WEBVTT - Terrorism Concerns: Josh Campbell Talks To A&G

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<v Speaker 1>This next guest comes recommended by our friend Mike Lyons,

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<v Speaker 1>who we've been talking to for years about anything that

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<v Speaker 1>happens military wise. He said, you got to get Josh

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<v Speaker 1>Campbell on Josh Campbell's CNN Security correspondent, former FBI counter

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<v Speaker 1>terrorism agent, Navy veteran. It says, here, friend of the

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<v Speaker 1>Armstrong in Getty Show. For over fifteen years, you've been

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<v Speaker 1>a listener, Josh, Welcome to the show. How you doing?

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<v Speaker 2>I have Jack, It's a pleasure to be on listening

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<v Speaker 2>a long time. And if you indulgent me just a

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<v Speaker 2>quick story. I actually learned about the A and G show.

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<v Speaker 2>I was on a FBI team that was working overseas

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<v Speaker 2>counterterrorism cases. And it was actually a Navy seal who said, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>you guys have to listen to the show.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm in La, so I'm already a Californian.

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<v Speaker 2>But one story in particular, we were out on counter

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<v Speaker 2>terrorism mission and you know, you have your logistics. An

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<v Speaker 2>important part of that is how do you feed your crew?

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<v Speaker 2>And this defense contractor who's responsible for our food screwed

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<v Speaker 2>up and they basically had an entire case of hot

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<v Speaker 2>dogs as our food. And this just happened to coincide

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<v Speaker 2>as we're sitting around the campfire listening to the travails

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<v Speaker 2>of positive Sean and his hot dog episode. So there

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<v Speaker 2>were we were, you know, listening eating our twentieth hot

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<v Speaker 2>dog of the week, thinking, man, we feel your pain.

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<v Speaker 3>Brother.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, that's what I paid our producer, Sean one

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<v Speaker 1>thousand bucks if he could eat seventy hot dogs in

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<v Speaker 1>a week, which you did, and I paid him a

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<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars. So you're in LA. You're listening to us

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<v Speaker 1>then on KABC in Los Angeles, which we are proud

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<v Speaker 1>to be on. I was in LA the other night.

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<v Speaker 1>I was at LAX, and Lax had that feeling that

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<v Speaker 1>the airports have sometimes when security is ramped up a bit,

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<v Speaker 1>am I imagining that or not with the FBI say,

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<v Speaker 1>and all lights are blinking for terrorism attack and all

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<v Speaker 1>that sort of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>No, you are, you know, since the attack by Hamas

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<v Speaker 2>on Israel, I mean we've seen that then reverberate across

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<v Speaker 2>the country. I was using across the world where you

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<v Speaker 2>have intelligence services, security services around the world now on

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<v Speaker 2>a high alert to include here in the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the FBI director recently said that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>anti Semitism. What the FBI is seeing is unlike anything

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<v Speaker 2>uh that it seems certainly in the modern era.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>And so you know, they are prepared for any type

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<v Speaker 2>of attack. I mean, we know that there are different

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<v Speaker 2>types of terrorism. You have you know, cells and groups,

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<v Speaker 2>but a particular concern to the FBI is the so

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<v Speaker 2>called lone wolf and that's someone out there who you know,

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<v Speaker 2>is online, who's on the receiving end of all of this,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, vitriol and garbage and you know, all the

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<v Speaker 2>anti anti Semitism that we're seeing, who might opt to

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<v Speaker 2>actually act with violence. And so that's something certainly that

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<v Speaker 2>they're watching.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the lone wolf thing, which I know is is

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<v Speaker 1>a hard thing to stop for obvious reasons. And then

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<v Speaker 1>you get a porous border also. Uh so you know

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<v Speaker 1>a cell coming together doesn't seem like a big stretch.

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<v Speaker 3>No, you're right, I mean, that's I have to tell you.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that is one particular concern is you know,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously when you talk about people coming into the United

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<v Speaker 2>States who the government isn't able to keep tabs on,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that is a lucrative mode of entry, so

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<v Speaker 2>to speak. You know, if you're a terrorist group, wondering

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<v Speaker 2>how you actually secrete people in the United States. That's

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<v Speaker 2>obviously one vector. I mean, go to the place where

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<v Speaker 2>you know, people aren't being screened, or if there is screening,

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<v Speaker 2>it's you know, it's very cursory.

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<v Speaker 3>And so you know that that's something interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously when we talk about immigration, I mean I don't

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<v Speaker 2>cover politics for CNN, but I cover security, and that

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<v Speaker 2>is certainly a concern.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously, they're the the immigration laws that have been debated,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, for for years and years. But on the

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<v Speaker 2>security side of the House, law enforcement, the FBI, state police,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, along the border, they're certainly concerned that among

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<v Speaker 2>you know, people coming to the United States, it could

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<v Speaker 2>be people trying to cause ill intent and that's a

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<v Speaker 2>great vector to try to get someone in the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>So you talked about chatter and the and the FBI

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<v Speaker 1>Director Ray saying he hasn't seen all the lights flashing

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<v Speaker 1>like this since nine eleven. What other than posts on

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<v Speaker 1>Twitter and Facebook are you guys talking about when you

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<v Speaker 1>say you know, all the lights are blinking.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I'll give you an example.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we've seen, you know, threats to Jewish institutions

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<v Speaker 2>here in the United States, both physical threats that have

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<v Speaker 2>manifested in vandalism and destruction, but also the online threats.

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<v Speaker 2>And just to give you an example, you know, I've

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<v Speaker 2>been reporting throughout this week. Over this past weekend, from

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<v Speaker 2>Saturday to Monday, there were over four hundred Jewish institutions

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<v Speaker 2>in the US that received bomb threats. And you can imagine,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I've been speaking with Jewish leaders who say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they're going about their services, all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>they receive a message saying that there is a incendiary

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<v Speaker 2>device in your institution that's going to go off. You

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<v Speaker 2>can imagine just the widespread chaos and fear and panic

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<v Speaker 2>that that would cause. And you know, you scale that

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<v Speaker 2>to over four hundred institutions, that's certainly something that law

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<v Speaker 2>enforcement is taking seriously. We're told that there are over

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<v Speaker 2>thirty FBI field offices in the US that are currently

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<v Speaker 2>investigating those threats. And you know, interestingly, as the FBI

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<v Speaker 2>conducted its investigation, they learned that this particular wave of threats,

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<v Speaker 2>the four hundred, were actually coming from overseas. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I talked with the Anti Defamation League. They actually have

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<v Speaker 2>their own threat watchers who are going onto the dark

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<v Speaker 2>web trying to find you know, these groups that are

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<v Speaker 2>that are talking about, you know, conducting these types of

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<v Speaker 2>threats in order to try to get that information to

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<v Speaker 2>law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 3>And they said that one of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Typical profiles that they're seeinger these groups are actually young gamers,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, people who are in these online gaming communities

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<v Speaker 2>who are you know, spewing hate and then you know,

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<v Speaker 2>get together and try to get attention and then go,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, do these types of digital threats in order

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<v Speaker 2>to try to see you know, the fear you know

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<v Speaker 2>that they that they'll cause, and you know, even more sinister.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, a lot of these online services are streamed

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<v Speaker 2>online and so you know, these perpetrators can actually watch

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<v Speaker 2>in real time the chaos and fear, and so it's

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<v Speaker 2>certainly something that's very serious. It's it's a challenge for

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<v Speaker 2>law enforcement when you're talking about digital threats.

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<v Speaker 3>Obviously, the relative anonymity of the Internet makes that challenging.

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<v Speaker 2>That said, the FBI and local law enforcement has had

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<v Speaker 2>successes in recent months, including right here in southern California

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<v Speaker 2>and Orange County. Just last week, the FBI arrested a

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<v Speaker 2>juvenile who was making threats to Jewish institutions, to African

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<v Speaker 2>American churches, and they said that this juvenile was part

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<v Speaker 2>of an online ring of people who are calling in threats,

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<v Speaker 2>and so they have seen successes, but these cases certainly

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<v Speaker 2>very difficult.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got a friend who's in your line of work

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<v Speaker 1>to be vague and always talks about trying to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out if somebody is a keyboard warrior or an actual threat.

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<v Speaker 1>That's got to be the real difficult thing. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>cause it's really easy to shoot your mouth off as

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<v Speaker 1>a gamer where your head set to your friends and

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<v Speaker 1>sound like a tough guy, and try to figure out

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<v Speaker 1>whether that person is, you know, just shooting their mouth

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<v Speaker 1>off or danger. How the heck do you ever figure

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<v Speaker 1>that out?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's difficult. I mean, in the security world,

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<v Speaker 2>you're looking for two things. You're looking for capability and intent.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, someone who has the actual capability to cause harm,

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<v Speaker 2>if they don't have the intent to do so, they're

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<v Speaker 2>obviously know less of a threat. Someone who has the

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<v Speaker 2>intent to kill people but isn't capable of doing so,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, that's obviously something that that could be mitigated.

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<v Speaker 2>But when you couple those together, someone who is dangerous

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<v Speaker 2>and has the ability to go out and cause destruction

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<v Speaker 2>or to hurt people. You know, that's something that's certainly

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<v Speaker 2>law enforcement is constantly trying to look for and chafing

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<v Speaker 2>when you talk about you know, words and you know speaking.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when I was in the FBI. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that was a constant challenge. Where do you reach that

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<v Speaker 2>threshold from someone who's just spouting off, you know, to

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<v Speaker 2>actually someone who's inciting inciting violence. And you know, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not a lawyer like Joe almost with the law school,

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<v Speaker 2>but that was a constant challenge. You know what what

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<v Speaker 2>is it that gets you over that threshold? And it's certainly,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, very difficult.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, it's funny. I got a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>questions for you, but I don't want to ask them

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<v Speaker 1>because I don't want you to answer them. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>make people any any ideas or or know that you're

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<v Speaker 1>onto them. One thing I think often when I'm at

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<v Speaker 1>airports and I see the security is I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>we're so focused on like airports are the only thing

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<v Speaker 1>you can attack it. The only way you can possibly

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<v Speaker 1>ever kill people is with a plane or at an airport.

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<v Speaker 1>When obviously, there are lots of options out there is

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<v Speaker 1>security amped up in a lot of other arenas that

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<v Speaker 1>we just don't see outside of flying.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, there's the scene and the unseen. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean that security posture that you see at an airport,

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<v Speaker 2>for example. A lot of that is to serve as

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<v Speaker 2>a deterrent. You know, when you roll up to lax

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<v Speaker 2>and you see you know the airport police officers there

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<v Speaker 2>who are doing their random checks. You know, they'll stop

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<v Speaker 2>every tenth or twelfth car or whatever it is. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of that is just to serve as a deterrent. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're intent on causing harm here, you may be

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<v Speaker 2>the person that gets caught up, you know, in this net.

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<v Speaker 2>But there are a lot of you know, systems out there,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of intelligence collection platforms that are used that

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<v Speaker 2>tried to detect threats, and a lot of it, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>can be after the fact. I mean, I'll give you an

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<v Speaker 2>example of you know, here, there was a serial killer,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, here in Los Angeles in the last couple

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<v Speaker 2>of weeks, and this person was stopped by the Beverly

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<v Speaker 2>Hills Police Department because the department had installed license plate

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<v Speaker 2>scanners and so they had this technology that was in

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<v Speaker 2>place that wasn't a tent on signing any pot for

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<v Speaker 2>their person, but it helped after the fact because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>at one of the scenes of one of these killings,

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<v Speaker 2>they cops got a license plate, they entered it into

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<v Speaker 2>the system. The moment that guy popped driving through Beverly Hills,

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<v Speaker 2>they were able to go and capture him. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>that's after the fact, right after the person's already done

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<v Speaker 2>certain crimes, and.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're up against a hard break. Josh and I

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<v Speaker 1>want to have time to say thank you very much

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<v Speaker 1>for coming on, and we would love to have you

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<v Speaker 1>on a lot more during this next year. Glad to

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<v Speaker 1>get to know you, and thanks for listening all these years.

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<v Speaker 1>Josh Campbell's CNN security correspondent. You're going to hear a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more from him in future episode.