1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. We don't want to 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: waste time. We want to get right to the Congressman. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: Mike Lawler is with us now, of course, the Republican 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: from New York seventeenth. We spent a lot of time 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 1: talking about everything from salt to yes government funding, and 6 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: here we are again, Congressman, thank you for joining us 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg TV and radio. The conventional wisdom is we 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: shut down after midnight, and I'm assuming you don't see 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: a way around it. What comes after the shutdown? 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately, it looks like we are barreling towards a 11 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: shutdown because Democrats like Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer have 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,319 Speaker 2: changed their position entirely on keeping the government funded and 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: passing clean crs. Whether it was Joe Biden or Donald Trump, 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 2: I have voted for every single CR to keep the 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 2: government open and funded while we negotiate a final appropriations package. 16 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 2: I think it is foolish to shut down. The government 17 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: is going to create chaos in the markets. It will 18 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: create chaos for the American people, especially those who rely 19 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 2: on the social safety net, border security, our military veterans, benefits, etc. 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: This is entirely unnecessary and does nothing to actually further 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 2: the work of the American people. It is pure political 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: posturing by my Democratic colleagues because they are not in 23 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: the majority, and from my vantage point, that is not 24 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: what you do. I was against it when Republicans wanted 25 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 2: to shut down the government, and I'm against it here 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 2: when Democrats want to do it. So we will see 27 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: what happens over these twelve hours. As you pointed out, 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 2: Republicans passed a clean cr through the House. The bill 29 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: is sitting in the Senate at the desk. It can 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: easily be taken back up right now and passed, and 31 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer refuses to do that, despite his many pronouncements 32 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: in years past about the need to pass clean crs 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: and not pound your fists and stomp your feet when 34 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: you don't get your way. 35 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: So, Congressman, I hear you on the future of a 36 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 3: potential clean CR. But do you see any room for 37 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 3: negotiations here when it does come to those expiring Obamacare 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 3: tax credits. We did hear from how Speaker Mike Johnson 39 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 3: in an interview this morning saying that there might be 40 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 3: some negotiating room, but that would have to happen after 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 3: a funding bill is passed, since the tax credits are 42 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 3: going to expire by the end of the year. 43 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 2: Correct, and I am one of several Republican members who 44 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: have signed on to legislation to extend the ACA subsidies 45 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 2: for a year. Remember these were put in place during 46 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 2: COVID to try and help those who were losing their 47 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: jobs or unemployed because the government was forcing businesses to 48 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 2: shut down. We don't want people to be unduly hurt, 49 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: obviously by healthcare premium increases, but to try and shut 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 2: the government down while negotiating some of these issues is foolish. 51 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: We can easily keep the government funded through November twenty first, 52 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: finalize all appropriations for fiscal year twenty six, and come 53 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: to an agreement on these ACA subsidies for the next 54 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 2: year or two. There's no reason to shut the government 55 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 2: down in the middle of those negotiations. 56 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: You wonder what would happen if if Mike Johnson said 57 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: exactly what you just said. Although maybe there's sole little 58 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: trust it doesn't matter right now, Congressman, But what should 59 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: come of these after we've been talking about these extensions 60 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: for some time now, everybody's become an expert on this 61 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: or so they think if this was a COVID era 62 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: a policy, should it be extended forever as Democrats suggest, 63 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: you just pointed out a year, should they come down? 64 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: Should be there be a gradual phasing out. What's the 65 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: long term on this? 66 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think again this is a negotiation and a 67 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: discussion to be had. I think many Republicans would like 68 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: to see an income limit on these subsidies. Again, these 69 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: were put in place during COVID. I think there's a 70 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: larger point though, which is if the Affordable Care Act 71 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: was supposed to reduce healthcare premiums, was supposed to increase access, 72 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: why is it not working as intended fifteen years later, 73 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: so much so that you need these subsidies to help people. Obviously, 74 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: there's a broader issue with health insurance costs in this country, 75 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: and I think that is something that Republicans and Democrats 76 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 2: should work on together to focus on how we reduce 77 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: overall costs. You saw the President today with the announcement 78 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: with respect to Pfizer and certain prescription drugs and being 79 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: able to purchase them at a much lower rate. That's 80 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: important when you look at the challenges facing the US 81 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: and Europe. Part of the problem with prescription drug costs 82 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 2: in America is that Americans are subsidizing Europeans with the 83 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: price controls that have long been put in place on 84 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: prescription drugs in Europe. So that is something that we 85 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 2: should all embrace reducing overall cost, but that's not something 86 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: that you shut the government down over and really harm 87 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: the very people that you're trying to help. 88 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 3: Well, sticking with this idea that higher drug costs are 89 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 3: a point of a political point on both sides of 90 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 3: the aisle, I also want to ask you about some 91 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 3: of the economic impacts here of a potential shutdown. You said, 92 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 3: of course on house finn services. Are analysts at Bloomberg 93 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,679 Speaker 3: Economics estimate that the unemployment rate could reach four point 94 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 3: seven percent in a shutdown. I'm wondering are the optics 95 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 3: going to be difficult to navigate here, considering there's already 96 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 3: concerns about the labor market. How are Republicans going to 97 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: message around this when we know that economic impacts could 98 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: really be one of those top top concerns and. 99 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: Priorities we've seen in shutdowns prior. For instance, the stock 100 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: market has generally grown the biggest concern has been on GDP. 101 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: We saw for Q two revision a three point eight 102 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 2: percent growth in GDP, which far exceeded what many prognosticators 103 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: we're claiming was going to happen in Q two. So 104 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 2: you know, certainly the economy is moving in the right direction. 105 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: We got the tax package across the finish line that 106 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 2: was critical for tax certainty. We don't need a government 107 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: shutdown to create unnecessary chaos as we are working to 108 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 2: enact critical policies that move the economy in the right direction, 109 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: that create jobs, that create wealth and opportunity, and so look, 110 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: unemployment obviously is a critical issue. We don't want to 111 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,679 Speaker 2: see layoffs, We don't want to see uncertainty in the market. 112 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: Democrats have said for years, Chuck Schumer, Jeffrey's long on 113 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: record about the impacts of a government shutdown and the 114 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 2: need for a clean CR. They should look in the mirror, 115 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: listen to their words of years past, including just last 116 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: year with Joe Biden at the Helm, and vote the 117 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: right way, which is to pass a clean CR and 118 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: keep the government funded while we work through all these 119 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: other issues of concern. 120 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: What's your view on the Fed Congressman, as you sit 121 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: on the Financial Services Committee. To Tyler's point, if this 122 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: affects the release of the jobs report, for instance, on Friday, 123 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: if BLS can't kick out the jobs data, at what 124 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: point does that become a problem for the FED to 125 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: make an accurate decision, say by the next meeting, when 126 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't have a complete picture of the data. Is 127 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: this something you're worried about it you think government will 128 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: be back open at time? 129 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: Well, again, these are all the concerns and considerations that 130 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 2: go into a government shutdown and why I fundamentally believe, 131 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: regardless of which party is in power, cutting the government 132 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: down is stupid. It doesn't serve a purpose but for 133 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: a political one. And in this instance, Democrats are trying 134 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: to use this for a political purpose, and that is wrong. 135 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: It was wrong when Republicans wanted to do it in 136 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: years past, it is wrong now when you talk about 137 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: the FED. Look fundamentally, I believe the FED has been 138 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 2: late to the game both when they needed to raise 139 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: interest rates in the past and now in terms of 140 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: reducing interest rates. I think they need to cut interest 141 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: rates far greater than they have. Obviously, having all of 142 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 2: the data and information is important, but I think all 143 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: of us recognize the need for them to cut rates. 144 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 2: So whether or not they have that data, they need 145 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 2: to act on the reality of the situation. Jerome pal 146 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: needs to advance rate cuts in a serious way so 147 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: that we can continue to move this economy in the 148 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: right direction. 149 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 3: We heard from President Trump this morning saying that there 150 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 3: could be quote a lot in his words of firings 151 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 3: amid this shut down. We know the OMB was circulating 152 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 3: this memo threatening permanent layoffs. Do you agree with this 153 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 3: as what seems to be emerging as a negotiating tactic 154 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 3: between the White House and Democrats on the Hill. 155 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 2: Look, I said earlier in the week when that memo 156 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: came out that I don't agree with permanent layoffs, but 157 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: this is the challenge. When you have a shutdown. The 158 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: executive will make determinations as to who's essential who is not, 159 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: restructuring of departments and agencies based on a lack of funding. 160 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: And I think if Democrats are so concerned about what 161 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 2: they see as excessive executive overreach, then they shouldn't be 162 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 2: playing games here past the clean cr and keep the 163 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: government funded and then we don't even have to have 164 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: that discussion. But unfortunately they are playing games here and 165 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: changing their previous position. Every single House Democrat but for 166 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: one Jared Golden of Maine, every single House Democrat either 167 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 2: didn't vote or voted no on keeping the government funded 168 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 2: almost two weeks ago. 169 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: Do you take the White House quickly Congressman at their 170 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: word when it comes to the layoffs. 171 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: Look, I don't think they're kidding around. If they intend 172 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: to do that, They've made that clear. And again, why 173 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: play with fire here. There's a very easy way to 174 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 2: solve all this. Pass a clean cr and let's keep 175 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: doing the work of the American people. Negotiate a final 176 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 2: appropriations deal. What they should be asking for is a 177 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: top line number from OMB so that we can finalize 178 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: the appropriations for fiscal year twenty six. That's what they 179 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 2: should be asking for instead of trying to play political 180 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: games here. 181 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 3: All right, Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York, thank 182 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 3: you so much for joining us here on Bloomberg Television 183 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 3: and Radio Today.