Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.
Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we
Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for
Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store
Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L
Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. We
Speaker 1: are broadcasting live from Bloomberg's The Year Ahead Conference at
Speaker 1: Bloomberg headquarters in New York City. On the other side
Speaker 1: of the country is currently the l A Auto Show. Uh.
Speaker 1: And there is Volvo and they did not bring a
Speaker 1: car this year to the auto show to display. Hokan Samuelson,
Speaker 1: who is the chief executive officer of Volvo, joins us
Speaker 1: now from there. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: So why didn't you want to display a car and
Speaker 1: what does it mean to have a concept car? Uh? Okay,
Speaker 1: nice being with you. We really see that maybe the
Speaker 1: times when you show the car foot of the clothes
Speaker 1: in front of an audience, it feels a bit outdated,
Speaker 1: especially as the core of the future will have a
Speaker 1: lot more than just the hardware. So we decided, then
Speaker 1: let's focus on on those new customer experiences instead of
Speaker 1: the hardware and then maybe not deluse the message. Let's
Speaker 1: take the car out. So we have here one station
Speaker 1: we talked about in care importainment system of the future
Speaker 1: where we have a partnership with the Google bringing in
Speaker 1: the Android in the car. Another interesting example of a
Speaker 1: connectivity services with Amazon. We have people from Amazon. You're
Speaker 1: showing how you can get your Internet supply directly into
Speaker 1: your car because normally you're not that home when they
Speaker 1: come to deliver the stuff. So that's the practical solution
Speaker 1: also for our for our customers. So these are two
Speaker 1: examples of what the care of the future could could be.
Speaker 1: Besides and of course a nice car. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about the three sixty C This
Speaker 1: is the concept car that Lisa was referring to, and
Speaker 1: the venture that you have with Luminar, and how the
Speaker 1: technology that Luminar is pursuing with you is really going
Speaker 1: to change the in car experience. And I have a
Speaker 1: feeling that you'll even be able to have a glass
Speaker 1: of champagne while you're in the car and it won't
Speaker 1: it won't be a danger. Okay, it's a really good
Speaker 1: point because of course, to be able to enjoy any
Speaker 1: type of in car portayment or you need to have
Speaker 1: a car which of course could be driven safely automated.
Speaker 1: And that's where luminar comes in to the picture. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a very interesting start top that we have also
Speaker 1: on stand here, which is a long range high definition
Speaker 1: light art. So it's really as with the human the
Speaker 1: ability to see. It's crucial for a stage drive, and
Speaker 1: I mean the computer also needs a better revision. It
Speaker 1: has cameras, radars, but also light darts. And then the
Speaker 1: lider is especially important, and the gluminar is taking a
Speaker 1: step forward here of having a long range, high definition lider. Okay,
Speaker 1: I have to think, you know, you're talking about the
Speaker 1: experience and there seems to be a d emphasis of
Speaker 1: actually purchasing the vehicle, and perhaps this is what's behind
Speaker 1: General Motors in the recent announcement they came out with
Speaker 1: to cut a huge proportion of their staff in response
Speaker 1: to changes in automation and electronification as well as just
Speaker 1: the reality which is the car cycle is slowing. What's
Speaker 1: about on it that? Uh, we don't really see a
Speaker 1: a indication of the weaker market so far. I mean
Speaker 1: we have been very fortunate with our new car lines
Speaker 1: and we have the right cars being now popular on
Speaker 1: the on the on the market SUVs. We have three
Speaker 1: quarter of our stays is already today a SUVs, but
Speaker 1: the last quarter is also very important. And we have
Speaker 1: a very attractive new car being built in South Carolina.
Speaker 1: I knew said on so I think there will it
Speaker 1: will not be one under present SUVs. There will be
Speaker 1: awesome market for for other cars. So we are fortunate
Speaker 1: to have a strong product lineup and we can then
Speaker 1: of course continue growing our market share and that will
Speaker 1: help us. And and we are lucky than to be small.
Speaker 1: Not always good to be big. Sometimes it's also an
Speaker 1: advantage being small because the teacher to grow. Then, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you could just talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about producing cars in the US versus the rest of
Speaker 1: the world and sort of the competitive balance there. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you find it to be prohibitively expensive to expand
Speaker 1: production in the United States versus say, China. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean with no carrorists between China and and the U
Speaker 1: s that ha's of course complicated using a sort of
Speaker 1: exchange system between these two markets. We we were planning
Speaker 1: really to build a big sead on in China and
Speaker 1: important in to continue importing it into US, which we
Speaker 1: have been doing for some years. And then the one
Speaker 1: built in South Carolina was intended to go the other way.
Speaker 1: But of course with very high carrifts, we have to
Speaker 1: be able, we have to react to that. So right
Speaker 1: now we're planning to build the car we're building in
Speaker 1: South Carolina also in China because will be too expensive
Speaker 1: paying the twenty five percent importunities. But still I say,
Speaker 1: we have mitigated these new tariffs so far, so bye bye,
Speaker 1: and we were led to have the factory in the US.
Speaker 1: But I mean if it would continue then of course
Speaker 1: would be really a big drawback for I think all
Speaker 1: all car makers, if for also US and and US
Speaker 1: would introduce high tarriffs and that would be at the
Speaker 1: end more expensive cards for the consumer. I think they
Speaker 1: are the ones who will be paying the bill. Let
Speaker 1: them thanks very much for being with us. How can Samuelson,
Speaker 1: chief executive officer of Volvo and joining us from the
Speaker 1: l A automobile show And I don't think it's going
Speaker 1: to be an automobile show anymore, at least I think
Speaker 1: it's just going to be a technology show the way
Speaker 1: it's going. Yeah, Well, honestly, it's interesting to me. The
Speaker 1: focus on the practical experience. How to download your music,
Speaker 1: your audiobooks, you know, how do you create an use
Speaker 1: those systems? Right, exactly, and that if becomes tutorial exactly
Speaker 1: that in tech Indeed, all right, you're listening to blue
Speaker 1: Berg Markets. We are broadcasting from the Bloomberg Year Ahead
Speaker 1: Summit at Bloomberg World headquarters. We are so lucky to
Speaker 1: be joined by Franz Bueller, his president and chief executive
Speaker 1: officer of Aho Delis, which is based in the nether Lends,
Speaker 1: but he joins us here at our headquarters. Um this
Speaker 1: brand is the owner of staff in Shop, peep, Had
Speaker 1: Food Line, Giant and Hannaford. So right now, do you
Speaker 1: view trade as potentially the biggest threat to your business
Speaker 1: or technological changes that you need to keep up with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. The market is still very competitive and
Speaker 1: it will also remain the same in the next year.
Speaker 1: And you see that technology is going to have a
Speaker 1: big impact on industry for sure, to making customer journey
Speaker 1: even more attractive, to make it easier for customers to
Speaker 1: prepare the shop to predict their list, but also to
Speaker 1: give them more information on all kinds of things like
Speaker 1: food and navigation nounhealthier choices for food. So I think
Speaker 1: technology will be is going to play a big role.
Speaker 1: Another thing what's going to be an important thing on
Speaker 1: technology is the whole food provenance and we just had
Speaker 1: the romaine lettuce uh scare in the US a big thing,
Speaker 1: and I think more and more people talk about technology
Speaker 1: like blockchain to make sure that if the full supply
Speaker 1: chain visible. And the third thing on technology is that
Speaker 1: if you look at at labor in general, um, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things in the supply chain of retailers
Speaker 1: or where we can gain efficiencies with the more automation,
Speaker 1: more robotiz robotization of warehouses and these kind of things.
Speaker 1: So technology will be in a very important factors for
Speaker 1: the coming years. Are you also looking to shrink the
Speaker 1: actual size of the grocery store make it smaller? I
Speaker 1: think what we can see is that that online will
Speaker 1: have an impact on the bigger stores, but we use
Speaker 1: that space to have even more and stronger fresh parameter
Speaker 1: in those stores, to do more in organic, to do
Speaker 1: more in fresh food, and to have better offers UM.
Speaker 1: And at the same time, we also operate the smaller
Speaker 1: convenience stores, and we have a lot of them in Europe,
Speaker 1: of course, and I think there's also potential in the
Speaker 1: US to operate smaller stores, smaller supermarkets. So you were
Speaker 1: speaking to a publication earlier this month and you said
Speaker 1: that your company is in a good position for US
Speaker 1: mergers and acquisitions. What kinds of companies are you thinking
Speaker 1: about and how how quickly WI let's play out? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we UM we launched two weeks ago. This is leading
Speaker 1: together strategy UM where growth is very important, but also
Speaker 1: non organic growth, which is an opportunity. And if you
Speaker 1: just stick to the US on the East Coast, I
Speaker 1: think that we will see in further consolidation on the
Speaker 1: East Coast where a lot of companies cannot make up
Speaker 1: let's say, what the investments they have to make in
Speaker 1: technology and online and these kind of things, so that
Speaker 1: we have further consolidation. And with the branch you just
Speaker 1: mentioned where we are very proud about, we think that
Speaker 1: we can deepen our footprint along the whole East Coast
Speaker 1: by filling acquisitions or if we have other targets coming up,
Speaker 1: then we would be interested and the names. No, no,
Speaker 1: there's no no names at the moment. And you know
Speaker 1: everything about for looking statements. Speak a little bit if
Speaker 1: you can about in store dining and also the takeaway
Speaker 1: prepared food business. I think that's a great question. You
Speaker 1: see that more and more customers are looking for meal
Speaker 1: solutions and or to save time, or to get inspiration
Speaker 1: or to have in a very healthy proposition. But take
Speaker 1: it out and uh, and in store dining is part
Speaker 1: of this. We have now a lot of stores where
Speaker 1: we have kitchens inside where people can consume their meals.
Speaker 1: We have more and more investments in meal solutions, if
Speaker 1: it's very nice salads, if it's unique meals with a
Speaker 1: very healthy proposition. So I think that whole uh, what
Speaker 1: you call out of home meal solutions, that whole field
Speaker 1: is going to blur also with the supermarkets and and
Speaker 1: and the restaurants. I think that will be in a
Speaker 1: common space we call it that we would have to
Speaker 1: gain our share of stomach irrespectively where that beautiful meal
Speaker 1: is coming from. What does that say to him about
Speaker 1: our delayed gratification ability that we need to see food
Speaker 1: and consume it immediately. I'm curious, just you're talking about scale,
Speaker 1: and I have to wonder how important Amazon and Walmart
Speaker 1: are to the sort of pressure and race to advance
Speaker 1: sufficiently technologically. I mean, are you finding it increasingly difficult
Speaker 1: to compete given their scale? Um also a good question.
Speaker 1: But if we look at scale for us, it's a
Speaker 1: relative market share important in the markets where we operate.
Speaker 1: We have number one and two positions in all the
Speaker 1: markets along the East coast from Bangor in Maine to
Speaker 1: to u to the southern part of of the Carolinas.
Speaker 1: And it's about local scale, so local market share, and
Speaker 1: we connect them with a great local branch you just mentioned.
Speaker 1: And we believe that a strong local market share combined
Speaker 1: with brand strength is that that in an omnique channelso
Speaker 1: stores an online proposition together that is the strong company
Speaker 1: proposition for customers. And with our fortified billion dollars of
Speaker 1: of of sales, we have very strong positions and therefore
Speaker 1: the necessary scale. Your online sales growth was a big
Speaker 1: bright spot in the third quarter earnings results. In some
Speaker 1: cases up nearly will be spending more money to build
Speaker 1: that out. Yeah, we see that. We believe that consumers
Speaker 1: love a proposition where you have a bricks and mortars
Speaker 1: or store proposition linked and augmented with an online proposition
Speaker 1: um and we grow quite fast. We also will accelerate
Speaker 1: our growth in the US with people digital apps, and
Speaker 1: for next year we see there also growth. A lot
Speaker 1: of people talk about growth in online and magnificent figures everywhere.
Speaker 1: We should realize that we are only in the food
Speaker 1: business and fresh food and frozen food and chilled food.
Speaker 1: There's a very different game than than selling refrigerators, electronics,
Speaker 1: books and c d s and uh. And that's why
Speaker 1: dead growth is not easy to make. And with a
Speaker 1: one billion dollars at the moment, we are still leader
Speaker 1: on the East Coast in food online twenty seconds or less.
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, do you think that Amazon has been
Speaker 1: successful so far integrating Whole Foods. I don't know. They
Speaker 1: don't give me their boardroom reports on this, but I
Speaker 1: think they don't. Have you asked? I would love to
Speaker 1: ask them, but I think the answer prompt But they
Speaker 1: have You know, you know that our whole has check
Speaker 1: out what they call checkout free stores. Yes, well we
Speaker 1: have it. We have a lot of technology there, so
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of the technology we we we are
Speaker 1: doing already amazing things in the US and in Europe,
Speaker 1: but also on Amazon. Will see that fresh food looking
Speaker 1: at Amazon Fresh. That is a difficult turf to be
Speaker 1: very successful, and we have roughlyan hunter and thirty years
Speaker 1: experience with food. Thanks very much for being with us.
Speaker 1: Much appreciate it gets us already and hungry for lunch France.
Speaker 1: Muller is the president and the chief executive of our
Speaker 1: whole Del Hayes. I gotta say the late gratification that
Speaker 1: is totally me an inability to do it. You're listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Radio. Healthcare is an area right for disruption.
Speaker 1: Amazon is trying to do just that. Reported today in
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, they are starting to sell software
Speaker 1: that minds patient medical records for information that doctors and
Speaker 1: hospitals can use to improve treatment. Joining us now is
Speaker 1: Lloyd Biner, Dean of the Stanford University School of Medicine.
Speaker 1: We are so pleased to have you. Uh Dr, I'm
Speaker 1: just curious from your perspective, is what Amazon doing exactly
Speaker 1: what you're talking about in terms of modernizing healthcare and
Speaker 1: using big data and the lessons therein to help patients. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think, uh it's It's certainly one example of how
Speaker 1: gleaning information from the massive amounts of data that exists
Speaker 1: within electronic medical records, how that opers offers the opportunity
Speaker 1: to really improve the delivery of healthcare. You know, in
Speaker 1: order to really have individual lies, personalized healthcare, we have
Speaker 1: to look at the results and the outcomes from thousands
Speaker 1: and thousands of patients, uh in order to know what
Speaker 1: the evidence would suggest is the best treatment and prevention
Speaker 1: for disease in an individual patient. And I think what
Speaker 1: I also read this morning in the Wall Street Journal
Speaker 1: that Amazon is moving forward with is a step in
Speaker 1: that direction, and I'm sure that other major tech firms
Speaker 1: and cloud storage platforms are going to be interested in
Speaker 1: the same sorts of topics. The limitation for getting information
Speaker 1: from healthcare data today is not the AI or the algorithms,
Speaker 1: or the ability to do deep learning and neural network
Speaker 1: type approaches. Those are not the limiting factors. The limiting
Speaker 1: factors being able to bring the get data together in
Speaker 1: a way that those techniques of deep learning can be
Speaker 1: applied in a meaningful way. Dr Minor, I'm sure you've
Speaker 1: seen all of the charts and comparisons in terms of
Speaker 1: how much per capita the United States spends on healthcare.
Speaker 1: What is your thought about why do we spend more
Speaker 1: than any other developed country and we don't necessarily live
Speaker 1: longer or any better than the citizens of Switzerland, Germany,
Speaker 1: the Netherlands and so on. Why do we spend such
Speaker 1: an outsized amount in two minutes or less? Right? Clearly, Uh,
Speaker 1: there there are lots of factors. Certainly the payment system
Speaker 1: IS is one prominent factor. Um. You know, moving more
Speaker 1: towards value based reimbursement IS is something that I think
Speaker 1: we have begun to the United States, but clearly we
Speaker 1: need to continue along that pathway. In a strictly fee
Speaker 1: for service world, it becomes difficult to align the incentives,
Speaker 1: which should be based upon outcomes, that is, achieving the
Speaker 1: best health care outcomes with the payments. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the way any any sort of economy works, uh, when
Speaker 1: it work as well. So that's been a challenge in
Speaker 1: the United States. Also, we focused far too much on
Speaker 1: the latter stages of illness. We need to focus a
Speaker 1: lot more on prediction and prevention, and that's really been
Speaker 1: our goal. Uh. In Stanford Medicine, we define our strategic
Speaker 1: initiative as being precision health. We distinguish that from precision medicine.
Speaker 1: And then we also want to focus great science, great
Speaker 1: technology on prediction and prevention in addition to of course
Speaker 1: achieving the cures for those complex diseases. But we ought
Speaker 1: to be much more focused across the board on being
Speaker 1: better at prediction and prevention. That will reduce the demands
Speaker 1: on the system, because so much of the healthcare expenditures
Speaker 1: in the United States has spent in the most complex
Speaker 1: diseases and in the latter stages of life. So I
Speaker 1: want you to look into the future. The topic of
Speaker 1: your panel that's upcoming is the future of healthcare, and
Speaker 1: you envision a world where we have holographic m r
Speaker 1: s and scans and such so that radiologists can more
Speaker 1: accurately understand what's going on. Tell us about how close
Speaker 1: we are to the future. You would like to see
Speaker 1: at some of the features of that future. I think
Speaker 1: the advances and we started the discussion today talking about
Speaker 1: getting information from huge sources of data, so broadly speaking,
Speaker 1: under the heading of digital health, both the data mining
Speaker 1: aspects as well as the consumer focused devices and technologies,
Speaker 1: those offer remarkable opportunity to democratize healthcare delivery. You know,
Speaker 1: last year are a group of computer scientists at Stanford
Speaker 1: working with our dermatologists. Using a large database of images
Speaker 1: of skin lesions taken with smartphones, we're able to develop
Speaker 1: a deep learning based algorithm that can make a diagnosis
Speaker 1: of a skin lesion as accurately from this algorithm as
Speaker 1: a trained dermatologist. Now, that has a remarkable Now that
Speaker 1: not every community has a dermatologist, and by the way,
Speaker 1: in the communities that have dermatologists, you can't always get
Speaker 1: an appointment. But but and that's one example of many,
Speaker 1: many others of how we can use the same type
Speaker 1: of disruptors that have been so impactful and financial services
Speaker 1: in ordering goods and services and apply those to healthcare.
Speaker 1: All Right, So, how is privacy an obstacle here? Because
Speaker 1: I would imagine people are concerned that some of the
Speaker 1: big tech companies are gleaning all the information from everything
Speaker 1: they do on their phones. Anyway, if they start taking
Speaker 1: images and sort of connecting their health with their devices
Speaker 1: that follow them around, how does that play out? Sure,
Speaker 1: privacy is absolutely a concern. I think the key The
Speaker 1: first step is transparency, so people have to know how
Speaker 1: their data is going to be used. In the Wall
Speaker 1: Street Journal report that you and I both read this morning,
Speaker 1: it mentioned that Amazon furnishes a key that can only
Speaker 1: be opened or used by the institution that that has
Speaker 1: obtained the data. I know words Amazon will never access.
Speaker 1: According to the report, the individuals uh that whose data
Speaker 1: formed the basis of the deep learning process. You know,
Speaker 1: that's a first step, but there are lots of other
Speaker 1: steps that have to be taken as well. I would
Speaker 1: hope that as we have this dialogue based upon transparency,
Speaker 1: based upon really all of us in society understanding the
Speaker 1: opportunity that these approaches offered to improve healthcare, I would
Speaker 1: hope that each of us as an individual will become
Speaker 1: more comfortable with how our data will be used, because
Speaker 1: that's the only way we're really going to improve the
Speaker 1: delivery of healthcare. Now, we just learned that CVS has
Speaker 1: completed its acquisition of Ethna. What's your position, based on
Speaker 1: your experience as a medical professional, this combination between pharmacy
Speaker 1: benefit management corporations, regular pharmacies, and health insurers. I think
Speaker 1: the CVS at A merger is representative of a broader
Speaker 1: trend of consolidation in the healthcare market. In the country today.
Speaker 1: You know, there can be economies of scale and efficiencies
Speaker 1: from consolidation. There can also be concerns about UM about
Speaker 1: how the competitive drive and the UH sort of individual
Speaker 1: delivery systems and the innovation that comes from that, how
Speaker 1: that might be affected by massive consolidation with CVS and
Speaker 1: Etna and with other similar types of arrangements. What I
Speaker 1: see is a desire to build truly vertically integrated delivery systems,
Speaker 1: so where you and I, as as healthcare consumers, have
Speaker 1: everything covered under one umbrella, and that includes being able
Speaker 1: to get our prescriptions, uh under a comprehensive integrated plan.
Speaker 1: All right, thanks very much for being with us. Dr
Speaker 1: Lloyd Minor is the dean of Stanford University's School of Medicine,
Speaker 1: and he is here at the Bloomberg The Year Ahead
Speaker 1: conference talking about the future of healthcare and healthcare delivery.
Speaker 1: Fascinating discussion. I love the do you have being able
Speaker 1: to take a picture of something that concerns you and
Speaker 1: having Dr Googleberg give me an answer. Yeah, while you're
Speaker 1: in your autonomous driving vehicle drinking some champagne. This is Bloomberg. Today.
Speaker 1: CBS Health has closed it's seventy billion dollar deal to
Speaker 1: purchase the health insurer ETNA. Here to tell us more
Speaker 1: about the world of healthcare. Michael Ray, Founder, chief executive
Speaker 1: are Ex Savings Solutions. Michael, thank you very much for
Speaker 1: being with us. We've been waiting for this deal to
Speaker 1: close for many months. Do you think this is going
Speaker 1: to really transform the way healthcare is delivered to Americans? No?
Speaker 1: I do not, UM, I think that really what you
Speaker 1: see here is a combination of two companies in the
Speaker 1: healthcare space, one that handled, you know, strictly pharmacy benefits
Speaker 1: and one that handled underwrote risk on the health insurer side.
Speaker 1: I don't expect the consumer experience to change. I don't
Speaker 1: expect costs to change because of it. Um. I really
Speaker 1: just think it's it's kind of a combination and a
Speaker 1: new brand. Michael. One thing that possibly could change the
Speaker 1: landscape is the fact that big corporations are sort of
Speaker 1: taking things into their own hands. We've talked about, for example,
Speaker 1: h Berkshire Hathaway teaming up with JP Morgan and others
Speaker 1: to create their own health network. UM. But you're seeing
Speaker 1: it also with your own company, right, Yes, we are so.
Speaker 1: We recently signed a deal with the health Print Health
Speaker 1: Transformation Alliance the h t A, which is a combination
Speaker 1: of about fifty companies American Express, Coke UM, some of
Speaker 1: the some of the really large large players represents about
Speaker 1: six million lives and they have really formed this coalition
Speaker 1: to try to, to your point, take take things into
Speaker 1: their own hands and actually start to exert some of
Speaker 1: their own influence on what decisions are made and and
Speaker 1: how how consumers navigate the space. So, is the consequence
Speaker 1: for this potentially lowering the insurance costs for the companies
Speaker 1: or is it having collective pressure on the drug makers
Speaker 1: to lower prices. Yeah, it's gonna be both. So when
Speaker 1: a market is efficient when information flows freely. The idea
Speaker 1: is that when information is shared between the companies and
Speaker 1: also when consumers have more information, they can navigate the
Speaker 1: healthcare space like they do in every other facet of
Speaker 1: their life. That makes wiser decisions and lower prices. Is
Speaker 1: there any empirical evidence to support that. Absolutely. So. We
Speaker 1: have a number of case study clients, some one fifty
Speaker 1: thousand life group that uh we had a four to
Speaker 1: one r o I and under fifteen months. It is
Speaker 1: determined by how consumers navigate and begin to use tools
Speaker 1: and that comes down to marketing and how they're positioned.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, um, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ideas in the market. When you
Speaker 1: can actually produce our O, I that that's meaningful in
Speaker 1: the world we live in. So, Michael, I think the
Speaker 1: last time we talked was before the mid term elections.
Speaker 1: We've gotten the midterm elections results. The Democrats took the House.
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering what this means in terms of political
Speaker 1: pressure on reducing pharmaceutical drug prices. Well, it's everyone agrees,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a populist uh you know item. Everyone
Speaker 1: agrees that they want drug prices to go down, at
Speaker 1: least in their in their speaking uh you know, speeches.
Speaker 1: But I don't expect anything to to actually change. Um.
Speaker 1: You see it. There are too many market forces, too
Speaker 1: many strong lobbies. You've got a you know, Republican Senate
Speaker 1: in a in a Democratic House for starters. Um. So
Speaker 1: there may be small, small things like the gag clause
Speaker 1: was recently removed. Um, that's a very minor win. But
Speaker 1: everyone will hold onto it and and make sure that
Speaker 1: everyone knows, you know, during the next election cycle. But
Speaker 1: really transformational change is going to be tough to come by.
Speaker 1: Is transformational change stymied by the fact that Medicare and
Speaker 1: Medicaid do not negotiate. Yes, so this is all at
Speaker 1: the march, and this has nothing I mean, it's like saying,
Speaker 1: you biggest customer has no say in the cost of
Speaker 1: the product or service that they're buying. Correct, And I
Speaker 1: you know, so that there was a very bad deal
Speaker 1: made a while back on this and unfortunately we're living
Speaker 1: with the consequences. And and some of these drug companies
Speaker 1: have free reign. When they have, you know, a market
Speaker 1: essentially cornered, they can make the price whatever they want,
Speaker 1: get coverage and it costs taxpayers money. Okay, So this
Speaker 1: goes back to what you're working on currently, getting a
Speaker 1: number of big companies, including IBM, veries in an American
Speaker 1: Express together UH to try to share pricing information with
Speaker 1: their with their employees and exert their own pressure. If
Speaker 1: all of the companies, the big corporations in the United
Speaker 1: States joined forces and did some sort of thing like this,
Speaker 1: could that be enough. My belief is yes. My belief
Speaker 1: is that that is the that is the single best
Speaker 1: bet to make, whether it's our company or another company
Speaker 1: that's fulfilling that need. Uh. The market has to be
Speaker 1: able to vote. It has kept markets in check in
Speaker 1: every other industry, and we have to believe that if
Speaker 1: if consumers understand what their decisions are, what their options are,
Speaker 1: they can make better decisions and that will regulate a market.
Speaker 1: Will we see an end to tax credits for orphan drugs? Um?
Speaker 1: I don't think so. No, And and and I'm not
Speaker 1: necessarily opposed to those Um. There are some some disease
Speaker 1: states that deserve those dollars in my opinion. Um, but
Speaker 1: I don't think that they'll go away. So to the
Speaker 1: point that you were just talking about, if you could
Speaker 1: just give us a little bit of a sense of
Speaker 1: what your platform does and whether you actually see that happening,
Speaker 1: whether big corporations are accelerating their move into taking control
Speaker 1: of healthcare costs themselves enough that there actually could be
Speaker 1: some kind of reduction intro process. Yeah. So big corporations
Speaker 1: target for example, UM, you know they're on the hook
Speaker 1: for to pay a lot of money on the back
Speaker 1: side of a pharmacy claim aime. Um. The thought is, though,
Speaker 1: if they can empower their consumers to understand when they're
Speaker 1: at the doctor's office or even after. If they're trying
Speaker 1: to treat blood pressure, there might be ten different agents
Speaker 1: they could use. Um each of those agents have different
Speaker 1: prices depending on the pharmacy that is that has chosen.
Speaker 1: If you can distill that complex information down into something
Speaker 1: that's simple for consumers to understand, they can make choices
Speaker 1: at that point and pick the lowest cost pharmacy the
Speaker 1: lowest cost drug and not have anyone telling them what
Speaker 1: to do. People naturally resist when they're forced to make
Speaker 1: a you know, to make a decision that the third
Speaker 1: party wants. We don't have that bias. We don't care
Speaker 1: which one they picked. We just want them to know
Speaker 1: that the options, and like you would expect the time,
Speaker 1: they pick the lowest price pharmacy and the lowest price drug. Michael,
Speaker 1: whenever I meet anyone who comes to visit the United States,
Speaker 1: particularly from Europe, may talk about the health care system
Speaker 1: and the single payer options that exist in Europe. They
Speaker 1: ask one question, how do you live with the anxiety
Speaker 1: and stress and complexity of healthcare in the United States?
Speaker 1: Is there any evidence to suggest that single payer would
Speaker 1: be a way to go? And pencil you ask highly
Speaker 1: charged question UM, yeah, there there is. You know, there's
Speaker 1: some efficiencies and there are rules that are put in
Speaker 1: place to control things like drug pricing in Europe, and
Speaker 1: those things absolutely can have a big effect. We were
Speaker 1: just talking before this, and you know it, there is
Speaker 1: high anxiety to be sick in America and and that
Speaker 1: goes for sick people and healthy people. Nobody wants that
Speaker 1: to be them because you don't know what you're going
Speaker 1: to be exposed to. UM, So it there's anxiety. UM
Speaker 1: You're gonna need people to administer those benefits either way,
Speaker 1: whether it's a single payer of multiple players. Unfortunately, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna it's gonna happen in the near future.
Speaker 1: Michael right, Thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 1: Michael Ray is founder in chief executive officer of Our
Speaker 1: Saving Solutions, based in over Limp Park, Kansas, but joining
Speaker 1: us here at our thirty Lexington headquarters. Do Not Get Sick.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast.
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm
Speaker 1: on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo.
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Speaker 1: worldwide on Bloomberg Radio