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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey Leon here, before we get to this episode,

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Speaker 1: I want to let you know that you can binge

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Speaker 1: the entire season of Fiasco Benghazi right now ad free

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Speaker 1: by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Sign up for Pushkin

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Speaker 1: Plus on the Fiasco Apple podcast showpage or visit Pushkin

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Speaker 1: dot Fm Slash Plus now onto the show. On the

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Speaker 1: night of September eleventh, twenty twelve, four Americans were killed

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Speaker 1: in Benghazi, a city in Libya on the Mediterranean Sea.

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Speaker 2: What potentially happened in Libya in the city of Benghazi.

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Speaker 2: Not only did the attackers storm the building in Benghazi.

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Speaker 1: The attack began when a group of armed assailants broke

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Speaker 1: into a diplomatic compound operated by the State Department. Would

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Speaker 1: mean that it ended nearly eight hours later with the

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Speaker 1: bombing of a secret CIA base nearby.

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Speaker 2: First they attacked it with RPG rifles, then they opened

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Speaker 2: fire on it with machine guns.

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Speaker 1: Among the victims was the American ambassador to Libya, Chris Stevens.

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Speaker 3: And again.

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Speaker 2: His name is John Christopher Stevens, and he was born

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Speaker 2: in Northern California in nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 1: Stevens had been posted in Libya on and off for

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Speaker 1: the better part of five years. On the night of

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Speaker 1: the attack, he died of smoke in elation after the

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Speaker 1: assailants set fire to the villa where he was hiding

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Speaker 1: from them. Afterwards, it seemed like all anyone in the

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Speaker 1: United States wanted to talk about was whose fault it was.

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Speaker 4: The Obama administration resisting responsibility.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of dispute when the administration knew how

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Speaker 5: dangerous the situation with Lizim ben Ghazi, the situation.

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Speaker 1: Who had let it happen, Who had failed to stop

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Speaker 1: it once it started, Whose lack of vigilance had allowed

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Speaker 1: the attackers to do as much damage as they did.

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Speaker 1: Should they have had more advanced warning, should they have

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Speaker 1: set more security. A question that usually got skipped over

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Speaker 1: as if the answer were self evident, was what Ambassador

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Speaker 1: Stevens was doing in Benghazi to begin with. All anyone

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Speaker 1: seemed interested in was that the American mission in Libya

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Speaker 1: had failed, not what the mission had actually been.

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Speaker 5: My name is Chris Stevens, and I'm excited to continue

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Speaker 5: the great work we've started building a solid partnership between

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Speaker 5: the United States and Libya to help you, the Libyan people,

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Speaker 5: achieve your goals.

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Speaker 1: For more than forty years, Libya had been ruled by

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Speaker 1: a violent and eccentric dictator, Mumar Gadafi.

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Speaker 6: We read that you are mad.

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Speaker 7: You know that those things had been invented.

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Speaker 1: Gaddafi had long been regarded in the West as an

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Speaker 1: unparalleled menace. Before bin Laden, Kaddafi was the face of

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Speaker 1: international terrorism.

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Speaker 4: He's been called the world number one terrorist, a madman

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Speaker 4: who exports terrorists them around the world.

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan once memorably called Kadafi the mad dog of

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Speaker 1: the Middle East. What I had forgotten, or never really

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Speaker 1: absorbed in the first place, was that during the early

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Speaker 1: two thousands, under the Bush administration, the United States had

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Speaker 1: reconciled with Kadafi. We lifted sanctions, we established diplomatic relations.

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Speaker 1: We even accepted his help in pursuing suspected terrorists.

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Speaker 8: The United States may have a new ally in the

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Speaker 8: war on terror, Libya's Momar Kadafi says.

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Speaker 1: American oil companies were doing business with Libya for the

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Speaker 1: first time in decades. In Tripoli, Libya's capital city, the

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Speaker 1: State Department opened a new American embassy. As you'll hear,

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Speaker 1: that was why Chris Stevens first came to Libya back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 8: Moamar Kadafi's regime has shown excellent cooperation against terrorism and

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Speaker 8: dismantled its nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 1: Back then, I wasn't paying much attention to international news,

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Speaker 1: and I certainly wasn't paying attention to Libya. I was

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Speaker 1: just graduating from college in two thousand and seven. I

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Speaker 1: had heard of Gaddafi, but that was about it. I

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Speaker 1: was only slightly more tuned in in twenty eleven when

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Speaker 1: the Arab Spring swept into Libya and forced Gadafi out

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Speaker 1: of power as part of a US backed revolution.

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Speaker 9: The uprising against Gaddafi broke out in mid February, and

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Speaker 9: an anti regime protests quickly spread across the vast desert

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Speaker 9: country of six million people.

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Speaker 1: But even then I just wasn't that invested or informed.

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Speaker 1: So when I saw reports in September of twenty twelve

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Speaker 1: about an attack on a diplomatic compound in Benghazi, I

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Speaker 1: had no context for it, to be honest, I didn't

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Speaker 1: even really think of benng Ghazi as a place. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I experienced it as an American political scandal. I associated

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Speaker 1: the word Benghazi with a drawn out controversy that it

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Speaker 1: spawned endless conspiracy theories and captivated the Republican Party. Ben

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Speaker 1: Ghazi gaate the political cover up of some kind.

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Speaker 10: Of regime gigs lying about it.

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Speaker 4: I think it could be as bad as Watergate, but

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Speaker 4: nobody died in water Gate.

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Speaker 11: The White House can sign those people to death.

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Speaker 12: We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You

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Speaker 12: put two and two together.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to make this podcast because I had a

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Speaker 1: strong suspicion that I was missing something that by not

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Speaker 1: knowing what really happened in Benghazi or who it had

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Speaker 1: happened to, I was checked out on something really important,

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Speaker 1: because in retrospect, the Benghazi attack looks incredibly consequential for

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Speaker 1: Libya certainly, but also for the United States. Even though

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Speaker 1: the scandal has a reputation, especially among liberals, as a

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Speaker 1: nuisance and a distraction, it really changed history. Among other things,

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Speaker 1: it led directly to Hillary Clinton's email scandal. So if

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Speaker 1: you're someone who thinks Quinton's emails cost her the twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen election, you could make the case that Benghazi took

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Speaker 1: down a presidency no less than Watergate did. What I've

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Speaker 1: realized after dozens of interviews with people who watched the

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Speaker 1: Benghazi story unfold up close, is that there are very

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Speaker 1: specific reasons why the scandal had such longevity. Together, they

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Speaker 1: tell a story about political warfare in America, how it

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Speaker 1: was waged in the pre Trump era through the media

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Speaker 1: and the justice system in Congress, and how it laid

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Speaker 1: the groundwork for the politics we live with today. But

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Speaker 1: Benghazi is not just an American story. It's also about

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Speaker 1: America's place in the world, and how, after eight years

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Speaker 1: of George W. Bush and the War on Terror, the

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Speaker 1: Obama administration set out to change the country's image abroad.

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Speaker 1: At the height of the scandal, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: were asking, sometimes earnestly, often performatively, why did Ambassador Chris

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Speaker 1: Stevens die that night in Benghazi? And what I've learned

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Speaker 1: is there is an answer to that question, but all

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Speaker 1: the noise around the scandal made it incredibly hard to

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Speaker 1: see it clearly in real time. It turns out, to

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Speaker 1: understand the truth about Benghazi, you have to understand what

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Speaker 1: America was trying to achieved there. You have to know

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Speaker 1: what was supposed to happen in Benghazi in a perfect world,

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Speaker 1: instead of what did I'm Leon Napok from Prologue Projects

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Speaker 1: and Pushkin Industries. This is fiasco Benghazi.

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Speaker 13: Obama, who have four Americans to die in Benghazi?

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Speaker 1: There is a certain self fulfilling prophecy to outrage.

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Speaker 11: Wild conspiracy theory.

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Speaker 7: Intelligence officials acknowledged they originally got it wrong.

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Speaker 3: It was a fucking mess.

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Speaker 1: It's really hard to figure out what's going on.

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Speaker 10: They're shooting through the door.

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Speaker 6: I turned to the ambassador and said, if they blow

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Speaker 6: the locks, I'm gonna start shooting.

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Speaker 7: And when I die, I want you to keep on fighting.

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Speaker 3: You can't understand the story of Libya if you don't

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Speaker 3: know what's going on in Benghazi.

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Speaker 12: Omar Ghadavi is not leaving without a flight.

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Speaker 1: Episode one The Dictator, in which Muamar Gadafi and the

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Speaker 1: United States, after decades of hostility, discover they have a

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Speaker 1: common enemy. We'll be right back. Hussein el Shafi was

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Speaker 1: twenty years old when he was arrested in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: nine for criticizing Muammar Gadafi.

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Speaker 9: I was in the fourth semester, like a second year

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Speaker 9: at that time, and they just knock on my door.

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Speaker 9: They put my hands in a handcuffs.

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Speaker 1: El Shafi was born and raised in Benghazi. At the

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Speaker 1: time of his arrest, he was studying engineering at a

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Speaker 1: local university.

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Speaker 9: They took me to one of those They call it

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Speaker 9: like Mora Bamni, which means the security district for the area.

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Speaker 1: El Shafi's crime was that he spoke up against the

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Speaker 1: regime during a student forum on the Green Book, Kadafi's

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Speaker 1: rambling manifesto.

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Speaker 11: He has compiled his thinking into a green book, a

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Speaker 11: blending of the Koran and Kadafi's own brooding thoughts.

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Speaker 9: He called the Anovaria Tarita means the third solution for

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Speaker 9: the world. You know, as a capitalism is dying and

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Speaker 9: the socialism is dying, I am the solution for the world.

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Speaker 1: El Shafi was required to attend the Green Book forum

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Speaker 1: in order to receive his degree, but he was tired

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Speaker 1: of having to pretend to take Gadafi seriously as a thinker,

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Speaker 1: and he was tired of the regime having control over

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Speaker 1: his mind.

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Speaker 9: There is no library in none of our Libyan cities.

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Speaker 9: If you want to read, the only books was brought

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Speaker 9: by Godavi's authority and put on the shelves.

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Speaker 10: No voice above Godav's voice, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so el Shafi stood up in front of his

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Speaker 1: classmates and denounced Gaddafi for closing Libya off from the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world, even the Soviet Union was starting

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Speaker 1: to open up. He said it was time for Libya

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Speaker 1: to change too. El Shafi was arrested at his home

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Speaker 1: a few days later. He was taken first by bus,

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Speaker 1: then by plane to Tripoli, about four hundred miles west

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Speaker 1: of Bengui. Zi Alshafi was blindfolded and handcuffed throughout the journey,

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Speaker 1: so when he was led into a prison cell, he

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Speaker 1: didn't know where he was.

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Speaker 9: There were small holes in the walls between cells, so

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Speaker 9: I was able to talk to one of those people

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Speaker 9: he was before us. At where we are, said Unibuslim body,

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Speaker 9: welcome to Buslim.

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Speaker 1: Abu Salim was an infamous detention facility known for housing

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Speaker 1: political prisoners.

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Speaker 14: The dark heart of Gaddafi's oppression, Abu Salim prison the.

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Speaker 12: Name itself so frightening that Libyans avoid saying it.

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Speaker 1: Abu Salim was full of people the Gadafi regime considered enemies. Historically,

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Speaker 1: opposition to Gaddafi and Libya had been tied up with religion.

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Speaker 1: Although Gaddafi identified as Muslim, many Libyans came to see

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Speaker 1: him as an apostate advancing a secular ideology. These critics

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Speaker 1: included hardline Islamists who belonged to groups like the Libyan

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Speaker 1: Islamic Fighting Group, which supported the violent overthrow of the regime.

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Speaker 1: But there were also people like husay In El Shafi,

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Speaker 1: who opposed political violence and were unaffiliated with any organization.

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Speaker 9: He claims those are Islamists, but I was, yeah, I

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Speaker 9: was going to the mosque. I was very con conservative

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Speaker 9: at that time, but I did not belong to any group,

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Speaker 9: like an armed group or anything like this.

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Speaker 1: El Shafi says the Gaddafi regime branded anyone they didn't

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Speaker 1: like a radical Islamist and that many ordinary devout Muslims

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Speaker 1: like him were swept up in the dragnet.

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Speaker 9: He doesn't say I'm against Muslim, because he claims too

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Speaker 9: that he is a Muslim, but he claims that his

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Speaker 9: problem with the Islamic parties that was a pretext means

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Speaker 9: that he taken as a reason to kill or to

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Speaker 9: demolish his opponents.

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Speaker 1: It's worth saying here that the meaning of the term

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Speaker 1: Islamist depends on who you're talking to. At its most basic,

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Speaker 1: it refers to someone who subscribes to a political ideology

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Speaker 1: based on Islamic principles, and under that umbrella you can

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Speaker 1: find both avowed hardliners and moderates. The word Islamism was

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Speaker 1: introduced to English back in the nineteen eighties as a

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Speaker 1: less pejorative alternative to Islamic fundamentalism. Some people still use

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Speaker 1: it that way, as a neutral word that imagines Islamism

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Speaker 1: as just another political orientation. Others associate Islamism with violence

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Speaker 1: and intolerance. For them, an Islamist government based on any

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Speaker 1: form of Sharia or Islamic law is inherently undemocratic. At

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Speaker 1: Abu Salim, Hussein el Shafi was lucky to be classified

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Speaker 1: as a low risk inmate and kept separate from those

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Speaker 1: suspected of being violent extremists. Still, he was beaten and

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Speaker 1: tortured and never given any indication of when he would

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Speaker 1: be released. Other former inmates from Abu Sulim have reported

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Speaker 1: being attacked by dog, subjected to deafening nightly broadcasts of

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Speaker 1: Gaddafi's speeches, and prodded with electric cables. When I interviewed

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Speaker 1: El Shafi, he had to take a break because the

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Speaker 1: phone was hurting his ear. It had been mutilated at

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Speaker 1: Abu Sulim.

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Speaker 9: I'll try to use this ear, not that ear, because

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Speaker 9: this one cut in the jail oh my god, have

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Speaker 9: did you see my ear?

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Speaker 11: Yeah?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, it's touching the thing, you know. Sorry by that.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety five, about six years into El Shafi's imprisonment,

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Speaker 1: life at Abu Sulim became more cruel and more isolating.

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Speaker 1: It happened following a jail break, after which inmates were

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Speaker 1: forbidden from going outside and medical care was withheld from

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Speaker 1: those who needed it.

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Speaker 9: Things getting worse and worse and worse. Some people died,

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Speaker 9: Some people has cancers, you name it, heart pressure, and

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Speaker 9: some people has like stomach issues.

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Speaker 10: Some of them, they said, were dying slowly guys.

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Speaker 1: As conditions worsened, a group of inmates planned a protest,

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Speaker 1: and on June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety six, they overpowered

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Speaker 1: a guard, took his keys, and started letting people out

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Speaker 1: of their cells. In the ensuing chaos, the prison guards

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Speaker 1: reportedly killed seven inmates. Later that day, Gaddafi's intelligence chief

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Speaker 1: arrived at the prison to survey the situation. Before leaving,

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Speaker 1: he promised a delegation of inmates that conditions at Abu

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Speaker 1: Sulim would improve and that those who needed medical attention

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Speaker 1: would receive it instead. The following morning, the prisoners of

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Speaker 1: Abu Sulim, More than a thousand of them were marched

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Speaker 1: into the courtyards adjacent to their cell blocks. Elshafi remembers

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Speaker 1: being taken outside and being ordered to lie face down

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Speaker 1: on the ground.

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Speaker 9: They came in the morning, they said okay, room by rum,

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Speaker 9: they take them out.

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Speaker 10: They tied their hands and the turn around facing the

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Speaker 10: wall in the yard.

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Speaker 1: El Shaffie estimates that there were about thirteen hundred men

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Speaker 1: lined up in the prison yards when he started to

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Speaker 1: hear shooting.

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Speaker 9: My friend is Cardiolois now in Ireland, his named Sab.

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Speaker 9: He was holding my hand tight. I said no, I said,

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Speaker 9: the care.

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Speaker 10: Us, that's all.

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Speaker 9: They're not gonna kill them all. They want to scare us.

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Speaker 9: They try to teach us a lesson, you know. He said,

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Speaker 9: three for our friends, their souls raising up the gun.

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Speaker 1: Al Shaffie and his friend, whom I also interviewed, didn't

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Speaker 1: know if they were next, but from the sound of

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Speaker 1: the gunfire they could tell the guards were moving from

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Speaker 1: one section of the prison to another.

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Speaker 9: The shootings continued for at least three and a half hours.

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Speaker 10: The last shot was individuals like they're finishing up, you know.

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Speaker 1: El Shaffie thinks he and the other men in his

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Speaker 1: cell block were spared because of their low risk classification.

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Speaker 1: He says there were only about three hundred survivors. After

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Speaker 1: the shooting ended, prison guards enlisted some of them to

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Speaker 1: help clean the watches and rings. They were taking off

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Speaker 1: the bodies.

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Speaker 9: And they have plots info the wear on them. And

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Speaker 9: I said, oh my gosh, they're sitting. They have rings

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Speaker 9: and they watches, Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: For years, the massacre at Abu Salim was kept secret

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Speaker 1: from the world, even in Libya. It was nothing more

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Speaker 1: than a rumor.

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Speaker 10: No one knows nothing.

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Speaker 9: All well, they know people heard shooting and they hit

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Speaker 9: sirens that night. And some of them they said they

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Speaker 9: kill him. Some of them they said, no, he just

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Speaker 9: killed some of them. No one knows anything.

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Speaker 1: The families of those who had been killed were not

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Speaker 1: informed that their loved ones were dead. Instead, they were

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Speaker 1: merely told that they could no longer be at them.

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Speaker 1: In many cases, family members continued bringing letters and food

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Speaker 1: to the prison and leaving them with the guards, who

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Speaker 1: said nothing. According to al Shafi, new inmates who arrived

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Speaker 1: at Abu Sulim in the years after the massacre would

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Speaker 1: find bullets lodged in the prison yard walls.

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Speaker 9: There is a.

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Speaker 15: Figure emerging in the Middle East. He is Colonel Muammar

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Speaker 15: El Kadafi, and he wants to unify the Arabs and

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Speaker 15: restore the Arab Crescent of Nations to their ancient prestige

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Speaker 15: and power.

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Speaker 10: In the Shaving.

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Speaker 1: Before Mumar Gadafi built prisons for his domestic enemies, he

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Speaker 1: made a name for himself by standing up to his

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Speaker 1: foreign ones. Gaddafi came to power in nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: replacing the Western backed king Idris by staging a military

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Speaker 1: coup in Benghazi. Gaddafi was just twenty seven years old,

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Speaker 1: a handsome young army officer who projected strength and vigor,

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Speaker 1: and who was embraced by many Libyans.

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Speaker 14: Olibya was an obscure desert kingdom. Today it is on

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Speaker 14: the center stage of Middle East politics, and the matter

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Speaker 14: responsible is under thirty.

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Speaker 11: A strong and asymmetric cancerness like the anti hero movie

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Speaker 11: stars of the.

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Speaker 1: Sixties, Kaddafi, who was born in a Bedouin tent off

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Speaker 1: the Mediterranean coast, positioned himself as a representative of the

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Speaker 1: Arab world and a challenger to Western imperialism.

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Speaker 13: A revolutionary who believes people should rule themselves, not be

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Speaker 13: ruled by government.

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Speaker 15: If those ambitions seem grandiose for the young leader of

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Speaker 15: a desert land of a mere two million people, it

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Speaker 15: should be quickly pointed out that Kadafi has one powerful asset.

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Speaker 14: Money Oil money makes Libya's young leftist strong man a

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Speaker 14: power in the Arab world.

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Speaker 1: In a move that defined his early years in power,

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Speaker 1: Kaddafi forced Western oil companies to renegotiate their export agreements

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Speaker 1: with Libya.

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Speaker 14: In March, Kaddafi's deputy prime minister negotiated a new agreement

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Speaker 14: with Western oil companies. Libya is now making twice as

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Speaker 14: much money from oil as when Gadaffi and his young

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Speaker 14: officers overthrow King DRIs two years ago.

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Speaker 1: The standoff ended up shifting the balance of power towards

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Speaker 1: Arab countries like Libya that possessed huge amounts of oil,

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Speaker 1: and away from Western countries that depended on it.

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Speaker 14: Now, Libya is the world's sixth largest producer of oil

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Speaker 14: the fourth largest exporter. Enough oil will be shipped this

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Speaker 14: year to earn Libya more than two billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Starting in the nineteen seventies, Gaddafi put his oil money

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Speaker 1: to work, providing training and weapons for rebel groups around

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Speaker 1: the world. He supported Latin American leftists like the Sandinistas,

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Speaker 1: the PLO, South African Anti apartheid movement, and the IRA

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Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland.

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Speaker 15: Each year, the IRA collects a check for two million

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Speaker 15: dollars from one of Gadaf's money managers in Tripoli.

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Speaker 10: Round the globe, dozens of scenes like.

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Speaker 15: This are being enacted for the benefit of Gadaf's crusade.

350
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Speaker 1: According to one estimate, more than thirty different organizations sent

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Speaker 1: fighters to train in Libya at various points.

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Speaker 15: Libya's strong man leader Mumar Khadaffi, spends an estimated two

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Speaker 15: hundred million dollars a year arming and training terrorists and insurgents.

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Speaker 1: Gaddafi also spent a lot of money building up his

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Speaker 1: own Arsenal her capital.

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Speaker 16: Libya under Gaddaffi in the seven sies was the biggest

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Speaker 16: purchaser of weapons in the world. He was like a

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Speaker 16: compulsive shopper.

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Speaker 1: This is Lindsay Hilsom, a reporter for Channel four News

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Speaker 1: in the UK who has covered Libya extensively. In her

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Speaker 1: book Sandstorm, Hilsomon describes how Mumar Gadafi came to loom

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Speaker 1: over the American imagination as a symbol of violence and chaos.

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Speaker 13: He's the ultimate villain, the godfather of international terrorism, a

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Speaker 13: one dimensional, erratic, irrational, unbalanced two bit dictate.

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Speaker 5: A central character in real world acts of terror, as well.

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Speaker 8: As the star of a number of best selling thrillers

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Speaker 8: based on the premise that one day he would get

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Speaker 8: the bomb.

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Speaker 15: He's very volatile, an opportunistic.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty one, Newsweek put Gadafi on its cover

371
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Speaker 1: under the headline the most dangerous man in the World.

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Speaker 1: Technically there was a question mark in the headline, and

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Speaker 1: if you read the article, the answer was maybe. But

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Speaker 1: the cover accurately captured Gaddafi's reputation in America.

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Speaker 13: He has three obsessions. Hatred of Israel, hatred of the

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Speaker 13: United States for supporting Israel, and a dream of a

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Speaker 13: united Arab world.

378
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Speaker 1: Libya became synonymous with terrorism. If you remember Back to

379
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Speaker 1: the Future, which came out in nineteen eighty five, Doc

380
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Speaker 1: Brown is pursued by crazed terrorists from Libya who want

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Speaker 1: to kill him for selling them a phony nuclear bomb.

382
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Speaker 1: Oh my god, they found me.

383
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Speaker 3: I don't know how they found who?

384
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Speaker 2: Who?

385
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Speaker 8: What do you think?

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Speaker 1: Gaddafi became even more closely associated with terrorism in nineteen

387
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Speaker 1: eighty six, when his regime was implicated in a bombing

388
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Speaker 1: in Berlin. Reporter Lindsay Hilsome.

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Speaker 16: Again in nineteen eighty six, he provided the weapons, training

390
00:22:13,390 --> 00:22:17,951
Speaker 16: and his agents attacked a belgiscotheque in Berlin.

391
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Speaker 17: For the second time.

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Speaker 13: This week, Americans had been the victims of a terrorist

393
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Speaker 13: attack in Europe.

394
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Speaker 17: This time the target was a nightclub in West Berlin,

395
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Speaker 17: a favorite of American soldiers. Little was left of the

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Speaker 17: West Berlin Disco.

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Speaker 15: Over one hundred and fifty were injured, about seventy of

398
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Speaker 15: them American.

399
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Speaker 16: Servicemen, and it was quite clear from very early on

400
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Speaker 16: that it was the Libyans behind that attack.

401
00:22:40,071 --> 00:22:42,751
Speaker 8: Police are looking for a pattern to support their belief

402
00:22:42,911 --> 00:22:46,071
Speaker 8: that Libyan leader Colonel Muamar Kadaffi sponsored the attack.

403
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Speaker 1: Two Americans were killed and seventy nine were injured in

404
00:22:49,671 --> 00:22:53,511
Speaker 1: the Berlin attack. Ronald Reagan responded with air strikes on

405
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Speaker 1: Tripoli and Benghazi.

406
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Speaker 4: At seven o'clock this evening Eastern time, air and naval

407
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Speaker 4: forces of the United States launched a series of strikes

408
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Speaker 4: against the headquarters, terrorist facilities and military assets that support

409
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Speaker 4: Muhama Kadafi's subversive activities.

410
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Speaker 1: The bombs were not enough to convince Gaddafi to retreat,

411
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:18,710
Speaker 1: Neither were the economic sanctions that Reagan had imposed on him.

412
00:23:18,991 --> 00:23:22,350
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty eight, Gaddafi was accused of another major

413
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Speaker 1: terrorist attack, this one targeting a passenger jet flying from

414
00:23:25,991 --> 00:23:29,390
Speaker 1: London to New York. As PanAm Flight one oh three

415
00:23:29,551 --> 00:23:33,350
Speaker 1: passed over the town of Lockerby, Scotland, a bomb exploded

416
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Speaker 1: and the plane went down.

417
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Speaker 6: In a few short, violent moments, two hundred and seventy

418
00:23:38,671 --> 00:23:43,670
Speaker 6: people died. People from twenty one countries filled these coffins,

419
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Speaker 6: one hundred and eighty nine of them were American.

420
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Speaker 1: Gaddafi denied having anything to do with the Lockerby bombing,

421
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:53,590
Speaker 1: but when evidence of Libyan involvement was uncovered, the attack

422
00:23:53,751 --> 00:23:55,950
Speaker 1: came to define him in the eyes of the West.

423
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Speaker 13: Is an egomaniac who would trigger World War three to

424
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Speaker 13: make the headlines, is the world's principal terrorist and trainer

425
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Speaker 13: of terrorists, and dangerous to peace.

426
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Speaker 1: As Gaddafi's profile rose around the world, the violence he

427
00:24:17,071 --> 00:24:20,910
Speaker 1: perpetrated against foreign targets overshadowed his brutal repression of the

428
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Speaker 1: Libyan people.

429
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Speaker 16: The violence was very visible to ordinary Libyans because they

430
00:24:27,231 --> 00:24:31,470
Speaker 16: did see people hanging in the streets, and everybody knew

431
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:34,830
Speaker 16: somebody who had a relative who had been hanged or

432
00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:38,551
Speaker 16: who had been imprisoned. But it didn't seem to be

433
00:24:39,071 --> 00:24:42,950
Speaker 16: very obvious to people outside Libya because Libya was a

434
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Speaker 16: closed country and very few people were allowed into Libya

435
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Speaker 16: from the outside.

436
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Speaker 1: The regime's secrecy makes it difficult to know exactly how

437
00:24:53,431 --> 00:24:58,190
Speaker 1: common public executions were, but there are documented instances of

438
00:24:58,191 --> 00:25:01,670
Speaker 1: dissidence in Libya being hanged or executed by firing squad

439
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:05,951
Speaker 1: in the seventies, eighties and nineties. Hussein al Shafi told

440
00:25:05,991 --> 00:25:08,630
Speaker 1: me he remembers hearing about hangings before he was sent

441
00:25:08,671 --> 00:25:09,710
Speaker 1: to Abu Salim.

442
00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:14,150
Speaker 9: I remember in nineteen eighty four, Ladafi Wah used to

443
00:25:14,191 --> 00:25:18,311
Speaker 9: hang any opposition groups, you know, on the like a

444
00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:21,910
Speaker 9: basketball stadium, you know, like arena we have here, like

445
00:25:22,031 --> 00:25:24,630
Speaker 9: Spectrum center, you know. Can you imagine you wake up

446
00:25:24,671 --> 00:25:28,071
Speaker 9: in the morning, your governor taking people, hang them in

447
00:25:28,110 --> 00:25:31,710
Speaker 9: the stadium in front of everybody. He did this before

448
00:25:32,231 --> 00:25:35,151
Speaker 9: many times in the college in the university Libia university,

449
00:25:35,191 --> 00:25:36,551
Speaker 9: like in Trebly or Benghazi.

450
00:25:37,271 --> 00:25:38,350
Speaker 10: He takes them and.

451
00:25:38,311 --> 00:25:41,630
Speaker 9: They hang them and he kills the students because they

452
00:25:41,671 --> 00:25:43,471
Speaker 9: are a part of the opposition group.

453
00:25:43,791 --> 00:25:47,511
Speaker 1: Alshafi never attended an execution in person, but he did

454
00:25:47,511 --> 00:25:48,671
Speaker 1: see it happen on TV.

455
00:25:49,071 --> 00:25:51,791
Speaker 9: I see this once and then I go cry. You know,

456
00:25:51,791 --> 00:25:54,511
Speaker 9: I go hiding some in a room cry. I see look,

457
00:25:54,551 --> 00:25:59,110
Speaker 9: he's hanging people, and the crowd, the crowd supporting this.

458
00:25:59,791 --> 00:26:03,231
Speaker 10: Oh, Gadaffi, yeah, your them, call them.

459
00:26:03,511 --> 00:26:06,511
Speaker 1: The nineteen ninety six massacre at Abu Salim is now

460
00:26:06,551 --> 00:26:10,791
Speaker 1: considered Gaddafi's most brutal act, the pinnacle of his campaign

461
00:26:10,830 --> 00:26:14,511
Speaker 1: of violence against the Libyan people, but when it first happened,

462
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:17,711
Speaker 1: there was so little information about it that few took notice.

463
00:26:18,830 --> 00:26:21,830
Speaker 1: Reuters did report that some kind of deadly clash between

464
00:26:21,870 --> 00:26:24,791
Speaker 1: inmates and guards had taken place at the prison. An

465
00:26:24,791 --> 00:26:28,791
Speaker 1: Amnesty International called on Gadafi to order an investigation, but

466
00:26:28,830 --> 00:26:32,431
Speaker 1: that effort didn't go anywhere. Kadafi did not even acknowledge

467
00:26:32,471 --> 00:26:35,791
Speaker 1: the massacre, and the bodies of the dead were reportedly

468
00:26:35,870 --> 00:26:38,150
Speaker 1: dumped in a mass grave that has never been found.

469
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:45,311
Speaker 1: It wasn't until four years later that el Shafi was

470
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:49,871
Speaker 1: released from Abu Salim. It happened on June first, two thousand,

471
00:26:50,511 --> 00:26:53,870
Speaker 1: more than a decade after his arrest. He was never

472
00:26:53,911 --> 00:26:57,231
Speaker 1: told why, just as he was never formally charged or

473
00:26:57,271 --> 00:27:00,951
Speaker 1: convicted of anything in the first place. Elshafi went home

474
00:27:00,991 --> 00:27:04,710
Speaker 1: to Benghazi and started trying to get a passport. He

475
00:27:04,751 --> 00:27:08,110
Speaker 1: wanted to leave Libya and escape the Gadafi regime for good.

476
00:27:08,751 --> 00:27:12,350
Speaker 1: The passport still hadn't come when Elshafi started seeing reports

477
00:27:12,511 --> 00:27:15,830
Speaker 1: that world leaders, including from the United States, were changing

478
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:19,271
Speaker 1: their stance on Gadafi and inviting him in from the cold.

479
00:27:19,551 --> 00:27:23,071
Speaker 17: The orchestrated announcements of the deal in Britain and Washington

480
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:26,991
Speaker 17: portrayed Gaddafi's change of heart as the result of President

481
00:27:26,991 --> 00:27:29,830
Speaker 17: Bush's get them before they get you doctrine.

482
00:27:30,271 --> 00:27:33,071
Speaker 1: The man who had imprisoned El Shafi and killed so

483
00:27:33,231 --> 00:27:37,711
Speaker 1: many of his fellow inmates was being officially rehabilitated. After

484
00:27:37,791 --> 00:27:40,830
Speaker 1: decades of railing against the imperialist powers of Europe and

485
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:45,071
Speaker 1: the United States, Gaddafi was finding common cause with the West.

486
00:27:45,191 --> 00:27:48,870
Speaker 8: American oil companies and the Libyan government could benefit from

487
00:27:48,951 --> 00:27:51,911
Speaker 8: Libya's newly announced plan to give up trying to develop

488
00:27:51,991 --> 00:27:53,311
Speaker 8: weapons of mass destruction.

489
00:27:53,791 --> 00:27:56,630
Speaker 1: El Shafi remembers being enraged when he heard that one

490
00:27:56,671 --> 00:27:59,311
Speaker 1: of Gaddafi's sons was coming to the United States for

491
00:27:59,390 --> 00:28:03,231
Speaker 1: meetings at the State Department. Alshafi assumed that it meant

492
00:28:03,231 --> 00:28:05,951
Speaker 1: the US was going to start selling Gaddafi weapons.

493
00:28:06,191 --> 00:28:08,950
Speaker 10: I said, fuck politics, fuck the money people.

494
00:28:09,031 --> 00:28:14,751
Speaker 9: First, if you Invagadavi sons and you give him whapons,

495
00:28:15,551 --> 00:28:19,591
Speaker 9: US administration as a color seem freaking Goadavi.

496
00:28:25,791 --> 00:28:29,470
Speaker 1: The process of normalizing relations between Gaddafi's Libya and the

497
00:28:29,551 --> 00:28:32,791
Speaker 1: United States began towards the end of the Clinton administration.

498
00:28:33,630 --> 00:28:37,510
Speaker 1: Gaddafi was desperate to have sanctions against Libya lifted, and

499
00:28:37,630 --> 00:28:40,831
Speaker 1: as a first step, he agreed in nineteen ninety nine

500
00:28:41,271 --> 00:28:44,431
Speaker 1: to surrender two Libyans who were suspected of carrying out

501
00:28:44,471 --> 00:28:48,151
Speaker 1: the Locker bebombing. But it wasn't until the Bush years

502
00:28:48,271 --> 00:28:50,471
Speaker 1: and the start of the War on Terror that the

503
00:28:50,551 --> 00:28:54,151
Speaker 1: relationship between the US and Libya really started to improve.

504
00:28:55,991 --> 00:28:57,991
Speaker 1: In the wake of the invasion of Iraq in the

505
00:28:58,031 --> 00:29:02,511
Speaker 1: fall of Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi was spooked. He became convinced

506
00:29:02,551 --> 00:29:05,431
Speaker 1: that if he didn't make certain concessions, he would be next,

507
00:29:06,511 --> 00:29:08,951
Speaker 1: and so after months of secret talks with the Bush

508
00:29:08,951 --> 00:29:12,431
Speaker 1: White House, Kadafi agreed to give up his nascent nuclear

509
00:29:12,431 --> 00:29:15,671
Speaker 1: program and to allow weapons inspectors into Libya.

510
00:29:15,791 --> 00:29:18,631
Speaker 4: Libya's surprise announcement that it will give up its weapons

511
00:29:18,671 --> 00:29:21,471
Speaker 4: of mass destruction is reverberating worldwide.

512
00:29:21,551 --> 00:29:24,351
Speaker 1: The Bush administration hailed it as a diplomatic triumph.

513
00:29:24,551 --> 00:29:28,751
Speaker 4: Today in Tripoli, Libya has begun the process of rejoining

514
00:29:28,871 --> 00:29:32,911
Speaker 4: the Community of Nations. Its good faith will be returned.

515
00:29:34,351 --> 00:29:37,511
Speaker 18: Without the Iraq War, the trajectory of the US Libya

516
00:29:37,551 --> 00:29:40,111
Speaker 18: relationship would have been much much different.

517
00:29:40,591 --> 00:29:43,551
Speaker 1: This is Ethan Chorin. He was sent to Tripoli by

518
00:29:43,551 --> 00:29:45,991
Speaker 1: the State Department in two thousand and four, who was

519
00:29:46,031 --> 00:29:48,431
Speaker 1: his first posting as a member of the Foreign Service.

520
00:29:48,951 --> 00:29:52,311
Speaker 18: I had a great privilege of being one of the

521
00:29:52,671 --> 00:29:55,911
Speaker 18: few diplomats who was sent to Libya to help open

522
00:29:55,991 --> 00:29:57,991
Speaker 18: up what would eventually become the Embassy.

523
00:29:58,591 --> 00:30:01,470
Speaker 1: Chorin, the author of a book about Libya called Exit.

524
00:30:01,511 --> 00:30:04,111
Speaker 1: The colonel explained to me that making a deal with

525
00:30:04,191 --> 00:30:07,591
Speaker 1: Kaddafi was specifically attractive to the Bush White House as

526
00:30:07,631 --> 00:30:09,470
Speaker 1: a follow up to the invasion of Iraq.

527
00:30:10,191 --> 00:30:15,351
Speaker 18: The neo conservative cabel in Washington looking for the next move, essentially,

528
00:30:15,391 --> 00:30:19,391
Speaker 18: and they were weren't interested in Kadafi until essentially it

529
00:30:19,471 --> 00:30:21,631
Speaker 18: dawned on a few people that the relationship with Kadafi

530
00:30:21,671 --> 00:30:24,591
Speaker 18: could actually solve several of the problems that the Iraq

531
00:30:24,671 --> 00:30:27,470
Speaker 18: War was not solving, as in, there were no weapons

532
00:30:27,471 --> 00:30:31,871
Speaker 18: of mass destruction found in Iraq, but Kadafi ostensibly had

533
00:30:32,071 --> 00:30:34,431
Speaker 18: something that you could call such a program, and he

534
00:30:34,511 --> 00:30:35,431
Speaker 18: was willing to give it up.

535
00:30:36,151 --> 00:30:39,711
Speaker 1: Chorn's point here was that Kadafi's weapons program was extremely

536
00:30:39,791 --> 00:30:43,831
Speaker 1: rudimentary and that sacrificing it was mostly a symbolic gesture

537
00:30:45,031 --> 00:30:47,591
Speaker 1: for the Bush White House. The more practical benefits of

538
00:30:47,631 --> 00:30:51,551
Speaker 1: reconciling with Kadafi were one that American companies could start

539
00:30:51,591 --> 00:30:55,190
Speaker 1: doing business in Libya, and two that the Kadafi regime

540
00:30:55,351 --> 00:30:57,271
Speaker 1: could be helpful in the war on terror.

541
00:30:59,991 --> 00:31:03,951
Speaker 8: Kadafi says, intelligence agencies in Libya and the US are

542
00:31:04,031 --> 00:31:05,951
Speaker 8: exchanging information.

543
00:31:06,031 --> 00:31:08,791
Speaker 1: The terrorists America was now hunting in the Middle East

544
00:31:08,831 --> 00:31:14,111
Speaker 1: and North Africa. Daffi's longtime enemies too. All through the nineties,

545
00:31:14,151 --> 00:31:16,631
Speaker 1: he had been at war with Islamist groups suspected of

546
00:31:16,671 --> 00:31:20,511
Speaker 1: having connections to Al Qaida. In fact, in nineteen ninety eight,

547
00:31:20,751 --> 00:31:23,751
Speaker 1: the Gaddafi regime had issued an Interpol arrest warrant for

548
00:31:23,751 --> 00:31:26,190
Speaker 1: Oslam Bin Laden on the basis that al Qaeda had

549
00:31:26,231 --> 00:31:30,151
Speaker 1: been working with radicals in Libya. Reporter Lindsay Hilsom.

550
00:31:30,151 --> 00:31:35,671
Speaker 16: Again, Gaddaffi became afraid of the Islamists, and a lot

551
00:31:35,711 --> 00:31:39,831
Speaker 16: of Islamists went to Afghanistan and they joined al Qaeda,

552
00:31:40,031 --> 00:31:43,710
Speaker 16: and they became very senior in al Qaeda. Their aim

553
00:31:43,911 --> 00:31:47,190
Speaker 16: was to overthrow Gadaffi. But they were part of this

554
00:31:47,391 --> 00:31:52,191
Speaker 16: international Jihat, and of course that was the international Gia

555
00:31:52,191 --> 00:31:54,911
Speaker 16: had which you know on nine to eleven flew into

556
00:31:54,911 --> 00:31:57,311
Speaker 16: the Twin Towers and murdered all the Americans.

557
00:31:59,151 --> 00:32:02,791
Speaker 1: It was a convenient alliance. The United States got access

558
00:32:02,831 --> 00:32:05,950
Speaker 1: to intelligence from a government operating in close proximity to

559
00:32:06,031 --> 00:32:09,511
Speaker 1: many extremist groups, and Gaddafi got an ally in his

560
00:32:09,591 --> 00:32:12,230
Speaker 1: quest to eliminate one of the only major threats to

561
00:32:12,271 --> 00:32:12,671
Speaker 1: his power.

562
00:32:12,911 --> 00:32:16,671
Speaker 2: Kalybean leader Mamar al Kadafi is now being called an

563
00:32:16,791 --> 00:32:19,391
Speaker 2: enemy of Islam by al Qaeda.

564
00:32:19,991 --> 00:32:23,151
Speaker 1: Between all that and the oil contracts, it was enough

565
00:32:23,191 --> 00:32:26,271
Speaker 1: to convince the White House that Kaddafi was worth the baggage.

566
00:32:26,551 --> 00:32:29,111
Speaker 4: The first time in almost a quarter century, the US

567
00:32:29,431 --> 00:32:31,751
Speaker 4: has diplomatic ties with Libya.

568
00:32:32,111 --> 00:32:35,231
Speaker 1: The US mission and Tripoli had been abandoned in nineteen eighty,

569
00:32:35,871 --> 00:32:38,791
Speaker 1: shortly after a crowd of demonstrators set the embassy on fire.

570
00:32:39,911 --> 00:32:43,471
Speaker 1: Now American diplomats would be returning to Libya to build

571
00:32:43,511 --> 00:33:01,551
Speaker 1: a new one. We'll be right back for a certain

572
00:33:01,631 --> 00:33:05,230
Speaker 1: kind of diplomat. Libya was a dream assignment, a country

573
00:33:05,311 --> 00:33:08,751
Speaker 1: everyone knew had been warped by decades of dictatorship, but

574
00:33:08,791 --> 00:33:12,871
Speaker 1: which remained a black box. Ethan Chorin arrived in Libya

575
00:33:12,911 --> 00:33:14,991
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, and he was excited.

576
00:33:15,391 --> 00:33:17,911
Speaker 18: I was very eager. This was, like, you know, exactly

577
00:33:17,911 --> 00:33:19,791
Speaker 18: what I had joined the Foreign Service to do, to

578
00:33:19,791 --> 00:33:22,391
Speaker 18: have a crazy experience where I felt like I could

579
00:33:22,831 --> 00:33:23,591
Speaker 18: make an impact.

580
00:33:24,071 --> 00:33:26,471
Speaker 1: It was up to choren and his State Department colleagues

581
00:33:26,511 --> 00:33:29,671
Speaker 1: to figure out what was going on in Libya, how

582
00:33:29,711 --> 00:33:32,510
Speaker 1: the Goadathi regime was running things, and what they wanted

583
00:33:32,511 --> 00:33:36,951
Speaker 1: from their new relationship with America. Chorin was also tasked

584
00:33:36,951 --> 00:33:40,190
Speaker 1: with briefing American companies on the Libyan market and writing

585
00:33:40,231 --> 00:33:43,271
Speaker 1: an official State Department guide to doing business in the country.

586
00:33:43,711 --> 00:33:46,431
Speaker 18: And effectively, we were sent out there and told just

587
00:33:46,471 --> 00:33:48,751
Speaker 18: to you know, go find what you can find. We

588
00:33:48,791 --> 00:33:51,151
Speaker 18: don't know much about this place, so see what you

589
00:33:51,151 --> 00:33:51,470
Speaker 18: can do.

590
00:33:52,431 --> 00:33:55,190
Speaker 1: As Chorin was finding his feet in Tripoli, he was

591
00:33:55,191 --> 00:33:58,591
Speaker 1: introduced over email to another diplomat who was also interested

592
00:33:58,631 --> 00:34:02,231
Speaker 1: in Libya. Chris Stevens was working out of Washington, d C.

593
00:34:02,391 --> 00:34:04,470
Speaker 1: At the time, but he had made it known to

594
00:34:04,551 --> 00:34:06,871
Speaker 1: his superiors of the State Department that he wanted to

595
00:34:06,871 --> 00:34:09,511
Speaker 1: be posted in Libya at the next available opportunity.

596
00:34:10,231 --> 00:34:12,271
Speaker 18: He was bidding on a position after me in Libya,

597
00:34:12,351 --> 00:34:15,511
Speaker 18: and he had just had this sort of enthusiasm. This

598
00:34:15,551 --> 00:34:17,391
Speaker 18: is like one of the last places in the Middle

599
00:34:17,391 --> 00:34:20,631
Speaker 18: East that sort of completely off limits to Americans and unknown,

600
00:34:21,230 --> 00:34:24,631
Speaker 18: and that clearly excited him, and it's excited me.

601
00:34:26,951 --> 00:34:29,230
Speaker 1: Stevens had been in the Foreign Service for about twenty

602
00:34:29,351 --> 00:34:32,750
Speaker 1: years after starting and abandoning a career as an international

603
00:34:32,791 --> 00:34:33,391
Speaker 1: trade lawyer.

604
00:34:33,710 --> 00:34:36,350
Speaker 3: They could have led a comfortable life in Washington, DC,

605
00:34:36,551 --> 00:34:38,790
Speaker 3: making a lot of money as a trade lawyer, but

606
00:34:38,871 --> 00:34:40,351
Speaker 3: it wasn't enough for him.

607
00:34:40,551 --> 00:34:43,270
Speaker 1: This is journalist Paul Richter. He's the author of the

608
00:34:43,311 --> 00:34:46,791
Speaker 1: book The Ambassadors, in which he details Chris Stevens's tenure

609
00:34:46,831 --> 00:34:47,710
Speaker 1: at the State Department.

610
00:34:47,911 --> 00:34:50,631
Speaker 3: So at a rather old age he went into the

611
00:34:50,671 --> 00:34:54,190
Speaker 3: Foreign Service. It was basically kind of a second career

612
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:54,710
Speaker 3: for him.

613
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:58,231
Speaker 1: From the start, Stevens was particularly interested in the Middle

614
00:34:58,230 --> 00:35:01,071
Speaker 1: East and North Africa. Before he put in his bid

615
00:35:01,071 --> 00:35:03,271
Speaker 1: for a post in Libya. He had worked in Egypt,

616
00:35:03,351 --> 00:35:06,991
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia and Jerusalem. He told friends he possessed a

617
00:35:07,071 --> 00:35:09,790
Speaker 1: gene that drew him to the Arab world, a trait

618
00:35:10,111 --> 00:35:12,911
Speaker 1: apparently shared with a long line of Western diplomats.

619
00:35:13,591 --> 00:35:16,190
Speaker 3: There's been a certain romance about the Middle East that

620
00:35:16,311 --> 00:35:21,631
Speaker 3: goes back to T. E. Lawrence and other British and

621
00:35:21,951 --> 00:35:27,551
Speaker 3: Europeans who saw some mystery, some fascination that they didn't

622
00:35:27,591 --> 00:35:29,631
Speaker 3: see in other parts of the world.

623
00:35:31,230 --> 00:35:34,790
Speaker 1: One of Stephens's chief influences was a book called The Arabists,

624
00:35:35,111 --> 00:35:37,751
Speaker 1: which traces the history of American diplomacy in the Middle

625
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:41,230
Speaker 1: East from its roots in missionary work and British imperialism.

626
00:35:41,951 --> 00:35:44,871
Speaker 1: This earlier generation of Middle East specialists was part of

627
00:35:44,871 --> 00:35:48,551
Speaker 1: a long colonial history of Westerners romanticizing the Arab world

628
00:35:49,471 --> 00:35:53,230
Speaker 1: starting in the nineteenth century. These diplomats and adventurers often

629
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:57,111
Speaker 1: wrote about the region as ancient, otherworldly, and almost mystical.

630
00:35:57,991 --> 00:36:01,911
Speaker 3: There is probably a colonialist dimension to it in their attitude,

631
00:36:01,951 --> 00:36:05,950
Speaker 3: and some of that. There's something about the serenity. There's

632
00:36:05,991 --> 00:36:09,471
Speaker 3: something about the harshness of the atmosphere and the beauty

633
00:36:09,471 --> 00:36:12,511
Speaker 3: of the vironment that draws them, and there is something

634
00:36:12,551 --> 00:36:16,511
Speaker 3: about the exotic nature of the Arab world that they

635
00:36:16,591 --> 00:36:20,031
Speaker 3: just can't find in other places, and they keep going

636
00:36:20,431 --> 00:36:21,071
Speaker 3: back to it.

637
00:36:21,511 --> 00:36:24,310
Speaker 1: As Richter described it to me, Stevens was attracted to

638
00:36:24,351 --> 00:36:27,351
Speaker 1: the lifestyle Libya offered and the feeling of timelessness he

639
00:36:27,431 --> 00:36:27,991
Speaker 1: found there.

640
00:36:28,551 --> 00:36:33,230
Speaker 3: He liked going out and enjoying goat met cooked over

641
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:37,911
Speaker 3: a Bedouin campfire in the desert. He enjoyed talking to

642
00:36:38,111 --> 00:36:41,511
Speaker 3: these Arabs who could tell you the history of their

643
00:36:41,551 --> 00:36:46,231
Speaker 3: families going back many generations. These Arabs would talk about

644
00:36:46,270 --> 00:36:49,951
Speaker 3: their distant relatives as if they died only a few

645
00:36:50,031 --> 00:36:53,710
Speaker 3: years ago, and then later Stephens would discover that they

646
00:36:53,710 --> 00:36:56,311
Speaker 3: were talking about people who died centuries ago.

647
00:36:56,791 --> 00:37:00,431
Speaker 1: For Stevens, the US opening to Gaddafi was an opportunity

648
00:37:00,471 --> 00:37:02,671
Speaker 1: to discover a place that had been closed off from

649
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:07,111
Speaker 1: the West for decades. In emails to Ethan Schorin, Stevens

650
00:37:07,151 --> 00:37:09,431
Speaker 1: made clear how excited he was at the prospect of

651
00:37:09,431 --> 00:37:10,350
Speaker 1: being posted there.

652
00:37:10,750 --> 00:37:13,711
Speaker 18: Chris would write and ask something along lines of should

653
00:37:13,710 --> 00:37:15,790
Speaker 18: I tay you know, as interesting as I think it is.

654
00:37:16,270 --> 00:37:19,071
Speaker 18: I would describe what I was experiencing there and the

655
00:37:19,111 --> 00:37:21,230
Speaker 18: positives and negatives and I have just had a sense

656
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:24,591
Speaker 18: that he understood and he too was willing to take

657
00:37:24,671 --> 00:37:27,190
Speaker 18: some risks to have that kind of an experience.

658
00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:31,830
Speaker 1: In many ways, Stevens's defining feature as a diplomat was

659
00:37:31,871 --> 00:37:35,031
Speaker 1: his openness to risk and his willingness to sit down

660
00:37:35,071 --> 00:37:37,591
Speaker 1: and talk to people whom others might have considered enemies.

661
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:41,270
Speaker 1: In two thousand and six, when he was posted in Jerusalem,

662
00:37:41,631 --> 00:37:45,071
Speaker 1: Stephens served as a liaison to the PLO, the Palestine

663
00:37:45,111 --> 00:37:46,190
Speaker 1: Liberation Organization.

664
00:37:46,471 --> 00:37:50,391
Speaker 4: The Palestinian elections had a stunning outcome, a landslide victory

665
00:37:50,431 --> 00:37:54,350
Speaker 4: for harmas official results today showed the aslam.

666
00:37:54,111 --> 00:37:57,151
Speaker 1: That same year, when the militant group Hamas was elected

667
00:37:57,190 --> 00:38:00,710
Speaker 1: to a majority in the Palestinian legislature, Stevens expressed hope

668
00:38:00,750 --> 00:38:02,951
Speaker 1: that the United States would engage with them instead of

669
00:38:02,951 --> 00:38:04,391
Speaker 1: writing them off as terrorists.

670
00:38:04,951 --> 00:38:09,911
Speaker 3: After Hamas had won that election, Stephens wrote his closest friends,

671
00:38:10,190 --> 00:38:15,350
Speaker 3: family and said, I hope the American side doesn't misinterpret this.

672
00:38:15,951 --> 00:38:20,270
Speaker 3: I hope they understand that Islamists are not always villainous

673
00:38:20,270 --> 00:38:22,391
Speaker 3: and maybe we can work, Maybe we can find a

674
00:38:22,391 --> 00:38:24,591
Speaker 3: way to deal with them.

675
00:38:24,911 --> 00:38:28,310
Speaker 1: In this respect, Stevens represented one side of a long

676
00:38:28,351 --> 00:38:31,950
Speaker 1: standing debate in the world of American foreign policy about

677
00:38:31,951 --> 00:38:34,111
Speaker 1: whether the United States should give the benefit of the

678
00:38:34,151 --> 00:38:38,751
Speaker 1: doubt Islamist political leaders in the Arab world. Stevens believed

679
00:38:38,791 --> 00:38:41,591
Speaker 1: there were different kinds of Islamists. He once wrote that

680
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:44,311
Speaker 1: Islamist doesn't necessarily translate to extremist.

681
00:38:45,111 --> 00:38:49,230
Speaker 3: I think he was always willing to open a conversation

682
00:38:49,391 --> 00:38:53,830
Speaker 3: with people from pretty scary Islamist backgrounds. I tell a

683
00:38:53,871 --> 00:38:57,230
Speaker 3: story about his meetings with one militia leader where he

684
00:38:57,391 --> 00:39:01,551
Speaker 3: stayed up way into the night to debate East German

685
00:39:01,631 --> 00:39:05,230
Speaker 3: political theory with this guy who had been fighting as

686
00:39:05,230 --> 00:39:08,471
Speaker 3: a jihadist in Afghanistan couple of years before.

687
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:12,750
Speaker 1: Stevens's friend posture towards Islamist groups distinguished him from some

688
00:39:12,791 --> 00:39:17,430
Speaker 1: of his colleagues, including Ethan Chorin. Chorin believed then as

689
00:39:17,511 --> 00:39:21,230
Speaker 1: now that America must be supremely careful when dealing with Islamists,

690
00:39:21,391 --> 00:39:24,951
Speaker 1: whether they're hardliners or moderates. When I spoke to Chorin,

691
00:39:25,351 --> 00:39:27,790
Speaker 1: it was clear he was troubled by Stevens's outlook on

692
00:39:27,831 --> 00:39:31,391
Speaker 1: the Arab world, and more specifically his approach to diplomacy

693
00:39:31,431 --> 00:39:35,751
Speaker 1: in Libya. For Chorin, the tragedy of the Bengazi attack

694
00:39:36,031 --> 00:39:38,071
Speaker 1: is that it might have been prevented if Stevens and

695
00:39:38,111 --> 00:39:41,071
Speaker 1: his State Department colleagues back in Washington had taken the

696
00:39:41,151 --> 00:39:42,750
Speaker 1: Islamist threat more seriously.

697
00:39:43,391 --> 00:39:45,270
Speaker 18: But this is the heart of the Libya problem, is

698
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:48,431
Speaker 18: that there was this sort of long, disjointed or absent

699
00:39:48,511 --> 00:39:52,271
Speaker 18: period of uh in many decades where the US Libya

700
00:39:52,311 --> 00:39:56,031
Speaker 18: relationship with either non existent or very stressed. We didn't

701
00:39:56,071 --> 00:39:59,631
Speaker 18: know who all the parties were. There were certainly clues,

702
00:39:59,671 --> 00:40:02,710
Speaker 18: but we didn't know whom to trust. And there were

703
00:40:02,750 --> 00:40:05,270
Speaker 18: people in Libya at the time, you know, before the

704
00:40:05,311 --> 00:40:08,551
Speaker 18: attack who were basically saying, look, you Americans need to

705
00:40:08,591 --> 00:40:11,111
Speaker 18: watch out because the people who you're dealing with are

706
00:40:11,151 --> 00:40:14,551
Speaker 18: not your friends.

707
00:40:16,190 --> 00:40:19,071
Speaker 1: Knowing the difference between friends and enemies had always been

708
00:40:19,111 --> 00:40:22,191
Speaker 1: a problem for the American mission in Libya. Two weeks

709
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:24,751
Speaker 1: after Chris Stevens first arrived in Tripoli in the summer

710
00:40:24,791 --> 00:40:27,391
Speaker 1: of two thousand and seven, he was invited to Mulmar

711
00:40:27,391 --> 00:40:30,111
Speaker 1: Gadaffi's fortress for a banquet in honor of the French

712
00:40:30,190 --> 00:40:34,871
Speaker 1: president Nicholas Sarkozi. Stevens was introduced to Gaddafi briefly on

713
00:40:34,911 --> 00:40:38,031
Speaker 1: a receiving line journalist Paul Richter again.

714
00:40:38,351 --> 00:40:42,911
Speaker 3: And he saw at this event Kadafi's ambivalence toward the US.

715
00:40:43,551 --> 00:40:46,631
Speaker 3: Kadafi was hoping for a new relationship, and he was

716
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:50,710
Speaker 3: hoping for trade deals, for weapons deals, for a new

717
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:55,511
Speaker 3: opening with the world provided by his new friends, the Americans,

718
00:40:55,991 --> 00:40:59,951
Speaker 3: and yet his antipathy for the Americans still remained.

719
00:41:00,671 --> 00:41:03,991
Speaker 1: Gaddafi did not try to hide this antipathy, as Stevens

720
00:41:03,991 --> 00:41:07,151
Speaker 1: observed in letters to his family. The dinner for Sarkosi

721
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:09,471
Speaker 1: was staged directly in view of a building that had

722
00:41:09,511 --> 00:41:12,350
Speaker 1: been destroyed by American air strikes in nineteen eighty six.

723
00:41:13,471 --> 00:41:16,631
Speaker 1: Gaddafi had commemorated it with a plaque recalling the failed

724
00:41:16,671 --> 00:41:20,790
Speaker 1: American aggression. Near where Gadaffi and Sarkozi were sitting was

725
00:41:20,791 --> 00:41:23,871
Speaker 1: a massive gold sculpture of a fist crushing an American

726
00:41:23,871 --> 00:41:24,470
Speaker 1: fighter jet.

727
00:41:25,311 --> 00:41:29,471
Speaker 3: And there was a music played at the event, a

728
00:41:29,471 --> 00:41:34,270
Speaker 3: patriotic song about fighting off the enemies of Libya. And

729
00:41:34,591 --> 00:41:38,871
Speaker 3: this old anti American feeling that had sustained his regime

730
00:41:38,991 --> 00:41:41,270
Speaker 3: for so many decades was still there.

731
00:41:42,351 --> 00:41:45,790
Speaker 1: Despite this apparent tension, Chris Stevens and his colleagues in

732
00:41:45,791 --> 00:41:49,990
Speaker 1: Tripoli tried to build relationships with Gaddafi's inner circle, most

733
00:41:49,991 --> 00:41:53,391
Speaker 1: importantly his sons, who were widely regarded as the future

734
00:41:53,431 --> 00:41:54,031
Speaker 1: of the country.

735
00:41:54,471 --> 00:41:58,351
Speaker 12: Lu Mahgadafi has been married twice and has eight biological

736
00:41:58,431 --> 00:42:00,151
Speaker 12: children and to adopted.

737
00:42:00,431 --> 00:42:04,431
Speaker 1: In particular, Gaddafi's son Safe al Islam, emerged as his

738
00:42:04,431 --> 00:42:07,951
Speaker 1: father's heir apparent and made great efforts to present himself

739
00:42:07,991 --> 00:42:11,351
Speaker 1: to the West as a reasonable, moderated influence on the regime.

740
00:42:11,591 --> 00:42:14,671
Speaker 12: Say Al Islam may be the most recognized and out

741
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:18,871
Speaker 12: spoken of those offspring. He attended the London School of Economics,

742
00:42:18,911 --> 00:42:20,471
Speaker 12: saying as an advocate of reform.

743
00:42:20,750 --> 00:42:23,991
Speaker 1: By this point, Hussain al Shafi, the former prisoner at

744
00:42:23,991 --> 00:42:28,191
Speaker 1: Abu Sulim, had finally gotten his passport. At one point

745
00:42:28,270 --> 00:42:30,750
Speaker 1: during the three year process, he had to submit a

746
00:42:30,831 --> 00:42:35,390
Speaker 1: letter addressing Gaddafi personally. In it, Alshafi said he needed

747
00:42:35,431 --> 00:42:37,910
Speaker 1: to get to Egypt or Tunisia to seek medical help

748
00:42:37,951 --> 00:42:38,551
Speaker 1: for his wife.

749
00:42:39,071 --> 00:42:41,071
Speaker 10: I wrote a big petition.

750
00:42:41,230 --> 00:42:43,870
Speaker 9: Man, you'll be laughing if you see it like this,

751
00:42:44,551 --> 00:42:52,071
Speaker 9: Wamar Ghadafi, my presidents, my leader, my God. I am

752
00:42:52,190 --> 00:42:55,551
Speaker 9: the former prisoners with no charge applying for the nest.

753
00:42:55,710 --> 00:42:59,471
Speaker 9: I promise I will defend liberal revolution. I would defend Bukadafi.

754
00:43:00,031 --> 00:43:03,111
Speaker 9: I love you Ghadafi. I would be a good person,

755
00:43:03,151 --> 00:43:06,671
Speaker 9: a good citizens. I'll protect the greenpook in my heart.

756
00:43:06,750 --> 00:43:12,710
Speaker 9: I love green Pook. Please you follower your lover, Hossin

757
00:43:12,750 --> 00:43:13,311
Speaker 9: o Sofi.

758
00:43:14,270 --> 00:43:18,230
Speaker 1: For all that, El Shafi finally got his passport. Once

759
00:43:18,270 --> 00:43:20,151
Speaker 1: he did, he and his wife were able to fly

760
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:22,830
Speaker 1: to Switzerland, and from there they boarded a flight to

761
00:43:22,871 --> 00:43:26,231
Speaker 1: the United States. When I interviewed El Shaffie in twenty

762
00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:29,031
Speaker 1: twenty one, he was living in Charlotte, North Carolina, with

763
00:43:29,071 --> 00:43:33,231
Speaker 1: his family and operating a luxury car service. By this point,

764
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:35,111
Speaker 1: he was used to telling the story of the Abu

765
00:43:35,111 --> 00:43:38,310
Speaker 1: Salim massacre. One of the first things he did when

766
00:43:38,351 --> 00:43:40,591
Speaker 1: he arrived in the US was recount what he had

767
00:43:40,631 --> 00:43:43,671
Speaker 1: witnessed to a group of activists working with Human Rights Watch.

768
00:43:44,871 --> 00:43:48,151
Speaker 1: Back in Libya, Elshafi had kept his story to himself

769
00:43:48,311 --> 00:43:50,350
Speaker 1: out of fear that the regime would kill him for

770
00:43:50,431 --> 00:43:55,310
Speaker 1: spreading it. Remember, Gaddafi had barely acknowledged the massacre, and

771
00:43:55,391 --> 00:43:58,190
Speaker 1: the government had not even informed the victim's families that

772
00:43:58,230 --> 00:44:02,830
Speaker 1: their loved ones were dead. Lindsay Hilsome again, Bit by.

773
00:44:02,791 --> 00:44:05,951
Speaker 16: Bit, some people were released, and so they went to

774
00:44:05,991 --> 00:44:08,191
Speaker 16: see the families of the men who had been killed

775
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:13,551
Speaker 16: and gave them the bad news. And then the government

776
00:44:13,671 --> 00:44:16,750
Speaker 16: started to issue some death certificates which didn't say what

777
00:44:16,831 --> 00:44:20,031
Speaker 16: had happened. They just said, you know, your relative, your husband,

778
00:44:20,151 --> 00:44:24,071
Speaker 16: your son, your father died, and so they had some

779
00:44:24,471 --> 00:44:26,991
Speaker 16: kind of official.

780
00:44:26,591 --> 00:44:27,270
Speaker 7: Word of it.

781
00:44:27,951 --> 00:44:32,390
Speaker 16: And then the families began to join together because it

782
00:44:32,431 --> 00:44:35,631
Speaker 16: became clear that these weren't just deaths, these were murders.

783
00:44:35,991 --> 00:44:39,591
Speaker 7: Nobody knew anything about that fateful day for many years,

784
00:44:40,270 --> 00:44:43,071
Speaker 7: until the relatives of the victims began to protest the

785
00:44:43,151 --> 00:44:45,310
Speaker 7: killings and demand an explanation.

786
00:44:45,951 --> 00:44:48,831
Speaker 1: Human rights lawyers in Benghazi took on the family members

787
00:44:48,871 --> 00:44:52,310
Speaker 1: as clients and filed the legal claim demanding information from

788
00:44:52,351 --> 00:44:56,111
Speaker 1: the government. In two thousand and seven. The lawsuit gave

789
00:44:56,230 --> 00:45:00,551
Speaker 1: rise to the first public protest movement in modern Libyan history.

790
00:45:00,991 --> 00:45:04,591
Speaker 7: The relatives held protest rallies outside the Justice Department in

791
00:45:04,671 --> 00:45:07,671
Speaker 7: Benghazi after they heard about what came to be known

792
00:45:07,951 --> 00:45:10,511
Speaker 7: as Bloody Saturday at Abusli in prison.

793
00:45:12,791 --> 00:45:15,790
Speaker 16: Now, this was a very bold move. Nobody demonstrated or

794
00:45:15,831 --> 00:45:19,231
Speaker 16: protested in Gaddafi's Libya. But they didn't really care anymore.

795
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:21,790
Speaker 16: They'd lost everything, and so they started to do this,

796
00:45:21,871 --> 00:45:28,791
Speaker 16: demanding justice, demanding compensation, and they were really a new

797
00:45:28,991 --> 00:45:32,631
Speaker 16: group of opponents to the regime with an emotional power,

798
00:45:32,951 --> 00:45:35,631
Speaker 16: and it was quite hard for the authorities just to

799
00:45:35,631 --> 00:45:38,031
Speaker 16: lock them up and kill them because most of them

800
00:45:38,031 --> 00:45:38,911
Speaker 16: were old ladies.

801
00:45:41,391 --> 00:45:45,230
Speaker 1: The regime found the protesters impossible to ignore, and at

802
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:48,790
Speaker 1: the urging of Safe al Islam, Gaddafi's ostensibly moderate son,

803
00:45:49,511 --> 00:45:52,750
Speaker 1: the government started sending out death notices to hundreds of families,

804
00:45:53,391 --> 00:45:56,510
Speaker 1: finally confirming after more than twenty years, that their loved

805
00:45:56,511 --> 00:46:02,631
Speaker 1: ones had been killed. Still, the protest continued. Every Saturday,

806
00:46:02,671 --> 00:46:05,431
Speaker 1: the families would gather at the Benghazi courthouse, holding up

807
00:46:05,471 --> 00:46:07,270
Speaker 1: photos of the people they had lost and.

808
00:46:07,270 --> 00:46:11,310
Speaker 7: Praying, demanding the bodies of the loved ones from the

809
00:46:11,351 --> 00:46:12,391
Speaker 7: Gaddafi regime.

810
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:16,031
Speaker 1: For a while, it was just about the only visible

811
00:46:16,071 --> 00:46:19,791
Speaker 1: form of descent in Gaddafi's Libya. But that was about

812
00:46:19,791 --> 00:46:22,431
Speaker 1: to change, and for the second time in less than

813
00:46:22,471 --> 00:46:26,071
Speaker 1: a decade, the United States government would be reevaluating its

814
00:46:26,071 --> 00:46:41,871
Speaker 1: relationship with Muamar Gadafi. On the next episode of Fiasco,

815
00:46:42,471 --> 00:46:47,631
Speaker 1: Libya erupts in revolution, Gaddafi threatens to destroy Benghazi, and

816
00:46:47,710 --> 00:46:50,910
Speaker 1: America decides to get involved. Did you feel relieved when

817
00:46:50,951 --> 00:46:52,871
Speaker 1: you heard that the intervention had happened.

818
00:46:52,911 --> 00:46:54,231
Speaker 18: Did it lifts the pressure?

819
00:46:54,871 --> 00:46:56,231
Speaker 7: Yes, all of us.

820
00:46:57,311 --> 00:46:59,471
Speaker 11: You know he would have destroyed Binghazi.

821
00:47:00,431 --> 00:47:02,190
Speaker 10: He didn't want Benghazi anymore.

822
00:47:04,511 --> 00:47:07,671
Speaker 1: For a list of books, articles and documentaries we used

823
00:47:07,671 --> 00:47:10,431
Speaker 1: in our research, follow the link in our show notes.

824
00:47:11,391 --> 00:47:14,911
Speaker 1: Fiasco is a production of Prolog Projects, and it's distributed

825
00:47:14,911 --> 00:47:18,831
Speaker 1: by Pushkin Industries. The show is produced by Andrew Parsons,

826
00:47:19,031 --> 00:47:23,631
Speaker 1: Ula Culpa, Sam Lee and me Leon Mayfock, with editorial

827
00:47:23,631 --> 00:47:27,791
Speaker 1: support from Sam Graham Felsen and Madeline Kaplan. Our researcher

828
00:47:27,951 --> 00:47:31,951
Speaker 1: was Francis Carr. Our score was composed by Dan English,

829
00:47:32,111 --> 00:47:35,951
Speaker 1: Joe Valley and Noah Hecht. Additional music by Nick Selevester

830
00:47:36,151 --> 00:47:39,551
Speaker 1: and Joel Saint Julian. Our theme song is by Spatial

831
00:47:39,591 --> 00:47:43,911
Speaker 1: Relations Audio mixed by Rob Buyers, Michael Raphael and Johnny

832
00:47:43,951 --> 00:47:47,551
Speaker 1: Vince Evans. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips

833
00:47:47,591 --> 00:47:52,151
Speaker 1: and y Copyright Council provided by Peter Yassi at Yass

834
00:47:52,311 --> 00:47:58,311
Speaker 1: Butler PLLC. Thanks to Archive dot Org, muraud Idris, Nina,

835
00:47:58,391 --> 00:48:03,911
Speaker 1: Ernest tay Glass, Kerry Baker, Ismael Swea ellen Horn, Ben Ryder,

836
00:48:04,111 --> 00:48:08,910
Speaker 1: James Brandt, and Rachel Ward Special Thanks to Lubnary, and

837
00:48:09,111 --> 00:48:09,990
Speaker 1: thank you for listen