Speaker 1: Hey, Betrayal fans, I have exciting news to share. Season
Speaker 1: three of Betrayal is now a docuseries on Hulu. It's
Speaker 1: the gripping story of Stacy Tyler and the doctor who
Speaker 1: betrayed them. See the voices you've come to know in
Speaker 1: Betrayal Under his Eye, streaming now on Hulu.
Speaker 2: So we sat down and he was like, he doesn't
Speaker 2: believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask for
Speaker 2: one of them. And I was just like, what the
Speaker 2: hell is going on here? Like what is happening? And
Speaker 2: he was like, oh, do you know what? I think?
Speaker 2: I need to tell you a little bit about my
Speaker 2: family history.
Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about
Speaker 1: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
Speaker 1: change everything. Today, I want to introduce you to Bernie Brown.
Speaker 2: My entire life's being paycheck to paycheck. I'm just very
Speaker 2: clever with it. I've cut my own hair for the
Speaker 2: past twenty years and colored it because I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: if somebody else can do that, why can't I do that.
Speaker 1: While growing up in London, Bernie experienced a difficult upbringing.
Speaker 2: My childhood was very rough. My mum was extremely strong,
Speaker 2: but she was going through massive domestic violence with my
Speaker 2: dad at one point, very very seriously, we're talking like hospitalization.
Speaker 1: Bernie witnessed his dad's violence at a young age.
Speaker 2: I do remember one time walking into the kitchen and
Speaker 2: he had her up by a knife. I actually still
Speaker 2: remember to this day the layout of the room. I
Speaker 2: remember it very very vividly. She would be the punctioning
Speaker 2: bag to make or that we were never harmed.
Speaker 1: His mom was a pillar of strength.
Speaker 2: My mother. Everything I do and the person that I
Speaker 2: am now is because of who she was and what
Speaker 2: she showed me.
Speaker 1: What Bernie remembers most about his mom was how she
Speaker 1: always made everyone feel at home.
Speaker 2: She was always very house proud, always cleaning. When I
Speaker 2: hit school, my friends would come over to see her.
Speaker 2: She was very much an open door. The door was
Speaker 2: never locked, which was probably unsafe, but anyone knocked on
Speaker 2: the door, anyone who needed help, regardless of whether she
Speaker 2: had it or not, it would always be yes. And
Speaker 2: she was very very well known for that.
Speaker 1: When Bernie came out as.
Speaker 2: Gay, my family were lovely with I was very very
Speaker 2: very lucky that enabled me to actually be proud and
Speaker 2: celebrate it.
Speaker 1: He began to explore the queer scene in London.
Speaker 2: When you first come out as being gay, you've got
Speaker 2: the big clubs, you know, the Jyre Storia, which has
Speaker 2: closed down now. I spent many a happy even in there.
Speaker 2: Shall we say.
Speaker 1: Bernie was living his best life. It was a fun
Speaker 1: and exciting time, but deep down he was looking for
Speaker 1: real partnership.
Speaker 2: I really wanted to find somebody to settle down with.
Speaker 2: I just wanted that one on one connection. I don't
Speaker 2: remember actually witnessing a stable relationship, and I think that's
Speaker 2: why I so desperately needed one.
Speaker 1: At age eighteen, Bernie found what he was looking for.
Speaker 2: I met my first real boyfriend at the time in London.
Speaker 2: We moved to Newcastle, we bought a house, we had
Speaker 2: two dogs and two cars, and we had that life.
Speaker 2: I must have been twenty two twenty three, and it
Speaker 2: wasn't legal in the UK to get married at that point.
Speaker 2: So what we did we for a party and we
Speaker 2: legally changed our names, so we kind of had our
Speaker 2: little version of a wedding and it was just going amazingly.
Speaker 1: He had everything he wanted and it was great for
Speaker 1: about eight years, but.
Speaker 2: Then it just didn't work. When that failed. We were
Speaker 2: actually very close friends for about ten years after. I
Speaker 2: was best man at his wedding.
Speaker 1: After their relationship ended, Bernie's mother's health started to decline.
Speaker 1: At the age of forty six, she died of heart failure.
Speaker 2: We had that time to say goodbye, which rarely do
Speaker 2: people get. I could actually process it there and then,
Speaker 2: and we both said what we felt and you know
Speaker 2: what she wanted from us in life.
Speaker 1: Now, Bernie felt truly out on his own. He was
Speaker 1: newly single and starting over in this city.
Speaker 2: I was in London. Of course I had flings and
Speaker 2: you know all of them that come with it. But
Speaker 2: every single time I would never see somebody or sleep
Speaker 2: with somebody and instantly just disregard. There would always be
Speaker 2: an element of could disco further.
Speaker 1: He was a romantic, but Bernie knew he had to
Speaker 1: prioritize himself and his career. After years of working in retail,
Speaker 1: Bernie wanted to start a brand of his own, so
Speaker 1: he started saving everything he could to start his own
Speaker 1: clothing brand.
Speaker 2: I've never never had money at all, but I've always
Speaker 2: worked very, very hard for the money that I do have.
Speaker 2: I've always wanted to work for myself, not answer to
Speaker 2: any one. So I started a clothing T shirt business,
Speaker 2: like my own prints and sell them online. And I
Speaker 2: was like, it's my time. Let me build something that's
Speaker 2: my own.
Speaker 1: Even though Bernie was working a lot, he still wanted
Speaker 1: to have a good time.
Speaker 2: I don't need the relationship at the minute, but you know,
Speaker 2: you need the physical side of it.
Speaker 1: So he went on Grinder, the dating app for gay men.
Speaker 2: So I was using it happily. I'd actually met some
Speaker 2: quite good friends. Now. I actually do still remember the
Speaker 2: message come through because I had a glass of wine
Speaker 2: and I was sat with a glass of wine and
Speaker 2: I got the famous I remember that there was something intriguing.
Speaker 2: It was very well written and not the usual first
Speaker 2: opening message that you get on that kind of app
Speaker 2: in a forward. Do you know it's a nice breath
Speaker 2: of fresh air. There's nothing on her. I'll just entertain it.
Speaker 1: His name was Leo, and Bernie had never seen him
Speaker 1: on the app before.
Speaker 2: I've not seen you around here before, and it's like, no,
Speaker 2: I live in central London by Hyde Park, just around
Speaker 2: the corner from Harrod Toe and the other. Instantly I
Speaker 2: was like, well hold on there, like twenty pounds.
Speaker 1: Bernie didn't know anyone with a house in Hyde Park.
Speaker 1: That was a completely different world.
Speaker 2: Bearing in mind it's grinder. You instantly just think, okay,
Speaker 2: all right, this fictional whatever, so you entertain and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, lovely fine.
Speaker 1: Leo was quick to ask him on a date.
Speaker 2: He was like, I'm not big talking on these apps.
Speaker 2: I'm around the corner. Why didn't you come over? Nothing untoward.
Speaker 2: It was like, just you know, let me cook you
Speaker 2: some dinner and we'll just have a glass off wine.
Speaker 2: And I then was like, oh, this is very sweet.
Speaker 2: He's very well spoken.
Speaker 1: In addition to his apartment in London, Leo also had
Speaker 1: a luxury trailer, an airstream that he kept at a
Speaker 1: high end campground.
Speaker 2: They've got their own unique garden and plots and all
Speaker 2: of these. It's beautiful. So I was like, okay, this
Speaker 2: is nice. And there's this big, beautiful white range Rover
Speaker 2: that was sat next to it. He was very articulate,
Speaker 2: and he did speak Queen's English. It's very smooth, that
Speaker 2: pronounces every word as intended by her Majesty the Queen.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I need to, like,
Speaker 2: you know, I need to up it a notch.
Speaker 1: Leo made a delicious dinner.
Speaker 2: Instantly, I was taken in just his charm. I've never
Speaker 2: met anybody with that smooth charm that isn't patronizing. It
Speaker 2: just was focused on me and we had an amazing meal.
Speaker 1: Bernie was really enjoying himself. He liked talking to Leo
Speaker 1: and they bonded over cars.
Speaker 2: He went through his picture gallery and he had all
Speaker 2: of these cars. We had the Bentley's, we had Aston Martin's,
Speaker 2: we had quite a few range Rovers, some old classics,
Speaker 2: and he was just flicking through and he was like,
Speaker 2: this is my pride and joy, I love cars and
Speaker 2: this and the other.
Speaker 1: The pictures also showed that Leo had serious money, a
Speaker 1: lot of it.
Speaker 2: You can kind of tell when somebody's got old money
Speaker 2: or new money. New money is very much the designer
Speaker 2: head to toe, and all of this old money is
Speaker 2: you can't really tell if they've got money. They're the chinos,
Speaker 2: the nice shirt, the neck tie, that kind and that's
Speaker 2: how he was.
Speaker 1: But Bernie didn't understand why he asked him to come
Speaker 1: to his trailer instead of his London apartment.
Speaker 2: At that point, he just said he was from a
Speaker 2: very influential family within the UK, and because of his family,
Speaker 2: he can't be out, he can't be gay, so to
Speaker 2: escape all of the craziness, he needs somewhere to get away.
Speaker 2: And he said, nobody knows about this caravan, like his
Speaker 2: family don't know, security doesn't know. So for him, it's
Speaker 2: just his little getaway to just be himself. So I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, fine, but at that point I didn't
Speaker 2: know who his family was.
Speaker 1: Bernie ended up staying and hanging out with Leo for hours.
Speaker 2: It got dark, it must have been around about eleven
Speaker 2: to twelve o'clock at night. It was like, oh, let's
Speaker 2: go inside, Let's go in the caravan, and we sat
Speaker 2: in the sofa area and just had a conversation were
Speaker 2: there's something very weird that happened. It was like, do
Speaker 2: you mind if I ask you to do something? Can
Speaker 2: you just undress in front of me. I won't touch,
Speaker 2: I won't do anything like that buried in way. I
Speaker 2: probably had a bottle of wine. So I did and
Speaker 2: I got naked and he didn't and it was like
Speaker 2: just turn around for me and that was it, and
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, you can get dressed now. I
Speaker 2: was like what was all that about. It was just like,
Speaker 2: I've not been with many men, so I'm a little
Speaker 2: bit nervous. Instantly, I was like, oh, that's so sweet.
Speaker 1: They kissed good night, and Bernie got a taxi home.
Speaker 2: Next morning, I woke up and of course there was
Speaker 2: the most beautiful message that was on my phone and
Speaker 2: he was like, look, I really want to see you again.
Speaker 2: I can't get you out in my mind, this and
Speaker 2: the other, and we just had normal conversation through the day.
Speaker 2: I just started feeling a bit warm. I was just like,
Speaker 2: is this really happening.
Speaker 1: They decided on a second date.
Speaker 2: So again I went over. We had something to eat.
Speaker 2: The conversation was effortless, the subjects, it was just it
Speaker 2: was so smooth. It was as if I'd known him
Speaker 2: for years. It was so easy. And then we started
Speaker 2: kissing and this, that and the other. And then he
Speaker 2: I remember, he started coughing, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: is everything okay? And I was like, yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm very, very nervous. So I was like, listen,
Speaker 2: let's just sit take it slow, and you know, see
Speaker 2: where we go. Nothing has to happen. And then we
Speaker 2: went back to it and with things were happening, and
Speaker 2: then he kind of had a coughing fit and he
Speaker 2: actually got really serious that. I was like, I'll get
Speaker 2: you a glass of water. So I got in my
Speaker 2: glass of water and he would not stop coughing. So
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm just going to step outside because
Speaker 2: by this point he was bringing things up. It was
Speaker 2: not romantic at all. And I was outside for about
Speaker 2: about ten minutes and all you could hear was this
Speaker 2: hacking up. And at that point I stood there and
Speaker 2: I was like, what do I do? Do I go do?
Speaker 2: I just like to leave, but then my car keys
Speaker 2: are in there. This is really awkward. So then he
Speaker 2: called me back in and we had this conversation and
Speaker 2: he just apologized. And that's when he said that he's
Speaker 2: got a few health issues and it's like he's getting
Speaker 2: them checked up and it's nothing too serious to worry
Speaker 2: about at the minute. And he was like so apologetic.
Speaker 2: I was like, honestly, it's fine, let's just watch something.
Speaker 2: Calm down. I was like, it's generally not a big deal.
Speaker 1: After Leo recovered from his coughing fit, Bernie stayed and
Speaker 1: they ended up having a really lovely evening.
Speaker 2: We had a few dates at that point. It was like,
Speaker 2: can I come to yours? So I was like, do
Speaker 2: you know what, Yes, come to mine. I will cook
Speaker 2: us a nice meal. And then that's the first time
Speaker 2: that he came round and he brought the Bentley. This
Speaker 2: Bentley Continental white thing pulled up and I was like,
Speaker 2: what the hell is this.
Speaker 1: Bernie had seen the pictures of Leo's cars, but he
Speaker 1: was skeptical that Leo really owned all of them.
Speaker 2: All the way up until that point, and that was
Speaker 2: a few weeks in. I took everything with a pinch
Speaker 2: of salt. And then I think that was the first
Speaker 2: time when the Bentley pulled up, I'm like, but hold on,
Speaker 2: if this is true.
Speaker 1: The Bentley was impressive.
Speaker 2: I'd never even been close to a Bentley jorna ride,
Speaker 2: so I was like yes, I was like, come on,
Speaker 2: So I got in and we went for a drive
Speaker 2: and oh my god, it goes fast, beautiful car.
Speaker 1: Later that night, when they were deep in conversation.
Speaker 2: It slipped in and I was like, oh, I've got
Speaker 2: to go down to the Castle today for whatever event
Speaker 2: I have to. I'm being dragged down and I was like, Castle,
Speaker 2: what's this and it was like, oh, do you know
Speaker 2: what I think? I need to tell you a little
Speaker 2: bit about my family history.
Speaker 1: Bernie was really enjoying getting to know Leo, a guy
Speaker 1: he met on Grinder. He knew Leo came from money,
Speaker 1: and after a few dates, he confided in Bernie about
Speaker 1: his family's backstory.
Speaker 2: So he sat down and he was like, right, he
Speaker 2: doesn't believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask
Speaker 2: for one of them. And I was just like, what
Speaker 2: the hell is going on here?
Speaker 1: Like what is happening a non disclosure agreement? Bernie wasn't following,
Speaker 1: but then.
Speaker 2: He opened up with do you know who the Norfolks are?
Speaker 2: And I said no, I have no idea who that is.
Speaker 2: So then he went through the family history. So it
Speaker 2: was like, my dad's brother is the Duke of Norfolk.
Speaker 2: I didn't know who that was. He was like, the
Speaker 2: Duke of Norfolk is the highest peerage in the UK
Speaker 2: outside of the Royal family. So it's literally the royal family,
Speaker 2: then the estate of the Duke of Norfolk. They're bloodline royals,
Speaker 2: they're just not direct in line to the front. Obviously.
Speaker 2: I had a little look on Google and you can
Speaker 2: see on his profile, who the Duke of Norfolk and
Speaker 2: the immense responsibility that he has within Britain. So I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, fine, so that's your dad's brother. He
Speaker 2: was like yeah.
Speaker 1: And Leo's title.
Speaker 2: He was Viscount Norfolk.
Speaker 1: The second and the castle he'd mentioned offhand was a
Speaker 1: Rundel Castle, a thousand year old architectural masterpiece in the
Speaker 1: south of England.
Speaker 2: And it was like, let me show you something, because
Speaker 2: at that point he'd brung an overyebag and he had
Speaker 2: this Cartier box, quite slim and opened. It was a
Speaker 2: crest with flower spikes all around it, circular shape with
Speaker 2: the Saint George's cross in the middle, then had some
Speaker 2: inscriptions on it and it had the House of Norfolk
Speaker 2: and fitz Allen, and he said, we have to carry
Speaker 2: this everywhere we go, badges and emblems and crests because
Speaker 2: if somebody passes they need it instantly for a sign
Speaker 2: of respect and all this. I held it. It was
Speaker 2: so heavy and I was just like, what is going
Speaker 2: on in my life? Ride this minute in time? You know,
Speaker 2: I've got somebody here that is amazing and like so
Speaker 2: into me. But at the same time, also with the
Speaker 2: Bentley upfront and I'm sitting here holding this big royal crest.
Speaker 1: Bernie couldn't wrap his mind around it, and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know what to say. And it was like,
Speaker 2: it's fine, It's like, just ask any questions that you
Speaker 2: have and I was like, I literally don't have questions,
Speaker 2: Like my mind his blank.
Speaker 1: This was really big. Leo came from a very important
Speaker 1: and complicated world. Bernie didn't know what it would mean
Speaker 1: for his relationship with Leo.
Speaker 2: He was like, I want to keep us separate. You
Speaker 2: know that I have to do this with you. I
Speaker 2: want to do and he was like, until we figure
Speaker 2: out how or if we can mix this, let's just
Speaker 2: try it. So I was like, look, I'm fine with that.
Speaker 2: I'm not here and I never have been impressed by money. Obviously,
Speaker 2: I'm impressed by the Bentley, but I'm not here for
Speaker 2: anything other than you.
Speaker 1: This was a pivotal moment. The conversation deepened their connection.
Speaker 2: That was then the first day that he had opened
Speaker 2: up and he trusted me. He trusted me with his
Speaker 2: secret and his family and his line. I think that
Speaker 2: was the first time that I was like, yeah, he
Speaker 2: really likes me.
Speaker 1: Leo let Bernie into his inner circle, but he made
Speaker 1: it clear privacy and discretion was critical.
Speaker 2: The first few months after that, it was amazing. He
Speaker 2: really genuinely wanted to see me happy and to take
Speaker 2: care of me.
Speaker 1: Bernie and Leo were spending more and more time with
Speaker 1: each other.
Speaker 2: He pretty much moved in. I think that was about
Speaker 2: a month and a half in. I gave McKey and
Speaker 2: I literally just said, you know, use it whenever you want.
Speaker 1: Leo never missed a moment to make Bernie feel loved.
Speaker 2: If I was on a late shift, I would finish
Speaker 2: ten eleven o'clock at night, and then he would be
Speaker 2: there with dinner with flowers. At that minute in time,
Speaker 2: I had felt the happiest, settled and loved. Then I
Speaker 2: would probably say bar my mom than I had ever
Speaker 2: felt in my life.
Speaker 1: Even though Leo came from a wealthy background, he worked
Speaker 1: hard and had a career he was passionate about.
Speaker 2: He knew about watches, he was a horologist, he had
Speaker 2: been to Switzerland, studied at the best places. He absolutely
Speaker 2: knew everything. He had space to do a little studio.
Speaker 2: He was taking all of these rolexes apart and in
Speaker 2: front of me, putting them back together, and then he
Speaker 2: was like, I'm licensed by Rolex to do that.
Speaker 1: It was a very competitive certification. But luxury watches were
Speaker 1: Leo's life.
Speaker 2: He always had Rolex Flip on his arm.
Speaker 1: Within a few months, they were spending almost every night together.
Speaker 1: They were exclusive. Bernie was starting to think that Leo
Speaker 1: could be the one. There was only one big concern,
Speaker 1: and that was Leo's health. It was there from the beginning,
Speaker 1: but Bernie was seeing his symptoms worsen. Leo wasn't just coughing,
Speaker 1: he was now throwing up.
Speaker 2: He went silent for I want to say two days. Now.
Speaker 2: By that point, please realize that two days, when I
Speaker 2: am now fully into this, fully into the emotion, is
Speaker 2: like two weeks.
Speaker 1: During those two days, Bernie was desperate to hear from Leo.
Speaker 1: While he waited, his mind began to spin.
Speaker 2: What have I done? Have I said something? I went
Speaker 2: back through WhatsApps and this is only two days of
Speaker 2: no conversation. I went through WhatsApps to find out what
Speaker 2: I've said that he could possibly take offense with anyway.
Speaker 2: He eventually came back and basically apologized for not being
Speaker 2: in contact with me over the two days.
Speaker 1: Leo had a good reason for being out of touch.
Speaker 1: He'd been in the hospital.
Speaker 2: He was like, I can't say anything over the phone,
Speaker 2: but I just need to get out of London my
Speaker 2: family going into a panic, and try to keep this maintained,
Speaker 2: you know, make sure that it doesn't go to any press.
Speaker 2: He was like, can I just come to yourselves? Like absolutely.
Speaker 2: At that point, he told me that he was suffering
Speaker 2: from brain cancer and they've given him a year to live,
Speaker 2: and obviously he had a lot of process and that
Speaker 2: he needed to do.
Speaker 1: Bernie was devastated. He wanted to be there for Leo
Speaker 1: any way he could.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to sit here and be quiet. You
Speaker 2: talk to me, you vent me, you get your frustrations out,
Speaker 2: anything that is in your mind. I was like, you
Speaker 2: literally throw them at me. This is what I'm here
Speaker 2: to do. And he did, and he got upset, he
Speaker 2: got angry, he was crying, and then he got to
Speaker 2: the US conversation and he said, I can't really see
Speaker 2: you anymore.
Speaker 1: Leo didn't want to be a burden.
Speaker 2: He was like, look, I can't promise you anything. If
Speaker 2: this is how my life is going to end, there's
Speaker 2: bits may not be pretty, and I was like, look,
Speaker 2: I really don't care. I was like, if I have
Speaker 2: to be a complete secret, even if we have to
Speaker 2: break up, just I want to be your friend. It
Speaker 2: wasn't about any of the sex or the relationship for me.
Speaker 2: It was this person that was in front of me.
Speaker 1: To Bernie's surprise, Leo even brought up as well.
Speaker 2: He was like, obviously he can't change that because if
Speaker 2: he put my name in there, they all questions will
Speaker 2: come up with who. And I was like, I really
Speaker 2: do not care. I was like, I literally do not
Speaker 2: care about any of that. I was like, if you
Speaker 2: get to that point, I will be here as much
Speaker 2: as you need me to.
Speaker 1: Leo couldn't come out to his family, so in order
Speaker 1: for Bernie to stay in his life, he suggested Bernie
Speaker 1: pretend to be his assistant or driver. It was the
Speaker 1: kind of arrangement Bernie wouldn't have agreed to under normal circumstances,
Speaker 1: but he was willing to do anything to make sure
Speaker 1: he could care for Leo.
Speaker 2: So he agreed, and I meant it one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: not a second guess in my mind.
Speaker 1: So Bernie immediately focused on helping Leo make sense of
Speaker 1: his diagnosis.
Speaker 2: I went online. I researched the hell out of it
Speaker 2: down to all different methods, and I mean I did
Speaker 2: go crazy with it, to be honest. I was there
Speaker 2: for at least an entire twenty four hours googling research
Speaker 2: and what this meant experimental drugs, and like, I just
Speaker 2: went to town with everything that I could find out.
Speaker 1: But Leo had already accepted that he didn't have much
Speaker 1: time left.
Speaker 2: He was talking about that he might not actually go
Speaker 2: for chemo because he just wants to just end it
Speaker 2: on his terms in Switzerland. That was a conversation that
Speaker 2: we had. And then that's when we went onto a
Speaker 2: conversation about I think I need to start living my
Speaker 2: life while I've got it, and I was like, right, okay,
Speaker 2: so let's do that.
Speaker 1: For Leo, living his life to the fullest meant finally
Speaker 1: launching his own watch restoration business that would be his legacy.
Speaker 1: He had a collection of incredible luxury watches and he
Speaker 1: couldn't take them with him.
Speaker 2: One day he said to me, I've got all of
Speaker 2: these watches. I might just start selling them because I
Speaker 2: kind of like swap in a buying trade on this site.
Speaker 2: And He's like, I kind of want to build something,
Speaker 2: so instantly I kicked in. I was like, I can
Speaker 2: build you a website. Let's register this company, and I did.
Speaker 2: We had quite a few business meetings on how the
Speaker 2: logo is going to look, what it's called, setting up
Speaker 2: all of the social media for it, and I sat
Speaker 2: on my little photoshop and I'd done the logo and
Speaker 2: the company was called The Vintage Crown.
Speaker 1: Leo wanted Bernie to list all of his watches and
Speaker 1: post them online, so he brought his entire collection to
Speaker 1: Bernie's house.
Speaker 2: We came up and he literally had about two three
Speaker 2: trunks of watches. I mean, I've got all the pictures
Speaker 2: on my phone. Still, there was countless Rolelexes. There was
Speaker 2: the tet Feliks, there was Van Kleef and Urpools. They
Speaker 2: were stunning. There must have been i'd say close to
Speaker 2: one hundred one hundred watches in my lounge on this table.
Speaker 2: And there was this very very old Rolex. The gloss,
Speaker 2: the watch face was quite rounded.
Speaker 1: Bernie picked up the watch. It was heavy and ornate.
Speaker 2: It was like, this is probably the most expensive watch
Speaker 2: that I own, and I was like, well, how much
Speaker 2: is it worth? It was like you check it out.
Speaker 2: So it's like, go on the Rolex website, turn the
Speaker 2: watch over. I typed in the cerial number and it
Speaker 2: came in at one point two million. At that point,
Speaker 2: I probably had aboute hundred pound in my bank account,
Speaker 2: so I'm like one point two million. It was just
Speaker 2: insane to think of the money that was sat right
Speaker 2: in front of me.
Speaker 1: Leo had a staggering collection of luxury watches, and as
Speaker 1: Bernie helped Leo launch his new watch business, Bernie got
Speaker 1: a taste of that world. Like when Bernie came with
Speaker 1: him to run errands at high end London department.
Speaker 2: Stores and whenever we walked into Harold's, they knew of him.
Speaker 2: They addressed him by his name, talking about previous purchases
Speaker 2: that he had made, and full conversations.
Speaker 1: He even asked Bernie to go to Selfridges, another luxury
Speaker 1: department store in London for an exclusive event.
Speaker 2: It's a private party of VIP, but it would be
Speaker 2: quite nice if you can come with me just to
Speaker 2: experience a bit of that lifestyle. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: like absolutely yeah, I'll come out. So we got dressed,
Speaker 2: made away into central London, walk into Selfridges and it
Speaker 2: was red carpet, all of that.
Speaker 1: This event was a big deal, and Leo was a
Speaker 1: big deal. There. Everyone greeted him by name and immediately
Speaker 1: people were vying for his attention.
Speaker 2: So he went into this private VIP area through the door.
Speaker 1: Leo was there to look at a specific.
Speaker 2: Watch, and then he sent me a message and was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we've kind of done with the finance side, do you
Speaker 2: want to come in? So I was absolutely so I
Speaker 2: went in and it was a private room with a
Speaker 2: head of European sales. The room was gorgeous. We had
Speaker 2: or dirves that were laid out and the watches were
Speaker 2: laid out in front of me. These ridiculous, I mean
Speaker 2: the price of a house, these watches in front of us,
Speaker 2: and it was just this woman, Leo and me.
Speaker 1: Leo bought two watches that day as gifts for family members.
Speaker 1: With Bernie's help, Leo's watch business got off the ground,
Speaker 1: and as a thank you, he would let Bernie borrow
Speaker 1: some of the pieces.
Speaker 2: If we'd go for dinner, he'd give me a Rolex
Speaker 2: or a a tech Philippin. He then called one day
Speaker 2: and he said, this Rolex has come my way for
Speaker 2: me to recondition and to sell. It's just a Sa Mariner.
Speaker 2: I've got quite a few of them anyway. But he
Speaker 2: was like, I thought of you.
Speaker 1: Leo was making him an offer.
Speaker 2: He was like, look, you buy it off of me
Speaker 2: for twenty thousand. I will recondition it, I'll make it
Speaker 2: look as good as new, i will polish it, I
Speaker 2: will have it back up. And it's usually worth about
Speaker 2: thirty to forty thousand.
Speaker 1: Twenty grand up front. It would be a huge investment
Speaker 1: for Bernie. And then Leo would resell it at a
Speaker 1: profit of at least ten thousand pounds.
Speaker 2: Of course, it would be amazing. That extra ten ground
Speaker 2: for me at this minute in time would open up doors.
Speaker 2: I've never had just a ten thousand pounds sum in
Speaker 2: my account.
Speaker 1: But Bernie didn't have twenty thousand pounds just lying around.
Speaker 2: And I was all right. I was like at the
Speaker 2: first I just don't have anywhere near that money whatsoever. Literally,
Speaker 2: I think for my entire life it's been paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 2: I'm just very clever with it. Nowhere do I have
Speaker 2: that kind of money.
Speaker 1: Leo had an idea, what about Bernie's clothing business. It
Speaker 1: wasn't as successful as the watch sales.
Speaker 2: So he said, well the clothes was like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's taking too much of your time. Is it really
Speaker 2: doing anything? And I was like, it's getting a bit tiring,
Speaker 2: And so I said, look, why don't you just sell
Speaker 2: sell all of the clothes just in bulk. Somebody will
Speaker 2: buy it it, sell the website off, like, sell the business,
Speaker 2: get this watch, and then use that lump sum for
Speaker 2: how whatever you want to do your next project.
Speaker 1: Bernie had a few ideas for new businesses he wanted
Speaker 1: to start. The investment in the watch represented a new chapter,
Speaker 1: so he started crunching the numbers.
Speaker 2: I was like, look, I can take this money out
Speaker 2: of all of my credit cards. But if I do
Speaker 2: that with my bills, my wage in retail will it
Speaker 2: won't even cover half of all them repayments in one
Speaker 2: go by maxing out them cars. So he said, look,
Speaker 2: once I've got the money, it will take about a
Speaker 2: week for the watch to get here. So I will
Speaker 2: recondition it, I'll get it sent to you. You'll sell
Speaker 2: it before you next get paid if I get it.
Speaker 2: But I'd never do anything to hurt you. This is
Speaker 2: for your benefit. Look, if it's too much then you
Speaker 2: know what, let's just not do it. Let's just just
Speaker 2: forget about it completely. And by that point I was like,
Speaker 2: I'd already kind of imagined if I sell all of
Speaker 2: this stuff and I take from these credit cards, by
Speaker 2: the end of it, I could have ten to twenty
Speaker 2: thousand pounds, which is just mine to do with. So
Speaker 2: I was like, right, okay, I trust him one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: let's just do this. Bernie was in So I sold
Speaker 2: the website off and then I think that only got
Speaker 2: about half of it, maybe a little bit more. And
Speaker 2: then I did have a few credit cards, so I
Speaker 2: got rid of the final bits of the clothes, took
Speaker 2: out from every credit card that I had, maxed it out,
Speaker 2: and gave it him.
Speaker 1: Bernie got fifteen thousand pounds from maxed out credit cards.
Speaker 1: For the rest of the money, he took out an
Speaker 1: incredibly high interest loan.
Speaker 2: These payday loans, the interest rate is seventy nine percent
Speaker 2: per month, and that's more than what you've borrowed.
Speaker 1: Bernie was putting everything on the line. He sent Leo
Speaker 1: the twenty thousand, and Leo ordered the watch.
Speaker 2: It'd been delivered to his Hyde Park address.
Speaker 1: But it was the week of Christmas and Leo wasn't home.
Speaker 1: He was at the castle.
Speaker 2: He has responsibilities around the UK, so he was up
Speaker 2: there doing official business and he will get.
Speaker 1: To it with the holidays. It could be a week
Speaker 1: before Leo got to the watch. That meant weeks before
Speaker 1: they could resell it.
Speaker 2: That's when I started panicking because at that point there
Speaker 2: is absolutely no way that I am going to be
Speaker 2: able to cover that next payment. And I told him
Speaker 2: that I am getting nervous because I know the tsunami
Speaker 2: that's coming if this isn't paid.
Speaker 1: But Leo was calm. He handled deals like this all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: He just kept reassuring me, saying, look, there's a little
Speaker 2: bit of a delay. I've got a buyer. I've got
Speaker 2: somebody that's interested. As soon as I can get my
Speaker 2: hands down to this watch. It will take me one
Speaker 2: day to recondition it because it's in very good quality,
Speaker 2: and I will literally have a buyer for you within
Speaker 2: twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: After that, Leo seemed to change. The loving calls and
Speaker 1: texts started dwindling.
Speaker 2: The communication with me and him went very sparse. The
Speaker 2: morning messages, which by this point had constantly continued If
Speaker 2: I had even to the point if he was staying
Speaker 2: at mine and I woke up at four in the
Speaker 2: morning to go to work, when he woke up, I
Speaker 2: would still get that morning message.
Speaker 1: And now those techs stopped coming. Their connection started to
Speaker 1: feel less like a romantic relationship and more like a
Speaker 1: business partnership.
Speaker 2: It went from loving and just amazing conversations to all
Speaker 2: about the watch.
Speaker 1: For Bernie, this cold shoulder really hurt. Obviously he was
Speaker 1: concerned about the watch, but that wasn't what he really
Speaker 1: cared about.
Speaker 2: I am fully in depth, I am fully in love
Speaker 2: with him.
Speaker 1: In seven months, Leo had become the center point of
Speaker 1: his life.
Speaker 2: He was my world at that point, and there was
Speaker 2: nothing else that I was concentrated on. I had stopped
Speaker 2: talking to my friend, even my best friend. I'd stopped
Speaker 2: talking to my family, and all of a sudden, this
Speaker 2: person is completely disregarding me. I was panicking then. I
Speaker 2: was then going back to that state. What have I done?
Speaker 2: What have I said? I know it's Christmas. I don't
Speaker 2: want to contact him too much because I know that
Speaker 2: he's working and he's probably with people with his family.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I'm panicking because I'm not
Speaker 2: getting that response. Then comes Christmas Eve and he kind
Speaker 2: of goes silent a little bit, and then I get
Speaker 2: Christmas Eve. I get a few messages, very cold, and
Speaker 2: it was like I'm with people, I can't talk. I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, I just wanted to wish you a
Speaker 2: merry Christmas.
Speaker 1: It was important for Leo to spend time with his
Speaker 1: family because he had so little time left. Maybe the
Speaker 1: reality of his diagnosis was finally hitting him. Bernie understood
Speaker 1: why Leo might be pulling away, but it still starts.
Speaker 2: Next morning, I did actually get quite a nice message.
Speaker 2: It's just like Merry Christmas, handsome and blah blah blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. I instantly my mood I was uplifted. I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's okay. What's your plans for today?
Speaker 2: It was I went straight into that puppy mode like
Speaker 2: he could do no wrong. And he said, I'm with
Speaker 2: my family all day. I won't be able to contact
Speaker 2: you for the next two days. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: that's absolutely fine. I get it. It's Christmas, you are
Speaker 2: supposed to spend that with your family.
Speaker 1: Bernie spent that Christmas alone waiting for a message from Leo.
Speaker 1: But that day Bernie noticed something strange.
Speaker 2: It seemed like.
Speaker 1: Leo was actually spending Christmas Day with another man, someone
Speaker 1: Bernie had never seen before.
Speaker 2: There was a picture on his WhatsApp update. It was him,
Speaker 2: but there was somebody else in the background. There was
Speaker 2: this guy just walking towards the camera, looking directly in
Speaker 2: the camera as if he was going to say something,
Speaker 2: and it was the inside of a church, and it
Speaker 2: just bugged me.
Speaker 1: For a few days, Bernie stared at the photo, practically
Speaker 1: memorizing every detail.
Speaker 2: Anyway, So on the twenty seventh, heet messaged. I was like, sorry,
Speaker 2: I've not been I've been with family, this and the other.
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, how was your Christmas to check
Speaker 2: up to so much? And he was like, no, we
Speaker 2: just really stayed around the castle and then we didn't
Speaker 2: really do anything. I was like, oh, what about the church?
Speaker 2: I was like, what church? And then it was just
Speaker 2: like I was like, oh, I just saw your update
Speaker 2: on your WhatsApp and it was a picture of a church.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: You didn't see anything.
Speaker 1: But Bernie had looked at the photo over and over
Speaker 1: he knew what he saw and I.
Speaker 2: Was like, no, it was I didn't do an update.
Speaker 2: That was no update. And then he got into such
Speaker 2: denial he was adamant and quite nasty with it that
Speaker 2: I completely made it up. I did not see it.
Speaker 2: There was nothing on his profile.
Speaker 1: It was the first time Leo had acted like this.
Speaker 1: He was defensive and angry over something so small. He
Speaker 1: knew it meant Leo might be hiding something. So Bernie
Speaker 1: pulled back a bit.
Speaker 2: I kind of slowed down message in him. I don't
Speaker 2: get a call again quite late at night, and it's
Speaker 2: like I've just had a massive argument with my family.
Speaker 1: On the other end of the phone, Leo was hysterical.
Speaker 2: And he's like, Bernie, I can't take this. I can't
Speaker 2: take this life anymore, the stress that I've been under.
Speaker 2: I just don't like my family. I don't want to
Speaker 2: do this anymore. Can you come and get me? So
Speaker 2: of course I've then said yes instantly. Where are you?
Speaker 2: Calm down, stay on the phone with me.
Speaker 1: Leo sent an address. It was a five hour drive
Speaker 1: from London, so Bernie got in the car and stayed
Speaker 1: on the phone with Leo while he drove through the
Speaker 1: night to meet him. At two am, he picked up
Speaker 1: Leo and brought them to a hotel.
Speaker 2: We stayed the night. We had a long conversation about
Speaker 2: his stress levels and he's sorry that he's been distant
Speaker 2: and he doesn't how to cope with this as well
Speaker 2: as his diagnosis. And at the end of this he'll
Speaker 2: get the watch. He's going to go down, he'll get it,
Speaker 2: and if he hasn't got it by this point, he
Speaker 2: will give me the money and then sell it on himself.
Speaker 2: And I just felt seeing and he was in tears.
Speaker 2: He went asleep and I was stroking his hair. It
Speaker 2: was as if this guy was broken, broken with life.
Speaker 1: There in the hotel room, Bernie finally fell close to
Speaker 1: Leo again. Leo needed him, and Bernie would do anything
Speaker 1: to make him happy. The next morning, Leo seemed renewed,
Speaker 1: back to his old self. He confessed to Bernie that
Speaker 1: he had been hiding something. Now he was finally ready
Speaker 1: to talk about it.
Speaker 2: It's like, so, I've got a serious question that I
Speaker 2: need to ask you, and I've been thinking about this
Speaker 2: with everything that's been going on, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: and it was like I've had enough of this entire
Speaker 2: life that I have to do and I'm done with it.
Speaker 2: I want to move away. And he was like, I
Speaker 2: want to move somewhere in Scotland. Would you come with me?
Speaker 2: And I was like sorry, I was like what. I
Speaker 2: was like, I've seen this house. I've been thinking about
Speaker 2: this for a long time and I was going to
Speaker 2: go on my own. And that's why I've been distant
Speaker 2: because I didn't know what I was going to do.
Speaker 2: But I want you to come with me.
Speaker 1: Leo was dead serious. He was ready to put in
Speaker 1: an offer on a house.
Speaker 2: I was like, I've already contacted the estate agent. This
Speaker 2: house was a full on castle in the Scottish Islands.
Speaker 2: When you think the quintessence English castle. It was exactly that.
Speaker 1: They looked at the listening together and started imagining a
Speaker 1: new life there. They wouldn't have to hide from Leo's
Speaker 1: family or the press. Bernie could take care of Leo
Speaker 1: as his cancer progressed, and whatever came next, they could
Speaker 1: face it together.
Speaker 2: It's like, I just wanted to be me and you
Speaker 2: and I was like yes. And it's difficult now to
Speaker 2: really kind of explain exactly how it felt, because his
Speaker 2: world at certain points starts to crumble and he has
Speaker 2: to get what he can do and run to create
Speaker 2: another life for himself. But in the end it was
Speaker 2: all a lie.
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I emailed Arundel Cars,
Speaker 1: which is the official residence of the Duke of Norfolk.
Speaker 2: There was absolutely no record of Leo Howard, Leo Bosehoward
Speaker 2: or absolutely anything. So then I started doing my own research.
Speaker 2: This person, this Leo Howard, there was absolutely no trace.
Speaker 1: Before we end the episode, I have some exciting news.
Speaker 1: Betrayal will be doing our first ever live show as
Speaker 1: part of the Virgin Voyage's True Crime Cruise. We'll be
Speaker 1: answering listener questions and discussing them live on stage with
Speaker 1: Stacey and Tyler from Betrayal season three, as well as
Speaker 1: Caroline from season four. So if you have a question
Speaker 1: for us, please email us at betrayalpod at gmail dot
Speaker 1: com with the subject line listener question and if you
Speaker 1: want to join us on the Caribbean cruise, there are
Speaker 1: still spots available search Virgin Voyages dot com true Crime.
Speaker 1: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
Speaker 1: team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email
Speaker 1: us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram
Speaker 1: at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content,
Speaker 1: and connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at
Speaker 1: Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.
Speaker 1: One way to show support is by subscribing to our
Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and
Speaker 1: review Betrayal five star reviews go a long way. A
Speaker 1: big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is
Speaker 1: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment
Speaker 1: Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive
Speaker 1: produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced
Speaker 1: by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Olivia Hu
Speaker 1: and Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers
Speaker 1: are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcuri. Casting support from Curry Richmond.
Speaker 1: Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio
Speaker 1: editing and mixing by Matt del Vechio. Additional audio editing
Speaker 1: by Tanner Robbins, betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music
Speaker 1: library provided by mob Music and for more podcasts from iHeart,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts