1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and that's the 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: podcast that they call Stuff You Should Know. Big sound 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: any different? You sound exactly the same? Do I Really? 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: That's good because I just got the stints out from 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: having my deviated septoms fixed once and for all. Dude, 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: what's it like, what's the reveal? Well, the big reveal 9 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: is that my voice didn't change, which is something I 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: was actually really worried about. Yeah, yeah, because I mean, like, um, 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: that's what I used as my job when I was like, well, 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, if I've got like my septum pressed all 13 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: the way up against one side of my face, how 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: does that make my voice sound, and what will it 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: sound like with you know out that happening. But I 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: can breathe through both nostrils for the first time in memory. 17 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: I I literally can't remember the last time. I think 18 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: I'm probably was sixth grade. Again. My friend saw me 19 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: punched me in the face, and I'm almost positive that's 20 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: that's the only thing I can come up with that 21 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: would have deviated my septem But I've been in such 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: a good mood since those stints got pulled out. Man, 23 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm just on air, dude. I love it. So 24 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: happy to hear that. Thank you. I bet those stints 25 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: being in there was not fun. No, it wasn't. In 26 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: um My doctor guy named Capelle Segal was really really good, 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: as was Alicia the p A too, and he said 28 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: that he was I don't think he said it was 29 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: the most deviated septum ever, but I'm just gonna go 30 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: ahead and say that's essentially what he was saying, that 31 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: it was really really deviated septem and so he got 32 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: it straight and everything's going bully right now. Did you 33 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: shave any off any anywhere here and there? No, he said, 34 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: you know that bump is still going to be there, right, 35 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: We're not doing a rhino plastic And I was like, yeah, 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: I've made peace with my nose is fine nose. So 37 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: he's like, great, okay, I love it. I can't wait. 38 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: I can't wait to breathe my breath into your nostrils 39 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: and have you. I can't accept it for the first time. Here, 40 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: do it now, and we'll see if I can smell 41 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: it over the microphone. Mom, Yeah, that's nice, Chuck, it 42 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: smells like seagulls. Uh, it's funny. People listening to this 43 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: might be thinking, why did Chuck almost shout the word 44 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: big at the beginning of this episode. Oh yeah, because 45 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: I was going to say big, props and thanks to 46 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: you for picking this subject. Okay, great, because I thought 47 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: I thought it was endlessly fascinating and had so many 48 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: potential little ten drils that weren't even in the great 49 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: thing that Livia put together for us. Uh. It just 50 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: it really got my brain kind of thinking about a 51 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: lot of different ways that pair of personal space and 52 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: how our brains are wired, and how that how many 53 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: things that has impacted in will impact and can't impact. 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: I loved it. Yeah, it is that's I mean, that's 55 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: why I was like, we gotta do one on this. 56 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: I don't remember how I stumbled across. I think I 57 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: actually was like, I remember hearing that every human needs 58 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: like one point seven meters square meters of personal space 59 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: or something, or actual physical space, and I was like, 60 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: is that true? And I went and looked it up 61 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: and I stumbled upon pair of personal space, which is different. 62 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: There's personal space, there's pair of personal space. And this 63 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: this science even though we've been like kind of picking 64 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: at the edges of it since the seventies. UM, it's 65 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: still so new that we're not quite sure if we're 66 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: talking about the same thing or these overlapping systems. But 67 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: the upshot of a pair of personal space while we're 68 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: talking about is the area around you that you can reach, 69 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: like as far as your arm extends, and that if 70 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: you stop and think about it, this is the way 71 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: that we physically interact with the world. This is the 72 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: space and it changes because we move around the world. 73 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: We sit down, we stand up, we hands, we just 74 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: we do stuff, so it moves with us. It's locked 75 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: into our body, but it is it's the space where 76 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: where we interface with reality essentially UM in any physical way. Yeah, 77 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: and it's UM. And by the way, Teaser, there are 78 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: two other kinds of spaces that you didn't even mention 79 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about. Okay, so just you know, 80 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: put that under your lid. Let's smoke listening, audience. Uh. 81 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: It's sort of related to what's called body schema, and 82 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: we'll talk about sort of the history and all this 83 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: and all these cool studies, but body schema is just 84 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: the understanding that we have of how we're built. Like 85 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, Uh, it's like if you put on one 86 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: of those big sumo wrestling suits, you're gonna be knocking 87 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: stuff over, like Nathan for you episode in a China 88 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: in a China shop. Um, because you're your your brain 89 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: is wired to be used to how big you are. Uh, 90 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: Like when we squeeze through a sideways thing, like we know, 91 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: like I've got to turn sideways when I get to 92 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: this thing because I know how big I am and 93 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: I know how wide I am, And like, you can't 94 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: overstate the massive importance this had evolutionarily speaking, I think, 95 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: because that relates to everything from along with pps pair 96 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: of personal space, everything from like can I reach from 97 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: this limb out to get that piece of fruit without 98 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: falling and killing myself too? Can I use this club 99 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: and we'll get into some really interesting stuff about extensions 100 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: of your own space. Can I use this club to 101 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: hit that guy before he gets to me? All of 102 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: this stuff matter, Like even fruit flies have a version 103 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: of body schema, which is can I make it from 104 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: here to there? Essentially with my little fruit fly body? 105 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: Can I get through that gap? Is it too small? Um? 106 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: As that. Yeah, that reveals that body schema is a 107 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: really really ancient um mechanism. It's a really ancient system 108 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: among life, right that if you stop and think about it, 109 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 1: anything that moves through the world probably has some form 110 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: of body schema because otherwise they'd be running into stuff, 111 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: they would be um, they wouldn't be able to feed themselves, 112 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: they would miss the prey that they were running after. UM. 113 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: It would like it's really basically impossible to overstate how 114 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: constantly we use these this this um process, and how 115 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: constant it's updated. And the most remarkable thing about it 116 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: is we do all this without even giving it a thought. 117 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: It just happens. And it's not just body schema we're 118 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: talking about. And this is where we kind of get 119 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: into um what I was talking about earlier that we're 120 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: still not quite sure is is body scheme up part 121 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: of it? Are we talking about body schema? We're just 122 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: accidentally using a different a different term, Like that's where 123 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: the field is right now, But like neurology has definitely 124 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: taken up a pair of personal space and is investigating 125 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: it with full gusto. So it probably won't be too 126 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: terribly long before we understand it much more and have 127 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: like a much more precise definition that all of the 128 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: scientific community agrees on. Yeah, and you know that's basically 129 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: where we're studying here and talking about today is neurology. 130 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: Because it's very easy to say, well, of course, you know, 131 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: you can't squeeze through a certain area if it's too 132 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: small for your body. But it's not instinct. It is 133 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: neurons firing on an unconscious level that is telling you 134 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: to do or to not attempt this thing. Basically, it's 135 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: very cool. Yeah, and again it's it's a It's how 136 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: we do just about everything with our bodies, like from dancing, um, 137 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: playing sports, um, making a crewdriver, making love, um, what 138 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: some people called doing it. Um. How if somebody shoots 139 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: an arrow at your face and you catch the arrow 140 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: right before it hits your face without even thinking about it. 141 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: It's how we catch flies out of the air with chopsticks. 142 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: Anything that we do physically moving has to do with this. 143 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: And again it has to do with how incredibly advanced 144 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: our brains are. That's what we're finding out. That's what 145 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: this this whole thing reveals, is this thing that we've 146 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: just taken for granted, we finally reached the point in 147 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: our like understanding of the universe and us and how 148 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: things work, um, sorry, how stuff works, um, that we're 149 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: now investigating things that we've just totally taken for granted. 150 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: And what we're finding is like, oh my god, our 151 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: brains are so ridiculously powerful that it's this is just 152 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: fun to even talk about. And that's why we're talking 153 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: about it today. A couple of the first neurologists to 154 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: sort of start poking around this, uh pair of personal 155 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: space was in nineteen eleven, uh do name, Henry Head 156 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: good name, as Libya points out, and Gordon Holmes put 157 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: out a paper um that talked about body schema, and 158 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: they were looking at it in terms of like people 159 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: that had brain damage. They noticed that certain kinds of 160 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: brain damage would render odd ways that they might position 161 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: a limb, or that they might have a sensation and 162 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: a limb or something like that. So that's how they 163 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: kind of, uh started kind of launched the field of 164 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: studying this body scheme of thing neurologically speaking. And they 165 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: also and this is super cool, this is just one 166 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: of like a million cool things. They're the first ones 167 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: that came up with this idea that if if something 168 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: is attached to your body in a way that it's 169 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: moving with your body, then your brain accepts that neurologically 170 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: and factors that in. So if you're wearing a tin 171 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: gallon hat, uh, You're you're gonna duck a little more 172 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: readily because you know you're wearing that hat unless you know, 173 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: unless you're just really dense and you just keep knocking 174 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: that hat off. But eventually you're not going to be 175 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: a cartoon character and you're going to realize this large 176 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: hat or this whatever I'm wearing. Like and I remember, 177 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: I think I've talked about it before and college. One 178 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: of the greatest h Halloween costumes ever saw in downtown 179 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: Athens was Uh. I kind of knew him. His name 180 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 1: was Blake, but he was Surface Area man one year 181 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: and he just had these huge foam disks that he 182 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: made a suit out of around his arms and legs 183 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: in his body that he took up like, you know, 184 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: maybe fifteen square feet and he would just walk around 185 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: Athens bumping into things saying, I'm surface area man. But 186 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: it's it sort of ties in with this and that. Uh. 187 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: He went against the idea like neurologically speaking, he would 188 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: have known he can't go into the bar and not 189 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: knock people over. And I'm sure he did know this, 190 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: it was part of the gag. But uh, if it's 191 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: attached to you and moves with you, your brain factors 192 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: at in. Yeah, Like if you stop and think about 193 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: that for a second, your body schema, if you put 194 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: a hat on your body schema enlarges and changes shape 195 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,479 Speaker 1: to include that hat. Now, that's astounding. That's an amazing 196 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: thing that we just again don't even think about. So 197 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: Head and Homes were the ones who were really first 198 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: kind of bringing this up, like, hey, guys, we're taking 199 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: some stuff for granted, we need to investigate this. And 200 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: it was followed up in UM by W. R. Brain, 201 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: another neurologists UM, and he said, hey, you know what 202 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: we kind of think of space around us is like, um, 203 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: you know this, the door is just three ft in 204 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: front of me, or the ceiling is a six ft ceiling, 205 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: And we think of it in Cartesian terms like things 206 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: can be mapped out as if on a graph. And 207 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: he said that's not actually how our brain encoades things. 208 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: It encoades things much more simply basically what's in grasping 209 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: distance and what's in walking distance. And he kind of 210 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: prefigured all the way back in one this idea of 211 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: pair of personal space grasping distance, and then other types 212 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 1: of space. And it seems to be the case that 213 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: that is kind of how our brain divides things. And 214 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: it's not binary like that. It's not like a straight 215 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,719 Speaker 1: line like either it's in walking distance or it's in 216 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: grasping distance. There's gradients of it. But he he was 217 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: pretty smart for having come up with this kind of 218 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: seeing things differently. Yeah, and there were there were a 219 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: couple of philosophers. Uh, I'm sure many people have put 220 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: this forward, but uh common Kline and Frederick they Vanimon 221 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: uh kind of throw out that, Hey, I think this 222 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: evolved originally out of self defense, and that makes a 223 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: lot of sense. I think even though we're so far 224 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: removed from took took In and our ancestors like that, Uh, 225 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: I think many people still in a place where they 226 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: maybe even not feel threatened, maybe even when they're sitting 227 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: in their own living room. No, like all right, the 228 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: fire pokers, you know, within grasping distance, just in case 229 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: some and bust in that door. Yeah, Like I remember 230 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: being a kid and like and I wasn't a paranoid 231 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: worried kid at all, but I used to go into 232 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: places and all, right, where's where's the defense weapon? Like 233 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: in this room? What would I grab if some maybe 234 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: I was a paranoid where he could Now, Yeah, I 235 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: was gonna say I walk into the room and be like, 236 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: where's the cookies? I would think I could throw the 237 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: cookie jar at someone's head? But I think that's the 238 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: evolutionary sort of remnant still sticking around, which is like, 239 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: what can I grasp to defend myself? And your brain 240 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: is sort of wired that way. Uh, not only with us, 241 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: but you know animals they found out kind of do 242 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: the same thing, right, Yeah, and like that we that 243 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: we would have taken this initial thing that's self defense. 244 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: So there's a bubble of of like protection around us 245 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: that when something starts to come into it, we're like, okay, 246 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: alarms are going off. And that over time our brain 247 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: was like, we can do a lot more with this. 248 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: Let's figure out unique and novel ways, and that that 249 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: eventually evolved into being able to grasp the hot poker. 250 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: And they point out the two philosophers you mentioned that 251 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: um it's not an adaptation. That's called an exaptation. And 252 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: we talked about it in a Human Intelligence episode UM, 253 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: where the ability to remember where you set your baby 254 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: down on that rock eventually evolved into wayfinding, like our 255 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: ability to create mental maps and find our way around 256 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: or find our way back from something. But yeah, you 257 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: said something about the animals, and there was a Swiss 258 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: zoo director. I'm just gonna take his name. Okay, I'm 259 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: usually pretty generous, but I want to take this one. Okay, 260 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: heine Headagar. It's pretty straightforward. It's a great name. Heinie Hedagar, 261 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: Swiss Zoo director UM started studying animals because he wanted 262 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: to figure out at what like, how can you put 263 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: animals into the same enclosure but they're from different species 264 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: without scaring one another to death? And so he started 265 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: studying how close you could get the animals and came 266 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: up with this whole um kind of con tribution to 267 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: the eventual pair of personal understanding of space. That's right. 268 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: So what happened was Heinie Hettegar. You gotta say both names. 269 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: It's really hard not to, uh said. I want to 270 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: figure out a few different things. I want to figure 271 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: out um, how far like a predator species can be 272 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: from a prey before uh, we'll call it the flight 273 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: distance before one of the prey runs away or maybe 274 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: fights back. We'll call that the defense distance or plays dead. 275 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: That's critical distance. And found out that there was just 276 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: a lot of consistency among different individuals within a species, 277 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: which a was interesting, but also created the definition of 278 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: what a tame animal is, which is kind of cool. 279 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: Which is a flight distance of zero when it comes 280 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: to humans. So you can go up and pet, pet 281 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: that thing, basically give it a scritch again, and and 282 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: heinie hettagar um. You can kind of take him and 283 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: set him to the side for a little bit. Because 284 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: his findings really kind of come to pass in proxemics, 285 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: which is the personal spaces most people understand it um, 286 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: which eventually, you know, we'll talk about overlaps with pair 287 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: of personal space, but but pair of personal spaces we 288 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: understand it today was termed I think around and there's 289 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,479 Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of Chuck's Italian imitations because the Italians, 290 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: really they did a lot of studying of para personal space. 291 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, but they just they 292 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: just are into that kind of thing. But from the 293 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: seventies to the nineties there was a lot of sad 294 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: monkey experiments. Um so said, I'm like, when are we 295 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: going to stop doing that? We have to figure out 296 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: a different way because it's just so ghastly if you 297 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: stop and think about what they're doing through these poor monkeys. Um. 298 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: But essentially what they figured out is, yeah, w R 299 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: brain was right. Our brains basically say that's near, that's far, 300 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: And yes, there's you know, variations on the theme, but 301 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: essentially that's how we see the world. And the stuff 302 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: that's near is the really hot action stuff because that's 303 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: the stuff we can interact with. Right. But also there 304 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: was an Italian UH neuro physiologist name do you say 305 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: Giacomo or Jacomo? Oh? I don't know, I'm gonna say Giacomo, Okay, 306 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: Giacomo riz A Latti um basically found out that as 307 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: far as the neurons of this macaque monkey goes, and 308 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: as sensibly humans obviously that's why they're studying these monkeys 309 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: to begin with, uh, their neurons would fire if the 310 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: monkey was touched, like literally touched on the skin, or 311 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: the same thing would happen if a flash of light 312 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: went off near its body. So it you know, we're 313 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: talking about pair of personal space versus extra personal space. 314 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: That was one of the two types that we didn't 315 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: mention extra personalist out of your reach grasp, right, yes, 316 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: So basically found out that certain neurons react to that 317 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: extra personal space exclusively visually. But when it came to 318 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: these pair of personal neurons, they were responding to both 319 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: tactile or visual stimulus in the same way. Right, So 320 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: as long as something was happening in this in this 321 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: pair of personal space, that neuron could be stimulated by 322 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: different kinds of input. Right. That's right, That's that's kinda 323 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: that's gonna become big in a second. Um. There's another 324 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: researcher named Michael Graziano, Chuck Graziana. Actually he's Americans, all bet, 325 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: it's just Michael Graziano. UM. And he studied macaques too 326 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: with electrical currents, and this one, this is the one 327 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: that gets me. He implanted electrodes into these neurons that 328 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: m Risolotti had discovered, UM, and said, what happens if 329 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: I like stimulate this, And when he stimulated the neurons 330 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: that were activated within the peri personal space, the monkeys 331 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: would like flinch, they would like throw their hands up 332 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: defensively in front of their faces. Um, they would they 333 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: would respond like there was a predator that was about 334 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: to attack them, like it had just invaded their pair 335 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: of personal space, or as Henny Heideger would say, their 336 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: um defense distance, right, yeah, which I mean that leads 337 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: to the you know, that really backs up the whole 338 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: original defense mechanism thing right exactly. Um that that that's 339 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: probably what it evolved from. And then when he did 340 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: the opposite, if he if he prevented those neurons for firing, 341 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: he could get as close as you wanted and the 342 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: monkey wouldn't flinch, essentially all right. And then nineties seven 343 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: rise a lotty. I believe this is where the first 344 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: sort of big book around this came out. He and 345 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: his colleagues put out a book called The Space Around Us, 346 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: where they basically gathered up, you know, a couple of 347 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: decades worth of research and said here's what we've got 348 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: so far. Right. One of the big things that they 349 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: said in that was that, hey, what we thought before 350 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: is that there's all this different sensories information coming in 351 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: tactile information audio, visual, all that stuff, and the brain 352 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: is kind of bringing it all together and analyzing it 353 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: and then telling the motor nerves what to do to respond. 354 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: That's not right. It turns out that there are neurons 355 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: that can be stimulated by by visual input, by tactile input, 356 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: by audio input, the same neuron it will respond. The 357 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: point isn't what kind of stimulus it is, it's where 358 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: it's happening. So like, if something's happening in the pair 359 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: of personal space, a neuron that's responsible for the pair 360 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: of personal space around your right elbow, if you see 361 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: something around your right elbow coming at it, like an arrow, 362 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: or if an arrow is actually touching now your elbow, 363 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: that same neuron is going to fire in just the 364 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: same way. Um. That that was a big thing. It's 365 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: not stimulus specific, it's location specific. And so that kind 366 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: of changed our entire understanding of how the brain kind 367 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: of processes all this stuff. It's it's um Rather than 368 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: redundancy having all these different regions taking in stuff and 369 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: then I put it together, it's you know, specific neurons 370 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: are are dedicated to specific regions no matter how that 371 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: that sensory input is coming in well, and even in 372 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: the cool little Cherry on this Sunday was they also 373 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: found out that it's not just where something is located, 374 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: but their neurons start firing on, you know, if it's 375 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: a bow and arrow or a rake, or a club 376 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: or a baseball bat or a coffee cup. Your your 377 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: brains fires on like how you're going to physically engage 378 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: with that thing because of its locate, you know, and 379 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: and coordination with its physical location. So that comes up 380 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: a little bit later at the end with the mirror 381 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: neurons experiment. Uh, and maybe we'll just say that that 382 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: will be a nice little teaser, Okay. Cool. Another thing 383 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: that they figured out to um, I'm not sure what 384 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: the year was, but Andreas Areno at the MySpace Lab 385 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: pretty great name. Um. She found out that the size 386 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: of your PPS varies depending on what part of the 387 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: body is being studied. So, um, it's different sizes around 388 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: that your torso or your face or your hands. And 389 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: what I found just monumentally astounding, Chuck, is that the 390 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: size of your PPS altars size and shape. I believe 391 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: as you bring one PPS area into another PPS area, 392 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: so like your face comes up or your hand comes 393 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: to touch your face, and they think that this is 394 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: to prevent your hand from getting captured by your PPS, 395 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: your faces pair of personal space, and then who knows 396 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: what sort of crazy cognitive sensation that would create. So 397 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: you actually there's a mechanism to prevent that from happening, 398 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: to prevent your hands PPS from merging accidentally with your 399 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: faces PPS. Right. But one thing that they kind of 400 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: got wrong that they realized later on, and I think, Uh, 401 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: this paper came out just a few years ago. In 402 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: was that Uh, And I believe let's shout out who 403 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: it was researchers Rory Uh, Buffacci, Man, what is going 404 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: on here? I love it? Rory doesn't doesn't make you do? 405 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: You're not expecting Buffon, Rory J. Buffacci and gian Domenico Ionetti. Um. 406 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: They put forth the argument that it's like, it's not 407 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: like a switch though it's a it's a sort of 408 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: like a a gradient range basically based on the distance 409 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: something is from you. So it's not like is it 410 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: within my grasping distance or is it not? Neurons can 411 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: fire if it like it might be like if they 412 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: move something a little bit closer, the way your neurons 413 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: fire change. Yeah, They've also found that it depends on 414 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: if the thing is moving or if it's stationary, and 415 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: if it's moving, isn't moving towards you as am moving away? 416 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: Like there are a lot of nuance to it, rather 417 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: than it's either in my extra personal space or it's 418 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: in my pair of personal space, which was kind of 419 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: like the the general model for years or finding like, no, 420 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: it's it's much more nuanced than that. Um So, Chuck, 421 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: I we just realized off camera, off Mike, we have 422 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: not we haven't taken a break yet. Now. See this 423 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: is so fascinating. It's like we're having a good old 424 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: fashioned conversation. Okay, well, let's let's take that break now 425 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: then and come back. Okay, yeah, like people do in 426 00:24:32,600 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: good old fashioned conversations. All right, so we're back. Uh. 427 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: I know everyone else takes add breaks when they have 428 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: great conversations with people. So that's what we did. Sure, 429 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: Uh where are we now? We are? We had tools? 430 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: Can we talk about tools? Yeah? This is where it 431 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: really starts to get mind blowing. Yeah, this is super 432 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: cool because not only does your pair of personal space 433 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: change automatically if you wear a tin gallon hat, but 434 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: your pair of personal space will change according to what 435 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: kind of tool you're using. Yeah, and this is sort 436 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: of what I was talking about with Took. Took all 437 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: of a sudden has a as a four ft club 438 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: in his hand, and he now knows that that uh, 439 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: that animal he wants to kill or that person coming 440 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: at him, that the neurons are firing basically as if 441 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: his arm is three and a half feet longer. Yes, 442 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: it includes that. And this I think is just like 443 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: if you just think about the development of weapons over 444 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: the years, you and weapons, I think, well, I mean 445 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: some of this stuff was actually in our book on 446 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: the chapter on the first gun, but it really I 447 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: don't know, it never occurred to me that all weapons 448 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: development since the beginning of time has just been to 449 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: get further and further away from your enemy. Oh yeah, 450 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: that's a good point. Like you have a club that 451 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: you can hit some with or a sword, and then 452 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: you're backing up a little bit more and your pair 453 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: of personal space is automatically reading this in. But I'm 454 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: curious about like when you start shooting arrows and then 455 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: guns and then eventually long range missiles, like neurologically speaking, 456 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: what that does you know? Right? Um? But also with tools, 457 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: not just weapons, but any like the fact that you 458 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: can use a screwdriver, um or hit a baseball with 459 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: a bat. It's not about sometimes I'm like co on, 460 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: let's chill out, Chuck, let's get a more Richard scary 461 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: than actually scary. Um. So. Uh. The fact that you 462 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: can use a screwdriver is not because your hand is 463 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: pres cisely guiding that screwdriver. It seems to be because 464 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: the pair of personal space of your hand is now 465 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: being extended to the tip of that screwdriver. So it's 466 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: almost like if you could turn screws with your finger. 467 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: You're doing something very similar as far as your neurons 468 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: are concerned, because they've now adopted the screwdriver as part 469 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: of your hand and extended your pair of personal space 470 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: around it. So your body schema has now adjusted and 471 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: you look like you have an extra finger that's really 472 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: thin and really long. Uh. There's a really cool study 473 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: again in Italy. Uh in two thousand, uh Anna Berti 474 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: and Francisa Fressinetti looked at a woman who had a 475 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: stroke on the right hemisphere of her brain and they 476 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: did these experiments to you know, these near and far 477 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: space experiments to see how her neurons fired when like 478 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,959 Speaker 1: reaching for something with a hand or reaching for something 479 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: not really reaching, but using a laser pointer to you know, 480 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: extend your extra personal space really far out there. Uh. 481 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: And I believe when she was asked to find the 482 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: midpoint of a line within her pair of personal space, 483 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: like with her finger, maybe she put the mark really 484 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: far to the right because the right hemisphere of her 485 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: brain had been damaged through the stroke. She was asked 486 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: to do the same thing with this laser and she 487 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: did a really much better job. And then they gave 488 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: her a stick, And I believe that she used the 489 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: stick and did uh, worse than the laser, right, but 490 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: better than her finger. Yeah, because her brain didn't adopt 491 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: the laser dot as part of her body schema, but 492 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: it did adopt the stick, so constantly remapping basically. Yeah. 493 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: But it also showed that the brain treats these two 494 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: places very much differently that they're they're they're not the 495 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: same as far as the brain is concerned. And it 496 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: also showed that when you use a stick over a 497 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: laser point in your brain is treating that stick like 498 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: a tool. It was just really good early evidence that, Yeah, 499 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: we definitely change our body scheme and to adopt tools 500 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: when we use them. Yeah, and it sort of made 501 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: me think about along with this next study, this was 502 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: UM not in Italy actually, this is in Japan around 503 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: two thousand, where they took monkeys again and they gave 504 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: them rakes, uh to see if they would treat a 505 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: rake like an extension of their body neurologically speaking, and 506 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: they did. They could get food that was you know, 507 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: further away just using that rake, but they also were 508 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: able to use a video monitor. These monkeys would to 509 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: see an area where there would be food that they 510 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: couldn't see without looking at the video monitor, and they 511 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: looked at this monitor basically to see where this food 512 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: was hidden. And they still use this rake as an extension. 513 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: Like it made me think of sort of like a 514 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: surgeon using robotics basically the same thing must be happening 515 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: in their brain when they're looking at a video screen 516 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: and operating an extension of their you know, scalpel. Yeah. 517 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: I think more more recent tests UM using virtual reality 518 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: headsets have found like that. Yeah, you like, that's exactly 519 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: what's going on your You can adopt something on a 520 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: video screen your brain can and be like this is 521 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: what this is part of my body schema for the moment. 522 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: And what I thought was even more interesting, or at 523 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: least as interesting, is that the same researchers found that, um, 524 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: when the monkeys were just holding the rake, their their 525 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: pair of personal space just shrunk back down to normal. 526 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: But when they were yes and if they were using 527 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: as a tool, then the pair of personal space extended 528 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: around it. So it has to do with like what 529 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,479 Speaker 1: I can't remember. One of the researchers was saying, like, 530 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: we interact with the world and objects, and we retreat 531 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: objects based on what we can or can't or plan 532 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: to do with those things when we interact with them 533 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: in pair of personal space. And all of that, by 534 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: the way, was in Japanese researchers at Sushi Riki's lab 535 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: with an Italian flare. It's got to be for this episode. 536 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: The same thing happens. Like when you're in a car, 537 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: if you're driving a small car as opposed to driving 538 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: like a big box truck, your your neurons are gonna 539 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: fire differently because you know, you know, you're constantly trying 540 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: to figure out if you can squeeze in through a 541 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: space with a larger vehicle. Dude, the very fact that 542 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: we can drive a car is because of a pair 543 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: of personal space. Can you imagine like we could conceivably 544 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: still drive, um it just knowing like if I turned 545 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: the wheel this way or turn them um, But it 546 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: would be the most harrowing experience. No one would drive. 547 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: It would be so scary to drive because we we 548 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: the reason why it's not as scary as we have. 549 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: We've extended our pair of personal space to our car. Now. 550 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: It's nuts what our brains are willing to do when 551 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: we throw technology at them. Well, and you know I've 552 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: mentioned before when I drove in Australia opposite z steering wheel, 553 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: opposite side of the road, I had to really concentrate, 554 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: very very hard because you were so wired to just 555 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: being in a car and driving and making turns in 556 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: a certain way. Uh. It really shook shook me up. 557 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: And I think stimulated. Uh I say stimulated me And 558 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: it sounds dirty all of a sudden, I'm driving around 559 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: Australia in a in an excited state, but that was 560 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: but it stimulated my brain. I just felt more. I 561 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: felt so alive. Yeah with you, Yeah, because you zone 562 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: out so easily when you drive. Sometimes when you're just 563 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: taking off for granted driven that yeah, it is dangerous. Um. 564 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: There was one other thing I saw that I thought 565 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: was just astounding about this. Um. It seems that your 566 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: pair of personal space can basically merge with another person's 567 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: under certain conditions to where you're doing, um, synchronized motions 568 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: and movements that require coming into contact with one another, 569 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: like synchronoz swimming. Let's say no, no, because you're not 570 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: actually touching. This would be more like a bucket brigade, 571 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: or if you're doing a baton run and you're handing 572 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: off a baton at that moment when the baton is 573 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: being passed, that it's being manipulated. It's a part of 574 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: two different people's pair of personal space at the same time, 575 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: so you are connected to that person via a pair 576 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: of personal space through the baton. Are you do people 577 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: touch in senor nice swimming? I don't think I think 578 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: you get disqualified for that. It's frowned on. Oh no, 579 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: I thought you're saying they did touch. No, no, I'm 580 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: saying not not synchronized swimming because they don't touch. Okay, 581 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm just confused now. Do they touch or not. 582 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: They do not talk. They just swim around near each 583 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: other in the same pattern. Right. Although I have a 584 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: great story, Um, it's not synchronized swimming. But I was 585 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: on a swimming team when I was a younger kid, 586 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: and I was terrible, terrible. I now realized that the 587 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: coaches put me in just for fun, just just to 588 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: get their their kicks watching me swim terribly. And um, 589 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I know that is because 590 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: they put me in a backstroke and I was the 591 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: worst backstroke swimmer ever. Um, because I would cross at 592 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: least one lane if not to and bump into another 593 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: swimmer and we'd both be so surprised we'd stop and 594 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: stand up, and I would accidentally disqualify both of us 595 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: because if you stand up in the pool, if your 596 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: feet touch the bottom, you're disqualified. So that was in 597 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: that case. It wasn't synchronized swimming, but we were touching. 598 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: Young Josh being like, why would anyone swim backwards so 599 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: dumb you can't see anything. Just let me do the breaststroke. 600 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: I can do that. Or you developed the first backstroke 601 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: rear view mirror that just like sits on your chest Uh, 602 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: so maybe we should talk a little bit about some 603 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 1: of the other cool findings, like uh they have found that, um, 604 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: it's not just tools, but like anxiety and your mood 605 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: can change your pair of personal space whether or not 606 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: you're interacting with someone from a different culture can uh. 607 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: They have found that, you know, if if you're interacting 608 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: with someone from a different culture, generally, UM you might 609 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: not feel as comfortable with them being close to you 610 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: as you would someone from your own culture, which explains 611 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: a lot. It definitely does. UM. They also found that 612 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: spinal injuries can reduce the size of the um pps 613 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: if the person is lost the ability to control their 614 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: limb um and they you can actually simulate this if 615 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: you have ten hours to kill UM. You can just 616 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: keep your leg immobilized for ten hours and it will 617 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: temporarily shrink your personal space around your leg because your 618 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: brain is basically like, oh, I guess that legs not 619 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: in use any longer. Yeah, well, if you're pregnant, you're 620 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: gonna grow that PPS because all of a sudden you 621 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: have a a basketball under your shirt. So it's you know, 622 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,439 Speaker 1: people think that was obviously probably in a luctionary um 623 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: protection measure to protect that baby in the belly. People 624 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,919 Speaker 1: take a wider berth around people they deem important or 625 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: high status or celebrity or famous or whatever. Uh. And 626 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,439 Speaker 1: it's not them saying, hey, I need space. It's it's 627 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:24,720 Speaker 1: you regarding their status and instinctively not going as close 628 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: to them. No, that's true, but you're increasing your space. Um, 629 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: because you're I guess, kind of anxious around them. Yeah, 630 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: it's very interesting. Um, one that I saw that explains 631 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: a lot. I hadn't really thought about it. Um, it's claustrophobia. 632 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: People who have claustrophobia have bigger pair of personal spaces. 633 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: So it's like, if you're stuffed into a like a 634 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, drainage culvert or something that's narrower than 635 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 1: your pair of personal spaces by a lot, you could 636 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: have claustrophobia. I think that's fascinating. Or I'll give you 637 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: a different example. If you're kidnapped and put into a 638 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: coffin and buried alive, you may feel claustrophobic because your 639 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: pair of personal spaces being violated. We uh got pivoted 640 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: away from Florida because of the hurricane for fall break, 641 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: and so we went to last minute trip to Chattanooga, Tennessee. 642 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: And this sort of stuff is all in play if 643 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: you're doing Rock City and Ruby Falls, because in Ruby 644 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: Falls you're either ducking or avoiding things, or in Rock 645 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: City there are quite a few places where you're squeezing 646 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: through tight areas, uh and also ducking. So I wish 647 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: i'd I mean, it's not like I was running into 648 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: things because I have my neurons are working fine. But um, 649 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: if you have claustrophobia, imagine you have a hard time 650 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: with places like that, or any sort of neurological condition 651 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: that affects your PPS, than those places are not gonna 652 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: be great for you. Yeah, we had a good talk, man. Yeah, 653 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 1: I was gonna say there aren't that many roadside attractions 654 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: from the thirties that still hold up to day, but 655 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: those two definitely do. Both very cool. Um, Chuck, I 656 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: say that we take a break and come back and 657 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: talk about personal space as most people understand it. How 658 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: about that let's do it so like I was saying 659 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: personal spaces as most people think of it, as like, Um, 660 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: you're making me a little nervous, you're a little close 661 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: talking to me or whatever. Who wasn't judge Reinhold the 662 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: close talker and signfld um. That's called prox semics, and 663 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: that got its name from an anthropologist, actually, a guy 664 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,879 Speaker 1: named Edward Hall back in ninety six. And I don't 665 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: know if he adapted Heinie heddagers um distances that he 666 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: came up with for animals or if it was just 667 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: like he made the same observations and came up with 668 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: different labels, but he basically replicated headagers thing for the 669 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: swing in sixties instead. Yeah, and you know, when it 670 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: comes to proximics in personal space, obviously all of this 671 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: depends on who it is. Like they don't do studies 672 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,919 Speaker 1: on like if your if your boyfriend or girlfriend walks 673 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: into the room, like you know, all those rules are 674 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: kind of thrown out the window. They're talking about like, 675 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: you know, strangers who don't know each other generally. And 676 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: the way they might research this is having a participant 677 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 1: like stand there and have a um, you know, control 678 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,399 Speaker 1: walk into the room and say, hey, you just tell 679 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: me when to stop, like right when you start feeling 680 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: uncomfortable to how close I am, tell me when to stop, 681 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: shout stop stop, Which this is gonna very wildly among people, 682 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: I think, uh in general, but I think they did 683 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: find some commonalities among cultures when it comes to comfort distances. Uh, 684 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: they're they're like I said, some people are gonna have 685 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: their own uh uh like really good reasons, personal hang ups. Uh, 686 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: some people have neurological conditions that are gonna kind of 687 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: factor in. But if you're just generally talking about a 688 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: person and a culture, they have found that. Weirdly, I 689 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: was surprised that Americans are about average with um, what 690 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: do they call it, like average physical proximity. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 691 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: We're we're a little more than average ly comfortable with 692 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: that kind of that. Just it feels like Americans are 693 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: more prone than other cultures to be like, hey, like 694 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: do you mind backing off a little bit? Yeah, But 695 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,919 Speaker 1: it makes sense. And there was a guy um who 696 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 1: suggested I think it actually might have been Edward Hall 697 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: who suggested that, um, different cities in different countries are 698 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: laid out differently based on the personal space that that 699 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: culture has, And it would make sense. In America, we're 700 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: all about wide open spaces and don't fence me in 701 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: and all that stuff. So I could totally see that 702 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: being you know, American compared to like a European city 703 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 1: where buildings are just built on top of buildings. There's 704 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: little narrow alleyways that lead to charming bookshops and stuff 705 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,439 Speaker 1: like that. I I could see that totally based on 706 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: personal space, that that culture values without anyone having any 707 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: idea that's what's doing. Yeah, And I had to you know, 708 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: I value my personal space and I had when I 709 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: lived in l A. I had to reckon with um 710 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: realizing that like, hey, in a town like Los Angeles, 711 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: a melting pot like that, people are coming from all 712 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: over the world and you're gonna be shopping, uh in 713 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 1: close proximity to them and rubbing elbows and there lived 714 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: experienced wherever they came from. It's different than your bub 715 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: and so like you can't you know, if if someone 716 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: grew up in India and uh, like I'm trying to 717 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: picture like a really crowded bazare or something where people 718 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: are like packed in and trying to order things like, 719 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: that's a whole different experience than growing up in the 720 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: Southeast in a in a big, huge grocery store. And 721 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: so if someone creeps up on you a little bit, 722 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: you gotta keep that in mind as an American, and 723 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 1: I can see you laying there thinking that with your 724 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: elbows out to the side, your hands behind your head, 725 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,799 Speaker 1: and then your brain says, Okay, now get up and 726 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: go squeeze some orange shoes because it's gonna be a 727 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: beautiful day. I did have a little bit of I 728 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,760 Speaker 1: try to be understanding, but I got a little salty 729 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,280 Speaker 1: a couple of times in chatt a new personal space 730 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 1: really well. But the little statue elves my personal philosophy 731 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: is is if I can't like reach behind myself and 732 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: get like my wallet out of my pocket without elbowing someone, sure, 733 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: that's way too close. Then you're too close. Especially in 734 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 1: these days, that person is used an r F I 735 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: D skimmer on you if they're that close to your wallet. 736 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 1: Also had a kid behind me that was doing that, 737 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,800 Speaker 1: like let's let's kick the guy's feet when he walks 738 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: and laugh about it with his brother, and I was like, 739 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: all right, they were kicking your feet. Yeah, yeah, one 740 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:17,399 Speaker 1: of the kids was kicking his feet and I heard 741 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: him laughing to his brother and I was like, all right, 742 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 1: just stay cool, chuck. This is a kid. Your kid 743 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: annoys people too. And then the mom I didn't even 744 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: have to like give a dirty look. The mom was 745 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: on it and was like, you need to back off 746 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 1: of that guy, and I was like, oh, it's fine, 747 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 1: but yeah, right, Oh, I hadn't even noticed anyway, A 748 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,320 Speaker 1: long way of saying that people come from different cultures 749 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: where they have different levels of comfort with what Edward 750 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: Hall called um intimate distance, which is hugging which is great, 751 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 1: or whispering in someone's ear, which is the worst possible thing, 752 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: putting your tongue in someone's here, Uh, that could be nice. 753 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: Um personal distance, which is comfortable with close friends but 754 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: not acquaintances. Social distance, which is like the water cooler 755 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: chat six ft, yes, six ft, or what they call 756 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: public distance, what he called public distance, and that's I 757 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: guess when you're like on a stage projecting and guesturing 758 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: largely and stuff like that. Yes, And it really does 759 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: remarkably resemble Heinie Hettagar's um separation of zones for for 760 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,800 Speaker 1: animals species and that makes sense because we're still animals too, 761 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: And so it seems like what the differences between personal 762 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 1: space and para personal space and physically they overlap a lot, 763 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 1: is that And this is just me editorializing, but I 764 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 1: think personal space is that original defensive zone that evolved 765 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,880 Speaker 1: that animals have that Heinie Hettagar turned up, um, that 766 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: we still have again because we're animals, and that para 767 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: personal space is that acceptation that came out of that 768 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: personal space defensive zone and and that allows us to 769 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: interact with the environment and all sorts of new and 770 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,399 Speaker 1: amazing and interesting ways. Yeah. I like that. Physically they 771 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: occupy the same space, but mentally, um, neurologically they're they're distinct. Yeah. 772 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,920 Speaker 1: Super fascinating. Uh, I guess we can finish up on 773 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,800 Speaker 1: the return of mirror neurons. Yeah, totally very excited. I 774 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: feel like we used to talk about mirror neurons a lot, 775 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,279 Speaker 1: but we had I believe, a complete episode on them, right, 776 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: and then talked about them a lot. But it's sort 777 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,759 Speaker 1: of the idea and this is a reductive way of 778 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,879 Speaker 1: looking at it, But like seeing a football player break 779 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: their leg on the TV screen might send a weird 780 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,279 Speaker 1: pain sensation through your own leg or but it's the 781 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: opposite side, and that what they figured out. I don't know, 782 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,839 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but who was it? Willis mcgahey, Uh, 783 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,320 Speaker 1: the Miami Hurricane guy who's knee all the way backwards. 784 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I was thinking thisman, there's been 785 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 1: so many bad sort of incidences over the year, But 786 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: this is the idea that you're these are mirror neurons 787 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: and they're picking up what has happened to someone else 788 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: and like literally physically affecting you in your body. Yeah. 789 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons that this would relate to 790 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,680 Speaker 1: pair of personal spaces, they think that mirror neurons help 791 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: us basically create a mental construct of what we're going 792 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,280 Speaker 1: to do with our body with our hands by watching 793 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,279 Speaker 1: someone else doing it. And they say, well, this is 794 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,720 Speaker 1: obviously how like stone toolmaking was passed down from generation 795 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: to generation because we had the ability to watch someone 796 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: else do something and then do it ourselves because of 797 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 1: this body schema and um mirror neurons, which are probably 798 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 1: very much inter related to the point where mirror neurons 799 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 1: and the pair of personal space or body schema neurons 800 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,320 Speaker 1: are one and the same in some cases. Yeah. And 801 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: they did a study again with the monkeys. Uh, and 802 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: this had to do with kind of what I mentioned 803 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,360 Speaker 1: at the beginning about whether or not you're going to 804 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: interact with something, where they watched monkeys watching a human 805 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,960 Speaker 1: grab an object. So the monkeys just watching a person like, 806 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,920 Speaker 1: let's they grab an apple, and about a quarter of 807 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,880 Speaker 1: the mirror neurons and these monkeys fired more rapidly if 808 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: the person grabbing the apple was just simply closer to 809 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: the monkey. So, in other words, all of a sudden, 810 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: the monkey says, all right, I might have be interacting 811 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: with this thing. So different neurons are lighting up. And 812 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,799 Speaker 1: when they put up a barrier, and it was a 813 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: clear barrier, this is what confused me a little bit. 814 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: They put up a clear barrier between the person and 815 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: the monkey, and it actually did reduce those neurons lighting 816 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: up just because there was a barrier there. But it 817 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 1: was was the monkey, I guess aware of the barrier. 818 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,439 Speaker 1: It had to be yeah, okay, yeah, but it could 819 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,240 Speaker 1: still see what they was doing. But it had shut 820 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,839 Speaker 1: down the possibility to the monkey's brain that it would 821 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: be interacting with the apple. So a different, a different 822 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: experience happened in the monkey's brain because it wasn't trying 823 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,320 Speaker 1: to interact with it wasn't going to interact with the apple. 824 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:19,080 Speaker 1: Super cool, very cool, me too, man, pair of personal space. 825 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm glad we did one on it. Um, you got 826 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: anything else right now? No, just if you see me out, 827 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: give me a little room. Yeah, for sure. Don't kick 828 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 1: Chuck's feet. It's weird though, because I do like a 829 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: good hug, but like someone whispering to me, and I 830 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 1: think I have like childhood triggers for that for certain 831 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 1: reasons I won't get into. But like anybody whispering and 832 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,760 Speaker 1: my daughter whispering in my ear, I just can't handle. 833 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,319 Speaker 1: I cannot handle a whisper in my ear. I'm not 834 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 1: sure I knew that. Man. Well, I don't mind your whisper. 835 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: You're kind of the only one. Okay, how's gonna say? 836 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:57,359 Speaker 1: I feel like the sweet Nothings really do it for me. Yeah, 837 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: that Harvey's bombing episode was so good. Job. See, I 838 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,719 Speaker 1: don't mind hearing a whisper. It's got to be in 839 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: my ear. Yeah, I understand that. I mean probably because 840 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 1: it's not just um audio, it's tactile to the air 841 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,560 Speaker 1: pushing on your ear drum. Because I don't think we 842 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:18,719 Speaker 1: mentioned the final fourth type of space. Uh what was 843 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 1: it called? That? Just something close to your skin paracutaneous 844 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:27,400 Speaker 1: paracutaneous space, Yes, where that sets off a whole different 845 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,880 Speaker 1: set of neurons. They think too. That's kind of like 846 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,239 Speaker 1: the new leading edge of this um and that reminds me, Chuck, 847 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 1: I cannot find this essay to save my life. But 848 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,319 Speaker 1: it was by a philosopher, and he was basically saying, like, 849 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:44,120 Speaker 1: where do you and and the rest of the world begin, 850 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: And obviously most people say your skin, but then he 851 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,640 Speaker 1: pointed out that there's molecular exchange. There's gas exchange through 852 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,359 Speaker 1: your skin, so at a point where like a air 853 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,360 Speaker 1: molecules moving into your body through your skin, Like, is 854 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,760 Speaker 1: there really any true barrier between you and the outside world. 855 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,439 Speaker 1: It just jogged my memory when when they were talking 856 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 1: about paracutaneous space, and I was like, I wish I 857 00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:09,920 Speaker 1: could find the essay. It was one of the cooler 858 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: things I've ever read, or that cool uh thing you 859 00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 1: can do, like when you close your eyes and you 860 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: can feel when someone's hand gets close to your face. Yeah, 861 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, because they said it's not it's not 862 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,000 Speaker 1: you don't have to be touching. It can be up 863 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,840 Speaker 1: to like five centimeters away, and that paracutaneous space is 864 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: still going to give your your brain information. It's our energy, 865 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,879 Speaker 1: bro it is man, Chakra, do you got anything else? 866 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,359 Speaker 1: I got nothing else. I wish we could just talk 867 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,960 Speaker 1: about this stuff all day. It's good stuff, I agree, 868 00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,160 Speaker 1: and I think everybody listening agrees. And since Chuck said 869 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,279 Speaker 1: good stuff, that means it's time for a listener. Man. 870 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,360 Speaker 1: But if you're like, you know, after we record, we 871 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,880 Speaker 1: can just keep chatting about it, that's okay. I'm not 872 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,879 Speaker 1: doing anything else. I gotta ticket nap you all right. 873 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,839 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this license plate funny boy. You never 874 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,160 Speaker 1: know with this show what people are gonna respond to. Yeah, 875 00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,400 Speaker 1: I know that one got so much license plates just 876 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,840 Speaker 1: people loved it. It was really we got a lot 877 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,759 Speaker 1: of email about it. I think the ubiquity of some 878 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,359 Speaker 1: of these lend itself to that. But here we go. 879 00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 1: I love the episode of license Plate Guys, despite what 880 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,960 Speaker 1: Josh predicted at the beginning, because I think you said 881 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,880 Speaker 1: it was gonna be boring or something. How wrong I did. Sorry. 882 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,560 Speaker 1: I was surprised that you hadn't come across the lists 883 00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,080 Speaker 1: of rejected vanity plates that you can find for different states. 884 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,400 Speaker 1: I'm seventeen, and when I got my license about a 885 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,919 Speaker 1: year ago, these state kept lists of vanity license plates. 886 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: Were almost legend in our driver's head. I don't know 887 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,759 Speaker 1: if Georgia keeps track, but Utah Shirt does. It's still 888 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,319 Speaker 1: very fun to delight in your inner six year old 889 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: when you're reading these. My personal favorites are lilt toot 890 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:03,200 Speaker 1: poops with a Z and I can't believe this one. 891 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,760 Speaker 1: I know, I guess these are rejected huh uh I'm farting. 892 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,840 Speaker 1: Someone actually wanted a license weight that said I'm farting. 893 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:15,840 Speaker 1: I like that. I would love to see that in 894 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,320 Speaker 1: real life. I would too, highly recommend you try and 895 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: find the list for Georgia guys. The ones that aren't 896 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,359 Speaker 1: like super racists are pretty fun to read through. Much 897 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:30,440 Speaker 1: love from Elijah uh he him from Probo Utah awesome, Elijah, 898 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,160 Speaker 1: that's really cool. Thank you for that. We totally didn't 899 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,160 Speaker 1: run across this, so thanks for bringing it to our attention. Um. 900 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,640 Speaker 1: And speaking of Utah Chuck, it just reminded me. Have 901 00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 1: you seen Friend of the Family on Peacock No, I 902 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,320 Speaker 1: don't know anything about it. Uh. It is off the rails. 903 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,000 Speaker 1: It's set in the seventies, true story, weirdo true crime 904 00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,800 Speaker 1: in a way, but also just beyond nuts um and 905 00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,400 Speaker 1: has the extra bonus of my niece Mila being in it. 906 00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,839 Speaker 1: She's one of the daughters. Fantastic check it out. Though 907 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,040 Speaker 1: it's really it's really good with thro without Mila, but 908 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,920 Speaker 1: it's even better because Mela's in it, of course. And 909 00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, while we're shouting now Peacock, I don't know 910 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 1: if we ever shouted out our good friend Andy Sierra's show, 911 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,359 Speaker 1: The Resort. Oh no, we don't know. Yeah, it's our 912 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,759 Speaker 1: old friend Andy Sierra, who uh we got to know 913 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,280 Speaker 1: through the band. He was in the Henry Clay People. 914 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,400 Speaker 1: He and his brother Joey long story short, they wrote 915 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,960 Speaker 1: the theme song to our TV show and we're also 916 00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:29,680 Speaker 1: story editors as screenwriters for our show. Uh. Andy's the 917 00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:33,520 Speaker 1: one that did the Hulu movie with Andy Sandberg called 918 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,239 Speaker 1: Palm Springs, and uh he has his very own TV 919 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,480 Speaker 1: show that is fully on Peacock now. It's called The Resort. 920 00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,839 Speaker 1: It is really good. Joey was a writer on it 921 00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,120 Speaker 1: as well, and it's just a very cool, fun show. 922 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,680 Speaker 1: I highly recommended Emily and I loved it. Well. Congratulations Andy, 923 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,640 Speaker 1: that's enormous good stuff. Yeah, we're gonna check that out. 924 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for telling everybody about it too. Chuck Well, thanks 925 00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,960 Speaker 1: for Elijah for that email. And if you want to 926 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,400 Speaker 1: be like Elijah and send an email at Jogs our 927 00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,319 Speaker 1: Memory to talk about unrelated TV shows. We love that 928 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,960 Speaker 1: kind of thing. You can send us an email to 929 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:12,360 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should 930 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,799 Speaker 1: Know is a production of I heart Radio. For more 931 00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,799 Speaker 1: podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 932 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:23,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H