1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Nancy Pelosi says the Supreme Court 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: is an embarrassment to our founders. We have such a 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: great show for you today. The good Liars Jason Salvig 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: stops by to tell us about what he saw on 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: the road that made him predict the Vice President Harris 8 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: would lose. Then we'll talk to Mother Jones's Anna Merlin 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: about RFK Junior and what we can expect if Trump 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: actually adds him to his administration. But first the news. 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: So, Mollie, what are you seeing As we start to 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: get numbers from the election now. 13 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: In Arizona, Ruben Diego will in fact win the Senate 14 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: seat that he has run for against Carry Lake. Thus 15 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: perhaps now Carry Lake has been defeated in a gubernatorial 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: and Senate race, so we'll see if that stops her, 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: but Ruben will be heading to the Senate. Congratulations, Reuben. 18 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: Donald Trump has some truths he would like to tell us. 19 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: He's he is tweeting on x now and he has 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: some thoughts about Democrats and Kamala Harris's debt. 21 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 2: I'm very surprised that the Democrats, who thought a hard 22 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: and valiant fight in the twenty twenty presidential election. We 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: should also add that seems pretty out of date raising 24 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: a record amount of money, didn't have lots of money. 25 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: He's left over now they are being squeezed by vendors 26 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: and others. Whatever we can do to help them during 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 2: this difficult period, I would strongly recommend we as a party, 28 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: and for the sake of desperately needed unity, due we 29 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: have a lot of money left over, and in that 30 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: our biggest asset is the campaign was earned media and 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 2: that doesn't cost very much. Make America great again. 32 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: I assume he's being ironic here, right. 33 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: I think this is trolling. 34 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: Okay, just checking. That was my sense, but I wasn't sure. 35 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure that Lara Trump is stepping away from 36 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: the microphone and the vocal booth she's in singing a 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 2: song to go pay those bills right now. 38 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's going to be a lot of trolling. 39 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: This is Donald Trump trolling. You know, here we go. 40 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: Donald Trump will get ready for more of this kind 41 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: of thing. But also I would add this as a 42 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: person who really does not like to honor and pay 43 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: his debts, So that does not totally surprise me that 44 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: he feels that paying a debt is meant to be 45 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: sort of ironic. The big excitement for Republicans is this 46 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: leadership race that's happening right now. So Mitch McConnell, who 47 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: has really been wildly love him, hate him. Most people 48 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: who listen to this podcast are the ladder and not 49 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: the former. But he got Donald Trump three Supreme Court seats, 50 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: which have radically remade the country in ways that many 51 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: of us we haven't even seen really how serious it 52 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 1: will be. And so Mitch McConn is going to retire 53 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: from leadership, though he will keep his Senate seat until 54 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: his next election. There is a hotly contested race to 55 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: replace him with a lot of Republicans, many of whom 56 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: are very ambitious. Tucker Carlson, who is really a GOP 57 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: kingmaker in a certain way, has endorsed Rick Scott, Florida 58 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: Senator Rick Scott for GOP Senate leader. He ripped Mitch McConnell. 59 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: He said, what the hell is going on in the 60 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: US Senate? Tucker asked on X hours after Donald Trump 61 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: wins the most cohesive mandate in forty years. Mitch McConnell 62 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: in engineers a coup against his agenda. So there are 63 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: three Republicans flying for the top spot, John Cornin of Texas, 64 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: Rick Scott of Florida, and John Thune of South Dakota, 65 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: who is already the minority whip. Tucker Carlson took issue 66 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: with both Foon and Cornyn. We'll see what happens. This 67 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: is going to be a real fight to replace. 68 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 2: McConnell I really like the galaxy brain take that some 69 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: of them are doing that. Jdvans should be both vice 70 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: president and set a majority leader. That's my favorite of them. 71 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: Oh, I haven't seen that, but that's really scary. 72 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: So Moley, what are you seeing here in the House? 73 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: Though it's still very tight. I think right now Republicans 74 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: have one two hundred and thirteen seats in the four 75 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five member House. We have Democrats. We 76 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: got to get to sort of the number. But I 77 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: think there are a bunch of California seats that are 78 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: still being counted. 79 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: I believe there's ten seats, with six of them looking 80 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 2: good for us right now. 81 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: Right so six seats looking good for Democrats ten seats, 82 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: so that'll be four. It's going to be a very 83 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: tight majority. Democrats have two hundred and three seats, Republicans 84 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: have two hundred and thirteen seats, to eighteen will get 85 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: the major. We'll see what happens. There are still a 86 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: bunch of California seeds and we just have to see 87 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: what happened. 88 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: So Maya, I was feeling good. I wasn't hearing from 89 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: Jim Jordan for a while, and I had kind of 90 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: forgot about the little JACKETLI was fella. Now I saw 91 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: him creeping back onto Dana Bash's show this weekend. What 92 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: do you see here? 93 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: I see that Dana Bash has had Jim Jordan on, 94 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: and Jim Jordan has said, and I think this is 95 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: really important that she did this. She said, do you 96 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: think the twenty twenty election was free and fair? And 97 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: Jim Jordan responded, I do, I do. And then Bash 98 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: asked the question, which is a really good point, and 99 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: why is it different from twenty twenty when Trump lost? 100 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: Is that the only difference? Bash questioned, and he said, no, 101 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: there were concerns with twenty twenty in the all Mantain voting. 102 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: That happened Jordan said, what Pennsylvania had like two point 103 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: something million mail in ballots come in without any single verification, 104 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: which was required under the Pennsylvania statute. So there were 105 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: all kinds of concerns without the twenty twenty vote was 106 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: carried out. And then Bash says, okay, but there was 107 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: absolutely no widespread fraud. There was also plenty of mail 108 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: in voting taking place in Pennsylvania and the rest of 109 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: the country in twenty twenty four. So look, Republicans are 110 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: claiming that the twenty twenty election was stolen because of 111 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: mail in voting. You'll remember that in twenty twenty we 112 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: were in a pandemic, and in the pandemic, mail in 113 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: voting was the way that we did it. Because of 114 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: the pandemic, a lot of states did mail in voting. 115 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: It was not fraud. And the fact is these guys 116 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: are just saying it was fraud because Trump lost, and 117 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: now they're saying it's honest because Trump won. Jason salviag 118 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: is one half of the Good Liars. Welcome back to 119 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. 120 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: Jason, thanks for having me. I apologize. I'm a little 121 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: under the weather now. I don't know what it was 122 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 3: that did it. Maybe it was traveling to uh six 123 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 3: different states in seven days. But I'm not feeling great 124 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: right now, So I apologize for how I sound right now. 125 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you sound just all. 126 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 4: Thank you appreciate that. 127 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: Really you sound terrible. No, you sound good. And also 128 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: I want you to so this you're coming on the podcast. 129 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: I'm doing amazing, We're all. 130 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 4: Just everyone's doing great. 131 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: Sight Yeah, but I want you to talk about So 132 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: I saw you a couple of weeks ago, and we 133 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: had this conversation that I had with a couple of 134 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: different people where I said she's going to win and 135 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: you said, nope, she's not going to win. No, And 136 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: I said, no, she's gonna win, and you said no, 137 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: I have been talking to people across the country and 138 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: I don't think she's going to win. And I said, 139 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: you're wrong, and then you said, no, I think I'm right. 140 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: So explain to our listeners and quite frankly, just to 141 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: me what you saw that made you think that. 142 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 3: Well, Okay, I'm going to talk about a couple of 143 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 3: different things for it. 144 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: And give us the backstory a little bit about what 145 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: you do, just for the few people who don't know you. 146 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: Sure. 147 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'm in a group with de Ron Stifle 148 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: are called the Good Liars, and we've been traveling the country. 149 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 3: You know, we've been doing this for over a decade now. 150 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 3: We've been going out for elections and recently we've been 151 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 3: going to a lot of Trump rallies and going to 152 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 3: a lot of swing states and we've interviewed the Trump 153 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 3: supporters there. Maybe you've seen some of our videos online 154 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 3: talking to people, sometimes catching the hypocrisies of some of 155 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 3: the ways of thinking they're but also like a lot 156 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 3: of it was just we were just traveling a lot, 157 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 3: and we were going specifically to the swing states and 158 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 3: what we saw on the ground just talking to normal people, 159 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 3: not just just not people who are going and going 160 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: to a Trump rally and waiting in line there, and 161 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: they were huge, by the way, they were huge. Lots 162 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: of people are going to them always and just talking 163 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 3: to people. People were generally upset with the current administration 164 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 3: and did not have a favorable opinion of Biden. And 165 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 3: one story like sticks in my mind our travels, and 166 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 3: ironically it was in Illinois. It was right after the DNC. 167 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 3: We left the DNC, such a big party at atmosphere. 168 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 3: Everyone was so excited and we got into a car 169 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 3: to ram and I an Uber to go to the 170 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: airport and we're talking about the DNC. We're talking about 171 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 3: where we're going to film, our plans and all that 172 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 3: this stuff. And the uber driver, who was like a 173 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 3: woman in her maybe early thirties, I was like, did 174 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 3: you guys were you guys at the DNC And we 175 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 3: were like yeah, yeah, yeah, And she said, oh, oh cool, 176 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 3: I'm voting for Trump. And we were like, oh, interesting, 177 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 3: do tell And she had voted for Biden, and she'd 178 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 3: voted for Obama twice and abortion was very important to her. 179 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 3: But she did not like the direction of the country, 180 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 3: did not like how much things cost, and it was 181 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: a no brainer for her to vote for Trump. And 182 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 3: like that always kind of stuck in the back my mind, 183 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 3: being like, Oh, this person who you would think would 184 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 3: be just like in the Democrats back pocket for the election, 185 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 3: she is going to vote for Trump this time. We'd 186 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: have a couple conversations with people like that, and they 187 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: always were voting for Trump. No one who wasn't in 188 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 3: like the Democratic circles really like excited about Harris. 189 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 4: And being on the ground in the Swing States. 190 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 3: What I saw like cause you know, if you just 191 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 3: turn on the radio there you're gonna hear ads. You're 192 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,599 Speaker 3: gonna hear ads. And if you're driving like we would do, 193 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 3: driving long distances in the highway, you'd see the billboards. 194 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 3: And what I saw was the ad campaign from Harris 195 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 3: did not seem very strong to us, just like listening 196 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 3: to it on the radio, seeing the TV ads when 197 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 3: we're at the hotel, and also like the billboards. 198 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 4: I don't know who was in charge of it. 199 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 3: The billboards, it was like they were blue and yellow 200 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: and well there was a check mark that looks like 201 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 3: a cigarette being ashed in an ashtray. The whole visual 202 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 3: of all of it was not like super clear, and 203 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 3: Trump was like a caveman wrote it. It was like 204 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 3: Trump lower inflation, Harris higher, Trump safe, Harris dangerous, And 205 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: it was very to the point and not like this 206 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 3: is gonna sway everyone. You know, I'm just saying, these 207 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 3: are just observations that we had there. And the biggest thing, 208 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 3: the biggest thing of all, even if we didn't go 209 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 3: to all the swing states, I probably still would have 210 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 3: said I think Trump is going to win, just going 211 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 3: by the blast two elections and looking at the polls. 212 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 3: Because Trump always overperforms his polls, and by like two points, 213 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: like it happened in twenty sixteen, and it happened in 214 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 3: twenty twenty as well. He overperforms. And if you looked 215 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 3: at what people the most, the two most important issues 216 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 3: for people, it was always the economy and the border. 217 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 3: Like for most people, that was it, not just the 218 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 3: people we talked to Trump Trump brobaby, these are poles 219 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 3: saying this. And I looked at that, and I looked 220 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 3: at how unpopular Biden was, and then I looked at 221 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 3: how Harris. You know, she's the administration, and she had 222 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 3: not clearly defined herself in the polls. I'm just saying 223 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 3: the polls now my own opinion. She had not clearly 224 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 3: defined herself as different, separate, and just a totally different 225 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 3: entity than Biden. So you look at that, and where 226 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 3: everyone's saying it's a toss up election, I'm looking at 227 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 3: it where it's like even in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and maybe 228 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 3: she's ahead by a point in Michigan, and I'm saying 229 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 3: Trump is ahead in all of those states. That's like 230 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 3: the baseline of it. So watching the election, like from 231 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 3: the very beginning the beginning being like one hundred days ago, 232 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 3: because it's in this whole election was crazy this year. 233 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 3: She was running almost like she was ahead, but in 234 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 3: my mind she was always behind. And I know she said, oh, 235 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 3: we're the underdog, We're the underdog, but she was not. 236 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 3: Like they were not taking big swings that I wish 237 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 3: that they had taken to try and win some of 238 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 3: these other voters. 239 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 4: And I could get into the like, what the real 240 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 4: problem of it? If you want no, no, So I. 241 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: Think these are all really important points and interesting about 242 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: kind of what you saw on the ground. I want 243 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: you to talk to us about. One of the things 244 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm struck by is when you look at the swing 245 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: state numbers, you have a lot of states where Donald 246 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: Trump does fifty percent, fifty one percent, and then you know, 247 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: they leave the rest of the ticket blank. They don't 248 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: vote for the Republican. It's too much work to fill 249 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: in the bubbles for all the other candidates, so they 250 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: just don't vote. And I'm wondering, you've spent years and 251 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: years and now you will spend more years. 252 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't know. I can't even think 253 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 4: about that right now. 254 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: Trump supporters in these at these events. What do you 255 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: think those sort of the psychology there is when you 256 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: vote for Trump but you don't vote for Kerry Lake 257 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: for example. 258 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 3: Okay, I think what you're probably referring to is North 259 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 3: Carolina and Arizona. 260 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 4: Is that what you're saying? 261 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, but even Michigan right, bad, Right, all the swings, 262 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: almost all the swings dates except maybe Pennsylvania we don't 263 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: know yet, voted for Trump and then just left the 264 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: bottom of the take a blank. And I want you 265 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 1: to make sense with that with the people you've interviewed 266 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: on the trail. 267 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 3: Look, we spent a lot of time in North Carolina, 268 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 3: and you know, we focused on Mark Robinson and Michelle Morrow, 269 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 3: who both of them lost in North Carolina. She was 270 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 3: running for superintendent of public education there and she's the 271 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 3: one who like tweeted firing squad for Obama on pay 272 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 3: per view. And we all know Mark Robinson, like the 273 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 3: alleged porn site stuff and all the stuff that was 274 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 3: out there about him. So people had seen that these 275 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 3: were not great candidates, and I think Arizona had already 276 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 3: kind of made up their mind. 277 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: About Carrie Lake. 278 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: But I think what people were doing is they were 279 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 3: looking at the big issues to them, and they were thinking, 280 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 3: I like Trump because I think he's going to be 281 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 3: better for the economy, and I think they just voted 282 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 3: with the you know, thinking. 283 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 4: Of their their pocketbooks, the thinking of the wallet. 284 00:14:59,760 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 2: You know. 285 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 3: I think when the candidates were that bad, like they 286 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 3: were in North Carolina and there was that much money 287 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 3: spent against them, like, I think that is going to 288 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 3: translate to people being like, I'm going to vote on 289 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: the economy for Trump, but not for some of these 290 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 3: down ballot people. But in Pennsylvania, I think it's going 291 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 3: to be like a Republican's gonna win there, like in 292 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 3: the Senate. So I think it depends on the state 293 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 3: and like how bad the candidate is, because I think 294 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 3: some of them, like Kerry Lake and Mark Robinson there 295 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 3: it's two of the worst candidates in the history of 296 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 3: American politics. 297 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 4: Like they are that bad. 298 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 3: And you could throw Michelle Moro in there too, even 299 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 3: though it's a you know, a smaller office, but like 300 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 3: the baggage they had is terrible. Like I would make 301 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: the argument that it's not worse than denying the election 302 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 3: results and having a mob of your sports store in 303 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 3: the Capitol and refused to accept their election results and 304 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 3: all the other stuff that Trump did. But that's just 305 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 3: not how everyone saw it in the country, which is 306 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: really obviously disheartening. 307 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean, I'm trying to sort of understand. 308 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: You've talked to the people, you know these people as 309 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: much as anyone does, and I'm just trying to understand, 310 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: like how a Donald Trump not Carrie Lake voter exists 311 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: because there are thousands, tens of thousands of them. 312 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 3: We talked to numerous people on the road in a 313 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 3: bunch of different swing states, and like we would ask 314 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: him about abortion and like what they thought about Roe 315 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: v Wade being overturned, And then we heard this multiple 316 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 3: times people say, like I didn't know Roe v Wade 317 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 3: was overturned and their pro choice. 318 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 4: Or what they didn't know it. They didn't know it. 319 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 4: So like they know Trump. 320 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 3: He's this guy, He's the reality show guy who was 321 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 3: president who like tells it like it is. They know 322 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 3: who that is, so they're going to vote for him 323 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 3: and then they could leave everything else blank. That's part 324 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 3: of the mentality, is just like not knowing. But I 325 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: think also the bad candidates has a lot to do 326 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 3: with it. 327 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: Right, But they wouldn't be bad. But the thing is, 328 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: Carrie Lake isn't a bad candidate compared to Donald Trump, right, 329 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: because they're the same. You know, ultimately she ran as him. 330 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: But I think that's a really good point about not 331 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: knowing things. And I'm wondering if you can just let's 332 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: just drill down on that for a minute. So you're 333 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: interviewing people and they sort of know Trump, like him, 334 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: hate him, but know him, and they don't know other 335 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: stuff about American politics. Can you have a story to 336 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: explain this phenomenon. 337 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 3: I talked to a woman in New Hampshire during the 338 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 3: Republican primaries this year who was pro choice and said, 339 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 3: I really believe that a woman it should be. 340 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 4: Up to the woman to make that decision. I really 341 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 4: do believe that. 342 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 3: And I was like, well, how do you feel about 343 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 3: Trump appointing the Supreme Court justices that overturned Roe v. 344 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 3: Wade And she's like, I don't know if that's true. 345 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 3: I have to do my own research and figure out 346 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 3: that that's true. I'm like, no, that is true. That 347 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 3: is a fact. Like Trump will not deny that fact. 348 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 3: So there's something about, you know, just not being informed. 349 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 3: But like if you just take a step back and 350 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 3: you look at this people knew Trump and like if 351 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,719 Speaker 3: just imagine, like you live and breathe politics, and like 352 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 3: now I do. I've questioned my own life choices, but 353 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 3: now I do as well. You live and breathe politics. 354 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 3: Imagine like taking in about zero point one percent of 355 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 3: what you currently ingest from politics. 356 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 4: That is the amount that people are. 357 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 3: Some of these people, like some people are die hard 358 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 3: Trump and they, like I've said before, like they get 359 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 3: their news from truth social from Trump's posts. But like 360 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 3: some people are just like I like Trump. He tells 361 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 3: it like it is and he's my guy, and I 362 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 3: don't like read the news like January sixth is. 363 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 4: Like, oh yeah, that thing happened. I remember that a 364 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 4: little bit. What was that about? 365 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 3: Well, whatever, whatever, And they just go about their lives 366 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 3: like Roe v. Wade being overturned was not a big day, 367 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: like with you. They didn't have a pit like their 368 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 3: stomach fallout, you know, and feel sick from it. 369 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 4: They just were like, oh did that happen? 370 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 2: Oh okay. 371 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 3: Just imagine you're getting in that much and you are 372 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 3: just worried about I mean, it actually sounds wonderful doesn't it. 373 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 3: You just you're just worried about like the sports team playing, 374 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 3: or the reality show you're watching, or whatever the hell 375 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 3: you're doing, or the TikTok videos. 376 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, the dream. 377 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 3: They're living the dream, and maybe that's what we're waking 378 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,719 Speaker 3: up to. This is the American dream is being ill informed. 379 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 3: But that I think is the major thing. It's just 380 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 3: like people not not being informed, and where they're getting 381 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 3: their news is not necessarily it's not the New York Times, 382 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 3: you know, Like some people we talk to are like 383 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 3: the I watched mainstream news sometimes, like always turn on 384 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 3: Fox News every once in a while, but you can't 385 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 3: trust everything they say, and that they're getting it from podcasts. 386 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 5: I know. 387 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 4: I don't know. 388 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 3: It's not because not because of the election, not because 389 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 3: of I mean maybe the other side of that. Not 390 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 3: because they like settled a lawsuit with dominion. It's for 391 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 3: totally different reasons that they don't trust it. So I 392 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 3: do think Democrats, like there's so many different ways they lost, 393 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 3: and like how the biggest thing to me though, And 394 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 3: maybe you don't want to talk about this day maybe 395 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 3: you already talked about this. I mean, you've got to 396 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 3: go back to Biden not dropping out sooner and giving 397 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,719 Speaker 3: a possibility for somebody to define themselves in less than 398 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 3: one hundred days, let them have debates. I mean, look, 399 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 3: I thought Harris did a great job considering the amount 400 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 3: of time she had. But to introduce yourself and to 401 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 3: make it seem super organic. 402 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: No, it wasn't impossible. It was a herculean task. And 403 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: what we saw was the down ballot candidates. She saved 404 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: a lot of Senate and House seats that would have 405 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: otherwise been lost. But I agree, but you know, there's 406 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: plenty of blame to go around, and as Democrats, we 407 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: tend to love to blame. But I'm more just trying 408 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: to understand what happened before I get prescriptive on what 409 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: should happen. I also think that one of the things 410 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: that happened when a party loses an election is that 411 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: people use that failure to confirm their own priors. So 412 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: if you're person who believes that the left has abandoned 413 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: the base, then you are going to look at the 414 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: low turnout and say the Left has abandoned the base. 415 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: And if you are a person who believes that financial 416 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: indicators are key in an election, you are going to 417 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: look at that election, but I just sort of want 418 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: to understand what I missed more than anything. 419 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 3: Well, I think the poll numbers that everyone should have 420 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 3: been looking at from the very beginning, and. 421 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 4: Which it's why like I feel like. 422 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 3: I feel strong about the Biden and just his accomplishments 423 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: getting things passed, which I think were great, the good 424 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 3: things that were done. His failure as a president, I 425 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 3: think is as a communicator, and he could never articulate 426 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 3: his wins and he could never spin his losses. 427 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: And that's a larger macro problem of the Democratic Party 428 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: not being good enough at you know, one of the 429 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: things Trump does is he spends almost ninety percent of 430 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: his time communicating right right. 431 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 3: And Biden he couldn't form the thoughts. He couldn't do 432 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 3: it in a successful way. He couldn't take up the 433 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 3: oxygen when inflation is really affecting people's lives. He was 434 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 3: not able to spin it in a way somebody else 435 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 3: could have where it's either like go look at this 436 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 3: other shiny thing that we're working on here, or that 437 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: like that we're doing better than Europe and we're actually 438 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 3: like coming out of a pandemic without like a terrible recession, 439 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 3: that is like crippling the whole economy. We're actually doing 440 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 3: a pretty good job. He could not articulate it. And 441 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 3: because of that, his approval ratings were just as bad 442 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 3: as Trump. And that's not just Republicans saying that. 443 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: And that's a communication problem, and we kept seeing that 444 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: throughout the election. The problem he had communicating. 445 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, the only news thing he had that broke through 446 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 3: was he put on a Trump hat and he called 447 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 3: trump'spports garbage. Those are the two things that broke through 448 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 3: besides dropping out of the race. 449 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: That he did. 450 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 4: That's not a good thing. Now, is that sway the election? No? 451 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 3: I think that like you're playing like I said, those 452 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 3: the polls are two percent off, and it turned out 453 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 3: to be true that you're playing behind. That puts you 454 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 3: more behind. So if there was a primary or something, 455 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 3: I feel like things could be different, you could define 456 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 3: yourself in a different way. 457 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 4: But again that's Monday morning quarterback. 458 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 1: The real lesson here, in my mind, is that Trump 459 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: is a uniquely good politician, good at politics in a 460 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: way that other Republicans are not, and most Democrats are not. 461 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: Right like I mean the end, Perhaps it's because he 462 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: was a celebrity for twenty years. I mean, there are 463 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: any number of theories of the case. But like the 464 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: people you talk to, they're not necessarily committed Republicans as 465 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: much as they're committed Trump is. 466 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 3: We talked to lots of people who voted for Obama 467 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 3: twice who are Trump supporters now, Like that's very common, 468 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 3: and that's very common. 469 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: So this is not ideological at all. 470 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little bit of the personality. 471 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 3: But I think it's also like I think there's a 472 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 3: it's anti establishment, and the Democrats did not run as 473 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: anti establishment. They were saying we got Dick Cheney as 474 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: an endorsement, thinking that that sways the suburban vote, when 475 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 3: that is just it. Maybe in two thousand and eight 476 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 3: or something, maybe there was a time that that would 477 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 3: be helpful. And I don't think that's like the straw 478 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 3: that broke the Campbell's back. I'm just saying it doesn't 479 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 3: sound like it's even though the policies help the working person, 480 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 3: the messaging is never that. And even if it's the 481 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 3: mess not the messaging, it's the visual of who you 482 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 3: see out there for campaigning with the people. So I 483 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,959 Speaker 3: think there was a failure with that and it was 484 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 3: playing it safe in a race when you're down was 485 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 3: a mistake too, but also your delta really bad hand 486 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 3: because Biden didn't get out of there sooner. 487 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: Thank you. Jason Anna Merlin is a reporter and Mother 488 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 1: Jones and the author of Republican Lies, American Conspiracy Theorists 489 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: and their Surprising Rise to Power. Welcome to Fast Politics. 490 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: You've been here before, Anna. 491 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 6: I don't think so. 492 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: All right, well, I feel like you've been here before 493 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: in my night Goldfish Brain. So you you have this 494 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: piece you write for Mother Jones, and you have his 495 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: piece about RFK Junior is going to be a member 496 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: of Trump's presidency. Let's talk about RFK Junior. 497 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 5: Sure we should note though that as we're talking, we 498 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 5: don't actually know if he's going to be part of 499 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 5: Trump's cabinet. They've been very nonspecific about it, so who knows. 500 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: Though Trump has sort of made a lot of overtures 501 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: towards him. 502 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 5: Yes, definitely has is unclear in what role he will 503 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 5: actually serve in the Trump administration, but he's definitely a 504 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 5: part of his transition team and has been a pretty 505 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 5: big face of the last days of the Trump campaign. 506 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: Right give us a sort of sense of what he is, 507 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: sort of what he's talking about. 508 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 4: Robert F. 509 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 5: Kennedy Junior, obviously is an environmental attorney turned anti vaccine activist. 510 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 5: He's been an anti vaccine activist for quite a long 511 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 5: time at this point and ever since he suspended his 512 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 5: independent residential run. 513 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: Can I just pause you for a second. Why did 514 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: he take this? 515 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 4: Like? 516 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: Did he have a child with a lot of times 517 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: people become anti vacs because they have a child with 518 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: autism or something to that effect. 519 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 6: The story that mister Kennedy has told is that he 520 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 6: started looking into the connection between vaccines and autism, which 521 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 6: there is no connection that has been debunked many times over. 522 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 6: But he became. 523 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 5: Curious about this issue because a mother of a child 524 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 5: with autism begged him to get involved and look into 525 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 5: whether vaccines were causing it. So this is his kind 526 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 5: of self stated origin story. So in two thousand and five, 527 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 5: he published a piece that ran in both Rolling Stone 528 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 5: and Salon called Deadly Immunity, making a bunch of false 529 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 5: claims about vaccines and their connection to disease. It was 530 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 5: eventually retracted by Rolling Stone after a series of errors. 531 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 5: But yeah, his claim is that it came out of 532 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 5: parents asking him to get involved. 533 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: Okay, so all right, sure, so talk to me about 534 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: this piece. 535 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 4: Right. 536 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 5: So Kennedy suspended his independent presidential campaign a while ago 537 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 5: and endorse President Trump. Started using this slogan a make 538 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 5: America Healthy Again, which is meant to kind of illustrate 539 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 5: the polices where Trump and Kennedy's agendas overlap, and is 540 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 5: meant to be a promise about what mister Kennedy will 541 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 5: do under a second Trump administration. But the reality is 542 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 5: that a lot of what they are talking about is 543 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 5: rooting out supposed corruption in public health agencies by essentially 544 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 5: dismantling them. Kennedy, as part of his anti vaccine activism 545 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 5: for a long time, has implied not just some kind 546 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 5: of connection between big pharma and public health agencies, but 547 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 5: also a sinister level of collusion hiding all these things 548 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 5: that he believes are happening behind closed doors where public 549 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 5: health is concerned. Project twenty twenty five has called for, 550 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 5: for instance, breaking up the sea into two smaller agencies. 551 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 5: So what both of these guys agree on and what 552 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 5: they are proceeding together with is this idea that public 553 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 5: health agencies, as they exist right now in the United 554 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 5: States shouldn't and that scientists, for instance, should be investigated. 555 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 5: He's made a lot of promises about, you know, quote 556 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 5: unquote cleaning up medical journals, which are of course not 557 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 5: under the offices of the federal government. 558 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 6: So there's a lot going on here. 559 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: Wait, can I ask you a question as a baffling aside. 560 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: Sure you've written about him a bunch. Is he not smart? 561 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 4: Oh? 562 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 6: I don't know. I wouldn't. I wouldn't be comfortable saying 563 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 6: whether anybody is smart or not smart? 564 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: Right. What do you think drives some of this? So? 565 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 5: I think that he specifically has always proceeded under the 566 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 5: kind of assumption that every kind of like public health 567 00:28:54,880 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 5: agency is corrupt and that it has to be like 568 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 5: rooted out. This is a claim that he makes not 569 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 5: just about vaccines, but about things like you know, five 570 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 5: G technology, GMOs, and so I think if you proceed 571 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 5: with kind of like an overwhelming sense of everything being 572 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 5: deeply corrupt, then you tend to kind of make sweeping 573 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 5: statements like this. 574 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that answers 575 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 6: your question. 576 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 1: I think what you're saying, which is important, is that 577 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: it's paranoia on some level, or it's being convinced that 578 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 1: these people are not on the level. 579 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 6: Yeah, that is definitely a claim that he's made for 580 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 6: a long time, sometimes in more extreme forms than he 581 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 6: is right now, for instance, when he's speaking to sort 582 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 6: of like friendlier anti vaccine audiences. But yeah, I mean, 583 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 6: I think it's sort of important to. 584 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 5: Point out here that there is a pretty high degree 585 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 5: of distrust and paranoia in against the medical establishment in 586 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 5: the United States. Like, you know, conspiracy theories about the 587 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 5: medical establishment are incredibly common. 588 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: And especially after COVID. 589 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:03,479 Speaker 5: Sure, especially after COVID, people feel disaffected by the medical system. 590 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 5: They feel like it is not there for them. And 591 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 5: so his kind of line about rooting out supposed corruption 592 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,479 Speaker 5: in those agencies probably finds more of a receptive audience 593 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 5: than it would have before COVID. 594 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: Yes, for sure. And I think that's a really important 595 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: point because I think that that's absolutely one hundred percent 596 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: true anyway, So continue. 597 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 5: So, Yeah, the MAHA agenda is basically about all of 598 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 5: these ways that they are going to dismantle these agencies investigate, Yeah, 599 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 5: the editors of medical journals. But you know, in the 600 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 5: midst of all of this, as I said, we don't 601 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 5: actually know where exactly Kennedy fits into a Trump administration. 602 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,479 Speaker 5: They've been pretty vague about it. But the thing that 603 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 5: both Trump and Kennedy have said over and over is 604 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 5: that Kennedy is going to be responsible for curing what 605 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 5: they both call the chronic disease epidemic. Kennedy also told 606 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 5: a group of MAHA supporters that Trump quote promised me 607 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 5: control of the public health agencies, including AHHS, the CDC, FDA, NHUSDA, 608 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 5: and a few others. 609 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 6: So that is the claim that he's made. 610 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: It seems like a lot. 611 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 6: It seems like a lot. 612 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 5: It doesn't really make a lot of sense, though I 613 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 5: guess it doesn't have to. But the one other thing 614 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 5: we should have known here is that in twenty seventeen, 615 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 5: Kennedy claimed that Trump had asked him to be on 616 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 5: a vaccine safety commission looking into, you know, whether anything 617 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 5: about the vaccine kind of administration system needs to be 618 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 5: overhauled or whether vaccines are unsafe, which is of course 619 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 5: a belief that he has, and that didn't happen, right 620 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 5: Like the Vaccine Safety Commission didn't happen. 621 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 6: Kennedy did not play any role in the first Trump administration. 622 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 5: So there is a little bit of a question here 623 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 5: about whether or not this is like a promise that 624 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 5: will be appalled. 625 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: That sounds like it makes a lot of sense, as 626 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: much as any of this makes sense, which is not 627 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: a lot. 628 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the same as like Elon Musk, Right, you know, 629 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 5: we don't actually know to what extent any of these 630 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 5: guys are going to be involved in the Trumpet administration 631 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 5: in an ongoing way, because what we know from a 632 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 5: previous Trump administration is that it had really high turnover, 633 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 5: a lot of people had the same jobs for a 634 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 5: very short period of time. 635 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: So we'll see, yes, exactly. So anyway, continue on with 636 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: this story. Yeah. 637 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 5: So one of the things that Kennedy has said about 638 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 5: the supposed like Maha agenda is that he's going to 639 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 5: end what he's called the FDA's war on public health. 640 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,959 Speaker 5: But then when he lists things that he considers to 641 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 5: be tenets of public health, a lot of them are pseudoscience. 642 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 5: So he tweeted this includes its aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, 643 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 5: stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, chelating compounds, ibermectin, hydroxychloroquin vitamins, 644 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 5: clean foods, sunshine, exercise, nutraceuticals, and anything else that advances 645 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 5: human health. 646 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 6: And can't be patented by pharma. 647 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 5: He also added, if you work for the FDA and 648 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 5: or part of this corrupt system, I have two messages 649 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 5: for you. One preserve your records and two pack your bags. 650 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 5: So it would take us too long to get into 651 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 5: each of those things individually. 652 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: Hit sunlight. Let's start with sunlight. 653 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 5: So, I mean, I don't know if you remember, but 654 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 5: this was a pretty widespread claim during the start of COVID, 655 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 5: is that sunlight was if. 656 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: You bring it into the body, Yes. 657 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, a literal disinfectant and maybe that would cure COVID, 658 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 5: which it turned out it didn't. Hyperbaric therapies I have 659 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 5: to assume there he means hyperbaric oxygen chambers, which are 660 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 5: a debunked and very dangerous fake treatment for autism. Hyperbaric 661 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 5: oxygen chambers are used for deep sea divers who are 662 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 5: suffering from the bends. That's their actual use. There has 663 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 5: been at least one death from a family who is 664 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 5: using a hyperbaric chamber to treat their suns autism. 665 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 6: Same with kylating compounds kulation. 666 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 5: Again as the practice of drawing heavy metals out of 667 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 5: the body. Yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff in 668 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 5: here that suggests again again raw milk. 669 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: Raw milk seems to be like a real maga thing, right. 670 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think it. It connects a few 671 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 6: different things, right. 672 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 5: One is government regulation because there are a lot of 673 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 5: places where you can't legally sell raw milk. The second 674 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 5: is this idea that anything quote unquote natural is better, 675 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 5: you know, that pasteurization does something bad, which it doesn't. 676 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 5: And the third is sort of a belief in I 677 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 5: guess food born illness not existing. 678 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 6: I mean, we have. 679 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 5: Really good data about what raw milk does or can do, 680 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 5: and it's not great. 681 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like there are so many problems in 682 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: this world that it seems hard to imagine that you 683 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: need to get involved in unpasteurized milk. But I guess 684 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: you do. 685 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 2: Right. 686 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 5: It's been a really big thing lately with sort of 687 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 5: wellness influencers online, as I'm sure you've seen, any of 688 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 5: whom were also pretty enthusiastic Kennedy supporters. I think it's 689 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 5: kind of symbolic of a bigger set of approaches towards 690 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 5: towards health and sort of an individualized view of health 691 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 5: as opposed to a kind of public or systemic view 692 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 5: of health. 693 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I think that's right, So continue on this road. 694 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 695 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,399 Speaker 5: So, I mean, the big thing here that Kennedy has 696 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 5: talked about a lot is that there is a chronic 697 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 5: disease crisis that poses like an existential threat to the country, which, like, 698 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 5: I don't think anybody would dispute that Americans suffer from 699 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 5: some chronic diseases at higher rates. That is a thing, 700 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 5: you know what I mean when we're talking about stuff 701 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 5: like cancer, diabetes, asthma. But there doesn't tend to be 702 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 5: And I spoke to an immunologist and public health expert 703 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 5: about this named doctor Andrea Love, who talked about this 704 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 5: a lot, which is essentially that there doesn't tend to 705 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 5: be a discussion of like we have chronic diseases like 706 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 5: asthma that affect kids because of air quality, we should 707 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 5: focus on cleaning up air quality instead, it tends to 708 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 5: be about kind of individual approaches and cures, like you know, 709 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,399 Speaker 5: future kids around milk. And so there's an interesting thing 710 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 5: that's going on here where fundamentally what Kennedy is talking 711 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 5: about here and what Trump has thrown his support behind 712 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 5: is an atmosphere of less oversight, less regulation, less regulation 713 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 5: of food, of medicines, of supplements, and so to a 714 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 5: lot of public health experts that I've spoken to, it 715 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 5: doesn't really seem like a environment that would actually make 716 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,280 Speaker 5: Americans healthier, but it would certainly let people sell stuff 717 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 5: and market stuff that they can't right now. 718 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: Right, And that makes a lot of sense, right, because 719 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,439 Speaker 1: that is sort of the thought of Trump world, right, 720 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: selling things that might not necessarily be good for people, right. 721 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 6: Yeah. And also just a belief in deregulation. 722 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 5: I mean, this is something that we see in Trump 723 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 5: World and also on the rite more generally, this belief 724 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 5: that government agencies are too big, that they exercise too 725 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 5: much control, but in the case of things like food safety. 726 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,760 Speaker 1: They actually don't because we haven't had a food regulation 727 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: change in a long time anyway. Sorry, I actually know 728 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: about tho. 729 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's sort of interesting, right because also 730 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 5: most Americans in our lifetime, pretty much everybody who's alive today, 731 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 5: does not remember a time before we had food regulations. 732 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 5: You know, we don't remember a time when you might 733 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 5: be fed a patent medicine concoction that was made entirely 734 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 5: of cocaine and laudanum that would kill your baby, Like 735 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,760 Speaker 5: we don't actually have a living memory of those things, 736 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 5: which can be super persuasive for some folks who feel 737 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 5: just sort of ambiently like something's wrong in our health 738 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 5: system and are attracted to mister Kennedy's kind of proposals 739 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 5: of how to fix it. 740 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, is there any bright spot here? 741 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 5: Well, I guess it depends on who you are, right, 742 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 5: I'm sure some people are. I wrote another piece this 743 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 5: week about mister Kennedy's anti vaccine organization, Children's Health Defense, 744 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 5: which used to be called the World Mercury Project back 745 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 5: when he was claiming that a form of mercury in 746 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 5: vaccines was making kids sick, and then he switched to 747 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 5: a different set of claims and changed the name. Those 748 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 5: people are really excited, obviously they see this there a 749 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 5: big moment for them and their movement. I think for 750 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 5: the rest of us, it is helpful and useful to 751 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 5: know what these folks are proposing and what their vision 752 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 5: is for how public health should look in the United States. 753 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 6: This would be a. 754 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 5: Great time to have a conversation with your doctor. If 755 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 5: you have a trusted healthcare provider and make sure if 756 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 5: you personally are somebody who gets vaccinated, that you were 757 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 5: up on your shots and things like your tetanis booster, 758 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 5: which is good practice always right but especially especially right now. 759 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 6: I don't know. 760 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 5: I think that in this area is with so many 761 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 5: other things about the impending Trump administration, it's great to 762 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 5: have information. It's great to just know what is going 763 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 5: on and what the proposals are, and people can choose 764 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 5: how to respond to them in their own lives in 765 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 5: kind of productive ways as opposed to just feeling a 766 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 5: sense of doom. 767 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 6: If that's how you feel. 768 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point. Thank you so much, Anna, 769 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. 770 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 2: All Moon Jesse Cannon I joined fast. When I think 771 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 2: of the things that are most distressing about Trump's when 772 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 2: there's many, but I continually get very depressed about this 773 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 2: very subject. What are you seeing here? 774 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: Donald Trump said he's going to leave the Paris Climate Accord. 775 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: His transition team is preparing executive orders and proclamations on 776 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: shrinking the size of some national monuments to allow more 777 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: drilling and mining. The New York Times said on Friday, 778 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: Trump is expected to end the pause on permitting new 779 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: liquefied natural gas exports to big markets in Asia and 780 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: Europe provoke the waiver that allows California and other states 781 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: to have tighter pollution standards. This is going to be really, 782 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: really depressing and really sad to watch, and this is 783 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: where it's going to go, and there's really. 784 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 2: Nothing we can do, especially when it's eighty and November 785 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 2: in New York. 786 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 787 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best 788 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 789 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 790 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.