1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Welcome back 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Matt, my name is 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: they call me Ben. We are joined as always with 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you 8 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that meets this stuff 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. We've been doing a 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: lot of shows recently with a check in at the 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: beginning to make sure we're all in a cool or 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: at least tolerable place given the heat outside. So Matt, 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: how's it. How's it going? It's going really well. We're 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: coming right off of Father's Day. I got to spend 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: some time with my son yesterday. In fact, it was wonderful. 16 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: We went to a waterfall that's nearby. Uh. It's just 17 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: it was awesome. Uh. And and the happy Father's Day 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: to both of you. Belated thank you suh. No, how 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: about you. It's good. I would and visited my mom 20 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: and she made me a Father's Day dinner Lego lamb 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: which is it is? And a little bit of what 22 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: do we have on the side. I was some stuffed mushrooms, 23 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: also a favorite, and then I got to take my 24 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: kid to Actually I went and got a manicure and 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: a pedicure, and then I got up sold into getting 26 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: my eyebrows waxed. It's kind of a bummer because the 27 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: pedicure feels so good and then the eyebrow waxing really hurts, 28 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: so it sort of negated the good feels of the pedicure. 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: You know, honest, I have this thing with my feet 30 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: and if anyone ever tried to do anything to my 31 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: feet like that, like dude, I would uh kick them 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: in the face. I would attack. I would have to. 33 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: There's apart where they take this cheese greater thing and 34 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: just like rub it in the middles of your feet, 35 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: and I have to bite my lip really hard to 36 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: keep from like losing it. God. So we also in 37 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: an update behind the curtain here, we'd like to welcome 38 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: one of our newest producers to the universe of this show. 39 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: Maya Cole. Thanks for coming listening in and gotta gotta 40 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: woo there that you can't hear outside of the studio. 41 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: Let's also check in with mission control. How you doing man, 42 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: thumbs up, thumbs down. Okay, I thought a sideways. It 43 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: was for a second, it was middling too good. We're 44 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: gonna call that. How about Mr Benolen? Thanks for asking? Man, 45 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: so we also not kidding. Uh yeah, things are happening. 46 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: You know. I've been traveling some more and probably have 47 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: some more travel in the future. And I've been out 48 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: of this this particular realm uh, this particular astral plane 49 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: really just gonna give me the demon laugh and move on. 50 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: By the way, did you did you listen to the 51 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: recent voicemail episode? Did I? YEA? Okay, all right, you guys, 52 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: he hasn't heard the Oh that's okay, don't worry about it. 53 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: Check it's fine, it's fine. I should listen to it. 54 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: I should we go into a little bit of your lore? 55 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: Oh boy, any anything I need to be aware of? 56 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: You already know? Are the all knowing all? Say what 57 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: you want? Oh man, that's that's two. That is two kinds. 58 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: I listened to one of the voicemail episodes, and Matt 59 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: know that you did way back? Is it over a 60 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: year now? Ago? Now? Yeah? And that was really that 61 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: was really good and people really seem to enjoy it. Um, 62 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm sorry, I apologize. I'll listen to it. 63 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: That you were still included. That's very good, Thank you 64 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: so much. And if you want to be included in 65 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: today's show, you do not have to wait until the 66 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: show is over. You can simply pause and call us 67 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: directly with your thoughts, your opinions. You are hot takes, 68 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: as they say in the late night shows. Just keep 69 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: it around three minutes or be ready to call back 70 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: and say and another thing. Yeah, I mean a hot 71 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: take should technically be a verbal tweet kind of thing. 72 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: So three minutes should be plenty for a hot take. Yeah, 73 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: then you're getting into rant territory Dennis Miller style. We 74 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: like a good rant as well. Sometimes you know, you 75 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: get stuck just applying Marty garrab beads to a basket 76 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: and you're just like, you know what, I need to 77 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: call like three or four more times. Just trust me, 78 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: it happens. It happens. So what's that number for anyone 79 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: who wants to call. It's one eight three three s 80 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: T d W y t K. So we chanted like 81 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: that on purpose. Yes, yes, we're ritualizing, So go ahead 82 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: and drop us A line. Today, we are returning to 83 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: the world of unidentified flying objects. Specifically, we're exploring the 84 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: story of flying saucers, not UFOs in general, mind you, 85 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: actual flying saucers. For decades, these were some of the 86 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: most widely reported mysterious aerial phenomena in the Western world. 87 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: Even today, when you hear someone say the word alien 88 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: or extraterrestrial fo most people will immediately conjure up an 89 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: image of a flying saucer. Right. Well, you know you 90 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: got the whole night and got the little uh, the 91 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: the nuts to cockpit. Yeah, you got the cockpit at 92 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: the top, maybe glass dome, and then of course it's 93 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: always shooting a tractor beam down over a cow and 94 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: an abandoned field at night somewhere potentially. Yes, you always 95 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: have the Mars Attacks version in my head, because that's 96 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: the classic trophy version. Like Tim Burton was obsessed with 97 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: those kind of old comic representations of that kind of imagery, 98 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: the Martians themselves with the big dome, you know, head 99 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: things and all of them. Yeah, and Mars Attacks. I'm 100 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: gonna say I still enjoy it. I do too, mentally. 101 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: It's a great documentary. Right, So, but when are these 102 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: things flying saucers. They've been described as a widely misidentified, 103 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: mundane phenomenon. They've been described as little more than uh 104 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: collective hysteria. Right Uh. Our question today is are they real? 105 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: And to answer that question we have to start from 106 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: the beginning. So here are the facts. Why do we 107 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: call them flying saucers. It's not like anyone nowadays, at 108 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: least in the US or Canada, uses the phrase saucer 109 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,239 Speaker 1: to describe the actual little plate upon which one would 110 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: place a cup or a mug. Would you call it? 111 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,239 Speaker 1: What would I? What would I call that a little plate? 112 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: I say it all the way. I really clip the tease. 113 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: I say little plate or little cup. You have very 114 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: good addiction. Then I would be interested to know if 115 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: any of our British listeners or anyone out in the 116 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: UK or around that area still uses the phrase saucer. 117 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: They definitely do. Think about a saucer of milk for 118 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: a cat. It's certainly in the in the vernacular. That's 119 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: those are the only two phrases I hear it in 120 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: the flying saucer or saucer of milk is the other one, 121 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: cup and saucer. They just call it. It's like, it's 122 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: like it's a set. They come together. It's the cup 123 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: and then the saucer. Yeah, but are people walking around 124 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: talking about it though, and could use it? These saucer Well, 125 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: why you don't know? You don't pass the saucer because 126 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: you're passing the cup and it's on the saucer. But 127 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: if someone's like, if someone's like, no, that's the thing. 128 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: No one addresses it as a singular entity, don't. You 129 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: don't hear the word saucer floating around without being attached 130 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: to a cup, an alien, or a cat. It's basically 131 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: a glorified drip pam. It's it's made to catch the 132 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: drippings from your tea. So presumably, if you're not a 133 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: total slab, you don't even need a saucer. There you go, 134 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: I give what doesn't it depend on the temper? Okay, 135 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: this is maybe a different show, but but we call 136 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: these things flying saucers because of oddly enough, skeet shooting. Yeah, 137 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: back in nine or so ever since then, flying saucer 138 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: was used to describe one of those clay pigeons that 139 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: they shoot off and you know, fire at and then 140 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: you high five each other when you hit one and 141 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: that resembles a saucer, a classic UFO shape because the 142 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: little vice that they would either someone would throw the 143 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: manual layer. I think as technology advanced, they would have 144 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: little machines that would like, you know, hold them like 145 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: with a little arm and kind of lobbed them. They'd 146 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: they'd go thoop and then smash, right. But it's because 147 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: they're of a shape that allows them to be thrown 148 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: with a nice directional velocity, right, Yeah, like a frisbee. 149 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: There you go. So for years and years and years 150 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: and years, this was a term that was kind of 151 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: slaying in the world of clay pigeon shooting. But this 152 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: phrase did not describe UFOs until nineteen thirty and it 153 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: didn't become popularized until nineteen forty seven. In June seven, 154 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: a guy named Kenneth Arnold had this highly publicized UFO 155 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: sighting and it resulted in the popularization of the term 156 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: flying saucer in US newspapers and then later uh the 157 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: Anglo sphere, and then later the world overall. So, so 158 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: what happened what made Kenneth Arnold go viral? Or at 159 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: least what did he see? So what Arnold said was 160 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: he claimed to have encountered flashes of light and nine 161 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: different objects flying in some sort of formation, occasionally flipping 162 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: the way you might think of the drone behavior hovering. 163 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: You know, there's those drones you can get that will 164 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: flip upside down like that or do like a three 165 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: sixty loop or whatever like that without moving very far. 166 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: So he followed them and found that they were traveling 167 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: at incredibly high speed um and consisted of various shapes. 168 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: Each of each were not They were not identical, they 169 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: were not uniform. Eventually he lost track of them, and 170 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: uh he landed sharing his experience, and words spread and 171 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: his account um to use the kind of internet parlance, 172 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: went viral. Yeah, he was as popular for a time 173 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: as a cat meme is today. So in uh, in 174 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: these interviews with the press, I like the point you're 175 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: raising about the shapes being varied. He described them a 176 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: couple of different ways and a couple of different interviews. 177 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: One he called a pie plate when he said, uh, 178 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: oval in the front, convex in the rear. And what 179 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: this means is that some editor has lost to history now. 180 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: And part of the reason this story gains so much 181 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: public traction is because Arnold was a pilot, you know 182 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: what I mean, he was a credible source at the time, right, 183 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: And still a pilot is more credible than someone on 184 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: the ground in a lot of ways because they have 185 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: simply more experience to imagine, Like, yeah, it's it's pretty 186 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: hard to competently pilot a plane if you're either meant 187 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: mentally unstable or under the influence of some kind of 188 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol. Frowned upon in the piloting community. Yes, yes, 189 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: the biggest thing is just having an understanding of how 190 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: aircraft function, right, That that's the biggest thing when when 191 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: you have a pilot, say, these things were flipping around 192 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: and doing this weird thing, and they were oval shaped 193 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: and oblong. It was really strange. But then he goes 194 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: on in further interviews to like describe them even more differently, 195 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: right right, Uh, oval in the front and convex in 196 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: the rear. So in UFO parlance, probably it really depends 197 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: on whether you're an oval or a convex guy, you know. Uh. 198 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: He described something as a pipe plate, and then later 199 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: his story changes again. He describes one of the objects 200 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: as a crescent or flying wing, some as a big 201 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: flat disc, some as simply saucer like, And that's where 202 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: we hit on the etymology here, because while Arnold is 203 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: associated with this term, it was probably some editor lost 204 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: to history who's responsible for calling it a flying saucer. 205 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 1: And for a little while there was kind of a 206 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: Pepsi coke thing going on with flying disc versus flying saucer, 207 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: but flying saucer clearly one out. And we still use 208 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: the phrase today sort of yeah, a little bit, but 209 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: the phrase has kind of gone away or at least 210 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: been supplanted quite a bit by this. Uh, we're gonna 211 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: call it a government created term because that's what it is. 212 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: Unidentified flying object or UFO or UFO is I like 213 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: to say, and no one else does, Yes, and get 214 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: these these aren't aliens, necessarily, not extraterrestrials. They're just something 215 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: in the sky that people cannot identify. Look up in 216 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: the sky. It's a bird, it's a plague, it's Superman, 217 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: it's a weather blue. I don't know. I guess it's unidentified. Well, 218 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna continue to use the term 219 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: UFO here in this episode, but it should be noted, 220 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: as we noted not that long ago in an episode 221 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: the military has now changed that as they like to 222 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: change all their phrasing over time to unidentified aerial vehicle. Yes, yes, yes, 223 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: U A V. I mean it's also sort of like that. 224 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: They might call something like that if something comes up 225 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: on radar they called a bogey or what her. But 226 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: that's sort of if it's something they don't know the 227 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: origin of they can't have eyes on it directly, then 228 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: that could be considered one of these as well, unidentified 229 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: aerial vehicle. That's the problem with the ACROYM though. There 230 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: must be some of the initialism. There must be something missing, 231 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: because unmanned aerial vehicle is also U A B. Yeah, 232 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: there you go, Or maybe I'm incorrect. I know it's 233 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: something similar to that, but yeah, I mean Uncle Sam. 234 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: Governments in general big fans of abbreviations and initialisms. Today, 235 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: flying saucers, not just the phrase, the thing has become 236 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: this genre of overall UFO sightings, and when you look 237 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: at the world of fiction, flying saucers still by far 238 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: they're running the game. You know. The problem is they're 239 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: they're not represented in a serious way. Mars Attacks spoiler 240 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: alert is not in fact a documentary. You can see 241 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: them in things like sci fi series like The X Files. Right, 242 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: they'll use the flying saucer appearance. You'll you'll see it 243 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: depicted in a ton of nineteen fifties nineteen sixties fiction. 244 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: You know, we're talking outer Limits, Twilight Zone and so on. 245 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: But what if there's more to the story. Is there 246 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: any truth to tales of actual flying saucers? Not clouds 247 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: that look like saucers, mind you, Not weird tricks of 248 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: the light, no atmospheric high jinks or strange I hoo 249 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: spheric interference, a real genuine flying saucer. The answer is yes, 250 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: there were real flying saucers, and we built them. Don't 251 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: toy with my emotions, Ben, It's true. And we're going 252 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: to talk about the ones that at least um we 253 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: tried to contract out after a word from our sponsor. 254 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Enter Projects seventeen uh and 255 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: related to this, the Avro Canada VZ nine Avro car. Yes, 256 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: let's talk about And before we get into that, I 257 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: have to make a quick edit to what I said earlier. 258 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: This is just everyone listening who said, Matt, you a 259 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: v s are a thing. Ben is absolutely right, and 260 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: you are wrong. You are correct it is. Uh, it's 261 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: not even called unidentified aerial something. It's called unexplained aerial phenomena. 262 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: So so that's you a p yes, you up up. Yeah, 263 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: So apologies for everyone who was really frustrated before the break. 264 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: Let's continue on. You think they were shaking their fists 265 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: at their I hope someone coodcast device. I hope someone 266 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: called and then they got done with their voicemail and 267 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: they listened through to the rest of the podcast. It 268 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: just goes to show you, like, there's so many things 269 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: in my brain that I feel like I know things about, 270 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: but I only have bits and pieces human condition, my friends, 271 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: But you know what I do know about? What do 272 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: you know about? Because it's written down in this awesome 273 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: outline that you created that it's the story of this 274 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: guy named John Carver Meadows Frost and everybody you know 275 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: his friends they call him Jack. He worked in the 276 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: aerospace industry for quite a while and in June of 277 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: ninety seven he started working for this Canadian company called 278 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: Avro Canada a v R. Oh, yeah, that's right. And uh, 279 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: you know this dude's all about, you know, dreaming big. 280 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: He's a big picture guy, that's right, And Uh, he 281 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: would Um, he worked in or he like did this 282 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: thing that AVRO called Blue Skies research. So like these 283 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: are when we say big picture things ideas that are 284 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: so close to the edge of what science can do, 285 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: they're they're overlapping or just beyond what is possible. Um, 286 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: and that's our boy, Jack, he's thinking on the edge, 287 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: Jackie boy. That's right. Well Jack Frost himself, Yes, at 288 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: Avro Canada, he had already worked on something called the 289 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: Avro cf An hundred. This is uh. This is a 290 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: craft that is innovative, but not wild wild style Blue Skies. 291 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: Blue Sky's research is stuff like uh. In the world 292 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: of aviation, an example of something that would be considered 293 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: experimental would be the Howard Hughes designed uh Spruce Goose, 294 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: the largest plane in history that we know of, spruce geese. Yes, 295 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: and if you look at pictures of that thing, it's 296 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: it's enormous, It's it's impractical. I think it's I've seen 297 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: it before. I feel like, is it on display in 298 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: like San Francisco. It's on the West coast right, Oh, 299 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: you know what, it's a it's actually the Evergreen Aviation 300 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: Museum in um mcmonville Oregon. Interesting, nice, well done mcmonville. 301 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: So you can look at pictures of this thing is 302 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: built largely out of wood. He called it the H 303 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: four Hercules. It has the name spruce Goose, which came 304 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: about as an insult from a skeptical press. The world 305 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: of brainstorming is high risk, high return. But this is 306 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: the world that Jack wants to live in. So after 307 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: he's been working on the AVRO CF one hundred, he 308 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: creates a research team called the Special Projects Group or SPG, 309 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: and he at first surrounded himself with other people who 310 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: thought like he did, out of the box, you know 311 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: what I mean, Mavericks, improvisers. So this group SPG, Special 312 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: Projects Group, was situated in their main administration building, but 313 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: then they relocated it to an older structure across from 314 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: the company headquarters and what was called the Schaefer Building, 315 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: and their security went through the roof. They had guards everywhere, 316 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: locked doors, special unique pass cards. They started doing serious stuff, 317 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. The days of hanging out 318 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: in the conference room with a chalkboard were long gone. 319 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: Nobody can see this chalkboard right right now. It's all 320 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: secret chalk, disappearing chalk. Is that I thing salt chalk 321 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: is disappearing racer. So the SPG operated out of this 322 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: experimental hangar and they shared space with other secretive AVRO 323 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: project teams. Jack was personally fascinated, along with a lot 324 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: of other people, by something called vertical takeoff and landing 325 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: vehicles also known as v t O L. That's a 326 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: pretty cool can you say V tall or did we 327 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: need to say I like tall craft? Right? There might 328 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: be somebody named vital listening now and if you are, 329 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: you know, hello, so um for a VTOL aircraft, really 330 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: think about a helicopter, um, especially when you're thinking about 331 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: taking off and landing something that vertically goes up and 332 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: goes out and then you can come back and go 333 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: down and you can get out of the thing. Um 334 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: and you know. And for these aircraft, the specific ones 335 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: that Jack is interested in, it's having that ability to 336 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: take off vertically but then fly around like an airplane 337 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: would or jet, then come right back and then go 338 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: back down like the X Men jet. Yeah, right with 339 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: that has the rotating turbines, right, which is a really 340 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: cool feature, kind of like an osprey. I believe the 341 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: craft are called Yeah. So in the nineteen fifties, the 342 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: U s. Air Force was worried about the vulnerability of 343 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: their bases because of a couple of limiting factors of 344 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: conventional aircraft. Right, yeah, and then this is something we 345 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: should talk about, Ben and I were talking about off 346 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: offline here in seven is when the US Air Force 347 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: splits off or is officially split off from the army 348 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: from just as a as a separate military unit. And 349 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: you know, this is at this point post World War Two. 350 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: But they've got these bases that are all over the planet. 351 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: At this point, they're they're pretty isolated, and the Air 352 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: Force around this time in the nineteen fifties, they're really 353 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: worried that these these bases are just gonna get destroyed 354 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: because if you if you imagine looking at one of 355 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: these bases overhead, like Google mapsng it or Google earthing it. 356 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: Uh back in let's say nine, Um, you're just gonna 357 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: see several huge runways and then a bunch of extremely 358 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: high value targets just clustered around these runways in a 359 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: single basket exactly. And that's aircraft, of course, just sitting 360 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: around the runways. So they wanted to find a way 361 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: to reduce either the length and thickness of their runways, 362 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: so it's not such a like Um, if you're flying 363 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: overhead or nearby in an enemy vehicle, you can't just go, 364 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: oh hey, look that's a military base, and we can 365 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,479 Speaker 1: wreak havoc on their offensive and defensive capabilities if we 366 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: attack that thing. Um And they also wanted to so 367 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: they wanted to either reduce them, make them smaller, or 368 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: just get rid of them completely. So you could have 369 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: basically a United States Air Force base in the middle 370 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: of nowhere and it would be a little more hidden 371 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: at least a bit. The other thing they wanted to 372 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: do is find a way to deploy aircraft faster for 373 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: both offensive and defensive capabilities. So if your base is 374 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,239 Speaker 1: being attacked, you can send you can send aircraft up 375 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: that will knock down all the other planes that are 376 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 1: coming into attack you, or you can send them off 377 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: quicker to go attack nearby areas. So we're do seeing 378 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: scramble time exactly. That makes sense, And this the v 379 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: t O L thing, just what Jack is interested in. 380 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: That was one of the proposed solutions. The thing is, 381 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: this sort of experimentation is spoiler alert cartoonishly expensive. It's 382 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: not uncommon, but it is expensive and because often these 383 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: are some of the first people trying to do this 384 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: kind of thing ever, right, and in any kind of 385 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: any kind of hardware prototyping, often they are prone to failure. 386 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: And I don't mean like, oh good, lesson learned. I 387 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: mean this is a disaster. These people are dead. Why 388 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: did we lose millions of dollars on this? Remember that 389 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: episode we did a ridiculous history Bend that was about 390 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: failed military technology, and one of them was like a 391 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: hoverboard kind of platform face that was kind of part 392 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: of the technology for one of these vital jets, right, 393 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: it was the part that lifts the thing up off 394 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: the ground. But that was literally all these were. And 395 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: you would control it sort of like a segue by 396 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: like leaning into it or back or sideways. So you 397 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: looked really silly, and it just was. It was very 398 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: unwieldy and heavy, and they weren't very good at like anything, 399 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: the flying platform flying platforms, and like you know, it 400 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: had this sci fi space vibe to or like everyone's 401 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: like zipping around on these little discs, you know, like 402 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: flying saucers, but they just weren't very functional in a 403 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: war situation. Yeah, they were more. They were more a 404 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: rich person's toy, I think ultimately, but also like a segue, 405 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: like when we think of when we think of these experiments, 406 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: let's also remember things like bat bombs. Let's remember things 407 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: like cyborg cats that was a real thing, rocket bullets, 408 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: rocket bullets, all all sorts of stuff, and SPI dolphins. 409 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: And that's not even getting into assassination attempts and equipment. 410 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: So they know they're in again, a high risk, high 411 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: rewards situation. There's something else interesting that happens in society 412 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: at this time. So flying saucers are experiencing what pr 413 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: people here in would call a moment. There is a 414 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: proliferation of sightings of flying saucers in the West as 415 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: a whole, but across the world, and there is serious concern, 416 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: not just it's not just newspaper publishers trying to sell 417 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: the next week's edition. It's not just fringe theorist anymore. 418 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: There are members of the U. S. Military who are 419 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: seriously anxious, concerned, terrified would be a fair word. That 420 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: Soviet forces may have beaten them to the punch, creating 421 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: their own top secret vt O L. In other words, 422 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: creating their own flying saucers. So these folks at the 423 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: higher echelons of the military and politics are essentially saying, 424 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: what if all these flying saucer sightings are real? And 425 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: what if they're you know, they're not spaceman or something, 426 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: they're not aliens there, you know, Well they would probably 427 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: say commies or reds or something like that. Yeah. Well, 428 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: so in the in late nineteen fifty three, a group 429 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: of defense experts took a little visit to Avro, Canada 430 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: to view this new thing that was called the CF 431 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: one fighter jet. Because you know, you don't just need 432 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: crazy experimental things that might happen, you also need real 433 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: fighter jets when you're the military. And that's what Yeah, 434 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: the U. S. Air Forces there just to see that jet. 435 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: It's important to this story. Yeah, and we'll tell you 436 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: what happened on their visit after a word from our 437 00:25:50,680 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back. So midway through the tour, or 438 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: pal Jack Frost bust In and and hijacks them. Essentially, 439 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: he takes these visitors to the high security Special Projects 440 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: area and he does a little show and tell. He 441 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: gives them a look at a mock up of something 442 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: he calls Project Why too this is a completely circular 443 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: disc shaped aircraft. Yes, right in the USA have visitors 444 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: were pretty impressed by what they saw. They took over 445 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: funding for the Special Projects Group and gave seven hundred 446 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand American dollars in nineteen fifty five, which, uh, 447 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: if we inflation calculated that by today's standards, it's a 448 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: little over seven million dollars. Pretty crazy, right, And the 449 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: next year avro Um decided to commit two and a 450 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: half million ninety five dollars to build a prototype. So, 451 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: as you said before, ben very expensive to do this 452 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: kind of out of the box kind of thinking and research. Yeah, 453 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: and they said the reward could be amazing, Yes, yes, 454 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: could be, could be or could be relegated to the 455 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: scrap heap of history. It's it's marginally bedder than gambling, 456 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So this study encompassed a 457 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: wide variety of possible designs, but they all revolved around 458 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: this disc shape, this flying saucer shape, leading to something 459 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: called Project seventeen nine four. The goal was to build 460 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: a supersonic large disc fighter aircraft, so a fighter jet 461 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,479 Speaker 1: that's also a circle basically. Yeah, and again, think about this, 462 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: a flying disc a flying saucer then engages other aircraft 463 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: and ground objects. Like how crazy is that? Again, this 464 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: is a real thing at this point. So they eventually 465 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: get to the level where they're doing what's called wind 466 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: tunnel testing with scale models, so they're studying how these 467 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: things move through the environment and what little tweaks or 468 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: big changes they can make to make it less of 469 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: a disaster. A wind tunnel simulating the conditions of high 470 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: speed flight without actually having to reach those speeds absolutely 471 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: nail on the head. Yeah. They eventually decide that the 472 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: reasonable estimate for this concept would result in a vehicle 473 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: that can go mock three point five at one thousand 474 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: foot altitudes or thirty thousand meters for the rest of 475 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: the world. This led to something called the Avro Car, 476 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: which is a real thing that you can see today 477 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: if you want to travel to a museum and check 478 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: it out. Highly recommended. Jack Frost built this kills me. 479 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: This guy's name is Jack Frost. How many he must 480 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: have been? So cool? He built this as a two 481 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: seer personal car kind of concept, so w it's much 482 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: smaller than what they were aiming to build, and it showed, 483 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, and meant to It was a proof of concept. 484 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: It was meant to show, hey, these things can work. 485 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: We can actually put people in them. They can take off, 486 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: they can fly around, they can land, everybody will be alive, 487 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: will high five each other. Awesome, go us. And at 488 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: the time this was just a step towards their ultimate goal, 489 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: the supersonic flying saucer. How do we know about this? 490 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: How do we know this is real and not a story? 491 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: No one really knew. No one officially knew about this 492 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: until two thousand and twelve, when declassified documents showed the 493 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: rumors were true. Which happens all the time. How many 494 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: people can you imagine who are engineers on their deathbed 495 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: telling their kids, like, no, it's true. We we kind 496 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: of built flying saucers. Is there a statute of limitations 497 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: that allows things to be things to be declassified as 498 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: it's sort of like a copyright expiring or does someone 499 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: just up high kind of have to say, you know what, 500 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a big deal anymore. People want 501 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: to know. It'd probably be fun to let this out there. 502 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: What do you think the protocol? Is that fun? But 503 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: you know, fine for the people you know, can give 504 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: them a little something to go on. I would just 505 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: start I would start by saying, while I don't know 506 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: the exact parameters of that time frame, I do know 507 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: that after a certain amount of time it comes up 508 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: as it can be reviewed essentially to be declassified or 509 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: it can be reclassified. At that point. It is kind 510 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: of like a that's not a bad comparison, because there 511 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: were things that came out recently regarding or there were 512 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: things up for review excuse me, regarding the Kennedy assassination, Uh, 513 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: some of which were released and some of which were reclassified. 514 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: And the problem is there. The criteria for that is 515 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: is it fun? That's number one. That's the number one. 516 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: Are we all having a good time? Number two is 517 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: does this still pose a continued risk to national security? 518 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: Or two people? Sorry, the exposure of methods and technologies 519 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: used to gain information or advantage get an edge. Yeah, 520 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: and that's that's such a woefully vague thing that that 521 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: happens all the time. What isn't national security? You could 522 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,959 Speaker 1: you could stretch that to anything totally. But because of 523 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: this two thousand and twelve declassified a documentation, we got 524 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: to take a look for the first time at this 525 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: memo that comes from nineteen fifty six. That really shows 526 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: what the engineers there at Avro were attempting to build 527 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: the like the thing they wanted the end goal to be. 528 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: And it gets back to a saucer like vehicle that 529 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: was capable of reaching quote between Mack three and Mark 530 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: four a ceiling of over one hundred thousand feet means, 531 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: meaning it can climb all the way up to over 532 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: or around over a hundred thousand feet and a maximum 533 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: range with allowances this is still the quote of about 534 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: one thousand nautical miles. Incredible browsers. And that's you know, 535 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: that's nineteen fifties six when the memo is written, so 536 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: that is the same year that Avro itself gives that 537 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: two point five million dollars in nineteen five six bucks. 538 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: As you said, nol uh to the project. As far 539 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: as we can tell, this supersonic flying saucer, it canst 540 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: weird that there's a real thing, would propel itself by 541 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: rotating an outer disc at a very very high speed 542 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: and then maneuvering would be accomplished by using small shutters 543 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: on the edge of the disc. It would be powered 544 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: by jet turbines, So no secret technology there, and according 545 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: to the cutaway diagrams, you can see maybe four four 546 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: so digitized pictures of this. According to those cutaway diagrams, 547 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: the entire thing would be able to take off and 548 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: land vertically, so it would move in a way that 549 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: closely resembled the movements reported of flying saucers. Can we 550 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: can we just take a minute and look at this 551 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: cutaway together, because it is dang fascinated, really cool. And 552 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: there are some things that Ben and I were talking 553 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: about off air before you came in all uh. In particular, 554 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: the cockpit area at the very center of this vehicle 555 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: that Ben was describing is directly surrounded by four large 556 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: rings of the fuel that runs the entire vehicle. So 557 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: if you're sitting inside this thing, you're literally surrounded by 558 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: all of the combustible stuff that is being used to 559 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: run the fool. So if you take a direct hit, 560 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: you're just like you're just your toast. You're sacrificing, Uh, 561 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: You're sacrifice endurability for flexibility or agility would be a 562 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: better word. Your your main strategy is to not get hit. Well, 563 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: it's like those U boats where they had the toilets 564 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: mounted right above the batteries. That ran the whole thing. 565 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: So in the toilets malfunction, that would like flood the 566 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: batteries and cause all these problems because it's sort of like, 567 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, you take a hit on design in ordered 568 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: or you take a hit maybe on safety in order 569 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: to like pack more features into it. It's just like 570 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: a video game where you can choose characters that are 571 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: faster than average but weaker, or you can choose characters 572 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: that are absolute tanks. But yeah, well then let's let's 573 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: just talk about this really fast, because I was fascinated 574 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: by that design, and I am nowhere near an engineer 575 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: or a physicist or anything like that. But you have 576 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: to imagine the fuel tanks in a vehicle like this 577 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: are gonna be like fairly heavy at the beginning at takeoff, 578 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 1: right when you're all fueled up. Then by the end 579 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: of your mission that's gonna be the weight at the 580 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 1: center of the vehicle is going to be significantly reduced 581 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: to change the handling probably right, well, I mean, because 582 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: you're you know, literally the spinning disk part of this 583 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 1: is what's giving you not fully propulsion, but it's what's 584 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: sting the craft to effect and keeping you in the air. Um. 585 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: The whole thing blows my mind. Um, and I just 586 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: want to hear from anybody out there listening that understands 587 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: the physics of it a little better. Please please look 588 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: at look at the project documentation and let us know 589 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: here's a here's a weird thing. Though it still is 590 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: not clear why to that original question, one of us supposed, 591 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: it still isn't clear why it's taken more than sixty 592 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: years for this to be declassified, especially if they didn't 593 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: actually build anything other than that little avro car prototype. 594 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 1: But it follows on from the declassified news in two 595 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: thousand and eight that the US government has been monitoring 596 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: UFO activity for decades in secret, way after they said 597 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: Project blue Book was over. And furthermore, there are apparently 598 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: rumors that they are apparently two entire boxes of Projects 599 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: sevent d documents, but only only a handful of images 600 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: have been digitized. Yeah, literally four that we we were 601 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: able to find in making this episode. So here's the problem. 602 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: The story gets murky, right. The closest thing we have 603 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,399 Speaker 1: to a real prototype is that VZ nine avro car, 604 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: and that prototype, by all accounts, was a stinker. It 605 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: was originally special five for mac speed of three hundred 606 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: miles per hour with a ceiling of ten thousand feet 607 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: instead of a hundred thousand, but in practice it never 608 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: got more than three feet off the ground. Its top 609 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: speed was thirty five miles per hour. This, yeah, I know. 610 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: In despite the Avrocar's failures, which were clear and apparent, 611 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: it's also clear and apparent that the US government was 612 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: indeed working on aircraft in the nineteen fifties that resembled 613 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: flying saucers. Suffice to say, the US may have been 614 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: working on flying saucers back in the forties around the 615 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: same time as the Roswell UFO incident. Now we're we're 616 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: going we're putting some strings together here, That's what I 617 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: was gonna ask. I mean, you know, let's let's presuppose 618 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: that they did discover some kind of craft at Roswell. 619 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: Do you think it's possible that they took a queue 620 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: from some of that technology that they found, if in 621 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: fact this happened, and then tried to apply it to 622 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: you know, the design, maybe quite possibly. Yeah. And this uh, 623 00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,359 Speaker 1: and that's why it was classified for so long, even 624 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: though they knew they weren't going to pursue it. Anymore 625 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: because it would raise these questions. Maybe a Soviet saucer 626 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,919 Speaker 1: crashed and then they had to make a whole dog 627 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: and pony show about pretending to invent the technology on 628 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,399 Speaker 1: their own. It's interesting, and that kind of duplicity does 629 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,320 Speaker 1: play into international affairs. It's fascinating, it's addictive and tempting 630 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: to to think of what could have been. We do 631 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: have an episode where we get as close as we 632 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 1: can to discerning the cause of of that event that's 633 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: commonly called you know, Roswell or groom Lake, but we 634 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: don't want to spoil it for you. No, and I 635 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: would highly yeah, I check it out, highly recommend the 636 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 1: YouTube series that we made on that tube. We did 637 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: a YouTube to wow on time flies. Well. Unlike other 638 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: experimental projects of the same era, this project was fully 639 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: canceled in December nine. That leaves us with some troubling questions. 640 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: Why would you pour all of this money into something 641 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: just to shelve it later. There are a couple of possibility. First, 642 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: one obvious one. We could say it just didn't work, 643 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: either because our engineering ability or technology at the time 644 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: was just inadequate to solve the problems, or because the 645 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: physics involved. We're beyond our ken as well. And again, 646 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,399 Speaker 1: like we're talking about earlier, we know this happens all 647 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: the time with military prototypes. Like they designed a circular ship. 648 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: Remember that one terrible idea when the guns would fire, 649 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: they would shoot the ship around in circles. You know. 650 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: It was somebody, some general or something. It was really 651 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: hot for this idea and was high up enough in 652 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: the you know, the military, that he got the dollars, 653 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: but it was an embarrassable, terrible idea. Could very well 654 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: be the case here. They don't like to admit defeat. 655 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 1: And then yeah, and then there was that there was 656 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: that tank that was essentially a sphere that just had 657 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: three guns randomly pointing out, Oh it's great. Well, you 658 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: have to earn it, you know, you have to earn 659 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: these great innovations and not uh not everything is going 660 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: to be the goose that leads the golden egg. But 661 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: we do know that the military pursued something like this, 662 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: and it's something that we're all familiar with today. Right. 663 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well we can't. We've brought it up a 664 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: little bit already in the show. But helicopters, if you're 665 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: if you want to have a vertical takeoff and landing solution. Well, 666 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: guess what we got these things called helicopters. You can 667 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: have bigger helicopters that have multiple propellers, right, that's right. 668 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: You know, they can't do a lot of the things 669 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: that the military wanted to do, dives and such, and 670 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: evasive maneuver is probably more difficult, and specifically getting as 671 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: high into the atmosphere as these vehicles or go anywhere 672 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: near as fast as they wanted these vehicles to go. 673 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: There's some fast helicopters, but nothing like that. But what 674 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: helicopters did do is fix that problem that the military had, 675 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 1: or at least the perceived problem the military had, of 676 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 1: these giant runways of their far flung bases and needing 677 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 1: to have defense of those bases and as well as 678 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: having aircraft that could deploy quickly and you know, go 679 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: up and down quickly rather than have to take off 680 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: with a big runway. So maybe they just found a 681 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: compromise then, right, and they said this is what we 682 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: can realistically do now. It certainly seems like it. And 683 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,760 Speaker 1: the timing makes a lot of sense here too, because 684 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 1: if this the Avro car was canceled December nine. In 685 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,839 Speaker 1: early nineteen sixty two, that's when the U. S. Air 686 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: Force really started ramping up their training of personnel that 687 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 1: can both fly and work on helicopters, like mechanics essentially 688 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: pilots and mechanics, because they're like, this is the best 689 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: we got. We better just known it. Well, yeah, because 690 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: again it's the Vietnam War really ramps up, and that's 691 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 1: when we we see a lot more helicopters. Another possibility, 692 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: this was just one of many experiments or or dabblings 693 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: that a terrified government participated in. Maybe not so much 694 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 1: because they thought it was practical. Uh, maybe more because 695 00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: they were hoping to keep their ideological rivals, the SSR, 696 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: at bay. So many weird things come from the psychological 697 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: mind games of the Cold War. You know, we experimented 698 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 1: with psychic powers, esp astral travel, and we're convinced, many 699 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: people in the US, the U. S. Military industrial complex, 700 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: we're convinced that not only we're Soviet forces doing the 701 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 1: same thing, but that they were doing it successfully. So 702 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: they were like, more money, teach that guy how to 703 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: kill things with his mind. So I've got, I've got. 704 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: This is what I believe I'm just gonna tell you. 705 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you my opinion right now late on me. 706 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: The reason why we only have four images, four pages 707 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 1: from projects is because it, rather than being a reaction 708 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: to some Soviet thing that we thought was happening, this 709 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,959 Speaker 1: is us trying to get the Soviet Union to spend 710 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: a crap load of money trying to build one of 711 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: these things. Because we've already got this design and it's 712 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,879 Speaker 1: going to do all these things. It's our or psychological 713 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: manipulation of them. Counterpoint, it would have to have leaked 714 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: in some controllable way. They leaked it on purpose, I think, 715 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: to some mold that they knew was around. Okay, yeah, yeah, 716 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: Well that that does lead us to one one more possibility. 717 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: What if this is a cover story or something like it. 718 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: You know, I mean, now, far be it for us 719 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: to sound two out there, but it is common practice 720 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: to run these games of deception. You know, tanks were 721 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: called tanks because they were originally shipped under false you know, 722 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: under false pretense, false papers. They were called water tanks, right, 723 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: and it turned out that they were these rolling weapons 724 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: of mass destruction. For the time, It's completely understandable that 725 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: people would say there was something else to the story. 726 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,839 Speaker 1: We have to keep in mind additionally that the US 727 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: government another world fronts have had massive success suppressing technology 728 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: in the past. Bombers, especially stealth bombers. Right, We grew 729 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,800 Speaker 1: up in an era where they were this open secret, 730 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,919 Speaker 1: and every so often popular mechanics would write a piece saying, oh, 731 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: maybe it's true, but it's not. And it turns out 732 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: they were totally true. They were totally true, and they 733 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: looked insane, like nothing you would ever seem so metal, 734 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Right, So, in conclusion, yes, 735 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: it turns out there are slash were real flying saucers. 736 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: They were built here on Earth, and according to the 737 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: official narratives, they were what we in the automotive world 738 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:46,439 Speaker 1: would call lemons or real pieces issues. However, the US 739 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: government and numerous aerospace companies have again proven themselves fully 740 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: capable of suppressing technology for some time. We just don't 741 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: know how long that time horizon is. You know what 742 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: they call lemons, guys, Lemons are nice? What's wrong with lemons? 743 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 1: M it's just so sour. Maybe it implies that there's 744 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 1: something wrong with it. A perfectly good lemon is just 745 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,800 Speaker 1: it's just it's just just that it's a lemon. According 746 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: to the Online Etymology Dictionary, no one really knows. There 747 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: are a couple. There are a couple of possibilities. Lemon 748 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:19,800 Speaker 1: used to be slaying for a person who is a 749 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: quote loser or a simpleton. Uh, they would be dumb 750 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: as a lemon, I guess. And Uh. Then there was 751 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: British pool hall slang where a lemon game was a 752 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 1: game that was played by someone hustling. You. Oh, that 753 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: makes more sense to me if it's a lemon, because 754 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,839 Speaker 1: the ideas you bottle lemen, right, and not what you see. 755 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: It's what you get, right, Like you you're seeing this 756 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 1: person who is looking like something, but they're actually like 757 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 1: something else. There you go, Well, now that we went 758 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,840 Speaker 1: down the how etymological rabbit hole? How much do you 759 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 1: like lemen? Do you? Are you somebody just straight up 760 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,839 Speaker 1: eats lemons? Know what I will tell you this? Um, 761 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: I bought these things. They are called super berry pills. 762 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: Have you heard about this? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And they 763 00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: make sour things taste sweet. So you can eat one 764 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: these pills and it fundamentally changes the way your taste 765 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: buds perceive sourness and sweetness, so you can suck on 766 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: a lemon and it tastes like sugar. I've been, I've 767 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,359 Speaker 1: been to the taste taste hacking parties to those those 768 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 1: things were pretty cool. It's an interesting experience if you 769 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,800 Speaker 1: haven't tried it before, especially if you have some form 770 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,839 Speaker 1: of uh gustatory synesthesia. I can only imagine what kind 771 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 1: of colors you will see. It is completely possible that 772 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: at least some of those UFO sightings back in the forties, 773 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,960 Speaker 1: well before the declassified memos mentioned AVRO, could have been 774 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 1: attributed to similar or other related projects. What kind I 775 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: know that a lot of us listening now are saying 776 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: mention it. You guys, don't swindle list You have to 777 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,880 Speaker 1: mention it on air. Whatever you talk about this topic, 778 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: Nazi UFOs, Nazi technology. Do you mean some battle right right? 779 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 1: Or the horton right? There is compelling evidence of innovative 780 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,840 Speaker 1: prototypes made by the Nazi regime around that time, and 781 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: we have various episodes all about it, so you can 782 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 1: check those out easily on our website stuff they don't 783 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: want you to know, or YouTube or wherever you find 784 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 1: your favorite shows and podcasts. All together, though, FACTI flying saucers. 785 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: We're kind of real, yeah, even officially kind of real, 786 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: at least for a second. It makes you wonder what 787 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: else is up there in the atmosphere today, you know 788 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: what I mean? What do you think? Let us know? Also, 789 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 1: let us know what you think about helicopters. Have you, guys, 790 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,279 Speaker 1: ever been in a helicopter only once or twice once? 791 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: They're great? Have you seen those Chinook Those are the 792 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,400 Speaker 1: twin Prop. Yeah, and they were actually in development not 793 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: far off from when this Avro deal was going on 794 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: in ven by the Vertal company. People are trying to 795 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: solve the same problem in different ways. There are also 796 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: depend on in the city in which you live, there 797 00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: are helicopter tours, So I would say, unless they're super expensive, 798 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: get on one if you can. It's a great date idea. 799 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 1: And apparently in New York now, Uber is operating helicopters 800 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: where you can get an Uber helicopter to pick you 801 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 1: up and take you to the airport. And it's only 802 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 1: about the cost of a flight, you know. But I'll 803 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: tell you, man, it's weird flex taking a taking a 804 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 1: lift or an Uber to the airport in New York 805 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 1: City is a harrowing experience. It's an endeavor yet a 806 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,360 Speaker 1: long time people who drive regularly in New York have 807 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,799 Speaker 1: made their peace with the afterlife every every time they 808 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,439 Speaker 1: hop in special kind of sadists as well, I would 809 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,160 Speaker 1: say kudo ce road warriors also, and perhaps a little 810 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: bit more in line with today's show, let us know 811 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: whether you think there is technology still being suppressed today 812 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: and if so, what we often hear for instance that 813 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 1: at least in the realm of software and algorithms, the 814 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,759 Speaker 1: n essay is is far ahead of what would be 815 00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:02,440 Speaker 1: considered viable or ethical in in the public commercial sphere. 816 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: So what what kind of stuff do you think is 817 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: out there? We're we're interested and please send any corresponding 818 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 1: links or evidence you have. Do you think it's all 819 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of bunk? Do you think this is mass hysteria? 820 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: Let us know, let us know what and why? That's right? 821 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,279 Speaker 1: Find us on Facebook and Twitter where we're conspiracy stuff. 822 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,359 Speaker 1: Find us on Instagram where we're conspiracy stuff show. If 823 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,840 Speaker 1: you don't want to do that, leave us a message. 824 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,160 Speaker 1: Like we said at the top, we are one eight 825 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: three three st d w y t K. And if 826 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,839 Speaker 1: you don't want to do any of that, stuff. There's more, Oh, 827 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,880 Speaker 1: there's more. Yeah. You can find me and Ben individually 828 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,920 Speaker 1: on Instagram if you so choose. I am at how 829 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 1: Now Noel Brown. You can find me getting kicked into 830 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,719 Speaker 1: and out of various airports, countries and regions at Ben 831 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:51,960 Speaker 1: Bowling Natural Planes comment, no comment, Oh that's great and 832 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,479 Speaker 1: uh yeah, so that's it. If you want to send 833 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,359 Speaker 1: an email to us that we will see on our 834 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,120 Speaker 1: phones and computers and all that's stuff, just send this 835 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:23,880 Speaker 1: one to conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they 836 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 1: Don't want you to Know is a production of I 837 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,320 Speaker 1: heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my 838 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,360 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 839 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.