WEBVTT - Peripersonal Space: Humans’ Got Talent 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.200 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.200 and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and that's the 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:22.560 podcast that they call Stuff You Should Know. Big sound 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.520 any different? You sound exactly the same? Do I Really? 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:28.880 That's good because I just got the stints out from 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.519 having my deviated septoms fixed once and for all. Dude, 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.160 what's it like, what's the reveal? Well, the big reveal 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:39.000 is that my voice didn't change, which is something I 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:43.000 was actually really worried about. Yeah, yeah, because I mean, like, um, 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.720 that's what I used as my job when I was like, well, 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.120 you know, if I've got like my septum pressed all 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.440 the way up against one side of my face, how 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:53.280 does that make my voice sound, and what will it 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.960 sound like with you know out that happening. But I 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.800 can breathe through both nostrils for the first time in memory. 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.480 I I literally can't remember the last time. I think 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.120 I'm probably was sixth grade. Again. My friend saw me 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.319 punched me in the face, and I'm almost positive that's 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.039 that's the only thing I can come up with that 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.039 would have deviated my septem But I've been in such 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:15.880 a good mood since those stints got pulled out. Man, 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.840 I'm I'm just on air, dude. I love it. So 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.039 happy to hear that. Thank you. I bet those stints 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.320 being in there was not fun. No, it wasn't. In 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:32.080 um My doctor guy named Capelle Segal was really really good, 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.679 as was Alicia the p A too, and he said 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:37.840 that he was I don't think he said it was 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.560 the most deviated septum ever, but I'm just gonna go 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.200 ahead and say that's essentially what he was saying, that 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.640 it was really really deviated septem and so he got 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.880 it straight and everything's going bully right now. Did you 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.000 shave any off any anywhere here and there? No, he said, 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.160 you know that bump is still going to be there, right, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:57.920 We're not doing a rhino plastic And I was like, yeah, 0:01:57.920 --> 0:01:59.840 I've made peace with my nose is fine nose. So 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.720 he's like, great, okay, I love it. I can't wait. 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.080 I can't wait to breathe my breath into your nostrils 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.440 and have you. I can't accept it for the first time. Here, 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:11.080 do it now, and we'll see if I can smell 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:17.040 it over the microphone. Mom, Yeah, that's nice, Chuck, it 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.440 smells like seagulls. Uh, it's funny. People listening to this 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.520 might be thinking, why did Chuck almost shout the word 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:29.000 big at the beginning of this episode. Oh yeah, because 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.280 I was going to say big, props and thanks to 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.519 you for picking this subject. Okay, great, because I thought 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:41.200 I thought it was endlessly fascinating and had so many 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.240 potential little ten drils that weren't even in the great 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.120 thing that Livia put together for us. Uh. It just 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.600 it really got my brain kind of thinking about a 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.639 lot of different ways that pair of personal space and 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.280 how our brains are wired, and how that how many 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.440 things that has impacted in will impact and can't impact. 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.520 I loved it. Yeah, it is that's I mean, that's 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:06.400 why I was like, we gotta do one on this. 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:08.200 I don't remember how I stumbled across. I think I 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.960 actually was like, I remember hearing that every human needs 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.560 like one point seven meters square meters of personal space 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.240 or something, or actual physical space, and I was like, 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:19.800 is that true? And I went and looked it up 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.040 and I stumbled upon pair of personal space, which is different. 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.880 There's personal space, there's pair of personal space. And this 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.639 this science even though we've been like kind of picking 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.520 at the edges of it since the seventies. UM, it's 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.200 still so new that we're not quite sure if we're 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.720 talking about the same thing or these overlapping systems. But 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.280 the upshot of a pair of personal space while we're 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:45.840 talking about is the area around you that you can reach, 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.520 like as far as your arm extends, and that if 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.760 you stop and think about it, this is the way 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.600 that we physically interact with the world. This is the 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.440 space and it changes because we move around the world. 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.880 We sit down, we stand up, we hands, we just 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.280 we do stuff, so it moves with us. It's locked 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:08.160 into our body, but it is it's the space where 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:14.520 where we interface with reality essentially UM in any physical way. Yeah, 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.520 and it's UM. And by the way, Teaser, there are 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.800 two other kinds of spaces that you didn't even mention 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.440 that we're going to talk about. Okay, so just you know, 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:29.480 put that under your lid. Let's smoke listening, audience. Uh. 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.440 It's sort of related to what's called body schema, and 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:33.960 we'll talk about sort of the history and all this 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.880 and all these cool studies, but body schema is just 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.760 the understanding that we have of how we're built. Like 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:43.920 you know, Uh, it's like if you put on one 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.960 of those big sumo wrestling suits, you're gonna be knocking 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:52.360 stuff over, like Nathan for you episode in a China 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:57.039 in a China shop. Um, because you're your your brain 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.080 is wired to be used to how big you are. Uh, 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:05.200 Like when we squeeze through a sideways thing, like we know, 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.320 like I've got to turn sideways when I get to 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.560 this thing because I know how big I am and 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.839 I know how wide I am, And like, you can't 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:19.640 overstate the massive importance this had evolutionarily speaking, I think, 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.960 because that relates to everything from along with pps pair 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.560 of personal space, everything from like can I reach from 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:31.040 this limb out to get that piece of fruit without 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:35.600 falling and killing myself too? Can I use this club 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.720 and we'll get into some really interesting stuff about extensions 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.080 of your own space. Can I use this club to 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.839 hit that guy before he gets to me? All of 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.279 this stuff matter, Like even fruit flies have a version 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.240 of body schema, which is can I make it from 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.800 here to there? Essentially with my little fruit fly body? 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:58.120 Can I get through that gap? Is it too small? Um? 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:02.479 As that. Yeah, that reveals that body schema is a 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:07.880 really really ancient um mechanism. It's a really ancient system 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:11.200 among life, right that if you stop and think about it, 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.679 anything that moves through the world probably has some form 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.800 of body schema because otherwise they'd be running into stuff, 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.599 they would be um, they wouldn't be able to feed themselves, 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.880 they would miss the prey that they were running after. UM. 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:30.480 It would like it's really basically impossible to overstate how 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:36.000 constantly we use these this this um process, and how 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.160 constant it's updated. And the most remarkable thing about it 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.920 is we do all this without even giving it a thought. 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:47.320 It just happens. And it's not just body schema we're 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:48.839 talking about. And this is where we kind of get 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.560 into um what I was talking about earlier that we're 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.760 still not quite sure is is body scheme up part 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.320 of it? Are we talking about body schema? We're just 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.680 accidentally using a different a different term, Like that's where 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.920 the field is right now, But like neurology has definitely 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.120 taken up a pair of personal space and is investigating 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.680 it with full gusto. So it probably won't be too 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.240 terribly long before we understand it much more and have 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.760 like a much more precise definition that all of the 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.400 scientific community agrees on. Yeah, and you know that's basically 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.000 where we're studying here and talking about today is neurology. 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.880 Because it's very easy to say, well, of course, you know, 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.440 you can't squeeze through a certain area if it's too 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.880 small for your body. But it's not instinct. It is 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.480 neurons firing on an unconscious level that is telling you 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.400 to do or to not attempt this thing. Basically, it's 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.480 very cool. Yeah, and again it's it's a It's how 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:48.520 we do just about everything with our bodies, like from dancing, um, 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:53.840 playing sports, um, making a crewdriver, making love, um, what 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:58.600 some people called doing it. Um. How if somebody shoots 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.600 an arrow at your face and you catch the arrow 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.000 right before it hits your face without even thinking about it. 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.320 It's how we catch flies out of the air with chopsticks. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:11.720 Anything that we do physically moving has to do with this. 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:16.440 And again it has to do with how incredibly advanced 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.080 our brains are. That's what we're finding out. That's what 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.040 this this whole thing reveals, is this thing that we've 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.120 just taken for granted, we finally reached the point in 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.160 our like understanding of the universe and us and how 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:34.320 things work, um, sorry, how stuff works, um, that we're 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.840 now investigating things that we've just totally taken for granted. 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.040 And what we're finding is like, oh my god, our 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.760 brains are so ridiculously powerful that it's this is just 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.040 fun to even talk about. And that's why we're talking 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.480 about it today. A couple of the first neurologists to 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.840 sort of start poking around this, uh pair of personal 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.840 space was in nineteen eleven, uh do name, Henry Head 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.280 good name, as Libya points out, and Gordon Holmes put 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:04.319 out a paper um that talked about body schema, and 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:06.360 they were looking at it in terms of like people 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.560 that had brain damage. They noticed that certain kinds of 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:14.439 brain damage would render odd ways that they might position 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.400 a limb, or that they might have a sensation and 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.120 a limb or something like that. So that's how they 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.120 kind of, uh started kind of launched the field of 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.960 studying this body scheme of thing neurologically speaking. And they 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:29.920 also and this is super cool, this is just one 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.400 of like a million cool things. They're the first ones 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.360 that came up with this idea that if if something 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.480 is attached to your body in a way that it's 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.880 moving with your body, then your brain accepts that neurologically 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.000 and factors that in. So if you're wearing a tin 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:49.439 gallon hat, uh, You're you're gonna duck a little more 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:51.920 readily because you know you're wearing that hat unless you know, 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:54.439 unless you're just really dense and you just keep knocking 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.720 that hat off. But eventually you're not going to be 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.520 a cartoon character and you're going to realize this large 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:04.480 hat or this whatever I'm wearing. Like and I remember, 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:06.920 I think I've talked about it before and college. One 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:11.320 of the greatest h Halloween costumes ever saw in downtown 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.160 Athens was Uh. I kind of knew him. His name 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.719 was Blake, but he was Surface Area man one year 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.400 and he just had these huge foam disks that he 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.480 made a suit out of around his arms and legs 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.760 in his body that he took up like, you know, 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.800 maybe fifteen square feet and he would just walk around 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.600 Athens bumping into things saying, I'm surface area man. But 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.600 it's it sort of ties in with this and that. Uh. 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:41.080 He went against the idea like neurologically speaking, he would 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.240 have known he can't go into the bar and not 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.360 knock people over. And I'm sure he did know this, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.199 it was part of the gag. But uh, if it's 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.720 attached to you and moves with you, your brain factors 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.680 at in. Yeah, Like if you stop and think about 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:58.000 that for a second, your body schema, if you put 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.120 a hat on your body schema enlarges and changes shape 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:06.479 to include that hat. Now, that's astounding. That's an amazing 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.480 thing that we just again don't even think about. So 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.920 Head and Homes were the ones who were really first 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.360 kind of bringing this up, like, hey, guys, we're taking 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.080 some stuff for granted, we need to investigate this. And 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:21.920 it was followed up in UM by W. R. Brain, 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:26.920 another neurologists UM, and he said, hey, you know what 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.680 we kind of think of space around us is like, um, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.800 you know this, the door is just three ft in 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.280 front of me, or the ceiling is a six ft ceiling, 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.640 And we think of it in Cartesian terms like things 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.920 can be mapped out as if on a graph. And 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.480 he said that's not actually how our brain encoades things. 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.439 It encoades things much more simply basically what's in grasping 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:54.160 distance and what's in walking distance. And he kind of 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.720 prefigured all the way back in one this idea of 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.319 pair of personal space grasping distance, and then other types 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.719 of space. And it seems to be the case that 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.640 that is kind of how our brain divides things. And 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:08.920 it's not binary like that. It's not like a straight 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.719 line like either it's in walking distance or it's in 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.040 grasping distance. There's gradients of it. But he he was 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.240 pretty smart for having come up with this kind of 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.800 seeing things differently. Yeah, and there were there were a 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:23.040 couple of philosophers. Uh, I'm sure many people have put 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:28.640 this forward, but uh common Kline and Frederick they Vanimon 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:31.600 uh kind of throw out that, Hey, I think this 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.920 evolved originally out of self defense, and that makes a 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.439 lot of sense. I think even though we're so far 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:44.480 removed from took took In and our ancestors like that, Uh, 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:48.920 I think many people still in a place where they 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.000 maybe even not feel threatened, maybe even when they're sitting 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.320 in their own living room. No, like all right, the 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:59.800 fire pokers, you know, within grasping distance, just in case 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.600 some and bust in that door. Yeah, Like I remember 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.199 being a kid and like and I wasn't a paranoid 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.560 worried kid at all, but I used to go into 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:13.280 places and all, right, where's where's the defense weapon? Like 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:15.800 in this room? What would I grab if some maybe 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:17.920 I was a paranoid where he could Now, Yeah, I 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.040 was gonna say I walk into the room and be like, 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.280 where's the cookies? I would think I could throw the 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.559 cookie jar at someone's head? But I think that's the 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:31.280 evolutionary sort of remnant still sticking around, which is like, 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.040 what can I grasp to defend myself? And your brain 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:39.120 is sort of wired that way. Uh, not only with us, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.200 but you know animals they found out kind of do 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.920 the same thing, right, Yeah, and like that we that 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.040 we would have taken this initial thing that's self defense. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.320 So there's a bubble of of like protection around us 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.640 that when something starts to come into it, we're like, okay, 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.960 alarms are going off. And that over time our brain 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:57.400 was like, we can do a lot more with this. 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.840 Let's figure out unique and novel ways, and that that 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.160 eventually evolved into being able to grasp the hot poker. 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.679 And they point out the two philosophers you mentioned that 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.960 um it's not an adaptation. That's called an exaptation. And 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.319 we talked about it in a Human Intelligence episode UM, 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.000 where the ability to remember where you set your baby 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:21.440 down on that rock eventually evolved into wayfinding, like our 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.040 ability to create mental maps and find our way around 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.200 or find our way back from something. But yeah, you 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.000 said something about the animals, and there was a Swiss 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.920 zoo director. I'm just gonna take his name. Okay, I'm 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.080 usually pretty generous, but I want to take this one. Okay, 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:42.960 heine Headagar. It's pretty straightforward. It's a great name. Heinie Hedagar, 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.920 Swiss Zoo director UM started studying animals because he wanted 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.800 to figure out at what like, how can you put 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.840 animals into the same enclosure but they're from different species 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.960 without scaring one another to death? And so he started 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.040 studying how close you could get the animals and came 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:00.680 up with this whole um kind of con tribution to 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:05.000 the eventual pair of personal understanding of space. That's right. 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:09.320 So what happened was Heinie Hettegar. You gotta say both names. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.560 It's really hard not to, uh said. I want to 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.480 figure out a few different things. I want to figure 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:19.080 out um, how far like a predator species can be 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.280 from a prey before uh, we'll call it the flight 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:27.040 distance before one of the prey runs away or maybe 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.920 fights back. We'll call that the defense distance or plays dead. 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:35.240 That's critical distance. And found out that there was just 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.960 a lot of consistency among different individuals within a species, 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:43.200 which a was interesting, but also created the definition of 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.120 what a tame animal is, which is kind of cool. 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.640 Which is a flight distance of zero when it comes 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.000 to humans. So you can go up and pet, pet 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.600 that thing, basically give it a scritch again, and and 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.280 heinie hettagar um. You can kind of take him and 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.200 set him to the side for a little bit. Because 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.200 his findings really kind of come to pass in proxemics, 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.040 which is the personal spaces most people understand it um, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.120 which eventually, you know, we'll talk about overlaps with pair 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.600 of personal space, but but pair of personal spaces we 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:18.280 understand it today was termed I think around and there's 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.479 gonna be a lot of Chuck's Italian imitations because the Italians, 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.280 really they did a lot of studying of para personal space. 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.040 I don't know, I don't know, but they just they 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.360 just are into that kind of thing. But from the 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:35.440 seventies to the nineties there was a lot of sad 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.960 monkey experiments. Um so said, I'm like, when are we 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.160 going to stop doing that? We have to figure out 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.600 a different way because it's just so ghastly if you 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.240 stop and think about what they're doing through these poor monkeys. Um. 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.720 But essentially what they figured out is, yeah, w R 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.880 brain was right. Our brains basically say that's near, that's far, 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.400 And yes, there's you know, variations on the theme, but 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.440 essentially that's how we see the world. And the stuff 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.080 that's near is the really hot action stuff because that's 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.680 the stuff we can interact with. Right. But also there 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:16.600 was an Italian UH neuro physiologist name do you say 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:22.520 Giacomo or Jacomo? Oh? I don't know, I'm gonna say Giacomo, Okay, 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:27.440 Giacomo riz A Latti um basically found out that as 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.639 far as the neurons of this macaque monkey goes, and 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.000 as sensibly humans obviously that's why they're studying these monkeys 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:39.840 to begin with, uh, their neurons would fire if the 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.320 monkey was touched, like literally touched on the skin, or 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.040 the same thing would happen if a flash of light 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.320 went off near its body. So it you know, we're 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.359 talking about pair of personal space versus extra personal space. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.480 That was one of the two types that we didn't 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:59.880 mention extra personalist out of your reach grasp, right, yes, 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.159 So basically found out that certain neurons react to that 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:09.240 extra personal space exclusively visually. But when it came to 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.720 these pair of personal neurons, they were responding to both 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.840 tactile or visual stimulus in the same way. Right, So 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.360 as long as something was happening in this in this 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.040 pair of personal space, that neuron could be stimulated by 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.560 different kinds of input. Right. That's right, That's that's kinda 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.800 that's gonna become big in a second. Um. There's another 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:36.160 researcher named Michael Graziano, Chuck Graziana. Actually he's Americans, all bet, 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:40.200 it's just Michael Graziano. UM. And he studied macaques too 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.400 with electrical currents, and this one, this is the one 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.080 that gets me. He implanted electrodes into these neurons that 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:52.280 m Risolotti had discovered, UM, and said, what happens if 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:56.760 I like stimulate this, And when he stimulated the neurons 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.600 that were activated within the peri personal space, the monkeys 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.000 would like flinch, they would like throw their hands up 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:07.000 defensively in front of their faces. Um, they would they 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.040 would respond like there was a predator that was about 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.600 to attack them, like it had just invaded their pair 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.960 of personal space, or as Henny Heideger would say, their 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.960 um defense distance, right, yeah, which I mean that leads 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:21.800 to the you know, that really backs up the whole 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:26.560 original defense mechanism thing right exactly. Um that that that's 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:28.880 probably what it evolved from. And then when he did 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.440 the opposite, if he if he prevented those neurons for firing, 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.119 he could get as close as you wanted and the 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.520 monkey wouldn't flinch, essentially all right. And then nineties seven 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.560 rise a lotty. I believe this is where the first 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.000 sort of big book around this came out. He and 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.320 his colleagues put out a book called The Space Around Us, 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:48.919 where they basically gathered up, you know, a couple of 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.720 decades worth of research and said here's what we've got 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.800 so far. Right. One of the big things that they 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.680 said in that was that, hey, what we thought before 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:01.159 is that there's all this different sensories information coming in 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:05.840 tactile information audio, visual, all that stuff, and the brain 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.399 is kind of bringing it all together and analyzing it 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.040 and then telling the motor nerves what to do to respond. 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.080 That's not right. It turns out that there are neurons 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:21.240 that can be stimulated by by visual input, by tactile input, 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:25.000 by audio input, the same neuron it will respond. The 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:29.480 point isn't what kind of stimulus it is, it's where 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.600 it's happening. So like, if something's happening in the pair 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.760 of personal space, a neuron that's responsible for the pair 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.040 of personal space around your right elbow, if you see 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.400 something around your right elbow coming at it, like an arrow, 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:47.440 or if an arrow is actually touching now your elbow, 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.879 that same neuron is going to fire in just the 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.560 same way. Um. That that was a big thing. It's 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.600 not stimulus specific, it's location specific. And so that kind 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.360 of changed our entire understanding of how the brain kind 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.560 of processes all this stuff. It's it's um Rather than 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.760 redundancy having all these different regions taking in stuff and 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:11.159 then I put it together, it's you know, specific neurons 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:15.200 are are dedicated to specific regions no matter how that 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.040 that sensory input is coming in well, and even in 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.000 the cool little Cherry on this Sunday was they also 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.600 found out that it's not just where something is located, 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:28.240 but their neurons start firing on, you know, if it's 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:30.639 a bow and arrow or a rake, or a club 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.040 or a baseball bat or a coffee cup. Your your 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:37.000 brains fires on like how you're going to physically engage 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:40.640 with that thing because of its locate, you know, and 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:45.080 and coordination with its physical location. So that comes up 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.600 a little bit later at the end with the mirror 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.639 neurons experiment. Uh, and maybe we'll just say that that 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:55.240 will be a nice little teaser, Okay. Cool. Another thing 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.320 that they figured out to um, I'm not sure what 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:02.600 the year was, but Andreas Areno at the MySpace Lab 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:06.840 pretty great name. Um. She found out that the size 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:10.119 of your PPS varies depending on what part of the 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.480 body is being studied. So, um, it's different sizes around 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:17.879 that your torso or your face or your hands. And 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:22.400 what I found just monumentally astounding, Chuck, is that the 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:26.520 size of your PPS altars size and shape. I believe 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:31.520 as you bring one PPS area into another PPS area, 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:34.520 so like your face comes up or your hand comes 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:36.760 to touch your face, and they think that this is 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:42.280 to prevent your hand from getting captured by your PPS, 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:46.160 your faces pair of personal space, and then who knows 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.560 what sort of crazy cognitive sensation that would create. So 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:52.360 you actually there's a mechanism to prevent that from happening, 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.920 to prevent your hands PPS from merging accidentally with your 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:00.439 faces PPS. Right. But one thing that they kind of 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:04.800 got wrong that they realized later on, and I think, Uh, 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:06.879