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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A young father of two

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Speaker 1: dies after his glucose levels go dangerously low. I means,

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Speaker 1: he Grace, this is crime Stories. Thanks for being with

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Speaker 1: us here at Phluccination and Serious Exam one eleven. So

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Speaker 1: he dies of dangerously low glucose levels? Or does he again?

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us? How did this unfold? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at crime Online.

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Speaker 2: Joseph Hartsfield is a diabetic whose glucose levels had been

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Speaker 2: under control for years, but in January Hartsfield was hospitalized.

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Speaker 2: Hartsfield had been at home when his blood sugar levels

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Speaker 2: dropped dramatically. His wife, if Sarah Hartsfield, says when it happened,

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Speaker 2: she went to the kitchen to get him juice and jam.

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Speaker 2: When she returned to the bedroom, Hartsfield had vomited on himself.

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Speaker 2: Sarah Hartsfield then called an ambulance. By the time Joseph

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Speaker 2: Hartsfield arrived at Houston Methodist Hospital in Baytown, he's unconscious.

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Speaker 2: Hospital staff begins treatment, pumping glucose into his body, but

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Speaker 2: Hartsfield did not respond as he should have. Nurses said,

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Speaker 2: hartsfield blood sugar level kept crashing Joseph Hartsfield is brain

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Speaker 2: dead and eleven days later he is pronounced dead, and just.

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Speaker 1: Like that, a husband and a father is gone. You know,

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Speaker 1: when we talk about diabetes, we kind of discount it

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Speaker 1: as being a real mortal danger, but it is. With me,

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Speaker 1: it's an all star panel. But first I want to

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Speaker 1: go to doctor Kendall Crown's, chief medical examiner in Terrey County,

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Speaker 1: Fort Worth, lecturer at the University of Texas Austin and

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Speaker 1: Texas Christian University Medical School. Doctor Crown's I will never

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Speaker 1: forget my daughter's birthday party one year. Fourteen girls sleeping

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Speaker 1: over and you can only imagine, Well, they finally get

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Speaker 1: quieted down around three o'clock, but not me. Why because

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Speaker 1: one of her little friends, who imbibed in a lot

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Speaker 1: of birthday cake, is diabetic and she was wearing an

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Speaker 1: alarm that goes off if her sugar level changes, and

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Speaker 1: if it went off, I was supposed to give her

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Speaker 1: a pill. I slept outside my daughter's bedroom on the

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Speaker 1: floor with a sleeping bag and a pillow because I

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Speaker 1: was so afraid I would not hear that alarm, and

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Speaker 1: in my mind, the little girl could just die in

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Speaker 1: her sleep. Well, I was so worried, but guess what,

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Speaker 1: the alarm did go off. I ran straight in there

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Speaker 1: and I shook her awake very gently, and I had

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Speaker 1: a bottle of water sitting right where she was asleep

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Speaker 1: on the bed with a lot of other little girls,

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Speaker 1: and she took her pill went back to sleep. I

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Speaker 1: was a nervous wreck the whole night, and the alarm

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Speaker 1: did go off. As a matter of fact, I went

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Speaker 1: off several times. I finally had to call the mother

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Speaker 1: in the early morning hours to figure out what to do.

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Speaker 1: It's not easily or is it easily controlled? I don't

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Speaker 1: know how did this happen to this guy, Joseph Hartsfield?

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Speaker 3: How did he.

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Speaker 4: Die from his underlying diabetes?

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Speaker 1: I mean, explain to me how you're right? Let me

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Speaker 1: if I put you on the stand, I would have

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Speaker 1: a big f for asking an incorrect question in court.

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Speaker 1: Let me rephrase my question. Why do your glucose levels drop?

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Speaker 1: And why does that kill you?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So with guy Beates, you have a defect in

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Speaker 4: your pancreas basically that your body doesn't produce enough insulin.

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Speaker 4: And because your body, insulin breaks down of food in

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Speaker 4: your body.

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Speaker 3: So it processes glucose.

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Speaker 4: Without insulin, you get a condition called hyperglycemia.

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Speaker 1: What is glucose.

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Speaker 4: Glucose is basically sugar. It's the sugar in your system

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Speaker 4: that is processed from the food and then used to

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Speaker 4: give energy to your body.

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Speaker 1: I know you've got an MPT, but they did not

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Speaker 1: teach diabetes in law school, so just I need to

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Speaker 1: hear about diabetes for dummies so I can understand this.

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Speaker 1: But I did just make a connection that the wife

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Speaker 1: trying to save him runs in the kitchen to get

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Speaker 1: juice and jam for the sugar content. And I've always

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Speaker 1: seen people with low blood sugar they need juice, they

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Speaker 1: need orange juice and quickly. Now now it's making sense

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Speaker 1: to me, go ahead, right.

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Speaker 4: So, when your body doesn't have enough insulin, you can't

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Speaker 4: process sugar correctly and you get a buildup of sugar

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Speaker 4: in your body. We called hyperglycemia. This buildup of sugar

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Speaker 4: in your body can actually cause your body to shut

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Speaker 4: down and for you to die.

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Speaker 1: Hyper gloscemia, that's hyperglycemia is correct versus hypo when it

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Speaker 1: would be too low.

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Speaker 4: Too low blood sugar is hypoglycemia. So in diabetes, it's

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Speaker 4: kind of a hyperglycemia, you have way too much sugar

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Speaker 4: in your system, your body can't process it, and it

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Speaker 4: causes you to die. But people that have too much insulin,

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Speaker 4: they get hypoglycemia and then they can also die because

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Speaker 4: it caused you to go into a coma. And it

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Speaker 4: affects your brain because your brain uses a lot of

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Speaker 4: the sugar in your system. So in either situation, too

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Speaker 4: much sugar, too low sugar, it both affect your brain

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Speaker 4: cause you can cause you to go into a coma

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Speaker 4: and pass away.

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Speaker 1: Now, this guy, it was diabetic, Joseph Hartsfield. His glucose

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Speaker 1: levels had been under control for years and then suddenly

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Speaker 1: they drop dangerously low. What could cause that?

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Speaker 4: Usually in well controlled diabetics where we see an incidence

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Speaker 4: of hypo hypogue, meaning too low blood sugar, it's a

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Speaker 4: mistake in their medication. Often when they're using their injectable insulin,

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Speaker 4: they may put in too much, or they may put

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Speaker 4: in too little, or they have forgotten that, oh, I

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Speaker 4: use my insulin a few hours ago. Whatever it is,

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Speaker 4: it's usually a mistake in how they've administered their insulin

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Speaker 4: resulting in their body then taking too much sugar out

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Speaker 4: because there's too much insulin available and then they get

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Speaker 4: a low blood sugar.

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Speaker 1: Ryce and Eberry's joining us reporter k p RC two.

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Speaker 1: That's NBC. Bryce, thanks a lot for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Let me understand correctly, mister Hartsville Joseph, did he have

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Speaker 1: hyper or hypo I thought I thought his glucose went

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Speaker 1: dangerously low? Is that correct?

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Speaker 5: That's right. His blood sugar did drop dangerously low, but

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Speaker 5: from what his family says, by all accounts, his sugar

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Speaker 5: normally ran high. He was the type of person who

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Speaker 5: he liked food, they said, and he normally had high sugar.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, Bryce, wait a minute. I like everything

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Speaker 1: that you just said. I just want to I want

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Speaker 1: to go through a point. Did you hear that, Doctor Crowns?

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Speaker 1: He liked food, and this guy is not overweight. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't look overweight to me, so he didn't eat too much.

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Speaker 1: He just enjoyed food. And it reminds me, Doctor Kendall Crowns,

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Speaker 1: the little girl I was telling you about. Her mother

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Speaker 1: was very careful about what she ate, but she didn't

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Speaker 1: want her daughter to feel like she was a prisoner

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Speaker 1: in any way a food, so she had arranged through

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Speaker 1: the day watching what the daughter ate for her to

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Speaker 1: have birthday cake at the birthday party. See what I mean,

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Speaker 1: So the little girl wouldn't feel deprived in life and

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Speaker 1: angry and resentful about having diabetes. And I'd like to

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Speaker 1: report that she's doing really great and in fact, she's

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Speaker 1: now a star athlete in basketball. So she did manage

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Speaker 1: to survive to spend the night at our house. That said,

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Speaker 1: diabetics can eat what they want, but they just have

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Speaker 1: to manage it. Like if you want to have pancakes

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Speaker 1: and syrup, you have to kind of plan for that

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Speaker 1: and eat appropriately so you can enjoy what you want

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Speaker 1: to eat. Does that make sense? I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a doctor. I'm trying to phrase it as best as

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Speaker 1: I can. Managing your diet correct.

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Speaker 4: A lot of diabetics can manage their diet, especially Type

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Speaker 4: two diabetics that they have more of an insulin resistance

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Speaker 4: and it's more of a long term process where their

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Speaker 4: pancreas is beginning to fail because of an unhealthy lifestyle.

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Speaker 3: So to say.

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Speaker 4: But if you manage your diet and don't have too

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Speaker 4: much sugar or carbohydrates, which are what usually gets turned

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Speaker 4: into sugar in your body, you can function normally. You

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Speaker 4: just have to be very careful of your diet, and

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Speaker 4: that is one of the ways of treating diabetics is

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Speaker 4: to have them monitor their diet where they can have

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Speaker 4: those little moments of splurges, so to say, where they

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Speaker 4: can have birthday cake or a milkshake or something like that,

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Speaker 4: but then they have to be very aware of what

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Speaker 4: they eat for the rest of the day so they

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Speaker 4: don't get too much glucose or sugar in their system.

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Speaker 1: Well, usend dotor Crown's mind. Dad was borderline diabetic the

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Speaker 1: last ten years of his life. We obsessively watched how

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Speaker 1: many grams of carbs or sugar everything that he ate,

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Speaker 1: and he really did a good job managing his diet.

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Speaker 1: You know, did you hear what Bryce Newberry said from NBC.

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Speaker 1: He said that the victim in this case was typically

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Speaker 1: hyper too much sugar, but that night he went hypo

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Speaker 1: his glucose dropped really low. What about that, doctor crowns So.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if he liked his food and had a

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Speaker 4: tendency to eat a little bit too much sugar, that

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Speaker 4: would explain why he had probably difficulty regulating it with

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Speaker 4: his medication, and that's why he would have the higher

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Speaker 4: blood sugar or hyper glycemia, but the fact he is

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Speaker 4: hypoglycemia either means he did not get enough sugar in

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Speaker 4: his system that day when he took his insulin and

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Speaker 4: it caused him to crash or drop into hypoglycemia, or

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Speaker 4: there was a mistake with his insulin that was a

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Speaker 4: minister to him that caused his blood sugar to drop

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Speaker 4: dramatically and have made him hyperblacing or have a critically

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Speaker 4: low blood sugar.

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace, Ryce Meanberry joining us kp

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Speaker 1: RC two. So explain to me the events of that night.

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Speaker 1: I understand what doctor Kendall Crowns is telling me, how

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Speaker 1: he could have been hyper glossamic and then suddenly went

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Speaker 1: hypo that one night. Tell me how it unfolded that night,

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Speaker 1: Bryce Newberry, So, what time of the night was it?

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Speaker 1: Was the wife asleep beside him? Were they in their

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Speaker 1: home alone? Were other people there? I know he has

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Speaker 1: two children from a previous relationship. She has fourtune children

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Speaker 1: from a prior marriage. They don't the children don't live

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Speaker 1: with the couple. How did it unfall? Were they alone?

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Speaker 1: Were they at home? What time of the night was it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they were alone in their home in Beach City, Texas,

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Speaker 5: and the night before, the wife claims that she made

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Speaker 5: dinner for him, one of his favorite meals in fact,

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Speaker 5: according to his family, broccoli, cheese, and rice. And then

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Speaker 5: in the middle of the night is when the blood

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Speaker 5: sugar started dropping pretty low. And it wasn't until about

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Speaker 5: one o'clock in the afternoon the next day that the

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Speaker 5: wife says that she checked on him and he was unresponsive.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, they were at home together. How

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Speaker 1: much time passed? I mean, how long have you been

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Speaker 1: unresponsive before she checked on him? When does she last

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Speaker 1: see him alive?

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Speaker 5: And well, that's something that's not clear in the court document.

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Speaker 5: It was around eight thirty in the evening. She says

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Speaker 5: that she made dinner and had him eat it. And

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Speaker 5: then the next time that's listed in these documents is

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Speaker 5: one o'clock in the afternoon the following.

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Speaker 1: Day and she was asleep on the side of correct.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that's what she says, because she herself was recovering

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Speaker 5: from a surgery and says that she was on narcotics

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Speaker 5: at the time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, take a instar our friends at kp RC.

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Speaker 6: The grand jury met on the top floor of the

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Speaker 6: Chambers County Courthouse for several hours this morning, but we

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Speaker 6: were not allowed up there because the whole point of

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Speaker 6: grand jury proceedings is that they are secret. But our

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Speaker 6: camera captured those witnesses being escorted by a DA's office

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Speaker 6: investigator in and out of the courthouse. We saw the

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Speaker 6: oldest daughter of Sarah Hartsfield, as well as the Houston

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Speaker 6: Methodist emergency room doctor who tended to her husband, forty

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Speaker 6: six year old Joseph Hartsfield back in January. He died

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Speaker 6: in a Baytown hospital due to what the medical examiner

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Speaker 6: ruled complications of toxic effects of insulin.

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Speaker 1: While it's it's entirely true that grandeury proceedings are secret,

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Speaker 1: it's very clear what's going on here. You've got the

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Speaker 1: wife's oldest daughter going into a secret grand jury hearing,

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Speaker 1: followed by the emergency room doctor that attended her husband,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Hartsfield when he died. Clearly they're looking at her

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Speaker 1: for his death. To again, Doctor Kendall Crown's joining us

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Speaker 1: out of Tarrn County Fort Worth, what does this mean

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Speaker 1: toxic effects of insulin? Because it seems to me we're

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Speaker 1: hearing he died of extremely low glucose levels, So what

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Speaker 1: does it mean if he has toxic effects of insulin?

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Speaker 4: So what happens when he did way too much insulin

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Speaker 4: here in your system? The insulin kind of takes all

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Speaker 4: that sugar out of your body and you become a

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Speaker 4: crash and get a hypoclasmic episode or a very low

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Speaker 4: blood sugar. So it's a too high level of insulin

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Speaker 4: resulting in the removal of all the blood sugar from

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Speaker 4: his body. Where again, like I said earlier, your brain

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Speaker 4: kind of functions on the sugars as well, and that

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Speaker 4: the toxic effect of the low blood sugar causes you

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Speaker 4: to go into a coma and eventually die.

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Speaker 1: The way you're saying it makes it sound like glucose

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Speaker 1: and insulin are the same thing. I thought. You got

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Speaker 1: injected with insulin.

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Speaker 3: You do.

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Speaker 4: You get injected with insulin, and then the insulin gets

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Speaker 4: in your body and it causes your body to use

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Speaker 4: up all the sugar. And if you get too much insulin,

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Speaker 4: it starts taking the reserves that your body has out

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Speaker 4: of preserve.

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Speaker 1: Basically, let me just be clear, doctor Kinnel Crowns. Does

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Speaker 1: your body create insulin?

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Speaker 4: Yes, your body does create insulin, so.

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Speaker 1: How do I know if his body created too much

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Speaker 1: or if he was injected with too much.

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Speaker 3: So he is a.

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Speaker 4: Diabetic, so he is on insulin, So that is his

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Speaker 4: body is inherently not producing insulin properly. So any insulin

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Speaker 4: he has in his system is probably being injected into

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Speaker 4: a system. And you can also do drug testing to

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Speaker 4: see the insulin levels in the body. So if you

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Speaker 4: see a really high abnormal insulin level, you know he's

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Speaker 4: gotten too much insulin in his system, which then caused

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Speaker 4: his blood sugar to drop to basically a low enough

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Speaker 4: point that it put him in a coma and eventually

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Speaker 4: he died.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel yourself going into a coma? Do you

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Speaker 1: know what's happening to you when you've got you ag insulin?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, you can feel very lethargic and confused, and

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Speaker 4: before you pass out, it's a time period of this

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Speaker 4: kind of tiredness, confusion, and it can even affect your

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Speaker 4: heart rate and things of that nature. So you can

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Speaker 4: feel yourself slipping into a diabetic coma initially, but it

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Speaker 4: may or may not. You may be so confused you

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Speaker 4: don't realize what's going on.

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Speaker 1: I understand. So the confusion makes you or can make

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Speaker 1: you unaware of what's happening to you. You're that confused. Well,

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Speaker 1: as police and detectives began to investigate the truth cause

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Speaker 1: of death the toxicity of way too much insulin, the

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Speaker 1: case develops in a very unusual manner, a very bizarre manner.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eleven.

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Speaker 6: Chambers County, DA Cheryl Lee Henry says investigators have already

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Speaker 6: started hearing from people out of state with information about Hartsfield.

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Speaker 7: She had a lot of people cry for a long time,

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Speaker 7: is what I'm finding out.

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Speaker 6: One of those people her first ex husband, I felt

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Speaker 6: threatened quite often.

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Speaker 1: He says.

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Speaker 6: Their marriage ended horribly and his family has been watching

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Speaker 6: their backs for the last twenty seven years as she

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Speaker 6: kept interjecting herself into their lives.

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Speaker 7: Sarah's a narcissist, and she's good at making herself look

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Speaker 7: like whatever she wants or the other person wants to see.

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Speaker 8: I knew she would eventually get caught for.

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Speaker 3: Who she is.

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Speaker 1: Well, her former family may despise and hate her. They

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Speaker 1: go so far as to say they've been looking over

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Speaker 1: their max for the last twenty plus years. Wondering what

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Speaker 1: she may do next. But how does that fit in

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Speaker 1: to the death of Hartsfield. Take a listen to Marik

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Speaker 1: Glover of Fox nine.

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Speaker 9: Joe eventually died an investigators say the story his wife

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Speaker 9: told them didn't add up.

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Speaker 8: If the hospital had to call this, we didn't. Our

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Speaker 8: officers didn't get involved and make good decisions, we wouldn't

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Speaker 8: be here and potentially could have somebody getting away with murder.

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Speaker 9: According to a determination letter from the Douglas County Attorney, Hartsfield,

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Speaker 9: whose last name was Donahue, five years ago, shot and

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Speaker 9: killed her fiancee, David Bragg during an argument that turned

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Speaker 9: physical in Garfield, Minnesota. The Douglas County Attorney found that

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Speaker 9: Hartsfield shot Brad in self defense because he fired a

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Speaker 9: gun at her and declined to file charges against her

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Speaker 9: in Bragg's death.

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Speaker 1: To Bryce Newberry joining us from kp RC two, that's

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Speaker 1: NBC in Houston, Stop everything. I've got one dead husband

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Speaker 1: from insulin overdose. And according to our doctor who is

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Speaker 1: a renowned medical examiner, Hartsfield didn't create enough insulin, but

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Speaker 1: suddenly he has an overdose of insulin and dies after

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Speaker 1: lingering for days in a come went hospital. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing about another dead lover fiance David Bragg shot dead

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Speaker 1: by the same woman in twenty eighteen. And I've got

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Speaker 1: husband number one, Titus Cornchild, who has four children with

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Speaker 1: this woman. Is he the one that says he looks

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Speaker 1: over back for the last twenty years and his children

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Speaker 1: do too, because they don't know what she's going to

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Speaker 1: reinsert herself in their lives? Do I understand she's lost

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Speaker 1: custody off her children, Yes, that's right.

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Speaker 5: In twenty twenty one, her two youngest children were put

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Speaker 5: in custody of their father, Christopher Donahue. That was because

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Speaker 5: he filed for a protective order for him and for

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Speaker 5: the children and his new wife because they found out

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Speaker 5: from Sarah Hartsfield's fourth ex husband that she had been

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Speaker 5: pressuring him to drive across the state line to Arizona,

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Speaker 5: where the Donahue family lives, to kill the new wife

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Speaker 5: of Christopher Donahue.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, I'm sorry that I've lost. I've

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Speaker 1: run out of paper on my flow chart. This woman

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Speaker 1: who just happened to be asleep on the sofa downstairs

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Speaker 1: when her husband has a toxic level of insulin injected

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Speaker 1: into himself. Sarah Hartsville husband number one, Titus Cornchild, she

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Speaker 1: has four children with him. Husband number two, Michael Traxler.

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Speaker 1: Don't know what happened to him yet. I just want

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Speaker 1: to know because he's still alive. Husband number three you

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Speaker 1: just mentioned, Christopher Donahue, got a protective order against her

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Speaker 1: because she was putting somebody up to come kill him

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Speaker 1: and his new wife fiance, David Bragg is the one

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Speaker 1: she shot dead. Then happy number four David George. I'm

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Speaker 1: curious to see he did or alive. And now husband

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Speaker 1: number five, Joseph Hartsville, who dies of insulin toxicity. Do

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Speaker 1: I have the husband's right?

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Speaker 5: Well, actually the children were not with Titus. The children

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Speaker 5: were with Christopher Donahue. That was number three.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the four children come from Donahue. Got it?

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Speaker 1: Which husband was being pressured to go go back and

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Speaker 1: kill Donahue.

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Speaker 5: So the man that Sarah married after shooting and killing

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Speaker 5: David Bragg in Minnesota, that's the man who was then

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Speaker 5: allegedly being pressured to drive to Arizona to kill the

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Speaker 5: new wives of Christopher Donahue. And the reason, according to

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Speaker 5: that application for a protective order was because she didn't

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Speaker 5: want or she wanted Christopher Donahue to be too distracted

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Speaker 5: dealing with his wife's death to be fighting for their

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Speaker 5: children anymore.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I was starting to fit together in a

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Speaker 1: kind of bizarre, crazy way. Sarah Ford is joining US

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Speaker 1: legal director of South Carolina Victims Assistance Network, former prosecutor

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Speaker 1: host so Stepping Toward Justice podcast. Sarah, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. Explain why a grand jury is secret

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Speaker 1: and how basically if you can watch the witnesses going

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Speaker 1: into the grand procedings, you can figure out what's happening.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she sees her oldest daughter go into the

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Speaker 1: grand jury procedings and then she sees the er doctor

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Speaker 1: of her dead husband go in. Uh two it is

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Speaker 1: to go still equals four, I think, Sarah Ford.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 10: I mean, it's really important for our grand jury system

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Speaker 10: to be secret because we want everyone who's going to

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Speaker 10: come in there and testify, to make sure that they're

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Speaker 10: testifying to the truth, that they don't see her reprisal

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Speaker 10: from it from defendants who may know you know, obviously

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Speaker 10: they're watching, they can see what's happening. So it's really

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Speaker 10: important that that is a secret process and of course.

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Speaker 11: It's not going to remain secret.

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Speaker 10: You know, if they indict the individual, then you know

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Speaker 10: they'll be tried and by a jury of their peers.

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Speaker 10: But it's incredibly dangerous to have, you know, defendants watching

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Speaker 10: what you know who's coming in to testify against them,

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Speaker 10: because they certainly have an interest in stopping people from

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Speaker 10: testifying before the grand jury, which would mean that their

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Speaker 10: case would never be able to come to trial.

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Speaker 1: Absolute correct. I agree with you, guys. This is not

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Speaker 1: the first time we have been seen death by insulin.

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Speaker 1: Take a list at our cut thirty one, our friends

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Speaker 1: at WAFF forty eight.

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Speaker 12: The state is still waiting to receive the final autopsy report,

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Speaker 12: but the medical examiner told officials it's consistent with being

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Speaker 12: poisoned by insolent. A check at the hospital where Capella's

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Speaker 12: wife worked as a charge nurse.

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Speaker 1: Showed that insolent was missing.

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Speaker 12: The judge found probable cause for the case to move

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Speaker 12: forward in court with the victims family was hoping for.

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Speaker 1: He's shining down on us right now. He's He's with

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Speaker 1: us every step of the way. You know, he was

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Speaker 1: well known in the Huntsville community. Here's my son, and

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Speaker 1: I miss him. He didn't deserve this, but he deserves justice.

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Speaker 12: The couple's daughter, meanwhile, is in the care of loving relatives.

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Speaker 1: Jim Cappella was a local private investigator who knew everybody's secrets,

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Speaker 1: all about divorce proceedings, lawsuits, double dealing of all sorts.

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Speaker 1: So at first there's a big question as to who

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Speaker 1: would have motive to kill him. Well, then focus turned

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Speaker 1: on his wife, a charge nurse, after it was discovered

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Speaker 1: it was all about the insulin. So Jason Gensen joining

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Speaker 1: us a very well known private investigator, cold case expert

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Speaker 1: and co founder of Cold Case Coalition. You can find

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Speaker 1: him a Jensen Private Investigations dot com. Jason, how can

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Speaker 1: we prove in this case that the defendant, Sarah Hartsville

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Speaker 1: injected her husband with insulin as opposed to him mistakenly

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Speaker 1: injecting himself or his body somehow producing too much insulin?

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Speaker 1: How can you go about proving this was an intentional killing.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a very good question, and I think that's

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Speaker 7: really the hill that prosecutors have to overcome because, just

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Speaker 7: like doctor Crown was explaining, oftentimes it's a mistake and

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Speaker 7: you have to overcome the nature of a mistake to

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Speaker 7: prove the intent here. What I believe that law enforcements

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Speaker 7: relying on is her own inconsistent statements to show that

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Speaker 7: there's no logic behind it. Otherwise, Yeah, we're still wondering

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Speaker 7: if we can prove that wasn't a mistake.

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Speaker 1: What sort of inconsistent statements do we know of? Has

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Speaker 1: that been released to Bryce Newbery?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I mean she has shared different stories with investigators over time.

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Speaker 5: She's also been communicating with us via text messages from

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Speaker 5: her jail cell to explain her side of the story

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Speaker 5: and says that there was no wrongdoing.

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Speaker 1: So her story is there's no wrong doing. What is

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Speaker 1: the inconsistent portion of her statement? According to police?

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Speaker 5: His obituary says that he died of an aeschemic stroke,

437
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 5: Which that's the first thing that doesn't match up with

438
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 5: what the medical Examiner's office actually ruled in this case

439
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 5: in terms of the story that she shared immediately when

440
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 5: things were not adding up to the medical staff, that's

441
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 5: when the Sheriff's office was called in and said that

442
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 5: the story really just didn't add up and match up.

443
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 5: Because you know this dexcom that hearts Joseph Hartsfield war

444
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 5: is what monitored his sugar level, and according to his family,

445
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 5: both of them had apps on their phone that would

446
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 5: send the alerts, and she allegedly ignored those alerts when

447
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 5: his sugar was dropping dangerously low. Now she denies that.

448
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 5: She says she didn't ignore those alert.

449
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: But yet she has the app on her phone to

450
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: alert her. And I can tell you this much. I

451
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: heard the alarm go off very clearly in my daughter's sleepover,

452
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, Would it be a matter of proving

453
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: the case by showing how much insulin was injected that

454
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: it was such a huge amount it cannot possibly have

455
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: been a mistake.

456
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 4: Yes, Actually, the testing the Medical Examiner's office can do

457
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 4: can show that the amount of insulin injected it was

458
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 4: extremely high. It wulb not kangruous or similar to just

459
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 4: a standard. Oh I gave myself one extra injection, it

460
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 4: would look have more of a look of I gave

461
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 4: myself ten extra injections, which wouldn't make sense. It would

462
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 4: either be a suicide or a homicide at that one.

463
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: There are actually eight insulin pins beside his bed. Eight

464
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Doctor Crown's eight insulin pins?

465
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 4: So potentially he was injected with eight round of insulin

466
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 4: all at one time, which would be more than sufficient

467
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 4: to kill him.

468
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: And then they would see.

469
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 4: That at the toxicologic testing that he had, you know.

470
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 3: Eight times the normal amount of insuluin in his system.

471
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace too. Doctor Sherry Schwartz joining

472
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: us for now forensics psychologists specializing in capital mitigation and

473
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: victim advocacy at panthermitigation dot com. She's also the author

474
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: of Criminal Behavior and author of Where Law and Psychology Intersect.

475
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: Doctor Schwartz, thank you for being with us. You know,

476
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: there's a big difference in my mind, getting into an

477
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: argument at a bar, let's just say, and pulling a

478
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: gun and pulling the trigger and immediately regretting the a

479
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: while the law doesn't care if you immediately regret the deed,

480
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: the person still dead. I believe there is a difference

481
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: in that and a cold hearted, calculated plan to commit

482
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: murder where you know your victim is going to suffer,

483
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: suffer greatly before their dead, and you do it anyway.

484
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: Doctor Schwartz, Yes.

485
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 11: There's a remarkable difference. There's a remarkable difference in the approach.

486
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 11: What it seems on miss Hartsfield's part. If we're to

487
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 11: believe everything that everyone said, and there doesn't seem to

488
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 11: be a reason not to right, that she engages inmpredatory

489
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 11: behavior with the intent to inflict harm violent homicide on people.

490
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 11: So this is if we look at the FBI definition

491
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 11: of a serial killer, and I don't know that that's

492
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 11: what we're dealing with, but it seems to have shades

493
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 11: of that feeling. What we're looking at is someone who

494
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 11: would fit into the hedonistic category, such that they kill

495
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 11: for the pleasure of killing, They seek to kill for

496
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 11: the thrill of killing, and she does it in a

497
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 11: very planned way, and she doesn't consistent it seems if

498
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 11: the evidence is correct here with how most female serial

499
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 11: killers do it, it's either for revenge, and then the

500
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 11: mode of homicide tends to be something like poisoning.

501
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: You know, one of these pins should last about a month.

502
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: One of the diabetic insulin pins holds about three mls

503
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,479
Speaker 1: of insulin and it should last about a month. He

504
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: had eight of them beside his bed. Eight pins. That's

505
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: eight months worth of insulin. If we are reading the

506
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: directions in the packaging correctly, this wouldn't be the first

507
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: time that a very obscure method of murder has been used.

508
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our twenty one Our friends at

509
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: GMA Death by eye drop.

510
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 13: The investigators say they still have no clear motive as

511
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 13: to why fifty two year old Lana Clayton allegedly used

512
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 13: eye drops to kill her husband of four years.

513
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 9: Well, she did admit during interviews with our detectives that

514
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 9: she committed the crimes.

515
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 13: Stephen Clayton was found dead in the four year of

516
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 13: this eight hundred thousand dollars South Carolina mansion he shared

517
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 13: with his wife in July. Police say they never suspected

518
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 13: foul play was involved until toxicology results from his autopsy

519
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 13: revealed high levels of tetrahydrosleen, the chemical found in eye

520
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 13: drops and nasal sprays, in his bloodstream.

521
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: It mocks, for instance, a heart attack because just as

522
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: eye drops, light feizin restrict the blood flow to the

523
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: tiny vessels in your eye, so your eyes are no

524
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: longer red, it can also constrict the blood vessels going

525
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: to You're a art and that one has been used again.

526
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends Inside edition. This is

527
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: Jim Murray and cut twenty three.

528
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 14: He saved dozens of lives as a paramedic. Now prosecutors

529
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 14: say he murdered his wife by poisoning her with visine.

530
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 14: Joshua Hunsucker and his wife, Stacy were high school sweethearts,

531
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 14: raising two adorable daughters aged five and six. Stacey died

532
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 14: in September last year from what appeared to be a

533
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 14: heart attack, but in a stunning development, her thirty five

534
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 14: year old husband has just been charged with murder.

535
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 13: He is the one who poisoned mess Hunsucker with vizine

536
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 13: or a similar product and calls.

537
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: Her dead murder by insulin, death by eydrop? Well, what

538
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: about death by cereal? Breakfast cereal? Take a listen to

539
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: our thirty wd IV. Stephanie Arnold remembers how she reacted

540
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: when she got the news her friend was dead.

541
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 15: And Christie's she's a mom, breast being a baby. That

542
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 15: doesn't happen.

543
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: Did you ever know her to do drugs?

544
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 13: No?

545
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: Did Christy seem happy in her life with her children?

546
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: You pause and you say with her children?

547
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 16: Her relationship was rocky, The fights were bad.

548
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 12: Christy and Jason Harris were married for eleven years, knew

549
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 12: each other for sixteen, and had two children.

550
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 16: Together when we found out about overdose.

551
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 15: That's kind of exactly where our brain went, because she

552
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 15: wouldn't do that herself.

553
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 16: Nobody believed that she would do that.

554
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: It was only by comparing the breast milk that she

555
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: had pumped and frozen to her toxicology reports, then it

556
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: became very clear her cereal had been poisoned with a

557
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: high dosage of drugs. Back to our case in chief,

558
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: the very latest take a list to our cut eight

559
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: investigation has taken ou to other states.

560
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 16: Let's just put it that way.

561
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 5: I'm hoping within the next year and a half to

562
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 5: get Miss Hartsfield tried.

563
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 6: Minnesota authorities are also getting close to the end of

564
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 6: a reopened investigation of Sarah Hartsfield, who in twenty eighteen

565
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 6: fatally shot her fiance at the time, David Bragg, but

566
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 6: she was never charged because prosecutors ruled it self defense.

567
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 6: Sarah Hartsfield has maintained her innocence, and in messages to

568
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 6: me from her jail cell, said, the real story is

569
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 6: quote when a citizen with no criminal history can be

570
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 6: thrown in jail while they think I did something but

571
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 6: aren't sure, and if I did do something.

572
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: They don't know how she wrote.

573
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 6: If she's guilty of anything, it's picking horrible husbands.

574
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 1: Wow, blame the victim. It's their fault. They're the horrible ones,

575
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: all five of them. Plus you've got the fiance that

576
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: got shot and the other one that was afraid. Surprise,

577
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: he lived through it to tell the tale. You were

578
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: hearing the voice of Bryce Neeberry joining us right now

579
00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: from kp RC two, NBC Houston. What did that mean

580
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: that they are now looking in other states and other

581
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: jurisdictions for what.

582
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 5: There's a lot of things that have happened allegedly in

583
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 5: Sarah Hartsfield's past. Of course, there's the shooting in Minnesota.

584
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 5: There's the murder plot.

585
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: Well, you mean the shooting and the dead husband, that one,

586
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: the dead the deaf fiance that one, yes.

587
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 5: That one, and you know the family in that case.

588
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 7: We've interviewed them.

589
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 5: We've traveled to several states covering this story and interviewed

590
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 5: people from Sarah Hartsfield's past. And when we spoke with

591
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 5: the family members of David Bragg, they said that she

592
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 5: tried to explain herself for that shooting to them, and

593
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,479
Speaker 5: when she shared her version of the events, they say, well,

594
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 5: it really didn't add up, and they even called her

595
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 5: story far fetched. So they're understandably very grateful that this

596
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 5: case is getting a renewed book.

597
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: Now Takelos to America nine.

598
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 6: Sarah Heartsfield is in the Chambers County jail tonight for

599
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 6: the murder of her husband in Beach City last month,

600
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 6: but investigators says she's been married at least five times,

601
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 6: and tonight we've learned just five years ago she shot

602
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 6: and killed a man who never made it to the altar.

603
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: Forty three year old.

604
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 6: David Bragg was engaged to Sarah Hartsfield in twenty eighteen

605
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 6: when she shot and killed him in their Douglas County,

606
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 6: Minnesota home. The county's top prosecutor declined to file criminal charges,

607
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 6: saying she fired in self defense, but tonight the Douglas

608
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 6: County Attorney's office is reopening the investigation in light of

609
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 6: new information that came into the sheriff's office. Bragg's family

610
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 6: is relieved, telling us in a statement, his death was

611
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 6: very random and the circumstances that surrounded his death seemed

612
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 6: far fetched and almost made up Rise Kneeberry.

613
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: We know so many other men in her life. Husband's

614
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: fiance's boyfriends. Is there a chance Sarah even more dead bodies,

615
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: possibly not just the man in her life, but a

616
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: neighbor alone rival. How do we know?

617
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 5: Well, throughout this coverage of the story, we've been looking

618
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 5: into different people around Sarah Hartsfield who have died, and

619
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 5: in fact, in nineteen ninety her little brother died of

620
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 5: an accidental death in Otterville, Missouri. That case is also

621
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 5: getting a renewed look, although Sarah Hartsfield was not present

622
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 5: at the time that her little brother died. There is

623
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 5: also the two thousand and five deaths of her biological father,

624
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 5: which was reviewed earlier this year by police in Bell County, Texas.

625
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 5: They did not file criminal charges in that but based

626
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 5: on the events that have come to life throughout this investigation,

627
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 5: there are a lot of other investigations that are getting

628
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 5: a more focused.

629
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 4: Look at them now.

630
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: Who knows where this is all going to end, but

631
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: I know one thing. She will be tried for murder

632
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: in the death of Joseph Hartsfeld, and his insulin toxicity

633
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 1: will play a major factor in that prosecution. We wait

634
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: as justice unfolds. Goodbye Friend,