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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people who did cool stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret Killjoy. At each week, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to tell you about more cool people, including our guest

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Speaker 1: Bridget God, who is a sort of viable cool person. Bridget,

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Speaker 1: if you had to elevator pitch yourself, what would that

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Speaker 1: pitch sound like? Oh, it would sound like I am

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Speaker 1: a internet weirdo who loves to hang out and made

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Speaker 1: cool podcasts. That's bad and it works. I'll leave it

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Speaker 1: at that. Okay. Cool. We also Sophie Liechterman on the call,

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Speaker 1: who produces this and literally every other podcast. I think, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: what's your elevator pitch for yourself as a person producer podcasts, puppies, plants,

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Speaker 1: You're welcome cool. There are a lot of plants, and

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Speaker 1: so if he's zoom background. So, in the first half

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Speaker 1: of this two parter, we talked about the women who

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Speaker 1: were computers who studied space, or people into space. Today

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about space and the people who

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Speaker 1: got into space. But first we're gonna talk about the

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Speaker 1: gay man who broke the Nazis codes and shortened World

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Speaker 1: War two by years, saving fourteen million lives and kind

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Speaker 1: of invented the modern computer, which is to say, we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about motherfucking Alan Turing, and I say

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Speaker 1: kind of invented modern computing, because there isn't actually a

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Speaker 1: specific start date for computers. It really depends on how

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Speaker 1: you're defining computer. At Leasta says, I've always understood I

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Speaker 1: think you know more about computers than me, so I'm

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Speaker 1: like making sure that I'm yeah, yeah, I definitely don't. Okay,

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Speaker 1: good to know. So Alan Turing had the misfortune of

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Speaker 1: being born in n in London. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: the year was misfortunate, but being English and gay worked

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Speaker 1: out really badly for him in the end. And not

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Speaker 1: that many places were better. But just as a white

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Speaker 1: American of Irish descentive legally acquired to make fun of

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Speaker 1: England every chance I can, because I can pretend like

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Speaker 1: it's punching up even though it clearly isn't. So there's

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Speaker 1: my job at England that turned into a jab at myself.

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Speaker 1: Alan Turner was a rich British smart kid, so he

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Speaker 1: wound up in boarding school, where he fell in love

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Speaker 1: with a fellow student named Christopher, who died of sucking

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Speaker 1: tuberculosis bovine tuberculosis. I swear to God everyone in every

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Speaker 1: episode that I record that if they're not killed violently

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Speaker 1: by a government, they're killed by tuberculosis. Christopher drank infected

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Speaker 1: milk and died Turing. I wasn't really excited about that.

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Speaker 1: He turned his grief towards his studies. He went on

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Speaker 1: to study at Cambridge, and while he was there he

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Speaker 1: did a bunch of wild math ship that is completely

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Speaker 1: beyond me, and he wrote out a sort of basic

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Speaker 1: idea of a computer, sort of conceptual but not capable

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Speaker 1: of being made. Idea of a computer called the Turing Machine.

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Speaker 1: And I know what you're thinking, because it's what I

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Speaker 1: was thinking when I was researching this. He did not

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Speaker 1: name it the Turing Machine. He's not that kind of asshole.

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Speaker 1: He named it the a machine for automatic machine, and

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Speaker 1: his doctoral advisor called it the Turing Machine. It also

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Speaker 1: doesn't exist. It's a hypothetical thing. It's a proof of concept,

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Speaker 1: but it's basic principles wound up the central concept of

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Speaker 1: modern computers, which is cool. I mean, I know computers

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Speaker 1: have done a lot of bad things, but I kind

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Speaker 1: of like them. I'm kind of addicted to them. I

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Speaker 1: like them to like, where would we be without our Like,

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Speaker 1: how would we stay up until four am researching nonsense?

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Speaker 1: Not for the computer. I know, we have to find

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Speaker 1: a library. It's much less fun to be at the

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Speaker 1: library at four am when you should be asleep researching

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Speaker 1: like a list of animals that got college degrees or

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Speaker 1: whatever random thing you're looking up on Wikipedia. Asleep. Wait,

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Speaker 1: which animals got college degrees? Oh, there's a really interesting

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia page about animals that have earned college degrees. But

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Speaker 1: they're all honorary I mean, come on, but still there's

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Speaker 1: giving us more googling. Thank you my legacy. Yeah, as

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Speaker 1: an aspiring honorary degree getter, U, I really see myself

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Speaker 1: in these animals, so I'm excited to see them. But

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Speaker 1: Alling Turing was not an honorary degree getter. He was

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Speaker 1: a regular degree getter. He might have gotten honorary ones too,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. So after school he also went to

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Speaker 1: Princeton too, I think, just to show off to go

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Speaker 1: to both Cambridge and Princeton. He got a job working

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Speaker 1: for the government and the Code and Cipher School, and

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Speaker 1: then a nineteen thirty nine The Nazis are like doing

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Speaker 1: their Nazi thing. I swear to God, it's impossible to

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Speaker 1: do a history podcast that doesn't tie in the Nazis

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Speaker 1: at some point, probably one of those animals in that

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Speaker 1: list sucking Nazi um so. And then he starts working

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Speaker 1: at as working at a super secret, top secret, extra

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Speaker 1: secret Bletchley Park in order to decipher Nazi codes, which

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Speaker 1: he succeeded at not single handedly. I think this guy's

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Speaker 1: hella cool, but we keep hitting the same point. But

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Speaker 1: it's teams of people who make history. But he still

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Speaker 1: did a fucking lot of it, and probably it certainly

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Speaker 1: would have not happened in the same way without him,

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Speaker 1: might not have happened at all. The work that they

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Speaker 1: did did not single handedly crushed Hitler, but basically having

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Speaker 1: access to all of their coded information. One historian calculated

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Speaker 1: that it shortened the war by two to four years

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Speaker 1: and saved fourteen million lives, which I mean that ain't bad.

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Speaker 1: We always talked about like, oh, this person killed X

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Speaker 1: million number of people, right, but we don't I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen the Wikipedia list of the people who have saved

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Speaker 1: the most people. Yeah, And it really goes back to

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Speaker 1: sort of like I like, it's kind of sucked up

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Speaker 1: that we talk about, like like numbers of people killed

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about war. But like, even the conception

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Speaker 1: of this action saved x amount of people's lives, we

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Speaker 1: don't really even have like an understanding of that, Like

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Speaker 1: we don't that's that's not how we describe things. Yeah, totally,

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Speaker 1: and and even like, like I'm pretty pretty antimilitaristic in

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Speaker 1: my attitude and most of the time, but I don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily apply that to World War two, where stopping the

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Speaker 1: Nazi seems like a really important thing to do, even

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Speaker 1: if all of the people trying to do it, all

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Speaker 1: the government's trying to do it were bad, like the

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Speaker 1: USSR in the US, right, But it's interesting to think that, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this person who contributed to the war saved millions of lives.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because most of the time that's not

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Speaker 1: the way that you savellions of lives. So the Nazis

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Speaker 1: are sending messages using these machines called Enigma machines, which

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Speaker 1: would be a name that would be absolutely trite if

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Speaker 1: I wrote it in fiction. And they are these typewriters

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Speaker 1: that translate between cipher text and plain text. You type

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Speaker 1: in your message, it comes out of code, or you

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Speaker 1: type in a code. It comes out of message and

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Speaker 1: it's based on a key which can change every day,

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Speaker 1: and by the time the war starts, the Nazis are

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Speaker 1: changing it every day. It was actually Polish mathematicians who

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Speaker 1: first broke Enigma, and right before World War Two they

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Speaker 1: passed that information along to the Allies. So poland sort

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Speaker 1: I guess the last laugh about that whole being crushed

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Speaker 1: by the Nazis thing, or at least they got to

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Speaker 1: participate in the reverse crushing. But then after the war

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Speaker 1: breaks out, the Nazis change how Enigma works and it

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Speaker 1: needed new breaking. The stuff gets really into the weeds.

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Speaker 1: People really like codes. Turing, in, another codebreaker, develops a

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Speaker 1: purpose built code breaking machine that they called the bomb

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Speaker 1: or the Bombay or something, and it's bomb with an

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Speaker 1: E at the end, but not like bomb e like Wally,

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Speaker 1: which would be a better choice I think they could

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Speaker 1: have made. During the war, he broke Nazi codes and

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Speaker 1: did other ship like he developed a voice scrambler to

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Speaker 1: encrypt voice calls, which is like something that I even

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Speaker 1: I conceptually struggle to imagine how I would do a

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Speaker 1: hundred years later. You know, I'm not a cryptographer, that

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Speaker 1: this is really coming across to anyone who was a

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Speaker 1: cryptographer is listening. And then after the war, he fucking

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Speaker 1: invents the modern computer. Sort of same as everyone who

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Speaker 1: invents the modern computer, lots of people do it, but

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Speaker 1: he puts forward the idea that computers can store their programs,

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Speaker 1: and this is a really major step up. And he

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Speaker 1: also stayed gay. Imagine that at one pot in one

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Speaker 1: he actually proposed to a coworker, a woman, and she

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Speaker 1: said yes, and then he was like, oh, but I'm gay,

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Speaker 1: and she was like, that's that's fine, Okay, we can

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Speaker 1: still get married. Not a deal breaker, I know. And

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Speaker 1: then Turing was like, you know, actually I probably shouldn't

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Speaker 1: marry it. I feel like that would be like dishonest

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Speaker 1: or something. But yeah, I appreciate that it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: deal breaker. For in nineteen fifty two, he's thirty nine

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Speaker 1: years old, he starts dating a younger man. He accidentally

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Speaker 1: snitches himself out to the cops about being gay. His

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Speaker 1: house had been burgled, and he made a classic mistake

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Speaker 1: that rich white people make where he thought that the

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Speaker 1: cops would um help him. Don't talk to cops exactly,

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Speaker 1: And if he had listened to our sponsor, don't talk

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Speaker 1: to cops. His life would have been very different and

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Speaker 1: probably substantially longer. So he outs himself as gay while

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Speaker 1: he's explaining like why his partner like why there's another

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Speaker 1: man in the house or whatever, like his his partner

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Speaker 1: was like unemployed and probably knew the burglar and I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it's all this complicated it. So he and

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Speaker 1: his boyfriend get arrested because they're gay and that's not right. Apparently,

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Speaker 1: he pleads guilty. First, he kind of leads like no contests,

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Speaker 1: as lawyers like, plead guilty. So he pleads guilty, and

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Speaker 1: he's given two choices. You can either go to fucking

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Speaker 1: prison for darren sleep with another consenting adult, or you

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Speaker 1: can let us chemically castrate you where the government. He

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Speaker 1: picks chemical castration. Basically, they these are just these are

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Speaker 1: hormones that feminize his body. They reduces libido, they make

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Speaker 1: him impotent, and they cause breast tissue to form. So

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Speaker 1: the punishment for being gay was being forced to transition.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, like the govern like the government. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it almost seems silly in when we know that our

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Speaker 1: governments are trying to make it like like criminalized trans

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Speaker 1: youth and like keep them from gender reform, gender reforming care.

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Speaker 1: But like, it is wild to me that we're still

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Speaker 1: having this conference. That's it seems so like backward and horrible.

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Speaker 1: But then I had to be like, oh wait, it's

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Speaker 1: not really like the government really getting involved in like

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Speaker 1: people's expression of their gender and sexuality. I wish it

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Speaker 1: were a thing of the past and that like what

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Speaker 1: a relic of of a of a different time, but

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Speaker 1: like not really unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, I I even I

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Speaker 1: like try to write a thing out in the script

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Speaker 1: about this. At all I wrote out was what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: Because like what I just keep looking at it, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, this is what they're not letting us do

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Speaker 1: on purpose now, but when the government wants to do

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Speaker 1: it to game like oh fucking no mine. Fuck. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: His boyfriend gets I think the same deal. He does

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Speaker 1: some kind of deal that gets them out of prison,

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Speaker 1: and I don't believe it was like cooperation or anything.

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Speaker 1: I think it was probably the same chemical castration. And

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Speaker 1: of course now he's a terrible monster, so he can't

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Speaker 1: keep his security clearance at the government who he entirely saved,

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Speaker 1: and he loses his job. You can't have your fucking

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Speaker 1: fourteen million lives saying fucking here, like sucking dudes off.

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Speaker 1: That'd be bad, you know. Um, And the US doesn't

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Speaker 1: let him enter because he's like so bad and untouchable again,

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Speaker 1: like the fucking hero of World War two. You can't

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Speaker 1: have someone as dangerous as that around in the US.

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Speaker 1: So two years later, on June seven fifty four, Turing

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Speaker 1: kills himself with cyanide. And it's possible that this was

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Speaker 1: an accident. I frankly don't believe it. Apparently he loved

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Speaker 1: Snow White and the Seven Dwarves was one of his

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Speaker 1: favorite films, and one biographer said that he particularly liked

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Speaker 1: the scene where the you know, wicked witch or whatever

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Speaker 1: dips the apple into poison, and a half eaten apple

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Speaker 1: was found next to his corpse and they didn't bother

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Speaker 1: to check it for cyanide before they like hucked it

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Speaker 1: out or whatever. So there was also this whole electroplating

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Speaker 1: set up in his tiny room for gold plating spoons,

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Speaker 1: and so there's like this accidental death theory that he

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Speaker 1: accidentally killed himself with cyanide that he was using to

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Speaker 1: electroplates spoons, which I don't know. I I buy the

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Speaker 1: theory that he put that there for plausible deniability. He

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Speaker 1: put that there to be like, I feel like a

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Speaker 1: lot of the time, when people choose to end their

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Speaker 1: own lives, they come up with ways to do it

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Speaker 1: in ways that kind of give everyone around them a

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Speaker 1: way to be like, well, we don't know for sure,

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Speaker 1: even though we all kind of know, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. This just gets into the what the fuck

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Speaker 1: He's another gay man driven to suicide by society they

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Speaker 1: want to accept him. I don't know. And so like

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Speaker 1: we're recording this episode and the listeners listening to this

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Speaker 1: episode with technology that this man fucking developed, um and

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Speaker 1: then the UK government killed him. As far as I'm concerned, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's at what you just said really like

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Speaker 1: puts it in perspective that we're people are listening to

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Speaker 1: this episode on technology that we wouldn't have without him,

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Speaker 1: and yet rather than being treated like the innovator and

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Speaker 1: hero that he was, he was driven to death by suicide.

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Speaker 1: And I think it, like, I don't know, maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: just in a weird place where I can't help but

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Speaker 1: see these parallels of today of like who out there

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Speaker 1: are we going to be like, Oh, if only we

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Speaker 1: had you know, celebrated them and affirmed them while they

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Speaker 1: were here, Like it's just like a generation. It's it's

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Speaker 1: so so wasteful, Like what a wasteful way to treat

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Speaker 1: someone who had so much to give to the world. Yeah, No, totally,

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Speaker 1: and it it just keeps up coming up again and

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Speaker 1: again that people people work for these institutions like governments

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Speaker 1: in order to improve the world and take humanity further

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Speaker 1: and advance human knowledge and then get basically murdered by

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Speaker 1: them or you know, thrown away. Not my favorite thing

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Speaker 1: that's happened. So let's talk about the space race. So

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Speaker 1: World War two is over and it's cold wartime, and

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Speaker 1: which brings it with it, the space race. And I'm

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Speaker 1: going to cut mostly over to the USSR for a

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Speaker 1: while because I'm not trying to be like yeah us

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Speaker 1: with this podcast. I've probably hit this theme enough. But

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Speaker 1: I don't like the U S or the U S SR.

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Speaker 1: It's a cold war between two evil powers. But they

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Speaker 1: still did all this really interesting ship the individual scientists

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Speaker 1: and the USSR, for my money, won the space race.

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Speaker 1: We got to the Moon first, which which everyone pretends

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Speaker 1: like the biggest prize. But the USSR had the first satellite,

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Speaker 1: the first mammal, the first human, the first woman, the

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Speaker 1: first and the first black men into space. Oh what

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Speaker 1: was the first mammal? Do you know? Oh? Crap, I

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Speaker 1: looked it up. Oh no, I don't, no, no no.

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Speaker 1: I I had this whole section written about the animals

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Speaker 1: they sent to space, and then I got too sad

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Speaker 1: and I decided not to include them because most of

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Speaker 1: the animals that got sent up into space were just

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Speaker 1: like sent into space and then abandoned, or some of

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Speaker 1: them were sent up into space and then came back

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Speaker 1: and then we're you know, treated badly upon their return. Um. No,

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Speaker 1: So I got really sad about the animal parts, so

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Speaker 1: then I cut it out. And now I don't remember

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Speaker 1: what the first animal was, but fruit flies were the

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Speaker 1: first like living creature. Okay, interesting, Yeah, I I'm sad

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Speaker 1: that that they didn't treat these animals well when they returned,

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Speaker 1: or if they returned. My god, I know some of

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Speaker 1: them ended like heroes or whatever. And like, you know,

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Speaker 1: some of the dogs, I think in particular, I like,

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Speaker 1: I looked it up. It was a dogo oh I

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Speaker 1: dog go. So the space race. The USSR starts it

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Speaker 1: by launching a satellite, right, and guess what inspired them

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Speaker 1: to launch a satellite. The obvious answers here would be

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Speaker 1: either like domination of the planet to a hive mind

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Speaker 1: of communism if you're reading in propaganda on one end

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Speaker 1: of the spectrum, or the further into human knowledge from

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Speaker 1: a detached atheistic point of view. After all, the uss

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Speaker 1: are we're full of atheists, right? Wrong? I mean, the

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Speaker 1: USSR was full of atheists, but not just full of

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Speaker 1: atheists and a lot of their rocket scientists. So the

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Speaker 1: philosophical underpinnions of the U S s R is entry

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Speaker 1: into the space race, the thing that started the chain

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Speaker 1: of events that got a human on the moon. Where

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Speaker 1: the cosmists? Have you ever heard of the Cosmists? I haven't.

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Speaker 1: So they're this weird, ideologically diverse philosophical and scientific movement

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Speaker 1: that is kind of cult like and it marries spirituality

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Speaker 1: and science. And they were aspiring necromancers who wanted to

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Speaker 1: raise the dead, not necromancy. Necromancy if you think the

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Speaker 1: fucking leftists arguing on Twitter are bad right now. In

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Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, there were anarchists arguing that death was

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Speaker 1: quote logically absurd, ethically impermissible, and esthetically ugly. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I somehow I didn't need

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Speaker 1: necromancy versation, roll left turn exactly so. And this is

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Speaker 1: the This is the group that includes basically all of

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Speaker 1: the early rocket scientists in the USSR and the people

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Speaker 1: designing practical spacecraft. Their ideological founder was a guy named

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Speaker 1: Nikolai Fyodorov who died penniless three of pneumonia in a

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Speaker 1: rented room full of strangers. And he came at the

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Speaker 1: whole thing from a Christian lens. He was an orthodox

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Speaker 1: Christian and the reason he died so poor is that,

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Speaker 1: in proper Christian form he gave away everything he owned.

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Speaker 1: I think he was also, I think it was I

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Speaker 1: think it was him. It was also very conservative and

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Speaker 1: like like these are. This is not like a communist hero.

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Speaker 1: But he gets called the Socrates of Moscow and he

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Speaker 1: would hold intellectual salons and he was He befriended Tolstoy

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Speaker 1: until they got into arguments about politics, Tolstoy being far left,

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Speaker 1: and Tolstoy also shows up in every episode. I do,

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Speaker 1: and I don't understand why. Um, I don't even have

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Speaker 1: any particular love for Tolstoy, but he's everywhere. If I

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Speaker 1: talk about Russia, Tolstoy is there there. He is pops

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Speaker 1: up his most important project, oh and his whole thing.

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Speaker 1: So the three things that the cosmis are trying to

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Speaker 1: do is that they're trying to colonized space. They're trying

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Speaker 1: to resurrect the dead and live forever just like you do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're on some like Peter Teel ship like I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, I mean, these are the like, these are

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Speaker 1: the forefathers of the futurist movement. Um, it really doesn't

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Speaker 1: surprise that tols Soys bring brought up when death is

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Speaker 1: being described as aesthetically ugly like that fills very brand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: fair enough. So. So this guy's most important protege was

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Speaker 1: Constantine Sholkovski, who lived in a cabin in the woods

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Speaker 1: by choice and wrote books with riveting titles like Explorations

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Speaker 1: of Outer Space by Means of Rocket Devices, and he

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Speaker 1: was talked about guiding ships of rocket thrusters. He talked

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Speaker 1: about using airlocks on space stations, and he spent his

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Speaker 1: time developing ideas of closed loop ecosystems that would keep

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Speaker 1: everyone fed on space stations, which basically means he he

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Speaker 1: came up with the basic foundations of where we're currently

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Speaker 1: at a hundred years later in terms of our space travel.

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Speaker 1: A lot of these early cosmists are right wings rists

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Speaker 1: and ship but a lot of them weren't. A lot

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Speaker 1: of them were leftists. During the Russian Revolution and the

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Speaker 1: resulting Civil War, some chunk of the cosmists became the

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Speaker 1: bio cosmists, and they're an anarchist faction and they're fighting

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Speaker 1: for colonized space, resurrect the dead live forever. Lennin famously

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Speaker 1: not excited about anarchists in general, including ones he started

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Speaker 1: off as his allies. He actually lets them hang out

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Speaker 1: longer than all the other anarchists, not because they're weird necromancers,

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Speaker 1: but because they kind of shut up and backed the Bolsheviks,

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Speaker 1: and they were mostly a poetry movement. They were so

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Speaker 1: confusing the whole fucking cosmist thing, and people are really

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Speaker 1: into the cosmis. I've never even heard of them until

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Speaker 1: I first read about them in an introduction to a

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Speaker 1: Russian novel that I was reading. Most of the rocket

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Speaker 1: scientists in USS are our cosmists. So after the Revolution.

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Speaker 1: Things were looking really good for the uss are to

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Speaker 1: get into space right until who comes onto this stage

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Speaker 1: but Stalin. Stalin comes on and sucks everything up. Motherfucket

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Speaker 1: Stalin shows up. He sucks everything up. He disappears all

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Speaker 1: of the major players into the whole thing because he

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Speaker 1: does not like how religious the whole thing is, and

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Speaker 1: he doesn't like the some portions of it are too anarchistic.

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Speaker 1: Space communism aborted by Stalin. He also shuts down research

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Speaker 1: into computer because he saw them as an evil Western

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Speaker 1: capitalist plot undermine workers rights, even though the first computer

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Speaker 1: able to solve differential equations in the world was a

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Speaker 1: Soviet invention in nineteen thirty six. It was called the

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Speaker 1: Water Integrator, and it stores numbers by different quantities of water,

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Speaker 1: which fucking rules. Yeah, I've never even heard of this.

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Speaker 1: I had neither. I really want to see one. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty three, Stalin did the single best thing

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Speaker 1: he ever did for the world. He fucking died. Not

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Speaker 1: a big Stalin fan here. Nineteen fifty seven, Russian scientists

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Speaker 1: get Sputnik one into orbit, the first artificial satellite in

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Speaker 1: Earth orbit by anyone in the world. It's only after

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Speaker 1: a month of design and construction. Basically, they hit the

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Speaker 1: ground running as soon as they get out of Stalin jail.

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Speaker 1: Sputnik one hangs out doing its thing for three weeks

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Speaker 1: until it's batteries run out, and then a couple of

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Speaker 1: months later it burns up on re entry. And this

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Speaker 1: not the fact that it burns out on re entry,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that they launched it freaks the US

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Speaker 1: out entirely and triggers this base race which the U.

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Speaker 1: S s R continues to beat the ship out of

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Speaker 1: the US in. On April twelve one, the first human

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Speaker 1: gets into space, Uriga Garin, who's a Russian cosmonaut because

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Speaker 1: they called there's cosmonauts in the US called There's astronauts.

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Speaker 1: Yuri goes up on Volstock one, and the main designer

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Speaker 1: for both of these things, Buttnick and vol Stock was

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Speaker 1: Sergey Pevlovich or oliv. I really am good at Russian.

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Speaker 1: That's my second. I'm not good at Russian. He's a cosmist.

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Speaker 1: Sergey is, or at least he's heavily influenced by the cosmos.

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Speaker 1: He writes books about the cosmis and shipped to interact

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Speaker 1: with their theories. I think he's a cosmist. He spent

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Speaker 1: six years in prison thanks to Stalin and his fucked

401
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Speaker 1: up paranoia before he gets out and wins the space race.

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Speaker 1: And this is he sends the first dog, the first man,

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Speaker 1: the first woman, and the first spacewalker into space. His

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Speaker 1: rockets photographed the dark side of the moon. He never

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Speaker 1: loses anyone on any flight during his direction. And unsurprisingly,

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Speaker 1: actually this is gonna shock you. He didn't trust his

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Speaker 1: government very much. He had lost all of his teeth

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Speaker 1: while he was in prison for some of his teeth

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Speaker 1: because of scurvy, so he doesn't trust his government very much.

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Speaker 1: Apparently his favorite expression was this is a really catchy expression.

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Speaker 1: We are all going to be shots and there will

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Speaker 1: be no obituary. It's just like catchphrase. You know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I get it, but grim well, death is

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Speaker 1: aesthetically ugly. If you didn't know, yeah, totally, but you

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Speaker 1: know it isn't aesthetically ugly. Is a good comb, a solid,

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Speaker 1: reliable comb. You can get a lot done with it. Then,

417
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Speaker 1: not any particular brand, just that a really good comb.

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Speaker 1: As well as all of the sponsors of today's show

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Speaker 1: besides Combs, here's some ads and we are bad and

420
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Speaker 1: we're talking about how we're all going to be shot

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Speaker 1: and there will be no obituary if we live in Sofia, Russia.

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Speaker 1: And I think, I think that this attitude of him

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Speaker 1: really underlines this thing again to keep hitting my same

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Speaker 1: themes over and over again, and that these scientists are

425
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,719
Speaker 1: scientists first and foremost, and they interact with bureaucracy as

426
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: best as they can to facilitate the science. And this

427
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,239
Speaker 1: is a lot of bad effects. But I don't know,

428
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 1: I it makes sense to me. I can kind of

429
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 1: understand this guy being like, well, I guess I'm really

430
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: interested in sending ship to space, so I'm going to

431
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: work with even the people who just let me out

432
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: of jail. I don't know, Yeah, it makes sense to me.

433
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: And it's like, like, if you're interested in space, there

434
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: really is only one game in town. It's not like

435
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 1: you can start your own little like indie space startup.

436
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, I mean I wish, but then you have

437
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: to be elon Musk and do other evil ship on

438
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: a completely different other evil access. So so one of

439
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: the reasons that the Soviets are ahead of the US,

440
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: I mean, one day they start first, right, and they've

441
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: been planning for it for years because they practically religiously

442
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: obsessed with it the Cosmos. At least that's part of

443
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 1: their three part program, and the other is kind of ironically.

444
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: They had an advantage in that they hadn't gotten as

445
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: a head in technology. They weren't miniaturizing their technology. We

446
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: were using we the US was using transistors, and the

447
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: USSR was still using vacuum tubes. So they just made

448
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: everything like fucking giant and brutal. On Soviet NASA's Mercury

449
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: spacecraft was like a tiny floating coffin. The Soviet voss

450
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: stock was a cannonball filled with padding, and NASA went

451
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: for careful water landings. The USSR was like, I'll just

452
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: get the funk out of a parachute before it hits

453
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: the ground, all right, um, get the funk out of

454
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: their good luck goes O't go, what are you an idiot?

455
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: Then get the ground like that's all. They gave him

456
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: a good life? Yeah, and actually it actually they gave

457
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: Although they were the first to start sending engineers instead

458
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: of just pilots up into space. At the very first

459
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: people they were sending up, they were like, you don't

460
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: have any control over this thing. You just you're just there.

461
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: You're just there. You have some basic stuff, whereas the

462
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: U S Space program, the astronauts had a lot more control,

463
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: a lot more the ability to understand what was happening

464
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: and fixed problems. But yeah, so this sets them up

465
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: for quick victories, but it makes a complex operation like

466
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: landing on the Moon much harder, and so they they

467
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: do later keep trying and failing too. They managed to

468
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: hit the moon a lot, but they don't manage to

469
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: soft land on the Moon very well. So, but the

470
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: Soviets get women into space first. The US was poised

471
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: to get women into space first. The U S had

472
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: private screenings for potential women astronauts starting in nine It

473
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: was financed by a wealthy woman aviator, and in the

474
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: end they picked thirteen women who passed all the same

475
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: tests as male astronauts. Decades later, they were dubbed the

476
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,959
Speaker 1: Mercury thirteen, which wasn't their name at the time, as

477
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: a reference to the Mercury Seven, which is the seven

478
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: man astronauts that were picked. An aviator named Jerry Cobb

479
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: was lead among these women, and she had already set

480
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: in her twenties, she had set three aviation records, like

481
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: not just for like a woman aviator, but for any aviator.

482
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: But then in nineteen sixty two there was a House

483
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: committee hearing on gender discrimination in the space race. Jerry

484
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: Cobb and others testified basically it was discrimination to not

485
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: let them go up into space just because they were women.

486
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: They passed all the same tests as the male astronauts.

487
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: That seems pretty cut and dry, right, do you think

488
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: they're gonna win? I don't know. Well, guess who testifies

489
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: against them. But the first two American men to go

490
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: up in orbit, including John Glenn, who was painted as

491
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: this trust women anti racist in the fucking movie Hidden Figures.

492
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: Are you fucking kidding? I Am not kidding. Okay, wait,

493
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: how the hell do we let people like this be

494
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: like rebranded as like heroic and like anti racist feminist?

495
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: Like what they they only read the fucking headline. They

496
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: don't read the whole story. Yeah yeah, his quote to

497
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: the committee. I think this gets back to the where

498
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: social order is organized. Really, it is just a fact

499
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: the men go off and fight wars and fly the

500
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: airplanes and come back and help design and build and

501
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: test them. The fact that women are not in this

502
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: field is a fact of our social order, which what

503
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: is true but only in a bad way. Yeah, and

504
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: like to say that and be like and like what

505
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: the unset thing is like that that that and we

506
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: need to uphold that norm Yeah, totally he did. Apparently

507
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: he had it like he had his like maybe I

508
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: shouldn't be this way moment when um, oh, I don't

509
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: remember her name, but a woman died in the Challenger

510
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: explosion and oh he eulogized her and did not say like, well,

511
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: it shouldn't have been there in the first place, and

512
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: I rite, you know, um, I think he like twenty

513
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: years later or whatever kind of like came around. But

514
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: but first he argued. Part of their defense about why

515
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: women shouldn't get to fly in space is that in

516
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: order to be an astronaut you had to be a

517
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 1: test pilot in the Air Force, and women weren't allowed

518
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: to be test pilots. So so sorry, sorry, ladies, get

519
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: out of space because it's it's not us, it's this

520
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: other institution that's preventing you. Post other rule. We would

521
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: we would change it if it were up to us,

522
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: but it's just the social owner, am I right? Um? God? Anyway,

523
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: this delays women from going to space for decades, so

524
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: that the Soviets are always looking for propagandic coup over

525
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: the US, and they really like to prove how more

526
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: progressive they are, so they send the first woman into space,

527
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: Valentina Tereshkova on June. Most of the Soviets involved in

528
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: the space race that I found, we're just scientists who

529
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: happened to do their work in the USSR. Not Valentina.

530
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: She's a patriot in a communist well, she's actually still alive,

531
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: and she's still a patriot. She's not technically a communist anymore.

532
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: She's born in seven and shortly thereafter her father was killed.

533
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: And that dumb thing where the Soviets tried to invade

534
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: Finland because and this thing that will sound familiar to nobody,

535
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: the Winter War where the Soviets invaded Finland was because

536
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: they decided that the Finnish border was too close to

537
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: one of their cities, so it was a threat, and

538
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: so they had to move the border, so they invaded Finland. Anyway,

539
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: her dad died doing that, and I'm not sorry. Valentina

540
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: finished the school, she joins the Communist party. She gets

541
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: to work at a textile factory, and then she becomes

542
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: a competitive parachutist, which is objectively cool. I didn't even

543
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: imagine competitive parachuting, and I think of parachuting is a

544
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: thing you do when you turn forty and you're trying

545
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: to find meaning in life, or your George w Bush

546
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: doing it on your birthday. Right. No, Apparently Sophie is

547
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: wagging her finger correct to say yes um. And it

548
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: was this activity that got her noticed, and soon enough

549
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: she ends up a cosmonaut. She's the first woman in space,

550
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: and to this day she's the only woman who's been

551
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 1: to space on a solo trip. And there was this

552
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: tradition among cosmonauts on the way to the launch pad

553
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: where they needed to take one last piss before they

554
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: got into the shuttle, so they would pee on the

555
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: tire of the bus that takes them out. I mean,

556
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: it's the most boy thing in the world, right It's

557
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: I say this as someone who loves to camp and

558
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: like it takes a lot of pleasure and peeing outside gross.

559
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: Valentina did not break this tradition, and she too peed

560
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: on the which is kind of like, I kind of

561
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: like that energy, though, I kind of like the all

562
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: right bucket. She goes up to space. She orbits forty

563
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: eight times in a single flight, really just trying to

564
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: flex on the US. She logs more flight time in

565
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: that than all American astronauts prior to that combined. She

566
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: takes photos of the atmosphere that are used to analyze

567
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: the atmosphere, and then the way that she was particularly

568
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: nauseous during her her flight was like used to study

569
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: the effects of space on on the human And since

570
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: her flight capsule was basically a cannonball, it comes down

571
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: crashing into the Earth. She injects four kilometers above the

572
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: ground and parachutes down, which is the skill that got

573
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: her the job, because they're like, look, all you gotta

574
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: do is get shot into space and parachute at the end. Right.

575
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: That's like and she's like an expert competitive parachuter. So

576
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: she's gotten like the job, she's got down, Yeah exactly.

577
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: I mean I think she also like trained and shipped

578
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: to be a cosmonaut, but like, but this is why

579
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: she got picked. And then she fights strong winds on

580
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: her descent, she bruises but not breaks her nose on

581
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: the landing, and then she has some dinner with local villagers,

582
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: and then she goes home a hero, and she wanted

583
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: to keep going to space, but she was too valuable

584
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: as a propaganda hero, and against her wishes, she was

585
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: put in charge of the Committee for Soviet Women in

586
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: because of the the USSR was a dictatorship and she didn't

587
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: get to choose what she did. She dives into feminist

588
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: socialist politics. She stays a communist for a while after

589
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: the collapse of the USSR, and now she's a politician

590
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: with the United Russia Party, which is basically the let

591
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: Putin do whatever he wants party. She tried to remove

592
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: term limits for Putin, um she sort of succeeded. Putin

593
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: now has a two term limit, but they reset them,

594
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: so Putin has two more terms or whatever, like a

595
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: decade left. She's not my hero, That's what I'm trying

596
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: to say. Yeah, I mean, it's like a classic story

597
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: of like jumping out of planes and pissing on wheels

598
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: is cool, but then it's like, oh, yeah, you did

599
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: all this other stuff for like a fucked up fascist state.

600
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: A good job, I guess. One time, she meets Jerry Cobb,

601
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: the American woman who should have preceded her and been

602
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: the first woman into space, and she actually said, well,

603
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: I idolized you before she became a cosmonaut, and she said, quote,

604
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: we always figured you would be the first. What happened?

605
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: And then to the media she said, they the American

606
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: leaders shout at every turn about their democracy and at

607
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: the same time they announced they will not let a

608
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: woman into space. This is open inequality. So she knows

609
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: what the funk is happening. She knows her role both

610
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: as a propagandist, but she's also telling the truth. You know,

611
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: they're both hypocrites, both not the people but the governments. Incidentally,

612
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: Jerry Cobb, who should have been the first woman in

613
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: space and should have gotten to go to space with

614
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: the US, she gets sucked over out of it more

615
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: than once because later that asshole John Glenn, he gets

616
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: sent to spaces seventy seven year old, and he claims

617
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: that he wants to do it so they could test

618
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: the effects of space on aging. So they need to

619
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: send an old person. But it's like really openly, just

620
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: like a political favor, and he wants to go to

621
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: space again. So Jerry Cobb is like, oh, yeah, you

622
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: probably need to test that on a woman too. Me

623
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: I never got to go to fucking space. NASA's like, sorry, babe,

624
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: she never got to go to space. That's so fucked up.

625
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: I know this is really making me hate John Glenn.

626
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: I feel is bad, but I don't, you know. I'm like,

627
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's more to the story than the these

628
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: sides of him, but I don't know. I don't know.

629
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that he maybe renounced these vibes

630
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: at some point in his life. Oh my god, this

631
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: is reminding me so much. Did you ever hear that

632
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 1: anecdote that Sally Ride when she went to space, they

633
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: gave her she was gonna be there for a week,

634
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: and they gave her like a hundred tampons, and they

635
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: were like this be enough, like the greatest scientific minds,

636
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: and also will this be enough? I love that, Yeah,

637
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: I think it. The whole thing is like all the

638
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: different ways that like these these institutions and individuals coalesced

639
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: to make it be like a women don't belong in space,

640
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: Like did you go up to space? We have no

641
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: idea how to keep how to make you feel supported,

642
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: like you had no business up there in the first place.

643
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: It is wild, totally and then the like more recently

644
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: when they're like planning the Mars mission and they're like, well,

645
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: we should send for women so that they don't have

646
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: sex and therefore there's no like weird feelings. Yeah, women

647
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: never have sex with each other. No, definitely, not not

648
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: in zero G either. Yeah. I didn't know Sally Ride

649
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: about the tampon thing. I'd heard that. I think I

650
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: think it was don't quote me on that, but I

651
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: think it was. It definitely was a hundred tampons, So

652
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: that is actually correct. Yeah, there's like songs about it.

653
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: It's it's ridiculous. I've seen a song on I've seen

654
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: this song like one h tampon, yes, and will that

655
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: be enough? Yeah, these are the people who yeah, I

656
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: can play Oh my gosh. Cool. Yeah. So Sally Ride

657
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: actually is next to my script because she doesn't get

658
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: to go to spacete. She's the third woman in space.

659
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: And I didn't know this until recently, and I think

660
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: no one most people didn't. It came out more recently

661
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: she's the first confirmed gay person in space. After she died,

662
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: her obituary casually mentioned her partner of twenty seven years.

663
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: I did not know she was gay. No, she apparently,

664
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: according to her sister, who's more publicly out, she hadn't

665
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: hit in her relationship, but she hadn't made it public either,

666
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 1: and just basically been like, that's not what And also

667
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: I think there was a lot of like, what you

668
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: funk up your career if you told anyone right now

669
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: you know? Yeah. So, but if if those four women

670
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: go to Mars, none of them will be gay. Ye,

671
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: No lesbian sex happening in space, don't worry. Definitely not.

672
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: So this brings us the first black person in space.

673
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,479
Speaker 1: And the first thing I did was Google first Black

674
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: person in space because I was not totally sure, and

675
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: I got the wrong answer at the top of the

676
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: Google screen, because if you type into google first Black

677
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: person in space, you get little automatic answer at the

678
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: top that says Gan S. Blueford, who went to space

679
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: on the third Challenger mission. And this guy is a

680
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: mean he's a talented guy. He's still alive. He has

681
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: medals after medals from the Air Force, and he's written

682
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: a ton of papers about fluid dynamics and ship like that.

683
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: But he wasn't the first black person in space. He

684
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: was the first Black American in space. And it comes

685
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: up time and time again, right that you look something

686
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: up and it's like the first person to do this thing,

687
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: and it usually means the first Western person or the

688
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: first white person, or the first in this case like

689
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, non Soviet block person or whatever. But the

690
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: first black person in space was also the first Latin

691
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: American person in space and the first Cuban in space.

692
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: And he wasn't an astronaut. He was a cosmonaut. Cuban cosmonaut.

693
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: Arnaldo to Myo Mendez went to space in nineteen eighty

694
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: for a week as part of the USSRS inter Cosmos program,

695
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: which was a program by which the USSRS allies were

696
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: given access to space for research and honestly just for

697
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: cloud like every country wants to get to have gone

698
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 1: to space, right, And they even let non allied Western

699
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: power was used Intracosmos sometimes, which was like an extra

700
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: flex over the US because the US is like waist

701
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: injier about who they'll send to space. And Arnaldo Tamio

702
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: Mendez was born January two in the Guantanamo Province of Cuba.

703
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: He never knew his father. His mother was dirt poor

704
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 1: and died of tuberculosis when Ronaldo was eight months old.

705
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: He was raised the age of nine by his grandmother,

706
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: who also took in the children of another one of

707
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: her dead children. This is not a very nice time

708
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,720
Speaker 1: to be poor in Cuba. Before communism, it was pretty

709
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: fucking bad. Eventually, when he was nine, his uncle, who

710
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: was a mechanic, took him in and as a young kid,

711
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: Arnaldo started taking every job he could, as a shoe shine,

712
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: a vegetable peddler, a milk delivery boy. By the time

713
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: he used thirteen, he found himself an apprentice carpenter, but

714
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: he didn't drop out of school. In the background of

715
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: all this, when Arnaldo was ten or so, the US

716
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: installed a dictator in Cuba named Batista. Fidel Castro and

717
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: se Guvara and a ton of other people had this

718
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: whole revolution thing. It took like five years nifty nine

719
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: they win. Batista did the classic dictator thing where he

720
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: steals hundreds of millions of dollars and then fus off

721
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 1: out of the country, in this case to Portugal, and Arnaldo, seventeen,

722
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: was one of the thousands who stormed through the streets

723
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: and joy to see their military dictatorship overthrown. He joins

724
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: the military, becomes an aviation technician, and soon he adds

725
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: off to the Soviet Union learning how to fix and

726
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: fly fighter jets, and then he flies twenty reconnaissance missions

727
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: during the Cuban Missile Crisis of nineteen sixty two. The

728
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: Cuban Missile crisis was when, oh, crap, Cuba has nukes now,

729
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: which happened when the USSR gave their buds some nukes,

730
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: which they did because the US had stationed nukes pointing

731
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 1: at the USSR in Italy and Turkey, and the US

732
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: has also just tried to invade Cuba and failed in

733
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: the Bay of Pigs invasion. So the U S is like, oh, no,

734
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: Cuba suddenly has nukes. I mean, there's a reason that

735
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 1: Cuba suddenly had nukes. The crisis ends when the US

736
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: agrees not to invade Cuba anymore and to withdraw its

737
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: nukes from Turkey, and the USSR agrees to withdraw its

738
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: nukes from Cuba. So anyway, Arnaldo flew a bunch in

739
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: the Cuban Air Force during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and

740
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: as well as he started teaching Cuban aviators in nineteen

741
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: sixty seven, he spent two years fighting in Vietnam, which was,

742
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: you know, on the opposite side of the conflict as

743
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: the US, which is interesting because he was on the

744
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: opposite side of the same war flying missions as the US,

745
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: as first black astronaut. And I've I've read mixed reports

746
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: about exactly what Cuba got up to in Vietnam. They

747
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: weren't like a major presence in the war, but if

748
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: nothing else, they provided limited air support for the North Vietnamese.

749
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: The USSR wanted to send some foreign cosmonauts up into space,

750
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: started looking for a Cuban came down to Arnaldo, who

751
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: was black, and Jose R. Mondo Lopez Falcon, who wasn't black,

752
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: and it's possible after winning it down to two people,

753
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: Castro picked Arnaldo basically as a fuck you to the

754
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: US to point out to make fun of the US

755
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: for its awful race relations. Right, but Cuba was also

756
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: full of anti black racism at that time. More than

757
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: half of its population was black. Harold Germaine Star, writing

758
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: in the Washington Post in made the case that Moscow

759
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: and Havana rolled out the red carpet for Lanks and

760
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: Hues and Sada Shakur, but non exceptional black people are

761
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: regularly discriminated against, jail disproportionate and non black residents and

762
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,439
Speaker 1: just generally mistreated. Yeah, I mean the anti black it's

763
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: so interesting and I love how you've put this. The

764
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: anti blackness in Cuba is a documented thing, but yet

765
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 1: they do like welcome I guess quote exceptional black folks.

766
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting to me that Cuba would be

767
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: trying to sort of get one over on the US

768
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: by being like, oh, look how we treat our black folks.

769
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: We spend send them to space, while while like totally

770
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: ignoring the reality that is anti blackness in their own country.

771
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: It is like so interesting and so layered and so

772
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 1: complex and nuance, and then like it's I guess I'm

773
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: happy to hear you talk about it in this way

774
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: because so many people talking about it really don't have

775
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: the range to like really parse the like the seven

776
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 1: layer castle role that is anti blackness globally. I guess

777
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: I'll say, yeah, yeah, No. I spent a while trying

778
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 1: to be like, oh my god, and I just kept going,

779
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: you're right, that's it's so many layers as it goes

780
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: down and down, and with anti blackness all the way down,

781
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: it's really fucking pressing. It's anti blackness the whole way

782
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: to help. So let's talk about the USSR santi black

783
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: racism for a second. In the nineteen sixties, the USSR

784
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: had its own black rights demonstrations because African students, especially

785
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: from Ghana, had been moving to the country for studies.

786
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: And then an African man named Edmund A sorrow Atto

787
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: was found dead in nineteen sixty three and students say

788
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 1: that he was killed for sleeping with a white woman,

789
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: and they had a demonstration about it that may or

790
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: may not have been a riot. One sign read another Alabama,

791
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: which was, you know, a clear reference to the widespread

792
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: anti black racism and US basically saying it should have

793
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: been better here. And the Soviet government, surprise, surprise, claimed

794
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: it was all a propaganda stunts set up by the

795
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: Western powers, and we're like, oh, the guy just froze

796
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: to death or whatever, you know. And there's only a

797
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: hun fifty seven people at this protest, which makes it

798
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: seem sort of like not a big deal. But it's

799
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: the first demonstration of on Red Square since the nineteen twenties.

800
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: Because uss are not really big on allowing freedom political

801
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 1: speech and assembly, and people fucking did it anyway, Um,

802
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: because they're fucking mad for whatever reason, they pick Arnaldo,

803
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: and he's a perfectly good, you know, cosmonaut choice. He's

804
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: a he's a great pilot, he's a perfect choice to

805
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: represent Cuba. On September eighteenth, nineteen eighty, Arnaldo becomes the

806
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: first black person in space, something that the US didn't

807
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: succeed at until he spent He spends more than a

808
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: week on the Soviet Space station conducting agricultural experiments designed

809
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: by Cuban scientists so that Cuba can advance some of

810
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: its its science. But he wasn't treated as the first

811
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: black person in space right away. He definitely was the

812
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: first black person in space, but no one was making

813
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: a big deal out of his blackness. He was the

814
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: first Cuban in space and the first Latin American in space,

815
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: and it wasn't until the US sent up their black

816
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: Vietnam vet Gian Blueford that attention was really drawn to

817
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: the fact that Cuba did at first. Because everything is

818
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of bullshit propaganda wars that use marginalized people

819
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: as ammunition. Yeah, I mean, it's so much like the

820
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: episode that we just did about that, you know, hidden

821
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: figures and marginalized people in computing. It's like it is,

822
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it must have been like to

823
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: be Like, on the one hand, I am happy that

824
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: I get to to, you know, break this barrier and

825
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: do this milestone. But on the other hand, they're kind

826
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: of using me because they're trying to make a political

827
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: point or like use me at like you know what

828
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: I mean. Like, I can only imagine what that must

829
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: have been like to actually know all of these things

830
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: and feel all of these things, but still be somebody

831
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: who was like breaking barriers and making history in these ways. Yeah, totally.

832
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: I would definitely still be like, no fucking send me

833
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: to space and in his shoes, you know. Not if

834
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: given the chance, would you go to some I think

835
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: I would. I would have to because I refuse to

836
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: let fear control my life. But oh my god, does

837
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: that sound anxious? I would What I would need to

838
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: do not in addition to like astronauto cosmonaut training, I

839
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: would need to like really figure out a regiment of

840
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: anti anxiety drugs. Yeah, I'm sure it gets. I'm sure

841
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: it gets like anxiety provoking up there like tight spaces.

842
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: It's like probably weird, like like probably weird sounds. I

843
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: would go on a heartbeat, no question in my mind,

844
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: I would totally go cool. Sophie, would you go No,

845
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: we have the full range of choices. You're not even curious,

846
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: what's what's going on up there? Nope, You're like, I

847
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: don't it doesn't concern me. I'm gonna mind my business

848
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: down here on Earth's going to stay down here with

849
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: my hundred tam bonds and all the day. They probably like,

850
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: send me up and they'd be like trans woman woman, Okay,

851
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 1: hundred bonds. No, no, no, you two hundred two hundred.

852
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: I don't even know as I'm like on drugs, but

853
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: no one else you can eat on drugs. Potatoes absolutely

854
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 1: sponsored today's podcast. Uh, here's some advertising that supports are

855
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: complicity in capitalism and we are back and we're all

856
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: jealous of Soaphy, who's dinner arrived while we were just potatoes.

857
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Well, there's other wholesome foods, I'm sure so.

858
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: At the top of this episode, the first part of

859
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: this episode that you heard on Monday today is Wednesday,

860
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: because obviously you're listening to this to day came out.

861
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: It could be any day. I don't know what day

862
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: it is when you're listening to this. I promised you

863
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: a bisexual rocket scientist. And so for the last story

864
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: that I'm going to talk about today, I'm going to

865
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: tell you about Jack Parsons and the suicide squad. Jack Parsons,

866
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: who was actually his birth name is Marvel, but he

867
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: didn't like his dad very much, so he didn't He

868
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: didn't keep his dad's name Marvel, although Marvel Parsons would

869
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: have also been a really good name. Jack Parsons, I

870
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: like it. He's one of the people who founded JPL,

871
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: the Jet Propulsion Laboratory that later became part of NASA,

872
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: the place that started the trend of hiring women as

873
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: computers in aerospace field. And he designed a ton of

874
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: rocket engines. He made advancements in solid and liquid fuel.

875
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: That Nazi guy who led the space race, Verna von Braun.

876
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: One time he got called the father of rocket science,

877
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: and he was like, no, no, no, that's Jack Parsons.

878
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: And I can't tell you that Jack Parsons was a

879
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: good person, but I can tell you that he is

880
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: fucking interesting. Jack Parsons was this rich white kid from

881
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: Pasadena born in nineteen fourteen. He'd read a on of

882
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: science fiction and he thought rockets were cool. He got

883
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: picked on in school for being a rich, effeminate kid,

884
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 1: and he spent his afternoons with his like one friend

885
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: and they would go blow shut up in the go

886
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: out in the woods and blow shut up, sucking homemade

887
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: gun patterns. Probably not woods. I assume it's like desert

888
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: or something. I don't know, the West coast. He reads

889
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: a ton of occult of ship Pasadena, Pasadena, Florida. Where

890
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: is it west? Is it Pasadena, California? Wait, where's Pasadena?

891
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: Because there's Pasadena, California. Or is it Pasadena somewhere else?

892
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: Because Pasadena, California. We don't upwoods there. Yeah, Okay, Okay,

893
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: I was right, Okay, So it's not the woods. He's

894
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: blowing it up in going outside, blowing shut up whatever.

895
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 1: Pasadena looks like. I don't know where Pasadena is. Clearly

896
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: a most well traveled person. You can trust me, Okay.

897
00:48:54,000 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: So his interests in classic go bisexual boy mo he uh.

898
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: He blows stuff up with homemade gunpowder. He figuring out

899
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:05,959
Speaker 1: how to make his own gunpowder, and then he reads

900
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: a cult of stuff and he tries to summon the

901
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: devil in his bedroom, but he chickens out and he

902
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: doesn't finish the ritual. He goes to college, he starts

903
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: working on rocket ship in the weekends. He starts corresponding

904
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: with rocket scientists all over the world, including von Brown

905
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: and the Russian cosmists. Like before the warship came up,

906
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: all of the U. S scientists, German scientists, Russian scientists,

907
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: they're all buds and comparing notes when he's in college.

908
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: His crew in school got called the suicide Squad because

909
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: they're reckless with their bomb experiments, and a bunch of

910
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: the major players in rocket science in the US and

911
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: China are involved in the suicide Squad. Wait, I haven't

912
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: really possibly silly question, Please give me if this is

913
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: the stupidest question, is that where the name from? Like

914
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: the comic book slash movie the Suicide Squad? Is that

915
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: where the name comes from? I don't know. I was

916
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: thinking about that because this is the second thing like

917
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: a suicide squad I've run across in UM In the

918
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: I did an episode on gay resistance to Fascism, and

919
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 1: I found out that gay Nazis were put into a suice.

920
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: It wasn't. I don't know if it's called a suicide squad,

921
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: but they were put into a suicide squad where they

922
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: were like, instead of going to jail, they got put

923
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: in with all of like the worst Nazis off to

924
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: go do like but it was like an S S

925
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: squad um And so I was like reading that, and

926
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: I was like, WHOA, is this where suicide squad got

927
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: their things from? Like gay fucking Nazis? And now I'm

928
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,720
Speaker 1: reading this and I'm like, maybe this is where suicide

929
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: squad got its name from. I don't know. Maybe it's

930
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: just like a thing that people called idiots who kept

931
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: trying to blow themselves up. Maybe it shows up all

932
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: throughout history. This is interesting. No, I get really excited

933
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: about these weird threads that I don't I haven't figured

934
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: out how to untangle yet. So he drops out of

935
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: school because he doesn't have enough money to go to school.

936
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: I think maybe because his dad had sucked off. I'm

937
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: not entirely sure why this financial situation changed so much.

938
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: But he never gets a degree, and he turns down

939
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,439
Speaker 1: honorary degrees later, which is even more of a flex

940
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: in a way. Although I will also say the fact

941
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 1: that it's like the white kid turning down all these

942
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: degrees as compared to like the black women who are like, like,

943
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: there's a whole thing that I didn't really get into

944
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,240
Speaker 1: about HBUs historically black universities and like how much work

945
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: they did to help uh black folks get ahead, and like,

946
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: so I'm not trying to like whenever I'm like on

947
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: this maverick named Marvel who dropped out of Oh my God,

948
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: the fact his name was Marvel and suicide Squad Marvel

949
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: or d C. I think it's Marvel, but don't quote

950
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: me on that. Um anyway, that was a d h

951
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: D spin off from what I was trying to talk about.

952
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think you're right. Like, I

953
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: love that you've added that that, Like, it's it's really

954
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: easy to be a white kid from Pasadena who turned

955
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: down an honorary degree. Meanwhile, all of these black women

956
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: who were like working their ass off from any recognition

957
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: and getting none of it probably would have like been

958
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: really honored by a degree considering the role that like

959
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: HBCUs played and things were that black folks were able

960
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: to get educated. You know, it makes so much sense. Yeah,

961
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 1: I also want everyone to know that we are safe.

962
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: Suicide Squad is d C comics. Okay, too weird, too

963
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: weird everyone, all right, So he drops out of college.

964
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: He's still blowing ship up. He actually, you know, he

965
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: starts forming these rocket scientist companies and ship, and then

966
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: he starts hanging out with the communists and gets really

967
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: into Marxism. But he won't join the Communist Party because

968
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: he's too anti authoritarian, which makes me like him. But

969
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: then he discovers something that he likes even more than

970
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: like radical leftist anti authoritarian politics, occultism in the in

971
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, he becomes a Thelamite, which is this

972
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: religion started by Alistair Crowley that's all into magic and ship.

973
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: And he starts talking to how magic is just quantum

974
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,399
Speaker 1: mechanics because he's brillianto science and all this this other

975
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: ship and so yeah, he's advancing the field of rocket

976
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: scientists by leaps and bounds while smoking weed with his

977
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: friends and chanting to him to pan during rocket tests.

978
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: This is like, I'm having trouble like wrapping my brain

979
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: around this the occult Like it's just yeah, this is

980
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: like in my and when I was like in high

981
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: school listening to Pink Floyd. This is like what my

982
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: mom would be like, Oh, you better watch out or

983
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna end up trying to go into space and

984
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: being into the occult. Watch out totally. He talks throughout

985
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: his life. He's he sort of like has a reputation

986
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: as a womanizer that was actually part of a polyamorous culture.

987
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: I'll get into a little bit, but he also talks

988
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 1: about his latent homosexuality and in his his FBI file,

989
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: which we'll get to, he's called bisexual. He liked to

990
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: answer the door with a snake around his neck. His

991
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 1: mailbox was a mannequin holding a bucket that said residents

992
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: across the bucket. UM. I kind of like, I know,

993
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: I kind of like this guy. When the US enters

994
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 1: World War Two, he and his leftist rocket scientist friends,

995
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: they're like, we we need to help out with the

996
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: war effort, and it was a moral duty from from

997
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: their point of view. They had to stop the Nazis.

998
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: So him and all his friends start very intentionally working

999
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: on developing a lot of the rocketry that people used

1000
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: to fight the Nazis. He also leaves his wife Helen

1001
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: for her seventeen year old sister Sarah. But then Helen

1002
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: falls in love with Jack's best friend, and then the

1003
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 1: couples move in together into a communis messy, very messy,

1004
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: but they stay friends and the house is called the

1005
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 1: parsonage because it's I think it's because it's his fucking

1006
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: money paid for it do because it's like and then Sarah, oh,

1007
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: Sarah gard leaves them for fucking l Ron Hubbard. Are

1008
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:53,720
Speaker 1: you oh my fucking god. Honestly, of course of course

1009
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: she does. Of course she's like, what else could she do? Like, okay,

1010
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: so anyway, so in a similar way, we're okay, we can,

1011
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: we can, we can. He's really in all this occultis

1012
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: ship too, before he starts his own religion to fucking

1013
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: milk everyone out of their money. Um, and yeah, the

1014
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 1: weird fucking group of people. Okay, I'm gonna need a

1015
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: nap after this. So okay. So in a similar way

1016
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: that Stalin had gotten all paranoid and imprisoned and oppressed

1017
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: all of their best scientists, and the UK fucked over

1018
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: Alan turing Well. The House of on American Activities has

1019
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: some words to say for Jack Parsons, who has advanced

1020
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: like like his ideas of rocket fuel are what gets

1021
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,760
Speaker 1: us to the moon. Like, he absolutely does a fucking

1022
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 1: ton of important stuff right, And then the House of

1023
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: an American Activities is like, now you're fucking communist, and

1024
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: he's like, actually, I'm not a communist. I I'm anti

1025
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: authoritarian and I'm Athelamite, and so I believe in the

1026
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: power of the individual. And they're like, we don't care,

1027
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: you're fucking communist. They revoke his security clearance. He's not

1028
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: able to get any work in the field, because how

1029
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: are you going to be a missile designer if you

1030
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: can't work for the government, And his life starts is

1031
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: just falling apart. In NIF two, he moves to Mexico

1032
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: and he sets up an explosives factory, which I guess

1033
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,720
Speaker 1: is a thing one can choose to do when one's

1034
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,479
Speaker 1: life is falling apart. And then one day he's making

1035
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: some bombs for a film set, a Mexican film, and

1036
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: his trailer blows up and it kills him. And lots

1037
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: of people have lots of ideas about exactly what happened here,

1038
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: but it was probably an accident or suicide. He'd probably

1039
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: been high on morphine at the time. He died, but

1040
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: then other people are like, no, it was these people.

1041
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: His story is so much more complex than I'm getting

1042
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,879
Speaker 1: across because I only half understand it because it's so

1043
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: twisted and convoluted. But there's so many people who would

1044
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: have tried to kill him. So I don't know what

1045
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: happened to this guy, and everyone likes to argue about

1046
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 1: it because he's like, Okay, he probably dropped this container

1047
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: of this chemical, and then people like, no, he was

1048
00:56:58,200 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: very careful, and other people like, are you freaking kid?

1049
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: And he wasn't careful if you met this guy. But

1050
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: on the other hand, he'd been doing that since he

1051
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: was a little kid, So I don't know. Jack fucking Parsons,

1052
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 1: Then okay, don't with people, but one more thing, which

1053
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: actually involves a person, So I guess I lied when

1054
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: I said no more people. So for all the cold

1055
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: attached atheism that scientists supposedly known for, there's always this

1056
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: religious component, and I hadn't even realized that's so I

1057
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: started doing this research. You've got a Unitarian astronomer, You've

1058
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: got the cosmist who want to resurrect the dead. Katherine

1059
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: Johnson was a Presbyterian who sang in the choir is

1060
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: a member of her church for fifty years. Alan Turing

1061
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: he believed in fortune telling. A fortune teller told him

1062
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: when he was a little kid that he was going

1063
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: to be a genius. And supposedly the last time he

1064
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: had his fortune read, he came out really shook, and

1065
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: he didn't tell anyone what happened. Um never told anyone

1066
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: what he heard. And then of course there's Jack fucking Parsons,

1067
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: who Yeah, he's Jack fucking Parsons. He's singing to him

1068
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: to pan during rocket tests. But I want to talk

1069
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 1: about one more religion that's obsessed with space, Earth Seed,

1070
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: which is the fictional religion made up by maybe the

1071
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: most prescient science fiction author whoever lived, Octavia Butler. Yes, yes,

1072
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: this is your speaking of my language. I'm a big

1073
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: Butler fan. Let's do this. She's so freaking amazing. I'm

1074
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: this I'm not unfortunately good God, I actually probably need

1075
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: to do an episode on Butler's You absolutely should. I

1076
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: would definitely listen to that. Okay. So she wrote a

1077
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: book called The Parable the Sewer, which I think is

1078
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: the most Prussian science fiction book that's ever been written,

1079
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: at least in terms of our current disaster that we're

1080
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: all living through. And this is the book where the

1081
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: fictitious religion of earth Seed comes from. She describes a

1082
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 1: slow apocalypse that includes a right wing fanatic of a

1083
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 1: president who runs under the slogan make America Great Again.

1084
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: Sound familiar, and so the protagonists they make their way

1085
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: up to northern California. They set up a little apocalypse

1086
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: survival homestead, and they develop a religion based on basically

1087
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: two things. One God has changed, that we all have

1088
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: to learn to embrace and shape change and let change

1089
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: shape us. And too, basically that the stars are our destiny,

1090
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: that theoretically something like space exploration ought to be something

1091
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: that brings humanity together instead of dividing us. And I

1092
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: don't know, And I think that that's important to think

1093
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: about one because I fucking like it a lot, but

1094
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: too because the old way of doing space is dying

1095
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: right now, right like nations are no longer the primary

1096
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: drivers of space research. You have capitalism instead, which is

1097
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: maybe the only thing more dangerous than these nations states.

1098
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: And I propose that we're sort of crossroads. Either space

1099
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: gets explored and claimed by sucking corporations that I claim

1100
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: I would say it will not be named, but we

1101
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: clearly named them earlier. Or we get our ship together

1102
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: and do it like Butler told us, and do it

1103
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: for humanity. That like, you just blew my mind. I yeah,

1104
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: you just move my mind. I hadn't thought about it

1105
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: that way. First of all, I have to say, I'm

1106
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: so glad that you're referencing Butler, because in this moment,

1107
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: everybody is like, oh, hand its tale, handmade sale. No,

1108
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: it is sucking Butler, like, like that's the that's the

1109
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: text we should be at least the text that I

1110
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: think we should be like looking too. But honestly, the

1111
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 1: way that you put that is almost kind of hopeful

1112
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 1: that we have this. We're at at a crossroads where

1113
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: we can decide if you want the next generation of

1114
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: space exploration to belong to people like Elon Musk or

1115
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: something different, like is it is it? Like? Who is

1116
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: it for? What's who's going to define it? I think

1117
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 1: I think it's almost sort of hopeful the way that

1118
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: you put that. Thanks. I yeah, I I you know,

1119
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: it's like I I try for optimism sort of strategically

1120
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 1: because it's the only chance we have is to to

1121
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: act like we can win, you know, I don't know.

1122
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: And yeah, and that in that book Parallel Sower and

1123
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 1: thats sequel parable of the talents. It's the most hopeful

1124
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: apocalypse I've ever like apocalyptic book I've ever read, and

1125
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: that's one of the reason I love it so much.

1126
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: That's my episode on space and the exploration of it

1127
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: and rockets and computers. Do you have any any final

1128
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: final reflections or yeah? My final reflection is just that like,

1129
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: I can't I'm so surprised to find myself in this

1130
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: optimistic space where you know, it's kind of up to us, like, like,

1131
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: what's it gonna be? What are we going to decide

1132
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: we want? And you know, are we gonna treat We've

1133
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 1: kind of got a number on the on the world

1134
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: on on Earth. Are we going to let people who

1135
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: we know can't be trusted do the same thing to

1136
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: space or aren't we you know, it's just it's kind

1137
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: of up to us. I don't know, it is it's

1138
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 1: a hopeful apocalypse. I guess, as you said, than where

1139
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: did you have any plugbolspre us? Yeah, I love conversations

1140
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: about technology and all things nerdy, and so please come

1141
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: check out my podcast there are no girls on the Internet.

1142
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Bridget Marie DC

1143
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: are on Twitter at Bridget Marine Amazing and we'll be

1144
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: back next week, right, Margaret, Yay Soil the Heat, Death

1145
01:01:56,080 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: of the Universe. Where can people follow you? Margaret Well,

1146
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: if you want to see pictures of my dog or

1147
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: of a turtle that I saw today that was eating

1148
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: a mushroom, Yes, you can follow me on Instagram at

1149
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: Margaret kill Joy. And if you want to hear me

1150
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: complain about discourse while at participating in discourse, you can

1151
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at Magpie killed Joy. I do

1152
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: I really do? And uh Paul Bridget Margaret back next week, everyone,

1153
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did? Cool Stuff is a production of

1154
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, but more podcasts and cool Zone Media.

1155
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: Visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

1156
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1157
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.