WEBVTT - Benghazi: Episode 1 - The Dictator

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Hey Leon here, before we get to this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to let you know that you can binge

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<v Speaker 1>the entire season of Fiasco Benghazi right now ad free

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<v Speaker 1>by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Sign up for Pushkin

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<v Speaker 1>Plus on the Fiasco Apple podcast showpage or visit Pushkin

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<v Speaker 1>dot Fm Slash Plus now onto the show. On the

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<v Speaker 1>night of September eleventh, twenty twelve, four Americans were killed

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<v Speaker 1>in Benghazi, a city in Libya on the Mediterranean Sea.

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<v Speaker 2>What potentially happened in Libya in the city of Benghazi.

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<v Speaker 2>Not only did the attackers storm the building in Benghazi.

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<v Speaker 1>The attack began when a group of armed assailants broke

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<v Speaker 1>into a diplomatic compound operated by the State Department. Would

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<v Speaker 1>mean that it ended nearly eight hours later with the

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<v Speaker 1>bombing of a secret CIA base nearby.

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<v Speaker 2>First they attacked it with RPG rifles, then they opened

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<v Speaker 2>fire on it with machine guns.

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<v Speaker 1>Among the victims was the American ambassador to Libya, Chris Stevens.

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<v Speaker 3>And again.

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<v Speaker 2>His name is John Christopher Stevens, and he was born

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<v Speaker 2>in Northern California in nineteen sixty.

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<v Speaker 1>Stevens had been posted in Libya on and off for

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<v Speaker 1>the better part of five years. On the night of

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<v Speaker 1>the attack, he died of smoke in elation after the

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<v Speaker 1>assailants set fire to the villa where he was hiding

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<v Speaker 1>from them. Afterwards, it seemed like all anyone in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States wanted to talk about was whose fault it was.

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<v Speaker 4>The Obama administration resisting responsibility.

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<v Speaker 5>There's a lot of dispute when the administration knew how

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<v Speaker 5>dangerous the situation with Lizim ben Ghazi, the situation.

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<v Speaker 1>Who had let it happen, Who had failed to stop

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<v Speaker 1>it once it started, Whose lack of vigilance had allowed

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<v Speaker 1>the attackers to do as much damage as they did.

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<v Speaker 1>Should they have had more advanced warning, should they have

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<v Speaker 1>set more security. A question that usually got skipped over

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<v Speaker 1>as if the answer were self evident, was what Ambassador

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<v Speaker 1>Stevens was doing in Benghazi to begin with. All anyone

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<v Speaker 1>seemed interested in was that the American mission in Libya

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<v Speaker 1>had failed, not what the mission had actually been.

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<v Speaker 5>My name is Chris Stevens, and I'm excited to continue

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<v Speaker 5>the great work we've started building a solid partnership between

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<v Speaker 5>the United States and Libya to help you, the Libyan people,

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<v Speaker 5>achieve your goals.

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<v Speaker 1>For more than forty years, Libya had been ruled by

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<v Speaker 1>a violent and eccentric dictator, Mumar Gadafi.

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<v Speaker 6>We read that you are mad.

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<v Speaker 7>You know that those things had been invented.

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<v Speaker 1>Gaddafi had long been regarded in the West as an

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<v Speaker 1>unparalleled menace. Before bin Laden, Kaddafi was the face of

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<v Speaker 1>international terrorism.

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<v Speaker 4>He's been called the world number one terrorist, a madman

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<v Speaker 4>who exports terrorists them around the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Ronald Reagan once memorably called Kadafi the mad dog of

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<v Speaker 1>the Middle East. What I had forgotten, or never really

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<v Speaker 1>absorbed in the first place, was that during the early

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<v Speaker 1>two thousands, under the Bush administration, the United States had

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<v Speaker 1>reconciled with Kadafi. We lifted sanctions, we established diplomatic relations.

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<v Speaker 1>We even accepted his help in pursuing suspected terrorists.

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<v Speaker 8>The United States may have a new ally in the

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<v Speaker 8>war on terror, Libya's Momar Kadafi says.

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<v Speaker 1>American oil companies were doing business with Libya for the

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<v Speaker 1>first time in decades. In Tripoli, Libya's capital city, the

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<v Speaker 1>State Department opened a new American embassy. As you'll hear,

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<v Speaker 1>that was why Chris Stevens first came to Libya back

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and seven.

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<v Speaker 8>Moamar Kadafi's regime has shown excellent cooperation against terrorism and

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<v Speaker 8>dismantled its nuclear weapons.

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<v Speaker 1>Back then, I wasn't paying much attention to international news,

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<v Speaker 1>and I certainly wasn't paying attention to Libya. I was

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<v Speaker 1>just graduating from college in two thousand and seven. I

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<v Speaker 1>had heard of Gaddafi, but that was about it. I

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<v Speaker 1>was only slightly more tuned in in twenty eleven when

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<v Speaker 1>the Arab Spring swept into Libya and forced Gadafi out

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<v Speaker 1>of power as part of a US backed revolution.

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<v Speaker 9>The uprising against Gaddafi broke out in mid February, and

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<v Speaker 9>an anti regime protests quickly spread across the vast desert

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<v Speaker 9>country of six million people.

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<v Speaker 1>But even then I just wasn't that invested or informed.

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<v Speaker 1>So when I saw reports in September of twenty twelve

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<v Speaker 1>about an attack on a diplomatic compound in Benghazi, I

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<v Speaker 1>had no context for it, to be honest, I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even really think of benng Ghazi as a place. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>I experienced it as an American political scandal. I associated

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<v Speaker 1>the word Benghazi with a drawn out controversy that it

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<v Speaker 1>spawned endless conspiracy theories and captivated the Republican Party. Ben

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<v Speaker 1>Ghazi gaate the political cover up of some kind.

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<v Speaker 10>Of regime gigs lying about it.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it could be as bad as Watergate, but

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<v Speaker 4>nobody died in water Gate.

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<v Speaker 11>The White House can sign those people to death.

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<v Speaker 12>We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You

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<v Speaker 12>put two and two together.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to make this podcast because I had a

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<v Speaker 1>strong suspicion that I was missing something that by not

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<v Speaker 1>knowing what really happened in Benghazi or who it had

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<v Speaker 1>happened to, I was checked out on something really important,

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<v Speaker 1>because in retrospect, the Benghazi attack looks incredibly consequential for

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<v Speaker 1>Libya certainly, but also for the United States. Even though

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<v Speaker 1>the scandal has a reputation, especially among liberals, as a

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<v Speaker 1>nuisance and a distraction, it really changed history. Among other things,

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<v Speaker 1>it led directly to Hillary Clinton's email scandal. So if

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<v Speaker 1>you're someone who thinks Quinton's emails cost her the twenty

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<v Speaker 1>sixteen election, you could make the case that Benghazi took

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<v Speaker 1>down a presidency no less than Watergate did. What I've

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<v Speaker 1>realized after dozens of interviews with people who watched the

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<v Speaker 1>Benghazi story unfold up close, is that there are very

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<v Speaker 1>specific reasons why the scandal had such longevity. Together, they

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<v Speaker 1>tell a story about political warfare in America, how it

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<v Speaker 1>was waged in the pre Trump era through the media

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<v Speaker 1>and the justice system in Congress, and how it laid

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<v Speaker 1>the groundwork for the politics we live with today. But

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<v Speaker 1>Benghazi is not just an American story. It's also about

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<v Speaker 1>America's place in the world, and how, after eight years

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<v Speaker 1>of George W. Bush and the War on Terror, the

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<v Speaker 1>Obama administration set out to change the country's image abroad.

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<v Speaker 1>At the height of the scandal, a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>were asking, sometimes earnestly, often performatively, why did Ambassador Chris

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<v Speaker 1>Stevens die that night in Benghazi? And what I've learned

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<v Speaker 1>is there is an answer to that question, but all

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<v Speaker 1>the noise around the scandal made it incredibly hard to

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<v Speaker 1>see it clearly in real time. It turns out, to

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<v Speaker 1>understand the truth about Benghazi, you have to understand what

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<v Speaker 1>America was trying to achieved there. You have to know

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<v Speaker 1>what was supposed to happen in Benghazi in a perfect world,

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<v Speaker 1>instead of what did I'm Leon Napok from Prologue Projects

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<v Speaker 1>and Pushkin Industries. This is fiasco Benghazi.

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<v Speaker 13>Obama, who have four Americans to die in Benghazi?

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<v Speaker 1>There is a certain self fulfilling prophecy to outrage.

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<v Speaker 11>Wild conspiracy theory.

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<v Speaker 7>Intelligence officials acknowledged they originally got it wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>It was a fucking mess.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really hard to figure out what's going on.

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<v Speaker 10>They're shooting through the door.

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<v Speaker 6>I turned to the ambassador and said, if they blow

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<v Speaker 6>the locks, I'm gonna start shooting.

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<v Speaker 7>And when I die, I want you to keep on fighting.

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<v Speaker 3>You can't understand the story of Libya if you don't

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<v Speaker 3>know what's going on in Benghazi.

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<v Speaker 12>Omar Ghadavi is not leaving without a flight.

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<v Speaker 1>Episode one The Dictator, in which Muamar Gadafi and the

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<v Speaker 1>United States, after decades of hostility, discover they have a

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<v Speaker 1>common enemy. We'll be right back. Hussein el Shafi was

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<v Speaker 1>twenty years old when he was arrested in nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 1>nine for criticizing Muammar Gadafi.

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<v Speaker 9>I was in the fourth semester, like a second year

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<v Speaker 9>at that time, and they just knock on my door.

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<v Speaker 9>They put my hands in a handcuffs.

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<v Speaker 1>El Shafi was born and raised in Benghazi. At the

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<v Speaker 1>time of his arrest, he was studying engineering at a

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<v Speaker 1>local university.

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<v Speaker 9>They took me to one of those They call it

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<v Speaker 9>like Mora Bamni, which means the security district for the area.

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<v Speaker 1>El Shafi's crime was that he spoke up against the

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<v Speaker 1>regime during a student forum on the Green Book, Kadafi's

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<v Speaker 1>rambling manifesto.

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<v Speaker 11>He has compiled his thinking into a green book, a

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<v Speaker 11>blending of the Koran and Kadafi's own brooding thoughts.

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<v Speaker 9>He called the Anovaria Tarita means the third solution for

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<v Speaker 9>the world. You know, as a capitalism is dying and

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<v Speaker 9>the socialism is dying, I am the solution for the world.

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<v Speaker 1>El Shafi was required to attend the Green Book forum

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<v Speaker 1>in order to receive his degree, but he was tired

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<v Speaker 1>of having to pretend to take Gadafi seriously as a thinker,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was tired of the regime having control over

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<v Speaker 1>his mind.

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<v Speaker 9>There is no library in none of our Libyan cities.

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<v Speaker 9>If you want to read, the only books was brought

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<v Speaker 9>by Godavi's authority and put on the shelves.

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<v Speaker 10>No voice above Godav's voice, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And so el Shafi stood up in front of his

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<v Speaker 1>classmates and denounced Gaddafi for closing Libya off from the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the world, even the Soviet Union was starting

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<v Speaker 1>to open up. He said it was time for Libya

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<v Speaker 1>to change too. El Shafi was arrested at his home

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<v Speaker 1>a few days later. He was taken first by bus,

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<v Speaker 1>then by plane to Tripoli, about four hundred miles west

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<v Speaker 1>of Bengui. Zi Alshafi was blindfolded and handcuffed throughout the journey,

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<v Speaker 1>so when he was led into a prison cell, he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know where he was.

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<v Speaker 9>There were small holes in the walls between cells, so

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<v Speaker 9>I was able to talk to one of those people

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<v Speaker 9>he was before us. At where we are, said Unibuslim body,

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<v Speaker 9>welcome to Buslim.

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<v Speaker 1>Abu Salim was an infamous detention facility known for housing

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<v Speaker 1>political prisoners.

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<v Speaker 14>The dark heart of Gaddafi's oppression, Abu Salim prison the.

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<v Speaker 12>Name itself so frightening that Libyans avoid saying it.

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<v Speaker 1>Abu Salim was full of people the Gadafi regime considered enemies. Historically,

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<v Speaker 1>opposition to Gaddafi and Libya had been tied up with religion.

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<v Speaker 1>Although Gaddafi identified as Muslim, many Libyans came to see

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<v Speaker 1>him as an apostate advancing a secular ideology. These critics

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<v Speaker 1>included hardline Islamists who belonged to groups like the Libyan

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<v Speaker 1>Islamic Fighting Group, which supported the violent overthrow of the regime.

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<v Speaker 1>But there were also people like husay In El Shafi,

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<v Speaker 1>who opposed political violence and were unaffiliated with any organization.

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<v Speaker 9>He claims those are Islamists, but I was, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 9>was going to the mosque. I was very con conservative

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<v Speaker 9>at that time, but I did not belong to any group,

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<v Speaker 9>like an armed group or anything like this.

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<v Speaker 1>El Shafi says the Gaddafi regime branded anyone they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>like a radical Islamist and that many ordinary devout Muslims

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<v Speaker 1>like him were swept up in the dragnet.

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<v Speaker 9>He doesn't say I'm against Muslim, because he claims too

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<v Speaker 9>that he is a Muslim, but he claims that his

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<v Speaker 9>problem with the Islamic parties that was a pretext means

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<v Speaker 9>that he taken as a reason to kill or to

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<v Speaker 9>demolish his opponents.

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<v Speaker 1>It's worth saying here that the meaning of the term

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<v Speaker 1>Islamist depends on who you're talking to. At its most basic,

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<v Speaker 1>it refers to someone who subscribes to a political ideology

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<v Speaker 1>based on Islamic principles, and under that umbrella you can

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<v Speaker 1>find both avowed hardliners and moderates. The word Islamism was

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<v Speaker 1>introduced to English back in the nineteen eighties as a

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<v Speaker 1>less pejorative alternative to Islamic fundamentalism. Some people still use

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<v Speaker 1>it that way, as a neutral word that imagines Islamism

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<v Speaker 1>as just another political orientation. Others associate Islamism with violence

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<v Speaker 1>and intolerance. For them, an Islamist government based on any

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<v Speaker 1>form of Sharia or Islamic law is inherently undemocratic. At

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<v Speaker 1>Abu Salim, Hussein el Shafi was lucky to be classified

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<v Speaker 1>as a low risk inmate and kept separate from those

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<v Speaker 1>suspected of being violent extremists. Still, he was beaten and

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<v Speaker 1>tortured and never given any indication of when he would

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<v Speaker 1>be released. Other former inmates from Abu Sulim have reported

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<v Speaker 1>being attacked by dog, subjected to deafening nightly broadcasts of

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<v Speaker 1>Gaddafi's speeches, and prodded with electric cables. When I interviewed

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<v Speaker 1>El Shafi, he had to take a break because the

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<v Speaker 1>phone was hurting his ear. It had been mutilated at

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<v Speaker 1>Abu Sulim.

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<v Speaker 9>I'll try to use this ear, not that ear, because

0:13:25.670 --> 0:13:28.231
<v Speaker 9>this one cut in the jail oh my god, have

0:13:28.231 --> 0:13:28.991
<v Speaker 9>did you see my ear?

0:13:29.070 --> 0:13:29.310
<v Speaker 11>Yeah?

0:13:29.391 --> 0:13:33.670
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, yeah, it's touching the thing, you know. Sorry by that.

0:13:35.830 --> 0:13:39.870
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety five, about six years into El Shafi's imprisonment,

0:13:40.631 --> 0:13:44.150
<v Speaker 1>life at Abu Sulim became more cruel and more isolating.

0:13:45.231 --> 0:13:48.231
<v Speaker 1>It happened following a jail break, after which inmates were

0:13:48.231 --> 0:13:51.590
<v Speaker 1>forbidden from going outside and medical care was withheld from

0:13:51.590 --> 0:13:52.430
<v Speaker 1>those who needed it.

0:13:53.111 --> 0:13:57.151
<v Speaker 9>Things getting worse and worse and worse. Some people died,

0:13:57.271 --> 0:14:01.550
<v Speaker 9>Some people has cancers, you name it, heart pressure, and

0:14:01.871 --> 0:14:03.950
<v Speaker 9>some people has like stomach issues.

0:14:04.631 --> 0:14:07.630
<v Speaker 10>Some of them, they said, were dying slowly guys.

0:14:12.710 --> 0:14:16.111
<v Speaker 1>As conditions worsened, a group of inmates planned a protest,

0:14:16.790 --> 0:14:20.351
<v Speaker 1>and on June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety six, they overpowered

0:14:20.351 --> 0:14:23.191
<v Speaker 1>a guard, took his keys, and started letting people out

0:14:23.231 --> 0:14:27.391
<v Speaker 1>of their cells. In the ensuing chaos, the prison guards

0:14:27.391 --> 0:14:33.271
<v Speaker 1>reportedly killed seven inmates. Later that day, Gaddafi's intelligence chief

0:14:33.431 --> 0:14:37.351
<v Speaker 1>arrived at the prison to survey the situation. Before leaving,

0:14:37.590 --> 0:14:40.431
<v Speaker 1>he promised a delegation of inmates that conditions at Abu

0:14:40.431 --> 0:14:43.871
<v Speaker 1>Sulim would improve and that those who needed medical attention

0:14:43.951 --> 0:14:48.551
<v Speaker 1>would receive it instead. The following morning, the prisoners of

0:14:48.590 --> 0:14:52.111
<v Speaker 1>Abu Sulim, More than a thousand of them were marched

0:14:52.151 --> 0:14:56.991
<v Speaker 1>into the courtyards adjacent to their cell blocks. Elshafi remembers

0:14:56.991 --> 0:15:00.071
<v Speaker 1>being taken outside and being ordered to lie face down

0:15:00.151 --> 0:15:00.711
<v Speaker 1>on the ground.

0:15:01.431 --> 0:15:05.711
<v Speaker 9>They came in the morning, they said okay, room by rum,

0:15:06.271 --> 0:15:07.631
<v Speaker 9>they take them out.

0:15:08.391 --> 0:15:11.591
<v Speaker 10>They tied their hands and the turn around facing the

0:15:11.590 --> 0:15:12.511
<v Speaker 10>wall in the yard.

0:15:13.311 --> 0:15:16.551
<v Speaker 1>El Shaffie estimates that there were about thirteen hundred men

0:15:16.710 --> 0:15:18.711
<v Speaker 1>lined up in the prison yards when he started to

0:15:18.751 --> 0:15:19.391
<v Speaker 1>hear shooting.

0:15:20.511 --> 0:15:23.711
<v Speaker 9>My friend is Cardiolois now in Ireland, his named Sab.

0:15:24.231 --> 0:15:27.671
<v Speaker 9>He was holding my hand tight. I said no, I said,

0:15:27.830 --> 0:15:28.511
<v Speaker 9>the care.

0:15:28.391 --> 0:15:28.911
<v Speaker 10>Us, that's all.

0:15:28.951 --> 0:15:31.631
<v Speaker 9>They're not gonna kill them all. They want to scare us.

0:15:31.871 --> 0:15:34.231
<v Speaker 9>They try to teach us a lesson, you know. He said,

0:15:35.951 --> 0:15:40.230
<v Speaker 9>three for our friends, their souls raising up the gun.

0:15:41.031 --> 0:15:44.071
<v Speaker 1>Al Shaffie and his friend, whom I also interviewed, didn't

0:15:44.111 --> 0:15:46.870
<v Speaker 1>know if they were next, but from the sound of

0:15:46.911 --> 0:15:49.711
<v Speaker 1>the gunfire they could tell the guards were moving from

0:15:49.710 --> 0:15:51.311
<v Speaker 1>one section of the prison to another.

0:15:51.511 --> 0:15:58.591
<v Speaker 9>The shootings continued for at least three and a half hours.

0:15:58.871 --> 0:16:07.191
<v Speaker 10>The last shot was individuals like they're finishing up, you know.

0:16:08.710 --> 0:16:10.831
<v Speaker 1>El Shaffie thinks he and the other men in his

0:16:10.871 --> 0:16:14.031
<v Speaker 1>cell block were spared because of their low risk classification.

0:16:15.311 --> 0:16:19.031
<v Speaker 1>He says there were only about three hundred survivors. After

0:16:19.031 --> 0:16:22.031
<v Speaker 1>the shooting ended, prison guards enlisted some of them to

0:16:22.071 --> 0:16:24.551
<v Speaker 1>help clean the watches and rings. They were taking off

0:16:24.551 --> 0:16:25.551
<v Speaker 1>the bodies.

0:16:26.511 --> 0:16:28.951
<v Speaker 9>And they have plots info the wear on them. And

0:16:29.590 --> 0:16:32.511
<v Speaker 9>I said, oh my gosh, they're sitting. They have rings

0:16:32.551 --> 0:16:34.991
<v Speaker 9>and they watches, Oh my gosh.

0:16:36.191 --> 0:16:39.631
<v Speaker 1>For years, the massacre at Abu Salim was kept secret

0:16:39.671 --> 0:16:43.351
<v Speaker 1>from the world, even in Libya. It was nothing more

0:16:43.431 --> 0:16:44.031
<v Speaker 1>than a rumor.

0:16:45.830 --> 0:16:46.791
<v Speaker 10>No one knows nothing.

0:16:46.911 --> 0:16:50.791
<v Speaker 9>All well, they know people heard shooting and they hit

0:16:50.951 --> 0:16:55.590
<v Speaker 9>sirens that night. And some of them they said they

0:16:55.671 --> 0:16:57.911
<v Speaker 9>kill him. Some of them they said, no, he just

0:16:57.991 --> 0:17:00.751
<v Speaker 9>killed some of them. No one knows anything.

0:17:02.391 --> 0:17:04.751
<v Speaker 1>The families of those who had been killed were not

0:17:04.791 --> 0:17:08.430
<v Speaker 1>informed that their loved ones were dead. Instead, they were

0:17:08.471 --> 0:17:11.711
<v Speaker 1>merely told that they could no longer be at them.

0:17:11.871 --> 0:17:15.390
<v Speaker 1>In many cases, family members continued bringing letters and food

0:17:15.390 --> 0:17:17.551
<v Speaker 1>to the prison and leaving them with the guards, who

0:17:17.630 --> 0:17:22.551
<v Speaker 1>said nothing. According to al Shafi, new inmates who arrived

0:17:22.551 --> 0:17:25.311
<v Speaker 1>at Abu Sulim in the years after the massacre would

0:17:25.311 --> 0:17:29.111
<v Speaker 1>find bullets lodged in the prison yard walls.

0:17:34.231 --> 0:17:34.711
<v Speaker 9>There is a.

0:17:34.671 --> 0:17:37.431
<v Speaker 15>Figure emerging in the Middle East. He is Colonel Muammar

0:17:37.511 --> 0:17:40.470
<v Speaker 15>El Kadafi, and he wants to unify the Arabs and

0:17:40.551 --> 0:17:43.710
<v Speaker 15>restore the Arab Crescent of Nations to their ancient prestige

0:17:43.751 --> 0:17:44.551
<v Speaker 15>and power.

0:17:44.630 --> 0:17:45.471
<v Speaker 10>In the Shaving.

0:17:46.431 --> 0:17:50.190
<v Speaker 1>Before Mumar Gadafi built prisons for his domestic enemies, he

0:17:50.231 --> 0:17:52.311
<v Speaker 1>made a name for himself by standing up to his

0:17:52.390 --> 0:17:56.471
<v Speaker 1>foreign ones. Gaddafi came to power in nineteen sixty nine,

0:17:56.870 --> 0:18:00.110
<v Speaker 1>replacing the Western backed king Idris by staging a military

0:18:00.150 --> 0:18:04.791
<v Speaker 1>coup in Benghazi. Gaddafi was just twenty seven years old,

0:18:05.071 --> 0:18:08.551
<v Speaker 1>a handsome young army officer who projected strength and vigor,

0:18:08.951 --> 0:18:10.751
<v Speaker 1>and who was embraced by many Libyans.

0:18:11.110 --> 0:18:14.390
<v Speaker 14>Olibya was an obscure desert kingdom. Today it is on

0:18:14.431 --> 0:18:17.191
<v Speaker 14>the center stage of Middle East politics, and the matter

0:18:17.231 --> 0:18:18.910
<v Speaker 14>responsible is under thirty.

0:18:19.110 --> 0:18:22.830
<v Speaker 11>A strong and asymmetric cancerness like the anti hero movie

0:18:22.911 --> 0:18:23.551
<v Speaker 11>stars of the.

0:18:23.630 --> 0:18:27.191
<v Speaker 1>Sixties, Kaddafi, who was born in a Bedouin tent off

0:18:27.231 --> 0:18:30.471
<v Speaker 1>the Mediterranean coast, positioned himself as a representative of the

0:18:30.511 --> 0:18:33.751
<v Speaker 1>Arab world and a challenger to Western imperialism.

0:18:34.110 --> 0:18:37.390
<v Speaker 13>A revolutionary who believes people should rule themselves, not be

0:18:37.471 --> 0:18:38.230
<v Speaker 13>ruled by government.

0:18:38.311 --> 0:18:40.870
<v Speaker 15>If those ambitions seem grandiose for the young leader of

0:18:40.870 --> 0:18:43.350
<v Speaker 15>a desert land of a mere two million people, it

0:18:43.390 --> 0:18:46.991
<v Speaker 15>should be quickly pointed out that Kadafi has one powerful asset.

0:18:47.071 --> 0:18:54.031
<v Speaker 14>Money Oil money makes Libya's young leftist strong man a

0:18:54.191 --> 0:18:55.910
<v Speaker 14>power in the Arab world.

0:18:56.271 --> 0:18:58.751
<v Speaker 1>In a move that defined his early years in power,

0:18:59.071 --> 0:19:02.831
<v Speaker 1>Kaddafi forced Western oil companies to renegotiate their export agreements

0:19:02.870 --> 0:19:03.590
<v Speaker 1>with Libya.

0:19:03.630 --> 0:19:07.431
<v Speaker 14>In March, Kaddafi's deputy prime minister negotiated a new agreement

0:19:07.471 --> 0:19:11.230
<v Speaker 14>with Western oil companies. Libya is now making twice as

0:19:11.311 --> 0:19:13.590
<v Speaker 14>much money from oil as when Gadaffi and his young

0:19:13.630 --> 0:19:16.071
<v Speaker 14>officers overthrow King DRIs two years ago.

0:19:16.630 --> 0:19:19.510
<v Speaker 1>The standoff ended up shifting the balance of power towards

0:19:19.551 --> 0:19:22.791
<v Speaker 1>Arab countries like Libya that possessed huge amounts of oil,

0:19:23.350 --> 0:19:25.751
<v Speaker 1>and away from Western countries that depended on it.

0:19:26.071 --> 0:19:29.150
<v Speaker 14>Now, Libya is the world's sixth largest producer of oil

0:19:29.271 --> 0:19:32.991
<v Speaker 14>the fourth largest exporter. Enough oil will be shipped this

0:19:33.110 --> 0:19:36.071
<v Speaker 14>year to earn Libya more than two billion dollars.

0:19:37.431 --> 0:19:40.431
<v Speaker 1>Starting in the nineteen seventies, Gaddafi put his oil money

0:19:40.471 --> 0:19:43.590
<v Speaker 1>to work, providing training and weapons for rebel groups around

0:19:43.630 --> 0:19:47.870
<v Speaker 1>the world. He supported Latin American leftists like the Sandinistas,

0:19:48.110 --> 0:19:52.031
<v Speaker 1>the PLO, South African Anti apartheid movement, and the IRA

0:19:52.271 --> 0:19:53.191
<v Speaker 1>in Northern Ireland.

0:19:53.711 --> 0:19:56.710
<v Speaker 15>Each year, the IRA collects a check for two million

0:19:56.791 --> 0:19:59.751
<v Speaker 15>dollars from one of Gadaf's money managers in Tripoli.

0:20:00.471 --> 0:20:02.871
<v Speaker 10>Round the globe, dozens of scenes like.

0:20:02.870 --> 0:20:06.110
<v Speaker 15>This are being enacted for the benefit of Gadaf's crusade.

0:20:06.751 --> 0:20:10.350
<v Speaker 1>According to one estimate, more than thirty different organizations sent

0:20:10.390 --> 0:20:12.631
<v Speaker 1>fighters to train in Libya at various points.

0:20:13.071 --> 0:20:16.951
<v Speaker 15>Libya's strong man leader Mumar Khadaffi, spends an estimated two

0:20:17.071 --> 0:20:21.271
<v Speaker 15>hundred million dollars a year arming and training terrorists and insurgents.

0:20:21.870 --> 0:20:24.671
<v Speaker 1>Gaddafi also spent a lot of money building up his

0:20:24.711 --> 0:20:26.551
<v Speaker 1>own Arsenal her capital.

0:20:26.630 --> 0:20:29.511
<v Speaker 16>Libya under Gaddaffi in the seven sies was the biggest

0:20:29.511 --> 0:20:32.630
<v Speaker 16>purchaser of weapons in the world. He was like a

0:20:32.630 --> 0:20:33.791
<v Speaker 16>compulsive shopper.

0:20:34.231 --> 0:20:37.630
<v Speaker 1>This is Lindsay Hilsom, a reporter for Channel four News

0:20:37.671 --> 0:20:40.910
<v Speaker 1>in the UK who has covered Libya extensively. In her

0:20:40.951 --> 0:20:44.870
<v Speaker 1>book Sandstorm, Hilsomon describes how Mumar Gadafi came to loom

0:20:44.911 --> 0:20:48.630
<v Speaker 1>over the American imagination as a symbol of violence and chaos.

0:20:48.791 --> 0:20:52.710
<v Speaker 13>He's the ultimate villain, the godfather of international terrorism, a

0:20:52.751 --> 0:20:56.951
<v Speaker 13>one dimensional, erratic, irrational, unbalanced two bit dictate.

0:20:56.711 --> 0:21:00.631
<v Speaker 5>A central character in real world acts of terror, as well.

0:21:00.431 --> 0:21:02.751
<v Speaker 8>As the star of a number of best selling thrillers

0:21:02.791 --> 0:21:05.431
<v Speaker 8>based on the premise that one day he would get

0:21:05.431 --> 0:21:05.830
<v Speaker 8>the bomb.

0:21:05.991 --> 0:21:08.791
<v Speaker 15>He's very volatile, an opportunistic.

0:21:10.110 --> 0:21:13.511
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen eighty one, Newsweek put Gadafi on its cover

0:21:13.671 --> 0:21:16.551
<v Speaker 1>under the headline the most dangerous man in the World.

0:21:17.551 --> 0:21:19.990
<v Speaker 1>Technically there was a question mark in the headline, and

0:21:20.110 --> 0:21:23.230
<v Speaker 1>if you read the article, the answer was maybe. But

0:21:23.630 --> 0:21:27.431
<v Speaker 1>the cover accurately captured Gaddafi's reputation in America.

0:21:27.671 --> 0:21:30.830
<v Speaker 13>He has three obsessions. Hatred of Israel, hatred of the

0:21:30.911 --> 0:21:33.711
<v Speaker 13>United States for supporting Israel, and a dream of a

0:21:33.830 --> 0:21:35.191
<v Speaker 13>united Arab world.

0:21:35.751 --> 0:21:39.710
<v Speaker 1>Libya became synonymous with terrorism. If you remember Back to

0:21:39.751 --> 0:21:42.870
<v Speaker 1>the Future, which came out in nineteen eighty five, Doc

0:21:42.911 --> 0:21:46.551
<v Speaker 1>Brown is pursued by crazed terrorists from Libya who want

0:21:46.551 --> 0:21:48.830
<v Speaker 1>to kill him for selling them a phony nuclear bomb.

0:21:49.431 --> 0:21:51.511
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, they found me.

0:21:51.551 --> 0:21:53.671
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how they found who?

0:21:53.671 --> 0:21:54.111
<v Speaker 2>Who?

0:21:54.590 --> 0:21:55.271
<v Speaker 8>What do you think?

0:21:58.071 --> 0:22:01.910
<v Speaker 1>Gaddafi became even more closely associated with terrorism in nineteen

0:22:01.911 --> 0:22:04.791
<v Speaker 1>eighty six, when his regime was implicated in a bombing

0:22:04.870 --> 0:22:07.390
<v Speaker 1>in Berlin. Reporter Lindsay Hilsome.

0:22:07.431 --> 0:22:13.151
<v Speaker 16>Again in nineteen eighty six, he provided the weapons, training

0:22:13.390 --> 0:22:17.951
<v Speaker 16>and his agents attacked a belgiscotheque in Berlin.

0:22:18.231 --> 0:22:19.271
<v Speaker 17>For the second time.

0:22:19.311 --> 0:22:21.791
<v Speaker 13>This week, Americans had been the victims of a terrorist

0:22:21.791 --> 0:22:22.670
<v Speaker 13>attack in Europe.

0:22:22.711 --> 0:22:25.311
<v Speaker 17>This time the target was a nightclub in West Berlin,

0:22:25.390 --> 0:22:28.390
<v Speaker 17>a favorite of American soldiers. Little was left of the

0:22:28.431 --> 0:22:29.471
<v Speaker 17>West Berlin Disco.

0:22:29.870 --> 0:22:32.350
<v Speaker 15>Over one hundred and fifty were injured, about seventy of

0:22:32.390 --> 0:22:33.431
<v Speaker 15>them American.

0:22:33.071 --> 0:22:36.991
<v Speaker 16>Servicemen, and it was quite clear from very early on

0:22:37.191 --> 0:22:39.751
<v Speaker 16>that it was the Libyans behind that attack.

0:22:40.071 --> 0:22:42.751
<v Speaker 8>Police are looking for a pattern to support their belief

0:22:42.911 --> 0:22:46.071
<v Speaker 8>that Libyan leader Colonel Muamar Kadaffi sponsored the attack.

0:22:46.911 --> 0:22:49.670
<v Speaker 1>Two Americans were killed and seventy nine were injured in

0:22:49.671 --> 0:22:53.511
<v Speaker 1>the Berlin attack. Ronald Reagan responded with air strikes on

0:22:53.551 --> 0:22:54.870
<v Speaker 1>Tripoli and Benghazi.

0:22:55.630 --> 0:22:58.830
<v Speaker 4>At seven o'clock this evening Eastern time, air and naval

0:22:58.870 --> 0:23:02.031
<v Speaker 4>forces of the United States launched a series of strikes

0:23:02.071 --> 0:23:07.271
<v Speaker 4>against the headquarters, terrorist facilities and military assets that support

0:23:07.350 --> 0:23:09.511
<v Speaker 4>Muhama Kadafi's subversive activities.

0:23:11.630 --> 0:23:14.391
<v Speaker 1>The bombs were not enough to convince Gaddafi to retreat,

0:23:15.110 --> 0:23:18.710
<v Speaker 1>Neither were the economic sanctions that Reagan had imposed on him.

0:23:18.991 --> 0:23:22.350
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen eighty eight, Gaddafi was accused of another major

0:23:22.471 --> 0:23:25.951
<v Speaker 1>terrorist attack, this one targeting a passenger jet flying from

0:23:25.991 --> 0:23:29.390
<v Speaker 1>London to New York. As PanAm Flight one oh three

0:23:29.551 --> 0:23:33.350
<v Speaker 1>passed over the town of Lockerby, Scotland, a bomb exploded

0:23:33.431 --> 0:23:34.590
<v Speaker 1>and the plane went down.

0:23:34.911 --> 0:23:38.591
<v Speaker 6>In a few short, violent moments, two hundred and seventy

0:23:38.671 --> 0:23:43.670
<v Speaker 6>people died. People from twenty one countries filled these coffins,

0:23:44.071 --> 0:23:46.431
<v Speaker 6>one hundred and eighty nine of them were American.

0:23:46.830 --> 0:23:49.950
<v Speaker 1>Gaddafi denied having anything to do with the Lockerby bombing,

0:23:50.390 --> 0:23:53.590
<v Speaker 1>but when evidence of Libyan involvement was uncovered, the attack

0:23:53.751 --> 0:23:55.950
<v Speaker 1>came to define him in the eyes of the West.

0:23:56.350 --> 0:23:59.430
<v Speaker 13>Is an egomaniac who would trigger World War three to

0:23:59.471 --> 0:24:03.831
<v Speaker 13>make the headlines, is the world's principal terrorist and trainer

0:24:03.870 --> 0:24:06.190
<v Speaker 13>of terrorists, and dangerous to peace.

0:24:12.991 --> 0:24:17.031
<v Speaker 1>As Gaddafi's profile rose around the world, the violence he

0:24:17.071 --> 0:24:20.910
<v Speaker 1>perpetrated against foreign targets overshadowed his brutal repression of the

0:24:20.951 --> 0:24:21.670
<v Speaker 1>Libyan people.

0:24:22.431 --> 0:24:27.231
<v Speaker 16>The violence was very visible to ordinary Libyans because they

0:24:27.231 --> 0:24:31.470
<v Speaker 16>did see people hanging in the streets, and everybody knew

0:24:31.590 --> 0:24:34.830
<v Speaker 16>somebody who had a relative who had been hanged or

0:24:34.870 --> 0:24:38.551
<v Speaker 16>who had been imprisoned. But it didn't seem to be

0:24:39.071 --> 0:24:42.950
<v Speaker 16>very obvious to people outside Libya because Libya was a

0:24:42.991 --> 0:24:47.950
<v Speaker 16>closed country and very few people were allowed into Libya

0:24:48.031 --> 0:24:49.311
<v Speaker 16>from the outside.

0:24:49.951 --> 0:24:53.391
<v Speaker 1>The regime's secrecy makes it difficult to know exactly how

0:24:53.431 --> 0:24:58.190
<v Speaker 1>common public executions were, but there are documented instances of

0:24:58.191 --> 0:25:01.670
<v Speaker 1>dissidence in Libya being hanged or executed by firing squad

0:25:01.830 --> 0:25:05.951
<v Speaker 1>in the seventies, eighties and nineties. Hussein al Shafi told

0:25:05.991 --> 0:25:08.630
<v Speaker 1>me he remembers hearing about hangings before he was sent

0:25:08.671 --> 0:25:09.710
<v Speaker 1>to Abu Salim.

0:25:10.110 --> 0:25:14.150
<v Speaker 9>I remember in nineteen eighty four, Ladafi Wah used to

0:25:14.191 --> 0:25:18.311
<v Speaker 9>hang any opposition groups, you know, on the like a

0:25:18.350 --> 0:25:21.910
<v Speaker 9>basketball stadium, you know, like arena we have here, like

0:25:22.031 --> 0:25:24.630
<v Speaker 9>Spectrum center, you know. Can you imagine you wake up

0:25:24.671 --> 0:25:28.071
<v Speaker 9>in the morning, your governor taking people, hang them in

0:25:28.110 --> 0:25:31.710
<v Speaker 9>the stadium in front of everybody. He did this before

0:25:32.231 --> 0:25:35.151
<v Speaker 9>many times in the college in the university Libia university,

0:25:35.191 --> 0:25:36.551
<v Speaker 9>like in Trebly or Benghazi.

0:25:37.271 --> 0:25:38.350
<v Speaker 10>He takes them and.

0:25:38.311 --> 0:25:41.630
<v Speaker 9>They hang them and he kills the students because they

0:25:41.671 --> 0:25:43.471
<v Speaker 9>are a part of the opposition group.

0:25:43.791 --> 0:25:47.511
<v Speaker 1>Alshafi never attended an execution in person, but he did

0:25:47.511 --> 0:25:48.671
<v Speaker 1>see it happen on TV.

0:25:49.071 --> 0:25:51.791
<v Speaker 9>I see this once and then I go cry. You know,

0:25:51.791 --> 0:25:54.511
<v Speaker 9>I go hiding some in a room cry. I see look,

0:25:54.551 --> 0:25:59.110
<v Speaker 9>he's hanging people, and the crowd, the crowd supporting this.

0:25:59.791 --> 0:26:03.231
<v Speaker 10>Oh, Gadaffi, yeah, your them, call them.

0:26:03.511 --> 0:26:06.511
<v Speaker 1>The nineteen ninety six massacre at Abu Salim is now

0:26:06.551 --> 0:26:10.791
<v Speaker 1>considered Gaddafi's most brutal act, the pinnacle of his campaign

0:26:10.830 --> 0:26:14.511
<v Speaker 1>of violence against the Libyan people, but when it first happened,

0:26:14.630 --> 0:26:17.711
<v Speaker 1>there was so little information about it that few took notice.

0:26:18.830 --> 0:26:21.830
<v Speaker 1>Reuters did report that some kind of deadly clash between

0:26:21.870 --> 0:26:24.791
<v Speaker 1>inmates and guards had taken place at the prison. An

0:26:24.791 --> 0:26:28.791
<v Speaker 1>Amnesty International called on Gadafi to order an investigation, but

0:26:28.830 --> 0:26:32.431
<v Speaker 1>that effort didn't go anywhere. Kadafi did not even acknowledge

0:26:32.471 --> 0:26:35.791
<v Speaker 1>the massacre, and the bodies of the dead were reportedly

0:26:35.870 --> 0:26:38.150
<v Speaker 1>dumped in a mass grave that has never been found.

0:26:42.390 --> 0:26:45.311
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't until four years later that el Shafi was

0:26:45.350 --> 0:26:49.871
<v Speaker 1>released from Abu Salim. It happened on June first, two thousand,

0:26:50.511 --> 0:26:53.870
<v Speaker 1>more than a decade after his arrest. He was never

0:26:53.911 --> 0:26:57.231
<v Speaker 1>told why, just as he was never formally charged or

0:26:57.271 --> 0:27:00.951
<v Speaker 1>convicted of anything in the first place. Elshafi went home

0:27:00.991 --> 0:27:04.710
<v Speaker 1>to Benghazi and started trying to get a passport. He

0:27:04.751 --> 0:27:08.110
<v Speaker 1>wanted to leave Libya and escape the Gadafi regime for good.

0:27:08.751 --> 0:27:12.350
<v Speaker 1>The passport still hadn't come when Elshafi started seeing reports

0:27:12.511 --> 0:27:15.830
<v Speaker 1>that world leaders, including from the United States, were changing

0:27:15.830 --> 0:27:19.271
<v Speaker 1>their stance on Gadafi and inviting him in from the cold.

0:27:19.551 --> 0:27:23.071
<v Speaker 17>The orchestrated announcements of the deal in Britain and Washington

0:27:23.350 --> 0:27:26.991
<v Speaker 17>portrayed Gaddafi's change of heart as the result of President

0:27:26.991 --> 0:27:29.830
<v Speaker 17>Bush's get them before they get you doctrine.

0:27:30.271 --> 0:27:33.071
<v Speaker 1>The man who had imprisoned El Shafi and killed so

0:27:33.231 --> 0:27:37.711
<v Speaker 1>many of his fellow inmates was being officially rehabilitated. After

0:27:37.791 --> 0:27:40.830
<v Speaker 1>decades of railing against the imperialist powers of Europe and

0:27:40.870 --> 0:27:45.071
<v Speaker 1>the United States, Gaddafi was finding common cause with the West.

0:27:45.191 --> 0:27:48.870
<v Speaker 8>American oil companies and the Libyan government could benefit from

0:27:48.951 --> 0:27:51.911
<v Speaker 8>Libya's newly announced plan to give up trying to develop

0:27:51.991 --> 0:27:53.311
<v Speaker 8>weapons of mass destruction.

0:27:53.791 --> 0:27:56.630
<v Speaker 1>El Shafi remembers being enraged when he heard that one

0:27:56.671 --> 0:27:59.311
<v Speaker 1>of Gaddafi's sons was coming to the United States for

0:27:59.390 --> 0:28:03.231
<v Speaker 1>meetings at the State Department. Alshafi assumed that it meant

0:28:03.231 --> 0:28:05.951
<v Speaker 1>the US was going to start selling Gaddafi weapons.

0:28:06.191 --> 0:28:08.950
<v Speaker 10>I said, fuck politics, fuck the money people.

0:28:09.031 --> 0:28:14.751
<v Speaker 9>First, if you Invagadavi sons and you give him whapons,

0:28:15.551 --> 0:28:19.591
<v Speaker 9>US administration as a color seem freaking Goadavi.

0:28:25.791 --> 0:28:29.470
<v Speaker 1>The process of normalizing relations between Gaddafi's Libya and the

0:28:29.551 --> 0:28:32.791
<v Speaker 1>United States began towards the end of the Clinton administration.

0:28:33.630 --> 0:28:37.510
<v Speaker 1>Gaddafi was desperate to have sanctions against Libya lifted, and

0:28:37.630 --> 0:28:40.831
<v Speaker 1>as a first step, he agreed in nineteen ninety nine

0:28:41.271 --> 0:28:44.431
<v Speaker 1>to surrender two Libyans who were suspected of carrying out

0:28:44.471 --> 0:28:48.151
<v Speaker 1>the Locker bebombing. But it wasn't until the Bush years

0:28:48.271 --> 0:28:50.471
<v Speaker 1>and the start of the War on Terror that the

0:28:50.551 --> 0:28:54.151
<v Speaker 1>relationship between the US and Libya really started to improve.

0:28:55.991 --> 0:28:57.991
<v Speaker 1>In the wake of the invasion of Iraq in the

0:28:58.031 --> 0:29:02.511
<v Speaker 1>fall of Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi was spooked. He became convinced

0:29:02.551 --> 0:29:05.431
<v Speaker 1>that if he didn't make certain concessions, he would be next,

0:29:06.511 --> 0:29:08.951
<v Speaker 1>and so after months of secret talks with the Bush

0:29:08.951 --> 0:29:12.431
<v Speaker 1>White House, Kadafi agreed to give up his nascent nuclear

0:29:12.431 --> 0:29:15.671
<v Speaker 1>program and to allow weapons inspectors into Libya.

0:29:15.791 --> 0:29:18.631
<v Speaker 4>Libya's surprise announcement that it will give up its weapons

0:29:18.671 --> 0:29:21.471
<v Speaker 4>of mass destruction is reverberating worldwide.

0:29:21.551 --> 0:29:24.351
<v Speaker 1>The Bush administration hailed it as a diplomatic triumph.

0:29:24.551 --> 0:29:28.751
<v Speaker 4>Today in Tripoli, Libya has begun the process of rejoining

0:29:28.871 --> 0:29:32.911
<v Speaker 4>the Community of Nations. Its good faith will be returned.

0:29:34.351 --> 0:29:37.511
<v Speaker 18>Without the Iraq War, the trajectory of the US Libya

0:29:37.551 --> 0:29:40.111
<v Speaker 18>relationship would have been much much different.

0:29:40.591 --> 0:29:43.551
<v Speaker 1>This is Ethan Chorin. He was sent to Tripoli by

0:29:43.551 --> 0:29:45.991
<v Speaker 1>the State Department in two thousand and four, who was

0:29:46.031 --> 0:29:48.431
<v Speaker 1>his first posting as a member of the Foreign Service.

0:29:48.951 --> 0:29:52.311
<v Speaker 18>I had a great privilege of being one of the

0:29:52.671 --> 0:29:55.911
<v Speaker 18>few diplomats who was sent to Libya to help open

0:29:55.991 --> 0:29:57.991
<v Speaker 18>up what would eventually become the Embassy.

0:29:58.591 --> 0:30:01.470
<v Speaker 1>Chorin, the author of a book about Libya called Exit.

0:30:01.511 --> 0:30:04.111
<v Speaker 1>The colonel explained to me that making a deal with

0:30:04.191 --> 0:30:07.591
<v Speaker 1>Kaddafi was specifically attractive to the Bush White House as

0:30:07.631 --> 0:30:09.470
<v Speaker 1>a follow up to the invasion of Iraq.

0:30:10.191 --> 0:30:15.351
<v Speaker 18>The neo conservative cabel in Washington looking for the next move, essentially,

0:30:15.391 --> 0:30:19.391
<v Speaker 18>and they were weren't interested in Kadafi until essentially it

0:30:19.471 --> 0:30:21.631
<v Speaker 18>dawned on a few people that the relationship with Kadafi

0:30:21.671 --> 0:30:24.591
<v Speaker 18>could actually solve several of the problems that the Iraq

0:30:24.671 --> 0:30:27.470
<v Speaker 18>War was not solving, as in, there were no weapons

0:30:27.471 --> 0:30:31.871
<v Speaker 18>of mass destruction found in Iraq, but Kadafi ostensibly had

0:30:32.071 --> 0:30:34.431
<v Speaker 18>something that you could call such a program, and he

0:30:34.511 --> 0:30:35.431
<v Speaker 18>was willing to give it up.

0:30:36.151 --> 0:30:39.711
<v Speaker 1>Chorn's point here was that Kadafi's weapons program was extremely

0:30:39.791 --> 0:30:43.831
<v Speaker 1>rudimentary and that sacrificing it was mostly a symbolic gesture

0:30:45.031 --> 0:30:47.591
<v Speaker 1>for the Bush White House. The more practical benefits of

0:30:47.631 --> 0:30:51.551
<v Speaker 1>reconciling with Kadafi were one that American companies could start

0:30:51.591 --> 0:30:55.190
<v Speaker 1>doing business in Libya, and two that the Kadafi regime

0:30:55.351 --> 0:30:57.271
<v Speaker 1>could be helpful in the war on terror.

0:30:59.991 --> 0:31:03.951
<v Speaker 8>Kadafi says, intelligence agencies in Libya and the US are

0:31:04.031 --> 0:31:05.951
<v Speaker 8>exchanging information.

0:31:06.031 --> 0:31:08.791
<v Speaker 1>The terrorists America was now hunting in the Middle East

0:31:08.831 --> 0:31:14.111
<v Speaker 1>and North Africa. Daffi's longtime enemies too. All through the nineties,

0:31:14.151 --> 0:31:16.631
<v Speaker 1>he had been at war with Islamist groups suspected of

0:31:16.671 --> 0:31:20.511
<v Speaker 1>having connections to Al Qaida. In fact, in nineteen ninety eight,

0:31:20.751 --> 0:31:23.751
<v Speaker 1>the Gaddafi regime had issued an Interpol arrest warrant for

0:31:23.751 --> 0:31:26.190
<v Speaker 1>Oslam Bin Laden on the basis that al Qaeda had

0:31:26.231 --> 0:31:30.151
<v Speaker 1>been working with radicals in Libya. Reporter Lindsay Hilsom.

0:31:30.151 --> 0:31:35.671
<v Speaker 16>Again, Gaddaffi became afraid of the Islamists, and a lot

0:31:35.711 --> 0:31:39.831
<v Speaker 16>of Islamists went to Afghanistan and they joined al Qaeda,

0:31:40.031 --> 0:31:43.710
<v Speaker 16>and they became very senior in al Qaeda. Their aim

0:31:43.911 --> 0:31:47.190
<v Speaker 16>was to overthrow Gadaffi. But they were part of this

0:31:47.391 --> 0:31:52.191
<v Speaker 16>international Jihat, and of course that was the international Gia

0:31:52.191 --> 0:31:54.911
<v Speaker 16>had which you know on nine to eleven flew into

0:31:54.911 --> 0:31:57.311
<v Speaker 16>the Twin Towers and murdered all the Americans.

0:31:59.151 --> 0:32:02.791
<v Speaker 1>It was a convenient alliance. The United States got access

0:32:02.831 --> 0:32:05.950
<v Speaker 1>to intelligence from a government operating in close proximity to

0:32:06.031 --> 0:32:09.511
<v Speaker 1>many extremist groups, and Gaddafi got an ally in his

0:32:09.591 --> 0:32:12.230
<v Speaker 1>quest to eliminate one of the only major threats to

0:32:12.271 --> 0:32:12.671
<v Speaker 1>his power.

0:32:12.911 --> 0:32:16.671
<v Speaker 2>Kalybean leader Mamar al Kadafi is now being called an

0:32:16.791 --> 0:32:19.391
<v Speaker 2>enemy of Islam by al Qaeda.

0:32:19.991 --> 0:32:23.151
<v Speaker 1>Between all that and the oil contracts, it was enough

0:32:23.191 --> 0:32:26.271
<v Speaker 1>to convince the White House that Kaddafi was worth the baggage.

0:32:26.551 --> 0:32:29.111
<v Speaker 4>The first time in almost a quarter century, the US

0:32:29.431 --> 0:32:31.751
<v Speaker 4>has diplomatic ties with Libya.

0:32:32.111 --> 0:32:35.231
<v Speaker 1>The US mission and Tripoli had been abandoned in nineteen eighty,

0:32:35.871 --> 0:32:38.791
<v Speaker 1>shortly after a crowd of demonstrators set the embassy on fire.

0:32:39.911 --> 0:32:43.471
<v Speaker 1>Now American diplomats would be returning to Libya to build

0:32:43.511 --> 0:33:01.551
<v Speaker 1>a new one. We'll be right back for a certain

0:33:01.631 --> 0:33:05.230
<v Speaker 1>kind of diplomat. Libya was a dream assignment, a country

0:33:05.311 --> 0:33:08.751
<v Speaker 1>everyone knew had been warped by decades of dictatorship, but

0:33:08.791 --> 0:33:12.871
<v Speaker 1>which remained a black box. Ethan Chorin arrived in Libya

0:33:12.911 --> 0:33:14.991
<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and four, and he was excited.

0:33:15.391 --> 0:33:17.911
<v Speaker 18>I was very eager. This was, like, you know, exactly

0:33:17.911 --> 0:33:19.791
<v Speaker 18>what I had joined the Foreign Service to do, to

0:33:19.791 --> 0:33:22.391
<v Speaker 18>have a crazy experience where I felt like I could

0:33:22.831 --> 0:33:23.591
<v Speaker 18>make an impact.

0:33:24.071 --> 0:33:26.471
<v Speaker 1>It was up to choren and his State Department colleagues

0:33:26.511 --> 0:33:29.671
<v Speaker 1>to figure out what was going on in Libya, how

0:33:29.711 --> 0:33:32.510
<v Speaker 1>the Goadathi regime was running things, and what they wanted

0:33:32.511 --> 0:33:36.951
<v Speaker 1>from their new relationship with America. Chorin was also tasked

0:33:36.951 --> 0:33:40.190
<v Speaker 1>with briefing American companies on the Libyan market and writing

0:33:40.231 --> 0:33:43.271
<v Speaker 1>an official State Department guide to doing business in the country.

0:33:43.711 --> 0:33:46.431
<v Speaker 18>And effectively, we were sent out there and told just

0:33:46.471 --> 0:33:48.751
<v Speaker 18>to you know, go find what you can find. We

0:33:48.791 --> 0:33:51.151
<v Speaker 18>don't know much about this place, so see what you

0:33:51.151 --> 0:33:51.470
<v Speaker 18>can do.

0:33:52.431 --> 0:33:55.190
<v Speaker 1>As Chorin was finding his feet in Tripoli, he was

0:33:55.191 --> 0:33:58.591
<v Speaker 1>introduced over email to another diplomat who was also interested

0:33:58.631 --> 0:34:02.231
<v Speaker 1>in Libya. Chris Stevens was working out of Washington, d C.

0:34:02.391 --> 0:34:04.470
<v Speaker 1>At the time, but he had made it known to

0:34:04.551 --> 0:34:06.871
<v Speaker 1>his superiors of the State Department that he wanted to

0:34:06.871 --> 0:34:09.511
<v Speaker 1>be posted in Libya at the next available opportunity.

0:34:10.231 --> 0:34:12.271
<v Speaker 18>He was bidding on a position after me in Libya,

0:34:12.351 --> 0:34:15.511
<v Speaker 18>and he had just had this sort of enthusiasm. This

0:34:15.551 --> 0:34:17.391
<v Speaker 18>is like one of the last places in the Middle

0:34:17.391 --> 0:34:20.631
<v Speaker 18>East that sort of completely off limits to Americans and unknown,

0:34:21.230 --> 0:34:24.631
<v Speaker 18>and that clearly excited him, and it's excited me.

0:34:26.951 --> 0:34:29.230
<v Speaker 1>Stevens had been in the Foreign Service for about twenty

0:34:29.351 --> 0:34:32.750
<v Speaker 1>years after starting and abandoning a career as an international

0:34:32.791 --> 0:34:33.391
<v Speaker 1>trade lawyer.

0:34:33.710 --> 0:34:36.350
<v Speaker 3>They could have led a comfortable life in Washington, DC,

0:34:36.551 --> 0:34:38.790
<v Speaker 3>making a lot of money as a trade lawyer, but

0:34:38.871 --> 0:34:40.351
<v Speaker 3>it wasn't enough for him.

0:34:40.551 --> 0:34:43.270
<v Speaker 1>This is journalist Paul Richter. He's the author of the

0:34:43.311 --> 0:34:46.791
<v Speaker 1>book The Ambassadors, in which he details Chris Stevens's tenure

0:34:46.831 --> 0:34:47.710
<v Speaker 1>at the State Department.

0:34:47.911 --> 0:34:50.631
<v Speaker 3>So at a rather old age he went into the

0:34:50.671 --> 0:34:54.190
<v Speaker 3>Foreign Service. It was basically kind of a second career

0:34:54.230 --> 0:34:54.710
<v Speaker 3>for him.

0:34:55.270 --> 0:34:58.231
<v Speaker 1>From the start, Stevens was particularly interested in the Middle

0:34:58.230 --> 0:35:01.071
<v Speaker 1>East and North Africa. Before he put in his bid

0:35:01.071 --> 0:35:03.271
<v Speaker 1>for a post in Libya. He had worked in Egypt,

0:35:03.351 --> 0:35:06.991
<v Speaker 1>Saudi Arabia and Jerusalem. He told friends he possessed a

0:35:07.071 --> 0:35:09.790
<v Speaker 1>gene that drew him to the Arab world, a trait

0:35:10.111 --> 0:35:12.911
<v Speaker 1>apparently shared with a long line of Western diplomats.

0:35:13.591 --> 0:35:16.190
<v Speaker 3>There's been a certain romance about the Middle East that

0:35:16.311 --> 0:35:21.631
<v Speaker 3>goes back to T. E. Lawrence and other British and

0:35:21.951 --> 0:35:27.551
<v Speaker 3>Europeans who saw some mystery, some fascination that they didn't

0:35:27.591 --> 0:35:29.631
<v Speaker 3>see in other parts of the world.

0:35:31.230 --> 0:35:34.790
<v Speaker 1>One of Stephens's chief influences was a book called The Arabists,

0:35:35.111 --> 0:35:37.751
<v Speaker 1>which traces the history of American diplomacy in the Middle

0:35:37.750 --> 0:35:41.230
<v Speaker 1>East from its roots in missionary work and British imperialism.

0:35:41.951 --> 0:35:44.871
<v Speaker 1>This earlier generation of Middle East specialists was part of

0:35:44.871 --> 0:35:48.551
<v Speaker 1>a long colonial history of Westerners romanticizing the Arab world

0:35:49.471 --> 0:35:53.230
<v Speaker 1>starting in the nineteenth century. These diplomats and adventurers often

0:35:53.270 --> 0:35:57.111
<v Speaker 1>wrote about the region as ancient, otherworldly, and almost mystical.

0:35:57.991 --> 0:36:01.911
<v Speaker 3>There is probably a colonialist dimension to it in their attitude,

0:36:01.951 --> 0:36:05.950
<v Speaker 3>and some of that. There's something about the serenity. There's

0:36:05.991 --> 0:36:09.471
<v Speaker 3>something about the harshness of the atmosphere and the beauty

0:36:09.471 --> 0:36:12.511
<v Speaker 3>of the vironment that draws them, and there is something

0:36:12.551 --> 0:36:16.511
<v Speaker 3>about the exotic nature of the Arab world that they

0:36:16.591 --> 0:36:20.031
<v Speaker 3>just can't find in other places, and they keep going

0:36:20.431 --> 0:36:21.071
<v Speaker 3>back to it.

0:36:21.511 --> 0:36:24.310
<v Speaker 1>As Richter described it to me, Stevens was attracted to

0:36:24.351 --> 0:36:27.351
<v Speaker 1>the lifestyle Libya offered and the feeling of timelessness he

0:36:27.431 --> 0:36:27.991
<v Speaker 1>found there.

0:36:28.551 --> 0:36:33.230
<v Speaker 3>He liked going out and enjoying goat met cooked over

0:36:33.270 --> 0:36:37.911
<v Speaker 3>a Bedouin campfire in the desert. He enjoyed talking to

0:36:38.111 --> 0:36:41.511
<v Speaker 3>these Arabs who could tell you the history of their

0:36:41.551 --> 0:36:46.231
<v Speaker 3>families going back many generations. These Arabs would talk about

0:36:46.270 --> 0:36:49.951
<v Speaker 3>their distant relatives as if they died only a few

0:36:50.031 --> 0:36:53.710
<v Speaker 3>years ago, and then later Stephens would discover that they

0:36:53.710 --> 0:36:56.311
<v Speaker 3>were talking about people who died centuries ago.

0:36:56.791 --> 0:37:00.431
<v Speaker 1>For Stevens, the US opening to Gaddafi was an opportunity

0:37:00.471 --> 0:37:02.671
<v Speaker 1>to discover a place that had been closed off from

0:37:02.710 --> 0:37:07.111
<v Speaker 1>the West for decades. In emails to Ethan Schorin, Stevens

0:37:07.151 --> 0:37:09.431
<v Speaker 1>made clear how excited he was at the prospect of

0:37:09.431 --> 0:37:10.350
<v Speaker 1>being posted there.

0:37:10.750 --> 0:37:13.711
<v Speaker 18>Chris would write and ask something along lines of should

0:37:13.710 --> 0:37:15.790
<v Speaker 18>I tay you know, as interesting as I think it is.

0:37:16.270 --> 0:37:19.071
<v Speaker 18>I would describe what I was experiencing there and the

0:37:19.111 --> 0:37:21.230
<v Speaker 18>positives and negatives and I have just had a sense

0:37:21.270 --> 0:37:24.591
<v Speaker 18>that he understood and he too was willing to take

0:37:24.671 --> 0:37:27.190
<v Speaker 18>some risks to have that kind of an experience.

0:37:28.230 --> 0:37:31.830
<v Speaker 1>In many ways, Stevens's defining feature as a diplomat was

0:37:31.871 --> 0:37:35.031
<v Speaker 1>his openness to risk and his willingness to sit down

0:37:35.071 --> 0:37:37.591
<v Speaker 1>and talk to people whom others might have considered enemies.

0:37:38.710 --> 0:37:41.270
<v Speaker 1>In two thousand and six, when he was posted in Jerusalem,

0:37:41.631 --> 0:37:45.071
<v Speaker 1>Stephens served as a liaison to the PLO, the Palestine

0:37:45.111 --> 0:37:46.190
<v Speaker 1>Liberation Organization.

0:37:46.471 --> 0:37:50.391
<v Speaker 4>The Palestinian elections had a stunning outcome, a landslide victory

0:37:50.431 --> 0:37:54.350
<v Speaker 4>for harmas official results today showed the aslam.

0:37:54.111 --> 0:37:57.151
<v Speaker 1>That same year, when the militant group Hamas was elected

0:37:57.190 --> 0:38:00.710
<v Speaker 1>to a majority in the Palestinian legislature, Stevens expressed hope

0:38:00.750 --> 0:38:02.951
<v Speaker 1>that the United States would engage with them instead of

0:38:02.951 --> 0:38:04.391
<v Speaker 1>writing them off as terrorists.

0:38:04.951 --> 0:38:09.911
<v Speaker 3>After Hamas had won that election, Stephens wrote his closest friends,

0:38:10.190 --> 0:38:15.350
<v Speaker 3>family and said, I hope the American side doesn't misinterpret this.

0:38:15.951 --> 0:38:20.270
<v Speaker 3>I hope they understand that Islamists are not always villainous

0:38:20.270 --> 0:38:22.391
<v Speaker 3>and maybe we can work, Maybe we can find a

0:38:22.391 --> 0:38:24.591
<v Speaker 3>way to deal with them.

0:38:24.911 --> 0:38:28.310
<v Speaker 1>In this respect, Stevens represented one side of a long

0:38:28.351 --> 0:38:31.950
<v Speaker 1>standing debate in the world of American foreign policy about

0:38:31.951 --> 0:38:34.111
<v Speaker 1>whether the United States should give the benefit of the

0:38:34.151 --> 0:38:38.751
<v Speaker 1>doubt Islamist political leaders in the Arab world. Stevens believed

0:38:38.791 --> 0:38:41.591
<v Speaker 1>there were different kinds of Islamists. He once wrote that

0:38:41.750 --> 0:38:44.311
<v Speaker 1>Islamist doesn't necessarily translate to extremist.

0:38:45.111 --> 0:38:49.230
<v Speaker 3>I think he was always willing to open a conversation

0:38:49.391 --> 0:38:53.830
<v Speaker 3>with people from pretty scary Islamist backgrounds. I tell a

0:38:53.871 --> 0:38:57.230
<v Speaker 3>story about his meetings with one militia leader where he

0:38:57.391 --> 0:39:01.551
<v Speaker 3>stayed up way into the night to debate East German

0:39:01.631 --> 0:39:05.230
<v Speaker 3>political theory with this guy who had been fighting as

0:39:05.230 --> 0:39:08.471
<v Speaker 3>a jihadist in Afghanistan couple of years before.

0:39:09.190 --> 0:39:12.750
<v Speaker 1>Stevens's friend posture towards Islamist groups distinguished him from some

0:39:12.791 --> 0:39:17.430
<v Speaker 1>of his colleagues, including Ethan Chorin. Chorin believed then as

0:39:17.511 --> 0:39:21.230
<v Speaker 1>now that America must be supremely careful when dealing with Islamists,

0:39:21.391 --> 0:39:24.951
<v Speaker 1>whether they're hardliners or moderates. When I spoke to Chorin,

0:39:25.351 --> 0:39:27.790
<v Speaker 1>it was clear he was troubled by Stevens's outlook on

0:39:27.831 --> 0:39:31.391
<v Speaker 1>the Arab world, and more specifically his approach to diplomacy

0:39:31.431 --> 0:39:35.751
<v Speaker 1>in Libya. For Chorin, the tragedy of the Bengazi attack

0:39:36.031 --> 0:39:38.071
<v Speaker 1>is that it might have been prevented if Stevens and

0:39:38.111 --> 0:39:41.071
<v Speaker 1>his State Department colleagues back in Washington had taken the

0:39:41.151 --> 0:39:42.750
<v Speaker 1>Islamist threat more seriously.

0:39:43.391 --> 0:39:45.270
<v Speaker 18>But this is the heart of the Libya problem, is

0:39:45.270 --> 0:39:48.431
<v Speaker 18>that there was this sort of long, disjointed or absent

0:39:48.511 --> 0:39:52.271
<v Speaker 18>period of uh in many decades where the US Libya

0:39:52.311 --> 0:39:56.031
<v Speaker 18>relationship with either non existent or very stressed. We didn't

0:39:56.071 --> 0:39:59.631
<v Speaker 18>know who all the parties were. There were certainly clues,

0:39:59.671 --> 0:40:02.710
<v Speaker 18>but we didn't know whom to trust. And there were

0:40:02.750 --> 0:40:05.270
<v Speaker 18>people in Libya at the time, you know, before the

0:40:05.311 --> 0:40:08.551
<v Speaker 18>attack who were basically saying, look, you Americans need to

0:40:08.591 --> 0:40:11.111
<v Speaker 18>watch out because the people who you're dealing with are

0:40:11.151 --> 0:40:14.551
<v Speaker 18>not your friends.

0:40:16.190 --> 0:40:19.071
<v Speaker 1>Knowing the difference between friends and enemies had always been

0:40:19.111 --> 0:40:22.191
<v Speaker 1>a problem for the American mission in Libya. Two weeks

0:40:22.230 --> 0:40:24.751
<v Speaker 1>after Chris Stevens first arrived in Tripoli in the summer

0:40:24.791 --> 0:40:27.391
<v Speaker 1>of two thousand and seven, he was invited to Mulmar

0:40:27.391 --> 0:40:30.111
<v Speaker 1>Gadaffi's fortress for a banquet in honor of the French

0:40:30.190 --> 0:40:34.871
<v Speaker 1>president Nicholas Sarkozi. Stevens was introduced to Gaddafi briefly on

0:40:34.911 --> 0:40:38.031
<v Speaker 1>a receiving line journalist Paul Richter again.

0:40:38.351 --> 0:40:42.911
<v Speaker 3>And he saw at this event Kadafi's ambivalence toward the US.

0:40:43.551 --> 0:40:46.631
<v Speaker 3>Kadafi was hoping for a new relationship, and he was

0:40:46.710 --> 0:40:50.710
<v Speaker 3>hoping for trade deals, for weapons deals, for a new

0:40:50.710 --> 0:40:55.511
<v Speaker 3>opening with the world provided by his new friends, the Americans,

0:40:55.991 --> 0:40:59.951
<v Speaker 3>and yet his antipathy for the Americans still remained.

0:41:00.671 --> 0:41:03.991
<v Speaker 1>Gaddafi did not try to hide this antipathy, as Stevens

0:41:03.991 --> 0:41:07.151
<v Speaker 1>observed in letters to his family. The dinner for Sarkosi

0:41:07.270 --> 0:41:09.471
<v Speaker 1>was staged directly in view of a building that had

0:41:09.511 --> 0:41:12.350
<v Speaker 1>been destroyed by American air strikes in nineteen eighty six.

0:41:13.471 --> 0:41:16.631
<v Speaker 1>Gaddafi had commemorated it with a plaque recalling the failed

0:41:16.671 --> 0:41:20.790
<v Speaker 1>American aggression. Near where Gadaffi and Sarkozi were sitting was

0:41:20.791 --> 0:41:23.871
<v Speaker 1>a massive gold sculpture of a fist crushing an American

0:41:23.871 --> 0:41:24.470
<v Speaker 1>fighter jet.

0:41:25.311 --> 0:41:29.471
<v Speaker 3>And there was a music played at the event, a

0:41:29.471 --> 0:41:34.270
<v Speaker 3>patriotic song about fighting off the enemies of Libya. And

0:41:34.591 --> 0:41:38.871
<v Speaker 3>this old anti American feeling that had sustained his regime

0:41:38.991 --> 0:41:41.270
<v Speaker 3>for so many decades was still there.

0:41:42.351 --> 0:41:45.790
<v Speaker 1>Despite this apparent tension, Chris Stevens and his colleagues in

0:41:45.791 --> 0:41:49.990
<v Speaker 1>Tripoli tried to build relationships with Gaddafi's inner circle, most

0:41:49.991 --> 0:41:53.391
<v Speaker 1>importantly his sons, who were widely regarded as the future

0:41:53.431 --> 0:41:54.031
<v Speaker 1>of the country.

0:41:54.471 --> 0:41:58.351
<v Speaker 12>Lu Mahgadafi has been married twice and has eight biological

0:41:58.431 --> 0:42:00.151
<v Speaker 12>children and to adopted.

0:42:00.431 --> 0:42:04.431
<v Speaker 1>In particular, Gaddafi's son Safe al Islam, emerged as his

0:42:04.431 --> 0:42:07.951
<v Speaker 1>father's heir apparent and made great efforts to present himself

0:42:07.991 --> 0:42:11.351
<v Speaker 1>to the West as a reasonable, moderated influence on the regime.

0:42:11.591 --> 0:42:14.671
<v Speaker 12>Say Al Islam may be the most recognized and out

0:42:14.710 --> 0:42:18.871
<v Speaker 12>spoken of those offspring. He attended the London School of Economics,

0:42:18.911 --> 0:42:20.471
<v Speaker 12>saying as an advocate of reform.

0:42:20.750 --> 0:42:23.991
<v Speaker 1>By this point, Hussain al Shafi, the former prisoner at

0:42:23.991 --> 0:42:28.191
<v Speaker 1>Abu Sulim, had finally gotten his passport. At one point

0:42:28.270 --> 0:42:30.750
<v Speaker 1>during the three year process, he had to submit a

0:42:30.831 --> 0:42:35.390
<v Speaker 1>letter addressing Gaddafi personally. In it, Alshafi said he needed

0:42:35.431 --> 0:42:37.910
<v Speaker 1>to get to Egypt or Tunisia to seek medical help

0:42:37.951 --> 0:42:38.551
<v Speaker 1>for his wife.

0:42:39.071 --> 0:42:41.071
<v Speaker 10>I wrote a big petition.

0:42:41.230 --> 0:42:43.870
<v Speaker 9>Man, you'll be laughing if you see it like this,

0:42:44.551 --> 0:42:52.071
<v Speaker 9>Wamar Ghadafi, my presidents, my leader, my God. I am

0:42:52.190 --> 0:42:55.551
<v Speaker 9>the former prisoners with no charge applying for the nest.

0:42:55.710 --> 0:42:59.471
<v Speaker 9>I promise I will defend liberal revolution. I would defend Bukadafi.

0:43:00.031 --> 0:43:03.111
<v Speaker 9>I love you Ghadafi. I would be a good person,

0:43:03.151 --> 0:43:06.671
<v Speaker 9>a good citizens. I'll protect the greenpook in my heart.

0:43:06.750 --> 0:43:12.710
<v Speaker 9>I love green Pook. Please you follower your lover, Hossin

0:43:12.750 --> 0:43:13.311
<v Speaker 9>o Sofi.

0:43:14.270 --> 0:43:18.230
<v Speaker 1>For all that, El Shafi finally got his passport. Once

0:43:18.270 --> 0:43:20.151
<v Speaker 1>he did, he and his wife were able to fly

0:43:20.230 --> 0:43:22.830
<v Speaker 1>to Switzerland, and from there they boarded a flight to

0:43:22.871 --> 0:43:26.231
<v Speaker 1>the United States. When I interviewed El Shaffie in twenty

0:43:26.270 --> 0:43:29.031
<v Speaker 1>twenty one, he was living in Charlotte, North Carolina, with

0:43:29.071 --> 0:43:33.231
<v Speaker 1>his family and operating a luxury car service. By this point,

0:43:33.270 --> 0:43:35.111
<v Speaker 1>he was used to telling the story of the Abu

0:43:35.111 --> 0:43:38.310
<v Speaker 1>Salim massacre. One of the first things he did when

0:43:38.351 --> 0:43:40.591
<v Speaker 1>he arrived in the US was recount what he had

0:43:40.631 --> 0:43:43.671
<v Speaker 1>witnessed to a group of activists working with Human Rights Watch.

0:43:44.871 --> 0:43:48.151
<v Speaker 1>Back in Libya, Elshafi had kept his story to himself

0:43:48.311 --> 0:43:50.350
<v Speaker 1>out of fear that the regime would kill him for

0:43:50.431 --> 0:43:55.310
<v Speaker 1>spreading it. Remember, Gaddafi had barely acknowledged the massacre, and

0:43:55.391 --> 0:43:58.190
<v Speaker 1>the government had not even informed the victim's families that

0:43:58.230 --> 0:44:02.830
<v Speaker 1>their loved ones were dead. Lindsay Hilsome again, Bit by.

0:44:02.791 --> 0:44:05.951
<v Speaker 16>Bit, some people were released, and so they went to

0:44:05.991 --> 0:44:08.191
<v Speaker 16>see the families of the men who had been killed

0:44:08.230 --> 0:44:13.551
<v Speaker 16>and gave them the bad news. And then the government

0:44:13.671 --> 0:44:16.750
<v Speaker 16>started to issue some death certificates which didn't say what

0:44:16.831 --> 0:44:20.031
<v Speaker 16>had happened. They just said, you know, your relative, your husband,

0:44:20.151 --> 0:44:24.071
<v Speaker 16>your son, your father died, and so they had some

0:44:24.471 --> 0:44:26.991
<v Speaker 16>kind of official.

0:44:26.591 --> 0:44:27.270
<v Speaker 7>Word of it.

0:44:27.951 --> 0:44:32.390
<v Speaker 16>And then the families began to join together because it

0:44:32.431 --> 0:44:35.631
<v Speaker 16>became clear that these weren't just deaths, these were murders.

0:44:35.991 --> 0:44:39.591
<v Speaker 7>Nobody knew anything about that fateful day for many years,

0:44:40.270 --> 0:44:43.071
<v Speaker 7>until the relatives of the victims began to protest the

0:44:43.151 --> 0:44:45.310
<v Speaker 7>killings and demand an explanation.

0:44:45.951 --> 0:44:48.831
<v Speaker 1>Human rights lawyers in Benghazi took on the family members

0:44:48.871 --> 0:44:52.310
<v Speaker 1>as clients and filed the legal claim demanding information from

0:44:52.351 --> 0:44:56.111
<v Speaker 1>the government. In two thousand and seven. The lawsuit gave

0:44:56.230 --> 0:45:00.551
<v Speaker 1>rise to the first public protest movement in modern Libyan history.

0:45:00.991 --> 0:45:04.591
<v Speaker 7>The relatives held protest rallies outside the Justice Department in

0:45:04.671 --> 0:45:07.671
<v Speaker 7>Benghazi after they heard about what came to be known

0:45:07.951 --> 0:45:10.511
<v Speaker 7>as Bloody Saturday at Abusli in prison.

0:45:12.791 --> 0:45:15.790
<v Speaker 16>Now, this was a very bold move. Nobody demonstrated or

0:45:15.831 --> 0:45:19.231
<v Speaker 16>protested in Gaddafi's Libya. But they didn't really care anymore.

0:45:19.270 --> 0:45:21.790
<v Speaker 16>They'd lost everything, and so they started to do this,

0:45:21.871 --> 0:45:28.791
<v Speaker 16>demanding justice, demanding compensation, and they were really a new

0:45:28.991 --> 0:45:32.631
<v Speaker 16>group of opponents to the regime with an emotional power,

0:45:32.951 --> 0:45:35.631
<v Speaker 16>and it was quite hard for the authorities just to

0:45:35.631 --> 0:45:38.031
<v Speaker 16>lock them up and kill them because most of them

0:45:38.031 --> 0:45:38.911
<v Speaker 16>were old ladies.

0:45:41.391 --> 0:45:45.230
<v Speaker 1>The regime found the protesters impossible to ignore, and at

0:45:45.270 --> 0:45:48.790
<v Speaker 1>the urging of Safe al Islam, Gaddafi's ostensibly moderate son,

0:45:49.511 --> 0:45:52.750
<v Speaker 1>the government started sending out death notices to hundreds of families,

0:45:53.391 --> 0:45:56.510
<v Speaker 1>finally confirming after more than twenty years, that their loved

0:45:56.511 --> 0:46:02.631
<v Speaker 1>ones had been killed. Still, the protest continued. Every Saturday,

0:46:02.671 --> 0:46:05.431
<v Speaker 1>the families would gather at the Benghazi courthouse, holding up

0:46:05.471 --> 0:46:07.270
<v Speaker 1>photos of the people they had lost and.

0:46:07.270 --> 0:46:11.310
<v Speaker 7>Praying, demanding the bodies of the loved ones from the

0:46:11.351 --> 0:46:12.391
<v Speaker 7>Gaddafi regime.

0:46:13.270 --> 0:46:16.031
<v Speaker 1>For a while, it was just about the only visible

0:46:16.071 --> 0:46:19.791
<v Speaker 1>form of descent in Gaddafi's Libya. But that was about

0:46:19.791 --> 0:46:22.431
<v Speaker 1>to change, and for the second time in less than

0:46:22.471 --> 0:46:26.071
<v Speaker 1>a decade, the United States government would be reevaluating its

0:46:26.071 --> 0:46:41.871
<v Speaker 1>relationship with Muamar Gadafi. On the next episode of Fiasco,

0:46:42.471 --> 0:46:47.631
<v Speaker 1>Libya erupts in revolution, Gaddafi threatens to destroy Benghazi, and

0:46:47.710 --> 0:46:50.910
<v Speaker 1>America decides to get involved. Did you feel relieved when

0:46:50.951 --> 0:46:52.871
<v Speaker 1>you heard that the intervention had happened.

0:46:52.911 --> 0:46:54.231
<v Speaker 18>Did it lifts the pressure?

0:46:54.871 --> 0:46:56.231
<v Speaker 7>Yes, all of us.

0:46:57.311 --> 0:46:59.471
<v Speaker 11>You know he would have destroyed Binghazi.

0:47:00.431 --> 0:47:02.190
<v Speaker 10>He didn't want Benghazi anymore.

0:47:04.511 --> 0:47:07.671
<v Speaker 1>For a list of books, articles and documentaries we used

0:47:07.671 --> 0:47:10.431
<v Speaker 1>in our research, follow the link in our show notes.

0:47:11.391 --> 0:47:14.911
<v Speaker 1>Fiasco is a production of Prolog Projects, and it's distributed

0:47:14.911 --> 0:47:18.831
<v Speaker 1>by Pushkin Industries. The show is produced by Andrew Parsons,

0:47:19.031 --> 0:47:23.631
<v Speaker 1>Ula Culpa, Sam Lee and me Leon Mayfock, with editorial

0:47:23.631 --> 0:47:27.791
<v Speaker 1>support from Sam Graham Felsen and Madeline Kaplan. Our researcher

0:47:27.951 --> 0:47:31.951
<v Speaker 1>was Francis Carr. Our score was composed by Dan English,

0:47:32.111 --> 0:47:35.951
<v Speaker 1>Joe Valley and Noah Hecht. Additional music by Nick Selevester

0:47:36.151 --> 0:47:39.551
<v Speaker 1>and Joel Saint Julian. Our theme song is by Spatial

0:47:39.591 --> 0:47:43.911
<v Speaker 1>Relations Audio mixed by Rob Buyers, Michael Raphael and Johnny

0:47:43.951 --> 0:47:47.551
<v Speaker 1>Vince Evans. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips

0:47:47.591 --> 0:47:52.151
<v Speaker 1>and y Copyright Council provided by Peter Yassi at Yass

0:47:52.311 --> 0:47:58.311
<v Speaker 1>Butler PLLC. Thanks to Archive dot Org, muraud Idris, Nina,

0:47:58.391 --> 0:48:03.911
<v Speaker 1>Ernest tay Glass, Kerry Baker, Ismael Swea ellen Horn, Ben Ryder,

0:48:04.111 --> 0:48:08.910
<v Speaker 1>James Brandt, and Rachel Ward Special Thanks to Lubnary, and

0:48:09.111 --> 0:48:09.990
<v Speaker 1>thank you for listen