don't mind it, you know, in 91 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 2: a bad situation. I said, okay, I'll give it a try. 92 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: Because my true intensor, I wanted to kill him for 93 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: what he did to my brother. He should have came 94 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 2: after me. He should have came after my brother. So 95 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,559 Speaker 2: when I moved up to Poughkeepsie, New York, my older 96 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,119 Speaker 2: brother he said to me, once you go back to school. 97 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: I said, Tony, don't make your time. I'm not going 98 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: back to school. He said, well, you know, do something 99 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: if you don't want to do something. So I said, 100 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: I went and I got involved into a program to 101 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: where I became a carpenter, and I got a job 102 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: in Poughkeepsie, New York. Massive Square Park in Poughkeepsie was 103 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: to hang out for everybody that was supposed to be 104 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 2: hit at that particular time. So I just turned seventeen. 105 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 2: I'm hanging out in Everything that I did in New 106 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: York was in that park. So one time I got 107 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: into a fight and I beat the dude. I whipped 108 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: the dudes, but the we called me whipping the dudes. 109 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 2: But everybody said, yo, they dude, ain't happening. And so 110 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: that's when I started getting around guys who was supposed 111 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: to be you know, thugs and all that stuff. 112 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: Coincidentally, you're up there in the area where Floyd Patterson, 113 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: the heavyweight champion of the world, had recently converted a barn, 114 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: an old barn in Newpaulse, which is nearby, into a 115 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: center for at risk youth. 116 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 2: Floyd Patterson I first met him. It was because of 117 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: a there God dared me. He said, you're always fighting 118 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: it and all this, man, but you ain't gonna go 119 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: up no dead, no Floyd Partison camp. I said, what? 120 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: So I went up to Floyd passon camp on the there. 121 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: When I got up there, The first thing I did is, 122 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 2: you know, I lied to Floyda. I told Floyda to 123 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 2: have three fights, and I didn't have three fights. You know. 124 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 2: I was talking about fights out in the streets. I 125 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: thought I knew everything, and Floyd put me out there. 126 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: He put me up with a guy by the name 127 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: of Danny. Here it is, I'm weighing like close to 128 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 2: one hundred and ninety, you know, he's a Walter Way. 129 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: And I didn't know who Danny was. I went out 130 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: there and I hit Danny with a lucky punch and 131 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 2: I rocked him, and right behind that, Floyd said, cut loose. 132 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: He hit me with a body shot. The body shot 133 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: knocked the mouth piece out my mouth, and then hit 134 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: me with another shot in my chest. And he ain't 135 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: hit me to the face yet. And I caught you, 136 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 2: you know, because the wind was knocked out of me 137 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: and the bell rang. When the bell rang, I got 138 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: out out of the ring. I said, oh hey, no, 139 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: I said, I'm out of here. So Floyd said, what 140 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: was wrong, was wrong? 141 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: Was wrong? 142 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: Was wrong? I said, no, I'm all right, right right, 143 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: I'm not take the gloves off. Take the gloves off, 144 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: Take the gloves off. So he took the gloves. Where 145 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: you're going, when you're gone, when you're going with I said, 146 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: I'll be back from whereverybody, I'll be back. I'll be back. 147 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: When I got up out of there, that changed my 148 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: whole life. Why because all he did was in with 149 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: a body punch in the chest shot. He didn't even 150 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: go to the head. Yet. I'm one hundred ninety pounds 151 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: one hundred and forty seven or a little bit more 152 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 2: at that particular, I didn't know at that time he 153 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 2: was ready number one in the world. Floyd came up. 154 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: I mean, he said, uh, do you know you just sport? No, 155 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: he said, he's been number one in the world. Man, listen, 156 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: who shit? And never after that day forward, after that experience, 157 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 2: took boxing as a joke. 158 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: No, that would wake anybody up. And what an introduction 159 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: it was. But now, just when things you know may 160 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: have been taking a turn for the better, as your 161 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: first exposure to boxing, which became such a huge part 162 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: of your life and which you excel at and have 163 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: been recognized. Now finally, all these years later, June fourteenth, 164 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, this is the night when ninety two 165 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: year old Emma Crapser was brutally murdered in her apartment. 166 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: She was tied up and suffocated. She had linen stuffed 167 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: in her mouth and down her throat. And this was 168 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: a crime that obviously horrified local residents and for which 169 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: there was a lot of pressure on the authorities to 170 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: make arrests. And the police came up with a theory, 171 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: right They said that missus Scrapser had walked in on 172 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: a burglary in progress and paid with her life. So 173 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: they went around and picked up some kids they knew 174 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: were tough kids or whatever that hung out in the 175 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: park Manchester Square Park, and they were well aware of 176 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: you Dewey, obviously because coming up from the city and 177 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: everything else. They decided they would focus their investigation on 178 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: the new kid in town who they knew was a 179 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: bit of a brawler and a tough kid. And they 180 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: started by questioning two brothers, Lamar and Stanley Smith, And 181 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: originally they denied any knowledge the crime. The interrogators told 182 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: them though, that you Dewey had identified them as the murders. 183 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: But that wasn't true, was it. 184 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 2: No, it was far from the truth. I had no 185 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 2: knowledge of the crime. And what made them even say 186 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 2: something like that was the beginning of them framing me. 187 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: Right. So, Lamar Smith told the cops that he saw 188 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: you and another guy named Wayne Moseley, he was just 189 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: fifteen years old, on Missus Scrapser's porch trying to break in. 190 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: So they're just coming up with stories out of thin air. 191 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: Stanley Smith told police that he saw you, Wayne Moseley, 192 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: and a third guy together in the park on the 193 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: day of the murder. And then you and Wayne Moseley 194 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: were arrested for the burglary and murder. But Moseley was 195 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: a miner. He was, like I said, he's only fifteen, 196 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: so he wasn't gonna be They weren't gonna be able 197 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: to charge him as an adult, so they they wanted 198 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: to get him to plead guilty right and testify to 199 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: your involvement. But to his great credit a fifteen year 200 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: old kid, he refused to do that. And there was 201 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: no evidence whatsoever linking either of you to the crime 202 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: other than the word of the Smith brothers. So and 203 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: a grand jury, they always say grand jury will indet 204 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: a ham sandwich. The grand jury refused to indict you. 205 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: That says a lot, right, Yeah. 206 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: You got to remember when they arrested me, I was 207 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: both bost been hold for three days, but they kept 208 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 2: me for twenty eight days to win. A judge told 209 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: the prog attorney let him go, and so I was 210 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: released on what they call the not bound bell, which 211 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: means there was no evidence, nothing pointed to me at all. 212 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: And for the next five and a half close to 213 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: six years, nothing happened on the case, and then the 214 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: case was reopened. In nineteen eighty three, Wayne Mosley and 215 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: Lamar Smith were in Downstate correctional facility for crimes that 216 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 2: they have committed, and the prosecut attorney he said, listen, 217 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 2: I'll make a deal with both of y'all to testify 218 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 2: against Dewey base Out and Wayne. This is what I'll 219 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 2: do for you. I'll get all your charges drop and 220 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 2: get you out of jail. Lamar, I'll get you early parole. 221 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: And both of them agreed. However, because to them being 222 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: by law what they considered accompasses and saying that they 223 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: were there at the scene of the crime and another 224 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: collaborate witness, which was Stanley. But Stanley had no involvement 225 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 2: of the crime at all, so that's what made his 226 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 2: testimony so pure than the other su and because Stanley 227 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: Smith collaborating with his brother, the mass Smith, that was 228 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 2: the beginning of I got sent in twenty years to life. 229 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: But something happened at your trial that should have certainly 230 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: placed enough reasonable doubt in the state's case, if not 231 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: actually completely obliterated and knocked down this ridiculous house of cards. 232 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: Now for contexts, between nineteen seventy seven and your trial 233 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three, there had been two incidents that 234 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: were eerily similar to Emma Crapster's murder. And I say 235 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: incidents because a victim in one of them survived to 236 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: identify Donald and Anthony Wise as the perpetrators. Anthony Wise's girlfriend, 237 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: Madeline Dixon South, testified at your trial that she witnessed 238 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: Donald and Anthony Wise heading into Emma Crapser's house and 239 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: testified to how they said that they had gained entry 240 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: through a window. 241 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: She said that they told me that jam a christ 242 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: from murder. And because of what she said, the Federal 243 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: Brewer investigation went back inside the house and found the 244 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 2: Stringer print the inside window. 245 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: See. And what's so completely fucking nuts doing and just 246 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: sad is that despite all of this, the prosecutor was 247 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: still able to cloud the jurors minds enough with Wayne 248 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: Moseley Lamar and Stanley Smith and a bunch of other 249 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: non evidence bullshit that the jury was somehow able to 250 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: just gloss over ignore whatever you want to call it, 251 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: Madeline Dixon South's testimony and Donald Wise's fingerprint. 252 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: Before I got sentenced, the prosecuted attorney did everything that 253 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 2: he wasn't supposed to do. He took evidence and put 254 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 2: it inside the jury room. When the judge told him 255 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 2: not to do it, he did it anyway. All the 256 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: things that showed it I was innocent, you know, he 257 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: made sure never made it inside the jury room. That's 258 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 2: how bad he wanted me. 259 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: So six years they spent putting together this false narrative 260 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: just in order to get a conviction of the guy 261 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: who they just sort of decided one day was picked 262 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: out of a hat. I was going to take the 263 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: fall for this murder rap and that was you. How 264 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: long did the trial take? First of all, no more 265 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: than two weeks, So you're a two week trial, the 266 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 1: jury goes out. Did you think doing that they were 267 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: going to come back and that the justice would be served? 268 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: And they would see the truth. 269 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: At first, yes, in my mind, I didn't see anything 270 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 2: that pointed to me. So when they came back with 271 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 2: the verdict of guilty, I fell to the floor slot 272 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: of crime. How could you convict me? There was nothing, 273 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 2: nothing pointage of me, you know. So it took another 274 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: turn on my life to where I had to like, 275 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: you know, I had to become like another person because 276 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: now I'm setting twenty years of life and I'm wondering 277 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: how what I'm going to deal with twenty years of 278 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 2: life or crime I didn't commit. You know. I looked 279 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: at the jury, and the jury, even men, five women, 280 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: they all started crying. I said, it's too late. It's 281 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 2: too late. You convicted. You know, it's too late. It's 282 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: too late. 283 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode 284 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: of Rafel Convision with Jason Flam and of the Last 285 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: Mile organization, which provides business and tech training to help 286 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re enter the workforce. The 287 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: Pacers Foundation is committed to improving the lives of Hoosiers 288 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: across Indiana, supporting organizations that are dedicated primarily to helping 289 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: young people and students For more information on the work 290 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: of the Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile program, please 291 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: visit Pacersfoundation dot org or the Lastmile dot org. 292 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 2: I wasn't need the need a week and I watched 293 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: a guy get stabbed in the eye and his eyeball 294 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: came out in front of my face, and I was like, 295 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: holy shit, after a riot and b blocker. Not only 296 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: that a guy but I knew by the name of Slim. 297 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 2: I wasn't even there, like I said, the week he 298 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: got murdered, and I was like, what the fuck did 299 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 2: I get myself into? How the the fuck am I 300 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 2: gonna deal with this? And so my whole attitude changed. 301 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 2: The little attitude was don't touch me, don't put your 302 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: hands on me, don't be around me. I'm not trying 303 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 2: to get cut, I'm not trying to get stabbed. I'm 304 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: not gonna let nobody hurt me. And from this day forward, 305 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: I don't give a damn who you are if you 306 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: try to hurt me, I'm a dude. I gotta do 307 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: the spot. And that was my attitude and I lived 308 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 2: like that for over twenty six and a half years. 309 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: Whoa I mean, it's I mean, that's a hell of 310 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: a first week in a place that could just as 311 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: easily be called hell. And you were at New York's 312 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: infamous Sing Sing Correctional facility, where you needed to be 313 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: hard to survive, but you also underwent a really incredible 314 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: transformation while inside. 315 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 2: What happened with me when I was inside Sing Sing 316 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 2: State Penitentiary. One day I come from the yard and 317 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: I was finished working out, and guy by name of 318 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 2: Sharie walked up to me and he said that I 319 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 2: was fronting and fronting inside the state penitentiary. Almost it's 320 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: like a call out, you know, like you know, you're punk, 321 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 2: all these other things that go along with it. But 322 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: he didn't mean it like that. You know. I took 323 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 2: it the wrong way. And I said, yo, yo, yo, 324 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: what's going on? You know? He said, no, man, I 325 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 2: just need to talk. I need to build. I said, okay. 326 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: So the correction officer said, lock in, lock in, lock 327 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 2: in another man, Bucky, you know. He said, you keep 328 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: lock keep lock me and I'm inside myself for twenty 329 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 2: three hours, well one hour wreck so I'm I'm in 330 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 2: there twenty four hours a day. And it was just 331 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 2: this one keep like that turned my whole life around, 332 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: because I asked the guy who's supposed to have been 333 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: my friend for a cigarette. He said he didn't have it, 334 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: and I said, man, name, it is right there in 335 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 2: your pocket. Man, why are you acting like that with me? Man? 336 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 2: You know how I am man. You know what kind 337 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: of person I am. Man. So he reached the side 338 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 2: of his pocket. And the way he gave it to me, 339 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: the way he gave it to me, I didn't. I 340 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 2: didn't like it at all, but I took it because 341 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 2: I needed it. And when I took the cigarette, my 342 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: whole life changed. That was my minimum office. That was 343 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: the beginning. I wasn't even in sing sing no more 344 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: than the year and a half at the most. And 345 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 2: I looked at the cigarette, and I looked at my life, 346 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: and then I said, look at you, man, let's fucking 347 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: look at you. You became fuck with savage that they 348 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 2: were talking about. You became exactly the person they were 349 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 2: fucking talking about. You got mind underneath your bed, that 350 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 2: reaf on top of your fucking goddamn bunk. What's wrong 351 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: with you? Man? At least out in the streets you 352 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 2: were trying to go to school. You ain't doing shit 353 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 2: in here. You're doing absolutely nothing with your life. Man, 354 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 2: let's look at you. And then I asked myself one question, 355 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: and I said, if they were to let you go 356 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: right now, what would your life be like? And I 357 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 2: ain't like the answer. The answer was I would be 358 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:58,719 Speaker 2: a bum. And so I just turned my life around. 359 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 2: I just u said, damn, man, you know you lost 360 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 2: your mother, your father don't and this family don't give 361 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: a shit about you. You don't know where none of 362 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: your brothers and your sisters. Is that what are you 363 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 2: gonna do? Man? I took the reef I had and 364 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 2: I gave it away. The people thought I fucking flipped. 365 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: They thought I bunked out. I took the wine underneath 366 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: my bed, I started giving it away. I mean, you 367 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 2: are right, you are right. I mean you want it 368 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 2: if you don't want it. I was dumping in the 369 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 2: fucking toilet bow that day forward. I just never looked back. 370 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 2: That was back in nineteen eighty five September twenty seven. 371 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 2: That's why I hang out with Shereef. From that day forward, 372 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 2: I got involved in every different program you could think about. 373 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 2: I got fifty two certificates, I got my back, had 374 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 2: done my master degree. After twenty six and a half 375 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 2: years run the prison walls. 376 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: It's pretty incredible transformation. And do we I'm gonna talk 377 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: about you in the third person. 378 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 2: Do we. 379 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: Also became the boxing champion at Singh Sing and he 380 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: became such a legendary fighter in there that they brought 381 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: in a guy who went on to become the WBA 382 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: Champion of the world to fight him. 383 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 2: If he didn't come out, I was gonna win. Man. 384 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 2: I had cracked his ribs in the second round. He's 385 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: the tough son of a gun. Lula Valley was a 386 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 2: guy man that I had the utmost respect for. I'm 387 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 2: glad that he went on had and won. They had 388 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 2: him win the championship fight. What it was like was 389 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 2: an experience to make me really truly understand that the 390 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 2: potential was there, the understanding of what I could have 391 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: done with my life if I chose to take a 392 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 2: deal laid on down the line, I could have done that. 393 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: Finally, in nineteen ninety you were granted a new trial 394 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: on the grounds that the prosecutor had used his remptory challenges, 395 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: which is, for those people who may be new to 396 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: the show, that prosecutor is allowed to exclude certain jurors 397 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: off for no reason, just because he wants to exclude 398 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: them from serving on the jury. And he had used 399 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: these challenges to systematically remove all black jurors, ending up 400 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: for the all white jury, hardly a jury of your peers. 401 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: So if you were granted a new trial and they 402 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: came to you and offered you a deal to plead 403 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: guilty the manslaughter for seven or fourteen, you've already done 404 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: six and a half. But that was not even a 405 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: consideration for you, was it. 406 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: Hell? No, First and foremost, during my first child, Stanley 407 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 2: Smith got under testified against me. I think that was 408 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 2: what really got me convicted. You gotta remember he was 409 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: helping his brother and he told the judge, I want 410 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 2: you to know I committed perjury. I testified against this 411 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 2: man because I wanted to get my brother out of jail. 412 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: Now that I got my brother out of jail, I 413 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 2: want you to know that I committed perjury. And he 414 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 2: said the same thing. In my second trial in nineteen ninety, 415 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 2: you know I still got prosecuted. This trial is so 416 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: bad that nothing, absolutely, not one single shred of evidence 417 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: pointed to me. The where the judge told the prosecute 418 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: the attorney. He said, listen, the jury should be back 419 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 2: on one album with a not guilty verdict. That's when 420 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 2: a project in. The attorney said, listen, mister Mozalla will 421 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 2: give you seventy to fourteen for manslaughter. All you got 422 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 2: to do is mint of the nature of the crime. 423 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: You see the boy in the six months with the 424 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 2: possible to go on home. I said no, okay, mister Bozalla, 425 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 2: And they came back on the second day. We give 426 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: it what we called time served. All you got to 427 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: do is mint to the nature of the crime. You 428 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: go back to sing singing, you be released to go home. 429 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: I said no. So then at the jury was about 430 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 2: to come back with the verdict. The projecting the attorney 431 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 2: he said, listen, well give what we call scenario Apha. Please. 432 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: All you gotta do is to sign the piece of paper. 433 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 2: We walk out the court room right now, I said, no, 434 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 2: jury walks in. I get reset this twenty years to life. 435 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: I mean wrongfully convicted twice, yes, with no evidence. And 436 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,719 Speaker 1: we didn't mention this before. But the fact is in 437 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: a crime like this, a violent crime that involves up 438 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: close contact, whether it's not a shooting from across the 439 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: street or across the room. Even this is a woman 440 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: who was brutally suffocated. There were so many pieces of 441 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: evidence collected at the crime scene. I heard even close 442 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: to one hundred pieces of evidence, and none of them 443 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: matched you. There was no nobody even ever claimed had 444 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: your fingerprints or your blood, or your hair, or your 445 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: saliva or anything was at the crime scene. And they 446 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: managed to convict you twice based on the evidence of 447 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: incentivized witnesses. This shit goes on in courtrooms across the 448 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: country all the damn time, and it happened to Dewey Bozella. 449 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: And that's what we're here talking about now. So back 450 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: to prison you go. 451 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 2: When I got back to seeing statement a centry the 452 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 2: bottom of day, I went down to what to go 453 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 2: to the chapl area. I was trying to find some 454 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: peace when I walked in. Guess who I see? I 455 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: see the guy with murdered my brother, Stanley Jackson. I said, oh, 456 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 2: hell no, you got to be kidding me. Man. I 457 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,239 Speaker 2: went inside myself for three days and I thought everything Now, 458 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 2: I said, you took a turn of the violence, you 459 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: took behavior wearingess, you took all these classes dealing with violence. 460 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 2: Now in the time of adversity. Can you really live 461 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: this out? Can you really, you know, deal with this? 462 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 2: Because Cody the Street said, kill him. You gotta kill him. 463 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 2: You gotta bust him in the head, you gotta stab him, 464 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: you gotta whip his ass. You gotta do something otherwise 465 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 2: you're a coward, You're a pump, your a sissy, and 466 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,239 Speaker 2: everything that's that go along with him. So I had 467 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 2: to deal with all these things in my mind. So 468 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 2: after three days, I come up out of my cell 469 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 2: and they're Stanley on the flats and a block and 470 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 2: people looking So you got three tears. People are looking down, 471 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 2: and the people are looking down like, oh shit, all 472 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 2: hell about the breakthroughs now. You canna remember I was 473 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 2: in the New York Day News centerfold for boxing and 474 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: people know I'm the champ and sing saying they know 475 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 2: I'm not plump. And then a lot of them know 476 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 2: that there's the guy who murdered my brother. So I 477 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: walked to him and I said, You'm I gonna talk 478 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 2: to you for a minute. He said yeah, So we 479 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: go around the corner. Man, why you murder him my brother? 480 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 2: He said, Man, I was young with something just happened 481 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: it looked him down the face, and I looked them 482 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 2: up and down. The first thing that came to my 483 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 2: mind was then let this shit go. Man, move on 484 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: with your life. And I reached him and I shook 485 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 2: his hand. I said, young man, young man, I forgive you. 486 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: My man went off, Yo man, but he murdered your brother. 487 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 2: You ain't gonna do shit. He wanted to chap him 488 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 2: to Yo man, back up, Yo man, But I said, 489 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 2: Yo man, you ain't got nothing to do with this man, 490 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 2: between me and him and God. But he murdered. I said, yeah, 491 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 2: like I said, you ain't got nothing to do with this. 492 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 2: Let it go. So when I did that, the world 493 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 2: got out in the penitentiary. You know, I don't know 494 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: if I could have did what you did. I said, 495 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 2: doesn't matter what the fuck you think. Well matter, this 496 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 2: is what was between me and and God. Man. That's 497 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 2: what I wanted to do. How the fuck am I 498 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: gonna ask them able to forgive me? If I can't 499 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 2: learn how to forgive him, I'm gonna ask anybody to 500 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: let my life move forward. If I can't let his 501 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 2: life move forward, it begins with me. So I make 502 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: the final decision. This is my decision, not your decision. 503 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 2: And I don't give a damn about the coldest streets, 504 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 2: and I damn you don't give a damn about the 505 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: fucking cold dealing with the penitentiary because this is shit 506 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 2: that got me in there anyway, this cold shit. I'm 507 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: done with it. And that was my attitude. 508 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a code of a penitentiary that you 509 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: didn't belonging in the first place, and somehow or other 510 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: you transcended the environment and really lifted yourself up out 511 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: of those walls, even while you were still behind those walls. 512 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: And that's incredible. And then it's almost as if you 513 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: were rewarded, right because well in so many ways, because 514 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: now we come to the point where you're in the 515 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: visiting room one day and there's a beautiful young woman 516 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: named Trina Boone who's there, and how did this interaction 517 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: take place? Because I've been there, I don't know how 518 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: the hell you could even you know, I. 519 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 2: Was like a rollbottom of the city. I was involved 520 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 2: with they call the jcs and me being involved in 521 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 2: the jay ceds. I was there for about a couple 522 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 2: of years to where they allowed me to go down 523 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 2: their visiting room and take pictures and her brother came 524 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 2: up and he introduced me. Say, this is so and 525 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: so and so and so. He's a boxer, you know, 526 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: da da da da da da, and he's a good guy. 527 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 2: So after that we started talking and she liked boxing. 528 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 2: One thing led to another. I was strayed up with her. 529 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: I didn't pull more punchers. I said, I'm looking for 530 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: a wife. You know, I'm not looking for somebody who 531 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 2: just want to be a friend if they had the chance, 532 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 2: you know, if you want to talk to me, you know, 533 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: that'd be cool. If you don't, it's okay, you know. 534 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 2: And I asked a brother, can I get her phone number? 535 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 2: And he gave it to me, and I made the 536 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 2: phone calls. He was a little mad at him, but 537 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 2: I made the phone call. And then you know, that's 538 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 2: how it all got started. 539 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: And sure enough you ended up well finding exactly what 540 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: you're looking for was a wife. And she became a 541 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: huge part of your life and a big supporter of yours, 542 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: so much, a part of the beautiful documentary that I 543 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: watched ESPN Films twenty six years, the Dewey Bosella story. 544 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: She is obviously almost like the I mean, she has 545 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: a big role in it. Let's just say that, yes, sir, 546 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: So now things are going to take another few twists 547 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: and turns. How did you first learn about the Innocent Project? 548 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: I know you started writing, and it took I used 549 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: to write the same letter every day from what I read, 550 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: is that true? 551 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: Yes? While I was up library still fight my case, 552 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 2: I wrote to them. I said I got blood samples 553 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 2: and the hand samples, and I didn't hear no answer. 554 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 2: And then I wrote them every freaking week until I 555 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 2: received the answer, A guy by name A Lee. Listen, 556 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 2: don't write us no more. We're gonna put you on 557 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: the list right behind that. In the year two thousand 558 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 2: and three, I went to my first parole board and 559 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 2: I got hit with two years. 560 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: And from what I understand, the prole board came back 561 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: at you over and over again with two year extensions 562 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,719 Speaker 1: despite your impressive transformation. Meanwhile, the Innocist Project took your 563 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: case in two thousand and five, but when they found 564 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: out that the Poughkeepsie Police Department had destroyed all the 565 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: biological evidence, they passed your case onto Wilmer Cutler Hale, 566 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: who took the case pro bono, and upon your request, 567 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: they looked into the arresting officer of Lieutenant named Arthur Regula. 568 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 2: Something decide told me to tell them go see the 569 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 2: lieutenant author regular And when I invested me in nineteen 570 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 2: seventy seven, no one wants to believe me. He told 571 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:02,959 Speaker 2: me when I was a kid, man, he was going 572 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 2: to get me go by and see him. Man, he 573 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,719 Speaker 2: might have a change of heart. That's only that came 574 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 2: in my head. So they asked him a question, do 575 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 2: you have any regulation about mister Deui Bazilo case? Yes? 576 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 2: I do. Would you mind telling us? He said, I 577 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 2: want you to know that I kept mister Bozilla's personal 578 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 2: files at my house for the last nineteen years. Are 579 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 2: you supposed to keep any case at your house? He 580 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 2: said no. When I retired, I took his files home 581 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 2: with me and I had him for the nice nineteen 582 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 2: years because I always knew that one day someone will 583 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: come talk to me about this man case. I believe 584 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 2: that he was innocent. Here are his files. Inside the 585 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 2: files of what they call his ario material breaking material, 586 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 2: newly discovered evidence, four pieces of evidence that said that 587 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 2: I did not commit the murder. One of the witnesses 588 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 2: that said that they heard the garage from our house, 589 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 2: the back of the house where they heard the garbage 590 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 2: cans being moved by the window seal where the wise 591 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: brothers had post that went in where Spring Princeville Final 592 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: and the two ladies who said to listen, we were 593 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: sitting outside, and we know Wayne Mosley and the other 594 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 2: guys who said they were in front of the house, 595 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 2: they were not there because we were sitting out there 596 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 2: from seven o'clock to eleven o'clock that night. There was 597 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 2: a tase statement that was made that said I did 598 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: not commit the murder. So a lot of things started 599 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: pointing to a different direction, and so all us was 600 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: brought before the judge. Judge said, this is overwhelming evidence, 601 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 2: and if we'd had this in nineteen eighty three or 602 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety, I believe that miss Mozilla would not 603 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 2: have been convicted. And this a attorney had domestic case 604 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 2: right there on the spot in October twenty ninety, two 605 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: thousand and nine. 606 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: So do we tell us what you were doing when 607 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: you first got out of it, how you got the 608 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: Arthur Ashe Courage award at the SP's in twenty eleven 609 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: and eventually got your shot. I'm getting the chills as 610 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: I say this. As a professional boxer. 611 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 2: I came out. I was fifty years old, and I 612 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: was going doing volunteer work at River Rivers Gym. I 613 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 2: was working with the kids. I was also working at 614 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 2: two ninety Broadway on Main Street in Newburgh, New York. 615 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 2: I was transforming people who came from the penitentiary all 616 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 2: the way in peace skilled to see their role offices 617 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So I was still communicating with 618 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 2: the people who was in the inside. And then one 619 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 2: day I ain't know anything about the All Dance Courage Award. 620 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 2: I don't know how it happened. People said that they 621 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 2: had recommended me and that I was going to receive 622 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 2: bill Ward. I wasn't excitedly excited because I didn't know 623 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 2: anything really about the All Dance Courage Award. I get 624 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 2: all the way out to LA and I started to 625 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 2: see it as holy shit, this is way bigger than 626 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 2: one I thought it was out here. You know, I 627 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 2: was gonna be in front of like five to seven 628 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 2: million people. I thought it would be seven thousand or 629 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 2: something like that. So I gave a speech. After I 630 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 2: gave a speech, listening, I know Oscar be. 631 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: A hooy heard about it, right, So then Bernard Hopkins 632 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: and Oscar de la Hoya took an interest in you 633 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: and supported you in training. But in order to fight professionally, 634 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: you had to take a number of grueling physical tests 635 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: to be clear for fighting. And those wouldn't be easy 636 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: for anyone at any age, but at fifty or fifty one, 637 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 1: that's a big challenge. But as I saw, as everyone 638 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: saw the movie knows, you worked your asshof to get 639 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: it to fighting shape. 640 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 2: Bernard Hopkins, he said, bring them over to mind camp, 641 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: bring them up to Philly. Then I'm gonna work with 642 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 2: Danny and also get him a conditioning coach. Rick was 643 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: the guy who actually would get up and train with 644 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 2: me and work with me and run with me, you know. 645 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 2: And Danny he did pad work and everything to get 646 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 2: me in good shape and. 647 00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: Now comes to fight. Right. This was yeah, funny, man, 648 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: what the hell's funny about it? 649 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 2: I mean, it was just that I know my qualifications 650 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 2: and he had full pro fight and then he had 651 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 2: twelve martial art fights as a pro, so that's fifteen 652 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 2: prof fights to my none. And I said, man, I'm 653 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 2: not I'm taking this fight. I don't give a damn 654 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 2: what he got. He wanted to win so bad he 655 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 2: didn't care old I was. He wanted to with my butt, 656 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 2: and so the first round he won. After he won 657 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 2: the first round, the first thing I said to myself 658 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 2: was doing what the hell are you doing? You're a 659 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 2: sticking move fighter. Do what you do best, man. So 660 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 2: I won by Nanima's decision. That's when I said, okay, 661 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 2: do it. This is it. Called it quits. I was 662 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 2: off for two other fights and I said, nah, I'm done. 663 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 2: I said, I'm not trying to get hurt. You know, 664 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 2: I proved to myself, you know, the quality was there. 665 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 2: Everything I needed to know was right there. I'm satisfied. 666 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 2: I'm good. I never went by. 667 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: So your life hit you with some of the hardest 668 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: punches that anyone has ever been hit with. Losing your mother, 669 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,439 Speaker 1: abandoned by your father, losing three brothers, spending twenty six 670 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: years in one of the toughest prisons in the country 671 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: or maybe even the world, and still you remain unbroken 672 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: and undefeated. And for our audience, if you want to 673 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: learn more, you can with Dewey's book as well as 674 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: the ESPN film. Both of them will be linked in 675 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: the bio. But Dewey, your story isn't over yet. I 676 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: heard you're living down in Atlanta, Georgia. 677 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 2: Now what I'm doing right now, I'm down in Atlanta 678 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 2: at Georgia. I juvenile to chant the centers. I'm going 679 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 2: around and I'm doing volunteer work. Get around and let 680 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,439 Speaker 2: people know. You know that, you know you can't turn 681 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,800 Speaker 2: your life for brown if you just make the right decision. 682 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 2: Don't let nobody tell you what you can't do. You 683 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 2: hold the key to your own life. You know, you 684 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 2: make the final decision. You know. People may say what 685 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 2: they want to say. You know, but at the end 686 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 2: of the day long you can go to your bed 687 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 2: and you can wake or wake up in the morning 688 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 2: and say, man, this is what I'm going to do 689 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 2: and mean it from the heart. You good. 690 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: So you've been listening to the story and the voice 691 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 1: of the man himself, Douey Bosella and Dewey, this is 692 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: the part of the show where I turned my microphone off, 693 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: kick back in my chair and close my eyes and 694 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: just listen as you share your final thoughts for closing arguments. 695 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 2: The night before the fight for President, Barack Obama gave 696 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 2: me a call and he said, hello, how you doing, 697 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 2: miss Bozil. I said, yeah, good. President. I said wow, 698 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 2: and he said how you doing. I said, I'm doing 699 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 2: pretty good, man, I'm feeling pretty good. He said, I 700 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 2: heard a lot about you or heard that you know, 701 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 2: you're doing a lot of things, you know, getting back 702 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 2: to the community and everything. He said, I just want 703 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 2: to wish you well on your fight. I said, yeah, man, 704 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 2: I appreciate that a whole lot. Then he said, you 705 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 2: sure this is going to be your first in the 706 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 2: last fight. I said yes. Then after that hung up. 707 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 2: I had tears in my eyes and I said, Wow, 708 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 2: this is bigger than me, because here, this is the 709 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,399 Speaker 2: man that wanted to be a basketball player. He woind 710 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 2: up being the president of the United States. And I said, 711 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 2: everybody who gave up, you know who actually just like 712 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,439 Speaker 2: life don't mean nothing to him no more, just lost 713 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 2: hope or just like I don't care. You know, this 714 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 2: fight is for them. It's not only for me. This 715 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 2: this fight, this fighter is to let them know, don't 716 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 2: give up, don't let nobody tell you what you can't do, 717 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 2: don't give up on yourself, don't make yourself feel like 718 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 2: you know you're not worthy this is the fight that 719 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 2: I'm fighting. I'm not fighting just a normal fight no more. 720 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,959 Speaker 2: I'm fighting for the people man who actually just like said, 721 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 2: I don't care ef it, you know, I don't want 722 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 2: them to feel that way. I hope that I can 723 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 2: be that sponsor to let them see that you can 724 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 2: make it. If I can do it, you can do 725 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 2: it two years old. This guy's thirty years old. You know, 726 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 2: if I can do it at this age, what excuse 727 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,439 Speaker 2: to you have? You know, especially if you're young. Don't 728 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 2: let nobody tell you what you can't do. And that 729 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 2: was my mission after that, so I didn't. That's the 730 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 2: reason why I was laughing here. I didn't care, you 731 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 2: know about the fight. I don't. You can't do nothing 732 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 2: with me. You can't break me, you can't hurt me. 733 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 2: I already went through all the difficulties. I already been hurt. 734 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 2: I already been let down. I already noticed like that 735 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 2: everything taken from me. I really know what it's like 736 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 2: that people turn it back on you. I already know 737 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 2: it's like that people just like to give up and 738 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,840 Speaker 2: there's nobody there, and you feel all alone and you 739 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 2: by yourself. I know what it's like man to just like, 740 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 2: you know, just go through all the difficulties, you know, 741 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 2: and then not once, not twice, but three times, you know, 742 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 2: and then have all the hurt and the pinion and 743 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: the deaths you know, put right in front your face, 744 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 2: you know, and then to go out there and do 745 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 2: what I did. You can't break me, man, And that's 746 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 2: what I wanted. That's the message that morning to get. 747 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 2: Don't give up on yourself. Don't feel like man, there's 748 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 2: nothing leaping life because moments you're alive. He said that 749 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 2: you're alive. God has something special for you. And if 750 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 2: you don't believe in God, whatever it is that you 751 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 2: believe in, you know, there's something special for you because 752 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 2: you're not done yet. It's just your choice, your decision. 753 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 2: You have a decision. I made all the right choices 754 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 2: after I made all the bad choices. And that's what 755 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 2: this was about. 756 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flammer. 757 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence projects and go to the 758 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: link in our bio to see how you can help. 759 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburn, 760 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: and Kevin wardis the music on the show as always, 761 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be 762 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and 763 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason 764 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in 765 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one