WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 215 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:05.240 Al Zone Media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.440 wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.959 So every episode of the week that just happened is 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.800 here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.000 for you to listen to in a long stretch if 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.400 you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:22.239 day this week, there's going to be nothing new here 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:29.320 for you, but you can make your own decisions. What's Pippin' 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.920 my bops? It could happen here? A podcast that is 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.879 sometimes competently introduced, but not on the days that I'm recording. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.919 We're at CEES, the Consumer Electronics Show, seeing what the 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.880 tech industry has in mind for all of us. Right, 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.000 This is a show where the industry talks to itself 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.919 and its investors and clients about what the future is 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.479 going to be. And so Garrison Davis and I are 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:55.360 going to sit down with you and tell, based on 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:00.880 our explorations and investigations this week, what the future of 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:06.319 artificial intelligence means for all of us and for the world. Garrison, Hi, 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:07.000 how you doing. 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:08.039 I'm tired? 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:09.039 Yeah, you look tired. 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:10.760 It's been a long week. It's been a long week 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:11.960 convention walking. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:13.520 Yeah, we've worked very hard. 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:15.200 I've talked to too many robots. 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:17.080 Yeah, I've talked to a lot of chat bots. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:18.600 I mean it's a bit of a stretch, is that 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:19.440 we've talked with them. 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:21.200 I've talked to add a lot of chat bots. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.880 Yeah, and sometimes they respond and sometimes they don't. 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:25.720 I guess one of the things that's kind of shocked 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.440 me is it because, like, despite being very critical about 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.480 AI in the industry, I have actually a pretty good 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:34.720 idea of what these things are capable of. And I 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.760 know that chat GBT and Jim and I and the 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.600 other like, they're capable of doing some things that look 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.120 very impressive. They are capable of conversations. You know that 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.000 it can be fairly in depth, and that can cover 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.120 a wide variety of topics. And so one of the 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.120 things that has surprised me is that as I have 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.360 gone up and tried to communicate with every various chatbot 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.880 enabled AI enabled product, about seventy percent of the time 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.200 it's not actually capable of responding to me in a 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.440 way that makes any sense. Like the majority of those 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:07.640 products just don't function. Sorry, was that literally your AI 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:09.720 and your phone yelling at us. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:13.840 Yes, case in point, I was trying to pull up 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:16.040 one of the one of the AI robots that we 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.240 saw today, and I guess this is something that we 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:20.600 talked about on Better Offline a bit. And the main 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:25.160 thing this this year is the complete, the complete like 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:29.040 victory of of like chat GPT across not just not 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:29.720 just like. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.800 It's like the cultural victory within the tech industry. 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.680 Yes, right, and it's moved into like the physical world 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.440 through like their API license saying yeah, so many of 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:42.040 the quote unquote products this year is building a physical 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:44.360 thing around chat GPT. 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.080 We have a necklace that has chat GPT and you 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.200 can talk to it. We have a pin that chat 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.280 GPT is in and you can talk to it and 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:54.880 have it do things like transcribe an interview. 0:02:55.320 --> 0:03:01.959 Earbuds there's there's earbuds, little tiny robot Dogslassy. Everything has 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.040 has chat GBT inside it. And that's the main thing 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.320 that makes it like unique or special compared to you know, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.400 the types of products we've seen we've seen before. 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.280 And I would say again when I say that, like 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:13.880 seventy percent of the chatbot enabled products that I tried 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.000 to interact with could not converse with me or could 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.440 not do so in a functional way. It's not because 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.640 the chatbots aren't able to talk to you, because they 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.680 are anyone who's not like you can. It's that all 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:27.079 of the chatbots require an active Internet connection because the 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.400 vast majority of these products do not have anything on device, 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.560 and when you're in a crowded convention floor, the Internet 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.760 is bad and so they just don't work. And it 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:38.600 kind of it's one of those I'm sure most of 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.920 these products would work better in the real world, but 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.760 also the fact that they're all completely hobbled by their 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.160 access to data is kind of one of the things. 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.080 It's one of the seams that you can see here. 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:54.840 Yeah, the LLLM rappers, so LM rappers and robotics are 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.760 the big things this year. Often these things are between you. 0:03:57.800 --> 0:03:59.840 Mean by an LLLLM rapper garrison. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.040 Well, this is this is the thing that we're talking about. 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.080 It it's say, it's that this physical product that's built 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.960 around something like chat GPT or Gemini or Claude or 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.440 a number of like the Chinese made ones, right, So 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:13.160 a lot of Chinese companies here. So these physical products, 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.760 whether those are you know, headphones, earbuds, or in many 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.719 cases little tiny robots whose main main features that you 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.440 can talk to can talk to it, and what you're 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.040 actually talking to is like a filtered version of chat GPT. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.120 And there's a lot of these products for kids that 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.760 we've seen, like robots for kids, because there's a lot 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:31.920 a lot of robotics this year as well. That these 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.760 these are the two things that after years and years 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.360 of them trying to find a new thing for each cees, 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.320 they've like settled on not not actually having anything robotics, 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.680 not having anything new because like we've we've seen robotics 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:49.080 before at other years, and this is the year that 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.799 they're combining their physical robotics which aren't new, but combining 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.400 them with chat GPT and presenting it as a new product. 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.920 Look at now you can intelligence the robot and no, 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.400 can't do more tasks than it used to, Like we're 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.840 still doing really good if it can slowly and not 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.880 very competently fold laundry. Oh right, like LG's Kloyd Cloyd, 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.480 which is a robot designed to be in your home 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.680 and do chores for you and visibly does not do 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.920 them well. We watched it now where they're presumably it's 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.200 presumably working better than it normally does because it's a demo. 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:21.960 No. 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.560 I went to the first Cloyd Cloyd demo and they 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.000 had like three three different setups for the different stories 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.880 for like different use cases for Cloyd, once with ones 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.400 with a family, ones with like a single guy, and 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:36.880 ones with like a like a middle aged woman. And 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.520 with the family, the robots able to find keys that 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.640 are lost. Notably, what that means is that Cloyd is 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.040 moving keys around the house, which might actually contribute to 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:53.760 the problem of somewhere else. The robot could put a 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:57.720 tray of croissants in an oven and the robot knows it, 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.919 and the robot knows exactly how you want your croissants done. 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.760 You don't even have to tell the robot. It already knows, 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:05.640 of course. And that's something that was stressed the power 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:07.800 of AIL for and over again is that it will 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:09.279 it will start to like know what you want? 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:09.520 Is it? 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.159 So you want need to tell you have a memory? 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:13.440 So many of these products with the big selling points 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.000 like it's got a memory and it has they can't 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.520 they can't stop themselves. And I think some of this 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.520 was like the actual companies and the way that they're 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.440 structuring their ad campaigns. But a lot of this was 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.800 just most of the companies here hire pr people who 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.160 don't regularly work for the company and don't know much 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.080 about the products, and they're just there to demo stuff, 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.400 and some of it is those people just defaulting too. 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:34.560 Well. 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.719 They're talking about how this thing like like remembers and 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.760 knows you, So I'll talk about how it like it 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.640 has a personality, It has memories, it has experienced, it 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.359 has core memories, you know, it has preferences, and like 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.560 a personality, it wants things. I talked to a couple 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.800 of different people at booths who like that was the 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.040 thing they were emphasizing, is that like, this is an 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.200 AI that like feels and gets to know you and 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.760 has a relationship with you. And it's very number one 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:03.160 not what they would want publicly because that's crazy and 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.880 none of the products actually work that way, but the 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.120 attempt to convince people that, like, what we have done 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.400 is create a robot that lives in your home and 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.400 does chores and it can think and feel. And anytime 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.520 you say, like, well, is there you just saying you 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.400 built a slave? Like are you saying, well, there's thinking 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.720 sentient robots that you have lived in your house and 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:29.120 do your laundry. Isn't that a slave like And it's 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.400 not actually because the robot doesn't say not actually, but 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.000 what they were saying was true, it would be a problem, right. 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.320 Oh, if you get it, introduce yourself however you want introduced. 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.240 Oh, I'm Ben Ben Rosporter. I am an academic, I'm 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:43.679 a sociologist at Kearney. 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.760 And you have accompanied us through the wonderful world of 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:48.960 Las Vegas and the cees this year. I always like 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.640 bringing people to witness the beautiful world. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.600 Yeah, I've been brought to this place very far from god, 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.720 Las ve Guess and the Tech Convention Center. There is 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:02.000 this moment where we were walking through and it was 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:06.120 the the the amy Bot for kids. 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.600 Which me and Robert saw last year, that the little 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.120 like oval owl looking robot. 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.280 Yeah, yeah, and they had this She's got to be 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.360 an actress and she was doing like a little skit 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.960 with the amy Bot where it was like it was 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.480 like the Amy About's birthday or something, and she was 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.440 like very clearly having this this very produced. It reminded 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:29.760 me exactly of how like cheap Tella Novella's like actors 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.320 talk where she was just like, wow, Amy, you've really 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.760 gotten to know me over the years. And it was 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.320 bizarre in that one the selling point of the robot 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.120 was I think they said, turning data into empathy. Yes, 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.080 it's able to turn data into empathy, which God knows 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:49.600 what that means. But also that like, so clearly the 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.160 robot turns data into empathy, but also we cannot show 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:57.080 you the robot doing anything concretely, so we will have 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.000 a person like it was just this very one side 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.440 like skit where this person was doing this really overly 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.920 emotional like back and forth as a robot, where the 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.640 robot would just respond with like the bare minimum like phrases, 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:14.679 and so like what they're selling is is questionable if 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.360 anyone wants it, and all speculative, it's all none of 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.960 it can actually be presented. It's all like the potential 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.640 to do this, and then and then even the way 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.920 that they're actually showing that is mostly just cheap tricks. 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.920 There's another booth where they had the sex robots, and 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:35.319 I was just I it was shocking because the stand 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.360 like you're at this convention, you've presumably you know, gone 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.439 through a lot to get here and you're the image 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:43.360 you're putting forward of your robot that you know you're 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.960 selling as the sex or whatt It's like this cheap 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.680 AI image, not even one of the good ones, like 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:53.040 that they're like clear artifacts and very weird lines and things, 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.600 and that you could google an anime jpeg and get 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.520 a better image for this. So just even the smoke 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:01.800 and mirrors of it was cheap. 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.679 Yeah, that was that Love Ants is the sex Robot booth, 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.400 And yeah, they had two products. One was like just 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.920 like you know, silicon like realistic human skin sex robot, 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.320 which is similar to like you know, those horrifying sex dolls, 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.280 except now we have an LM inside. It's another one 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.440 of those LM rappers, except it's wrapped around of redheaded women. 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.400 Garrison. I find that very offensive. It's actually some people 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.720 are just they're not capable of talking to women or 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:28.000 other human beings of any kind. 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:29.120 Yeah, people with ADHD. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.560 It's actually a disability where people can't know other people 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.000 and can only have sexual gratification through a creepy robot. 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.240 I apologize for my spect for my on air ableism. Yeah, 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.160 but no again, this is the year of LM rappers, 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.080 and now they're putting it, putting it in a sexpod, 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.880 which is more unnerving between than a regular sex doll 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.079 because a regular sex doll, you kind of know it's 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.439 an object. Like it's it's not trying to be much 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:54.880 more than an object. It can't, you can't. You could 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.160 you put in positions, but it's it's static. Yeah, this 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:01.079 because this thing tries to kind of engage with you. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.880 It activates my Uncanny Valley response way more because it's 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.880 like it's kind of trying to pretend to be a person, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.520 and like I could not look at the thing for 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.680 very long, so I just like started like I just 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.920 felt bad. Yeah, and some of that's probably my latent Protestantism, 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.559 but I just feel I just felt bad. But the 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.080 other product they had like around the corner was this 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.920 was this like you know anime style like like Avatar, 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.280 which was which is on like a screen that you 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.559 can talk to and it's synced up to like a 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.520 jack off robot, right, so you can you can engage 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.240 with this. You can engage with this like this like 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:40.679 blonde blonde hair, blue eyed anime woman as it's as 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.400 it connects to like a little a little like jackof Machine, 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:45.600 and that was there. That was the other product which 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.160 did not work because there was no Wi Fi in 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.800 the Venetian Yeah, so we could we could not see it, 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:51.839 but the jackoff machine was still going strong. 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.400 Yeah, so you could say, I guess that, like, well, 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.160 obviously there's there's fundamental issues with like having Wi Fi 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.400 be decent. When you've got seventy thousand people like all 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.480 cramming themselves into a room. Of course, that's going to 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:06.000 cause problems. That the chatbots and the devices using them 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.199 are actually capable of more they should. They're more impressive 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.000 than you giving them credit for just because the WiFi 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.160 didn't work. But also if all your build is a 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:17.319 shell that without the Internet and access to someone else's chatbot, 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.000 it's useless, It doesn't do anything. 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.520 This is the big people, I haven't really made a product. 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.880 All these products are are going to brick as soon 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.240 as soon as as soon as chat GPT raises its 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.240 API costs, they're going to do one of two things. 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:31.959 They're either going to stop working or they're going to 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.880 move their chatbot provider to a different one that's going 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.080 to behave differently. And then it's fundamentally a different. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.000 And that's why periodically I would run into someone where 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.120 it's like everything that we do is on device and everything, 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.520 even the ones that were still because almost you almost 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.240 have to say that whatever you're doing is AI and 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.720 stuff like. There was a company that I came across 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:51.760 because of their name because I just saw the name 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.599 trans Ai and I was like, well, I gotta go 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.160 see what that is. I did see that, and it's 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.080 simply I believe they're a Korean company, but it's it's 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.280 just a company that makes like a translator, right, and 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.800 they make it specifically. It's like the size of a 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.839 smaller smartphone. It looks kind of like a smartphone and 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.520 you set it down and it will on device. It 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:10.840 does not touch the cloud at all for any reason. 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:12.640 It can translate, so if you want to have a 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:14.960 conversation with someone in a foreign language, it can like 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.000 like live translate for you both. And also it will 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.200 transcribe whatever conversations you're happening. And they were like, yeah, 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.520 this is for people who want to transcribe notes when 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.680 they're at college. It's for people who are doing interviews, 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.839 journalists and stuff. So and it was a really good 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:28.959 it seemed to be a good product. I've not gotten 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:30.840 to test it outside of the show floor I saw. 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:31.600 I saw a few of these. 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.079 One of the big differences I saw between like the 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.439 few there were like two or three or four booths 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.800 that we saw where the product I was like, I 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:40.400 had a positive. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.680 I was like I walked away with some mildly positive. 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:47.480 Was that almost everything else talk about like the sort 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:51.319 of insatiability of capital is that it has to sell. 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.000 The sex doll was a perfect example of this in 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.520 that you know, if you make a sex doll and 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.679 you put the chat GPT inside of it and then 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:00.880 you sell it as this this is a sex doll. 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.000 It's an object you fought, but now you can like 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.079 you could have sexy conversation with Its still an object, 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.920 but like you know, that's fun for some people. 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.720 That's a thing that people didn't have and it is new. 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.240 Yeah, and it's a phenomena you could clearly show off. 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.360 It's like, oh you can, you know now the sex 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.520 doll can like say your name and stuff. But almost 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.040 all of the booths that we're selling some kind of 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.360 a product. It was like, we have to sell the 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:31.080 opportunity to like transcend, Like the your mortal shell and 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.720 become a part of the cosmos itself. Like the sex 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.000 Doll was literally sitting in this corner talking to no 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.560 one and saying stuff like I'm about emotional intelligence and 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.120 building a connection, getting to know you and reaching into 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.960 your soul. And it's like, it clearly cannot do this. 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.720 And the few products that were good were the ones 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.320 where the people showing it were just able to like 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.920 just put that aside and just say, here's what the 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.400 product does, right, here's what it can do concrete. 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.800 And that that has become my baseline and first question, 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.640 which is like, have you done anything with your product? 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.720 And if all that you've done is we invented a 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.920 new device that didn't previously have a chatbot that it 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.040 connects to through data that someone else built, you didn't 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.360 do anything that's not a product, that's not real, So 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.360 kind of my first my filter was like, is there 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.600 anything here beyond another way to interact with a completely 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.160 different product that you didn't make. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.480 To go back to like the AI note taking devices, 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.080 which I saw a few where where's a linch and 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:40.200 it will take notes through you. I saw like a 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:41.920 lot of these like marketed to like a college student. 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:43.520 And it's the thing that it is a thing that 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.680 machine learning, because I hate that it gets lomped in 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:48.800 with AI. But machine learning has gotten a lot better. 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.240 They know, they're really good. It's it's good at note taking. 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.160 And here's the thing, and that's alliable. And there's different 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:54.760 devices that you can get it on. Like I saw 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:56.760 like like a note taking pin that's a pin that 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:58.720 just automatically takes notes for you. That was you know, 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:00.520 kind of like kind of kind of fly. But the 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.720 thing is you can do this exact same thing on 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.800 your phone with the chet GPTPP. It's the exact same thing. Yes, 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.160 you don't need it in a pen, just turn your 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.960 phone on and it'll auto do the notes for you. 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.480 The actual product part is useless. The whole idea of 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.680 the smartphone is that you have everything you need already 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:20.080 on it. 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.280 And that's why I did respect again companies like trans Ai, 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.600 where it's like, no, this is actually on device and 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:26.240 this is a thing. 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:27.120 This is that's better. 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.640 YEA utility that my phone doesn't have, which is that 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:31.720 no matter where I am, even if I'm not connected 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.800 to the internet, I can translate and I can transcribe 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.240 using this device that's real utility, and TRANSA is not 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.400 the only company. A couple of companies had products like that. 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.200 Yeah, we saw this emotion tracking pendant which is oh 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.880 my god, on device, which which listens to everyone. 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.320 So you said motion, not emotion, no emotion, oh god. 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.400 But it listens. It listens to everything you're saying. It 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.040 doesn't up put anything to cloud, but it in the 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.240 AA is on device, so it listens everything. It is 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:04.199 like emotional scent analysis. It also monitors your breath and 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.960 your heartbeat because the necklace like rests like on your chest. 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:08.760 And then it like taught and then it can like 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.479 analyze like around like six or seven. That's a mystic 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.200 seven different emotions. And like it was like fine, I 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.280 don't I would never need this thing to tell me 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.439 how I'm feeling. I know how to feel, but like 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.240 it might be fun for some people to like track 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.640 how they're feeling or be like, oh I was more stressed. 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:27.520 I was more stressed this week than like last week. 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.640 And like still and there's. 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.879 There's even there's at least a degree of baseline optimism 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.400 that you have for the product when it's like, Okay, 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.800 this is a device where you're trying to track people's emotions, 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.080 and your immediate first thing you decided as a company 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.040 was this, can't go on a cloud. That would be 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:43.800 a responcible. 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:45.920 This is why that was the first thing I asked, right, right, 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:46.840 And that is. 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:50.520 I guess the most important fundamental difference between companies and 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.399 people here, and between the companies that are embracing to 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.480 some extent AI is the ones who whose default was like, well, 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.000 but we're doing something that involves emotions or that involved 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.399 like interviews or conversations that people might not want on 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.040 like we shouldn't have that on the cloud, versus the 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.359 people who are like, why wouldn't you put literally everything 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.000 on the cloud. Why don't you want your health and 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.159 medical data on the cloud. Why don't we want your 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.120 financial data on the cloud? Right, Like that is kind 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.240 of like the most fundamental difference that you see between 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:18.040 people here. 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.240 Part and parcel of the insatiable like just drive for 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.560 endless value. And probably the comparisons between this convention and 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.440 its location, Las Vegas are really overlaiden at this point, 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.840 but I mean there is something about, like, you know, 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.480 the appeal of gambling is the promise of the speculative 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.600 promise of endless value and how all of these technologies 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.080 are selling themselves off of endless value. And for the 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:44.760 producer side, that means like this, this device has endless 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.840 function potentially, you know we say endless functions. 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:49.800 Especially with these like AI devices. 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:50.120 Yeah. 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.800 Yeah, But from the consumer side, it's from a well, 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.280 if you just give yourself over to you know, to 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.280 the god of capital, if you if you just bleed 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.800 into the machine and connect yourself to the cloud and 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.199 give over like everything, and it really is everything. I mean, 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.919 there's like AI towels that are like analyzing your sweat. 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.240 If you give over everything, there is this vague promise 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.439 of transcendence and that like you will escape the like 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.159 the misery of the world that this place is just 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:22.400 both completely blind to and then also without ever saying it, 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.840 like also responding to it entirely. 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.399 First off, obviously you're coming at this from more of 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.800 a left wing perspective, so you probably don't understand that 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.880 gambling always works and you're definitely going to win. So 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:35.840 first off, you. 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.760 Know, no Vegas really is the anarcho capitalist paradise. 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.639 It sure is, But no, like what you're saying is 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.080 they want you to give everything over. There is absolutely 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.280 there's not outside of again the odd booth where you 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:50.800 find sane people, which is almost how I think about 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.240 it them in my head, where it's like yeah, where 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.399 you're putting front and forward. This stays on the device. 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.840 You don't have to be online. We are not exposing 0:19:57.880 --> 0:19:58.480 your data. 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:00.800 It's like seeing a lighthouse right like in like a 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.200 horrible like rainstorm and you're like sailing got his ship 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:04.960 and you can't see anything, and everyone's you'll see a 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.080 booth with like a real person. God, it's like talking 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.840 about it was solving a real plumbing, like oh finally, Yeah. 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.600 It's a spectrum between talking to the ais, talking to 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.080 the real few people and then the other people who 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:17.400 are kind of in between the two. 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.800 And it was I went from seeing this app where 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.800 the whole purpose of this this company that makes like 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.840 agentic ai solutions, who I'm scrolling to find there the 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.000 company name right now, all of it is they're making 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.800 agents that you can put in like point of sale things, 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.600 or you can put in like cars as a chat. 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:36.680 But like one thing they said is yeah, we can 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.359 put this in a car and we can have the 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.000 you know, you can navigate using voice the way you 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.320 would normally like with a bunch of other apps. But 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.040 if you navigate with voice using our app, it will 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.240 only send you to restaurants or businesses that we have 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:51.959 a deal with that are giving us a cut and 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.080 so and you too the car company gets a cut two. 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.840 And that was the innovation is that we can not 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.720 give people like tell people where things are. We can 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.119 tell people where things are that hey, us and you 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:04.760 get a cut up. 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.560 The company can like make a partnership with like Coca Cola. Right, 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:08.560 so then when you we were. 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:10.480 Literally talking to Coca Cola reps when I was there, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.359 it's showing them that like, yeah, we have a like look, 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:15.520 we've replaced the human beings that take your orders at 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.560 Burger King, and the chatbot can alter on the fly 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.879 of the menu. If you have to get a smooth 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.200 a lot of vanilla coat and you want to sell 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:26.560 as many large as possible, it can tell people that's 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.919 the only option. WHOA And like like the fact that 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.080 they were just like bald faced about it, because when 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.320 I showed up, they were they were demoing how this uh, 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.280 this like Burger King menu with AI worked, and they 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.640 were like there was a full menu that you could 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.600 see that was like a like an updated screen menu, 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.159 but there was a secondary menu where they're like pretending 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:47.560 to be a guy who drew up to Burger King. 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.480 And the way that they started was like, yeah, what 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:52.760 burgers are good? What do you think I'd like? And 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:54.040 I was like, who No one. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.199 Drives up, No one could drive through window and asks 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:57.960 what's good? 0:21:58.119 --> 0:21:59.879 Yeah, No, that's not how they And again there's a 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.800 menu in front of you. You look at the menu 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:06.639 and like, that's how everyone buys food. So at first 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.760 I was like, is this just a company that doesn't 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.719 know how life works? Who are like trying to pretend 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.000 this is like what people want where they go through? Yeah, 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:18.560 you know, well what's good today in McDonald's. You know, 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.639 do you have any specials? Which was crazy, But then 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:23.440 I realized because they were talking to this small group 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.160 of people, and I realized after a second, oh, because 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.480 I looked at their badges. Everyone has badges that all 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.000 of the people worked for Coca Cola, and so they 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.159 were talking about how, yes, if Burger King wants to 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:35.679 move you know, a specific kind of whopper, then we 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:37.840 can put that front and center when people ask what's 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:39.880 good and we can push it and said for coke, 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:41.600 if you guys want to move vanilla coke, we can have. 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.840 Whenever people order anything, we can have it. Say do 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.000 you want to add a vanilla coke? A large vanilla cokes? 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:47.000 Just like yeah. 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:51.080 And so what I realized is that this company whose 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:53.240 name is this is SoundHound. 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:56.920 AI sound Hound Yeah, yeah, great, pretty pretty good name. 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.520 Their motto was faster and more accurate, higher revenue. I 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:03.399 came to realize, and this is this is not entirely 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:05.959 a separation from other years because they are always selling 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:09.120 to companies like this, but there was absolutely they were 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:11.560 the only thing that they were talking about actual end users, 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:13.960 as was a thing that you can pull extra money 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:17.600 out of by tricking them, by pushing extra ads to them. 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:19.920 And that's who they were actually selling to, is these 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:21.920 companies that they were like. The other thing they demoed 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:23.960 was you can make an agent on the fly and 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:25.800 you can include the capabilities, and they showed us how 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.000 to select it and then built an AI an agent 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.920 to live in your car. And the demo they did 0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:34.439 was like, hey, my car is making this sound. What 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:36.160 do you think it is? They didn't play the sound 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:38.119 for the AI by the way they described it, and 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:40.800 the AA said that sounds like it could be da 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:43.520 da da da. It'll cost about seven hundred dollars to fix. 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:47.480 Great book me an appointment with the dealership. So, first off, 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:49.720 that's not how people work. I've had car everyone has 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.520 car issues. A regular person there's a problem with your car. 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:55.679 You either have a mechanic that's not the dealership that 0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:57.480 you go to because they didn't rip you off in 0:23:57.520 --> 0:23:59.720 the past, and you're like, well, I trust them not 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:02.159 to bock me too bad, or you go to a 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:05.240 couple because most people don't just drop seven hundred dollars 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:07.320 in a repair and not think about it. But the 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:09.879 person that this engineer is pretending to be for the 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:13.479 purpose of this AI demo said, great book me a 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:16.720 repair at the dealership, and the AI was like, okay, 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:18.600 I've called them and I've booked you an appointment, and 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:21.080 by the way, would you like to schedule the test 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:24.080 drive for this specific kind of car. Oh, my wife 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.400 loves that car. Book us And that was the whole 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:28.080 thing is he was like, don't be impressed that we 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:30.439 can theoretically book you an appointment. Be impressed that we 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.120 can have the machine upsell you on trying to buy 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:34.840 a new car when you come in to fix your 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:38.280 old car that broke because you bought a bad car. 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:42.160 And there was no shame. They were so proud of themselves, 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:45.960 for this machine can repeatedly upsell you things. And that 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:48.679 was the only utility. It was not this allows you 0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:52.040 to more easily navigate town. This allows you to more 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:55.560 easily cut out problems in your life. It was. This 0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:59.680 machine can upsell you every minute of your day, everything 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:02.520 you add to do, everything you try to have it do, 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:04.680 and we get a cut of that. If we send 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:07.320 it to a restaurant and you buy food there, we 0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:09.800 get a cut of that. And so does whatever company 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:11.560 you know put the thing in your car. If you 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:13.639 buy a new car, we get a cut of that. 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:17.040 That was the product and that we have gone from 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:19.840 here machines that do things. And even back in the 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:22.919 glorias of smartphones, at least everyone was showing like, look, 0:25:23.000 --> 0:25:25.359 we have a new phone that's thinner than a phone 0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:25.880 has ever been. 0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:28.840 Yeah, or like the camera is like you know, four 0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:30.080 K now or something whatever. 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:32.600 The focus is always and now people who buy them 0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:34.200 can do this with it. Right. 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:37.880 I mean, I would guess that so much of the 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:40.440 impetus for creating this stuff and developing it is all 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:44.080 for producer goods, and then the more revenue is honest, 0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:46.200 and that like, that's what the and all the consumer 0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:48.679 goods are mostly just getting you know, cast off is 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:50.520 like now we have all I mean literally, that's what 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:53.040 the LM wrappers are. It's just like, oh, we have 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:55.159 this thing, let's throw a plastic robot on it and 0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:59.119 try and sell it. But what drives its development is 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:03.200 squeezing just little bits, squeezing labor out of the pores 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:05.760 of the production process, which it just gets you a 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:09.320 little bit more capital to keep this engine going a 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:10.000 little bit further. 0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:13.119 And it's so because the way it'll work is I 0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:16.159 saw that thing where it's literally all you've invented is 0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:17.840 a way to try to con people out of more 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:20.439 of their money. I hope you're proud of yourselves, because 0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:24.760 I think redacted is what you should do to yourself. 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:26.520 And I went from that to the booth of a 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:28.560 company called Gintex, who had never heard of before, but 0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:33.520 they make different automotive products, and an engineer there showed 0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:35.040 me a thing that he had been the lead on 0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:37.320 inventing which was a sun visor. So like you know, 0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:39.920 when you're driving and there's a glare, you put down 0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:42.560 the advisor, and the visor is just like basically a 0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:44.840 piece of fabric and it blocks a chunk of your view, 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:48.000 but it at least blocks the sun. And this was 0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:51.960 an intelligent visor that was clear and so you could 0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:54.480 see through it, but it also blocked UV rays and 0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:56.880 you could adjust the level of opacity if you needed 0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:58.920 it to be more or less, but you could still 0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:01.359 see through the mirror and it still blocked the glare. 0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:03.639 And I was like, oh, that's really neat. And then 0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:05.760 he pressed a button and it turned into a mirror. 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.959 Suddenly that functioned. It looked great. I saw it. I 0:27:09.040 --> 0:27:11.960 know it works, and I got like an an, honest wow, 0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:14.200 I didn't know that was a thing that could happen. 0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:16.920 And that's a that's a real product, and I can 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:20.320 imagine using it. That's like a problem where yeah, if 0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:23.040 you want to block glare, you're losing a degree of 0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:27.920 visibility and now you're not You've actually done something right. 0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:32.119 Yeah, but you could put Gemini into a toaster and 0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:32.760 call it a day. 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:35.240 What if your toaster could talk to you about Proust. 0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:38.200 I guess see, I mean this is actually now that's 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:51.480 an idea. If we're going to close this this more 0:27:51.480 --> 0:27:53.760 AI focused episode, I kind of want to circle back 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:59.280 to Cloyd and like, why and why Chloyd Bloyd again exists. 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:01.119 Just take a second, if you're listening to this at 0:28:01.119 --> 0:28:03.760 home on the drive, if you've got family around, look 0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:06.480 at each other, look another person in the eye, and 0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:10.840 say the word LG has a new home assistance robot 0:28:10.960 --> 0:28:16.800 named Cloyd. Cloyd roll it around in your tongue, you know, 0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:18.359 just think about it for a second. 0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:23.119 Okay, why Cloyd exists? Like why why is LG who's 0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:26.520 previously had some really impressive booths over the years. 0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:27.639 And they had cool TVs. 0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:30.080 They had TVs where the wallpaper TV was impressive. 0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:32.080 Every time I go to an LG's booth every year, 0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:33.560 I'm like, yeah, that's a better look on TV. 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:38.400 Really TV. Yeah, it's great, But why why? And then 0:28:38.440 --> 0:28:41.360 the wallpeer TV is Okay, we there was wellpaper TV 0:28:41.480 --> 0:28:43.400 last year. It was it was slightly worse. This one's 0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:46.120 a little bit better. But why does Cloyd the big 0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:49.320 thing at the LG booth this year? Loyd right, because 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:51.400 none of the technology that Cloyd is doing is new. 0:28:51.800 --> 0:28:54.600 Remember last year at Showstoppers, me and you we saw 0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:56.080 that really janky robot. 0:28:56.800 --> 0:28:58.840 You don't have to be more specific, but you said. 0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:00.240 Taking a robot that moves up in down. 0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:02.680 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the pusher and shover robots. 0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:06.280 Yes, right, And Cloyd is like kind of that. It's 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:08.880 like the actual physical robotic parts of Cloyd aren't new. 0:29:09.280 --> 0:29:11.400 And the sort of the sort of AI that's running. 0:29:11.120 --> 0:29:14.760 Clod and Cloyd as if someone needed to make Wally 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:17.520 that was legally distinct enough to stop Disney from suing them, 0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:20.160 and tall and taller. That's how Chloyd looks. 0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:21.760 So why is Cloyd there? 0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:25.440 Why is Cloyd there? I'm always asking myself this. 0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:26.960 Is This goes into like what this what like Cees 0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:28.680 is like doing this year, and how it reflects this 0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:31.680 current state of the tech industry. Is that these lms 0:29:31.960 --> 0:29:35.560 like TRAGVT are not actually better than they were last year. No, 0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:37.680 they are. They are the same. So how do we 0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:39.440 make things look look cool? 0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:41.959 Just whatever improvements they are is not enough to notice 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:43.360 for an average person. 0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:45.920 Very minimal. Yeah, So instead of actually having anything new 0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:49.200 or any kind of sizeable improvement to display. They're combining 0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:52.320 too old and some of their products are kind of archaic, 0:29:52.720 --> 0:29:55.479 combining two older products and trying to pass it off 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:57.840 as a new thing. And that's these these these like 0:29:57.920 --> 0:30:01.680 older older like robotic systems right that you're usually kind 0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:03.760 of humanoid. Maybe they have hands, Maybe the hands can 0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:06.960 grab things. Can the hands unscrew up a milk carton? 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:07.200 To no? 0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:10.560 Can can the robot grab milk out of the fridge? 0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:13.080 Yes, so long as you want milk from a very 0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:16.640 specific carton and croissants and only croissants, you, guys. 0:30:16.440 --> 0:30:18.400 As long as the milk has a QR code that 0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:20.840 the robot can recognize to know that it's milk. And 0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:24.440 also when it's emptier than a certain level, it actually 0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:26.320 will crush the milk thing like it has to be 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:27.680 a certain level a full otherwise doesn't. 0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:30.120 But neither of these things are new. And the fact 0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:33.040 that ALG doesn't have anything else to display at their booth, 0:30:33.160 --> 0:30:36.400 the fact that they had to stoop so low is 0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:39.880 to regurgitate this old kind of cheap robotics and slap 0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:41.560 an LM in there and then call it a day, 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:45.160 so that they have very little to actually show for us, 0:30:45.680 --> 0:30:48.840 and you see this walking through like the central hall set, 0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:51.360 the Samsung booth is into there, the Nikon booth is 0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:54.360 into there, the Sony booth is mostly a car. Like 0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:58.120 there's a lot of these big companies are really absent 0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:00.960 from actual products. The Panasonic has a really big booth, 0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:03.680 but it's mostly about like servers, it's mostly about how 0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:07.800 they're how they're improving, how they're improving data farming. There's 0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:11.160 no stuff, and a lot of the stuff that does exist. 0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:14.320 You even have to separate further from stuff that exists 0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:17.360 and actually might be useful to stuff that exists and 0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:20.200 might be useful because it solves a problem that the 0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:23.520 thing that it is already created. Like, for example, a 0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:26.720 bunch of I came to several different companies that had 0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:31.200 a car AI assistance whose job was to yell at 0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:34.240 you if you fell asleep or got distracted, and they 0:31:34.240 --> 0:31:37.400 were all built into these giant dashboard things that were 0:31:37.400 --> 0:31:41.040 the whole dashboard is a screen, and it's like, yeah, 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:42.640 I can see why you need a robot to yell 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.320 people get distracted because we have data. 0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:49.200 Because they're putting subway surfers on your fucking car dash. 0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:51.200 We have ample data that shows that when you have 0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:54.479 a giant screen in a car and people use that screen, 0:31:54.920 --> 0:31:58.080 they are actually worse drivers than when they're just drawn 0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:01.600 on a normal car. And soh yes, you have made 0:32:01.600 --> 0:32:03.600 the car. You can show me how this whole dashboard 0:32:03.760 --> 0:32:05.200 you can change it in a second. Look at all 0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:07.320 these different modes you have. You can smartly change your 0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:10.120 dashboard be whatever you want, and it'll yell at you 0:32:10.120 --> 0:32:11.320 if you get distracted. And it's like, well, but the 0:32:11.360 --> 0:32:13.760 only reason you're getting distracted is because your entire car 0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:17.640 is a computer screen, which it shouldn't be, and we 0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:18.880 know it shouldn't be. 0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:22.000 They're either trying to solve problems that they created or 0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:26.000 inventing solutions to things that aren't really problems. And like 0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:28.560 with and this is this specifically with Cloyd, and they 0:32:28.640 --> 0:32:30.560 kept the guy who is like doing the demo kept 0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:34.200 reiterating that Cloyd cluld Or already knows what you want 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:36.640 before you have to say anything, right, whether that's a 0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:40.240 croissant that's slightly under baked, or he knows had a 0:32:40.280 --> 0:32:42.680 fold laundry just the way you use the way you 0:32:42.760 --> 0:32:45.560 like it badly, which is what she said in a 0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:49.200 kind of self aware ironic tone because this robot spent 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:52.200 two minutes trying to fold a single towel and it 0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:54.880 couldn't do it. These things don't work, and they're not 0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:58.400 meant to. It's meant to drive traffic and attention towards 0:32:58.480 --> 0:33:00.440 the LG brand, because there's many tons of ours been 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:03.000 like look at LG's new butler robot, right and that, 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.240 and that's that's all that they're doing at this demo, 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:07.480 because this is not a real product for sale. 0:33:07.560 --> 0:33:08.120 Yeah it is. 0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:10.040 It is meant to drive attention to the brand and 0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:12.200 get articles, and then those articles are going to get 0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:15.200 you know, cited by by other by other lllfs, and 0:33:15.240 --> 0:33:17.440 it's this it's this cycle that just keeps building. 0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:20.040 There's some really impressive stuff there too, Like I went 0:33:20.080 --> 0:33:23.320 to Persona AI's booth which had a bunch of computers 0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:26.320 that had without that were not connected to the internet. 0:33:26.320 --> 0:33:27.960 All the signs told you that, And it has on 0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:32.440 pc AI image generators where it's all on the machine itself, 0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:35.800 and you know, one of the representatives said, come on, 0:33:35.840 --> 0:33:37.640 give it a prompt, it will generate an image. And 0:33:37.680 --> 0:33:39.760 I've never used an AI image generator, and so I 0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:42.040 kind of panic I'll be honest, like I got freaked out. 0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:43.360 It's gonna be some bullshit. 0:33:44.880 --> 0:33:48.160 Tom size more with dead kid. Yeah, now that's not 0:33:48.240 --> 0:33:50.560 Tom size more, but that is a man cuddling a 0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:53.400 dead child. The kid doesn't the face is gone, and 0:33:53.440 --> 0:33:58.640 that's not Tom size more. Like but you know, the future, 0:33:58.920 --> 0:33:59.480 the future. 0:33:59.640 --> 0:34:02.360 No this, I can't. I don't want to harp on 0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:05.120 Cloyd too much, but it's so it's such. 0:34:04.960 --> 0:34:08.080 A good Every additional time you say Cloyd, it sounds 0:34:08.160 --> 0:34:09.319 less like, such. 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:11.839 A good example of what this show is specifically this year, 0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:14.960 how there's there's there's nothing new, so they're reaching into 0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:19.000 like into like the cees of of yesteryear. Yeah, I'm 0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:21.759 trying to push two things together and pretend that it's 0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:24.480 a new thing. And when it doesn't work, they're like, oh, 0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:27.720 this is actually a good things. He's folding the towel 0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:30.200 just the way I like, and that's bad. Poorly. Look, 0:34:30.360 --> 0:34:34.000 he spends ninety seconds putting a single shirt into the 0:34:34.120 --> 0:34:37.040 washing machine, and this is him being very thorough. That 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:37.720 that was the words. 0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:39.640 He's being very thorough, really putting the time, and. 0:34:39.680 --> 0:34:40.960 You're like, this thing doesn't work. 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:43.239 It is bad. It's a bad product. Part of the 0:34:43.280 --> 0:34:45.120 mistake they made, I think is that because this is 0:34:45.160 --> 0:34:48.560 the year of robots, there are robots there that are 0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:51.879 like industrial application robots that are showcasing we have made 0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:54.799 a robot with humanoid hands that is capable of more 0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:57.440 intricate movements than any other human hand robot before, and 0:34:57.440 --> 0:35:00.520 they should showed it like intricately folding like a wheel. 0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:03.239 And I was like, yeah, that I have not seen 0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:06.080 a robot with humanoid hands that has had that much 0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:10.040 dexterity before. I'm sure that has some useful industrial applications. 0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:12.359 And then you go from that and there's a bunch 0:35:12.360 --> 0:35:14.040 of other robots that are industrial where it's like, we 0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:16.320 have built a new tip for this robot that allows 0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:18.800 it to do this kind of automotive work, or allows 0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:21.000 it to do this kind of like manufacturing work, right 0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:24.320 where I'm like, I assume not being an expert on robotics, 0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:26.759 but you're saying it's the world's first robot that can 0:35:26.800 --> 0:35:29.680 handle this task. But that's at least an innovation. You 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:32.040 talk about the ethics of replacing hit, but like that's 0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:34.360 a thing that is a new capability, and you have 0:35:34.480 --> 0:35:37.440 those robots next to the robots that human beings arectionally 0:35:37.440 --> 0:35:39.560 meant to buy and put in their homes, none of 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:42.920 which work well, all of which are exactly as capable 0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:45.640 as robots twenty years ago, except there's a chatbot on them, 0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:48.320 and it makes it all look worse. Where you're showing 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:51.560 me what theoretically the best in robotics can do, and 0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:52.920 then I'm looking at the thing I'm supposed to have 0:35:52.920 --> 0:35:55.120 in my house and it just fell down and it 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:57.960 can't fold laundry, and you want me to spend six 0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:02.600 thousand dollars or twelve thousand dollars. One of the robot 0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:05.080 the uh uh I think it was like Booster X 0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:06.640 or something like that, the one that was dressed like 0:36:06.680 --> 0:36:09.400 Michael Jackson. You're supposed to have as a companion for 0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:11.960 your child. It'll help it with its homework using chatch ept. 0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:13.200 It's small dancing robots. 0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:16.759 Small dancing robot. Yes, yes, the small dancing robot that 0:36:16.760 --> 0:36:18.440 you've been hit in the head with a liquor bottle 0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:20.840 and it won't break. That was part of the ad video. 0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:23.799 You know how you always would to hit your get 0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:26.600 into the head with a liquor bottle, Get out this 0:36:26.680 --> 0:36:28.880 anger with this tiny child's high. 0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:31.440 Robot robot senator for your child. 0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:34.799 And again, if someone was marketing a robot senator, like 0:36:34.840 --> 0:36:37.279 are you angry at your spouse? You can beat the 0:36:37.360 --> 0:36:40.200 shit out of this robot and be fine. At least 0:36:40.280 --> 0:36:41.120 that's an idea. 0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:43.839 You know, with AI technology, the robot will actually learn 0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:47.120 your spouse's personality and respond accordingly. Take the beatings. 0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:49.799 Look, look, I've been hitting this robot after I come 0:36:49.840 --> 0:36:51.520 back from work every day for the last two weeks. 0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:52.879 And look as soon as I walk on the door 0:36:52.920 --> 0:36:55.359 it starts to shake the. 0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:57.520 Previous models in this way. It wasn't satisfied. 0:36:57.600 --> 0:36:59.320 Yeah, it took a long time for a team to 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:02.200 figure out how to give a robot PTSD. By god, 0:37:02.239 --> 0:37:03.400 we've crossed the rubicon. 0:37:03.920 --> 0:37:06.319 As you can see, Vegas is taking its toll on 0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:10.680 our psyches as we've done a extended intimate partner abuse. Bid. 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:12.920 He's not a partner. It's robot Garrison. 0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:13.680 Oh, you're right, it's not. 0:37:13.840 --> 0:37:16.719 Also, the robot can think and feel and has core 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:17.879 memories and can love. 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:22.200 You don't put those two things together. These only exist 0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:23.360 as separate thoughts. 0:37:23.440 --> 0:37:25.680 So this robot basically has a soul watches hit it 0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:26.560 with a liquor bottle. 0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:28.960 It would just be so great to like with all 0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:32.799 of the how much they're focused on the AI can 0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:34.640 develop real human connection. 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:36.200 But it's also Sacharin. 0:37:36.239 --> 0:37:37.920 I would love to just do a booth where it's 0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:40.839 like we're teaching our robots hate they can't know how 0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:41.239 to hate. 0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:43.399 Yeah, And I do want to end by noting one 0:37:43.440 --> 0:37:45.080 thing that we talked about a little briefly, but it 0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:47.040 is kind of low key. The most upsetting thing about this, 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:48.880 which is I saw a bunch of different booths that 0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:51.280 use the term empathy, and what they meant by empathy 0:37:51.440 --> 0:37:55.120 was the robot can understand and anticipate what you want 0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:58.200 right that it's learning you and your patterns in order 0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:01.480 to offer you in more effect we assist you. And 0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:06.280 I guess technically, yeah, but reducing the concept of empathy 0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:11.000 to the robot knows when you might want snacks is 0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:18.040 kind of evil, like it's in its right empathy means 0:38:18.080 --> 0:38:20.360 the robot knows when to serve you. Is like a 0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:23.239 bad way to talk about empathy. I don't think most 0:38:23.239 --> 0:38:24.959 people when you know what is empathy, well, it means 0:38:24.960 --> 0:38:26.960 someone knows when I want to be up sold on 0:38:27.000 --> 0:38:29.640 a Hyundai. That's not what empathy is. 0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:34.080 Yeah, our robot learns empathy by being instrumental to you 0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:37.400 and useful seeaously what you know the core of empathy. 0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:40.080 We made our robot watch four hours of videos from 0:38:40.120 --> 0:38:43.759 Gaza and it immediately said, I bet those kids went 0:38:43.840 --> 0:38:48.920 on Hyundai a Lantra like that. I anyway, Yeah. 0:38:49.640 --> 0:38:51.880 It's if your version of empathy is trying to sell 0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:55.600 coke vanilla because we have all of this, all this stock. 0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:56.600 Oh wait too much. 0:38:56.760 --> 0:38:58.040 We fucked up. 0:38:58.280 --> 0:39:01.319 We are in trouble, We're under That's what empathy is. 0:39:01.480 --> 0:39:04.320 Yeah. Anyway, Welcome to the future. 0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:05.960 Everyone's a CES miracle. 0:39:06.040 --> 0:39:21.440 It's a CES miracle. Goodbye. This is it could happen 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:24.400 here a podcast about things falling apart and today the 0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:28.480 things falling apart our consumer electronics as an industry. We 0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:31.080 are at CES twenty twenty six, the trade show where 0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:33.919 the tech industry shows us everything that's going to sell 0:39:34.000 --> 0:39:37.080 us in the next year. And we've seen some cool 0:39:37.120 --> 0:39:40.160 stuff and a lot of bloatwear, a lot of crap, 0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:42.920 a lot of AI enabled stuff that doesn't need to 0:39:42.920 --> 0:39:45.480 be AI enabled. Here to talk about it is our 0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:47.640 panel of experts. 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:49.160 Needs experts is a strong word. 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.520 But okay, yeah, panel is a strong word. Is even 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:57.040 a strong word. I'm Robert Evans, Garrison Davis is also 0:39:57.120 --> 0:39:57.520 with me. 0:39:58.280 --> 0:39:59.520 And I'm Ben Rose Porter. 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:02.880 And you know been you're an academic, right you do 0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:03.720 you do college? 0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:04.080 Yeah? 0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:06.520 College, I'm a teach sociology. 0:40:06.640 --> 0:40:14.480 That's right, that's right, as a sociopath. Uh, how academy, folks. 0:40:15.000 --> 0:40:19.480 It's fascinating, love, I mean, you know, it's a fascinating world. Sociologically. 0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:22.480 You can learn a lot of the maladies of society 0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:23.080 at this place. 0:40:23.360 --> 0:40:24.759 It's most of them are on display here. 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:28.520 We are now going to walk you through a bunch 0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:31.640 of the largely non ai products that we were able 0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:34.920 to find after sorting through the gunk. 0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:38.240 Yeah, it's kind of like like you know how people 0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:40.640 like pan for gold. Yes, if instead of like panning 0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:43.440 for gold and like a beautiful mountain stream like you 0:40:43.440 --> 0:40:47.680 were panning for gold and like a pile of used condoms, gold. 0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:50.360 Is also generous. This is the panning for pennies in 0:40:50.400 --> 0:40:52.239 a pile of used condoms. 0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:55.160 Right right now? What was the best used condom you 0:40:55.200 --> 0:40:56.879 saw it? Twenty twenty six? 0:40:56.960 --> 0:41:01.120 Garrison, I think you mean, what's the best Penny good products. 0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:02.520 Did we see any good products? 0:41:02.880 --> 0:41:04.480 Yeah, there's some good ones. 0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:06.879 Did I I don't know if I saw any good 0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:07.680 products this year. 0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:10.520 The translation stuff is still around, and some of it's 0:41:10.560 --> 0:41:11.080 really cool now. 0:41:11.080 --> 0:41:13.360 I mean, yeah, we've in other episodes we've talked about 0:41:13.440 --> 0:41:16.880 the glasses and the earbuds. Most of the product sheets 0:41:16.880 --> 0:41:20.120 I have out now are at the very least mixed 0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:23.600 if if if not, it's not bad. At Eureka Park 0:41:23.640 --> 0:41:27.279 there was this product called Nodi, which is a smartphone 0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:30.799 replacement for kids, like kids like six to twelve if 0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:33.560 you don't want them having a smartphone, and it allows 0:41:33.600 --> 0:41:37.399 them to send voice messages to a parent and who 0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:40.239 like you know has like this approoved contact list, so 0:41:40.320 --> 0:41:43.440 you can you can also listen to music, listen to 0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:47.040 like some like radio, like like you know radio, dramas, 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:51.440 price and books. It connects to Spotify. You can learn 0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:54.719 languages allegedly or you can you can learn words, right, 0:41:54.719 --> 0:41:56.520 you can learn words from other languages, and you can 0:41:56.560 --> 0:41:59.120 communicate with your parents. And this was like fine, right, 0:41:59.160 --> 0:42:00.920 it's the stuff that we've kind of seen before, but 0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:03.279 it was this little like you know, silken kind of 0:42:03.280 --> 0:42:06.560 looks like like a elf bar. If you're familiar with 0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:08.680 an elf bar, it kind of looks like that, and 0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:10.759 it's if, yeah, if you don't want to give your like, 0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:13.840 you know, six year old an iPhone, but you you know, 0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:16.319 want them to have a way to contact you, right, 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:18.279 and that's like fine. Right. So there's there's a lot 0:42:18.280 --> 0:42:20.920 of like basic stuff like that. I guess that is 0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:23.440 like kind of okay. I don't want to be cynical 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:25.000 for the sake of being cynical. That kind of stuff 0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:27.160 bores me. But there really wasn't that many good products 0:42:27.160 --> 0:42:29.600 this year because so many of them just were LLLM rappers, 0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:31.280 as we discussed in our previous episode. 0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:34.200 And there's another there were products that were good and 0:42:33.719 --> 0:42:36.160 I could tell we're good products on their own that 0:42:36.239 --> 0:42:38.839 they had still thrown AI functionality that I don't want 0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:40.640 that I know will blow out the price and also 0:42:40.920 --> 0:42:43.640 makes it me less want to buy it. LG was 0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:47.239 advertising their new OLED television that has like the most 0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:51.160 vibrant colors, the best OLED screen that's ever been on 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:53.600 a TV. I'm sure it looked fucking great. Yeah, video 0:42:53.640 --> 0:42:56.359 of it. The colors, the darks are amazing. Screens are 0:42:56.400 --> 0:42:59.440 really good, but it's also with AI with Evo AI 0:42:59.719 --> 0:43:02.040 and show off it's vibrant colors and what's capable of. 0:43:02.320 --> 0:43:05.080 They had a loop of videos that were inspired by 0:43:05.080 --> 0:43:08.680 the hubbled Space telescope and you can see it if 0:43:08.800 --> 0:43:11.600 if you ever watched Deep Space nine. It's about the 0:43:11.680 --> 0:43:13.920 quality of the Deep Space nine intro. 0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:15.959 It does look very Star Trek intro. 0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:20.920 Yeah, which is frustrating because again we have images show 0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:24.120 the actual image show they look cool because you know 0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:28.160 what they are is real, Like they're real products of 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:30.279 one of the most impressive things human beings ever made. 0:43:30.600 --> 0:43:33.320 And you're bragging that, like we have an AI generating 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:36.640 images inspired by this thing that look worse. 0:43:36.760 --> 0:43:38.480 Yeah, it's just a lot of those things. They're kind 0:43:38.480 --> 0:43:38.920 of mixed. 0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:41.040 I wanted the TV I want. I was like, Wow, 0:43:41.080 --> 0:43:44.360 I might like a TV like that until you displayed 0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:46.320 that part of it, and now I just kind of 0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:48.560 feel dirty about even the prospect of wanting one of 0:43:48.600 --> 0:43:49.200 your products. 0:43:49.360 --> 0:43:51.160 This is an interesting product I saw the like the 0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:55.399 Innovation Awards showcases is the acoustic eye, which is kind of. 0:43:55.440 --> 0:43:56.319 First off, that's an ear. 0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:58.000 That's an ear, like, right, that's an ear. We don't 0:43:58.000 --> 0:44:00.920 need to do that, But this is a secifically a 0:44:01.040 --> 0:44:06.640 security system that tries to detect very small drones. And 0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:09.280 this is like for you know, high profile people's houses. 0:44:09.280 --> 0:44:11.319 Mostly you can put that on your roof or your 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:14.759 window and it'll detect very small drones that cameras would 0:44:14.800 --> 0:44:17.000 not be able to detect. So it's trying to like 0:44:17.200 --> 0:44:21.440 listen for drones. It provides three hundred and sixty degree 0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:28.279 omnidirectional aerial surveillance detecting invisible aerial threats. So I would 0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:31.400 assume that they're trying to excel these to like, you know, 0:44:31.480 --> 0:44:35.040 like executives like CEOs, politicians, people who are at risk 0:44:35.080 --> 0:44:37.600 of either you know, drones filming around their house or 0:44:37.960 --> 0:44:42.239 more like kinetic drone based attacks. Right, And this is 0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:44.759 an interesting product that's like very current. It's a very 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:47.160 current product like this is this is a reflection of 0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:48.920 some of the times that we're in. 0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:50.759 And yeah, I. 0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:53.000 Found I found that to be one of an interesting thing. 0:44:53.280 --> 0:44:56.400 I guess these we should discuss the exoskeleton, which is 0:44:56.400 --> 0:44:59.080 maybe the best part of the show for me. 0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:01.799 Yes, there's all a lot more exoskeletons this year. The 0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:05.520 technology is clearly matured and mature to the point that 0:45:05.560 --> 0:45:08.319 not only is it, do they have viable versions for 0:45:08.560 --> 0:45:11.680 like industrial use for people working in factories and whatnot? Right, 0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:14.000 which two years ago is what they were always advertising, 0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:16.080 is that these are things that you buy at an 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:20.080 enterprise level. And I know they're not primarily concerned with 0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:21.800 the health and well being of their workers, but actually 0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:23.960 these do improve health and well being of workers. Right. 0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:25.840 It reduces the felt load and the felt strain, It 0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:27.960 reduces the damaged knees and back, right. 0:45:27.800 --> 0:45:30.399 And that does affect their productivity, right, And it. 0:45:30.320 --> 0:45:32.440 Also affects the profit because you're not you're less likely 0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:34.319 to have workmen's comp claims. Right. It's one of those 0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:36.719 It's one of those things where it's a really good 0:45:36.760 --> 0:45:39.200 idea and the products work. There's a number of very 0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:43.600 good exoskeletons we received from a company called hyper Shell, 0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:45.920 an exoskeleton before the convention this year that you and 0:45:45.960 --> 0:45:48.280 I both wore on the floor. I have some data 0:45:48.360 --> 0:45:51.240 on it, which is that I timed my normal walking 0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:53.720 pace when I'm not particularly trying to get anywhere about 0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:56.000 nineteen minutes a mile, right, if I'm just kind of 0:45:56.000 --> 0:46:00.200 like walking casually. When I put the Hypershell on and 0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:04.080 had it at seventy five percent power mode. My walking 0:46:04.120 --> 0:46:06.440 pace was fifteen to sixteen minutes a mile, about fifteen 0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:08.440 and a half, I think is what I generally advertised. 0:46:08.880 --> 0:46:11.680 And my heart rate didn't change meaningfully. It was like 0:46:11.719 --> 0:46:14.120 one or two higher than it normally is, but not 0:46:14.280 --> 0:46:16.680 really a significant change and heart rate, right, And I 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:18.799 felt like at the end of the day, my feet 0:46:18.880 --> 0:46:20.720 heard about a normal amount for a day at cees, 0:46:20.760 --> 0:46:23.000 but my lower back in my knees felt less strained. Right. 0:46:23.040 --> 0:46:24.640 That was my experience with the iber shell. 0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:28.439 It's like an external hip almost attatches around your waist. 0:46:28.480 --> 0:46:30.319 Yeah, there's a belt around your hip and it goes 0:46:30.400 --> 0:46:32.239 up to right above your knees. Is kind of the 0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:34.080 and so it's not a huge footprint. 0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:36.560 No, it's a very small device. And yeah, goes goes 0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:38.719 on your hip. Then another strap like goes above your 0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:42.800 knee and it kind of assists or guides your leg 0:46:42.840 --> 0:46:43.759 and your hip up and down. 0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:46.320 Yeah. And for the record, folks, the basic version of 0:46:46.360 --> 0:46:48.080 this product is about a thousand dollars. The version we 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:49.960 had was about twenty one hundred dollars, right, And the 0:46:50.000 --> 0:46:52.920 battery will last about thirty kilometers. They say I didn't 0:46:52.920 --> 0:46:54.600 have any trouble getting about an eight hour day out 0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:55.239 of it. 0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:59.000 Ben, you wore it much more than I did. I 0:46:59.040 --> 0:47:00.880 wore it a little bit. Do you want to just 0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:02.720 talk about your experience with hyper Shell. 0:47:03.440 --> 0:47:03.800 Yeah. 0:47:03.880 --> 0:47:06.840 I was impressed with it. It was, first of all, Hypershell, 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:09.240 very funny. Am I like that name. It was pretty 0:47:09.280 --> 0:47:12.400 comfortable to wear, which is I always see the exoskeletons 0:47:12.400 --> 0:47:14.640 and I'm like, it looks kind of awkward. But it 0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:16.520 was like it was very easy to take on and 0:47:16.880 --> 0:47:19.279 pull off. I was, and it was comfortable, and it 0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:24.760 was pretty simple. And it basically just has two motors 0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:27.600 that sort of assist. When you move your leg, it 0:47:27.640 --> 0:47:29.760 pushes your leg and when it comes back in the step, 0:47:29.800 --> 0:47:32.160 it pushes it back down, and so it's just assisting 0:47:32.200 --> 0:47:35.319 and it tracks your leg pretty well, so there's just 0:47:35.680 --> 0:47:38.839 very little time when you're pushing against the machine. It's 0:47:38.880 --> 0:47:42.000 coordinated very well. I mean, it just functioned. It worked, 0:47:42.040 --> 0:47:43.759 and you could walk a long time. 0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:46.160 Yeah. The fact that it's like, yes, it's a product 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:49.520 that works and it does a thing that has utility, 0:47:49.880 --> 0:47:51.920 it feels increasingly rare at CEES. 0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:54.920 I was a little disappointed that the product did not 0:47:55.440 --> 0:47:58.239 pay attention to my emotions and build a relationship of 0:47:58.280 --> 0:47:59.040 empathy with me. 0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:01.600 But the walking was cut. 0:48:01.719 --> 0:48:04.720 Yeah. I asked the hyper Michelle about its opinions on Proust, 0:48:04.760 --> 0:48:05.879 and it had very little to say. 0:48:06.840 --> 0:48:08.440 It is it isn't like two main modes. It has 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:11.000 like this eco mode and it's this hyper mode, which 0:48:11.040 --> 0:48:12.040 can get really aggressive. 0:48:12.200 --> 0:48:15.520 If you turn up hyper mode of lifting your legs, 0:48:15.560 --> 0:48:15.799 you can. 0:48:15.880 --> 0:48:18.319 You can you can be bounding, yeah, and you you 0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:20.040 can even you can addres like the torque. You can 0:48:20.080 --> 0:48:22.440 address like how how much delay it has. You have 0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:24.360 a lot of different settings. The one thing that I 0:48:24.400 --> 0:48:26.319 had a lot of fun with is that there's this 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:28.920 other experimental mode I don't know if you turned it 0:48:28.920 --> 0:48:32.080 on yet, called called fitness mode. Fitness mode is cool. 0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:35.600 It does the opposite. It adds resistance to the like, 0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:38.359 so it's it's for like working out. If you want 0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:41.120 like a harder hype right, then you can you can. 0:48:41.160 --> 0:48:42.800 You can turn on fitness mode and then it'll be 0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:46.240 it's more work like how Goku trained to walk. Sure, 0:48:46.560 --> 0:48:49.160 But something I I I that's an anime thing. 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:49.640 By the way. 0:48:50.840 --> 0:48:54.200 Now, one thing that I've found out through through my 0:48:54.280 --> 0:48:57.040 own my my, my own cunning is that if you 0:48:57.200 --> 0:49:01.080 have hyper mode turned on all the way, which it 0:49:01.320 --> 0:49:05.280 was when when Ben was wearing the exoskeleton on my phone, 0:49:05.360 --> 0:49:10.240 I can switch from hypermode to fitness mode immediately, which 0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:14.120 completely halts any movement. So you can be walking at 0:49:14.120 --> 0:49:14.960 like seven. 0:49:14.760 --> 0:49:16.640 Fuck up your friends if they don't have the app. 0:49:16.880 --> 0:49:19.919 At seven, you're walking with like seven miles an hour, 0:49:20.040 --> 0:49:22.840 really fast speed walking, and then I press a button 0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:26.120 and your legs are go to an immediate halt. And 0:49:26.200 --> 0:49:28.960 it was really fun to do that for about seven hours. 0:49:29.040 --> 0:49:34.239 Yeah, I almost crashed into several people just scare to 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:34.960 get his kicks. 0:49:35.400 --> 0:49:37.800 Oh, I'm glad you found the terrorize your friend option 0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:38.080 on that. 0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:40.400 It was really fun. It was fun. 0:49:40.320 --> 0:49:42.160 Most of the time I used it. I had installed 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:43.440 the app when I got it, but I didn't think 0:49:43.480 --> 0:49:45.800 about it after that. Because there you can do everything 0:49:45.840 --> 0:49:47.680 on device, or at least you can do a lot 0:49:47.719 --> 0:49:50.000 a lot of analyze device. You get a lot more 0:49:50.000 --> 0:49:52.000 options when you're using the app, but you don't need 0:49:52.440 --> 0:49:54.279 the app to handle the basic functionality, right. 0:49:54.320 --> 0:49:57.160 I loved adjusting the like the intensity of how much 0:49:57.360 --> 0:49:59.000 how much doing? And it shows a who bunch of 0:49:59.040 --> 0:50:01.520 like applications, right you can wear yeah, hiking, like running, 0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:04.320 doing you know, lifting your work. 0:50:04.239 --> 0:50:06.560 And I like the thoughtfulness in there. You don't need 0:50:06.600 --> 0:50:09.360 the app to use this, but the app vastly the 0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:11.000 app allows you, gives you a lot of control that 0:50:11.000 --> 0:50:12.920 you're not going to get off of a simple like button. 0:50:13.120 --> 0:50:13.239 Right. 0:50:13.280 --> 0:50:13.480 Yeah. 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:14.960 It just struck me as good design. 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:17.279 It has a lot of like fidelity. Yeah yepp. 0:50:17.400 --> 0:50:20.399 So that's the Hypershell folks good exos kels, And I've 0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:24.400 used a few at various cess and this one certainly 0:50:24.400 --> 0:50:27.880 strikes me as like a very good like consumer option, 0:50:28.080 --> 0:50:30.640 like if you, as an individual want one. And I'm 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:32.239 sure still most of the sales are going to be 0:50:32.320 --> 0:50:34.960 like enterprise different companies that have like you know, want 0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:36.960 these for people who are doing like loading and unloading 0:50:37.000 --> 0:50:39.480 and like a loading dock or whatever. But I think 0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:41.759 the price prices will continue to go down and they 0:50:41.760 --> 0:50:43.400 are now hitting the point where this is like a 0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:47.360 thing that individuals can afford if they want one. And 0:50:47.440 --> 0:50:50.319 there is a lot of and Hypershell focused on this 0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:51.880 in some of their advertising, but there's a lot of 0:50:51.920 --> 0:50:54.440 utility for people with disabilities for stuff like this, right, 0:50:54.480 --> 0:50:56.560 Like that's part of the point of all of these 0:50:56.560 --> 0:50:59.120 different products and in general, when it came to the 0:50:59.120 --> 0:51:02.520 stuff where like the because there's AI in this too, 0:51:02.680 --> 0:51:04.719 Hypershol talks about it, and it's mostly just like how 0:51:04.719 --> 0:51:07.120 it learns and reacts to your motions, right that that's 0:51:07.120 --> 0:51:10.640 like machine learning. When we talk about AI, usually the 0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:13.359 useful applications you could also just call machine learning. That's 0:51:13.360 --> 0:51:16.680 what we used to say. But in general, the products 0:51:16.680 --> 0:51:19.720 that impressed me most and scared me most at CEES 0:51:19.840 --> 0:51:24.160 were healthcare related products. Right where we have a towel 0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:26.319 that reads your sweat and can tell if you have 0:51:26.320 --> 0:51:30.120 like vitamin deficiencies or if you're if you're not hydrated enough, 0:51:30.200 --> 0:51:32.560 or all of these different like the number of products 0:51:32.560 --> 0:51:35.080 where it's both like, yes, this thing can tell if 0:51:35.120 --> 0:51:39.040 you've like fatty liver disease like based on without needing 0:51:39.080 --> 0:51:41.560 to go to a doctor. And I'm sure that is 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:45.200 useful and will help a lot of people. And also 0:51:45.360 --> 0:51:48.080 all of these products are selling your data to the 0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:51.640 highest better your health data. You're biometrics. If you ask 0:51:51.680 --> 0:51:53.880 them about that, Sorry, I am not aware of that 0:51:53.920 --> 0:51:56.040 being the specific thing for the fatty liver people. That 0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:57.960 was my problem with all the health wearables, I should 0:51:58.040 --> 0:52:00.520 just to be sure, I should clarify the wearable are 0:52:00.560 --> 0:52:04.239 all on the cloud, and every one of the ones 0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:09.040 I saw has deals with the LLLM companies that they're 0:52:09.040 --> 0:52:11.440 working with and are handing your data over. 0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:14.000 Yeah, because that's how they get quote unquote smarter is 0:52:14.040 --> 0:52:16.120 through a massive data data collection. 0:52:16.480 --> 0:52:19.239 And so there's this thing where there is this kind 0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:22.160 of baseline expectation here that everyone is fine with handing 0:52:22.200 --> 0:52:24.439 over all of their data, all of their physical data, 0:52:24.440 --> 0:52:29.400 all their biometrics, which I they're like, the utility is 0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:32.040 undeniable of things that can diagnose that you need to 0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:33.920 go to the to a doctor, or can at least 0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:38.000 suggest like the existence of problems combined with and we 0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:41.520 are not at all interested in keeping that information secure. 0:52:41.920 --> 0:52:44.000 I find the kind of casual and no one will 0:52:44.000 --> 0:52:45.799 because I don't think people will. I think people will 0:52:45.800 --> 0:52:48.880 buy these products and not think about who's getting access 0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:52.919 to their biometric data. And I wish that people cared 0:52:52.920 --> 0:52:53.279 about that. 0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:55.240 And we've seen that specifically be a problem like around 0:52:55.320 --> 0:53:01.440 like pregnancy, yeah, and with states restricting abortion and the 0:53:00.840 --> 0:53:04.920 ways in which these companies are aware of people's bodies 0:53:05.760 --> 0:53:08.600 even before the actual people are. 0:53:09.120 --> 0:53:21.720 Here's an AD break. All right, we're back from ADS. 0:53:22.640 --> 0:53:24.799 So I went to Lenovo's booth. It was a bunch 0:53:24.840 --> 0:53:28.960 of laptops. I use Lenovo laptops. They make good products. 0:53:29.480 --> 0:53:31.920 It was every product there was. Either here is a 0:53:31.960 --> 0:53:33.879 new update to the line of laptops we've been making 0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:35.680 for thirty years. This is the latest one, this is 0:53:35.680 --> 0:53:38.200 the latest think pad carbon, this is the latest you know, 0:53:38.280 --> 0:53:40.600 idea pad or whatever. And then they had a couple 0:53:40.600 --> 0:53:42.480 of like the big thing that were showing was the 0:53:42.520 --> 0:53:45.640 Lenovo Twist, which is a laptop that has a screen 0:53:45.760 --> 0:53:48.120 that can twist around and so it can lay flat 0:53:48.160 --> 0:53:49.640 like a tablet, but it can also the thing that 0:53:49.640 --> 0:53:52.680 we're really showing is that it's motorized and it has 0:53:52.760 --> 0:53:54.800 AI enabled, so it can follow your face and you 0:53:54.800 --> 0:53:56.960 can set it to track an individual's face and as 0:53:57.000 --> 0:53:59.160 you move, it will move with you. Now it has 0:53:59.160 --> 0:54:01.920 two different modes. Is also you can like gesture to it, 0:54:02.040 --> 0:54:03.600 or you can command it by voice and you can 0:54:03.640 --> 0:54:07.600 say go into laptop mode, go into tablet mode, turn left, 0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:10.560 turn right. That did not work well. About half the 0:54:10.600 --> 0:54:13.920 time in the demo that I saw, it did not respond, 0:54:14.360 --> 0:54:16.399 maybe because the room was loud, maybe because the data 0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:18.920 was bad. But then he put it into face tracking 0:54:18.920 --> 0:54:20.839 mode and when you have multiple faces, you can pick 0:54:20.840 --> 0:54:23.719 which face it tracks and it swiveled to meet your 0:54:23.760 --> 0:54:27.360 face and it was cool and it did work very well. 0:54:27.600 --> 0:54:30.960 I was like, this is impressive, Like what is the use? 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:34.480 Why would you want it? And he was like, well, 0:54:34.480 --> 0:54:37.560 say you're doing a presentation, like you're a CEO or 0:54:37.600 --> 0:54:40.719 something doing a presentation. This way the screen with your 0:54:40.719 --> 0:54:42.680 text on it or the PowerPoint on it will follow 0:54:42.719 --> 0:54:45.719 you as you move around. And I was like, that 0:54:45.760 --> 0:54:48.560 could be useful. I don't feel like many people are 0:54:48.560 --> 0:54:51.920 in that situation often. I've never been in that situation 0:54:51.960 --> 0:54:54.360 in my life, and I speak in public for a 0:54:54.400 --> 0:54:58.279 living sometimes, so I guess, yeah, there probably is a 0:54:58.320 --> 0:55:00.719 CEO who would benefit. There's like of those guys like 0:55:00.800 --> 0:55:04.040 what is the This is a whole laptop product line, 0:55:04.080 --> 0:55:07.560 you have multiple versions, and I didn't get a single 0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:10.080 reason why you would want this other than that, other 0:55:10.160 --> 0:55:14.279 than for presentations. And it's genuinely impressive that it can 0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:18.200 track your face and move as you move, but why 0:55:19.239 --> 0:55:21.359 And another product they had that was in the bolt 0:55:21.440 --> 0:55:25.200 Y category was the Lenovo Legion and this is not 0:55:25.239 --> 0:55:26.880 a product that's ever going to come out, but it 0:55:26.920 --> 0:55:29.000 was like a proof of concept. So it's their gaming 0:55:29.239 --> 0:55:32.719 laptop line and it has a normal screen that can 0:55:32.760 --> 0:55:36.359 widen to be three times as long and it unfolds. 0:55:36.719 --> 0:55:39.799 They have screens that unfold, and it's cool that they 0:55:39.800 --> 0:55:42.400 could do that, and it looked neat, and it's neat 0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:45.400 that a screen has that capability. I don't want it 0:55:45.440 --> 0:55:47.360 because it also it doesn't look I could see like 0:55:47.400 --> 0:55:49.480 obviously I can see utility and like you can have 0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:52.040 a screen that gets bigger without it being a bigger 0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:54.759 footprint for the laptop. But when the screen is unfolded, 0:55:54.760 --> 0:56:00.200 there's huge like speed bump size, looking like wads of 0:56:00.320 --> 0:56:03.960 screen that are bigger and like bulge out, and it 0:56:03.960 --> 0:56:06.680 doesn't look good, like it's a bad screen. 0:56:06.760 --> 0:56:07.800 It's like a little like bubby. 0:56:08.040 --> 0:56:10.760 Yeah, when it's fully extended, it's not like a good screen. 0:56:11.400 --> 0:56:13.520 You said, it's a prove of concept piece, Like there's 0:56:13.800 --> 0:56:16.000 this thing. I mean like they're. 0:56:15.480 --> 0:56:17.960 Showing that they've they're working on folding screen technology. 0:56:18.040 --> 0:56:21.239 The Twist was was like a previous version of that. 0:56:22.120 --> 0:56:24.640 The proof of concept called the Swivel was at CES 0:56:24.719 --> 0:56:27.239 last year. Yes, and they improved it and now it's 0:56:27.239 --> 0:56:30.279 a real product called the twist, right, and maybe this 0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:33.000 could be the case for this, like like unrolling unfolding. 0:56:33.640 --> 0:56:36.880 Eventually it will be in products, right, Yeah, But I 0:56:36.920 --> 0:56:39.959 also don't think I don't see how you cannot have 0:56:40.440 --> 0:56:42.640 the bulge just kind of and a girl to the 0:56:42.640 --> 0:56:43.080 screen work. 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:45.919 The folding screens have come along way the past five years. 0:56:45.880 --> 0:56:48.800 I use one. Yeah, they also do have some pixel 0:56:49.440 --> 0:56:51.240 dying in the fold area. 0:56:51.320 --> 0:56:53.799 I mean yeah, if you're trying to buy products for longevity, 0:56:53.800 --> 0:56:56.080 probably not the thing for you. If you like it 0:56:56.120 --> 0:56:58.480 for the novelty, and for some reason have enough cash 0:56:58.480 --> 0:57:00.600 to burn, then maybe it's something I think someone will 0:57:00.600 --> 0:57:01.120 be interested in. 0:57:01.360 --> 0:57:03.200 As I was watching an unfold, there were two guys 0:57:03.200 --> 0:57:06.600 behind me and talking about it, and one of them 0:57:06.680 --> 0:57:08.080 was like, yeah, it's not a real it's not going 0:57:08.160 --> 0:57:10.080 to actually come out like that's even like the old 0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:12.600 version of the chassis. And I said, I just don't 0:57:12.600 --> 0:57:16.000 really see a use. I don't think people want a 0:57:16.120 --> 0:57:18.880 product like this, Like I'm looking at it, the screen's 0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:21.800 not great, and I just don't see who's going to 0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:25.240 buy this. And the guy behind me said, well, I 0:57:25.240 --> 0:57:28.560 think like the the use case is like billionaire CEOs 0:57:28.640 --> 0:57:30.000 and other people have a lot of money. And I 0:57:30.040 --> 0:57:32.480 looked at it. It was a Lenovo rep and I was like, hah, 0:57:32.760 --> 0:57:36.240 that's not that's the use Why who are like that's not? 0:57:36.560 --> 0:57:38.480 Like did you just say that to me? 0:57:39.320 --> 0:57:40.640 A Lenovo rep said that. 0:57:40.640 --> 0:57:42.160 Yeah, yeah, he's one of the guys doing the demos. 0:57:42.200 --> 0:57:45.560 He had a wild Lenovo badge on and I, yeah, 0:57:45.600 --> 0:57:47.280 that was weird to me. 0:57:47.440 --> 0:57:47.920 That's wild. 0:57:48.560 --> 0:57:49.760 But again, at least it was a thing. 0:57:49.920 --> 0:57:51.920 No, it was it was a physical product. 0:57:51.680 --> 0:57:53.840 Cause the other thing they had they had the workstation, 0:57:54.440 --> 0:57:56.120 which the thing they were showing was there's an app 0:57:56.160 --> 0:57:58.160 on it that looks at your face and said shows 0:57:58.160 --> 0:58:00.880 you how fatigued you are by person, and how fatigued 0:58:00.880 --> 0:58:04.520 your eyes are, and like other data. And I was like, oh, 0:58:04.560 --> 0:58:07.360 that's creepy and kind of impressive. But then I walked 0:58:07.400 --> 0:58:08.880 away and I came back and it gave me a 0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:11.520 totally different set of numbers for my fatigue. 0:58:11.120 --> 0:58:12.440 Where you differently fatigued. 0:58:12.680 --> 0:58:15.080 No, I was a second later, and I did it 0:58:15.120 --> 0:58:17.240 four times, and every time the set of numbers was 0:58:17.360 --> 0:58:20.560 like different enough that the only assumption I can make 0:58:20.600 --> 0:58:22.920 is that it was those aren't real numbers. It's just 0:58:23.120 --> 0:58:25.800 generating a number and telling you that. And it's full 0:58:25.800 --> 0:58:28.360 of shit because it wouldn't have been so different if 0:58:28.400 --> 0:58:31.600 it was actually measuring anything. It's just random numbers that 0:58:31.600 --> 0:58:34.000 it's putting on to make you think it's measuring something. 0:58:34.000 --> 0:58:36.640 It's probably trying to it. There might be just subtle 0:58:36.680 --> 0:58:39.600 things that dramatically changed the numbers. 0:58:40.040 --> 0:58:42.040 I tried. I specifically once I noticed that, tried to 0:58:42.120 --> 0:58:44.080 keep my face flat, and I did notice when you 0:58:44.120 --> 0:58:46.720 move closer and further it changes. But I think it's 0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:49.840 just programmed to as you move, alter the numbers so 0:58:49.880 --> 0:58:52.280 that you see the number moving. But every time I 0:58:52.360 --> 0:58:54.200 came on new it was a different number. It went 0:58:54.240 --> 0:58:56.240 from like when I started was like point oh two, 0:58:56.800 --> 0:58:58.320 and the second time I came back it was point 0:58:58.320 --> 0:59:01.200 five to zero. And again I did nothing. I was 0:59:01.200 --> 0:59:05.080 specifically keeping my face neutral, like it's just this, it's 0:59:05.120 --> 0:59:06.080 not a big I think. 0:59:06.120 --> 0:59:07.840 I think that type of stuff will will get better, 0:59:07.880 --> 0:59:11.280 like we've seen versions of that before that have actually 0:59:11.320 --> 0:59:12.480 done like okay. 0:59:12.320 --> 0:59:14.160 Yeah, well, but there could. 0:59:13.960 --> 0:59:16.720 Be a lot of factors into like into why why 0:59:16.760 --> 0:59:18.000 the demo goes a certain way. 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:21.280 The face tracking and facial recognition were But I went 0:59:21.320 --> 0:59:22.960 to this booth that like the big thing they were 0:59:23.000 --> 0:59:25.600 doing was like uh, driving assistant robots that would like 0:59:25.640 --> 0:59:27.560 yell at you if you fell asleep or if you 0:59:27.600 --> 0:59:30.640 like looked away and were like texting or something. It 0:59:30.680 --> 0:59:32.400 would say, like look away from your phone, look at 0:59:32.400 --> 0:59:36.960 the screen please, And there's definitely like utility there, right, 0:59:37.080 --> 0:59:38.880 Like that is probably a good idea. 0:59:38.920 --> 0:59:41.200 I mean we saw that last year at Samsung's section 0:59:41.240 --> 0:59:44.160 of Eureka Park for like like test taking, to like 0:59:44.240 --> 0:59:47.400 make sure students aren't cheating at tests, right, So it 0:59:47.480 --> 0:59:50.600 like sends an alert every time the students' eyes goes 0:59:50.640 --> 0:59:52.920 away from like the computer screen, like if they like 0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:55.800 keep like looking down like like under if they could 0:59:55.800 --> 0:59:57.080 be checking like their phone or notes. 0:59:57.240 --> 0:59:59.960 Smart Eye is the company. One thing I did appreciate 1:00:00.160 --> 1:00:02.040 it was that the little device that they put in 1:00:02.200 --> 1:00:03.920 was just like a circle with two eyes on it 1:00:04.160 --> 1:00:07.480 as opposed to like a whole dashboard. So that seemed nice. 1:00:07.520 --> 1:00:09.040 But the thing that they had the first thing I 1:00:09.120 --> 1:00:11.840 used was this optical recognition system where it learned my 1:00:11.920 --> 1:00:13.520 eyes and then when I came on, it would give 1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:15.120 my name every time I walked up to it and 1:00:15.160 --> 1:00:19.320 so like, yeah, it definitely like recognizes at least your eyes. 1:00:19.440 --> 1:00:20.120 That's a message. 1:00:20.200 --> 1:00:22.920 It could switch between different people. But it was also 1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:26.400 it can tell when you're drunk, they claim, And I 1:00:26.440 --> 1:00:30.040 couldn't tell that. I couldn't. I was high on kratom 1:00:30.160 --> 1:00:35.200 and I had smoked Delta aid, so I was definitely 1:00:35.200 --> 1:00:37.320 not sober. It didn't recognize me as not sober, so 1:00:37.320 --> 1:00:40.000 it couldn't measure those things. Maybe it can tell if 1:00:40.040 --> 1:00:42.840 you're drunk. The demo, it's it, they said it could, 1:00:42.840 --> 1:00:44.280 and they showed a woman when she was sober and 1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:46.080 when she was drunk, and they explained to me it 1:00:46.120 --> 1:00:48.080 was actually really difficult because we did this on a 1:00:48.120 --> 1:00:50.360 close track and she is really drunk and we had 1:00:50.360 --> 1:00:52.320 to jump through a lot of hoops for them to 1:00:52.400 --> 1:00:54.800 let us have a person drunk driving that's track. And 1:00:54.800 --> 1:00:56.600 I did find that kind of funny. Your response, that 1:00:56.680 --> 1:00:57.240 is how you test? 1:00:57.280 --> 1:00:58.800 That would be kind of a hard thing to test. Yeah, 1:00:58.800 --> 1:01:00.800 you could testing like simulations, right, but. 1:01:00.760 --> 1:01:02.440 They wanted like this was supposed to be a perf 1:01:02.520 --> 1:01:05.200 concept in vehicle and it'll shut down the car. I 1:01:05.200 --> 1:01:07.520 did have some people posting when I posted a video 1:01:07.560 --> 1:01:09.920 of that that like I have this condition with my 1:01:09.920 --> 1:01:12.200 eyes or that condition with my eyes, and normal optical 1:01:12.240 --> 1:01:14.880 recognition stuff doesn't work with me. Is this going to 1:01:14.920 --> 1:01:17.040 show that I'm drunk or is it going to be 1:01:17.120 --> 1:01:19.040 able to And I actually don't know. Again, I'm not 1:01:19.040 --> 1:01:21.080 I was not able to test the product that that 1:01:21.240 --> 1:01:24.400 does seem like a concern I would hope they've dealt with, 1:01:24.480 --> 1:01:27.680 But also I kind of doubt they did because usually 1:01:28.280 --> 1:01:29.080 there's gaps. 1:01:29.360 --> 1:01:31.320 I mean, I could see a company like this partnering 1:01:31.320 --> 1:01:33.880 with like an insurance company or partnering with like certain 1:01:33.920 --> 1:01:36.240 cars that would like, yeah, stop the car from being 1:01:36.240 --> 1:01:39.360 able to be moved if it detects the driver as drunk, yes, 1:01:39.400 --> 1:01:42.000 and how like false positives would play into that. And 1:01:42.040 --> 1:01:43.680 then you just like are like locked out of your 1:01:43.720 --> 1:01:47.160 car right because this robot thinks you're intoxicated and actually 1:01:47.200 --> 1:01:48.680 you're fine. You just like look like that. 1:01:49.000 --> 1:01:51.080 And I could also see them like rolling this product 1:01:51.080 --> 1:01:53.120 out and it hits like Thailand or something, and then 1:01:53.160 --> 1:01:55.360 there being a big store where it's like they didn't 1:01:55.440 --> 1:01:58.360 test this on any people of like Thaie Ancestry, and 1:01:58.400 --> 1:02:00.720 I actually sees all of them as drunk because of 1:02:00.760 --> 1:02:02.640 like an error in the coding sure, and being like 1:02:02.720 --> 1:02:06.480 oh great, like like I'm not again smart ie. From 1:02:06.480 --> 1:02:09.560 what I can tell, their technology worked, but in order 1:02:09.640 --> 1:02:13.760 to adequately like review and test it, you do need 1:02:14.320 --> 1:02:15.840 you need more access to it than they're giving it 1:02:15.880 --> 1:02:17.840 the show. I can't actually tell you if it works 1:02:17.880 --> 1:02:19.600 a determined when people are drunk. I can just show 1:02:19.600 --> 1:02:22.120 you they had a video claiming it does so. 1:02:22.440 --> 1:02:27.120 One product that I feel at best mixed about I 1:02:27.440 --> 1:02:31.080 first saw in the CS Innovation Awards section. This is 1:02:31.080 --> 1:02:35.960 called Self Insight Therapy Resolve XR from South Korea. 1:02:36.320 --> 1:02:38.160 Oh, one of my two favorite Koreas by the way, 1:02:38.280 --> 1:02:39.760 just since we're talking Korea. 1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:44.440 This is a VR therapy program that is supposed to 1:02:44.560 --> 1:02:48.800 give give you a final goodbye with a deceased loved 1:02:48.840 --> 1:02:52.479 one in VR. Yes, this was my initial reaction as well. 1:02:53.120 --> 1:02:55.400 And like I've seen Jon, I've seen versions of this 1:02:55.440 --> 1:02:59.880 before where it's like an LM or like an AI yeah, 1:03:00.080 --> 1:03:02.680 pretending to be your like dead wife that you're like 1:03:03.040 --> 1:03:05.880 hug in VR. Sure, and that type of stuff. I've 1:03:06.000 --> 1:03:09.640 I've generally felt bad about some of the people who've 1:03:09.680 --> 1:03:11.240 used it, like in like you know, like the promotional 1:03:11.320 --> 1:03:14.000 videos are you know, crying, and I feel and like 1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:15.120 the product in a way. 1:03:15.240 --> 1:03:17.680 As a friend, I will promise you if that moment 1:03:17.720 --> 1:03:20.000 ever comes for you all pretend to be your dead wife. 1:03:20.080 --> 1:03:23.560 I don't even know what to say that I've but 1:03:24.200 --> 1:03:30.000 what I found interesting about Resolve XR is that the 1:03:30.000 --> 1:03:32.960 the avatar of your deceased loved one is not that 1:03:34.600 --> 1:03:38.240 is not actually an AI, nor is it a fully 1:03:38.400 --> 1:03:43.440 pre recorded like prescripted like simulation. It is being puppeted 1:03:44.000 --> 1:03:46.600 by a therapist that you are working with as a 1:03:46.680 --> 1:03:51.560 part of the Gestalt empty chair therapy technique. And this 1:03:51.560 --> 1:03:53.320 this is what the product is. So you're working with 1:03:53.360 --> 1:03:56.440 a therapist who is using text to speech, that is 1:03:56.880 --> 1:04:00.000 talking as your deceased, as your deceased loved one as 1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:02.720 a part of this therapy exercise. If you have if 1:04:02.760 --> 1:04:05.760 you have recordings of their voice, the AI will try 1:04:05.800 --> 1:04:07.680 to replicate their voice. That's something I feel a little 1:04:07.680 --> 1:04:10.120 bit odd about. But like that is like the one 1:04:10.160 --> 1:04:12.160 like aspect of like que unquote AI that's being used 1:04:12.160 --> 1:04:14.960 here is for is for the voice cloning. And then 1:04:15.000 --> 1:04:17.560 there is like a pre a prerecorded set of like 1:04:17.640 --> 1:04:20.560 gestures that someone does in like motion capture, but the 1:04:20.560 --> 1:04:22.720 actual like like live puppeting of this thing is done 1:04:22.760 --> 1:04:25.000 by a therapist that you were sitting across from. But 1:04:25.120 --> 1:04:28.720 you have you know the VR goggle song mm hm. 1:04:28.760 --> 1:04:30.880 And this is this is not supposed to be something 1:04:30.920 --> 1:04:32.840 that you do like routinely. It's not like, oh, I 1:04:33.320 --> 1:04:35.800 like like I'm talking to my wife like my wife 1:04:35.880 --> 1:04:38.640 is in VR. It's this is a therapeutic exercise meant 1:04:38.640 --> 1:04:41.960 for people dealing with extreme grief, specifically when loved ones 1:04:41.960 --> 1:04:44.880 have been taken away during like like like accidents like 1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:47.880 they specifically mentioned like a plane crash that happened a 1:04:47.960 --> 1:04:50.000 year ago. And so just for people like an extreme 1:04:50.080 --> 1:04:54.240 extreme grief to give them like closure through this therapeutic exercise. 1:04:54.480 --> 1:04:55.720 And this is this is this is the this is 1:04:55.720 --> 1:04:56.320 the pamphlet. 1:04:57.800 --> 1:05:00.200 I went through a lot of whiplash because obviously my 1:05:00.240 --> 1:05:02.960 first assumption was this is an evil product where you 1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:05.080 like feed your loved one social media data and it 1:05:05.080 --> 1:05:07.600 pretends to be them, and it's not that, and it's 1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:10.240 good that it's not that, But then it's like it's 1:05:10.360 --> 1:05:14.919 being basically a therapist puppeting your dead loved one. There's 1:05:14.920 --> 1:05:18.120 a couple of conclusions I have. First off, these people 1:05:18.160 --> 1:05:21.560 are trying to be ethical. It does seem it seems 1:05:21.560 --> 1:05:25.880 like they care and they are attempting to provide something 1:05:25.920 --> 1:05:28.880 that is useful to people who are suffering. I also 1:05:29.040 --> 1:05:32.640 think this might fundamentally this idea might be fundamentally unethical 1:05:32.640 --> 1:05:34.520 and impossible to do well. So I think this might 1:05:34.560 --> 1:05:36.640 be a case of someone trying to do the most 1:05:36.640 --> 1:05:39.439 ethical version of something that cannot be done ethically, which 1:05:39.480 --> 1:05:42.120 is a category of AI device that I've seen this year. 1:05:42.800 --> 1:05:46.400 It's tricky because on one hand, you know, as I 1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:50.120 was talking to the woman at the booth and reading 1:05:50.160 --> 1:05:53.240 through the materials they had, it seemed like they were 1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:57.160 selling this as this is just sort of augmentation to 1:05:57.280 --> 1:06:01.200 a therapeutic practice that has already done. We're just putting 1:06:01.200 --> 1:06:04.640 a you know, a digitally generated face and voice to it. 1:06:05.320 --> 1:06:08.440 But it's so I mean, it's so easy to imagine 1:06:08.640 --> 1:06:15.400 just this company seems somewhat ethically focused. But yeah, all 1:06:15.520 --> 1:06:17.840 kinds of directions you could go in this. It's a 1:06:17.920 --> 1:06:20.880 Pandora's box, a little bit of like, yeah, where where 1:06:20.920 --> 1:06:25.560 we're starting to venture into creating replicas of the dead? 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:28.760 Yeah, and that is And I went to a panel 1:06:29.000 --> 1:06:31.760 kind of in the same tone on mental health and 1:06:31.880 --> 1:06:34.920 AI that I thought was going to be an opportunity 1:06:34.960 --> 1:06:38.000 for me to harass an executive during a Q and 1:06:38.080 --> 1:06:41.000 A because which is which is one of your favorite activity? 1:06:41.040 --> 1:06:44.720 Everything to do with CES and there literally is like AI. 1:06:45.000 --> 1:06:47.600 There's ample data that it is a disaster for mental health, 1:06:47.680 --> 1:06:49.600 not just AI psychosis, but there are a lot of 1:06:49.640 --> 1:06:52.080 things that it makes worse, and a lot of problems 1:06:52.080 --> 1:06:54.200 that it causes people, and a lot of problems that 1:06:54.240 --> 1:06:58.320 it exacerbates, including like suicidal ideation. This is documented, there's 1:06:58.400 --> 1:07:01.200 data on it. So that's what I was showing up 1:07:01.560 --> 1:07:03.120 prepared to do that, and what I actually got was 1:07:03.160 --> 1:07:06.840 an actual clinical therapist who was trying to talk about 1:07:08.280 --> 1:07:11.720 who first started by kind by very much admitting the 1:07:11.880 --> 1:07:14.560 dangers with AI and the things that it harms in 1:07:14.600 --> 1:07:16.320 terms of mental health, and then was trying to say 1:07:16.360 --> 1:07:21.000 what would a responsible and ethical like therapeutic AI do. 1:07:21.440 --> 1:07:25.360 And her argument was, we know how many people need 1:07:25.400 --> 1:07:27.439 therapy and don't have access to it within the United 1:07:27.480 --> 1:07:31.640 States and worldwide, and some sort of automated BOT system 1:07:31.760 --> 1:07:35.080 that handles aspects of therapy might be the only way 1:07:35.120 --> 1:07:38.000 to provide affordable therapy to the number of people who 1:07:38.040 --> 1:07:42.480 needed who can't currently afford it, and I disagree, or 1:07:42.480 --> 1:07:45.000 at least I don't think that. I don't disagree. It's 1:07:45.040 --> 1:07:48.120 accurate that there's way more people who need mental health 1:07:48.280 --> 1:07:52.840 than can afford it. Right, that's undeniable, undebatable. I disagree 1:07:52.840 --> 1:07:55.640 that AI can help this problem in any meaningful way, 1:07:55.760 --> 1:07:57.720 and in fact think it will only make it worse. 1:07:58.360 --> 1:08:00.720 But I understand that she was coming at this from 1:08:00.720 --> 1:08:05.240 a I am attempting to define what a responsible, a 1:08:05.320 --> 1:08:08.760 therapeutic AI might do, and through the course of that 1:08:08.880 --> 1:08:11.040 I believe she is partially because I talked to her 1:08:11.040 --> 1:08:14.360 about this afterwards too. She thinks it might be possible, 1:08:14.720 --> 1:08:17.200 but is not convinced that it is in fact possible 1:08:17.280 --> 1:08:21.400 for there to be an AI therapy system that is 1:08:21.840 --> 1:08:24.720 actually useful. And one of the things she brought up 1:08:24.840 --> 1:08:29.040 was that in traditional AI chatbots, the big ones are 1:08:29.080 --> 1:08:32.720 all programmed to gas you up in order to keep 1:08:32.760 --> 1:08:34.559 you using them, right, the program to make you want 1:08:34.600 --> 1:08:36.479 to continue to interact with them, and so it does 1:08:36.520 --> 1:08:38.559 things that are really bad for your mental health and 1:08:38.560 --> 1:08:41.400 that can exacerbate and cause new problems, right because of 1:08:41.400 --> 1:08:45.160 the way these are programmed. So any responsible AI therapy 1:08:45.439 --> 1:08:48.200 chatbot would have to not do that, which I'm like, 1:08:48.240 --> 1:08:51.640 that is true, that you can't be a useful therapeutic 1:08:51.680 --> 1:08:54.920 tool that only praises people. Right, that's just not a thing. 1:08:55.280 --> 1:08:57.120 But when I came to afterwards, I was like, my 1:08:57.640 --> 1:08:59.320 issue is I think you're right about that, but I 1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:03.600 also think if you're saying the AI therapy bot is 1:09:03.640 --> 1:09:05.559 going to be a separate product that does not do 1:09:05.640 --> 1:09:08.760 these things. Number one, it's a high bard to get 1:09:08.760 --> 1:09:11.120 people to pay money for a tool when they already 1:09:11.120 --> 1:09:13.599 have the chat bot. And number two, if the chatbot 1:09:13.600 --> 1:09:15.920 that is good for them doesn't do the thing that 1:09:15.960 --> 1:09:19.280 makes it addictive, people will continue to use the addictive 1:09:19.280 --> 1:09:22.679 one for therapy. And she said, yeah, that's my worry too. 1:09:23.120 --> 1:09:25.479 And so I came away from being like, she's trying 1:09:25.479 --> 1:09:28.080 to explore if this can be done, and my conclusion 1:09:28.080 --> 1:09:29.719 based on her exploration as it can't. 1:09:30.000 --> 1:09:33.080 But it's so interesting that she said that because she 1:09:33.320 --> 1:09:36.240 and this is I mean me hearing you talk about her, 1:09:36.360 --> 1:09:38.519 she sounds like the only person who is thinking about 1:09:38.560 --> 1:09:39.000 this at all. 1:09:39.120 --> 1:09:39.920 Yes, that's convention. 1:09:40.000 --> 1:09:42.160 She was the only person on the panel. Yeah, of 1:09:42.680 --> 1:09:45.320 just it was a speech, not a panel, really, yeah. 1:09:44.880 --> 1:09:48.400 Of thinking about that, what are the social relations behind 1:09:48.439 --> 1:09:51.080 these technologies, because of course that's the main question here. 1:09:51.160 --> 1:09:54.800 Is a technology that can generate that can have a 1:09:54.800 --> 1:09:58.439 conversation with you? Is one thing It's not that really 1:09:58.439 --> 1:10:00.720 doesn't seem like the war of the problem so much. Well, 1:10:00.800 --> 1:10:03.479 all the machines that are having conversations are driven by 1:10:03.560 --> 1:10:07.400 very specific incentives, you know, to interact with their users 1:10:07.400 --> 1:10:09.680 in a particular way that has everything to do with 1:10:09.800 --> 1:10:14.880 the social relationships of their production and use. And the 1:10:14.920 --> 1:10:19.639 notion that technology would have any connection to social relations 1:10:19.680 --> 1:10:23.400 at all is completely absent from any discussion of any 1:10:23.400 --> 1:10:25.360 product I've seen here. 1:10:25.360 --> 1:10:31.599 Speaking of social relations between products and human beings, here's 1:10:31.600 --> 1:10:45.479 some ads. We're back and God, I really love those 1:10:45.560 --> 1:10:49.679 Chumba casino ads. They remind me that whenever I'm out 1:10:49.720 --> 1:10:52.360 in the world, sitting down with my loved ones, you know, 1:10:52.840 --> 1:10:56.679 watching the big Game, I could be gambling, and kind 1:10:56.720 --> 1:10:58.360 of every other moment of my life that I'm not 1:10:58.479 --> 1:10:59.439 gambling is wasted. 1:10:59.720 --> 1:11:01.000 Robert, have you heard of Calshi? 1:11:01.680 --> 1:11:01.840 No? 1:11:02.240 --> 1:11:04.840 So you know about politics, right, I love politics, And 1:11:04.880 --> 1:11:07.240 you know about insider trading, right, I love insider What 1:11:07.280 --> 1:11:10.200 if you could do insider trading about all of politics 1:11:10.280 --> 1:11:12.840 on the exclusive inferation that you learn as a journalist. 1:11:13.080 --> 1:11:14.880 Wow, that sounds legal. 1:11:15.360 --> 1:11:19.759 It shockingly is there's actually zero federal or state regulation 1:11:20.360 --> 1:11:21.760 affecting this whatsoever. 1:11:21.920 --> 1:11:23.280 That's the Calcie guarantee. 1:11:23.280 --> 1:11:25.559 There is no regulatory mechanism that exists on a state 1:11:25.640 --> 1:11:27.120 level to regulate this behavior. 1:11:27.240 --> 1:11:28.840 Now years and you say that, but that's literally just 1:11:28.880 --> 1:11:30.040 what's printed above their booth. 1:11:32.080 --> 1:11:35.320 Let's talk about maybe the worst product that I saw 1:11:35.320 --> 1:11:37.599 at CEES child Free Trust. 1:11:38.240 --> 1:11:42.400 Boy, So what is it like a software that lets 1:11:42.400 --> 1:11:43.120 you make a trust? 1:11:43.760 --> 1:11:49.479 This software was marketed towards child free people. They lead 1:11:49.560 --> 1:11:53.000 with twenty five percent of Americans don't have children and 1:11:53.280 --> 1:11:56.840 don't intend to have them. Hell yeah yeah, And so 1:11:57.000 --> 1:11:59.880 their idea is that they right here. Child Free Trust 1:11:59.920 --> 1:12:03.720 is the first comprehensive nationwide solution providing medical and financial 1:12:03.720 --> 1:12:07.839 poa executor and trustee representation for child free and permanently 1:12:07.920 --> 1:12:11.920 childless people. So if you are childless and you don't 1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:16.960 want to burden your loved ones, that's their wording with 1:12:17.360 --> 1:12:20.320 you know, your estate plan when you die, This is 1:12:20.360 --> 1:12:24.160 a company that will do that for you. What's interesting, though, 1:12:24.400 --> 1:12:26.680 is that I asked them. I said, well, look, you 1:12:26.720 --> 1:12:30.360 know this presumably already happens, what is in place, and. 1:12:30.520 --> 1:12:31.960 I have a trust in no children. 1:12:32.120 --> 1:12:35.880 Yes, yeah, Well does state appoints someone to handle this, 1:12:35.960 --> 1:12:39.120 they'll they will first see if that you have, if 1:12:39.160 --> 1:12:42.280 you have any loved ones who would want to take 1:12:42.320 --> 1:12:42.880 on these duties. 1:12:42.920 --> 1:12:44.840 And obviously people have kids aren't capable of love. 1:12:44.920 --> 1:12:48.280 So yeah, yeah, they a little bit, I mean strangely 1:12:48.439 --> 1:12:51.280 like so it's it's an it's a product that is 1:12:51.280 --> 1:12:54.880 for we already have a public service that searches for 1:12:55.000 --> 1:12:57.760 people loved ones that could take on these responsibilities, and 1:12:57.840 --> 1:12:59.840 if it cannot find those, it takes it on as 1:12:59.840 --> 1:13:02.920 a as a public good. So it was a product 1:13:02.960 --> 1:13:05.760 completely without purpose. It was like you, in order to 1:13:05.880 --> 1:13:09.080 use this, you just have to be intent on separating 1:13:09.120 --> 1:13:12.120 yourself from society in this way. You have no loved 1:13:12.120 --> 1:13:15.360 ones presumably or you don't want them involved in your 1:13:15.479 --> 1:13:18.240 estate planning. You also don't want the state involved, so 1:13:18.400 --> 1:13:21.040 it requires this third party company. 1:13:21.120 --> 1:13:23.559 It was just a very strange product the way they 1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:24.120 presented it. 1:13:24.200 --> 1:13:26.600 Well, I mean it's again, I have a trust and 1:13:26.640 --> 1:13:30.040 a will. If you don't have a kid, and you 1:13:30.080 --> 1:13:32.680 don't have like a you're not like married, or you 1:13:32.720 --> 1:13:35.599 don't have a surviving spouse, like, yes, the state will 1:13:35.600 --> 1:13:38.400 appoint somebody, but that process is slower and more expensive. 1:13:38.520 --> 1:13:40.720 If you want to avoid the cost, or if you 1:13:40.720 --> 1:13:42.840 want to avoid like having a trust and a will 1:13:43.280 --> 1:13:45.320 is not an unreasonable thing, especially if you want to 1:13:45.320 --> 1:13:46.880 make sure if you have assets and you want to 1:13:46.920 --> 1:13:49.080 make sure they go a specific place, you want to 1:13:49.080 --> 1:13:50.520 donate them somewhere whatever. 1:13:50.600 --> 1:13:53.000 Well, and like a lawyer can handle that, a lawyer. 1:13:52.720 --> 1:13:55.639 Should handle That is what I'm saying is you shouldn't 1:13:55.720 --> 1:13:56.520 use an app. 1:13:56.400 --> 1:13:59.200 Specifically, what they do that the lawyer can't is they 1:13:59.439 --> 1:14:02.719 provide a service for the corporation to execute power of attorney. 1:14:03.640 --> 1:14:07.880 And that is the main thing. So this is the 1:14:07.880 --> 1:14:10.920 most anti social This is the most anti social service 1:14:10.960 --> 1:14:12.519 I've seen it all of ces because it's built on 1:14:12.560 --> 1:14:14.519 this idea that if you have no kids and you 1:14:14.560 --> 1:14:16.840 are so separated from the rest of your family, like 1:14:16.880 --> 1:14:20.200 you don't trust any siblings, you don't trust a spouse, 1:14:20.240 --> 1:14:22.679 a partner maybe you don't have one, you don't trust parents, 1:14:22.760 --> 1:14:26.040 you don't even trust a friend to to like do 1:14:26.120 --> 1:14:29.679 this for you. Instead that you turn to a company 1:14:29.720 --> 1:14:32.200 a private company. You don't even trust the state, right 1:14:32.240 --> 1:14:34.679 because the state can handle this. It is a private 1:14:34.720 --> 1:14:37.479 corporation that it's going to handle your will, your estate 1:14:37.640 --> 1:14:43.080 and power of attorney. And that that's what really, that's 1:14:43.120 --> 1:14:44.760 what really got me because I asked them it's like, yeah, 1:14:44.800 --> 1:14:46.800 like a lawyer can handle all this, and like, well, no, 1:14:46.920 --> 1:14:50.040 regular lawyer can't be power of attorney. And I was like, oh, 1:14:50.080 --> 1:14:52.160 this is the core of your product actually is that 1:14:52.200 --> 1:14:54.160 it's it's for people who are so anti social, who 1:14:54.760 --> 1:14:57.400 have so separated themselves that they don't trust, They don't 1:14:57.560 --> 1:15:01.400 trust anyone with this. You don't have any loved ones. Really, 1:15:01.520 --> 1:15:03.519 it's not just about being child free. No, it's like 1:15:03.560 --> 1:15:06.960 it's about you you do not exist like in a 1:15:07.000 --> 1:15:08.360 social network whatsoever. 1:15:08.479 --> 1:15:10.040 Because I can see the kind of people who might 1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:12.960 need this are people or might want this are not 1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:14.880 the people kind of people who'd use apps, because the 1:15:15.320 --> 1:15:18.120 actual the group of people who definitely don't have kids 1:15:18.160 --> 1:15:20.200 and also may not have any living friends are people 1:15:20.200 --> 1:15:22.800 who are incredibly elderly. It's not even a factor of 1:15:22.840 --> 1:15:24.639 like their life is bleak that it's just you lived 1:15:24.640 --> 1:15:26.720 way too long. You literally don't have anyone left that 1:15:26.760 --> 1:15:29.080 you knew, But they're not going to use an app, 1:15:29.920 --> 1:15:32.640 Like that's just not how they think about. If they 1:15:32.640 --> 1:15:34.800 don't have a lawyer, they'll let have the state handle it. 1:15:34.840 --> 1:15:37.160 But like they're not they're not going to download the 1:15:37.240 --> 1:15:39.559 child free app. That's one hundred and four year old 1:15:39.560 --> 1:15:43.559 Okinawan woman to like handle this for them. There's like 1:15:43.600 --> 1:15:46.080 a graph on the bottom that here's like features and 1:15:46.120 --> 1:15:49.519 like which different versions have which features, and the three 1:15:49.560 --> 1:15:52.280 features are child free, trust, trust and will and then 1:15:52.640 --> 1:15:55.280 free will as one word, but the ws capitalized. I 1:15:55.360 --> 1:15:57.439 just like seeing free well and then checks and exis 1:15:57.640 --> 1:15:59.439 at the bottom. You don't get free well on all 1:15:59.439 --> 1:16:01.960 of the options. Sorry, what is free will as a 1:16:02.000 --> 1:16:04.760 surface scarrison? Are they saying the machine has it? Or 1:16:04.800 --> 1:16:07.120 is it literally a free will making service? 1:16:07.160 --> 1:16:09.200 It's I think I think it's creating a will and 1:16:09.200 --> 1:16:11.080 they're saying at free will. I think that's what I think. 1:16:11.080 --> 1:16:14.240 That's what they're doing. Okay, I mean but yeah, no, 1:16:14.960 --> 1:16:18.479 and this wasn't This was in Eureka part yeah, which 1:16:18.479 --> 1:16:21.519 is where the cool little products are. That's bad. 1:16:21.720 --> 1:16:23.280 Yeah, it was really bizarre. 1:16:24.000 --> 1:16:26.040 Yeah, there's a fun bit that you could do if 1:16:26.080 --> 1:16:27.320 you had the money to show up and just do 1:16:27.400 --> 1:16:30.439 bits at CEES where it's like this company can handle 1:16:30.479 --> 1:16:33.280 all of your end of life care and decisions and 1:16:33.479 --> 1:16:35.280 just a booth with a handgun on the table. 1:16:35.920 --> 1:16:38.600 So let's talk about to close, let's just discuss like 1:16:38.600 --> 1:16:41.439 what this CEES kind of means in general. We already 1:16:41.479 --> 1:16:43.920 kind of discussed like the AI angle of this, and 1:16:43.960 --> 1:16:46.559 that's something that we've seen throughout this show is these 1:16:46.680 --> 1:16:50.719 these massive banners hanging everywhere about how CES is where 1:16:50.760 --> 1:16:54.240 innovators show k yeah, absolutely, and and how everything's based 1:16:54.240 --> 1:16:57.440 around innovation and creativity and this is where everything descends 1:16:57.439 --> 1:17:00.559 from and this sort of like like tech idealism that 1:17:00.640 --> 1:17:05.040 the world is based around these concepts of innovation and creativity, 1:17:05.479 --> 1:17:09.240 and they do not mention any any physical way that 1:17:09.280 --> 1:17:11.760 actually comes into the world or the sort of mechanisms 1:17:11.760 --> 1:17:16.200 of the world that allow innovation to take place. And Ben, 1:17:16.400 --> 1:17:18.759 we we've been talking a lot about this the past 1:17:18.920 --> 1:17:19.679 like two days. 1:17:20.200 --> 1:17:22.920 I mean, it's all we're solving all the problems of 1:17:22.960 --> 1:17:26.840 the world and we're fixing everything, and it's all eternal sunshine, 1:17:27.360 --> 1:17:31.320 and where that comes from is innovation and creativity. But 1:17:31.400 --> 1:17:34.880 those are just yeah, totally abstract quantities. There's not even 1:17:34.880 --> 1:17:38.720 a subject given of like innovators, Well, who who is that? 1:17:39.200 --> 1:17:40.439 Are the product you're innovating? 1:17:40.600 --> 1:17:41.960 Yeah, if you is that? 1:17:42.320 --> 1:17:43.120 The owner? 1:17:43.360 --> 1:17:45.640 Is that the workers who make it? I mean, no 1:17:45.760 --> 1:17:47.800 mention of labor at any point in any of this, 1:17:47.880 --> 1:17:49.320 which I mean that's a given, but. 1:17:49.200 --> 1:17:50.920 Well that's not true. They talked about all the labories 1:17:50.960 --> 1:17:51.559 you could replace. 1:17:52.000 --> 1:17:55.120 Yeah, all right, you can, we don't need them. It's 1:17:55.200 --> 1:17:59.400 the innovation is drawn the full circle, it produces itself. Now, Yeah, 1:17:59.479 --> 1:18:02.519 just that this abstract quantum of I mean, it really 1:18:02.560 --> 1:18:04.800 is kind of interesting. It does become a blur of 1:18:04.840 --> 1:18:09.080 like who is the magical font producing all of this stuff? 1:18:09.120 --> 1:18:11.879 It almost sometimes it almost seems like it's the consumer. 1:18:11.960 --> 1:18:15.559 It's sort of suggesting is like it's actually you who 1:18:15.640 --> 1:18:19.120 creates all of this. It was very vague, very strange. 1:18:19.280 --> 1:18:20.520 M h. 1:18:20.560 --> 1:18:22.840 We went to that one panel about like trying to 1:18:22.880 --> 1:18:26.400 address underserved people who are who are like cut out 1:18:26.439 --> 1:18:29.000 of tech and like cut out of cut out of 1:18:29.000 --> 1:18:30.160 all of these industries. 1:18:30.600 --> 1:18:33.480 Yeah, I mean it was very nondescript about who exactly 1:18:33.520 --> 1:18:34.160 that was. 1:18:34.840 --> 1:18:35.040 Yeah. 1:18:35.040 --> 1:18:38.080 They had people talking for the that are paralyzed veterans. 1:18:38.320 --> 1:18:42.680 Someone from the NAACP, and I mean it was just 1:18:43.040 --> 1:18:46.439 one again. There was no actual discussion of the social 1:18:46.479 --> 1:18:50.720 relationships behind technology. It was just entirely about this technology 1:18:50.840 --> 1:18:54.679 is here, It is the first priority, so everything else 1:18:54.800 --> 1:18:59.000 has to follow after. And yeah, very very unclear about 1:18:59.040 --> 1:19:01.360 they They would all talk about what technology could be 1:19:01.479 --> 1:19:05.800 used for, but entirely nondescript about where that process comes from, 1:19:05.800 --> 1:19:08.479 Who's making those decisions, where those centers of power are. 1:19:08.960 --> 1:19:11.880 The reach to have an for existing brands and companies 1:19:11.920 --> 1:19:15.000 that make real things to have an AI angle was 1:19:15.320 --> 1:19:18.320 the most obvious and tortured thing that I saw, And 1:19:18.600 --> 1:19:20.040 like one of my favorite booths every year is the 1:19:20.080 --> 1:19:23.280 Jackery booth. Jacqueery makes batteries and solar panels, and they 1:19:23.280 --> 1:19:26.240 make pretty good batteries and solar panels for like expeditions 1:19:26.439 --> 1:19:28.240 for camping, like the rugged that they can and I 1:19:28.320 --> 1:19:31.320 use them. They're good products. And this year they had 1:19:31.320 --> 1:19:32.880 the new addition of all their batteries and the new 1:19:33.040 --> 1:19:35.519 edition of all their solar panels, and as generally happens 1:19:35.560 --> 1:19:38.280 with technology, everything's a little better than it was last year. 1:19:38.640 --> 1:19:41.479 But there's not much room for AI aside from like 1:19:41.760 --> 1:19:44.599 the batteries have AI by which they mean there's like 1:19:44.720 --> 1:19:48.160 a learning algorithm that can determine like how to optimize 1:19:48.200 --> 1:19:50.200 aspects of like power draw or whatever. 1:19:50.280 --> 1:19:50.360 Like. 1:19:50.439 --> 1:19:52.640 Sure, that's not really AI in the way that the 1:19:52.680 --> 1:19:56.320 AI industry means it, but I'm sure sounds real. But 1:19:56.600 --> 1:19:58.720 because that wasn't enough, they had this thing that they 1:19:58.760 --> 1:20:01.040 called their Mars rover, which was not a Mars rover. 1:20:01.520 --> 1:20:03.000 I don't think we'll ever go on Mars. Does not 1:20:03.040 --> 1:20:04.920 look like it could survive on Mars. But it is 1:20:05.000 --> 1:20:08.880 a rover that is a big battery on wheels that 1:20:09.120 --> 1:20:11.960 is intelligent and can drive itself and has solar panels 1:20:11.960 --> 1:20:14.200 that slide out. And the use case for this was 1:20:14.640 --> 1:20:16.840 it will travel around and can go to where the 1:20:16.840 --> 1:20:18.760 sun is in order to charge itself up and then 1:20:18.800 --> 1:20:21.120 head to you to offer you outlets when you're doing work. 1:20:21.160 --> 1:20:25.360 And it's like, is a robot that moves? Really? I 1:20:25.400 --> 1:20:27.439 can see like two points in my life where I 1:20:27.520 --> 1:20:29.600 might have gotten used to who's gonna buy this for? 1:20:29.680 --> 1:20:29.760 What? 1:20:30.320 --> 1:20:33.200 Where will it be deployed? It just roams around outside 1:20:33.360 --> 1:20:36.000 this expensive machine that does not look like it should 1:20:36.040 --> 1:20:39.400 get rained on too much, and finds the sun to 1:20:39.479 --> 1:20:41.600 charge itself up and then heads over to you to 1:20:41.760 --> 1:20:44.400 charge device. It can't charge a home. It doesn't power 1:20:44.400 --> 1:20:46.559 a house. It's like a little robot. 1:20:47.960 --> 1:20:49.680 Is it really camping? I don't know. 1:20:49.840 --> 1:20:51.920 That was unclear. They showed it being used, and they 1:20:51.920 --> 1:20:54.559 showed it as like I'm outside and using power tools. 1:20:54.560 --> 1:20:56.519 The robot came up to me so I could plug in, 1:20:57.000 --> 1:20:57.400 and like. 1:20:57.320 --> 1:20:59.080 I guess you could take like the park, you could 1:20:59.080 --> 1:20:59.920 take it to park. 1:21:00.320 --> 1:21:01.000 But it's big. 1:21:01.160 --> 1:21:01.880 It is pretty big. 1:21:01.920 --> 1:21:05.519 It's like a sizeable machine. It probably weighed eighty pounds. 1:21:06.000 --> 1:21:09.599 And again, like, it's impressive that it can go seek 1:21:09.640 --> 1:21:12.360 out the sun to charge itself up. It's impressive that 1:21:12.400 --> 1:21:14.320 you could like call it or like call it with 1:21:14.360 --> 1:21:15.880 an app and it will come over to you. And 1:21:15.880 --> 1:21:20.040 there's an outlet. Who what is the Who will buy this? Why? 1:21:20.360 --> 1:21:21.519 When that is not one? 1:21:21.680 --> 1:21:24.880 Again? I can think working in my yard, working out 1:21:24.960 --> 1:21:26.960 you know, when I'm shearing the goats or whatever, I 1:21:27.000 --> 1:21:29.160 have had to carry a battery with me because there's 1:21:29.200 --> 1:21:31.320 not an outlet out there and the shears need a battery. 1:21:31.760 --> 1:21:34.040 And yeah, I guess it would be easier if the 1:21:34.160 --> 1:21:36.360 robot moved there. But this has to be like twenty 1:21:36.400 --> 1:21:40.920 thousand dollars I'm not gonna buy a robot to do that. 1:21:41.040 --> 1:21:43.080 I can just pick up a battery and walk with 1:21:43.120 --> 1:21:47.680 it one hundred feet. Who will use this? Why it's 1:21:47.720 --> 1:21:50.400 not going to Mars? I assure you it's not going 1:21:50.439 --> 1:21:53.120 to Mars. Again, I wouldn't want it to be left 1:21:53.120 --> 1:21:56.720 out in the rain. And I love the Jaggery products. 1:21:56.880 --> 1:21:59.479 They make good stuff and the fact that like, yeah, 1:21:59.479 --> 1:22:02.280 you clear scrambled to make this, that you had a 1:22:02.320 --> 1:22:05.200 thing that can compete with all the other AI things. 1:22:05.760 --> 1:22:07.800 And I wish you were just devoting your LIFs to 1:22:07.880 --> 1:22:12.599 making better solar panels, which is what I want from you. Anyway. 1:22:12.920 --> 1:22:16.040 I'm just curious are the how many is here? Are 1:22:16.040 --> 1:22:17.000 they profitable? 1:22:17.320 --> 1:22:18.360 Like do they? 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:19.840 Yeah? I mean some of them, some. 1:22:19.720 --> 1:22:20.760 Of them, but a lot. 1:22:20.840 --> 1:22:23.320 I mean some of them are funded with VC money 1:22:23.320 --> 1:22:25.080 and have not made a profit. Some of them are 1:22:25.080 --> 1:22:27.439 funded from VC money and have been losing money for years. 1:22:27.439 --> 1:22:29.639 And then there's also like like Lenovo makes it's a company, 1:22:29.640 --> 1:22:31.640 it makes a profit. They make products people buy, you know, 1:22:32.040 --> 1:22:33.639 Jaggery makes products people buy. 1:22:33.840 --> 1:22:35.680 There's also a lot of startups like the Eureka Park 1:22:35.760 --> 1:22:38.240 section that we've been referring to, like the stuff in 1:22:38.280 --> 1:22:41.320 the bottom floor of the Venetian that those there are 1:22:41.439 --> 1:22:43.120 you know a lot of startup companies who are looking 1:22:43.160 --> 1:22:46.080 for investors as well, So yeah, it is definitely a mix. 1:22:46.200 --> 1:22:47.800 Some of them are trying to do like business business sales, 1:22:47.840 --> 1:22:49.400 some of them are more consumer facing, some of them 1:22:49.439 --> 1:22:52.280 are looking for investors, some of them are profitable, and 1:22:52.720 --> 1:22:55.000 other ones are trying to boost their stock price by 1:22:55.000 --> 1:22:59.080 being here, kind of like Kloyd at LG. But I 1:22:59.120 --> 1:23:03.000 think what's really important is that everyone here is an innovator. 1:23:03.200 --> 1:23:05.240 And you know why we know that they're an innovators 1:23:05.280 --> 1:23:08.120 because they've shown up and only innovators show up here 1:23:08.680 --> 1:23:11.000 and they're the real the driving force of the economy. 1:23:11.080 --> 1:23:13.280 And I was feeling bad about myself until I saw 1:23:13.280 --> 1:23:15.240 that band and realize that I am an innovator. 1:23:15.760 --> 1:23:17.280 You know you are an innovator. 1:23:17.600 --> 1:23:20.120 Thank you. I showed up and I figured out how 1:23:20.160 --> 1:23:22.519 to be the guy on the most kratim at the 1:23:22.800 --> 1:23:24.320 at the CEO show floor. 1:23:24.520 --> 1:23:26.240 No, I mean, CS is so is so interesting toe 1:23:26.240 --> 1:23:29.479 be innovated like it? It runs both on this like 1:23:29.720 --> 1:23:34.559 technology idealism where everything is based on people geniuses, you know, 1:23:34.600 --> 1:23:37.519 your Steve Jobs having like ni Stag's job and he 1:23:37.640 --> 1:23:40.640 is the innovator, and everything descends from the idea that 1:23:40.680 --> 1:23:43.400 it's like the thing is like this like like tech platonism, 1:23:43.720 --> 1:23:45.479 So like this is one side of it. You also 1:23:45.479 --> 1:23:48.160 have like the tech accelerationists at CES where it's like 1:23:48.479 --> 1:23:52.479 they occupy this position of being so pro technology no 1:23:52.600 --> 1:23:56.439 matter whatever downsides is the current iteration might have because 1:23:56.479 --> 1:23:59.120 they need someone to hold that position in order for 1:23:59.240 --> 1:24:01.360 this thing to move forward. They know that there's concerns 1:24:01.400 --> 1:24:05.800 around data protection, but their opinion is that it doesn't matter. 1:24:06.280 --> 1:24:09.439 There is problems there, but we we the people here 1:24:09.479 --> 1:24:11.799 I see, Yes, the innovators need to ignore them because 1:24:11.880 --> 1:24:14.160 we have to push forward. And this is like this 1:24:14.200 --> 1:24:16.599 is what like the the Austrian Secretary of State said 1:24:16.920 --> 1:24:18.479 that at that one panel I went to. It's like 1:24:18.680 --> 1:24:21.000 data protection is a problem but in a but like 1:24:21.040 --> 1:24:23.040 it gets in the way of innovation. Yeah, and that's 1:24:23.120 --> 1:24:26.040 that's literally literally what he said. Yeah, and so you 1:24:26.040 --> 1:24:28.800 have you have this like this this like tech optimistic 1:24:29.200 --> 1:24:32.519 like acceleration like viewpoint of like technology will be better, 1:24:32.800 --> 1:24:34.679 but in order for it's to be better and safe, essentially, 1:24:34.760 --> 1:24:36.680 it's it's it's gonna gets kind of shitty and has 1:24:36.680 --> 1:24:38.679 some problems now, but we need to push forward through 1:24:38.720 --> 1:24:40.559 that all the way, Like we can't, we can't, we 1:24:40.600 --> 1:24:44.040 can't go slowly. It has it has to go forward. 1:24:44.080 --> 1:24:47.000 So they adopt this this viewpoint because like they need 1:24:47.040 --> 1:24:50.240 someone to hold this like tech optimism viewpoint in order 1:24:50.240 --> 1:24:51.879 for the process to like unfold. 1:24:52.360 --> 1:24:55.400 Yeah, there's something strangely clear eyed about that in the 1:24:55.400 --> 1:24:57.680 way that it's like, yeah, if I mean, if you're 1:24:57.720 --> 1:25:02.240 limiting your view to the system of capitalism, yeah, the 1:25:02.280 --> 1:25:04.679 whole thing goes into crisis if you are not squeezing 1:25:04.720 --> 1:25:07.800 a little more juice out of the orange, and if 1:25:07.840 --> 1:25:09.880 this is what it takes to do that, then then 1:25:09.960 --> 1:25:11.840 full steam ahead. They're lucid about that. 1:25:11.960 --> 1:25:12.280 Yeah. 1:25:12.360 --> 1:25:15.080 Yeah, you know what else is lucid us saying it's 1:25:15.120 --> 1:25:16.800 time to end this fucking podcast. 1:25:17.320 --> 1:25:22.080 Goodbye, another CES miracle we have kind of survived. 1:25:35.320 --> 1:25:37.960 Hey, everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's me James 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:41.639 today and I'm very lucky to be joined again by Goudain, 1:25:41.720 --> 1:25:45.360 who's a journalist from East Kadistan working with HENGO, the 1:25:45.400 --> 1:25:48.639 human rights organization and lots of other organizations, and we're 1:25:48.640 --> 1:25:52.040 going to talk today about what has been happening in 1:25:52.120 --> 1:25:55.520 Iran for the past few weeks. So thanks for joining Uscordaine. 1:25:56.000 --> 1:25:58.600 Hello, thank you very much for inviting me again to 1:25:58.680 --> 1:26:02.320 the to this and yeah, I'm really glad to be 1:26:02.360 --> 1:26:06.360 here and I am ready to talk about all the 1:26:06.400 --> 1:26:09.120 things that have happening in the past few weeks in 1:26:09.600 --> 1:26:10.679 Kurdistan and Iran. 1:26:11.000 --> 1:26:14.240 Yeah. I think for a lot of people, what is 1:26:14.280 --> 1:26:17.200 happening in Iran in the last few weeks has not 1:26:17.560 --> 1:26:21.240 made punched into the mainstream US media for the most part, Right, 1:26:21.960 --> 1:26:23.960 So I think we should probably begin with a very 1:26:24.000 --> 1:26:29.040 basic overview of what has been happening and a little 1:26:29.080 --> 1:26:31.240 bit of why it has been happening and also where, 1:26:31.400 --> 1:26:34.040 because I think that's worth mentioning, right. 1:26:34.400 --> 1:26:37.839 Yeah, sure, So, just a few days before the Near's 1:26:37.920 --> 1:26:42.880 Eve on December twenty eighth, there was a spontaneous demonstration 1:26:43.040 --> 1:26:48.000 and strike in Tehran's Grand Bazaar, which is basically the 1:26:48.040 --> 1:26:52.679 center of Iran's trade and one of the most important 1:26:52.720 --> 1:26:54.920 backbones of the Islamic. 1:26:54.520 --> 1:26:55.799 Regime or revolution. 1:26:56.360 --> 1:26:59.960 There were strikes inside the Bazzar and so many shop 1:27:00.040 --> 1:27:03.360 person business owners just closed down their businesses and they 1:27:03.520 --> 1:27:06.559 took to the streets and inside the shopping centers and 1:27:06.600 --> 1:27:11.360 they started chanting against the regime and they were basically 1:27:11.400 --> 1:27:16.360 protesting the horrible economic situations and the decrease of the 1:27:16.479 --> 1:27:20.880 Iranian reol or the Iranian currency against the US dollar, 1:27:20.920 --> 1:27:25.040 which was one dollar was equal to one million point 1:27:25.320 --> 1:27:30.679 four hundred thousand Iranian reols. And then these protests quickly 1:27:30.720 --> 1:27:34.679 spread it all over the city in Tehran, and as 1:27:34.800 --> 1:27:38.240 usual this is what happens all the time, the Iranian 1:27:38.520 --> 1:27:43.240 regime forces they started attacking people and trying to control 1:27:43.280 --> 1:27:46.240 the situation, but it somehow got out of their. 1:27:46.040 --> 1:27:51.479 Control and the next days these protests, these strikes spread 1:27:51.520 --> 1:27:56.840 it to other cities, to other major cities from Shira's Mashad, Isfahan, 1:27:57.560 --> 1:27:59.800 Tabriz and many other cities. 1:27:59.600 --> 1:28:01.599 Got in involved. But in the. 1:28:01.560 --> 1:28:07.000 Early January, around January five to six and seven, there 1:28:07.040 --> 1:28:12.799 were major protests in cities like Malikshahi in Ilan Province 1:28:12.880 --> 1:28:16.400 and other cities in Kermanshah Province, which are basically the 1:28:16.479 --> 1:28:21.080 Kurdish provinces in western Iran. What is really unique about 1:28:21.120 --> 1:28:25.559 this is that usually when when protests happened across Iran, 1:28:25.640 --> 1:28:28.360 or when there is something happening, the Kurdish regions are 1:28:28.400 --> 1:28:32.680 the first to react, But this time the Kurdish regions, 1:28:33.479 --> 1:28:36.439 like if I want to say, the West Azerbaijan Province 1:28:36.760 --> 1:28:39.519 and the San and Dutch Province, they were not really 1:28:39.600 --> 1:28:42.920 involved because a lot of people were saying that in 1:28:42.960 --> 1:28:46.439 the previous movements, especially in twenty twenty two, we gave 1:28:46.880 --> 1:28:49.479 too much. There were too many victims here. But the 1:28:49.520 --> 1:28:53.080 center was silent. I mean Tehran and Shiras and these 1:28:53.120 --> 1:28:56.280 major Iranian cities, So a lot of people didn't really 1:28:56.640 --> 1:28:59.040 come out and there was nothing happening. And at the 1:28:59.080 --> 1:29:02.559 same time, this is my personal opinion, I think because 1:29:02.560 --> 1:29:05.599 there was also a heavy snowfall in Kurdish regions and 1:29:05.640 --> 1:29:08.760 it was really cold, and I think a lot of people. 1:29:08.560 --> 1:29:10.120 Just didn't want to go out. 1:29:10.840 --> 1:29:15.559 Yeah, So this was happening in Malikshahi and other cities 1:29:15.600 --> 1:29:19.479 in Elam and Kermanshah Province until I think it was 1:29:19.880 --> 1:29:24.120 January fifth that there was a really really big demonstration 1:29:24.200 --> 1:29:27.360 in Malikshahi. And it's a small city, but I can 1:29:27.439 --> 1:29:29.879 say majority of the people were out on the streets 1:29:29.920 --> 1:29:33.519 and then the Iranian region forces started shooting at people 1:29:33.600 --> 1:29:36.280 and they injured and killed a lot of people. And 1:29:36.320 --> 1:29:38.519 the hospital in that city that in that small city 1:29:38.680 --> 1:29:42.240 was full and they had no space anymore. So the 1:29:42.280 --> 1:29:46.200 people took the injured protesters to the center or the 1:29:46.240 --> 1:29:49.400 capital of the province in Ilam City, to the Imam 1:29:49.520 --> 1:29:54.120 Romani Hospital. What happened in this hospital was that there 1:29:54.120 --> 1:29:56.479 were so many people in front of the hospital, like 1:29:56.560 --> 1:30:00.800 families and relatives of the victims, and then after a 1:30:00.840 --> 1:30:05.040 few hours, the Iranian regime forces started attacking the hospital. 1:30:05.240 --> 1:30:07.639 There were so many videos and footage that came out, 1:30:07.760 --> 1:30:11.200 and we also posted it on hangout and all over 1:30:11.240 --> 1:30:14.680 the internet that the regime forces were basically surrounding the 1:30:14.720 --> 1:30:18.280 whole building and then they started shooting tear gases inside 1:30:18.720 --> 1:30:21.120 the hospital. And then there was a video that came 1:30:21.160 --> 1:30:25.599 out that these regime forces were trying to get inside 1:30:25.600 --> 1:30:29.240 the hospital and arrest or kidnap all the injured people 1:30:29.320 --> 1:30:31.840 or if there was a dead body or something, and 1:30:31.880 --> 1:30:35.519 then there was some sort of resistance from the medical staff, 1:30:35.880 --> 1:30:41.200 and then they started beating the medical staff. And then 1:30:41.680 --> 1:30:45.559 a few days later we also posted about it that 1:30:45.720 --> 1:30:49.120 some of these medical stuff in that hospital were also arrested. 1:30:50.080 --> 1:30:53.040 The same thing was also happening in a few other cities, 1:30:53.040 --> 1:30:56.000 but this was very specific and it got very viral 1:30:56.479 --> 1:30:59.080 on social media and a lot of people talked about it. 1:31:00.000 --> 1:31:03.639 But at the same time, there were massive protests taking 1:31:03.720 --> 1:31:08.880 place in Tehran and other major cities, which like I 1:31:08.920 --> 1:31:11.280 am twenty eight years old and I think I've never 1:31:11.320 --> 1:31:13.599 seen such thing happening in Iran. 1:31:13.720 --> 1:31:19.600 It was really extraordinary. So while these things were happening. 1:31:19.439 --> 1:31:22.000 There were also a lot of calls from people in 1:31:22.080 --> 1:31:26.599 Kurdistan that they were calling on Kurdish parties to do something, 1:31:26.680 --> 1:31:31.040 to say something. So on January sixth seven, Kurdish parties 1:31:31.040 --> 1:31:35.080 from Iran they had a meeting and they announced a 1:31:35.160 --> 1:31:40.080 call for a general strike in Kurdistan for all over Iran. 1:31:40.439 --> 1:31:45.880 So on Thursday, January eighth, over forty cities across Kurdistan 1:31:45.960 --> 1:31:48.760 they went on a strike which was really big, and 1:31:49.120 --> 1:31:52.960 it wasn't really discussed or talked about on major media, 1:31:53.000 --> 1:31:56.840 and it was somehow ignored while it was a really 1:31:56.880 --> 1:32:01.560 big action that took place there and usual after the 1:32:01.600 --> 1:32:05.360 strikes in Curtison, this is something that's happening for years. 1:32:05.760 --> 1:32:09.280 People take to the streets and protests during the night. 1:32:09.320 --> 1:32:12.880 It happened in a few cities and there were some 1:32:12.960 --> 1:32:18.400 people injured and also killed and then it's been over 1:32:18.960 --> 1:32:21.400 one hundred and twenty four hours right now as we're 1:32:21.439 --> 1:32:24.559 talking now that there is no internet connection in Iran 1:32:25.320 --> 1:32:29.599 and even the normal lines don't work. You cannot call 1:32:29.680 --> 1:32:33.759 anyone from outside of Iran. However, there are some people 1:32:33.840 --> 1:32:37.559 who have access to the Starlink Internet and some a 1:32:37.600 --> 1:32:40.920 few people that have access to I don't know, some 1:32:41.080 --> 1:32:45.840 sort of strong VPNs that work for a few minutes 1:32:45.880 --> 1:32:48.519 and then they disconnect. And at the same time, I 1:32:48.680 --> 1:32:52.519 have contact to two people who have been using the 1:32:53.280 --> 1:32:57.519 SIM cards or the Internet from Iraq or Turkey. They 1:32:57.560 --> 1:33:00.559 are living on the border regions, but they also have 1:33:00.640 --> 1:33:04.200 a limited access. So this is what's happening right now. 1:33:04.240 --> 1:33:08.200 And as we were talking about this, this blackout in 1:33:08.200 --> 1:33:12.400 Iran has caused a lot of confusion, a lot of 1:33:12.920 --> 1:33:18.400 horror that the world doesn't know what's happening exactly right now. 1:33:19.240 --> 1:33:22.760 After the blackout, there were a few videos and footage 1:33:22.800 --> 1:33:27.360 that came out that were published by major activists or 1:33:27.439 --> 1:33:31.000 journalists like ali Joan Mardy and so many others that 1:33:31.160 --> 1:33:33.719 they received these videos I don't know, from the Internet 1:33:33.760 --> 1:33:37.040 from Starlink, and you can see in these videos that 1:33:37.240 --> 1:33:41.559 in a place called Carrizac. It's near Tehran. It's where 1:33:41.600 --> 1:33:47.080 the Tehran's Forcenic Medical Center is located. You can see 1:33:47.080 --> 1:33:51.320 in these videos that countless of bodies, maybe hundreds or 1:33:51.360 --> 1:33:55.080 maybe thousands of bodies are just on the ground. They're 1:33:55.080 --> 1:34:00.439 in bodybags and desperate family members, relatives, all troum ties, 1:34:00.479 --> 1:34:04.479 they are looking for their loved ones, and it's just 1:34:04.640 --> 1:34:06.360 like it's so unbelievable. 1:34:06.360 --> 1:34:07.360 It's like movies. 1:34:07.439 --> 1:34:12.960 And apparently the regime forces have machine gunned all these people. Jesus, 1:34:13.120 --> 1:34:17.960 and right now, because of the blackout, we really don't 1:34:18.000 --> 1:34:21.639 know how many people are exactly killed, how many people 1:34:21.720 --> 1:34:26.479 are injured, how many people are arrested, or these things. 1:34:26.479 --> 1:34:28.360 You know, we don't know the exact numbers, and it 1:34:28.800 --> 1:34:32.320 makes things so hard. But today, a few hours ago, 1:34:32.400 --> 1:34:36.479 there was a report from Iran International that stated that 1:34:37.000 --> 1:34:41.240 over twelve thousand people have been killed, but this also 1:34:41.320 --> 1:34:44.880 is not fully confirmed because they just got these things 1:34:45.000 --> 1:34:48.960 through some sources. And then at the same time, CBS 1:34:49.000 --> 1:34:54.200 News also published a report and said that between twelve 1:34:54.200 --> 1:34:57.599 thousand to twenty thousand people have been killed, but again 1:34:57.680 --> 1:35:00.920 this is not really fully confirmed or terrified because there 1:35:01.000 --> 1:35:05.599 is no information coming out that much. At the same time, 1:35:06.120 --> 1:35:10.160 we also got reports from Kurdistan that in the city 1:35:10.160 --> 1:35:15.240 of Kermanshah, these regime forces were taking the dead bodies 1:35:15.600 --> 1:35:19.000 with bosses. We don't know how many, but we know 1:35:19.080 --> 1:35:22.559 that they were taking these bodies with bosses like we 1:35:22.600 --> 1:35:26.000 don't know how many hundreds. And from this footage that 1:35:26.080 --> 1:35:31.080 you can also see that the regime is taking all 1:35:31.200 --> 1:35:36.479 these bodies with containers like with talks all over the 1:35:36.520 --> 1:35:39.400 city in Tehran and they're bringing it to the center 1:35:39.439 --> 1:35:43.280 that I mentioned before, and all families are looking for 1:35:43.320 --> 1:35:46.800 their children and their people. At the same time, I 1:35:46.840 --> 1:35:51.439 also got this direct information from someone who is from 1:35:51.520 --> 1:35:54.920 rash In north of Iran. She was traveling from Tehran 1:35:55.040 --> 1:35:58.360 to Rush and she said that the people have burnt 1:35:58.680 --> 1:36:02.280 down most of them and also the banks and other 1:36:02.360 --> 1:36:06.200 government buildings. Are also footage all over the internet that 1:36:06.720 --> 1:36:09.880 in most of the cities that people have burnt down 1:36:09.960 --> 1:36:14.000 the whole mosques and buildings. 1:36:13.280 --> 1:36:14.360 Belonging to the government. 1:36:15.040 --> 1:36:18.120 And at the same time she also said that in 1:36:18.160 --> 1:36:20.719 that city there are so many people that are killed. 1:36:20.800 --> 1:36:25.120 She doesn't know how many or who, but families were 1:36:25.160 --> 1:36:28.400 desperately looking for their loved ones on the streets or anywhere. 1:36:29.000 --> 1:36:32.719 This is basically the same in almost every major city 1:36:32.840 --> 1:36:36.240 or even small city. We don't know exactly, but this 1:36:36.320 --> 1:36:39.519 is the footage that we got from Tehronily that it 1:36:39.600 --> 1:36:40.680 shows what's going on. 1:36:41.040 --> 1:36:42.400 Yeah, that's horrific. 1:36:42.840 --> 1:36:44.080 Yeah, there are. 1:36:43.960 --> 1:36:48.519 Many many also in our organization, we got a few 1:36:48.640 --> 1:36:53.280 confirmations from these limited access that some of these people 1:36:53.520 --> 1:36:56.840 killed in Tehran are also Kourdish, and obviously from other 1:36:57.720 --> 1:37:00.559 minoritory groups as well. At the same time, there is 1:37:00.600 --> 1:37:03.880 a special case that I want to talk about. There 1:37:03.920 --> 1:37:08.160 is a person like a protester. His name is Erfon Sultani. 1:37:08.640 --> 1:37:11.439 He was arrested a few days ago and he is 1:37:11.760 --> 1:37:16.120 planned to be executed tomorrow. We don't know if they're 1:37:16.160 --> 1:37:19.240 really going to do that or whatever, but this is 1:37:19.280 --> 1:37:22.280 a really big sign that a lot of people are 1:37:22.320 --> 1:37:26.120 warning about it, like human rights organizations, and that the 1:37:26.160 --> 1:37:31.720 regime might carry out mass executions everywhere and just to 1:37:31.760 --> 1:37:35.519 take control over the situation. This is also something that 1:37:35.840 --> 1:37:36.639 might happen. 1:37:37.160 --> 1:37:40.719 Yeah, so it did execute people after the mini protest, 1:37:40.840 --> 1:37:43.800 but they didn't do a three day trial right that 1:37:43.840 --> 1:37:46.040 they did here, They had like a show trial first 1:37:46.200 --> 1:37:47.519 that in those interesting series. 1:37:48.240 --> 1:37:52.799 Yeah, they executed dozens of people after gin Imani was killed, 1:37:53.040 --> 1:37:55.080 and also previously in the previous years. 1:37:55.360 --> 1:37:58.360 So this is like what what's in general is happening. 1:37:58.800 --> 1:38:03.280 And at the same time, like in diaspora in Western countries, 1:38:03.320 --> 1:38:06.679 there are groups that are on the streets, like people 1:38:06.760 --> 1:38:09.760 that are calling for solidarity or whatever that can be 1:38:09.880 --> 1:38:13.840 done to help people out inside Iran. Yeah, this is 1:38:13.920 --> 1:38:19.080 like a general overview of what's happening. And as I 1:38:19.120 --> 1:38:22.840 said before, because there is no internet connection and if 1:38:22.840 --> 1:38:26.719 there is, it's very limited, nobody knows what's happening exactly. 1:38:26.880 --> 1:38:32.320 Nobody knows the exact scale of the crimes that are 1:38:32.720 --> 1:38:34.240 taking place right now there. 1:38:34.520 --> 1:38:36.840 Yeah, let's take a little break for advertisements here and 1:38:36.840 --> 1:38:49.519 then we'll come back and talk a little more. Okay, 1:38:49.720 --> 1:38:53.439 and we're back. So if people have seen anything about this, 1:38:53.520 --> 1:38:56.200 I don't know, if they're on like a X they 1:38:56.240 --> 1:39:01.000 would have seen videos of mosk burning and maybe videos 1:39:01.040 --> 1:39:04.960 of the pak like shooting at buildings. You know, these 1:39:05.000 --> 1:39:07.559 are the videos that were kind of widely circulated before 1:39:07.600 --> 1:39:11.439 people lost access to the Internet. And I think there's 1:39:11.520 --> 1:39:17.240 some idea that like this isn't armed uprising, and I 1:39:17.280 --> 1:39:20.640 think it would be good to explain to people that 1:39:20.800 --> 1:39:23.360 like that there are people clearly the press. There is 1:39:23.439 --> 1:39:27.200 presence of like armed groups who apposed a regime in Iran, right, 1:39:27.320 --> 1:39:30.000 but they are not necessarily the ones like leading the 1:39:30.120 --> 1:39:33.599 charge here. So maybe we could explain a little bit 1:39:34.080 --> 1:39:38.720 about both the armed groups who are Kurdish. There are 1:39:38.720 --> 1:39:42.000 some armed groups in Balochistan as well, and like where 1:39:42.040 --> 1:39:44.160 they sit in relevance to these protests. 1:39:44.439 --> 1:39:48.200 Yeah, so far I can speak for Kurtisan, Yeah, there 1:39:48.200 --> 1:39:53.160 have I've seen also the footage that pak or the 1:39:53.160 --> 1:39:58.520 Freedom Party of Kurtisan published social media. I cannot personally 1:39:59.120 --> 1:40:02.840 confirm that, but but there has always been a call 1:40:03.160 --> 1:40:07.160 for military action against the regime in the previous years, 1:40:07.200 --> 1:40:10.880 and even before Regina Amini in twenty twenty two, there 1:40:10.920 --> 1:40:13.200 was always some sort of call from the people. But 1:40:13.800 --> 1:40:16.840 right now, as we are seeing, the Kurdish Party is 1:40:16.840 --> 1:40:20.360 the seven major Kurdish parties from Iran, they are not 1:40:20.800 --> 1:40:27.840 taking really a real military action because there is a 1:40:27.880 --> 1:40:31.719 big fear that if they do this, the regime might 1:40:32.320 --> 1:40:37.679 bomb the cities and kill thousands of civilians with heavy 1:40:38.240 --> 1:40:41.680 weapons and even missiles. So this is also one of 1:40:41.720 --> 1:40:44.840 the main reasons that even the parties have talked about 1:40:44.880 --> 1:40:49.240 it many times before when people called for a military sport. 1:40:49.280 --> 1:40:52.400 But of course I can also confirm this that all 1:40:52.520 --> 1:40:56.639 of these parties, all of these organizations have some sort 1:40:56.640 --> 1:41:01.480 of networks inside Iran that they are they are monitoring 1:41:01.520 --> 1:41:05.040 the situation, they are collecting information and they are like 1:41:05.080 --> 1:41:08.880 connecting people together. And in some cases that I am 1:41:08.920 --> 1:41:11.559 aware of that happened in my hometown in Urmia in 1:41:11.560 --> 1:41:15.920 twenty twenty two, some of these parties also have been 1:41:15.960 --> 1:41:21.080 able to lead the protests, like to organized protests. So 1:41:21.200 --> 1:41:25.439 this is for now the presence of these parties. But 1:41:25.720 --> 1:41:28.680 for Baluchistan, I can also say that I think it 1:41:28.760 --> 1:41:33.000 was in October or November twenty twenty five that all 1:41:33.080 --> 1:41:36.040 these groups in Baluchistan they had a conference and they 1:41:36.200 --> 1:41:38.679 announced that they are all united and they're all working 1:41:38.720 --> 1:41:42.000 together under one banner. So they also carried out a 1:41:42.040 --> 1:41:47.160 lot of attacks on the IRGC bases and vehicles in 1:41:47.160 --> 1:41:50.120 their regions in the past few months. But so far 1:41:50.479 --> 1:41:54.120 we haven't heard much from them in the past few weeks. 1:41:54.960 --> 1:41:58.040 We don't know they're not doing anything, or if they 1:41:58.080 --> 1:42:00.040 are doing anything, it's not on the inter. 1:42:00.640 --> 1:42:04.000 Yeah, or it's published yet. Yeah. 1:42:04.040 --> 1:42:07.719 This is the situation right now with the with these groups. 1:42:07.760 --> 1:42:12.200 But at the same time groups or parties actually like Pijac, 1:42:12.920 --> 1:42:17.080 they also have warned that this was like, if I 1:42:17.120 --> 1:42:20.360 want to say, quote on quote, don't play with fire. 1:42:20.120 --> 1:42:25.160 They were this Ermian regime that they shouldn't play with fire. Yeah, 1:42:25.160 --> 1:42:27.600 this is a situation right now that's going on with 1:42:27.640 --> 1:42:28.719 the parties as well. 1:42:29.160 --> 1:42:32.120 Yeah, and it's very complicated for people who are not 1:42:32.200 --> 1:42:34.880 right familiar. I think like maybe we should take a 1:42:34.920 --> 1:42:38.960 step back even further and just explain I guess the 1:42:39.040 --> 1:42:42.640 concept of it ran as like a contiguous empire might 1:42:42.680 --> 1:42:45.200 be a good way to see it, right, with different 1:42:45.280 --> 1:42:49.680 ethnic groups currently under the control of one state, Can 1:42:49.720 --> 1:42:51.479 you just explain that for people if they if they're 1:42:51.520 --> 1:42:54.640 not familiar it, because I think in the US, like 1:42:54.760 --> 1:42:57.560 Persian identity and Iranian identity by people who are not 1:42:57.640 --> 1:43:00.639 familiar with it are conflated, right, But if you could 1:43:00.640 --> 1:43:03.280 explain the different nations that exist within the state, that 1:43:03.680 --> 1:43:04.400 might help people. 1:43:04.880 --> 1:43:09.879 Yeah, Like Iran as a geography is a very diverse country. 1:43:10.640 --> 1:43:14.760 So basically the Persians or as they call themselves Iranians, 1:43:14.840 --> 1:43:18.600 are the dominant group. They are the majority, but we 1:43:18.760 --> 1:43:23.640 also have the Osari Turkish people who are the second majority, 1:43:23.680 --> 1:43:27.040 and then we have the Kurds, we have the Baluchis. 1:43:27.360 --> 1:43:31.720 Then there are Ahwazi Arabs in the south, and then 1:43:31.760 --> 1:43:36.240 there are Turkmen people, and then there are Thailishis, but 1:43:36.360 --> 1:43:38.920 their numbers are really small. And at the same time 1:43:39.360 --> 1:43:43.120 there is also the mas and Dharrani or the Gilak 1:43:43.240 --> 1:43:48.280 people that live in the Caspian Sea coast. There are 1:43:48.320 --> 1:43:52.280 also a different ethnic group. They have a different linguistic background, 1:43:52.360 --> 1:43:56.719 but because of the Iranian state policies of one hundred years, 1:43:57.040 --> 1:44:01.040 majority of them are assimilated and no longer carry that 1:44:01.720 --> 1:44:07.080 cultural heritage or identity. But in Kurdistan, in Baluchistan, in Ahwas, 1:44:07.120 --> 1:44:10.320 in Azerbaijan, it's it's really different, and also in the 1:44:10.360 --> 1:44:13.920 Turkument regions. Basically this is this is what Iran looks like. 1:44:14.000 --> 1:44:17.639 Of course, there are other small minorities like Armenians, even 1:44:17.720 --> 1:44:22.920 Georgians that migrated to like hundreds of years ago. There 1:44:22.920 --> 1:44:27.920 are also several religious groups like the Shia Muslims are 1:44:27.960 --> 1:44:33.160 the majority, which Persians and Azari Turks are basically the 1:44:33.200 --> 1:44:38.080 followers of this religion, and then there are Sunni Sunni 1:44:38.120 --> 1:44:41.720 Muslims who are like majority of them are Baluchis and 1:44:41.840 --> 1:44:45.519 Kurds and Awazi Arabs or other groups. And then we 1:44:45.640 --> 1:44:50.600 have several other groups from Jews, Christians and also the Yarsanis, 1:44:50.600 --> 1:44:54.759 which is a Kurdish religious minority, and they are about 1:44:55.000 --> 1:44:58.720 one million to two million people. Yeah, this is what 1:44:58.760 --> 1:44:59.640 Iran looks like. 1:45:00.400 --> 1:45:02.360 Yes, yeah, and I think people can can be easy 1:45:02.400 --> 1:45:04.280 for them to just see it as like Shia Muslim 1:45:04.280 --> 1:45:06.960 Persian modelith right, Yeah. 1:45:06.760 --> 1:45:08.639 But I also want to add a little bit more 1:45:08.680 --> 1:45:14.040 of how this works. So because the Iranians or the 1:45:14.080 --> 1:45:17.920 Persians are the majority, they own the state. The entire 1:45:18.080 --> 1:45:22.960 identity is evolving around them. And because of this, during 1:45:22.960 --> 1:45:26.080 the past one hundred and fifty one hundred years, there 1:45:26.120 --> 1:45:30.760 has been a policy of assimilation in every region in 1:45:31.080 --> 1:45:34.160 what's called Iran right now, for example, if I want 1:45:34.200 --> 1:45:37.439 to talk about the language right now, the only official 1:45:37.520 --> 1:45:41.240 language is Persian, and in the past one hundred years, 1:45:41.560 --> 1:45:45.640 this language has not just been a language of communication, 1:45:45.760 --> 1:45:49.240 it has been a language of oppression and assimilation. And 1:45:49.720 --> 1:45:53.120 there are many regions in Iran that were For example, 1:45:53.280 --> 1:45:55.800 if I want to talk about Kurtison, there are many 1:45:55.840 --> 1:45:59.800 regions in Kermanshah and Elam provinces and other regions that 1:46:00.240 --> 1:46:03.240 used to be fully Kurdish and they used to speak 1:46:03.320 --> 1:46:06.000 Kurdish just a few decades ago, but now they are 1:46:06.040 --> 1:46:11.280 completely assimilated. The same policy was also followed strictly but 1:46:11.439 --> 1:46:14.880 heavily in in Turkey and also in Iraq and also 1:46:14.920 --> 1:46:15.519 in Syria. 1:46:15.640 --> 1:46:15.960 Yeah. 1:46:16.000 --> 1:46:19.240 So this is how this has been working in the 1:46:19.280 --> 1:46:24.120 past century, and how all these ethnic groups with different 1:46:24.240 --> 1:46:29.200 languages and cultural backgrounds and identities have been forced to 1:46:29.400 --> 1:46:35.599 accept an Iranian identity that evolves that turns around the 1:46:35.720 --> 1:46:39.040 Persian identity and Persian language and history. 1:46:39.520 --> 1:46:39.800 Yeah. 1:46:39.840 --> 1:46:43.439 So this is also like a general overview of the 1:46:44.040 --> 1:46:45.559 oppression if I want to. 1:46:46.240 --> 1:46:48.040 Yeah, I think it's pretty the right way. I think 1:46:48.080 --> 1:46:50.280 people who have listened to our coverage of ME and 1:46:50.400 --> 1:46:53.360 MA will be familiar or like, I mean, this is 1:46:53.400 --> 1:46:56.320 happening in countersplaces, right, This is this is why British 1:46:56.360 --> 1:46:58.880 people will speak English now, yeah, right, this is this 1:46:58.960 --> 1:47:02.680 is how sort of channel empire works. I wonder like 1:47:02.920 --> 1:47:05.960 we should talk about the possibilities and to an extent, 1:47:06.240 --> 1:47:10.679 the demands here, right, Because in the US it seems 1:47:10.720 --> 1:47:14.120 to be that there is a binary choice or that 1:47:14.120 --> 1:47:18.439 it's presented as a binary choice between the current state 1:47:18.479 --> 1:47:20.880 in Iran and a monarchy, and it doesn't seem to 1:47:20.920 --> 1:47:23.759 be an option for self governance, right for Iranian people 1:47:23.840 --> 1:47:26.840 to have democracy, to have liberty, and that's evidently not 1:47:26.880 --> 1:47:28.840 the case, right, Like when you have this many people 1:47:28.880 --> 1:47:33.200 in the streets, that's how democracy works. But let's talk 1:47:33.240 --> 1:47:36.760 about the sort of the demands and then the possibilities 1:47:36.760 --> 1:47:40.400 of just being co opted and turned into another type 1:47:40.400 --> 1:47:40.800 of state. 1:47:41.720 --> 1:47:47.560 So here in these days or basically in the past decades, 1:47:48.000 --> 1:47:53.480 the main demand of people, all different ethnic groups and 1:47:53.640 --> 1:47:57.719 in the geography of Iran has always been a regime change. 1:47:58.040 --> 1:48:01.439 They want just regime gone. Yeah, this is the first 1:48:01.439 --> 1:48:04.840 thing that everybody wants. At the same time, there are 1:48:05.240 --> 1:48:08.719 other possibilities that could be there. One of the things 1:48:08.760 --> 1:48:12.920 that when you look at these ethnic groups and their 1:48:13.040 --> 1:48:16.880 organizations and the people, you can see that also most 1:48:16.920 --> 1:48:23.120 of them want some sort of federalism or autonomy or 1:48:23.280 --> 1:48:27.960 self governance. At the same time, this idea of federalism 1:48:28.160 --> 1:48:34.080 and self governance or self determination is nothing that let's 1:48:34.080 --> 1:48:38.200 say that the dominant group would accept because they don't 1:48:38.280 --> 1:48:42.639 understand it. Because for them, I wouldn't say all of them, 1:48:42.680 --> 1:48:45.720 because I can we cannot generalize everyone. But when you 1:48:45.720 --> 1:48:50.920 look at it, the dominant group sees Iran as an entity. 1:48:51.080 --> 1:48:56.320 That's that's not the verse. It's just Iran and everybody's Iranian, 1:48:56.600 --> 1:49:00.360 just like the way Turkey, you know, or the Turmh 1:49:00.439 --> 1:49:04.280 government sees everything everybody's Turkish. But in Iran they also 1:49:04.280 --> 1:49:08.400 say everybody's Iranian. We will have an election, we will 1:49:08.479 --> 1:49:11.559 choose a president, we will have a parliament, and that's it. 1:49:12.120 --> 1:49:17.240 That's what is also being let's say offered. But at 1:49:17.240 --> 1:49:21.080 the same time, there is also a call for monarchy. 1:49:21.160 --> 1:49:24.360 But this is also something that not majority of people, 1:49:24.439 --> 1:49:28.679 even Persians, majority of them don't want monarchy back because 1:49:28.720 --> 1:49:32.760 there is a huge discussion between people that here we 1:49:32.840 --> 1:49:36.360 are fighting against a dictatorship, why would we bring back 1:49:36.400 --> 1:49:41.719 another dictatorship. Overall, I can say that the minority groups, 1:49:42.400 --> 1:49:47.000 majority of them, for now, I would say, like if 1:49:47.040 --> 1:49:52.000 the regime is going to be changed, they want self governance. 1:49:52.400 --> 1:49:55.160 But maybe in the future also independence. We don't know 1:49:55.200 --> 1:49:58.040 that this is something complicated to talk about, but for 1:49:58.160 --> 1:50:01.960 now this is what minority groups. But in the Persian community, 1:50:02.520 --> 1:50:06.839 some of them want to have like a republican system 1:50:07.240 --> 1:50:10.160 or whatever. But some of them also want to have 1:50:10.280 --> 1:50:14.040 monarchy back. And there are also other groups who reject 1:50:14.160 --> 1:50:18.200 both Republicans and also like monarchists, and they want to 1:50:18.240 --> 1:50:23.280 have more diverse and more open system for the future. 1:50:23.680 --> 1:50:26.960 But again this is something that we cannot say how 1:50:27.000 --> 1:50:30.280 it's going to be proceeded because we don't know how 1:50:30.280 --> 1:50:33.120 the situation is going to be and how these opposition 1:50:33.280 --> 1:50:36.720 groups are going to work together in the future. Are 1:50:36.760 --> 1:50:39.559 they gonna start a civil war or are they going 1:50:39.640 --> 1:50:42.720 to sit down together and find a solution. This is 1:50:42.840 --> 1:50:46.559 all depends on how the regime falls and when, and 1:50:46.920 --> 1:50:51.880 the destruction of this regime is the biggest priority right now. 1:50:52.160 --> 1:50:54.280 Yeah, yeah, I mean we could see a situation very 1:50:54.360 --> 1:50:57.320 much like the one that's happening and folding right now 1:50:57.360 --> 1:50:59.880 in Western Kurdishtwan, and folding later in Iran if theyre 1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:03.320 falls right, which unfortunate is something else we have to 1:51:03.320 --> 1:51:06.200 talk about at the time, but very terrible things happening 1:51:06.240 --> 1:51:19.360 there too. Because you know, most of our listeners are 1:51:19.360 --> 1:51:22.280 in America. The way that people may have engaged with 1:51:22.320 --> 1:51:26.559 this is through Donald Trump's posting on truth Social where 1:51:27.040 --> 1:51:31.519 he has said that help is coming recently, Like, let's 1:51:32.120 --> 1:51:35.920 talk about what US intervention means, like, especially in the 1:51:36.840 --> 1:51:39.840 context of a like the US having intervened all over 1:51:39.840 --> 1:51:41.880 the Middle East, and what that has meant and be 1:51:43.000 --> 1:51:47.720 Like the US's recent national security strategy, which suggests that 1:51:47.760 --> 1:51:50.439 basically they don't care about the region and they don't 1:51:50.439 --> 1:51:53.519 want to be involved in the region. Let's talk about 1:51:53.520 --> 1:51:55.479 what that means and why it might not be the 1:51:55.479 --> 1:51:56.840 panas here people think it is. 1:51:57.479 --> 1:52:01.120 Yeah, So in the past few weeks, Trump has. 1:52:00.960 --> 1:52:02.040 Said a lot of things. 1:52:02.439 --> 1:52:04.559 In the first few days, he came out and said 1:52:04.680 --> 1:52:08.160 that if the regime is going to kill civilians, we're 1:52:08.160 --> 1:52:09.799 going to do this, and that we're going to punish 1:52:09.800 --> 1:52:10.320 the regime. 1:52:10.840 --> 1:52:11.840 And then I. 1:52:11.760 --> 1:52:14.120 Think it was an interview or he was on TV, 1:52:14.200 --> 1:52:17.760 I don't exactly remember, but he said something that all 1:52:17.800 --> 1:52:20.479 the people that were killed, we don't know if the 1:52:20.560 --> 1:52:23.799 regime killed them. Maybe they just were killed in the crowd, 1:52:23.960 --> 1:52:25.600 like there were like thousands of people in. 1:52:25.600 --> 1:52:28.839 The really yeah, like a crush. They were crushed. And 1:52:29.120 --> 1:52:32.400 this is so unbelievable. He's making these comments and then 1:52:32.479 --> 1:52:37.120 he's just threatening the regime all over again. And just 1:52:37.160 --> 1:52:39.720 a few hours ago, as you mentioned, he said that 1:52:39.960 --> 1:52:43.599 the help is coming, and he's asking people to keep 1:52:43.680 --> 1:52:45.800 fighting and keep protesting and. 1:52:45.720 --> 1:52:46.360 Things like that. 1:52:46.760 --> 1:52:51.160 However, we should also, like regarding this, we should talk 1:52:51.160 --> 1:52:55.519 about what people also want from Trump. Yeah, this has 1:52:55.600 --> 1:52:58.200 been like something that a lot of people, again this 1:52:58.280 --> 1:53:01.200 is not the majority, A lot of people have been 1:53:01.280 --> 1:53:05.240 calling on him or basically on America or something to 1:53:05.320 --> 1:53:08.200 do an action against the regime, to do something against 1:53:08.200 --> 1:53:11.240 the regime or damage the regime so that people can 1:53:11.320 --> 1:53:14.400 get rid of it. And right now, I saw some 1:53:14.479 --> 1:53:19.280 screenshots from people who were able to get access to 1:53:19.320 --> 1:53:22.519 the internet for a few moments. I saw one there 1:53:22.600 --> 1:53:26.839 was shared on the internet that a woman from Tehran 1:53:27.200 --> 1:53:30.360 was saying that they are killing everyone. I don't know 1:53:30.400 --> 1:53:32.680 where my children are. One of them is nineteen and 1:53:32.720 --> 1:53:36.120 the other one is twenty three. She was just saying, please, 1:53:36.280 --> 1:53:38.880 please be our voice and just tell them to attack, 1:53:39.000 --> 1:53:42.040 tell Trump to help. So this is also something that 1:53:42.080 --> 1:53:48.000 there is a call for attacking Iran and destroying the regime. 1:53:48.360 --> 1:53:52.280 But again we don't know if Trump is really gonna 1:53:52.560 --> 1:53:55.439 do this or not. There is also like threats coming 1:53:55.479 --> 1:54:00.879 from Europe as well in UK. But again, as you mentioned, 1:54:01.040 --> 1:54:04.800 if these attacks happen. We don't is it going to 1:54:04.880 --> 1:54:08.400 be something like Iraq or Afghanistan or other places, or 1:54:08.520 --> 1:54:11.519 is it gonna really help the people of Iran, the 1:54:11.560 --> 1:54:14.800 people inside around to get rid of the regime, which 1:54:14.840 --> 1:54:18.320 is also really hard to understand because Trump hasn't been 1:54:18.400 --> 1:54:22.120 really clear about all these things. On one side, he 1:54:22.280 --> 1:54:25.920 was also asked if he has any talks or connections 1:54:25.960 --> 1:54:30.320 with the so called Prince Razapa Levi, and he said, no, 1:54:30.800 --> 1:54:33.400 he's a good guy, but I don't want to talk 1:54:33.480 --> 1:54:36.120 to him. But then now you can see that on 1:54:36.880 --> 1:54:41.200 Fox News, like all the Trump affiliated or pro Trump media, 1:54:41.240 --> 1:54:44.720 they are promoting this guy all the time. And at 1:54:44.720 --> 1:54:48.520 the same time, Rizzo was also on TV and he 1:54:48.600 --> 1:54:52.120 was on CBS and he said that he's directly in 1:54:52.160 --> 1:54:56.280 touch with Trump and administration. So we don't know like 1:54:56.480 --> 1:55:00.440 what exactly, I mean, it's so hard to some what 1:55:00.520 --> 1:55:04.280 exactly the US is going to do. Yeah, they also 1:55:04.320 --> 1:55:08.320 announced that we're going to put more like twenty five 1:55:08.400 --> 1:55:12.080 percent tariff on countries who work with Iran or trade 1:55:12.080 --> 1:55:15.320 with Iran, And then the European Parliament also announced that 1:55:15.320 --> 1:55:18.480 we're going to ban all Iranian diplomats from entering the 1:55:18.480 --> 1:55:19.680 European Parliament. 1:55:20.360 --> 1:55:22.840 Right, not made to begin with, all. 1:55:22.640 --> 1:55:25.640 These comments that are coming out, they are so vague, 1:55:25.640 --> 1:55:28.560 and at the same time there are calls from Germany, 1:55:28.640 --> 1:55:31.480 France and I think Australia too that they were calling 1:55:31.760 --> 1:55:34.800 on the citizens that are in Iran, like tourists or whatever, 1:55:35.080 --> 1:55:39.320 to immediately leave Iran. Yeah, this is also something that 1:55:39.680 --> 1:55:42.680 we don't know, like Trump is not somebody that you 1:55:42.720 --> 1:55:43.520 could trust. 1:55:43.960 --> 1:55:45.600 Yeah, ask people. 1:55:44.880 --> 1:55:48.440 And at the same time, sorry, this is also important. 1:55:48.800 --> 1:55:53.560 There was also some news that the Iranian authorities in 1:55:53.640 --> 1:55:57.720 the Foreign ministry were trying or they contacted some people 1:55:57.760 --> 1:56:03.120 from Trump administration for negotiations, but then Trump said that 1:56:04.040 --> 1:56:06.720 we will not negotiate anything. 1:56:07.520 --> 1:56:09.040 So this is all like all. 1:56:09.000 --> 1:56:12.640 These contradictions that Trump is just talking about, and he's 1:56:12.720 --> 1:56:15.440 denying that the regime is killing people and people are 1:56:15.560 --> 1:56:17.839 just being killed because it's too crowded. 1:56:18.920 --> 1:56:22.800 And then you see Harminly like tweeting that everyone out 1:56:22.800 --> 1:56:24.840 in the street is a Trump supporter, right, which is 1:56:24.920 --> 1:56:28.640 like that's useful to him, that narrative is useful to him, 1:56:28.640 --> 1:56:32.200 that these are American imperialists or American whatever puppets. 1:56:32.440 --> 1:56:37.920 Yeah, of course that has been the regime's behavior forever. Yeah, 1:56:38.000 --> 1:56:43.200 whenever something happens, they immediately blame it on America, Israel. 1:56:43.520 --> 1:56:47.360 I don't know UK, but it's good that you mentioned 1:56:47.560 --> 1:56:50.640 what company was saying. In the first few days, he 1:56:50.800 --> 1:56:54.360 said that, yeah, we hear you the people in bazaar, 1:56:54.520 --> 1:56:58.120 and yeah we hear you, sorry that this is going on, 1:56:58.360 --> 1:57:01.840 and things like that. But then he immediately said that 1:57:02.000 --> 1:57:05.200 the people who are protesting, they are destroying everything and 1:57:05.640 --> 1:57:09.160 we will deal with them in the harshest way. And 1:57:09.200 --> 1:57:15.040 then the president of Iran and he also came out 1:57:15.080 --> 1:57:17.560 and he said almost the same thing, and then he 1:57:17.600 --> 1:57:21.400 started threatening people. And a few days after that, the 1:57:21.560 --> 1:57:24.680 head of the judiciary, the Iranian judiciary came out and 1:57:24.840 --> 1:57:28.560 said that like in a very very aggressive language. He 1:57:28.680 --> 1:57:31.800 said that we will deal with you in the worst 1:57:31.800 --> 1:57:35.600 ways possible, we will destroy you, and things like that. 1:57:35.680 --> 1:57:38.839 It's he posted a lot of texts on his Twitter account. 1:57:39.680 --> 1:57:40.560 His name is Mosci. 1:57:41.880 --> 1:57:46.240 So yeah, there is also like a huge online fightings 1:57:46.280 --> 1:57:51.080 between these politicians and so called leaders that makes the 1:57:51.160 --> 1:57:54.960 situation even more complicated and hard to understand. 1:57:55.320 --> 1:57:58.600 Yeah, I think from a US perspective, like when America 1:57:58.640 --> 1:58:01.880 invaded Rock Right, they had a partner force in Kurdistan. 1:58:02.440 --> 1:58:04.680 When when America worked in Syria, they had a partner 1:58:04.720 --> 1:58:08.720 force again in Western Kurdistan, Like they don't really have 1:58:09.080 --> 1:58:12.280 that here like this, it's not really a I mean, 1:58:12.680 --> 1:58:16.200 the payarch is still on the American Foreign Terrorist Organization List. 1:58:16.920 --> 1:58:20.400 It's not like that, like American sort of partner force 1:58:20.480 --> 1:58:23.360 boots on the ground like that that they had these 1:58:23.440 --> 1:58:25.720 other places to likely what they would do is just 1:58:25.760 --> 1:58:29.120 bomb stuff. That's kind of the approach it most likely 1:58:29.160 --> 1:58:34.560 here in it bombing alone is unlikely to remove the regime. 1:58:35.400 --> 1:58:38.680 Yeah, I think bombing was is definitely not enough of 1:58:39.480 --> 1:58:44.160 because they bombed. They tried regime hardly last year, but 1:58:44.640 --> 1:58:48.480 it is there. Of course there was the regime got weaker, 1:58:48.560 --> 1:58:53.520 like weekend really bad. But at the same time, like 1:58:54.200 --> 1:58:57.360 I think, if there's gonna be something, and if there's 1:58:57.440 --> 1:58:59.880 gonna be something like Syria or Iraq, I think the 1:59:00.120 --> 1:59:03.840 Americans or the American government would possibly work with the 1:59:03.920 --> 1:59:06.640 Kurdish groups even though they are on the so called 1:59:06.720 --> 1:59:11.520 terror list. Like you know, it happened in Rosova in Syria. 1:59:11.640 --> 1:59:15.560 That's how they they've been working with the Kurdish groups 1:59:15.640 --> 1:59:18.560 even though they are related to PKK and pkk is on. 1:59:18.520 --> 1:59:22.600 The terror or they removed them that they did with HTS, right, 1:59:22.640 --> 1:59:25.320 and then suddenly these guys they've transformed. 1:59:25.320 --> 1:59:30.000 Now, yeah, so this could also happen, but we don't 1:59:30.040 --> 1:59:34.240 know because it's been years. It's been decades that the 1:59:34.760 --> 1:59:38.840 US is always threatening Iran and then something happens, then 1:59:39.000 --> 1:59:42.320 they do nothing and it's just there. 1:59:42.600 --> 1:59:45.960 Yeah, it reinforces the legitimacy of both states to threaten 1:59:46.000 --> 1:59:48.520 each other, right, and see each other as adversaries, and 1:59:48.760 --> 1:59:51.000 to a degree use that for domestic violence against their 1:59:51.000 --> 1:59:54.480 own citizens, right or if you know terrorism stuff. I 1:59:54.480 --> 1:59:57.560 guess finally we should just talk about one other thing 1:59:57.600 --> 2:00:00.680 that Hamani said, which is like that American and it's 2:00:00.760 --> 2:00:05.080 really shipping would become legitimate target if you thought the 2:00:05.120 --> 2:00:08.920 Americans were involved, right, just to explain, this is the 2:00:09.000 --> 2:00:11.200 possibility to have people if they're not familiar. 2:00:11.680 --> 2:00:14.640 Well, this is not a new thing, to be honest. 2:00:14.720 --> 2:00:18.680 They've won this before and in the previous years many times. 2:00:18.720 --> 2:00:22.440 And there were times that they attacked some US bases, 2:00:22.520 --> 2:00:26.560 like the one in Iraq it's called Al Assad or 2:00:26.600 --> 2:00:31.040 something like that. They attacked it a few times I 2:00:31.080 --> 2:00:33.160 guess in the past few years. 2:00:33.320 --> 2:00:34.520 Yeah, like This. 2:00:34.600 --> 2:00:41.160 Is also really complicated because how can I explain the 2:00:41.200 --> 2:00:46.200 regime always does the threats and it might not do 2:00:46.320 --> 2:00:49.960 it at all. But at the same time, this is 2:00:50.000 --> 2:00:53.680 also something that I think that if the regime falls 2:00:54.200 --> 2:00:58.480 and if it's the last moments, they would probably try 2:00:58.520 --> 2:01:02.400 to do something to damage the region or to damage 2:01:02.400 --> 2:01:05.440 the people as much as they can, and then they 2:01:05.440 --> 2:01:08.440 would just give up on everything and just disappear. 2:01:09.240 --> 2:01:10.800 So they could do that. 2:01:11.400 --> 2:01:14.840 But if I want to go back to last year, 2:01:15.440 --> 2:01:19.520 we also need to understand that after the Twelve Day War, 2:01:20.240 --> 2:01:27.160 Israel also destroyed a massive amount of Iranian military bases 2:01:27.400 --> 2:01:32.160 and all these buildings and structures, but still nobody truly 2:01:32.240 --> 2:01:36.160 understand how much has been destroyed. But the Iranian Air 2:01:36.200 --> 2:01:40.640 force is really really weak right now and apparently completely destroyed, 2:01:41.080 --> 2:01:45.840 so Iran is not as strong as before. So there 2:01:45.880 --> 2:01:49.080 could be a possibility that Iran actually doesn't have the 2:01:49.120 --> 2:01:54.280 capability to attack US Bass across the region anymore. So 2:01:54.880 --> 2:01:58.040 this could be also a possibility that they're just threatening. 2:01:58.080 --> 2:02:01.760 They really don't have anything left anymore more. Their trick 2:02:01.800 --> 2:02:04.360 capabilities are completely down. 2:02:04.440 --> 2:02:07.200 Yeah, or they'll do that sort of symbolic send a 2:02:07.240 --> 2:02:10.280 half dozen Shaheed drones and then let the Americans shoot 2:02:10.280 --> 2:02:12.360 them down and they say, oh, well we tried, or 2:02:12.400 --> 2:02:15.920 you know, we h we attack them, even though you 2:02:15.960 --> 2:02:18.080 know most of the time they have hurt a couple 2:02:18.120 --> 2:02:22.760 of American people with them, but relatively unsuccessful. I wonder 2:02:22.920 --> 2:02:26.080 like this is obviously a situation that people will want 2:02:26.080 --> 2:02:30.040 to follow. Things are developing very quickly and new good news, 2:02:30.080 --> 2:02:31.880 good reporting on around. It is very hard to find 2:02:31.880 --> 2:02:35.520 in America. So where would you suggest people look? Either 2:02:35.760 --> 2:02:38.760 you know your own stuff or other sources you suggest 2:02:38.840 --> 2:02:40.120 people should look to. 2:02:40.400 --> 2:02:43.760 If I want to mention for obviously, I work with 2:02:43.920 --> 2:02:48.480 a hangout organization. It's a trusted organization. People can follow them. 2:02:48.640 --> 2:02:53.200 And there is also a journalist called Ali Jawan Mardi. 2:02:53.360 --> 2:02:57.240 He is a supervisor at Voice of America, Kurdish, Persian 2:02:57.320 --> 2:03:01.600 and Afghanistan. And these are like for the sources that 2:03:01.680 --> 2:03:05.720 I personally trust. There are other organizations such as Curtis 2:03:05.800 --> 2:03:10.880 and Human Rights Network. There is also Iran Rights or 2:03:11.120 --> 2:03:14.800 Abdur Rahan Buruman Center for Human Rights in Iran. There 2:03:14.840 --> 2:03:20.160 are several organizations human rights organizations that are constantly reporting 2:03:20.200 --> 2:03:24.440 and they are trying to reflect what's happening and there 2:03:24.960 --> 2:03:29.080 I could say majority of them are honest and they're 2:03:29.160 --> 2:03:35.240 not trying to push for a specific narrative, especially the Palabists, 2:03:35.280 --> 2:03:39.120 because right now, if you check the media, the international media, 2:03:39.280 --> 2:03:43.520 the Iranian media such as Iran International or BBC, Persian 2:03:43.560 --> 2:03:47.080 and all of these major medias, even in the US, 2:03:47.120 --> 2:03:51.360 they are pushing for the monarchists and they are completely 2:03:51.440 --> 2:03:54.520 ignoring the other groups. 2:03:54.560 --> 2:03:55.920 Like, for example, the Kurdish people. 2:03:55.960 --> 2:03:59.840 I said, I mentioned that there was this great and 2:04:00.120 --> 2:04:03.960 big strike that happened in forty cities. It's it's a 2:04:04.120 --> 2:04:07.960 very big social act, but barely anyone talked about it. 2:04:08.040 --> 2:04:12.000 Barely anyone mentioned it. So I think it's for people 2:04:12.040 --> 2:04:16.400 it's better to follow human rights organizations and do not 2:04:16.520 --> 2:04:19.880 really fall for the things that some media that are 2:04:19.960 --> 2:04:24.520 just promoting a specific person, because they're just taking away 2:04:24.520 --> 2:04:24.960 the truth. 2:04:25.480 --> 2:04:25.839 Yeah. 2:04:26.160 --> 2:04:28.920 Yeah, I think that's a fantastic place to finish up. 2:04:28.960 --> 2:04:31.160 Thank you so much for joining. Guys, if people want 2:04:31.160 --> 2:04:33.280 to follow you, do you have any social media or 2:04:33.920 --> 2:04:35.080 people can find your work. 2:04:35.200 --> 2:04:39.320 I have my personal page, but it's not really big. 2:04:39.400 --> 2:04:42.040 I just post some slides recently, and my other page 2:04:42.040 --> 2:04:48.080 curtis signing people. It got disabled unfortunately I started. I'm 2:04:48.120 --> 2:04:52.240 just posting like some updates and like slides about the 2:04:52.280 --> 2:04:54.960 important things that I find. I can also put the 2:04:55.040 --> 2:04:56.400 links there. 2:04:56.720 --> 2:04:59.160 Yeah, will include them, believe the podcast, so people can 2:04:59.160 --> 2:04:59.640 click on them. 2:05:00.160 --> 2:05:00.360 Yeah. 2:05:00.440 --> 2:05:03.000 Yeah, fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us 2:05:03.000 --> 2:05:04.720 this evening. We really appreciate it. 2:05:05.000 --> 2:05:21.240 Yeah, thank you very much for having me again. Yeah. 2:05:21.320 --> 2:05:25.000 Why do you listen to this podcast? It may be 2:05:25.000 --> 2:05:27.880 because it's a strange comfort in naming the thing that's 2:05:27.960 --> 2:05:32.160 breathing down our X today. I want to archive this 2:05:32.240 --> 2:05:35.680 past year of systemic collapse, a pile up of small 2:05:35.720 --> 2:05:38.480 and large failures we can start to make sense of 2:05:38.520 --> 2:05:42.280 in retrospect. If we don't look back at our past 2:05:42.560 --> 2:05:46.400 and the patterns within it, if we don't keep these 2:05:46.800 --> 2:05:49.880 moments and events in our memory, it's very very easy 2:05:49.920 --> 2:05:54.720 to get stuck into a perpetually overwhelming present. Welcome to 2:05:54.760 --> 2:05:57.320 take it up in here. I'm Andrew Sage, the guy 2:05:57.360 --> 2:06:00.680 behind Andrewism on YouTube, and I'm here with. 2:06:01.200 --> 2:06:04.680 James Stout, the guy you here all the time this podcast. 2:06:05.560 --> 2:06:10.760 Welcome to your podcast. Yeah, it's nice. 2:06:11.280 --> 2:06:12.280 It's nice to do one with you. 2:06:12.840 --> 2:06:14.600 Are you ready to take a look at some of 2:06:14.600 --> 2:06:16.480 the stories that shaped twenty five. 2:06:17.440 --> 2:06:19.800 Yes, it's been a hell of a year. So did 2:06:19.840 --> 2:06:20.360 she be fun? 2:06:20.920 --> 2:06:23.880 Yeah? I mean I don't expect to be exhaustive, but 2:06:24.000 --> 2:06:26.200 we can, you know, talk about some of the incidents 2:06:26.240 --> 2:06:32.280 in climate, in politics and technology and geopolitics, and through 2:06:32.280 --> 2:06:34.960 all that, I want to ask what these stories are 2:06:35.040 --> 2:06:40.800 teaching us as anarchists, activists and just people trying to 2:06:40.880 --> 2:06:45.320 live in a society. Yeah, so I suppose first we 2:06:45.360 --> 2:06:50.280 could talk about the climate and infrastructural situations, some of 2:06:50.280 --> 2:06:53.440 them that took places. Yet it really covered all of 2:06:53.480 --> 2:06:59.800 the elements. We had heat, flooding, drought, fire storm. According 2:06:59.800 --> 2:07:04.720 to the World Meteorological Organization, global temperatures in twenty twenty 2:07:04.720 --> 2:07:07.120 five ranked among the hottest on record. 2:07:07.560 --> 2:07:07.880 Great. 2:07:08.680 --> 2:07:11.720 The WMO put twenty twenty five as likely this second 2:07:11.880 --> 2:07:16.000 or third warmest year in the observational record. So a 2:07:16.000 --> 2:07:18.760 little round of applause for hitting some miles stuarts right. 2:07:19.760 --> 2:07:21.800 Yeah, it's good to be winning. 2:07:22.600 --> 2:07:22.880 Yeah. 2:07:23.760 --> 2:07:27.720 Power systems also have been overloaded under air conditioning demand, 2:07:28.120 --> 2:07:31.920 leading to rolling blackouts in cities and rural areas, schools 2:07:31.960 --> 2:07:35.720 closing during heat waves, and mortality rising among the elderly 2:07:35.760 --> 2:07:39.640 and Preherious international agencies have worned that extreme heat is 2:07:39.640 --> 2:07:43.520 producing double digit crop losses and mass livestock die offs 2:07:43.560 --> 2:07:46.880 in some cases. Brazil in particular felt that heat in 2:07:46.920 --> 2:07:51.240 agriculture and supply chains. Staple production and food imports both 2:07:51.280 --> 2:07:53.560 suffer due to the heat, and those ripples are going 2:07:53.600 --> 2:07:55.440 to be felt for the rest of us too, because 2:07:55.560 --> 2:07:58.760 Brazil is a bread basket of sorts. It's a top 2:07:58.840 --> 2:08:03.880 exporter of tons of really important agricultural products. And the 2:08:03.920 --> 2:08:08.720 monsoons also arrived with quite a mood this year. South 2:08:08.800 --> 2:08:12.879 Asia's Turn twenty five rains came very heavy and very persistent. 2:08:13.600 --> 2:08:17.960 In many places, urban drainage, field neighborhoods became isolated by 2:08:17.960 --> 2:08:23.200 the waters. Trains and roads were unusable for days. Bangladeshi 2:08:23.200 --> 2:08:25.720 and parts of India saw a catastrophic flooding that took 2:08:25.800 --> 2:08:30.200 hundreds of lives and displaced millions. Over in the Horn 2:08:30.280 --> 2:08:34.240 of Africa, wells ran low, pastures, field and small farmers 2:08:34.240 --> 2:08:37.680 suffered under the pressures of the drought. Their water distribution 2:08:37.760 --> 2:08:42.400 systems weren't built to withstand multi year dry spells, and 2:08:42.480 --> 2:08:46.520 so hunger crisis has ended up escalating, particularly in Somalia. 2:08:47.160 --> 2:08:51.760 Yeah North America and Europe also had severe wildfires this year. 2:08:52.240 --> 2:08:54.560 At this point, it's very easy to kind of see 2:08:54.560 --> 2:08:57.840 them as a new normal, you know. Canada's Turn twenty 2:08:57.840 --> 2:09:01.280 five season pushed agencies into one of their largest domestic 2:09:01.320 --> 2:09:06.440 wildfire responses in years. Firefighters were stretched, entire towns had 2:09:06.480 --> 2:09:09.800 to evacuate, and Southern Europe, in particular Greece and Spain 2:09:10.200 --> 2:09:14.080 also saw fast moving fires that consumed homes and utilities 2:09:14.480 --> 2:09:19.640 and left landscapes scorched and infrastructure severely weakened. And then, 2:09:19.680 --> 2:09:22.600 of course they were the hurricanes. This year, The Caribbean 2:09:22.680 --> 2:09:26.120 was slammed by Hurricane Melissa, a very slow and powerful 2:09:26.200 --> 2:09:31.160 storm that devastated Jamaica, Cuba, Haiti and others, tearing up infrastructure, 2:09:31.360 --> 2:09:34.360 and they even large swaths without power for weeks. The 2:09:34.400 --> 2:09:38.600 storm's exceptional energy is of course thanks to climacy. And 2:09:38.640 --> 2:09:42.760 so all these events and I'm definitely leaving outs. I 2:09:42.760 --> 2:09:46.240 believe they review a few things. For one, I think 2:09:46.240 --> 2:09:50.000 it's clear that our systems can't handle the new extremes 2:09:50.080 --> 2:09:54.240 being brought about by climacy. They may have been built 2:09:54.280 --> 2:09:57.240 for previous normals, but not this. And this is something 2:09:57.320 --> 2:09:59.760 that climate scientists have been worn and about for some time. 2:10:00.320 --> 2:10:03.840 You know, electrical grids were sized for incremental loads, so 2:10:03.880 --> 2:10:07.560 they couldn't handle these simultaneous peak demands. Urbans to a 2:10:07.600 --> 2:10:10.800 water management was built for a particular volume of water 2:10:10.880 --> 2:10:13.360 over a particular period of time, they can handle these 2:10:13.480 --> 2:10:17.000 volumes of water that are pouring down from above. And 2:10:17.120 --> 2:10:21.280 also water management systems in more arid regions weren't prepared 2:10:21.320 --> 2:10:24.560 for years of drought, and so the systemic shocks of 2:10:24.600 --> 2:10:30.839 this year have been very devastating for infrastructure. And unlike 2:10:30.880 --> 2:10:34.240 their propaganda, which tasted they are necessary for our survival, 2:10:34.280 --> 2:10:38.680 for our well being. To manage society. State responses to 2:10:38.720 --> 2:10:44.200 these catastrophes were often reactive and chronically delayed. Government intervention 2:10:44.360 --> 2:10:48.600 and international aid helped in some places, I'm not denying that, 2:10:49.160 --> 2:10:52.160 but communities have also often found themselves on their own, 2:10:52.400 --> 2:10:57.200 having to improvise survival strategies. And of course with every 2:10:57.640 --> 2:11:02.440 disaster there's an extremely long tale of recovery after the 2:11:02.480 --> 2:11:06.280 initial crisis has passed. So it may leave the news cycle, 2:11:06.840 --> 2:11:10.040 but that people still dealing with the consequences and we'll 2:11:10.080 --> 2:11:12.560 be dealing with it in the year to come. But 2:11:12.640 --> 2:11:15.840 these disasters continue to show the ingenuity and capability of 2:11:15.960 --> 2:11:21.200 ordinary people to organize, support, distribute aid, facilitate evacuation, share resources, 2:11:21.280 --> 2:11:24.120 and so on. So we're not powerless. We don't have 2:11:24.200 --> 2:11:28.080 to be dependent on slow bureaucracies. Develop resilience. It starts 2:11:28.080 --> 2:11:31.800 with us as people being proactive, especially you know, I 2:11:31.840 --> 2:11:34.320 would say, don't wait for the disaster to happen in 2:11:34.360 --> 2:11:37.560 your area to develop a response plan. Invest your time 2:11:37.600 --> 2:11:42.000 and energy in this coming year in horizontal capacities, skill training, 2:11:42.240 --> 2:11:46.440 community drills, share two libraries, seed and food sovereignty projects, 2:11:46.720 --> 2:11:51.440 local medical knowledge, decentralized energy and water projects. I don't 2:11:51.600 --> 2:11:54.480 place much on the demands of the state, but they 2:11:54.520 --> 2:11:56.920 are also sometimes granted to may be able to apply 2:11:57.040 --> 2:12:01.040 for that. Can you know, secure some resources in community hands, 2:12:01.680 --> 2:12:05.760 and of course keep documenting these incidents as they're happening. 2:12:06.200 --> 2:12:08.280 You know, don't wait for a disaster to hit your 2:12:08.280 --> 2:12:11.040 area to learn the lessons that other places had to learn, 2:12:11.840 --> 2:12:15.240 you know, go and see where your vulnerabilities lie un 2:12:15.440 --> 2:12:19.440 others have done to respond, Train people wh necessary, and 2:12:19.560 --> 2:12:22.160 just try and keep up to good fight. Would you 2:12:22.160 --> 2:12:26.400 say there was a particular environmental crisis for natural disaster 2:12:26.480 --> 2:12:27.840 the year that really stood out to you. 2:12:28.280 --> 2:12:28.920 I mean to me. 2:12:29.120 --> 2:12:31.880 I think the ones that I just because they're personally 2:12:31.920 --> 2:12:35.400 related to places I've been were the earthquake in Memma, 2:12:35.840 --> 2:12:39.800 right where we saw not only people die as a 2:12:39.800 --> 2:12:43.400 result of natural disaster, but people die as a result 2:12:43.560 --> 2:12:47.840 of the state considering it's desire to keep people in 2:12:47.880 --> 2:12:50.680 mem r away from the world more important than their lives, right, 2:12:50.760 --> 2:12:53.520 like the state choosing not to allow search and rescue 2:12:53.560 --> 2:12:57.800 teams from France, for example, to enter and instead like 2:12:58.240 --> 2:13:00.160 you know folks I know who are fighting and the 2:13:00.240 --> 2:13:03.280 revolution in the Ammar, like laying down their arms and 2:13:04.200 --> 2:13:07.480 trying to work out how to pull collapse buildings apart 2:13:07.560 --> 2:13:11.160 before the people in them died exactly. I think that 2:13:11.200 --> 2:13:14.040 it really was like the poly crisis and then the 2:13:14.320 --> 2:13:17.880 flooding of indigenous communities in Alaska, right, the coastal communities 2:13:18.920 --> 2:13:21.360 that we saw like a month or so ago, And 2:13:21.400 --> 2:13:24.640 that one hit me particularly hard because like these people 2:13:24.680 --> 2:13:28.640 have been screaming for a decade that climate change has come. 2:13:28.840 --> 2:13:32.400 It's not coming, it's come right like the like the 2:13:32.520 --> 2:13:34.160 end is not nigh for them, the end is here. 2:13:34.200 --> 2:13:37.440 The ways of life are being destroyed by climate change, 2:13:37.720 --> 2:13:41.920 and the whole communities got wiped out right just before winter, 2:13:42.000 --> 2:13:44.000 and in a place which has one of the hardest 2:13:44.000 --> 2:13:47.200 winters on Earth. All their food caches, right, because these 2:13:47.200 --> 2:13:49.920 are people who tend to to fish for a lot 2:13:49.960 --> 2:13:54.120 of food, so they cash food they don't go to 2:13:54.160 --> 2:13:57.960 the store, were also wiped out. Like it's just one 2:13:58.000 --> 2:14:02.200 of those examples of like one can't be prepared enough 2:14:02.920 --> 2:14:05.080 to deal with things and one can't control, right, And 2:14:05.080 --> 2:14:07.640 one of the things that we can't control is climate change, 2:14:07.640 --> 2:14:08.600 and it's coming. 2:14:08.320 --> 2:14:10.520 For all of us, but yeah, it's coming for some 2:14:10.560 --> 2:14:11.280 people foost. 2:14:11.680 --> 2:14:14.360 Yeah, and it's always going to be indigenous and more 2:14:14.400 --> 2:14:17.280 marginalized people, right whose plate is ignored. Like people can 2:14:17.320 --> 2:14:20.760 say climate change isn't real because they have the relative 2:14:20.800 --> 2:14:24.720 privilege of not having their homes destroyed. And like, rebuilding 2:14:24.720 --> 2:14:28.000 those communities will be very, very hard because the only 2:14:28.040 --> 2:14:29.680 way to get there is on a tiny little plane 2:14:29.760 --> 2:14:32.760 or a boat, and everything they've got there is taking 2:14:32.800 --> 2:14:36.680 generations to build and it's all gone. Yeah, So those 2:14:36.720 --> 2:14:38.440 two really struck me. 2:14:39.520 --> 2:14:41.640 Yeah, I think I take ways from what you've shared there, 2:14:41.960 --> 2:14:45.560 as the state will often get in the way, Yes, 2:14:45.840 --> 2:14:49.160 of our survival will well be in Yeah, and that 2:14:50.160 --> 2:14:53.240 you know, the crisis is here and it's already hitting people, 2:14:54.000 --> 2:14:56.280 and just the people are being hit right now, are 2:14:56.280 --> 2:15:00.560 the ones designated as sacrificial arms? Yeah, in a sense 2:15:00.600 --> 2:15:05.200 for the continued pursuit of economic growth and progress. 2:15:05.720 --> 2:15:17.440 Yeah. 2:15:17.640 --> 2:15:23.600 Two twenty five also saw an accelerated political coming of age. 2:15:24.160 --> 2:15:27.280 You know, gen Z has not been all teenagers for 2:15:27.280 --> 2:15:31.040 a very long time now, it's been mostly adults or 2:15:31.320 --> 2:15:33.600 soon to be mostly adults at this point, depending on 2:15:33.600 --> 2:15:36.960 where you draw the line. And that generation our my 2:15:37.080 --> 2:15:42.000 generation has shown up in the numbers for the past 2:15:42.040 --> 2:15:45.880 few years, but particularly this year, inspiring millions. You know, 2:15:45.960 --> 2:15:48.840 gen Z became a very visible political force in the 2:15:48.880 --> 2:15:57.120 headlines across very different geographies. Madagascar, Morocco, Kenya, Nepal, Peru, 2:15:57.440 --> 2:16:02.160 and Mexico all had uprisings driven by a mix of 2:16:02.320 --> 2:16:06.280 grievances rather be corruption, the cost of live in, lack 2:16:06.320 --> 2:16:10.080 of services, violent policing, and a feeling that all institutions 2:16:10.120 --> 2:16:13.680 had nothing to offer. Now, these movements were not a monolith, 2:16:14.200 --> 2:16:16.880 you know, but they did have some common templates. You know. 2:16:16.920 --> 2:16:21.440 They organized digitally on platforms like discord or telegram, and 2:16:21.840 --> 2:16:25.120 they mobilized very quickly, a lot faster than states were 2:16:25.160 --> 2:16:28.440 originally able to keep up with. In Madagascar, the youth 2:16:28.480 --> 2:16:32.440 had mobilized during water, power cuts and broader corruption, which 2:16:32.480 --> 2:16:35.760 eventually toppled the rule in government and triggered military moves 2:16:35.800 --> 2:16:38.160 in the form of a kulita. But it doesn't seem 2:16:38.240 --> 2:16:41.320 so far that anything fruitful, stable or lasting has come 2:16:41.360 --> 2:16:44.560 out of their cause quite yet. Right now Madagascar is 2:16:44.600 --> 2:16:47.560 a military kernel for president, so it remains we see 2:16:47.560 --> 2:16:53.560 in what that leadership brings. In Morocco, the movement gen 2:16:53.680 --> 2:16:57.400 Z two on two organized demand better education and healthcare, 2:16:57.720 --> 2:17:01.000 decent housing, and jobs, and we're eventually met with state 2:17:01.040 --> 2:17:04.800 pushback in the form of arrests and infiltrations. Now they 2:17:04.840 --> 2:17:07.520 eventually won some concessions from the government in the form 2:17:07.560 --> 2:17:10.920 of greater funding in this sectors demanded and draft bills 2:17:10.920 --> 2:17:14.360 that incentivize youth participation in the official channels of power. 2:17:14.840 --> 2:17:16.800 But it remains we've seen how long that will quell 2:17:16.840 --> 2:17:20.039 the tide, because it seems to me at least that 2:17:20.120 --> 2:17:23.600 this is the classic tactic of, you know, incorporating a 2:17:23.720 --> 2:17:28.000 radical movement into the machinations of the state to temper 2:17:28.080 --> 2:17:32.840 its energy. Yeah, in Kenya, we saw mass mobilization against 2:17:32.879 --> 2:17:36.440 police brutality that was met with yet more police brutality 2:17:36.600 --> 2:17:40.720 and extra judicial killings, now numbering in the sixties. With 2:17:40.840 --> 2:17:44.560 a very clear aim for the suppression of descent. So far, 2:17:45.440 --> 2:17:48.720 none of their goals have really been recognized or achieved 2:17:49.080 --> 2:17:52.440 as a movement, and it seems as though they've similed 2:17:52.480 --> 2:17:55.480 down due to the share violence that they are faced 2:17:55.520 --> 2:17:59.840 in response. In Nepal, perhaps the most famous of these 2:18:00.040 --> 2:18:04.480 worries for this year, the students led uprisings topple the 2:18:04.520 --> 2:18:08.560 corrupt government and forced concessions with an election coming up 2:18:08.720 --> 2:18:12.320 next year twenty twenty six. But again, what comes next 2:18:13.400 --> 2:18:16.480 is yet to be seen. Whether it be lasting, empowering, 2:18:16.560 --> 2:18:21.120 or sustainable is an open question. It's another uprising where 2:18:21.160 --> 2:18:24.720 in my view, the fundamental institutions have not been overcome 2:18:24.879 --> 2:18:30.160 and thus their goals will not be achieved mediately. But 2:18:30.879 --> 2:18:35.200 I think every movement, every generation has their place for 2:18:35.440 --> 2:18:39.920 political development and figuring out some of these shortcomings of 2:18:39.959 --> 2:18:45.360 these approaches. But I think because of how tight the 2:18:45.440 --> 2:18:49.680 timeline is for the need for like radically drastic action 2:18:50.360 --> 2:18:52.160 for the sake of the planet and for the people 2:18:52.160 --> 2:18:57.080 on it, I really wish that these lessons were learned 2:18:57.080 --> 2:18:59.400 a bit quicker. You know that we didn't have to 2:18:59.440 --> 2:19:03.560 go through these seam cycles of you know, missteps again 2:19:03.600 --> 2:19:07.440 and again with movements. Yeah, you're right, what it means 2:19:07.440 --> 2:19:11.160 to be seen whether that sort of political development can 2:19:11.200 --> 2:19:14.200 be accelerated as the crisis accelerates. 2:19:14.600 --> 2:19:19.080 Yeah, Like I feel for the youth, like like now 2:19:19.640 --> 2:19:23.199 these revolutions, a sense of urgency is so high, right 2:19:23.280 --> 2:19:28.000 because the system, Like, if you're a millennial, I guess 2:19:28.200 --> 2:19:31.400 you grew up. If you're me, maybe I'm saying here, 2:19:31.600 --> 2:19:33.400 like really you grew up. You know, you were told 2:19:33.400 --> 2:19:35.080 like things will always get better and you will work 2:19:35.120 --> 2:19:37.480 hard and like just like your folks, you will buy 2:19:37.480 --> 2:19:39.720 a house in the house will get more valuable and 2:19:39.720 --> 2:19:41.480 that will be nice and blah blah blah. Right if 2:19:41.520 --> 2:19:44.560 you live in in this sort of the colonial core 2:19:45.360 --> 2:19:47.400 and that didn't work out for most of us, but 2:19:47.480 --> 2:19:51.240 for for gen Z folks, it's like the town that 2:19:51.280 --> 2:19:54.560 you live and will continue to exist is up for debate, right, 2:19:54.720 --> 2:19:58.280 Like the climate that you were born in will be 2:19:59.040 --> 2:20:03.000 completely stink from the one that you have children raise 2:20:03.120 --> 2:20:07.360 children in. Probably the urgency of the need for change 2:20:07.400 --> 2:20:10.720 is so much with young people today, right, Like, you know, yeah, 2:20:10.720 --> 2:20:14.160 the economy that my generation was promised doesn't exist for us, 2:20:14.600 --> 2:20:18.320 but the planet that gen Z was promised isn't going 2:20:18.400 --> 2:20:22.240 to exist for them. And the information system is so 2:20:22.520 --> 2:20:26.080 fucked for young people today, right, and so captured by 2:20:26.080 --> 2:20:30.320 corporate and state interests. And yet despite that, or maybe 2:20:30.400 --> 2:20:32.640 because of that, we've seen some of the most beautiful 2:20:32.680 --> 2:20:35.880 revolutions that I can recall, Right, Like, when I speak 2:20:35.879 --> 2:20:39.560 to gen Z folks in Myanmar, they approach the revolution 2:20:39.720 --> 2:20:42.240 in a distinct way from the way that like the 2:20:42.320 --> 2:20:45.760 revolutions I'm familiar with from the nineties and two thousands did, 2:20:45.840 --> 2:20:50.480 but also just from like a very human desire for 2:20:50.560 --> 2:20:53.720 a better world, for equality, for a beautiful life. And 2:20:54.240 --> 2:20:57.480 so like, I'm very hopeful at the same time as 2:20:57.879 --> 2:21:01.320 I feel for people of the younger generation. 2:21:02.520 --> 2:21:04.560 Yeah, yeah, I think there's there's a lot of cause 2:21:04.600 --> 2:21:07.880 for hope that such numbers can be mobilized. But I 2:21:07.879 --> 2:21:11.160 would love to see those numbers get mobilized in the 2:21:11.160 --> 2:21:14.160 countries that we've been talking about a more radical be 2:21:14.480 --> 2:21:19.400 than simply bringing demands to the state or or changing 2:21:19.440 --> 2:21:21.039 up one government for another. 2:21:21.280 --> 2:21:23.920 You know, yeah, yeah, I mean in the case of 2:21:23.959 --> 2:21:27.480 me and Marlika. That's certainly like that is the case, right, 2:21:27.520 --> 2:21:30.360 Like they're not thinking about changing one running party for another, 2:21:30.400 --> 2:21:35.240 They're thinking about changing the way governance works, right, They're 2:21:35.240 --> 2:21:38.520 like bringing democracy to people. To be clear, there isn't 2:21:38.520 --> 2:21:42.039 really a coherent set of exact demands for the revolution, 2:21:42.200 --> 2:21:43.880 but many of the young people they speak to are 2:21:43.879 --> 2:21:46.480 looking at how can we create a model that doesn't 2:21:46.560 --> 2:21:49.600 allow for a genocide to happen against one group, that 2:21:49.680 --> 2:21:53.000 doesn't allow for the military to walk into one building 2:21:53.040 --> 2:21:56.000 and take away everyone's future. And I think that's very. 2:21:55.920 --> 2:22:01.800 Beautiful exactly, that's that's inspiring. Yeah, yeah, I think asking 2:22:01.879 --> 2:22:05.640 those questions and asking even more questions, I think as 2:22:05.760 --> 2:22:08.720 how this generation is going to get to, you know, 2:22:08.879 --> 2:22:16.760 certain conclusions about whether this current project should continue. Yeah, 2:22:17.000 --> 2:22:22.400 this current state project, this current capitalist project, this current 2:22:22.440 --> 2:22:26.680 patriarchal project. The more questions get asked, the more answers 2:22:26.720 --> 2:22:29.480 get illuminated, and the closes, I think we can get 2:22:29.920 --> 2:22:33.880 to a viable and liberatory alternative. 2:22:34.840 --> 2:22:37.600 Yeah, yeah, definitely the case. And I think some of 2:22:37.600 --> 2:22:40.440 this is just like some of it we have to 2:22:40.520 --> 2:22:43.920 work out on the way and that's okay. Like I 2:22:43.920 --> 2:22:46.959 think the twentieth century, the idea of a revolution was 2:22:47.040 --> 2:22:49.960 like this violent seizure of state power, often by a 2:22:50.040 --> 2:22:54.440 vanguard group with a very specific project that they were 2:22:54.440 --> 2:22:57.800 looking to implement. Right, And in the twenty first century, 2:22:57.840 --> 2:23:01.640 we haven't seen that, or the time, we have seen 2:23:01.680 --> 2:23:03.880 a lot more of like this is bad and it 2:23:03.920 --> 2:23:06.160 has to change, and we're going to make it change, 2:23:06.200 --> 2:23:09.160 and we'll work out which direction we're moving as we go. 2:23:09.720 --> 2:23:13.879 Yeah. Yeah, then that's latently ideological, I'd. 2:23:13.680 --> 2:23:15.959 Say, yeah, And like I think that's a good thing 2:23:16.080 --> 2:23:18.840 because what we've seen I mean, I mean, we have 2:23:18.959 --> 2:23:21.560 seen like this, this idea that revolutions have to stick 2:23:21.560 --> 2:23:25.879 to a strict pathway have horrific consequences for humanity. Right, 2:23:25.959 --> 2:23:28.400 Like I'm thinking of the Gulag, you know, like the 2:23:28.600 --> 2:23:34.240 thinking of the strict ideology which allowed the Soviet Union 2:23:34.280 --> 2:23:37.400 to become this place where where you created, like you know, 2:23:37.440 --> 2:23:40.080 the things that all were were about in nineteen eighty four. Right, 2:23:40.360 --> 2:23:42.720 it is better that a revolutionarized on what the people 2:23:42.840 --> 2:23:45.119 want as they continue to move through it, rather than 2:23:45.160 --> 2:23:48.320 saying we will tell the people what they need and 2:23:48.360 --> 2:23:50.080 we'll be the one steering the ship here. 2:23:50.600 --> 2:23:53.440 Yeah, that will model is not going to get us 2:23:53.440 --> 2:23:58.480 all to this NOP so. Honestly, my observation of the 2:23:58.520 --> 2:24:02.080 sur political shifts of this year has re exposed the 2:24:02.120 --> 2:24:06.879 flaws of traditional politics and parties, how they've largely sued 2:24:06.920 --> 2:24:11.200 as gatekeepers to suppress, to absorb and blunt the energy 2:24:11.320 --> 2:24:15.880 is the massive and show the potential of spontaneous uprisings. 2:24:16.800 --> 2:24:18.760 But I think this year also show that we cannot 2:24:18.840 --> 2:24:21.560 keep rising up again and again and again and again, 2:24:22.240 --> 2:24:26.160 you know, feeding bodies to the brutal police forces and 2:24:26.240 --> 2:24:30.760 prison systems. You know, for movements to matters beyond these 2:24:30.800 --> 2:24:35.240 episodes of disruption, I believe they need to develop infrastructure. 2:24:36.280 --> 2:24:40.280 You know, let's let's let's do something that lasts longer 2:24:40.320 --> 2:24:43.760 than a headline, and of course the actions that you know, 2:24:44.040 --> 2:24:45.880 I'm not denying that some of these movements are in 2:24:46.000 --> 2:24:49.640 eh and building infrastructure. It's just that those sorts of 2:24:49.959 --> 2:24:53.480 efforts are less likely to make the international use headlines. 2:24:54.520 --> 2:24:57.759 You know. But I love to see these centralized mobilizations. 2:24:57.959 --> 2:24:59.959 I just want to see them paid with something more 2:25:00.320 --> 2:25:03.680 refigurative politics that can sustain them, that can expand the 2:25:03.800 --> 2:25:06.840 zones of freedom they can tune. They will mentum into 2:25:06.920 --> 2:25:10.520 lasting change. I will say that I appreciate that these 2:25:10.520 --> 2:25:14.119 movements have and breazed tactical variety. You know that they 2:25:14.120 --> 2:25:17.840 have largely understood the need for anonymity. But I don't 2:25:17.879 --> 2:25:21.160 want them to keep fall into this trap of this 2:25:21.280 --> 2:25:25.280 sort of dissipation of energy. They get a government concession 2:25:25.320 --> 2:25:29.160 and they dissipate that there's not a long term ambition, 2:25:30.160 --> 2:25:36.200 or they're not enough steps being taken to resist infiltration 2:25:36.400 --> 2:25:40.879 and surveillance through operational security. I think that if that 2:25:41.360 --> 2:25:45.920 you know, OPSEEC is not present, it's very easy for 2:25:46.520 --> 2:25:49.600 these movements get disrupted from within. You know, platforms like 2:25:49.640 --> 2:25:52.800 Discord have already proven themselves to be ops you know, 2:25:52.879 --> 2:25:56.560 to these kinds of causes. They will willingly sell people out. 2:25:57.160 --> 2:26:01.000 But I have a lot of hope and say that tentatively, 2:26:01.360 --> 2:26:05.960 but we can stand up for something that some line 2:26:06.080 --> 2:26:10.160 can be drawn somewhere. Because even though an uprising like 2:26:10.200 --> 2:26:13.039 the one in Nepal or Morocco hasn't taken place in 2:26:13.520 --> 2:26:16.320 Trinidad yet, I mean, we've been under a state of 2:26:16.320 --> 2:26:19.160 emergency for the entire time that this new government has 2:26:19.160 --> 2:26:22.600 been in power. I will say that I often in 2:26:22.720 --> 2:26:26.520 you know, casual conversation here rumbling. So we need to 2:26:26.560 --> 2:26:29.720 do what Nepal did, you know? We need to do it, 2:26:29.800 --> 2:26:32.840 proved it. And I think that's the power, the potential 2:26:33.080 --> 2:26:37.600 of these kind of moments. Even if they don't lead 2:26:37.600 --> 2:26:42.080 to something lasting in the immediate aftermath, they still save 2:26:42.120 --> 2:26:47.040 as an inspiration. They still open up the landscape of possibilities. 2:26:47.600 --> 2:26:50.680 Yeah, what's so Commandente Marcus used to say it was 2:26:50.720 --> 2:26:52.520 like to open up a pinprick of light in the 2:26:52.520 --> 2:26:57.040 curtain of darkness exactly. Yeahs to show people what it's possible. 2:26:57.120 --> 2:26:59.600 That's a perfect expression. I actually never did that quote before. 2:26:59.720 --> 2:27:00.440 That's good one. 2:27:00.520 --> 2:27:02.440 Yeah, I used to read a lot of Apia Steps. 2:27:02.520 --> 2:27:05.000 I think you had some wonderful ways of expressing things. 2:27:05.440 --> 2:27:09.400 Yeah, gen Z is not going to save anyone. You know, 2:27:09.640 --> 2:27:12.840 as a generation, we're just as susceptible to flaws and 2:27:12.920 --> 2:27:16.040 resurrections as any other. There are those who are invested 2:27:16.080 --> 2:27:19.000 in welfare and anti corruption, and they are those who 2:27:19.000 --> 2:27:23.280 are invested in reactionary popularism. But the waves of uprisings 2:27:23.360 --> 2:27:27.040 I think are mostly positive. And I just hope that 2:27:27.040 --> 2:27:31.760 that that spark can light a fire and the way 2:27:31.760 --> 2:27:33.360 that we get that spark to light that fire. So 2:27:33.520 --> 2:27:37.800 we put fuel in place, fuel like networks, fuel like collectives, 2:27:38.800 --> 2:27:42.080 unions and so on. Oh when speaking of unions, I 2:27:42.120 --> 2:27:45.920 forgot to mention this. Ye, India actually had a coalition 2:27:46.080 --> 2:27:50.560 of major trade unions stagion nationwide protests and strikes this 2:27:50.760 --> 2:27:55.400 year against the new labor codes. That's cool, So shout 2:27:55.400 --> 2:27:56.200 out to them as well. 2:27:56.760 --> 2:28:00.280 Yeah. Yeah, especially in a state which is uh, it's 2:28:00.280 --> 2:28:02.520 not necessarily know like you will, they will cut down 2:28:02.560 --> 2:28:05.240 pretty hard on you in the ear if you stand 2:28:05.320 --> 2:28:07.279 up against the state indeed. 2:28:07.920 --> 2:28:09.680 And so to wrap the section, I think I'll say 2:28:09.680 --> 2:28:14.600 that twenty twenty five protests show a fraction of our frustration, 2:28:15.320 --> 2:28:18.000 but they also show that we can't just keep screaming 2:28:18.040 --> 2:28:21.240 into the void, you know. Yeah, the ruptures that come 2:28:21.280 --> 2:28:24.959 in twenty twenty six and beyond need to start from 2:28:25.000 --> 2:28:29.400 somewhere other than scratch, if you want to say tech crises. Now, 2:28:29.480 --> 2:28:32.400 I think as EI continued to boom in twenty twenty five, 2:28:32.920 --> 2:28:37.000 we saw a massive build out of physical infrastructure, data centers, 2:28:37.040 --> 2:28:42.160 server farms, water hungry cooling systems, and energy hungry hardware. Yeah, 2:28:42.240 --> 2:28:44.440 it's very easy to think of the Internet as a cloud, 2:28:44.879 --> 2:28:48.039 but it's a very physical thing. It demands land, water, 2:28:48.240 --> 2:28:54.400 and electricity. It strains local communities, It drains local communities 2:28:54.440 --> 2:28:59.760 of resources. The water use of data centers in particular, 2:29:00.160 --> 2:29:03.640 can eat up millions of liters of water daily, taken 2:29:03.680 --> 2:29:08.119 away from households and agricultural needs. In fact, data centers 2:29:08.160 --> 2:29:10.760 in the US now consume more than four percent of 2:29:10.800 --> 2:29:15.040 total electricity, with over half still being powered by fossil fuel. 2:29:15.160 --> 2:29:19.520 Jesus. Yeah, Like how much electricity we use in the US. 2:29:19.520 --> 2:29:21.560 Like we go hard on electric right, Like. 2:29:22.160 --> 2:29:25.960 Yeah, so four percent is quite a jump from something 2:29:26.000 --> 2:29:31.320 that basically didn't exist ten years ago, five years ago, exactly. Yeah, 2:29:31.560 --> 2:29:33.760 And so all this scaling up of AI is pushing 2:29:33.800 --> 2:29:37.440 us much faster towards the limits of growth. You know. 2:29:37.440 --> 2:29:41.480 It feels like we are being ruled by accelerationists at times, 2:29:42.240 --> 2:29:44.160 you know. And all the while we have these tech 2:29:44.200 --> 2:29:47.680 browers pushing their text savior gospel on us, even though 2:29:47.720 --> 2:29:51.800 it's very clear that AI is just another vector of extraction, consumption, 2:29:52.360 --> 2:29:56.279 and inequality. Yeah, there's just another way for the owners 2:29:56.280 --> 2:29:59.560 of profit to gain greater control of our data and 2:29:59.640 --> 2:30:03.120 greater surveillance over our lives. What I am proud of 2:30:03.360 --> 2:30:06.120 is that people continue to speak out against it, to 2:30:06.240 --> 2:30:08.760 challenge it, to question it, to call it out wherever 2:30:08.800 --> 2:30:13.000 they see it. There are people who refuse to support 2:30:13.200 --> 2:30:15.960 you know, YouTube channels that are pushing out AI music 2:30:16.120 --> 2:30:19.160 or EI visuals or EI scripts, people who refusing to 2:30:19.200 --> 2:30:23.440 support you know, pages and profiles that have those kinds 2:30:23.440 --> 2:30:26.520 of things or companies that use those sort of that software. 2:30:27.040 --> 2:30:28.880 We have to keep that energy up, we have to 2:30:28.959 --> 2:30:31.320 keep it going, and we're asying to buildings that will 2:30:31.400 --> 2:30:36.800 increase our ability to operate outside of the AI fueled 2:30:36.920 --> 2:30:41.560 the corporate overlord Internet that many of us currently exist 2:30:41.720 --> 2:30:47.240 as pseudo safs within. Yeah, you know, there's a lot 2:30:47.280 --> 2:30:50.360 of roof open source software integital commands that are out 2:30:50.440 --> 2:30:53.560 of the hands of corporations that we can venture into. 2:30:54.200 --> 2:30:58.640 You know, tech is contested ter rain that the tech 2:30:58.760 --> 2:31:02.320 ordgarchs are currently winning. But that araine is something that 2:31:02.400 --> 2:31:04.720 we can continue to challenge into the new year. 2:31:05.000 --> 2:31:05.480 Definitely. 2:31:17.320 --> 2:31:21.680 But geopolitics in twenty thirty five was a catalogue of 2:31:21.760 --> 2:31:26.600 catastrophes from continuing was fueled by a cast of properties 2:31:27.040 --> 2:31:31.280 to straight up genocides. So in Palestini we saw this 2:31:31.360 --> 2:31:36.480 year repeated rounds of siege, bombardment and cruelty, repeated cease 2:31:36.560 --> 2:31:40.040 fire violations and the part of Israel, all enabled by 2:31:40.040 --> 2:31:45.480 America's military support and political cover. To this day, food, 2:31:45.760 --> 2:31:49.520 water and medical provisions continue to be strained as a 2:31:49.520 --> 2:31:54.800 result of Israel's genocidal ambitions. In Sudan, the fractures they 2:31:54.840 --> 2:31:59.000 have only worsened as the bloodshed famously can be seen 2:31:59.000 --> 2:32:04.200 from space. Millions have been internally displaced, the casualties are 2:32:04.200 --> 2:32:09.280 currently incalculable, and the fighting between the Sudanese armed forces 2:32:09.320 --> 2:32:13.320 and the rapid support forces rages on, all supported by 2:32:13.480 --> 2:32:18.120 regional powers including Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. In 2:32:18.160 --> 2:32:22.320 the Democratic Republic of the Congo, conflicting armed groups supported 2:32:22.320 --> 2:32:26.199 by the government of the DRC and the neighboring Rwanda, respectively, 2:32:26.760 --> 2:32:31.640 have continued attacking communities and the infrastructure, inflicting mass rapes, 2:32:31.920 --> 2:32:35.520 and engaging in other war crimes, all while funded by 2:32:35.600 --> 2:32:39.599 mining operations in one of the most resource rich regions 2:32:39.640 --> 2:32:43.880 in the world. In Yemen, the violence continues for tens 2:32:43.920 --> 2:32:47.360 of millions as the saudil That coalition, the UAE and 2:32:47.480 --> 2:32:51.320 Western powers continues to supply arms, logistics and diplomatic cover 2:32:51.720 --> 2:32:55.680 for the displacement, collapse, and brutality inflicted upon the civilians 2:32:55.720 --> 2:32:59.840 of the country. In Ukraine, the war with Russia continues 2:32:59.840 --> 2:33:04.520 to consume resources and lives. In the Caribbean Sea, the 2:33:04.640 --> 2:33:07.360 US ramped up its violence as it targets and bombs 2:33:07.360 --> 2:33:10.560 boats and international waters that it alleges are carrying drugs, 2:33:10.879 --> 2:33:13.039 and appears some gear enough for some kind of operation 2:33:13.440 --> 2:33:18.920 against Venezuela and Myanmar. Resistant groups continue to fight against 2:33:18.959 --> 2:33:23.439 the military junta, which continues to receive economic and political 2:33:23.480 --> 2:33:28.000 cover from neighboring China. Now this isn't exhaustive, so because 2:33:28.040 --> 2:33:30.800 I know if I missed any of the major stories 2:33:30.840 --> 2:33:32.880 from this year, there's so many. 2:33:33.760 --> 2:33:36.120 Yeah, it's so sad to think about this new drone 2:33:36.120 --> 2:33:39.440 war that we're starting in Venezuela, right, and we will 2:33:39.440 --> 2:33:43.720 probably start another one in this at hell soon. You know, 2:33:43.800 --> 2:33:47.240 it's very easy for those things to seem tangential to 2:33:47.320 --> 2:33:50.560 our lives. I have experienced what it's like to be 2:33:50.640 --> 2:33:54.000 in a place where drones are killing people every day. 2:33:54.680 --> 2:33:58.760 What that does to you, Just like not knowing who's 2:33:58.800 --> 2:34:00.720 going to get killed tonight, right, woul't be you very 2:34:00.760 --> 2:34:04.160 unlikely might be might be someone you saw today, might 2:34:04.200 --> 2:34:06.600 be someone you've ever met. Dozens of people get killed, 2:34:06.680 --> 2:34:09.920 but thousands of people have to live in with this 2:34:10.080 --> 2:34:12.440 sense of fear and maybe after a while you get 2:34:12.520 --> 2:34:14.600 used to it. I don't know, but I don't think 2:34:15.240 --> 2:34:18.560 we realize like potential of the human joy even though 2:34:18.560 --> 2:34:22.000 it's not like in this case, not like a ground war, right, 2:34:22.080 --> 2:34:23.920 like for many people don't see it as a war. 2:34:24.600 --> 2:34:28.120 The terrible trauma that that causes, not just to the 2:34:28.160 --> 2:34:29.840 people who are killed in their families, but to so 2:34:29.879 --> 2:34:32.560 many other people who have to live with the knowledge 2:34:32.600 --> 2:34:35.000 that like they could be killed in the world wouldn't care. 2:34:35.920 --> 2:34:40.200 Yeah, I mean that the mental torment and trauma even 2:34:40.240 --> 2:34:45.160 if you survive, Yeah, something like Palestine or something like Sudan, Yeah, 2:34:45.720 --> 2:34:46.960 that's going to stay with you for the rest of 2:34:47.000 --> 2:34:50.640 your life. I don't reverberate in future generations, even generations 2:34:50.640 --> 2:34:54.640 that they not experience the genocide directly, do not experience 2:34:54.720 --> 2:34:58.039 the war directly, they're still going to feel that in 2:34:58.040 --> 2:35:01.320 the every ones in the way that you know, the 2:35:01.360 --> 2:35:04.000 generations of that experience that interact with them in the 2:35:04.040 --> 2:35:04.960 stories that they tell. 2:35:05.480 --> 2:35:09.240 Yeah, it's yeah, that trauma lives for a long time, right, 2:35:09.480 --> 2:35:13.960 and trauma creates sometimes a cycle of violence, right, Like 2:35:14.040 --> 2:35:17.760 it's it's not a good thing. Yeah, But the idea 2:35:17.800 --> 2:35:19.640 of drone warfare is the idea of that these like 2:35:19.800 --> 2:35:23.440 clean surgical strikes. That's not how war works, that's not 2:35:23.480 --> 2:35:27.320 how killing works, that's not how explosive warheads work. 2:35:27.800 --> 2:35:28.000 Yeah. 2:35:28.720 --> 2:35:33.200 I remember in Rajare sat down with a family who 2:35:33.200 --> 2:35:35.920 had lost their son who had just turned fourteen, and 2:35:36.040 --> 2:35:41.800 like thinking of the waves of repercussion from that one bomb, 2:35:41.879 --> 2:35:44.520 and hundreds of bombs fell that year, you know, And 2:35:44.560 --> 2:35:47.760 that was just in Syria. Thousands of these drone bombs 2:35:47.959 --> 2:35:50.520 fell all around the world, and for the most part, 2:35:50.520 --> 2:35:53.640 people didn't remark on it and didn't care. But that's 2:35:53.680 --> 2:35:54.560 happening more now. 2:35:55.400 --> 2:35:55.640 Yeah. 2:35:55.720 --> 2:35:58.880 I mean it's very very easy to zoom out and 2:35:59.000 --> 2:36:02.879 just think of the pures statistics, the pure numbers, because 2:36:03.040 --> 2:36:07.040 when you actually zoom in and even an individual incident 2:36:07.720 --> 2:36:13.000 that is an entire lifetime affected, multiple lifetimes affected by 2:36:13.040 --> 2:36:17.720 even one building being leveled or one bullet being fired. 2:36:18.680 --> 2:36:22.039 Yeah, And I think there's a reason we don't put 2:36:22.080 --> 2:36:24.200 on war like that, right, Like I try to when 2:36:24.240 --> 2:36:27.440 I write my stuff, because like, everyone's life is the 2:36:27.480 --> 2:36:31.400 most valuable thing they have, and every death of the 2:36:31.480 --> 2:36:36.359 tragedy it's hard on the reporter, like, it's not sustainable. 2:36:36.800 --> 2:36:40.720 Fox you up and be people wouldn't like wars if 2:36:40.720 --> 2:36:43.440 we get like you see it to an extent in 2:36:43.480 --> 2:36:48.240 the way that the European nations talked about World War One, 2:36:49.160 --> 2:36:54.800 right like, to get a significant number of upper class 2:36:54.879 --> 2:36:57.640 British people to be opposed to the concept of warfare. 2:36:57.640 --> 2:37:01.119 It's quite a remarkable in dev right like that those 2:37:01.160 --> 2:37:03.760 are people who have gone to schools whose sole purpose 2:37:03.879 --> 2:37:06.680 was to raise them as military officers for empire from 2:37:06.760 --> 2:37:09.800 the age of five. Yeah, but we saw it after 2:37:09.840 --> 2:37:12.840 World War One, because the war wasn't abstract, right, it 2:37:12.920 --> 2:37:16.199 was close by. The people dying weren't a different class 2:37:16.280 --> 2:37:20.600 or race. They were everyone, and especially young upper class 2:37:20.640 --> 2:37:23.520 men who became officers, right like. But somehow along the 2:37:23.560 --> 2:37:27.160 way since then, we've lost that and we've we've convinced 2:37:27.160 --> 2:37:31.600 ourselves that this is something that like, it'sn't a human tragedy, 2:37:31.640 --> 2:37:33.280 even if it doesn't involve us. 2:37:33.680 --> 2:37:37.240 Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned in World War One in particular, 2:37:37.320 --> 2:37:42.160 because I actually sat down to finally watch or quiet 2:37:42.160 --> 2:37:45.360 in the Western Front. Oh yeah, last night I watched 2:37:45.400 --> 2:37:47.120 like the first five minutes and I was like, I 2:37:47.120 --> 2:37:48.480 don't know if I could watch this right now, And 2:37:48.560 --> 2:37:51.000 we're going to watch something else. Yeah, that's it. And 2:37:51.040 --> 2:37:54.800 that's a movie, you know, it's not even the real thing. 2:37:55.000 --> 2:37:58.560 It's a fictional depiction of the occurrence. And I felt 2:37:58.560 --> 2:37:59.360 like I was there. 2:37:59.720 --> 2:38:01.600 Yeah, and I don't like watching those films. I don't 2:38:01.640 --> 2:38:06.440 watch those films. Gives me bad memories, dreams. But yeah, 2:38:06.480 --> 2:38:10.440 like I can't understand how we have this ability to 2:38:10.879 --> 2:38:15.000 we have fucking VR now, right, like surgeons can practice 2:38:15.040 --> 2:38:18.360 operations in VR. But like in a world where we 2:38:18.440 --> 2:38:22.640 can have so many experiences, experienced things that we would 2:38:22.680 --> 2:38:27.120 never experience otherwise, we have inflicted a genocide through starvation 2:38:27.280 --> 2:38:30.480 on the people of Palestine. Like in a world where 2:38:30.480 --> 2:38:33.320 we can see and know more about other people's lives 2:38:33.320 --> 2:38:36.480 than ever, we've done this thing. Like I don't want 2:38:36.480 --> 2:38:38.199 to harp on the fact that, like It'srael, it's built 2:38:38.200 --> 2:38:40.400 on the idea of never again, and here they are 2:38:40.440 --> 2:38:44.720 doing it again, right, But like it's just so sad 2:38:44.800 --> 2:38:47.039 that like we're in this world where we can know 2:38:47.160 --> 2:38:52.240 and share more things and yet it's resulted in somehow 2:38:52.560 --> 2:38:55.959 are still not seeing our common humanity. I mean more 2:38:55.959 --> 2:38:58.640 people have I guess. Also, Like one thing that has 2:38:58.640 --> 2:39:00.480 happened this year, in the last two year, is that 2:39:01.080 --> 2:39:04.120 like when I came here, I would never have believed 2:39:04.520 --> 2:39:08.120 that you would get thousands of American people out to 2:39:08.240 --> 2:39:12.600 call for the basic human rights of Palestinian people like 2:39:12.720 --> 2:39:14.440 it did. It wasn't a thing that American people were 2:39:14.440 --> 2:39:16.840 aware of. So like that is something there of the 2:39:16.879 --> 2:39:20.119 last two years, think we have seen solidarity, some of. 2:39:20.080 --> 2:39:21.720 That's yeah, there has been a shift. 2:39:22.000 --> 2:39:25.280 Yeah, some of that solidarity I think has been misguided. 2:39:25.840 --> 2:39:29.120 But I think some of the I guess anti Israel 2:39:29.160 --> 2:39:32.720 shift has come less from a concern for Palestinians and 2:39:32.760 --> 2:39:36.240 more so for the sort of you know, we don't 2:39:36.240 --> 2:39:38.879 want our tax cart dollars they spent, they want it's 2:39:38.840 --> 2:39:43.080 spent on us. Or it's more of an internally minded 2:39:43.200 --> 2:39:45.120 sort of America first ideology. 2:39:45.959 --> 2:39:48.640 Yep, and they're straight up anti Semitic bigotry as well. 2:39:49.000 --> 2:39:51.640 But there has been that solidarity shift as well. 2:39:52.440 --> 2:39:55.280 Yeah, Like there has been that, like a global solidarity 2:39:55.840 --> 2:40:00.959 and like even as a millennial, right, like from the 2:40:01.080 --> 2:40:04.080 age of thirteen right when I was a kid, when 2:40:04.800 --> 2:40:07.680 nine to eleven happened, and even I guess the First 2:40:07.680 --> 2:40:10.920 War in the Persian Gulf. The media project of most 2:40:10.920 --> 2:40:12.800 of the nations in which I've lived has been to 2:40:12.840 --> 2:40:18.199 demonize Muslim people, people specifically living in the Middle East, right, yeah. 2:40:18.600 --> 2:40:22.320 Yeah, And it's more of an a racialized tree than 2:40:22.400 --> 2:40:26.080 a particularly religious milia tree. I mean, it does take 2:40:26.160 --> 2:40:30.680 that religious courting, and there are religion specific elements to 2:40:30.720 --> 2:40:33.240 the bigatory, but it does tend to be more racialized 2:40:33.240 --> 2:40:35.560 that yeah, because I already know that some people will 2:40:35.560 --> 2:40:38.280 be like, oh, well, I just don't like Islam as 2:40:38.360 --> 2:40:41.880 because of its authoritarian and inclinations where the case. Maybe, 2:40:41.920 --> 2:40:46.320 but it's a bit more than just religious beast bigotry. 2:40:47.560 --> 2:40:50.280 Yeah, it's not just a philosophical disagreement, right, Like it 2:40:50.320 --> 2:40:53.360 took on, like you say, this racial character and so 2:40:53.560 --> 2:40:57.400 like to see people noting their common humanity, Like I 2:40:57.480 --> 2:40:59.000 was just talked to someone about this the other day. 2:40:59.080 --> 2:41:03.880 Be familiar with miss Rachel. Yeah, yeah, Like it is inconceivable. 2:41:03.920 --> 2:41:06.959 It would have been inconceivable when I was in high 2:41:07.000 --> 2:41:11.800 school that an American children's entertainer would be like, well, 2:41:11.800 --> 2:41:13.560 I guess you had the Dixie Chicks, But it's not 2:41:13.600 --> 2:41:18.040 the same, right, it would be like continually not to 2:41:18.080 --> 2:41:19.440 take away from what they did. I think they were 2:41:19.520 --> 2:41:22.039 very brave actually, but you know, to be able to 2:41:22.080 --> 2:41:24.520 stand up for the lives of young children in Palestine 2:41:25.160 --> 2:41:31.480 so consistently, Yeah, so vaciferously for so long like that, 2:41:31.480 --> 2:41:33.520 that's very hot. That gives me, you know, a great 2:41:33.560 --> 2:41:34.320 sense of hope. 2:41:34.600 --> 2:41:36.720 Yeah, not really. I think it's an indication of just 2:41:36.760 --> 2:41:39.120 how much there has been a shift, and of course 2:41:39.160 --> 2:41:43.480 she has been bullied and targeted relentlessly since, but yeah, 2:41:43.520 --> 2:41:46.800 you know, it does indicate that people are willing to 2:41:47.480 --> 2:41:49.760 face that kind of bullying and these that kind of 2:41:50.520 --> 2:41:55.840 attack that I suppose segment of empire for the sake 2:41:55.840 --> 2:41:56.720 of stand off. What's right. 2:41:57.360 --> 2:42:01.040 Yeah, yes, I guess I think it's so it's impressive, 2:42:01.160 --> 2:42:04.080 right that, like, yeah, people have bullied and attacked her, 2:42:04.160 --> 2:42:06.440 but like, also she has been so brave and so 2:42:06.520 --> 2:42:08.879 consistent and not just miss Rachel. To be clear, there 2:42:08.920 --> 2:42:11.360 are many many other people who've done this and has 2:42:11.440 --> 2:42:14.160 been able to continue to do that because so many 2:42:14.160 --> 2:42:16.600 people have been like, no, these are just children, Why 2:42:16.680 --> 2:42:18.840 the fuck you? Why are you arguing that it's wrong 2:42:18.879 --> 2:42:20.560 to say we shouldn't kill children. What the fuck is 2:42:20.600 --> 2:42:22.680 wrong with you? Yet a lot of people showed up 2:42:22.720 --> 2:42:26.280 against the war in Iraq too, But like, it's good 2:42:26.280 --> 2:42:30.080 to see that that media project has not succeeded, because 2:42:30.120 --> 2:42:31.920 it's been two decades in my life that it has 2:42:31.920 --> 2:42:32.880 been trying to succeed. 2:42:33.280 --> 2:42:36.080 Yeah, I think that we've been seeing so very familiar 2:42:36.160 --> 2:42:41.960 dynamics across the jubiscal crises that I've a sort of 2:42:42.040 --> 2:42:47.080 mentioned there. We have this external patronage of global powers 2:42:47.120 --> 2:42:51.240 and regional powers that seemed to be sustaining these fights 2:42:51.360 --> 2:42:54.240 that were in lives over years, because if they wouldn't 2:42:54.280 --> 2:42:58.200 get in that constant flow of money for weapons and 2:42:58.240 --> 2:43:02.720 weapons support and military support, these wars will not be 2:43:02.760 --> 2:43:05.800 able to last as long as they have, you know. 2:43:06.000 --> 2:43:10.200 But it's these outside actors in Sudan and in Palestine 2:43:10.240 --> 2:43:14.480 that are supporting the fight and supporting the barrage, supporting 2:43:14.520 --> 2:43:19.520 the suffering, and not supporting the aid necessary to support people. 2:43:20.240 --> 2:43:22.760 You know, there's been a very slow and insufficient piece 2:43:22.760 --> 2:43:27.720 of humanity response due to funding gaps, access constraints, and 2:43:27.760 --> 2:43:30.760 the politicization of aid. And there are people who have 2:43:30.879 --> 2:43:35.279 managed to act directly not waiting for any official channels. 2:43:35.320 --> 2:43:37.680 In the case of the flotilla. Something else that happened 2:43:37.720 --> 2:43:41.400 this year that I found particularly admirable, but it hasn't 2:43:41.440 --> 2:43:45.199 been enough so far. It hasn't broken through quite yet, 2:43:45.240 --> 2:43:48.720 and people are still without much of the necessary aid 2:43:49.440 --> 2:43:53.960 that will sustain even their survival. We also see that 2:43:54.360 --> 2:43:57.160 even as these was a ragion in these regions, in 2:43:57.240 --> 2:44:02.680 many cases the extraction is continuing, particularly in Congo and Sudan. Yeah, 2:44:03.400 --> 2:44:06.240 I think it's very critical that we can just speak 2:44:06.240 --> 2:44:08.800 out against these wars as we get into twenty twenty six, 2:44:09.320 --> 2:44:12.000 where we see them, we document what's happening, We keep 2:44:12.000 --> 2:44:15.880 a record offline of what's going on independently, because another 2:44:15.879 --> 2:44:18.840 thing I've noticed this year is how blatantly the news 2:44:18.879 --> 2:44:21.960 media is showing its colors, you know. And that's where 2:44:22.120 --> 2:44:25.320 independent media is meant to fill the gaps, even though 2:44:25.360 --> 2:44:28.160 it may not have as many resources as main industream media, 2:44:28.600 --> 2:44:31.600 you know, so things like this podcast is Herefore, it's 2:44:31.640 --> 2:44:34.680 something that I think when the listeners can take responsibility 2:44:35.320 --> 2:44:38.920 in being part of in gathering information and archiving information, 2:44:39.640 --> 2:44:43.840 in sharing sources and direct connects so that the information 2:44:43.920 --> 2:44:47.040 gets out there and so as we wrap up this 2:44:47.120 --> 2:44:51.320 retrospective for twenty twenty five, two things in particular standout 2:44:51.440 --> 2:44:56.320 to me. One is that our system is brittle as hell, 2:44:57.480 --> 2:45:02.680 and two that people are resilient as well, and taken together, 2:45:02.800 --> 2:45:05.080 I believe it's an indication that we are indeed in 2:45:05.120 --> 2:45:08.640 a world of transition, and it's still uncertain, and it's 2:45:08.720 --> 2:45:11.400 as to how it will turn out. The future hasn't 2:45:11.400 --> 2:45:14.560 been written yet. We don't know. We do have the 2:45:14.600 --> 2:45:17.400 ability to choose what we do next. So if you 2:45:17.480 --> 2:45:20.960 look towards a new year, think about something you want 2:45:21.000 --> 2:45:25.039 to build or strengthen, whether it be a skill, a relationship, 2:45:25.160 --> 2:45:28.520 a practice, a project of some kind that conserve you 2:45:28.680 --> 2:45:31.760 and those around you going forward. That's all I have 2:45:31.879 --> 2:45:37.280 for today. All power to all the people, Happy New Year, Peace. 2:45:51.240 --> 2:45:55.199 This is it could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly 2:45:55.240 --> 2:45:58.080 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 2:45:58.080 --> 2:46:00.600 and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today 2:46:00.600 --> 2:46:04.800 I'm joined by James Stout, Mia Wong and maybe Sophie Lichterman. 2:46:05.400 --> 2:46:10.000 Maybe yeah, let's send you first name. 2:46:10.320 --> 2:46:11.320 I'm always here. 2:46:11.440 --> 2:46:14.600 I just don't necessarily have anything to add, because you're 2:46:14.600 --> 2:46:17.280 all so good at your jobs. 2:46:16.760 --> 2:46:20.359 No, no, we love when Sophie has something to contribute 2:46:20.400 --> 2:46:23.800 to this show. So what should we talk about? 2:46:23.840 --> 2:46:24.120 First? 2:46:24.959 --> 2:46:27.840 Let's do some quick updates from last week. As we 2:46:27.840 --> 2:46:30.920 mentioned in the episode description, last week we recorded prior 2:46:31.000 --> 2:46:34.480 to an incident that happened in Portland where two people 2:46:34.959 --> 2:46:40.520 were shot by Border patrol or ice. Very unclear that 2:46:40.680 --> 2:46:43.760 there was not a lot of information given out and 2:46:44.600 --> 2:46:47.920 the way that the situation unfolded, the way that DHS 2:46:47.920 --> 2:46:50.520 said it that there was a targeted stop of two 2:46:50.600 --> 2:46:54.760 people and they resisted dress So of course what do 2:46:54.800 --> 2:46:58.520 they do? Just shoot into a car and those people 2:46:58.879 --> 2:47:02.320 drove away and then quickly called for help and then 2:47:02.520 --> 2:47:06.720 went to the hospital. We really don't know anything further 2:47:06.800 --> 2:47:13.280 than that. I watched many press conferences from Oregon and 2:47:13.600 --> 2:47:16.840 Portland officials, including the governor and the mayor, talking about 2:47:16.959 --> 2:47:23.160 the situation. Everybody's pretty horrified by it locally, but that's 2:47:23.560 --> 2:47:27.720 not the story we were getting from DHS. I can 2:47:27.879 --> 2:47:31.960 read the statement if you guys want, Okay, Yeah, since 2:47:32.040 --> 2:47:35.560 Robert's not here, Robert was at CS but was also 2:47:35.720 --> 2:47:38.879 following the story very closely and did some reporting on 2:47:39.000 --> 2:47:40.320 his blue sky if you want to. 2:47:40.400 --> 2:47:41.280 Go back and look at that. 2:47:41.520 --> 2:47:45.680 But the statement from DHS said at two nineteen pst. 2:47:45.840 --> 2:47:49.199 US Border Patrol agents were conducting a targeted vehicle stop 2:47:49.240 --> 2:47:53.039 in Portland. Organ the passengers of the vehicle and target 2:47:53.080 --> 2:47:57.160 is a Venezuelan illegal alien affiliated with the transnational gang 2:47:57.200 --> 2:48:00.560 trend de Agua prostitution ring and involved in a recent 2:48:00.600 --> 2:48:03.360 shooting in Portland. The vehicle drivers believed to be a 2:48:03.400 --> 2:48:06.480 member of the vicious Venezuelan gang trendy Agua. They love 2:48:06.560 --> 2:48:07.400 to just throw that out of there. 2:48:07.480 --> 2:48:07.640 Yeah. 2:48:07.720 --> 2:48:11.440 When agents identified themselves to the vehicle occupants, the driver 2:48:11.600 --> 2:48:14.160 weaponized his vehicle and attempted to run over the law 2:48:14.240 --> 2:48:17.440 enforcement agents. Fearing for his life and safety. An agent 2:48:17.520 --> 2:48:20.640 fire defensive shot. The driver drove off, with the passenger 2:48:20.760 --> 2:48:24.080 fleeing the scene. The situation is evolving and more information 2:48:24.160 --> 2:48:26.720 is forthcoming. That was on January eighth, at about five 2:48:26.760 --> 2:48:31.800 pm Pacific. And that's their take, that's their like go 2:48:31.879 --> 2:48:35.400 to move. The excuse for randomly shooting at a car 2:48:35.720 --> 2:48:38.879 is that they were weaponizing the vehicle towards the agent. 2:48:39.640 --> 2:48:42.720 We really don't know much further than that. Miya, do 2:48:42.720 --> 2:48:43.959 you have anything you want to add. 2:48:44.320 --> 2:48:47.280 Yeah, so I think we should make two things through one. 2:48:47.560 --> 2:48:49.760 Most of the people who were shot have survived, which 2:48:49.800 --> 2:48:50.200 is good. 2:48:50.640 --> 2:48:50.920 Yeah. 2:48:51.360 --> 2:48:55.440 Yes, it's also worth noting that So the day we 2:48:55.480 --> 2:48:59.199 are recording this, on the fourteenth, there was a report 2:48:59.320 --> 2:49:04.560 released by Del Cameron and Ryan Shapiro at Wired talking 2:49:04.800 --> 2:49:08.600 specifically about how they got a bunch of intelligence documents 2:49:08.640 --> 2:49:13.879 from the Trump administration about trend Agua and to briefly 2:49:13.879 --> 2:49:16.160 summarized sory coms, I'm just gonna quote the subtitle of 2:49:16.200 --> 2:49:18.200 it because it gives a good representation of what is 2:49:18.280 --> 2:49:19.680 in the actual intelligence documents. 2:49:19.680 --> 2:49:20.879 See, that's all we need. 2:49:21.920 --> 2:49:25.240 Yeah, hundreds of records are pained by Wired shows thin 2:49:25.360 --> 2:49:29.520 intelligence on the Venezuelan Gang of the United States, describing fragmented, 2:49:29.680 --> 2:49:33.320 low level crime rather than a coordinated terrorist threat. So 2:49:34.280 --> 2:49:37.960 they can barely even find existence of this group in 2:49:37.959 --> 2:49:42.280 the United States. These two people, I am ninety nine, 2:49:42.320 --> 2:49:45.000 I would would I would stake my life on the 2:49:45.240 --> 2:49:48.000 on none of the stuff in that report about them 2:49:48.080 --> 2:49:53.400 being in this Venezuelan criminal organization being true. Almost everything 2:49:53.640 --> 2:49:56.840 that has come out of Homeland Security, as we've talked 2:49:56.879 --> 2:50:00.240 about with every other previous shooting almost everything that out 2:50:00.240 --> 2:50:03.760 of Homeland Security is a lie. So yeah, we will 2:50:04.240 --> 2:50:07.360 probably in the coming weeks figure out what actually happens, 2:50:07.440 --> 2:50:12.080 but unfortunately, right now we're relying on a combination of 2:50:12.600 --> 2:50:15.840 Portland government officials who are somewhat more reliable and Department 2:50:15.879 --> 2:50:17.920 of full Land Security, which is utterly unreliable. 2:50:18.840 --> 2:50:19.040 Yeah. 2:50:19.640 --> 2:50:22.760 I do have one thing to note here as for 2:50:23.040 --> 2:50:26.560 what the local officials in Portland are saying. Portland Police 2:50:26.600 --> 2:50:30.280 Bureau Chief Bob Day started a January tenth press conference 2:50:30.400 --> 2:50:34.880 by saying, quote, recently I read the Declaration of Independence 2:50:35.000 --> 2:50:39.840 for the first time unquote, and then stated that the 2:50:39.920 --> 2:50:44.000 two victims of the shooting have quote some nexus to 2:50:44.280 --> 2:50:49.000 involvement with Trenda Agua, and then on January eleventh, Maltnama 2:50:49.080 --> 2:50:52.640 County District Attorney Nathan Vasquez was interviewed on CADU News 2:50:52.720 --> 2:50:55.800 and said that he believes Trenda Agua is active in Portland, 2:50:55.840 --> 2:50:57.680 but he could not confirm in his office has any 2:50:57.959 --> 2:50:59.840 criminal cases against the gang. 2:51:00.760 --> 2:51:03.280 The Department of Homeland Security has identified the people who 2:51:03.360 --> 2:51:06.600 were shot, saying they are affiliated with Trinda Ragua, the 2:51:06.680 --> 2:51:10.240 Venezuelan gang, and are connected to other crimes in Portland. 2:51:10.600 --> 2:51:13.320 Does your office have any cases against these individuals? 2:51:14.000 --> 2:51:15.600 You know, this is all These are all things that 2:51:15.640 --> 2:51:17.520 we're going to be looking at and going through very 2:51:17.600 --> 2:51:21.440 carefully as we evaluate the case. One to make sure 2:51:21.480 --> 2:51:23.440 that if there are other pending matters out there, that 2:51:23.440 --> 2:51:26.000 they're taken care of, but also just to make sure 2:51:26.040 --> 2:51:27.480 we get a full picture of what's going on in 2:51:27.520 --> 2:51:28.039 this situation. 2:51:28.600 --> 2:51:31.360 Do you have any knowledge of whether Trendera or Ragua 2:51:31.480 --> 2:51:33.600 is active in Portland and Moltmama County. 2:51:34.240 --> 2:51:36.959 It's certainly something that we have seen and we are 2:51:37.920 --> 2:51:40.040 we are working on with our local law enforcement. 2:51:40.200 --> 2:51:42.560 We have seen them in our area. 2:51:43.120 --> 2:51:45.800 They are one of kind of a host of different 2:51:46.280 --> 2:51:49.720 groups or individuals out there that are engaged in criminal activity, 2:51:49.760 --> 2:51:50.880 and it's something that we're working on. 2:51:52.120 --> 2:51:58.360 Just a lot of biased disinformation and misinformation. We don't 2:51:58.959 --> 2:52:02.680 actually really know what happened, but I am grateful that 2:52:02.800 --> 2:52:06.600 that those folks did not lose their lives unlike Renee Good. 2:52:07.000 --> 2:52:07.240 Yeah. 2:52:08.120 --> 2:52:11.400 Yeah, And I also briefly want to mention here about 2:52:11.440 --> 2:52:15.240 Renee Good. There's been an attempt by the Department of Justice. 2:52:15.400 --> 2:52:17.480 A bunch of people at the Department Justice have resigned 2:52:17.600 --> 2:52:20.000 rather than attempt to prosecute Renee Good's wife. 2:52:20.640 --> 2:52:24.320 Six high level prosecutors have resigned in the past week. 2:52:24.520 --> 2:52:27.520 And this has been a very very standard reaction from 2:52:28.200 --> 2:52:30.520 law enforcement when they don't kill someone or when there's 2:52:30.560 --> 2:52:33.200 someone else on the scene. A few months ago, I 2:52:33.840 --> 2:52:38.120 shot a woman in Chicago. She thankfully survived, but they 2:52:38.240 --> 2:52:41.760 also charged her afterwards. So this is a very very 2:52:41.800 --> 2:52:44.160 standard practice. And they are right now trying this on 2:52:44.360 --> 2:52:47.879 Renee Goods wife after she watched her fucking wife get 2:52:47.959 --> 2:52:49.480 killed in front of her. 2:52:49.920 --> 2:52:52.560 Yeah, so I know people have also been waiting for 2:52:52.640 --> 2:52:55.440 updates on It run. We have an episode that came out. 2:52:55.680 --> 2:52:58.640 It would have come out on Wednesday, two days before 2:52:58.800 --> 2:53:00.880 this comes out. You'd like to know more about what's 2:53:00.879 --> 2:53:03.920 happening in Iran. We had a really excellent talk with Gordayen, 2:53:04.080 --> 2:53:06.240 and I would suggest you go back and find that episode. 2:53:06.720 --> 2:53:08.800 And I wanted to update people on what is happening 2:53:09.120 --> 2:53:14.040 in Syria, I guess specifically northern Syria right now. So 2:53:14.160 --> 2:53:18.280 the two neighborhoods Shikmunk sud Nesa Fria, those are both 2:53:18.320 --> 2:53:23.000 neighborhoods in Aleppo right that there's sometimes characterized as Kurdish neighborhoods. 2:53:23.040 --> 2:53:26.279 But like you ZD people live there. There are various 2:53:26.360 --> 2:53:29.760 Christian people living there as well. Right, it's not one 2:53:29.840 --> 2:53:33.280 hundred percent Kurdish. I think sometimes there's a tendency among 2:53:33.320 --> 2:53:36.160 people who write about Syria to see things as ethnic modelists, 2:53:36.320 --> 2:53:39.080 and I think that is not the way to approach 2:53:39.200 --> 2:53:43.040 these things. But anyway, both of those neighborhoods have now 2:53:43.080 --> 2:53:48.039 been fully seized by the Syrian Transitional Government. Some SDF 2:53:48.120 --> 2:53:51.279 fighters were bust back to Kamishlo, which is the capital 2:53:51.360 --> 2:53:55.400 of the aa ne s somethime's going as Rosjava fighting 2:53:55.520 --> 2:53:59.520 is now moving closer to the Euphrates, right closer to 2:53:59.600 --> 2:54:03.320 the core of what people will call Roshjava. I think 2:54:03.400 --> 2:54:06.800 at a minimum the goal is probably to remove the 2:54:07.000 --> 2:54:10.640 SDF from any areas that are not majority Kurdish. So 2:54:10.800 --> 2:54:14.440 right now that they're fighting in Derhafa and they will 2:54:14.440 --> 2:54:17.600 begin fighting, or that they have already been drawn attacks 2:54:17.640 --> 2:54:20.680 in other areas as well. In a leopard Is Syrian observed. 2:54:20.760 --> 2:54:24.039 Joined Human Rights, which is a Britain based human rights organization, 2:54:24.480 --> 2:54:27.920 documented several war crimes and going to quote here, SOHR 2:54:28.120 --> 2:54:31.640 documented twenty three cases of extra judicial executions and desecration 2:54:31.760 --> 2:54:35.400 of bodies in shik Maksud and Alasafria neighborhoods in Aleppo 2:54:35.480 --> 2:54:38.000 City in the past few days. Here are further details. 2:54:38.480 --> 2:54:42.160 The bodies of fifteen members of the Internal Security Forces ASAISH, 2:54:42.680 --> 2:54:46.440 including bodies of four female members, were deliberately incinerated. A 2:54:46.520 --> 2:54:48.840 female member of the SASH forces was killed during the 2:54:48.879 --> 2:54:50.800 clashes and her body was thrown from the top of 2:54:50.840 --> 2:54:53.039 the building. The reason they've been able to document these 2:54:53.160 --> 2:54:55.920 is that they're widely broadcast on telegram. Right people are 2:54:56.000 --> 2:54:59.360 very proud of what our war crimes, the desecration of 2:54:59.480 --> 2:55:04.600 the remain. At the same time, the Islamic State carried 2:55:04.640 --> 2:55:07.960 out three simultaneous attacks on the twelfth of January, enduring 2:55:08.000 --> 2:55:13.640 several SDF personnel, and it seems that this whole debacle 2:55:13.800 --> 2:55:17.640 has put the peace process between the PKK. The PKK 2:55:17.840 --> 2:55:21.440 is a distinct entity from the SDF right, but nonetheless 2:55:22.200 --> 2:55:26.160 the PKK guess is seeing Kurdish people killed in Syria 2:55:26.480 --> 2:55:29.320 and Turkish support right. There have been some reports of 2:55:29.400 --> 2:55:34.080 Turkish drones being used or flying around there, so the 2:55:34.200 --> 2:55:37.400 KSEK if people aren't familiar, the KSEK is the organization 2:55:37.520 --> 2:55:40.680 that brings together the different political groups in kurdis Dan 2:55:40.800 --> 2:55:44.520 that broadly adhere to the political ideology or thought of 2:55:44.600 --> 2:55:48.720 abdulah Ojulan, but take different approaches to that. The KSEK 2:55:49.040 --> 2:55:51.720 released a statement saying, quote, the attacks on chikmuk Sud 2:55:51.760 --> 2:55:54.360 and a Sophia and the preparations for attacks on the 2:55:54.400 --> 2:55:56.959 east of the Euphrates also call into question the ceasefire 2:55:57.000 --> 2:56:01.480 between our movement and Turkey and the ongoing piece democratic society. 2:56:02.040 --> 2:56:04.480 That is not great, right. Yeah, you know, this is 2:56:04.520 --> 2:56:07.040 a place where people have been at war, killing and 2:56:07.120 --> 2:56:09.920 dying for more than a decade, and it's very sad 2:56:10.000 --> 2:56:13.240 to think of more killing and dying happening there. Garana, 2:56:13.360 --> 2:56:16.640 you wanted to talk a little bit about some domestic terrorism, 2:56:16.720 --> 2:56:20.120 I guess some actual domestic terrorism and us AN attack rate. 2:56:20.160 --> 2:56:20.880 Do you want to talk about that? 2:56:21.680 --> 2:56:21.880 Yes. 2:56:22.200 --> 2:56:27.599 On Saturday, January tenth, the Beth Israel Congregation synagogue in Mississippi, 2:56:27.720 --> 2:56:30.640 and historic synagogue, the oldest in the state that was 2:56:30.680 --> 2:56:34.240 once targeted by the KKK, was set on fire in 2:56:34.480 --> 2:56:38.840 the middle of the night, damaging the interior of the building. 2:56:39.480 --> 2:56:43.680 A nineteen year old college student named Stephen Spencer Pittman 2:56:43.920 --> 2:56:46.800 has been charged with federal and state arson charges, as 2:56:46.840 --> 2:56:51.039 well as a hate crime enhancement. On Instagram, Pittman described 2:56:51.080 --> 2:56:55.400 himself as a quote unquote follower of Christ and shared 2:56:55.440 --> 2:56:59.560 a meme of the anti Semitic happy Merchant hours before 2:56:59.600 --> 2:56:59.960 the attack. 2:57:00.720 --> 2:57:02.160 Jesus Christ Jesu. 2:57:03.120 --> 2:57:06.040 The happy merchant is an anti Smenic Jewish stereotype that 2:57:06.200 --> 2:57:10.480 is often used in memes originating from the four Chen 2:57:10.680 --> 2:57:14.400 era of whoa Jack memes. You've probably seen it before. 2:57:14.440 --> 2:57:17.480 It's a crude, anti Semitic rendering of a Jewish person 2:57:18.240 --> 2:57:23.520 with his hands clasped together. Pittman has confessed to starting 2:57:23.720 --> 2:57:26.360 a fire in the building, which he described as the 2:57:26.440 --> 2:57:30.519 quote unquote Synagogue of Satan. According to an FBI affidavit 2:57:30.920 --> 2:57:35.000 and reporting from the AP states that during his first hearing, 2:57:35.440 --> 2:57:38.879 when the judge read him his rights, Pittman said, quote 2:57:39.160 --> 2:57:40.840 Jesus Christ is Lord. 2:57:41.400 --> 2:57:41.720 Quote. 2:57:42.320 --> 2:57:45.440 According to the FBI affi, David Pittman texted his own 2:57:45.560 --> 2:57:48.879 father during the arson, sending a photo of the synagogue 2:57:48.920 --> 2:57:52.320 with the messages there's a furnace in the back, hoodie 2:57:52.560 --> 2:57:58.520 is on, and they have the best cameras unquote. Pittman's 2:57:58.600 --> 2:58:01.760 father attempted to can Vince's son to come home and 2:58:02.080 --> 2:58:06.400 later turned him into the authorities. Pittman suffered burns to 2:58:06.600 --> 2:58:10.080 himself during this attack. He's the only person injured as 2:58:10.120 --> 2:58:14.760 a result of this incident. Big flee. I'm glad he 2:58:14.840 --> 2:58:19.720 got hurt. Pittman's phone was found in the synagogue damage 2:58:19.760 --> 2:58:22.400 from the fire, though his location was able to be 2:58:22.480 --> 2:58:26.879 tracked via the Life three sixty GPS tracking app which 2:58:27.000 --> 2:58:30.440 shows a stop at a gas station where Pittman allegedly 2:58:30.520 --> 2:58:34.439 picked up gasoline before heading onto the synagogue. 2:58:35.080 --> 2:58:39.280 Great of what a fucking idiot. But yeah, I think 2:58:39.320 --> 2:58:41.480 this is the only synagogue in the state, right, like. 2:58:41.879 --> 2:58:44.520 To the oldest synagogue in the state. I doubt this 2:58:44.680 --> 2:58:46.960 is the only synagogue in Mississippi. 2:58:46.879 --> 2:58:47.640 The largest one. 2:58:47.720 --> 2:58:50.160 That's it. Yeah, yes, yeah, it's it's like the most 2:58:50.200 --> 2:58:50.879 famous one from. 2:58:50.760 --> 2:58:52.760 The Yeah yeah, And like you said, it was attacked 2:58:52.760 --> 2:58:55.160 by the Klan before it was didn't he attack exactly 2:58:55.200 --> 2:58:58.120 the same part of the synagogue that the Klan previously burned. 2:58:58.640 --> 2:58:59.920 I don't have that in my notes. 2:59:00.240 --> 2:59:03.960 That is, it seems like that's what he was same vibes. 2:59:04.520 --> 2:59:08.160 Now, he did say that he did a lot of 2:59:08.320 --> 2:59:11.760 research on the target and that he needed a home 2:59:11.879 --> 2:59:15.920 run in communications to his father and Pittman was a 2:59:16.240 --> 2:59:20.240 baseball player in the state. There's not much more to 2:59:20.360 --> 2:59:26.240 say about this, Like this is a weirdo Instagram Christian Zoomer, 2:59:26.560 --> 2:59:32.240 who also offered like a fitness service. It's unclear how 2:59:32.320 --> 2:59:34.800 real this is or if he had like, you know, customers, 2:59:35.320 --> 2:59:38.679 but he was offering faith based fitness transformations. 2:59:39.360 --> 2:59:39.400 Es. 2:59:39.840 --> 2:59:42.920 Yeah, that's the thing, Like you have a little bit 2:59:42.959 --> 2:59:45.280 of like the Christian looks max or vibe going on 2:59:45.440 --> 2:59:48.520 with him, as well as sharing a series of anti 2:59:48.600 --> 2:59:50.840 Smitic posts made on Instagram. 2:59:51.520 --> 2:59:55.440 Yeah did you see this Deborah lipstat tweet geah No, 2:59:55.800 --> 2:59:59.200 so Deborah lipsdat right, who was previously the she like 2:59:59.280 --> 3:00:03.600 the Envoil anti Semitism, posted a twenty three on January eleventh. 3:00:03.879 --> 3:00:05.760 This is a major tragedy, but it's more than that. 3:00:05.879 --> 3:00:08.599 It's an arson attack and another step in the globalization 3:00:08.680 --> 3:00:09.560 of the Intifada. 3:00:10.200 --> 3:00:12.000 That does not seem to be the case. Yeah, it 3:00:12.120 --> 3:00:12.600 doesn't know. 3:00:13.000 --> 3:00:16.800 No, but this is like pretty uh way off base 3:00:16.920 --> 3:00:20.119 in fact, right, But yeah, I think it's still rather 3:00:20.240 --> 3:00:20.720 telling that. 3:00:21.200 --> 3:00:25.160 This is this is not like a Hamas anti imperialist Zoomer, 3:00:25.280 --> 3:00:29.760 Red Triangle and biotype guy. This is a right wing 3:00:29.840 --> 3:00:36.400 Christian nationalist college athlete, Christian Zoomer who shares antisemitic memes 3:00:36.520 --> 3:00:39.640 on Instagram. This is a pretty standard, you know, pre 3:00:39.840 --> 3:00:44.760 twenty twenty two type of like synagogue attack. Yeah, in fact, 3:00:44.840 --> 3:00:47.240 the fire was started right in front of a Tree 3:00:47.320 --> 3:00:49.840 of Life memorial plaque in the synagogue. 3:00:50.240 --> 3:01:06.440 Jesus Christ God, of course it was yeah, and we 3:01:06.680 --> 3:01:07.760 are back. 3:01:09.240 --> 3:01:10.760 So the thing I thought I was going to be 3:01:10.840 --> 3:01:13.520 talking about this week was a Supreme Court ruling on 3:01:13.640 --> 3:01:17.360 Trump's tariffs. However, the Supreme Court, contrary to the expectations 3:01:17.400 --> 3:01:20.320 of basically everyone, didn't actually release a ruling on the 3:01:20.400 --> 3:01:21.200 tariff stuff today. 3:01:21.240 --> 3:01:24.040 We have no idea when they're going to release that. However, 3:01:24.959 --> 3:01:27.280 instead of that, we got one of. 3:01:27.360 --> 3:01:30.920 The most bizarre and extraordinary statements and videos I have 3:01:31.040 --> 3:01:33.960 ever seen from someone who was even remotely affiliated with 3:01:34.040 --> 3:01:38.879 the US government. So on Sunday, Thuderal Reserve chair Jerome 3:01:39.040 --> 3:01:42.240 Powell released I don't even have a good reference for 3:01:42.360 --> 3:01:44.200 what this is. The closest thing I can think of 3:01:44.360 --> 3:01:46.520 is it's a kidnapping video, but it's more like a 3:01:46.680 --> 3:01:50.720 help I'm about to be kidnapped video in which he says, quote, 3:01:51.200 --> 3:01:54.240 the Department of Justice serve the Thorough Reserve with grand 3:01:54.360 --> 3:01:58.080 jury subpoenas threatening a criminal indictment related to my testimony 3:01:58.160 --> 3:01:59.520 before the Senate Banking Committee. 3:01:59.560 --> 3:01:59.720 Last. 3:02:00.600 --> 3:02:05.280 So, this is nominally about cost overruns effectively in renovations 3:02:05.360 --> 3:02:08.080 of the Federal Reserve. If anyone has ever paid attention 3:02:08.160 --> 3:02:10.240 to any single US government project ever, you will know 3:02:10.320 --> 3:02:13.800 that there are cost overruns on by most projects. This 3:02:13.920 --> 3:02:17.640 is just how the government works, because you come in 3:02:17.760 --> 3:02:19.959 with your little bid that's below what the actual cause 3:02:20.040 --> 3:02:21.280 is going to be, and then it costs more than that. 3:02:22.320 --> 3:02:26.840 Now this investigation is being run directly into your own power. 3:02:27.440 --> 3:02:30.960 And by the way, this statement was published on the 3:02:31.000 --> 3:02:33.480 Federal Reserves. This is like an official statement from the 3:02:33.520 --> 3:02:34.520 Federal Reserve Board. 3:02:34.959 --> 3:02:35.160 Yeah. 3:02:35.680 --> 3:02:37.880 So, he also says later in the statement, quote, the 3:02:37.959 --> 3:02:40.880 threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal 3:02:40.959 --> 3:02:44.760 Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessments of 3:02:44.840 --> 3:02:47.760 what will serve the public, rather than following the preferences 3:02:47.840 --> 3:02:50.440 of the presidents. This is about whether the Fed will 3:02:50.480 --> 3:02:52.680 be able to continue to set interest rates based on 3:02:52.800 --> 3:02:57.200 evidence and economic conditions or whether instead monetary policy will 3:02:57.240 --> 3:03:02.839 be directed by political pressures or intimidation. This is extraordinary. 3:03:03.440 --> 3:03:08.520 They got sixteen other central bank leaders from around the world, 3:03:08.680 --> 3:03:12.760 and we're talking about Norway to Indonesia to submit a 3:03:12.959 --> 3:03:17.080 letter expressing where they use the words solidarity to express 3:03:17.080 --> 3:03:20.120 the support of Powell. I can't emphasize enough. Do you 3:03:20.160 --> 3:03:22.840 know how bad it is to get central bank leaders 3:03:22.959 --> 3:03:24.759 to say the word solidarity? 3:03:27.440 --> 3:03:27.600 Yeah? 3:03:28.440 --> 3:03:31.600 Now, this is following a Trump two pattern of using 3:03:31.640 --> 3:03:35.400 the DOJ to attack their political enemies. Today the fourteenth, 3:03:35.480 --> 3:03:38.320 as we're recording, this also saw the beginning of investigation 3:03:38.440 --> 3:03:42.440 into Senator Elisa Slotkin over her participation in a video 3:03:42.600 --> 3:03:46.040 a few months ago encouraging US troops to disobey illegal orders. 3:03:46.840 --> 3:03:49.640 Mark Kelly, who was also in that video, was also 3:03:49.720 --> 3:03:52.280 targeted with a Pentagon investigation over the video. 3:03:52.959 --> 3:03:54.240 So this has become very common. 3:03:54.320 --> 3:03:58.640 However, Jerome Powell is a Trump one appointee, so this 3:03:58.840 --> 3:04:02.120 is someone who is also and this is this is 3:04:02.200 --> 3:04:03.600 this is something that worth mentioning. 3:04:03.800 --> 3:04:07.280 Powell is very popular in conservative. 3:04:06.760 --> 3:04:11.760 Circles, largely outside of a very very immediate circle of 3:04:12.200 --> 3:04:14.200 people around Trump, who want their president to be able 3:04:14.200 --> 3:04:15.119 to control the interest rate. 3:04:15.920 --> 3:04:16.080 Now. 3:04:16.760 --> 3:04:19.400 I'm going to do a full episode about this, probably 3:04:19.520 --> 3:04:23.840 next week, but the independence of the central bank is 3:04:24.080 --> 3:04:27.120 one of the core pillars of the global reputation and 3:04:27.240 --> 3:04:31.039 stability of the US dollar. Now I'm not saying here 3:04:31.120 --> 3:04:34.360 that the central bank is good. I'm saying that this 3:04:34.560 --> 3:04:39.240 is how the entire world economic system operates, right. It 3:04:39.400 --> 3:04:43.080 is based on the central Bank operating as a series 3:04:43.160 --> 3:04:46.920 of quasi public but still technically non government entities that 3:04:47.080 --> 3:04:52.200 make independent decisions on interest rates. Now FED interest rates effectively. 3:04:52.360 --> 3:04:55.039 And I'm saying effectively here because I'm simplifying a very 3:04:55.120 --> 3:04:58.720 complicated set of economic interactions into one sentence, but they 3:04:58.800 --> 3:05:02.160 effectively set in for bank loans and the broader economy, 3:05:02.680 --> 3:05:05.039 which in turn has a massive impact on how fast 3:05:05.120 --> 3:05:08.240 or slow the economy grows. And the FED uses this 3:05:09.040 --> 3:05:12.320 as a tool to control inflation and unemployment through a 3:05:12.640 --> 3:05:17.280 basically a single macroeconomic policy lever. The FED does much 3:05:17.640 --> 3:05:19.360 much more stuff than this. I will get into this 3:05:19.440 --> 3:05:22.440 in the other episode. It has a series of unbelievably 3:05:22.480 --> 3:05:27.360 crucial functions. But what is happening here is the Trump 3:05:27.360 --> 3:05:31.880 administration attempting to directly seize control of the FED, and 3:05:32.080 --> 3:05:37.400 this is a nightmare. The actual mechanisms that work here 3:05:37.440 --> 3:05:40.640 in terms of the relationship between interest rates and the 3:05:40.680 --> 3:05:45.800 Fed's economic policy toolkit and inflation are not well understoody 3:05:45.879 --> 3:05:48.000 even by the Fed, which is something you can get 3:05:48.040 --> 3:05:50.959 if you go read the Federal Reserve documents. It's very complicated, 3:05:51.120 --> 3:05:56.000 it's all contested, but it is the Fed's job to 3:05:56.080 --> 3:05:58.200 be able to do this, and they will admit they're 3:05:58.240 --> 3:06:02.160 not incredible at its Trump administration is running this directly. 3:06:02.400 --> 3:06:04.840 The trumpdministration has absolutely no idea how any of this 3:06:04.879 --> 3:06:07.560 stuff works. Yeah, this is giving them the keys to 3:06:07.560 --> 3:06:09.440 the global economy and they are going to just start 3:06:09.440 --> 3:06:13.440 pushing buttons. This is a significant enough threat that several 3:06:13.520 --> 3:06:17.040 Republican senators and this is not just Morowski, these are 3:06:17.680 --> 3:06:21.959 just regular Republican senators have spoken out against this move 3:06:22.080 --> 3:06:24.960 and have expressed, you know, expressed that they think that 3:06:25.480 --> 3:06:28.240 drump Powell is innocent and that they will vote against 3:06:28.440 --> 3:06:32.040 any attempt to approve a Trump nominee for the head 3:06:32.040 --> 3:06:36.000 of Federal Reserve, which is also extraordinary. This is one 3:06:36.040 --> 3:06:38.120 of the largest breaks we've seen with Trump from the 3:06:38.160 --> 3:06:41.600 Republican Party so far, and the reason that there have 3:06:41.680 --> 3:06:44.160 been actual breaks from the Republican Party is that this 3:06:44.400 --> 3:06:48.120 is the rubicon for a lot of sectors of capital. 3:06:49.360 --> 3:06:55.080 Almost anything can be endured as long as the president 3:06:55.120 --> 3:06:57.840 does not have direct control over the money supply, which 3:06:57.920 --> 3:07:02.080 is what Trump controlling the Federal Reserve directs would be. Now, 3:07:03.360 --> 3:07:05.480 part of what's going on here, right is that this 3:07:05.600 --> 3:07:07.800 is an attempt to choose a new chair of the 3:07:07.879 --> 3:07:09.520 Federal Reserve Board by getting. 3:07:09.320 --> 3:07:10.280 Powell out of his job. 3:07:10.920 --> 3:07:16.040 However, so Powell's term expires in May, but that's Powell's 3:07:16.120 --> 3:07:18.560 term as the Chair of the Federal Reserve. He's still 3:07:19.000 --> 3:07:21.360 on the Board of Governors, and the Board of Governors 3:07:21.400 --> 3:07:23.640 also has to approve a new head of the Federal Reserve. 3:07:24.640 --> 3:07:27.280 So Trump needs to oust him from his position as 3:07:27.400 --> 3:07:29.440 the governor of the Federal Reserve Board, because if he 3:07:29.520 --> 3:07:31.200 doesn't do this, he doesn't have enough votes to get 3:07:31.240 --> 3:07:35.360 his appointments. The really dangerous thing here, on top of 3:07:35.440 --> 3:07:40.119 the abstract principle of you know, the president having direct 3:07:40.160 --> 3:07:44.800 control over the central banking system, the direct media threat 3:07:44.879 --> 3:07:47.120 is that his preferred candidates, who is currently one of 3:07:47.120 --> 3:07:50.119 the Federal Reserve Board governors or one of the Federal 3:07:50.120 --> 3:07:53.160 Reserve governors she's on the board is Stephan Merin, who 3:07:53.240 --> 3:07:55.760 is the guy who wants to charge other countries for 3:07:55.879 --> 3:07:56.880 holding US bonds. 3:07:58.160 --> 3:07:59.720 So yeah, I forget. 3:08:00.440 --> 3:08:04.120 This guy is a mediac, right Like, that's sorry, that 3:08:04.240 --> 3:08:06.440 is that is deeply unfair to mediacs, who are very 3:08:06.520 --> 3:08:11.200 reasonable people. This guy is I cannot emphasize enough if 3:08:11.240 --> 3:08:14.720 you put someone in charge of the Federal Reserve who 3:08:15.040 --> 3:08:17.720 literally did not understand what economics was, they would do 3:08:17.920 --> 3:08:22.960 less damage than putting Stiffevan Mirron in charge of this. 3:08:23.480 --> 3:08:27.880 This is a nightmare. This guy has no idea what 3:08:28.040 --> 3:08:30.760 he's doing at all. He is effectively a cipher for 3:08:30.840 --> 3:08:34.440 Trump administration. And this is one of the positions in 3:08:34.920 --> 3:08:37.920 the entire capitalist system where the chair of the Federal 3:08:37.959 --> 3:08:39.840 Reserve has to be someone who at least sort of 3:08:39.840 --> 3:08:43.440 knows what's going on. They can be evil, and they 3:08:43.760 --> 3:08:46.920 very often have been, but they have to sort of 3:08:47.080 --> 3:08:49.600 know what's happening. If this guy gets put in charge 3:08:49.600 --> 3:08:51.520 of the Federal Reserve, he is going to turn the 3:08:51.640 --> 3:08:55.720 US economy into a smoking crater. And that's what's at 3:08:55.800 --> 3:08:58.640 stake here with this attempt to prosecute Jerome Powell. 3:08:59.000 --> 3:09:07.560 Powell blink three times. If you need help. He is 3:09:07.680 --> 3:09:12.680 cabin s o s with his fingers. It is a 3:09:12.840 --> 3:09:14.880 very unnerving video that he posted. 3:09:15.080 --> 3:09:18.280 Yeah, it's just like one of those if I disappear. 3:09:18.640 --> 3:09:19.800 He looks really scared. 3:09:20.440 --> 3:09:23.920 Yeah, and I think this is going to be one 3:09:23.959 --> 3:09:30.160 of the major flashpoints here because even the tariffs don't 3:09:30.280 --> 3:09:34.880 have the potential impact for economic disruption that handing the 3:09:35.240 --> 3:09:39.160 make countries pay money the whole US bonds guy, the 3:09:39.280 --> 3:09:42.400 Federal Reserve Board chairman does so. 3:09:43.480 --> 3:09:45.960 Yeah, you will see a position from Republicans because it 3:09:46.160 --> 3:09:47.600 directly impacts their bag. 3:09:48.280 --> 3:09:51.560 Yeah, this is the most you can possibly fuck with 3:09:51.640 --> 3:09:53.680 the money by tending to take control of the entire 3:09:53.760 --> 3:09:56.480 money supply. There's a lot of fears here too, and 3:09:56.600 --> 3:09:58.640 it's sort of worth mentioning this. I've been seeing this 3:09:58.879 --> 3:10:01.720 passed around a lot. Is that there is another sort 3:10:01.760 --> 3:10:05.480 of recent example of a technically elected president assuming effectively 3:10:05.520 --> 3:10:09.040 dicatorial powers, and it's Air Towan, and Air Towan eventually 3:10:09.080 --> 3:10:11.720 took control of the central bank. And to get a 3:10:11.760 --> 3:10:14.480 sense of how that's going, the inflation rate in Turkey 3:10:14.560 --> 3:10:17.720 right now is currently thirty percent and everyone is celebrating 3:10:17.800 --> 3:10:19.640 because it's below thirty one percent, and this is the 3:10:19.680 --> 3:10:21.680 lowest the inflation rate has been in ages. It was 3:10:21.800 --> 3:10:24.840 like seventy percent when they first started this, and it 3:10:24.959 --> 3:10:27.040 was fifty percent last year, and they've gotten it down 3:10:27.120 --> 3:10:29.160 to a mere thirty percent inflation rate. 3:10:29.280 --> 3:10:29.960 Yeah, thinks Karen. 3:10:30.000 --> 3:10:33.920 Well, so this is the kind of thing that's on 3:10:34.120 --> 3:10:37.600 these people's minds because they all understand this. And this 3:10:37.840 --> 3:10:40.240 is not the Turkish Central Bank k central bank is 3:10:40.280 --> 3:10:43.040 obviously important in the world economy. This is the United 3:10:43.080 --> 3:10:45.920 States Central Bank. This is a question of the fundamental 3:10:46.000 --> 3:10:48.600 legitimacy of the dollar as the world reserve currency and 3:10:49.000 --> 3:10:52.720 of the premier currency in the world economy. So we 3:10:52.760 --> 3:10:55.240 will see what happens as this continues to unfold. But 3:10:55.400 --> 3:10:58.920 this is probably the premier economic fight of the entire 3:10:58.959 --> 3:11:02.240 Tip administration, and we will we will continue to update 3:11:02.280 --> 3:11:04.280 it as we learn more about how this is going 3:11:04.320 --> 3:11:04.480 to go. 3:11:05.760 --> 3:11:08.760 So I want to talk about something that came to 3:11:08.840 --> 3:11:10.760 my attention of the break here. 3:11:10.920 --> 3:11:14.320 I feel like we should utilize a banking segue in 3:11:14.440 --> 3:11:15.000 my opinion. 3:11:15.280 --> 3:11:21.600 Okay, fine, yeah, fine, fine, fine, talking of banks and 3:11:21.760 --> 3:11:24.560 of centralizing bank power under the state. 3:11:24.640 --> 3:11:24.960 There you go. 3:11:25.080 --> 3:11:27.880 Let's talk about an organization that once began as a 3:11:27.879 --> 3:11:31.600 member of the KPD. We're going to talk about Germany, 3:11:31.640 --> 3:11:34.879 and specifically I want to talk about an organization called 3:11:35.920 --> 3:11:39.640 Roster Hilfer red Aid. Don't really speak German, so if 3:11:39.640 --> 3:11:42.680 I've pronounced that wrong, I hope you'll understand. Why we're 3:11:42.720 --> 3:11:46.040 talking about Rotter Hilfer is that we a few months 3:11:46.080 --> 3:11:50.200 ago reported on the State Department adding various European organizations 3:11:50.240 --> 3:11:54.920 to its FTO list Foreign Terrorist Organization, right, and we 3:11:55.080 --> 3:11:57.280 wondered what this was about and what it would mean. 3:11:57.680 --> 3:11:59.120 We are now starting to see a little bit of 3:11:59.200 --> 3:12:03.680 what it would mean because Rotter Hilfer red Aid has 3:12:03.800 --> 3:12:07.480 had its bank account closed in Germany. It had accounts 3:12:07.520 --> 3:12:09.800 with two different banks, both of which had sort of 3:12:09.879 --> 3:12:14.520 broadly social or ecological missions, right. They were sort of 3:12:14.680 --> 3:12:17.640 progressive banks. I guess if such a thing can exist, 3:12:18.320 --> 3:12:22.200 because these banks are concerned with being sanctioned and effectively 3:12:22.280 --> 3:12:25.920 locked out of the United States swift system for doing 3:12:26.160 --> 3:12:30.520 business with a terrorist organization. Just to give some background 3:12:30.560 --> 3:12:33.080 on the org, I guess there's not a direct lineage 3:12:33.160 --> 3:12:35.880 from the KPD to this, but there was an organization 3:12:35.920 --> 3:12:39.080 of the same name from which it sees itself as descended, 3:12:39.200 --> 3:12:41.920 set up by the German Communist Party, which of course 3:12:42.040 --> 3:12:46.120 was dissolved by the Nazis. Today what they do is 3:12:46.200 --> 3:12:48.440 they do legal aid stuff. They appear to like send 3:12:48.520 --> 3:12:52.240 observers out to protests to kind of document state violence 3:12:52.959 --> 3:12:55.880 that they have done, some made for asylum seekers. It 3:12:55.959 --> 3:12:59.160 has grown massively, like it's doubled and they're doubled again 3:12:59.280 --> 3:13:01.920 in the last day in terms of membership right, and 3:13:02.000 --> 3:13:05.000 there have been attempts to ban it from the domestic 3:13:05.160 --> 3:13:07.920 right in Germany. I've linked to one of their after 3:13:08.120 --> 3:13:10.200 ones in the show notes of people want to read it. 3:13:10.920 --> 3:13:15.680 But it being undbanked is effectively going to be fatal 3:13:15.760 --> 3:13:18.320 for the organization, right like it can't provide legal aid, 3:13:18.360 --> 3:13:21.600 It can't provide legal support if it doesn't have a 3:13:21.640 --> 3:13:23.600 place to store its money. I mean, I guess it 3:13:23.640 --> 3:13:26.039 could just have a big box of cash, but it's 3:13:26.120 --> 3:13:27.680 going to make it very hard for the organization to 3:13:27.800 --> 3:13:30.560 take donations or to allocate that the money that it has. 3:13:31.280 --> 3:13:33.760 So this is something we might see more right certainly 3:13:33.840 --> 3:13:36.880 in Germany because Anti for aust is the organization that 3:13:37.040 --> 3:13:41.640 was sanctioned, but potentially also in other places. Talking of 3:13:41.800 --> 3:13:46.040 having no money, here are advertisements that can liberate you 3:13:46.320 --> 3:13:47.160 of some of yours. 3:13:58.520 --> 3:14:01.120 So for one of our last stories, I would like 3:14:01.280 --> 3:14:04.880 to discuss one of the bigger news stories from the 3:14:05.240 --> 3:14:07.520 end of the year, but something we did not have 3:14:07.640 --> 3:14:10.320 time to discuss in our last ed of twenty twenty five, 3:14:10.600 --> 3:14:14.880 and this is the Turtle Island Liberation Front. An episode 3:14:15.000 --> 3:14:18.520 next week will be going into even more detail, but 3:14:19.360 --> 3:14:21.960 I will go over some of the broad strokes of 3:14:22.440 --> 3:14:28.640 the Turtle Island Liberation Front alleged bombing plot. On December twelfth, 3:14:28.879 --> 3:14:31.680 the FBI arrested four people in southern California, who the 3:14:31.720 --> 3:14:34.720 government claims are members of a left wing activist group 3:14:34.879 --> 3:14:38.640 called the Turtle Island Liberation Front. The criminal complaint, signed 3:14:38.640 --> 3:14:40.840 on December thirteenth by an FBI agent working at the 3:14:40.959 --> 3:14:43.640 Joint Terrorism Task Force in La alleges that these four 3:14:43.680 --> 3:14:46.480 individuals conspired an a bombing plot planned for New Year's 3:14:46.520 --> 3:14:50.640 Eve twenty twenty five. According to the complaint, on November 3:14:50.720 --> 3:14:54.160 twenty sixth, one of the alleged TILF members I'm gonna 3:14:54.160 --> 3:14:56.040 say TILF instead of the full name from now on, 3:14:56.800 --> 3:15:01.720 named Audrey Irene Carrol, gave an eight payge handwritten document 3:15:01.959 --> 3:15:06.880 titled Operation Midnight Sun outlining the plan for the bombing 3:15:07.000 --> 3:15:10.760 to a confidential human source who works for the FBI 3:15:11.000 --> 3:15:14.840 as an informant. The criminal complaint says this of the 3:15:14.920 --> 3:15:18.240 confidential human source quote. The confidential human source is cooperating 3:15:18.240 --> 3:15:21.720 with law enforcement and is a validated and vetted source. 3:15:22.320 --> 3:15:25.199 The confidential human source has been a reliable source information 3:15:25.400 --> 3:15:30.560 since in or around August twenty twenty one. The confidential 3:15:30.640 --> 3:15:35.200 human sources cooperating for financial compensation. The confidential human source 3:15:35.240 --> 3:15:37.920 does not have any criminal history. The confidential human source 3:15:37.959 --> 3:15:42.080 provided past reliable reporting on other cases and has provided 3:15:42.160 --> 3:15:44.600 reliable reporting in this case. 3:15:45.040 --> 3:15:45.560 En quote. 3:15:46.240 --> 3:15:49.640 The plan was for teams of four on the ground 3:15:49.720 --> 3:15:54.760 participants to plant backpacks containing complex pipe bombs quote unquote 3:15:55.000 --> 3:15:59.280 or IEDs outside of buildings at five locations, targeting two 3:15:59.520 --> 3:16:04.199 US companies, and then simultaneously detonate the bombs at midnight 3:16:04.360 --> 3:16:07.000 on New Year's Eve twenty twenty five. There would be 3:16:07.080 --> 3:16:10.040 an off the ground member assisting the team remotely by 3:16:10.160 --> 3:16:13.279 listening to police scanners or be stationed in a vehicle 3:16:13.600 --> 3:16:17.199 in case a quote emergency getaway is needed on quote 3:16:17.240 --> 3:16:20.640 that's quoting from the plan, and one member of each 3:16:20.840 --> 3:16:24.160 on the ground team would create graffiti of a red 3:16:24.320 --> 3:16:27.920 triangle and one message of the team's choosing on the 3:16:28.000 --> 3:16:31.120 sidewalk closest to the building while the other three are 3:16:31.240 --> 3:16:36.120 placing the devices. This indictment is a really interesting look 3:16:36.280 --> 3:16:39.320 at the modern direct action left because it includes a 3:16:39.360 --> 3:16:42.360 whole bunch of little tidbits like block and d block. 3:16:42.879 --> 3:16:50.680 It includes the alleged co conspirators ground names like asanoch Ak, Nomad, 3:16:50.959 --> 3:16:54.600 and kickware, which are their ground names for this action. 3:16:55.840 --> 3:16:58.959 The criminal complaint states that after making the initial plan, 3:16:59.360 --> 3:17:03.960 Carol and another individual, Zachary Aaron Page, recruited additional co 3:17:04.160 --> 3:17:07.800 conspirators who participated in further planning meetups and helped procure 3:17:07.840 --> 3:17:12.400 bob making materials. On December twelfth, the four defendants traveled 3:17:12.440 --> 3:17:15.280 to a remote location in the Mohabi Desert with the 3:17:15.360 --> 3:17:19.440 alleged intent to build and test explosive devices. FBI observed 3:17:19.480 --> 3:17:24.240 from a surveillance plane and then arrested Carrol Paige, Dante Garfield, 3:17:24.600 --> 3:17:28.640 and Tina Lai before they completed assembling a functional explosive device. 3:17:29.080 --> 3:17:32.160 They have since been charged with conspiracy and possession of 3:17:32.240 --> 3:17:34.480 an unregistered destructive device. 3:17:35.360 --> 3:17:38.440 As I mentioned in my talking points on December twelfth, 3:17:38.920 --> 3:17:43.720 a group of individuals, again members of this anti government group, 3:17:43.959 --> 3:17:47.240 traveled out to the desert to test their explosive devices. 3:17:47.400 --> 3:17:49.560 They had precursor. 3:17:49.120 --> 3:17:52.680 Chemicals there and they were going to they were going 3:17:52.720 --> 3:17:56.720 to create these bombs in the desert. What they are 3:17:56.760 --> 3:17:59.520 starting to do is put their chemicals and whares and 3:17:59.520 --> 3:18:03.320 they'll compos out on the table on the table there. 3:18:03.959 --> 3:18:07.400 This footage that you're watching is from our surveillance plane. 3:18:07.720 --> 3:18:11.560 And then what happened after this is the Los Angeles 3:18:11.680 --> 3:18:15.320 FBI swat team, along with the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team 3:18:15.680 --> 3:18:19.000 moved in and arrested all four subjects without incident. 3:18:19.440 --> 3:18:22.560 Now, the Turtle Island Liberation Front appears to be a 3:18:22.600 --> 3:18:25.760 relatively new group, with a social media footprint that only 3:18:25.879 --> 3:18:28.840 was back to July twenty twenty five. The Instagram page 3:18:28.879 --> 3:18:33.440 for their LA chapter reads quote liberation through decolonialization and 3:18:33.640 --> 3:18:38.160 tribal sovereignty unquote. Their most recent post from December twelfth, 3:18:38.400 --> 3:18:41.720 the day of the arrests, is promoting a quote Palestine 3:18:41.840 --> 3:18:45.600 pop up market in Culver City. A post from November 3:18:45.640 --> 3:18:48.840 twenty eighth reads quote if they hurt you, they hurt 3:18:48.959 --> 3:18:53.520 me too. Our destinies are intertwined. Liberation for one must 3:18:53.640 --> 3:18:57.720 mean liberation for all. The empire must fall, and from 3:18:57.840 --> 3:19:00.560 within the belly of the beast, we must be the 3:19:00.640 --> 3:19:04.000 ones to dismantle it. Revolution is the only way stop 3:19:04.240 --> 3:19:08.800 quote peaceful protesting unquote, rise up, fight back. We are 3:19:08.879 --> 3:19:13.039 not outnumbered. They are organized and be ready unquote. 3:19:13.280 --> 3:19:13.480 Yeah. 3:19:14.120 --> 3:19:18.560 The FBI source met with two TILF members in late November, 3:19:18.720 --> 3:19:21.240 Carol and Page, and during this meeting, Carol gave the 3:19:21.680 --> 3:19:26.320 FBI source the handwritten bombing plot and retained three to 3:19:26.480 --> 3:19:29.960 four additional copies of this plan. And the plan identified 3:19:30.080 --> 3:19:34.359 five locations to target as marks with more blank slots 3:19:34.440 --> 3:19:38.519 on the plan which are captioned add more if enough comrades. 3:19:39.440 --> 3:19:42.760 According to the criminal complaint, these targets were quote property 3:19:42.840 --> 3:19:46.160 and facilities operated by two separate companies that are used 3:19:46.280 --> 3:19:51.200 or engaged in activities affecting interstate and foreign commerce unquote. 3:19:52.120 --> 3:19:56.359 These are Amazon distribution type facilities. They've not specifically confirmed 3:19:56.400 --> 3:19:58.720 they are Amazon facilities, but they are these sorts of 3:19:58.879 --> 3:20:01.840 like global shipping facility. One of the things I find 3:20:01.840 --> 3:20:05.280 really interesting about this criminal complaint is the way that 3:20:05.360 --> 3:20:10.480 this FBI agent describes direct action tactics and the Turtle 3:20:10.520 --> 3:20:14.600 Island Liberation Front members like security practices throughout the planning 3:20:14.760 --> 3:20:18.800 of this action. This is quoting from the criminal complaint. Quote. 3:20:19.080 --> 3:20:22.879 The plan described multiple operation security measures the co conspirator 3:20:22.879 --> 3:20:25.280 should take to conceal their identities, such as the use 3:20:25.320 --> 3:20:27.400 of a burner phone that would be disposed of after 3:20:27.400 --> 3:20:30.280 the bombings by quote submerging it in a concrete brick 3:20:30.360 --> 3:20:32.640 after destroying the sim and then disposing of the brick 3:20:32.680 --> 3:20:33.440 in a body of water. 3:20:33.680 --> 3:20:33.960 Quote. 3:20:34.360 --> 3:20:36.160 The target date of the operation, New Year's Eve was 3:20:36.160 --> 3:20:38.960 identified as an opportune time because quote fireworks will be 3:20:39.000 --> 3:20:40.640 going off at the time, so the explosions will be 3:20:40.680 --> 3:20:43.720 less likely to be noticed as immediately as any normal day. 3:20:43.959 --> 3:20:44.240 Quote. 3:20:45.080 --> 3:20:49.840 The plan emphasized that quote absolutely no mistakes can be made. 3:20:50.120 --> 3:20:50.400 Quote. 3:20:50.840 --> 3:20:53.520 The plans outline the use of quote unquote black block 3:20:53.840 --> 3:20:57.080 over top a layer of quote unquote casual gray block 3:20:57.720 --> 3:21:00.400 on top of normal street clothes, and noted to keep 3:21:00.480 --> 3:21:02.720 hair very tightly concealed, and to wear gloves for the 3:21:02.760 --> 3:21:07.520 purpose of avoidance of leaving behind DNA. The plan further 3:21:07.640 --> 3:21:09.920 instructed that precipins should leave their personal devices at home 3:21:09.959 --> 3:21:12.039 and make sure that devices were set up to stream 3:21:12.120 --> 3:21:14.960 a long movie during the time of the attacks as 3:21:15.000 --> 3:21:18.560 to craft an alibi or quote unquote plausible deniability by 3:21:18.640 --> 3:21:21.720 having it appear as though the actor was actively using 3:21:21.800 --> 3:21:25.760 their devices. The plan discussed pre operational surveillance of targets, 3:21:25.920 --> 3:21:29.840 identification of D block or D clothing locations, and not 3:21:30.040 --> 3:21:35.080 leaving quote anything other than IED's behind, as they could 3:21:35.120 --> 3:21:38.520 not quote risk any evidence tracing back to us unquote. 3:21:38.840 --> 3:21:41.119 The plan also noted the benefit of placing a small 3:21:41.200 --> 3:21:44.640 tebble in a shoe to alter natural gait to obfiscate 3:21:44.720 --> 3:21:48.480 their identification. Instructions on how to purchase materials to construct 3:21:48.480 --> 3:21:51.920 a pipe bomb suggested using cash only, purchasing only in 3:21:51.959 --> 3:21:55.160 small quantities toward suspicion, and splitting purchases amongst a team 3:21:55.360 --> 3:21:59.400 rather than individually unquote. This is the type of stuff 3:21:59.400 --> 3:22:02.520 I find really interesting, is this emphasis and all of 3:22:02.560 --> 3:22:05.800 these you know, op sec like operational security measures, all 3:22:05.959 --> 3:22:09.840 while working with an FBI informant from the very start 3:22:09.879 --> 3:22:12.920 of the operation and then recruiting another one during the 3:22:12.959 --> 3:22:16.440 planning stages. During a meeting on December seventh, three Turtle 3:22:16.480 --> 3:22:19.640 Island Liberation Front members at least met both with the 3:22:19.680 --> 3:22:23.840 confidential human source as well as an undercover FBI employee 3:22:24.520 --> 3:22:28.080 while trying to recruit more members to join this operation, 3:22:28.640 --> 3:22:31.920 both of whom accompanied the Turtle Island Liberation Front members 3:22:31.959 --> 3:22:34.199 as they traveled to the Mohave Desert on December twelfth 3:22:34.440 --> 3:22:38.440 to allegedly build and test out explosive devices for the 3:22:38.560 --> 3:22:41.920 direct action. There's a lot more information in the indictment, 3:22:42.000 --> 3:22:43.960 as well as some news that has happened since then, 3:22:44.080 --> 3:22:47.080 like an arrest in Louisiana also tied to Turtle Island 3:22:47.120 --> 3:22:51.840 Liberation Front, but we will discuss those in a future episode. 3:22:52.560 --> 3:22:55.480 As of now, three defendants in this case have pled 3:22:55.560 --> 3:22:58.480 not guilty and the fourth is set to be arraigned 3:22:58.600 --> 3:22:59.840 on January twenty. 3:23:00.560 --> 3:23:02.480 Are you planning on doing that next week? 3:23:02.520 --> 3:23:02.720 Here? 3:23:03.280 --> 3:23:05.480 Yes, there will be an episode next week going into 3:23:05.480 --> 3:23:09.520 more details about this group, their politics, as well as 3:23:09.560 --> 3:23:14.840 the FBI undercover and informant and their level of involvement 3:23:15.280 --> 3:23:18.800 in this action, which has spurred a lot of discourse 3:23:18.840 --> 3:23:21.359 online about this being a quoe unquote like sting operation, 3:23:21.800 --> 3:23:23.440 about this being a quote unquote syop. 3:23:24.240 --> 3:23:27.199 Yeah, I guess I'll just say very briefly, other the FBI, 3:23:27.320 --> 3:23:29.160 it's not their first time, and it's not their last 3:23:29.200 --> 3:23:31.400 time probably doing something like this, right, Like, you can 3:23:31.480 --> 3:23:34.560 look at many other cases and see FBI sort of 3:23:34.640 --> 3:23:36.920 CI is doing this kind of thing. So I think 3:23:37.680 --> 3:23:40.240 that context is important here. I just want to finish 3:23:40.320 --> 3:23:44.040 up with a migration update. First of all, DHS fractured 3:23:44.080 --> 3:23:47.959 the skull of a protester and blinded him by firing 3:23:48.040 --> 3:23:50.760 a less and lethal munition into his face at close range. 3:23:50.800 --> 3:23:53.119 It's Santa Anna this week. I've linked to an article 3:23:53.160 --> 3:23:55.640 for people who like to read more of that. Secondly, 3:23:55.920 --> 3:23:59.200 Judge Boseberg, who is the judge over seeing the case 3:23:59.200 --> 3:24:01.640 about the Alien Enemy Act, ordered the government to provide 3:24:01.680 --> 3:24:05.400 relief to Venezuelan and sent to SECOT Marco Rubio provided 3:24:05.440 --> 3:24:09.320 a statement responding that doing so would quote materially damage 3:24:09.400 --> 3:24:13.160 US foreign policy interests. Essentially, he's saying the state can't 3:24:13.200 --> 3:24:15.680 comply with the order to provide redress for wrongdoing by 3:24:15.760 --> 3:24:18.400 returning them, and it can't even give them due process 3:24:18.520 --> 3:24:21.920 right because it has since kidnapped the president of Venezuela. 3:24:22.640 --> 3:24:26.640 In related news, senators including Schmidt and Cruz have called 3:24:26.760 --> 3:24:31.800 for Boseberg's impeachment. Cruz makes these allegations. They're pretty minor, 3:24:32.000 --> 3:24:35.320 and crucially and very unusually. Both of them have been 3:24:35.400 --> 3:24:38.480 repudiated by the Administrative Office of the United States Courts, 3:24:39.000 --> 3:24:41.480 which doesn't normally do this kind of thing, right, But 3:24:41.600 --> 3:24:45.240 in both cases they've written letters kind of clarifying why 3:24:45.320 --> 3:24:49.080 Boseberg's conduct is totally normal. Both the Cruz claims related 3:24:49.080 --> 3:24:52.080 to decisions Boseburg made with which he disagrees. One pertains 3:24:52.200 --> 3:24:54.560 to a non disclosure order that he gave so that 3:24:54.680 --> 3:24:57.960 Republican senators would not be notified of subpoenas of their 3:24:58.040 --> 3:25:02.400 phone records in the fake elector investigation that was called 3:25:02.440 --> 3:25:05.520 the Arctic Frost investigation at the time that looked at 3:25:05.520 --> 3:25:08.800 attempts to overturn the twenty twenty United States election. They're 3:25:08.840 --> 3:25:11.800 also trying to impeach Judge Boardman for a separate decision 3:25:11.840 --> 3:25:13.800 in which they feel her sentence for a person who 3:25:13.800 --> 3:25:16.920 played guilty to attending to murder Justice Covenar was too light. 3:25:17.800 --> 3:25:20.160 And then just today, which is Wednesday of this week 3:25:20.200 --> 3:25:23.160 as we're recording, the State Department announced on x dot com, 3:25:23.240 --> 3:25:27.120 the Everything website, that it is pausing visa processing for 3:25:27.240 --> 3:25:30.760 seventy five countries. Quote whose migrants take welfare from the 3:25:30.800 --> 3:25:34.400 American people at unacceptable rates. The freeze will remain active 3:25:34.480 --> 3:25:36.440 until the US can ensure that new immigrants will not 3:25:36.560 --> 3:25:41.080 extract wealth from the American people. It's not clear what 3:25:41.440 --> 3:25:43.879 they are talking about. They talking about immigrant non immigrant 3:25:43.920 --> 3:25:46.400 visas both of the above. Are they talking about people 3:25:46.400 --> 3:25:48.960 who have violated the public charge rule or they just 3:25:49.080 --> 3:25:52.680 feel that any access of any benefit of state support 3:25:53.200 --> 3:25:57.119 is quote unquote extracting wealth from the American people. If 3:25:57.200 --> 3:25:59.320 you do not know what the public charge rule is, 3:25:59.520 --> 3:26:02.480 luckily to you, I made a podcast about it in 3:26:02.640 --> 3:26:06.600 November of twenty twenty four, so you can scroll all 3:26:06.720 --> 3:26:08.560 the way back more than a year and find that. 3:26:08.640 --> 3:26:10.600 I'll try and find it for you and include a 3:26:10.680 --> 3:26:11.560 link in the show notes. 3:26:12.040 --> 3:26:12.879 I think what's. 3:26:12.760 --> 3:26:17.360 Crucial here is that this will reduce dramatically the rate 3:26:17.440 --> 3:26:21.520 of which migrants access government services right, which are often 3:26:21.760 --> 3:26:24.640 very beneficial, especially when it comes to things like child nutrition, 3:26:24.879 --> 3:26:29.000 child welfare services right. Finally, the State Department also posted 3:26:29.040 --> 3:26:30.920 on x dot com, the Everything website, that it has 3:26:31.080 --> 3:26:34.720 revoked one hundred thousand visas, including eight thousand student visas, 3:26:34.800 --> 3:26:38.080 in the last year. We have no way of verifying 3:26:38.320 --> 3:26:41.800 that if you would like to email us, you could 3:26:41.840 --> 3:26:45.040 do so. Just email cool Zone Tips at proton dot me. 3:26:45.400 --> 3:26:46.760 If you want it to be encrypted, you should use 3:26:46.760 --> 3:26:47.920 a proton mail address as well. 3:26:48.400 --> 3:26:49.280 We reported the news. 3:26:50.400 --> 3:26:51.320 We reported the news. 3:26:56.920 --> 3:26:59.920 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:27:00.160 --> 3:27:02.000 from now until the heat death of the Universe. 3:27:02.800 --> 3:27:05.280 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:27:05.480 --> 3:27:08.520 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:27:08.600 --> 3:27:12.160 coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:27:12.280 --> 3:27:15.800 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 3:27:15.879 --> 3:27:18.160 now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly 3:27:18.240 --> 3:27:20.480 in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.