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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode.

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Speaker 1: So every episode of the week that just happened is

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Speaker 1: here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package

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Speaker 1: for you to listen to in a long stretch if

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Speaker 1: you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every

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Speaker 1: day this week, there's going to be nothing new here

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Speaker 1: for you, but you can make your own decisions. What's Pippin'

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Speaker 1: my bops? It could happen here? A podcast that is

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Speaker 1: sometimes competently introduced, but not on the days that I'm recording.

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Speaker 1: We're at CEES, the Consumer Electronics Show, seeing what the

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Speaker 1: tech industry has in mind for all of us. Right,

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Speaker 1: This is a show where the industry talks to itself

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Speaker 1: and its investors and clients about what the future is

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Speaker 1: going to be. And so Garrison Davis and I are

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Speaker 1: going to sit down with you and tell, based on

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Speaker 1: our explorations and investigations this week, what the future of

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Speaker 1: artificial intelligence means for all of us and for the world. Garrison, Hi,

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Speaker 1: how you doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm tired?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you look tired.

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Speaker 2: It's been a long week. It's been a long week

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Speaker 2: convention walking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we've worked very hard.

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Speaker 2: I've talked to too many robots.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've talked to a lot of chat bots.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's a bit of a stretch, is that

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Speaker 2: we've talked with them.

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Speaker 1: I've talked to add a lot of chat bots.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes they respond and sometimes they don't.

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Speaker 1: I guess one of the things that's kind of shocked

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Speaker 1: me is it because, like, despite being very critical about

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Speaker 1: AI in the industry, I have actually a pretty good

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Speaker 1: idea of what these things are capable of. And I

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Speaker 1: know that chat GBT and Jim and I and the

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Speaker 1: other like, they're capable of doing some things that look

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Speaker 1: very impressive. They are capable of conversations. You know that

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Speaker 1: it can be fairly in depth, and that can cover

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Speaker 1: a wide variety of topics. And so one of the

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Speaker 1: things that has surprised me is that as I have

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Speaker 1: gone up and tried to communicate with every various chatbot

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Speaker 1: enabled AI enabled product, about seventy percent of the time

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Speaker 1: it's not actually capable of responding to me in a

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Speaker 1: way that makes any sense. Like the majority of those

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Speaker 1: products just don't function. Sorry, was that literally your AI

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Speaker 1: and your phone yelling at us.

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Speaker 2: Yes, case in point, I was trying to pull up

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Speaker 2: one of the one of the AI robots that we

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Speaker 2: saw today, and I guess this is something that we

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Speaker 2: talked about on Better Offline a bit. And the main

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Speaker 2: thing this this year is the complete, the complete like

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Speaker 2: victory of of like chat GPT across not just not

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Speaker 2: just like.

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Speaker 1: It's like the cultural victory within the tech industry.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, and it's moved into like the physical world

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Speaker 2: through like their API license saying yeah, so many of

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Speaker 2: the quote unquote products this year is building a physical

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Speaker 2: thing around chat GPT.

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Speaker 1: We have a necklace that has chat GPT and you

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Speaker 1: can talk to it. We have a pin that chat

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Speaker 1: GPT is in and you can talk to it and

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Speaker 1: have it do things like transcribe an interview.

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Speaker 2: Earbuds there's there's earbuds, little tiny robot Dogslassy. Everything has

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Speaker 2: has chat GBT inside it. And that's the main thing

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Speaker 2: that makes it like unique or special compared to you know,

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Speaker 2: the types of products we've seen we've seen before.

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Speaker 1: And I would say again when I say that, like

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Speaker 1: seventy percent of the chatbot enabled products that I tried

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Speaker 1: to interact with could not converse with me or could

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Speaker 1: not do so in a functional way. It's not because

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Speaker 1: the chatbots aren't able to talk to you, because they

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Speaker 1: are anyone who's not like you can. It's that all

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Speaker 1: of the chatbots require an active Internet connection because the

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Speaker 1: vast majority of these products do not have anything on device,

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Speaker 1: and when you're in a crowded convention floor, the Internet

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Speaker 1: is bad and so they just don't work. And it

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Speaker 1: kind of it's one of those I'm sure most of

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Speaker 1: these products would work better in the real world, but

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Speaker 1: also the fact that they're all completely hobbled by their

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Speaker 1: access to data is kind of one of the things.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the seams that you can see here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the LLLM rappers, so LM rappers and robotics are

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Speaker 2: the big things this year. Often these things are between you.

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Speaker 1: Mean by an LLLLM rapper garrison.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is this is the thing that we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: It it's say, it's that this physical product that's built

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Speaker 2: around something like chat GPT or Gemini or Claude or

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Speaker 2: a number of like the Chinese made ones, right, So

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Speaker 2: a lot of Chinese companies here. So these physical products,

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Speaker 2: whether those are you know, headphones, earbuds, or in many

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Speaker 2: cases little tiny robots whose main main features that you

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Speaker 2: can talk to can talk to it, and what you're

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Speaker 2: actually talking to is like a filtered version of chat GPT.

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Speaker 2: And there's a lot of these products for kids that

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Speaker 2: we've seen, like robots for kids, because there's a lot

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Speaker 2: a lot of robotics this year as well. That these

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Speaker 2: these are the two things that after years and years

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Speaker 2: of them trying to find a new thing for each cees,

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Speaker 2: they've like settled on not not actually having anything robotics,

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Speaker 2: not having anything new because like we've we've seen robotics

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Speaker 2: before at other years, and this is the year that

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Speaker 2: they're combining their physical robotics which aren't new, but combining

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Speaker 2: them with chat GPT and presenting it as a new product.

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Speaker 1: Look at now you can intelligence the robot and no,

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Speaker 1: can't do more tasks than it used to, Like we're

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Speaker 1: still doing really good if it can slowly and not

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Speaker 1: very competently fold laundry. Oh right, like LG's Kloyd Cloyd,

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Speaker 1: which is a robot designed to be in your home

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Speaker 1: and do chores for you and visibly does not do

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Speaker 1: them well. We watched it now where they're presumably it's

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Speaker 1: presumably working better than it normally does because it's a demo.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: I went to the first Cloyd Cloyd demo and they

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Speaker 2: had like three three different setups for the different stories

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Speaker 2: for like different use cases for Cloyd, once with ones

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Speaker 2: with a family, ones with like a single guy, and

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Speaker 2: ones with like a like a middle aged woman. And

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Speaker 2: with the family, the robots able to find keys that

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Speaker 2: are lost. Notably, what that means is that Cloyd is

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Speaker 2: moving keys around the house, which might actually contribute to

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Speaker 2: the problem of somewhere else. The robot could put a

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Speaker 2: tray of croissants in an oven and the robot knows it,

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Speaker 2: and the robot knows exactly how you want your croissants done.

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Speaker 2: You don't even have to tell the robot. It already knows,

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Speaker 2: of course. And that's something that was stressed the power

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Speaker 2: of AIL for and over again is that it will

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Speaker 2: it will start to like know what you want?

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Speaker 4: Is it?

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Speaker 2: So you want need to tell you have a memory?

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Speaker 1: So many of these products with the big selling points

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Speaker 1: like it's got a memory and it has they can't

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Speaker 1: they can't stop themselves. And I think some of this

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Speaker 1: was like the actual companies and the way that they're

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Speaker 1: structuring their ad campaigns. But a lot of this was

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Speaker 1: just most of the companies here hire pr people who

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Speaker 1: don't regularly work for the company and don't know much

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Speaker 1: about the products, and they're just there to demo stuff,

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Speaker 1: and some of it is those people just defaulting too.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: They're talking about how this thing like like remembers and

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Speaker 1: knows you, So I'll talk about how it like it

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Speaker 1: has a personality, It has memories, it has experienced, it

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Speaker 1: has core memories, you know, it has preferences, and like

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Speaker 1: a personality, it wants things. I talked to a couple

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Speaker 1: of different people at booths who like that was the

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Speaker 1: thing they were emphasizing, is that like, this is an

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Speaker 1: AI that like feels and gets to know you and

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Speaker 1: has a relationship with you. And it's very number one

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Speaker 1: not what they would want publicly because that's crazy and

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Speaker 1: none of the products actually work that way, but the

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Speaker 1: attempt to convince people that, like, what we have done

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Speaker 1: is create a robot that lives in your home and

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Speaker 1: does chores and it can think and feel. And anytime

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Speaker 1: you say, like, well, is there you just saying you

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Speaker 1: built a slave? Like are you saying, well, there's thinking

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Speaker 1: sentient robots that you have lived in your house and

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Speaker 1: do your laundry. Isn't that a slave like And it's

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Speaker 1: not actually because the robot doesn't say not actually, but

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Speaker 1: what they were saying was true, it would be a problem, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh, if you get it, introduce yourself however you want introduced.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I'm Ben Ben Rosporter. I am an academic, I'm

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Speaker 5: a sociologist at Kearney.

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Speaker 2: And you have accompanied us through the wonderful world of

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Speaker 2: Las Vegas and the cees this year. I always like

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Speaker 2: bringing people to witness the beautiful world.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I've been brought to this place very far from god,

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Speaker 5: Las ve Guess and the Tech Convention Center. There is

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Speaker 5: this moment where we were walking through and it was

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Speaker 5: the the the amy Bot for kids.

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Speaker 2: Which me and Robert saw last year, that the little

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Speaker 2: like oval owl looking robot.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and they had this She's got to be

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Speaker 5: an actress and she was doing like a little skit

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Speaker 5: with the amy Bot where it was like it was

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Speaker 5: like the Amy About's birthday or something, and she was

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Speaker 5: like very clearly having this this very produced. It reminded

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Speaker 5: me exactly of how like cheap Tella Novella's like actors

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Speaker 5: talk where she was just like, wow, Amy, you've really

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Speaker 5: gotten to know me over the years. And it was

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Speaker 5: bizarre in that one the selling point of the robot

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Speaker 5: was I think they said, turning data into empathy. Yes,

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Speaker 5: it's able to turn data into empathy, which God knows

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Speaker 5: what that means. But also that like, so clearly the

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Speaker 5: robot turns data into empathy, but also we cannot show

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Speaker 5: you the robot doing anything concretely, so we will have

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Speaker 5: a person like it was just this very one side

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Speaker 5: like skit where this person was doing this really overly

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Speaker 5: emotional like back and forth as a robot, where the

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Speaker 5: robot would just respond with like the bare minimum like phrases,

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Speaker 5: and so like what they're selling is is questionable if

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Speaker 5: anyone wants it, and all speculative, it's all none of

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Speaker 5: it can actually be presented. It's all like the potential

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Speaker 5: to do this, and then and then even the way

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Speaker 5: that they're actually showing that is mostly just cheap tricks.

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Speaker 5: There's another booth where they had the sex robots, and

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Speaker 5: I was just I it was shocking because the stand

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Speaker 5: like you're at this convention, you've presumably you know, gone

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Speaker 5: through a lot to get here and you're the image

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Speaker 5: you're putting forward of your robot that you know you're

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Speaker 5: selling as the sex or whatt It's like this cheap

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Speaker 5: AI image, not even one of the good ones, like

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Speaker 5: that they're like clear artifacts and very weird lines and things,

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Speaker 5: and that you could google an anime jpeg and get

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Speaker 5: a better image for this. So just even the smoke

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Speaker 5: and mirrors of it was cheap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that Love Ants is the sex Robot booth,

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Speaker 2: And yeah, they had two products. One was like just

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Speaker 2: like you know, silicon like realistic human skin sex robot,

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Speaker 2: which is similar to like you know, those horrifying sex dolls,

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Speaker 2: except now we have an LM inside. It's another one

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Speaker 2: of those LM rappers, except it's wrapped around of redheaded women.

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Speaker 1: Garrison. I find that very offensive. It's actually some people

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Speaker 1: are just they're not capable of talking to women or

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Speaker 1: other human beings of any kind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people with ADHD.

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Speaker 1: It's actually a disability where people can't know other people

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Speaker 1: and can only have sexual gratification through a creepy robot.

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Speaker 2: I apologize for my spect for my on air ableism. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but no again, this is the year of LM rappers,

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Speaker 2: and now they're putting it, putting it in a sexpod,

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Speaker 2: which is more unnerving between than a regular sex doll

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Speaker 2: because a regular sex doll, you kind of know it's

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Speaker 2: an object. Like it's it's not trying to be much

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Speaker 2: more than an object. It can't, you can't. You could

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Speaker 2: you put in positions, but it's it's static. Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: because this thing tries to kind of engage with you.

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Speaker 2: It activates my Uncanny Valley response way more because it's

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Speaker 2: like it's kind of trying to pretend to be a person,

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Speaker 2: and like I could not look at the thing for

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Speaker 2: very long, so I just like started like I just

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Speaker 2: felt bad. Yeah, and some of that's probably my latent Protestantism,

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Speaker 2: but I just feel I just felt bad. But the

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Speaker 2: other product they had like around the corner was this

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Speaker 2: was this like you know anime style like like Avatar,

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Speaker 2: which was which is on like a screen that you

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Speaker 2: can talk to and it's synced up to like a

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Speaker 2: jack off robot, right, so you can you can engage

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Speaker 2: with this. You can engage with this like this like

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Speaker 2: blonde blonde hair, blue eyed anime woman as it's as

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Speaker 2: it connects to like a little a little like jackof Machine,

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Speaker 2: and that was there. That was the other product which

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Speaker 2: did not work because there was no Wi Fi in

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Speaker 2: the Venetian Yeah, so we could we could not see it,

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Speaker 2: but the jackoff machine was still going strong.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you could say, I guess that, like, well,

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Speaker 1: obviously there's there's fundamental issues with like having Wi Fi

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Speaker 1: be decent. When you've got seventy thousand people like all

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Speaker 1: cramming themselves into a room. Of course, that's going to

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Speaker 1: cause problems. That the chatbots and the devices using them

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Speaker 1: are actually capable of more they should. They're more impressive

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Speaker 1: than you giving them credit for just because the WiFi

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Speaker 1: didn't work. But also if all your build is a

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Speaker 1: shell that without the Internet and access to someone else's chatbot,

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Speaker 1: it's useless, It doesn't do anything.

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Speaker 2: This is the big people, I haven't really made a product.

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Speaker 2: All these products are are going to brick as soon

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Speaker 2: as soon as as soon as chat GPT raises its

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Speaker 2: API costs, they're going to do one of two things.

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Speaker 2: They're either going to stop working or they're going to

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Speaker 2: move their chatbot provider to a different one that's going

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Speaker 2: to behave differently. And then it's fundamentally a different.

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Speaker 1: And that's why periodically I would run into someone where

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Speaker 1: it's like everything that we do is on device and everything,

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Speaker 1: even the ones that were still because almost you almost

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Speaker 1: have to say that whatever you're doing is AI and

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Speaker 1: stuff like. There was a company that I came across

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Speaker 1: because of their name because I just saw the name

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Speaker 1: trans Ai and I was like, well, I gotta go

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Speaker 1: see what that is. I did see that, and it's

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Speaker 1: simply I believe they're a Korean company, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: just a company that makes like a translator, right, and

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Speaker 1: they make it specifically. It's like the size of a

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Speaker 1: smaller smartphone. It looks kind of like a smartphone and

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Speaker 1: you set it down and it will on device. It

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Speaker 1: does not touch the cloud at all for any reason.

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Speaker 1: It can translate, so if you want to have a

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Speaker 1: conversation with someone in a foreign language, it can like

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Speaker 1: like live translate for you both. And also it will

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Speaker 1: transcribe whatever conversations you're happening. And they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is for people who want to transcribe notes when

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Speaker 1: they're at college. It's for people who are doing interviews,

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Speaker 1: journalists and stuff. So and it was a really good

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Speaker 1: it seemed to be a good product. I've not gotten

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Speaker 1: to test it outside of the show floor I saw.

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Speaker 2: I saw a few of these.

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Speaker 5: One of the big differences I saw between like the

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Speaker 5: few there were like two or three or four booths

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Speaker 5: that we saw where the product I was like, I

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Speaker 5: had a positive.

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Speaker 6: I was like I walked away with some mildly positive.

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Speaker 5: Was that almost everything else talk about like the sort

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Speaker 5: of insatiability of capital is that it has to sell.

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Speaker 5: The sex doll was a perfect example of this in

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Speaker 5: that you know, if you make a sex doll and

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Speaker 5: you put the chat GPT inside of it and then

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Speaker 5: you sell it as this this is a sex doll.

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Speaker 5: It's an object you fought, but now you can like

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Speaker 5: you could have sexy conversation with Its still an object,

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Speaker 5: but like you know, that's fun for some people.

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Speaker 1: That's a thing that people didn't have and it is new.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's a phenomena you could clearly show off.

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Speaker 5: It's like, oh you can, you know now the sex

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Speaker 5: doll can like say your name and stuff. But almost

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Speaker 5: all of the booths that we're selling some kind of

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Speaker 5: a product. It was like, we have to sell the

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Speaker 5: opportunity to like transcend, Like the your mortal shell and

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Speaker 5: become a part of the cosmos itself. Like the sex

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Speaker 5: Doll was literally sitting in this corner talking to no

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Speaker 5: one and saying stuff like I'm about emotional intelligence and

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Speaker 5: building a connection, getting to know you and reaching into

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Speaker 5: your soul. And it's like, it clearly cannot do this.

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Speaker 5: And the few products that were good were the ones

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Speaker 5: where the people showing it were just able to like

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Speaker 5: just put that aside and just say, here's what the

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Speaker 5: product does, right, here's what it can do concrete.

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Speaker 1: And that that has become my baseline and first question,

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Speaker 1: which is like, have you done anything with your product?

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Speaker 1: And if all that you've done is we invented a

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Speaker 1: new device that didn't previously have a chatbot that it

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Speaker 1: connects to through data that someone else built, you didn't

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Speaker 1: do anything that's not a product, that's not real, So

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Speaker 1: kind of my first my filter was like, is there

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Speaker 1: anything here beyond another way to interact with a completely

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Speaker 1: different product that you didn't make.

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Speaker 2: To go back to like the AI note taking devices,

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Speaker 2: which I saw a few where where's a linch and

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Speaker 2: it will take notes through you. I saw like a

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Speaker 2: lot of these like marketed to like a college student.

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Speaker 1: And it's the thing that it is a thing that

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Speaker 1: machine learning, because I hate that it gets lomped in

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Speaker 1: with AI. But machine learning has gotten a lot better.

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Speaker 2: They know, they're really good. It's it's good at note taking.

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Speaker 2: And here's the thing, and that's alliable. And there's different

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Speaker 2: devices that you can get it on. Like I saw

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Speaker 2: like like a note taking pin that's a pin that

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Speaker 2: just automatically takes notes for you. That was you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of like kind of kind of fly. But the

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Speaker 2: thing is you can do this exact same thing on

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Speaker 2: your phone with the chet GPTPP. It's the exact same thing. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you don't need it in a pen, just turn your

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Speaker 2: phone on and it'll auto do the notes for you.

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Speaker 2: The actual product part is useless. The whole idea of

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Speaker 2: the smartphone is that you have everything you need already

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Speaker 2: on it.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I did respect again companies like trans Ai,

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Speaker 1: where it's like, no, this is actually on device and

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Speaker 1: this is a thing.

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Speaker 2: This is that's better.

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Speaker 1: YEA utility that my phone doesn't have, which is that

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Speaker 1: no matter where I am, even if I'm not connected

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Speaker 1: to the internet, I can translate and I can transcribe

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Speaker 1: using this device that's real utility, and TRANSA is not

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Speaker 1: the only company. A couple of companies had products like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we saw this emotion tracking pendant which is oh

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Speaker 2: my god, on device, which which listens to everyone.

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Speaker 1: So you said motion, not emotion, no emotion, oh god.

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Speaker 2: But it listens. It listens to everything you're saying. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't up put anything to cloud, but it in the

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Speaker 2: AA is on device, so it listens everything. It is

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Speaker 2: like emotional scent analysis. It also monitors your breath and

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Speaker 2: your heartbeat because the necklace like rests like on your chest.

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Speaker 2: And then it like taught and then it can like

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Speaker 2: analyze like around like six or seven. That's a mystic

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Speaker 2: seven different emotions. And like it was like fine, I

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Speaker 2: don't I would never need this thing to tell me

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Speaker 2: how I'm feeling. I know how to feel, but like

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Speaker 2: it might be fun for some people to like track

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Speaker 2: how they're feeling or be like, oh I was more stressed.

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Speaker 2: I was more stressed this week than like last week.

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Speaker 2: And like still and there's.

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Speaker 1: There's even there's at least a degree of baseline optimism

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Speaker 1: that you have for the product when it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is a device where you're trying to track people's emotions,

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Speaker 1: and your immediate first thing you decided as a company

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Speaker 1: was this, can't go on a cloud. That would be

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Speaker 1: a responcible.

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Speaker 2: This is why that was the first thing I asked, right, right,

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Speaker 2: And that is.

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Speaker 1: I guess the most important fundamental difference between companies and

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Speaker 1: people here, and between the companies that are embracing to

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Speaker 1: some extent AI is the ones who whose default was like, well,

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Speaker 1: but we're doing something that involves emotions or that involved

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Speaker 1: like interviews or conversations that people might not want on

384
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Speaker 1: like we shouldn't have that on the cloud, versus the

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Speaker 1: people who are like, why wouldn't you put literally everything

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Speaker 1: on the cloud. Why don't you want your health and

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Speaker 1: medical data on the cloud. Why don't we want your

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Speaker 1: financial data on the cloud? Right, Like that is kind

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Speaker 1: of like the most fundamental difference that you see between

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Speaker 1: people here.

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Speaker 5: Part and parcel of the insatiable like just drive for

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Speaker 5: endless value. And probably the comparisons between this convention and

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Speaker 5: its location, Las Vegas are really overlaiden at this point,

394
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Speaker 5: but I mean there is something about, like, you know,

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Speaker 5: the appeal of gambling is the promise of the speculative

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Speaker 5: promise of endless value and how all of these technologies

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Speaker 5: are selling themselves off of endless value. And for the

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Speaker 5: producer side, that means like this, this device has endless

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Speaker 5: function potentially, you know we say endless functions.

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Speaker 2: Especially with these like AI devices.

401
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Speaker 7: Yeah.

402
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, But from the consumer side, it's from a well,

403
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 5: if you just give yourself over to you know, to

404
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 5: the god of capital, if you if you just bleed

405
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Speaker 5: into the machine and connect yourself to the cloud and

406
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 5: give over like everything, and it really is everything. I mean,

407
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,919
Speaker 5: there's like AI towels that are like analyzing your sweat.

408
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 5: If you give over everything, there is this vague promise

409
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Speaker 5: of transcendence and that like you will escape the like

410
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Speaker 5: the misery of the world that this place is just

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Speaker 5: both completely blind to and then also without ever saying it,

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Speaker 5: like also responding to it entirely.

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Speaker 1: First off, obviously you're coming at this from more of

414
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Speaker 1: a left wing perspective, so you probably don't understand that

415
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,880
Speaker 1: gambling always works and you're definitely going to win. So

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Speaker 1: first off, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, no Vegas really is the anarcho capitalist paradise.

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Speaker 1: It sure is, But no, like what you're saying is

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Speaker 1: they want you to give everything over. There is absolutely

420
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Speaker 1: there's not outside of again the odd booth where you

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Speaker 1: find sane people, which is almost how I think about

422
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Speaker 1: it them in my head, where it's like yeah, where

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Speaker 1: you're putting front and forward. This stays on the device.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to be online. We are not exposing

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Speaker 1: your data.

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Speaker 2: It's like seeing a lighthouse right like in like a

427
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 2: horrible like rainstorm and you're like sailing got his ship

428
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Speaker 2: and you can't see anything, and everyone's you'll see a

429
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Speaker 2: booth with like a real person. God, it's like talking

430
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Speaker 2: about it was solving a real plumbing, like oh finally, Yeah.

431
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Speaker 5: It's a spectrum between talking to the ais, talking to

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Speaker 5: the real few people and then the other people who

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Speaker 5: are kind of in between the two.

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Speaker 1: And it was I went from seeing this app where

435
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Speaker 1: the whole purpose of this this company that makes like

436
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: agentic ai solutions, who I'm scrolling to find there the

437
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: company name right now, all of it is they're making

438
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: agents that you can put in like point of sale things,

439
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: or you can put in like cars as a chat.

440
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 1: But like one thing they said is yeah, we can

441
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: put this in a car and we can have the

442
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 1: you know, you can navigate using voice the way you

443
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: would normally like with a bunch of other apps. But

444
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 1: if you navigate with voice using our app, it will

445
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 1: only send you to restaurants or businesses that we have

446
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,959
Speaker 1: a deal with that are giving us a cut and

447
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: so and you too the car company gets a cut two.

448
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 1: And that was the innovation is that we can not

449
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: give people like tell people where things are. We can

450
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: tell people where things are that hey, us and you

451
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: get a cut up.

452
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 2: The company can like make a partnership with like Coca Cola. Right,

453
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 2: so then when you we were.

454
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: Literally talking to Coca Cola reps when I was there,

455
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 1: it's showing them that like, yeah, we have a like look,

456
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: we've replaced the human beings that take your orders at

457
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 1: Burger King, and the chatbot can alter on the fly

458
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 1: of the menu. If you have to get a smooth

459
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 1: a lot of vanilla coat and you want to sell

460
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: as many large as possible, it can tell people that's

461
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 1: the only option. WHOA And like like the fact that

462
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: they were just like bald faced about it, because when

463
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: I showed up, they were they were demoing how this uh,

464
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: this like Burger King menu with AI worked, and they

465
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 1: were like there was a full menu that you could

466
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 1: see that was like a like an updated screen menu,

467
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 1: but there was a secondary menu where they're like pretending

468
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: to be a guy who drew up to Burger King.

469
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: And the way that they started was like, yeah, what

470
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: burgers are good? What do you think I'd like? And

471
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: I was like, who No one.

472
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,199
Speaker 2: Drives up, No one could drive through window and asks

473
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 2: what's good?

474
00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that's not how they And again there's a

475
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: menu in front of you. You look at the menu

476
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 1: and like, that's how everyone buys food. So at first

477
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: I was like, is this just a company that doesn't

478
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,719
Speaker 1: know how life works? Who are like trying to pretend

479
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: this is like what people want where they go through? Yeah,

480
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 1: you know, well what's good today in McDonald's. You know,

481
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 1: do you have any specials? Which was crazy, But then

482
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: I realized because they were talking to this small group

483
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: of people, and I realized after a second, oh, because

484
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: I looked at their badges. Everyone has badges that all

485
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: of the people worked for Coca Cola, and so they

486
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: were talking about how, yes, if Burger King wants to

487
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: move you know, a specific kind of whopper, then we

488
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: can put that front and center when people ask what's

489
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 1: good and we can push it and said for coke,

490
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: if you guys want to move vanilla coke, we can have.

491
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: Whenever people order anything, we can have it. Say do

492
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: you want to add a vanilla coke? A large vanilla cokes?

493
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: Just like yeah.

494
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: And so what I realized is that this company whose

495
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: name is this is SoundHound.

496
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 2: AI sound Hound Yeah, yeah, great, pretty pretty good name.

497
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: Their motto was faster and more accurate, higher revenue. I

498
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: came to realize, and this is this is not entirely

499
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,959
Speaker 1: a separation from other years because they are always selling

500
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 1: to companies like this, but there was absolutely they were

501
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: the only thing that they were talking about actual end users,

502
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: as was a thing that you can pull extra money

503
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: out of by tricking them, by pushing extra ads to them.

504
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: And that's who they were actually selling to, is these

505
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: companies that they were like. The other thing they demoed

506
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: was you can make an agent on the fly and

507
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: you can include the capabilities, and they showed us how

508
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: to select it and then built an AI an agent

509
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: to live in your car. And the demo they did

510
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: was like, hey, my car is making this sound. What

511
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 1: do you think it is? They didn't play the sound

512
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: for the AI by the way they described it, and

513
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: the AA said that sounds like it could be da

514
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: da da da. It'll cost about seven hundred dollars to fix.

515
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: Great book me an appointment with the dealership. So, first off,

516
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: that's not how people work. I've had car everyone has

517
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: car issues. A regular person there's a problem with your car.

518
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: You either have a mechanic that's not the dealership that

519
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: you go to because they didn't rip you off in

520
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: the past, and you're like, well, I trust them not

521
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: to bock me too bad, or you go to a

522
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: couple because most people don't just drop seven hundred dollars

523
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: in a repair and not think about it. But the

524
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: person that this engineer is pretending to be for the

525
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,479
Speaker 1: purpose of this AI demo said, great book me a

526
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: repair at the dealership, and the AI was like, okay,

527
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: I've called them and I've booked you an appointment, and

528
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: by the way, would you like to schedule the test

529
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: drive for this specific kind of car. Oh, my wife

530
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 1: loves that car. Book us And that was the whole

531
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: thing is he was like, don't be impressed that we

532
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: can theoretically book you an appointment. Be impressed that we

533
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: can have the machine upsell you on trying to buy

534
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: a new car when you come in to fix your

535
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: old car that broke because you bought a bad car.

536
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: And there was no shame. They were so proud of themselves,

537
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: for this machine can repeatedly upsell you things. And that

538
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 1: was the only utility. It was not this allows you

539
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: to more easily navigate town. This allows you to more

540
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: easily cut out problems in your life. It was. This

541
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: machine can upsell you every minute of your day, everything

542
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: you add to do, everything you try to have it do,

543
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 1: and we get a cut of that. If we send

544
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: it to a restaurant and you buy food there, we

545
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: get a cut of that. And so does whatever company

546
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: you know put the thing in your car. If you

547
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: buy a new car, we get a cut of that.

548
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: That was the product and that we have gone from

549
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: here machines that do things. And even back in the

550
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: glorias of smartphones, at least everyone was showing like, look,

551
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: we have a new phone that's thinner than a phone

552
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: has ever been.

553
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like the camera is like you know, four

554
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: K now or something whatever.

555
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: The focus is always and now people who buy them

556
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: can do this with it. Right.

557
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 5: I mean, I would guess that so much of the

558
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 5: impetus for creating this stuff and developing it is all

559
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 5: for producer goods, and then the more revenue is honest,

560
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 5: and that like, that's what the and all the consumer

561
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 5: goods are mostly just getting you know, cast off is

562
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 5: like now we have all I mean literally, that's what

563
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 5: the LM wrappers are. It's just like, oh, we have

564
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 5: this thing, let's throw a plastic robot on it and

565
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 5: try and sell it. But what drives its development is

566
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 5: squeezing just little bits, squeezing labor out of the pores

567
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 5: of the production process, which it just gets you a

568
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 5: little bit more capital to keep this engine going a

569
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 5: little bit further.

570
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: And it's so because the way it'll work is I

571
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: saw that thing where it's literally all you've invented is

572
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: a way to try to con people out of more

573
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: of their money. I hope you're proud of yourselves, because

574
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: I think redacted is what you should do to yourself.

575
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: And I went from that to the booth of a

576
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: company called Gintex, who had never heard of before, but

577
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: they make different automotive products, and an engineer there showed

578
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: me a thing that he had been the lead on

579
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: inventing which was a sun visor. So like you know,

580
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: when you're driving and there's a glare, you put down

581
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: the advisor, and the visor is just like basically a

582
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: piece of fabric and it blocks a chunk of your view,

583
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: but it at least blocks the sun. And this was

584
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: an intelligent visor that was clear and so you could

585
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: see through it, but it also blocked UV rays and

586
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: you could adjust the level of opacity if you needed

587
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: it to be more or less, but you could still

588
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: see through the mirror and it still blocked the glare.

589
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, that's really neat. And then

590
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: he pressed a button and it turned into a mirror.

591
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 1: Suddenly that functioned. It looked great. I saw it. I

592
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: know it works, and I got like an an, honest wow,

593
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: I didn't know that was a thing that could happen.

594
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: And that's a that's a real product, and I can

595
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: imagine using it. That's like a problem where yeah, if

596
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: you want to block glare, you're losing a degree of

597
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: visibility and now you're not You've actually done something right.

598
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you could put Gemini into a toaster and

599
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: call it a day.

600
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: What if your toaster could talk to you about Proust.

601
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: I guess see, I mean this is actually now that's

602
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: an idea. If we're going to close this this more

603
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: AI focused episode, I kind of want to circle back

604
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: to Cloyd and like, why and why Chloyd Bloyd again exists.

605
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: Just take a second, if you're listening to this at

606
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: home on the drive, if you've got family around, look

607
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: at each other, look another person in the eye, and

608
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: say the word LG has a new home assistance robot

609
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: named Cloyd. Cloyd roll it around in your tongue, you know,

610
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: just think about it for a second.

611
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 2: Okay, why Cloyd exists? Like why why is LG who's

612
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: previously had some really impressive booths over the years.

613
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: And they had cool TVs.

614
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: They had TVs where the wallpaper TV was impressive.

615
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: Every time I go to an LG's booth every year,

616
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, that's a better look on TV.

617
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: Really TV. Yeah, it's great, But why why? And then

618
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: the wallpeer TV is Okay, we there was wellpaper TV

619
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: last year. It was it was slightly worse. This one's

620
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: a little bit better. But why does Cloyd the big

621
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 2: thing at the LG booth this year? Loyd right, because

622
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: none of the technology that Cloyd is doing is new.

623
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: Remember last year at Showstoppers, me and you we saw

624
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: that really janky robot.

625
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: You don't have to be more specific, but you said.

626
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: Taking a robot that moves up in down.

627
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the pusher and shover robots.

628
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: Yes, right, And Cloyd is like kind of that. It's

629
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: like the actual physical robotic parts of Cloyd aren't new.

630
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: And the sort of the sort of AI that's running.

631
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: Clod and Cloyd as if someone needed to make Wally

632
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: that was legally distinct enough to stop Disney from suing them,

633
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: and tall and taller. That's how Chloyd looks.

634
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: So why is Cloyd there?

635
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: Why is Cloyd there? I'm always asking myself this.

636
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: Is This goes into like what this what like Cees

637
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: is like doing this year, and how it reflects this

638
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: current state of the tech industry. Is that these lms

639
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: like TRAGVT are not actually better than they were last year. No,

640
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: they are. They are the same. So how do we

641
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: make things look look cool?

642
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: Just whatever improvements they are is not enough to notice

643
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: for an average person.

644
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: Very minimal. Yeah, So instead of actually having anything new

645
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: or any kind of sizeable improvement to display. They're combining

646
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: too old and some of their products are kind of archaic,

647
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,479
Speaker 2: combining two older products and trying to pass it off

648
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: as a new thing. And that's these these these like

649
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: older older like robotic systems right that you're usually kind

650
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: of humanoid. Maybe they have hands, Maybe the hands can

651
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: grab things. Can the hands unscrew up a milk carton?

652
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 8: To no?

653
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: Can can the robot grab milk out of the fridge?

654
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 5: Yes, so long as you want milk from a very

655
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 5: specific carton and croissants and only croissants, you, guys.

656
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: As long as the milk has a QR code that

657
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: the robot can recognize to know that it's milk. And

658
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: also when it's emptier than a certain level, it actually

659
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: will crush the milk thing like it has to be

660
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: a certain level a full otherwise doesn't.

661
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: But neither of these things are new. And the fact

662
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: that ALG doesn't have anything else to display at their booth,

663
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: the fact that they had to stoop so low is

664
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: to regurgitate this old kind of cheap robotics and slap

665
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: an LM in there and then call it a day,

666
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: so that they have very little to actually show for us,

667
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: and you see this walking through like the central hall set,

668
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: the Samsung booth is into there, the Nikon booth is

669
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: into there, the Sony booth is mostly a car. Like

670
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: there's a lot of these big companies are really absent

671
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 2: from actual products. The Panasonic has a really big booth,

672
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 2: but it's mostly about like servers, it's mostly about how

673
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: they're how they're improving, how they're improving data farming. There's

674
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: no stuff, and a lot of the stuff that does exist.

675
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: You even have to separate further from stuff that exists

676
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: and actually might be useful to stuff that exists and

677
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: might be useful because it solves a problem that the

678
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: thing that it is already created. Like, for example, a

679
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: bunch of I came to several different companies that had

680
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: a car AI assistance whose job was to yell at

681
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: you if you fell asleep or got distracted, and they

682
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: were all built into these giant dashboard things that were

683
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: the whole dashboard is a screen, and it's like, yeah,

684
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: I can see why you need a robot to yell

685
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: people get distracted because we have data.

686
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: Because they're putting subway surfers on your fucking car dash.

687
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: We have ample data that shows that when you have

688
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 1: a giant screen in a car and people use that screen,

689
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: they are actually worse drivers than when they're just drawn

690
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: on a normal car. And soh yes, you have made

691
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: the car. You can show me how this whole dashboard

692
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: you can change it in a second. Look at all

693
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: these different modes you have. You can smartly change your

694
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: dashboard be whatever you want, and it'll yell at you

695
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: if you get distracted. And it's like, well, but the

696
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: only reason you're getting distracted is because your entire car

697
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: is a computer screen, which it shouldn't be, and we

698
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: know it shouldn't be.

699
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: They're either trying to solve problems that they created or

700
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: inventing solutions to things that aren't really problems. And like

701
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: with and this is this specifically with Cloyd, and they

702
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 2: kept the guy who is like doing the demo kept

703
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: reiterating that Cloyd cluld Or already knows what you want

704
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: before you have to say anything, right, whether that's a

705
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: croissant that's slightly under baked, or he knows had a

706
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: fold laundry just the way you use the way you

707
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 2: like it badly, which is what she said in a

708
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: kind of self aware ironic tone because this robot spent

709
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: two minutes trying to fold a single towel and it

710
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: couldn't do it. These things don't work, and they're not

711
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: meant to. It's meant to drive traffic and attention towards

712
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 2: the LG brand, because there's many tons of ours been

713
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: like look at LG's new butler robot, right and that,

714
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: and that's that's all that they're doing at this demo,

715
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: because this is not a real product for sale.

716
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: Yeah it is.

717
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: It is meant to drive attention to the brand and

718
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: get articles, and then those articles are going to get

719
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: you know, cited by by other by other lllfs, and

720
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: it's this it's this cycle that just keeps building.

721
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: There's some really impressive stuff there too, Like I went

722
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: to Persona AI's booth which had a bunch of computers

723
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: that had without that were not connected to the internet.

724
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: All the signs told you that, And it has on

725
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: pc AI image generators where it's all on the machine itself,

726
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: and you know, one of the representatives said, come on,

727
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: give it a prompt, it will generate an image. And

728
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: I've never used an AI image generator, and so I

729
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: kind of panic I'll be honest, like I got freaked out.

730
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: It's gonna be some bullshit.

731
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: Tom size more with dead kid. Yeah, now that's not

732
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: Tom size more, but that is a man cuddling a

733
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: dead child. The kid doesn't the face is gone, and

734
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: that's not Tom size more. Like but you know, the future,

735
00:33:58,920 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: the future.

736
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 2: No this, I can't. I don't want to harp on

737
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: Cloyd too much, but it's so it's such.

738
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: A good Every additional time you say Cloyd, it sounds

739
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: less like, such.

740
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 2: A good example of what this show is specifically this year,

741
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: how there's there's there's nothing new, so they're reaching into

742
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: like into like the cees of of yesteryear. Yeah, I'm

743
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: trying to push two things together and pretend that it's

744
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: a new thing. And when it doesn't work, they're like, oh,

745
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 2: this is actually a good things. He's folding the towel

746
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: just the way I like, and that's bad. Poorly. Look,

747
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: he spends ninety seconds putting a single shirt into the

748
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: washing machine, and this is him being very thorough. That

749
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:37,720
Speaker 2: that was the words.

750
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: He's being very thorough, really putting the time, and.

751
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: You're like, this thing doesn't work.

752
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: It is bad. It's a bad product. Part of the

753
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: mistake they made, I think is that because this is

754
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: the year of robots, there are robots there that are

755
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 1: like industrial application robots that are showcasing we have made

756
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: a robot with humanoid hands that is capable of more

757
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: intricate movements than any other human hand robot before, and

758
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: they should showed it like intricately folding like a wheel.

759
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, that I have not seen

760
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: a robot with humanoid hands that has had that much

761
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: dexterity before. I'm sure that has some useful industrial applications.

762
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: And then you go from that and there's a bunch

763
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: of other robots that are industrial where it's like, we

764
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 1: have built a new tip for this robot that allows

765
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: it to do this kind of automotive work, or allows

766
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: it to do this kind of like manufacturing work, right

767
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: where I'm like, I assume not being an expert on robotics,

768
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: but you're saying it's the world's first robot that can

769
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: handle this task. But that's at least an innovation. You

770
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: talk about the ethics of replacing hit, but like that's

771
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: a thing that is a new capability, and you have

772
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: those robots next to the robots that human beings arectionally

773
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: meant to buy and put in their homes, none of

774
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: which work well, all of which are exactly as capable

775
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: as robots twenty years ago, except there's a chatbot on them,

776
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: and it makes it all look worse. Where you're showing

777
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: me what theoretically the best in robotics can do, and

778
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: then I'm looking at the thing I'm supposed to have

779
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: in my house and it just fell down and it

780
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: can't fold laundry, and you want me to spend six

781
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: thousand dollars or twelve thousand dollars. One of the robot

782
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: the uh uh I think it was like Booster X

783
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: or something like that, the one that was dressed like

784
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. You're supposed to have as a companion for

785
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: your child. It'll help it with its homework using chatch ept.

786
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: It's small dancing robots.

787
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: Small dancing robot. Yes, yes, the small dancing robot that

788
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: you've been hit in the head with a liquor bottle

789
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: and it won't break. That was part of the ad video.

790
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: You know how you always would to hit your get

791
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 2: into the head with a liquor bottle, Get out this

792
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 2: anger with this tiny child's high.

793
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 6: Robot robot senator for your child.

794
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: And again, if someone was marketing a robot senator, like

795
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: are you angry at your spouse? You can beat the

796
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: shit out of this robot and be fine. At least

797
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: that's an idea.

798
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 5: You know, with AI technology, the robot will actually learn

799
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 5: your spouse's personality and respond accordingly. Take the beatings.

800
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: Look, look, I've been hitting this robot after I come

801
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: back from work every day for the last two weeks.

802
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: And look as soon as I walk on the door

803
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: it starts to shake the.

804
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 6: Previous models in this way. It wasn't satisfied.

805
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it took a long time for a team to

806
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: figure out how to give a robot PTSD. By god,

807
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: we've crossed the rubicon.

808
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: As you can see, Vegas is taking its toll on

809
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: our psyches as we've done a extended intimate partner abuse. Bid.

810
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: He's not a partner. It's robot Garrison.

811
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: Oh, you're right, it's not.

812
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: Also, the robot can think and feel and has core

813
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: memories and can love.

814
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: You don't put those two things together. These only exist

815
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 2: as separate thoughts.

816
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: So this robot basically has a soul watches hit it

817
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: with a liquor bottle.

818
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 5: It would just be so great to like with all

819
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 5: of the how much they're focused on the AI can

820
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 5: develop real human connection.

821
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 6: But it's also Sacharin.

822
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 5: I would love to just do a booth where it's

823
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 5: like we're teaching our robots hate they can't know how

824
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 5: to hate.

825
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I do want to end by noting one

826
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: thing that we talked about a little briefly, but it

827
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: is kind of low key. The most upsetting thing about this,

828
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: which is I saw a bunch of different booths that

829
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: use the term empathy, and what they meant by empathy

830
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: was the robot can understand and anticipate what you want

831
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: right that it's learning you and your patterns in order

832
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: to offer you in more effect we assist you. And

833
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: I guess technically, yeah, but reducing the concept of empathy

834
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: to the robot knows when you might want snacks is

835
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: kind of evil, like it's in its right empathy means

836
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: the robot knows when to serve you. Is like a

837
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: bad way to talk about empathy. I don't think most

838
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,959
Speaker 1: people when you know what is empathy, well, it means

839
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: someone knows when I want to be up sold on

840
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: a Hyundai. That's not what empathy is.

841
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, our robot learns empathy by being instrumental to you

842
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 5: and useful seeaously what you know the core of empathy.

843
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: We made our robot watch four hours of videos from

844
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: Gaza and it immediately said, I bet those kids went

845
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: on Hyundai a Lantra like that. I anyway, Yeah.

846
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 2: It's if your version of empathy is trying to sell

847
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 2: coke vanilla because we have all of this, all this stock.

848
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: Oh wait too much.

849
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 3: We fucked up.

850
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 2: We are in trouble, We're under That's what empathy is.

851
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, Welcome to the future.

852
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: Everyone's a CES miracle.

853
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: It's a CES miracle. Goodbye. This is it could happen

854
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: here a podcast about things falling apart and today the

855
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: things falling apart our consumer electronics as an industry. We

856
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: are at CES twenty twenty six, the trade show where

857
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 1: the tech industry shows us everything that's going to sell

858
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: us in the next year. And we've seen some cool

859
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: stuff and a lot of bloatwear, a lot of crap,

860
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: a lot of AI enabled stuff that doesn't need to

861
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: be AI enabled. Here to talk about it is our

862
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: panel of experts.

863
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: Needs experts is a strong word.

864
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: But okay, yeah, panel is a strong word. Is even

865
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: a strong word. I'm Robert Evans, Garrison Davis is also

866
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: with me.

867
00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 6: And I'm Ben Rose Porter.

868
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: And you know been you're an academic, right you do

869
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 1: you do college?

870
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 8: Yeah?

871
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 6: College, I'm a teach sociology.

872
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, as a sociopath. Uh, how academy, folks.

873
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 5: It's fascinating, love, I mean, you know, it's a fascinating world. Sociologically.

874
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 5: You can learn a lot of the maladies of society

875
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 5: at this place.

876
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: It's most of them are on display here.

877
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: We are now going to walk you through a bunch

878
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: of the largely non ai products that we were able

879
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: to find after sorting through the gunk.

880
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of like like you know how people

881
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: like pan for gold. Yes, if instead of like panning

882
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: for gold and like a beautiful mountain stream like you

883
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: were panning for gold and like a pile of used condoms, gold.

884
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: Is also generous. This is the panning for pennies in

885
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 2: a pile of used condoms.

886
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: Right right now? What was the best used condom you

887
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: saw it? Twenty twenty six?

888
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: Garrison, I think you mean, what's the best Penny good products.

889
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: Did we see any good products?

890
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some good ones.

891
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 2: Did I I don't know if I saw any good

892
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: products this year.

893
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: The translation stuff is still around, and some of it's

894
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: really cool now.

895
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, we've in other episodes we've talked about

896
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: the glasses and the earbuds. Most of the product sheets

897
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: I have out now are at the very least mixed

898
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: if if if not, it's not bad. At Eureka Park

899
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: there was this product called Nodi, which is a smartphone

900
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 2: replacement for kids, like kids like six to twelve if

901
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: you don't want them having a smartphone, and it allows

902
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 2: them to send voice messages to a parent and who

903
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 2: like you know has like this approoved contact list, so

904
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 2: you can you can also listen to music, listen to

905
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: like some like radio, like like you know radio, dramas,

906
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: price and books. It connects to Spotify. You can learn

907
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: languages allegedly or you can you can learn words, right,

908
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: you can learn words from other languages, and you can

909
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: communicate with your parents. And this was like fine, right,

910
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 2: it's the stuff that we've kind of seen before, but

911
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: it was this little like you know, silken kind of

912
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: looks like like a elf bar. If you're familiar with

913
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: an elf bar, it kind of looks like that, and

914
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: it's if, yeah, if you don't want to give your like,

915
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 2: you know, six year old an iPhone, but you you know,

916
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 2: want them to have a way to contact you, right,

917
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 2: and that's like fine. Right. So there's there's a lot

918
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 2: of like basic stuff like that. I guess that is

919
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 2: like kind of okay. I don't want to be cynical

920
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: for the sake of being cynical. That kind of stuff

921
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: bores me. But there really wasn't that many good products

922
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: this year because so many of them just were LLLM rappers,

923
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 2: as we discussed in our previous episode.

924
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: And there's another there were products that were good and

925
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: I could tell we're good products on their own that

926
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: they had still thrown AI functionality that I don't want

927
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: that I know will blow out the price and also

928
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: makes it me less want to buy it. LG was

929
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: advertising their new OLED television that has like the most

930
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: vibrant colors, the best OLED screen that's ever been on

931
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: a TV. I'm sure it looked fucking great. Yeah, video

932
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: of it. The colors, the darks are amazing. Screens are

933
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: really good, but it's also with AI with Evo AI

934
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: and show off it's vibrant colors and what's capable of.

935
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: They had a loop of videos that were inspired by

936
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: the hubbled Space telescope and you can see it if

937
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: if you ever watched Deep Space nine. It's about the

938
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: quality of the Deep Space nine intro.

939
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,959
Speaker 2: It does look very Star Trek intro.

940
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is frustrating because again we have images show

941
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: the actual image show they look cool because you know

942
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: what they are is real, Like they're real products of

943
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: one of the most impressive things human beings ever made.

944
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: And you're bragging that, like we have an AI generating

945
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: images inspired by this thing that look worse.

946
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a lot of those things. They're kind

947
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 2: of mixed.

948
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: I wanted the TV I want. I was like, Wow,

949
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: I might like a TV like that until you displayed

950
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: that part of it, and now I just kind of

951
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: feel dirty about even the prospect of wanting one of

952
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: your products.

953
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: This is an interesting product I saw the like the

954
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 2: Innovation Awards showcases is the acoustic eye, which is kind of.

955
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: First off, that's an ear.

956
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 2: That's an ear, like, right, that's an ear. We don't

957
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: need to do that, But this is a secifically a

958
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: security system that tries to detect very small drones. And

959
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 2: this is like for you know, high profile people's houses.

960
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 2: Mostly you can put that on your roof or your

961
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 2: window and it'll detect very small drones that cameras would

962
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: not be able to detect. So it's trying to like

963
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: listen for drones. It provides three hundred and sixty degree

964
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 2: omnidirectional aerial surveillance detecting invisible aerial threats. So I would

965
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: assume that they're trying to excel these to like, you know,

966
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: like executives like CEOs, politicians, people who are at risk

967
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: of either you know, drones filming around their house or

968
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 2: more like kinetic drone based attacks. Right, And this is

969
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: an interesting product that's like very current. It's a very

970
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 2: current product like this is this is a reflection of

971
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 2: some of the times that we're in.

972
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: And yeah, I.

973
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: Found I found that to be one of an interesting thing.

974
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: I guess these we should discuss the exoskeleton, which is

975
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 2: maybe the best part of the show for me.

976
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: Yes, there's all a lot more exoskeletons this year. The

977
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: technology is clearly matured and mature to the point that

978
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: not only is it, do they have viable versions for

979
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: like industrial use for people working in factories and whatnot? Right,

980
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: which two years ago is what they were always advertising,

981
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: is that these are things that you buy at an

982
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: enterprise level. And I know they're not primarily concerned with

983
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: the health and well being of their workers, but actually

984
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: these do improve health and well being of workers. Right.

985
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: It reduces the felt load and the felt strain, It

986
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: reduces the damaged knees and back, right.

987
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 2: And that does affect their productivity, right, And it.

988
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: Also affects the profit because you're not you're less likely

989
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: to have workmen's comp claims. Right. It's one of those

990
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where it's a really good

991
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: idea and the products work. There's a number of very

992
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: good exoskeletons we received from a company called hyper Shell,

993
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: an exoskeleton before the convention this year that you and

994
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 1: I both wore on the floor. I have some data

995
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 1: on it, which is that I timed my normal walking

996
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 1: pace when I'm not particularly trying to get anywhere about

997
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: nineteen minutes a mile, right, if I'm just kind of

998
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: like walking casually. When I put the Hypershell on and

999
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: had it at seventy five percent power mode. My walking

1000
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: pace was fifteen to sixteen minutes a mile, about fifteen

1001
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: and a half, I think is what I generally advertised.

1002
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: And my heart rate didn't change meaningfully. It was like

1003
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: one or two higher than it normally is, but not

1004
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: really a significant change and heart rate, right, And I

1005
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: felt like at the end of the day, my feet

1006
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 1: heard about a normal amount for a day at cees,

1007
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: but my lower back in my knees felt less strained. Right.

1008
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: That was my experience with the iber shell.

1009
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 2: It's like an external hip almost attatches around your waist.

1010
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a belt around your hip and it goes

1011
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: up to right above your knees. Is kind of the

1012
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: and so it's not a huge footprint.

1013
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: No, it's a very small device. And yeah, goes goes

1014
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: on your hip. Then another strap like goes above your

1015
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 2: knee and it kind of assists or guides your leg

1016
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 2: and your hip up and down.

1017
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. And for the record, folks, the basic version of

1018
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: this product is about a thousand dollars. The version we

1019
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: had was about twenty one hundred dollars, right, And the

1020
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: battery will last about thirty kilometers. They say I didn't

1021
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: have any trouble getting about an eight hour day out

1022
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: of it.

1023
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: Ben, you wore it much more than I did. I

1024
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 2: wore it a little bit. Do you want to just

1025
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 2: talk about your experience with hyper Shell.

1026
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1027
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 5: I was impressed with it. It was, first of all, Hypershell,

1028
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 5: very funny. Am I like that name. It was pretty

1029
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 5: comfortable to wear, which is I always see the exoskeletons

1030
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 5: and I'm like, it looks kind of awkward. But it

1031
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 5: was like it was very easy to take on and

1032
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 5: pull off. I was, and it was comfortable, and it

1033
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 5: was pretty simple. And it basically just has two motors

1034
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 5: that sort of assist. When you move your leg, it

1035
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 5: pushes your leg and when it comes back in the step,

1036
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 5: it pushes it back down, and so it's just assisting

1037
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 5: and it tracks your leg pretty well, so there's just

1038
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 5: very little time when you're pushing against the machine. It's

1039
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 5: coordinated very well. I mean, it just functioned. It worked,

1040
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 5: and you could walk a long time.

1041
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. The fact that it's like, yes, it's a product

1042
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: that works and it does a thing that has utility,

1043
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: it feels increasingly rare at CEES.

1044
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 5: I was a little disappointed that the product did not

1045
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 5: pay attention to my emotions and build a relationship of

1046
00:47:58,280 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 5: empathy with me.

1047
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 9: But the walking was cut.

1048
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. I asked the hyper Michelle about its opinions on Proust,

1049
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 1: and it had very little to say.

1050
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: It is it isn't like two main modes. It has

1051
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 2: like this eco mode and it's this hyper mode, which

1052
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: can get really aggressive.

1053
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: If you turn up hyper mode of lifting your legs,

1054
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: you can.

1055
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 2: You can you can be bounding, yeah, and you you

1056
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: can even you can addres like the torque. You can

1057
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 2: address like how how much delay it has. You have

1058
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 2: a lot of different settings. The one thing that I

1059
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: had a lot of fun with is that there's this

1060
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 2: other experimental mode I don't know if you turned it

1061
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: on yet, called called fitness mode. Fitness mode is cool.

1062
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: It does the opposite. It adds resistance to the like,

1063
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 2: so it's it's for like working out. If you want

1064
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 2: like a harder hype right, then you can you can.

1065
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 2: You can turn on fitness mode and then it'll be

1066
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 2: it's more work like how Goku trained to walk. Sure,

1067
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: But something I I I that's an anime thing.

1068
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: By the way.

1069
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: Now, one thing that I've found out through through my

1070
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: own my my, my own cunning is that if you

1071
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: have hyper mode turned on all the way, which it

1072
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 2: was when when Ben was wearing the exoskeleton on my phone,

1073
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:10,240
Speaker 2: I can switch from hypermode to fitness mode immediately, which

1074
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: completely halts any movement. So you can be walking at

1075
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: like seven.

1076
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: Fuck up your friends if they don't have the app.

1077
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 2: At seven, you're walking with like seven miles an hour,

1078
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 2: really fast speed walking, and then I press a button

1079
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: and your legs are go to an immediate halt. And

1080
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: it was really fun to do that for about seven hours.

1081
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, I almost crashed into several people just scare to

1082
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 5: get his kicks.

1083
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm glad you found the terrorize your friend option

1084
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: on that.

1085
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 2: It was really fun. It was fun.

1086
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: Most of the time I used it. I had installed

1087
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: the app when I got it, but I didn't think

1088
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: about it after that. Because there you can do everything

1089
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: on device, or at least you can do a lot

1090
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: a lot of analyze device. You get a lot more

1091
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: options when you're using the app, but you don't need

1092
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: the app to handle the basic functionality, right.

1093
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: I loved adjusting the like the intensity of how much

1094
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 2: how much doing? And it shows a who bunch of

1095
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: like applications, right you can wear yeah, hiking, like running,

1096
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 2: doing you know, lifting your work.

1097
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: And I like the thoughtfulness in there. You don't need

1098
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: the app to use this, but the app vastly the

1099
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: app allows you, gives you a lot of control that

1100
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: you're not going to get off of a simple like button.

1101
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 10: Right.

1102
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1103
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: It just struck me as good design.

1104
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 2: It has a lot of like fidelity. Yeah yepp.

1105
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 1: So that's the Hypershell folks good exos kels, And I've

1106
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: used a few at various cess and this one certainly

1107
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: strikes me as like a very good like consumer option,

1108
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: like if you, as an individual want one. And I'm

1109
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: sure still most of the sales are going to be

1110
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: like enterprise different companies that have like you know, want

1111
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: these for people who are doing like loading and unloading

1112
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: and like a loading dock or whatever. But I think

1113
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: the price prices will continue to go down and they

1114
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: are now hitting the point where this is like a

1115
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: thing that individuals can afford if they want one. And

1116
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: there is a lot of and Hypershell focused on this

1117
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: in some of their advertising, but there's a lot of

1118
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: utility for people with disabilities for stuff like this, right,

1119
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: Like that's part of the point of all of these

1120
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: different products and in general, when it came to the

1121
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 1: stuff where like the because there's AI in this too,

1122
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: Hypershol talks about it, and it's mostly just like how

1123
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: it learns and reacts to your motions, right that that's

1124
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: like machine learning. When we talk about AI, usually the

1125
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 1: useful applications you could also just call machine learning. That's

1126
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: what we used to say. But in general, the products

1127
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: that impressed me most and scared me most at CEES

1128
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: were healthcare related products. Right where we have a towel

1129
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: that reads your sweat and can tell if you have

1130
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: like vitamin deficiencies or if you're if you're not hydrated enough,

1131
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: or all of these different like the number of products

1132
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: where it's both like, yes, this thing can tell if

1133
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: you've like fatty liver disease like based on without needing

1134
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: to go to a doctor. And I'm sure that is

1135
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: useful and will help a lot of people. And also

1136
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: all of these products are selling your data to the

1137
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: highest better your health data. You're biometrics. If you ask

1138
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: them about that, Sorry, I am not aware of that

1139
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: being the specific thing for the fatty liver people. That

1140
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: was my problem with all the health wearables, I should

1141
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: just to be sure, I should clarify the wearable are

1142
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 1: all on the cloud, and every one of the ones

1143
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: I saw has deals with the LLLM companies that they're

1144
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: working with and are handing your data over.

1145
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's how they get quote unquote smarter is

1146
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 2: through a massive data data collection.

1147
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: And so there's this thing where there is this kind

1148
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: of baseline expectation here that everyone is fine with handing

1149
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 1: over all of their data, all of their physical data,

1150
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: all their biometrics, which I they're like, the utility is

1151
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: undeniable of things that can diagnose that you need to

1152
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: go to the to a doctor, or can at least

1153
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: suggest like the existence of problems combined with and we

1154
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: are not at all interested in keeping that information secure.

1155
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: I find the kind of casual and no one will

1156
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: because I don't think people will. I think people will

1157
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: buy these products and not think about who's getting access

1158
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,919
Speaker 1: to their biometric data. And I wish that people cared

1159
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: about that.

1160
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 2: And we've seen that specifically be a problem like around

1161
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 2: like pregnancy, yeah, and with states restricting abortion and the

1162
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 2: ways in which these companies are aware of people's bodies

1163
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 2: even before the actual people are.

1164
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 1: Here's an AD break. All right, we're back from ADS.

1165
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: So I went to Lenovo's booth. It was a bunch

1166
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: of laptops. I use Lenovo laptops. They make good products.

1167
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 1: It was every product there was. Either here is a

1168
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 1: new update to the line of laptops we've been making

1169
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: for thirty years. This is the latest one, this is

1170
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: the latest think pad carbon, this is the latest you know,

1171
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: idea pad or whatever. And then they had a couple

1172
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: of like the big thing that were showing was the

1173
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: Lenovo Twist, which is a laptop that has a screen

1174
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: that can twist around and so it can lay flat

1175
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: like a tablet, but it can also the thing that

1176
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: we're really showing is that it's motorized and it has

1177
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 1: AI enabled, so it can follow your face and you

1178
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: can set it to track an individual's face and as

1179
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: you move, it will move with you. Now it has

1180
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: two different modes. Is also you can like gesture to it,

1181
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: or you can command it by voice and you can

1182
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: say go into laptop mode, go into tablet mode, turn left,

1183
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: turn right. That did not work well. About half the

1184
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: time in the demo that I saw, it did not respond,

1185
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 1: maybe because the room was loud, maybe because the data

1186
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: was bad. But then he put it into face tracking

1187
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 1: mode and when you have multiple faces, you can pick

1188
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: which face it tracks and it swiveled to meet your

1189
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: face and it was cool and it did work very well.

1190
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: I was like, this is impressive, Like what is the use?

1191
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: Why would you want it? And he was like, well,

1192
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 1: say you're doing a presentation, like you're a CEO or

1193
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: something doing a presentation. This way the screen with your

1194
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: text on it or the PowerPoint on it will follow

1195
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: you as you move around. And I was like, that

1196
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: could be useful. I don't feel like many people are

1197
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: in that situation often. I've never been in that situation

1198
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: in my life, and I speak in public for a

1199
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 1: living sometimes, so I guess, yeah, there probably is a

1200
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: CEO who would benefit. There's like of those guys like

1201
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: what is the This is a whole laptop product line,

1202
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: you have multiple versions, and I didn't get a single

1203
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: reason why you would want this other than that, other

1204
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: than for presentations. And it's genuinely impressive that it can

1205
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: track your face and move as you move, but why

1206
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 1: And another product they had that was in the bolt

1207
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 1: Y category was the Lenovo Legion and this is not

1208
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: a product that's ever going to come out, but it

1209
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: was like a proof of concept. So it's their gaming

1210
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: laptop line and it has a normal screen that can

1211
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 1: widen to be three times as long and it unfolds.

1212
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 1: They have screens that unfold, and it's cool that they

1213
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 1: could do that, and it looked neat, and it's neat

1214
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: that a screen has that capability. I don't want it

1215
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: because it also it doesn't look I could see like

1216
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: obviously I can see utility and like you can have

1217
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: a screen that gets bigger without it being a bigger

1218
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 1: footprint for the laptop. But when the screen is unfolded,

1219
00:55:54,760 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: there's huge like speed bump size, looking like wads of

1220
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: screen that are bigger and like bulge out, and it

1221
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: doesn't look good, like it's a bad screen.

1222
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 2: It's like a little like bubby.

1223
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, when it's fully extended, it's not like a good screen.

1224
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 2: You said, it's a prove of concept piece, Like there's

1225
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: this thing. I mean like they're.

1226
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: Showing that they've they're working on folding screen technology.

1227
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 2: The Twist was was like a previous version of that.

1228
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 2: The proof of concept called the Swivel was at CES

1229
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 2: last year. Yes, and they improved it and now it's

1230
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 2: a real product called the twist, right, and maybe this

1231
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 2: could be the case for this, like like unrolling unfolding.

1232
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: Eventually it will be in products, right, Yeah, But I

1233
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,959
Speaker 1: also don't think I don't see how you cannot have

1234
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: the bulge just kind of and a girl to the

1235
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: screen work.

1236
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,919
Speaker 2: The folding screens have come along way the past five years.

1237
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: I use one. Yeah, they also do have some pixel

1238
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 1: dying in the fold area.

1239
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, if you're trying to buy products for longevity,

1240
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 2: probably not the thing for you. If you like it

1241
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 2: for the novelty, and for some reason have enough cash

1242
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 2: to burn, then maybe it's something I think someone will

1243
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 2: be interested in.

1244
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: As I was watching an unfold, there were two guys

1245
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: behind me and talking about it, and one of them

1246
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, it's not a real it's not going

1247
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: to actually come out like that's even like the old

1248
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: version of the chassis. And I said, I just don't

1249
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: really see a use. I don't think people want a

1250
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: product like this, Like I'm looking at it, the screen's

1251
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: not great, and I just don't see who's going to

1252
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: buy this. And the guy behind me said, well, I

1253
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: think like the the use case is like billionaire CEOs

1254
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: and other people have a lot of money. And I

1255
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: looked at it. It was a Lenovo rep and I was like, hah,

1256
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: that's not that's the use Why who are like that's not?

1257
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: Like did you just say that to me?

1258
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 2: A Lenovo rep said that.

1259
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's one of the guys doing the demos.

1260
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: He had a wild Lenovo badge on and I, yeah,

1261
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: that was weird to me.

1262
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 2: That's wild.

1263
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: But again, at least it was a thing.

1264
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 2: No, it was it was a physical product.

1265
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: Cause the other thing they had they had the workstation,

1266
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: which the thing they were showing was there's an app

1267
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: on it that looks at your face and said shows

1268
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: you how fatigued you are by person, and how fatigued

1269
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: your eyes are, and like other data. And I was like, oh,

1270
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: that's creepy and kind of impressive. But then I walked

1271
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: away and I came back and it gave me a

1272
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: totally different set of numbers for my fatigue.

1273
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 2: Where you differently fatigued.

1274
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: No, I was a second later, and I did it

1275
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: four times, and every time the set of numbers was

1276
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: like different enough that the only assumption I can make

1277
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: is that it was those aren't real numbers. It's just

1278
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 1: generating a number and telling you that. And it's full

1279
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: of shit because it wouldn't have been so different if

1280
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: it was actually measuring anything. It's just random numbers that

1281
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: it's putting on to make you think it's measuring something.

1282
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 2: It's probably trying to it. There might be just subtle

1283
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 2: things that dramatically changed the numbers.

1284
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: I tried. I specifically once I noticed that, tried to

1285
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: keep my face flat, and I did notice when you

1286
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: move closer and further it changes. But I think it's

1287
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: just programmed to as you move, alter the numbers so

1288
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: that you see the number moving. But every time I

1289
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: came on new it was a different number. It went

1290
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: from like when I started was like point oh two,

1291
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: and the second time I came back it was point

1292
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: five to zero. And again I did nothing. I was

1293
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 1: specifically keeping my face neutral, like it's just this, it's

1294
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: not a big I think.

1295
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 2: I think that type of stuff will will get better,

1296
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 2: like we've seen versions of that before that have actually

1297
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 2: done like okay.

1298
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, but there could.

1299
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 2: Be a lot of factors into like into why why

1300
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 2: the demo goes a certain way.

1301
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: The face tracking and facial recognition were But I went

1302
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: to this booth that like the big thing they were

1303
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: doing was like uh, driving assistant robots that would like

1304
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: yell at you if you fell asleep or if you

1305
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: like looked away and were like texting or something. It

1306
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: would say, like look away from your phone, look at

1307
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: the screen please, And there's definitely like utility there, right,

1308
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: Like that is probably a good idea.

1309
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 2: I mean we saw that last year at Samsung's section

1310
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 2: of Eureka Park for like like test taking, to like

1311
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 2: make sure students aren't cheating at tests, right, So it

1312
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: like sends an alert every time the students' eyes goes

1313
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 2: away from like the computer screen, like if they like

1314
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 2: keep like looking down like like under if they could

1315
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 2: be checking like their phone or notes.

1316
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 1: Smart Eye is the company. One thing I did appreciate

1317
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: it was that the little device that they put in

1318
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 1: was just like a circle with two eyes on it

1319
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: as opposed to like a whole dashboard. So that seemed nice.

1320
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: But the thing that they had the first thing I

1321
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: used was this optical recognition system where it learned my

1322
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: eyes and then when I came on, it would give

1323
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: my name every time I walked up to it and

1324
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 1: so like, yeah, it definitely like recognizes at least your eyes.

1325
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 2: That's a message.

1326
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: It could switch between different people. But it was also

1327
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: it can tell when you're drunk, they claim, And I

1328
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: couldn't tell that. I couldn't. I was high on kratom

1329
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: and I had smoked Delta aid, so I was definitely

1330
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: not sober. It didn't recognize me as not sober, so

1331
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: it couldn't measure those things. Maybe it can tell if

1332
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: you're drunk. The demo, it's it, they said it could,

1333
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: and they showed a woman when she was sober and

1334
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: when she was drunk, and they explained to me it

1335
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: was actually really difficult because we did this on a

1336
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: close track and she is really drunk and we had

1337
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: to jump through a lot of hoops for them to

1338
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: let us have a person drunk driving that's track. And

1339
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: I did find that kind of funny. Your response, that

1340
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: is how you test?

1341
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 2: That would be kind of a hard thing to test. Yeah,

1342
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: you could testing like simulations, right, but.

1343
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 1: They wanted like this was supposed to be a perf

1344
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: concept in vehicle and it'll shut down the car. I

1345
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 1: did have some people posting when I posted a video

1346
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: of that that like I have this condition with my

1347
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 1: eyes or that condition with my eyes, and normal optical

1348
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: recognition stuff doesn't work with me. Is this going to

1349
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 1: show that I'm drunk or is it going to be

1350
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: able to And I actually don't know. Again, I'm not

1351
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: I was not able to test the product that that

1352
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: does seem like a concern I would hope they've dealt with,

1353
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: But also I kind of doubt they did because usually

1354
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: there's gaps.

1355
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I could see a company like this partnering

1356
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 2: with like an insurance company or partnering with like certain

1357
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: cars that would like, yeah, stop the car from being

1358
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 2: able to be moved if it detects the driver as drunk, yes,

1359
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 2: and how like false positives would play into that. And

1360
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 2: then you just like are like locked out of your

1361
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 2: car right because this robot thinks you're intoxicated and actually

1362
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 2: you're fine. You just like look like that.

1363
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: And I could also see them like rolling this product

1364
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: out and it hits like Thailand or something, and then

1365
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: there being a big store where it's like they didn't

1366
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 1: test this on any people of like Thaie Ancestry, and

1367
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: I actually sees all of them as drunk because of

1368
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: like an error in the coding sure, and being like

1369
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: oh great, like like I'm not again smart ie. From

1370
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: what I can tell, their technology worked, but in order

1371
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: to adequately like review and test it, you do need

1372
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: you need more access to it than they're giving it

1373
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: the show. I can't actually tell you if it works

1374
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: a determined when people are drunk. I can just show

1375
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: you they had a video claiming it does so.

1376
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: One product that I feel at best mixed about I

1377
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 2: first saw in the CS Innovation Awards section. This is

1378
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 2: called Self Insight Therapy Resolve XR from South Korea.

1379
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: Oh, one of my two favorite Koreas by the way,

1380
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: just since we're talking Korea.

1381
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 2: This is a VR therapy program that is supposed to

1382
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 2: give give you a final goodbye with a deceased loved

1383
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:52,479
Speaker 2: one in VR. Yes, this was my initial reaction as well.

1384
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 2: And like I've seen Jon, I've seen versions of this

1385
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 2: before where it's like an LM or like an AI yeah,

1386
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 2: pretending to be your like dead wife that you're like

1387
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 2: hug in VR. Sure, and that type of stuff. I've

1388
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 2: I've generally felt bad about some of the people who've

1389
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 2: used it, like in like you know, like the promotional

1390
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 2: videos are you know, crying, and I feel and like

1391
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 2: the product in a way.

1392
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: As a friend, I will promise you if that moment

1393
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: ever comes for you all pretend to be your dead wife.

1394
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 2: I don't even know what to say that I've but

1395
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: what I found interesting about Resolve XR is that the

1396
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 2: the avatar of your deceased loved one is not that

1397
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 2: is not actually an AI, nor is it a fully

1398
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 2: pre recorded like prescripted like simulation. It is being puppeted

1399
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 2: by a therapist that you are working with as a

1400
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 2: part of the Gestalt empty chair therapy technique. And this

1401
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 2: this is what the product is. So you're working with

1402
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 2: a therapist who is using text to speech, that is

1403
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: talking as your deceased, as your deceased loved one as

1404
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 2: a part of this therapy exercise. If you have if

1405
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 2: you have recordings of their voice, the AI will try

1406
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 2: to replicate their voice. That's something I feel a little

1407
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 2: bit odd about. But like that is like the one

1408
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 2: like aspect of like que unquote AI that's being used

1409
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 2: here is for is for the voice cloning. And then

1410
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 2: there is like a pre a prerecorded set of like

1411
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 2: gestures that someone does in like motion capture, but the

1412
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 2: actual like like live puppeting of this thing is done

1413
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 2: by a therapist that you were sitting across from. But

1414
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 2: you have you know the VR goggle song mm hm.

1415
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 2: And this is this is not supposed to be something

1416
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 2: that you do like routinely. It's not like, oh, I

1417
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 2: like like I'm talking to my wife like my wife

1418
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 2: is in VR. It's this is a therapeutic exercise meant

1419
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 2: for people dealing with extreme grief, specifically when loved ones

1420
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 2: have been taken away during like like like accidents like

1421
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 2: they specifically mentioned like a plane crash that happened a

1422
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 2: year ago. And so just for people like an extreme

1423
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 2: extreme grief to give them like closure through this therapeutic exercise.

1424
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 2: And this is this is this is the this is

1425
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 2: the pamphlet.

1426
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: I went through a lot of whiplash because obviously my

1427
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: first assumption was this is an evil product where you

1428
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 1: like feed your loved one social media data and it

1429
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: pretends to be them, and it's not that, and it's

1430
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: good that it's not that, But then it's like it's

1431
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:14,919
Speaker 1: being basically a therapist puppeting your dead loved one. There's

1432
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 1: a couple of conclusions I have. First off, these people

1433
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: are trying to be ethical. It does seem it seems

1434
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: like they care and they are attempting to provide something

1435
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: that is useful to people who are suffering. I also

1436
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: think this might fundamentally this idea might be fundamentally unethical

1437
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: and impossible to do well. So I think this might

1438
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: be a case of someone trying to do the most

1439
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,439
Speaker 1: ethical version of something that cannot be done ethically, which

1440
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 1: is a category of AI device that I've seen this year.

1441
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 5: It's tricky because on one hand, you know, as I

1442
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 5: was talking to the woman at the booth and reading

1443
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 5: through the materials they had, it seemed like they were

1444
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 5: selling this as this is just sort of augmentation to

1445
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 5: a therapeutic practice that has already done. We're just putting

1446
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 5: a you know, a digitally generated face and voice to it.

1447
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 5: But it's so I mean, it's so easy to imagine

1448
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 5: just this company seems somewhat ethically focused. But yeah, all

1449
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 5: kinds of directions you could go in this. It's a

1450
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 5: Pandora's box, a little bit of like, yeah, where where

1451
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 5: we're starting to venture into creating replicas of the dead?

1452
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is And I went to a panel

1453
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: kind of in the same tone on mental health and

1454
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: AI that I thought was going to be an opportunity

1455
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 1: for me to harass an executive during a Q and

1456
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: A because which is which is one of your favorite activity?

1457
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: Everything to do with CES and there literally is like AI.

1458
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 1: There's ample data that it is a disaster for mental health,

1459
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: not just AI psychosis, but there are a lot of

1460
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: things that it makes worse, and a lot of problems

1461
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 1: that it causes people, and a lot of problems that

1462
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: it exacerbates, including like suicidal ideation. This is documented, there's

1463
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: data on it. So that's what I was showing up

1464
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: prepared to do that, and what I actually got was

1465
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: an actual clinical therapist who was trying to talk about

1466
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: who first started by kind by very much admitting the

1467
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 1: dangers with AI and the things that it harms in

1468
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 1: terms of mental health, and then was trying to say

1469
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: what would a responsible and ethical like therapeutic AI do.

1470
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 1: And her argument was, we know how many people need

1471
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 1: therapy and don't have access to it within the United

1472
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: States and worldwide, and some sort of automated BOT system

1473
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 1: that handles aspects of therapy might be the only way

1474
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 1: to provide affordable therapy to the number of people who

1475
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 1: needed who can't currently afford it, and I disagree, or

1476
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 1: at least I don't think that. I don't disagree. It's

1477
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 1: accurate that there's way more people who need mental health

1478
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: than can afford it. Right, that's undeniable, undebatable. I disagree

1479
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: that AI can help this problem in any meaningful way,

1480
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: and in fact think it will only make it worse.

1481
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 1: But I understand that she was coming at this from

1482
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: a I am attempting to define what a responsible, a

1483
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: therapeutic AI might do, and through the course of that

1484
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: I believe she is partially because I talked to her

1485
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 1: about this afterwards too. She thinks it might be possible,

1486
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 1: but is not convinced that it is in fact possible

1487
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 1: for there to be an AI therapy system that is

1488
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 1: actually useful. And one of the things she brought up

1489
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: was that in traditional AI chatbots, the big ones are

1490
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: all programmed to gas you up in order to keep

1491
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: you using them, right, the program to make you want

1492
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 1: to continue to interact with them, and so it does

1493
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 1: things that are really bad for your mental health and

1494
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 1: that can exacerbate and cause new problems, right because of

1495
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: the way these are programmed. So any responsible AI therapy

1496
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: chatbot would have to not do that, which I'm like,

1497
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,640
Speaker 1: that is true, that you can't be a useful therapeutic

1498
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 1: tool that only praises people. Right, that's just not a thing.

1499
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 1: But when I came to afterwards, I was like, my

1500
01:08:57,640 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 1: issue is I think you're right about that, but I

1501
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:03,600
Speaker 1: also think if you're saying the AI therapy bot is

1502
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: going to be a separate product that does not do

1503
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 1: these things. Number one, it's a high bard to get

1504
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: people to pay money for a tool when they already

1505
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 1: have the chat bot. And number two, if the chatbot

1506
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: that is good for them doesn't do the thing that

1507
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: makes it addictive, people will continue to use the addictive

1508
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,679
Speaker 1: one for therapy. And she said, yeah, that's my worry too.

1509
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 1: And so I came away from being like, she's trying

1510
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: to explore if this can be done, and my conclusion

1511
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:29,719
Speaker 1: based on her exploration as it can't.

1512
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 5: But it's so interesting that she said that because she

1513
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 5: and this is I mean me hearing you talk about her,

1514
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 5: she sounds like the only person who is thinking about

1515
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 5: this at all.

1516
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 6: Yes, that's convention.

1517
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 1: She was the only person on the panel. Yeah, of

1518
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: just it was a speech, not a panel, really, yeah.

1519
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 5: Of thinking about that, what are the social relations behind

1520
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 5: these technologies, because of course that's the main question here.

1521
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 5: Is a technology that can generate that can have a

1522
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 5: conversation with you? Is one thing It's not that really

1523
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 5: doesn't seem like the war of the problem so much. Well,

1524
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 5: all the machines that are having conversations are driven by

1525
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 5: very specific incentives, you know, to interact with their users

1526
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:09,680
Speaker 5: in a particular way that has everything to do with

1527
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 5: the social relationships of their production and use. And the

1528
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 5: notion that technology would have any connection to social relations

1529
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 5: at all is completely absent from any discussion of any

1530
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 5: product I've seen here.

1531
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: Speaking of social relations between products and human beings, here's

1532
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 1: some ads. We're back and God, I really love those

1533
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 1: Chumba casino ads. They remind me that whenever I'm out

1534
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 1: in the world, sitting down with my loved ones, you know,

1535
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 1: watching the big Game, I could be gambling, and kind

1536
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: of every other moment of my life that I'm not

1537
01:10:58,479 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: gambling is wasted.

1538
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 2: Robert, have you heard of Calshi?

1539
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: No?

1540
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 2: So you know about politics, right, I love politics, And

1541
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 2: you know about insider trading, right, I love insider What

1542
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 2: if you could do insider trading about all of politics

1543
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 2: on the exclusive inferation that you learn as a journalist.

1544
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 1: Wow, that sounds legal.

1545
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:19,759
Speaker 2: It shockingly is there's actually zero federal or state regulation

1546
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 2: affecting this whatsoever.

1547
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: That's the Calcie guarantee.

1548
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 2: There is no regulatory mechanism that exists on a state

1549
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 2: level to regulate this behavior.

1550
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:28,840
Speaker 1: Now years and you say that, but that's literally just

1551
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: what's printed above their booth.

1552
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 2: Let's talk about maybe the worst product that I saw

1553
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 2: at CEES child Free Trust.

1554
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 1: Boy, So what is it like a software that lets

1555
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 1: you make a trust?

1556
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 5: This software was marketed towards child free people. They lead

1557
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 5: with twenty five percent of Americans don't have children and

1558
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 5: don't intend to have them. Hell yeah yeah, And so

1559
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 5: their idea is that they right here. Child Free Trust

1560
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:03,720
Speaker 5: is the first comprehensive nationwide solution providing medical and financial

1561
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:07,839
Speaker 5: poa executor and trustee representation for child free and permanently

1562
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 5: childless people. So if you are childless and you don't

1563
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 5: want to burden your loved ones, that's their wording with

1564
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 5: you know, your estate plan when you die, This is

1565
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 5: a company that will do that for you. What's interesting, though,

1566
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:26,680
Speaker 5: is that I asked them. I said, well, look, you

1567
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:30,360
Speaker 5: know this presumably already happens, what is in place, and.

1568
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 1: I have a trust in no children.

1569
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, Well does state appoints someone to handle this,

1570
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 5: they'll they will first see if that you have, if

1571
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 5: you have any loved ones who would want to take

1572
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 5: on these duties.

1573
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:44,840
Speaker 1: And obviously people have kids aren't capable of love.

1574
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, they a little bit, I mean strangely

1575
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 5: like so it's it's an it's a product that is

1576
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 5: for we already have a public service that searches for

1577
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:57,760
Speaker 5: people loved ones that could take on these responsibilities, and

1578
01:12:57,840 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 5: if it cannot find those, it takes it on as

1579
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 5: a as a public good. So it was a product

1580
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 5: completely without purpose. It was like you, in order to

1581
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 5: use this, you just have to be intent on separating

1582
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 5: yourself from society in this way. You have no loved

1583
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 5: ones presumably or you don't want them involved in your

1584
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 5: estate planning. You also don't want the state involved, so

1585
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 5: it requires this third party company.

1586
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 6: It was just a very strange product the way they

1587
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 6: presented it.

1588
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,600
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's again, I have a trust and

1589
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: a will. If you don't have a kid, and you

1590
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:32,680
Speaker 1: don't have like a you're not like married, or you

1591
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 1: don't have a surviving spouse, like, yes, the state will

1592
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: appoint somebody, but that process is slower and more expensive.

1593
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 1: If you want to avoid the cost, or if you

1594
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: want to avoid like having a trust and a will

1595
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: is not an unreasonable thing, especially if you want to

1596
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 1: make sure if you have assets and you want to

1597
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 1: make sure they go a specific place, you want to

1598
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:50,520
Speaker 1: donate them somewhere whatever.

1599
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 2: Well, and like a lawyer can handle that, a lawyer.

1600
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 1: Should handle That is what I'm saying is you shouldn't

1601
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:56,520
Speaker 1: use an app.

1602
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 2: Specifically, what they do that the lawyer can't is they

1603
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:02,719
Speaker 2: provide a service for the corporation to execute power of attorney.

1604
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 2: And that is the main thing. So this is the

1605
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 2: most anti social This is the most anti social service

1606
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:12,519
Speaker 2: I've seen it all of ces because it's built on

1607
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 2: this idea that if you have no kids and you

1608
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 2: are so separated from the rest of your family, like

1609
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 2: you don't trust any siblings, you don't trust a spouse,

1610
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,679
Speaker 2: a partner maybe you don't have one, you don't trust parents,

1611
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 2: you don't even trust a friend to to like do

1612
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:29,679
Speaker 2: this for you. Instead that you turn to a company

1613
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 2: a private company. You don't even trust the state, right

1614
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:34,679
Speaker 2: because the state can handle this. It is a private

1615
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 2: corporation that it's going to handle your will, your estate

1616
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 2: and power of attorney. And that that's what really, that's

1617
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:44,760
Speaker 2: what really got me because I asked them it's like, yeah,

1618
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 2: like a lawyer can handle all this, and like, well, no,

1619
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 2: regular lawyer can't be power of attorney. And I was like, oh,

1620
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 2: this is the core of your product actually is that

1621
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 2: it's it's for people who are so anti social, who

1622
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 2: have so separated themselves that they don't trust, They don't

1623
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 2: trust anyone with this. You don't have any loved ones. Really,

1624
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,519
Speaker 2: it's not just about being child free. No, it's like

1625
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 2: it's about you you do not exist like in a

1626
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 2: social network whatsoever.

1627
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 1: Because I can see the kind of people who might

1628
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 1: need this are people or might want this are not

1629
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 1: the people kind of people who'd use apps, because the

1630
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 1: actual the group of people who definitely don't have kids

1631
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: and also may not have any living friends are people

1632
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:22,800
Speaker 1: who are incredibly elderly. It's not even a factor of

1633
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 1: like their life is bleak that it's just you lived

1634
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 1: way too long. You literally don't have anyone left that

1635
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 1: you knew, But they're not going to use an app,

1636
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 1: Like that's just not how they think about. If they

1637
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: don't have a lawyer, they'll let have the state handle it.

1638
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 1: But like they're not they're not going to download the

1639
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 1: child free app. That's one hundred and four year old

1640
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 1: Okinawan woman to like handle this for them. There's like

1641
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 1: a graph on the bottom that here's like features and

1642
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: like which different versions have which features, and the three

1643
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: features are child free, trust, trust and will and then

1644
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: free will as one word, but the ws capitalized. I

1645
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:57,439
Speaker 1: just like seeing free well and then checks and exis

1646
01:15:57,640 --> 01:15:59,439
Speaker 1: at the bottom. You don't get free well on all

1647
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 1: of the options. Sorry, what is free will as a

1648
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 1: surface scarrison? Are they saying the machine has it? Or

1649
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 1: is it literally a free will making service?

1650
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 2: It's I think I think it's creating a will and

1651
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:11,080
Speaker 2: they're saying at free will. I think that's what I think.

1652
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 1: That's what they're doing. Okay, I mean but yeah, no,

1653
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: and this wasn't This was in Eureka part yeah, which

1654
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: is where the cool little products are. That's bad.

1655
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:23,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really bizarre.

1656
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a fun bit that you could do if

1657
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:27,320
Speaker 1: you had the money to show up and just do

1658
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 1: bits at CEES where it's like this company can handle

1659
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: all of your end of life care and decisions and

1660
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 1: just a booth with a handgun on the table.

1661
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:38,600
Speaker 2: So let's talk about to close, let's just discuss like

1662
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 2: what this CEES kind of means in general. We already

1663
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 2: kind of discussed like the AI angle of this, and

1664
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 2: that's something that we've seen throughout this show is these

1665
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:50,719
Speaker 2: these massive banners hanging everywhere about how CES is where

1666
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 2: innovators show k yeah, absolutely, and and how everything's based

1667
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:57,440
Speaker 2: around innovation and creativity and this is where everything descends

1668
01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:00,559
Speaker 2: from and this sort of like like tech idealism that

1669
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 2: the world is based around these concepts of innovation and creativity,

1670
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 2: and they do not mention any any physical way that

1671
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 2: actually comes into the world or the sort of mechanisms

1672
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 2: of the world that allow innovation to take place. And Ben,

1673
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:18,759
Speaker 2: we we've been talking a lot about this the past

1674
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:19,679
Speaker 2: like two days.

1675
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 5: I mean, it's all we're solving all the problems of

1676
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 5: the world and we're fixing everything, and it's all eternal sunshine,

1677
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 5: and where that comes from is innovation and creativity. But

1678
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 5: those are just yeah, totally abstract quantities. There's not even

1679
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,720
Speaker 5: a subject given of like innovators, Well, who who is that?

1680
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 1: Are the product you're innovating?

1681
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you is that?

1682
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 6: The owner?

1683
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:45,640
Speaker 5: Is that the workers who make it? I mean, no

1684
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 5: mention of labor at any point in any of this,

1685
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 5: which I mean that's a given, but.

1686
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 1: Well that's not true. They talked about all the labories

1687
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: you could replace.

1688
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, you can, we don't need them. It's

1689
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 5: the innovation is drawn the full circle, it produces itself. Now, Yeah,

1690
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 5: just that this abstract quantum of I mean, it really

1691
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 5: is kind of interesting. It does become a blur of

1692
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 5: like who is the magical font producing all of this stuff?

1693
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:11,879
Speaker 5: It almost sometimes it almost seems like it's the consumer.

1694
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:15,559
Speaker 5: It's sort of suggesting is like it's actually you who

1695
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 5: creates all of this. It was very vague, very strange.

1696
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:20,520
Speaker 6: M h.

1697
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 2: We went to that one panel about like trying to

1698
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 2: address underserved people who are who are like cut out

1699
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 2: of tech and like cut out of cut out of

1700
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 2: all of these industries.

1701
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:33,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it was very nondescript about who exactly

1702
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 5: that was.

1703
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1704
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 5: They had people talking for the that are paralyzed veterans.

1705
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:42,680
Speaker 5: Someone from the NAACP, and I mean it was just

1706
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 5: one again. There was no actual discussion of the social

1707
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 5: relationships behind technology. It was just entirely about this technology

1708
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:54,679
Speaker 5: is here, It is the first priority, so everything else

1709
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 5: has to follow after. And yeah, very very unclear about

1710
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 5: they They would all talk about what technology could be

1711
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:05,800
Speaker 5: used for, but entirely nondescript about where that process comes from,

1712
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 5: Who's making those decisions, where those centers of power are.

1713
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:11,880
Speaker 1: The reach to have an for existing brands and companies

1714
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 1: that make real things to have an AI angle was

1715
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 1: the most obvious and tortured thing that I saw, And

1716
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 1: like one of my favorite booths every year is the

1717
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 1: Jackery booth. Jacqueery makes batteries and solar panels, and they

1718
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 1: make pretty good batteries and solar panels for like expeditions

1719
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 1: for camping, like the rugged that they can and I

1720
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 1: use them. They're good products. And this year they had

1721
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 1: the new addition of all their batteries and the new

1722
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: edition of all their solar panels, and as generally happens

1723
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 1: with technology, everything's a little better than it was last year.

1724
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: But there's not much room for AI aside from like

1725
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:44,599
Speaker 1: the batteries have AI by which they mean there's like

1726
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: a learning algorithm that can determine like how to optimize

1727
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 1: aspects of like power draw or whatever.

1728
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 3: Like.

1729
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:52,640
Speaker 1: Sure, that's not really AI in the way that the

1730
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 1: AI industry means it, but I'm sure sounds real. But

1731
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:58,720
Speaker 1: because that wasn't enough, they had this thing that they

1732
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 1: called their Mars rover, which was not a Mars rover.

1733
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 1: I don't think we'll ever go on Mars. Does not

1734
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 1: look like it could survive on Mars. But it is

1735
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:08,880
Speaker 1: a rover that is a big battery on wheels that

1736
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 1: is intelligent and can drive itself and has solar panels

1737
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:14,200
Speaker 1: that slide out. And the use case for this was

1738
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:16,840
Speaker 1: it will travel around and can go to where the

1739
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 1: sun is in order to charge itself up and then

1740
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: head to you to offer you outlets when you're doing work.

1741
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: And it's like, is a robot that moves? Really? I

1742
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: can see like two points in my life where I

1743
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:29,600
Speaker 1: might have gotten used to who's gonna buy this for?

1744
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 8: What?

1745
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 1: Where will it be deployed? It just roams around outside

1746
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:36,000
Speaker 1: this expensive machine that does not look like it should

1747
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 1: get rained on too much, and finds the sun to

1748
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:41,600
Speaker 1: charge itself up and then heads over to you to

1749
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 1: charge device. It can't charge a home. It doesn't power

1750
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 1: a house. It's like a little robot.

1751
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:49,680
Speaker 2: Is it really camping? I don't know.

1752
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:51,920
Speaker 1: That was unclear. They showed it being used, and they

1753
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: showed it as like I'm outside and using power tools.

1754
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: The robot came up to me so I could plug in,

1755
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: and like.

1756
01:20:57,320 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 2: I guess you could take like the park, you could

1757
01:20:59,080 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 2: take it to park.

1758
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 1: But it's big.

1759
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 2: It is pretty big.

1760
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 1: It's like a sizeable machine. It probably weighed eighty pounds.

1761
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:09,599
Speaker 1: And again, like, it's impressive that it can go seek

1762
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:12,360
Speaker 1: out the sun to charge itself up. It's impressive that

1763
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:14,320
Speaker 1: you could like call it or like call it with

1764
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: an app and it will come over to you. And

1765
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 1: there's an outlet. Who what is the Who will buy this? Why?

1766
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:21,519
Speaker 2: When that is not one?

1767
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 1: Again? I can think working in my yard, working out

1768
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 1: you know, when I'm shearing the goats or whatever, I

1769
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:29,160
Speaker 1: have had to carry a battery with me because there's

1770
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 1: not an outlet out there and the shears need a battery.

1771
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 1: And yeah, I guess it would be easier if the

1772
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 1: robot moved there. But this has to be like twenty

1773
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 1: thousand dollars I'm not gonna buy a robot to do that.

1774
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 1: I can just pick up a battery and walk with

1775
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:47,680
Speaker 1: it one hundred feet. Who will use this? Why it's

1776
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,400
Speaker 1: not going to Mars? I assure you it's not going

1777
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: to Mars. Again, I wouldn't want it to be left

1778
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:56,720
Speaker 1: out in the rain. And I love the Jaggery products.

1779
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,479
Speaker 1: They make good stuff and the fact that like, yeah,

1780
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 1: you clear scrambled to make this, that you had a

1781
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:05,200
Speaker 1: thing that can compete with all the other AI things.

1782
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 1: And I wish you were just devoting your LIFs to

1783
01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:12,599
Speaker 1: making better solar panels, which is what I want from you. Anyway.

1784
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 5: I'm just curious are the how many is here? Are

1785
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 5: they profitable?

1786
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 6: Like do they?

1787
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean some of them, some.

1788
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:20,760
Speaker 6: Of them, but a lot.

1789
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 1: I mean some of them are funded with VC money

1790
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:25,080
Speaker 1: and have not made a profit. Some of them are

1791
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 1: funded from VC money and have been losing money for years.

1792
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 1: And then there's also like like Lenovo makes it's a company,

1793
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:31,640
Speaker 1: it makes a profit. They make products people buy, you know,

1794
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:33,639
Speaker 1: Jaggery makes products people buy.

1795
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:35,680
Speaker 2: There's also a lot of startups like the Eureka Park

1796
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 2: section that we've been referring to, like the stuff in

1797
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:41,320
Speaker 2: the bottom floor of the Venetian that those there are

1798
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:43,120
Speaker 2: you know a lot of startup companies who are looking

1799
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 2: for investors as well, So yeah, it is definitely a mix.

1800
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 2: Some of them are trying to do like business business sales,

1801
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 2: some of them are more consumer facing, some of them

1802
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 2: are looking for investors, some of them are profitable, and

1803
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 2: other ones are trying to boost their stock price by

1804
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 2: being here, kind of like Kloyd at LG. But I

1805
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 2: think what's really important is that everyone here is an innovator.

1806
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 2: And you know why we know that they're an innovators

1807
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 2: because they've shown up and only innovators show up here

1808
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 2: and they're the real the driving force of the economy.

1809
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 1: And I was feeling bad about myself until I saw

1810
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 1: that band and realize that I am an innovator.

1811
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 2: You know you are an innovator.

1812
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 1: Thank you. I showed up and I figured out how

1813
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:22,519
Speaker 1: to be the guy on the most kratim at the

1814
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 1: at the CEO show floor.

1815
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:26,240
Speaker 2: No, I mean, CS is so is so interesting toe

1816
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 2: be innovated like it? It runs both on this like

1817
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:34,559
Speaker 2: technology idealism where everything is based on people geniuses, you know,

1818
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 2: your Steve Jobs having like ni Stag's job and he

1819
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:40,640
Speaker 2: is the innovator, and everything descends from the idea that

1820
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 2: it's like the thing is like this like like tech platonism,

1821
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 2: So like this is one side of it. You also

1822
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:48,160
Speaker 2: have like the tech accelerationists at CES where it's like

1823
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:52,479
Speaker 2: they occupy this position of being so pro technology no

1824
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 2: matter whatever downsides is the current iteration might have because

1825
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:59,120
Speaker 2: they need someone to hold that position in order for

1826
01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 2: this thing to move forward. They know that there's concerns

1827
01:24:01,400 --> 01:24:05,800
Speaker 2: around data protection, but their opinion is that it doesn't matter.

1828
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 2: There is problems there, but we we the people here

1829
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:11,799
Speaker 2: I see, Yes, the innovators need to ignore them because

1830
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:14,160
Speaker 2: we have to push forward. And this is like this

1831
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 2: is what like the the Austrian Secretary of State said

1832
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:18,479
Speaker 2: that at that one panel I went to. It's like

1833
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 2: data protection is a problem but in a but like

1834
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 2: it gets in the way of innovation. Yeah, and that's

1835
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 2: that's literally literally what he said. Yeah, and so you

1836
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:28,800
Speaker 2: have you have this like this this like tech optimistic

1837
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 2: like acceleration like viewpoint of like technology will be better,

1838
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:34,679
Speaker 2: but in order for it's to be better and safe, essentially,

1839
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:36,680
Speaker 2: it's it's it's gonna gets kind of shitty and has

1840
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:38,679
Speaker 2: some problems now, but we need to push forward through

1841
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:40,559
Speaker 2: that all the way, Like we can't, we can't, we

1842
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 2: can't go slowly. It has it has to go forward.

1843
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:47,000
Speaker 2: So they adopt this this viewpoint because like they need

1844
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 2: someone to hold this like tech optimism viewpoint in order

1845
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:51,879
Speaker 2: for the process to like unfold.

1846
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's something strangely clear eyed about that in the

1847
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:57,680
Speaker 5: way that it's like, yeah, if I mean, if you're

1848
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 5: limiting your view to the system of capitalism, yeah, the

1849
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,679
Speaker 5: whole thing goes into crisis if you are not squeezing

1850
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:07,800
Speaker 5: a little more juice out of the orange, and if

1851
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 5: this is what it takes to do that, then then

1852
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 5: full steam ahead. They're lucid about that.

1853
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1854
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what else is lucid us saying it's

1855
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:16,800
Speaker 1: time to end this fucking podcast.

1856
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:22,080
Speaker 2: Goodbye, another CES miracle we have kind of survived.

1857
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:37,960
Speaker 9: Hey, everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's me James

1858
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:41,639
Speaker 9: today and I'm very lucky to be joined again by Goudain,

1859
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 9: who's a journalist from East Kadistan working with HENGO, the

1860
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:48,639
Speaker 9: human rights organization and lots of other organizations, and we're

1861
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 9: going to talk today about what has been happening in

1862
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:55,520
Speaker 9: Iran for the past few weeks. So thanks for joining Uscordaine.

1863
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,600
Speaker 11: Hello, thank you very much for inviting me again to

1864
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:02,320
Speaker 11: the to this and yeah, I'm really glad to be

1865
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 11: here and I am ready to talk about all the

1866
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 11: things that have happening in the past few weeks in

1867
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 11: Kurdistan and Iran.

1868
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 9: Yeah. I think for a lot of people, what is

1869
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 9: happening in Iran in the last few weeks has not

1870
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:21,240
Speaker 9: made punched into the mainstream US media for the most part, Right,

1871
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 9: So I think we should probably begin with a very

1872
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 9: basic overview of what has been happening and a little

1873
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 9: bit of why it has been happening and also where,

1874
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,040
Speaker 9: because I think that's worth mentioning, right.

1875
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:37,839
Speaker 11: Yeah, sure, So, just a few days before the Near's

1876
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:42,880
Speaker 11: Eve on December twenty eighth, there was a spontaneous demonstration

1877
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:48,000
Speaker 11: and strike in Tehran's Grand Bazaar, which is basically the

1878
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:52,679
Speaker 11: center of Iran's trade and one of the most important

1879
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:54,920
Speaker 11: backbones of the Islamic.

1880
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:55,799
Speaker 8: Regime or revolution.

1881
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 11: There were strikes inside the Bazzar and so many shop

1882
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 11: person business owners just closed down their businesses and they

1883
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 11: took to the streets and inside the shopping centers and

1884
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:11,360
Speaker 11: they started chanting against the regime and they were basically

1885
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:16,360
Speaker 11: protesting the horrible economic situations and the decrease of the

1886
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 11: Iranian reol or the Iranian currency against the US dollar,

1887
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:25,040
Speaker 11: which was one dollar was equal to one million point

1888
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:30,679
Speaker 11: four hundred thousand Iranian reols. And then these protests quickly

1889
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:34,679
Speaker 11: spread it all over the city in Tehran, and as

1890
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 11: usual this is what happens all the time, the Iranian

1891
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:43,240
Speaker 11: regime forces they started attacking people and trying to control

1892
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:46,240
Speaker 11: the situation, but it somehow got out of their.

1893
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:51,479
Speaker 12: Control and the next days these protests, these strikes spread

1894
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:56,840
Speaker 12: it to other cities, to other major cities from Shira's Mashad, Isfahan,

1895
01:27:57,560 --> 01:27:59,800
Speaker 12: Tabriz and many other cities.

1896
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:01,599
Speaker 8: Got in involved. But in the.

1897
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 11: Early January, around January five to six and seven, there

1898
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:12,799
Speaker 11: were major protests in cities like Malikshahi in Ilan Province

1899
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:16,400
Speaker 11: and other cities in Kermanshah Province, which are basically the

1900
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:21,080
Speaker 11: Kurdish provinces in western Iran. What is really unique about

1901
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:25,559
Speaker 11: this is that usually when when protests happened across Iran,

1902
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:28,360
Speaker 11: or when there is something happening, the Kurdish regions are

1903
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:32,680
Speaker 11: the first to react, But this time the Kurdish regions,

1904
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 11: like if I want to say, the West Azerbaijan Province

1905
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 11: and the San and Dutch Province, they were not really

1906
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:42,920
Speaker 11: involved because a lot of people were saying that in

1907
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 11: the previous movements, especially in twenty twenty two, we gave

1908
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 11: too much. There were too many victims here. But the

1909
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 11: center was silent. I mean Tehran and Shiras and these

1910
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:56,280
Speaker 11: major Iranian cities, So a lot of people didn't really

1911
01:28:56,640 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 11: come out and there was nothing happening. And at the

1912
01:28:59,080 --> 01:29:02,559
Speaker 11: same time, this is my personal opinion, I think because

1913
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:05,599
Speaker 11: there was also a heavy snowfall in Kurdish regions and

1914
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:08,760
Speaker 11: it was really cold, and I think a lot of people.

1915
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:10,120
Speaker 8: Just didn't want to go out.

1916
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:15,559
Speaker 11: Yeah, So this was happening in Malikshahi and other cities

1917
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 11: in Elam and Kermanshah Province until I think it was

1918
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:24,120
Speaker 11: January fifth that there was a really really big demonstration

1919
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 11: in Malikshahi. And it's a small city, but I can

1920
01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:29,879
Speaker 11: say majority of the people were out on the streets

1921
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:33,519
Speaker 11: and then the Iranian region forces started shooting at people

1922
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 11: and they injured and killed a lot of people. And

1923
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:38,519
Speaker 11: the hospital in that city that in that small city

1924
01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:42,240
Speaker 11: was full and they had no space anymore. So the

1925
01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:46,200
Speaker 11: people took the injured protesters to the center or the

1926
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:49,400
Speaker 11: capital of the province in Ilam City, to the Imam

1927
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 11: Romani Hospital. What happened in this hospital was that there

1928
01:29:54,120 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 11: were so many people in front of the hospital, like

1929
01:29:56,560 --> 01:30:00,800
Speaker 11: families and relatives of the victims, and then after a

1930
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:05,040
Speaker 11: few hours, the Iranian regime forces started attacking the hospital.

1931
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:07,639
Speaker 11: There were so many videos and footage that came out,

1932
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 11: and we also posted it on hangout and all over

1933
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:14,680
Speaker 11: the internet that the regime forces were basically surrounding the

1934
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:18,280
Speaker 11: whole building and then they started shooting tear gases inside

1935
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 11: the hospital. And then there was a video that came

1936
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:25,599
Speaker 11: out that these regime forces were trying to get inside

1937
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:29,240
Speaker 11: the hospital and arrest or kidnap all the injured people

1938
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:31,840
Speaker 11: or if there was a dead body or something, and

1939
01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:35,519
Speaker 11: then there was some sort of resistance from the medical staff,

1940
01:30:35,880 --> 01:30:41,200
Speaker 11: and then they started beating the medical staff. And then

1941
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:45,559
Speaker 11: a few days later we also posted about it that

1942
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:49,120
Speaker 11: some of these medical stuff in that hospital were also arrested.

1943
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:53,040
Speaker 11: The same thing was also happening in a few other cities,

1944
01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:56,000
Speaker 11: but this was very specific and it got very viral

1945
01:30:56,479 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 11: on social media and a lot of people talked about it.

1946
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:03,639
Speaker 11: But at the same time, there were massive protests taking

1947
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:08,880
Speaker 11: place in Tehran and other major cities, which like I

1948
01:31:08,920 --> 01:31:11,280
Speaker 11: am twenty eight years old and I think I've never

1949
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:13,599
Speaker 11: seen such thing happening in Iran.

1950
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:19,600
Speaker 8: It was really extraordinary. So while these things were happening.

1951
01:31:19,439 --> 01:31:22,000
Speaker 11: There were also a lot of calls from people in

1952
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 11: Kurdistan that they were calling on Kurdish parties to do something,

1953
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 11: to say something. So on January sixth seven, Kurdish parties

1954
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 11: from Iran they had a meeting and they announced a

1955
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 11: call for a general strike in Kurdistan for all over Iran.

1956
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:45,880
Speaker 11: So on Thursday, January eighth, over forty cities across Kurdistan

1957
01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:48,760
Speaker 11: they went on a strike which was really big, and

1958
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:52,960
Speaker 11: it wasn't really discussed or talked about on major media,

1959
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:56,840
Speaker 11: and it was somehow ignored while it was a really

1960
01:31:56,880 --> 01:32:01,560
Speaker 11: big action that took place there and usual after the

1961
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:05,360
Speaker 11: strikes in Curtison, this is something that's happening for years.

1962
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:09,280
Speaker 11: People take to the streets and protests during the night.

1963
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 11: It happened in a few cities and there were some

1964
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:18,400
Speaker 11: people injured and also killed and then it's been over

1965
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 11: one hundred and twenty four hours right now as we're

1966
01:32:21,439 --> 01:32:24,559
Speaker 11: talking now that there is no internet connection in Iran

1967
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:29,599
Speaker 11: and even the normal lines don't work. You cannot call

1968
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:33,759
Speaker 11: anyone from outside of Iran. However, there are some people

1969
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:37,559
Speaker 11: who have access to the Starlink Internet and some a

1970
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:40,920
Speaker 11: few people that have access to I don't know, some

1971
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 11: sort of strong VPNs that work for a few minutes

1972
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:48,519
Speaker 11: and then they disconnect. And at the same time, I

1973
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 11: have contact to two people who have been using the

1974
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:57,519
Speaker 11: SIM cards or the Internet from Iraq or Turkey. They

1975
01:32:57,560 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 11: are living on the border regions, but they also have

1976
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:04,200
Speaker 11: a limited access. So this is what's happening right now.

1977
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:08,200
Speaker 11: And as we were talking about this, this blackout in

1978
01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 11: Iran has caused a lot of confusion, a lot of

1979
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:18,400
Speaker 11: horror that the world doesn't know what's happening exactly right now.

1980
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 11: After the blackout, there were a few videos and footage

1981
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:27,360
Speaker 11: that came out that were published by major activists or

1982
01:33:27,439 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 11: journalists like ali Joan Mardy and so many others that

1983
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:33,719
Speaker 11: they received these videos I don't know, from the Internet

1984
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 11: from Starlink, and you can see in these videos that

1985
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:41,559
Speaker 11: in a place called Carrizac. It's near Tehran. It's where

1986
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:47,080
Speaker 11: the Tehran's Forcenic Medical Center is located. You can see

1987
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 11: in these videos that countless of bodies, maybe hundreds or

1988
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 11: maybe thousands of bodies are just on the ground. They're

1989
01:33:55,080 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 11: in bodybags and desperate family members, relatives, all troum ties,

1990
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 11: they are looking for their loved ones, and it's just

1991
01:34:04,640 --> 01:34:06,360
Speaker 11: like it's so unbelievable.

1992
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 8: It's like movies.

1993
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:12,960
Speaker 11: And apparently the regime forces have machine gunned all these people. Jesus,

1994
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 11: and right now, because of the blackout, we really don't

1995
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:21,639
Speaker 11: know how many people are exactly killed, how many people

1996
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:26,479
Speaker 11: are injured, how many people are arrested, or these things.

1997
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:28,360
Speaker 11: You know, we don't know the exact numbers, and it

1998
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:32,320
Speaker 11: makes things so hard. But today, a few hours ago,

1999
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 11: there was a report from Iran International that stated that

2000
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:41,240
Speaker 11: over twelve thousand people have been killed, but this also

2001
01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:44,880
Speaker 11: is not fully confirmed because they just got these things

2002
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:48,960
Speaker 11: through some sources. And then at the same time, CBS

2003
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:54,200
Speaker 11: News also published a report and said that between twelve

2004
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 11: thousand to twenty thousand people have been killed, but again

2005
01:34:57,680 --> 01:35:00,920
Speaker 11: this is not really fully confirmed or terrified because there

2006
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:05,599
Speaker 11: is no information coming out that much. At the same time,

2007
01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:10,160
Speaker 11: we also got reports from Kurdistan that in the city

2008
01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:15,240
Speaker 11: of Kermanshah, these regime forces were taking the dead bodies

2009
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 11: with bosses. We don't know how many, but we know

2010
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:22,559
Speaker 11: that they were taking these bodies with bosses like we

2011
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 11: don't know how many hundreds. And from this footage that

2012
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:31,080
Speaker 11: you can also see that the regime is taking all

2013
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 11: these bodies with containers like with talks all over the

2014
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:39,400
Speaker 11: city in Tehran and they're bringing it to the center

2015
01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:43,280
Speaker 11: that I mentioned before, and all families are looking for

2016
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:46,800
Speaker 11: their children and their people. At the same time, I

2017
01:35:46,840 --> 01:35:51,439
Speaker 11: also got this direct information from someone who is from

2018
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 11: rash In north of Iran. She was traveling from Tehran

2019
01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:58,360
Speaker 11: to Rush and she said that the people have burnt

2020
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:02,280
Speaker 11: down most of them and also the banks and other

2021
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 11: government buildings. Are also footage all over the internet that

2022
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:09,880
Speaker 11: in most of the cities that people have burnt down

2023
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:14,000
Speaker 11: the whole mosques and buildings.

2024
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 8: Belonging to the government.

2025
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:18,120
Speaker 11: And at the same time she also said that in

2026
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:20,719
Speaker 11: that city there are so many people that are killed.

2027
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:25,120
Speaker 11: She doesn't know how many or who, but families were

2028
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:28,400
Speaker 11: desperately looking for their loved ones on the streets or anywhere.

2029
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:32,719
Speaker 11: This is basically the same in almost every major city

2030
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:36,240
Speaker 11: or even small city. We don't know exactly, but this

2031
01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:39,519
Speaker 11: is the footage that we got from Tehronily that it

2032
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:40,680
Speaker 11: shows what's going on.

2033
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:42,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's horrific.

2034
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, there are.

2035
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:48,519
Speaker 11: Many many also in our organization, we got a few

2036
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 11: confirmations from these limited access that some of these people

2037
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:56,840
Speaker 11: killed in Tehran are also Kourdish, and obviously from other

2038
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:00,559
Speaker 11: minoritory groups as well. At the same time, there is

2039
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:03,880
Speaker 11: a special case that I want to talk about. There

2040
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:08,160
Speaker 11: is a person like a protester. His name is Erfon Sultani.

2041
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:11,439
Speaker 11: He was arrested a few days ago and he is

2042
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 11: planned to be executed tomorrow. We don't know if they're

2043
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 11: really going to do that or whatever, but this is

2044
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:22,280
Speaker 11: a really big sign that a lot of people are

2045
01:37:22,320 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 11: warning about it, like human rights organizations, and that the

2046
01:37:26,160 --> 01:37:31,720
Speaker 11: regime might carry out mass executions everywhere and just to

2047
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 11: take control over the situation. This is also something that

2048
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:36,639
Speaker 11: might happen.

2049
01:37:37,160 --> 01:37:40,719
Speaker 9: Yeah, so it did execute people after the mini protest,

2050
01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:43,800
Speaker 9: but they didn't do a three day trial right that

2051
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 9: they did here, They had like a show trial first

2052
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:47,519
Speaker 9: that in those interesting series.

2053
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:52,799
Speaker 11: Yeah, they executed dozens of people after gin Imani was killed,

2054
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,080
Speaker 11: and also previously in the previous years.

2055
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:58,360
Speaker 8: So this is like what what's in general is happening.

2056
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:03,280
Speaker 11: And at the same time, like in diaspora in Western countries,

2057
01:38:03,320 --> 01:38:06,679
Speaker 11: there are groups that are on the streets, like people

2058
01:38:06,760 --> 01:38:09,760
Speaker 11: that are calling for solidarity or whatever that can be

2059
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:13,840
Speaker 11: done to help people out inside Iran. Yeah, this is

2060
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:19,080
Speaker 11: like a general overview of what's happening. And as I

2061
01:38:19,120 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 11: said before, because there is no internet connection and if

2062
01:38:22,840 --> 01:38:26,719
Speaker 11: there is, it's very limited, nobody knows what's happening exactly.

2063
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:32,320
Speaker 11: Nobody knows the exact scale of the crimes that are

2064
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:34,240
Speaker 11: taking place right now there.

2065
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:36,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, let's take a little break for advertisements here and

2066
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:49,519
Speaker 9: then we'll come back and talk a little more. Okay,

2067
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:53,439
Speaker 9: and we're back. So if people have seen anything about this,

2068
01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:56,200
Speaker 9: I don't know, if they're on like a X they

2069
01:38:56,240 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 9: would have seen videos of mosk burning and maybe videos

2070
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 9: of the pak like shooting at buildings. You know, these

2071
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:07,559
Speaker 9: are the videos that were kind of widely circulated before

2072
01:39:07,600 --> 01:39:11,439
Speaker 9: people lost access to the Internet. And I think there's

2073
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:17,240
Speaker 9: some idea that like this isn't armed uprising, and I

2074
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:20,640
Speaker 9: think it would be good to explain to people that

2075
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 9: like that there are people clearly the press. There is

2076
01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:27,200
Speaker 9: presence of like armed groups who apposed a regime in Iran, right,

2077
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:30,000
Speaker 9: but they are not necessarily the ones like leading the

2078
01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:33,599
Speaker 9: charge here. So maybe we could explain a little bit

2079
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:38,720
Speaker 9: about both the armed groups who are Kurdish. There are

2080
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 9: some armed groups in Balochistan as well, and like where

2081
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:44,160
Speaker 9: they sit in relevance to these protests.

2082
01:39:44,439 --> 01:39:48,200
Speaker 11: Yeah, so far I can speak for Kurtisan, Yeah, there

2083
01:39:48,200 --> 01:39:53,160
Speaker 11: have I've seen also the footage that pak or the

2084
01:39:53,160 --> 01:39:58,520
Speaker 11: Freedom Party of Kurtisan published social media. I cannot personally

2085
01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:02,840
Speaker 11: confirm that, but but there has always been a call

2086
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 11: for military action against the regime in the previous years,

2087
01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:10,880
Speaker 11: and even before Regina Amini in twenty twenty two, there

2088
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 11: was always some sort of call from the people. But

2089
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:16,840
Speaker 11: right now, as we are seeing, the Kurdish Party is

2090
01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:20,360
Speaker 11: the seven major Kurdish parties from Iran, they are not

2091
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:27,840
Speaker 11: taking really a real military action because there is a

2092
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:31,719
Speaker 11: big fear that if they do this, the regime might

2093
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:37,679
Speaker 11: bomb the cities and kill thousands of civilians with heavy

2094
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:41,680
Speaker 11: weapons and even missiles. So this is also one of

2095
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:44,840
Speaker 11: the main reasons that even the parties have talked about

2096
01:40:44,880 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 11: it many times before when people called for a military sport.

2097
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:52,400
Speaker 11: But of course I can also confirm this that all

2098
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:56,639
Speaker 11: of these parties, all of these organizations have some sort

2099
01:40:56,640 --> 01:41:01,480
Speaker 11: of networks inside Iran that they are they are monitoring

2100
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:05,040
Speaker 11: the situation, they are collecting information and they are like

2101
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:08,880
Speaker 11: connecting people together. And in some cases that I am

2102
01:41:08,920 --> 01:41:11,559
Speaker 11: aware of that happened in my hometown in Urmia in

2103
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:15,920
Speaker 11: twenty twenty two, some of these parties also have been

2104
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:21,080
Speaker 11: able to lead the protests, like to organized protests. So

2105
01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:25,439
Speaker 11: this is for now the presence of these parties. But

2106
01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:28,680
Speaker 11: for Baluchistan, I can also say that I think it

2107
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:33,000
Speaker 11: was in October or November twenty twenty five that all

2108
01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:36,040
Speaker 11: these groups in Baluchistan they had a conference and they

2109
01:41:36,200 --> 01:41:38,679
Speaker 11: announced that they are all united and they're all working

2110
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:42,000
Speaker 11: together under one banner. So they also carried out a

2111
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:47,160
Speaker 11: lot of attacks on the IRGC bases and vehicles in

2112
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:50,120
Speaker 11: their regions in the past few months. But so far

2113
01:41:50,479 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 11: we haven't heard much from them in the past few weeks.

2114
01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:58,040
Speaker 11: We don't know they're not doing anything, or if they

2115
01:41:58,080 --> 01:42:00,040
Speaker 11: are doing anything, it's not on the inter.

2116
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, or it's published yet. Yeah.

2117
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:07,719
Speaker 11: This is the situation right now with the with these groups.

2118
01:42:07,760 --> 01:42:12,200
Speaker 11: But at the same time groups or parties actually like Pijac,

2119
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:17,080
Speaker 11: they also have warned that this was like, if I

2120
01:42:17,120 --> 01:42:20,360
Speaker 11: want to say, quote on quote, don't play with fire.

2121
01:42:20,120 --> 01:42:25,160
Speaker 11: They were this Ermian regime that they shouldn't play with fire. Yeah,

2122
01:42:25,160 --> 01:42:27,600
Speaker 11: this is a situation right now that's going on with

2123
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:28,719
Speaker 11: the parties as well.

2124
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:32,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, and it's very complicated for people who are not

2125
01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 9: right familiar. I think like maybe we should take a

2126
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:38,960
Speaker 9: step back even further and just explain I guess the

2127
01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:42,640
Speaker 9: concept of it ran as like a contiguous empire might

2128
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:45,200
Speaker 9: be a good way to see it, right, with different

2129
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:49,680
Speaker 9: ethnic groups currently under the control of one state, Can

2130
01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:51,479
Speaker 9: you just explain that for people if they if they're

2131
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:54,640
Speaker 9: not familiar it, because I think in the US, like

2132
01:42:54,760 --> 01:42:57,560
Speaker 9: Persian identity and Iranian identity by people who are not

2133
01:42:57,640 --> 01:43:00,639
Speaker 9: familiar with it are conflated, right, But if you could

2134
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:03,280
Speaker 9: explain the different nations that exist within the state, that

2135
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:04,400
Speaker 9: might help people.

2136
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:09,879
Speaker 11: Yeah, Like Iran as a geography is a very diverse country.

2137
01:43:10,640 --> 01:43:14,760
Speaker 11: So basically the Persians or as they call themselves Iranians,

2138
01:43:14,840 --> 01:43:18,600
Speaker 11: are the dominant group. They are the majority, but we

2139
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:23,640
Speaker 11: also have the Osari Turkish people who are the second majority,

2140
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:27,040
Speaker 11: and then we have the Kurds, we have the Baluchis.

2141
01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:31,720
Speaker 11: Then there are Ahwazi Arabs in the south, and then

2142
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:36,240
Speaker 11: there are Turkmen people, and then there are Thailishis, but

2143
01:43:36,360 --> 01:43:38,920
Speaker 11: their numbers are really small. And at the same time

2144
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:43,120
Speaker 11: there is also the mas and Dharrani or the Gilak

2145
01:43:43,240 --> 01:43:48,280
Speaker 11: people that live in the Caspian Sea coast. There are

2146
01:43:48,320 --> 01:43:52,280
Speaker 11: also a different ethnic group. They have a different linguistic background,

2147
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:56,719
Speaker 11: but because of the Iranian state policies of one hundred years,

2148
01:43:57,040 --> 01:44:01,040
Speaker 11: majority of them are assimilated and no longer carry that

2149
01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:07,080
Speaker 11: cultural heritage or identity. But in Kurdistan, in Baluchistan, in Ahwas,

2150
01:44:07,120 --> 01:44:10,320
Speaker 11: in Azerbaijan, it's it's really different, and also in the

2151
01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:13,920
Speaker 11: Turkument regions. Basically this is this is what Iran looks like.

2152
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:17,639
Speaker 11: Of course, there are other small minorities like Armenians, even

2153
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:22,920
Speaker 11: Georgians that migrated to like hundreds of years ago. There

2154
01:44:22,920 --> 01:44:27,920
Speaker 11: are also several religious groups like the Shia Muslims are

2155
01:44:27,960 --> 01:44:33,160
Speaker 11: the majority, which Persians and Azari Turks are basically the

2156
01:44:33,200 --> 01:44:38,080
Speaker 11: followers of this religion, and then there are Sunni Sunni

2157
01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:41,720
Speaker 11: Muslims who are like majority of them are Baluchis and

2158
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:45,519
Speaker 11: Kurds and Awazi Arabs or other groups. And then we

2159
01:44:45,640 --> 01:44:50,600
Speaker 11: have several other groups from Jews, Christians and also the Yarsanis,

2160
01:44:50,600 --> 01:44:54,759
Speaker 11: which is a Kurdish religious minority, and they are about

2161
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:58,720
Speaker 11: one million to two million people. Yeah, this is what

2162
01:44:58,760 --> 01:44:59,640
Speaker 11: Iran looks like.

2163
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:02,360
Speaker 9: Yes, yeah, and I think people can can be easy

2164
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:04,280
Speaker 9: for them to just see it as like Shia Muslim

2165
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:06,960
Speaker 9: Persian modelith right, Yeah.

2166
01:45:06,760 --> 01:45:08,639
Speaker 11: But I also want to add a little bit more

2167
01:45:08,680 --> 01:45:14,040
Speaker 11: of how this works. So because the Iranians or the

2168
01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:17,920
Speaker 11: Persians are the majority, they own the state. The entire

2169
01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:22,960
Speaker 11: identity is evolving around them. And because of this, during

2170
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:26,080
Speaker 11: the past one hundred and fifty one hundred years, there

2171
01:45:26,120 --> 01:45:30,760
Speaker 11: has been a policy of assimilation in every region in

2172
01:45:31,080 --> 01:45:34,160
Speaker 11: what's called Iran right now, for example, if I want

2173
01:45:34,200 --> 01:45:37,439
Speaker 11: to talk about the language right now, the only official

2174
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:41,240
Speaker 11: language is Persian, and in the past one hundred years,

2175
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:45,640
Speaker 11: this language has not just been a language of communication,

2176
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:49,240
Speaker 11: it has been a language of oppression and assimilation. And

2177
01:45:49,720 --> 01:45:53,120
Speaker 11: there are many regions in Iran that were For example,

2178
01:45:53,280 --> 01:45:55,800
Speaker 11: if I want to talk about Kurtison, there are many

2179
01:45:55,840 --> 01:45:59,800
Speaker 11: regions in Kermanshah and Elam provinces and other regions that

2180
01:46:00,240 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 11: used to be fully Kurdish and they used to speak

2181
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:06,000
Speaker 11: Kurdish just a few decades ago, but now they are

2182
01:46:06,040 --> 01:46:11,280
Speaker 11: completely assimilated. The same policy was also followed strictly but

2183
01:46:11,439 --> 01:46:14,880
Speaker 11: heavily in in Turkey and also in Iraq and also

2184
01:46:14,920 --> 01:46:15,519
Speaker 11: in Syria.

2185
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:15,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2186
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:19,240
Speaker 11: So this is how this has been working in the

2187
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:24,120
Speaker 11: past century, and how all these ethnic groups with different

2188
01:46:24,240 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 11: languages and cultural backgrounds and identities have been forced to

2189
01:46:29,400 --> 01:46:35,599
Speaker 11: accept an Iranian identity that evolves that turns around the

2190
01:46:35,720 --> 01:46:39,040
Speaker 11: Persian identity and Persian language and history.

2191
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:39,800
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2192
01:46:39,840 --> 01:46:43,439
Speaker 11: So this is also like a general overview of the

2193
01:46:44,040 --> 01:46:45,559
Speaker 11: oppression if I want to.

2194
01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:48,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it's pretty the right way. I think

2195
01:46:48,080 --> 01:46:50,280
Speaker 9: people who have listened to our coverage of ME and

2196
01:46:50,400 --> 01:46:53,360
Speaker 9: MA will be familiar or like, I mean, this is

2197
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:56,320
Speaker 9: happening in countersplaces, right, This is this is why British

2198
01:46:56,360 --> 01:46:58,880
Speaker 9: people will speak English now, yeah, right, this is this

2199
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:02,680
Speaker 9: is how sort of channel empire works. I wonder like

2200
01:47:02,920 --> 01:47:05,960
Speaker 9: we should talk about the possibilities and to an extent,

2201
01:47:06,240 --> 01:47:10,679
Speaker 9: the demands here, right, Because in the US it seems

2202
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:14,120
Speaker 9: to be that there is a binary choice or that

2203
01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:18,439
Speaker 9: it's presented as a binary choice between the current state

2204
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:20,880
Speaker 9: in Iran and a monarchy, and it doesn't seem to

2205
01:47:20,920 --> 01:47:23,759
Speaker 9: be an option for self governance, right for Iranian people

2206
01:47:23,840 --> 01:47:26,840
Speaker 9: to have democracy, to have liberty, and that's evidently not

2207
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:28,840
Speaker 9: the case, right, Like when you have this many people

2208
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:33,200
Speaker 9: in the streets, that's how democracy works. But let's talk

2209
01:47:33,240 --> 01:47:36,760
Speaker 9: about the sort of the demands and then the possibilities

2210
01:47:36,760 --> 01:47:40,400
Speaker 9: of just being co opted and turned into another type

2211
01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:40,800
Speaker 9: of state.

2212
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:47,560
Speaker 11: So here in these days or basically in the past decades,

2213
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:53,480
Speaker 11: the main demand of people, all different ethnic groups and

2214
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:57,719
Speaker 11: in the geography of Iran has always been a regime change.

2215
01:47:58,040 --> 01:48:01,439
Speaker 11: They want just regime gone. Yeah, this is the first

2216
01:48:01,439 --> 01:48:04,840
Speaker 11: thing that everybody wants. At the same time, there are

2217
01:48:05,240 --> 01:48:08,719
Speaker 11: other possibilities that could be there. One of the things

2218
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:12,920
Speaker 11: that when you look at these ethnic groups and their

2219
01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:16,880
Speaker 11: organizations and the people, you can see that also most

2220
01:48:16,920 --> 01:48:23,120
Speaker 11: of them want some sort of federalism or autonomy or

2221
01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:27,960
Speaker 11: self governance. At the same time, this idea of federalism

2222
01:48:28,160 --> 01:48:34,080
Speaker 11: and self governance or self determination is nothing that let's

2223
01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:38,200
Speaker 11: say that the dominant group would accept because they don't

2224
01:48:38,280 --> 01:48:42,639
Speaker 11: understand it. Because for them, I wouldn't say all of them,

2225
01:48:42,680 --> 01:48:45,720
Speaker 11: because I can we cannot generalize everyone. But when you

2226
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:50,920
Speaker 11: look at it, the dominant group sees Iran as an entity.

2227
01:48:51,080 --> 01:48:56,320
Speaker 11: That's that's not the verse. It's just Iran and everybody's Iranian,

2228
01:48:56,600 --> 01:49:00,360
Speaker 11: just like the way Turkey, you know, or the Turmh

2229
01:49:00,439 --> 01:49:04,280
Speaker 11: government sees everything everybody's Turkish. But in Iran they also

2230
01:49:04,280 --> 01:49:08,400
Speaker 11: say everybody's Iranian. We will have an election, we will

2231
01:49:08,479 --> 01:49:11,559
Speaker 11: choose a president, we will have a parliament, and that's it.

2232
01:49:12,120 --> 01:49:17,240
Speaker 11: That's what is also being let's say offered. But at

2233
01:49:17,240 --> 01:49:21,080
Speaker 11: the same time, there is also a call for monarchy.

2234
01:49:21,160 --> 01:49:24,360
Speaker 11: But this is also something that not majority of people,

2235
01:49:24,439 --> 01:49:28,679
Speaker 11: even Persians, majority of them don't want monarchy back because

2236
01:49:28,720 --> 01:49:32,760
Speaker 11: there is a huge discussion between people that here we

2237
01:49:32,840 --> 01:49:36,360
Speaker 11: are fighting against a dictatorship, why would we bring back

2238
01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:41,719
Speaker 11: another dictatorship. Overall, I can say that the minority groups,

2239
01:49:42,400 --> 01:49:47,000
Speaker 11: majority of them, for now, I would say, like if

2240
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:52,000
Speaker 11: the regime is going to be changed, they want self governance.

2241
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:55,160
Speaker 11: But maybe in the future also independence. We don't know

2242
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:58,040
Speaker 11: that this is something complicated to talk about, but for

2243
01:49:58,160 --> 01:50:01,960
Speaker 11: now this is what minority groups. But in the Persian community,

2244
01:50:02,520 --> 01:50:06,839
Speaker 11: some of them want to have like a republican system

2245
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:10,160
Speaker 11: or whatever. But some of them also want to have

2246
01:50:10,280 --> 01:50:14,040
Speaker 11: monarchy back. And there are also other groups who reject

2247
01:50:14,160 --> 01:50:18,200
Speaker 11: both Republicans and also like monarchists, and they want to

2248
01:50:18,240 --> 01:50:23,280
Speaker 11: have more diverse and more open system for the future.

2249
01:50:23,680 --> 01:50:26,960
Speaker 11: But again this is something that we cannot say how

2250
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:30,280
Speaker 11: it's going to be proceeded because we don't know how

2251
01:50:30,280 --> 01:50:33,120
Speaker 11: the situation is going to be and how these opposition

2252
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:36,720
Speaker 11: groups are going to work together in the future. Are

2253
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:39,559
Speaker 11: they gonna start a civil war or are they going

2254
01:50:39,640 --> 01:50:42,720
Speaker 11: to sit down together and find a solution. This is

2255
01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:46,559
Speaker 11: all depends on how the regime falls and when, and

2256
01:50:46,920 --> 01:50:51,880
Speaker 11: the destruction of this regime is the biggest priority right now.

2257
01:50:52,160 --> 01:50:54,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I mean we could see a situation very

2258
01:50:54,360 --> 01:50:57,320
Speaker 9: much like the one that's happening and folding right now

2259
01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:59,880
Speaker 9: in Western Kurdishtwan, and folding later in Iran if theyre

2260
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:03,320
Speaker 9: falls right, which unfortunate is something else we have to

2261
01:51:03,320 --> 01:51:06,200
Speaker 9: talk about at the time, but very terrible things happening

2262
01:51:06,240 --> 01:51:19,360
Speaker 9: there too. Because you know, most of our listeners are

2263
01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:22,280
Speaker 9: in America. The way that people may have engaged with

2264
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:26,559
Speaker 9: this is through Donald Trump's posting on truth Social where

2265
01:51:27,040 --> 01:51:31,519
Speaker 9: he has said that help is coming recently, Like, let's

2266
01:51:32,120 --> 01:51:35,920
Speaker 9: talk about what US intervention means, like, especially in the

2267
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:39,840
Speaker 9: context of a like the US having intervened all over

2268
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:41,880
Speaker 9: the Middle East, and what that has meant and be

2269
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:47,720
Speaker 9: Like the US's recent national security strategy, which suggests that

2270
01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:50,439
Speaker 9: basically they don't care about the region and they don't

2271
01:51:50,439 --> 01:51:53,519
Speaker 9: want to be involved in the region. Let's talk about

2272
01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:55,479
Speaker 9: what that means and why it might not be the

2273
01:51:55,479 --> 01:51:56,840
Speaker 9: panas here people think it is.

2274
01:51:57,479 --> 01:52:01,120
Speaker 11: Yeah, So in the past few weeks, Trump has.

2275
01:52:00,960 --> 01:52:02,040
Speaker 8: Said a lot of things.

2276
01:52:02,439 --> 01:52:04,559
Speaker 11: In the first few days, he came out and said

2277
01:52:04,680 --> 01:52:08,160
Speaker 11: that if the regime is going to kill civilians, we're

2278
01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:09,799
Speaker 11: going to do this, and that we're going to punish

2279
01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:10,320
Speaker 11: the regime.

2280
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:11,840
Speaker 8: And then I.

2281
01:52:11,760 --> 01:52:14,120
Speaker 11: Think it was an interview or he was on TV,

2282
01:52:14,200 --> 01:52:17,760
Speaker 11: I don't exactly remember, but he said something that all

2283
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:20,479
Speaker 11: the people that were killed, we don't know if the

2284
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:23,799
Speaker 11: regime killed them. Maybe they just were killed in the crowd,

2285
01:52:23,960 --> 01:52:25,600
Speaker 11: like there were like thousands of people in.

2286
01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:28,839
Speaker 13: The really yeah, like a crush. They were crushed. And

2287
01:52:29,120 --> 01:52:32,400
Speaker 13: this is so unbelievable. He's making these comments and then

2288
01:52:32,479 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 13: he's just threatening the regime all over again. And just

2289
01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:39,720
Speaker 13: a few hours ago, as you mentioned, he said that

2290
01:52:39,960 --> 01:52:43,599
Speaker 13: the help is coming, and he's asking people to keep

2291
01:52:43,680 --> 01:52:45,800
Speaker 13: fighting and keep protesting and.

2292
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:46,360
Speaker 8: Things like that.

2293
01:52:46,760 --> 01:52:51,160
Speaker 11: However, we should also, like regarding this, we should talk

2294
01:52:51,160 --> 01:52:55,519
Speaker 11: about what people also want from Trump. Yeah, this has

2295
01:52:55,600 --> 01:52:58,200
Speaker 11: been like something that a lot of people, again this

2296
01:52:58,280 --> 01:53:01,200
Speaker 11: is not the majority, A lot of people have been

2297
01:53:01,280 --> 01:53:05,240
Speaker 11: calling on him or basically on America or something to

2298
01:53:05,320 --> 01:53:08,200
Speaker 11: do an action against the regime, to do something against

2299
01:53:08,200 --> 01:53:11,240
Speaker 11: the regime or damage the regime so that people can

2300
01:53:11,320 --> 01:53:14,400
Speaker 11: get rid of it. And right now, I saw some

2301
01:53:14,479 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 11: screenshots from people who were able to get access to

2302
01:53:19,320 --> 01:53:22,519
Speaker 11: the internet for a few moments. I saw one there

2303
01:53:22,600 --> 01:53:26,839
Speaker 11: was shared on the internet that a woman from Tehran

2304
01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:30,360
Speaker 11: was saying that they are killing everyone. I don't know

2305
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:32,680
Speaker 11: where my children are. One of them is nineteen and

2306
01:53:32,720 --> 01:53:36,120
Speaker 11: the other one is twenty three. She was just saying, please,

2307
01:53:36,280 --> 01:53:38,880
Speaker 11: please be our voice and just tell them to attack,

2308
01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:42,040
Speaker 11: tell Trump to help. So this is also something that

2309
01:53:42,080 --> 01:53:48,000
Speaker 11: there is a call for attacking Iran and destroying the regime.

2310
01:53:48,360 --> 01:53:52,280
Speaker 11: But again we don't know if Trump is really gonna

2311
01:53:52,560 --> 01:53:55,439
Speaker 11: do this or not. There is also like threats coming

2312
01:53:55,479 --> 01:54:00,879
Speaker 11: from Europe as well in UK. But again, as you mentioned,

2313
01:54:01,040 --> 01:54:04,800
Speaker 11: if these attacks happen. We don't is it going to

2314
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:08,400
Speaker 11: be something like Iraq or Afghanistan or other places, or

2315
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:11,519
Speaker 11: is it gonna really help the people of Iran, the

2316
01:54:11,560 --> 01:54:14,800
Speaker 11: people inside around to get rid of the regime, which

2317
01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:18,320
Speaker 11: is also really hard to understand because Trump hasn't been

2318
01:54:18,400 --> 01:54:22,120
Speaker 11: really clear about all these things. On one side, he

2319
01:54:22,280 --> 01:54:25,920
Speaker 11: was also asked if he has any talks or connections

2320
01:54:25,960 --> 01:54:30,320
Speaker 11: with the so called Prince Razapa Levi, and he said, no,

2321
01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:33,400
Speaker 11: he's a good guy, but I don't want to talk

2322
01:54:33,480 --> 01:54:36,120
Speaker 11: to him. But then now you can see that on

2323
01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:41,200
Speaker 11: Fox News, like all the Trump affiliated or pro Trump media,

2324
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:44,720
Speaker 11: they are promoting this guy all the time. And at

2325
01:54:44,720 --> 01:54:48,520
Speaker 11: the same time, Rizzo was also on TV and he

2326
01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:52,120
Speaker 11: was on CBS and he said that he's directly in

2327
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:56,280
Speaker 11: touch with Trump and administration. So we don't know like

2328
01:54:56,480 --> 01:55:00,440
Speaker 11: what exactly, I mean, it's so hard to some what

2329
01:55:00,520 --> 01:55:04,280
Speaker 11: exactly the US is going to do. Yeah, they also

2330
01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:08,320
Speaker 11: announced that we're going to put more like twenty five

2331
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:12,080
Speaker 11: percent tariff on countries who work with Iran or trade

2332
01:55:12,080 --> 01:55:15,320
Speaker 11: with Iran, And then the European Parliament also announced that

2333
01:55:15,320 --> 01:55:18,480
Speaker 11: we're going to ban all Iranian diplomats from entering the

2334
01:55:18,480 --> 01:55:19,680
Speaker 11: European Parliament.

2335
01:55:20,360 --> 01:55:22,840
Speaker 9: Right, not made to begin with, all.

2336
01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:25,640
Speaker 11: These comments that are coming out, they are so vague,

2337
01:55:25,640 --> 01:55:28,560
Speaker 11: and at the same time there are calls from Germany,

2338
01:55:28,640 --> 01:55:31,480
Speaker 11: France and I think Australia too that they were calling

2339
01:55:31,760 --> 01:55:34,800
Speaker 11: on the citizens that are in Iran, like tourists or whatever,

2340
01:55:35,080 --> 01:55:39,320
Speaker 11: to immediately leave Iran. Yeah, this is also something that

2341
01:55:39,680 --> 01:55:42,680
Speaker 11: we don't know, like Trump is not somebody that you

2342
01:55:42,720 --> 01:55:43,520
Speaker 11: could trust.

2343
01:55:43,960 --> 01:55:45,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, ask people.

2344
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:48,440
Speaker 11: And at the same time, sorry, this is also important.

2345
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:53,560
Speaker 11: There was also some news that the Iranian authorities in

2346
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:57,720
Speaker 11: the Foreign ministry were trying or they contacted some people

2347
01:55:57,760 --> 01:56:03,120
Speaker 11: from Trump administration for negotiations, but then Trump said that

2348
01:56:04,040 --> 01:56:06,720
Speaker 11: we will not negotiate anything.

2349
01:56:07,520 --> 01:56:09,040
Speaker 8: So this is all like all.

2350
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:12,640
Speaker 11: These contradictions that Trump is just talking about, and he's

2351
01:56:12,720 --> 01:56:15,440
Speaker 11: denying that the regime is killing people and people are

2352
01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:17,839
Speaker 11: just being killed because it's too crowded.

2353
01:56:18,920 --> 01:56:22,800
Speaker 9: And then you see Harminly like tweeting that everyone out

2354
01:56:22,800 --> 01:56:24,840
Speaker 9: in the street is a Trump supporter, right, which is

2355
01:56:24,920 --> 01:56:28,640
Speaker 9: like that's useful to him, that narrative is useful to him,

2356
01:56:28,640 --> 01:56:32,200
Speaker 9: that these are American imperialists or American whatever puppets.

2357
01:56:32,440 --> 01:56:37,920
Speaker 11: Yeah, of course that has been the regime's behavior forever. Yeah,

2358
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:43,200
Speaker 11: whenever something happens, they immediately blame it on America, Israel.

2359
01:56:43,520 --> 01:56:47,360
Speaker 11: I don't know UK, but it's good that you mentioned

2360
01:56:47,560 --> 01:56:50,640
Speaker 11: what company was saying. In the first few days, he

2361
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:54,360
Speaker 11: said that, yeah, we hear you the people in bazaar,

2362
01:56:54,520 --> 01:56:58,120
Speaker 11: and yeah we hear you, sorry that this is going on,

2363
01:56:58,360 --> 01:57:01,840
Speaker 11: and things like that. But then he immediately said that

2364
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:05,200
Speaker 11: the people who are protesting, they are destroying everything and

2365
01:57:05,640 --> 01:57:09,160
Speaker 11: we will deal with them in the harshest way. And

2366
01:57:09,200 --> 01:57:15,040
Speaker 11: then the president of Iran and he also came out

2367
01:57:15,080 --> 01:57:17,560
Speaker 11: and he said almost the same thing, and then he

2368
01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:21,400
Speaker 11: started threatening people. And a few days after that, the

2369
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:24,680
Speaker 11: head of the judiciary, the Iranian judiciary came out and

2370
01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:28,560
Speaker 11: said that like in a very very aggressive language. He

2371
01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:31,800
Speaker 11: said that we will deal with you in the worst

2372
01:57:31,800 --> 01:57:35,600
Speaker 11: ways possible, we will destroy you, and things like that.

2373
01:57:35,680 --> 01:57:38,839
Speaker 11: It's he posted a lot of texts on his Twitter account.

2374
01:57:39,680 --> 01:57:40,560
Speaker 8: His name is Mosci.

2375
01:57:41,880 --> 01:57:46,240
Speaker 11: So yeah, there is also like a huge online fightings

2376
01:57:46,280 --> 01:57:51,080
Speaker 11: between these politicians and so called leaders that makes the

2377
01:57:51,160 --> 01:57:54,960
Speaker 11: situation even more complicated and hard to understand.

2378
01:57:55,320 --> 01:57:58,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think from a US perspective, like when America

2379
01:57:58,640 --> 01:58:01,880
Speaker 9: invaded Rock Right, they had a partner force in Kurdistan.

2380
01:58:02,440 --> 01:58:04,680
Speaker 9: When when America worked in Syria, they had a partner

2381
01:58:04,720 --> 01:58:08,720
Speaker 9: force again in Western Kurdistan, Like they don't really have

2382
01:58:09,080 --> 01:58:12,280
Speaker 9: that here like this, it's not really a I mean,

2383
01:58:12,680 --> 01:58:16,200
Speaker 9: the payarch is still on the American Foreign Terrorist Organization List.

2384
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:20,400
Speaker 9: It's not like that, like American sort of partner force

2385
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:23,360
Speaker 9: boots on the ground like that that they had these

2386
01:58:23,440 --> 01:58:25,720
Speaker 9: other places to likely what they would do is just

2387
01:58:25,760 --> 01:58:29,120
Speaker 9: bomb stuff. That's kind of the approach it most likely

2388
01:58:29,160 --> 01:58:34,560
Speaker 9: here in it bombing alone is unlikely to remove the regime.

2389
01:58:35,400 --> 01:58:38,680
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think bombing was is definitely not enough of

2390
01:58:39,480 --> 01:58:44,160
Speaker 11: because they bombed. They tried regime hardly last year, but

2391
01:58:44,640 --> 01:58:48,480
Speaker 11: it is there. Of course there was the regime got weaker,

2392
01:58:48,560 --> 01:58:53,520
Speaker 11: like weekend really bad. But at the same time, like

2393
01:58:54,200 --> 01:58:57,360
Speaker 11: I think, if there's gonna be something, and if there's

2394
01:58:57,440 --> 01:58:59,880
Speaker 11: gonna be something like Syria or Iraq, I think the

2395
01:59:00,120 --> 01:59:03,840
Speaker 11: Americans or the American government would possibly work with the

2396
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:06,640
Speaker 11: Kurdish groups even though they are on the so called

2397
01:59:06,720 --> 01:59:11,520
Speaker 11: terror list. Like you know, it happened in Rosova in Syria.

2398
01:59:11,640 --> 01:59:15,560
Speaker 11: That's how they they've been working with the Kurdish groups

2399
01:59:15,640 --> 01:59:18,560
Speaker 11: even though they are related to PKK and pkk is on.

2400
01:59:18,520 --> 01:59:22,600
Speaker 9: The terror or they removed them that they did with HTS, right,

2401
01:59:22,640 --> 01:59:25,320
Speaker 9: and then suddenly these guys they've transformed.

2402
01:59:25,320 --> 01:59:30,000
Speaker 11: Now, yeah, so this could also happen, but we don't

2403
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:34,240
Speaker 11: know because it's been years. It's been decades that the

2404
01:59:34,760 --> 01:59:38,840
Speaker 11: US is always threatening Iran and then something happens, then

2405
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:42,320
Speaker 11: they do nothing and it's just there.

2406
01:59:42,600 --> 01:59:45,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, it reinforces the legitimacy of both states to threaten

2407
01:59:46,000 --> 01:59:48,520
Speaker 9: each other, right, and see each other as adversaries, and

2408
01:59:48,760 --> 01:59:51,000
Speaker 9: to a degree use that for domestic violence against their

2409
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:54,480
Speaker 9: own citizens, right or if you know terrorism stuff. I

2410
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:57,560
Speaker 9: guess finally we should just talk about one other thing

2411
01:59:57,600 --> 02:00:00,680
Speaker 9: that Hamani said, which is like that American and it's

2412
02:00:00,760 --> 02:00:05,080
Speaker 9: really shipping would become legitimate target if you thought the

2413
02:00:05,120 --> 02:00:08,920
Speaker 9: Americans were involved, right, just to explain, this is the

2414
02:00:09,000 --> 02:00:11,200
Speaker 9: possibility to have people if they're not familiar.

2415
02:00:11,680 --> 02:00:14,640
Speaker 11: Well, this is not a new thing, to be honest.

2416
02:00:14,720 --> 02:00:18,680
Speaker 11: They've won this before and in the previous years many times.

2417
02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:22,440
Speaker 11: And there were times that they attacked some US bases,

2418
02:00:22,520 --> 02:00:26,560
Speaker 11: like the one in Iraq it's called Al Assad or

2419
02:00:26,600 --> 02:00:31,040
Speaker 11: something like that. They attacked it a few times I

2420
02:00:31,080 --> 02:00:33,160
Speaker 11: guess in the past few years.

2421
02:00:33,320 --> 02:00:34,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, like This.

2422
02:00:34,600 --> 02:00:41,160
Speaker 11: Is also really complicated because how can I explain the

2423
02:00:41,200 --> 02:00:46,200
Speaker 11: regime always does the threats and it might not do

2424
02:00:46,320 --> 02:00:49,960
Speaker 11: it at all. But at the same time, this is

2425
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:53,680
Speaker 11: also something that I think that if the regime falls

2426
02:00:54,200 --> 02:00:58,480
Speaker 11: and if it's the last moments, they would probably try

2427
02:00:58,520 --> 02:01:02,400
Speaker 11: to do something to damage the region or to damage

2428
02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:05,440
Speaker 11: the people as much as they can, and then they

2429
02:01:05,440 --> 02:01:08,440
Speaker 11: would just give up on everything and just disappear.

2430
02:01:09,240 --> 02:01:10,800
Speaker 8: So they could do that.

2431
02:01:11,400 --> 02:01:14,840
Speaker 11: But if I want to go back to last year,

2432
02:01:15,440 --> 02:01:19,520
Speaker 11: we also need to understand that after the Twelve Day War,

2433
02:01:20,240 --> 02:01:27,160
Speaker 11: Israel also destroyed a massive amount of Iranian military bases

2434
02:01:27,400 --> 02:01:32,160
Speaker 11: and all these buildings and structures, but still nobody truly

2435
02:01:32,240 --> 02:01:36,160
Speaker 11: understand how much has been destroyed. But the Iranian Air

2436
02:01:36,200 --> 02:01:40,640
Speaker 11: force is really really weak right now and apparently completely destroyed,

2437
02:01:41,080 --> 02:01:45,840
Speaker 11: so Iran is not as strong as before. So there

2438
02:01:45,880 --> 02:01:49,080
Speaker 11: could be a possibility that Iran actually doesn't have the

2439
02:01:49,120 --> 02:01:54,280
Speaker 11: capability to attack US Bass across the region anymore. So

2440
02:01:54,880 --> 02:01:58,040
Speaker 11: this could be also a possibility that they're just threatening.

2441
02:01:58,080 --> 02:02:01,760
Speaker 11: They really don't have anything left anymore more. Their trick

2442
02:02:01,800 --> 02:02:04,360
Speaker 11: capabilities are completely down.

2443
02:02:04,440 --> 02:02:07,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, or they'll do that sort of symbolic send a

2444
02:02:07,240 --> 02:02:10,280
Speaker 9: half dozen Shaheed drones and then let the Americans shoot

2445
02:02:10,280 --> 02:02:12,360
Speaker 9: them down and they say, oh, well we tried, or

2446
02:02:12,400 --> 02:02:15,920
Speaker 9: you know, we h we attack them, even though you

2447
02:02:15,960 --> 02:02:18,080
Speaker 9: know most of the time they have hurt a couple

2448
02:02:18,120 --> 02:02:22,760
Speaker 9: of American people with them, but relatively unsuccessful. I wonder

2449
02:02:22,920 --> 02:02:26,080
Speaker 9: like this is obviously a situation that people will want

2450
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:30,040
Speaker 9: to follow. Things are developing very quickly and new good news,

2451
02:02:30,080 --> 02:02:31,880
Speaker 9: good reporting on around. It is very hard to find

2452
02:02:31,880 --> 02:02:35,520
Speaker 9: in America. So where would you suggest people look? Either

2453
02:02:35,760 --> 02:02:38,760
Speaker 9: you know your own stuff or other sources you suggest

2454
02:02:38,840 --> 02:02:40,120
Speaker 9: people should look to.

2455
02:02:40,400 --> 02:02:43,760
Speaker 11: If I want to mention for obviously, I work with

2456
02:02:43,920 --> 02:02:48,480
Speaker 11: a hangout organization. It's a trusted organization. People can follow them.

2457
02:02:48,640 --> 02:02:53,200
Speaker 11: And there is also a journalist called Ali Jawan Mardi.

2458
02:02:53,360 --> 02:02:57,240
Speaker 11: He is a supervisor at Voice of America, Kurdish, Persian

2459
02:02:57,320 --> 02:03:01,600
Speaker 11: and Afghanistan. And these are like for the sources that

2460
02:03:01,680 --> 02:03:05,720
Speaker 11: I personally trust. There are other organizations such as Curtis

2461
02:03:05,800 --> 02:03:10,880
Speaker 11: and Human Rights Network. There is also Iran Rights or

2462
02:03:11,120 --> 02:03:14,800
Speaker 11: Abdur Rahan Buruman Center for Human Rights in Iran. There

2463
02:03:14,840 --> 02:03:20,160
Speaker 11: are several organizations human rights organizations that are constantly reporting

2464
02:03:20,200 --> 02:03:24,440
Speaker 11: and they are trying to reflect what's happening and there

2465
02:03:24,960 --> 02:03:29,080
Speaker 11: I could say majority of them are honest and they're

2466
02:03:29,160 --> 02:03:35,240
Speaker 11: not trying to push for a specific narrative, especially the Palabists,

2467
02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:39,120
Speaker 11: because right now, if you check the media, the international media,

2468
02:03:39,280 --> 02:03:43,520
Speaker 11: the Iranian media such as Iran International or BBC, Persian

2469
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:47,080
Speaker 11: and all of these major medias, even in the US,

2470
02:03:47,120 --> 02:03:51,360
Speaker 11: they are pushing for the monarchists and they are completely

2471
02:03:51,440 --> 02:03:54,520
Speaker 11: ignoring the other groups.

2472
02:03:54,560 --> 02:03:55,920
Speaker 8: Like, for example, the Kurdish people.

2473
02:03:55,960 --> 02:03:59,840
Speaker 11: I said, I mentioned that there was this great and

2474
02:04:00,120 --> 02:04:03,960
Speaker 11: big strike that happened in forty cities. It's it's a

2475
02:04:04,120 --> 02:04:07,960
Speaker 11: very big social act, but barely anyone talked about it.

2476
02:04:08,040 --> 02:04:12,000
Speaker 11: Barely anyone mentioned it. So I think it's for people

2477
02:04:12,040 --> 02:04:16,400
Speaker 11: it's better to follow human rights organizations and do not

2478
02:04:16,520 --> 02:04:19,880
Speaker 11: really fall for the things that some media that are

2479
02:04:19,960 --> 02:04:24,520
Speaker 11: just promoting a specific person, because they're just taking away

2480
02:04:24,520 --> 02:04:24,960
Speaker 11: the truth.

2481
02:04:25,480 --> 02:04:25,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2482
02:04:26,160 --> 02:04:28,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that's a fantastic place to finish up.

2483
02:04:28,960 --> 02:04:31,160
Speaker 9: Thank you so much for joining. Guys, if people want

2484
02:04:31,160 --> 02:04:33,280
Speaker 9: to follow you, do you have any social media or

2485
02:04:33,920 --> 02:04:35,080
Speaker 9: people can find your work.

2486
02:04:35,200 --> 02:04:39,320
Speaker 11: I have my personal page, but it's not really big.

2487
02:04:39,400 --> 02:04:42,040
Speaker 11: I just post some slides recently, and my other page

2488
02:04:42,040 --> 02:04:48,080
Speaker 11: curtis signing people. It got disabled unfortunately I started. I'm

2489
02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:52,240
Speaker 11: just posting like some updates and like slides about the

2490
02:04:52,280 --> 02:04:54,960
Speaker 11: important things that I find. I can also put the

2491
02:04:55,040 --> 02:04:56,400
Speaker 11: links there.

2492
02:04:56,720 --> 02:04:59,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, will include them, believe the podcast, so people can

2493
02:04:59,160 --> 02:04:59,640
Speaker 9: click on them.

2494
02:05:00,160 --> 02:05:00,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2495
02:05:00,440 --> 02:05:03,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us

2496
02:05:03,000 --> 02:05:04,720
Speaker 9: this evening. We really appreciate it.

2497
02:05:05,000 --> 02:05:21,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, thank you very much for having me again. Yeah.

2498
02:05:21,320 --> 02:05:25,000
Speaker 3: Why do you listen to this podcast? It may be

2499
02:05:25,000 --> 02:05:27,880
Speaker 3: because it's a strange comfort in naming the thing that's

2500
02:05:27,960 --> 02:05:32,160
Speaker 3: breathing down our X today. I want to archive this

2501
02:05:32,240 --> 02:05:35,680
Speaker 3: past year of systemic collapse, a pile up of small

2502
02:05:35,720 --> 02:05:38,480
Speaker 3: and large failures we can start to make sense of

2503
02:05:38,520 --> 02:05:42,280
Speaker 3: in retrospect. If we don't look back at our past

2504
02:05:42,560 --> 02:05:46,400
Speaker 3: and the patterns within it, if we don't keep these

2505
02:05:46,800 --> 02:05:49,880
Speaker 3: moments and events in our memory, it's very very easy

2506
02:05:49,920 --> 02:05:54,720
Speaker 3: to get stuck into a perpetually overwhelming present. Welcome to

2507
02:05:54,760 --> 02:05:57,320
Speaker 3: take it up in here. I'm Andrew Sage, the guy

2508
02:05:57,360 --> 02:06:00,680
Speaker 3: behind Andrewism on YouTube, and I'm here with.

2509
02:06:01,200 --> 02:06:04,680
Speaker 9: James Stout, the guy you here all the time this podcast.

2510
02:06:05,560 --> 02:06:10,760
Speaker 3: Welcome to your podcast. Yeah, it's nice.

2511
02:06:11,280 --> 02:06:12,280
Speaker 9: It's nice to do one with you.

2512
02:06:12,840 --> 02:06:14,600
Speaker 3: Are you ready to take a look at some of

2513
02:06:14,600 --> 02:06:16,480
Speaker 3: the stories that shaped twenty five.

2514
02:06:17,440 --> 02:06:19,800
Speaker 9: Yes, it's been a hell of a year. So did

2515
02:06:19,840 --> 02:06:20,360
Speaker 9: she be fun?

2516
02:06:20,920 --> 02:06:23,880
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I don't expect to be exhaustive, but

2517
02:06:24,000 --> 02:06:26,200
Speaker 3: we can, you know, talk about some of the incidents

2518
02:06:26,240 --> 02:06:32,280
Speaker 3: in climate, in politics and technology and geopolitics, and through

2519
02:06:32,280 --> 02:06:34,960
Speaker 3: all that, I want to ask what these stories are

2520
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:40,800
Speaker 3: teaching us as anarchists, activists and just people trying to

2521
02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:45,320
Speaker 3: live in a society. Yeah, so I suppose first we

2522
02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:50,280
Speaker 3: could talk about the climate and infrastructural situations, some of

2523
02:06:50,280 --> 02:06:53,440
Speaker 3: them that took places. Yet it really covered all of

2524
02:06:53,480 --> 02:06:59,800
Speaker 3: the elements. We had heat, flooding, drought, fire storm. According

2525
02:06:59,800 --> 02:07:04,720
Speaker 3: to the World Meteorological Organization, global temperatures in twenty twenty

2526
02:07:04,720 --> 02:07:07,120
Speaker 3: five ranked among the hottest on record.

2527
02:07:07,560 --> 02:07:07,880
Speaker 2: Great.

2528
02:07:08,680 --> 02:07:11,720
Speaker 3: The WMO put twenty twenty five as likely this second

2529
02:07:11,880 --> 02:07:16,000
Speaker 3: or third warmest year in the observational record. So a

2530
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:18,760
Speaker 3: little round of applause for hitting some miles stuarts right.

2531
02:07:19,760 --> 02:07:21,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's good to be winning.

2532
02:07:22,600 --> 02:07:22,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2533
02:07:23,760 --> 02:07:27,720
Speaker 3: Power systems also have been overloaded under air conditioning demand,

2534
02:07:28,120 --> 02:07:31,920
Speaker 3: leading to rolling blackouts in cities and rural areas, schools

2535
02:07:31,960 --> 02:07:35,720
Speaker 3: closing during heat waves, and mortality rising among the elderly

2536
02:07:35,760 --> 02:07:39,640
Speaker 3: and Preherious international agencies have worned that extreme heat is

2537
02:07:39,640 --> 02:07:43,520
Speaker 3: producing double digit crop losses and mass livestock die offs

2538
02:07:43,560 --> 02:07:46,880
Speaker 3: in some cases. Brazil in particular felt that heat in

2539
02:07:46,920 --> 02:07:51,240
Speaker 3: agriculture and supply chains. Staple production and food imports both

2540
02:07:51,280 --> 02:07:53,560
Speaker 3: suffer due to the heat, and those ripples are going

2541
02:07:53,600 --> 02:07:55,440
Speaker 3: to be felt for the rest of us too, because

2542
02:07:55,560 --> 02:07:58,760
Speaker 3: Brazil is a bread basket of sorts. It's a top

2543
02:07:58,840 --> 02:08:03,880
Speaker 3: exporter of tons of really important agricultural products. And the

2544
02:08:03,920 --> 02:08:08,720
Speaker 3: monsoons also arrived with quite a mood this year. South

2545
02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:12,879
Speaker 3: Asia's Turn twenty five rains came very heavy and very persistent.

2546
02:08:13,600 --> 02:08:17,960
Speaker 3: In many places, urban drainage, field neighborhoods became isolated by

2547
02:08:17,960 --> 02:08:23,200
Speaker 3: the waters. Trains and roads were unusable for days. Bangladeshi

2548
02:08:23,200 --> 02:08:25,720
Speaker 3: and parts of India saw a catastrophic flooding that took

2549
02:08:25,800 --> 02:08:30,200
Speaker 3: hundreds of lives and displaced millions. Over in the Horn

2550
02:08:30,280 --> 02:08:34,240
Speaker 3: of Africa, wells ran low, pastures, field and small farmers

2551
02:08:34,240 --> 02:08:37,680
Speaker 3: suffered under the pressures of the drought. Their water distribution

2552
02:08:37,760 --> 02:08:42,400
Speaker 3: systems weren't built to withstand multi year dry spells, and

2553
02:08:42,480 --> 02:08:46,520
Speaker 3: so hunger crisis has ended up escalating, particularly in Somalia.

2554
02:08:47,160 --> 02:08:51,760
Speaker 3: Yeah North America and Europe also had severe wildfires this year.

2555
02:08:52,240 --> 02:08:54,560
Speaker 3: At this point, it's very easy to kind of see

2556
02:08:54,560 --> 02:08:57,840
Speaker 3: them as a new normal, you know. Canada's Turn twenty

2557
02:08:57,840 --> 02:09:01,280
Speaker 3: five season pushed agencies into one of their largest domestic

2558
02:09:01,320 --> 02:09:06,440
Speaker 3: wildfire responses in years. Firefighters were stretched, entire towns had

2559
02:09:06,480 --> 02:09:09,800
Speaker 3: to evacuate, and Southern Europe, in particular Greece and Spain

2560
02:09:10,200 --> 02:09:14,080
Speaker 3: also saw fast moving fires that consumed homes and utilities

2561
02:09:14,480 --> 02:09:19,640
Speaker 3: and left landscapes scorched and infrastructure severely weakened. And then,

2562
02:09:19,680 --> 02:09:22,600
Speaker 3: of course they were the hurricanes. This year, The Caribbean

2563
02:09:22,680 --> 02:09:26,120
Speaker 3: was slammed by Hurricane Melissa, a very slow and powerful

2564
02:09:26,200 --> 02:09:31,160
Speaker 3: storm that devastated Jamaica, Cuba, Haiti and others, tearing up infrastructure,

2565
02:09:31,360 --> 02:09:34,360
Speaker 3: and they even large swaths without power for weeks. The

2566
02:09:34,400 --> 02:09:38,600
Speaker 3: storm's exceptional energy is of course thanks to climacy. And

2567
02:09:38,640 --> 02:09:42,760
Speaker 3: so all these events and I'm definitely leaving outs. I

2568
02:09:42,760 --> 02:09:46,240
Speaker 3: believe they review a few things. For one, I think

2569
02:09:46,240 --> 02:09:50,000
Speaker 3: it's clear that our systems can't handle the new extremes

2570
02:09:50,080 --> 02:09:54,240
Speaker 3: being brought about by climacy. They may have been built

2571
02:09:54,280 --> 02:09:57,240
Speaker 3: for previous normals, but not this. And this is something

2572
02:09:57,320 --> 02:09:59,760
Speaker 3: that climate scientists have been worn and about for some time.

2573
02:10:00,320 --> 02:10:03,840
Speaker 3: You know, electrical grids were sized for incremental loads, so

2574
02:10:03,880 --> 02:10:07,560
Speaker 3: they couldn't handle these simultaneous peak demands. Urbans to a

2575
02:10:07,600 --> 02:10:10,800
Speaker 3: water management was built for a particular volume of water

2576
02:10:10,880 --> 02:10:13,360
Speaker 3: over a particular period of time, they can handle these

2577
02:10:13,480 --> 02:10:17,000
Speaker 3: volumes of water that are pouring down from above. And

2578
02:10:17,120 --> 02:10:21,280
Speaker 3: also water management systems in more arid regions weren't prepared

2579
02:10:21,320 --> 02:10:24,560
Speaker 3: for years of drought, and so the systemic shocks of

2580
02:10:24,600 --> 02:10:30,839
Speaker 3: this year have been very devastating for infrastructure. And unlike

2581
02:10:30,880 --> 02:10:34,240
Speaker 3: their propaganda, which tasted they are necessary for our survival,

2582
02:10:34,280 --> 02:10:38,680
Speaker 3: for our well being. To manage society. State responses to

2583
02:10:38,720 --> 02:10:44,200
Speaker 3: these catastrophes were often reactive and chronically delayed. Government intervention

2584
02:10:44,360 --> 02:10:48,600
Speaker 3: and international aid helped in some places, I'm not denying that,

2585
02:10:49,160 --> 02:10:52,160
Speaker 3: but communities have also often found themselves on their own,

2586
02:10:52,400 --> 02:10:57,200
Speaker 3: having to improvise survival strategies. And of course with every

2587
02:10:57,640 --> 02:11:02,440
Speaker 3: disaster there's an extremely long tale of recovery after the

2588
02:11:02,480 --> 02:11:06,280
Speaker 3: initial crisis has passed. So it may leave the news cycle,

2589
02:11:06,840 --> 02:11:10,040
Speaker 3: but that people still dealing with the consequences and we'll

2590
02:11:10,080 --> 02:11:12,560
Speaker 3: be dealing with it in the year to come. But

2591
02:11:12,640 --> 02:11:15,840
Speaker 3: these disasters continue to show the ingenuity and capability of

2592
02:11:15,960 --> 02:11:21,200
Speaker 3: ordinary people to organize, support, distribute aid, facilitate evacuation, share resources,

2593
02:11:21,280 --> 02:11:24,120
Speaker 3: and so on. So we're not powerless. We don't have

2594
02:11:24,200 --> 02:11:28,080
Speaker 3: to be dependent on slow bureaucracies. Develop resilience. It starts

2595
02:11:28,080 --> 02:11:31,800
Speaker 3: with us as people being proactive, especially you know, I

2596
02:11:31,840 --> 02:11:34,320
Speaker 3: would say, don't wait for the disaster to happen in

2597
02:11:34,360 --> 02:11:37,560
Speaker 3: your area to develop a response plan. Invest your time

2598
02:11:37,600 --> 02:11:42,000
Speaker 3: and energy in this coming year in horizontal capacities, skill training,

2599
02:11:42,240 --> 02:11:46,440
Speaker 3: community drills, share two libraries, seed and food sovereignty projects,

2600
02:11:46,720 --> 02:11:51,440
Speaker 3: local medical knowledge, decentralized energy and water projects. I don't

2601
02:11:51,600 --> 02:11:54,480
Speaker 3: place much on the demands of the state, but they

2602
02:11:54,520 --> 02:11:56,920
Speaker 3: are also sometimes granted to may be able to apply

2603
02:11:57,040 --> 02:12:01,040
Speaker 3: for that. Can you know, secure some resources in community hands,

2604
02:12:01,680 --> 02:12:05,760
Speaker 3: and of course keep documenting these incidents as they're happening.

2605
02:12:06,200 --> 02:12:08,280
Speaker 3: You know, don't wait for a disaster to hit your

2606
02:12:08,280 --> 02:12:11,040
Speaker 3: area to learn the lessons that other places had to learn,

2607
02:12:11,840 --> 02:12:15,240
Speaker 3: you know, go and see where your vulnerabilities lie un

2608
02:12:15,440 --> 02:12:19,440
Speaker 3: others have done to respond, Train people wh necessary, and

2609
02:12:19,560 --> 02:12:22,160
Speaker 3: just try and keep up to good fight. Would you

2610
02:12:22,160 --> 02:12:26,400
Speaker 3: say there was a particular environmental crisis for natural disaster

2611
02:12:26,480 --> 02:12:27,840
Speaker 3: the year that really stood out to you.

2612
02:12:28,280 --> 02:12:28,920
Speaker 1: I mean to me.

2613
02:12:29,120 --> 02:12:31,880
Speaker 9: I think the ones that I just because they're personally

2614
02:12:31,920 --> 02:12:35,400
Speaker 9: related to places I've been were the earthquake in Memma,

2615
02:12:35,840 --> 02:12:39,800
Speaker 9: right where we saw not only people die as a

2616
02:12:39,800 --> 02:12:43,400
Speaker 9: result of natural disaster, but people die as a result

2617
02:12:43,560 --> 02:12:47,840
Speaker 9: of the state considering it's desire to keep people in

2618
02:12:47,880 --> 02:12:50,680
Speaker 9: mem r away from the world more important than their lives, right,

2619
02:12:50,760 --> 02:12:53,520
Speaker 9: like the state choosing not to allow search and rescue

2620
02:12:53,560 --> 02:12:57,800
Speaker 9: teams from France, for example, to enter and instead like

2621
02:12:58,240 --> 02:13:00,160
Speaker 9: you know folks I know who are fighting and the

2622
02:13:00,240 --> 02:13:03,280
Speaker 9: revolution in the Ammar, like laying down their arms and

2623
02:13:04,200 --> 02:13:07,480
Speaker 9: trying to work out how to pull collapse buildings apart

2624
02:13:07,560 --> 02:13:11,160
Speaker 9: before the people in them died exactly. I think that

2625
02:13:11,200 --> 02:13:14,040
Speaker 9: it really was like the poly crisis and then the

2626
02:13:14,320 --> 02:13:17,880
Speaker 9: flooding of indigenous communities in Alaska, right, the coastal communities

2627
02:13:18,920 --> 02:13:21,360
Speaker 9: that we saw like a month or so ago, And

2628
02:13:21,400 --> 02:13:24,640
Speaker 9: that one hit me particularly hard because like these people

2629
02:13:24,680 --> 02:13:28,640
Speaker 9: have been screaming for a decade that climate change has come.

2630
02:13:28,840 --> 02:13:32,400
Speaker 9: It's not coming, it's come right like the like the

2631
02:13:32,520 --> 02:13:34,160
Speaker 9: end is not nigh for them, the end is here.

2632
02:13:34,200 --> 02:13:37,440
Speaker 9: The ways of life are being destroyed by climate change,

2633
02:13:37,720 --> 02:13:41,920
Speaker 9: and the whole communities got wiped out right just before winter,

2634
02:13:42,000 --> 02:13:44,000
Speaker 9: and in a place which has one of the hardest

2635
02:13:44,000 --> 02:13:47,200
Speaker 9: winters on Earth. All their food caches, right, because these

2636
02:13:47,200 --> 02:13:49,920
Speaker 9: are people who tend to to fish for a lot

2637
02:13:49,960 --> 02:13:54,120
Speaker 9: of food, so they cash food they don't go to

2638
02:13:54,160 --> 02:13:57,960
Speaker 9: the store, were also wiped out. Like it's just one

2639
02:13:58,000 --> 02:14:02,200
Speaker 9: of those examples of like one can't be prepared enough

2640
02:14:02,920 --> 02:14:05,080
Speaker 9: to deal with things and one can't control, right, And

2641
02:14:05,080 --> 02:14:07,640
Speaker 9: one of the things that we can't control is climate change,

2642
02:14:07,640 --> 02:14:08,600
Speaker 9: and it's coming.

2643
02:14:08,320 --> 02:14:10,520
Speaker 3: For all of us, but yeah, it's coming for some

2644
02:14:10,560 --> 02:14:11,280
Speaker 3: people foost.

2645
02:14:11,680 --> 02:14:14,360
Speaker 9: Yeah, and it's always going to be indigenous and more

2646
02:14:14,400 --> 02:14:17,280
Speaker 9: marginalized people, right whose plate is ignored. Like people can

2647
02:14:17,320 --> 02:14:20,760
Speaker 9: say climate change isn't real because they have the relative

2648
02:14:20,800 --> 02:14:24,720
Speaker 9: privilege of not having their homes destroyed. And like, rebuilding

2649
02:14:24,720 --> 02:14:28,000
Speaker 9: those communities will be very, very hard because the only

2650
02:14:28,040 --> 02:14:29,680
Speaker 9: way to get there is on a tiny little plane

2651
02:14:29,760 --> 02:14:32,760
Speaker 9: or a boat, and everything they've got there is taking

2652
02:14:32,800 --> 02:14:36,680
Speaker 9: generations to build and it's all gone. Yeah, So those

2653
02:14:36,720 --> 02:14:38,440
Speaker 9: two really struck me.

2654
02:14:39,520 --> 02:14:41,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I take ways from what you've shared there,

2655
02:14:41,960 --> 02:14:45,560
Speaker 3: as the state will often get in the way, Yes,

2656
02:14:45,840 --> 02:14:49,160
Speaker 3: of our survival will well be in Yeah, and that

2657
02:14:50,160 --> 02:14:53,240
Speaker 3: you know, the crisis is here and it's already hitting people,

2658
02:14:54,000 --> 02:14:56,280
Speaker 3: and just the people are being hit right now, are

2659
02:14:56,280 --> 02:15:00,560
Speaker 3: the ones designated as sacrificial arms? Yeah, in a sense

2660
02:15:00,600 --> 02:15:05,200
Speaker 3: for the continued pursuit of economic growth and progress.

2661
02:15:05,720 --> 02:15:17,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2662
02:15:17,640 --> 02:15:23,600
Speaker 3: Two twenty five also saw an accelerated political coming of age.

2663
02:15:24,160 --> 02:15:27,280
Speaker 3: You know, gen Z has not been all teenagers for

2664
02:15:27,280 --> 02:15:31,040
Speaker 3: a very long time now, it's been mostly adults or

2665
02:15:31,320 --> 02:15:33,600
Speaker 3: soon to be mostly adults at this point, depending on

2666
02:15:33,600 --> 02:15:36,960
Speaker 3: where you draw the line. And that generation our my

2667
02:15:37,080 --> 02:15:42,000
Speaker 3: generation has shown up in the numbers for the past

2668
02:15:42,040 --> 02:15:45,880
Speaker 3: few years, but particularly this year, inspiring millions. You know,

2669
02:15:45,960 --> 02:15:48,840
Speaker 3: gen Z became a very visible political force in the

2670
02:15:48,880 --> 02:15:57,120
Speaker 3: headlines across very different geographies. Madagascar, Morocco, Kenya, Nepal, Peru,

2671
02:15:57,440 --> 02:16:02,160
Speaker 3: and Mexico all had uprisings driven by a mix of

2672
02:16:02,320 --> 02:16:06,280
Speaker 3: grievances rather be corruption, the cost of live in, lack

2673
02:16:06,320 --> 02:16:10,080
Speaker 3: of services, violent policing, and a feeling that all institutions

2674
02:16:10,120 --> 02:16:13,680
Speaker 3: had nothing to offer. Now, these movements were not a monolith,

2675
02:16:14,200 --> 02:16:16,880
Speaker 3: you know, but they did have some common templates. You know.

2676
02:16:16,920 --> 02:16:21,440
Speaker 3: They organized digitally on platforms like discord or telegram, and

2677
02:16:21,840 --> 02:16:25,120
Speaker 3: they mobilized very quickly, a lot faster than states were

2678
02:16:25,160 --> 02:16:28,440
Speaker 3: originally able to keep up with. In Madagascar, the youth

2679
02:16:28,480 --> 02:16:32,440
Speaker 3: had mobilized during water, power cuts and broader corruption, which

2680
02:16:32,480 --> 02:16:35,760
Speaker 3: eventually toppled the rule in government and triggered military moves

2681
02:16:35,800 --> 02:16:38,160
Speaker 3: in the form of a kulita. But it doesn't seem

2682
02:16:38,240 --> 02:16:41,320
Speaker 3: so far that anything fruitful, stable or lasting has come

2683
02:16:41,360 --> 02:16:44,560
Speaker 3: out of their cause quite yet. Right now Madagascar is

2684
02:16:44,600 --> 02:16:47,560
Speaker 3: a military kernel for president, so it remains we see

2685
02:16:47,560 --> 02:16:53,560
Speaker 3: in what that leadership brings. In Morocco, the movement gen

2686
02:16:53,680 --> 02:16:57,400
Speaker 3: Z two on two organized demand better education and healthcare,

2687
02:16:57,720 --> 02:17:01,000
Speaker 3: decent housing, and jobs, and we're eventually met with state

2688
02:17:01,040 --> 02:17:04,800
Speaker 3: pushback in the form of arrests and infiltrations. Now they

2689
02:17:04,840 --> 02:17:07,520
Speaker 3: eventually won some concessions from the government in the form

2690
02:17:07,560 --> 02:17:10,920
Speaker 3: of greater funding in this sectors demanded and draft bills

2691
02:17:10,920 --> 02:17:14,360
Speaker 3: that incentivize youth participation in the official channels of power.

2692
02:17:14,840 --> 02:17:16,800
Speaker 3: But it remains we've seen how long that will quell

2693
02:17:16,840 --> 02:17:20,039
Speaker 3: the tide, because it seems to me at least that

2694
02:17:20,120 --> 02:17:23,600
Speaker 3: this is the classic tactic of, you know, incorporating a

2695
02:17:23,720 --> 02:17:28,000
Speaker 3: radical movement into the machinations of the state to temper

2696
02:17:28,080 --> 02:17:32,840
Speaker 3: its energy. Yeah, in Kenya, we saw mass mobilization against

2697
02:17:32,879 --> 02:17:36,440
Speaker 3: police brutality that was met with yet more police brutality

2698
02:17:36,600 --> 02:17:40,720
Speaker 3: and extra judicial killings, now numbering in the sixties. With

2699
02:17:40,840 --> 02:17:44,560
Speaker 3: a very clear aim for the suppression of descent. So far,

2700
02:17:45,440 --> 02:17:48,720
Speaker 3: none of their goals have really been recognized or achieved

2701
02:17:49,080 --> 02:17:52,440
Speaker 3: as a movement, and it seems as though they've similed

2702
02:17:52,480 --> 02:17:55,480
Speaker 3: down due to the share violence that they are faced

2703
02:17:55,520 --> 02:17:59,840
Speaker 3: in response. In Nepal, perhaps the most famous of these

2704
02:18:00,040 --> 02:18:04,480
Speaker 3: worries for this year, the students led uprisings topple the

2705
02:18:04,520 --> 02:18:08,560
Speaker 3: corrupt government and forced concessions with an election coming up

2706
02:18:08,720 --> 02:18:12,320
Speaker 3: next year twenty twenty six. But again, what comes next

2707
02:18:13,400 --> 02:18:16,480
Speaker 3: is yet to be seen. Whether it be lasting, empowering,

2708
02:18:16,560 --> 02:18:21,120
Speaker 3: or sustainable is an open question. It's another uprising where

2709
02:18:21,160 --> 02:18:24,720
Speaker 3: in my view, the fundamental institutions have not been overcome

2710
02:18:24,879 --> 02:18:30,160
Speaker 3: and thus their goals will not be achieved mediately. But

2711
02:18:30,879 --> 02:18:35,200
Speaker 3: I think every movement, every generation has their place for

2712
02:18:35,440 --> 02:18:39,920
Speaker 3: political development and figuring out some of these shortcomings of

2713
02:18:39,959 --> 02:18:45,360
Speaker 3: these approaches. But I think because of how tight the

2714
02:18:45,440 --> 02:18:49,680
Speaker 3: timeline is for the need for like radically drastic action

2715
02:18:50,360 --> 02:18:52,160
Speaker 3: for the sake of the planet and for the people

2716
02:18:52,160 --> 02:18:57,080
Speaker 3: on it, I really wish that these lessons were learned

2717
02:18:57,080 --> 02:18:59,400
Speaker 3: a bit quicker. You know that we didn't have to

2718
02:18:59,440 --> 02:19:03,560
Speaker 3: go through these seam cycles of you know, missteps again

2719
02:19:03,600 --> 02:19:07,440
Speaker 3: and again with movements. Yeah, you're right, what it means

2720
02:19:07,440 --> 02:19:11,160
Speaker 3: to be seen whether that sort of political development can

2721
02:19:11,200 --> 02:19:14,200
Speaker 3: be accelerated as the crisis accelerates.

2722
02:19:14,600 --> 02:19:19,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, Like I feel for the youth, like like now

2723
02:19:19,640 --> 02:19:23,199
Speaker 9: these revolutions, a sense of urgency is so high, right

2724
02:19:23,280 --> 02:19:28,000
Speaker 9: because the system, Like, if you're a millennial, I guess

2725
02:19:28,200 --> 02:19:31,400
Speaker 9: you grew up. If you're me, maybe I'm saying here,

2726
02:19:31,600 --> 02:19:33,400
Speaker 9: like really you grew up. You know, you were told

2727
02:19:33,400 --> 02:19:35,080
Speaker 9: like things will always get better and you will work

2728
02:19:35,120 --> 02:19:37,480
Speaker 9: hard and like just like your folks, you will buy

2729
02:19:37,480 --> 02:19:39,720
Speaker 9: a house in the house will get more valuable and

2730
02:19:39,720 --> 02:19:41,480
Speaker 9: that will be nice and blah blah blah. Right if

2731
02:19:41,520 --> 02:19:44,560
Speaker 9: you live in in this sort of the colonial core

2732
02:19:45,360 --> 02:19:47,400
Speaker 9: and that didn't work out for most of us, but

2733
02:19:47,480 --> 02:19:51,240
Speaker 9: for for gen Z folks, it's like the town that

2734
02:19:51,280 --> 02:19:54,560
Speaker 9: you live and will continue to exist is up for debate, right,

2735
02:19:54,720 --> 02:19:58,280
Speaker 9: Like the climate that you were born in will be

2736
02:19:59,040 --> 02:20:03,000
Speaker 9: completely stink from the one that you have children raise

2737
02:20:03,120 --> 02:20:07,360
Speaker 9: children in. Probably the urgency of the need for change

2738
02:20:07,400 --> 02:20:10,720
Speaker 9: is so much with young people today, right, Like, you know, yeah,

2739
02:20:10,720 --> 02:20:14,160
Speaker 9: the economy that my generation was promised doesn't exist for us,

2740
02:20:14,600 --> 02:20:18,320
Speaker 9: but the planet that gen Z was promised isn't going

2741
02:20:18,400 --> 02:20:22,240
Speaker 9: to exist for them. And the information system is so

2742
02:20:22,520 --> 02:20:26,080
Speaker 9: fucked for young people today, right, and so captured by

2743
02:20:26,080 --> 02:20:30,320
Speaker 9: corporate and state interests. And yet despite that, or maybe

2744
02:20:30,400 --> 02:20:32,640
Speaker 9: because of that, we've seen some of the most beautiful

2745
02:20:32,680 --> 02:20:35,880
Speaker 9: revolutions that I can recall, Right, Like, when I speak

2746
02:20:35,879 --> 02:20:39,560
Speaker 9: to gen Z folks in Myanmar, they approach the revolution

2747
02:20:39,720 --> 02:20:42,240
Speaker 9: in a distinct way from the way that like the

2748
02:20:42,320 --> 02:20:45,760
Speaker 9: revolutions I'm familiar with from the nineties and two thousands did,

2749
02:20:45,840 --> 02:20:50,480
Speaker 9: but also just from like a very human desire for

2750
02:20:50,560 --> 02:20:53,720
Speaker 9: a better world, for equality, for a beautiful life. And

2751
02:20:54,240 --> 02:20:57,480
Speaker 9: so like, I'm very hopeful at the same time as

2752
02:20:57,879 --> 02:21:01,320
Speaker 9: I feel for people of the younger generation.

2753
02:21:02,520 --> 02:21:04,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think there's there's a lot of cause

2754
02:21:04,600 --> 02:21:07,880
Speaker 3: for hope that such numbers can be mobilized. But I

2755
02:21:07,879 --> 02:21:11,160
Speaker 3: would love to see those numbers get mobilized in the

2756
02:21:11,160 --> 02:21:14,160
Speaker 3: countries that we've been talking about a more radical be

2757
02:21:14,480 --> 02:21:19,400
Speaker 3: than simply bringing demands to the state or or changing

2758
02:21:19,440 --> 02:21:21,039
Speaker 3: up one government for another.

2759
02:21:21,280 --> 02:21:23,920
Speaker 9: You know, yeah, yeah, I mean in the case of

2760
02:21:23,959 --> 02:21:27,480
Speaker 9: me and Marlika. That's certainly like that is the case, right,

2761
02:21:27,520 --> 02:21:30,360
Speaker 9: Like they're not thinking about changing one running party for another,

2762
02:21:30,400 --> 02:21:35,240
Speaker 9: They're thinking about changing the way governance works, right, They're

2763
02:21:35,240 --> 02:21:38,520
Speaker 9: like bringing democracy to people. To be clear, there isn't

2764
02:21:38,520 --> 02:21:42,039
Speaker 9: really a coherent set of exact demands for the revolution,

2765
02:21:42,200 --> 02:21:43,880
Speaker 9: but many of the young people they speak to are

2766
02:21:43,879 --> 02:21:46,480
Speaker 9: looking at how can we create a model that doesn't

2767
02:21:46,560 --> 02:21:49,600
Speaker 9: allow for a genocide to happen against one group, that

2768
02:21:49,680 --> 02:21:53,000
Speaker 9: doesn't allow for the military to walk into one building

2769
02:21:53,040 --> 02:21:56,000
Speaker 9: and take away everyone's future. And I think that's very.

2770
02:21:55,920 --> 02:22:01,800
Speaker 3: Beautiful exactly, that's that's inspiring. Yeah, yeah, I think asking

2771
02:22:01,879 --> 02:22:05,640
Speaker 3: those questions and asking even more questions, I think as

2772
02:22:05,760 --> 02:22:08,720
Speaker 3: how this generation is going to get to, you know,

2773
02:22:08,879 --> 02:22:16,760
Speaker 3: certain conclusions about whether this current project should continue. Yeah,

2774
02:22:17,000 --> 02:22:22,400
Speaker 3: this current state project, this current capitalist project, this current

2775
02:22:22,440 --> 02:22:26,680
Speaker 3: patriarchal project. The more questions get asked, the more answers

2776
02:22:26,720 --> 02:22:29,480
Speaker 3: get illuminated, and the closes, I think we can get

2777
02:22:29,920 --> 02:22:33,880
Speaker 3: to a viable and liberatory alternative.

2778
02:22:34,840 --> 02:22:37,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, definitely the case. And I think some of

2779
02:22:37,600 --> 02:22:40,440
Speaker 9: this is just like some of it we have to

2780
02:22:40,520 --> 02:22:43,920
Speaker 9: work out on the way and that's okay. Like I

2781
02:22:43,920 --> 02:22:46,959
Speaker 9: think the twentieth century, the idea of a revolution was

2782
02:22:47,040 --> 02:22:49,960
Speaker 9: like this violent seizure of state power, often by a

2783
02:22:50,040 --> 02:22:54,440
Speaker 9: vanguard group with a very specific project that they were

2784
02:22:54,440 --> 02:22:57,800
Speaker 9: looking to implement. Right, And in the twenty first century,

2785
02:22:57,840 --> 02:23:01,640
Speaker 9: we haven't seen that, or the time, we have seen

2786
02:23:01,680 --> 02:23:03,880
Speaker 9: a lot more of like this is bad and it

2787
02:23:03,920 --> 02:23:06,160
Speaker 9: has to change, and we're going to make it change,

2788
02:23:06,200 --> 02:23:09,160
Speaker 9: and we'll work out which direction we're moving as we go.

2789
02:23:09,720 --> 02:23:13,879
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, then that's latently ideological, I'd.

2790
02:23:13,680 --> 02:23:15,959
Speaker 9: Say, yeah, And like I think that's a good thing

2791
02:23:16,080 --> 02:23:18,840
Speaker 9: because what we've seen I mean, I mean, we have

2792
02:23:18,959 --> 02:23:21,560
Speaker 9: seen like this, this idea that revolutions have to stick

2793
02:23:21,560 --> 02:23:25,879
Speaker 9: to a strict pathway have horrific consequences for humanity. Right,

2794
02:23:25,959 --> 02:23:28,400
Speaker 9: Like I'm thinking of the Gulag, you know, like the

2795
02:23:28,600 --> 02:23:34,240
Speaker 9: thinking of the strict ideology which allowed the Soviet Union

2796
02:23:34,280 --> 02:23:37,400
Speaker 9: to become this place where where you created, like you know,

2797
02:23:37,440 --> 02:23:40,080
Speaker 9: the things that all were were about in nineteen eighty four. Right,

2798
02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:42,720
Speaker 9: it is better that a revolutionarized on what the people

2799
02:23:42,840 --> 02:23:45,119
Speaker 9: want as they continue to move through it, rather than

2800
02:23:45,160 --> 02:23:48,320
Speaker 9: saying we will tell the people what they need and

2801
02:23:48,360 --> 02:23:50,080
Speaker 9: we'll be the one steering the ship here.

2802
02:23:50,600 --> 02:23:53,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that will model is not going to get us

2803
02:23:53,440 --> 02:23:58,480
Speaker 3: all to this NOP so. Honestly, my observation of the

2804
02:23:58,520 --> 02:24:02,080
Speaker 3: sur political shifts of this year has re exposed the

2805
02:24:02,120 --> 02:24:06,879
Speaker 3: flaws of traditional politics and parties, how they've largely sued

2806
02:24:06,920 --> 02:24:11,200
Speaker 3: as gatekeepers to suppress, to absorb and blunt the energy

2807
02:24:11,320 --> 02:24:15,880
Speaker 3: is the massive and show the potential of spontaneous uprisings.

2808
02:24:16,800 --> 02:24:18,760
Speaker 3: But I think this year also show that we cannot

2809
02:24:18,840 --> 02:24:21,560
Speaker 3: keep rising up again and again and again and again,

2810
02:24:22,240 --> 02:24:26,160
Speaker 3: you know, feeding bodies to the brutal police forces and

2811
02:24:26,240 --> 02:24:30,760
Speaker 3: prison systems. You know, for movements to matters beyond these

2812
02:24:30,800 --> 02:24:35,240
Speaker 3: episodes of disruption, I believe they need to develop infrastructure.

2813
02:24:36,280 --> 02:24:40,280
Speaker 3: You know, let's let's let's do something that lasts longer

2814
02:24:40,320 --> 02:24:43,760
Speaker 3: than a headline, and of course the actions that you know,

2815
02:24:44,040 --> 02:24:45,880
Speaker 3: I'm not denying that some of these movements are in

2816
02:24:46,000 --> 02:24:49,640
Speaker 3: eh and building infrastructure. It's just that those sorts of

2817
02:24:49,959 --> 02:24:53,480
Speaker 3: efforts are less likely to make the international use headlines.

2818
02:24:54,520 --> 02:24:57,759
Speaker 3: You know. But I love to see these centralized mobilizations.

2819
02:24:57,959 --> 02:24:59,959
Speaker 3: I just want to see them paid with something more

2820
02:25:00,320 --> 02:25:03,680
Speaker 3: refigurative politics that can sustain them, that can expand the

2821
02:25:03,800 --> 02:25:06,840
Speaker 3: zones of freedom they can tune. They will mentum into

2822
02:25:06,920 --> 02:25:10,520
Speaker 3: lasting change. I will say that I appreciate that these

2823
02:25:10,520 --> 02:25:14,119
Speaker 3: movements have and breazed tactical variety. You know that they

2824
02:25:14,120 --> 02:25:17,840
Speaker 3: have largely understood the need for anonymity. But I don't

2825
02:25:17,879 --> 02:25:21,160
Speaker 3: want them to keep fall into this trap of this

2826
02:25:21,280 --> 02:25:25,280
Speaker 3: sort of dissipation of energy. They get a government concession

2827
02:25:25,320 --> 02:25:29,160
Speaker 3: and they dissipate that there's not a long term ambition,

2828
02:25:30,160 --> 02:25:36,200
Speaker 3: or they're not enough steps being taken to resist infiltration

2829
02:25:36,400 --> 02:25:40,879
Speaker 3: and surveillance through operational security. I think that if that

2830
02:25:41,360 --> 02:25:45,920
Speaker 3: you know, OPSEEC is not present, it's very easy for

2831
02:25:46,520 --> 02:25:49,600
Speaker 3: these movements get disrupted from within. You know, platforms like

2832
02:25:49,640 --> 02:25:52,800
Speaker 3: Discord have already proven themselves to be ops you know,

2833
02:25:52,879 --> 02:25:56,560
Speaker 3: to these kinds of causes. They will willingly sell people out.

2834
02:25:57,160 --> 02:26:01,000
Speaker 3: But I have a lot of hope and say that tentatively,

2835
02:26:01,360 --> 02:26:05,960
Speaker 3: but we can stand up for something that some line

2836
02:26:06,080 --> 02:26:10,160
Speaker 3: can be drawn somewhere. Because even though an uprising like

2837
02:26:10,200 --> 02:26:13,039
Speaker 3: the one in Nepal or Morocco hasn't taken place in

2838
02:26:13,520 --> 02:26:16,320
Speaker 3: Trinidad yet, I mean, we've been under a state of

2839
02:26:16,320 --> 02:26:19,160
Speaker 3: emergency for the entire time that this new government has

2840
02:26:19,160 --> 02:26:22,600
Speaker 3: been in power. I will say that I often in

2841
02:26:22,720 --> 02:26:26,520
Speaker 3: you know, casual conversation here rumbling. So we need to

2842
02:26:26,560 --> 02:26:29,720
Speaker 3: do what Nepal did, you know? We need to do it,

2843
02:26:29,800 --> 02:26:32,840
Speaker 3: proved it. And I think that's the power, the potential

2844
02:26:33,080 --> 02:26:37,600
Speaker 3: of these kind of moments. Even if they don't lead

2845
02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:42,080
Speaker 3: to something lasting in the immediate aftermath, they still save

2846
02:26:42,120 --> 02:26:47,040
Speaker 3: as an inspiration. They still open up the landscape of possibilities.

2847
02:26:47,600 --> 02:26:50,680
Speaker 9: Yeah, what's so Commandente Marcus used to say it was

2848
02:26:50,720 --> 02:26:52,520
Speaker 9: like to open up a pinprick of light in the

2849
02:26:52,520 --> 02:26:57,040
Speaker 9: curtain of darkness exactly. Yeahs to show people what it's possible.

2850
02:26:57,120 --> 02:26:59,600
Speaker 3: That's a perfect expression. I actually never did that quote before.

2851
02:26:59,720 --> 02:27:00,440
Speaker 3: That's good one.

2852
02:27:00,520 --> 02:27:02,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, I used to read a lot of Apia Steps.

2853
02:27:02,520 --> 02:27:05,000
Speaker 9: I think you had some wonderful ways of expressing things.

2854
02:27:05,440 --> 02:27:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, gen Z is not going to save anyone. You know,

2855
02:27:09,640 --> 02:27:12,840
Speaker 3: as a generation, we're just as susceptible to flaws and

2856
02:27:12,920 --> 02:27:16,040
Speaker 3: resurrections as any other. There are those who are invested

2857
02:27:16,080 --> 02:27:19,000
Speaker 3: in welfare and anti corruption, and they are those who

2858
02:27:19,000 --> 02:27:23,280
Speaker 3: are invested in reactionary popularism. But the waves of uprisings

2859
02:27:23,360 --> 02:27:27,040
Speaker 3: I think are mostly positive. And I just hope that

2860
02:27:27,040 --> 02:27:31,760
Speaker 3: that that spark can light a fire and the way

2861
02:27:31,760 --> 02:27:33,360
Speaker 3: that we get that spark to light that fire. So

2862
02:27:33,520 --> 02:27:37,800
Speaker 3: we put fuel in place, fuel like networks, fuel like collectives,

2863
02:27:38,800 --> 02:27:42,080
Speaker 3: unions and so on. Oh when speaking of unions, I

2864
02:27:42,120 --> 02:27:45,920
Speaker 3: forgot to mention this. Ye, India actually had a coalition

2865
02:27:46,080 --> 02:27:50,560
Speaker 3: of major trade unions stagion nationwide protests and strikes this

2866
02:27:50,760 --> 02:27:55,400
Speaker 3: year against the new labor codes. That's cool, So shout

2867
02:27:55,400 --> 02:27:56,200
Speaker 3: out to them as well.

2868
02:27:56,760 --> 02:28:00,280
Speaker 9: Yeah. Yeah, especially in a state which is uh, it's

2869
02:28:00,280 --> 02:28:02,520
Speaker 9: not necessarily know like you will, they will cut down

2870
02:28:02,560 --> 02:28:05,240
Speaker 9: pretty hard on you in the ear if you stand

2871
02:28:05,320 --> 02:28:07,279
Speaker 9: up against the state indeed.

2872
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:09,680
Speaker 3: And so to wrap the section, I think I'll say

2873
02:28:09,680 --> 02:28:14,600
Speaker 3: that twenty twenty five protests show a fraction of our frustration,

2874
02:28:15,320 --> 02:28:18,000
Speaker 3: but they also show that we can't just keep screaming

2875
02:28:18,040 --> 02:28:21,240
Speaker 3: into the void, you know. Yeah, the ruptures that come

2876
02:28:21,280 --> 02:28:24,959
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six and beyond need to start from

2877
02:28:25,000 --> 02:28:29,400
Speaker 3: somewhere other than scratch, if you want to say tech crises. Now,

2878
02:28:29,480 --> 02:28:32,400
Speaker 3: I think as EI continued to boom in twenty twenty five,

2879
02:28:32,920 --> 02:28:37,000
Speaker 3: we saw a massive build out of physical infrastructure, data centers,

2880
02:28:37,040 --> 02:28:42,160
Speaker 3: server farms, water hungry cooling systems, and energy hungry hardware. Yeah,

2881
02:28:42,240 --> 02:28:44,440
Speaker 3: it's very easy to think of the Internet as a cloud,

2882
02:28:44,879 --> 02:28:48,039
Speaker 3: but it's a very physical thing. It demands land, water,

2883
02:28:48,240 --> 02:28:54,400
Speaker 3: and electricity. It strains local communities, It drains local communities

2884
02:28:54,440 --> 02:28:59,760
Speaker 3: of resources. The water use of data centers in particular,

2885
02:29:00,160 --> 02:29:03,640
Speaker 3: can eat up millions of liters of water daily, taken

2886
02:29:03,680 --> 02:29:08,119
Speaker 3: away from households and agricultural needs. In fact, data centers

2887
02:29:08,160 --> 02:29:10,760
Speaker 3: in the US now consume more than four percent of

2888
02:29:10,800 --> 02:29:15,040
Speaker 3: total electricity, with over half still being powered by fossil fuel.

2889
02:29:15,160 --> 02:29:19,520
Speaker 9: Jesus. Yeah, Like how much electricity we use in the US.

2890
02:29:19,520 --> 02:29:21,560
Speaker 9: Like we go hard on electric right, Like.

2891
02:29:22,160 --> 02:29:25,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so four percent is quite a jump from something

2892
02:29:26,000 --> 02:29:31,320
Speaker 3: that basically didn't exist ten years ago, five years ago, exactly. Yeah,

2893
02:29:31,560 --> 02:29:33,760
Speaker 3: And so all this scaling up of AI is pushing

2894
02:29:33,800 --> 02:29:37,440
Speaker 3: us much faster towards the limits of growth. You know.

2895
02:29:37,440 --> 02:29:41,480
Speaker 3: It feels like we are being ruled by accelerationists at times,

2896
02:29:42,240 --> 02:29:44,160
Speaker 3: you know. And all the while we have these tech

2897
02:29:44,200 --> 02:29:47,680
Speaker 3: browers pushing their text savior gospel on us, even though

2898
02:29:47,720 --> 02:29:51,800
Speaker 3: it's very clear that AI is just another vector of extraction, consumption,

2899
02:29:52,360 --> 02:29:56,279
Speaker 3: and inequality. Yeah, there's just another way for the owners

2900
02:29:56,280 --> 02:29:59,560
Speaker 3: of profit to gain greater control of our data and

2901
02:29:59,640 --> 02:30:03,120
Speaker 3: greater surveillance over our lives. What I am proud of

2902
02:30:03,360 --> 02:30:06,120
Speaker 3: is that people continue to speak out against it, to

2903
02:30:06,240 --> 02:30:08,760
Speaker 3: challenge it, to question it, to call it out wherever

2904
02:30:08,800 --> 02:30:13,000
Speaker 3: they see it. There are people who refuse to support

2905
02:30:13,200 --> 02:30:15,960
Speaker 3: you know, YouTube channels that are pushing out AI music

2906
02:30:16,120 --> 02:30:19,160
Speaker 3: or EI visuals or EI scripts, people who refusing to

2907
02:30:19,200 --> 02:30:23,440
Speaker 3: support you know, pages and profiles that have those kinds

2908
02:30:23,440 --> 02:30:26,520
Speaker 3: of things or companies that use those sort of that software.

2909
02:30:27,040 --> 02:30:28,880
Speaker 3: We have to keep that energy up, we have to

2910
02:30:28,959 --> 02:30:31,320
Speaker 3: keep it going, and we're asying to buildings that will

2911
02:30:31,400 --> 02:30:36,800
Speaker 3: increase our ability to operate outside of the AI fueled

2912
02:30:36,920 --> 02:30:41,560
Speaker 3: the corporate overlord Internet that many of us currently exist

2913
02:30:41,720 --> 02:30:47,240
Speaker 3: as pseudo safs within. Yeah, you know, there's a lot

2914
02:30:47,280 --> 02:30:50,360
Speaker 3: of roof open source software integital commands that are out

2915
02:30:50,440 --> 02:30:53,560
Speaker 3: of the hands of corporations that we can venture into.

2916
02:30:54,200 --> 02:30:58,640
Speaker 3: You know, tech is contested ter rain that the tech

2917
02:30:58,760 --> 02:31:02,320
Speaker 3: ordgarchs are currently winning. But that araine is something that

2918
02:31:02,400 --> 02:31:04,720
Speaker 3: we can continue to challenge into the new year.

2919
02:31:05,000 --> 02:31:05,480
Speaker 9: Definitely.

2920
02:31:17,320 --> 02:31:21,680
Speaker 3: But geopolitics in twenty thirty five was a catalogue of

2921
02:31:21,760 --> 02:31:26,600
Speaker 3: catastrophes from continuing was fueled by a cast of properties

2922
02:31:27,040 --> 02:31:31,280
Speaker 3: to straight up genocides. So in Palestini we saw this

2923
02:31:31,360 --> 02:31:36,480
Speaker 3: year repeated rounds of siege, bombardment and cruelty, repeated cease

2924
02:31:36,560 --> 02:31:40,040
Speaker 3: fire violations and the part of Israel, all enabled by

2925
02:31:40,040 --> 02:31:45,480
Speaker 3: America's military support and political cover. To this day, food,

2926
02:31:45,760 --> 02:31:49,520
Speaker 3: water and medical provisions continue to be strained as a

2927
02:31:49,520 --> 02:31:54,800
Speaker 3: result of Israel's genocidal ambitions. In Sudan, the fractures they

2928
02:31:54,840 --> 02:31:59,000
Speaker 3: have only worsened as the bloodshed famously can be seen

2929
02:31:59,000 --> 02:32:04,200
Speaker 3: from space. Millions have been internally displaced, the casualties are

2930
02:32:04,200 --> 02:32:09,280
Speaker 3: currently incalculable, and the fighting between the Sudanese armed forces

2931
02:32:09,320 --> 02:32:13,320
Speaker 3: and the rapid support forces rages on, all supported by

2932
02:32:13,480 --> 02:32:18,120
Speaker 3: regional powers including Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. In

2933
02:32:18,160 --> 02:32:22,320
Speaker 3: the Democratic Republic of the Congo, conflicting armed groups supported

2934
02:32:22,320 --> 02:32:26,199
Speaker 3: by the government of the DRC and the neighboring Rwanda, respectively,

2935
02:32:26,760 --> 02:32:31,640
Speaker 3: have continued attacking communities and the infrastructure, inflicting mass rapes,

2936
02:32:31,920 --> 02:32:35,520
Speaker 3: and engaging in other war crimes, all while funded by

2937
02:32:35,600 --> 02:32:39,599
Speaker 3: mining operations in one of the most resource rich regions

2938
02:32:39,640 --> 02:32:43,880
Speaker 3: in the world. In Yemen, the violence continues for tens

2939
02:32:43,920 --> 02:32:47,360
Speaker 3: of millions as the saudil That coalition, the UAE and

2940
02:32:47,480 --> 02:32:51,320
Speaker 3: Western powers continues to supply arms, logistics and diplomatic cover

2941
02:32:51,720 --> 02:32:55,680
Speaker 3: for the displacement, collapse, and brutality inflicted upon the civilians

2942
02:32:55,720 --> 02:32:59,840
Speaker 3: of the country. In Ukraine, the war with Russia continues

2943
02:32:59,840 --> 02:33:04,520
Speaker 3: to consume resources and lives. In the Caribbean Sea, the

2944
02:33:04,640 --> 02:33:07,360
Speaker 3: US ramped up its violence as it targets and bombs

2945
02:33:07,360 --> 02:33:10,560
Speaker 3: boats and international waters that it alleges are carrying drugs,

2946
02:33:10,879 --> 02:33:13,039
Speaker 3: and appears some gear enough for some kind of operation

2947
02:33:13,440 --> 02:33:18,920
Speaker 3: against Venezuela and Myanmar. Resistant groups continue to fight against

2948
02:33:18,959 --> 02:33:23,439
Speaker 3: the military junta, which continues to receive economic and political

2949
02:33:23,480 --> 02:33:28,000
Speaker 3: cover from neighboring China. Now this isn't exhaustive, so because

2950
02:33:28,040 --> 02:33:30,800
Speaker 3: I know if I missed any of the major stories

2951
02:33:30,840 --> 02:33:32,880
Speaker 3: from this year, there's so many.

2952
02:33:33,760 --> 02:33:36,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's so sad to think about this new drone

2953
02:33:36,120 --> 02:33:39,440
Speaker 9: war that we're starting in Venezuela, right, and we will

2954
02:33:39,440 --> 02:33:43,720
Speaker 9: probably start another one in this at hell soon. You know,

2955
02:33:43,800 --> 02:33:47,240
Speaker 9: it's very easy for those things to seem tangential to

2956
02:33:47,320 --> 02:33:50,560
Speaker 9: our lives. I have experienced what it's like to be

2957
02:33:50,640 --> 02:33:54,000
Speaker 9: in a place where drones are killing people every day.

2958
02:33:54,680 --> 02:33:58,760
Speaker 9: What that does to you, Just like not knowing who's

2959
02:33:58,800 --> 02:34:00,720
Speaker 9: going to get killed tonight, right, woul't be you very

2960
02:34:00,760 --> 02:34:04,160
Speaker 9: unlikely might be might be someone you saw today, might

2961
02:34:04,200 --> 02:34:06,600
Speaker 9: be someone you've ever met. Dozens of people get killed,

2962
02:34:06,680 --> 02:34:09,920
Speaker 9: but thousands of people have to live in with this

2963
02:34:10,080 --> 02:34:12,440
Speaker 9: sense of fear and maybe after a while you get

2964
02:34:12,520 --> 02:34:14,600
Speaker 9: used to it. I don't know, but I don't think

2965
02:34:15,240 --> 02:34:18,560
Speaker 9: we realize like potential of the human joy even though

2966
02:34:18,560 --> 02:34:22,000
Speaker 9: it's not like in this case, not like a ground war, right,

2967
02:34:22,080 --> 02:34:23,920
Speaker 9: like for many people don't see it as a war.

2968
02:34:24,600 --> 02:34:28,120
Speaker 9: The terrible trauma that that causes, not just to the

2969
02:34:28,160 --> 02:34:29,840
Speaker 9: people who are killed in their families, but to so

2970
02:34:29,879 --> 02:34:32,560
Speaker 9: many other people who have to live with the knowledge

2971
02:34:32,600 --> 02:34:35,000
Speaker 9: that like they could be killed in the world wouldn't care.

2972
02:34:35,920 --> 02:34:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that the mental torment and trauma even

2973
02:34:40,240 --> 02:34:45,160
Speaker 3: if you survive, Yeah, something like Palestine or something like Sudan, Yeah,

2974
02:34:45,720 --> 02:34:46,960
Speaker 3: that's going to stay with you for the rest of

2975
02:34:47,000 --> 02:34:50,640
Speaker 3: your life. I don't reverberate in future generations, even generations

2976
02:34:50,640 --> 02:34:54,640
Speaker 3: that they not experience the genocide directly, do not experience

2977
02:34:54,720 --> 02:34:58,039
Speaker 3: the war directly, they're still going to feel that in

2978
02:34:58,040 --> 02:35:01,320
Speaker 3: the every ones in the way that you know, the

2979
02:35:01,360 --> 02:35:04,000
Speaker 3: generations of that experience that interact with them in the

2980
02:35:04,040 --> 02:35:04,960
Speaker 3: stories that they tell.

2981
02:35:05,480 --> 02:35:09,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's yeah, that trauma lives for a long time, right,

2982
02:35:09,480 --> 02:35:13,960
Speaker 9: and trauma creates sometimes a cycle of violence, right, Like

2983
02:35:14,040 --> 02:35:17,760
Speaker 9: it's it's not a good thing. Yeah, But the idea

2984
02:35:17,800 --> 02:35:19,640
Speaker 9: of drone warfare is the idea of that these like

2985
02:35:19,800 --> 02:35:23,440
Speaker 9: clean surgical strikes. That's not how war works, that's not

2986
02:35:23,480 --> 02:35:27,320
Speaker 9: how killing works, that's not how explosive warheads work.

2987
02:35:27,800 --> 02:35:28,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2988
02:35:28,720 --> 02:35:33,200
Speaker 9: I remember in Rajare sat down with a family who

2989
02:35:33,200 --> 02:35:35,920
Speaker 9: had lost their son who had just turned fourteen, and

2990
02:35:36,040 --> 02:35:41,800
Speaker 9: like thinking of the waves of repercussion from that one bomb,

2991
02:35:41,879 --> 02:35:44,520
Speaker 9: and hundreds of bombs fell that year, you know, And

2992
02:35:44,560 --> 02:35:47,760
Speaker 9: that was just in Syria. Thousands of these drone bombs

2993
02:35:47,959 --> 02:35:50,520
Speaker 9: fell all around the world, and for the most part,

2994
02:35:50,520 --> 02:35:53,640
Speaker 9: people didn't remark on it and didn't care. But that's

2995
02:35:53,680 --> 02:35:54,560
Speaker 9: happening more now.

2996
02:35:55,400 --> 02:35:55,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2997
02:35:55,720 --> 02:35:58,880
Speaker 3: I mean it's very very easy to zoom out and

2998
02:35:59,000 --> 02:36:02,879
Speaker 3: just think of the pures statistics, the pure numbers, because

2999
02:36:03,040 --> 02:36:07,040
Speaker 3: when you actually zoom in and even an individual incident

3000
02:36:07,720 --> 02:36:13,000
Speaker 3: that is an entire lifetime affected, multiple lifetimes affected by

3001
02:36:13,040 --> 02:36:17,720
Speaker 3: even one building being leveled or one bullet being fired.

3002
02:36:18,680 --> 02:36:22,039
Speaker 9: Yeah, And I think there's a reason we don't put

3003
02:36:22,080 --> 02:36:24,200
Speaker 9: on war like that, right, Like I try to when

3004
02:36:24,240 --> 02:36:27,440
Speaker 9: I write my stuff, because like, everyone's life is the

3005
02:36:27,480 --> 02:36:31,400
Speaker 9: most valuable thing they have, and every death of the

3006
02:36:31,480 --> 02:36:36,359
Speaker 9: tragedy it's hard on the reporter, like, it's not sustainable.

3007
02:36:36,800 --> 02:36:40,720
Speaker 9: Fox you up and be people wouldn't like wars if

3008
02:36:40,720 --> 02:36:43,440
Speaker 9: we get like you see it to an extent in

3009
02:36:43,480 --> 02:36:48,240
Speaker 9: the way that the European nations talked about World War One,

3010
02:36:49,160 --> 02:36:54,800
Speaker 9: right like, to get a significant number of upper class

3011
02:36:54,879 --> 02:36:57,640
Speaker 9: British people to be opposed to the concept of warfare.

3012
02:36:57,640 --> 02:37:01,119
Speaker 9: It's quite a remarkable in dev right like that those

3013
02:37:01,160 --> 02:37:03,760
Speaker 9: are people who have gone to schools whose sole purpose

3014
02:37:03,879 --> 02:37:06,680
Speaker 9: was to raise them as military officers for empire from

3015
02:37:06,760 --> 02:37:09,800
Speaker 9: the age of five. Yeah, but we saw it after

3016
02:37:09,840 --> 02:37:12,840
Speaker 9: World War One, because the war wasn't abstract, right, it

3017
02:37:12,920 --> 02:37:16,199
Speaker 9: was close by. The people dying weren't a different class

3018
02:37:16,280 --> 02:37:20,600
Speaker 9: or race. They were everyone, and especially young upper class

3019
02:37:20,640 --> 02:37:23,520
Speaker 9: men who became officers, right like. But somehow along the

3020
02:37:23,560 --> 02:37:27,160
Speaker 9: way since then, we've lost that and we've we've convinced

3021
02:37:27,160 --> 02:37:31,600
Speaker 9: ourselves that this is something that like, it'sn't a human tragedy,

3022
02:37:31,640 --> 02:37:33,280
Speaker 9: even if it doesn't involve us.

3023
02:37:33,680 --> 02:37:37,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned in World War One in particular,

3024
02:37:37,320 --> 02:37:42,160
Speaker 3: because I actually sat down to finally watch or quiet

3025
02:37:42,160 --> 02:37:45,360
Speaker 3: in the Western Front. Oh yeah, last night I watched

3026
02:37:45,400 --> 02:37:47,120
Speaker 3: like the first five minutes and I was like, I

3027
02:37:47,120 --> 02:37:48,480
Speaker 3: don't know if I could watch this right now, And

3028
02:37:48,560 --> 02:37:51,000
Speaker 3: we're going to watch something else. Yeah, that's it. And

3029
02:37:51,040 --> 02:37:54,800
Speaker 3: that's a movie, you know, it's not even the real thing.

3030
02:37:55,000 --> 02:37:58,560
Speaker 3: It's a fictional depiction of the occurrence. And I felt

3031
02:37:58,560 --> 02:37:59,360
Speaker 3: like I was there.

3032
02:37:59,720 --> 02:38:01,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I don't like watching those films. I don't

3033
02:38:01,640 --> 02:38:06,440
Speaker 9: watch those films. Gives me bad memories, dreams. But yeah,

3034
02:38:06,480 --> 02:38:10,440
Speaker 9: like I can't understand how we have this ability to

3035
02:38:10,879 --> 02:38:15,000
Speaker 9: we have fucking VR now, right, like surgeons can practice

3036
02:38:15,040 --> 02:38:18,360
Speaker 9: operations in VR. But like in a world where we

3037
02:38:18,440 --> 02:38:22,640
Speaker 9: can have so many experiences, experienced things that we would

3038
02:38:22,680 --> 02:38:27,120
Speaker 9: never experience otherwise, we have inflicted a genocide through starvation

3039
02:38:27,280 --> 02:38:30,480
Speaker 9: on the people of Palestine. Like in a world where

3040
02:38:30,480 --> 02:38:33,320
Speaker 9: we can see and know more about other people's lives

3041
02:38:33,320 --> 02:38:36,480
Speaker 9: than ever, we've done this thing. Like I don't want

3042
02:38:36,480 --> 02:38:38,199
Speaker 9: to harp on the fact that, like It'srael, it's built

3043
02:38:38,200 --> 02:38:40,400
Speaker 9: on the idea of never again, and here they are

3044
02:38:40,440 --> 02:38:44,720
Speaker 9: doing it again, right, But like it's just so sad

3045
02:38:44,800 --> 02:38:47,039
Speaker 9: that like we're in this world where we can know

3046
02:38:47,160 --> 02:38:52,240
Speaker 9: and share more things and yet it's resulted in somehow

3047
02:38:52,560 --> 02:38:55,959
Speaker 9: are still not seeing our common humanity. I mean more

3048
02:38:55,959 --> 02:38:58,640
Speaker 9: people have I guess. Also, Like one thing that has

3049
02:38:58,640 --> 02:39:00,480
Speaker 9: happened this year, in the last two year, is that

3050
02:39:01,080 --> 02:39:04,120
Speaker 9: like when I came here, I would never have believed

3051
02:39:04,520 --> 02:39:08,120
Speaker 9: that you would get thousands of American people out to

3052
02:39:08,240 --> 02:39:12,600
Speaker 9: call for the basic human rights of Palestinian people like

3053
02:39:12,720 --> 02:39:14,440
Speaker 9: it did. It wasn't a thing that American people were

3054
02:39:14,440 --> 02:39:16,840
Speaker 9: aware of. So like that is something there of the

3055
02:39:16,879 --> 02:39:20,119
Speaker 9: last two years, think we have seen solidarity, some of.

3056
02:39:20,080 --> 02:39:21,720
Speaker 3: That's yeah, there has been a shift.

3057
02:39:22,000 --> 02:39:25,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, some of that solidarity I think has been misguided.

3058
02:39:25,840 --> 02:39:29,120
Speaker 3: But I think some of the I guess anti Israel

3059
02:39:29,160 --> 02:39:32,720
Speaker 3: shift has come less from a concern for Palestinians and

3060
02:39:32,760 --> 02:39:36,240
Speaker 3: more so for the sort of you know, we don't

3061
02:39:36,240 --> 02:39:38,879
Speaker 3: want our tax cart dollars they spent, they want it's

3062
02:39:38,840 --> 02:39:43,080
Speaker 3: spent on us. Or it's more of an internally minded

3063
02:39:43,200 --> 02:39:45,120
Speaker 3: sort of America first ideology.

3064
02:39:45,959 --> 02:39:48,640
Speaker 9: Yep, and they're straight up anti Semitic bigotry as well.

3065
02:39:49,000 --> 02:39:51,640
Speaker 3: But there has been that solidarity shift as well.

3066
02:39:52,440 --> 02:39:55,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, Like there has been that, like a global solidarity

3067
02:39:55,840 --> 02:40:00,959
Speaker 9: and like even as a millennial, right, like from the

3068
02:40:01,080 --> 02:40:04,080
Speaker 9: age of thirteen right when I was a kid, when

3069
02:40:04,800 --> 02:40:07,680
Speaker 9: nine to eleven happened, and even I guess the First

3070
02:40:07,680 --> 02:40:10,920
Speaker 9: War in the Persian Gulf. The media project of most

3071
02:40:10,920 --> 02:40:12,800
Speaker 9: of the nations in which I've lived has been to

3072
02:40:12,840 --> 02:40:18,199
Speaker 9: demonize Muslim people, people specifically living in the Middle East, right, yeah.

3073
02:40:18,600 --> 02:40:22,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's more of an a racialized tree than

3074
02:40:22,400 --> 02:40:26,080
Speaker 3: a particularly religious milia tree. I mean, it does take

3075
02:40:26,160 --> 02:40:30,680
Speaker 3: that religious courting, and there are religion specific elements to

3076
02:40:30,720 --> 02:40:33,240
Speaker 3: the bigatory, but it does tend to be more racialized

3077
02:40:33,240 --> 02:40:35,560
Speaker 3: that yeah, because I already know that some people will

3078
02:40:35,560 --> 02:40:38,280
Speaker 3: be like, oh, well, I just don't like Islam as

3079
02:40:38,360 --> 02:40:41,880
Speaker 3: because of its authoritarian and inclinations where the case. Maybe,

3080
02:40:41,920 --> 02:40:46,320
Speaker 3: but it's a bit more than just religious beast bigotry.

3081
02:40:47,560 --> 02:40:50,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's not just a philosophical disagreement, right, Like it

3082
02:40:50,320 --> 02:40:53,360
Speaker 9: took on, like you say, this racial character and so

3083
02:40:53,560 --> 02:40:57,400
Speaker 9: like to see people noting their common humanity, Like I

3084
02:40:57,480 --> 02:40:59,000
Speaker 9: was just talked to someone about this the other day.

3085
02:40:59,080 --> 02:41:03,880
Speaker 9: Be familiar with miss Rachel. Yeah, yeah, Like it is inconceivable.

3086
02:41:03,920 --> 02:41:06,959
Speaker 9: It would have been inconceivable when I was in high

3087
02:41:07,000 --> 02:41:11,800
Speaker 9: school that an American children's entertainer would be like, well,

3088
02:41:11,800 --> 02:41:13,560
Speaker 9: I guess you had the Dixie Chicks, But it's not

3089
02:41:13,600 --> 02:41:18,040
Speaker 9: the same, right, it would be like continually not to

3090
02:41:18,080 --> 02:41:19,440
Speaker 9: take away from what they did. I think they were

3091
02:41:19,520 --> 02:41:22,039
Speaker 9: very brave actually, but you know, to be able to

3092
02:41:22,080 --> 02:41:24,520
Speaker 9: stand up for the lives of young children in Palestine

3093
02:41:25,160 --> 02:41:31,480
Speaker 9: so consistently, Yeah, so vaciferously for so long like that,

3094
02:41:31,480 --> 02:41:33,520
Speaker 9: that's very hot. That gives me, you know, a great

3095
02:41:33,560 --> 02:41:34,320
Speaker 9: sense of hope.

3096
02:41:34,600 --> 02:41:36,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, not really. I think it's an indication of just

3097
02:41:36,760 --> 02:41:39,120
Speaker 3: how much there has been a shift, and of course

3098
02:41:39,160 --> 02:41:43,480
Speaker 3: she has been bullied and targeted relentlessly since, but yeah,

3099
02:41:43,520 --> 02:41:46,800
Speaker 3: you know, it does indicate that people are willing to

3100
02:41:47,480 --> 02:41:49,760
Speaker 3: face that kind of bullying and these that kind of

3101
02:41:50,520 --> 02:41:55,840
Speaker 3: attack that I suppose segment of empire for the sake

3102
02:41:55,840 --> 02:41:56,720
Speaker 3: of stand off. What's right.

3103
02:41:57,360 --> 02:42:01,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, yes, I guess I think it's so it's impressive,

3104
02:42:01,160 --> 02:42:04,080
Speaker 9: right that, like, yeah, people have bullied and attacked her,

3105
02:42:04,160 --> 02:42:06,440
Speaker 9: but like, also she has been so brave and so

3106
02:42:06,520 --> 02:42:08,879
Speaker 9: consistent and not just miss Rachel. To be clear, there

3107
02:42:08,920 --> 02:42:11,360
Speaker 9: are many many other people who've done this and has

3108
02:42:11,440 --> 02:42:14,160
Speaker 9: been able to continue to do that because so many

3109
02:42:14,160 --> 02:42:16,600
Speaker 9: people have been like, no, these are just children, Why

3110
02:42:16,680 --> 02:42:18,840
Speaker 9: the fuck you? Why are you arguing that it's wrong

3111
02:42:18,879 --> 02:42:20,560
Speaker 9: to say we shouldn't kill children. What the fuck is

3112
02:42:20,600 --> 02:42:22,680
Speaker 9: wrong with you? Yet a lot of people showed up

3113
02:42:22,720 --> 02:42:26,280
Speaker 9: against the war in Iraq too, But like, it's good

3114
02:42:26,280 --> 02:42:30,080
Speaker 9: to see that that media project has not succeeded, because

3115
02:42:30,120 --> 02:42:31,920
Speaker 9: it's been two decades in my life that it has

3116
02:42:31,920 --> 02:42:32,880
Speaker 9: been trying to succeed.

3117
02:42:33,280 --> 02:42:36,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that we've been seeing so very familiar

3118
02:42:36,160 --> 02:42:41,960
Speaker 3: dynamics across the jubiscal crises that I've a sort of

3119
02:42:42,040 --> 02:42:47,080
Speaker 3: mentioned there. We have this external patronage of global powers

3120
02:42:47,120 --> 02:42:51,240
Speaker 3: and regional powers that seemed to be sustaining these fights

3121
02:42:51,360 --> 02:42:54,240
Speaker 3: that were in lives over years, because if they wouldn't

3122
02:42:54,280 --> 02:42:58,200
Speaker 3: get in that constant flow of money for weapons and

3123
02:42:58,240 --> 02:43:02,720
Speaker 3: weapons support and military support, these wars will not be

3124
02:43:02,760 --> 02:43:05,800
Speaker 3: able to last as long as they have, you know.

3125
02:43:06,000 --> 02:43:10,200
Speaker 3: But it's these outside actors in Sudan and in Palestine

3126
02:43:10,240 --> 02:43:14,480
Speaker 3: that are supporting the fight and supporting the barrage, supporting

3127
02:43:14,520 --> 02:43:19,520
Speaker 3: the suffering, and not supporting the aid necessary to support people.

3128
02:43:20,240 --> 02:43:22,760
Speaker 3: You know, there's been a very slow and insufficient piece

3129
02:43:22,760 --> 02:43:27,720
Speaker 3: of humanity response due to funding gaps, access constraints, and

3130
02:43:27,760 --> 02:43:30,760
Speaker 3: the politicization of aid. And there are people who have

3131
02:43:30,879 --> 02:43:35,279
Speaker 3: managed to act directly not waiting for any official channels.

3132
02:43:35,320 --> 02:43:37,680
Speaker 3: In the case of the flotilla. Something else that happened

3133
02:43:37,720 --> 02:43:41,400
Speaker 3: this year that I found particularly admirable, but it hasn't

3134
02:43:41,440 --> 02:43:45,199
Speaker 3: been enough so far. It hasn't broken through quite yet,

3135
02:43:45,240 --> 02:43:48,720
Speaker 3: and people are still without much of the necessary aid

3136
02:43:49,440 --> 02:43:53,960
Speaker 3: that will sustain even their survival. We also see that

3137
02:43:54,360 --> 02:43:57,160
Speaker 3: even as these was a ragion in these regions, in

3138
02:43:57,240 --> 02:44:02,680
Speaker 3: many cases the extraction is continuing, particularly in Congo and Sudan. Yeah,

3139
02:44:03,400 --> 02:44:06,240
Speaker 3: I think it's very critical that we can just speak

3140
02:44:06,240 --> 02:44:08,800
Speaker 3: out against these wars as we get into twenty twenty six,

3141
02:44:09,320 --> 02:44:12,000
Speaker 3: where we see them, we document what's happening, We keep

3142
02:44:12,000 --> 02:44:15,880
Speaker 3: a record offline of what's going on independently, because another

3143
02:44:15,879 --> 02:44:18,840
Speaker 3: thing I've noticed this year is how blatantly the news

3144
02:44:18,879 --> 02:44:21,960
Speaker 3: media is showing its colors, you know. And that's where

3145
02:44:22,120 --> 02:44:25,320
Speaker 3: independent media is meant to fill the gaps, even though

3146
02:44:25,360 --> 02:44:28,160
Speaker 3: it may not have as many resources as main industream media,

3147
02:44:28,600 --> 02:44:31,600
Speaker 3: you know, so things like this podcast is Herefore, it's

3148
02:44:31,640 --> 02:44:34,680
Speaker 3: something that I think when the listeners can take responsibility

3149
02:44:35,320 --> 02:44:38,920
Speaker 3: in being part of in gathering information and archiving information,

3150
02:44:39,640 --> 02:44:43,840
Speaker 3: in sharing sources and direct connects so that the information

3151
02:44:43,920 --> 02:44:47,040
Speaker 3: gets out there and so as we wrap up this

3152
02:44:47,120 --> 02:44:51,320
Speaker 3: retrospective for twenty twenty five, two things in particular standout

3153
02:44:51,440 --> 02:44:56,320
Speaker 3: to me. One is that our system is brittle as hell,

3154
02:44:57,480 --> 02:45:02,680
Speaker 3: and two that people are resilient as well, and taken together,

3155
02:45:02,800 --> 02:45:05,080
Speaker 3: I believe it's an indication that we are indeed in

3156
02:45:05,120 --> 02:45:08,640
Speaker 3: a world of transition, and it's still uncertain, and it's

3157
02:45:08,720 --> 02:45:11,400
Speaker 3: as to how it will turn out. The future hasn't

3158
02:45:11,400 --> 02:45:14,560
Speaker 3: been written yet. We don't know. We do have the

3159
02:45:14,600 --> 02:45:17,400
Speaker 3: ability to choose what we do next. So if you

3160
02:45:17,480 --> 02:45:20,960
Speaker 3: look towards a new year, think about something you want

3161
02:45:21,000 --> 02:45:25,039
Speaker 3: to build or strengthen, whether it be a skill, a relationship,

3162
02:45:25,160 --> 02:45:28,520
Speaker 3: a practice, a project of some kind that conserve you

3163
02:45:28,680 --> 02:45:31,760
Speaker 3: and those around you going forward. That's all I have

3164
02:45:31,879 --> 02:45:37,280
Speaker 3: for today. All power to all the people, Happy New Year, Peace.

3165
02:45:51,240 --> 02:45:55,199
Speaker 2: This is it could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly

3166
02:45:55,240 --> 02:45:58,080
Speaker 2: newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world,

3167
02:45:58,080 --> 02:46:00,600
Speaker 2: and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today

3168
02:46:00,600 --> 02:46:04,800
Speaker 2: I'm joined by James Stout, Mia Wong and maybe Sophie Lichterman.

3169
02:46:05,400 --> 02:46:10,000
Speaker 5: Maybe yeah, let's send you first name.

3170
02:46:10,320 --> 02:46:11,320
Speaker 2: I'm always here.

3171
02:46:11,440 --> 02:46:14,600
Speaker 14: I just don't necessarily have anything to add, because you're

3172
02:46:14,600 --> 02:46:17,280
Speaker 14: all so good at your jobs.

3173
02:46:16,760 --> 02:46:20,359
Speaker 2: No, no, we love when Sophie has something to contribute

3174
02:46:20,400 --> 02:46:23,800
Speaker 2: to this show. So what should we talk about?

3175
02:46:23,840 --> 02:46:24,120
Speaker 8: First?

3176
02:46:24,959 --> 02:46:27,840
Speaker 14: Let's do some quick updates from last week. As we

3177
02:46:27,840 --> 02:46:30,920
Speaker 14: mentioned in the episode description, last week we recorded prior

3178
02:46:31,000 --> 02:46:34,480
Speaker 14: to an incident that happened in Portland where two people

3179
02:46:34,959 --> 02:46:40,520
Speaker 14: were shot by Border patrol or ice. Very unclear that

3180
02:46:40,680 --> 02:46:43,760
Speaker 14: there was not a lot of information given out and

3181
02:46:44,600 --> 02:46:47,920
Speaker 14: the way that the situation unfolded, the way that DHS

3182
02:46:47,920 --> 02:46:50,520
Speaker 14: said it that there was a targeted stop of two

3183
02:46:50,600 --> 02:46:54,760
Speaker 14: people and they resisted dress So of course what do

3184
02:46:54,800 --> 02:46:58,520
Speaker 14: they do? Just shoot into a car and those people

3185
02:46:58,879 --> 02:47:02,320
Speaker 14: drove away and then quickly called for help and then

3186
02:47:02,520 --> 02:47:06,720
Speaker 14: went to the hospital. We really don't know anything further

3187
02:47:06,800 --> 02:47:13,280
Speaker 14: than that. I watched many press conferences from Oregon and

3188
02:47:13,600 --> 02:47:16,840
Speaker 14: Portland officials, including the governor and the mayor, talking about

3189
02:47:16,959 --> 02:47:23,160
Speaker 14: the situation. Everybody's pretty horrified by it locally, but that's

3190
02:47:23,560 --> 02:47:27,720
Speaker 14: not the story we were getting from DHS. I can

3191
02:47:27,879 --> 02:47:31,960
Speaker 14: read the statement if you guys want, Okay, Yeah, since

3192
02:47:32,040 --> 02:47:35,560
Speaker 14: Robert's not here, Robert was at CS but was also

3193
02:47:35,720 --> 02:47:38,879
Speaker 14: following the story very closely and did some reporting on

3194
02:47:39,000 --> 02:47:40,320
Speaker 14: his blue sky if you want to.

3195
02:47:40,400 --> 02:47:41,280
Speaker 2: Go back and look at that.

3196
02:47:41,520 --> 02:47:45,680
Speaker 14: But the statement from DHS said at two nineteen pst.

3197
02:47:45,840 --> 02:47:49,199
Speaker 14: US Border Patrol agents were conducting a targeted vehicle stop

3198
02:47:49,240 --> 02:47:53,039
Speaker 14: in Portland. Organ the passengers of the vehicle and target

3199
02:47:53,080 --> 02:47:57,160
Speaker 14: is a Venezuelan illegal alien affiliated with the transnational gang

3200
02:47:57,200 --> 02:48:00,560
Speaker 14: trend de Agua prostitution ring and involved in a recent

3201
02:48:00,600 --> 02:48:03,360
Speaker 14: shooting in Portland. The vehicle drivers believed to be a

3202
02:48:03,400 --> 02:48:06,480
Speaker 14: member of the vicious Venezuelan gang trendy Agua. They love

3203
02:48:06,560 --> 02:48:07,400
Speaker 14: to just throw that out of there.

3204
02:48:07,480 --> 02:48:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3205
02:48:07,720 --> 02:48:11,440
Speaker 14: When agents identified themselves to the vehicle occupants, the driver

3206
02:48:11,600 --> 02:48:14,160
Speaker 14: weaponized his vehicle and attempted to run over the law

3207
02:48:14,240 --> 02:48:17,440
Speaker 14: enforcement agents. Fearing for his life and safety. An agent

3208
02:48:17,520 --> 02:48:20,640
Speaker 14: fire defensive shot. The driver drove off, with the passenger

3209
02:48:20,760 --> 02:48:24,080
Speaker 14: fleeing the scene. The situation is evolving and more information

3210
02:48:24,160 --> 02:48:26,720
Speaker 14: is forthcoming. That was on January eighth, at about five

3211
02:48:26,760 --> 02:48:31,800
Speaker 14: pm Pacific. And that's their take, that's their like go

3212
02:48:31,879 --> 02:48:35,400
Speaker 14: to move. The excuse for randomly shooting at a car

3213
02:48:35,720 --> 02:48:38,879
Speaker 14: is that they were weaponizing the vehicle towards the agent.

3214
02:48:39,640 --> 02:48:42,720
Speaker 14: We really don't know much further than that. Miya, do

3215
02:48:42,720 --> 02:48:43,959
Speaker 14: you have anything you want to add.

3216
02:48:44,320 --> 02:48:47,280
Speaker 15: Yeah, so I think we should make two things through one.

3217
02:48:47,560 --> 02:48:49,760
Speaker 15: Most of the people who were shot have survived, which

3218
02:48:49,800 --> 02:48:50,200
Speaker 15: is good.

3219
02:48:50,640 --> 02:48:50,920
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3220
02:48:51,360 --> 02:48:55,440
Speaker 15: Yes, it's also worth noting that So the day we

3221
02:48:55,480 --> 02:48:59,199
Speaker 15: are recording this, on the fourteenth, there was a report

3222
02:48:59,320 --> 02:49:04,560
Speaker 15: released by Del Cameron and Ryan Shapiro at Wired talking

3223
02:49:04,800 --> 02:49:08,600
Speaker 15: specifically about how they got a bunch of intelligence documents

3224
02:49:08,640 --> 02:49:13,879
Speaker 15: from the Trump administration about trend Agua and to briefly

3225
02:49:13,879 --> 02:49:16,160
Speaker 15: summarized sory coms, I'm just gonna quote the subtitle of

3226
02:49:16,200 --> 02:49:18,200
Speaker 15: it because it gives a good representation of what is

3227
02:49:18,280 --> 02:49:19,680
Speaker 15: in the actual intelligence documents.

3228
02:49:19,680 --> 02:49:20,879
Speaker 2: See, that's all we need.

3229
02:49:21,920 --> 02:49:25,240
Speaker 15: Yeah, hundreds of records are pained by Wired shows thin

3230
02:49:25,360 --> 02:49:29,520
Speaker 15: intelligence on the Venezuelan Gang of the United States, describing fragmented,

3231
02:49:29,680 --> 02:49:33,320
Speaker 15: low level crime rather than a coordinated terrorist threat. So

3232
02:49:34,280 --> 02:49:37,960
Speaker 15: they can barely even find existence of this group in

3233
02:49:37,959 --> 02:49:42,280
Speaker 15: the United States. These two people, I am ninety nine,

3234
02:49:42,320 --> 02:49:45,000
Speaker 15: I would would I would stake my life on the

3235
02:49:45,240 --> 02:49:48,000
Speaker 15: on none of the stuff in that report about them

3236
02:49:48,080 --> 02:49:53,400
Speaker 15: being in this Venezuelan criminal organization being true. Almost everything

3237
02:49:53,640 --> 02:49:56,840
Speaker 15: that has come out of Homeland Security, as we've talked

3238
02:49:56,879 --> 02:50:00,240
Speaker 15: about with every other previous shooting almost everything that out

3239
02:50:00,240 --> 02:50:03,760
Speaker 15: of Homeland Security is a lie. So yeah, we will

3240
02:50:04,240 --> 02:50:07,360
Speaker 15: probably in the coming weeks figure out what actually happens,

3241
02:50:07,440 --> 02:50:12,080
Speaker 15: but unfortunately, right now we're relying on a combination of

3242
02:50:12,600 --> 02:50:15,840
Speaker 15: Portland government officials who are somewhat more reliable and Department

3243
02:50:15,879 --> 02:50:17,920
Speaker 15: of full Land Security, which is utterly unreliable.

3244
02:50:18,840 --> 02:50:19,040
Speaker 7: Yeah.

3245
02:50:19,640 --> 02:50:22,760
Speaker 2: I do have one thing to note here as for

3246
02:50:23,040 --> 02:50:26,560
Speaker 2: what the local officials in Portland are saying. Portland Police

3247
02:50:26,600 --> 02:50:30,280
Speaker 2: Bureau Chief Bob Day started a January tenth press conference

3248
02:50:30,400 --> 02:50:34,880
Speaker 2: by saying, quote, recently I read the Declaration of Independence

3249
02:50:35,000 --> 02:50:39,840
Speaker 2: for the first time unquote, and then stated that the

3250
02:50:39,920 --> 02:50:44,000
Speaker 2: two victims of the shooting have quote some nexus to

3251
02:50:44,280 --> 02:50:49,000
Speaker 2: involvement with Trenda Agua, and then on January eleventh, Maltnama

3252
02:50:49,080 --> 02:50:52,640
Speaker 2: County District Attorney Nathan Vasquez was interviewed on CADU News

3253
02:50:52,720 --> 02:50:55,800
Speaker 2: and said that he believes Trenda Agua is active in Portland,

3254
02:50:55,840 --> 02:50:57,680
Speaker 2: but he could not confirm in his office has any

3255
02:50:57,959 --> 02:50:59,840
Speaker 2: criminal cases against the gang.

3256
02:51:00,760 --> 02:51:03,280
Speaker 16: The Department of Homeland Security has identified the people who

3257
02:51:03,360 --> 02:51:06,600
Speaker 16: were shot, saying they are affiliated with Trinda Ragua, the

3258
02:51:06,680 --> 02:51:10,240
Speaker 16: Venezuelan gang, and are connected to other crimes in Portland.

3259
02:51:10,600 --> 02:51:13,320
Speaker 16: Does your office have any cases against these individuals?

3260
02:51:14,000 --> 02:51:15,600
Speaker 17: You know, this is all These are all things that

3261
02:51:15,640 --> 02:51:17,520
Speaker 17: we're going to be looking at and going through very

3262
02:51:17,600 --> 02:51:21,440
Speaker 17: carefully as we evaluate the case. One to make sure

3263
02:51:21,480 --> 02:51:23,440
Speaker 17: that if there are other pending matters out there, that

3264
02:51:23,440 --> 02:51:26,000
Speaker 17: they're taken care of, but also just to make sure

3265
02:51:26,040 --> 02:51:27,480
Speaker 17: we get a full picture of what's going on in

3266
02:51:27,520 --> 02:51:28,039
Speaker 17: this situation.

3267
02:51:28,600 --> 02:51:31,360
Speaker 16: Do you have any knowledge of whether Trendera or Ragua

3268
02:51:31,480 --> 02:51:33,600
Speaker 16: is active in Portland and Moltmama County.

3269
02:51:34,240 --> 02:51:36,959
Speaker 17: It's certainly something that we have seen and we are

3270
02:51:37,920 --> 02:51:40,040
Speaker 17: we are working on with our local law enforcement.

3271
02:51:40,200 --> 02:51:42,560
Speaker 3: We have seen them in our area.

3272
02:51:43,120 --> 02:51:45,800
Speaker 17: They are one of kind of a host of different

3273
02:51:46,280 --> 02:51:49,720
Speaker 17: groups or individuals out there that are engaged in criminal activity,

3274
02:51:49,760 --> 02:51:50,880
Speaker 17: and it's something that we're working on.

3275
02:51:52,120 --> 02:51:58,360
Speaker 14: Just a lot of biased disinformation and misinformation. We don't

3276
02:51:58,959 --> 02:52:02,680
Speaker 14: actually really know what happened, but I am grateful that

3277
02:52:02,800 --> 02:52:06,600
Speaker 14: that those folks did not lose their lives unlike Renee Good.

3278
02:52:07,000 --> 02:52:07,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3279
02:52:08,120 --> 02:52:11,400
Speaker 15: Yeah, And I also briefly want to mention here about

3280
02:52:11,440 --> 02:52:15,240
Speaker 15: Renee Good. There's been an attempt by the Department of Justice.

3281
02:52:15,400 --> 02:52:17,480
Speaker 15: A bunch of people at the Department Justice have resigned

3282
02:52:17,600 --> 02:52:20,000
Speaker 15: rather than attempt to prosecute Renee Good's wife.

3283
02:52:20,640 --> 02:52:24,320
Speaker 2: Six high level prosecutors have resigned in the past week.

3284
02:52:24,520 --> 02:52:27,520
Speaker 15: And this has been a very very standard reaction from

3285
02:52:28,200 --> 02:52:30,520
Speaker 15: law enforcement when they don't kill someone or when there's

3286
02:52:30,560 --> 02:52:33,200
Speaker 15: someone else on the scene. A few months ago, I

3287
02:52:33,840 --> 02:52:38,120
Speaker 15: shot a woman in Chicago. She thankfully survived, but they

3288
02:52:38,240 --> 02:52:41,760
Speaker 15: also charged her afterwards. So this is a very very

3289
02:52:41,800 --> 02:52:44,160
Speaker 15: standard practice. And they are right now trying this on

3290
02:52:44,360 --> 02:52:47,879
Speaker 15: Renee Goods wife after she watched her fucking wife get

3291
02:52:47,959 --> 02:52:49,480
Speaker 15: killed in front of her.

3292
02:52:49,920 --> 02:52:52,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, so I know people have also been waiting for

3293
02:52:52,640 --> 02:52:55,440
Speaker 9: updates on It run. We have an episode that came out.

3294
02:52:55,680 --> 02:52:58,640
Speaker 9: It would have come out on Wednesday, two days before

3295
02:52:58,800 --> 02:53:00,880
Speaker 9: this comes out. You'd like to know more about what's

3296
02:53:00,879 --> 02:53:03,920
Speaker 9: happening in Iran. We had a really excellent talk with Gordayen,

3297
02:53:04,080 --> 02:53:06,240
Speaker 9: and I would suggest you go back and find that episode.

3298
02:53:06,720 --> 02:53:08,800
Speaker 9: And I wanted to update people on what is happening

3299
02:53:09,120 --> 02:53:14,040
Speaker 9: in Syria, I guess specifically northern Syria right now. So

3300
02:53:14,160 --> 02:53:18,280
Speaker 9: the two neighborhoods Shikmunk sud Nesa Fria, those are both

3301
02:53:18,320 --> 02:53:23,000
Speaker 9: neighborhoods in Aleppo right that there's sometimes characterized as Kurdish neighborhoods.

3302
02:53:23,040 --> 02:53:26,279
Speaker 9: But like you ZD people live there. There are various

3303
02:53:26,360 --> 02:53:29,760
Speaker 9: Christian people living there as well. Right, it's not one

3304
02:53:29,840 --> 02:53:33,280
Speaker 9: hundred percent Kurdish. I think sometimes there's a tendency among

3305
02:53:33,320 --> 02:53:36,160
Speaker 9: people who write about Syria to see things as ethnic modelists,

3306
02:53:36,320 --> 02:53:39,080
Speaker 9: and I think that is not the way to approach

3307
02:53:39,200 --> 02:53:43,040
Speaker 9: these things. But anyway, both of those neighborhoods have now

3308
02:53:43,080 --> 02:53:48,039
Speaker 9: been fully seized by the Syrian Transitional Government. Some SDF

3309
02:53:48,120 --> 02:53:51,279
Speaker 9: fighters were bust back to Kamishlo, which is the capital

3310
02:53:51,360 --> 02:53:55,400
Speaker 9: of the aa ne s somethime's going as Rosjava fighting

3311
02:53:55,520 --> 02:53:59,520
Speaker 9: is now moving closer to the Euphrates, right closer to

3312
02:53:59,600 --> 02:54:03,320
Speaker 9: the core of what people will call Roshjava. I think

3313
02:54:03,400 --> 02:54:06,800
Speaker 9: at a minimum the goal is probably to remove the

3314
02:54:07,000 --> 02:54:10,640
Speaker 9: SDF from any areas that are not majority Kurdish. So

3315
02:54:10,800 --> 02:54:14,440
Speaker 9: right now that they're fighting in Derhafa and they will

3316
02:54:14,440 --> 02:54:17,600
Speaker 9: begin fighting, or that they have already been drawn attacks

3317
02:54:17,640 --> 02:54:20,680
Speaker 9: in other areas as well. In a leopard Is Syrian observed.

3318
02:54:20,760 --> 02:54:24,039
Speaker 9: Joined Human Rights, which is a Britain based human rights organization,

3319
02:54:24,480 --> 02:54:27,920
Speaker 9: documented several war crimes and going to quote here, SOHR

3320
02:54:28,120 --> 02:54:31,640
Speaker 9: documented twenty three cases of extra judicial executions and desecration

3321
02:54:31,760 --> 02:54:35,400
Speaker 9: of bodies in shik Maksud and Alasafria neighborhoods in Aleppo

3322
02:54:35,480 --> 02:54:38,000
Speaker 9: City in the past few days. Here are further details.

3323
02:54:38,480 --> 02:54:42,160
Speaker 9: The bodies of fifteen members of the Internal Security Forces ASAISH,

3324
02:54:42,680 --> 02:54:46,440
Speaker 9: including bodies of four female members, were deliberately incinerated. A

3325
02:54:46,520 --> 02:54:48,840
Speaker 9: female member of the SASH forces was killed during the

3326
02:54:48,879 --> 02:54:50,800
Speaker 9: clashes and her body was thrown from the top of

3327
02:54:50,840 --> 02:54:53,039
Speaker 9: the building. The reason they've been able to document these

3328
02:54:53,160 --> 02:54:55,920
Speaker 9: is that they're widely broadcast on telegram. Right people are

3329
02:54:56,000 --> 02:54:59,360
Speaker 9: very proud of what our war crimes, the desecration of

3330
02:54:59,480 --> 02:55:04,600
Speaker 9: the remain. At the same time, the Islamic State carried

3331
02:55:04,640 --> 02:55:07,960
Speaker 9: out three simultaneous attacks on the twelfth of January, enduring

3332
02:55:08,000 --> 02:55:13,640
Speaker 9: several SDF personnel, and it seems that this whole debacle

3333
02:55:13,800 --> 02:55:17,640
Speaker 9: has put the peace process between the PKK. The PKK

3334
02:55:17,840 --> 02:55:21,440
Speaker 9: is a distinct entity from the SDF right, but nonetheless

3335
02:55:22,200 --> 02:55:26,160
Speaker 9: the PKK guess is seeing Kurdish people killed in Syria

3336
02:55:26,480 --> 02:55:29,320
Speaker 9: and Turkish support right. There have been some reports of

3337
02:55:29,400 --> 02:55:34,080
Speaker 9: Turkish drones being used or flying around there, so the

3338
02:55:34,200 --> 02:55:37,400
Speaker 9: KSEK if people aren't familiar, the KSEK is the organization

3339
02:55:37,520 --> 02:55:40,680
Speaker 9: that brings together the different political groups in kurdis Dan

3340
02:55:40,800 --> 02:55:44,520
Speaker 9: that broadly adhere to the political ideology or thought of

3341
02:55:44,600 --> 02:55:48,720
Speaker 9: abdulah Ojulan, but take different approaches to that. The KSEK

3342
02:55:49,040 --> 02:55:51,720
Speaker 9: released a statement saying, quote, the attacks on chikmuk Sud

3343
02:55:51,760 --> 02:55:54,360
Speaker 9: and a Sophia and the preparations for attacks on the

3344
02:55:54,400 --> 02:55:56,959
Speaker 9: east of the Euphrates also call into question the ceasefire

3345
02:55:57,000 --> 02:56:01,480
Speaker 9: between our movement and Turkey and the ongoing piece democratic society.

3346
02:56:02,040 --> 02:56:04,480
Speaker 9: That is not great, right. Yeah, you know, this is

3347
02:56:04,520 --> 02:56:07,040
Speaker 9: a place where people have been at war, killing and

3348
02:56:07,120 --> 02:56:09,920
Speaker 9: dying for more than a decade, and it's very sad

3349
02:56:10,000 --> 02:56:13,240
Speaker 9: to think of more killing and dying happening there. Garana,

3350
02:56:13,360 --> 02:56:16,640
Speaker 9: you wanted to talk a little bit about some domestic terrorism,

3351
02:56:16,720 --> 02:56:20,120
Speaker 9: I guess some actual domestic terrorism and us AN attack rate.

3352
02:56:20,160 --> 02:56:20,880
Speaker 9: Do you want to talk about that?

3353
02:56:21,680 --> 02:56:21,880
Speaker 8: Yes.

3354
02:56:22,200 --> 02:56:27,599
Speaker 2: On Saturday, January tenth, the Beth Israel Congregation synagogue in Mississippi,

3355
02:56:27,720 --> 02:56:30,640
Speaker 2: and historic synagogue, the oldest in the state that was

3356
02:56:30,680 --> 02:56:34,240
Speaker 2: once targeted by the KKK, was set on fire in

3357
02:56:34,480 --> 02:56:38,840
Speaker 2: the middle of the night, damaging the interior of the building.

3358
02:56:39,480 --> 02:56:43,680
Speaker 2: A nineteen year old college student named Stephen Spencer Pittman

3359
02:56:43,920 --> 02:56:46,800
Speaker 2: has been charged with federal and state arson charges, as

3360
02:56:46,840 --> 02:56:51,039
Speaker 2: well as a hate crime enhancement. On Instagram, Pittman described

3361
02:56:51,080 --> 02:56:55,400
Speaker 2: himself as a quote unquote follower of Christ and shared

3362
02:56:55,440 --> 02:56:59,560
Speaker 2: a meme of the anti Semitic happy Merchant hours before

3363
02:56:59,600 --> 02:56:59,960
Speaker 2: the attack.

3364
02:57:00,720 --> 02:57:02,160
Speaker 9: Jesus Christ Jesu.

3365
02:57:03,120 --> 02:57:06,040
Speaker 2: The happy merchant is an anti Smenic Jewish stereotype that

3366
02:57:06,200 --> 02:57:10,480
Speaker 2: is often used in memes originating from the four Chen

3367
02:57:10,680 --> 02:57:14,400
Speaker 2: era of whoa Jack memes. You've probably seen it before.

3368
02:57:14,440 --> 02:57:17,480
Speaker 2: It's a crude, anti Semitic rendering of a Jewish person

3369
02:57:18,240 --> 02:57:23,520
Speaker 2: with his hands clasped together. Pittman has confessed to starting

3370
02:57:23,720 --> 02:57:26,360
Speaker 2: a fire in the building, which he described as the

3371
02:57:26,440 --> 02:57:30,519
Speaker 2: quote unquote Synagogue of Satan. According to an FBI affidavit

3372
02:57:30,920 --> 02:57:35,000
Speaker 2: and reporting from the AP states that during his first hearing,

3373
02:57:35,440 --> 02:57:38,879
Speaker 2: when the judge read him his rights, Pittman said, quote

3374
02:57:39,160 --> 02:57:40,840
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ is Lord.

3375
02:57:41,400 --> 02:57:41,720
Speaker 1: Quote.

3376
02:57:42,320 --> 02:57:45,440
Speaker 2: According to the FBI affi, David Pittman texted his own

3377
02:57:45,560 --> 02:57:48,879
Speaker 2: father during the arson, sending a photo of the synagogue

3378
02:57:48,920 --> 02:57:52,320
Speaker 2: with the messages there's a furnace in the back, hoodie

3379
02:57:52,560 --> 02:57:58,520
Speaker 2: is on, and they have the best cameras unquote. Pittman's

3380
02:57:58,600 --> 02:58:01,760
Speaker 2: father attempted to can Vince's son to come home and

3381
02:58:02,080 --> 02:58:06,400
Speaker 2: later turned him into the authorities. Pittman suffered burns to

3382
02:58:06,600 --> 02:58:10,080
Speaker 2: himself during this attack. He's the only person injured as

3383
02:58:10,120 --> 02:58:14,760
Speaker 2: a result of this incident. Big flee. I'm glad he

3384
02:58:14,840 --> 02:58:19,720
Speaker 2: got hurt. Pittman's phone was found in the synagogue damage

3385
02:58:19,760 --> 02:58:22,400
Speaker 2: from the fire, though his location was able to be

3386
02:58:22,480 --> 02:58:26,879
Speaker 2: tracked via the Life three sixty GPS tracking app which

3387
02:58:27,000 --> 02:58:30,440
Speaker 2: shows a stop at a gas station where Pittman allegedly

3388
02:58:30,520 --> 02:58:34,439
Speaker 2: picked up gasoline before heading onto the synagogue.

3389
02:58:35,080 --> 02:58:39,280
Speaker 9: Great of what a fucking idiot. But yeah, I think

3390
02:58:39,320 --> 02:58:41,480
Speaker 9: this is the only synagogue in the state, right, like.

3391
02:58:41,879 --> 02:58:44,520
Speaker 2: To the oldest synagogue in the state. I doubt this

3392
02:58:44,680 --> 02:58:46,960
Speaker 2: is the only synagogue in Mississippi.

3393
02:58:46,879 --> 02:58:47,640
Speaker 9: The largest one.

3394
02:58:47,720 --> 02:58:50,160
Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah, yes, yeah, it's it's like the most

3395
02:58:50,200 --> 02:58:50,879
Speaker 2: famous one from.

3396
02:58:50,760 --> 02:58:52,760
Speaker 9: The Yeah yeah, And like you said, it was attacked

3397
02:58:52,760 --> 02:58:55,160
Speaker 9: by the Klan before it was didn't he attack exactly

3398
02:58:55,200 --> 02:58:58,120
Speaker 9: the same part of the synagogue that the Klan previously burned.

3399
02:58:58,640 --> 02:58:59,920
Speaker 2: I don't have that in my notes.

3400
02:59:00,240 --> 02:59:03,960
Speaker 9: That is, it seems like that's what he was same vibes.

3401
02:59:04,520 --> 02:59:08,160
Speaker 2: Now, he did say that he did a lot of

3402
02:59:08,320 --> 02:59:11,760
Speaker 2: research on the target and that he needed a home

3403
02:59:11,879 --> 02:59:15,920
Speaker 2: run in communications to his father and Pittman was a

3404
02:59:16,240 --> 02:59:20,240
Speaker 2: baseball player in the state. There's not much more to

3405
02:59:20,360 --> 02:59:26,240
Speaker 2: say about this, Like this is a weirdo Instagram Christian Zoomer,

3406
02:59:26,560 --> 02:59:32,240
Speaker 2: who also offered like a fitness service. It's unclear how

3407
02:59:32,320 --> 02:59:34,800
Speaker 2: real this is or if he had like, you know, customers,

3408
02:59:35,320 --> 02:59:38,679
Speaker 2: but he was offering faith based fitness transformations.

3409
02:59:39,360 --> 02:59:39,400
Speaker 9: Es.

3410
02:59:39,840 --> 02:59:42,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing, Like you have a little bit

3411
02:59:42,959 --> 02:59:45,280
Speaker 2: of like the Christian looks max or vibe going on

3412
02:59:45,440 --> 02:59:48,520
Speaker 2: with him, as well as sharing a series of anti

3413
02:59:48,600 --> 02:59:50,840
Speaker 2: Smitic posts made on Instagram.

3414
02:59:51,520 --> 02:59:55,440
Speaker 9: Yeah did you see this Deborah lipstat tweet geah No,

3415
02:59:55,800 --> 02:59:59,200
Speaker 9: so Deborah lipsdat right, who was previously the she like

3416
02:59:59,280 --> 03:00:03,600
Speaker 9: the Envoil anti Semitism, posted a twenty three on January eleventh.

3417
03:00:03,879 --> 03:00:05,760
Speaker 9: This is a major tragedy, but it's more than that.

3418
03:00:05,879 --> 03:00:08,599
Speaker 9: It's an arson attack and another step in the globalization

3419
03:00:08,680 --> 03:00:09,560
Speaker 9: of the Intifada.

3420
03:00:10,200 --> 03:00:12,000
Speaker 2: That does not seem to be the case. Yeah, it

3421
03:00:12,120 --> 03:00:12,600
Speaker 2: doesn't know.

3422
03:00:13,000 --> 03:00:16,800
Speaker 9: No, but this is like pretty uh way off base

3423
03:00:16,920 --> 03:00:20,119
Speaker 9: in fact, right, But yeah, I think it's still rather

3424
03:00:20,240 --> 03:00:20,720
Speaker 9: telling that.

3425
03:00:21,200 --> 03:00:25,160
Speaker 2: This is this is not like a Hamas anti imperialist Zoomer,

3426
03:00:25,280 --> 03:00:29,760
Speaker 2: Red Triangle and biotype guy. This is a right wing

3427
03:00:29,840 --> 03:00:36,400
Speaker 2: Christian nationalist college athlete, Christian Zoomer who shares antisemitic memes

3428
03:00:36,520 --> 03:00:39,640
Speaker 2: on Instagram. This is a pretty standard, you know, pre

3429
03:00:39,840 --> 03:00:44,760
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two type of like synagogue attack. Yeah, in fact,

3430
03:00:44,840 --> 03:00:47,240
Speaker 2: the fire was started right in front of a Tree

3431
03:00:47,320 --> 03:00:49,840
Speaker 2: of Life memorial plaque in the synagogue.

3432
03:00:50,240 --> 03:01:06,440
Speaker 7: Jesus Christ God, of course it was yeah, and we

3433
03:01:06,680 --> 03:01:07,760
Speaker 7: are back.

3434
03:01:09,240 --> 03:01:10,760
Speaker 15: So the thing I thought I was going to be

3435
03:01:10,840 --> 03:01:13,520
Speaker 15: talking about this week was a Supreme Court ruling on

3436
03:01:13,640 --> 03:01:17,360
Speaker 15: Trump's tariffs. However, the Supreme Court, contrary to the expectations

3437
03:01:17,400 --> 03:01:20,320
Speaker 15: of basically everyone, didn't actually release a ruling on the

3438
03:01:20,400 --> 03:01:21,200
Speaker 15: tariff stuff today.

3439
03:01:21,240 --> 03:01:24,040
Speaker 2: We have no idea when they're going to release that. However,

3440
03:01:24,959 --> 03:01:27,280
Speaker 2: instead of that, we got one of.

3441
03:01:27,360 --> 03:01:30,920
Speaker 15: The most bizarre and extraordinary statements and videos I have

3442
03:01:31,040 --> 03:01:33,960
Speaker 15: ever seen from someone who was even remotely affiliated with

3443
03:01:34,040 --> 03:01:38,879
Speaker 15: the US government. So on Sunday, Thuderal Reserve chair Jerome

3444
03:01:39,040 --> 03:01:42,240
Speaker 15: Powell released I don't even have a good reference for

3445
03:01:42,360 --> 03:01:44,200
Speaker 15: what this is. The closest thing I can think of

3446
03:01:44,360 --> 03:01:46,520
Speaker 15: is it's a kidnapping video, but it's more like a

3447
03:01:46,680 --> 03:01:50,720
Speaker 15: help I'm about to be kidnapped video in which he says, quote,

3448
03:01:51,200 --> 03:01:54,240
Speaker 15: the Department of Justice serve the Thorough Reserve with grand

3449
03:01:54,360 --> 03:01:58,080
Speaker 15: jury subpoenas threatening a criminal indictment related to my testimony

3450
03:01:58,160 --> 03:01:59,520
Speaker 15: before the Senate Banking Committee.

3451
03:01:59,560 --> 03:01:59,720
Speaker 1: Last.

3452
03:02:00,600 --> 03:02:05,280
Speaker 15: So, this is nominally about cost overruns effectively in renovations

3453
03:02:05,360 --> 03:02:08,080
Speaker 15: of the Federal Reserve. If anyone has ever paid attention

3454
03:02:08,160 --> 03:02:10,240
Speaker 15: to any single US government project ever, you will know

3455
03:02:10,320 --> 03:02:13,800
Speaker 15: that there are cost overruns on by most projects. This

3456
03:02:13,920 --> 03:02:17,640
Speaker 15: is just how the government works, because you come in

3457
03:02:17,760 --> 03:02:19,959
Speaker 15: with your little bid that's below what the actual cause

3458
03:02:20,040 --> 03:02:21,280
Speaker 15: is going to be, and then it costs more than that.

3459
03:02:22,320 --> 03:02:26,840
Speaker 15: Now this investigation is being run directly into your own power.

3460
03:02:27,440 --> 03:02:30,960
Speaker 15: And by the way, this statement was published on the

3461
03:02:31,000 --> 03:02:33,480
Speaker 15: Federal Reserves. This is like an official statement from the

3462
03:02:33,520 --> 03:02:34,520
Speaker 15: Federal Reserve Board.

3463
03:02:34,959 --> 03:02:35,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3464
03:02:35,680 --> 03:02:37,880
Speaker 15: So, he also says later in the statement, quote, the

3465
03:02:37,959 --> 03:02:40,880
Speaker 15: threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal

3466
03:02:40,959 --> 03:02:44,760
Speaker 15: Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessments of

3467
03:02:44,840 --> 03:02:47,760
Speaker 15: what will serve the public, rather than following the preferences

3468
03:02:47,840 --> 03:02:50,440
Speaker 15: of the presidents. This is about whether the Fed will

3469
03:02:50,480 --> 03:02:52,680
Speaker 15: be able to continue to set interest rates based on

3470
03:02:52,800 --> 03:02:57,200
Speaker 15: evidence and economic conditions or whether instead monetary policy will

3471
03:02:57,240 --> 03:03:02,839
Speaker 15: be directed by political pressures or intimidation. This is extraordinary.

3472
03:03:03,440 --> 03:03:08,520
Speaker 15: They got sixteen other central bank leaders from around the world,

3473
03:03:08,680 --> 03:03:12,760
Speaker 15: and we're talking about Norway to Indonesia to submit a

3474
03:03:12,959 --> 03:03:17,080
Speaker 15: letter expressing where they use the words solidarity to express

3475
03:03:17,080 --> 03:03:20,120
Speaker 15: the support of Powell. I can't emphasize enough. Do you

3476
03:03:20,160 --> 03:03:22,840
Speaker 15: know how bad it is to get central bank leaders

3477
03:03:22,959 --> 03:03:24,759
Speaker 15: to say the word solidarity?

3478
03:03:27,440 --> 03:03:27,600
Speaker 3: Yeah?

3479
03:03:28,440 --> 03:03:31,600
Speaker 15: Now, this is following a Trump two pattern of using

3480
03:03:31,640 --> 03:03:35,400
Speaker 15: the DOJ to attack their political enemies. Today the fourteenth,

3481
03:03:35,480 --> 03:03:38,320
Speaker 15: as we're recording, this also saw the beginning of investigation

3482
03:03:38,440 --> 03:03:42,440
Speaker 15: into Senator Elisa Slotkin over her participation in a video

3483
03:03:42,600 --> 03:03:46,040
Speaker 15: a few months ago encouraging US troops to disobey illegal orders.

3484
03:03:46,840 --> 03:03:49,640
Speaker 15: Mark Kelly, who was also in that video, was also

3485
03:03:49,720 --> 03:03:52,280
Speaker 15: targeted with a Pentagon investigation over the video.

3486
03:03:52,959 --> 03:03:54,240
Speaker 2: So this has become very common.

3487
03:03:54,320 --> 03:03:58,640
Speaker 15: However, Jerome Powell is a Trump one appointee, so this

3488
03:03:58,840 --> 03:04:02,120
Speaker 15: is someone who is also and this is this is

3489
03:04:02,200 --> 03:04:03,600
Speaker 15: this is something that worth mentioning.

3490
03:04:03,800 --> 03:04:07,280
Speaker 2: Powell is very popular in conservative.

3491
03:04:06,760 --> 03:04:11,760
Speaker 15: Circles, largely outside of a very very immediate circle of

3492
03:04:12,200 --> 03:04:14,200
Speaker 15: people around Trump, who want their president to be able

3493
03:04:14,200 --> 03:04:15,119
Speaker 15: to control the interest rate.

3494
03:04:15,920 --> 03:04:16,080
Speaker 1: Now.

3495
03:04:16,760 --> 03:04:19,400
Speaker 15: I'm going to do a full episode about this, probably

3496
03:04:19,520 --> 03:04:23,840
Speaker 15: next week, but the independence of the central bank is

3497
03:04:24,080 --> 03:04:27,120
Speaker 15: one of the core pillars of the global reputation and

3498
03:04:27,240 --> 03:04:31,039
Speaker 15: stability of the US dollar. Now I'm not saying here

3499
03:04:31,120 --> 03:04:34,360
Speaker 15: that the central bank is good. I'm saying that this

3500
03:04:34,560 --> 03:04:39,240
Speaker 15: is how the entire world economic system operates, right. It

3501
03:04:39,400 --> 03:04:43,080
Speaker 15: is based on the central Bank operating as a series

3502
03:04:43,160 --> 03:04:46,920
Speaker 15: of quasi public but still technically non government entities that

3503
03:04:47,080 --> 03:04:52,200
Speaker 15: make independent decisions on interest rates. Now FED interest rates effectively.

3504
03:04:52,360 --> 03:04:55,039
Speaker 15: And I'm saying effectively here because I'm simplifying a very

3505
03:04:55,120 --> 03:04:58,720
Speaker 15: complicated set of economic interactions into one sentence, but they

3506
03:04:58,800 --> 03:05:02,160
Speaker 15: effectively set in for bank loans and the broader economy,

3507
03:05:02,680 --> 03:05:05,039
Speaker 15: which in turn has a massive impact on how fast

3508
03:05:05,120 --> 03:05:08,240
Speaker 15: or slow the economy grows. And the FED uses this

3509
03:05:09,040 --> 03:05:12,320
Speaker 15: as a tool to control inflation and unemployment through a

3510
03:05:12,640 --> 03:05:17,280
Speaker 15: basically a single macroeconomic policy lever. The FED does much

3511
03:05:17,640 --> 03:05:19,360
Speaker 15: much more stuff than this. I will get into this

3512
03:05:19,440 --> 03:05:22,440
Speaker 15: in the other episode. It has a series of unbelievably

3513
03:05:22,480 --> 03:05:27,360
Speaker 15: crucial functions. But what is happening here is the Trump

3514
03:05:27,360 --> 03:05:31,880
Speaker 15: administration attempting to directly seize control of the FED, and

3515
03:05:32,080 --> 03:05:37,400
Speaker 15: this is a nightmare. The actual mechanisms that work here

3516
03:05:37,440 --> 03:05:40,640
Speaker 15: in terms of the relationship between interest rates and the

3517
03:05:40,680 --> 03:05:45,800
Speaker 15: Fed's economic policy toolkit and inflation are not well understoody

3518
03:05:45,879 --> 03:05:48,000
Speaker 15: even by the Fed, which is something you can get

3519
03:05:48,040 --> 03:05:50,959
Speaker 15: if you go read the Federal Reserve documents. It's very complicated,

3520
03:05:51,120 --> 03:05:56,000
Speaker 15: it's all contested, but it is the Fed's job to

3521
03:05:56,080 --> 03:05:58,200
Speaker 15: be able to do this, and they will admit they're

3522
03:05:58,240 --> 03:06:02,160
Speaker 15: not incredible at its Trump administration is running this directly.

3523
03:06:02,400 --> 03:06:04,840
Speaker 15: The trumpdministration has absolutely no idea how any of this

3524
03:06:04,879 --> 03:06:07,560
Speaker 15: stuff works. Yeah, this is giving them the keys to

3525
03:06:07,560 --> 03:06:09,440
Speaker 15: the global economy and they are going to just start

3526
03:06:09,440 --> 03:06:13,440
Speaker 15: pushing buttons. This is a significant enough threat that several

3527
03:06:13,520 --> 03:06:17,040
Speaker 15: Republican senators and this is not just Morowski, these are

3528
03:06:17,680 --> 03:06:21,959
Speaker 15: just regular Republican senators have spoken out against this move

3529
03:06:22,080 --> 03:06:24,960
Speaker 15: and have expressed, you know, expressed that they think that

3530
03:06:25,480 --> 03:06:28,240
Speaker 15: drump Powell is innocent and that they will vote against

3531
03:06:28,440 --> 03:06:32,040
Speaker 15: any attempt to approve a Trump nominee for the head

3532
03:06:32,040 --> 03:06:36,000
Speaker 15: of Federal Reserve, which is also extraordinary. This is one

3533
03:06:36,040 --> 03:06:38,120
Speaker 15: of the largest breaks we've seen with Trump from the

3534
03:06:38,160 --> 03:06:41,600
Speaker 15: Republican Party so far, and the reason that there have

3535
03:06:41,680 --> 03:06:44,160
Speaker 15: been actual breaks from the Republican Party is that this

3536
03:06:44,400 --> 03:06:48,120
Speaker 15: is the rubicon for a lot of sectors of capital.

3537
03:06:49,360 --> 03:06:55,080
Speaker 15: Almost anything can be endured as long as the president

3538
03:06:55,120 --> 03:06:57,840
Speaker 15: does not have direct control over the money supply, which

3539
03:06:57,920 --> 03:07:02,080
Speaker 15: is what Trump controlling the Federal Reserve directs would be. Now,

3540
03:07:03,360 --> 03:07:05,480
Speaker 15: part of what's going on here, right is that this

3541
03:07:05,600 --> 03:07:07,800
Speaker 15: is an attempt to choose a new chair of the

3542
03:07:07,879 --> 03:07:09,520
Speaker 15: Federal Reserve Board by getting.

3543
03:07:09,320 --> 03:07:10,280
Speaker 1: Powell out of his job.

3544
03:07:10,920 --> 03:07:16,040
Speaker 15: However, so Powell's term expires in May, but that's Powell's

3545
03:07:16,120 --> 03:07:18,560
Speaker 15: term as the Chair of the Federal Reserve. He's still

3546
03:07:19,000 --> 03:07:21,360
Speaker 15: on the Board of Governors, and the Board of Governors

3547
03:07:21,400 --> 03:07:23,640
Speaker 15: also has to approve a new head of the Federal Reserve.

3548
03:07:24,640 --> 03:07:27,280
Speaker 15: So Trump needs to oust him from his position as

3549
03:07:27,400 --> 03:07:29,440
Speaker 15: the governor of the Federal Reserve Board, because if he

3550
03:07:29,520 --> 03:07:31,200
Speaker 15: doesn't do this, he doesn't have enough votes to get

3551
03:07:31,240 --> 03:07:35,360
Speaker 15: his appointments. The really dangerous thing here, on top of

3552
03:07:35,440 --> 03:07:40,119
Speaker 15: the abstract principle of you know, the president having direct

3553
03:07:40,160 --> 03:07:44,800
Speaker 15: control over the central banking system, the direct media threat

3554
03:07:44,879 --> 03:07:47,120
Speaker 15: is that his preferred candidates, who is currently one of

3555
03:07:47,120 --> 03:07:50,119
Speaker 15: the Federal Reserve Board governors or one of the Federal

3556
03:07:50,120 --> 03:07:53,160
Speaker 15: Reserve governors she's on the board is Stephan Merin, who

3557
03:07:53,240 --> 03:07:55,760
Speaker 15: is the guy who wants to charge other countries for

3558
03:07:55,879 --> 03:07:56,880
Speaker 15: holding US bonds.

3559
03:07:58,160 --> 03:07:59,720
Speaker 2: So yeah, I forget.

3560
03:08:00,440 --> 03:08:04,120
Speaker 15: This guy is a mediac, right Like, that's sorry, that

3561
03:08:04,240 --> 03:08:06,440
Speaker 15: is that is deeply unfair to mediacs, who are very

3562
03:08:06,520 --> 03:08:11,200
Speaker 15: reasonable people. This guy is I cannot emphasize enough if

3563
03:08:11,240 --> 03:08:14,720
Speaker 15: you put someone in charge of the Federal Reserve who

3564
03:08:15,040 --> 03:08:17,720
Speaker 15: literally did not understand what economics was, they would do

3565
03:08:17,920 --> 03:08:22,960
Speaker 15: less damage than putting Stiffevan Mirron in charge of this.

3566
03:08:23,480 --> 03:08:27,880
Speaker 15: This is a nightmare. This guy has no idea what

3567
03:08:28,040 --> 03:08:30,760
Speaker 15: he's doing at all. He is effectively a cipher for

3568
03:08:30,840 --> 03:08:34,440
Speaker 15: Trump administration. And this is one of the positions in

3569
03:08:34,920 --> 03:08:37,920
Speaker 15: the entire capitalist system where the chair of the Federal

3570
03:08:37,959 --> 03:08:39,840
Speaker 15: Reserve has to be someone who at least sort of

3571
03:08:39,840 --> 03:08:43,440
Speaker 15: knows what's going on. They can be evil, and they

3572
03:08:43,760 --> 03:08:46,920
Speaker 15: very often have been, but they have to sort of

3573
03:08:47,080 --> 03:08:49,600
Speaker 15: know what's happening. If this guy gets put in charge

3574
03:08:49,600 --> 03:08:51,520
Speaker 15: of the Federal Reserve, he is going to turn the

3575
03:08:51,640 --> 03:08:55,720
Speaker 15: US economy into a smoking crater. And that's what's at

3576
03:08:55,800 --> 03:08:58,640
Speaker 15: stake here with this attempt to prosecute Jerome Powell.

3577
03:08:59,000 --> 03:09:07,560
Speaker 2: Powell blink three times. If you need help. He is

3578
03:09:07,680 --> 03:09:12,680
Speaker 2: cabin s o s with his fingers. It is a

3579
03:09:12,840 --> 03:09:14,880
Speaker 2: very unnerving video that he posted.

3580
03:09:15,080 --> 03:09:18,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's just like one of those if I disappear.

3581
03:09:18,640 --> 03:09:19,800
Speaker 2: He looks really scared.

3582
03:09:20,440 --> 03:09:23,920
Speaker 15: Yeah, and I think this is going to be one

3583
03:09:23,959 --> 03:09:30,160
Speaker 15: of the major flashpoints here because even the tariffs don't

3584
03:09:30,280 --> 03:09:34,880
Speaker 15: have the potential impact for economic disruption that handing the

3585
03:09:35,240 --> 03:09:39,160
Speaker 15: make countries pay money the whole US bonds guy, the

3586
03:09:39,280 --> 03:09:42,400
Speaker 15: Federal Reserve Board chairman does so.

3587
03:09:43,480 --> 03:09:45,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, you will see a position from Republicans because it

3588
03:09:46,160 --> 03:09:47,600
Speaker 9: directly impacts their bag.

3589
03:09:48,280 --> 03:09:51,560
Speaker 15: Yeah, this is the most you can possibly fuck with

3590
03:09:51,640 --> 03:09:53,680
Speaker 15: the money by tending to take control of the entire

3591
03:09:53,760 --> 03:09:56,480
Speaker 15: money supply. There's a lot of fears here too, and

3592
03:09:56,600 --> 03:09:58,640
Speaker 15: it's sort of worth mentioning this. I've been seeing this

3593
03:09:58,879 --> 03:10:01,720
Speaker 15: passed around a lot. Is that there is another sort

3594
03:10:01,760 --> 03:10:05,480
Speaker 15: of recent example of a technically elected president assuming effectively

3595
03:10:05,520 --> 03:10:09,040
Speaker 15: dicatorial powers, and it's Air Towan, and Air Towan eventually

3596
03:10:09,080 --> 03:10:11,720
Speaker 15: took control of the central bank. And to get a

3597
03:10:11,760 --> 03:10:14,480
Speaker 15: sense of how that's going, the inflation rate in Turkey

3598
03:10:14,560 --> 03:10:17,720
Speaker 15: right now is currently thirty percent and everyone is celebrating

3599
03:10:17,800 --> 03:10:19,640
Speaker 15: because it's below thirty one percent, and this is the

3600
03:10:19,680 --> 03:10:21,680
Speaker 15: lowest the inflation rate has been in ages. It was

3601
03:10:21,800 --> 03:10:24,840
Speaker 15: like seventy percent when they first started this, and it

3602
03:10:24,959 --> 03:10:27,040
Speaker 15: was fifty percent last year, and they've gotten it down

3603
03:10:27,120 --> 03:10:29,160
Speaker 15: to a mere thirty percent inflation rate.

3604
03:10:29,280 --> 03:10:29,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, thinks Karen.

3605
03:10:30,000 --> 03:10:33,920
Speaker 15: Well, so this is the kind of thing that's on

3606
03:10:34,120 --> 03:10:37,600
Speaker 15: these people's minds because they all understand this. And this

3607
03:10:37,840 --> 03:10:40,240
Speaker 15: is not the Turkish Central Bank k central bank is

3608
03:10:40,280 --> 03:10:43,040
Speaker 15: obviously important in the world economy. This is the United

3609
03:10:43,080 --> 03:10:45,920
Speaker 15: States Central Bank. This is a question of the fundamental

3610
03:10:46,000 --> 03:10:48,600
Speaker 15: legitimacy of the dollar as the world reserve currency and

3611
03:10:49,000 --> 03:10:52,720
Speaker 15: of the premier currency in the world economy. So we

3612
03:10:52,760 --> 03:10:55,240
Speaker 15: will see what happens as this continues to unfold. But

3613
03:10:55,400 --> 03:10:58,920
Speaker 15: this is probably the premier economic fight of the entire

3614
03:10:58,959 --> 03:11:02,240
Speaker 15: Tip administration, and we will we will continue to update

3615
03:11:02,280 --> 03:11:04,280
Speaker 15: it as we learn more about how this is going

3616
03:11:04,320 --> 03:11:04,480
Speaker 15: to go.

3617
03:11:05,760 --> 03:11:08,760
Speaker 9: So I want to talk about something that came to

3618
03:11:08,840 --> 03:11:10,760
Speaker 9: my attention of the break here.

3619
03:11:10,920 --> 03:11:14,320
Speaker 2: I feel like we should utilize a banking segue in

3620
03:11:14,440 --> 03:11:15,000
Speaker 2: my opinion.

3621
03:11:15,280 --> 03:11:21,600
Speaker 9: Okay, fine, yeah, fine, fine, fine, talking of banks and

3622
03:11:21,760 --> 03:11:24,560
Speaker 9: of centralizing bank power under the state.

3623
03:11:24,640 --> 03:11:24,960
Speaker 1: There you go.

3624
03:11:25,080 --> 03:11:27,880
Speaker 9: Let's talk about an organization that once began as a

3625
03:11:27,879 --> 03:11:31,600
Speaker 9: member of the KPD. We're going to talk about Germany,

3626
03:11:31,640 --> 03:11:34,879
Speaker 9: and specifically I want to talk about an organization called

3627
03:11:35,920 --> 03:11:39,640
Speaker 9: Roster Hilfer red Aid. Don't really speak German, so if

3628
03:11:39,640 --> 03:11:42,680
Speaker 9: I've pronounced that wrong, I hope you'll understand. Why we're

3629
03:11:42,720 --> 03:11:46,040
Speaker 9: talking about Rotter Hilfer is that we a few months

3630
03:11:46,080 --> 03:11:50,200
Speaker 9: ago reported on the State Department adding various European organizations

3631
03:11:50,240 --> 03:11:54,920
Speaker 9: to its FTO list Foreign Terrorist Organization, right, and we

3632
03:11:55,080 --> 03:11:57,280
Speaker 9: wondered what this was about and what it would mean.

3633
03:11:57,680 --> 03:11:59,120
Speaker 9: We are now starting to see a little bit of

3634
03:11:59,200 --> 03:12:03,680
Speaker 9: what it would mean because Rotter Hilfer red Aid has

3635
03:12:03,800 --> 03:12:07,480
Speaker 9: had its bank account closed in Germany. It had accounts

3636
03:12:07,520 --> 03:12:09,800
Speaker 9: with two different banks, both of which had sort of

3637
03:12:09,879 --> 03:12:14,520
Speaker 9: broadly social or ecological missions, right. They were sort of

3638
03:12:14,680 --> 03:12:17,640
Speaker 9: progressive banks. I guess if such a thing can exist,

3639
03:12:18,320 --> 03:12:22,200
Speaker 9: because these banks are concerned with being sanctioned and effectively

3640
03:12:22,280 --> 03:12:25,920
Speaker 9: locked out of the United States swift system for doing

3641
03:12:26,160 --> 03:12:30,520
Speaker 9: business with a terrorist organization. Just to give some background

3642
03:12:30,560 --> 03:12:33,080
Speaker 9: on the org, I guess there's not a direct lineage

3643
03:12:33,160 --> 03:12:35,880
Speaker 9: from the KPD to this, but there was an organization

3644
03:12:35,920 --> 03:12:39,080
Speaker 9: of the same name from which it sees itself as descended,

3645
03:12:39,200 --> 03:12:41,920
Speaker 9: set up by the German Communist Party, which of course

3646
03:12:42,040 --> 03:12:46,120
Speaker 9: was dissolved by the Nazis. Today what they do is

3647
03:12:46,200 --> 03:12:48,440
Speaker 9: they do legal aid stuff. They appear to like send

3648
03:12:48,520 --> 03:12:52,240
Speaker 9: observers out to protests to kind of document state violence

3649
03:12:52,959 --> 03:12:55,880
Speaker 9: that they have done, some made for asylum seekers. It

3650
03:12:55,959 --> 03:12:59,160
Speaker 9: has grown massively, like it's doubled and they're doubled again

3651
03:12:59,280 --> 03:13:01,920
Speaker 9: in the last day in terms of membership right, and

3652
03:13:02,000 --> 03:13:05,000
Speaker 9: there have been attempts to ban it from the domestic

3653
03:13:05,160 --> 03:13:07,920
Speaker 9: right in Germany. I've linked to one of their after

3654
03:13:08,120 --> 03:13:10,200
Speaker 9: ones in the show notes of people want to read it.

3655
03:13:10,920 --> 03:13:15,680
Speaker 9: But it being undbanked is effectively going to be fatal

3656
03:13:15,760 --> 03:13:18,320
Speaker 9: for the organization, right like it can't provide legal aid,

3657
03:13:18,360 --> 03:13:21,600
Speaker 9: It can't provide legal support if it doesn't have a

3658
03:13:21,640 --> 03:13:23,600
Speaker 9: place to store its money. I mean, I guess it

3659
03:13:23,640 --> 03:13:26,039
Speaker 9: could just have a big box of cash, but it's

3660
03:13:26,120 --> 03:13:27,680
Speaker 9: going to make it very hard for the organization to

3661
03:13:27,800 --> 03:13:30,560
Speaker 9: take donations or to allocate that the money that it has.

3662
03:13:31,280 --> 03:13:33,760
Speaker 9: So this is something we might see more right certainly

3663
03:13:33,840 --> 03:13:36,880
Speaker 9: in Germany because Anti for aust is the organization that

3664
03:13:37,040 --> 03:13:41,640
Speaker 9: was sanctioned, but potentially also in other places. Talking of

3665
03:13:41,800 --> 03:13:46,040
Speaker 9: having no money, here are advertisements that can liberate you

3666
03:13:46,320 --> 03:13:47,160
Speaker 9: of some of yours.

3667
03:13:58,520 --> 03:14:01,120
Speaker 2: So for one of our last stories, I would like

3668
03:14:01,280 --> 03:14:04,880
Speaker 2: to discuss one of the bigger news stories from the

3669
03:14:05,240 --> 03:14:07,520
Speaker 2: end of the year, but something we did not have

3670
03:14:07,640 --> 03:14:10,320
Speaker 2: time to discuss in our last ed of twenty twenty five,

3671
03:14:10,600 --> 03:14:14,880
Speaker 2: and this is the Turtle Island Liberation Front. An episode

3672
03:14:15,000 --> 03:14:18,520
Speaker 2: next week will be going into even more detail, but

3673
03:14:19,360 --> 03:14:21,960
Speaker 2: I will go over some of the broad strokes of

3674
03:14:22,440 --> 03:14:28,640
Speaker 2: the Turtle Island Liberation Front alleged bombing plot. On December twelfth,

3675
03:14:28,879 --> 03:14:31,680
Speaker 2: the FBI arrested four people in southern California, who the

3676
03:14:31,720 --> 03:14:34,720
Speaker 2: government claims are members of a left wing activist group

3677
03:14:34,879 --> 03:14:38,640
Speaker 2: called the Turtle Island Liberation Front. The criminal complaint, signed

3678
03:14:38,640 --> 03:14:40,840
Speaker 2: on December thirteenth by an FBI agent working at the

3679
03:14:40,959 --> 03:14:43,640
Speaker 2: Joint Terrorism Task Force in La alleges that these four

3680
03:14:43,680 --> 03:14:46,480
Speaker 2: individuals conspired an a bombing plot planned for New Year's

3681
03:14:46,520 --> 03:14:50,640
Speaker 2: Eve twenty twenty five. According to the complaint, on November

3682
03:14:50,720 --> 03:14:54,160
Speaker 2: twenty sixth, one of the alleged TILF members I'm gonna

3683
03:14:54,160 --> 03:14:56,040
Speaker 2: say TILF instead of the full name from now on,

3684
03:14:56,800 --> 03:15:01,720
Speaker 2: named Audrey Irene Carrol, gave an eight payge handwritten document

3685
03:15:01,959 --> 03:15:06,880
Speaker 2: titled Operation Midnight Sun outlining the plan for the bombing

3686
03:15:07,000 --> 03:15:10,760
Speaker 2: to a confidential human source who works for the FBI

3687
03:15:11,000 --> 03:15:14,840
Speaker 2: as an informant. The criminal complaint says this of the

3688
03:15:14,920 --> 03:15:18,240
Speaker 2: confidential human source quote. The confidential human source is cooperating

3689
03:15:18,240 --> 03:15:21,720
Speaker 2: with law enforcement and is a validated and vetted source.

3690
03:15:22,320 --> 03:15:25,199
Speaker 2: The confidential human source has been a reliable source information

3691
03:15:25,400 --> 03:15:30,560
Speaker 2: since in or around August twenty twenty one. The confidential

3692
03:15:30,640 --> 03:15:35,200
Speaker 2: human sources cooperating for financial compensation. The confidential human source

3693
03:15:35,240 --> 03:15:37,920
Speaker 2: does not have any criminal history. The confidential human source

3694
03:15:37,959 --> 03:15:42,080
Speaker 2: provided past reliable reporting on other cases and has provided

3695
03:15:42,160 --> 03:15:44,600
Speaker 2: reliable reporting in this case.

3696
03:15:45,040 --> 03:15:45,560
Speaker 8: En quote.

3697
03:15:46,240 --> 03:15:49,640
Speaker 2: The plan was for teams of four on the ground

3698
03:15:49,720 --> 03:15:54,760
Speaker 2: participants to plant backpacks containing complex pipe bombs quote unquote

3699
03:15:55,000 --> 03:15:59,280
Speaker 2: or IEDs outside of buildings at five locations, targeting two

3700
03:15:59,520 --> 03:16:04,199
Speaker 2: US companies, and then simultaneously detonate the bombs at midnight

3701
03:16:04,360 --> 03:16:07,000
Speaker 2: on New Year's Eve twenty twenty five. There would be

3702
03:16:07,080 --> 03:16:10,040
Speaker 2: an off the ground member assisting the team remotely by

3703
03:16:10,160 --> 03:16:13,279
Speaker 2: listening to police scanners or be stationed in a vehicle

3704
03:16:13,600 --> 03:16:17,199
Speaker 2: in case a quote emergency getaway is needed on quote

3705
03:16:17,240 --> 03:16:20,640
Speaker 2: that's quoting from the plan, and one member of each

3706
03:16:20,840 --> 03:16:24,160
Speaker 2: on the ground team would create graffiti of a red

3707
03:16:24,320 --> 03:16:27,920
Speaker 2: triangle and one message of the team's choosing on the

3708
03:16:28,000 --> 03:16:31,120
Speaker 2: sidewalk closest to the building while the other three are

3709
03:16:31,240 --> 03:16:36,120
Speaker 2: placing the devices. This indictment is a really interesting look

3710
03:16:36,280 --> 03:16:39,320
Speaker 2: at the modern direct action left because it includes a

3711
03:16:39,360 --> 03:16:42,360
Speaker 2: whole bunch of little tidbits like block and d block.

3712
03:16:42,879 --> 03:16:50,680
Speaker 2: It includes the alleged co conspirators ground names like asanoch Ak, Nomad,

3713
03:16:50,959 --> 03:16:54,600
Speaker 2: and kickware, which are their ground names for this action.

3714
03:16:55,840 --> 03:16:58,959
Speaker 2: The criminal complaint states that after making the initial plan,

3715
03:16:59,360 --> 03:17:03,960
Speaker 2: Carol and another individual, Zachary Aaron Page, recruited additional co

3716
03:17:04,160 --> 03:17:07,800
Speaker 2: conspirators who participated in further planning meetups and helped procure

3717
03:17:07,840 --> 03:17:12,400
Speaker 2: bob making materials. On December twelfth, the four defendants traveled

3718
03:17:12,440 --> 03:17:15,280
Speaker 2: to a remote location in the Mohabi Desert with the

3719
03:17:15,360 --> 03:17:19,440
Speaker 2: alleged intent to build and test explosive devices. FBI observed

3720
03:17:19,480 --> 03:17:24,240
Speaker 2: from a surveillance plane and then arrested Carrol Paige, Dante Garfield,

3721
03:17:24,600 --> 03:17:28,640
Speaker 2: and Tina Lai before they completed assembling a functional explosive device.

3722
03:17:29,080 --> 03:17:32,160
Speaker 2: They have since been charged with conspiracy and possession of

3723
03:17:32,240 --> 03:17:34,480
Speaker 2: an unregistered destructive device.

3724
03:17:35,360 --> 03:17:38,440
Speaker 10: As I mentioned in my talking points on December twelfth,

3725
03:17:38,920 --> 03:17:43,720
Speaker 10: a group of individuals, again members of this anti government group,

3726
03:17:43,959 --> 03:17:47,240
Speaker 10: traveled out to the desert to test their explosive devices.

3727
03:17:47,400 --> 03:17:49,560
Speaker 2: They had precursor.

3728
03:17:49,120 --> 03:17:52,680
Speaker 10: Chemicals there and they were going to they were going

3729
03:17:52,720 --> 03:17:56,720
Speaker 10: to create these bombs in the desert. What they are

3730
03:17:56,760 --> 03:17:59,520
Speaker 10: starting to do is put their chemicals and whares and

3731
03:17:59,520 --> 03:18:03,320
Speaker 10: they'll compos out on the table on the table there.

3732
03:18:03,959 --> 03:18:07,400
Speaker 10: This footage that you're watching is from our surveillance plane.

3733
03:18:07,720 --> 03:18:11,560
Speaker 10: And then what happened after this is the Los Angeles

3734
03:18:11,680 --> 03:18:15,320
Speaker 10: FBI swat team, along with the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team

3735
03:18:15,680 --> 03:18:19,000
Speaker 10: moved in and arrested all four subjects without incident.

3736
03:18:19,440 --> 03:18:22,560
Speaker 2: Now, the Turtle Island Liberation Front appears to be a

3737
03:18:22,600 --> 03:18:25,760
Speaker 2: relatively new group, with a social media footprint that only

3738
03:18:25,879 --> 03:18:28,840
Speaker 2: was back to July twenty twenty five. The Instagram page

3739
03:18:28,879 --> 03:18:33,440
Speaker 2: for their LA chapter reads quote liberation through decolonialization and

3740
03:18:33,640 --> 03:18:38,160
Speaker 2: tribal sovereignty unquote. Their most recent post from December twelfth,

3741
03:18:38,400 --> 03:18:41,720
Speaker 2: the day of the arrests, is promoting a quote Palestine

3742
03:18:41,840 --> 03:18:45,600
Speaker 2: pop up market in Culver City. A post from November

3743
03:18:45,640 --> 03:18:48,840
Speaker 2: twenty eighth reads quote if they hurt you, they hurt

3744
03:18:48,959 --> 03:18:53,520
Speaker 2: me too. Our destinies are intertwined. Liberation for one must

3745
03:18:53,640 --> 03:18:57,720
Speaker 2: mean liberation for all. The empire must fall, and from

3746
03:18:57,840 --> 03:19:00,560
Speaker 2: within the belly of the beast, we must be the

3747
03:19:00,640 --> 03:19:04,000
Speaker 2: ones to dismantle it. Revolution is the only way stop

3748
03:19:04,240 --> 03:19:08,800
Speaker 2: quote peaceful protesting unquote, rise up, fight back. We are

3749
03:19:08,879 --> 03:19:13,039
Speaker 2: not outnumbered. They are organized and be ready unquote.

3750
03:19:13,280 --> 03:19:13,480
Speaker 15: Yeah.

3751
03:19:14,120 --> 03:19:18,560
Speaker 2: The FBI source met with two TILF members in late November,

3752
03:19:18,720 --> 03:19:21,240
Speaker 2: Carol and Page, and during this meeting, Carol gave the

3753
03:19:21,680 --> 03:19:26,320
Speaker 2: FBI source the handwritten bombing plot and retained three to

3754
03:19:26,480 --> 03:19:29,960
Speaker 2: four additional copies of this plan. And the plan identified

3755
03:19:30,080 --> 03:19:34,359
Speaker 2: five locations to target as marks with more blank slots

3756
03:19:34,440 --> 03:19:38,519
Speaker 2: on the plan which are captioned add more if enough comrades.

3757
03:19:39,440 --> 03:19:42,760
Speaker 2: According to the criminal complaint, these targets were quote property

3758
03:19:42,840 --> 03:19:46,160
Speaker 2: and facilities operated by two separate companies that are used

3759
03:19:46,280 --> 03:19:51,200
Speaker 2: or engaged in activities affecting interstate and foreign commerce unquote.

3760
03:19:52,120 --> 03:19:56,359
Speaker 2: These are Amazon distribution type facilities. They've not specifically confirmed

3761
03:19:56,400 --> 03:19:58,720
Speaker 2: they are Amazon facilities, but they are these sorts of

3762
03:19:58,879 --> 03:20:01,840
Speaker 2: like global shipping facility. One of the things I find

3763
03:20:01,840 --> 03:20:05,280
Speaker 2: really interesting about this criminal complaint is the way that

3764
03:20:05,360 --> 03:20:10,480
Speaker 2: this FBI agent describes direct action tactics and the Turtle

3765
03:20:10,520 --> 03:20:14,600
Speaker 2: Island Liberation Front members like security practices throughout the planning

3766
03:20:14,760 --> 03:20:18,800
Speaker 2: of this action. This is quoting from the criminal complaint. Quote.

3767
03:20:19,080 --> 03:20:22,879
Speaker 2: The plan described multiple operation security measures the co conspirator

3768
03:20:22,879 --> 03:20:25,280
Speaker 2: should take to conceal their identities, such as the use

3769
03:20:25,320 --> 03:20:27,400
Speaker 2: of a burner phone that would be disposed of after

3770
03:20:27,400 --> 03:20:30,280
Speaker 2: the bombings by quote submerging it in a concrete brick

3771
03:20:30,360 --> 03:20:32,640
Speaker 2: after destroying the sim and then disposing of the brick

3772
03:20:32,680 --> 03:20:33,440
Speaker 2: in a body of water.

3773
03:20:33,680 --> 03:20:33,960
Speaker 8: Quote.

3774
03:20:34,360 --> 03:20:36,160
Speaker 2: The target date of the operation, New Year's Eve was

3775
03:20:36,160 --> 03:20:38,960
Speaker 2: identified as an opportune time because quote fireworks will be

3776
03:20:39,000 --> 03:20:40,640
Speaker 2: going off at the time, so the explosions will be

3777
03:20:40,680 --> 03:20:43,720
Speaker 2: less likely to be noticed as immediately as any normal day.

3778
03:20:43,959 --> 03:20:44,240
Speaker 1: Quote.

3779
03:20:45,080 --> 03:20:49,840
Speaker 2: The plan emphasized that quote absolutely no mistakes can be made.

3780
03:20:50,120 --> 03:20:50,400
Speaker 7: Quote.

3781
03:20:50,840 --> 03:20:53,520
Speaker 2: The plans outline the use of quote unquote black block

3782
03:20:53,840 --> 03:20:57,080
Speaker 2: over top a layer of quote unquote casual gray block

3783
03:20:57,720 --> 03:21:00,400
Speaker 2: on top of normal street clothes, and noted to keep

3784
03:21:00,480 --> 03:21:02,720
Speaker 2: hair very tightly concealed, and to wear gloves for the

3785
03:21:02,760 --> 03:21:07,520
Speaker 2: purpose of avoidance of leaving behind DNA. The plan further

3786
03:21:07,640 --> 03:21:09,920
Speaker 2: instructed that precipins should leave their personal devices at home

3787
03:21:09,959 --> 03:21:12,039
Speaker 2: and make sure that devices were set up to stream

3788
03:21:12,120 --> 03:21:14,960
Speaker 2: a long movie during the time of the attacks as

3789
03:21:15,000 --> 03:21:18,560
Speaker 2: to craft an alibi or quote unquote plausible deniability by

3790
03:21:18,640 --> 03:21:21,720
Speaker 2: having it appear as though the actor was actively using

3791
03:21:21,800 --> 03:21:25,760
Speaker 2: their devices. The plan discussed pre operational surveillance of targets,

3792
03:21:25,920 --> 03:21:29,840
Speaker 2: identification of D block or D clothing locations, and not

3793
03:21:30,040 --> 03:21:35,080
Speaker 2: leaving quote anything other than IED's behind, as they could

3794
03:21:35,120 --> 03:21:38,520
Speaker 2: not quote risk any evidence tracing back to us unquote.

3795
03:21:38,840 --> 03:21:41,119
Speaker 2: The plan also noted the benefit of placing a small

3796
03:21:41,200 --> 03:21:44,640
Speaker 2: tebble in a shoe to alter natural gait to obfiscate

3797
03:21:44,720 --> 03:21:48,480
Speaker 2: their identification. Instructions on how to purchase materials to construct

3798
03:21:48,480 --> 03:21:51,920
Speaker 2: a pipe bomb suggested using cash only, purchasing only in

3799
03:21:51,959 --> 03:21:55,160
Speaker 2: small quantities toward suspicion, and splitting purchases amongst a team

3800
03:21:55,360 --> 03:21:59,400
Speaker 2: rather than individually unquote. This is the type of stuff

3801
03:21:59,400 --> 03:22:02,520
Speaker 2: I find really interesting, is this emphasis and all of

3802
03:22:02,560 --> 03:22:05,800
Speaker 2: these you know, op sec like operational security measures, all

3803
03:22:05,959 --> 03:22:09,840
Speaker 2: while working with an FBI informant from the very start

3804
03:22:09,879 --> 03:22:12,920
Speaker 2: of the operation and then recruiting another one during the

3805
03:22:12,959 --> 03:22:16,440
Speaker 2: planning stages. During a meeting on December seventh, three Turtle

3806
03:22:16,480 --> 03:22:19,640
Speaker 2: Island Liberation Front members at least met both with the

3807
03:22:19,680 --> 03:22:23,840
Speaker 2: confidential human source as well as an undercover FBI employee

3808
03:22:24,520 --> 03:22:28,080
Speaker 2: while trying to recruit more members to join this operation,

3809
03:22:28,640 --> 03:22:31,920
Speaker 2: both of whom accompanied the Turtle Island Liberation Front members

3810
03:22:31,959 --> 03:22:34,199
Speaker 2: as they traveled to the Mohave Desert on December twelfth

3811
03:22:34,440 --> 03:22:38,440
Speaker 2: to allegedly build and test out explosive devices for the

3812
03:22:38,560 --> 03:22:41,920
Speaker 2: direct action. There's a lot more information in the indictment,

3813
03:22:42,000 --> 03:22:43,960
Speaker 2: as well as some news that has happened since then,

3814
03:22:44,080 --> 03:22:47,080
Speaker 2: like an arrest in Louisiana also tied to Turtle Island

3815
03:22:47,120 --> 03:22:51,840
Speaker 2: Liberation Front, but we will discuss those in a future episode.

3816
03:22:52,560 --> 03:22:55,480
Speaker 2: As of now, three defendants in this case have pled

3817
03:22:55,560 --> 03:22:58,480
Speaker 2: not guilty and the fourth is set to be arraigned

3818
03:22:58,600 --> 03:22:59,840
Speaker 2: on January twenty.

3819
03:23:00,560 --> 03:23:02,480
Speaker 14: Are you planning on doing that next week?

3820
03:23:02,520 --> 03:23:02,720
Speaker 8: Here?

3821
03:23:03,280 --> 03:23:05,480
Speaker 2: Yes, there will be an episode next week going into

3822
03:23:05,480 --> 03:23:09,520
Speaker 2: more details about this group, their politics, as well as

3823
03:23:09,560 --> 03:23:14,840
Speaker 2: the FBI undercover and informant and their level of involvement

3824
03:23:15,280 --> 03:23:18,800
Speaker 2: in this action, which has spurred a lot of discourse

3825
03:23:18,840 --> 03:23:21,359
Speaker 2: online about this being a quoe unquote like sting operation,

3826
03:23:21,800 --> 03:23:23,440
Speaker 2: about this being a quote unquote syop.

3827
03:23:24,240 --> 03:23:27,199
Speaker 9: Yeah, I guess I'll just say very briefly, other the FBI,

3828
03:23:27,320 --> 03:23:29,160
Speaker 9: it's not their first time, and it's not their last

3829
03:23:29,200 --> 03:23:31,400
Speaker 9: time probably doing something like this, right, Like, you can

3830
03:23:31,480 --> 03:23:34,560
Speaker 9: look at many other cases and see FBI sort of

3831
03:23:34,640 --> 03:23:36,920
Speaker 9: CI is doing this kind of thing. So I think

3832
03:23:37,680 --> 03:23:40,240
Speaker 9: that context is important here. I just want to finish

3833
03:23:40,320 --> 03:23:44,040
Speaker 9: up with a migration update. First of all, DHS fractured

3834
03:23:44,080 --> 03:23:47,959
Speaker 9: the skull of a protester and blinded him by firing

3835
03:23:48,040 --> 03:23:50,760
Speaker 9: a less and lethal munition into his face at close range.

3836
03:23:50,800 --> 03:23:53,119
Speaker 9: It's Santa Anna this week. I've linked to an article

3837
03:23:53,160 --> 03:23:55,640
Speaker 9: for people who like to read more of that. Secondly,

3838
03:23:55,920 --> 03:23:59,200
Speaker 9: Judge Boseberg, who is the judge over seeing the case

3839
03:23:59,200 --> 03:24:01,640
Speaker 9: about the Alien Enemy Act, ordered the government to provide

3840
03:24:01,680 --> 03:24:05,400
Speaker 9: relief to Venezuelan and sent to SECOT Marco Rubio provided

3841
03:24:05,440 --> 03:24:09,320
Speaker 9: a statement responding that doing so would quote materially damage

3842
03:24:09,400 --> 03:24:13,160
Speaker 9: US foreign policy interests. Essentially, he's saying the state can't

3843
03:24:13,200 --> 03:24:15,680
Speaker 9: comply with the order to provide redress for wrongdoing by

3844
03:24:15,760 --> 03:24:18,400
Speaker 9: returning them, and it can't even give them due process

3845
03:24:18,520 --> 03:24:21,920
Speaker 9: right because it has since kidnapped the president of Venezuela.

3846
03:24:22,640 --> 03:24:26,640
Speaker 9: In related news, senators including Schmidt and Cruz have called

3847
03:24:26,760 --> 03:24:31,800
Speaker 9: for Boseberg's impeachment. Cruz makes these allegations. They're pretty minor,

3848
03:24:32,000 --> 03:24:35,320
Speaker 9: and crucially and very unusually. Both of them have been

3849
03:24:35,400 --> 03:24:38,480
Speaker 9: repudiated by the Administrative Office of the United States Courts,

3850
03:24:39,000 --> 03:24:41,480
Speaker 9: which doesn't normally do this kind of thing, right, But

3851
03:24:41,600 --> 03:24:45,240
Speaker 9: in both cases they've written letters kind of clarifying why

3852
03:24:45,320 --> 03:24:49,080
Speaker 9: Boseberg's conduct is totally normal. Both the Cruz claims related

3853
03:24:49,080 --> 03:24:52,080
Speaker 9: to decisions Boseburg made with which he disagrees. One pertains

3854
03:24:52,200 --> 03:24:54,560
Speaker 9: to a non disclosure order that he gave so that

3855
03:24:54,680 --> 03:24:57,960
Speaker 9: Republican senators would not be notified of subpoenas of their

3856
03:24:58,040 --> 03:25:02,400
Speaker 9: phone records in the fake elector investigation that was called

3857
03:25:02,440 --> 03:25:05,520
Speaker 9: the Arctic Frost investigation at the time that looked at

3858
03:25:05,520 --> 03:25:08,800
Speaker 9: attempts to overturn the twenty twenty United States election. They're

3859
03:25:08,840 --> 03:25:11,800
Speaker 9: also trying to impeach Judge Boardman for a separate decision

3860
03:25:11,840 --> 03:25:13,800
Speaker 9: in which they feel her sentence for a person who

3861
03:25:13,800 --> 03:25:16,920
Speaker 9: played guilty to attending to murder Justice Covenar was too light.

3862
03:25:17,800 --> 03:25:20,160
Speaker 9: And then just today, which is Wednesday of this week

3863
03:25:20,200 --> 03:25:23,160
Speaker 9: as we're recording, the State Department announced on x dot com,

3864
03:25:23,240 --> 03:25:27,120
Speaker 9: the Everything website, that it is pausing visa processing for

3865
03:25:27,240 --> 03:25:30,760
Speaker 9: seventy five countries. Quote whose migrants take welfare from the

3866
03:25:30,800 --> 03:25:34,400
Speaker 9: American people at unacceptable rates. The freeze will remain active

3867
03:25:34,480 --> 03:25:36,440
Speaker 9: until the US can ensure that new immigrants will not

3868
03:25:36,560 --> 03:25:41,080
Speaker 9: extract wealth from the American people. It's not clear what

3869
03:25:41,440 --> 03:25:43,879
Speaker 9: they are talking about. They talking about immigrant non immigrant

3870
03:25:43,920 --> 03:25:46,400
Speaker 9: visas both of the above. Are they talking about people

3871
03:25:46,400 --> 03:25:48,960
Speaker 9: who have violated the public charge rule or they just

3872
03:25:49,080 --> 03:25:52,680
Speaker 9: feel that any access of any benefit of state support

3873
03:25:53,200 --> 03:25:57,119
Speaker 9: is quote unquote extracting wealth from the American people. If

3874
03:25:57,200 --> 03:25:59,320
Speaker 9: you do not know what the public charge rule is,

3875
03:25:59,520 --> 03:26:02,480
Speaker 9: luckily to you, I made a podcast about it in

3876
03:26:02,640 --> 03:26:06,600
Speaker 9: November of twenty twenty four, so you can scroll all

3877
03:26:06,720 --> 03:26:08,560
Speaker 9: the way back more than a year and find that.

3878
03:26:08,640 --> 03:26:10,600
Speaker 9: I'll try and find it for you and include a

3879
03:26:10,680 --> 03:26:11,560
Speaker 9: link in the show notes.

3880
03:26:12,040 --> 03:26:12,879
Speaker 8: I think what's.

3881
03:26:12,760 --> 03:26:17,360
Speaker 9: Crucial here is that this will reduce dramatically the rate

3882
03:26:17,440 --> 03:26:21,520
Speaker 9: of which migrants access government services right, which are often

3883
03:26:21,760 --> 03:26:24,640
Speaker 9: very beneficial, especially when it comes to things like child nutrition,

3884
03:26:24,879 --> 03:26:29,000
Speaker 9: child welfare services right. Finally, the State Department also posted

3885
03:26:29,040 --> 03:26:30,920
Speaker 9: on x dot com, the Everything website, that it has

3886
03:26:31,080 --> 03:26:34,720
Speaker 9: revoked one hundred thousand visas, including eight thousand student visas,

3887
03:26:34,800 --> 03:26:38,080
Speaker 9: in the last year. We have no way of verifying

3888
03:26:38,320 --> 03:26:41,800
Speaker 9: that if you would like to email us, you could

3889
03:26:41,840 --> 03:26:45,040
Speaker 9: do so. Just email cool Zone Tips at proton dot me.

3890
03:26:45,400 --> 03:26:46,760
Speaker 9: If you want it to be encrypted, you should use

3891
03:26:46,760 --> 03:26:47,920
Speaker 9: a proton mail address as well.

3892
03:26:48,400 --> 03:26:49,280
Speaker 2: We reported the news.

3893
03:26:50,400 --> 03:26:51,320
Speaker 3: We reported the news.

3894
03:26:56,920 --> 03:26:59,920
Speaker 1: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3895
03:27:00,160 --> 03:27:02,000
Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

3896
03:27:02,800 --> 03:27:05,280
Speaker 14: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3897
03:27:05,480 --> 03:27:08,520
Speaker 14: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3898
03:27:08,600 --> 03:27:12,160
Speaker 14: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3899
03:27:12,280 --> 03:27:15,800
Speaker 14: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3900
03:27:15,879 --> 03:27:18,160
Speaker 14: now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly

3901
03:27:18,240 --> 03:27:20,480
Speaker 14: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.