1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Hey, lady, is doctor dim here. If you like this 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: show and you want to make your own, let me 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: tell you about the free platform Anchor. It's a creation 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: right from your phone or computer. You can add songs 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: from Spotify and create any type of content that you 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: are looking for. Anchor will distribute it all for you 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more. 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor dot 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: fm to get started. 11 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: On this week's episode in her space. So for me, 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 2: it was a big conversation. So I text her picture 13 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: and she looked at it and she's like, no, it 14 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 2: looks professional, it looks good. But I think about back 15 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: to policing our hair, right, like wondering like am I 16 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: going to be viewed a certain way because I'm showing 17 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: up with my hair in this natural state? Right? And 18 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: so it just makes me question and kind of challenge 19 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: society in general, not that society will listen, but like, 20 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: why is black hair acceptable in this natural state? Why 21 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: can't I come in with an afro? And this is 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: in our community as well, because I know family members 23 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: were like, girl, do something with your hair. And they 24 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: remember they gave Beyonce's daughter Blue Ivy such a hard time, 25 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: like just so me, people online like, oh, she need 26 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 2: to do her hair? How about her hairs in her 27 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 2: natural goddamn site? And she gonna have her edges when 28 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: she's twenty one, right, because she ain't doing all the 29 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: extra stuff. Because that's a whole other story when it 30 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 2: comes to edges. 31 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 3: In the stress that we put on our hair to 32 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 3: meet certain beauty standards. 33 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, been there, done that. 34 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 3: So welcome to her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting 35 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 3: women like you. We're your hosts doctor Dominique Broussard, a 36 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 3: college professor and psychologist. 37 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a 38 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please 39 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from 40 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: five to fake friends, and create a safe space where 41 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 2: black women can just be. 42 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 3: Who y'all? Today, we got a touchy topic, so we're 43 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 3: just gonna dive right in. Our quote of the day 44 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 3: comes from India. Irine, I am not my hair or 45 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: am I my hair? We could go back and forth 46 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 3: in a debate on how much of your hair really 47 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 3: is a part of who you are talking about Black 48 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: women and our hair brings up so much. And in 49 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 3: case somehow you don't already know, it's never okay to 50 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 3: reach out your hand and touch a black woman's hair 51 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 3: without permission. I mean, seriously, how was that ever a thing? 52 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 3: That's my sentiment, Terry, I know that's your sentiment, that's 53 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 3: a sentiment of thousands of black women across the world. 54 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 3: And just to be accurate in our where we get 55 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: our information from, I want to note that that was 56 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 3: a quote from a Refinery twenty nine article. 57 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: And to take it way back and yes, I echo 58 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 2: all of the sentiments, all the sentiments that you just 59 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: shared dom for sure. And just to take it back 60 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: to history just a little bit before we dive on 61 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: into the conversation and the early African civilizations. Hairstyles could 62 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: indicate a person's family background, tribe, or social status, and 63 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: just about everything about a person's identity could be learned 64 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: by looking at the hair. This is a quote by 65 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: journalist Lorie Thurps, who co wrote the book Hair Story 66 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: about the history of black hair. 67 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: Well, since we're taking it there and we're talking about history, 68 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: did you know that in the late eighteenth century Louisiana, 69 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: black and multiracial women were ordered to cover their hair 70 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: in public. 71 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: I did not, but I feel like I heard it before, 72 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: but I didn't do enough research to really look into it. 73 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: But tell me more. 74 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 3: All right, So just so we're clear on our history, 75 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 3: and just to give us some context too, what we're 76 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 3: going to be talking about today about the importance of 77 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 3: our hair. In the late eighteenth century, there were new 78 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 3: economic opportunities and growth that led to an increase in 79 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: the number of free African and African American women in 80 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 3: New Orleans, and during that time period, women of African 81 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 3: descent were known to wear their hair in elaborate style. 82 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: So you know, we've been flying. We've been at Ben 83 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: Ben since been. It's been, ok, since been. I love it. 84 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: I love it. 85 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: And so when they would incorporate feathers and jewels into 86 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: their hairstyles, they would showcase like that full magic and 87 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 3: glory of what some people call our gravity defying strands. 88 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 3: And oftentimes when we're displaying our magic, particularly during that 89 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 3: time period, it made us appear wealthier than we actually were. 90 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: So you already know, you already know. As a result 91 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 3: these enticing quote unquote enticing styles attracted the attention of men, 92 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: particularly white men. So you know that was problematic. So 93 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 3: to address this problem, in seventeen eighty six, at the time, 94 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 3: Spanish colonial governor Don Esteban miro And acted the Edict 95 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 3: of Good Government, also referred to as the Tennon Laws. 96 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 3: These laws prohibited Creole women of color from displaying excessive 97 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 3: attention to dress in the streets of New Orleans. Now 98 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: what does that mean. Basically, that means that we were 99 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 3: banned from making ourselves look like ourselves. Essentially, there was 100 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 3: a law governing how we were allowed to wear our hair. 101 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 3: It's not surprising, and initially what it automatically brings up 102 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 3: for me when I hear this, hear about this law 103 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 3: because I wasn't really familiar with this. But what it 104 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 3: brings up for me is thinking about how even today 105 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 3: our hair is still policed. 106 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: Isn't that wild to think that you can just be 107 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 2: a human being and your hair grow out of your 108 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: head the natural way that it was meant to grow 109 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 2: out by God, and it can be a political conversation. 110 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: We can't just be, you can't just show up. It 111 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: makes me think about this freaking disturbing video of this 112 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: black wrestler. I don't know if you saw this, but 113 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: you have to google it because it's insane black rest. 114 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: I don't know all the context, but I'll give you 115 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: the gist of what happened. 116 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: Right. 117 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 2: So, he's wrestling, and apparently either the coach or was 118 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: it the referee, some white man that was in charge 119 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: at some point said that he needed to his hair 120 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: was in the way. He needed to cut his I 121 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: believe he had locks or dreads, and he basically said 122 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: right there in the match, in order for him to 123 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: continue to compete, he needs to cut his hair right 124 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: there on the spot, and this black boy decided to. 125 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 2: He wanted to compete, so he decided to go ahead 126 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: and let them just cut his hair. And it was 127 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: just so brutal to watch, and I believe he was 128 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: crying as well. He went on to win, but just 129 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: to think you can't even just wear your damn hair 130 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: the way God made it and it's so traumatized, isn't 131 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: it traumatizing? And we've been through so much with our hair. 132 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: I think about the documentary that Chris Rock narrated called 133 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: Good Hair, and the comedian remember that one Good Hair 134 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: that was so popular in our community, and the comedian 135 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: Paul Mooney states it plainly, and he says, if your 136 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: hair is relaxed, white people are relied. If your hair 137 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: is nappy, they are not happy. And this comes from 138 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: a quote I believe from Vice, the Vice article that 139 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: we'll also link to in the show notes, and it 140 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 2: continues to say a trailer for comedian Chris Rock's documentary 141 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 2: Good Hair, and it continues to say Mooney is pointing 142 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: to the fact that nappy hair is inevitably associated with 143 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: something that is out of reach for white people, happiness. 144 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: When you support your natural hair, you are free, your 145 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: hair is wild, you have a new hairstyle every day, 146 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: you are radiant, you are regal. And these are out 147 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 2: of reach for most people and it makes them unhappy. 148 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: And this is something that was quoted. I actually didn't 149 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: have a chance to really like process the quote, but 150 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: that's their perspective on the quote that was shared. And 151 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 2: for me, I really I think about it and I'm like, 152 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: I really don't even know what the big issue is. 153 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 2: I know that back in the day when black people 154 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: were making political movements, our people wore afros. During the 155 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: Black Panther movement and a lot of the I want 156 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: to say pro black movements, And I think it was 157 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: a way for us to just showcase that we can 158 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 2: we can just be, Like we can just be. We 159 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 2: don't have to conform to your European standards of beauty. 160 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 2: We can just be. And I think even to this day, 161 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: like if you were to walk into certain spaces with 162 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: a big afro, people are gonna look a little. They're 163 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: gonna look a certain way. Like I remember when I 164 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: started wearing my natural hair, and it kind of takes 165 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: me back to even the messages that I got about 166 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: my hair growing up, and I remember learning that my 167 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 2: hair in its natural form and it's not gonna happen 168 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: like I need to do something with it. I need 169 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: to put it in some kind of braids. I need 170 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: to straighten it. I remember when I was younger, the 171 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: creamy crack that good old perm. I could not wait 172 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: to pum my hair. I used to get it pressed 173 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: sometimes and it was like such a big deal to 174 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: wear it out. And I wish you could see me 175 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: right now. But if you kind of tell your head 176 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: back and you wave your heads, or that your hair 177 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: like shakes shake, some clothes on your back. That's what 178 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: we used to love to do as kids. And I 179 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: remember seeing my white friends when we would go swimming 180 00:09:58,320 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 2: or I would go to the house, and I was 181 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: just look their hair, like, damn, they have their hair 182 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: so long that they can just wear it. I want 183 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: to wear my hair like that. And I didn't have 184 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: a great appreciation for my hair because one we didn't 185 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 2: see a lot of natural women in our community, not 186 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 2: me at least in my community. And on TV, everyone 187 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 2: had their hair laid and primed and fried right, laid, permed, 188 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: and fried, and that was the look. And I think 189 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: over time that has changed. But that's one of the 190 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 2: big messages I got about my hair when I was younger. 191 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 2: It's not manageable and it's natural state and something needs 192 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 2: to be done to it. 193 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 3: And I think that now times have shifted, or they're 194 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 3: continuing to shift to a space where we can be 195 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 3: more accepting of our natural hair. Like I think about 196 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 3: for myself when I went natural. Ooh, at this point 197 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 3: like eleven years ago, twelve years ago. It's been a 198 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 3: long time, but at that time period finding natural hair 199 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 3: care products was not a thing like you had to 200 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: go on the internet, and I remember one of my 201 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 3: homegirls had a blog made in shek was the blog 202 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 3: shout Out to my Girl, and that was one of 203 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 3: the first few blogs and websites about natural hair and 204 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 3: the journey of going natural right. And at that time, 205 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 3: like I said, it was hard to find products and 206 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 3: it was hard to I was hard for us to 207 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 3: find a lot of people who would be supportive, because 208 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 3: when you are trying to do something different, it's so 209 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 3: important to have people around you who are supportive. And 210 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 3: so at that time, I remember when I did my 211 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 3: big chop and like I cut all my hair and 212 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 3: my family was not supportive. Fast forward to twenty nineteen, 213 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 3: all my sisters are natural. My sister who was probably 214 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 3: the most outspoken, most oppositional, her daughters wear their hair natural. 215 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 3: So it's interesting to me how time shifts. Right. So, 216 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: like you mentioned earlier, like in the late sixties and seventies, 217 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: wearing afrols and wearing your hair natural was a thing 218 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 3: that was the thing to do to show pride in 219 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 3: your blackness. And so I think about how our hair 220 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 3: evolves or like not our hair itself, but how we 221 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 3: style our hair and what's in fashion for our hair, 222 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 3: how it evolves with the times. I'm just grateful that 223 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 3: we're in a space where now, like we can wear 224 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 3: our hair in a way that in any way that 225 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 3: works for us. Right. So I can wear my natural hair, 226 00:12:54,800 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 3: and it's cool. I see so many sisters with wes 227 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 3: and braids and all kinds of different ways of wearing 228 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 3: their hair, and it's cool. 229 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: I think back to when I was in college. One 230 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 2: of my girlfriends, she went natural. She did the big chop, 231 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 2: and she was telling me about her journey, and I 232 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: was so inspired by it, and I was like, oh 233 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 2: my gosh, I'm on this journey of really just self discovery. 234 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: And I felt like, you know what, hair has always 235 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 2: sort of been a crutch for me. It's like I 236 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: always got to get longer hair. I got to figure 237 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 2: out how I can make it grow, and like, the 238 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: hair was a very big part of my identity. And 239 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: I've my mom used to get me and my sister's 240 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 2: hair done ever since we were younger. So I've always 241 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: I've worne weave at a young age, and I would 242 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 2: wear my natural hair as well. But we were so 243 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 2: I was so accustomed to getting it done. It was 244 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: like this big thing it was like, oh, I'm getting 245 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: braids for Easter. I'm going to get them curled. And 246 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 2: it was always an ordeal, like a five to nine 247 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: hour event right of getting the hair done, and it 248 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 2: was so exciting to me. And I think that is 249 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: stuck with me, which explains my current just my hair 250 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: journey in general. But when I think back to my 251 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: friend telling me about her going natural, I was so inspired. 252 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: And I remember being at college. I think I was 253 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 2: a junior in college. I didn't tell my family and 254 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: I was like, fuck it. So we put the camera up. 255 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 2: She chopped my hair off and I literally had like 256 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 2: a low cut. It was literally like you could see 257 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: my scalp, it was so short. And I remember that 258 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 2: night I drove to Walmart and I was like, Okay, 259 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 2: I'm happy with what I did, but what the fuck 260 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: did I do? I remember going to Walmart and I 261 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: felt like everybody was staring at me. I'm like, hey, 262 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: don't nobody know I just cut my hair. I felt 263 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: so paranoid. I remember getting a head wrap so I 264 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: could like ease myself into it. But when I went home, 265 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: people my family was so rude, Like I remember one 266 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: of my uncles was like, you ain't never gonna get married? 267 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: What you do? Why you cut all your pretty hair off? 268 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: I had one of my cousins says, some rude shit. 269 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: People thought I was like gay or like, you know, 270 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: they said I was having like a what is it? 271 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 2: A nervous breakdown? Like oh you like it was just 272 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: like all this stuff, and I'm like, y'all, it's literally 273 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 2: just hair. Why does it have to be all these 274 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: other things that it can't be just me defying the 275 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 2: standard of beauty that I've subject to all this time 276 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: and just freeing myself. Why can't it be that? And 277 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: I posted my video on YouTube and very quickly I 278 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 2: got like ten thousand views because it was such a 279 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: new thing and women were looking. It was like a 280 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 2: movement within our community, and women were like, I want 281 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: to find other people to connect with around this, and 282 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: I think so many bloggers and YouTubers really got their 283 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 2: start around that time, which is really exciting. But it 284 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 2: was like a very big thing. It was a big conversation, 285 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: got a lot of looks, but it was so liberating 286 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 2: for me. And I've been able to transition my hair. 287 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: I'm so natural, but I've been able to do different 288 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: things with my hair from that time. But I will 289 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: never go back to the creamy crack, like I'll never 290 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: get a perm again, because I just love my hair 291 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: texture and I have a great appreciation for my curls 292 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: and all that good stuff. 293 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 3: And I think, like you said, I think that it's 294 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 3: a journey. But I want to go back to what 295 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: you said about how like some of the rule things 296 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 3: that people said and how we associate our hair with 297 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 3: like gender identity. That's so it's ignorant, that's so problematic, 298 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 3: And I encourage people to go back and listen to 299 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 3: our two episodes with doctor Janina Garrett Walker where she 300 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 3: kind of lets us know what we have how problematic. 301 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: A lot of that is right to insinuate that because 302 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 3: you cut your hair off, there's a mental health issue. 303 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 3: So again, like we're saying that if someone has a 304 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 3: mental health issue, that's a problem. To say that some 305 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 3: to say that someone is not conforming to traditional gender 306 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 3: identity norms, that's a problem, and our hair is indicative 307 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 3: of that. 308 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 2: It's ridiculous. 309 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 3: No, our hair is about expressing our love. 310 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: For self and it's no one else's business, right, And 311 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: I listened to a lot of ndira, I am not 312 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: my hair because I really had to get like that 313 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 2: was actually the background of my YouTube video that got 314 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: flagged because I didn't own the rights. But anyway, that 315 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 2: was that was so important to me, and I think 316 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: about even the guys that I attracted was very different. Yes, 317 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: I attracted a lot of older men or more mature men, 318 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 2: or more conscious men. When I did have my my 319 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 2: shortcut or my t w A because it was it 320 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 2: was definitely like an awkward face for me. Growing it 321 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 2: back out, it was just so much more healthier and beautiful. 322 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: And also, as a side note, no shame to anyone 323 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 2: that gets perms. That was just that was just my opinion, 324 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 2: and I've had a bad experience with it just damaging 325 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 2: our hair and also seeping into our brain, like it 326 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 2: gets deep when you think about the chemicals and the perms. 327 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 2: So no no judgment at all. When I say creamy crack, 328 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: that was just like that. 329 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 3: That's a common colloquial, yeah, And but that raises a 330 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 3: good point that we do have to be mindful of 331 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 3: the common words that we use. That yes, us calling 332 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 3: a relaxed creamy crack. For a lot of us, that 333 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 3: might be that could be offensive for sure, and so yeah, 334 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 3: we just do have to kind of be mindful of, Yeah, 335 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 3: the words that we use and the effect that it 336 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 3: might be having on those who still. 337 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: Use exactly, very true, very very true. I probably won't 338 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: be using that one anymore because now it kind of 339 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 2: makes me more conscious of that. See, we are growing 340 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 2: and evolving. But I do want to say I had 341 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 2: this moment in life. When I look back on it now, 342 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: it kind of it really saddens me. But I remember 343 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 2: when I was job searching a few years ago, and 344 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 2: I remember I was preparing for my interview. I'm like extra. 345 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 2: I'm not extra, but I pick out my clothes before 346 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 2: the night before. I'm trying on everything, making sure it 347 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: fits right to go. I got my resume, my little 348 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: you know, purse and all that. Now I remember thinking, 349 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 2: oh shit, what am I going to do with my hair? 350 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 2: That has been a question that's been like the bang 351 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:40,959 Speaker 2: of my existence. What am I going to do with 352 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: my hair for an event, for speaking engagement? Whatever is 353 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: my hair done? What am I going to do with it? 354 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 2: Thank God for head wraps though, because head wraps make 355 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 2: it all easy. But at this point, I remember I 356 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 2: didn't have like I didn't have my hair done done, 357 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: I want to say, but what I was thinking about 358 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: doing is pulling it back into a ponytail. And for me, 359 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 2: that means if it's not straightened, disc I'm going to 360 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 2: have an afro puff, like a nice little curly afro puff. 361 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 2: And so I remember calling my mentor and I was like, 362 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 2: I want to send you a picture. I have an 363 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 2: interview tomorrow. Is it appropriate to wear my hair and 364 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: a ponytail? Why didn't you? I don't think a lot 365 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 2: of other people have to consider her ask themselves like, 366 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: cannot wear my hair and the ponies out for an 367 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 2: interview because your hair is acceptable in this natural state, right. 368 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 2: So for me, it was a big conversation. So I 369 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: text her picture and she looked at it and she's like, no, 370 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: it looks professional, it looks good. But I think about 371 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: back to policing our hair, right, like wondering like am 372 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: I going to be viewed a certain way because I'm 373 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: showing up with my hair in this natural state? 374 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: Right? 375 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: And so it just makes me question and kind of 376 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,239 Speaker 2: challenge society in general, not that society will listen, but like, 377 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: why isn't black hair acceptable in this natural state. Why 378 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 2: can't I come in with an afro? And this is 379 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: in our community as well, because I know family members 380 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: were like, girl, do something with your hair, and they 381 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 2: remember they gave Beyonce's daughter Blue Ivy such a hard time, 382 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 2: Like just so me. People online like, oh, she need 383 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 2: to do her hair. How about her hairs in her 384 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 2: natural goddamn state? And she's gonna have her edges when 385 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 2: she's twenty one, right because she ain't doing all the 386 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 2: extra stuff. Because that's a whole other story. When it 387 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 2: comes to. 388 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 3: Edges and the stress that we put on our hair 389 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 3: to meet certain beauty standards. 390 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, been there, done that. So as far as like perming, 391 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 2: let's just talk about all the things that we've done, right, 392 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: So perming my edges, like making sure that that junk 393 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: is like laid down and fried down. 394 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 3: Done that. 395 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: Using glue in my hair. I don't do that anymore. 396 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 2: But I used to use like the black hair glue, 397 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 2: the track glue girl used to get stuck in my hair. 398 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 2: I had cut out weaves and been so impatient that 399 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 2: no one was there to help me that I end 400 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 2: up cutting braids by mistake and missing the the what 401 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: is it? The thread. I remember when my mom when 402 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 2: I was younger, when she was locked up, I was 403 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: left to my own devices. My dad didn't really do 404 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 2: hair like that, and I would do my own hair. 405 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: So I remember going out the house gonna hot mess 406 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 2: several times. But for me growing up being in charging 407 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 2: my own hair for so much time, I ended up 408 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 2: really damaging my edges, and like I suffered from traction 409 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 2: alopecia to the point where my hairline was I mean 410 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: a lot of my hair was just gone. It was 411 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 2: balding and would not grow back. For me ever since 412 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 2: I was about fifteen years old, I've always wanted to 413 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 2: do something about my edges. And I remember my edges 414 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 2: were so bad. I mean, I already have a prominent forehead, 415 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 2: which I'm very proud of because I heard the pretty 416 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 2: smart women have big foreheads, just saying but no, I 417 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 2: have a prominent forehead, and that's what I tell myself 418 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 2: to make myself feel better about my big forehead. But anyway, 419 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 2: when my edges were gone, it looked like I had 420 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 2: I mean, my forehead looked like it started in the 421 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: middle of my head. It was very bad because I 422 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 2: didn't have edges, and so I remember what. Ever, since 423 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: I was younger, I would have to like swipe, not swipe, 424 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 2: but swoop my hair down into certain styles and maneuver it. 425 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: And as I got older, I was like, I really 426 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 2: want to do something about this, And I looked up 427 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 2: a hair transplant online and I was like, let me 428 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 2: look this up. So when I was in right after 429 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 2: I graduated school, I looked it up, found a doctor 430 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 2: and he was just too expensive. At that point, I 431 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: literally just left out of school. I was like, I 432 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: don't have the money. And so funny story. A few years, 433 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 2: maybe like four years or so after that, moving to 434 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 2: San Francisco put me closer to that same doctor our 435 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: researched years ago. And I think in December it'll be 436 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: I think three years since I've had my personal hair transplant. 437 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 2: So I have my edges done so that I actually 438 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 2: have like hair there. So we'll at a link in 439 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 2: the show notes. I did a whole blog post, like 440 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 2: a whole YouTube series on that process, like literally walking 441 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 2: you through. So I got some crazy YouTube photos of 442 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 2: me out there. But I've shared my story and so 443 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 2: many women have reached out saying, girl, like can I 444 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 2: get the details? Like I'm struggling with traction alopecia or 445 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: just alopecia in general. And I think it's something that's 446 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 2: really big in our community because of the pressure we 447 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 2: have when it comes to our hair and what we've 448 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 2: done to sort of maintain that status. 449 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 3: So for those of us that might not be aware, 450 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 3: can you talk to us a little bit about what 451 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 3: is alopecia? 452 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 2: Ooh, So I don't want to give like a general definition, 453 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: I would say google alopecia. I know for traction alopecia, 454 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 2: that's the one I could definitely speak to like a 455 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 2: little bit more eloquently. And traction alopecia is basically hair 456 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: loss due to friction. Hair loss due to friction. So 457 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 2: for me, it's like I used to put rubber bands 458 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: in my hair and pull my hair back, growl tight 459 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 2: and just like just pull it so hard. And so 460 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,719 Speaker 2: from all that traction over the years, it pulled out 461 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 2: hair foul cules and they just didn't grow back anymore. 462 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 2: It was like, sorry, we out, like we're not coming back. 463 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 2: And so there was nothing I could do. I tried 464 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: to cast or oils, I tried the do grow I 465 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,719 Speaker 2: tried all the potions and oils on planet Earth. No, 466 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: but I tried a lot of things and it didn't work. 467 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 2: So that was the option that worked best for me, 468 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: and it is one of the best decisions I could 469 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: have made. 470 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 3: And so when we think about like the emotions that 471 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 3: come up with that, like what are can you talk 472 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 3: us through or walk us through some of the emotions 473 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 3: that you were experiencing. 474 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: Prior or like during the process. Oh girl, So I 475 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: would say prior, I mean as someone that is now 476 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: like I kind of not. I mean I hate like 477 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,959 Speaker 2: a big deal or like a big person, but like 478 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: going from a place of obscurity where like I don't 479 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 2: I'm not really on social media, I don't really have 480 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 2: a presence. I don't do much where people see me, 481 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 2: to a place of like, oh, I'm going to be 482 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 2: on stages now. So I'm watching videos and I see 483 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: myself on video and I'm like, oh damn, my hair 484 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: is standing right there, and you just see yourself. You're 485 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 2: taking pictures with people for like speaking engagements and for events. 486 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 2: The thing that it stood out to me even more 487 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: and I was like, I've always wanted to do this 488 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 2: since I was a kid. I would really love to 489 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 2: get this done. So I can wear my hair up 490 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 2: in a bun. I have never been able to do 491 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: that without having to when use some kind of something 492 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 2: to cover up the edges. And so for me that 493 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 2: was a big thing. It's like my appearance in these 494 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: different settings that I'm in now, and as far as 495 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 2: throughout the process, it was it's a very like it 496 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: could be a very gruelling process. And so for me, 497 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 2: just to give you a little sort of overview, like 498 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 2: what they do, basically, they make an incision in the 499 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: back of your head. They I believe it's called graphs. 500 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 2: They use graphs from that incision. They basically sliced the 501 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: back of your head just to make it very yeah, blunt, 502 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 2: it is. It is what it is, right, and they 503 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: take the hair from the back and they implant it 504 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 2: in the front over your missing hair, so it's still 505 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: your hair, but it's just them taking hair from a 506 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: different space where you have an abundance of hair, putting 507 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 2: it in the space where you don't. And then from 508 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 2: there your hair just grows out naturally on its own. 509 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 2: So it's your hair that grows out, and so it's 510 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 2: really cool. But in order to do that, the procedure 511 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: that I went with they had to shave the front 512 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 2: of my head. So the whole front, the first I 513 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: would say, oh, I don't know, five inches or so 514 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 2: back from my forehead was all shaved. So that process 515 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 2: took about six months for to grow back, so I 516 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,479 Speaker 2: was stuck with head wraps. I still had a job. So, 517 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 2: I mean I enjoyed a lot of swelling. If you 518 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 2: look at the YouTube video, and I'm working on a 519 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: documentary about it too, because I'm like, I want to 520 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 2: show other women. I mean, my head got super big, 521 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 2: you know the alien emoji. That's how my shape. My 522 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 2: day three, my head was shaped like that. My face 523 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 2: was very swollen. I know another girl on YouTube she 524 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 2: had black eyes. So it can be very intense. But 525 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 2: after going through the process, being able to do what 526 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: I can do with my hair, like not being worried 527 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: about how the wind blows and which doc can it 528 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: was a life changer. 529 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 3: Wow. 530 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 2: Yes, wow, yeah. 531 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 3: The things that we endure or hair. 532 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: Hair, Yeah, it's a big deal for a lot of us. 533 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 3: So when we say I am not my hair, are 534 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: we Maybe we are? Maybe we are? 535 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 2: Damn. 536 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 3: Now that you're in a space where your hair is different, right, 537 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 3: how would you define or classify your hair now, because 538 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 3: my guess is you didn't. You weren't really feeling good 539 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 3: about your hair previously, prior to the hair transplant, right, 540 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 3: And like when you first started experiencing hairs, how would 541 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 3: you describe your hair now? 542 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 2: I would say, I mean it's great. I think it's 543 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 2: it's how it was pretty much how it was when 544 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: I was younger. And to be honest, I didn't really 545 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 2: have an issue with my hair. It was more so 546 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 2: just the edges. Like everything else. I was like, I 547 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 2: love my hair. I did my big chop, but everything like, 548 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: I love my hair, loved the texture, love my curls. 549 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 2: I've wanted natural, but it was just like the edges. 550 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 2: There's not much that I can do. I feel comfortable 551 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 2: without showing bald spots. You know, it's like that, that's 552 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 2: not cute. You know, you take a picture and you 553 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 2: got shiny bald spots shown. It's just like that, you know. 554 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 2: So it's like that was the thing that was really 555 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 2: big for me. But I think now I'm content. I 556 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 2: can do like, I can do so much more with it. 557 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 2: I can put my hair, seriously do I can put 558 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 2: my hair in a fucking bun like a high bun. 559 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 2: I could never do that before without literally like and 560 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: you I'll show you pictures if you see the YouTube video, 561 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 2: be like, oh shit, she wasn't lying, Like literally could 562 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: not do that style. And that makes me think about, 563 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,479 Speaker 2: you know, how we classified hair growing up. There were 564 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 2: messages I got about, oh, you got good hair, or 565 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 2: like I remember hearing that, oh you need to you know, 566 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 2: if you don't have that good hair quote unquote, you 567 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 2: need to be with someone that has good hair, so 568 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 2: your baby's cap good hair. You need to marry a 569 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 2: white man or have a baby with a white guy 570 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 2: so you have some good hair. And those were messages 571 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: that I know I heard growing up. But let's just 572 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: dive into the fuck is good hair? 573 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 3: Good hair is any hair that is growing out of 574 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 3: your scalp. 575 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: Hair on your motherfucking head. 576 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 3: Okay, that's good hair. 577 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 2: Forget all the type oh for C and B for 578 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 2: B and ZP. No, Like you have hair in your head, 579 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 2: your hair, whether it's kinky, whether it's curly. I mean, 580 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 2: our hair is beautiful by nature and it's versatile. Like 581 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 2: we live in this world today where it's like everything 582 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: gotta be this one way, and it's one very narrow 583 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 2: and sort of confined definition of beauty when it's like, no, 584 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 2: the beauty is in the versatility, okay, right, just. 585 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 3: That ability to Okay, So today, like I if you 586 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,959 Speaker 3: all have seen pictures on me, you know that right 587 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 3: now my hair is short. I love it personally. Don't 588 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 3: plan on changing that anytime soon. 589 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 2: So easy, so easy. 590 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 3: But over the years I've worn braids, I've had my 591 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 3: natural hair longer, so like I would get it straightened, 592 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 3: or I would wear a puff, and I could go 593 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 3: from braids for a few weeks to taking the braids 594 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 3: out and wear that puff for a while and then decide, 595 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 3: oh wait, wake up one morning. It's like, you know what, 596 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 3: I think, I want my hair to be straight today 597 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 3: and straighten it. And that's just I appreciate that versatility 598 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 3: of our hair. 599 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 2: I will say. One thing that's annoying though, for me, 600 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 2: is when you change your hair and people don't recognize you. 601 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 2: And typically it's not black people, right, they don't recognize you, 602 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 2: And that makes me think, like am I like do 603 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 2: you see me? Like do you really see me? Do 604 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 2: you see my face? Do you see my features? Like 605 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 2: do you see that I am a unique person? Oftentimes, 606 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 2: you know people you might compare people of a saying 607 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 2: race and say, oh, these people look alike, and folks 608 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,479 Speaker 2: who are like, oh no, they don't look like they 609 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 2: have these you know this color eyes and that person's 610 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 2: a bigger nose. It's like, do you really see people 611 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 2: or are you only seeing their hair? 612 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 3: Like? 613 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 2: What are you seeing when you see them? Because me personally, 614 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 2: like I I'm not dressing up in a costume. I'm 615 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 2: literally just changing my hair. How does that make me 616 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 2: look that different? So I have heard from people that 617 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 2: are like, you do look different when you change your hair, 618 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 2: Like even my family like they'll say that, But I 619 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: mean this happens to a lot of black women where 620 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: it's like you literally take your hair to braids and 621 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: you wear your hair in a low bun and people 622 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 2: are like, oh did you sign in? It's like, girl, 623 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: work here. You see me every day, you know, And 624 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 2: I think that's really annoying one. So it's like, see people. 625 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 2: Make sure that you are seeing people and not just 626 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: their race or not just their hair, but like see 627 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: the person. And it makes me think of this Refinery 628 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 2: twenty nine quote that says things like walking at commenting 629 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 2: on or cracking jokes about black women's latest style switch 630 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: up are equally inappropriate and can make black women feel 631 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: singled out. So literally, you can leave it at I 632 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 2: like your hair, that's it. I've had people at work 633 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 2: say things like, not at my current job, but just 634 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: at you know, previous jobs. How do you wash your hair? 635 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 2: I wash my hair the same way you wash your hair. 636 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: This is this isn't appropriate. I don't want to be 637 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 2: a spectacle. I want to show up and the style 638 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: that makes me feel like my best self and allows 639 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 2: me to express myself creatively and let it be that. 640 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: It doesn't need to be this whole conversation or presentation 641 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 2: or cannot touch. How do you do? How long does 642 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 2: it take? Do your own research? You can go to 643 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 2: Google on YouTube. I think I don't think people understand 644 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 2: non black people understand how kind of ostracizing that can 645 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 2: be when you single someone out and ask all these details. 646 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 2: And I always compare it to something that's like dealing 647 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 2: with your body, because it is an extension of us. 648 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 2: So if you notice that someone comes in and their 649 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 2: breasts are like so much bigger, they could go from 650 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: like an a cup to a double d are you 651 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 2: like how did you do that? Where did you go? 652 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: How did it feel? How long it take? That's my 653 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 2: only sort of because it's so inappropriate and it's so 654 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 2: bizarre to me. That's how I feel when people ask 655 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 2: these inappropriate questions about hair. It's like asking about something 656 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 2: on my physical person. It's really none of your business, right. 657 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: These and but those are like the frequent microaggressions that 658 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 3: we will experience as black people that our hair is 659 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 3: up for discussion when it's really enough and it's one 660 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 3: thing to really be curious and want to know, like, oh, 661 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,479 Speaker 3: how did you style your hair that way? Because if 662 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 3: you go from wearing your hair straight to wearing your curly, like, well, 663 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 3: how did how did that happen? 664 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 2: No, I'm with you, dog, because I feel like, yes, 665 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 2: it's okay to be curious, but like, just do your 666 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 2: own research. I feel like they shouldn't have to subject 667 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 2: the person that's there. And I've been that person where 668 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: it's like, I mean, I told you growing up in 669 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 2: schools and having a lot of white teacher and my 670 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 2: mom would change my hair and oh can we touch 671 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 2: your hair? How long did it taken? It's like the 672 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 2: big things I've become accustomed to it, but now I'm like, 673 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 2: it's really inappropriate, And so I think if they are curious, 674 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 2: like if you have a really good friend and they're 675 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 2: willing to explain it to you, okay, but like, don't 676 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: expect that to be the norm for people that you 677 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 2: do not have a relationship with, because it is really inappropriate. 678 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 2: Like when you think about it, if someone comes in 679 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 2: and let's just say, okay, this is a little different, 680 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: but it's like they have something different that's about like 681 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 2: with them, right, So whether it's a disability or maybe 682 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 2: it's like I don't know, there's something that makes them unique, 683 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 2: Like you wouldn't ask detailed questions about it to like 684 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 2: make them. Does that make sense? 685 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm with you on that. 686 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. 687 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 3: So when is it ever okay? 688 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: I think it's okay if the black woman initiates it. 689 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 2: I don't think that it should be I don't think 690 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 2: anyone should be comfortable to ask those type of questions, 691 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 2: especially if you don't have a rapport with the person. Now, 692 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 2: if someone is some people don't mind, Like, so you 693 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 2: might be listening to this and say, I don't care 694 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 2: if people ask the questions about my hair that's that's you. 695 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 2: But I don't think that it should be the sort 696 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: of blanket sort of assumption that all black women are 697 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 2: down the key key about their hair and tell you 698 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 2: all the details about how they wash it and how 699 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: they do that. I think I'm over that at this 700 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 2: point in my life, these twenty some years of like 701 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 2: putting up with that and having uncomfortable conversations and letting 702 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 2: people touch my hair when I was younger because I 703 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 2: was a kid and I didn't know any better. I'm 704 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 2: like over that, and so for me, it's just meet 705 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 2: my experience as a black woman. I'm like, no, I'm okay, 706 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 2: Like m I don't really want it. I'm not a spectacle. 707 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 2: Let's just have let's talk about something else, you know. 708 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 3: So then how do we set that boundary? So because 709 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 3: people will be curious and people will say people will 710 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 3: want to know, so something's different about your hair today, 711 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,959 Speaker 3: how do we respond to that? Or can I touch 712 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 3: your hair or they're reaching out to touch your hair. 713 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely happened, and it's a very awkward situation 714 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 2: and also very it can be very traumatizing. I had 715 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 2: a black girlfriend that happened to at work and she 716 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 2: like went into a panic. She were a hair in 717 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 2: Afro and she like text me, was like, girl, this 718 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 2: woman just touched my hair at work, and like what 719 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: the fuck? Like it's so inappropriate, right, So I think 720 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 2: when it does happen, one I can say, you know what, 721 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 2: I just I just recorded a podcast about this topic. 722 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,919 Speaker 2: Let me let me see you this podcast episode. That's 723 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 2: one way. 724 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 3: Right. 725 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: Also, just like you know that that's really inappropriate, that's 726 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 2: a micro question. Or if they're reaching for it, like 727 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 2: move their hands, like I'm getting better with if someone 728 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: has the audacity to reach for my body, I'm gonna 729 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 2: have the audacity to push your hand away because that 730 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 2: is totally inappropriate. Don't touch people, right, So that and 731 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 2: then also maybe even I typically keep it very simple, 732 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 2: so it's just like, oh thank you, yeah, I changed it. 733 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 2: How was your weekend? You know, just because it's it. 734 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 2: I think people should sometimes catch on disarm thement. Also, 735 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,720 Speaker 2: people should catch on the subtle sign you know, subtle 736 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 2: signals and signs everyone doesn't know. So I think unfortunately 737 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 2: again we are in a place where we have to 738 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 2: do some teaching, which is like what we always have 739 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 2: to do. We got to teach everybody about the black 740 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 2: experience and what's offensive because people just either I don't know, 741 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,240 Speaker 2: or don't care to learn, or don't care to do research. 742 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 2: So I think there are a lot of different ways 743 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 2: that we can let people know. 744 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 3: Okay, now we've talked a lot about some of the 745 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 3: trials and tribulations of our hair and our haircare journeys. 746 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 3: What are some recommendations that you have for our listeners 747 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 3: who are thinking about how do I get to that 748 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 3: space of really embracing my hair loving my hair. 749 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 2: That's a good one because so I've been torn on 750 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 2: this right growing up, like literally, and I have pictures 751 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 2: like since I was probably in elementary school where I 752 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,399 Speaker 2: would get extensions and get braids, and that's been it's 753 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 2: just been so fun for me. I love big just 754 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: big hair, thickness and all that, and so I wear 755 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 2: my hair in this natural state sometimes, but I love 756 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 2: to add additions and wear weaves, and so I've been 757 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 2: kind of torn with myself like, well, do you really 758 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 2: like your hair if you're wearing extensions and weaves or 759 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 2: is it just a you know, a sense of self expression. 760 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 2: And so I think just figuring out for yourself, like 761 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 2: what's important to me, what makes me feel comfortable, And 762 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 2: I don't think we should shame anyone who does. You know, 763 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 2: like we said earlier, if you want to get a 764 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 2: perm and that's what's best for your hair, do your 765 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 2: thing unapologetically. Who gives a fuck what people think? Right, 766 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 2: if you want to wear your weaves, if you want 767 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 2: to wear your purple hair. I think it's all. It 768 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: all boils down to you doing what makes you feel 769 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 2: good and loving yourself in the process, and like doing 770 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 2: it without care of what people think, because it's all 771 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 2: it's really all about you and what you're comfortable with 772 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 2: and what allows you to show up as your best self. 773 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 3: I'm with it, And so as we kind of wrap 774 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 3: things up, one of the things that I would encourage 775 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 3: us to do is to dive into the heir space 776 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 3: sanctuary and share resources because one of the things that 777 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 3: we know for sure is that no matter where you 778 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 3: are in America, we have a hard time always finding 779 00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 3: our products, always having access to the products that work 780 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 3: best for us. I particularly think about our college kids, 781 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 3: who I'm sorry, let me not call y'all kids, our 782 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 3: college student there, and when they're off somewhere in the 783 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 3: middle of nowhere and they're going to their local Walmart 784 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 3: or Target and they might not even have a Walmart 785 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 3: or Target nearby? How to find those the places near 786 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 3: close enough to campus that sell the products that they 787 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 3: need because they maybe they don't have access to Amazon. 788 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 2: Oh. I was like to say, girl, you better get 789 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 2: that Amazon Prime Student discount and get that thing next day. 790 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,479 Speaker 3: Okay, what if Amazon is in an option for right or? 791 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 3: And so I encourage us to log onto the her 792 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,959 Speaker 3: Space Sanctuary and share what are your favorite products to use, 793 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 3: what are your favorite styling techniques, and what are your 794 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 3: favorite places to go? And then also kind of maybe 795 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 3: sharing shout out your favorite stylist, because I know I 796 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 3: think about like, if you're moving to a new area 797 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 3: trying to find that white stylist, that can be the 798 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 3: hardest thing, the hardest thing, because again, our hair is 799 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 3: important to us and who we allow to touch our hair. 800 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,760 Speaker 2: Everybody can't be in that head now. 801 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 3: It sure, And so walk onto the heir Space Sanctuary 802 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 3: and share with us your resources so we all can 803 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,760 Speaker 3: be out here looking like our best selves. 804 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 2: That's right, And don't you forget that your hair is beautiful. 805 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 2: Good hair is hair on your head, and if you're 806 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 2: rocking a baldy, guess what that's good too. It's all 807 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 2: about what makes us feel beautiful. And I think that 808 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 2: we just have such a beautiful, versatile texture of hair, right. 809 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 2: We look good in so many different styles and we 810 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 2: can pull off so many different looks, and so just 811 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 2: remember that our hair is our sense of pride, and 812 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 2: you are beautiful. However, you just to wear your hair. 813 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:06,240 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us today in her Space. Please note 814 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 3: that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice, 815 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 3: self empowerment, and mental health, but it is by no 816 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 3: means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal 817 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 3: relationship with a trained mental health provider. If you or 818 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 3: someone you know is in need of mental health care, 819 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 3: please visit the Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today 820 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,800 Speaker 3: or contact your insurance provider. 821 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 2: If you like what you heard and want to keep 822 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 2: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and 823 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,760 Speaker 2: Twitter at her Space podcast or check out our website 824 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 2: at herspacepodcast dot com. And before we meet again, repeat 825 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 2: after me, I release what no longer serves me to 826 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 2: manifest what I desire. 827 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,959 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us we'll see you next week, lady