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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast from the Action Network.

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Speaker 1: I am Chad Millman along with my host co host

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Speaker 1: black Jack Fletcher. Hey buddy, how are you doing? Huge

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Speaker 1: huge shorter day? So um, one of my favorite people

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Speaker 1: on Twitter is uh Ben mink Witz at ben MANK

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Speaker 1: seventy seven. He's the host of Turner Classic Movies. He uh,

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Speaker 1: he knows a lot about sports. He knows a lot

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Speaker 1: about betting. Um comes from a family of Hollywood royalty

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Speaker 1: that also knows a lot about betting, and so I

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Speaker 1: had asked him to come on the pod to talk

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Speaker 1: about like a summer betting movie for our summer betting

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Speaker 1: movie series that I'm announcing right now. So the first

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Speaker 1: one is Ony Mahoney and he's gonna come on later

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Speaker 1: in the show and talk about it. But before that,

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Speaker 1: we've got mat more talking NBA because is there anything

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Speaker 1: going on in the NBA? Uh? Not much right, finals

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Speaker 1: are over, so just get ready for next October. Just

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Speaker 1: really two days. They gave me two days, man, two days.

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Speaker 1: Here's Matt Moore from the senior writer for the NBA. So, Maddie,

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Speaker 1: two days. So the Lakers pull the trigger on the

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Speaker 1: trade for Anthony Davis giving up basically their entire roster

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Speaker 1: and covered full of draft picks. I mean, is this

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Speaker 1: as good a deal as New Orleans could have gotten

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Speaker 1: done for this? I mean it's hard to imagine they

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Speaker 1: do better. Yeah, I think once Jason Tatum was off

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Speaker 1: the board, this is the best way we're gonna get.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting to see how this worked out if

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Speaker 1: you go back to February and when the first trade

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Speaker 1: request kind of came out publicly from Rich Paul the

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Speaker 1: same day, Chris Haynes, who has reported on all sorts

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Speaker 1: of man or the things with Clutched Sports, also reported

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Speaker 1: that Anthony Davis was not interested in going to Boston

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Speaker 1: because Kyrie Irving may not be returning, and so like

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Speaker 1: there's this feedback loop of Kyrie doesn't want to come back,

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Speaker 1: so they can't go. So maybe a D doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to go there, and so they can't go get a

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Speaker 1: D because they may not have Kyrie, and there's this

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Speaker 1: negative feedback loop. So once Boston was out, you were

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Speaker 1: trying to get a one year rental offer from all

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Speaker 1: of these other teams to take a shot like the Raptors,

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Speaker 1: but no team could really afford to give up what

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Speaker 1: Toronto have, which was an all star um in bar

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Speaker 1: de Rosen and a young prospect. They didn't have the

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Speaker 1: kind of assets that they needed in order to get

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Speaker 1: that done. So the Lakers really were the last remaining

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Speaker 1: kind of team, and the Lakers were so desperate that

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Speaker 1: they gave up control over the next the jillion years

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Speaker 1: of draft control, including really favorable protections for the Pelicans,

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Speaker 1: like one of the pixes, it has to be top eight,

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Speaker 1: otherwise it defers to the next year unprotected. Like all

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Speaker 1: the protections are in the Pelicans favor. Um, they came

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Speaker 1: out well in this. Especially if you're shorting the Lakers stock,

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Speaker 1: if you're saying, especially after Lebron leaves, they're not going

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Speaker 1: to be a contender, you're setting yourself up for a

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Speaker 1: potential windfall between the years of two thousand and twenty

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Speaker 1: three and two thousand and twenty six. Um. And that's

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Speaker 1: right when Zion Williamson is gonna be coming up on

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Speaker 1: you know, his prime. So I think, all in all

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Speaker 1: of an awesome deal for the Pelicans. All right, So

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Speaker 1: you wrote a story, a few stories, but in the

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Speaker 1: aftermath of the trade, analyzing the Pelicans prospects, and writing

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Speaker 1: about why you thought this was was a pretty good

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Speaker 1: deal for them, despite Ingram's failings, despite despite a Lonzo

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Speaker 1: Balls failings. Give us your take on season win totals

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Speaker 1: for the Pelicans as they stand. I'll be over a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's in the low thirties. I think I looked at

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Speaker 1: if you go back in the number one pick um,

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Speaker 1: since we've got data, and it goes back until really

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Speaker 1: you're looking at at an eight and five, which isn't awesome,

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Speaker 1: but a good enough record with a lot of weird

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Speaker 1: situations in there. Obviously you got like Anthony Bennett's and

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Speaker 1: the Calves traded one of the picks of the Lebron deal, etcetera. UM,

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Speaker 1: but you've got, especially when you look at the transcendent guys,

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Speaker 1: the guys that are really transformative for their teams, the

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Speaker 1: level of Ian Williamson is expected to be at the

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Speaker 1: next level. UM. I think that gives you an indication,

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Speaker 1: a better indication of koind of what this is going

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Speaker 1: to be. And now those teams both went over Lebron

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Speaker 1: and Anthony Davis's teams both went over in their first years.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good sign for Zion that you're

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Speaker 1: looking at a team that's gonna have talent out the box.

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Speaker 1: They've got Drew Holiday doing not moving through Holiday. Uh,

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Speaker 1: They're they've got a good coach and Alvin Genter who

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Speaker 1: they just signed an extension, so their stability there. They've

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Speaker 1: got a world of options, Like they're currently shopping the

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Speaker 1: number four pick, and there's a bunch of teams and

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Speaker 1: conversations for that. Um so they're gonna have an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to upgrade, either with a veteran or getting multiple assets.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a good possibility that the Pelicans are

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Speaker 1: gonna run kind of in the middle range. Um there.

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Speaker 1: I'm also very high on taking these teams that are

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Speaker 1: not the worst of the worst, but kind of not

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Speaker 1: really good, not five hundred, because of the fact that

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna see so much load management next

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Speaker 1: season that a lot of the top teams are gonna

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Speaker 1: get caught. So that's another reason why I'm really high

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Speaker 1: on the Pelicans over right now, even though the numbers

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Speaker 1: really early, considering we haven't hit free agency yet. God,

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Speaker 1: that is fascinating to be projecting basically end of season

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Speaker 1: and sort of middle of season wins based on something

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Speaker 1: the Raptors did this year to make Kauai more effective

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Speaker 1: in the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, look, you know, we

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Speaker 1: just saw we saw Kevin Durant go down with the

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Speaker 1: major and Urie saw Klaie Thompson, and we saw a

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Speaker 1: bunch of guys that were just banged up and didn't

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Speaker 1: really have the stamina, and he saw Kauai has come

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Speaker 1: out of the playoffs as definably the best player in

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Speaker 1: the league and he was on the load management program

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Speaker 1: of sixty games. I just think that that's gonna have

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Speaker 1: a ripple down effects where teams are gonna start looking

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Speaker 1: at it and saying, can we get If you look

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Speaker 1: at even this year standings the Bucks, we're the top

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Speaker 1: team and they only we're only scraping sixty wins. We're

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Speaker 1: used to see it in several teams hit in the

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Speaker 1: high fifties. We didn't see that as much this year.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna see that. You think even more next year

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Speaker 1: where teams are gonna say, look, we can get by

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Speaker 1: at fifty wins. We can get We're gonna be in

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Speaker 1: conversations for a four seed. If we get the two,

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Speaker 1: we will be within range, and so can we swop

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Speaker 1: off enough games in the interim to be able to

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Speaker 1: get there and get these guys and rest. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's going to sacrifice a lot of those those

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Speaker 1: kind of wins. We're gonna see the left panking. So

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Speaker 1: I think that the top teams are gonna be time

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Speaker 1: dragged down. I think the lower tier teams are going

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Speaker 1: to kind of be pulled up a little bit by

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Speaker 1: the availability of teams that aren't playing their stars. So, Maddie,

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Speaker 1: we've got the draft on Thursday. We've already heard a

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Speaker 1: bunch of rumors out today that maybe the Pelicans are

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Speaker 1: trying to trade up to the two spot to take

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Speaker 1: r J. Barrett, that the Hawks are trying to move

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Speaker 1: up into the three spot and give away eight and

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Speaker 1: ten to the Nicks. What's the next domino to fall here?

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Speaker 1: I think that the Pills are are likely to make

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Speaker 1: a place. I think know and Griffin, I think that

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Speaker 1: he's gonna target trying to get multiple return assets on

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Speaker 1: the four. I think he's more likely to take a

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Speaker 1: team um that's in conversations. Kevin O'Connor from the Ringing

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Speaker 1: Report that the Pacers are in conversations with him and

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Speaker 1: they've got a lot of young talent that they can't

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Speaker 1: really make all fit and they might be looking for

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Speaker 1: a major upgrade into that fourth spot uh take to

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Speaker 1: take Darlins, So that makes a lot of sense for

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Speaker 1: both sides. He's gonna look and try and get a

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Speaker 1: value player in terms of a rotation guy and maybe

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Speaker 1: a move back. The Hawks, I think are there as well.

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Speaker 1: I also just I gotta tell you if there's a

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Speaker 1: prop out there for trade, and we'll have that probably

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Speaker 1: by Thursday, for a number of trades in the first round.

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Speaker 1: Over under, I'm gonna hit the over pretty hard because

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Speaker 1: every team I've talked to has said, yeah, no, like

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Speaker 1: we're we're looking up, we're looking down, and it's more

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Speaker 1: so than most years. Most years they're like, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're sploring on options what we do, Like you're in

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Speaker 1: conversations and you're trying to do it, but so many

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Speaker 1: teams are trying to move in. So many teams are

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Speaker 1: trying to move out. The Thunder are trying to clear salaries,

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Speaker 1: so they're offering up their pick. The Nuggets are trying

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Speaker 1: to get in to try and acquire a pick to

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Speaker 1: maybe make a move for a rotation guy to trade

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Speaker 1: him back. Down again. There's just I think there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a lot of movement on Draft night within this draft,

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Speaker 1: because this draft isn't good enough to where everybody's like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I gotta keep my spot. The biggest story we've had

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Speaker 1: in the past week is about the Lakers odds to

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Speaker 1: win the NBA title, which had been shrinking as sort

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Speaker 1: of the rumors around Anthony Davis swirled and then it

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Speaker 1: went chaotic when um, when he actually was traded. Ravel

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Speaker 1: had a great story about Darren. Ravel had a great

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Speaker 1: story about the better who put ten grand down on

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Speaker 1: the Lakers to win the title. Uh, seven minutes for

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Speaker 1: the trade happened, and the best quote in the story

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Speaker 1: is it was clearly done with knowledge, which came from

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Speaker 1: the bookmaker, you know, who was indicating, yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: a better who usually knows things and made this bad

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Speaker 1: twenty seven minutes before the trade happened, before anybody else

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Speaker 1: knew what was going on. What do you make of that?

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Speaker 1: What do you make the Lakers and sort of the

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Speaker 1: influence of rumor and then the the appearance of fact

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Speaker 1: that moved these odds so aggressively. We've seen this before.

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Speaker 1: The raptors started moving last year. UM, their their odds

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Speaker 1: started moving dramatically right before the Kawhi Leonard trade. UM

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Speaker 1: we saw moved beforehand on when they were close to

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Speaker 1: a deal of Phoenix and that wound up not working out.

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Speaker 1: So I think something to keep in mind is the

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Speaker 1: media stuff that comes out is all with a purpose.

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Speaker 1: I try and to remind everyone in this that every

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Speaker 1: leak that you get in the media is done with

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Speaker 1: a purpose. Somebody is saying I want this information out

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Speaker 1: there for whatever reason. They may be exchanged for intel.

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Speaker 1: That happens a lot, but for the most part, mostly

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Speaker 1: information especially on trades and stuff like that, is done

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Speaker 1: with a purpose to try and exert pressure, either from

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Speaker 1: the agents or from the team or from the other

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Speaker 1: team or whoever. UM. But that also means that this

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Speaker 1: information is out there these teams. Some teams are iron clads.

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Speaker 1: Some teams really are that quiet. UM the Spurs are

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Speaker 1: an example of a team that's even though that one

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Speaker 1: got out, I'm pretty sure that one got out from

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Speaker 1: the other side or from the agency. UM the Thunder

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Speaker 1: are pretty locked down. But most of these teams are

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Speaker 1: pretty casual and the information will get out, and oftentimes

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Speaker 1: minority ownership That's where I always wonder about these things

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Speaker 1: is most of these teams don't have only one owner.

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Speaker 1: It's minority ownership groups to own a large stake of

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Speaker 1: these and that's a lot of people that aren't day

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Speaker 1: to day that like being involved with an NBA team

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Speaker 1: and like being able to talk about what they're involved in.

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Speaker 1: And those of the areas where I think that the

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Speaker 1: information probably gets out the betting market. I think, especially

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Speaker 1: as there's so much more attention paid and these markets

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Speaker 1: become volatile, I think we're going to see a lot

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Speaker 1: more of this of the market telegraphing major moves in

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Speaker 1: the NBA, more so than even what we're gonna hear

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Speaker 1: from some reporters, because those reporters are being used tactically.

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Speaker 1: You know, Maddie Chad mentioned the uh, the the odds

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Speaker 1: of the Lakers winning the championship and how now they're

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Speaker 1: the favorite. That just seems insane to me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know they've added Anthony Davis and they've got Lebron

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Speaker 1: and Kyle Kuzma, and that's about it. I mean, how

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Speaker 1: are the Houston Rockets not the favorite here? I mean

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Speaker 1: for the last two years, three years, Golden State has

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Speaker 1: been the only impediment to them probably at least winning

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Speaker 1: one of those championships. How are the Rockets with the

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Speaker 1: team they have? Not the favorite here pretty preacher like,

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Speaker 1: I'm with you, UM, I think it's weird to say

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Speaker 1: that the guy that one MVP two years ago that's

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Speaker 1: gonna be runner up this year, James harden Um. They're

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Speaker 1: gonna return a core mostly intact. They're also a front

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Speaker 1: office that has proven that they're going to be aggressive

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Speaker 1: like they are. They're out there and talk with a

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Speaker 1: lot of their guys, including Glint Capella and Eric Gordon,

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Speaker 1: two valuable players on the market that they're willing to

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Speaker 1: talk about making moves for. UM. Those are guys that

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Speaker 1: can fetch upgrades and they've got stable coaching. Even though

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Speaker 1: Mike D'Antoni situation is what his contract that makes you

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Speaker 1: a little uneasy. I don't think he's going anywhere this year. UM.

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Speaker 1: They match up with all of the perspective contenders in

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Speaker 1: the West, like the Nuggets. If you look at them

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Speaker 1: and say, well about Nuggets, the Nuggets can't be Houston

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Speaker 1: in a matchup situation. They can't do and we saw

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Speaker 1: this year it's all about matchups. Um Portland's another team

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Speaker 1: can't do it. We'll see how the Lakers fill out

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Speaker 1: their roster. But the point I made in the calum

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Speaker 1: I had on their title odds was, even you're gonna

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Speaker 1: bet l A you don't do it now, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: get much better number when they start off eight and

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Speaker 1: seven in November when they struggled, because it's a totally

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Speaker 1: new team. But we got to see how this team

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Speaker 1: fills out it's roster. I'm with you. I think Houston

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Speaker 1: is you're gonna get money, like you're getting a great

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Speaker 1: number on them, and they're only gonna go down. I

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Speaker 1: think if we get close to the beginning of the season,

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Speaker 1: I think that that Lakers number is going to go up,

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Speaker 1: getting much better value, especially once we get in season.

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Speaker 1: If you have faith in Lebron and Anthony Davis, wait

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Speaker 1: and suffer through the kind of struggles early and that's

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Speaker 1: when I think you're gonna get the best value. But

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Speaker 1: that's what it makes future adds interesting. They're not reflective

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Speaker 1: of anything in the court. They are only reflective of

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Speaker 1: activity in the market. Yeah, yeah, and the Lakers that

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Speaker 1: we've seen this consistently that the Lakers throw all of

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Speaker 1: this askew because of you know, I think in part

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Speaker 1: because of the proximity of Vegas to Los Angeles, uh

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Speaker 1: and the number of residents that live there or split

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Speaker 1: time there. But just in general, the Lakers are we

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Speaker 1: see them consistently generating way more action and moving and

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Speaker 1: getting odds way closer than they should. Um. I was

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Speaker 1: up yesterday. They were the fifth most profitable team to

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Speaker 1: bet against straight up last year, and that was after

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Speaker 1: the book started just adjusting um to the fact that

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Speaker 1: they were terrible. So they they've just consistently been a

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Speaker 1: team that you can fade because of the Lakers effect

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Speaker 1: of everyone believing way too much in them based on

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Speaker 1: the brand. Maddie, what's the latest you're hearing about the

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Speaker 1: big free agents out there? I mean we're hearing Kyrie, Irving, Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: Kevin Durant, who the hell knows, um Kawhi Leonard you

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Speaker 1: know up in the air. Well, what are you hearing

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Speaker 1: about these guys? Kyrie has been around like that. The

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn noise has been around for months and I didn't

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Speaker 1: report it because I couldn't get enough nailed down on it,

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Speaker 1: But like that was something that was circulating back in

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Speaker 1: like March. In March, that was a conversation that was

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Speaker 1: being had was, you know, his dad really likes Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of noise about Brooklyn. And I

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Speaker 1: said that not to be like, oh I knew it

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Speaker 1: the whole time, but just that he hasn't. If I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing that kind of stuff, then it's it's so out

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Speaker 1: there that everyone's kind of known. And the Boston Globe

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Speaker 1: got it already, the Boston Herold rather, they've already got that.

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Speaker 1: He's pretty much committed um to Brooklyn. Now, there's been

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Speaker 1: some weird stuff with that over the last since the

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Speaker 1: Anthony gave his trade. There was a movement toward maybe

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Speaker 1: he's going to change his mind and go to the Lakers,

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Speaker 1: but then that's moved backwards in the other direction and

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Speaker 1: it continues to be a feeling that he's going to

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Speaker 1: go there. Um, the Clippers. I checked in again everyone

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Speaker 1: I've talked to you that has any sort of thoughts

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Speaker 1: on Kauai. Um, they still feel like the Clippers are

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Speaker 1: the ones that there's gonna be two meetings. There are

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Speaker 1: gonna be a meeting with the Clippers and meeting with

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Speaker 1: the Raptors. And those are the only two meetings that

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Speaker 1: are gonna matter. Um, and there's uh. While there's been

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Speaker 1: a growing sense that the Raptors that put themselves in

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Speaker 1: good position, they're not the favorite, that it's really as

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Speaker 1: a coin flip between l A and Toronto until those

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Speaker 1: meetings go down. And then the big one I think

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Speaker 1: this morning was, you know, Al Horford opted out, and

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Speaker 1: while I think that he wants to return to Boston,

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Speaker 1: I I just wonder what Boston's gonna do because they

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Speaker 1: have so many different options that they can go in,

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Speaker 1: but they're also facing a really bad situation having Loft

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Speaker 1: out and Anthony Davis and losing Kyrie. There's no really,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions I've talked to you from

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Speaker 1: people in the league about what's Aims gonna do. Is

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Speaker 1: he gonna go all in or is he gonna maybe

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Speaker 1: scale back a little bit and bill of the for

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Speaker 1: a little a few years down the line. All Right,

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Speaker 1: So my last question is based on all the speculation,

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Speaker 1: based on the draft, based on what we know now.

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Speaker 1: If I'm making a bet, a future's bet today, who

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Speaker 1: am I making it on? Where's the value be great?

324
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Speaker 1: You're getting great numbers on the Warriors to win the title.

325
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Speaker 1: You're getting You're getting just incredible odds on a team

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Speaker 1: that still is going to return. Kellie Thompson is going

327
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Speaker 1: to be back by March. A. C L injuries just

328
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 1: aren't what they used to be there no longer, these

329
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Speaker 1: season altering injuries, they're just it's a long time recovery.

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Speaker 1: It's a major surgery, but the science has gotten so

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Speaker 1: good around it. He's going to be backed by by

332
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Speaker 1: probably All Star around then, if not the beginning of April,

333
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Speaker 1: and they will still be in position to make a

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Speaker 1: run as long as they're in the playoffs. Are you

335
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 1: gonna feel good? Especially? I think that Myers is going

336
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 1: to go in and he's gonna just he's going to

337
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,960
Speaker 1: improve the bench knowing what they've got to do. You're

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Speaker 1: still gonna have Steph Curry, You're still gonna have Draymond

339
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Speaker 1: Green most likely. Um, You're still gonna have all these

340
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Speaker 1: options even without k D. I know we just saw

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Speaker 1: most of the Raptors, but think about how close they were,

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Speaker 1: Like Danny Green lost the ball. If Steph makes that

343
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,239
Speaker 1: three were likely going to a Game seven, and who

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Speaker 1: knows what happens, then that's how close they were with

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Speaker 1: Katie playing a quarter of that entire series. So to me,

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Speaker 1: with the number that you're getting at the Warriors at

347
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Speaker 1: that ten at some places, I think that you're getting

348
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Speaker 1: the best value on Golden State. I think it's gonna

349
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Speaker 1: really freak havoc with the Warriors and Steph Curry and

350
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Speaker 1: so it's gonna take them longer get the standing. It's

351
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Speaker 1: not gonna be as happy San Francisco traffic. That's where

352
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Speaker 1: you're going. It's gonna get him done. Okay, good analysis.

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Speaker 1: All right, Man Moore, thank you, thanks for coming on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. Next up, we're bringing on Ben mako WIT's

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about a a gambling movie, A great

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Speaker 1: gambling movie. Where was it? Dude? Spoiler? Dude stinks I'm

357
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Speaker 1: setting it up. I finished it alright, as promised. I

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Speaker 1: have been looking forward to this guest for a very

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Speaker 1: long time, and then I finally had the courage to

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Speaker 1: d m him on Twitter and say, hey, will you come?

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Speaker 1: It's true, it's true. Will you come on the podcast? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Mr Ben Mankowitz, host of Turner Classic Movies. I should

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Speaker 1: warn your your on with me and my co host

364
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Speaker 1: black Jack Fletcher. Hey, ben, Hey, it's very possible. Go ahead.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm well, you're very low threshold for courage. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you you wrote the best gambling book ever written. Well,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Uh. And it's true. I also that

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Speaker 1: that is a true statement. Uh. And as is the

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Speaker 1: fact I have a low threshold for courage. Um. But

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Speaker 1: of course you are the host of Turner Classic Movies.

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Speaker 1: You are the face of Turner Classic Movies. Um. You

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Speaker 1: have an incredible Twitter feed at ben MANK seventy seven.

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Speaker 1: And you also know quite a bit, quite a bit

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Speaker 1: about sports, quite a bit about sports betting. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: so we decided you were going to come on and

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Speaker 1: we were gonna have an informal summer movie sports betting series.

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Speaker 1: And I asked you to come on and we could

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Speaker 1: sort of, you know, play a little bit of what

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Speaker 1: you do on your television network and um review like

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Speaker 1: in an older movie. And so you suggested a movie

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Speaker 1: Owning Mahoney as sort of one of the better sports

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Speaker 1: betting movies. But before we get to that, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about that. Before we get to that, UM,

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Speaker 1: I do feel like you need to explain a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your family history because you grew up literally

386
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Speaker 1: almost at the intersection of Hollywood royalty and political royalty.

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Speaker 1: Explained to Guy, I suppose that's true. I grew up

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Speaker 1: in d C. I was sort of unaware of the

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Speaker 1: Hollywood royalty part. I knew the family's history. I just

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Speaker 1: didn't know that it was a how big a deal

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Speaker 1: it was to people out here. But first I grew

392
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Speaker 1: up in Washington, d C. My dad was a big

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Speaker 1: deal inside the Democratic Party in Washington. He had been

394
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Speaker 1: Robert Kennedy's press secretary. Before that, he'd been Latin American

395
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Speaker 1: director at the Peace Corps. That's where he met the Senator.

396
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Speaker 1: Went to work for him in the Senate office, then

397
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 1: was the press secretary for his campaign. Then he was

398
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Speaker 1: George McGovern's sort of political director, co campaign manager with

399
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Speaker 1: Carry Hart in nineteen seventy two, ran for Congress himself

400
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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six and lost or seventy four, No,

401
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 1: nobody lost in seventy four seventy six and uh And

402
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Speaker 1: then was president of National Public Radio for five or

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Speaker 1: six years, and his father, Herman Mankel, wrote the screenplay

404
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Speaker 1: for for Citizen Kane, and his younger brother Joe Mancha,

405
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Speaker 1: was my father's uncle, my great uncle, four oscars in

406
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Speaker 1: two years for a Letter to Three Wives and all

407
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Speaker 1: about Eve nineteen and nineteen fifty and you know, Cleopatra

408
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Speaker 1: no way out a number of really one of the

409
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: great sort of writer directors of the of the nineteen fifties,

410
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Speaker 1: and had been a producer in Hollywood before famously introduced

411
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Speaker 1: Spencer Tracy to Katherine Heppard, uh, laying the groundwork for

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Speaker 1: all their films together and there and their and their

413
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 1: lifelong romance. But my father, who could have been a

414
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Speaker 1: great screenwriter, he he didn't think that was a serious

415
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Speaker 1: way to make a living. Neither did his father. My

416
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 1: grandfather was sort of always ashamed of the living he made.

417
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Speaker 1: So my my dad sort of uh went in a

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Speaker 1: different direction. Was for some time a entertainment lawyer in

419
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Speaker 1: Los Angeles, but really represented Steve McQueen, James Mason, Jay

420
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Speaker 1: Silverheel's Panto used to come to the house, my brother

421
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 1: tells me in costume. Um, I was just you know

422
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Speaker 1: how for my brother, like eight years old, seven years old,

423
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Speaker 1: Kanto knocks on the door. It's pretty great, probably younger

424
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Speaker 1: than that. And then uh, but then I got serious.

425
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Speaker 1: You know though, when when when John Kennedy was elected,

426
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Speaker 1: it seemed like this was a new generation being called

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Speaker 1: to serve us. And uh, that's how my dad got

428
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 1: involved in the Peace Corps and sort of from their

429
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 1: politics was his life. So that's amazing. And I don't

430
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: know how anybody could ever come after you on Twitter

431
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 1: about anything regarding your opinion on old time movies given

432
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: the credibility you're bringing to the conversation so well, and everybody,

433
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: everybody's gotten everybody's got an opinion. And then many times

434
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 1: they I mean I love those arguments. Um, so yeah,

435
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: I mean believe me. And you know, it's look movies,

436
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: and there are people who know a great deal more

437
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: than I do. Um, you know they just uh that's uh.

438
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: When you know people care about this stuff, they get

439
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: invested in it. Um. And you know, I I love

440
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: knowing a lot about it. But I love being a

441
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: broadcaster too, So that's sort of my that's the joy

442
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: of this job. You know what. Then I'm gonna bring

443
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: one of those arguments right into your kitchen right now.

444
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 1: Tell me how you think about this. But Citizen Kane

445
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: a little overrated, doesn't quite hold up. Okay, Well, two things. One,

446
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: I mean it can't be underrated. I mean, first, it's

447
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: just on on logic a loan. When people consider it

448
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: the best movie ever, nobody's gonna be like, I think

449
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 1: it's a tad underrated. No, I think I think it's overrated.

450
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: I think I don't know, I don't know the best

451
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: movie ever overrated. So and here's an argument that I

452
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: hate that you just made. But I I many people

453
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: make it. Um. First of all, it does hold up.

454
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 1: That's an insane thing to say. But the mere argument

455
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: of whether it holds up the mirror like, it wasn't

456
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: made to hold up right. It was made to make

457
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: a point then. And by the way, if you pay

458
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: attention to politics in this country, what is it fifty

459
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: nine and nineteen seventy eight years later, I'd say it was.

460
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: You know, there's some presciency. It is early reminiscent of

461
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. I will say there were several moments I

462
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: watched it not that long ago. It um. I think

463
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: it's I think it's brilliant. I think there are a

464
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 1: number of other brilliant movies. Is not my favorite movie ever,

465
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: But I would certainly tell people who wanted to sort

466
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: of to start from nowhere and grab an understanding of

467
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: of of classic Hollywood is the important five or so

468
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: five six seven films in classic Hollywood. I would definitely

469
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: include Citizen Kane is one of the movies they they

470
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: ought to watch. So how do you get into sports

471
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: and sports betting? Why is that a part of your life?

472
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: So Herman gambles a lot. He played poker with Bogart

473
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: and they drank and they gambled and and and that group,

474
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: not just Bogart, but they and uh so he'd always

475
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: gambled in brag had going to the track. And and

476
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: my uncle Don, my father's older brother, who wrote a

477
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: great episode of Star Trek called The Trial, and uh

478
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: wrote the pilot for Perry Mason and was Oscar nominated

479
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: for a Susan Hayward film screenplay cal I Want to Live.

480
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: But mostly what Don was a gambler. He was also

481
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: president of the Writer's Guild. But again mostly what Don

482
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: was very serious gambler. He played in that I get weekly,

483
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, bi weekly, uh Hollywood poker game that

484
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: Gabe Kaplan played in. So that was oh yeah, yeah,

485
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: yeah yeah regularly. So that he was Don was in

486
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: a part of the fabric of that game and it

487
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: cost him a great deal of money over the years.

488
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: But on Sunday mornings when I was a boy growing

489
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: up in d C so like cut say seventy seventy

490
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: seventy seven, Don would call on Sunday mornings, or my

491
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: dad would call him and they would go over the games,

492
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: so the football games to pick during the fall, and

493
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: Dad would pick three or four games that Don would

494
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: bet on with his bookie out in l A. And

495
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: what I knew was my dad put twenty two dollars

496
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: on each game that he liked. Right if he felt crazy,

497
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: he might bet forty four dollars on one game, but

498
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: he'd go over with Don and donal would included in

499
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: his best Don it turns out was betting, you know,

500
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. But I would go to the other

501
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: phone and I would listen at age seven, eight nine,

502
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: and my dad, not sneaking around, my dad knew I

503
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: was listening, and then we talked about it. So I

504
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: at a very early age I understood, you know that

505
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: if the Eagles for three and a half point favorites

506
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: but they won by three, that that this was not

507
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: something to celebrate. But for Dad, it was always fun

508
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: and he you know, he didn't think anything of risking

509
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: twenty dollars and sharing that with his son. I think

510
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: in later years he came to understand that maybe he

511
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: had unleashed something. Yeah, it's funny, I have this. Uh.

512
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: I had this conversation with my kids all the time.

513
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: They know all about sports betting and they know that

514
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: I do it, and they know the other day that

515
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: I was watching Gary Woodland and I was winning quite

516
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: a bit of money on Gary Woodland because I bet

517
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: him at seventy one before the tournament began, and um,

518
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: you know, and they know what it means to win

519
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: by seven when the spread a seven and a half,

520
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: and they now know how to ask like do who

521
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: do you want to win? And by how much? Or

522
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: who you want to lose and by how few? And um,

523
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: you know. It's like last summer when it was the

524
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: World Cup in France one or uh, I was like, wow,

525
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: look at France advance and my kid and I like

526
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: made a fifty dollar bet on it, and I'd like

527
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: to watch the game because yeah, we just won fifty bucks.

528
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: Like he wasn't even thinking about like the excitement of

529
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: the game anymore. Now he was only thinking about the money.

530
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 1: It is a great thing to explain to your six

531
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: year old daughter and five year old daughter and four

532
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: year old daughter, not that I have three, but I'm

533
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: just her progression. And so she'll say, as I'm watching

534
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: a baseball game now, but you know, months ago watching basketball,

535
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: and she'll say, who are you rooting for? And I'll say,

536
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, usually team and white, a team in blue.

537
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: But you know, now she's gotten who we're rooting for.

538
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: I go defense, right, what he means nobody can score

539
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: the two mornings, Kenny, we cannot have another run. It's

540
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: amazing to me there have been no great sports betting

541
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: movies like this. This was part of the problem we

542
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: land on our dilemma with Owning the Honey. And I

543
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: must confess that when we talk my memory because the

544
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: line that stands out in the movie, the line that

545
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: best represents that movie to me, is a sports betting line.

546
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: But I thought in my head there was much more

547
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: sports gambling and owning money. Then as I rewatched it

548
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: then that it turns out there was right. So we

549
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: should set the scene a little bit like Owning Mahoney

550
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: is a movie that I think came out probably early

551
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: two thousand's starting to starting Philip Seymour Hoffman. And it

552
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: is about a Toronto banker who has a serious gambling

553
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: habit and uh, he is a big sports better but

554
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: he goes on sort of this month long gambling bender

555
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: between Atlantic City and Las Vegas and um and it's

556
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: sort of is about sort of his journey and what

557
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: happens and how it ends up. And I don't want

558
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: to sort of reveal everything before we get to the

559
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: conversations embezzling the money. Well, yes, he's embezzling the money. Um.

560
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: So why why does everyone talk about this movie? Well,

561
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: I think it's one of Philip Symour Hoffman's greatest performer

562
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: is And that is I realized what I'm saying when

563
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: I say that, because there really isn't a bad one. Um.

564
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: And I find that this one, which is super focused

565
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: on him, right, it really has less to do with

566
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: the gambling. In fact, we don't even see the cards

567
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: very often, right, we don't see the results of the

568
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: games except one. In fact, I watched three movies sort

569
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: of to prep for this because I got excited, so

570
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: I rewatched The Gambler and I also watched a movie

571
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: that even the title doesn't make any sense. Lay the

572
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: favorite um also based on based on a book, also

573
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: based on a book, right, although super loosely um. So Uh,

574
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: there's just there's very little gambling action, and there is

575
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: this intense focus on addiction. I mean, what Owning Mahoney

576
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: really is is an addiction movie more than anything else.

577
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: And I think if you look at it as an

578
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: addiction movie, then I think you can recognize one of

579
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: the great addiction movies because he is Uh. Roger Ebert

580
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: points out in his review, which I did not pick

581
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: up on but was clear as soon as I read

582
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: it afterwards, that you know, often never even you know,

583
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: he didn't even look at the camera. It's like he's soup.

584
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: He you know, there's a degree. He has a degree.

585
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: He's carrying this shame sort of with him, and he's

586
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: chasing winnings so that he can lose UM. And he's

587
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: again embezzling so he has money to lose UM. And

588
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: I just really fully related to fully related to to

589
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: to Hoffman's plight and his desperation and his narrow mindedness,

590
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: to the way he ignores his girlfriend fiance when she's

591
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: sort of comes to the table, and he can't even

592
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: he can't even look up she getting dragged away back

593
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: from security and he won't even look at her because

594
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: he's at the crafts table and he's on a run.

595
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: So that I think it's why it's great. Um As

596
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: for the sports in it, don't make it. They're not

597
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: even really in it, even though there's that one great,

598
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: great line where he's so frantic he's got to go

599
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: to a meeting and he says, just give me all

600
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: the home teams in the National League and all the

601
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: away teams in the American League for a thousand dollars each,

602
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: and he hangs up the phone. I did love that.

603
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: I love that. And then like he tried to do

604
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: it again with horse racing and baseball and the bookmakers like, no,

605
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: I'm not taking his money. This is disrespectful to my business, right,

606
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: I love that. I don't do that. What do you

607
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: mean all the home teams, all the ways exactly, this

608
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: is a serious thing. And so I liked that there

609
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: was in this humanity for the bookmaker, both in owning

610
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: Mahoney and and and pauls Orvino in the Gambler, they

611
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: both sort of you know, uh, like you know, you

612
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: don't imagine a bookmaker saying, hey, man, take a deep breath,

613
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: you're sure you want to do this? Yeah, that would

614
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: have been a better movie to go with The Gambler. Well, well,

615
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: I mean I think that. I think they're both great,

616
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: but the Gambler, I'm not. I didn't mean to knock

617
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: the Gambler. By the way, let's be clear, the original

618
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: the original, the original, honestly the original. Like when I

619
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: was writing the Odds, um uh, we watched so many

620
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: The main character, Alan Boston is such a huge movie

621
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: buff in a seventies movie buff that we watched like

622
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: three or four movies that that he felt defined sort

623
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: of what it was like to live his life. The

624
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: Gambler was one of them. Um, what was that one

625
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: with Elliot Goold? California? California another really good one. Yeah,

626
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: he loved California Sweet. And then for some reason, like

627
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: we watched Gene Hackman in the movie where he's sort

628
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: of always using the listening devices. What was that conversation?

629
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: Another one? Right, that's the movie Francis Ford Coppola made

630
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: in between the Godfather and The Godfather Part two. It's

631
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: the greatest sandwich movie of all time. It was an

632
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: amazing movie. Had nothing to be gambling, I don't know,

633
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: but but he's also likely to. Alan's a strange guy.

634
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: The thing you just made me potentially appreciate owning the

635
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: hone even more because you laid out a couple of

636
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: things and and black Check is right, like, this is

637
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: about a guy who's leading a double life. And so

638
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: he's a bank and it's a true story, by the way,

639
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: all based in a true story. He is a banker

640
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: in Toronto, like a mid level associate manager banker who's

641
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: really trusted and he's able to use that trust and

642
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: goodwill and sort of being a guy who um is

643
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: beloved at his bank to then take advantage the rules

644
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 1: and start withdrawing from the accounts that he manages. Uh.

645
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: And then he goes on these benders in Atlantic City

646
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: and and sort of one of these subplots is I

647
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: think this is why it's about called owning mahoney, is

648
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: these two competing properties, one in Atlantic City, one in Vegas,

649
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: but are really trying to own him as a white

650
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: and trying to compete for him as a whale. Um.

651
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: And there's one really sort of nefarious you know, a

652
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: c casino boss who is really trying to manipulate Mahoney

653
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: in ways that he doesn't even need to because mahone,

654
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: he is so driven to gamble as much as he

655
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: possibly can U one of the that's John Hurt, one

656
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: of the real great actors of his generation in a

657
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: very flashy role. Because let me just I want to

658
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: mention something that you just talked about. That that because

659
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that the things that most people

660
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if it if it counts us, but

661
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: you know I I do get the fantasy of I

662
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: go to Vegas and things work great and I'm winning.

663
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: The thing has really never happened that, you know, you

664
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: get all these extras, right that there's a that their

665
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: casino boss is going to give you a great suite,

666
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 1: right and upgrade you and you can show your friends

667
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: what a big shot you are, and you get free

668
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: dinner at the you know, at the great they offers

669
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: first the Japanese restaurant and maybe an Italian restaurant to

670
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: Mahoney in the movie, and they even bring a girl

671
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: for him. And he doesn't care about the room, he

672
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: doesn't care about the food, he doesn't care about the girl.

673
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: All he cares about is his addiction. All he cares

674
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: about is the obsession. When finally they talk about food,

675
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: there's a great moment. And the movies like I want

676
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: some ribs, no sauce and a coke. I guess you know,

677
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: if it doesn't matter, that's just sustance. Um, all he

678
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: wants to do his gamble. He doesn't even really change clothes.

679
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter whether there's a beautiful woman there. It

680
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the restaurant is, It doesn't matter how

681
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: great the room is. His buddy loves the room. But

682
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: he could care less. He doesn't. He just you know,

683
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: eventually he'll need knows he needs to sleep for four

684
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: hours before he goes back down in gambles. Then, I'm

685
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: curious to your take on something, because when Chad started

686
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: this conversation, he indicated that he didn't like the movie,

687
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: and to be honest, I really didn't love it either.

688
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: And you pointed out at the beginning of your comments

689
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,959
Speaker 1: by saying, it's a movie about addiction, not really about gamble,

690
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: And I think that's right. Do you think one of

691
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: the reasons why maybe the movie didn't do as well

692
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: as people had hoped in you know, in spite of

693
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: the fact that Philip symour Hoffman was as good as

694
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: he wasn't it is that it's not like your typical

695
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: addiction movie, and that he doesn't really have anything redeeming

696
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: about him. He doesn't seem to be trying to get help. Ever,

697
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: there's no even subtle nod to that. He just seems

698
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 1: to be very cold and detached and just an unlikable character. Yeah,

699
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I think that's a fair point.

700
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: I don't agree with it, but I definitely think it's

701
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: a fair point. I'm like the first ridiculous citizen game point. Um,

702
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: I can't believe this guy is still on the phone.

703
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: Uh no, I I you know, look, I mean this

704
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: is I guess, you know, revealing for me, and I'm

705
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: sure it's revealing for other gamblers. Though. Is that you

706
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: know he's he's not cruel, except there's one moment when

707
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: he yells at his friend for for what he perceives

708
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: as you know, uh, you know, as chilling hot streak. Um.

709
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: But he even makes that up to him. He comes

710
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: up to the room, he's like, you know, you know,

711
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: there's that look that says, I know I was on

712
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 1: an ass um. So I do identify with him. He's

713
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: never he is fully focused on the on the addiction. Yes,

714
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: he'd ever, but it wouldn't have been true. It would

715
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: have felt false if he'd had. He has these recognition

716
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: calls with many drivers his fiance like the boy, I

717
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: know I've let you down, but really he in the

718
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: throes of the addiction. That's all you can focus on. Um.

719
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: He won't bow, he won't steal from me. He doesn't

720
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: steal from her. He doesn't take money out of her pocket.

721
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: She even offers him like a grand total of three

722
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and he looks at her like, I'm not

723
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 1: sure you fully understand how much money I've I've lost

724
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: here your your retirement account is not going to help me.

725
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: So I did identify with him, but I think it's

726
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: a fair point. He doesn't do anything like, you know,

727
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: feed a homeless cat. You know. Um, he is solely

728
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: focused on satisfying his particular hunger. The uh. It's also

729
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: like to me, it felt like it was a small

730
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: independent movie. My wife and I have these fights all

731
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: the time on the popcorn guy like I want to

732
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: go see Will Smith. I want to go see a

733
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: big movie that has the highs and lows and all

734
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: the sort of superficial yet very visceral moments and like

735
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: has a real narrative to it. And my wife just

736
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: wants to go see the squid in the whale. Like

737
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: she just wants to, you know, pop into the middle

738
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: of someone's day, and like she doesn't care if there's

739
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: a beginning or an end. She just wants to live

740
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: in that moment. This to me was like a squid

741
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: in the whale for gambling. Like it didn't have any ups,

742
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: it didn't have any downs. It just had like the

743
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: attention the tension of him gambling, and uh, then exactly

744
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: what you thought would happened would happen, Like he got caught,

745
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: that's great, that's great, and that he knows he's gonna

746
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: get caught. Of course, he knows he's gonna get caught.

747
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: I definitely think it add downs, grang right upside. Um,

748
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, I think that that both those kinds of

749
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: movies enhance our enjoyment of the other. Um, you know,

750
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: I don't. I am certainly obviously, you know, I'm sort

751
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: of duty bound by my job to appreciate both types

752
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: of stories. Um, you know, and there's nothing. Uh, there

753
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: are few things as annoying as as sort of a

754
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: movie fan who won't allow themselves to be dazzled by

755
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: a successful big movie. There are a lot of money

756
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: is spent where they nailed it right, where it's good,

757
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: I mean, where it's bad, it's terrible. But when when

758
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: they really get it right in the kind of movie

759
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: that you describe that you like, Chad, that that's great,

760
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: and when people are like, oh, it's too you know,

761
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if you make it, well, then let's enjoy it,

762
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: let's celebrate it. But but I also think that there

763
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: is room for the squid in the way of gambling movies.

764
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: And uh, and I think that this this one, this

765
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: may well be this may well be it. I also

766
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: think it didn't you know, it doesn't do well because

767
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: gambling sports, like somebody with an alcohol addiction or a

768
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: heroin addiction, is identifiable, and there's a sense among the

769
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: audience that that an accepted sense that this is a disease,

770
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 1: right and the end you want to help these people.

771
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: I don't think we have that in general as a

772
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: society with gambling, that that is seen as a weakness.

773
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: Well just stop gambling, don't do it anymore like that

774
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: is not seen as the same level of addiction. It

775
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: doesn't engender the same kind of sympathy for you or

776
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: for your family. It feels selfish and indulgent. And I

777
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: think part of that is driven by the majority of

778
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: people not understanding the gambling world. So they're they're they're frequently,

779
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,439
Speaker 1: they're turned off by numbers. We live in a world

780
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: where people are are frequently. Many people are turned off

781
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: by numbers. Not the people listening to this podcast, clearly,

782
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: but you know many of us are turned off. That's

783
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: what we need. We need to make the great sports

784
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: Betting movie that isn't about addiction, but about the process

785
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: of sports betting and people who can do it and

786
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: do it well and lead dramatically interesting lives and they

787
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: happen to be sports bettors without it happen to be

788
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: about their addiction. But the thing of it is, though,

789
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to use one of my friends as an example.

790
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: Great I'm about to go home and see him this weekend.

791
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: We go on an annual baseball trip. We're going to Cleveland,

792
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: and he went to Brown and Georgetown Law School. It's

793
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: a very successful guy, he's smart, and he loves sports.

794
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: He's would have been the guy I have of my

795
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: friends who I who knows the second most amount about

796
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: sports in my And we go to Vegas every now

797
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 1: and then, and and well and and and if there's

798
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: a baseball game and I'm like, well, you know, I'm

799
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: gonna take the Indians there there minus against the Tigers, right,

800
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: And he still had every time he's like, well, so

801
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: what does that mean? And I'm like you, how do

802
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: you not We've been going for twenty years. How do

803
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: I still have to say? I mean, you got a

804
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 1: bet utter one hundred, but you better hundred, and the

805
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: Indians when you and then the Tigers when you one

806
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: D five? That's what the plus. They still don't get it,

807
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: like and there and he's smart and gambles, So it

808
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: doesn't connect for some people. And then some of these movies,

809
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: even Owning Mahoney, got it a little wrong. But lay

810
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: the Favorite, the language in lay the Favorite was like,

811
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 1: why would you make this movie unless you've loved gambling?

812
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: But these guys don't even know what they're talking about.

813
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: Half the time. They refer to the n C Double

814
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: A Tournament playoffs, and he uses the word playoffs regard

815
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: to the n A Tournament, right right exactly, um Ben,

816
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on the podcast. I enjoyed the

817
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: conversation more than I enjoyed the movie. Um. By the way,

818
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: let me stay real quick, you gotta go. But all

819
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: three of those movies, Lay the Favorite, which was horrible,

820
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 1: the Gambler, which is great, and I think Onie Mahoney

821
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: was great. All of them have dramatic moments that come

822
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: down to free throws. I know, I mean, I don't

823
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: remember Lay the Favorite, but that was actually a great

824
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: scene in the movie when Ony Mahoney, Uh, when Philip

825
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: Mohaffman is practically in the television on that last free throw,

826
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: and that is actually a moment where that does feel

827
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 1: like a gut punch, and that's you know, and that's

828
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: and that happened in the Georgetown game. I don't know

829
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: what the spread was. I tried to find, but James

830
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: Worthy after the Steel or that when Freddy Brown in

831
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: the past it he then missed those two free throws, um,

832
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: and they one by one. Um. And in the Gambler,

833
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: it's James con in the tub and Jerry West has

834
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: three to make two that's exactly right. Missed all three.

835
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 1: It's really great. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna watch next.

836
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to rewatch The Gambler next. That's gonna be

837
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: next in the summer movie series that I'm doing in

838
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: my house. That one you'll enjoy more, I'm certain. Ben

839
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 1: manko Witz, thank you so much for coming on. Thank

840
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: you for these suggestions. Thank you for the conversation. I

841
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: might have to have you come back on so we

842
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: can talk about The Gambler. Come on anytime. Thanks to

843
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: both of you for for having me appreciate it. Thank you, sir.

844
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: If you want to do this thing right for the

845
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 1: next movie, you have to invite me up to the

846
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: Mansion and Grantage and we watch it together. I'm not

847
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: inviting you anywhere. That's how we do it, all right.

848
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: This has been the Favorites from the Action Network. We're

849
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: gonna get out of here because we're keeping black Jack

850
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: up at this point. Thank you Matt Moore for coming

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Speaker 1: on giving us that Warriors, Raptors, Lakers Future odds breakdown.

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Speaker 1: Thank you to Ben Makewitz, host of Turn of Classic Movies,

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00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: for coming on. This has been the Favorites downloaded from

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00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, rate, subscribe, review, Radio dot Com, Slash, The

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00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: Action Network. Until next time, black Jack, What did you say?

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Speaker 1: I Love you,