1 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Hi you guys. Welcome back to Killer Thriller Docu edition. 2 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jennifer Fessler, and today we are talking 3 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: about an episode that carries an incredible amount of weight 4 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: and heartbreak and importance. Today we are talking about the 5 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: Netflix documentary American Murder Gabby Potito. We are joined by 6 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: Nicole Schmidt, the mother of Gabby Patito, whose story captured 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 1: the attention of millions, including myself, around the world in 8 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Gabby was a twenty two year old 9 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: travel vlogger documenting a cross county road trip with her fiance, 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: Brian Laundry, when she suddenly disappeared, and what became a 11 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: missing person's case quickly also became one of the most 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: widely followed true crime stories in recent history. After nationwide 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: searching and NonStop media coverage, Gabby's body was discovered in Wyoming. 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Investigators determined she had been the victim of a homicide. 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: Since Gabby's death, Nicole has become an advocate for domestic 16 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: violence awareness and victim support through the Gabby Potito Foundation, 17 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: working to help other families recognize warning signs and find 18 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: resources before tragedy strikes. So this one hits a little 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: differently from me because I just remember hearing about it 20 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: so vividly. It doesn't seem like it was long ago 21 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: that it happened. And this documentary, this is a tough 22 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: one to watch. And I am very grateful to have 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Nicole join us today. Hey, Nikole, Hi, who are you? 24 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: I'm really really grateful that you are joining us. And 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 1: I have to tell you, watching the documentary and I've 26 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: known the story, it doesn't feel like a long ago. 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: Maybe it does to you, for me that it actually happened. 28 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: And I remember seeing Gabby's beautiful face everywhere, but I 29 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: wasn't in touch with just her whole. I don't know 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: essence is that the word? Until watching the documentary and 31 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: already I'm going to get choked up. But your daughter 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: was sunshine. She just was sunshine. I mean, I don't 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: even know. That's what struck me. Maybe you know, as 34 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: a viewer of it, it's just as a different experience 35 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: when you're seeing it on the news and I remember 36 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 1: hearing her voice. But watching this documentary, watching you guys, 37 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: and I think you look so much. She looks so 38 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: much like you, And I'm so very sorry for your loss. 39 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: There aren't enough words to tell you how sorry that 40 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: I am, and I'm I'm sure you hear that every day, 41 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: but anyway, not really anyway, but thank you for joining us. 42 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: I can't imagine this kind of thing is easy for 43 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: you to do. Have you been doing a lot of podcasts? 44 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 2: I do a few here and there. It's not easy 45 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: to talk about, but we actually travel around and speak 46 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: on what happened to Gabby to share her story so 47 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: others can learn from what happened and hopefully prevent it 48 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: from happening to others. So yesterday, for example, I was 49 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: just doing a session on strangulation Crimes against Women conference 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: in Dallas. So these are things that we need to 51 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: learn and I do feel that it's making a difference. 52 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: And I love that you called her sunshine because that 53 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: is exactly what she was. She was a ray of 54 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 2: light in our lives and we miss her so very much. 55 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: It just struck me. It's like she just seemed like 56 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: that girl who this her smile, like just her voice, 57 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: the intonations, the sweetness, she'd just like just she just 58 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: radiated warmth, you know, and which is of course, in 59 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: part a huge credit to her mother. So she just 60 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: seemed like a really like a just a really happy, 61 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: kind young woman and creative and all these other things. 62 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, Gabby was she was tenacious. She wasn't just a sweet, 63 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: little innocent flower. She had she had a great attitude 64 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: because if she saw someone being mean to someone else, 65 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: she would actually stick up for that person. 66 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: She was totally. 67 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: Fearless and she would fight for what was right. So 68 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: she had kind of both sides. She was sweet and gentle, 69 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: but she was also tough, and I think that just 70 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: made her really special. 71 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, So watching the documentary, how do you feel about it? 72 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: How'd you feel about how it portrayed the events and 73 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: Gabby and I guess and Brian, and how did you 74 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: feel after watching it? 75 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 2: It's really hard to watch. It was really hard to film. 76 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: It was difficult to do long interviews and send them 77 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 2: all the photos and videos. I mean we were basically 78 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 2: crying throughout the whole process. But once it was done, 79 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: we feel like it did its job. It has an 80 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: educational piece behind it, and it gets young women watching 81 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: it with their parents and asking questions and starts the 82 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: conversation about domestic violence. And I really think that in 83 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: that way it's been used for good and so we're 84 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 2: really proud of it, and I'm glad we did it, 85 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: and I'm glad we got to tell her story. 86 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I have a twenty three to soon 87 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: to be twenty four year old daughter, and it was unfortunately, 88 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: I guess, but very eye opening to me thinking in 89 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: terms of like a mother, because I think I don't 90 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: know how old you are. I'm fifty seven. But thinking 91 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: about what would I say to Rachel if I didn't 92 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: know a boy that she was, which has been the 93 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: case certainly. You know many times she's gone out with 94 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: boys that I don't know that well, it made me 95 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: sort of like think to myself, what do I tell 96 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: her now she's gonna date someone new? And so I 97 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: guess all of that is good thanks to Gabby, thanks 98 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: to you know her story and you're sharing it. I mean, 99 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 1: I I don't know if any of that brings you comfort. 100 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: I hope. So, I mean, are there certain memories of 101 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: her that do bring you comfort? Now? You know, outside 102 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: of like doing all of this good in the world 103 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: that you're doing. 104 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: We absolutely have a lot of great memories. She lived 105 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: a very full life. She loved to travel. She was 106 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: the oldest of six. Her dad has two boys, two boys, 107 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: and I have a boy and two girls, so she 108 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 2: had plenty of siblings. And she was an artist. I mean, 109 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: she was such a fantastic art She could draw her 110 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 2: her portrait perfectly, or self portrait. I actually bought her 111 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: a tattoo gun before she went on the trip, and 112 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: she gave her brother a tattoo. I told her not 113 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: to do any humans until she practiced her. But she 114 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 2: was a natural, just like I figured she would be. 115 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: And yeah, I just I just miss spending time with her, 116 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: laughing with her. She's just she was just an amazing person. 117 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: But we are grateful. We are so grateful that for 118 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: that time we had with her. We were also so 119 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: grateful that after what happened, we did get to find 120 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 2: her and bring her home, because we work with a 121 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: lot of families that don't get to do that. Right. 122 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: You know, another thing that struck me, I didn't know that, 123 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of your ex husband and your 124 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: husband and your ex husband's wife and all of these 125 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: people that loved her so much. I myself am I 126 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: have I've had many step parents, and I think it's 127 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: an I think it's unusual. Maybe I'm wrong. But I 128 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: see the love in your husband's voice, in the way 129 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: that he talked about what happened and her, and then 130 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: your ex husband's wife who was so flattened by this 131 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: as well. She was So it seems like your dynamic, 132 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: the family dynamic, was really good. And I believe you 133 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: even talked about when you would first split up. You 134 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: were just it was amicable, right like you got married 135 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: or you got together very young, you were pregnant from 136 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: what I remember, But it seems like the four of 137 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: you have something nice. That's how I like to think 138 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: about it. At least I'm not, you know. Can you 139 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: tell me anything more about that? 140 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Joe and I were twenty years old when 141 00:07:55,640 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: we had Gabby. We ended up. He tried to do 142 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: the normal thing. We got engaged, but about get six 143 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: months old, when Gabby was six months old, we just 144 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: we don't know, we were young, we weren't ready to 145 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: spend our lives together. At that point. We were fine. 146 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: It wasn't that we were fighting or we didn't like 147 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 2: each other. It was really amicable, like you said, and 148 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 2: we just decided to part ways. But he stayed very, 149 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: very active in Gabby's life even as a young dad, 150 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: I would drop her off over there, and you know so, 151 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: especially since she could see her grandparents and stuff. And 152 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: then Tara came into Gabby's life when she was just 153 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 2: over one, and so she's been around forever. My husband, 154 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 2: Jim came into Gabby's life when she was two and 155 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: a half. So she's had four parents since she was 156 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 2: a baby. 157 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: That is such a generous thing for you to say 158 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: as the mother. I mean, I feel like that. Obviously, 159 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: the four of you loved her. You all just felt 160 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: like she was the daughter of all four of you. 161 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: But how wonderful for her. I know, I'm here to 162 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: tell you and you already know doesn't happen like that 163 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: all the time. I'm happy. I'm happy for her that 164 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: she had she got to experience like that kind of 165 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: love and the siblings, and that there wasn't the chaost 166 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: I think probably most times comes with divorce. 167 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think she was spoiled a little bit, 168 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: like if one parent said no, she would try to 169 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 2: find one that said yes. 170 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: Right, but there are four of them, so yes, And. 171 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: If we all said no, she'd go to her grandparents. 172 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: She had plenty of those. So yeah, she had a 173 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: big family lot. 174 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: Are you guys still able to support each other, do you? 175 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, So we've actually gotten really close. And 176 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 2: after Gabby's service, we started the Gabby Batito Foundation and 177 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: we've been working together since we started it. And I 178 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: travel with Tara all the time. I've traveled with Joe. 179 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: Jim has traveled with Joe and Tara. We've all kind 180 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 2: of done things together. It's really been amazing. We have 181 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: each other to lean on. We all do very different 182 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 2: things and the four of us come together. We have 183 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 2: different jobs in the foundation. It makes it work. So 184 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: it just we are so grateful that we have each other. 185 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: Wow, I am too, So this is I'm all over 186 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: the place. Please forgive me. But I also I want 187 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: to know about the siblings and how they're doing. 188 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, So my son is twenty two. We 189 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: never really had a deep conversation about it. I think 190 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: he has a lot of guilt. And I think that 191 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: he because he's the older brother, he's the oldest brother. 192 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 2: He's younger brother for her, but he's the oldest brother. 193 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think when she came up for his graduation, 194 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: right before she left for the trip, she took her 195 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: brother TJ on a camping trip as his graduation gift, 196 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: and it was her, Brian and TJ. And then after 197 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 2: everything happened, he thought, why didn't I see anything? Why 198 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: wouldn't she tell me anything? How come I didn't know? 199 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 2: Like he just felt guilty, And I told him that 200 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: none of us can feel guilty. There was only one 201 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 2: person that that was responsible for taking her life. And 202 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: although if we were educated and we knew, we talk 203 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 2: about knowing red flags and that's why we educate students 204 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: and parents and everybody. Now, we can't take the blame 205 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 2: for something that somebody who's evil did to her. And 206 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: he hid it very well from us. We all thought 207 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: Brian was. 208 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: From it, yes, from as a viewer of it, I 209 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: was waiting to get the like ah, until the signs 210 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: that were so over, but I was still like, you know, 211 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 1: kind of like side eyeing. At the beginning of the documentary, 212 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: watching their relationship be described and the video and everything 213 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: on him, I'm like, all right, what am I going 214 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: to see the evil right come out? And I kept 215 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: waiting for that moment and it became obviously it did 216 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: come out, but it was not something that is a mother. 217 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: I don't think I would have recognized at all. I 218 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: don't think anybody could have would have. But what did 219 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: you think of him then when you first met him? 220 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 2: Just a nice kid, quiet, just he seemed very kind 221 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 2: and very polite. He would, you know, appease the younger 222 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 2: sisters by sitting down and drawing with them and stuff. 223 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 2: He was just he just seemed like he fit right in. 224 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: Not your typical narcissist. You know, we hear a lot 225 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 2: about abusers being narcissists, and they're loud and they're obnoxious 226 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: and they want to be the you know, the one 227 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 2: in the room that's the smartest person in the room. 228 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: Ran was not like that. He was very very quiet. 229 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: So I tell people, don't have this picture in your 230 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: mind of what you think an abuser looks like, because 231 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 2: it could really be anyone, and it could be hiding 232 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 2: it very well. And you know, now looking back on 233 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 2: text messages and letters they wrote each other, I have 234 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 2: all her stuff, so I'm a I was able to 235 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 2: sign into her, you know, her iCloud account and look 236 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: at texts, and I see that he was manipulating her 237 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 2: from day one. He definitely tore her down little by 238 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 2: little until she didn't even know what was going on anymore. 239 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: She was confused and she was living in trauma. 240 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: So you could see it in the documentary. You guys 241 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: did an unbelievable job, so you can see it. I'm 242 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: when I first though, when we were first introduced to him, 243 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: it's very understandable, at least from my point of view. 244 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: I couldn't like, this kid is going to turn out 245 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: to be so evil. It was very like I was. 246 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: But there were things like, for instance, when he called 247 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: you to tell you that she was hanging around with 248 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: bad people. Yeah, that was especially with what we know now, 249 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: but like that was just so messed up. 250 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 2: And I believed him. 251 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: You did. You thought he was being sincere, and. 252 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 2: I thought he was worried about her. He sounded concerned. 253 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: He said that this one person she was hanging out 254 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 2: with I believe it was at Taco Bell when she 255 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: was working at Taco Bell, that the people there were 256 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: bad influence, and he thought that they were into drugs 257 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 2: and he was concerned for her. And I did call 258 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 2: her and I was like, Gabby, what's going on? Who 259 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: are you hanging out with? Brian seems really worried about you. 260 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: And she got really upset, and she was like, I 261 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: can't believe you would believe him, but I didn't have 262 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 2: any reason not to, and I wasn't there, And he 263 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 2: made it sound so sincere, like he was really really 264 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: concerned and worried about her. But I've seen the text 265 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 2: messages in response to that. He said, your mom is 266 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: so stupid. I told her not to tell you that 267 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 2: I called so Yeah, So that was the other side 268 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 2: of him that I wasn't seeing at the time. 269 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: How do you, like, how do you as a mom 270 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: know that that's going on? I don't so like looking 271 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: back at it now, you know, it feels like to 272 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: me that it would be absolutely impossible. I'm trying to Yeah, 273 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: I keep trying to put myself as a mother in 274 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: your shoes and imagine some boy that Rachel was my 275 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: daughter was seeing and getting that text, Like should that 276 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: have been a warning sign to me? Like? What do 277 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: you do with that information? To me, I just would 278 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: have said, Rachel, who are you hanging out with? It 279 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: seems so caring of the boyfriend? 280 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 2: Right, It's hard to discern at the time, but I 281 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: think that that was his way of trying to create 282 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 2: a distance between the two of us. They tried to 283 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 2: isolate you from your support system. And Gabby and I 284 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: were so close, so we would talk all the time. 285 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: That he didn't want that anymore, and he was doing 286 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 2: anything in his power to prevent her from telling me 287 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: things that were going on, because I think he was 288 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: afraid that she was going to disclose, but she did not. 289 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 2: She never specifically said anything. But looking back, since I've 290 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: learned about domestic violence and the patterns, I did see 291 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: red flags. I just didn't know what they were. I 292 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: didn't know what red flags looked like, Yeah, how could you? Yeah, 293 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 2: we're not educated. We don't know. You don't know what 294 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: you don't know? 295 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. But it's interesting because watching the 296 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: video from Moab, that was yeah, way eye opening, right, 297 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: because like all of a sudden, it's like, wait a second, 298 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: this guy's good, Like look at him doing his thing, 299 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: and I don't know, I mean the first time you 300 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: saw that, how was that for? Awful? Obviously was awful, 301 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: but like, yeah, I mean did you see things in that? 302 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: Did things become like wow, he really he was good 303 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: at this at manipulation and it lying and it you know. 304 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, the first time I saw it was with the 305 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 2: rest of the world when it was released. 306 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: Seriously, Yeah, it. 307 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 2: Was while she was missing, and I knew that there 308 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: was a police stop that day, and I knew they 309 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: had an argument because I talked to her that day, 310 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: But not until I saw the bodycam footage that I 311 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 2: knew what really happened. And I was shocked. And now 312 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 2: I use that video for training. Police officers use it 313 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: for training. I watch it now and I find something 314 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: new every time. And I could see every every marker 315 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: of domestic violence. The patterns are in that video alone, 316 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: and that's why it's so good for training. 317 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: Please tell me, please, please tell me about some of 318 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: those well. 319 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 2: So the way that he blames her and flips it 320 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: around so quickly and she's apologizing. She says, I'm. 321 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: Sorry start breaking. 322 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 2: First thing she says, right like, what are you sorry for? 323 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 2: Awful when he says she grabbed the steering wheel, and 324 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 2: she says She later says, I did not grab the 325 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 2: steering wheel, but yet she's taking responsibility for other things. 326 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 2: Being honest, I did not grab the steering wheel. He 327 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 2: blamed her for, you know, the car swerving because of that, 328 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 2: he had marks on him. He was calm, she was erratic. 329 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 2: Look at her body language, and those are all red flags. Yeah, 330 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: they should have not only used the clues of her 331 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 2: body language, but the things that she said, like he 332 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: grabbed my face, that's a very controlling behavior. That that 333 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: behavior is him telling Gabby I can take control of you. 334 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: And also is an indication of prior strangulation. Any kind 335 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: of facial airway, neck touching is a clue that that 336 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: he's a strangler. She did disclose to her friend Rose 337 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 2: that he did strangle prior and that he enjoyed it. 338 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw up, may Gabby uncomfortable? He used sexual 339 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 2: strangulation as a way to desensitize her from knowing that 340 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: it was something that he could use to stop her. 341 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: Was that in the documentary, Nicole, I don't know. Did 342 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: I just block it out? 343 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: I feel like I don't remember if I mentioned it 344 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 2: or not. That's just so yeah, I I honestly only 345 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 2: watched the documentary once and I sure I still blocked 346 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 2: it out. So yeah, it's hard for me. 347 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: I might have blocked it out myself. 348 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 2: But yeah, and there's a lot there's the fury. 349 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: Of hearing that the nine one one call and thinking 350 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: that he's hitting her. What is this is not? Like, 351 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: how in the world do you get a I'm sure 352 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: this is obviously one of the banes of your existence. 353 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: But how is it possible they got that call and 354 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: did not immediately protect your daughter? I don't know, but that. 355 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 2: Was a lot of reasons. First of all, that nine 356 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 2: on one caller, I always praise him because a lot 357 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: of people look away, and he actually did too. 358 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: I thought that too. 359 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was fantastic. He had every detail. And that 360 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: day when they pulled them over, they were supposed to 361 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 2: do certain things. As a domestic call, somebody was supposed 362 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: to get arrested. They were all supposed to supposed to 363 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 2: use a lethality assessment, which is basically asking questions to 364 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: find out if somebody's at risk of being killed by 365 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 2: their partner. But they labeled Brian the victim pretty quickly 366 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 2: and saw that. Yeah, he says multiple times in the 367 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: video that she's maybe one hundred pounds, soaking wet, and 368 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: she's this tiny little thing, and it's just it confuses 369 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 2: me with all the details that she gave them, even 370 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: though she didn't say and a lot of people think 371 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 2: a victims should say. I am being abused straight out. 372 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: They're not going to say that they should have used 373 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: their knowledge of the pattern. And they definitely knew the pattern, 374 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 2: because Officer Pratt says in the video, these women go 375 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: back time and time again and they end up getting killed. 376 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 2: He says that himself in the video, So he knew 377 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 2: what was going on. He knows the pattern, He saw 378 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: the pattern. But for some reason they what reason? 379 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: What reason do you think? Well? 380 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 2: I think one reason is there's an alleged history of 381 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 2: abuse from the officer. The officer has a history from 382 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 2: what we've heard through our lawyers and such, and I 383 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 2: think there's a bias there. And then these abusers are 384 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 2: good at manipulating. Look at Brian, he was calm, He 385 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 2: wasn't the one freaking out. He said that Gabby was crazy. 386 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 2: And now you have these men who believe these things 387 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: already inherently as men, they think women are crazy. So 388 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: then they talk about that in the video as well. 389 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: And then so Gabby's automatically labeled the one that attacked Brian, 390 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: she's crazy. And the second witness that they spoke to 391 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 2: saw Gabby retaliating and said that he saw Gabby look 392 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 2: like she was hitting Brian. So the officer spoke to 393 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 2: that witness, but he was leading the witness saying, so 394 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: this is what you saw? Is this what you saw? 395 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: And he was describing it, and the witness says, yeah, 396 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: that sounds about right. You know, just the whole thing 397 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: was horrible. 398 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: Hard the female there were female officers obviously on the 399 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: scene as well. 400 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 2: I have nothing to say about her. That was completely useless. 401 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: She she could have give given Gabby a trauma informed 402 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 2: interview and said, can you tell me more about what 403 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 2: happened today. I want to be a safe place for you. 404 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 2: Why don't we talk about this? 405 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:07,199 Speaker 1: She did not. 406 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 2: She told Gabby that you can't be having these little arguments. 407 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 2: It's it's silly of you and it's ridiculous and basically 408 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: blaming her. And you know, at that point, Gabby was 409 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 2: probably just defeated and said, all right, it's my fault 410 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 2: and I'm going to take the blame for it. So, yeah, Hard. 411 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: Is watching it. I don't know why. But when she 412 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: said I just can I just talk to my mom? 413 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, took my heart. She did get to talk 414 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 2: to her dad briefly during the call. I think he 415 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 2: called right before she got to call me. They did 416 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 2: give her her phone and then I spoke to her 417 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 2: after the call. 418 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: What does she say to you? 419 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 2: She what most victims do. Now we know, she minimized everything. 420 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: I was having a bad morning. It was all my fault. 421 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 2: I'm so so sorry, sorry, I worried you. I shouldn't 422 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 2: have sent you that picture, the picture where the blood 423 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: smear on her eye. She said, I scratched Brian and 424 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 2: he wiped the blood on me, and that it was 425 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: just I'm so sorry, and you know, just minimize the 426 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 2: whole thing. And of course I didn't know that what 427 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 2: she looked like in that video because I hadn't seen it, 428 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 2: so I didn't know what was really going on. I 429 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 2: only could believe what she told me. 430 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: You think she was minimizing it to herself? Was there 431 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: any Obviously she was scared, she was under the influence 432 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: of this you know, maniac who was playing these crazy 433 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: mind games with her. I mean, I I don't know. 434 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: I just I wonder if in the middle of her 435 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: fear and her terror and all of that, because they 436 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: got from what I remember, they they didn't wait twenty 437 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: four hours to you know, reconvene, like they got back together, 438 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: right wait, they didn't got back at that evening. They 439 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: got back in the van and took off. Okay, so 440 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: do you feel like I think you're probably gonna say 441 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: yes to this, but like, the system just failed Gabby. 442 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,239 Speaker 2: The system failed Gabby, and the system fails victims and 443 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 2: survivors time and time again. And it's it's at a 444 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: point now where something needs to change because the numbers 445 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 2: of women, and I will I will say it's mostly women. 446 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 2: And there are men that are abused, yes, but it's 447 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: mostly women. It's about six a day in our country 448 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: on out. 449 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: Six a day. 450 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, murdered six a day on average. Yeah, you might 451 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 2: have a day where there's two, but you might have 452 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: a day with eight eight, right, So it's an average. 453 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 2: And I put out a new report chilling it was 454 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 2: one in four. Now it's one in three. And I 455 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 2: don't like statistics because it's underreported. So a lot of 456 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 2: people aren't even reporting what's going on. But as far 457 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 2: as homicides go, women are being killed constantly and we're 458 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 2: not We're not able to fix this right now with 459 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 2: the way things are. We have to do something differently. 460 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: So what changes are you working on in terms of 461 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,719 Speaker 1: like getting the police to their protocols and what specifically 462 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: are you guys right now trying to institute, you know, 463 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: when nine one one calls happen or police are visiting 464 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: a scene. 465 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot, it's a whole ecosystem. So it's 466 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 2: first of all, my husband started a program for first 467 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 2: responders because he was a firefighter EMT for many years 468 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 2: and we didn't have training. 469 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: So he. 470 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 2: Trains the people that would be on scene that maybe 471 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: would be disclosed to But because people don't want to 472 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: really talk to cops, they're intimidated by them. They don't 473 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 2: really talk to you in trauma informed way. Some do, 474 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 2: some are trained well, most aren't, So we have we 475 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 2: start there. As far as laws go, we want the 476 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: lethality assessment, which is a questionnaire that is asked on scene, 477 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 2: but you have to be trained properly to do. 478 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: It well kind of questions. 479 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 2: So the questions would be something like, has he ever 480 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: choked you? Before we use the word choked because a 481 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 2: lot of people don't use the word strangled. It's a 482 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 2: very intimidated word. Has he been out of work for 483 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: a certain amount of time? Do you have any children? 484 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 2: Have they harmed animals? Before you know. There's just there's 485 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: all kinds of questions, and once you answer yes to 486 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,959 Speaker 2: a certain amount or certain questions, it labels you as 487 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 2: a higher risk and that means we're going to connect 488 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 2: you to a victim advocate immediately because you should not 489 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 2: be with this person anymore, like we need to get 490 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 2: you to an advocate. It's a hard system, but at 491 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: that level we can change things a little easier. It's 492 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 2: then when you get to the courts, you have prosecutors 493 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: who are trying, but the judges are knocking things down. 494 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: They're knocking charges down, or the victim recants, and then 495 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 2: they drop the whole case because the victim's too scared 496 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 2: to testify. So we're trying to help change things where 497 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 2: the victim doesn't have to testify in court, because how 498 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 2: many homicide victims testify They can't because they're not here. 499 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 2: We use evidence, We use evidence to prosecute. So there's 500 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 2: many different levels that need to be changed, but the 501 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 2: biggest thing is everything needs to be across the board. 502 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 2: The United States needs to follow protocol for domestic violence 503 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 2: in the same way instead of county by county, state 504 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: by state. We really are fighting to regulate the way 505 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 2: this is dealt with, but also work in prevention, because 506 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 2: the only way we're going to prevent make those numbers 507 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 2: go down is if we prevent it. So we go 508 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 2: to a lot of schools and we talk to the youth, 509 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: and we want to educate parents and kids and just 510 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: everybody needs to understand what's going on, how to prevent it, 511 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: and how to prevent somebody from becoming an abuser or 512 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 2: flag those kids that are on that path. We might 513 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 2: be able to spot them sooner. 514 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: Have you gotten reports or people keyed you into things 515 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: that as a kid, maybe he was going through or 516 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: that the kind of kid he was. 517 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: No, I honestly I don't know either. I've heard that 518 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 2: he was always quiet in school. He was referred to 519 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: as the weird friend by his friend groups. They liked him, 520 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 2: but like he was the weird friend. So I don't 521 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: know what the childhood was like. I haven't. We had 522 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 2: heard that the family came out publicly at some point 523 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 2: because the media was trying to contact them and they said, 524 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: we don't talk to them. They're black sheep, they don't 525 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: we haven't talked to them in years. 526 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: Wait, the family, so the extended family didn't talk to Brian. 527 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 2: So you love the laundries. 528 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 529 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so apparently they were kind of just secluded from 530 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 2: the rest of the family, so nobody really had any 531 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: information on that. 532 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. I have to say that Gabby's ex boyfriend that 533 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: was so like just he was so touching and Jackson 534 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: to get to know him a little bit, and the 535 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: way that he obviously loved your daughter. And I wonder 536 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: you guys still in touch's what a doll? 537 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 2: Yes, he calls me mom, he says, how are you Yeah? 538 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: Are you serious? 539 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, every once in a while he sends me a 540 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: text and he's just he's such a great person. 541 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: What I mean. And obviously she knew that they were young, 542 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: they broke up and all of that is always, you know, 543 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: very dramatic when you're young, but that she knew that 544 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: he would be there for her. 545 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a good friend. 546 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me a little bit about what it was 547 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: like in terms of when it was all going down 548 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: and you were looking for Gabby and the whole world 549 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: was watching was did you feel supported or did it 550 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: make it even harder? 551 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 2: No, When your loved one, especially your child, is missing, 552 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 2: you want that attention. You want the whole world looking 553 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 2: for them, and that's exactly what we got. I don't 554 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 2: know how we got that. I mean, we did the 555 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 2: hard work. I mean the first thing I did was 556 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: blast Facebook. Every person I had as a contact, I 557 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 2: blasted them out with my daughter's missing, Please help, and 558 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 2: it just spread like wildfire from their media caught onto 559 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 2: it quickly. We couldn't believe how many people fell in 560 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: love with Gabby and want to help find her. And 561 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: you know, even seeing the people at the laundry's house 562 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 2: screaming like where's Babby? That was really emotional for us. 563 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: I did I didn't really support that. I thought it 564 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: was a little bit I was. I was unbelievable. 565 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: But why did you support it? 566 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 2: I don't know. I just thought, that's not how we're 567 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: gonna find her necessarily, as screaming at their house, they're 568 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 2: not gonna They're not going to come talk to you. 569 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 2: So that was kind of, you know, maybe just doing 570 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 2: something that is more meaningful, like continuing to share her 571 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 2: flyer just at the time, you know, because we were 572 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: looking for a missing person, so that seemed counterproductive. 573 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: Well in her face, even before the documentary, you did 574 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: such a good job her face is burned on my memory. 575 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 2: I know she was like, nobody's going to forget me. 576 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 2: I'm going to be found and I'm going to change 577 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 2: the world. That's That's what I feel like her spirit 578 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 2: is doing. 579 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just remarkable. I think it's so I think 580 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: that's remarkable. I can't imagine that you are the norm. 581 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: I would think that women that have gone through what 582 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: you've gone through. I don't know if that there may 583 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: be the ones women that are so brave and and 584 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: I don't know that I could ever be like that. 585 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: I don't I can't imagine that you have so much 586 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: strength that you're you're able to not only see things 587 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: like that, but then use things to change the word, 588 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: use it to change the world what you've been through 589 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: as opposed to I guess I don't know what the 590 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: alternatives are. You have other kids, you have a life, 591 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: you have a loving husband, but must I would think 592 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: it'd be very hard not to curl up into a ball. 593 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes I need to do that. I do take 594 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: those moments when I need to take a break. I 595 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: think that on a spiritual level, Gabby chows us for this, 596 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 2: and there's a higher purpose to all of this. 597 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: I have to believe that. 598 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: And I think that you don't really know what you're 599 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: going to do until something happens. I would have never 600 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 2: thought that I could stand in front of a crowd of, 601 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: you know, three thousand people and talk about her story 602 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 2: and domestic violence and hopes to save others. I never 603 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 2: thought I could do that. I never thought I could 604 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: get in front of a camera and film a documentary. 605 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 2: But I do it because we get the stories that say, 606 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 2: because of Gabby, I'm alive today. Because of Gabby, my 607 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 2: kids are still here. And because of Gabby, I became 608 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 2: a social worker so I could help, Like, there's just 609 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 2: so many positive outcomes that I have to believe that 610 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 2: this is for the greater good, and that's why I'm 611 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 2: going to keep going and doing what we're doing. 612 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: I absolutely love that picturing. Like I don't know why, 613 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: pot just be a great title of a podcast, But 614 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: because of Gabby, yeah, you know, and all of these 615 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: people who are whose lives are being served by what 616 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: she went through. I know that. Also there was a 617 00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: lot about other bodies being found in the search for Gabby, right, yeah, 618 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: a little bit lots right from what I I believe it. 619 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: Was about seven from the initial search throughout that week, 620 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 2: it was about eight days until we found her. Yeah, 621 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: it was. It was unbelievable. I was happy that there 622 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 2: was some resolution brought to families who were looking for 623 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 2: their missing loved ones. So Gabby was like, thanks, Gab, 624 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 2: you know your help these families. I think fifty cent 625 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 2: put out a tweet. They're like, this little girl's fine 626 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 2: in all these missing persons, like really going on, And yeah, 627 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 2: it was just so weird, such a weird time. It's 628 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 2: very much a blur in our heads. Those eight days 629 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 2: were traumatizing and shocking, and we didn't sleep, we didn't eat. 630 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 2: It was it was awful. I knew. I knew the 631 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: call was coming. I knew Brian took her life as 632 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: a mother. I knew because the second the detective told 633 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 2: me he was home with the van, I knew. Oh God, 634 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 2: But we are so lucky that she was able to 635 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 2: be found, because I can't imagine between Wyoming and Florida. 636 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: He could have. 637 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 2: Put her anywhere, he could have taken her anywhere, and 638 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 2: we would have never found her. So I'm just I'm 639 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 2: grateful for the outcome that it's been, and I'm also 640 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 2: perfectly fine with the fact that he's not here anymore. 641 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: Who cares? But I am too, I know what I 642 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: too cares what I think. But I'm okay with the 643 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: two questions that interviewers maybe don't ask you that you 644 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: wish that they would, or anything you wish that they 645 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: would address. 646 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 2: No, I think it's really it's very much all the same. 647 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 2: Where we have to talk about, you know, domestic violence, 648 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 2: how much of an issue and epidemic that it is, 649 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 2: and femicide and how many women are being. 650 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: Killed femicide is as well. I don't what is that 651 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: so femicize? 652 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 2: Is just that it's basically women are targeted homicide. 653 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: It's more you're saying. 654 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's really it's women focused. Right, Women are 655 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 2: being killed when you walk to your car at night, 656 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 2: versus when a man walks to his cart night. 657 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: Us. 658 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 2: As women, we're thinking, I gotta get my key out, 659 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 2: I gotta be aware of my surroundings. I'm worried it's 660 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 2: somebody that attack me tonight when I'm walking out from 661 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 2: the mall to my car. But a man's thinking about, oh, 662 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 2: I got to go home and catch the football game, 663 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 2: you know, like they're not worried. So men need to 664 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 2: step up and do more to help protect women. And 665 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 2: you know, domestic violence isn't going to even come close 666 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 2: to ending until men say it does because they're the 667 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 2: ones killing. So men have to call out other men. 668 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: The good men have to take accountability and call out 669 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 2: the ones that are doing it instead of just turning 670 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 2: a blind eye and allowing the behaviors to happen. Protect women. 671 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to talk about the tour that you're 672 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,479 Speaker 1: going on where there are a lot of good men. Yeah, 673 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: going on that tour with you. But I'm just going 674 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: to quickly say because you said it, and then I 675 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: agree that you're glad that Brian is not in this 676 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: world anymore. Is there any part of you that would 677 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: that feels like you would have liked to have seen him, 678 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, get the justice would have been served, or 679 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: you could have asked questions at least is there do 680 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: you have that still? 681 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 2: I had mixed emotions in the beginning where I was like, 682 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 2: I wanted him to, you know, be punished for this. 683 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 2: I wanted him to sit and rotten jail and think 684 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 2: about what he did for the rest of his life. 685 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 2: But then I thought, Wow, imagine having to go through 686 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 2: that trial, possibly seeing pictures, you know, of the crime 687 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 2: scene and my daughter, and that would have been an 688 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 2: awful experience. So I think it was just meant to be, 689 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 2: and I'm really glad that we didn't have to go 690 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 2: through all that. Glad he's not here anymore. I think 691 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 2: that he's in a place where he'll never get any 692 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 2: anywhere near Gabby. She's in a higher realm. She's she's 693 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 2: a beautiful light and she's shining her light down all 694 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 2: the time. You know, people all over this world are 695 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 2: touched by her and her story and she's saving lives 696 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 2: and I'm just so proud of her. 697 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: Tell me about the tour, please and tell me where 698 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: our listeners can go to get tickets, and just who's 699 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: going to be with you. I know a little bit 700 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: because I've actually interviewed well, Denise Hutchins, who's the most 701 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,240 Speaker 1: incredible woman. 702 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 2: Denise and Aaron are amazing. I was with them yesterday. 703 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 2: Actually this tour, we weren't sure about it, right, We 704 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 2: talked about doing this tour and sitting in front in 705 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 2: front of an audience live with with John Ramsey. Yeah, 706 00:38:54,560 --> 00:39:01,359 Speaker 2: don Bine, Ramsey's dad and Denise Huskins and Aaron and 707 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 2: you know, just these people and the dad Sean from 708 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 2: unknown number, the father who is completely I mean, I 709 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 2: can't even believe that that happened to his daughter and 710 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 2: that family. I just we are true crime stories. To 711 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 2: the rest of the world. We are, you know, a 712 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 2: Netflix documentary or somebody they've seen on the news, and 713 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 2: we're tragedies. But to get in front of people that 714 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,399 Speaker 2: intimately in a smaller theater setting and talking to them 715 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 2: so they could see that we're real people, we're real families, 716 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 2: that these can happen to anyone. These things are not 717 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 2: things that just happen to us. They're going to happen 718 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 2: to anyone, and we're just out there telling our stories 719 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 2: to try and prevent that from happening. But we also 720 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 2: want to connect with them on a level to show 721 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 2: them that, you know, we're people. You know, John Ramsey 722 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: gets so much hate, so much hate, and he is 723 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,359 Speaker 2: such a good man, and I just hate seeing that. 724 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: So maybe connecting with us on that level will make 725 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 2: us look a little different and people will see us 726 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 2: in a different lens than just a Netflix documentary. As 727 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 2: far as tickets go, I believe it's through the Crime 728 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 2: Unfiltered website. They have social media pages and stuff. I 729 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 2: know they're moving the first two dates to the fall 730 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 2: because more people can come in the fall, but the 731 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 2: second the second dates are still available in June. 732 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,840 Speaker 1: So interesting doing what I've been doing with these speaking 733 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: to the people like you who are so extraordinary. I mean, 734 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: you are period. There's no like, it's not just I 735 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 1: cannot believe how you have channeled all of your grief. 736 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,359 Speaker 1: It is quite extraordinary and remarkable. But and I think 737 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: the tour is I think it's incredible that you guys 738 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: are going to all be together, and I mean I imagine 739 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,879 Speaker 1: all of you just becoming so close right just through 740 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 1: all of this. 741 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a connection with people who understand. Yeah, And 742 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 2: I just adored Denise. She is such a beautiful soul 743 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 2: and her message is so important, and what happened to 744 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 2: her and her husband, they did not deserve that. 745 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: To say the least. 746 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 2: I think it's great to tell our stories and seeing 747 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 2: how it's taken differently in a more intimate setting where 748 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 2: people are right there in front of us and able 749 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 2: to talk to us and ask questions and meet us 750 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 2: in person. I think it'll just be different. 751 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you are an inspiration, my friend, and I 752 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: keep saying it. I can't help it. I am so 753 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: grateful that you even would join me and talk about Gabby. 754 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: And again she's like, that gorgeous face of hers is 755 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: going to be burned. It's burned into my brain, hers 756 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,879 Speaker 1: and yours both. So really, just really thank you for 757 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: spending this time with us, and we are thinking of 758 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 1: you and praying for you and always always always thinking 759 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: of Gabby. 760 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, appreciate you