WEBVTT - The Investigation Into the Mysterious Identity of Bitcoin’s Creator

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek

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<v Speaker 1>with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>As Carol just mentioned, the President did sign an executive

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<v Speaker 2>action aimed at closing the Education Department. You're going to

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<v Speaker 2>get much more coverage on that on Balance of Power

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<v Speaker 2>starting at five pm Wall Street Time with Joe Matthew

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<v Speaker 2>a little later in the day. In the meantime, there's

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps no greater mystery in the world of cryptocurrency than

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<v Speaker 2>the identity of one Satoshi Nakamoto. Is it one? Is

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<v Speaker 2>it a man? Is it a woman? Is it even

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<v Speaker 2>a person? That's because Satoshi Nakamoto is widely seen as

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<v Speaker 2>the creator of bitcoin. It's thought that his or her

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<v Speaker 2>there bitcoin wallet contains up to one point one million coins,

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<v Speaker 2>which yes, could be worth somewhere in the neighborhood of

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred billion dollars. Benjamin Wallace may have found some answers.

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<v Speaker 2>He's been looking for Satoshi all the way back to

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eleven, and he's the author of a new book,

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<v Speaker 2>The Mysterious Mister Nakamoto, a fifteen year quest to unmask

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<v Speaker 2>the secret genius behind crypto. Benjamin also the author of

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<v Speaker 2>the New York Times bestseller of The Billionaire's Vinegar, and

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<v Speaker 2>he's written for New York Vanity, fair Wired, and more.

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<v Speaker 2>He joins us from New Jersey. So did you find

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<v Speaker 2>Satoshi Nakamoto? Benjamin?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, thanks for having me. Did I find Satoshi? I

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<v Speaker 3>found many Satoshi's. I don't land on a mathematical proof

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<v Speaker 3>of a single name that you can point to, but

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<v Speaker 3>I explore a lot of candidates very thoroughly, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think you finished the book able to draw your own conclusions.

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<v Speaker 3>And I look at the group possibility. I look at

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<v Speaker 3>the possibility that it came out of the NSA. I

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<v Speaker 3>look at the possibility that it could be, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>an old sort of cryptographer from the nineties, or someone

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<v Speaker 3>much newer on the scene who no one's ever heard of.

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<v Speaker 2>Which one do you think it is? Of all of those?

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<v Speaker 3>This is going to be unsatisfying, But I really there's

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<v Speaker 3>a few maybe favored theories. And okay, one of them

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<v Speaker 3>is a beloved no longer with us, cipher punk as

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<v Speaker 3>they called them, named how Finni, who was the very

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<v Speaker 3>first person to transact with Satoshi Nakamoto on the Bitcoin network.

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<v Speaker 3>Another is an obscure cipher punk who is sort of

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<v Speaker 3>a recluse, who lives in Australia, who has not been

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<v Speaker 3>focused on previously, and who, unlike how Finni is, is

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<v Speaker 3>sort of on the other end of the spectrum in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of likability. Let's say, so he would be kind

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<v Speaker 3>of a shocking Satoshi because he's not the benevolent god

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<v Speaker 3>that bitcoiners like to imagine Satoshi must be.

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<v Speaker 2>That would be Jans A. Donald.

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<v Speaker 3>That would be James A. Donald exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that Satoshi is an individual or do

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<v Speaker 2>you think Satoshi's a group.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that if Satoshi is a group, then that

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<v Speaker 3>would actually point towards potentially an intelligence organization being the

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<v Speaker 3>source of bitcoin, because outside of intelligence organizations, where obviously

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<v Speaker 3>groups or groups hold secrets all the time that do

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<v Speaker 3>not leak. Outside of those agencies, it's almost impossible for

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<v Speaker 3>group secrets to remain secret. And you know, seventeen years

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<v Speaker 3>after Satoshi Nakamoto first came on the scene and announced bitcoin,

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<v Speaker 3>no one has come forward to say, oh, yeah, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>my ex husband invented it, or my ex business partner

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<v Speaker 3>invented it, or my estranged sibling invented it, and there's

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<v Speaker 3>just I find it very unlikely that a group could

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<v Speaker 3>hold the secret.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, so this may be blasphemous, but our blasphemy. Why

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<v Speaker 4>does it matter that we figure out Benjamin his identity.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, no, what you're saying is the opposite of blasphemy.

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<v Speaker 3>My saying it matters is the blasphemy. Like bitcoiners will

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<v Speaker 3>tell you that the world should not know who Satocianakamoto is.

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<v Speaker 3>I have two answers to that. One is that I

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<v Speaker 3>think we've all seen recently how the richest person in

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<v Speaker 3>the world can affect a lot of people's lives other

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<v Speaker 3>than themselves. And Satoshi Nakamoto right now with one point

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<v Speaker 3>one million bitcoins would be in the twenty richest people

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<v Speaker 3>in the world, and Bitcoin would only have to go up,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, by a multiple of two or three to

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<v Speaker 3>suddenly make Satoshian Akimoti the richest person in the world.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's one reason. The other reason is until we

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<v Speaker 3>know definitively who Satoshi Nakamoto is and what their agenda

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<v Speaker 3>and intentions are, we cannot assume that they are, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>ones that everyone would like. Let's say it turned out

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<v Speaker 3>that Satoci Nakamoto is a plan by the Chinese Communist

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<v Speaker 3>Party to destabilize the dollar. Should we just leave them

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<v Speaker 3>alone and defer to their wish for anonymity?

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<v Speaker 2>Can you remind everybody why the origin of bitcoin is

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<v Speaker 2>associated with Satoshi?

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<v Speaker 3>Sure? So, the way bitcoin was first announced was on

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<v Speaker 3>this kind of obscure cryptography list serve or message board

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<v Speaker 3>by someone using the name Satoshi Nakamoto. And on that

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<v Speaker 3>message board, no one had ever heard this name that

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<v Speaker 3>they just assumed it was someone they'd never heard of,

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<v Speaker 3>or it was an Internet alias. And then eventually that

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<v Speaker 3>same person or alias launched the bitcoin software onto the Internet.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's just kind of interesting, Tim, and I

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<v Speaker 4>have so many interviews on the world of crypto and

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<v Speaker 4>people so convinced that this is the way forward, and

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<v Speaker 4>yet there's just so many questions. And I think part

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<v Speaker 4>of the mystique right of digital currencies is that there

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<v Speaker 4>is this mystique that we don't necessarily who started it,

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<v Speaker 4>and you know, it's kind of outside the traditional financial infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 4>How do you see, you know, since you started writing

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<v Speaker 4>in whir your first feature on bitcoin twenty eleven, many

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<v Speaker 4>years ago, now at this point, how do you think

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<v Speaker 4>about the digital world the digital currency world today.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, first, I'd also say the anonymity or pseudonymity and

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<v Speaker 3>unknowness of Satoshi I think has been an incredible marketing

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<v Speaker 3>coup for Bitcoin because it's very on brand. The whole

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<v Speaker 3>idea that bitcoin has no leader fits perfectly with the

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<v Speaker 3>idea that we don't know who the leader is the

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<v Speaker 3>crypto world in general and the digital currency world in

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<v Speaker 3>general today I think of as quite far removed from

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<v Speaker 3>where it started. I mean, it began as a sort

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<v Speaker 3>of libertarian friendly project just with Bitcoin. Now there's something

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<v Speaker 3>like over according to coinbase, over eleven thousand different cryptocurrencies. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 3>crypto broadly has a fairly checkered reputation because of all

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<v Speaker 3>the scamminess over the years with some of the especially

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<v Speaker 3>the the non bitcoin cryptocurrencies. But I continue to think

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<v Speaker 3>it's an extremely fascinating and promising technology that may just

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<v Speaker 3>not have found its killer use case yet. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>AI started in the nineteen fifties. For decades people assumed,

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<v Speaker 3>since nothing has happened with it yet, nothing is going

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<v Speaker 3>to happen with it that is consequential, And obviously we

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<v Speaker 3>now know AI is extremely consequential, and I think it's

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<v Speaker 3>entirely possible something similar could happen with bitcoin and crypto.

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<v Speaker 4>All right, we unfortunately have to leave it there, but Benjamin,

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<v Speaker 4>we hope you'll come back real soon so that we

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<v Speaker 4>can continue this conversation because it's really fascinating when your

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<v Speaker 4>take on it. In particular, Benjamin Wallace, thank you. His

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<v Speaker 4>new book is The Mysterious Mister Nakamoto, A fifteen year

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<v Speaker 4>quest to unmask the secret genius behind Crypto, joining us

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<v Speaker 4>there in New Jersey,