1
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:01,440
Speaker 1: Hey, what's up, everybody.

2
00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:05,120
Speaker 2: I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to Politics and I Heeart

3
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 2: Podcast and unbothered production.

4
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical.

5
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,360
Speaker 2: The W and BA season didn't make it a week

6
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,720
Speaker 2: before we got another chapter in the Angel Rees and

7
00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 2: Caitlin Clark rivalry, featuring more toxic conversations that frankly sucked

8
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,880
Speaker 2: the air out of what was an otherwise tremendous start

9
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,479
Speaker 2: to the season. It all started when Kaitlyn Clark was

10
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 2: called for a flagrant file for wrapping up Angel Reaves

11
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,440
Speaker 2: underneath the basket and pushing her to the floor. It

12
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 2: was a basketball play because the point was no easy layups,

13
00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,400
Speaker 2: a standard rule in competitive basketball. Upgrading it to a

14
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,640
Speaker 2: flagrant totally understandable because it was an obvious push. Now,

15
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 2: Angel Rees didn't like it, and she let Caitlyn Clark

16
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,440
Speaker 2: and all of the Indiana Fever know about it.

17
00:00:58,600 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 1: Though Angel, I.

18
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,360
Speaker 2: Love girl, but you know damn well, you wasn't about

19
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 2: to swing on Kaitlyn Clark. But I get it, as

20
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,319
Speaker 2: has been the case throughout their history. The hot takes

21
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,680
Speaker 2: were scorching about this incident, and one of the hottest

22
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,520
Speaker 2: and most sizzling came from former NFL quarterback and former

23
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:21,199
Speaker 2: ESPN analysts Robert Griffin on Twitter, RG three posted, after

24
00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 2: watching Kaitlyn Clark's flagrant foul on Angel Rease in the aftermath,

25
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 2: there is no way Angel Rees can continue the lie

26
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 2: that she doesn't dislike Kaitlyn Clark. I know what hatred

27
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 2: looks like. Angel Rees hates Kaitlyn Clark. Not some basketball

28
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 2: rivalry hate either, hate word hatred Now. RG three elaborated

29
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,440
Speaker 2: more on his YouTube show, where he was led in

30
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 2: on pretty thick in calling out Angel Reese. And I

31
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,080
Speaker 2: couldn't help but notice that as he's tearing down Angel Rees,

32
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 2: his wife, who is white, is chilling in the background

33
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 2: giving enthusiastic approval. Now, I'm gonna be totally honest. Those

34
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 2: optics not a good look. And my former colleague Ryan

35
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,000
Speaker 2: Clark took things a step further and pointed out that

36
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 2: perhaps one of the reasons RG three did not understand

37
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 2: how tone death his comments were about Angel Rees is

38
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,960
Speaker 2: because of certain conversations he probably ain't having in his

39
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 2: own house.

40
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 3: And so, now, if you're RG three, when's the last

41
00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,080
Speaker 3: time within your household you've had a conversation about what

42
00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 3: she's dealing with? You haven't been able to do that

43
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,840
Speaker 3: because in both of your marriages, you've been married to

44
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,679
Speaker 3: white women. You haven't had opportunities to have those conversations

45
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 3: to educate you on what they're feeling, what black women

46
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,000
Speaker 3: deal with, what they're seeing when they think of a

47
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,680
Speaker 3: young Angel Rease and the whole time that he's mimicking

48
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,119
Speaker 3: Angel Rease and bobbing his head and moving his neck.

49
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 3: While he's doing this whole piece, his wife is in

50
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,480
Speaker 3: the back a mining and clapping.

51
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,639
Speaker 2: You bring somebody's spouse into the mix, things definitely gonna

52
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:51,240
Speaker 2: get spicy.

53
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,480
Speaker 1: And here was RG three's response.

54
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,600
Speaker 4: There's a line in life that you just simply don't cross.

55
00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,560
Speaker 4: Wives and children are always off limits. And Ryan Clark

56
00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,960
Speaker 4: has sprinted past that line. Ryan Clark didn't like my

57
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 4: sports take that Angel Rees hates Kaitlin Clark. And that's fine,

58
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 4: It's okay. It's part of the game sports media. I'm

59
00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,080
Speaker 4: gonna have an opinion. This person might not agree with it.

60
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,720
Speaker 4: That person might not agree with it. But what you

61
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,240
Speaker 4: don't do is turn around and personally attack me and

62
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 4: my family just because you don't agree with a sports

63
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,240
Speaker 4: opinion that is purely based off the sport. I didn't

64
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,960
Speaker 4: make it personal, but what that really shows is just

65
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,080
Speaker 4: how low of a person Ryan Clark is.

66
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,520
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. RG three's opinion wasn't a sports take.

67
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,000
Speaker 2: He doesn't know Angel Rees, he didn't talk to Angel Rees.

68
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 2: He didn't know Caitlyn Clark either. His observation that Angel

69
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 2: Rees hates Caitlin Clark isn't about sports, but about something

70
00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,400
Speaker 2: he senses is more personal. Now, what Ryan was pointing

71
00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 2: out was a lack of self awareness. And I certainly

72
00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 2: don't care how many white wives are has had. Who

73
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,720
Speaker 2: he loves is his business, but this is ultimately a

74
00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 2: conversation about cultural competency. Angel Reese's very existence rubs a

75
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,080
Speaker 2: lot of people the wrong way. No one knows for

76
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,800
Speaker 2: sure how she feels about Caitlyn Clark, but what we

77
00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 2: do know from Angel Reese's own public comments is that

78
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,920
Speaker 2: she feels a way that she isn't given more credit for.

79
00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,320
Speaker 2: How she also has added to the popularity of women's

80
00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:27,800
Speaker 2: basketball in this moment.

81
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,839
Speaker 5: I think so many people are watching women's basketball right now.

82
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 5: It all started from the National Championship Game, and I've

83
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 5: been dealing with this for two years now and understanding like, yeah,

84
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,080
Speaker 5: negative things have probably been said about me, but honestly,

85
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 5: I'll take that because look where women's basketball is. People

86
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,359
Speaker 5: are talking about women's basketball. You never would think that

87
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 5: we talk about women's basketball. People are pulling up to games.

88
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,039
Speaker 5: We got celebrities coming to games, sold out arenas, like

89
00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 5: just because of one single game and just looking at that, like,

90
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 5: I'll take that role. I'll take the bad guy role,

91
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,239
Speaker 5: and I'll continue to take that on and be that

92
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 5: for my teammates. And if I want to be that,

93
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 5: and I know I'll go down in history. I'll look

94
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,799
Speaker 5: back in twenty years and be like, yeah, the reason

95
00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,120
Speaker 5: why we're watching women's basketball is not just because of

96
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:06,559
Speaker 5: one person.

97
00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:07,360
Speaker 6: It's because of me too.

98
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:08,720
Speaker 1: And I want you to realize.

99
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,400
Speaker 2: That those comments from Angel Reese about wanting some credit

100
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,680
Speaker 2: for helping to grow the game came from a very

101
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,440
Speaker 2: real place for black women.

102
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:16,840
Speaker 1: For black people overall.

103
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,800
Speaker 2: Kaylin Clark, Paige Becker's, and Kelsey Plum have all admitted

104
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 2: that as white stars, they are operating with a certain

105
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,640
Speaker 2: amount of privilege. As talented as they are, they each

106
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:31,359
Speaker 2: have acknowledged that they receive more fanfare and opportunities because

107
00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,359
Speaker 2: of the way whiteness works. Angel Reee, Angel Wilson, and

108
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,039
Speaker 2: other black stars in the WNBA know they have to

109
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,800
Speaker 2: work a little bit harder to receive the credit and

110
00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,359
Speaker 2: attention they deserve. They know the marketing push and dollars

111
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 2: sometimes won't be the same for them. They know their

112
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 2: actions will be judged differently and they are under a

113
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 2: different type of scrutiny. For that reason, a lot of

114
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,400
Speaker 2: black women identify with Angel Reese. She is so unapologetic

115
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,600
Speaker 2: about who she is. I mean, she is out here

116
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,720
Speaker 2: living her best life at the Medgala, playing with passion

117
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 2: and enthusiasm, and she speaks her mind. People resent that,

118
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 2: especially coming from a young black woman. Now, there are

119
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:15,120
Speaker 2: so many examples of outspoken and unapologetic athletes being portrayed

120
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 2: negatively by the media, especially if they're black. If black

121
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 2: athletes are confident, they are considered cocky and arrogant. If

122
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,960
Speaker 2: they speak their mind, then they are considered troublemakers or ungrateful.

123
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,400
Speaker 2: Sam tropes different day. Caitlyn Clark is a super nova.

124
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,480
Speaker 2: She's probably the most impactfowl women's basketball player that we've

125
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 2: seen in decades. She's putting up numbers both on the

126
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 2: court and when it comes to the ratings, but two

127
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,000
Speaker 2: point seven million people watched that game last week between

128
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,320
Speaker 2: her and Angel Rees, and it wasn't all because of

129
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,720
Speaker 2: Kaitlyn Clark. Their stories have been intertwined since they played

130
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,880
Speaker 2: in the National Championship game and Angel Rees hit Kaitlyn

131
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 2: Clark with a you can't see me. In sports, we

132
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,520
Speaker 2: love drama. We love the idea of athletes having to

133
00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,360
Speaker 2: go through something, whether it be a player, a team,

134
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,559
Speaker 2: or just the general obstacles that come along with trying

135
00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,480
Speaker 2: to win. It's why we love the game. We also

136
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,240
Speaker 2: love fiery competitors and athletes who talk their shit and

137
00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 2: back it up. But when it comes to women, or

138
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 2: more specifically, these two women, we are struggling to see

139
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,960
Speaker 2: them as just two highly competitive athletes who often are

140
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 2: in a position of having to compete for the same things.

141
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:25,440
Speaker 1: I mean, let's just say.

142
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,080
Speaker 2: It's true and Angel reeslows the ground that Caitlyn Clark

143
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,680
Speaker 2: walks on. So in men's sports, petty grievances are accepted

144
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 2: among men and considered part of being a competitive athlete.

145
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm old enough to remember Jalen Rose admitting

146
00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,400
Speaker 2: he hated Duke and Grant Hill because They represented everything

147
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,320
Speaker 2: that was out of reach for him as a young

148
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 2: black man growing up in inner city Detroit.

149
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 6: For me, Duke was personal.

150
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,920
Speaker 7: I hated Duke and I hated everything I felt Duke

151
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 7: stood for.

152
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,360
Speaker 6: Schools like Duke didn't recruit players like me.

153
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,440
Speaker 7: I felt like they only recruited black players that were

154
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,400
Speaker 7: Uncle Tom's. I was jealous of grand Hill. He came

155
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,280
Speaker 7: from a great black family. Congratulations, your mom went to

156
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,920
Speaker 7: college and was roommates with Hillary Clinton. Your dad played

157
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,440
Speaker 7: in the NFL. It was a very well spoken and

158
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,760
Speaker 7: successful man. I was upset and bitter that my mom

159
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 7: had to bust her hump for twenty plus years.

160
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:28,720
Speaker 6: I was bitter that.

161
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,480
Speaker 7: I had a professional athlete that was my father that

162
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 7: I didn't know.

163
00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,679
Speaker 2: I'm old enough to remember Doctor j giving Larry Bird

164
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,199
Speaker 2: a two piece biscuit and two sides on the court

165
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 2: because Larry was talking so much shit to him.

166
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 6: Larr Bird was a great trash talker.

167
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:49,720
Speaker 8: And he's like, Charles, y'all better get this old man

168
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 8: off me, I'm telling you, and he's just roasting Doc. Yeah,

169
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 8: He's like, and this is dog last year. I think

170
00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,360
Speaker 8: he was right. It was last year. The year before

171
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,880
Speaker 8: he's killing Doc, and he's like, Chuck, I'm telling you

172
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,280
Speaker 8: for the last time, you better get over here because

173
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,160
Speaker 8: I'm gonna kill this old man. And it goes on

174
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,360
Speaker 8: up and down and he Larry just killing him, and

175
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,000
Speaker 8: Doc had just had enough and I just had them.

176
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 8: They come together and I just kind of grabbed Larry.

177
00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,800
Speaker 8: I'm not even looking at Doc when I went back

178
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,280
Speaker 8: and looked at the tape Doctor nailing his eye. I

179
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,000
Speaker 8: was just trying to pull guys apart.

180
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,240
Speaker 2: And I'm also old enough to remember magic, John said,

181
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,640
Speaker 2: admitting his friendship with Isaiah Thomas was ruined at one

182
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:34,920
Speaker 2: point once.

183
00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 1: The two met in the NBA Finals.

184
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 9: Did the NBA Finals change you in Isaiah's relationship?

185
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:41,360
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, I did.

186
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,480
Speaker 10: And I'm sad that I have to sit here and

187
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:49,959
Speaker 10: say that, but it did both. I'm sure his coach,

188
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,440
Speaker 10: just like Pat Rowley, wanted to know, and my and

189
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,959
Speaker 10: my teammates wanted to know if I had to am

190
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:55,960
Speaker 10: I'm gonna put him down?

191
00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:56,679
Speaker 6: You did?

192
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,680
Speaker 10: And I said yeah, and I did, and so that

193
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,199
Speaker 10: at them said okay, because.

194
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,559
Speaker 9: But he looked he looked at you different. Oh for y'all,

195
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 9: because product they were like, okay, you know, you guys

196
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 9: had a great relationship. You know, you a a bro

197
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,360
Speaker 9: a stay healthy good But he came down the middle,

198
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,040
Speaker 9: and you had you had to let them.

199
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 10: Know that's right, my teammates as well as the pistons.

200
00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,400
Speaker 10: You had to let him know that's right, that I'm

201
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,480
Speaker 10: here to win, right. And then he jumped up swinging,

202
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 10: and I said, no problem. I had no problem with that, right,

203
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,080
Speaker 10: you know. And so it took us a matter of fact,

204
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,400
Speaker 10: the last probably a couple of years to mend everything.

205
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 2: People love hearing these stories, but for some reason, when

206
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 2: it comes to Angel Rees and Kaitlyn Clark, we simply

207
00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,559
Speaker 2: refuse to view their competitiveness through that same lens. Maybe

208
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,120
Speaker 2: they hate each other, maybe they don't. But I want

209
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,120
Speaker 2: us to graduate to a point where whether or not

210
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,840
Speaker 2: they like each other is utterly irrelevant. Angel Reese is

211
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,320
Speaker 2: not the villain in Kaitlin Clark's story, no more than

212
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,280
Speaker 2: Kaitlyn Clark is the savior in hers. Every interaction between

213
00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,959
Speaker 2: them is not a think piece. If there are hard files,

214
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,800
Speaker 2: rough language, and things get spicy, so be it. If

215
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,480
Speaker 2: you have no problem when male athletes compete hard against

216
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,760
Speaker 2: one another or expose their pettiness.

217
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,319
Speaker 1: Do us all a favor and.

218
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,839
Speaker 2: Apply that same energy so we can actually enjoy this

219
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:20,720
Speaker 2: WNBA season. I'm Jamelle Hill and I approved this message.

220
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,560
Speaker 2: Not sure if you all caught it, but I briefly

221
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,360
Speaker 2: returned to ESPN a couple weeks ago to appear on

222
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 2: Around the Horn.

223
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:29,040
Speaker 1: Now.

224
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,920
Speaker 2: When I worked at ESPN, it was one of my

225
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,679
Speaker 2: favorite experiences. That group is one of the best at

226
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,880
Speaker 2: the network and they just get how to do good television. Sadly,

227
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 2: Around the Horn is ending as a show after a

228
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 2: twenty plus year fantastic run, but my guest today is

229
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,040
Speaker 2: one of the reasons this show has become such an institution.

230
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,160
Speaker 2: I guess today is one of the finest people I

231
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,360
Speaker 2: have ever known in this business. He's someone I will

232
00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 2: always root for. His story is very inspirational. What I

233
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 2: appreciate about him is his radical transparency. He's been very

234
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 2: open about his life and I'm so honored that he

235
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,320
Speaker 2: took the time to bless this podcast with his presence

236
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 2: coming up next. He was first known to the world

237
00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,320
Speaker 2: as stat Boy, and now he's known for hosting one

238
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,079
Speaker 2: of the most enduring successful sports shows of all time,

239
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 2: the one and only Tony reality joins me next here

240
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:36,640
Speaker 2: ons politics, Tony. I know that you've probably been bombarded

241
00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,080
Speaker 2: with a lot of people wanting to talk to you

242
00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 2: now that.

243
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:39,320
Speaker 6: Another of the show.

244
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,920
Speaker 2: And I remember when, you know, when I left ESPN

245
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,679
Speaker 2: and all of that, and people are like, oh, I'm

246
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 2: going a missue and this.

247
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 1: And that and blah blah blah, and like, well, where

248
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 1: we are y'all watching when I was a house sports center.

249
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,760
Speaker 2: So I know there's a lot of people like sort

250
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:55,720
Speaker 2: of grasping, you know, at your time.

251
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 1: But I'm sure a part of you is thinking, hey,

252
00:12:58,360 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 1: you know, if y'all love me this much, you could

253
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:00,800
Speaker 1: have show me before.

254
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,360
Speaker 6: I loved Jamal. First of all, you get privileged. You

255
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,760
Speaker 6: get privileged. This is I mean, you could pick me

256
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,560
Speaker 6: up on the phone any day and I'll be there

257
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,640
Speaker 6: for you. But I felt the love all along, but

258
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,520
Speaker 6: I wasn't expecting what happened nine months ago when they

259
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,920
Speaker 6: announced it or when it first came out. You know,

260
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,400
Speaker 6: the the you know, six million hits on a PR release.

261
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,000
Speaker 6: What is that? You know, like at ninety five percent

262
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 6: we love you like type approval rating. I've been living

263
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,199
Speaker 6: in this skin for twenty three years. It's it's been nice.

264
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,720
Speaker 6: It's been seventy percent, you know. So it's never a

265
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 6: bad time to tell people how they make you feel

266
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 6: and how much you meant when you were watching it

267
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,840
Speaker 6: with your sister and your brother. So I can hear

268
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,200
Speaker 6: that all day. I really can't.

269
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,439
Speaker 1: Well, that's good.

270
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,720
Speaker 2: But before we get too deep into around the horn

271
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 2: and your origin story, I'm going to start by asking

272
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,160
Speaker 2: you a question I ask every guest that appears on politics,

273
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 2: and that is name an athlete or a moment that

274
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 2: made you love sports.

275
00:13:55,200 --> 00:14:00,240
Speaker 6: Okay, for me, it really starts in the real All

276
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,400
Speaker 6: Holme in Staten Island, New York, nineteen eighty four nineteen

277
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,359
Speaker 6: eighty five or so, and for me it was Dave Winfield.

278
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,720
Speaker 6: Dave Wentfield played right field for the New York Yankees,

279
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,200
Speaker 6: number thirty one, and he was at that time the

280
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 6: biggest guy in the world. He was six foot six,

281
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,640
Speaker 6: but most of all, he had a gap in his

282
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,000
Speaker 6: teeth like Michael Strahan has now and everything. And that's

283
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,600
Speaker 6: what I remember seeing him in the Staten Island Advance,

284
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 6: the paper my father famously delivered Jamel, one of the

285
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 6: greatest newspaper boys in the history of New York City

286
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,080
Speaker 6: true story. He won an award for being such a

287
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,640
Speaker 6: good paper boy that he went on a trip to

288
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,120
Speaker 6: Europe with a chaperone who turned out to be Rick Barry,

289
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,120
Speaker 6: the NBA player. I tell very long winded stories, but

290
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,280
Speaker 6: I just remember reading the statn Islan Evands growing up

291
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 6: and seeing this face of somebody of complete joy, and

292
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,000
Speaker 6: it was Dave Winfield, and I'm like, what's that guy about?

293
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,080
Speaker 6: And his laugh and his smile, and I fell in

294
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 6: love with baseball first and foremost. My first game ever

295
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 6: was July third, nineteen eighty three, and I asked my

296
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,240
Speaker 6: parents not to go on my birthday, which was July fourth,

297
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 6: and July fourth was a no hitter by a picture

298
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,920
Speaker 6: named Dave Righetti. So I already had had lived the

299
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,040
Speaker 6: life of a sports fan, Like you're just missing out

300
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 6: on things. But for me, Dave Wentfield made me fall

301
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:19,280
Speaker 6: in love with sports.

302
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah I am, I'm old enough to remember a Righetti

303
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 2: and baseball also was my first love. Oh yeah, it

304
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 2: was funny you mentioned nineteen eighty four because that is.

305
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,480
Speaker 6: The year best year ever for Detroit.

306
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,800
Speaker 2: Well exactly, It's like the year the Tigers won the

307
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 2: World Series. And I still know that entire starting lineup.

308
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 2: I was very you know my recent appearance on a

309
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 2: Round the Horn. I was torn between telling you and

310
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,080
Speaker 2: telling the viewers you know publicly how much of a

311
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 2: deep affection I have for you for the show for

312
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:49,360
Speaker 2: the group.

313
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:55,080
Speaker 1: Between that and Chet Lemon died, I was like, oh.

314
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:56,640
Speaker 6: I would have loved to hear that. So you know

315
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 6: how I broke in this business, Jamel, I'm a stat boy.

316
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,600
Speaker 6: I know that team went thirty five and four to

317
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 6: start the easy even though they're not my team. I

318
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,760
Speaker 6: know Chet. Everybody needs to know a good Chet in

319
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 6: their life exactly.

320
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,400
Speaker 2: That was going to be the FaceTime until I was like, no,

321
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,240
Speaker 2: I gotta tell these days now. But you know, as

322
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,280
Speaker 2: many people know, as you alluded to the fact that

323
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 2: Around the Horn is ending.

324
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 1: But I want to go back a little bit.

325
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 2: So you apparently based off what I read, and obviously

326
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 2: you can correct me.

327
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,680
Speaker 1: You know your own story better than I do.

328
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,520
Speaker 2: Is that you've been wanting to be a sports broadcaster

329
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:31,280
Speaker 2: since you were.

330
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 1: Five years old.

331
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,480
Speaker 6: As far back as I can remember, I always wanted

332
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 6: to be a sportscaster. It's the way I said. It's

333
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 6: like in the movie Good Fellas. Starting that movie. This

334
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,320
Speaker 6: is it. That's that picture Dave Winfield. That's that game

335
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 6: where we missed the no hitter. But it was Anthony

336
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,280
Speaker 6: reality with the Fisher Price microphone. You know, we used

337
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 6: to have these things. Right now, you could have your

338
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 6: own YouTube page at seven or maybe fourteen, whatever the

339
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 6: age limit. But you can do amazing things. And I'm

340
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 6: gonna be honest with you, Jamal, you know around the

341
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 6: Horn's gonna set off May twenty three. I'm gonna make

342
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 6: myself available to our viewers in a lot of different ways,

343
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,399
Speaker 6: community forms, but I want to even talk to young

344
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,120
Speaker 6: aspiring sportscasters about how to break in the business because

345
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 6: that was such a such a real thing for me.

346
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:21,360
Speaker 6: I went to six Flags Great Adventure with my brothers

347
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,240
Speaker 6: and sisters, but especially Michael, who's my middle brother, younger

348
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,200
Speaker 6: than me, and we both put on headsets at the

349
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,600
Speaker 6: sports festival and were able to call a highlight package

350
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,639
Speaker 6: of Shaquille O'Neal taking down the rim against the nets.

351
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 6: That's what they had. It was a sports festival. Now,

352
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,199
Speaker 6: I'm thirteen, and I remember putting on the headset and

353
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,159
Speaker 6: I was four foot nothing, seventy five pounds and Michael

354
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 6: three years younger than me, was bigger than me. So

355
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,680
Speaker 6: my voice is up here and his voice is down here,

356
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 6: and we're announcing Shaquille O'Neal stunking the ball and bringing

357
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,119
Speaker 6: down the whole rim, you know, And I just remember

358
00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,119
Speaker 6: holding onto that VCR tape and being like, this is amazing.

359
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,080
Speaker 6: My microphone was not as it was like off, so

360
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:04,880
Speaker 6: you'd only hurt me in the background, and my brother

361
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 6: Michael had the full microphone, but we kept that tape forever.

362
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,600
Speaker 6: I'm like, this is the dream. And every school project

363
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 6: Jamil history lesson on the Revolutionary War doesn't matter. I'd

364
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,080
Speaker 6: come in with Mom would give me a cardboard box.

365
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 6: I put my head in the middle and I pretend

366
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 6: like I was Sports Center and I'd be talking about

367
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,880
Speaker 6: the Revolutionary But we start today with corn Wallace. What

368
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 6: a terrible move by corn Wallace, the tactics of his

369
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 6: whatever I was talking about in the Revolutionary War, right,

370
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 6: Everything became a sports cast for me, every project, every

371
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 6: time at home. So even though you know, I could

372
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,879
Speaker 6: imagine myself doing other things in life, you know, it

373
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 6: was always being about being a sports gas. I applied

374
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,359
Speaker 6: to college and it was the only really thing I

375
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:49,879
Speaker 6: thought about.

376
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,280
Speaker 2: I have a similar sort of shared story in the

377
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 2: sense that this is the only thing I've ever wanted

378
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 2: to do, And so I always tell younger journalists I'm

379
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 2: the worst example, because you will probably change your mind

380
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,439
Speaker 2: or you will do other things. It's like, unfortunately I

381
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 2: got hooked on sports writing by reading about the time.

382
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 6: But our stories are so true in so many ways,

383
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,120
Speaker 6: you know, because we both grew up even on TV. Yeah,

384
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,640
Speaker 6: which is a I wouldn't I wouldn't, you know, recommend

385
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 6: that to everybody, but it certainly fit me because I'm

386
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 6: I'm more of a performer than the average person, right,

387
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm a ham. In my family, we would

388
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 6: say I'm a proshooter. I'm a proshuret you know, I

389
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 6: don't mind doing that sort of thing. Now. How I

390
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,880
Speaker 6: got on TV was kind of threw the fire escape right.

391
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 6: I was hired to work on PTI as the show researcher.

392
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 6: What a great job to work with Corneiser and Wilbond

393
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 6: and help them build their arguments. Those guys need no

394
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 6: help building their arguments. What they needed was somebody to

395
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 6: break them down a little bit in the newsroom, and

396
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 6: I started doing that a week before we went to

397
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 6: air and they said, you know what, We're gonna put

398
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 6: this kid on TV. I'd always wanted to be on air,

399
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,959
Speaker 6: but I was a little bit rough around the edges.

400
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 6: Some of my college broadcast partner ers were calling, you know,

401
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 6: CBS games right out of school. Spirodidas one of my

402
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 6: great friends, does the NFL package every weekend. Ryan Rutko

403
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 6: a few years after me, is doing our w NBA package,

404
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 6: you know, and the list goes on and on. I

405
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 6: wanted to do that, but was too rough to do that.

406
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,439
Speaker 6: And then here I was on a show that became,

407
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 6: in my opinion, the best debate show of its kind

408
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 6: and the best show on ESPN very quickly. And I

409
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 6: was on that show as a supposed to be you know,

410
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 6: associated producer or researcher and turned into be an on

411
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,119
Speaker 6: air presence of a sidekick. You know. That's that's a

412
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 6: fire escape that I still now.

413
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,880
Speaker 2: By the way, I you're bad example too, because when

414
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 2: I go talk to younger journalists and I tell them

415
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 2: and it is it is true that, you know, when

416
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 2: I was in Bristol, I would often run it to researchers.

417
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 2: I would often run it too, pas and they all

418
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 2: wanted to be on air, and I was like, listen, guys,

419
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 2: they don't put pas research and be like, damn mean

420
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 2: Tony reality.

421
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 6: I know. Yeah. I always love researchers, though, because once

422
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 6: a researcher, always a Researcher's like being a marine. Once

423
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 6: a stat boy, always a stat boy. You can still

424
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 6: call me stat boy. You me and me on the

425
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 6: street called me stat boy. I'm gonna live by that.

426
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 6: I'm great with that because once you're a researcher, you

427
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,199
Speaker 6: see the world in that way. What better way to

428
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 6: know things than to to to always have that muscle

429
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 6: in you that makes you want to find out and

430
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 6: then double check it and triple check it. I still

431
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 6: do that, even the most basic around the horn stories.

432
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 6: We think we're just winging it. You know, there's an

433
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 6: intention in researcher, and in fact played out in the

434
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 6: rest of my life. How I try to live now

435
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 6: is with intention, right, So many things we do, especially

436
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 6: I'm wired this way, jamul is habit, you know, Okay,

437
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,439
Speaker 6: I'll just wheel my way through this. I used to

438
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 6: work out every day. You know, I had probably had

439
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 6: an exercise addiction, if we were being honest, because I

440
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 6: needed to tire myself out. I got this energy and

441
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 6: it needed to go somewhere, and I want to collapse

442
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,479
Speaker 6: at the end of the day. I wind up doing

443
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 6: the same thing over and over again. Well that's not

444
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 6: so good for me because I'll grip it too tight,

445
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 6: and I needed to actually think about intention and why

446
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 6: am I doing it this way and then remove habit

447
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 6: with intention.

448
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: So, uh, you know you mentioned the fact that you

449
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,360
Speaker 2: you know your your other classmates because you went to fordom.

450
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 6: Correct, Yeah, Fordham University bronx me.

451
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: So some of your other peers they went a more

452
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: traditional path. Even though you said you were raw, I'm

453
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,719
Speaker 2: still surprised that maybe you didn't try to be, you know,

454
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 2: an announcer or play by play person a minor league

455
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 2: team or to kind of go up the traditional way.

456
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: What was it that convinced you that that wasn't the

457
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: path for you.

458
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I was working for Channel eleven wpi

459
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,959
Speaker 6: X the night after I graduated for them, and I

460
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 6: was writing the sportscast for sal Marciana, who was a

461
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 6: New York institution, and Sean Kimberling, who has now departed

462
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 6: and who I loved genuinely and he was a young guy.

463
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 6: He was thirty or so. We lost him far too soon,

464
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 6: but working next to them made me think, you know,

465
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 6: there's a chance I could stay in New York and

466
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 6: cover the teams I like. I was in a locker

467
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 6: room in that job in some ways, covering the Yankees

468
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 6: and the Mets, who just had a Subway series. So

469
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,479
Speaker 6: the idea of going out to a wonderful farm system

470
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 6: team in Peoria would be fun and be cool. But

471
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 6: at that moment, I was at the World Series with

472
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 6: the Yankees and Mets. I mean, there couldn't be something

473
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 6: that was bigger in my world than that, So that's

474
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 6: kind of it was just by product of covering games,

475
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 6: And once you do that, you're not going back, right,

476
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 6: I mean, once you're on the field at Yankee Stadium

477
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 6: or on a float in a parade. After interviewing Derek

478
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 6: Jeter at nineteen and twenty and twenty one, so while

479
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 6: Spiro may have been doing the XFL, which was big

480
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 6: at that time, and then doing the Lakers and Knicks

481
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 6: within three or four years, that would have been a dream.

482
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 6: But by sheer luck, I started writing trivia questions for

483
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 6: a sports game show, which is another part of my personality, right,

484
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 6: this is Who Wants to be a Millionaire is the

485
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 6: biggest show on planet Earth. And regis Philman as a

486
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 6: guy like I admired as a TV host and and

487
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 6: now in some ways it's just like wow, Yeah, of

488
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 6: course I was drawn to him because I got so

489
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 6: many things similar to him, you know, in some ways.

490
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 6: So the spin off was Kenny Mains show called The

491
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 6: Two Minute Drill, which was on ESPN. This is how

492
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 6: I got to work for ESPN. Yet another fire escape.

493
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 6: I wasn't hired in Bristol Jamel. I didn't have to

494
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 6: go through the whatever trivia, whatever test you had to pass.

495
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 6: I was hired to be a show researcher and writer

496
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 6: on a game show that was based off of Who

497
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 6: Wants to be a Millionaire. So I got hired by

498
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 6: that office. And that's then, you know, how I became

499
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 6: in the ESPN family. This is two thousand, twenty five

500
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 6: years working with ESPN. I'm at right now, you know.

501
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 6: And and that's how you know, I started to hear

502
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 6: about PTI and just a light bulb went off. You know,

503
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 6: maybe I won't be on air, but I'll be the

504
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 6: one who creates TV show, and I kind of liked

505
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 6: that there's a movie director. I'm obsessed with Martin Scorsese,

506
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 6: so we would make little movies when we were in college,

507
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 6: you know, and and that part of all right, I

508
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 6: want to be the announcer with the voice, so it

509
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 6: became this announcer with the voice. But really it was also, well,

510
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 6: maybe I can create in different ways and that so

511
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 6: maybe I was a creator before we use that word,

512
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 6: you know, That's what I was thinking.

513
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: Hopefully you've seen the studio with step Rogan because your boys, I.

514
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 6: Mean, everybody's yes, and you see Scorsese acting, which I

515
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,479
Speaker 6: always appreciate. But I'm going to give you a little

516
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 6: inside information how much I love, you know, Scorsese. Don't

517
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 6: be surprised if you see a little reality Scorsese take

518
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 6: in the last episode of Around the Horn, because it's

519
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 6: too close to my beating heart and it's the only

520
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 6: way I want to say goodbye to something that has

521
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 6: been a heart outside my body for the last twenty years,

522
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 6: you know.

523
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: Now.

524
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 2: Around the Horn and PTI were the creations of Eric Radholm,

525
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 2: who is I think one of the best in the

526
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: business to ever do it. And but it was this

527
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: they introduced both of these shows when it was.

528
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: The Shapiro Mark Shapiro regime.

529
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 6: Correct.

530
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, now I recall hearing this one.

531
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 2: I didn't get the ESPN to two thousand and six,

532
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 2: but everybody said, like at the beginning, you know, when

533
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 2: Shapiro said okay, yes and gave the green light. When

534
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 2: people heard about the idea of Around the Horn, a

535
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 2: lot of people thought it was the dumbest idea.

536
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 6: I think there's a quote somewhere the worst show since

537
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 6: my Mother the Call. We we say that, whether it

538
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 6: was actually written or it was our producer Bill Wolf

539
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 6: at that point, you know, cooking a little bit and

540
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 6: coming up with some motivation. It's one of the things

541
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 6: I admire most about Bob Ryan Woody Page at that time,

542
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 6: Jay Mariotti, TJ Simer's and I'm blanking Ja Donde, Bill Plash.

543
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 6: Of course, the Originals and Jackie mcmont, Kevin blackistone, they

544
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 6: just took it and they say, you know what, We're

545
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 6: gonna hunker down. I could just picture Bob Brian getting

546
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 6: in his position and being like, oh, yeah, you don't

547
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 6: like this, well, I'm gonna give it to you this way.

548
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 6: How about that? You know, so I was not the

549
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 6: original host of the show, as we all know, Max

550
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 6: Kellerman was. So I'm now in the room next door

551
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 6: as around the Horn is launch launching doing PTI. We

552
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 6: were literally wall to wall with each other. So the

553
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 6: shows were connected in some ways, and then they became

554
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 6: very connected when I worked for both shows and Eric

555
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 6: became a producer for both shows. But that first year,

556
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 6: we're just witnessing it, and Max was somebody I was

557
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 6: friendly with. I helped move him into his apartment when

558
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 6: we were living. You know, I carried punch out the arcade,

559
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 6: gave into his apartment with him, got splinters. You know,

560
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 6: this is where we were, and we're right next door.

561
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 6: And that show PTI was a success right out of

562
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 6: the gate, which is of course, ay buy product. At

563
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 6: first Tony and Mike being a married couple on TV,

564
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,959
Speaker 6: and the light bulb went off for everybody. Oh, this

565
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 6: is the Honeymooners. So this is name your show. You know,

566
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 6: these guys aren't just friends. This is not just mentor mentee.

567
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 6: This is a married couple who may be headed towards divorce.

568
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 6: Three times in the first block of the show, over Jordan, over,

569
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 6: you know, whatever the topic is that then, so dynamic work,

570
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 6: the dynamic and the satire of Around the Horn, because

571
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 6: that's you can use the word satire. You was meta referential.

572
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 6: You know, it's scoring an argument about something that is unscorable.

573
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 6: No one can win a sports debate, Jamil. I mean

574
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 6: you have twenty six times and Around the Horn, but

575
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 6: you really, I mean it all is in the eye

576
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 6: of the beholder, and it took a while for that

577
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 6: to really crystallize into something that wasn't just you know,

578
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 6: all over the place on TV even so me a

579
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 6: while after, you know, so the first year of Around

580
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 6: the Horn, there was a stopdown for a couple of

581
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 6: weeks where they were re imagining how to convey we're

582
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 6: scoring an argument. At that point there may have even

583
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 6: been trivia in the show. One thing I did like,

584
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 6: whatever points you had, was how much FaceTime you got,

585
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 6: so panelists at the end of the show, everybody would

586
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 6: get a FaceTime and if Wood he had minus three points,

587
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 6: he would cut his mind as they were introducing his

588
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 6: face time when they would give him two seconds, He's like,

589
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 6: I got a lot of points. I want to and

590
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 6: then he'd be newted. I do like that. I might

591
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 6: bring that back for the last episode. That's not bad idea.

592
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 6: My point is every show has its origin story, and

593
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 6: Around the Horns has Max Kellerman, his host, Bill Wolfe's producer,

594
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 6: a disembodied voice, and has a show that was was

595
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 6: i'll say, lovingly panned by critics because it was a

596
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 6: little bit ahead of itself. We already had sports writers

597
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 6: on TV that was nice. Sports reporters had its own flow.

598
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 6: PTI had its own flow. Now we're adding a mechanism

599
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 6: with an inexplicable scoring system, a mute button, which I

600
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 6: think worked from the start. The idea of we're going

601
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 6: to silence you was always that was good, that was solid,

602
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 6: and they didn't need to touch that, but they need

603
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 6: to work on other things. Pace of Around the Horn

604
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 6: is so different than anything on TV at that time.

605
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 6: I think that's what most people were reacting to, where

606
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 6: it was just like ahh right, it was a cacophony

607
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 6: of noise. But at some point we were able to

608
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 6: and I took over maybe two hundred episodes in that

609
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 6: was that first first year of the show, and then

610
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 6: I took over, and even then I had to find

611
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 6: my footing on the show because I was a very

612
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 6: Green host, but I never felt, you know, I thought

613
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 6: the show had good bones, you know, and I still

614
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 6: think it has good bones, and I still think it

615
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 6: as gas in the tank, you know, And that's how

616
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 6: I feel. I'll feel that way when we sign off

617
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 6: May twenty three.

618
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: And so you know, as you just mentioned, you you

619
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: took it over when it was about two years in.

620
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: So how long would you say it took you for

621
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: the show to feel like yours?

622
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: Like, when did you now?

623
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you. I was

624
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 6: twenty five, maybe a very young twenty five. I hadn't

625
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 6: done a lot of you know, hosting on TV, so

626
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 6: I didn't feel necessarily comfortable with how the show was written.

627
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 6: Comfortable being the literal sense now, I mean, we were

628
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 6: doing sports debate. I can live in that stuff. But

629
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 6: the host would start the show as it was written

630
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 6: for Max, with these four things I know are true.

631
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 6: That's not how I necessarily operate. Maybe with me and

632
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 6: my friends when I'm breaking, but I didn't want to

633
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 6: start the show with the focus on the host. I

634
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 6: came from a school with Corneiser Wilbond, and even before that,

635
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 6: when I was at Fordham, I worked with the broadcaster

636
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 6: named Marty collicktoran Oh Marty Klickman Hall of Fame broadcast

637
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,719
Speaker 6: to jamil beautiful baritone voice at one point was I

638
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 6: think the second or third fastest man in the world.

639
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 6: He ran or would have run at the Olympics with

640
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 6: Jesse Owens at thirty six. He was a Jewish Man

641
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 6: and was not allowed. There's a great documentary. But I

642
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 6: say this because he lived in an incredible life as a

643
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 6: Hall of Fame broadcaster, and before that he didn't think

644
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 6: I had the voice to be on TV. But that's

645
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 6: neither here nor there. Love the memory of Marty, and

646
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 6: my point was the host of a show had to

647
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 6: be a point guard set up to play a point

648
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 6: guard like Bob Cozy here, all right, that type of

649
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 6: not steph pulling up from thirty feet So maybe a

650
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 6: center snapping the ball. And that's how I was raised

651
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 6: and that's how I still feel. Around the horn is

652
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 6: best with the host setting up the panelists and not

653
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 6: these four things I know are true, or the host

654
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 6: wrapping up each segment with their own debate point and

655
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 6: their own opinion. Right. So I needed to massage that

656
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 6: out of the show a little bit and I did

657
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 6: by the time you were on. Of course, it was

658
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 6: these four sports writers standing before you. It took me

659
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 6: over a year to even get the show, jamil. I

660
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 6: mean I got called up the night before to ask

661
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 6: to fill in. Was the night of Patriots Panthers super Bowl.

662
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 6: It was the night of the Janet Jackson justin Timberlake

663
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 6: wardrobe malfunction, so calling me no pressure, biggest show of

664
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 6: the year, and then a story that became, you know,

665
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 6: a story that was on the cover of magazines, High magazine.

666
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 6: You know it was you know, so there was a

667
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 6: lot of pressure that day. I sweated through my suit.

668
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 6: I was out of closed by by Tuesday. I had

669
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 6: to do the next day. I changed my tide once,

670
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 6: you know, you know, I was a kid. So how

671
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 6: Stu Scott didn't get called in to host the show

672
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 6: or Linda Cohene called in to host the show, It's

673
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 6: always mystified me. How they how they didn't think, you

674
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 6: know what, the show is going to need a host.

675
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 6: They let me grow. I don't know if who the

676
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 6: day is there. Honestly, no one ever said, you know,

677
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 6: Shapiro never had the conversation with me, try it out.

678
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 6: See what happens. We liked your style. No one ever

679
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 6: said that I was just somebody who filled in one day,

680
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 6: who filled in a week. They brought in a dream

681
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 6: job contested at one point, which was a show they had,

682
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 6: but that didn't stick. They may have, you know, had

683
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 6: other ideas. But my origins is put your head down,

684
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 6: say yes, do the work, and then make it yours.

685
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 6: And that's what I did over a year, Jammel, over

686
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 6: two years. I signed my first contract with ESPN, probably

687
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,919
Speaker 6: a year in, and I felt comfortable. It took me though,

688
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 6: It took me a year and a half. And that

689
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 6: I mean, who gets a year and a half to

690
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 6: kind of feel theirselves out? Somehow? The show is doing

691
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 6: all right, So I'm.

692
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 1: Going to guess.

693
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: That the number one question that you are asked, and

694
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: I only guess this is the.

695
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: Number one question you're asking.

696
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 2: And I'm asking a question as someone who has appeared

697
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 2: on the many times.

698
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 6: How the show has scored.

699
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: Rob Horne is over You could tell us now, well.

700
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 6: It's what people say. Now you know, it's all vibes, Jamel,

701
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 6: It's all vibes. I know the answer, right, So here

702
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 6: I am and I'm thinking, how do you score the unscore.

703
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 6: All right, now I am. I am somebody who probably

704
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 6: elevates in their own inside their own ears what I'm doing,

705
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 6: all right, So what I'm gonna tell you now, I'm

706
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 6: gonna make it sound like around the Horn is an

707
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 6: art for or my own Martin Scorsese. But if you're

708
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 6: gonna tell me it's a satire, you're scoring games that

709
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 6: are actually scored with your own scoring system. That let's

710
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 6: develop a rule book on the scoring system. I'm gonna

711
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 6: tell you now that we're in a space where we're

712
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 6: operating much like life. Every day, the rule book for

713
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 6: life changes on you. Jimmel. You know this. You do

714
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 6: things amazing one day, you try to do it the

715
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 6: next day the same way, and it goes right back

716
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 6: in your face and blows up. It's not the same thing.

717
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 6: Every day life will give you a new blueprint to

718
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 6: work with, and you got to roll with life. This

719
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 6: is what I am figuring out as I am a

720
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 6: very emotional person in my youth twenties and thirties, and

721
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 6: I'm growing up on TV in a lot of ways,

722
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 6: and I'm learning how my emotions are both my greatest

723
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 6: strength and I wouldn't call my greatest week, but something

724
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 6: I need to now really come to grips with my

725
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 6: mental health. This is why, Jamel, you know me, This

726
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 6: is why it became a secondary pulse of the show

727
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,439
Speaker 6: for me. For me, maybe some of the viewers feel

728
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 6: that it became literally something that I want to address

729
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 6: on TV when it came up, but it was actually

730
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 6: something that was motivating my intentions and how I host

731
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 6: the show, if I can say it like that. So

732
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,919
Speaker 6: I am now scoring every show each day with its

733
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 6: own rule book and allowing the panelists and by proxy,

734
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 6: the viewer to understand life's coming at you in different ways.

735
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 6: Every single day. It's going to score you in different ways,

736
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 6: and you have to show that you're going to roll

737
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 6: with it. So some days I would look for the

738
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 6: most analytical answers and the stack King and the stack

739
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 6: Queen of the show would win that argument. And other

740
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 6: days it would be I was in the locker room,

741
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 6: Tony inside information Jamel, there we go ding ding thing,

742
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 6: And the other days it was like, wait a second,

743
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 6: Whoever's going to give me the most real answer here?

744
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 6: You hear what they're saying here. We were just talking

745
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 6: before we sat down, and they told me. They went

746
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 6: to bed at nine o'clock. They didn't even watch the game. Whoa, whoa.

747
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 6: Look at you. The vibes of that day change. So

748
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 6: what I'm trying to tell you is I was trying

749
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 6: to score the show like life scores all of us

750
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 6: different every day. Make your best opinion, make your best argument.

751
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 6: Prove why your opinion is the best one at this

752
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 6: exact moment. Now, don't just have an opinion, Prove why

753
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 6: it's the best at this moment, and you'll get points

754
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 6: for it.

755
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 2: Do you hear that, Ladies and gentlemen, Okay, stop asking

756
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: me what.

757
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 6: That's ridiculous what I'm saying.

758
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: No, it's like, yes, the very institution of Around the

759
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 2: holady is just broken down how it is scored.

760
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: Now.

761
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: Of course, you know, I think for me being coming

762
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: up through the print newspaper business, as many of the

763
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 2: Around the Horn panelis have this to me now, is

764
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: Around the Horn represents Probably it might be one of

765
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: the last, if not few, remaining shows that actually honor

766
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 2: sports journalism. Now I don't know if that was always

767
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 2: the intention, but can you just speak to how that

768
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: part of it? Because the beauty of the show is

769
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: that you make fun of sportswriters. You makes fun of

770
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 2: sports dentalumists, and I think that's the fun thing about it.

771
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: But how this space in particular the impact that it

772
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: has had on sports journalism.

773
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, I literally turned the microphones off on the nine

774
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 6: time Sports Columnist of the Year Bill Plashki, or the

775
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 6: how many Hall of Fames is Bob ryan In or

776
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 6: Woody Page or you Jamelle, And that even at an

777
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 6: age of twenty five twenty six, that was another thing

778
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 6: I had to come to grips with. I tried to

779
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 6: work hard on on making sure they knew those mutes

780
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 6: came with smiles. And that was one of the dial

781
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 6: adjustments I made in the show. I just didn't want

782
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 6: it to be you know, it was high level, bombastic answers,

783
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 6: and I love that That's part of me too. And

784
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 6: then I also wanted to be able to adjust the

785
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 6: dial and show it could be different things. I mean,

786
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 6: I do feel the outpouring we got hearing young aspiring

787
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 6: sports writers talk about I saw myself on TV, and

788
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 6: I applied that for any different ways. You know, you know,

789
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 6: young people were on our show, old people were on

790
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 6: our show. Men were on our show. We brought in women,

791
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 6: and it was very important for me to have any argument,

792
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 6: any discussion, and have people we feel like could have

793
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 6: that discussion, and we weren't, you know, we were covering

794
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 6: all of our I wanted that the show was based

795
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 6: on you know, four panelists in four different parts of

796
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 6: the country. Now apply that to four different generations, four

797
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 6: different regions growing up, four different styles, four different perspectives.

798
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 6: You know, that was important to me. And that's what

799
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 6: I loved about reading sports journalism growing up. You know

800
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 6: that you were going to get somebody who had a

801
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 6: particular voice, right. So I believe there's space in the

802
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 6: industry for everything. I think the advent of athletes voices

803
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 6: so prominently is wonderful. It's amazing you have your own

804
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 6: podcast and they can tell you I would this is

805
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,439
Speaker 6: how I felt in this game. And then I hear

806
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 6: people also critiques of shows with sports writers. You've never

807
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 6: played the game, how can you Well, we're not playing

808
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 6: the game here, We're actually this is the communication business.

809
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 6: We're talking about it, This is the information, factfinding business.

810
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 6: We're talking about how we got the and we're getting

811
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 6: to the truth of a story. You know, that's what

812
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 6: we're doing here. We're not trying to shoot three pointers.

813
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 6: We're trying to talk about so so to me, that

814
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 6: was never it was never real criticism of the show

815
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 6: because I knew what that was. You know, we were

816
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 6: our job was to communicate, and we had access, and

817
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,959
Speaker 6: there was something great about around the Horn being able

818
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 6: to say, you were at this game last night, you know,

819
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 6: or you've covered this team or not even you've covered

820
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 6: teams you know in a different sport, But tell me

821
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 6: what it would be like in the locker room. That's

822
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 6: an amazing thing. And as our industry now has expanded,

823
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 6: because the landscape is so much bigger, there still needs

824
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 6: to be a place for people who have information. I mean,

825
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 6: I mean, it can't just be now to borrow what

826
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 6: I just said vibes. The whole industry can't be well,

827
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 6: we're just people having a real conversation, two friends hanging out.

828
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 6: You know. I still want information. There's still these are stories,

829
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 6: These are news, you know. So I mean, I I

830
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 6: trust there are friends of mine, Jamel and yours who

831
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 6: feel sports media is broken. You may feel that way

832
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 6: sometimes as well. I don't feel that way per se

833
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 6: because I do it from a from the perspective of

834
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 6: the consumer. I could I can get, I can still

835
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 6: get everything. I can't get as many sports writers now

836
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 6: as I used to, and and I would like more,

837
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 6: and there'll still be places for them because I'll make more,

838
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 6: you know, we'll find more. But but I still feel

839
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 6: storytelling is never going to wedge amount.

840
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, I would, I would definitely agree with that.

841
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 2: It just I guess sometimes it can feel a little

842
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: disheartening because I saw the end of sports Reporters.

843
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 1: I'm seeing the end of this show.

844
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: You know, Outside the Line still exists, but not in

845
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 2: the same form that it did before. And so seeing

846
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: all these kind of journalistic institution ends ending, it can

847
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: have a bit of a drain on the spirit.

848
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: But I agree with you, there always will be room

849
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: for that.

850
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 2: But there's so much more that I want to talk

851
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: to you about, you know, about the show and about

852
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 2: your life.

853
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: But I just have to take a very quick break,

854
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: you know about those you know what I'm saying.

855
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: I just gotta take a quick break, and we'll be

856
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: back with more with mister Tony Reality. Now Tony, since

857
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: you are you know, originally sat Boy, I'm sure you

858
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: know these stacks the Oprah Winfrey Show lasted.

859
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: Four five and sixty one, The David Letterman Show two

860
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: hundred and fourteen. So Around the Horn, what are you guys? Well,

861
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 1: over forty nine hundred episodes.

862
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 6: You were on four nine hundred and forty three last week.

863
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 6: We'll finish with four nine hundred and fifty.

864
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: Okay, Oh wow, you'll be just shy of, just.

865
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 6: Shy of for ourselves. I mean, who's counting.

866
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: So when you think about the pantheon of these television institutions,

867
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: where or how do you see the Around the Horn legacy?

868
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 7: Oh?

869
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 6: I think it's among the most underrated shows of its kind.

870
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 6: I really do. I'm probably part of the reason of that.

871
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 6: I don't bang the drum maybe. I mean, you're gonna

872
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 6: ask me now, was I surprised to hear we were

873
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 6: we were having to say goodbye? I was a little bit.

874
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 6: Our ratings were up and we were doing well, and

875
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,959
Speaker 6: I felt like we were putting great people on TV

876
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 6: that were headlining the next shows for our network in

877
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 6: the industry. So so that part of it. I mean,

878
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 6: if if I have regrets, it's that I wasn't, you know,

879
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 6: talking about how we were number one in this or

880
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 6: number one in that you know that sort of thing.

881
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 6: I think the legacy of the show will, of course

882
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 6: be the voices that we put out there. So I

883
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 6: even think that's not talked about enough. I don't think

884
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 6: there was a show with as many different voices as

885
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 6: we were, you know, in any part of the television

886
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 6: industry at that point. So I'm proud of that. I'm

887
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 6: immensely proud of this show. I'm immensely proud of of

888
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 6: how we showed people on full because that is as

889
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 6: I evolved from the biggest sports nerd in the world

890
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 6: who only wanted to live in sports discussions to realizing

891
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 6: sports was the greatest conduit for emotion in my life

892
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 6: and then realizing how it will be that for other

893
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 6: people at home. Well, let's let's let's show the full

894
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 6: emotional picture of a person on our show. So when

895
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 6: we have have Woody Page on FaceTime talking about the

896
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 6: most challenging moments of his life away from being a

897
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 6: sports writer and feeling the impact that had having Jackie mcmull,

898
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 6: having Jamelle having you on in a FaceTime you know this,

899
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 6: you could talk about anything you want. I wasn't gonna

900
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 6: mute any FaceTime ever, once I was getting a little jokeing,

901
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 6: but I wanted people to see the full you. You

902
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 6: weren't just on the show because you were a great

903
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 6: sports writer. You were on the show because you were you.

904
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 6: And here's our chance to meet you. Tell me anything,

905
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 6: Kevin Black and someone yeo about you know people who

906
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 6: don't put the cards back at supermarkets. Well that's a

907
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 6: good FaceTime. That's just as much as the equal on

908
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 6: opposite one is when Israel Gutierrez is talking about coming out.

909
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 6: You know, that to me was something I never would

910
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 6: have foresaw a sports debate show with a mute button

911
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 6: get into. But once I realized, yes, it's our show,

912
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 6: we can do that, we can do whatever you want.

913
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 6: Let's meet the people a little bit more, and allowed

914
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 6: myself to open up a little bit more.

915
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about how you opened up

916
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: in a moment.

917
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 2: But Tony, you saying that reminded me of one of

918
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: the narratives that really bothered me.

919
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 6: Oh that's a band phrase that around the horn. You

920
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 6: can say it here? Ye Well, you know I put

921
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 6: the button on that word, yes, overuse. I have this

922
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 6: list of band phrases and it's ten words and it

923
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 6: changes every day a bunch, like the scoring. But it's

924
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 6: because people have sports writers have over used that word.

925
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: You are absolutely right, I love this. That was sort

926
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 2: of like a that was a bubble mute.

927
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 6: I loved it, yea, yea one of.

928
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: The storylines, yes, exactly, yes so.

929
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 2: But one of the things that has come out ever

930
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: since it was announced that Around the Horn was ending,

931
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 2: and it was said by unfortunately a former Around the

932
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 2: Horn panelist, Jay Marriotty, is that when he said that

933
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 2: Around the Horn was ending because it was too woke,

934
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: And we know what has become this catch off phrase

935
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,479
Speaker 2: that people have weaponized to mean either things they don't

936
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 2: like or frankly, in my mind, I'll say it because

937
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 2: now that we're on my platform, I mean, I could

938
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 2: be as as petty as I want to, But I

939
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: think it had a lot to do with the fact

940
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 2: that you had diverse voices on the show, women, women

941
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 2: of color, you know, black men, you know, all kinds

942
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 2: of people on there, and suddenly the presence of these

943
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: people is considered too woke. But nevertheless, how did you

944
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 2: feel about Jay Marriotty saying that about this show?

945
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 6: Oh, I understand where that's coming from. Of course. I mean,

946
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 6: I worked with Jay for two thousand episodes. I've talked

947
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 6: about this a little bit. I'm happy to talk about

948
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 6: it here. You know, I was a very young TV

949
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 6: host when he was, you know, on this show every

950
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 6: single day, and a superstar on this show and so great.

951
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 6: And I don't want to get into the legality of anything,

952
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 6: so I don't have the words in front of me

953
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 6: now exactly what happened, but there are certain, you know,

954
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 6: things out of a twenty eight year old host control.

955
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 6: But I felt all of it. I felt a man

956
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,959
Speaker 6: whose career was now going away from him, and there's

957
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 6: hurt there. And I've tried to reach out with him

958
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 6: and have successfully. We've had good conversations over the last

959
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 6: ten years we've been apart, whatever it is, and they

960
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 6: would still always end in a place where his hurt

961
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 6: was very much his own hurt, and I have to

962
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 6: be aware of that. As far as the criticisms of

963
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 6: the show, I mean, I am fine with anyone feeling

964
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 6: any way about what's out there. I understand myself. I'm

965
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 6: not everybody's cup of tea, but I do know I've

966
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 6: had forty six and a half years of walking in

967
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 6: this skin around this earth. I get along with everybody,

968
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 6: and I want to get along with everybody, and I

969
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 6: will work to get along with everybody. It's a I'm

970
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 6: a pleaser to a fault. It's put me through therapy

971
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 6: for years. I have people in my own family who

972
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 6: I disagree with everything they feel on any number of topics,

973
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 6: and I love them and we live together, and that's

974
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 6: how I live the world. I don't ask how people

975
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 6: vote before we going around the horn. I'm happy to

976
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 6: talk about it because I could talk about anything. I

977
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 6: don't demand we only talk about one thing in any topic.

978
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 6: I'm having a conversation with you, and you want to

979
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 6: bring in something else, that's fine. I know we have

980
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,399
Speaker 6: people who family are from the military, family are from

981
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 6: the police, people who voted Republican voted them here. I'd

982
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 6: never really you could say there's more one way or

983
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 6: the other. I'm not counting. I'm not. I'm just not

984
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 6: going to operate or live in that space. You're gonna

985
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 6: tell me we did four nine hundred and fifty three

986
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 6: episodes and eight ten topics a day, Jamal, what is that?

987
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 6: It's five hundred thousand topics? May mean if we if

988
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 6: we went to a place that some people didn't like.

989
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 6: Ten times, that's what point two percent, twenty times, one

990
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 6: hundred times I've said things I wish I could take back.

991
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 6: I'm sure you know I've been been in moments before

992
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 6: where where you know you did the best you could

993
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 6: with a very difficult topic. I'm not this is we're

994
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 6: not trying to We're trying to have the best conversation

995
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 6: people who are being authentic and having that one moment

996
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 6: you could say you're not being authentic. I'm being authentic.

997
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 6: Ask anybody who knows me. I'm trying to be a

998
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 6: one to one ratio on air and off air. So

999
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 6: I recognize the show expanded its roster by my own

1000
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 6: desire to want to have as I mean, we needed

1001
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 6: to be able to talk about women's sports. You cannot

1002
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 6: tell me the roster we had our first five years

1003
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 6: of the show was best equipped to do that. We

1004
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 6: needed to be able to talk about you know, apply

1005
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 6: it to This was the advent of athletes having more

1006
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 6: of a voice. Absolutely, we needed to be having a

1007
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 6: conversation about when an athlete says like Osaka or small

1008
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 6: Biles are talking about their own mental health and something Okay,

1009
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 6: I want to have panelists who are maybe more open

1010
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 6: to do that. Does that now apply it to places

1011
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 6: that are spaces that are politics for people? Did? I

1012
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 6: took one episode and I talked about the special Olympics.

1013
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 6: This is something that's near and dear to my heart.

1014
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 6: I've worked it before. I've worked it as a kid,

1015
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 6: you know, I mean, this is this is we grew

1016
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 6: so so I did that go to a political space

1017
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 6: for some people? Take it any way you want. Forgive me.

1018
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 6: I put my heart out there. You know, That's how

1019
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 6: I see the world. If and then that happened. Ten

1020
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 6: of five hundred thousand episodes, one hundred of five hundred

1021
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 6: thousand topics. I'm sorry, you know, fifty thousand. My numbers

1022
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 6: are all mixed up, but you see what I'm saying.

1023
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 6: It was such a small percentage that I was able

1024
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 6: to say. It was just such a small percentage. But

1025
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 6: for somebody else it was the face of the show.

1026
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 6: So we just did a show last week and Kate

1027
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 6: Bacon used her FaceTime as she s's fit. You know,

1028
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 6: I'm not muting facetimes. I'm just not So another instance,

1029
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 6: we talked about the Olympics that were in China. We

1030
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 6: talked about the Olympics on a show then the host country,

1031
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 6: and a conversation played out after that. That's not inventing

1032
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 6: stories to talk about for the sake of wanting to

1033
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,720
Speaker 6: cudgel in topics that are near and dear to people's hearts.

1034
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 6: So though whenever criticism was made about the show, I

1035
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 6: felt like I had intention. I knew what I was.

1036
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 6: I knew how I was born and raised and who

1037
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 6: my parents are, and I knew, you know, I knew

1038
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 6: what my intention was. I knew how pure it was.

1039
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 6: I born in ash On TV for twenty three years.

1040
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 6: Does that mean I believe everything the Catholic Church does

1041
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 6: or doesn't believe? No, I'm my own person, you know.

1042
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 6: I was raised to be strong about that by my parents,

1043
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 6: or by the Jesuits or by the Christian Brothers. But

1044
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 6: that doesn't mean I defend everything. I'll go out. You know,

1045
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 6: I'm an Italian American. I said something bad about Columbus,

1046
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 6: or I didn't say something bad about Columbus. I said

1047
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 6: something factual about Columbus. And I don't think I got

1048
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 6: invited back to the Italian American Foundation, So be it.

1049
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 6: You know, no, one's going to question you know how

1050
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 6: I feel about things. This was a long answer, and

1051
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 6: I know, Jamel, I'm sorry. I guess what you're hearing

1052
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 6: is I heard it all. I feel it. But I

1053
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 6: hope what I'm saying is that's okay. You can feel

1054
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 6: a certain way, you can have feedback criticism. I think

1055
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 6: you'll find that I was a person who lived on

1056
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 6: social media and addressed criticism back at me in a

1057
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:35,399
Speaker 6: way that allowed it to be heard and said, yes,

1058
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 6: I took this criticism. Our roster got too big and

1059
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,760
Speaker 6: we brought in people you didn't like. I can understand

1060
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 6: that now see it from my perspective. I think I'm

1061
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 6: comfortable in addressing anybody at any moment, whether I did

1062
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 6: or it didn't. I mean, I think I am so.

1063
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 6: I wanted to model to people how you can say criticism,

1064
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 6: and that was something even when I responded to You know,

1065
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 6: some people we've worked with in the past and it's

1066
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 6: been very negative and Mariotti would be an example of that,

1067
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 6: or have too much edge, and Jason Whitlock would be

1068
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 6: an example of that. I'm not worked side by side

1069
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 6: with that, but Jason, for quite some time, he is

1070
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 6: a he and I have a knowledge of who each

1071
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 6: other are. He's going to say things that I think

1072
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 6: go over a line that come into my space. I'm

1073
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 6: gonna let him know that.

1074
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 2: And this is why Tony, you're one of the most

1075
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 2: well liked people in the business. You have a universal

1076
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: high approval rating, which is very hard to get in ours.

1077
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: I'll say it is like those criticisms were always intellectually

1078
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 2: lazy and bullshit because I know, you know the way

1079
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 2: that sometimes people responded, even with Kate, because I shared

1080
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 2: the FaceTime with her when when we were on together,

1081
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: and I thought what she said was amazing. But for people,

1082
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 2: it's not even about the discussion of these things which

1083
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 2: are related to sports.

1084
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that was to be fair, that was

1085
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 6: I mean, that's a FaceTime. So again, I'm not of

1086
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 6: the muting business. That is incredibly complex, the most complicated

1087
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,479
Speaker 6: story of its kind in our little space of the world,

1088
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 6: right in sports, right trans youth athletes. I don't think

1089
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 6: it was professional league and trans athletes in the w

1090
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 6: NBA versus the Olympics. It wasn't. It was. It was

1091
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 6: about that's the way she set it up, about thirteen

1092
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 6: year old kids wanting to be feel belonging in hys light.

1093
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 1: It was about the transformative power of sports.

1094
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 6: That was which I think everybody feels in belief. So

1095
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 6: now now she applies it to trans youth and there

1096
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 6: are people who feel they feel all sorts of way

1097
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 6: about that. But it wasn't like a decree that things

1098
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 6: need to be this way or anything, And this is like,

1099
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 6: this is how I feel. So this is how I feel.

1100
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 6: So we've had other examples in the SHAW again, I'll

1101
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 6: bring it up. I'm not going to reference specifically with

1102
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 6: the quotes, but we're talking about China hosting the Olympics

1103
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 6: and a comment is made about, you know, our country

1104
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 6: in it, and I responded back in kind in a

1105
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 6: way that so wait, wait, wait, let's le let's let's

1106
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 6: talk about what we're talking about here, and brought it

1107
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 6: back on point. That's the job of a host. The

1108
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 6: job isn't necessary to wag a finger or or you know,

1109
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 6: shut somebody out. I know there's a mute bunny, but

1110
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 6: in certain topics to shut shut down a conversation. This

1111
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 6: is This is one of the things I struggled with

1112
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 6: Jamelle because in my own person, I would never have

1113
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 6: a mute button in life. Ever, I would never shut

1114
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 6: somebody down. I would, you know, so here I'm gonna

1115
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 6: show it is. And now you're you're seeing the ebb

1116
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 6: and flow like I'm gonna shut you down in a

1117
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 6: in a conversation about you know, the goats of the NBA,

1118
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 6: if you bring up you know, Kobe, and I think

1119
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 6: you know it should be about Lebron or or Jordan.

1120
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 6: But I'm not gonna be doing that in the next

1121
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 6: conversation if you or might be able to connect those dots.

1122
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 6: And I'm not scoring this topic. You know, as it

1123
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 6: became and as you know it became with Kaepernick, or

1124
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 6: it became with you know, all these I mean, you're

1125
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 6: not doing your job if you're not addressing those topics.

1126
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 6: That's why we do it too much. I mean we're

1127
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 6: rian in the middle of a pandemic where no sports

1128
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 6: were happening, and then athletes were positioning conversations that were

1129
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 6: a little bit different. Yes, I can admit to all this.

1130
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 6: The topics became harder to come by, you know, not

1131
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 6: the stories became harder to come by. I'm sorry. The

1132
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 6: topics became more challenging to discuss. You know, we were

1133
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 6: thrust more challenging stories, but we were going to try

1134
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 6: to talk about them like the people with the expertise

1135
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 6: that we had on the show that day. And that's

1136
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 6: you know, I can't say it any other way than

1137
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 6: we had right intentions. And maybe you would have said

1138
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 6: they should have hired six more panels from a different

1139
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 6: part of the country and brought in, you know, four

1140
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 6: more panelists that you know, we're from different you know backgrounds. Yeah,

1141
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 6: I guess we could. I would like to for the

1142
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 6: next ten years of the show elsewhere. Yeah, but that's

1143
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 6: where we are.

1144
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I get it, you know, But that, to

1145
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 2: me was the heart of Around the Horn is being

1146
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 2: able to have granted into bite sized time like some

1147
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 2: of those tough conversations, but real and authentic conversations. And you,

1148
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 2: especially when it comes to opening up who you are

1149
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 2: in your life, have been especially candid. You know, Tony,

1150
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 2: you and your wife Sammy, you guys had twins. You

1151
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 2: lost one of those twins, your son Amadeo. You revealed

1152
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 2: this publicly in an Instagram post and then on an

1153
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 2: episode of Around the Horn, you and panelists is real.

1154
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 2: Gudierres he gifted his face time to you and you

1155
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 2: had this to say about the loss of your son.

1156
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 6: The notes and the condolences my wife Samy and I

1157
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 6: have received have gone right into our soul. And I

1158
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 6: wanted to say that talking about the duality of losing

1159
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 6: a child, your childbirth and delivering another healthy one is impossible.

1160
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 6: I was talking about this yesterday on Twitter. How can

1161
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 6: you ever be whole again? Parents have had to go

1162
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 6: through this before. I'm going through this now, and I

1163
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 6: spent time, you know, pledging that it's not it's okay

1164
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 6: not to be okay. And for me, the recognition that

1165
00:58:58,440 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 6: I've come to is that life can be out of

1166
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 6: our control and that's okay. It's how we respond and

1167
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 6: what we do, that's what we have control of. So

1168
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 6: here's where I am today. Grief is part of humanity.

1169
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 6: Grief is proof of humanity. Parents dealing with loss, or

1170
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 6: anybody dealing with loss, meet yourself where you are. Give

1171
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 6: voice to your feelings. Young men, young women watching this

1172
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 6: can be how you grieve. Don't bury your heart, keep

1173
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 6: it on the outside and look to other people because

1174
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 6: humanity can lift us. That has been my experience. But

1175
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 6: I need to say this now, more duality. If I'm

1176
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,479
Speaker 6: brutally honest. Today, my thoughts were children in cages. That's

1177
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 6: parents experiencing laws too. Humanity needs to be better. I'm ada, Oh,

1178
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 6: I love you forever. You're named for God's love. Maybe

1179
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 6: you all be craving it. Maybe we all be giving

1180
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 6: it to each other, and maybe we all be compassionate

1181
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 6: enough to give it to all.

1182
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 2: Now, Tony, you've been very open about your grieving process,

1183
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of people have really appreciated

1184
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 2: being let in. But how did you publicly sharing what

1185
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 2: you were going through? How did that impact your greeting process?

1186
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 6: Oh? Yeah, I mean I'll say this first. You know,

1187
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 6: Sam and I breathe differently, live differently. You know, she's

1188
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 6: not a public person. I mean you see a photo

1189
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 6: behind her behind me right now of Sammy. I mean

1190
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 6: it took us years for me to be like, oh

1191
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 6: come on, let me show you know, you know, and

1192
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 6: I told her her you know, I gave a eulogi.

1193
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 6: Of course, it wasn't too dissimilar to what I actually

1194
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 6: just said on TV to of course, my parents and

1195
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 6: her parents and everybody. That day, we we we said

1196
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 6: goodbye to Amadeo, and I said, this is how I

1197
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 6: do it. You know, I need to be able to

1198
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 6: to communicate this and put this out. Something in my

1199
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 6: life changed even before this, this particular event, you know,

1200
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 6: having Francesca Even and Sam is an incredible business person

1201
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 6: in travels abroad. And I was doing the show and

1202
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 6: doing Good Morning America and watching a baby along with

1203
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 6: some help from Grandma and really burning it too much

1204
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 6: at both ends, and I first experienced real anxiety disorder

1205
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 6: to the point where, you know, I'm not one for labels,

1206
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 6: but I certainly called a postpartum hotline or phone number

1207
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 6: and didn't get picked up, but got a call back

1208
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 6: a couple hours later in the middle of the night.

1209
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 6: The longest time in my life. This was. So I'm

1210
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 6: telling you all this to say this was a moment

1211
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 6: where it was the most pointed moment of my life.

1212
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 6: We just lost Amidale, But I had already done a

1213
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 6: lot of work on myself leading up into that. That

1214
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 6: wasn't just something happened to me and now I'm feeling

1215
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 6: my way through it. I was, but I had been

1216
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 6: going to therapy and am a big proponent for talk

1217
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 6: therapy for years. I had already been able to recognize

1218
01:01:55,960 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 6: some things in me and what it was was, I

1219
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 6: I am a person. I feel everything inside you, but

1220
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 6: I feel everything inside you too. This is called transfer instance.

1221
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 6: There's a lot of things, and I had to come

1222
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 6: to gris with that. But then I realized one of

1223
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 6: the things I could do is if I'm going through something,

1224
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 6: I could put it outward to somebody projected outward and

1225
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 6: it could help them. So this is a long way

1226
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 6: to say, I knew I had a space in me

1227
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 6: to do that as a person, and I knew I

1228
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 6: had an opportunity on air to talk about something that's

1229
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 6: not talked about much, which is lost still birth and

1230
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 6: loss of life and the grieving process. Because to me, Jamelle,

1231
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 6: as I said in the post and on it, grief

1232
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 6: is part of life. Grief is proof of life, and

1233
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 6: mental health is simply health. I think of it as

1234
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 6: I would, you know, any type of ailment I would

1235
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 6: have on any given day, stomach ache, a headache, a

1236
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 6: pull the hamsterring. Today, you know, there are no good

1237
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 6: feelings and bad feelings. They're just feelings, and we're going

1238
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 6: to navigate what that is. And I want to communicate

1239
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 6: all these things as as a person. But a sports

1240
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 6: show with a mute button, you know, how can I

1241
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 6: do it here? But Israel and I had already shared

1242
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 6: some moments together where where you know, it made sense

1243
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 6: for me to talk about it on teaving. I say

1244
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 6: all this because it's important for me for viewers to know,

1245
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 6: you know, to live in their feelings and with their feelings,

1246
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 6: and it's important for me, even a young people to know.

1247
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 6: You know, your sports may be the first time you

1248
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 6: think about your feelings in a way like you can

1249
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 6: you really sad when your team loses, and you're happy

1250
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 6: when your team wins, and you can't process what that

1251
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 6: is when you're working through something with your parents or

1252
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 6: your siblings. But it's a lot easier to do it

1253
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 6: when it's you know, they missed the shot, we lost

1254
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 6: the game. So leaving a space in our show for

1255
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 6: that became a mission of mind the emotion of a show,

1256
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 6: you know. And then of course it has played out

1257
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 6: where other panelists took that opportunity to do that as well,

1258
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 6: and now that is a legacy of the show. I'm

1259
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 6: incredibly proud of.

1260
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how does it make you feel?

1261
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 2: Because I've seen several other of your colleagues who have

1262
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 2: just talked about how you had an impact on their

1263
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 2: life and the show did because of the way you

1264
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 2: opened up.

1265
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 6: You know.

1266
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 2: David Dennis Junior, who is a panelist the regular panelists

1267
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 2: on Around the Horner, and he wor at this amazing

1268
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 2: piece for Ndscape about how Around the Horn was more

1269
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 2: than a show for him and how it came around

1270
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 2: at a time where he was struggling. And Mike Ryan

1271
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 2: has talked about the producer for the Dan Lebatar Show.

1272
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: He's talked about how you were there for him. When

1273
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 2: people are telling these stories about how their connection to

1274
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 2: you and their connection to the show is more than

1275
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: just you know, dumb sports writers like arguing about things

1276
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 2: that you know can't really be settled.

1277
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: How does that make you feel?

1278
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:05,439
Speaker 8: Yeah?

1279
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 6: Well, I mean I want to say this to anybody.

1280
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 6: You know, you got to reach out to people in life.

1281
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 6: You know you can't do it all on your own.

1282
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 6: I was somebody who was always going to get to

1283
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 6: where I wanted to go by force of will, enthusiasm,

1284
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 6: energy and positivity. I wanted every day to be the

1285
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 6: greatest day ever. Now we know what this is. You

1286
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 6: can't live in bliss, You can't have the greatest day ever.

1287
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 6: You can't. So I say that because the two examples

1288
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 6: you just I mean, I've worked with David for a

1289
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 6: few years. Mike reached out to me in ways that

1290
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 6: were incredible, and we had been in the same space

1291
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 6: as each other two or three times in advance of that.

1292
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 6: So sometimes it's easier to reach out to somebody that

1293
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 6: is not exactly in your family, in your space. You know,

1294
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 6: I've had I've struggled with this, you know, as I'm

1295
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 6: navigating things with people I love so much in my

1296
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 6: family that I can actually affect change or do something

1297
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 6: for somebody that is not as physically close to me

1298
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 6: and and and have a great relationship where we both

1299
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 6: fell lifted up by each other. But I can't even

1300
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 6: do it with my own person right here. And that

1301
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 6: that's that's a riddle of life maybe, and I don't

1302
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 6: need to come to an answer with that. But things

1303
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 6: don't just get better on their own, and things don't

1304
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 6: just get better in time. They get better with time

1305
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 6: and work. You have to put in work, but you're

1306
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 6: not always in position to do the work. You know.

1307
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 6: I have friends who we have talked about it. They

1308
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 6: go to talk therapy and then they want to just

1309
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 6: go out and live maybe as someone else they've seen

1310
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 6: who's gone through it. You're still in it. You know,

1311
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 6: you shouldn't necessarily try to be getting so far ahead

1312
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 6: of yourself. Yeah, have to. So it makes you feel

1313
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 6: part of something. You want to feel good about yourself,

1314
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 6: do something for other people. That's a good little thing

1315
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 6: that I think about all the time. But also it

1316
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 6: makes you realize, you know, as simple as this, you

1317
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 6: never know what someone else is going through on the

1318
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 6: other side. And that's why, to harken back to the

1319
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 6: last conversation we have, I never take any I always

1320
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 6: think of as feedback, but not criticism of the show

1321
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 6: or anything like that. That's you know, somebody had said,

1322
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 6: you know that we worked with Yeah, of course, you

1323
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 6: never know what they're going through, so you I mean,

1324
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 6: it's almost like a pause that you have to put

1325
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 6: into your initial whoa, whoa, whoa every time you're dealing

1326
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 6: with somebody else, because they're seeing it through their own eyes,

1327
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 6: you know. And also you should be viewing yourself as

1328
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 6: the subject of your sentence and not the object of theirs, right,

1329
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 6: so you have to recognize it's a very grammatical way

1330
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 6: to think about it. I did it for you beause

1331
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 6: you're a writer. But I mean, I mean you're the

1332
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 6: subject of your own sentence. Take ownership over there, right.

1333
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 6: I mean just because they said this doesn't mean that's

1334
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 6: you know, you know your truth and you should be

1335
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 6: putting in the work to figure out if your truth

1336
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 6: is right, you know the right truth for you that day.

1337
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:22,639
Speaker 6: So it's it's a job that I think I always

1338
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 6: had in me to be out public. And I am

1339
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 6: comfortable now saying modeling one way to do things, not

1340
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,959
Speaker 6: the only way, not the best way, but I'm comfortable

1341
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 6: putting myself out there because if you can talk about

1342
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 6: an experience that you've been through, you could help somebody

1343
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 6: else who may be going through something similar in their

1344
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 6: own way.

1345
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 2: So, Tony, this is going to be a major pivot

1346
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 2: in your life. You've had the same job for twenty

1347
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 2: plus years and now Tony, reality is going to be

1348
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 2: a free agent, I think. So, you know, are you

1349
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:57,799
Speaker 2: going to have a press conference at the to announce

1350
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: where you're going next? But what, in all seriousness, what

1351
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 2: does this next phase of your life? How are you

1352
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 2: handling such a big pivot out of this?

1353
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 6: Well, I'm handling it is a good way to say, Jamal,

1354
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 6: I know Sammy and other people in my life are

1355
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 6: like man because they know how I dealt with Horn,

1356
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 6: like it was a child of mine.

1357
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: You so much of that into into the show.

1358
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 6: Your Yes, I lived and died with every ep right.

1359
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 6: So the point is that you know, I siloed myself

1360
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 6: away purposefully, and I just I was discerning about other

1361
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 6: uh you know things I could have done other other projects,

1362
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 6: very discerning. I didn't take on a podcast in hindsight seeing. Uh.

1363
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 6: You know how ownership works in the business. You know,

1364
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 6: it's an amazing thing. You know, hot Ones the day

1365
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 6: our store, our show was, we got the news hot

1366
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 6: Ones was on the open market selling for real money.

1367
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 6: And this show for me, which I did four thousand

1368
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 6: ullered times, is now maybe going in the ESPN Bolt.

1369
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 6: I have no idea, I mean I don't, I haven't.

1370
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 6: I haven't heard a lot with what the plan is.

1371
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 6: I know what my I know what it's in my heart.

1372
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:07,599
Speaker 6: You know, I want to do a lot of things now.

1373
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 6: You know, I'm somebody who immediately, in the immediate wants

1374
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 6: to continue to connect with the people who who we

1375
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 6: owe so much to, Even as small as that was

1376
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:24,800
Speaker 6: that day you were on last week. There's some dude

1377
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 6: outside our studio that I shared with them. Jammel felt good.

1378
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,640
Speaker 6: There's got to be a way now. I want to

1379
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 6: do some fun things. I got to create technology, Jammel,

1380
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 6: But I want to do around the hoard with the

1381
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 6: viewers at home. I mean, I've done it with you before.

1382
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 6: I've always heard how you score the show. You've ever

1383
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:43,600
Speaker 6: thought about having an average fan on maybe not on

1384
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 6: ESPN air waves, but now there's plenty of places for

1385
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 6: me to do it. I want to do things like that.

1386
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 6: I want to do the biggest sports in the world,

1387
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 6: you know, I mean, I want I want to do

1388
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 6: the biggest stories. But even you know, with that, I

1389
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 6: want to own something that is that is entirely my own.

1390
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 6: I want to I want to do game shows, Jamel.

1391
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 6: You know I love game shows. I grew up writing

1392
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 6: sports trivia questions. I want to do that again. I've

1393
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:12,639
Speaker 6: got Google documents full of that. But I'm certainly looking

1394
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 6: over a cliff now and thinking, Wow, there's so much

1395
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,439
Speaker 6: I could do, But I am navigating. Wow, let's, you know,

1396
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 6: let's try to focus on one thing. You know, Dad's

1397
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 6: gotta work I'm definitely seeing that. Okay, So I know,

1398
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 6: you know, May twenty fourth, the first day that there

1399
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 6: isn't a horn. That's gonna be something. I'm gonna have

1400
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 6: to live by the code that I just talked about

1401
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 6: dealing with my emotions and being truthful to tell how

1402
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 6: I feel about that. How do you say goodbye to

1403
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 6: something you know? I don't know if I know that yet.

1404
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 6: I've never been broken up with Jamel. This is the

1405
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 6: first time I'm being broken up with, so I need

1406
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 6: to know how that feels.

1407
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 1: Well. I can tell you haven't gone through the breakup.

1408
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: It's a little weird at first.

1409
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'll want to ask you about that. I mean,

1410
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 6: I'm in a situation now where I'm known for nine

1411
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 6: months or seven months. There's the expression, uh. I think

1412
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 6: it's you know, the Irish goodbye. Oh yeah, I'm in

1413
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 6: an Italian goodbye right now. I've been saying goodbye for

1414
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,759
Speaker 6: six months or four months. I've talked to a few people,

1415
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 6: you know, I've been thinking about it every show. I

1416
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 6: want everyone to have their moment, right, you know. I

1417
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 6: want everyone to get a FaceTime. I want all the

1418
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 6: I'm trying to I'm Red Panda I'm spinning eight plates now,

1419
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 6: but Dad's gonna find a job. And I'm talking to

1420
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:29,799
Speaker 6: the most amazing people in the business, and I'm loving

1421
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 6: those meetings, and I'm just imagining what if I did

1422
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 6: you know my own I'll ask you. I mean YouTube, right,

1423
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 6: It's the most used and stream thing in the world.

1424
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 6: Where's the traditional sports media person on YouTube? And I'm

1425
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 6: not talking about a simoch. I can create every day, yeah,

1426
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 6: and I can give it to you every day. You know.

1427
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 6: I might be in that space very soon, while also

1428
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 6: doing the greatest games we all while also doing a

1429
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 6: game show, you know. So I'm I'm gonna fork in

1430
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,759
Speaker 6: a row, but my fork looks more like a spork,

1431
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 6: you know. I'm all up in here, Bruce Lee, the

1432
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 6: five finger death paunch or something. I don't know. I'm

1433
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 6: going to see what I'm doing. I'm making up like

1434
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 6: seven different metaphors.

1435
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: I'm picking up what you're putting down. I don't know.

1436
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 2: Maybe one of those jobs could be replacing Ernie Johnson

1437
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:22,759
Speaker 2: once he retired.

1438
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 6: Oh, don't say that, there's no replace. First off, there's

1439
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 6: no I got myself in trouble because I talked with

1440
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:32,799
Speaker 6: such enthusiasm and excitement, and I idolize jobs and people

1441
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 6: in my life.

1442
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 2: And Ernie Johnson is retiring, so this is not yes

1443
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:38,920
Speaker 2: he is. He is not immediately, but he is hinted.

1444
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 6: We're all retiring. I hope he goes on until forever.

1445
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 6: I want to say this loud and clear. I am

1446
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 6: the type of person who likes to create an event,

1447
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 6: and I'm going to invent the next job jiml just

1448
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 6: as much as as maybe initially when when I was

1449
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 6: going through I was talking about chairs that already exist,

1450
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:04,879
Speaker 6: and you just imagine yourself in that. That's a great,

1451
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 6: you know, barometer or a compass to shoot for. But

1452
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 6: I know me. I'm a test kitchen type guy. That's

1453
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 6: why you didn't see me doing Sports Center and a

1454
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 6: fantasy football show and all these other I always thought

1455
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 6: around the Horn and PTI strength of these two shows,

1456
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 6: the two best shows on ESPN, were because they were

1457
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 6: different than those other shows. You felt different. Maybe you

1458
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 6: feel that way too, may maybe other viewers feel that way.

1459
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 6: It didn't feel like some you know, some of the

1460
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 6: other shows that originated from Bristol or elsewhere. Right, they

1461
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 6: had a rundown, they had a horn, they had a

1462
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 6: different people, they had a different cast. Those were important

1463
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,719
Speaker 6: to me. You know, I didn't go to a big college,

1464
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,719
Speaker 6: you know. You know, I'm very proud to have worked

1465
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:46,759
Speaker 6: with this company now twenty five years, and I'm happy.

1466
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 6: I'm not jaded. I'm still the great sports fan I

1467
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 6: always was, which is an amazing thing. After four nine

1468
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 6: hundred and fifty three episodes. Some people might take that.

1469
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 6: You may go the other way with that, and that's

1470
01:14:56,160 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 6: not me, but on my own dude, you know, So

1471
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 6: being comfortable with finally being able to be proud, that's

1472
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 6: been a journey for me. Jamel. You I mean, you've

1473
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:11,759
Speaker 6: been in my space and I've been in your space.

1474
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 6: We've all dealt with imposter syndrome. We've all faded, faked

1475
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 6: it till we made it. You know, those are things

1476
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 6: for a reason. People say that, But you got to

1477
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 6: do the work to get to the next stage. It's

1478
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:25,600
Speaker 6: above that, which isn't just the power of yes and

1479
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 6: saying yes to every job is the power no and

1480
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 6: say I know who I am. So I know who

1481
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 6: I am. I'm not worried about the great beyond of

1482
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 6: what's going to be out there, and I'm not just

1483
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 6: imagining the great, you know, fill in the chair of

1484
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 6: the last great that was before me. I want to

1485
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 6: invent the new one. I believe in that because I

1486
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 6: think I'm a one of one, you know, a real

1487
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 6: one of one, you know, who's not necessarily just a

1488
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 6: host about sports stats or a guy who can only

1489
01:15:56,439 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 6: work with a mute button. You know. I could around

1490
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:02,680
Speaker 6: the world any number of ways. However, they said that,

1491
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:04,800
Speaker 6: you know, you know, it's going away. I'm like, I

1492
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 6: could tell me how you want it. I'll give you

1493
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 6: any way you want it. I could do any hot

1494
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 6: job you want. You want to put Kayson it on,

1495
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:14,879
Speaker 6: so not on, and Kat Williams and and a comedian

1496
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 6: and and you know, and you want to put you know,

1497
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 6: four people and mess around. I could be that host too,

1498
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:21,600
Speaker 6: you know. I could be the host that's doing a

1499
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 6: show on sports parenting, you know, and dealing in uge sports,

1500
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 6: which I really believe in. I think there needs to

1501
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 6: be forms for that, and I think it's a huge market.

1502
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:32,639
Speaker 6: And all you ever hear Jamail was about the dad

1503
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 6: punched the referee in the game and it's the end

1504
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 6: of the and the coaches hate the parents. I want

1505
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:41,639
Speaker 6: to live in a space where We're talking about how

1506
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,519
Speaker 6: parents talk to their children, and how children talk to

1507
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 6: their parents, and how the relationship gets lifted by this

1508
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 6: wonderful thing. We're talking about sports. So it's not about

1509
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 6: the parent punching the ref. It's about those thirty minutes

1510
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 6: you're in the car with your dad and mom or

1511
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 6: vice versa with your kid, thirty minutes to the game,

1512
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 6: thirty minutes back. That's when parenting's start. That's when the

1513
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:07,719
Speaker 6: relationship is really built up. There's something out there now

1514
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 6: that the landscape is so big where I'm doing that,

1515
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 6: So that's not you know, necessarily. I mean, I think

1516
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 6: Ernie Johnson is one of the most admirable people in

1517
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 6: the business. Everything you hear about it, so I think

1518
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 6: he could do that too. But that's kind of where

1519
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:22,679
Speaker 6: I want to what I want to be as well.

1520
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 2: You know, so have how much have you thought about

1521
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 2: how the final show is going to feel?

1522
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 6: A lot? I had a Google document opened six months ago.

1523
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 6: That's how I dealt with you. You know, I was

1524
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 6: sad that I was sad, If that makes sense. I

1525
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 6: think I said it. No, maybe I said it not

1526
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 6: to you, but I said a note to everybody who

1527
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 6: works on the show. Like I I was trying to

1528
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 6: do the work to keep it going. You know, I

1529
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 6: tried to take meetings, tried to get more meetings, you know,

1530
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:54,760
Speaker 6: I wanted more meetings, AND's let's talk about it. You know,

1531
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 6: how do you want if you want to refresh the show,

1532
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 6: Let's refresh the show. You know we're doing good. I'm

1533
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 6: seeing all of our people elsewhere on all these other

1534
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 6: great shows, and our ratings are up, So how do

1535
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,200
Speaker 6: you want me to refresh it? Refresh it? So then

1536
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 6: I was sad that. I was sad when they said

1537
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 6: because it's their decision. You know, they're making it for

1538
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 6: whatever reason they are. I don't need to convince them.

1539
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 6: I'm not in that. So now I'm like, Okay, well,

1540
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 6: what can we do. We do the best show we

1541
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 6: can for the next six months. I've been proud of that,

1542
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 6: but you know, you know me, I want to make

1543
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:27,719
Speaker 6: a little movie in my last show. I've procured music rights.

1544
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 6: We're working with ESPN's rights. It's hard to do there,

1545
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 6: but it's hard to do. But I see these other

1546
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 6: shows have real music on them. When I'm watching Game

1547
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 6: Day and First Takes got you know, it's time for

1548
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 6: some of us to get that too. And I made

1549
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:46,559
Speaker 6: a phone call to a franchise that is near and

1550
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 6: dear to our heart, in our family, our favorite team,

1551
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:53,120
Speaker 6: and they and somebody who's near and dear to that

1552
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 6: franchise who's a superstar now who may be making an appearance.

1553
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 6: So all I'm saying is I'm gonna have so fun

1554
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 6: with with the first couple of minutes of show, and

1555
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 6: then that's me, that's my that's part of my goodbye.

1556
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 6: And maybe I'll have the last words too. The host

1557
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 6: is gonna have the last words the show. But I

1558
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:14,559
Speaker 6: definitely need to to see our ogs. We're ogs for Europe,

1559
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:17,599
Speaker 6: for your emogs. We want people to call our original

1560
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:19,600
Speaker 6: gut you see how the lame I am. Uh, you

1561
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 6: know our original Gangsters. You know. Yeah, we don't make

1562
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 6: show one or two or three without Woody and Bob

1563
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 6: and Jackie. And we're gonna see everybody we saw you

1564
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 6: last week and I was so thankful for that, and

1565
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:33,920
Speaker 6: uh and and and Sarah Spain and and and We're

1566
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 6: we're bringing back everybody that that we we really can

1567
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 6: logistically bring back at this moment, which means, you know,

1568
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:42,559
Speaker 6: we only got six shows left or whatever it is.

1569
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,600
Speaker 6: And so, but I'm gonna cook a little bit in

1570
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 6: that last show. You're gonna You're gonna get, You're gonna

1571
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 6: get reality cooking.

1572
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:51,559
Speaker 1: I love this. Well.

1573
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 2: Before we wrap this episode up, Tony, I always end

1574
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 2: every episode with what I call the messy question.

1575
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 1: Tony, this is where we make the headline.

1576
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:02,040
Speaker 6: Okay, go make a headline.

1577
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:03,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is where we make the headlines. Andy,

1578
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 2: listen with the show ending, it's a great time for it.

1579
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:11,559
Speaker 2: So here is the messy question. There have been I

1580
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:15,839
Speaker 2: think around sixty around the Horn panelists.

1581
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 6: Yes, don't ask me who my favorite show.

1582
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:20,640
Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask you your favorite is.

1583
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 2: But could the around sixty or so around the Horn

1584
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:28,879
Speaker 2: panelists who have appeared on the show in the show's history,

1585
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:30,799
Speaker 2: could they beat one gorilla?

1586
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:38,759
Speaker 6: Y Sarah Spain could be one gorilla on her own? Okay,

1587
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 6: let's all with that one. I like our chances against

1588
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 6: anybody in the animal Kingdom. You ma, anybody, I think

1589
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:53,800
Speaker 6: you'd have to engineer some sort of I mean, even

1590
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:56,759
Speaker 6: AI with synthient thinking. I mean, I think we got them.

1591
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:59,720
Speaker 6: So it's got to be it's got to be some

1592
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 6: form from a different gallery. I mean, you got no shot.

1593
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:07,840
Speaker 6: You're rolling with with Jackie mcmowan and Sarah Spain, who's

1594
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:11,680
Speaker 6: got the pointiest elbows in the world. You got Kevin Blackstone,

1595
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 6: who might just start reading you uh, a think piece

1596
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:17,320
Speaker 6: that would put the gorilla to sleep in some ways.

1597
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 6: You got you know when I say that, you know

1598
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 6: that's a softball question. Okay, No, I mean I would

1599
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 6: love I would love all sixty of us to get

1600
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 6: together somewhere in the world and and just uh and

1601
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,639
Speaker 6: then have a live audience in front of us and

1602
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 6: no mew button and and and see if we can

1603
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:39,679
Speaker 6: do like a talk marathon and see who drops last?

1604
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 6: That's what I wanted to Who drops last? Who could?

1605
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 6: And the joke of it all is that I'd be

1606
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:48,959
Speaker 6: the last person standing. I was the one who who's

1607
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 6: my job? But but if you remove me from that,

1608
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 6: you know who who would have the absolute last word?

1609
01:21:55,479 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 6: It would be between Woody Page, Bomani Jones, Bob Bryan

1610
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:07,719
Speaker 6: and Sarah Spain. Those four, Yeah, those those four would

1611
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 6: be the So who's the last four standing? Let's answer

1612
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 6: it like that. Who's the who is the big was

1613
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 6: it was a gorilla? You said, who's the big gorilla

1614
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 6: of our show, you know, and who's the last person standing.

1615
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:18,679
Speaker 6: It's it's gonna be what he paiged. Yet he has

1616
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:22,719
Speaker 6: the will to do what others won't in a debate.

1617
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:24,799
Speaker 6: That's I'll answer that question.

1618
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 1: I think I tend to agree with you on that. Well.

1619
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 2: Listen, as I said at the beginning, Tony, thank you

1620
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 2: so much for taking this time. I know you don't

1621
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 2: do these interviews very often, so I did not.

1622
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:39,640
Speaker 6: For many many years. I mean, that's how much I

1623
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 6: love this show, and I love all of you. I mean,

1624
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:47,000
Speaker 6: I I hope you getting your your rightful du as

1625
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 6: as a panelist on the show. I make you a

1626
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 6: mission of my life the last you know, four months

1627
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:57,040
Speaker 6: to tell the people in your life how they have

1628
01:22:57,160 --> 01:23:00,680
Speaker 6: impacted you. And you and I I grew up a

1629
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:04,920
Speaker 6: little bit on TV, both of us and our careers

1630
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 6: are different, of course, and and you did try some

1631
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 6: incredible things, which I am. So it's such an admirable tree,

1632
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:15,160
Speaker 6: you know. I think his and hers was incredible. I

1633
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 6: think I Choku and stayed on TV for for thirty years,

1634
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:19,040
Speaker 6: much like PTI.

1635
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, we did.

1636
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 2: I think Mike and I both told you this, Me

1637
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 2: and Michael Smith that we knew so much of what

1638
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,639
Speaker 2: we learned on around the Horn working with you all

1639
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 2: and brought it to his and hers.

1640
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean we didn't we didn't necessarily have a mute,

1641
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 1: but right, but.

1642
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:36,640
Speaker 6: You're talking about a dynamic, and again that was that

1643
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:40,479
Speaker 6: was a friendship dynamic. So what I'm trying to say

1644
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:44,400
Speaker 6: is you've taken risks in your career. I mean, headlines

1645
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:46,320
Speaker 6: will tell you you've taken risks in a lot of ways.

1646
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:50,879
Speaker 6: I mean, I know who you are to a certain extent,

1647
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:53,880
Speaker 6: and I love that person. I mean, and then and

1648
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:59,080
Speaker 6: and I love how you are relentlessly yourself. And that's

1649
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 6: what I would tell everybody when I called them before

1650
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 6: their first show. I'm not sure I did this, you know,

1651
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 6: six with you because I was still feeling myself out.

1652
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 6: Who would I be to say? You know? You know

1653
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:09,600
Speaker 6: I always try to tell people I'm proud for you.

1654
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 6: I'm not proud of you. I mean, that's not my

1655
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:13,559
Speaker 6: position to be proud of you. I'm proud for you, you know,

1656
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 6: you know, but you're on this show to be you

1657
01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 6: be you. You know, when I got in this industry, somebody,

1658
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:25,880
Speaker 6: you know, ESPN sent down a voice coach to work

1659
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,960
Speaker 6: with me, right, And I was wearing a suit those

1660
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:32,520
Speaker 6: first couple of years, you know, and I was trying

1661
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 6: to yes in order to get the job. Sometimes you

1662
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:38,040
Speaker 6: got to do that. But part of my goal was

1663
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 6: then to make other people feel like they can be

1664
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 6: themselves on TV or they could see themselves on TV,

1665
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 6: you know. And now, I mean, you're the perfect example

1666
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:50,680
Speaker 6: of that for everybody. Right, you have, you know, and

1667
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:53,519
Speaker 6: you take it. You know, no show last forever. So

1668
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 6: as as Sports Center went away, you know, it goes away.

1669
01:24:57,240 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 6: Some days we're all NBA coaches. Do you want to

1670
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 6: you in a title? And two years later you're looking

1671
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:05,439
Speaker 6: for a job, And that doesn't mean the title goes.

1672
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 2: Away, you know, classic Tony reality complement toward him and

1673
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 2: turning it back on you.

1674
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:14,599
Speaker 1: But it will.

1675
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 2: It will be sad for me to see it go.

1676
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:20,599
Speaker 2: But I guess I'm one of those people to use

1677
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:23,679
Speaker 2: the old phrase. I smile and laugh because it happened.

1678
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:28,599
Speaker 2: I don't fine because it's over anyway. Thank you, Tony,

1679
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 2: appreciate you, and I can't wait to see this final.

1680
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:32,240
Speaker 6: Show, Alrighty.

1681
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:36,280
Speaker 2: One more segment to go coming up next, the final Spin,

1682
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,519
Speaker 2: all right, everybody. Time for the final spin, I give

1683
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,920
Speaker 2: you the topic, then the spin, and finally the truth.

1684
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:53,120
Speaker 1: Today's topic.

1685
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 2: NFL owners have voted to permit players to participate in

1686
01:25:56,479 --> 01:25:59,600
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty eight Summer Olympics and flag football. A

1687
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:02,320
Speaker 2: max of one player per team will be allowed to

1688
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:06,200
Speaker 2: play in. Each club's designated international player is also permitted

1689
01:26:06,360 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 2: to take part for his.

1690
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: Country the spin.

1691
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:12,000
Speaker 2: According to the NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, this is part

1692
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 2: of the NFL's increased efforts to.

1693
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 1: Make football global.

1694
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:19,040
Speaker 2: Now the real Now, if you think players like Lamar

1695
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 2: Jackson or Sakwon Barkley or any of the top guys

1696
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 2: are going to be competing in flag football, you need

1697
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 2: to temper and greatly lower those expectations. I do not

1698
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 2: envision the NFL putting together a team that would be

1699
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 2: the equivalent of what we had with the Dream Team

1700
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:35,320
Speaker 2: and men's basketball in nineteen ninety two, with Michael Jordan

1701
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 2: and all those guys. Now, I know that playing for

1702
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,559
Speaker 2: Olympic gold is something that many players embrace, but the

1703
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 2: NFL is a grueling league. They're also talking about adding

1704
01:26:44,280 --> 01:26:48,200
Speaker 2: an eighteenth game, and from a body an injury management standpoint,

1705
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 2: how exactly is this supposed to work?

1706
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 6: Now?

1707
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 2: How pissed would you be if you were a Buffalo

1708
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:55,639
Speaker 2: Bills fan and Josh Allen blew his knee out playing

1709
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:56,799
Speaker 2: some damn football.

1710
01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 6: Now.

1711
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 2: I know the nature of flag football and the NFL

1712
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 2: are different, but don't get attached to this idea of

1713
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:07,240
Speaker 2: the big Stars plan. I think there's way too much

1714
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:08,479
Speaker 2: left to be figured out.

1715
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:09,479
Speaker 1: All right.

1716
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,320
Speaker 2: I love hearing from you all. You can hit me

1717
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 2: up on social media or on email. I'm at Jamail

1718
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:17,479
Speaker 2: Hill across all social media platforms, Twitter, Instagram, fan Base,

1719
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 2: and Blue Sky and threads.

1720
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 1: Please use the hashtags politics.

1721
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:24,440
Speaker 2: You also have the option of emailing me at Spolitics

1722
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:26,800
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. You can also

1723
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 2: send me a video of your question, but please make

1724
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 2: sure it's thirty seconds or less. Don't forget to follow

1725
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:35,679
Speaker 2: and subscribe to Spolitics on iHeart and follows Politics pod

1726
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is spelled s po l

1727
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 2: I tics. A new episode of Spolitics drops every Thursday

1728
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 2: on iHeart Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This

1729
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:51,000
Speaker 2: is politics where sports and politics don't just mix, they matter.

1730
01:27:54,360 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 2: Spolitics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.

1731
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:03,559
Speaker 2: I'm Your Host Jammel. Executive producer is Taylor Chicoigne. Lucas

1732
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 2: Hyman is head of Audio and executive producer. Original music

1733
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 2: First Politics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz FX