1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: La Latino USA listener. It's Maria Inojosa. So we've been 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: listening to a new podcast series from Arizona Republic and 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Azycentral dot com and well, we think you're going to 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: find it interesting. So it investigates the murder of Joss 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: Antonio Lenarrodriguez, a sixteen year old Mexican boy who was 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: shot by a border patrol agent in twenty twelve at 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: the international border between Ambos Nogales, right through the fence 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: that separates Arizona and Sonora. He was on the Mexican side, 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: where he lived. The podcast follows joss Antonio's family in 10 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: their long fight to get justice and how hard it 11 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: is to get border patrol agents to face trial when 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: they use excessive force. Here's episode one of Rediscovering Killed 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: through the Border Fence. 14 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: The streets are mostly desolate. Few lights illuminate the sidewalks. 15 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 2: Cars sporadically. Zoom passed on Caye Internationale, a street that 16 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: runs parallel to the international boundary fence in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico. 17 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: The street is just south of the border from its 18 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: twin city of Nogales, Arizona. Like both of these cities 19 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 2: are very hilly, and they're built into canyons, and so 20 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: in this particular point, this is one of the areas 21 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 2: where the border fence is towering above the Mexican side 22 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: of Nogales. Standing on the sidewalk on the Mexican side, 23 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: the twenty two foot rust colored fence looms above the street. 24 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: It's perched a top a fourteen foot cliff. The street 25 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: lights from the Arizona side peaked through the metal slats 26 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: and the fence, casting long shadows along Caya Internacional. 27 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 3: Definie. 28 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: A man approaches to ask what we're doing. He claims 29 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: to work for the Mexican government, but he doesn't wear 30 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: a uniform or have a badge. Still, he says he's 31 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: patrolling the border. See I can sider the porta la. 32 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 2: There are always eyes watching along the border between Mexico 33 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: and the United States. They could come from fixed cameras 34 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 2: on the U s side, mount to a top eighty 35 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 2: foot tall surveillance towers like the one that's located about 36 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: a football field away. 37 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 3: From where we're standing. 38 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: It could be from the Mexican police or armed soldiers 39 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: riding trucks who drive along Caya International every so often 40 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: to Patrol patrol cars passing by, or it could be 41 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 2: the cartel scouts making sure that no mygrants attempt to 42 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: reach the US without first paying the Quota de plaza, 43 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: a fee anyone is required to pay before crossing the 44 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: border illegally. Standing here in Nogales, it's hard to say 45 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: for sure who that man is. He's certainly not the 46 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: US Border Patrol or a Mexican soldier. What we do 47 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: know is that we're standing in the middle of a 48 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 2: major trafficking corridor where smugglers tried daily to sneak in 49 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: drugs or people into the United States. 50 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 4: Over the years, it has been a cat and mouse 51 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 4: game between law enforcement and drug smugglers. 52 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: It was one of those drugs smuggling incidents nearly ten 53 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: years ago that abended life in these twin border cities 54 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: known collectively. 55 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 3: As Ambos Nogales. 56 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: A US Border Patrol agent fired sixteen shots in the 57 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: span of thirty four seconds. By the end, a teenager 58 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: lay dead on the Mexican side. Welcome to Season three 59 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: of Rediscovering, a podcast from the Arizona Republican asycentral dot Com. 60 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 2: This time, we're focusing on a cross border shooting that 61 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 2: would change the way the US patrols its southern boundary 62 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: with Mexico. It involves a US border agent, a Mexican teenager, 63 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 2: and the firestorm that erupted after he was killed through 64 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: the border fence. I'm Rafael Caranza. I write about border 65 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 2: and immigration issues and have been covering the US Mexico 66 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 2: borderlands for over a decade, and our team has been 67 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 2: putting together this podcast for the. 68 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 3: Past three years. 69 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 2: Over the next four episodes will take a closer look 70 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: at the cross border shooting of jos Antonio Elenar Rodriguez, 71 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 2: a Mexican teenager killed through the border fence, and the 72 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: aftermath of his death ten years later. 73 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 3: The mons lucy. 74 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 5: ILOs Grandamones them. 75 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: It has become a yearly ritual for the family of 76 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 2: juas Antonio. Every year on October tenth, they gather at 77 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: the corner of Gayes International and Inanios in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico, 78 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 2: to mark the anniversary of his death. During this memorial 79 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: back in twenty nineteen, they were joined by dozens of 80 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: people from throughout the Arizona Mexico borderlands. They prayed and 81 00:05:49,200 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: sang songs and called for justice. This was the last 82 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: large celebration the family held before the COVID nineteen pandemic 83 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: at the site where joss Antonio was killed back in 84 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: twenty twelve. Since then, they've scaled down the memorial celebrations, 85 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: but they still gather as a family to mark that date. 86 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: His mother, Arasli Rodriguez says, it's a painful memory, but 87 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: it's still important to her. 88 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 5: You seem pretty significant vill que Auntelasmento. 89 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 2: She said his absence doesn't mean she'll forget him, and 90 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: that he would always be in their hearts and. 91 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 5: Thoughts tengo photos el tengos ROPAs. 92 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 2: She still has his clothes and shoes, and even though 93 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: he's no longer here physically, Araceli said, he is still 94 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 2: present in their lives. Joss Antonio was sick sixteen years 95 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 2: old the night that he died on October tenth, twenty twelve. 96 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: The side of his death along this busy street contains 97 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: several reminders of that tragic night. A white metal cross 98 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: fixed to the sidewalk marks the spot where joss Antonio 99 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: took his last steps. Across the street, a photo of 100 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: him has been etched into a mural that hangs just 101 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: below the International border fence. The mural shows jos Antonio 102 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: as a younger child, looking straight ahead. His face is 103 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: painted in hues of blue over an orange background. Today, 104 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: joss Antonio's name is largely associated with the cross border 105 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: shooting that ended with his untimely death, but for his family, 106 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: he continues to be Donito. They remember him as a 107 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: joyful teenager who loves sweets, chocolate above all. 108 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 6: De champurra il montl Leusta. 109 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: That's joss Antonio's paternal grandmother, daive Elena. She thinks back 110 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: on how he could drink an entire part of Champurado, 111 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: a hot Mexican drink, and eat sweetamales. His younger sister 112 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: and Helica remembers his love of milk with cookies and 113 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: sweetbread No coma coma his aunt Gabriela Lopez. 114 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 7: He loved all the sweets he could eat, but it 115 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 7: was mostly chocolate cake, chocolate Panasito's. 116 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 3: Anything that was chocolate he would love. 117 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: Jos Antonio grew up in the shadow of the US 118 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: Mexico border fence. The home that he lived in is 119 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: located just a few blocks south of the fence separating 120 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: Nogalle Sonora from Nogalas, Arizona. He lived there with his 121 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: other aunt Lurrez, her family, and with his older brother Diego. 122 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: Dave said joss Antonio was very social and full of 123 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: us rations. He was especially close to Diego, the pair 124 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: were only two years apart. They would often play basketball 125 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 2: at a concrete court near their house. Even after Diego 126 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 2: got a job at a convenience store, they'd find ways 127 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: to spend time together. 128 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 3: By that, said Pa. 129 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: Cos Antonio would help his brother close up shop at night, 130 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: and afterwards they treat themselves to a late night snack. 131 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 6: Seveni and camnandoman Yes Subian cos Antonio would eat just 132 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 6: the hot dog and bun because he didn't like any 133 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 6: other toppings. 134 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: That was their nightly routine. Daide lives on the US 135 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: side of Ambos Nogales, where she has been cleaning houses 136 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: for the better part of thirty years. She regularly crossed 137 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: into Mexico to spend time with her family, including jos Antonio. 138 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 2: The father of the two boys, passed away several years earlier. 139 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: Their mother, Arasseli, was working in Navajoa, a city in 140 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 2: southern Sonara, nearly seven hours away from the border town, 141 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: so their family, and Nogales were closest to him. 142 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 3: His aunt Gabriela said, he was very united to the family. 143 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 4: He he was a very good he was he was 144 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 4: my nephew. 145 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 3: What can I say, you know, just like oh you 146 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 3: guys say about your nephews. You guys love them. We 147 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 3: love them. We never saw anything that was, you know, 148 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 3: bad for me. 149 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 8: I mean was. 150 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 3: He was a good boy. He was hard working, he 151 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 3: loved school. 152 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 8: He wanted to be in the army, and all those 153 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 8: dreams were taken away from him one night that he 154 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 8: didn't even know he was going to die. 155 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 3: He had dreams, he had he was ambitious. 156 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: The border fans that Jos Antonio grew up around and 157 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 2: that separates the twin cities of Nogales is key to 158 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: understanding what happened the night that he died. Changing versions 159 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 2: of the fans say a lot about the two cities 160 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 2: relationship to each other as well. Locals on both sides 161 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: of the fans referred to the twin cities as Ambos 162 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 2: Nogales or the two Nogalises. They've always been a meeting 163 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 2: point for Mexican and American cultures, for cross border commerce, 164 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: and for families like by this, straddling both sides of 165 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 2: the international boundary. Both cities were founded in the eighteen 166 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 2: eighties with the construction of the Sonorian Railway, which links 167 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: commerce in northern Mexico to the rest of the United States. 168 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: It's the oldest railroad crossing along the southern border. 169 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 9: So Nogalis has always been unique. 170 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: That's Sigrid matre Gene, a local historian with the Bimdia 171 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: Alta Historical Society Museum. 172 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 9: We are geographically the same. The valley that goes south, 173 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 9: which is why the train is here, is the same 174 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 9: on both sides of the border, and our topography on 175 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 9: both sides of the border is the same. 176 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: Her family has lived in Nambos Nogales for six generations. 177 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: She grew up on the US side and then moved 178 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 2: back in nineteen ninety four after retiring from the US 179 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: Foreign Service. Sigrid explained how the border and the fence 180 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: that divides the twin communities has changed over time. 181 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 9: The first fence was put up by Mexico to protect 182 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 9: against American wrestlers who were taking advantage of upheaval during 183 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 9: the revolution, and so we grew up with the fence. 184 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 9: But the fence I grew up with when I was 185 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 9: here as a child, was a hurricane fence, and hurricane 186 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 9: fences are strong, but they're see through. 187 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 2: Photos of the early period in the history of Ambos 188 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: Nogales showed the chain link fence barely visible as the 189 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 2: demarcation line of the border. It reinforced the notion that 190 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: Ambos Nogales was a single community. Border enforcement was laxed 191 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: for decades as Nogales remained a small, tight knit community, 192 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 2: but then in the nineteen nineties, as unauthorized immigration began 193 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 2: to rise dramatically along the southern border, the US government 194 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 2: began to crack down. In nineteen ninety five, President Bill 195 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: Clinton addressed concerns over illegal immigration during his State of 196 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 2: the Union speech. 197 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 8: That's why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our 198 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 8: borders more by hiring a record number of. 199 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: New border guards in urban areas of the border, like Nogali. 200 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 2: They replace those early fences with steel landing mats left 201 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: over from the Vietnam War. 202 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 9: They are not see through and they are dark. So 203 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 9: it was immediately a very different feeling about the border. 204 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 9: About the fence, you really couldn't see through it any more, 205 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 9: and that was. I don't know about other people, but 206 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 9: for me, it was a peculiar sensation. 207 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: President George W. Bush's administration made additional investments to the 208 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: border fence. 209 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 3: The Secure Fence Act builds on this progress. 210 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 10: The bill authorizes the construction of hundreds of miles of 211 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 10: additional fencing along our southern border. 212 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: By twenty eleven, the solid landing mats gave way to 213 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: the current version of the fence and stricter border controls 214 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: as well. The fence today measures about eighteen feet in height. 215 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 3: It's made of. 216 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: Rust colored steel ba which are tall square beams spaced 217 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: about four inches apart. A solid metal plate crowns the 218 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: top of the fence. Will A. Lupe Ramirez arrived three 219 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: years before the newer fence was installed in Nogales. He 220 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: oversees Arizona's ports of entry for the US Customs and 221 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: Border Protection. He's responsible for processing the flow of legal 222 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: trade and traffic and to keep drugs from coming into 223 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 2: the country. 224 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 8: And it just became big business. So with that, you, 225 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 8: I mean, everybody's out to protect their territory. Border violence 226 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 8: went up, which was years ago. When I first got 227 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 8: here in two thousand and nine, there was a lot 228 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 8: of border violence, and even today you don't hear as 229 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 8: much about it, but there's still a lot of killings 230 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 8: in Mexico and it's still you know, it can be 231 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 8: very dangerous at different times in different locations. 232 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: But amid this backdrop, life has continued to flourish in 233 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 2: the city. The drug violence has done little to stop 234 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 2: the Mexican side from growing rapidly. Immediately passed the rust 235 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: colored fence that snakes through the hills of Ambos Nogales, 236 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 2: colorful houses built into the sides of cliffs and ravines 237 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: sprawl endlessly. Nogalles Sonora is the larger of the two. 238 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: According to Mexico's twenty twenty census, its official population is 239 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: two hundred and sixty five thousand people, but nearly everyone 240 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: believes its actual population is much higher than that, maybe 241 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 2: even pushing half a million. On the other hand, Nogalles 242 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: Arizona is a tenth of that size, at about twenty 243 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 2: thousand residents. For many years, Ramirez, the director of the 244 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 2: border crossings, said business has also been booming. 245 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 8: One of the things that really caused the Nogada Sonoda 246 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 8: to grow was NAFTA, So you have a lot of 247 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 8: makilaas a lot of twin plants. There's also a lot 248 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 8: of fruits and vegetables grown in Sonora and Sinaloa that 249 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 8: entered through through Nogals. So as those industries grew, the 250 00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 8: communities grew. 251 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 2: Nogales has now become the busiest border crossing along Arizona's 252 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 2: three hundred and seventy two mile long border with Mexico. 253 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: The University of Arizona's research shows that more than twenty 254 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: four point six billion dollars in goods passed through here 255 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 2: last year. The prospect of jobs is how Daide Elena 256 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 2: ended up settling here. She moved from Central Mexico and 257 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: set up roots in Nogales three decades ago. She bought 258 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 2: a house located a few blocks south of the international 259 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 2: border fence. But even as Nogalles grew, the neighborhood jos 260 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: Antonio lived in remained very familiar to him. On the 261 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 2: night of October tenth, twenty twelve, taidesaid that jos Antonio 262 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 2: followed the same routine he had built. 263 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 6: Up Ellermano sero temprano Inolia, wiso noliavloporte, le pazilenowengas isefue 264 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 6: Colavia that day. 265 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 2: Diego had closed earlier and didn't tell joss Antonio not 266 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 2: to show up. He then went out with his girlfriend. 267 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 6: Dozeppos jos Antonio is so isosmos jejo aloxo norlan gontro 268 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 6: is sev no solo. 269 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: His family believes that joss Antonio showed up to the 270 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 2: store and didn't find him, so he walked back, taking 271 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 2: the same route he always had. Most of what we 272 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: know about what happened next would be. 273 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: Closely scrutinized in the coming years. 274 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: This account is pieced together from interviews, sworn testimonies, and 275 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: court records. His family said after he didn't find his brother, 276 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: joss Antonio walked back home that night alone on Caya Internationale. 277 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 2: As he walked just past eleven pm, he came across 278 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 2: a smuggling attempt in progress. The incident involved two men 279 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: who attempted to sneak marijuana bundles into the US, but 280 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: no godle Is. Police in Arizona and Border Patrol agents 281 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 2: responded to the scene. While this is where accounts begin 282 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 2: to differ, what is undisputed is this At about eleven 283 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 2: thirty PM on October tenth, twenty twelve, a border patrol 284 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 2: agent pulled. 285 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 3: Out his gun. 286 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 2: He slipped it through a gap in the metal slats 287 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 2: of the fence, and he fired sixteen shots in about 288 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 2: thirty seconds. Some of those bullets hit a concrete wall, 289 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: others hit the ground, and ten of those bullets struck 290 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 2: and killed jos Antonio. Jim Gaye was the attorney for 291 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 2: the border patrol agent. 292 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 11: I'm sure there are still people even now that believe, 293 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 11: you know, the initial government contention that Jose Elina Rodriguez 294 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 11: was simply walking down the street. 295 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: Gaya says that's not true. 296 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: Agent claimed someone was throwing rocks over the fence and 297 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: that he fired in self defense. Jus Antonio's family disputes 298 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: that it was him. 299 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 6: Soonest to Lomre Mitio la Mano al Cerco Porque di 300 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 6: jocalist Kelnino ah Eso Yaji. 301 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 2: Teide said that's an old tale that border agents use 302 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 2: when they kill someone. The shooting happened in less than 303 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 2: a minute, just as quickly word began to spread around Ambos, 304 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 2: Nogales about what happened at the border fence. Cesa Baron, 305 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 2: a host and reporter in Nogales for Zenny radio was 306 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 2: crossing back from. 307 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 3: The Arizona side that night. 308 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 2: That's when he started getting messages about a cross border 309 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: shooting that left one person dead. He headed over and 310 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 2: found the active crime. 311 00:20:52,400 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 12: Scenelia cordonala is policias is tan lo sonos peritoke skumel 312 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 12: forenzi istandresandupo buscando ravesando biandolos. 313 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: Behind the tape were several police and forensic workers. They 314 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 2: were checking the body looking for injuries. 315 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 12: Estatros policias for al cordon buscando testigos is he yaviet 316 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 12: testigos sanat. 317 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: Other officers stood outside the tape searching for witnesses. As 318 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: I said, he remained at the scene for about a 319 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 2: half hour. When he looked up across the border into Arizona, 320 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 2: he saw US authorities were beginning to investigate from where 321 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 2: the agent had fired his gun. 322 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 12: Avia Patrias de la Patria Fronterisa andicoptera andis Arizona. 323 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 2: He could see border patrol vehicles and the helicopter flying overhead. 324 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 2: It would go back and forth over the border. 325 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 12: So officialist the similis conlam man. 326 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: He could also see civilian officers with flashlights in hand. 327 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 2: Details about what was happening on the US side of 328 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 2: the border would stay under wraps for years. Meanwhile, the 329 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 2: Helena family carried on with their knight unaware. When Diego 330 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: arrived home without joss Antonio, suspicions mounted about his whereabouts. 331 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: As I progressed, they became increasingly concerned for him. They 332 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 2: all had heard the gunfire that night, but never imagine 333 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 2: joss Antonio was on the receiving end of it. Diego 334 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 2: and his aunt lurd This talked about the shooting, sharing 335 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: information they had heard. 336 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 10: Oh yes, Mitola s. 337 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 3: El no no no diy thee said. 338 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 2: They exchanged what information they knew. Photos of the crime scene, 339 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: the blood, but no old body. 340 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 6: Ill Gizeka Cinthio Opo. 341 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 2: Viego had a bad feeling, but never imagined that it 342 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 2: was his brother. As and I turned today, jos Antonio 343 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: remained missing. Lore This set out to find him. She 344 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 2: asked her brother Lupe for a ride. When they arrived 345 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: at a street corner, they came across someone selling that 346 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: morning's newspaper. Splashed across the front page, news about the 347 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: previous night's shooting at the. 348 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 6: Border esperamrel Periodico. 349 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: Ajula Lupe told his sister to wait while he bought 350 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: a newspaper to read. 351 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 3: More about the shooting. So he crossed the street and got. 352 00:23:52,640 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 6: One Intosi's pusy okay patras yerenia juraja kittynis Locosias. 353 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: Lures told Daive that as he walked back, he had 354 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 2: already broken down crying. Lures asked if he knew the person, 355 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: and that's when he put up the paper to the 356 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 2: window and said, look, it's too A photo of the 357 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 2: scene showed jos Antonio's body laying face down. When Lurdas 358 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 2: saw the photo, she immediately recognized his clothing. They knew 359 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 2: then to head to the forensic office, where she was 360 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 2: able to identify his remains. They notified his mother, Araceli 361 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 2: and Navajoa, and then they called. 362 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 9: The menus menosis menos. 363 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 10: Gil passa good bassa la casa good bassa mato. 364 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: She said she expected anything but that news. She began 365 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 2: screaming what was happening until her daughter told her that 366 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: they had killed joss Antonio. Adaceli arrived later that day 367 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: with jos Antonio's two sisters and Helka was about seven 368 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 2: years old at the time. She didn't fully grasp what 369 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 2: had happened. Throughout the seven hour drive, she had no 370 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 2: idea that her brother had been killed. Once she arrived 371 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: in Nogales, it became clear. Con All she remembers is 372 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 2: walking in, seeing everyone, and then breaking down. In the 373 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 2: immediate aftermath of the shooting, news spread throughout Ambos Nogales 374 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 2: about Joss Antonio's identity. There were pro tests on the 375 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 2: Mexican side, as residents bristled at the idea of a 376 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 2: US border patrol agent firing into Mexico and killing a 377 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: sixteen year old kid. 378 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 12: Mia Sombron Pocas Basis sevil Castle similar Aquin. 379 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 2: Doctor Luis Contreras Sanchez said he was stunned. His clinics 380 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 2: stood right in front of where the shooting happened. He 381 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 2: heard the shots but stayed inside, only learning later on 382 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 2: what had happened. So had the roles been switched, the 383 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 2: US would have invaded, the doctor said, but since the 384 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: shooting was from the US into Mexico, nothing happened. Neighbors 385 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 2: on both sides of the border fence also heard what 386 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 2: happened that night. As more detail surfaced about the shooting, 387 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: the smuggling incident, and the alleged rock throwing. 388 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 3: They began casting blame on the Arizona side. 389 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 2: Livia Quijada lives right in front of where the agent 390 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 2: fired into Mexico. She said her husband heard the dinging 391 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 2: of the rocks hitting the border fence and the roof. 392 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: She woke up when she heard the gunshots, but they 393 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 2: stayed inside. The following morning they learned what happened. Standing 394 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 2: on the steps of her house, I asked her, what 395 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 2: did you think about what happened? 396 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 3: Fortunao? Okay, where's los Cha Marcos? But I mean where aus? 397 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 2: And she thought it was an unfortunate incident. From her 398 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 2: point of view, the people on the Mexican side were 399 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 2: at fault because they started it all on the Mexican side. 400 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: Cynthia Figueroa had left her mom's house a few minutes 401 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 2: before the shooting. The house is located next to doctor 402 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 2: gone that Da Sanchez's clinic on Internationale, where Jos Antonio 403 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 2: fell to the ground after he was struck by bullets. 404 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 2: Later that night, she began to get phone calls from 405 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: neighbors and her mother about the shooting. Then she went 406 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 2: over the following morning, but everything was rubbed off. 407 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 3: Los polici cari casi pas. 408 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 2: To pass through the blocked off area. Police officers were 409 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 2: checking IDs to make sure people lived or worked there. 410 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: For Cynthia, the shooting did not feel justified, especially given 411 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 2: how jos Antonio died in a spray of bullets coming 412 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 2: from the American side. 413 00:28:51,840 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 7: Justo la maneren como was for casi comlo d is 414 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 7: tuagre is on no siertokaye. 415 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: She doesn't think it's fair how the teen died. They 416 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 2: made it seem like he was hurting the agent, but 417 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 2: she doesn't think that's true. The day after the shooting 418 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: that they called to get advised from an attorney whose 419 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: house she cleaned. That set off the family's quest to 420 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: seek justice for jos Antonio's death, a journey that would 421 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 2: take years, but she was prepared for that quest to 422 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 2: take as long as necessary to help her and her 423 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 2: family find peace. 424 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 6: In super No Inclo. 425 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: Even to this day, Tai Thee hasn't been able to 426 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 2: overcome Jossantonio's death. One reason is having to relive those 427 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 2: painful memories anytime she's asked about them. 428 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 6: In No pienzo serralo asta case teco vencia, they cay 429 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 6: know de Plano houstisia yeah ce pa Josantonio or param 430 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 6: nas victimus es stan pasando por looms. 431 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 2: Mog Taide said she doesn't plan on closing this chapter 432 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 2: of her life until she's convinced there's no other path 433 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,479 Speaker 2: to justice for Joss Antonio or other victims of similar 434 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: cross border shootings. The decision over who was at fault 435 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 2: that night would be decided years later in a courtroom 436 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 2: sixty miles away on the American side, but before then, 437 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: the family would have to learn the identity of the 438 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: Border Patrol agent who killed Jos Antonio. Next time on 439 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 2: Rediscovering and we started looking here, you know, inquiring at 440 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 2: the police station, inquiring at the Border Patrol. 441 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 3: To see what had happened. 442 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 11: The belief in the community, which I know still persists 443 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 11: that agents can fire their weapon kill people and you 444 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 11: know there's no investigation or no repercussions, is just absolutely wrong. 445 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 11: We couldn't find any evidence that any of these people 446 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 11: were disciplined in any way. 447 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: This podcast was edited and produced by Maritza Doomingez and 448 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 2: Amanda Luberto, reporting by myself, Rafael Carranza and Maritza Doomingez. 449 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: Scripts of provision came from news director Kathy Tolomelo. Greg 450 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: Burton is our executive editor. Social media for this podcast 451 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 2: came from Rafael Romero Ree. Web production by Leah Trinidad. 452 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 2: Audio in this episode comes from CNN, the William J. 453 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 2: Clinton Presidential Library, and proft gop on YouTube. Thanks so 454 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 2: much for listening to Rediscovering Killed through the Border Fence, 455 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 2: a podcast from the Arizona Republican ascentral dot com