1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:01,680 Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody. 2 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 2: Chuck here picking out a Saturday episode, a classic Stuff 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 2: you Should Know, curated and handpicked by me to you Valentine, 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: if you will. And this one is from March twenty nineteen, 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 2: and it's about dyslexia. And this one hits close to 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 2: home for me now and I enjoyed going back and 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 2: re listening to it so I could relearn myself. 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: So I hope you do as well. 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: And it's called How Dyslexia Works. 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 3: Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 3: w Chuck Bryan over there, and there's Jerry, And this 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 3: is Stuff you Should Know about dyslexia. How are you 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 3: doing good? Good? 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: How are you? 16 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 3: I'm doing pretty good, man, Just you know, hanging out 17 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 3: over here. Yeah, ready to wrap. 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: I thought this is pretty cool. I'm surprised that we 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: had not. 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: Discussed this yet because it's right up our alley, totally 21 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: very stuff you Should Know type show. Yeah, and I 22 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 2: think it's an interesting uh. 23 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: You know, I guess it's labeled a learning disorder. 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 3: Most most definitely it's a specific learning disorder. According to 25 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 3: the US government. 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 27 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 2: I always just have a hard time, what you know, 28 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: knowing whether or not to like almost at affliction them, like, 29 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 2: is that an affliction? 30 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: I don't even know. 31 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 3: I think it's I think anybody with dyslexia and anybody 32 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 3: any expert in the field would say it's a learning disability. 33 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 3: It's a specific learning disability that that we're not entirely 34 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 3: certain what causes it. But most people would tell you 35 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 3: that typically it's considered a neurobiological condition. They think that 36 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 3: there's a basis to the brain that leads to this 37 00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: situation where otherwise bright and capable yep and intelligent students 38 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 3: have what they call unexpected difficulty learning to read, and 39 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 3: that it afflicts them their entire life. Yeah, but there's 40 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 3: a lot of questions, yes, that surround the definition. And 41 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: one of the problems with dyslexia research is that that's 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 3: that that's not the official definition. There's about as many 43 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 3: definitions as there are studies of dyslexia. 44 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, this one from Yale Center for Dyslexia and Creativity 45 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 2: made sense to me though, as far as just sort 46 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: of a simple way to say it, an unexpected difficulty 47 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: in reading in an individual who has the intelligence to 48 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: be a much better reader. So in other words, like, 49 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 2: this isn't adding up. All the tools are there and 50 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 2: you should be a better reader than you are, but 51 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: you're not. So why what gives? 52 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's there's there's a lot to that though, right, 53 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,119 Speaker 3: Like there's this idea that if if we know enough 54 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 3: about the brain and we have things like MRIs and 55 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: stuff like that, so you would think that by now, 56 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 3: since maybe the nineties or whatever, we would have positively 57 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 3: identified what it is. But there's a confounding problem that 58 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 3: they've run into in dyslexic dyslexia research, and we'll get 59 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 3: into it more later, But they haven't figured out if 60 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 3: what they're looking at is the changes that would come 61 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 3: from not reading as much, or if the brain structure 62 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 3: they're seeing is actually dyslexia. Right, so they're having trouble 63 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 3: with it. I'll explain it better later. 64 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: No, but I know what you mean. 65 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: Well, good as long as you do. But it also 66 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 3: counts as like the million or so people listening to 67 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 3: this also do. 68 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: Hey, everybody dyslexia is very studying it and understanding it 69 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 2: and learning how to teach children with the dyslexia is 70 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: very important because up until semi recently, I'm just going 71 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: to go say recently, if you were had dyslexia and 72 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: you were a student, you might have been called stupid 73 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: or dumb, and you might have been teacher, yeah, you 74 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: might have been put at a separate table and said, well, 75 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: you go over here because we you can't keep up 76 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: this one guy. 77 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: Man, this one really hit home, or not. 78 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 3: Hit home, but hitch in the bread basket. 79 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 2: In the bread basket, which is like home. Pulitzer Prize 80 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 2: winner Philip Schultz was diagnosed later in life, and he said, 81 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 2: growing up in the nineteen fifties, he said, basically he 82 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 2: was placed in what he called the dummy class. Three 83 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 2: children in his class were separated, put at a table 84 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 2: in the corner. The teacher didn't talk to them much. 85 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: And essentially one day like the principal was coming around 86 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: and she said, here these books, pretend to read them. 87 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 3: Right, the principle's coming. 88 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, that is just tough. 89 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: But there's something really significant about that. That was a 90 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 3: column written by a guy named Philip Schultz, who is 91 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: a Pulitzer Prize winner. So that really kind of reveals 92 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 3: the fact that what they figured out through decades and 93 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 3: decades of research is that people with dyslexia aren't stupid. 94 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 3: They specifically have trouble learning to read and spell and write, 95 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 3: and more and more research has kind of gotten to 96 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 3: the root of the problems with dyslexia. But we have 97 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: found that with patients and practice, people with dyslexia can 98 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 3: learn to read. You have dyslexia your entire life. There's 99 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 3: no cure for it, but you can learn to read, 100 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 3: and you can learn to navigate and cope with dyslexia 101 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 3: as a child and into adulthood. 102 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't want to certainly don't want to 103 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: sound like I'm bagging on teachers, because you know, both 104 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 2: of my parents are teachers, and even back in the 105 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: day when you know, let me just say this, teachers 106 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: back then didn't have the same tools that they have today, 107 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: and they didn't have an understanding of dyslexia. So if 108 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: they had students that weren't keeping up and would force 109 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: the class to maybe lag behind, they may not have 110 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: made the best decisions, but they didn't have all the 111 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: tools at their disposal to make better decisions. 112 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 3: Right, the presence of a kid with dyslexia in a 113 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 3: class creates a conundrum. Do you slow the class down 114 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: to that kid's speed and as far as like reading 115 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 3: and spelling and writing lessons go, potentially risking like slowing 116 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: down the rest of the class who are learning at 117 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 3: a normal clip. Or do you take this guy with 118 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 3: dyslexia or this girl with dyslexia and put them in 119 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 3: a special needs class that may address their reading and writing, 120 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 3: but they're going to get so far behind their classmates 121 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: and every other subject that they're normally proficient at. It's 122 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 3: a problem, and they had no idea how to grapple 123 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: with it for almost all of the twentieth century, and 124 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 3: multiple generations of kids with dyslexia suffered as a result. 125 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really sad. There are a lot of symptoms 126 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: for dyslexia, key symptoms, and these are very important because 127 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: there is no blood tests, There is no there's no 128 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: even I mean, there are a lot of testing they 129 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: can do, but that there's no standardized, specific tests that 130 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: will really nail it down. 131 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 3: Right, So so keep that in mind. There's no there's 132 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 3: no official definition of dyslexia. Yeah, and there's no specific 133 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 3: tests to suss out dyslexia, right, two big problems. 134 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you got to look at this collection of symptoms. 135 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: The first obvious one is slow reading and accurate reading, 136 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: difficulty sounding out words, difficulty pronouncing longer words with multiple syllables, 137 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: which we'll. 138 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: Get to that in a bit. 139 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: Inability to read or speak made up nonsense words, which 140 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 2: I thought was interesting, Poor short term memory for verbal information, 141 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 2: whether it's written or spoke spoken. Poor spelling, like really 142 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: poor spelling, to where you sometimes can't even tell what 143 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: the words they're trying to spell are. 144 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 3: Right, not not just like a you know, like using 145 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 3: an F instead of a pH or something like that. 146 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should also point out too, that is 147 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: it's very much an incorrect notion that if you have 148 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: dyslexia you just transpose letters or spell things backwards. 149 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: That's what I thought for most of my life. Yeah, 150 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 3: dyslexia was people they spelled things backwards, and that was that, 151 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: and that they also read backwards, and that they could 152 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 3: train themselves to read things backwards. Right, totally made up, 153 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 3: It's not totally made up, but it's so such a 154 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 3: such a just a one component of dyslexia that it 155 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 3: might as well just be an urban legend. 156 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. 157 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: And then what this can lead to. It's not just like, oh, 158 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 2: I have trouble reading like that. That spills out into 159 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 2: all aspects of life, whether it's your self esteem, or 160 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 2: you might have problem with directions directionally, you might have 161 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 2: issue with your budgets or money items, or you might 162 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 2: not n tell time very well, frustrated, anger, difficulty planning things. 163 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: It's not just limited to reading issues. 164 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: And then in real life, you might read something and 165 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 3: have very little recollection of what you just read. You 166 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 3: will probably have problems giving presentations, finding the right word, 167 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 3: recalling words, that kind of thing. When you do read, 168 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 3: and when you learn to read, you will be reading 169 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 3: slower than anybody else, even reading at your reading level. 170 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 3: You just do it more slowly. And then as an adult, 171 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: a lot of people are like, oh, good god, I'm 172 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 3: done with school. Let me just go off and find 173 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 3: a job that doesn't require any reading or any writing, 174 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 3: and I will be fine. I will go to restaurants 175 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 3: and order the same thing at every restaurant. And if 176 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 3: this routine that I've developed to mask my dyslexia is 177 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 3: ever interrupted, I will flip out and try to keep 178 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 3: it under control, but I will seem a little awkward 179 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 3: socially during instances like this. There's ways you can carve 180 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: out a life for yourself, but you don't have to 181 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 3: because now we understand dyslexia way more than we did before, 182 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 3: and we understand the treatment of it too. 183 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and as far as how many people have it, 184 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: it's tough to get because of all these reasons we're 185 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: talking about. Tough to get a good number that's reliable, 186 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 2: but anywhere between five and fifteen to seventeen percent it 187 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 2: looks like, which is sort of well, it's not the 188 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: biggest range in the world. 189 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 3: But they don't really know, No, they have no idea 190 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 3: because there's a couple of problems. One, there's a lot 191 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,239 Speaker 3: of people out there who don't realize they have dyslexia. 192 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 3: And then there's a lot of people who do know 193 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 3: they have dyslexia in are either ashamed of it or 194 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 3: have just set up their life to where they don't 195 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 3: have time or room to go be diagnosed and then 196 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 3: go learn to overcome it. They're just like, whatever, I 197 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 3: have this thing, this issue where I'm slower at reading 198 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 3: than other people. So yeah, it's probably very much underreported 199 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 3: and underestimated how many people in the population have. 200 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're talking mainly about, almost exclusively, about developmental dyslexia, 201 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 2: which is, you know, the kind we mostly think about. 202 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 2: We're not talking about a choir dyslexia, which is can 203 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: happen as a result. 204 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: Of an injury. So I just want to point that out. 205 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 3: Well, let's take a break and then we'll come back 206 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 3: and talk about the history that actually features both of those. Okay, yes, sir, 207 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: so Chuck. The first time the word dysli was used 208 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 3: was in eighteen seventy two by an ophthalmologist named Rudolph Berlin, 209 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: who coined the term dyslexia. But the case that he 210 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 3: was describing was a case of acquired dyslexia, where you 211 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 3: can you can develop the symptoms of dyslexia trouble reading, 212 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 3: trouble writing, trouble sounding out words from a head injury 213 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 3: or say a lesion on your brain, something like that. Yeah, 214 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 3: and that told them a lot, right it really. Initially 215 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 3: they thought maybe it was just a sign of low intelligence, 216 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: maybe it was a problem with vision or something like that. 217 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 3: But the fact that you could acquire dyslexia told neurologists 218 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 3: and optalmologists working in the nineteenth century. No, this is 219 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 3: a this is a there's a neurobiological basis to this. 220 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they called it early on in the nineteenth century, 221 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 2: and I guess even in the early twentieth century. Well, 222 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 2: actually they called it that up until the sixties. Yeah, 223 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 2: the sixties word blindness. 224 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 3: And it was a German who coined that term, and 225 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 3: they called it vort blindhyped. Can you say that that's good? Okay, 226 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 3: you would do it way better than well. 227 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: I would put on some dumb voice. But that's perfect pronunciation. 228 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 3: Okay. 229 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: You said that it's a W right, yeah, and you 230 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: said it is a V. 231 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, perfect Okay. They didn't click my heels together, and. 232 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: It checks out, Dorothy. 233 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: So they called it, like you said, up into the sixties, 234 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 2: congenital little word blindness. Uh. There were a lot of 235 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: people in the late eighteen hundred or not a lot, 236 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: but a handful of people studying this stuff. 237 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. Henchelwood and Morgan were the two big ones. 238 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, And they were optomologists and a doctor. Henchelwood was 239 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: the optomologist and they and then there were also neurologists. 240 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: A man named Samuel Orton, and uh, they it's interesting 241 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 2: to look back because they were sort of on the 242 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 2: right track with how they what they thought was wrong. 243 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. Word blindness also is a term. Is not that 244 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 3: not that far off? Yeah, I mean it really does 245 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 3: a good job describing the thing, because they're saying, like, 246 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 3: there's some condition that these people have, specifically because they're 247 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 3: otherwise totally intelligent. They're just they have a problem with words, 248 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 3: with seeing words and recognizing them like everybody else can. 249 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was obviously since the dawn of time 250 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: people have had this condition, but it didn't obviously if 251 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: you think about it. There are a lot of things 252 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 2: that came along that really brought it into the forefront, like. 253 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 3: Printing, widespread literacy. 254 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, newspapers and books and street signs exactly, menus like 255 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: you were saying in a restaurant. Yeah, like everywhere there's 256 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: the printed word and all of this. 257 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 3: As all of this started to emerge in like the 258 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 3: second half of the nineteenth century, at least in the 259 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: United States and in the Western Europe, all of a sudden, 260 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 3: people who had dyslexia suddenly became a parent, whereas before 261 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 3: this it wouldn't have been a parent because they're there 262 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 3: was no way for dyslexia to manifest itself. People didn't 263 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 3: walk around reading. You weren't expected to learn to read 264 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 3: and write as a kid. You had to be like 265 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 3: basically a monk to learn to read and write, or 266 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: part of the aristocracy. Now it became democratized and public 267 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 3: schooling became widespread, and so as a result, dyslexia became 268 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 3: a thing for the very first time. It's actually a 269 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 3: relatively new condition that was born out of the modern era. 270 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, Or if you were a kid back then and 271 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: they were trying to teach you read and you couldn't, 272 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: you were just they were like, all right, well, I 273 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 2: guess he's not a reader, right, So get out to 274 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: the factory of the field, right, and don't worry about it. 275 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 3: But that was what Morgan, like w Pringle Morgan and 276 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 3: James Hinchelwood were doing, was they were the first ones 277 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 3: to say, wait, wait, get that kid out of the field, 278 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 3: because he seems otherwise bright to me. He just is 279 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 3: having trouble reading. This might just be a thing. So 280 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 3: they were the first ones to say, no, this is 281 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 3: its own thing. This isn't just being being generally slow. 282 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 3: Specific learning disability. 283 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 2: Right, Samuel Orton, the neurologists I mentioned, he created the 284 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: Orton Society in nineteen forty nine. They were researchers and 285 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 2: teachers trying to figure out like, all right, we know 286 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 2: this is a problem. Now how do we go about 287 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: teaching kids like this? And that eventually led to the 288 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 2: International Dyslexia Association, But it really took until the the 289 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies. That was a book written by McDonald Critchley 290 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: called The Dyslexic Child, And that's when things really started 291 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: to come to the forefront more. 292 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, they started to realize, oh, wait, you can teach 293 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 3: kids with dyslexia how to read, so maybe we should 294 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 3: start doing that, right, And here are these symptoms and 295 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: the signs of dyslexia, and let's take it seriously in 296 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 3: the general education system. 297 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 298 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: And one of the interesting things that they learned, they 299 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 2: have learned over the years is part of the problem, 300 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: at least in the case of English, is that it's 301 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: a really tough language to learn, extraordinarily tough, and it 302 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: matters if you have dyslexia. When compared to Italian. It 303 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 2: says English has over a thousand ways to spell it's 304 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: basic set of forty phonological sounds. Italian has twenty five 305 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 2: speech sounds speech sounds and only thirty three ways to 306 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 2: spell them. So incidences of dyslexia, while they may be 307 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: the same technically in Italy, kids don't have as much 308 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: of a problem in Italy. 309 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, like thinking about this, so that the sure e 310 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 3: sound eh eh, you can spell it ai as in 311 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 3: staid EO is in leopard, You is in barry, Ie 312 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 3: is in friend. 313 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: Okay, English is so tough. 314 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 3: It is tough. But what you're doing is when you're 315 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: spelling those things, you're encoding a sound. A phoneeme is 316 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 3: what it's called. Right, And like you said, in English, 317 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 3: we have forty phonemes, and when you spell, when you read, 318 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 3: you're encoding and coding a phoneme. And we've attached phonemes 319 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 3: onto specific things out in real life. Leopard, Right, if 320 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 3: you can spell leopard, you can write down that word 321 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 3: and you can create a leopard in somebody else's mind's 322 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 3: eye by reading it. Okay, this is all spectacular that 323 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 3: we can do this, but it's a totally human construct. 324 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 3: If you have dyslexia, you're the ground problem that is 325 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 3: the basis of your condition is you have trouble sorting 326 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 3: through phonemes. You have trouble with what's called phonological awareness, 327 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 3: where you hear impart as two separate distinct sounds that 328 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 3: you can learn to spell and learn to write. You 329 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 3: can't sort them. Sometimes they run together. It's a problem 330 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 3: on the very basis of reading, writing, spelling the phonology. 331 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: You have trouble. Your brain has trouble processing it and sorting. 332 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 3: That's the basis of dyslexia. So if you are a 333 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 3: kid with dyslexia, in learning English with as difficult as 334 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 3: it is where there's all these different rules for the 335 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: same phoneme, it's going to be way harder than it 336 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 3: is in something like Italian. 337 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: Like you were saying, yeah, And as a result, as 338 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 2: you would imagine, learning a second language if you have 339 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 2: dyslexia is really tough. But they have found that Italian 340 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 2: can almost be like a therapy. 341 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 3: A training like training camp for learn really interesting. Yeah, 342 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 3: because you learn, Oh there's rules with certain things, but 343 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 3: these are really basic rules and they make sense. So 344 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 3: maybe now I can learn English a little more easily 345 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 3: with the expectation that the rules are structurally the same, 346 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 3: but they're just different for English than they are for 347 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 3: Italian in nuance, but ultimately they're getting across the same stuff. 348 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole concept of language and symbols, e letters 349 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 2: and words, it's. 350 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: Just fascinating to me, endlessly fascinating. 351 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, because again I don't like the humans. 352 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 2: Like creating this and saying that thing over there. If 353 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: you draw these symbols in this order, that's what that is. 354 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: See that leopard like, that's and then the word leopard like. Yeah, 355 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 2: it's just all fascinating. 356 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 3: It is because you're encapsulating knowledge that can be shared 357 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 3: later on, can be unlocked later on by anyone who 358 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 3: understands how to decode it in the same way. 359 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the science? What was it called? When you 360 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: study that? 361 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 3: Linguistics? 362 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: Is it just linguistic? 363 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I could have. 364 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: Been a linguist. Oh yeah, if I had only known 365 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: what it was called. 366 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just realize how anything that would have dumb 367 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 2: dumb what's that thing called? 368 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I could have been good at that. 369 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I couldn't. It was on the tip of 370 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 3: my tongue. 371 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 2: So I guess we can talk about the the fMRI 372 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: and the MRI. Obviously, the Wonder Machine figures in pretty 373 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 2: big when it comes to this kind of thing. 374 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 3: Yea. 375 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: And in the mid nineties is about when the fMRI 376 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 2: came on the scene with dyslexia and studies with dyslexia. 377 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 2: Once they one of the problems was little kids. You're like, well, 378 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 2: we can't throw them in there, that they will explode 379 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 2: their brain. And then they're like, oh no, the fMRI 380 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 2: machine is fine for kids. 381 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 3: We tested it out on some bad kids and. 382 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: They were fine, and so they started putting children in 383 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: there because you could obviously do this at any age, 384 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: but it's important for school age children to like figure 385 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: out what's going on in their brains. 386 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 3: Well, that's one of the reasons why that's the sample 387 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 3: population is because it takes years for dyslexia to be prominent. Right, 388 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 3: every kid has problems learning, reading and writing at first, sure, 389 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 3: but then as other kids progress and this one kid doesn't, 390 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 3: but they're otherwise bright, same socioeconomic opportunities and all that stuff. 391 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,959 Speaker 3: That's when it becomes possible that they have dyslexia. But 392 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 3: by that time a couple more years have gone by, 393 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 3: right right, Yeah, so you're you're not testing for dyslexia 394 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 3: on babies, right, you have to wait until it basically 395 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 3: manifests itself. 396 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 397 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,959 Speaker 2: And of course with the fMRI they I think there 398 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 2: was some hope that it could, like you mentioned earlier, 399 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 2: just be like, well there it is, yeah, but. 400 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: You know it wasn't. 401 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 2: It wasn't as they you know, different regions of the 402 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: brain would light up or not light up. But they 403 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: didn't get any hard like pinpointing conclusions. 404 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 3: No, they have kind of focused in on a few spots, 405 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 3: like different studies have said, this is what we found, 406 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: and it actually correlates with other studies too. There's left 407 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 3: hemisphere areas, the ventral occipito temporal region, the temporal parietal region, 408 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 3: and the inferior frontal cortices, which have to do with 409 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 3: language processing. Yeah, but also visual processing of language too. 410 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. 411 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 3: So again they think that the basis of all of 412 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 3: this is that when you were hearing sounds and somebody's 413 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 3: holding up a piece of bread that has been dried 414 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 3: through heat and says toast, you're hearing toast. Yeah, and 415 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 3: you can learn to write t A. It's a little confounding, sure, 416 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 3: and then st over time, maybe the first few times 417 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 3: you write te ST, it doesn't matter. You're going to 418 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 3: learn to write T A S T and you can 419 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 3: write it down and then someone else can read it 420 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 3: and they think of toast. Right, with dyslexia, you're not 421 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 3: hearing toast. You're you're you, and you certainly can't extrapolate 422 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 3: something that you're not hearing correctly into words and letters. Yeah, yeah, okay, 423 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 3: it's a. 424 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 2: Good way to put it, the Toast analogy. There you go, U, 425 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: there is a genetic component. You are likely, if you 426 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 2: have dyslexi to also have other family members who have it, 427 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: and they have isolated some genes associated with it. But 428 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 2: again they haven't been like here's the cause. Let's just 429 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 2: figure out how to switch this gene off or. 430 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 3: On right, And it's I think it's just correlated. It's 431 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 3: not necessarily the cause. It's it's like people who have 432 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: been shown to have dyslexia have these set of genes 433 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 3: that are doing this. 434 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 435 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: But what, like I said earlier, what's interesting is those 436 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 2: early doctors weren't super far off. It does have to 437 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 2: do with visual processing of this linguistic information, and they 438 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 2: were on the right track even way back then. 439 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: So not bad. 440 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 3: And then even still though with this new understanding of like, Okay, 441 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 3: this brain region looks like this, this brain region looks 442 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 3: like that, this is the sign of a dyslexic brain, 443 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 3: there's still the question is this the result of going 444 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 3: years and years without reading or is that the structure 445 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 3: of a brain with dyslexia? Right, because we know that 446 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 3: your brain changes when you read, when you learn to read. 447 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 3: They've done studies in the MRI with illiterate adults who 448 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 3: have learn to read. So they do a scan of 449 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 3: them while they cannot read, and then they scan them 450 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 3: again while they can read, and then look for differences 451 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 3: in the brain. And there are structural differences that take 452 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 3: place in the brain, which makes sense because it makes 453 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 3: you think, So an illiterate adult is that the normal 454 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 3: structure of the brain, and an adult that can read 455 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 3: is that an abnormal structure? Because think about it, we've 456 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 3: only been doing that for one hundred and fifty years. 457 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 3: That's a new construct. So it makes sense that the 458 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 3: brain would be neuroplastic like that in that respect, because 459 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 3: that's a new thing we've all started to try to 460 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 3: do to alter our brains. 461 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's where the practice part comes in which 462 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: we'll get to more. But it's interesting that and it 463 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 2: sounds simple, but the better if you have dyslexia, the 464 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 2: better you get at reading and writing, the better you 465 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 2: will get at reading and writing exactly. 466 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 3: You're just you're strengthening, You're creating new neural connections and 467 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 3: strengthening those pathways. And the fact that it all comes 468 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 3: down to apparent patience and practice and that like it's 469 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 3: saying like these kids with dyslexi are going through the 470 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 3: same thing that every kid does with learning to read 471 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 3: and write and spell, it just takes them way longer. 472 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 473 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 3: The fact that generations of kids with this lexi were 474 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 3: just abandoned by the school system because of a lack 475 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 3: of patience is really what it comes down to. Is 476 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 3: beyond sad. 477 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, patients and resources, I think, and that's part of it. Sure, Yeah, 478 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 2: I just don't want to it sound like we're saying 479 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 2: like teachers just were impatient about it, all right, It's 480 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 2: like it was complex and still very sad. 481 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 3: Yes, that teachers have to buy their own school supply 482 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 3: still gets to me every year. Yeah, the fact that 483 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 3: we're like living with this as a country, Like that's 484 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 3: just become normal to us. Is it's embarrassing. Yeah, it's 485 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 3: just a mark of shame on our country. 486 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: If you ask me, all right, let's take a break. 487 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 3: No, I'm gonna go. 488 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 2: I'm going to give you your out of nine tails 489 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 2: so we can flog each other. 490 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 3: I realize I'm I sound really forceful in this episode. 491 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 3: Do I feel like I'm sounding forceful? Do I sound forceful? 492 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 3: Think you're great? 493 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: Do I? Well? That did? 494 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: All right, we'll be right back everyone. All right, So, 495 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 2: like you said earlier, there is no cure for dyslexia. 496 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 2: There is a treatment, and they even put that in quotes, 497 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 2: but you shouldn't think of it as a disease cure 498 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 2: type of thing. 499 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: It's practice and patience. 500 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 3: You have it for life. 501 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and those are the two strategies that we will 502 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 2: say it one more time for the tenth time patients. 503 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 2: In practice, you have to have that patience there as 504 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: a parent, as a teacher, as someone with dyslexia. I 505 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 2: know it's frustrating, but the more patient you are give 506 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 2: yourself time, teachers can. And then there are programs now 507 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 2: where students can get extra time to take tests and 508 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 2: things like that. And oh yeah, I think even officially, 509 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: like with the SAT and stuff like that. Oh yeah, 510 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: there are programs where you are not to put it 511 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 2: a disadvantage. 512 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 3: There's the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act of two 513 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 3: thousand and four, the IDEA Act or IDEA. It specifies 514 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 3: dyslexia as a specific learning disorder. And when you have 515 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 3: a diagnosis of dyslexia, the whole world opens up to you. 516 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 3: You all of a sudden have your own personal teachers 517 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 3: assistant working with you. Hopefully, you have all sorts of 518 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 3: resources that just weren't available to you before that are 519 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 3: being funneled directly toward helping you learn to read faster. 520 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 521 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: I wonder if that's across the board. 522 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that schools probably have specific funding for 523 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 3: IDEA stuff. I mean, like when Congress comes up with 524 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 3: an act like that, they fund it, and then they 525 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 3: fund it out of it, like those huge omnibus budgets 526 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 3: have funding for that, and that goes to the school 527 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 3: and school's supposedly not allowed to spend it on anything 528 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 3: but that stuff. So yeah, probably if you get a 529 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 3: diagnosis of dyslexia, it's pretty sweet and a huge relief 530 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 3: because all of a sudden, it's just like a brand 531 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 3: new world. You're taken away from the dumb kid's table 532 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 3: like Howard Schultz was, and all of a sudden, you 533 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 3: have your own one on one reading and spelling lessons 534 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 3: that you just didn't have before. 535 00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 536 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: The other, like said, is practice, and over time, you 537 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: know you can learn to read and you make those 538 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 2: new neural pathways, and it just it's heartening to know 539 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 2: that if you have this patience and you put in 540 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 2: the time, it is something that can be overcome if 541 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 2: everyone works together. 542 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 3: Right, And if you can learn to read, even as 543 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 3: an adult. You're not going to learn to read necessarily proficiently. 544 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 3: I think you can if you really really practice, if 545 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 3: you put your mind to it. It's going to be 546 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 3: very slow, but it's not like you'll never read a 547 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 3: book or something like that. 548 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 549 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 3: But I saw one woman describing her condition as an adult, 550 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 3: and she said she was very proud to be at 551 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 3: like a seventh grade reading level now as an adult, 552 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 3: which is like, you can navigate through life with a 553 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 3: seventh grade at a seventh grade reading level pretty easy. 554 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 3: The problem comes when you don't ever you've never gotten 555 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 3: any help, and you're basically an illiterate adult because of dyslexia. 556 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, they have technology can help out. There are what 557 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 2: they call assist of listening devices because sometimes if you 558 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 2: have someone your ear reading something out loud while you're 559 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: reading along, sort of like a teacher, and an app 560 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 2: like that one on one experience, that can really really help. 561 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: Seeing a transcription sometimes of what someone's saying. 562 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 3: A real time transcription. 563 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so all these apps and devices are really 564 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 2: helping things along. 565 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 3: This so's it's like a brand new world for kids 566 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 3: with dyslexia compared to like last century. Oh yeah, or 567 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 3: even a few decades ago, you know. 568 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 569 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 2: The one thing I didn't quite get was this thing 570 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 2: that you sent from Sir Jim Rose. I didn't fully 571 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 2: get what this guy was saying. 572 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 3: He was part of it. So he's not saying this, 573 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 3: he's he's he's definitely all into dyslexia. But there is 574 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 3: a thread that of experts in childhood education, psychology, childhood 575 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 3: cognition who who suspect that there's no such thing as dyslexia, 576 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 3: really that those earliest neurologists and ophthalmologists and doctors who 577 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: who named it and made it a thing were wrong, 578 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 3: and that really an inability to read transcends any level 579 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 3: of intelligence. It's disconnected from intelligence. That no matter whether 580 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 3: you are of high intelligence or low intelligence, you can 581 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 3: suffer from an inability to learn to read. And so 582 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 3: if you have dyslexia and you are of high intelligence, 583 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 3: the kid next to you who has low intelligence and 584 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 3: can't read also has dyslexia or or else. No one 585 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 3: has dyslexia, and it's just an inability to learn to read. 586 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 3: Most experts say dyslexia is a thing, sure, which means 587 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 3: then the debate is, okay, doesn't have anything to do 588 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 3: with intelligence. And if it doesn't have anything to do 589 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 3: with intelligence, then all of these resources that are being 590 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 3: diverted to these kids who are of high intelligence but 591 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 3: are having trouble learning to read is really doing a 592 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 3: disservice to the kids of low intelligence. And I'm making 593 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 3: air quotes here. Everybody who are having trouble learning to read? 594 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 3: Why differentiate they're both having trouble learning to read. Start 595 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 3: attacking the problem with both of them. And there was 596 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 3: this one Australian expert who basically said, like, yes, dyslexia 597 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 3: is the thing. It is his own thing. It has 598 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 3: a neurobiological basis. It's not made up. It's not a myth. 599 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 3: But let's treat first and then diagnose later. If you 600 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 3: see an inability to learn to read, go after that. 601 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 3: Don't say, well, is a dyslexia. Let's test the kids 602 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 3: intelligence it doesn't matter, and focus on learning. How I'm 603 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 3: teaching them how to read interesting and apparently interventions. There's 604 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 3: this guy named Julian, Professor Julian. 605 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: What's his name, Chuck Lenin. 606 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 3: Sands, Yes, Julian Sands In boxing Helena, and he makes 607 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 3: it's a big soliloquy about whether or not dyslexi is 608 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 3: a myth. I can't remember the guy's last name, but 609 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 3: I get the impression that parents of children with dyslexi 610 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 3: are not a big fan of this guy. But he's 611 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 3: basically said, we're diverting a lot of funding away from 612 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 3: kids who know how to who don't know how to read, 613 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 3: just because they don't they supposedly don't have a high IQ. 614 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 3: Let's treat all the kids. So that's the idea of 615 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 3: whether it's a myth, not that dyslexi doesn't exist, although 616 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,479 Speaker 3: I think some people suspected it didn't for a while 617 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,439 Speaker 3: now people believe it does, but not necessarily that it's 618 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 3: just intelligent upper middle class kids who have dyslexia. It's 619 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 3: just an inability to read for the same reason. Interesting, 620 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 3: that's the basis of it. It's still up in the air, 621 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 3: and it's a really touchy subject, very touchy subject, sure, 622 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 3: and rightfully so. I mean, like, I can imagine you 623 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 3: feel lost in the woods if there's no official diagnosis, 624 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 3: there's no official test of it, there's no official definition 625 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 3: of it. Your kid has it, and you know your 626 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 3: kid has it. Yeah, I can't imagine what it must 627 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 3: feel like to have some expert going like there's no 628 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 3: such thing as dyslexia, right, you know, yeah, yeah, thanks 629 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 3: a lot. It is very touchy and rightfully so. 630 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: Well. 631 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 2: Finally, there's this whole notion that if you have dyslexia, 632 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: then you may excel in other areas. You may be 633 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 2: more creative, or you may be more prone to be 634 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 2: like an entrepreneur, perhaps. 635 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, because you think outside of the box. 636 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a long list of people, like, 637 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: you know, famous creative types that have dyslexia. 638 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 3: IGETHA. Christie, did you know that one? 639 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: I didn't but I didn't either that. 640 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 3: You know, I didn't just make it up. I learned there's. 641 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 2: A long list. But just recently part of this bugs 642 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 2: me though, I don't know. I just hate it when 643 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 2: they're like, well, look what celebrities have this thing. I mean, 644 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 2: I get it. Maybe that it might, I don't know. 645 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 2: I just don't see the value in that. 646 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 3: Well, it's saying like, look at this guy, this guy, 647 00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 3: this lady. 648 00:35:58,719 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: Maybe I guess so. 649 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,959 Speaker 3: He's not a street sweeper. You don't have to spend, 650 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 3: you don't have to look forward to a life of 651 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 3: shoveling horse maneuver because you have dyslexia. You can achieve 652 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 3: just stick to a kid. 653 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: No, I get all that, and that's valid. 654 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 3: Are you're questioning the cult of celebrity? 655 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was. 656 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,240 Speaker 2: That just sort of bugs me, But no, there is benefits. 657 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 2: I'm sure if some kid is like Tom Cruise has dyslexia, 658 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 2: right and look at him. 659 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 3: I have had some questions about xanax and its value myself. 660 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: Oh goodness. 661 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 2: There have been some studies though over the years that 662 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 2: may or may not support this, Like supposedly, if you 663 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 2: have dyslexia, you may be quicker to find something in 664 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 2: your peripheral vision. Maybe you can like mc esher style 665 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 2: drawings or the impossible images hidden images, you might see 666 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 2: those quicker or more easily find patterns in noise. Sure, 667 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 2: like you could be a great data analysts perhaps. 668 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 3: And they think like and this makes total sense. But 669 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 3: the problem is it's anecdotal at this point. But it 670 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 3: makes total sense that, yes, you're the same senses that 671 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 3: you were using to read and write. If you don't 672 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 3: know how to read and write, your brain's going to 673 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 3: compensate with other things. It's going to possibly excel at 674 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 3: other stuff just because it's structured different If your brain 675 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 3: is structured differently, which we know that's the case, if 676 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 3: you do not read or write, you would expect that 677 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 3: it would manifest itself in real world behaviors and traits. 678 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and the first thing I thought it was like, yeah, totally, 679 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 2: like if your vision impaired you hear things better. 680 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 3: Well, supposedly that's a myth. 681 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: Well I looked it up. 682 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 2: There are studies where if you are vision impaired, you 683 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 2: are better at pinpointing like location of sound and certain sounds. 684 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 3: But it's not as you can't hear something two miles away. 685 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not as cut and dry as you can't 686 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 2: he better, Yeah, because like your ears developed better. 687 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 3: You know, if you remember that guy who can echo locate, 688 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 3: he's visually impaired and he's like, no, he uses clicks 689 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,280 Speaker 3: or something like that, like a he basically taught himself 690 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 3: to echo locate. Really amazing. 691 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: The first thing I thought about was the guy with 692 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: the ear in his arm? What was his name? 693 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 3: Stellarc? Stell what's great? 694 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: Oh man? 695 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 3: I love that you and I like go back and 696 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 3: forth on remembering the guy's name. Last time we bought 697 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 3: most of it, I didn't remember his name, and you 698 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 3: rattled it right at Stellark Between us, Stellarc is going 699 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 3: to live forever like the transhumanist to you. 700 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 2: But then that last thing about being entrepreneurial or maybe 701 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 2: a corporate executive. They did do a study in two 702 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 2: thousand and nine that found there was an anecdotal evidence 703 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 2: of over representation in those fields. But then that's the 704 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 2: thing too, where they're like, maybe they were just better 705 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 2: at overcoming adversity, right, and that stayed on through their 706 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 2: whole life to where it wasn't just dyslexia but like 707 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 2: and nothing would keep them down. 708 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 3: So they excelled, right, they learned how to how to 709 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 3: try harder than their peers. 710 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 711 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 3: So yeah, even if that is the case, great, Sure, 712 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 3: But the point is it's still anecdotals, so you have 713 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 3: to be careful with saying like, oh, yeah, people with 714 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 3: dyslexia are way better at this, right, or they're they're 715 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 3: more likely to be entrepreneurs. It's just it hasn't been settled. Yeah, 716 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 3: But I think the overall point of this episode is 717 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 3: if you are if you do have dyslexia, there is 718 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 3: plenty of hope. Do not give up hope, whether that 719 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 3: your kid has dyslexia or you have dyslexia, you can 720 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 3: learn to read and write and spell, and you can 721 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 3: become a Pulitzer Prize winning. 722 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: Columnist or Agatha Christie yep. 723 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 3: Or John Irving. I saw his yslexia, John Oiving. Yeah, 724 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 3: Richard Branson, that was really good. 725 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 1: Ozzy Osbourne, for God's sake, look at that guy. Sure, 726 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: if I'm going around the house. 727 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 3: He's successful. Yeah, despite himself. If you want to know 728 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 3: more about dyslexia, you can learn all about it on 729 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 3: the internets. And since I said that it's time for 730 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 3: listener mail. 731 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to call this Sid and Marty Kroft email. 732 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 2: This guy wrote in to email us about a personal 733 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 2: connection he had to the Schoolhouse Rock episode. I'm not 734 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 2: gonna read that half of the letter because I don't 735 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 2: want to further embarrass the family, but he's his relation 736 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 2: to the person that we kind of called out as 737 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 2: the guy who ruined Schoolhouse Rock. 738 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 3: Oh okay, wasn't he an exec? 739 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: Yeah? 740 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. 741 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 2: But the second half of this, as speaking of unbelievable stories, guys, 742 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 2: I thought it. You'd be jealous to know that I 743 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 2: grew up hanging out on the sets of all the 744 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 2: Sidden Marty Croft shows because my mom was on a 745 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 2: bunch of them. He used to have lunch with the 746 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 2: slee stacks and throw around big foam boulders from Land 747 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,240 Speaker 2: to the Loss. She was Nashville on the Captain Cool 748 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 2: and the Kong Show, which wrapped around the Saturday morning cartoons. 749 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: I remember that, mm hm. 750 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 2: They also that also led to the music group the 751 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,879 Speaker 2: Bay City Rollers showing up to my birthday party when 752 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 2: I was like five. It caused such a big mom 753 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 2: scene the police had to come. 754 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 3: That's the SA yeah, you are d a. Why you 755 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 3: know how they got their name They threw a dart 756 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 3: at a map and it landed on Bay City, Michigan. 757 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: Because they're like Scottish, aren't they. 758 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 3: I think so they are. 759 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: I remember my sister. 760 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 2: We had a babysitter, and then my sister and the babysitter. 761 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,760 Speaker 2: I don't know why my sister wasn't just my babysitter. 762 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 2: She was six years older. There was another girl who 763 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 2: babysat that was like a sister's age, and they would 764 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 2: sit around. This is my big memory of the Bay 765 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 2: City Rollers. They would there was one of their albums 766 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 2: that had each of their pictures sort of in a 767 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 2: dartboard like fashion in a circle, and they would spin 768 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 2: the record around and close their eyes and stop it 769 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:36,359 Speaker 2: with their finger, and. 770 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 3: Like they had to make out with that picture. 771 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, they had to like kiss that picture or whatever. 772 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 3: I hope your sister doesn't listen to this. 773 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: No, it's great. The seventies man, so innocent. 774 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 3: I love the seventies. 775 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 2: So the Bay City Rollers came through his birthday party. 776 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 2: They called the cops. 777 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 1: She went on. 778 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 2: My mom went on to do a ton of cool 779 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 2: stuff that I'm sure you guys would know a bunch 780 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 2: of episodes of Plastic Man, Wow, all the women voices 781 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 2: on Celebrity Deathmatch, Cool, hosting a game show called Rodeo Drive, 782 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 2: playing Joan Rivers on Family Guy Wow, being in the 783 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 2: Catskills on Broadway nice for two years. Too much more 784 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 2: to mention, guys, except also she went on the road 785 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 2: with Tim Conway and Harvey Korman for a number of 786 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 2: years posing is Carol Burnette, and my little brother ended 787 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 2: up engaged to Harvey Corman's daughter, Wow, but it didn't 788 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 2: work out. 789 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 3: Wow. 790 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 2: Anyway, I love the show, guys. If I can ever 791 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 2: be a resource, let me know. That is from Keith 792 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 2: or Ell Keith. 793 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 3: That was amazing. You remember Celebrity Deathmatch? 794 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, man, so great. Big shout out to your mom too. 795 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and to see your mom's Keith. Yeah. Well, if 796 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,319 Speaker 3: you want to brag on your mom because she's done 797 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 3: some awesome stuff, we love hearing about that. Moms always 798 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 3: have great welcomeness here and stuff. You should know. That's right, 799 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 3: that's gonna end up being a crummy T shirt. If 800 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 3: you want to get in touch of this, you can 801 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 3: hang out on stuff youshould know dot com. And check 802 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 3: out our social links there, and you can get in 803 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 3: touch with me, Chuck and Jerry and everybody else here 804 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 3: at Stuff Should Know by sending an email to Stuff 805 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 3: podcast at HowStuffWorks dot com. 806 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 807 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,879 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 808 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,840 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.