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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. We

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Speaker 1: are broadcasting live from Bloomberg's The Year Ahead Conference at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg headquarters in New York City. On the other side

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Speaker 1: of the country is currently the l A Auto Show. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And there is Volvo and they did not bring a

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Speaker 1: car this year to the auto show to display. Hokan Samuelson,

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Speaker 1: who is the chief executive officer of Volvo, joins us

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Speaker 1: now from there. Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: So why didn't you want to display a car and

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Speaker 1: what does it mean to have a concept car? Uh? Okay,

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Speaker 1: nice being with you. We really see that maybe the

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Speaker 1: times when you show the car foot of the clothes

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Speaker 1: in front of an audience, it feels a bit outdated,

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Speaker 1: especially as the core of the future will have a

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Speaker 1: lot more than just the hardware. So we decided, then

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Speaker 1: let's focus on on those new customer experiences instead of

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Speaker 1: the hardware and then maybe not deluse the message. Let's

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Speaker 1: take the car out. So we have here one station

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Speaker 1: we talked about in care importainment system of the future

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Speaker 1: where we have a partnership with the Google bringing in

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Speaker 1: the Android in the car. Another interesting example of a

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Speaker 1: connectivity services with Amazon. We have people from Amazon. You're

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Speaker 1: showing how you can get your Internet supply directly into

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Speaker 1: your car because normally you're not that home when they

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Speaker 1: come to deliver the stuff. So that's the practical solution

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Speaker 1: also for our for our customers. So these are two

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Speaker 1: examples of what the care of the future could could be.

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Speaker 1: Besides and of course a nice car. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about the three sixty C This

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Speaker 1: is the concept car that Lisa was referring to, and

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Speaker 1: the venture that you have with Luminar, and how the

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Speaker 1: technology that Luminar is pursuing with you is really going

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Speaker 1: to change the in car experience. And I have a

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Speaker 1: feeling that you'll even be able to have a glass

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Speaker 1: of champagne while you're in the car and it won't

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Speaker 1: it won't be a danger. Okay, it's a really good

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Speaker 1: point because of course, to be able to enjoy any

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Speaker 1: type of in car portayment or you need to have

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Speaker 1: a car which of course could be driven safely automated.

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Speaker 1: And that's where luminar comes in to the picture. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's a very interesting start top that we have also

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Speaker 1: on stand here, which is a long range high definition

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Speaker 1: light art. So it's really as with the human the

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Speaker 1: ability to see. It's crucial for a stage drive, and

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Speaker 1: I mean the computer also needs a better revision. It

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Speaker 1: has cameras, radars, but also light darts. And then the

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Speaker 1: lider is especially important, and the gluminar is taking a

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Speaker 1: step forward here of having a long range, high definition lider. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I have to think, you know, you're talking about the

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Speaker 1: experience and there seems to be a d emphasis of

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Speaker 1: actually purchasing the vehicle, and perhaps this is what's behind

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Speaker 1: General Motors in the recent announcement they came out with

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Speaker 1: to cut a huge proportion of their staff in response

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Speaker 1: to changes in automation and electronification as well as just

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Speaker 1: the reality which is the car cycle is slowing. What's

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Speaker 1: about on it that? Uh, we don't really see a

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Speaker 1: a indication of the weaker market so far. I mean

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Speaker 1: we have been very fortunate with our new car lines

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Speaker 1: and we have the right cars being now popular on

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Speaker 1: the on the on the market SUVs. We have three

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Speaker 1: quarter of our stays is already today a SUVs, but

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Speaker 1: the last quarter is also very important. And we have

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Speaker 1: a very attractive new car being built in South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: I knew said on so I think there will it

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Speaker 1: will not be one under present SUVs. There will be

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Speaker 1: awesome market for for other cars. So we are fortunate

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Speaker 1: to have a strong product lineup and we can then

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Speaker 1: of course continue growing our market share and that will

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Speaker 1: help us. And and we are lucky than to be small.

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Speaker 1: Not always good to be big. Sometimes it's also an

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Speaker 1: advantage being small because the teacher to grow. Then, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you could just talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about producing cars in the US versus the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world and sort of the competitive balance there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you find it to be prohibitively expensive to expand

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Speaker 1: production in the United States versus say, China. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean with no carrorists between China and and the U

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Speaker 1: s that ha's of course complicated using a sort of

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Speaker 1: exchange system between these two markets. We we were planning

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Speaker 1: really to build a big sead on in China and

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Speaker 1: important in to continue importing it into US, which we

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Speaker 1: have been doing for some years. And then the one

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Speaker 1: built in South Carolina was intended to go the other way.

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Speaker 1: But of course with very high carrifts, we have to

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Speaker 1: be able, we have to react to that. So right

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Speaker 1: now we're planning to build the car we're building in

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Speaker 1: South Carolina also in China because will be too expensive

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Speaker 1: paying the twenty five percent importunities. But still I say,

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Speaker 1: we have mitigated these new tariffs so far, so bye bye,

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Speaker 1: and we were led to have the factory in the US.

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Speaker 1: But I mean if it would continue then of course

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Speaker 1: would be really a big drawback for I think all

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Speaker 1: all car makers, if for also US and and US

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Speaker 1: would introduce high tarriffs and that would be at the

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Speaker 1: end more expensive cards for the consumer. I think they

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Speaker 1: are the ones who will be paying the bill. Let

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Speaker 1: them thanks very much for being with us. How can Samuelson,

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Speaker 1: chief executive officer of Volvo and joining us from the

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Speaker 1: l A automobile show And I don't think it's going

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Speaker 1: to be an automobile show anymore, at least I think

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Speaker 1: it's just going to be a technology show the way

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Speaker 1: it's going. Yeah, Well, honestly, it's interesting to me. The

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Speaker 1: focus on the practical experience. How to download your music,

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Speaker 1: your audiobooks, you know, how do you create an use

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Speaker 1: those systems? Right, exactly, and that if becomes tutorial exactly

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Speaker 1: that in tech Indeed, all right, you're listening to blue

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Speaker 1: Berg Markets. We are broadcasting from the Bloomberg Year Ahead

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Speaker 1: Summit at Bloomberg World headquarters. We are so lucky to

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Speaker 1: be joined by Franz Bueller, his president and chief executive

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Speaker 1: officer of Aho Delis, which is based in the nether Lends,

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Speaker 1: but he joins us here at our headquarters. Um this

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Speaker 1: brand is the owner of staff in Shop, peep, Had

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Speaker 1: Food Line, Giant and Hannaford. So right now, do you

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Speaker 1: view trade as potentially the biggest threat to your business

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Speaker 1: or technological changes that you need to keep up with. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's for sure. The market is still very competitive and

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Speaker 1: it will also remain the same in the next year.

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Speaker 1: And you see that technology is going to have a

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Speaker 1: big impact on industry for sure, to making customer journey

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Speaker 1: even more attractive, to make it easier for customers to

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Speaker 1: prepare the shop to predict their list, but also to

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Speaker 1: give them more information on all kinds of things like

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Speaker 1: food and navigation nounhealthier choices for food. So I think

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Speaker 1: technology will be is going to play a big role.

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Speaker 1: Another thing what's going to be an important thing on

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Speaker 1: technology is the whole food provenance and we just had

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Speaker 1: the romaine lettuce uh scare in the US a big thing,

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Speaker 1: and I think more and more people talk about technology

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Speaker 1: like blockchain to make sure that if the full supply

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Speaker 1: chain visible. And the third thing on technology is that

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Speaker 1: if you look at at labor in general, um, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things in the supply chain of retailers

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Speaker 1: or where we can gain efficiencies with the more automation,

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Speaker 1: more robotiz robotization of warehouses and these kind of things.

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Speaker 1: So technology will be in a very important factors for

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Speaker 1: the coming years. Are you also looking to shrink the

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Speaker 1: actual size of the grocery store make it smaller? I

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Speaker 1: think what we can see is that that online will

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Speaker 1: have an impact on the bigger stores, but we use

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Speaker 1: that space to have even more and stronger fresh parameter

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Speaker 1: in those stores, to do more in organic, to do

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Speaker 1: more in fresh food, and to have better offers UM.

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Speaker 1: And at the same time, we also operate the smaller

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Speaker 1: convenience stores, and we have a lot of them in Europe,

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Speaker 1: of course, and I think there's also potential in the

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Speaker 1: US to operate smaller stores, smaller supermarkets. So you were

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Speaker 1: speaking to a publication earlier this month and you said

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Speaker 1: that your company is in a good position for US

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Speaker 1: mergers and acquisitions. What kinds of companies are you thinking

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Speaker 1: about and how how quickly WI let's play out? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we UM we launched two weeks ago. This is leading

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Speaker 1: together strategy UM where growth is very important, but also

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Speaker 1: non organic growth, which is an opportunity. And if you

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Speaker 1: just stick to the US on the East Coast, I

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Speaker 1: think that we will see in further consolidation on the

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Speaker 1: East Coast where a lot of companies cannot make up

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Speaker 1: let's say, what the investments they have to make in

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Speaker 1: technology and online and these kind of things, so that

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Speaker 1: we have further consolidation. And with the branch you just

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Speaker 1: mentioned where we are very proud about, we think that

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Speaker 1: we can deepen our footprint along the whole East Coast

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Speaker 1: by filling acquisitions or if we have other targets coming up,

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Speaker 1: then we would be interested and the names. No, no,

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Speaker 1: there's no no names at the moment. And you know

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Speaker 1: everything about for looking statements. Speak a little bit if

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Speaker 1: you can about in store dining and also the takeaway

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Speaker 1: prepared food business. I think that's a great question. You

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Speaker 1: see that more and more customers are looking for meal

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Speaker 1: solutions and or to save time, or to get inspiration

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Speaker 1: or to have in a very healthy proposition. But take

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Speaker 1: it out and uh, and in store dining is part

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Speaker 1: of this. We have now a lot of stores where

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Speaker 1: we have kitchens inside where people can consume their meals.

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Speaker 1: We have more and more investments in meal solutions, if

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Speaker 1: it's very nice salads, if it's unique meals with a

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Speaker 1: very healthy proposition. So I think that whole uh, what

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Speaker 1: you call out of home meal solutions, that whole field

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Speaker 1: is going to blur also with the supermarkets and and

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Speaker 1: and the restaurants. I think that will be in a

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Speaker 1: common space we call it that we would have to

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Speaker 1: gain our share of stomach irrespectively where that beautiful meal

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Speaker 1: is coming from. What does that say to him about

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Speaker 1: our delayed gratification ability that we need to see food

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Speaker 1: and consume it immediately. I'm curious, just you're talking about scale,

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Speaker 1: and I have to wonder how important Amazon and Walmart

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Speaker 1: are to the sort of pressure and race to advance

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Speaker 1: sufficiently technologically. I mean, are you finding it increasingly difficult

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Speaker 1: to compete given their scale? Um also a good question.

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Speaker 1: But if we look at scale for us, it's a

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Speaker 1: relative market share important in the markets where we operate.

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Speaker 1: We have number one and two positions in all the

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Speaker 1: markets along the East coast from Bangor in Maine to

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Speaker 1: to u to the southern part of of the Carolinas.

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Speaker 1: And it's about local scale, so local market share, and

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Speaker 1: we connect them with a great local branch you just mentioned.

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Speaker 1: And we believe that a strong local market share combined

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Speaker 1: with brand strength is that that in an omnique channelso

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Speaker 1: stores an online proposition together that is the strong company

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Speaker 1: proposition for customers. And with our fortified billion dollars of

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Speaker 1: of of sales, we have very strong positions and therefore

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Speaker 1: the necessary scale. Your online sales growth was a big

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Speaker 1: bright spot in the third quarter earnings results. In some

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Speaker 1: cases up nearly will be spending more money to build

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Speaker 1: that out. Yeah, we see that. We believe that consumers

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Speaker 1: love a proposition where you have a bricks and mortars

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Speaker 1: or store proposition linked and augmented with an online proposition

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Speaker 1: um and we grow quite fast. We also will accelerate

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Speaker 1: our growth in the US with people digital apps, and

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Speaker 1: for next year we see there also growth. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people talk about growth in online and magnificent figures everywhere.

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Speaker 1: We should realize that we are only in the food

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Speaker 1: business and fresh food and frozen food and chilled food.

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Speaker 1: There's a very different game than than selling refrigerators, electronics,

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Speaker 1: books and c d s and uh. And that's why

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Speaker 1: dead growth is not easy to make. And with a

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Speaker 1: one billion dollars at the moment, we are still leader

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Speaker 1: on the East Coast in food online twenty seconds or less.

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Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, do you think that Amazon has been

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Speaker 1: successful so far integrating Whole Foods. I don't know. They

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Speaker 1: don't give me their boardroom reports on this, but I

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Speaker 1: think they don't. Have you asked? I would love to

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Speaker 1: ask them, but I think the answer prompt But they

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Speaker 1: have You know, you know that our whole has check

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Speaker 1: out what they call checkout free stores. Yes, well we

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Speaker 1: have it. We have a lot of technology there, so

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Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of the technology we we we are

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Speaker 1: doing already amazing things in the US and in Europe,

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Speaker 1: but also on Amazon. Will see that fresh food looking

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Speaker 1: at Amazon Fresh. That is a difficult turf to be

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Speaker 1: very successful, and we have roughlyan hunter and thirty years

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Speaker 1: experience with food. Thanks very much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Much appreciate it gets us already and hungry for lunch France.

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Speaker 1: Muller is the president and the chief executive of our

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Speaker 1: whole Del Hayes. I gotta say the late gratification that

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Speaker 1: is totally me an inability to do it. You're listening

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Radio. Healthcare is an area right for disruption.

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Speaker 1: Amazon is trying to do just that. Reported today in

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Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, they are starting to sell software

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Speaker 1: that minds patient medical records for information that doctors and

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Speaker 1: hospitals can use to improve treatment. Joining us now is

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Speaker 1: Lloyd Biner, Dean of the Stanford University School of Medicine.

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Speaker 1: We are so pleased to have you. Uh Dr, I'm

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Speaker 1: just curious from your perspective, is what Amazon doing exactly

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about in terms of modernizing healthcare and

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Speaker 1: using big data and the lessons therein to help patients. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think, uh it's It's certainly one example of how

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Speaker 1: gleaning information from the massive amounts of data that exists

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Speaker 1: within electronic medical records, how that opers offers the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to really improve the delivery of healthcare. You know, in

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Speaker 1: order to really have individual lies, personalized healthcare, we have

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Speaker 1: to look at the results and the outcomes from thousands

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Speaker 1: and thousands of patients, uh in order to know what

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Speaker 1: the evidence would suggest is the best treatment and prevention

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Speaker 1: for disease in an individual patient. And I think what

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Speaker 1: I also read this morning in the Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 1: that Amazon is moving forward with is a step in

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Speaker 1: that direction, and I'm sure that other major tech firms

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Speaker 1: and cloud storage platforms are going to be interested in

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Speaker 1: the same sorts of topics. The limitation for getting information

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Speaker 1: from healthcare data today is not the AI or the algorithms,

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Speaker 1: or the ability to do deep learning and neural network

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Speaker 1: type approaches. Those are not the limiting factors. The limiting

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Speaker 1: factors being able to bring the get data together in

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Speaker 1: a way that those techniques of deep learning can be

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Speaker 1: applied in a meaningful way. Dr Minor, I'm sure you've

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Speaker 1: seen all of the charts and comparisons in terms of

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Speaker 1: how much per capita the United States spends on healthcare.

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Speaker 1: What is your thought about why do we spend more

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Speaker 1: than any other developed country and we don't necessarily live

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Speaker 1: longer or any better than the citizens of Switzerland, Germany,

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Speaker 1: the Netherlands and so on. Why do we spend such

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Speaker 1: an outsized amount in two minutes or less? Right? Clearly, Uh,

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Speaker 1: there there are lots of factors. Certainly the payment system

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Speaker 1: IS is one prominent factor. Um. You know, moving more

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Speaker 1: towards value based reimbursement IS is something that I think

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Speaker 1: we have begun to the United States, but clearly we

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Speaker 1: need to continue along that pathway. In a strictly fee

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Speaker 1: for service world, it becomes difficult to align the incentives,

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Speaker 1: which should be based upon outcomes, that is, achieving the

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Speaker 1: best health care outcomes with the payments. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: the way any any sort of economy works, uh, when

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Speaker 1: it work as well. So that's been a challenge in

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Speaker 1: the United States. Also, we focused far too much on

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Speaker 1: the latter stages of illness. We need to focus a

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Speaker 1: lot more on prediction and prevention, and that's really been

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Speaker 1: our goal. Uh. In Stanford Medicine, we define our strategic

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Speaker 1: initiative as being precision health. We distinguish that from precision medicine.

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Speaker 1: And then we also want to focus great science, great

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Speaker 1: technology on prediction and prevention in addition to of course

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Speaker 1: achieving the cures for those complex diseases. But we ought

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Speaker 1: to be much more focused across the board on being

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Speaker 1: better at prediction and prevention. That will reduce the demands

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Speaker 1: on the system, because so much of the healthcare expenditures

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Speaker 1: in the United States has spent in the most complex

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Speaker 1: diseases and in the latter stages of life. So I

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Speaker 1: want you to look into the future. The topic of

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Speaker 1: your panel that's upcoming is the future of healthcare, and

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Speaker 1: you envision a world where we have holographic m r

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Speaker 1: s and scans and such so that radiologists can more

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Speaker 1: accurately understand what's going on. Tell us about how close

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Speaker 1: we are to the future. You would like to see

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Speaker 1: at some of the features of that future. I think

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Speaker 1: the advances and we started the discussion today talking about

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Speaker 1: getting information from huge sources of data, so broadly speaking,

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Speaker 1: under the heading of digital health, both the data mining

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Speaker 1: aspects as well as the consumer focused devices and technologies,

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Speaker 1: those offer remarkable opportunity to democratize healthcare delivery. You know,

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Speaker 1: last year are a group of computer scientists at Stanford

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Speaker 1: working with our dermatologists. Using a large database of images

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Speaker 1: of skin lesions taken with smartphones, we're able to develop

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Speaker 1: a deep learning based algorithm that can make a diagnosis

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Speaker 1: of a skin lesion as accurately from this algorithm as

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Speaker 1: a trained dermatologist. Now, that has a remarkable Now that

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Speaker 1: not every community has a dermatologist, and by the way,

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Speaker 1: in the communities that have dermatologists, you can't always get

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Speaker 1: an appointment. But but and that's one example of many,

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Speaker 1: many others of how we can use the same type

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Speaker 1: of disruptors that have been so impactful and financial services

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Speaker 1: in ordering goods and services and apply those to healthcare.

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Speaker 1: All Right, So, how is privacy an obstacle here? Because

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Speaker 1: I would imagine people are concerned that some of the

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Speaker 1: big tech companies are gleaning all the information from everything

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Speaker 1: they do on their phones. Anyway, if they start taking

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Speaker 1: images and sort of connecting their health with their devices

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Speaker 1: that follow them around, how does that play out? Sure,

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Speaker 1: privacy is absolutely a concern. I think the key The

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Speaker 1: first step is transparency, so people have to know how

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Speaker 1: their data is going to be used. In the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal report that you and I both read this morning,

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Speaker 1: it mentioned that Amazon furnishes a key that can only

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Speaker 1: be opened or used by the institution that that has

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Speaker 1: obtained the data. I know words Amazon will never access.

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Speaker 1: According to the report, the individuals uh that whose data

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Speaker 1: formed the basis of the deep learning process. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's a first step, but there are lots of other

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Speaker 1: steps that have to be taken as well. I would

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Speaker 1: hope that as we have this dialogue based upon transparency,

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Speaker 1: based upon really all of us in society understanding the

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Speaker 1: opportunity that these approaches offered to improve healthcare, I would

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Speaker 1: hope that each of us as an individual will become

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Speaker 1: more comfortable with how our data will be used, because

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Speaker 1: that's the only way we're really going to improve the

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Speaker 1: delivery of healthcare. Now, we just learned that CVS has

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Speaker 1: completed its acquisition of Ethna. What's your position, based on

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Speaker 1: your experience as a medical professional, this combination between pharmacy

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Speaker 1: benefit management corporations, regular pharmacies, and health insurers. I think

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Speaker 1: the CVS at A merger is representative of a broader

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Speaker 1: trend of consolidation in the healthcare market. In the country today.

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Speaker 1: You know, there can be economies of scale and efficiencies

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Speaker 1: from consolidation. There can also be concerns about UM about

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Speaker 1: how the competitive drive and the UH sort of individual

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Speaker 1: delivery systems and the innovation that comes from that, how

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Speaker 1: that might be affected by massive consolidation with CVS and

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Speaker 1: Etna and with other similar types of arrangements. What I

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Speaker 1: see is a desire to build truly vertically integrated delivery systems,

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Speaker 1: so where you and I, as as healthcare consumers, have

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Speaker 1: everything covered under one umbrella, and that includes being able

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Speaker 1: to get our prescriptions, uh under a comprehensive integrated plan.

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Speaker 1: All right, thanks very much for being with us. Dr

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Speaker 1: Lloyd Minor is the dean of Stanford University's School of Medicine,

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Speaker 1: and he is here at the Bloomberg The Year Ahead

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Speaker 1: conference talking about the future of healthcare and healthcare delivery.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating discussion. I love the do you have being able

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Speaker 1: to take a picture of something that concerns you and

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Speaker 1: having Dr Googleberg give me an answer. Yeah, while you're

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Speaker 1: in your autonomous driving vehicle drinking some champagne. This is Bloomberg. Today.

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Speaker 1: CBS Health has closed it's seventy billion dollar deal to

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Speaker 1: purchase the health insurer ETNA. Here to tell us more

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Speaker 1: about the world of healthcare. Michael Ray, Founder, chief executive

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Speaker 1: are Ex Savings Solutions. Michael, thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: being with us. We've been waiting for this deal to

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Speaker 1: close for many months. Do you think this is going

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Speaker 1: to really transform the way healthcare is delivered to Americans? No?

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Speaker 1: I do not, UM, I think that really what you

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Speaker 1: see here is a combination of two companies in the

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Speaker 1: healthcare space, one that handled, you know, strictly pharmacy benefits

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Speaker 1: and one that handled underwrote risk on the health insurer side.

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Speaker 1: I don't expect the consumer experience to change. I don't

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Speaker 1: expect costs to change because of it. Um. I really

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Speaker 1: just think it's it's kind of a combination and a

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Speaker 1: new brand. Michael. One thing that possibly could change the

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Speaker 1: landscape is the fact that big corporations are sort of

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Speaker 1: taking things into their own hands. We've talked about, for example,

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Speaker 1: h Berkshire Hathaway teaming up with JP Morgan and others

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Speaker 1: to create their own health network. UM. But you're seeing

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Speaker 1: it also with your own company, right, Yes, we are so.

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Speaker 1: We recently signed a deal with the health Print Health

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Speaker 1: Transformation Alliance the h t A, which is a combination

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Speaker 1: of about fifty companies American Express, Coke UM, some of

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Speaker 1: the some of the really large large players represents about

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Speaker 1: six million lives and they have really formed this coalition

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Speaker 1: to try to, to your point, take take things into

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Speaker 1: their own hands and actually start to exert some of

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Speaker 1: their own influence on what decisions are made and and

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Speaker 1: how how consumers navigate the space. So, is the consequence

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Speaker 1: for this potentially lowering the insurance costs for the companies

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Speaker 1: or is it having collective pressure on the drug makers

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Speaker 1: to lower prices. Yeah, it's gonna be both. So when

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Speaker 1: a market is efficient when information flows freely. The idea

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Speaker 1: is that when information is shared between the companies and

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Speaker 1: also when consumers have more information, they can navigate the

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Speaker 1: healthcare space like they do in every other facet of

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Speaker 1: their life. That makes wiser decisions and lower prices. Is

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Speaker 1: there any empirical evidence to support that. Absolutely. So. We

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Speaker 1: have a number of case study clients, some one fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand life group that uh we had a four to

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Speaker 1: one r o I and under fifteen months. It is

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Speaker 1: determined by how consumers navigate and begin to use tools

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Speaker 1: and that comes down to marketing and how they're positioned.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of ideas in the market. When you

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Speaker 1: can actually produce our O, I that that's meaningful in

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Speaker 1: the world we live in. So, Michael, I think the

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Speaker 1: last time we talked was before the mid term elections.

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Speaker 1: We've gotten the midterm elections results. The Democrats took the House.

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Speaker 1: I'm just wondering what this means in terms of political

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Speaker 1: pressure on reducing pharmaceutical drug prices. Well, it's everyone agrees,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a populist uh you know item. Everyone

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Speaker 1: agrees that they want drug prices to go down, at

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Speaker 1: least in their in their speaking uh you know, speeches.

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Speaker 1: But I don't expect anything to to actually change. Um.

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Speaker 1: You see it. There are too many market forces, too

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Speaker 1: many strong lobbies. You've got a you know, Republican Senate

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Speaker 1: in a in a Democratic House for starters. Um. So

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Speaker 1: there may be small, small things like the gag clause

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Speaker 1: was recently removed. Um, that's a very minor win. But

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Speaker 1: everyone will hold onto it and and make sure that

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Speaker 1: everyone knows, you know, during the next election cycle. But

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Speaker 1: really transformational change is going to be tough to come by.

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Speaker 1: Is transformational change stymied by the fact that Medicare and

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00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 1: Medicaid do not negotiate. Yes, so this is all at

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00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: the march, and this has nothing I mean, it's like saying,

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00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: you biggest customer has no say in the cost of

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00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: the product or service that they're buying. Correct, And I

440
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: you know, so that there was a very bad deal

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00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: made a while back on this and unfortunately we're living

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00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: with the consequences. And and some of these drug companies

443
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: have free reign. When they have, you know, a market

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00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: essentially cornered, they can make the price whatever they want,

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00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: get coverage and it costs taxpayers money. Okay, So this

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00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: goes back to what you're working on currently, getting a

447
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: number of big companies, including IBM, veries in an American

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00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: Express together UH to try to share pricing information with

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00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: their with their employees and exert their own pressure. If

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00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: all of the companies, the big corporations in the United

451
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 1: States joined forces and did some sort of thing like this,

452
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: could that be enough. My belief is yes. My belief

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00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: is that that is the that is the single best

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00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: bet to make, whether it's our company or another company

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00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: that's fulfilling that need. Uh. The market has to be

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00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: able to vote. It has kept markets in check in

457
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: every other industry, and we have to believe that if

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00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 1: if consumers understand what their decisions are, what their options are,

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00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: they can make better decisions and that will regulate a market.

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00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: Will we see an end to tax credits for orphan drugs? Um?

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00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: I don't think so. No, And and and I'm not

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00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: necessarily opposed to those Um. There are some some disease

463
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: states that deserve those dollars in my opinion. Um, but

464
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: I don't think that they'll go away. So to the

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00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: point that you were just talking about, if you could

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00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: just give us a little bit of a sense of

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00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: what your platform does and whether you actually see that happening,

468
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: whether big corporations are accelerating their move into taking control

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00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: of healthcare costs themselves enough that there actually could be

470
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: some kind of reduction intro process. Yeah. So big corporations

471
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: target for example, UM, you know they're on the hook

472
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: for to pay a lot of money on the back

473
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: side of a pharmacy claim aime. Um. The thought is, though,

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00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: if they can empower their consumers to understand when they're

475
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: at the doctor's office or even after. If they're trying

476
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: to treat blood pressure, there might be ten different agents

477
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: they could use. Um each of those agents have different

478
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: prices depending on the pharmacy that is that has chosen.

479
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: If you can distill that complex information down into something

480
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: that's simple for consumers to understand, they can make choices

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00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: at that point and pick the lowest cost pharmacy the

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00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: lowest cost drug and not have anyone telling them what

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00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: to do. People naturally resist when they're forced to make

484
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: a you know, to make a decision that the third

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00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: party wants. We don't have that bias. We don't care

486
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: which one they picked. We just want them to know

487
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: that the options, and like you would expect the time,

488
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: they pick the lowest price pharmacy and the lowest price drug. Michael,

489
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: whenever I meet anyone who comes to visit the United States,

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00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: particularly from Europe, may talk about the health care system

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00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: and the single payer options that exist in Europe. They

492
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: ask one question, how do you live with the anxiety

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00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: and stress and complexity of healthcare in the United States?

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00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: Is there any evidence to suggest that single payer would

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00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: be a way to go? And pencil you ask highly

496
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: charged question UM, yeah, there there is. You know, there's

497
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: some efficiencies and there are rules that are put in

498
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: place to control things like drug pricing in Europe, and

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00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: those things absolutely can have a big effect. We were

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00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: just talking before this, and you know it, there is

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00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,719
Speaker 1: high anxiety to be sick in America and and that

502
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: goes for sick people and healthy people. Nobody wants that

503
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: to be them because you don't know what you're going

504
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: to be exposed to. UM, So it there's anxiety. UM

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00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: You're gonna need people to administer those benefits either way,

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00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: whether it's a single payer of multiple players. Unfortunately, I

507
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna it's gonna happen in the near future.

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00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: Michael right, Thank you so much for being with us.

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00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: Michael Ray is founder in chief executive officer of Our

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00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: Saving Solutions, based in over Limp Park, Kansas, but joining

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00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: us here at our thirty Lexington headquarters. Do Not Get Sick.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast.

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00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm

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00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo.

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Speaker 1: It's one before the podcast. You can always catch us

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00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: worldwide on Bloomberg Radio