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Speaker 1: Welcome into North Side Territory Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sahadev Charma with my partner Patrick Mooney. Today, Patrick,

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Speaker 1: we are going to talk with Jeff Potts of Baseball America.

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Speaker 1: The Baseball America just released the Cub's top ten prospect list.

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Speaker 1: Jeff did a long chat with Cubs fans or prospect hounds.

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Speaker 1: Who knows a combination of the two. Yeah, because desperate

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Speaker 1: for prospect, because Jeff, thanks so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: It's not, you know, prospect, it's not a system flush

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Speaker 1: with talent, a lot of near graduates. But I guess

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Speaker 1: let's just start, you know, the overall thoughts on this

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Speaker 1: system and where they sit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I have to say I'm pretty thankful

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Speaker 2: to the Cubs for not graduating Moyses, ballistero In Kacy

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Speaker 2: and Kevin al Kintara, just because it did leave me

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Speaker 2: some interesting players to write about. Had those guys graduated,

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Speaker 2: I think this system would probably rank a lot lower

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Speaker 2: and would be far less enjoyable writing and reading. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I think it's still the strength that they

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Speaker 2: had last year, where there are some close to the

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Speaker 2: majors players here guys who have already debuted now kind

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Speaker 2: of across the board within that group, and then you

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Speaker 2: have somebody like Jackson Wiggins, who I think, upside wise

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Speaker 2: is probably one of the more interesting pitching prospects in

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Speaker 2: any system. Had there been you know, maybe a few

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Speaker 2: more innings. He had that shut down in July where

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Speaker 2: they kind of kept it quiet, and you know it

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Speaker 2: was more or less reported as just trying to limit

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Speaker 2: his innings. Obviously somebody that had you know, surgery coming

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Speaker 2: out of the draft, limited track record a success at Arkansas,

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Speaker 2: but the stuff has always been big.

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Speaker 3: This was sort of his breakout year.

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Speaker 2: This is the best year that he's had, you know,

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Speaker 2: since since he walked on campus at Arkansas and then

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Speaker 2: obviously was drafted and became a professional. There's big stuff there.

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Speaker 2: He's probably the guy in the system I'm most excited about,

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Speaker 2: but was a little bit more cautious in terms of

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Speaker 2: ranking him simply because of what the injury risk is there.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is a guy where we haven't seen

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Speaker 2: him ever exceed you know, one hundred plus innings in

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Speaker 2: a year, and that's a bit of a limiting factor

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Speaker 2: when it comes to projecting as a starting pitching prospect

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Speaker 2: We've learned over time that innings really do matter quite

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Speaker 2: a bit, even more so than stuff.

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Speaker 4: Jeff, one thing that jumped out to me on this

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Speaker 4: list is that Wiggins is the only pitcher on that

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Speaker 4: top ten, And Sahadev was asking about that at the

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Speaker 4: GM meetings, like, what are the cups hitting prospects that

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Speaker 4: good or they're pitching prospects that bad? How do you

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Speaker 4: look at what seems to be a real imbalance in

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Speaker 4: the system.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you look at this system and there's

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Speaker 2: just not a lot of upside arms. Right, you have

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Speaker 2: some guys who I think are what I would qualify

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Speaker 2: is starter depth number six, number seven starters. Good teams

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Speaker 2: definitely need guys like that to supplement innings throughout the year.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think obviously the Dodgers have an extreme

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Speaker 2: embarrassment of riches in terms of the pitching prospects in

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Speaker 2: their organization and just pitchers in general. But you do

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Speaker 2: need sort of that depth. The problem is all the

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Speaker 2: guys that they have that are sort of that depth

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Speaker 2: are kind of at the lowest rung of the type

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Speaker 2: of pitching prospect you would even let start a Major

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Speaker 2: League game. You're talking about guys like Brandon Bertze, who

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Speaker 2: obviously is now dealing with injury and you know, could

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Speaker 2: potentially miss all the next year. Will Sanders, who was

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Speaker 2: good at points in time at South Carolina, was considered

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Speaker 2: a decent draft prospect as an underclassman that sort of

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Speaker 2: fell apart during his junior campaign. He's been fine as

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Speaker 2: a professional, but he's once again not the kind of

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Speaker 2: guy that is going to be a number three starter

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Speaker 2: or better, or someone that even projects as like a

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Speaker 2: dominant reliever. And it's a lot of arms like that,

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Speaker 2: even like a breakout on arm like justin Florentino. It's

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Speaker 2: a soft tosser. It's a really interesting sweeper, but it's

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Speaker 2: mid seventies. I mean, he's a smaller guy you kind

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Speaker 2: of go throughout this system. The only guy with true upside,

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Speaker 2: it feels like, outside of the top ten pitching wise,

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Speaker 2: is Caleb Wing and we just haven't we haven't seen

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Speaker 2: it yet. So a lot of that is going off

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Speaker 2: of amateur reports. He wouldn't be the first pitching prospect

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Speaker 2: that backed up from what his amateur numbers are. He

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be the first pitching prospect as an amateur that

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Speaker 2: saw his stuff get better as a professional. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think that we have a lot of faith at

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Speaker 2: this point that the Cubs player development, particularly on the

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Speaker 2: pitching side, is capable making those guys better. We've had

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Speaker 2: a big win recently with Kate Horton, one that I

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Speaker 2: think you could probably look back in the last thirty

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Speaker 2: years of the Cub's farm system and they haven't had

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of those wins. Even when they were

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Speaker 2: really successful under theo Epstein, they didn't develop pitching. So

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Speaker 2: I do think that's a concern, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: a concern when you look at where this team falls

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Speaker 2: sort of in the potential contenders amongst the National League.

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Speaker 2: All of those teams they are going to be competing

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Speaker 2: with the Dodgers, et cetera. The Mets, whoever, have a

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Speaker 2: lot more pitching, and you sort of have to wonder

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Speaker 2: where is it going to come from, because they're going

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Speaker 2: to have if they're going to build a contending starting rotation,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to be from internal resources. They're going

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Speaker 2: to have to make some trades from those young position

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Speaker 2: players that have just debuted that we talked about at

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Speaker 2: the top of the system, or they're going to have

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Speaker 2: to go out and spend half a billion dollars to

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Speaker 2: invest in that rotation. It's just there's a lack of

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Speaker 2: options there that I think are good enough to make

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Speaker 2: a deep playoff run.

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Speaker 1: We've heard this story before, Patrick, I'm getting Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so you touched on it there and and you know, like,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, I think Patrick and I have heard

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Speaker 1: a lot of different stories about this recently. It's it's

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Speaker 1: been something that I've been looking into because I'm curious

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Speaker 1: about it. I'm curious what you've heard. Do you believe

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Speaker 1: it's it's a mix of things this issue or you

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Speaker 1: touched on it player development?

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Speaker 3: Maybe?

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Speaker 1: Is it player development? Is it amateur draft? I get

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Speaker 1: a lot of reports on like what are these pictures

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Speaker 1: that they're drafting? Uh, people aren't thrilled with around the league.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying they don't quite understand their tactics when it

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Speaker 1: comes to drafting pictures. Is that like, what's your focus

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Speaker 1: when you look back on the let's say the last

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Speaker 1: four or five drafts and then player development stuff, Is

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Speaker 1: that where would you put place or played?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I sort of subscribe to the philosophy that

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Speaker 2: it's twofold.

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Speaker 3: Right, there's an old line.

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Speaker 2: I'm from New England, I'm I'm a Patriots fan and

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Speaker 2: I'm old, So I'm sorry everybody.

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Speaker 3: But there's an.

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Speaker 2: Old line from Bill Parcells when he was walking out

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Speaker 2: the door and had his issue with Craft, and it was,

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Speaker 2: if you're gonna ask me to cook the meal, you

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Speaker 2: should at least let me shop for the groceries. Now,

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Speaker 2: we don't have, you know, an all encompassing dictator that's making,

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Speaker 2: you know, baseball decisions and managing the team. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: happen in baseball, but I do think it's the same

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Speaker 2: sort of concept with player development being involved in the

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Speaker 2: targeting and identification on the amateur side and making sure

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Speaker 2: that you're targeting guys with good traits that we can

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Speaker 2: accentuate and turn into better pitchers.

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Speaker 3: Whether it's the Rays, whether.

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Speaker 2: It's the Dodgers, whether it's you know, and these are

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Speaker 2: people that came from the Cubs front office, whether it's

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Speaker 2: the Red Sox. If you look at the Red Sox,

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Speaker 2: this is another team that historically has not developed pitching prospects.

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Speaker 2: John Lester and Clay Buckholtz kind of stand alone at

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Speaker 2: the only guys in my lifetime and I was going

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Speaker 2: to p a Tuck at Red Sox games in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty nine. So, like I've seen a lot of Red

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Speaker 2: Sox prospects, they've never been able to develop pitching. They

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Speaker 2: brought in different people, they started to involve those people

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Speaker 2: in the amateur evaluation process and identifying traits, and then

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Speaker 2: we have Peyton Toley and we have Conlee Early, and

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Speaker 2: we have some of these guys that are then able

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Speaker 2: to learn new pitches, add velocity, get better their ceiling.

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Speaker 2: And I think the issue with a lot of the

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Speaker 2: pitchers that the Cubs have taken is relying on the model.

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Speaker 2: They've drafted a lot of hitters that have certain traits.

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Speaker 2: They all have pretty good end zone with they all

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Speaker 2: have good swing decisions, they all have good evs, and

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Speaker 2: I think Ethan Conrad and camp Smith are certainly wins

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Speaker 2: in that direction. But then you start to look at

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Speaker 2: some of the later rounds, even some of the high

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Speaker 2: school guys that they're taking. I actually had somebody with

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Speaker 2: the amateur team with the Cubs years ago, maybe two

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Speaker 2: years ago, after the cam Smith draft kind of joke

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Speaker 2: that we took a bunch of first basement and corner

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Speaker 2: infielders and corner outfielders. And I think that's the issue

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Speaker 2: with model drafting, is you miss on upside because you're

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Speaker 2: not evaluating some of the other traits and characteristics that

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Speaker 2: can turn guys into stars, that can make guys better

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Speaker 2: no player. And I actually heard this from somebody once

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Speaker 2: again in the Cubs front office. They tell me that

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Speaker 2: they don't believe that any players that come into the

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Speaker 2: system are fully developed yet that everybody has room to develop. Well,

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Speaker 2: if that's the case, then why haven't we seen guys

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Speaker 2: honestly take big steps forward in their development, you know

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Speaker 2: under the Cubs two to which that's even on the

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Speaker 2: hitting side a little bit. We heard all the stuff

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Speaker 2: about Justin Stone. We haven't seen the we haven't seen

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Speaker 2: a big breakout bat. Even Matt Shaw this year was

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Speaker 2: kind of underwhelming at the plate, frankly, And so I

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Speaker 2: think you look at all those characteristics and I think

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Speaker 2: that it is, frankly an amateur targeting problem to an extent.

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Speaker 3: I think they do a pretty good job up in

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Speaker 3: the early rounds.

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Speaker 2: The models are supposed to eat in round five to twenty,

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Speaker 2: and they're just not doing that. And I think some

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Speaker 2: of it is, you know what they're targeting. I just

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Speaker 2: don't see the high upside pitchers coming in. And you know,

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Speaker 2: even a bad system like the Astros that I cover,

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Speaker 2: I cover the Astros, I cover the Cardinals, I cover

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Speaker 2: the Blue Jays, and I cover the Cubs. Every single

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Speaker 2: one of those systems is a lot more pitching than

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Speaker 2: the Cubs do, and they don't necessarily have more resources,

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Speaker 2: and some of them have been very limited in terms

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Speaker 2: of what they can.

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Speaker 3: Do in the draft. I mean, even the Cardinals have

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Speaker 3: kind of turned it around.

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Speaker 2: You know, that was a team that for years was

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Speaker 2: kind of drafting really boring model pitchers, left handers who

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Speaker 2: threw soft, that had good walk rates and decent strikeout rates.

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Speaker 3: It was sort of that K to Bb model.

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Speaker 2: This year they go out and they draft Liam Doyle,

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Speaker 2: they get Tanner Franklin, they get Kid Crosslin. They actually

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Speaker 2: have some interesting arms now. And I don't know if

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Speaker 2: that's the high end bloom effect, because he certainly had

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Speaker 2: some of that impact in Boston. Maybe a little bit

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Speaker 2: less drastic, but you know that that's the kind of

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Speaker 2: stuff that I think the Cubs need to start doing.

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Speaker 2: They need to start targeting more upside and figuring out

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Speaker 2: how internally they can then turn those upside traits into

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Speaker 2: actual skills and production. And you know, for a team

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Speaker 2: like this that's been lacking and pitching, I think it's

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Speaker 2: something that's really really hurt them.

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Speaker 1: I mean I've heard similar stuff and I agree. I

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Speaker 1: think you know you want upside with pitching, like you

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Speaker 1: want to lean on your development, because I do think

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Speaker 1: there are some people that can out them. Brezo built

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Speaker 1: something solid. There maybe needs to be fine tuned, and

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Speaker 1: you always want to find tune, but there are there

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Speaker 1: are ways to get better, and I think going upside

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Speaker 1: is makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break and.

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Speaker 1: Get back to chatting with Jeff Pott's about Cubs prospects.

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Speaker 3: AJ. We're going to do things a little bit differently here.

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Speaker 1: All right, Welcome back to Northside Territory with Baseball America's

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Speaker 1: Jeff Pond's talking Cubs Prospects. Patrick, go ahead and ask

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Speaker 1: whatever you got for Jeff.

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Speaker 4: No, I appreciate your informed balance perspective because I don't

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Speaker 4: know being around the Cubs and covering the Cubs. As

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Speaker 4: you know, Jeff, there's usually a lot of hype around there, guys.

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Speaker 4: And when you framed it as like looking back at

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Speaker 4: the last thirty years, like you're right in terms of

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Speaker 4: the pitching side, I mean kind of big Z Carrie

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Speaker 4: Woodmark pryor Jeff Samarga justin steel. Maybe you can get

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Speaker 4: a little credit for Kyle Hendrix even though he wasn't

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Speaker 4: fully homegrown. So what's kind of your outlook? Because we

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Speaker 4: were just at the GM meetings hearing all this stuff

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Speaker 4: of looking at the Cubs they really have essentially Dansby

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Speaker 4: Swanson on a fully guaranteed deal after twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 4: We don't know what's gonna happen with the next CBA.

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Speaker 4: What is your kind of outlook on this organization? Like

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Speaker 4: can these young hitters carry them? Is there enough to backfill?

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Speaker 4: Looking more broader not just filling out pitching staff, Like

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Speaker 4: what's kind of your five year outlook considering how well

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Speaker 4: you know it from kind of the bottom up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the question is like, you know, how

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Speaker 2: much the Cubs want to stink for a couple of years,

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Speaker 2: you know. I think that you have players like Owen Casey,

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Speaker 2: al Kintara, Biasteros, maybe Conrad depending upon how the health

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Speaker 2: bounces back and Kane Kepley as guys that can probably

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Speaker 2: move pretty fast out of the most recent draft, and

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Speaker 2: we're seeing college players with skills that you know, produce early.

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Speaker 2: We're seeing those guys move really fast at this point

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Speaker 2: in time, so that's sort of a trend. I still

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Speaker 2: think they can hit. I think the lineup is going

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Speaker 2: to produce runs. Even without Kyle Tucker. There's still enough

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Speaker 2: offense here, and I think especially in comparison to some

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Speaker 2: of the other teams in their division. I still I

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Speaker 2: understand how many runs the Brewers scored last year. It

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Speaker 2: wouldn't shock me if the if the Cub's offense is

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Speaker 2: better than the if they slide back a little bit,

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Speaker 2: deal with some injuries some of the guys that had

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Speaker 2: big years for them don't, we can't bet on that.

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Speaker 2: But I do think that the lineup wise is fine.

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Speaker 2: It really is the pitching that concerns me the most.

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Speaker 2: I think they can score enough runs, you know, for

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Speaker 2: you know, production from Seya Suzuki and just progression from

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Speaker 2: him as a hitter. Michael Bush, regardless of how zayre

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Speaker 2: Hope looks in that Dodger system and that shines off

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Speaker 2: the roads a little bit there too. Bush has been

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Speaker 2: a really good player. Nico Horner still a really good player.

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Speaker 2: Ian Hapkin hit. I think Bawasteros probably is going to

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Speaker 2: be your DH. Maybe he catches twenty to thirty games.

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Speaker 2: I'm still a little questionable about whether they trust him enough.

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Speaker 2: Back there, Kelly had a pretty good year. We know

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Speaker 2: what PCA does when he's locked in. You know, I'm

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Speaker 2: not writing off a guy that had a thirty thirty

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Speaker 2: year because he had a couple of tough months. I

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Speaker 2: think his style of hitting is just going to be

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Speaker 2: like that. He's going to be a guy that's a

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Speaker 2: little bit streaky. So I think you look through the

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Speaker 2: whole lineup and it's like, all right, this is a

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Speaker 2: pretty good lineup. This is a playoff lineup. I think

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Speaker 2: the big question for me though, is, you know, are

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Speaker 2: they going to move out some of these guys that

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Speaker 2: might be secondary pieces, which al kintyre and Casey at

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Speaker 2: this point kind of look that way. Can they package

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Speaker 2: some of those pieces together and upgrade the pitching staff.

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Speaker 2: Can they go into free agency and upgrade the pitching staff.

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Speaker 2: I really think that's the big question mark. It's not

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Speaker 2: a bad team. I don't think it's a poorly run organization,

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Speaker 2: but you know, I do think that the holes in

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Speaker 2: their swing, the stuff that they're missing on right now,

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Speaker 2: drags them down a little bit because it's so important

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't even necessarily have to be a bunch

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Speaker 2: of elite pitchers like we saw with the Blue Jays.

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Speaker 2: I think you just need to have some some sturdy vets,

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Speaker 2: guys that can get deep into games and compete, and

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm just not sure that they have that outside

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Speaker 2: of Kate Horton, and I guess, you know, we'll see

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Speaker 2: with what Matthew Boyd and Amos and tai On are

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Speaker 2: this year. But overall, I think, you know, they need

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Speaker 2: another another one or two, even more so than bringing.

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Speaker 3: Back Kyle Tucker.

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Speaker 2: I honestly think trying to build the top of that

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Speaker 2: that rotation is going to make all the difference in

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 1: I mean kind of on that topic, and you touched

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Speaker 1: on two of the names, but I'm curious overall twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five draft, what were your thoughts any intrigue beyond

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Speaker 1: Like Conrad, it feels like an incomplete right now. We

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Speaker 1: just don't know. I get here like a lot of positives,

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Speaker 1: like this guy could be really good. It could be

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Speaker 1: a I don't want to say cam Smith type steel,

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Speaker 1: but a steal a later you know, you know, a

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Speaker 1: later pick in the first round that turns out to

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Speaker 1: be pretty solid. Kepley obviously had good numbers. Outside of that,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who to be excited about, if there's

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Speaker 1: anyone for Cubs fans to be excited about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm.

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Speaker 2: Really excited about those top two guys in the system.

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Speaker 3: Had Conrad played a little bit longer at Wake.

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Speaker 2: Or you know, had come back and played you know,

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Speaker 2: late in the season, to get some video of him

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Speaker 2: and sort of backfield workouts in October and early November,

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Speaker 2: and he's.

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Speaker 3: The swing looks good again. He's looking healthy again.

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Speaker 2: I know I've heard he probably might play him first

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Speaker 2: base early before he goes back into center field.

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Speaker 3: Some of that might just be with the throwing, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: I will say, like I saw this guy's breakout on

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Speaker 2: the Cape a couple summers ago. You know, at that

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Speaker 2: time was at Marist mid major type school, led the

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Speaker 2: nation in triples. He's a big, tall, strong plus athlete,

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Speaker 2: left handed bat there's probably a better foundational.

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Speaker 3: Plate skills than there were with Cam Smith.

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Speaker 2: Not as much power, but some power and a more

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Speaker 2: realistic shot to be a plus defender. Even if it's

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Speaker 2: you know, plus and right field and more of above

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Speaker 2: average to average and center, that's still a really useful player.

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Speaker 3: Kan Kepley is is is.

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Speaker 2: He's sort of a Brewers player, like a guy who

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Speaker 2: makes a ton of contact, really good swing decisions. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he is a terror on the bases. I mean just

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Speaker 2: a sleep paralysis demon for catchers. Like he's he's got

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Speaker 2: great jumps, he makes great reads, he's super aggressive. I've

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Speaker 2: gotten plus I've gotten plus plus grades in center field.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he doesn't play there because of PCA, but a

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Speaker 2: really good player.

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Speaker 3: Nonetheless, outside of that.

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Speaker 2: I think you're probably praying on Caleb Wing turning into

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Speaker 2: something Josiah Harsorn, who came out of Orange Lutheran, which is,

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Speaker 2: you know, switch hitter, outfielder with some upside. Orange Lutheran,

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Speaker 2: you know, one of the top schools in the CIF,

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Speaker 2: which is probably the top baseball high school baseball conference

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Speaker 2: in the country, just in terms of talent. I think

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Speaker 2: Pierce Coppol is still interesting it's probably a reliever, but

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Speaker 2: it's a lefty with good stuff who's tall, that's had

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Speaker 2: a ton of injuries that he you can kind of

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Speaker 2: figure something out there.

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Speaker 3: There might be some upside that's kind of an interesting pick.

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Speaker 2: But outside of that, I mean, they're not doing the

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Speaker 2: sort of things that we'll say the Brewers do. We

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Speaker 2: had an article up on this. They're not finding those

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Speaker 2: like high upside under scouted, undercommitted high school players where

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Speaker 2: you can you know, get some really.

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Speaker 3: Big wins in rounds eleven to twenty.

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Speaker 2: You're not seeing that sort of approach to the bonus pool,

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Speaker 2: and I think, you know, maybe that's kind of limiting,

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Speaker 2: but you know, we'll see if they change their approach

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Speaker 2: in that sense.

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Speaker 3: I think teams are starting to smart smarten up to that.

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Speaker 2: So some of it, I do think is just the

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Speaker 2: approach in the draft, and you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: you know, the first five rounds there's always some interesting names.

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Speaker 2: After that, they're a little bit more boring than some

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Speaker 2: other teams who might take some bigger shots later or

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Speaker 2: you know, pull some bonus money down. But I think

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Speaker 2: some of it is just you know, scouting under scouted

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Speaker 2: areas when you have a smaller scouting department area guys

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Speaker 2: covering more territory, You're probably gonna maybe miss on some

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Speaker 2: of those values.

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Speaker 4: I feel like the last time we talked to you,

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Speaker 4: Jeff was probably leading into the trade deadline and Kate

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Speaker 4: Horton was sort of churning a corner. As someone who's

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Speaker 4: tracked him for a long time, what was your take

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Speaker 4: on his development this year? Because for all the issues

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Speaker 4: as the Cubs did have this year, their playoff team

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Speaker 4: with like Pete crow Armstrong getting MVP consideration, Kate Horton

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Speaker 4: putting his name, you know, at least in a second

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Speaker 4: half sort of cy Young conversation, what's your outlook on

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Speaker 4: CAD now and what sort of popped it in your mind?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I think you know.

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Speaker 2: You look at at Horton's season command continue to tick up,

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Speaker 2: which you know was even an issue at points in

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Speaker 2: time in twenty twenty four. Granted, some of those Triple

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Speaker 2: A numbers might be be a mirage because he was

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Speaker 2: pitching in Triple A where they were still testing out

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Speaker 2: the ABS system, not the Challenge system.

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Speaker 3: ABS was awful.

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Speaker 2: The zones were super inconsistent, they were really really small.

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Speaker 2: It was a smaller strike zone than pitches were seen

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Speaker 2: in the major leagues. Some ways that might have helped them.

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Speaker 2: I think seeing that big development in terms of the

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Speaker 2: command finding multiple ways to generate outs, whether it's ground

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Speaker 2: balls or weak contact beyond just you know, trying to

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Speaker 2: blow it by guys and get swinging strikes. I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, the addition of the sinker, that we didn't

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Speaker 2: throw it a ton, I think it just got guys

435
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 2: a little bit more off that that forcing fastball shape.

436
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 2: It's kind of a cut ride shape without a ton

437
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: of ride. You know, the slider is still good, but

438
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 2: I think the variation, you know, within the pitch mix,

439
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 2: the fact that he was less of a three pitch

440
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 2: pitcher and really a five pitch.

441
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 3: I think, you know, really allowed him to have success.

442
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 2: I think the positive, the silver lining to kind of

443
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 2: take in all this if you're a Cubs fan is

444
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 2: guys usually get better after their first year, particularly on

445
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 2: the pitching side. Hitters might slide back a little bit

446
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: as the book gets out there, Pitchers usually progress and

447
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: get a little bit better.

448
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 3: They get more comfortable.

449
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 2: That first initial ascent and taste of the majors usually

450
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 2: beats pitchers up a little bit. He didn't get beat

451
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: up that bad, and I think that there are probably

452
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 2: some ways for this to go where he's getting more

453
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: strikeouts and he takes another step forward over the next

454
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 2: couple of years.

455
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 3: So he was a really promising development.

456
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, one of the few pieces

457
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: in that rotation that you feel really good about going

458
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: into twenty twenty six.

459
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we're both Kate Horton fans just talking

460
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: to him that you can see the intangibles are what

461
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: you need to succeed in the big leagues, especially as

462
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: a bitcher. Two names I'm curious about. One obviously a

463
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: top prospect. He Jefferson Rojas made it all the way

464
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: to Triple A but struggled in Triple A. Should there

465
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: be I mean, he's young. Is that a concern? The

466
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: struggles the results. I'm not looking at data. I don't

467
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: have any all that information. I don't know how much

468
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: of that is is randomness and how much of that

469
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: is you know, maybe he was just overwhelmed in Triple A.

470
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: Other guy who put up numbers, no clue if he's

471
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: actually any good. Is Owen a Ors who had a

472
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: good UH had a good AFL. Both those guys. Curious

473
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: your thoughts on on where they stand right now prospect wise.

474
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think with Rojas, he's been so

475
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 2: young at every level he's been at, and for the

476
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: most part, like he's continued to produce, like struggle at

477
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: double A, you know, over the second half of the season.

478
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: I think some of that was was bad bad at

479
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: ball luck frankly, but he's also I mean super young.

480
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 2: I mean he turned, you know, twenty years old at

481
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: the end of April, so entered the season as a

482
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 2: nineteen year old, so he's far ahead of where he

483
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 2: should be. It was a really good year though for

484
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: him in the Midwest League, where he's still really young.

485
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: For the Midwest League, and I think we know as

486
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: folks that have lived in the northern part of the country,

487
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 2: the early months in the Midwest League are cold, man,

488
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: and it's really hard to hit in cold weather. Once

489
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: it warms up a little bit in May, things start

490
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: to get going. He was pretty consistent there. I don't

491
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: have a lot of questions regarding Rojas at the plate.

492
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: There's a lot of contact, good swing decisions. The evs

493
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 2: aren't great, but they're good enough for sort of age

494
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: based that you can project him to have forty five

495
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: fifty sort of power. You know, he runs pretty well,

496
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: not like a demon on the bases, but a guy

497
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: that could probably steal fifteen to twenty bags for you.

498
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: I think my bigger question marks with him are in

499
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 2: the field. The hands and actions aren't great. The internal

500
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 2: clock isn't great. He's athletic, but just makes a lot

501
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: of bad moves and like extra effort plays, dives, jumps,

502
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: that sort of thing.

503
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 3: The arm is still really good, so I.

504
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: Don't think he's gonna play shortstop. There's still a chance

505
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: that he's a pretty good third baseman or second basement.

506
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: I think he kind of fits more into a like

507
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: a utility type of role, where it's a guy that

508
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 2: can hit, he can run, he can play a bunch

509
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,719
Speaker 2: and do a bunch of things for you situationally, can

510
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: hit lefties. But the big question mark is, you know,

511
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 2: where is his everyday position. Some of that stuff might

512
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: get worked out, but just watching the tape and I

513
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 2: watched pretty much every defensive play that he made throughout

514
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty five season, and those are the question

515
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: marks that came away with I was a little less

516
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 2: impressed than I had been in previous years regarding the

517
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: glove and the defense.

518
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: The arm is still there.

519
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: It's not like he's a thirty defender, but it's more

520
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: like a forty five, and you kind of hope that

521
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: he gets to a fifty at second base or third base.

522
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 3: So an interesting player, you know, I'm I'm kind of

523
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: on the fence as to where this goes.

524
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 2: I think it's probably more like an average regular than

525
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: a potential above average middle infielder, which is what we

526
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: thought a couple of years ago, when you know, he first,

527
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: you know, made a state side debut here and was

528
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: was pretty good.

529
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 3: Sorry, who was the other player that you mentioned, Owen Airs?

530
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: I mean he was kind of on the cusp of

531
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 2: the top thirty entering AFL. I try not to take

532
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: too much away from the Arizona Fall League, so a

533
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 2: little bit less on on the offense, a little bit

534
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: less on the bat. I think what people were really

535
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: buying into talking to scouts from outside the organization that

536
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 2: were maybe getting a first look on Airs was the

537
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: catching defense is pretty good. You know, this is an

538
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: organization that needs some good defensive catchers. There's a few,

539
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: but he's probably the one that has the best balance

540
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 2: of defense and offense. So I think he's, you know,

541
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 2: probably a player that's gonna rank somewhere in that like

542
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: eighteen to thirty range, on the top thirty, and I

543
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: think is definitely a player that's put himself into position

544
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: to either be in trade conversations or you know, at least,

545
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 2: you know, in consideration for the Cubs in terms of

546
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: like a long term backup catching option or something like that.

547
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: He's an interesting player. I think it was, you know,

548
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: a nice breakout season for Airs.

549
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 4: Hey, Jeff, last thing, we love these lists. Cubs fans

550
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 4: love these lists. The rankings always drop people's attention just

551
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 4: for our listeners, Like, what else are you are you

552
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 4: working on? What can Cubs fans check out the rest

553
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 4: of this offseason in terms of your coverage at Baseball America.

554
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're still rolling out all the top tens.

555
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: We're finishing up the National League this week them were

556
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: rolling into the American League.

557
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: Over the next three weeks. We turn in the handbook.

558
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: The friday before Christmas, We take off a couple of weeks,

559
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: and then once the new year starts, we start to

560
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: roll out all the top thirties.

561
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 3: The new Top one hundred list.

562
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: But in the short term, we're all focused on forty

563
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: man deadline day, which is to day, and then we'll

564
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: start rolling out some of our Rule five previews, which

565
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: is for the real real prospect sikos. Yeah, ticket to

566
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: the sickos or into the Rule five. So that's something

567
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: that via JJ spent a lot of time on. We

568
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: love doing it because there's there's nothing better than trying

569
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: to discover the twenty six man on a really bad

570
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: teams ross.

571
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: I mean, some of those guys turn into a star

572
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: every once in a while, right, so it's always fun

573
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: to be on it. Thanks so much for your time.

574
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: That's Chef Ponce with Baseball America. Make sure to check

575
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: out the Cubs Top ten. You can go re his

576
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: chat with fans all that good stuff. I'm sure he's

577
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: working on plenty more lists. Thanks so much for your time, Jeff,

578
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: this is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe,

579
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: subscribe to the YouTube channel. Check out Baseball America. Subscribe

580
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: to The Athletic where Patrick and I are on top

581
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: of all things Cubs. Thanks for listening to everyone. Take