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Speaker 1: On The Bechdelcast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism the patriarchy? Zeffn best start changing with the Bechdelcast.

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Speaker 3: Hello Bechdel Cast listeners. We've got a little plug at

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Speaker 3: the very top of this episode.

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Speaker 4: It's a double plug. Who wants to go first?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you go first, Jamie.

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Speaker 4: Okay. So I'm really really excited to announce that Wevian House,

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Speaker 4: which is a show created and hosted by Theo Henderson

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Speaker 4: that I also have been executive producing for the last

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Speaker 4: two years, is nominated for a Webbee and we need

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Speaker 4: your help. There is a portion of the web is

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Speaker 4: where you vote. Voting is only opened until April seventeenth.

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Speaker 4: We are in the public service and Activism category. I

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Speaker 4: know we've plugged it on the show before, but if

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Speaker 4: you haven't listened, way to vote and a way to

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Speaker 4: listen to the show will be linked in the description.

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Speaker 4: And the show is hosted by THEO, who has previously unhoused.

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Speaker 4: Started the podcast while living on the streets of LA

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Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen and has since grown into the only

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Speaker 4: podcast in existence that talks about issues that affect the unhoused,

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Speaker 4: told by and centered on unhass people. It is like

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Speaker 4: such a pleasure to work on this show, and I'm

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Speaker 4: really excited. So if you have a second, literally, they

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Speaker 4: made us a link where you can just click and

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Speaker 4: go to our category. You don't have to vote in

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Speaker 4: anything else if you don't want to, And it's a

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Speaker 4: tight race right now, so we'd really appreciate your vote

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Speaker 4: and listen to me the end house.

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Speaker 3: It's great, yes, And we'll put that link both on

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Speaker 3: our link tree and in the description of this episode,

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Speaker 3: so easily accessible. Awesome for my plug, it is the

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Speaker 3: shows that I have coming up on the East Coast.

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Speaker 3: One of them is like Tomorrow. If you're listening to

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Speaker 3: this episode on the day it comes out, it's on Friday,

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Speaker 3: April eleventh in State College, Pennsylvania. It's me headlining a

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Speaker 3: stand up show plus a lineup of a bunch of

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Speaker 3: fun local comedians, So come check that out if you're

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Speaker 3: in the central Pennsylvania area. Also same spot, which is

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Speaker 3: the Blue Brick Theater. On Sunday, April thirteenth, I am

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Speaker 3: teaching a stand up workshop. So if you're like wait

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Speaker 3: a minute, I want to I'm interested in stand up,

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Speaker 3: but I don't know how or I don't know how

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Speaker 3: to do it. I'll tell you about it, and then

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Speaker 3: I'm scooting over to New York City. Ever heard of it?

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Speaker 3: Because on April fifteenth, which wait a minute, isn't that

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Speaker 3: the day Titanic sank?

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Speaker 4: Whoa?

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Speaker 3: And isn't that also the day that I'm doing a

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Speaker 3: Titanic themed stand up show. It's all commemoracted such an occasion. Well,

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Speaker 3: it's all true. So on April fifteenth, I'm doing a

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Speaker 3: show called A Night to Remember with Caitlin Dorante wow

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Speaker 3: at Union Hall in Brooklyn, and it's me headlining, and

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Speaker 3: then a lineup of many past Bechdel Cast guests, so

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Speaker 3: familiar faces.

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Speaker 4: They have Murderer as well.

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Speaker 3: Oh, such a good lineup. And there's gonna be some

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Speaker 3: other you know, Titanic trivia and little bits here and there.

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Speaker 3: So come out to that. I'd be so grateful. The

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Speaker 3: ticket links are also on our link tree.

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Speaker 4: So lots of things to click on, so many.

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Speaker 3: Links to click on, So go to link tree slash

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Speaker 3: Bechdel Cast and check out all of that and otherwise

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Speaker 3: enjoy this episode on baby girl, cast Hey Jamie, Hey Kaitlyn,

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Speaker 3: drink this full glass of milk that I sent over

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Speaker 3: to you.

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Speaker 4: Is the milk weirdly thick for effect?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Will you later give me a saucer of the same

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Speaker 4: very thick, cumelike milk.

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Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, Oh my god, I'll.

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Speaker 4: Do it, good girl, thank you, Oh my good Listen.

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Speaker 1: I'm lactose intolerant. That scene was super hot to me,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know what that says.

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Speaker 3: I like, just the convulsing my body did is I

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Speaker 3: watched her drink a full glass of milk.

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Speaker 4: That was a bigger ask than anything else that happened

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Speaker 4: to me. I was like, a glass of full milk

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Speaker 4: at ten pm. It was. It wasn't the milk, it

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Speaker 4: was the timing of the milk. A glass of milk

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Speaker 4: at ten pm was like, I'm like, it's nice, it's nice.

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Speaker 4: My dad. That feels like a very okay, we're already

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Speaker 4: off track, but like that feels like a very boomer

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Speaker 4: coated thing, like my dad would drink milk at night.

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Speaker 4: I stopped drinking milk at night when I was twelve,

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Speaker 4: because it turns out it's actually not that good for you.

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Speaker 4: That was like, big milk.

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Speaker 3: We should not be drinking milk after infancy.

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Speaker 4: I mean, as you can. It's not gonna kill you,

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Speaker 4: Like I know, it's gonna killy. Darry is fine, but

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Speaker 4: it's the bodies weren't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Our bodies are not made to digest it.

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Speaker 4: The food pyramid is fake. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Should we just do this episode about dairy instead?

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Speaker 3: Forget Baby Girl. We're talking about dairy.

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Speaker 4: We are the anti dairy. We're the oat milk Lobby. Okay,

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Speaker 4: welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: My name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin, and we

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Speaker 3: are here to talk about baby Girl.

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Speaker 4: We are here doing.

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Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast. This is our show where we examine

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Speaker 3: movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test

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Speaker 3: as a jumping off point. But what on earth is that?

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Speaker 4: Well, Caitlin, I'm glad you asked. The Bechdel Test is

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Speaker 4: a media metric originally created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel

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Speaker 4: for her comic collection Dikes to Watch Out For, and

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Speaker 4: over the years, has turned into a more general media metric.

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Speaker 4: Our version of the test requires that two characters with

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Speaker 4: names of marginalized gender must speak to each other about

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Speaker 4: something other than a man for more than two lines

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Speaker 4: of dialogue, and it should be relevant dialogue that will

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Speaker 4: happen in this movie.

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Speaker 3: But just so you know, just so you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: So the movie today is Baby Girl twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: Our guest today is for a friend of this show.

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Speaker 3: We're very excited to have her. She's a designer and

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Speaker 3: maker of size inclusive leather bondage harnesses, which you can

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Speaker 3: find at Emmaalimo dot com. It's Emma Alamo.

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Speaker 4: Hello, Hello, and welcome Emma. What's up.

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Speaker 1: So excited to talk about this movie with y'all?

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, simply so happy to have you here.

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling that y'all have viewed it very

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Speaker 1: differently than me.

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Speaker 4: No, No, I mean I think you'll be a surprise.

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Speaker 4: I think that they'll definitely be a diversity of opinion,

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Speaker 4: but like, yeah, I guess that it might be as

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Speaker 4: long as everyone's comfortable when we're talking about our experience

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Speaker 4: with this movie. Also like our level of familiarity with

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Speaker 4: Kink in general, because I think that that definitely colors. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: just the amount of informantness you come at this movie

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Speaker 4: with which is important, and I feel like we've kind

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Speaker 4: of neglected it as a show to do that in

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Speaker 4: previous episodes that address kink, because we haven't done it

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Speaker 4: in a while. We grew up exactly.

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Speaker 3: So, Emma, tell us about your experience with the movie,

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Speaker 3: with kink in general, tell us everything, tell us more

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Speaker 3: about your business.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm obviously into kink. Otherwise it would be kind

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Speaker 1: of weird if this if I was just running this

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Speaker 1: business as a full outsider.

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Speaker 4: You're just a neutral You're a neutral party. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But I started actually getting into like power play,

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Speaker 1: like subdom stuff with a partner when I was like

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Speaker 1: twenty two, and I was into it like on an interpersonal,

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Speaker 1: like one on one basis. I had never been a

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Speaker 1: part of the community or gone to any events around

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Speaker 1: it until I started making bondage harnesses. Okay, but now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm we sell at various kink events around the country,

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Speaker 1: so I am at wild kink events all the time,

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Speaker 1: and my threshold for what is normal is very different

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Speaker 1: than most people. Yeah. I was hesitant to see this

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Speaker 1: movie at first, because, first of all, I was like,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be like fifty shades of gray. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: be like really unrealistic and corny and the bad depiction

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Speaker 1: of what subdomn relationships are. And then also I was

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Speaker 1: afraid it might be triggering because I had I had

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Speaker 1: a relationship with a superior at a previous job that

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Speaker 1: ended up being really traumatic, and I was delighted to

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Speaker 1: see that it was neither of those things for me.

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Speaker 1: I loved it so much.

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Speaker 4: Oh great, I mean, this seems to be a pretty

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Speaker 4: well loved movie among sex therapists and kink experts.

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Speaker 1: For the most part. I've it has been kind of

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Speaker 1: divisive in the kink community.

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Speaker 4: I'm excited to hear about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for a number of reasons we can get into later.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, well I'll jump in. And So I have

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Speaker 3: never been very immersed in the kink community, specifically like

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Speaker 3: any kind of dom sub dynamic. I've experimented lightly, never

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Speaker 3: full immersion, but like a little bit of experimentation here

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Speaker 3: and there. And I've had a lot of interactions like

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Speaker 3: conversations with straight dom men, particularly on field, which for

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Speaker 3: anyone who is not familiar.

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Speaker 4: Is a I know where this is going, I know

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Speaker 4: where this I know this one.

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Speaker 3: This is a dating app that is geared toward various

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Speaker 3: communities I would say specifically and particularly the kink and

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Speaker 3: the polyamory community. There's other, you know, bubbles that it

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Speaker 3: appeals to, but I feel like those are kind of

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Speaker 3: like the primary communities that tend to use field and

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Speaker 3: for me, it's like the polyamory aspect of it. That's

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Speaker 3: why I am on and off that. But I've with

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Speaker 3: a lot of men from that app and have like

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Speaker 3: had some experiences with them that are you know, me

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Speaker 3: experimenting with me being a sub, which I've learned that

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Speaker 3: I am not. I am not that at all. If anything,

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Speaker 3: I am a dom, although for me I prefer just

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Speaker 3: like a more kind of balanced to distribution of power

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Speaker 3: in any kind of like romantic or sexual situation. But

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Speaker 3: what I've learned, and I was going to talk about

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Speaker 3: this later, but it's just gonna come up now. I

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Speaker 3: really so a lot of the interactions and experiences I've

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Speaker 3: had in this little journey of figuring out where I

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Speaker 3: am on this spectrum has been me talking to men again,

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Speaker 3: like straight men who consider themselves to be doms, who

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Speaker 3: with evidence I've seen, it feels like many of them,

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Speaker 3: not all of them, of course, but many of them

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Speaker 3: are using kink as a cover to simply be abusive

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Speaker 3: to women. Yes, either physically or sexually, or emotionally or verbally,

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Speaker 3: or any type of abuse that feels like a common thing.

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Speaker 1: I've seen that, Yeah, so much so that it.

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Speaker 3: Put me off a field for a while because I

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Speaker 3: was just having so many I was like matching with

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Speaker 3: people and then they would just like immediately be really

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Speaker 3: inappropriate and.

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Speaker 4: Like without checking in with your boundaries first.

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Speaker 1: Kind of Yeah, and that's not how it's supposed to work,

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Speaker 1: supposed to have a conversation and make sure you're on

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Speaker 1: the same page about stuff exactly.

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Speaker 3: So I I've noticed this trend, and it's just it's

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Speaker 3: a it's a bummer because for those people who are

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Speaker 3: in this community, who are actually doing it respectfully and

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Speaker 3: responsibly in the way that it's meant to be done.

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Speaker 3: It's just I hate that there's all these like abusers

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Speaker 3: out there who are like getting mixed up in that.

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Speaker 3: So that's been kind of my experience with it. And

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Speaker 3: then so I saw this movie in theaters and I

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Speaker 3: couldn't help but feel like there are glimpses of that

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Speaker 3: in Samuel's character. Or maybe it's just that I'm not

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Speaker 3: understanding kink enough hard to say, but I couldn't help

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Speaker 3: but like feel that there was like some degree of that.

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Speaker 3: But we'll we'll talk about that further. But you know,

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Speaker 3: I saw the movie. I it's not really the type

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Speaker 3: of movie that I tend to gravitate toward. It's not

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Speaker 3: very much of a romp, so it didn't really speak

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Speaker 3: to me. I think there's a lot of interesting things

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Speaker 3: about it. I think I didn't really understand what the

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Speaker 3: director's intentions were the first time I saw it, and

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Speaker 3: then I went back and watched some interviews with her,

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Speaker 3: and I came away like with a better understanding and

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Speaker 3: appreciation for what she was trying to do. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I have mixed feelings about the movie in general. Jamie,

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Speaker 3: what about.

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Speaker 4: You, you know, bringing another experience to the table here.

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Speaker 4: I am, I think pretty fairly naive when it comes

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Speaker 4: to kink. I've done some stuff. I'm a monogamy head,

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Speaker 4: uh so, I you know, like with trusted partners, I've

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Speaker 4: done some shit. I don't need to get into it,

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Speaker 4: but I've enjoyed myself. I've played many parts in my day,

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Speaker 4: and I don't mind being submissive as long as I

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Speaker 4: have more money than them. What does that mean. I

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Speaker 4: don't know.

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Speaker 1: I have classic I know exactly what you're talking about.

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Speaker 4: I think that it's it's like it kind of scares

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Speaker 4: me because you're seeing that at the highest possible level

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Speaker 4: in this movie. Yeah. But anyways, I will say I'm

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Speaker 4: very naive when it comes to the king community. I've

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Speaker 4: never really taken part. And if it's okay for me

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Speaker 4: to say so, Emma, you have actually we it was

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Speaker 4: almost two years ago now, or maybe exactly two years ago. Wow, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: we broke bread aka hot dog buns, and then you

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Speaker 4: fit me for a harness in your shop, which was

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Speaker 4: like such a cool experience for me. I'd never had

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Speaker 4: an experience like it, and it's a really great thing

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Speaker 4: and I love it. And so while I consider myself

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Speaker 4: i've I feel like fairly neutral in this area because

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Speaker 4: I you know, most of my experimenting has been I think,

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Speaker 4: kind of vanilla. I think by most people's yardstick. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: I guess I was coming in naive and tried to

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Speaker 4: explore kind of the widest breadth of opinion I could find.

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Speaker 4: And it's really interesting because I mean, there couldn't be

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Speaker 4: a more you know, personal way to come at a

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Speaker 4: movie than like, how do you feel about sex? I

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Speaker 4: also at some points felt like I wasn't old enough

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Speaker 4: to understand some of the dynamics of this movie. And

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Speaker 4: I wonder if I revisited this movie in ten, fifteen,

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Speaker 4: twenty years, if I would view it differently, you know,

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Speaker 4: because I would say a lot of you know, again,

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Speaker 4: like younger letterbox reviewers being like, who would cheat on

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Speaker 4: Antonio Banderas, And I'm like, well, I think that's a

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Speaker 4: fundamental misunderstanding of marriage, not about that. Yeah, yeah, like

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Speaker 4: you know things even if even Antonio Banderas, you know,

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Speaker 4: he's been divorced. So the point is, I, yeah, I

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Speaker 4: even among like writers and people who I really respect

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Speaker 4: their opinions, there's been a huge breadth of opinion, and

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Speaker 4: so I'm very open. I generally liked the movie. I

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Speaker 4: understand where you're coming from, Caitlin. I'm excited to talk

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Speaker 4: about that. I was more. I mean, what really gets

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Speaker 4: me turned on is talking about class. I think that

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Speaker 4: my core issue with the movie is the class setting

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Speaker 4: of it and the motivation for the class setting. I'm

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Speaker 4: interested to talk about that because I can see pros

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Speaker 4: and cons for it, but I think of all the

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Speaker 4: things I appreciated about this movie, some of which might

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Speaker 4: have been under informed, right. I am very sick of seeing,

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Speaker 4: you know, explorations of the absolute richest people in the

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Speaker 4: world and being like they actually are quite complicated people.

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Speaker 4: I'm very frustrated with that, and as a viewer of

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Speaker 4: The White Lotus, I'm kind of pretty burnt out on it.

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Speaker 4: So that setting, because it's like there's kinky people absolutely everywhere, Like,

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Speaker 4: why do we need to choose the number one girl boss?

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Speaker 4: I think I understand why. It just wasn't my favorite choice.

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Speaker 4: But anyways, Yeah, I enjoyed the movie, and I will

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Speaker 4: say one of the things that I was really hung

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Speaker 4: up on, as I always am in Nicole Kidman movies,

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Speaker 4: her wish. She starts this movie with an Australian accent.

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Speaker 4: She does and she and it gets fucked right out

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Speaker 4: of her. It's wild. I literally because I didn't go

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Speaker 4: back and watch because I was like, I'm gonna stand

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Speaker 4: in my truth here. And I know she because you

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Speaker 4: always have to pay attention to the first two scenes

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Speaker 4: of Anicle Kidman movie because it's never this I mean,

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Speaker 4: and I love her, and I actually I think that

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Speaker 4: there is like some really interesting commentary on her career

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Speaker 4: and life that's going on within this movie that sort

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Speaker 4: of echoes what dem Moore got a lot more attention

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Speaker 4: for in the substance this year, where you know, Nicole

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Speaker 4: Kidman has been constantly, you know, if not criticized, speculated.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, well, why you know she's a woman over fifty,

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Speaker 4: why does she have work done in bubble? And this

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Speaker 4: movie directly interfaces with that question in a way that

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Speaker 4: I thought was like really cool. It's like possible to

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Speaker 4: watch this movie and not think about her performance in

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Speaker 4: Eyeswise Chut, Like I think she's just like, yeah, she's

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Speaker 4: so fucking cool. I and I also have some thoughts,

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Speaker 4: so I'm excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 3: I made a letterbox list after I watched this movie

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Speaker 3: entitled movies set around Christmas time in which Nicole Kidman's

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Speaker 3: husband feels emasculated by her sexuality, and on that list

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Speaker 3: is Baby Girl and Eyes Wide Chut.

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Speaker 1: Yes, a great pairing.

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Speaker 4: I love that, right.

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Speaker 1: I love that The like indie movie theater here in

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Speaker 1: Chicago did like a Christmas special and one week the

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Speaker 1: two Christmas movies that they showed were Eyes Wide Hut

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Speaker 1: and Mup at Christmas Carol, And I've never felt more

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Speaker 1: seen by a pairing of movies.

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Speaker 4: Oh Wow, Chicago Forever.

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Speaker 3: Oh mup at Christmas Carol, Best Christmas movie classic.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The other thing I find interesting about this movie, Baby Girl,

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Speaker 3: is that it is one of two movies that came

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Speaker 3: out in twenty twenty four in which Nicole Kidman plays

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Speaker 3: a woman who gets involved with a much younger man,

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Speaker 3: the other one being a Family Affair, that movie where

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Speaker 3: she starts dating Zac Efron's character.

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Speaker 4: I mean that was a really hot thing. I mean, like,

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Speaker 4: this is a twenty four percent mommy porn. Let's make

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Speaker 4: no mistake of like what's happening here? And I say

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Speaker 4: that with unwavering support. But that was a big thing

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Speaker 4: last year because there was also that like Amazon Prime

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Speaker 4: movie with Anne Hathaway that I thought was kind of cute.

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Speaker 4: I think it's called like the Idea of you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, who was the man in that?

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Speaker 4: They're all the same man basically, And I say that

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Speaker 4: again with love. But it's like a very white boy

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Speaker 4: of the Month. I don't know who it was. He

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Speaker 4: did a good job, and Harris Dickinson does a great

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Speaker 4: job in this movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, let's take a quick break and

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Speaker 3: then we'll come back for the recap, shall we. All right,

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Speaker 3: and we're back. Okay, this recap might be see, we'll see.

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Speaker 1: It's a messy movie.

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Speaker 3: It's a messy movie.

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Speaker 4: I'm a feel free to jump in whenever you know

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Speaker 4: this show. Okay.

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Speaker 3: The movie opens mid coitus. A married couple are fucking.

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Speaker 3: This is Romey mathis played by Nicole Kidman, and her

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Speaker 3: husband Jacob played by Antonio benderis of Puss and Boots

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Speaker 3: slash Shrek fame, and.

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Speaker 4: I think that that's his entire filmography. Basically, that's what

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Speaker 4: he's known for. Yeah, yeah, I noticed that, and then

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Speaker 4: I refuse to investigate it further. That both of the

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Speaker 4: men in this movie that are the sexual interests have

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Speaker 4: biblical names. And then I was just sort of like, huh,

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Speaker 4: and then I just kept watching. So maybe that means something.

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Speaker 4: If it does, I don't know what it means, but

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Speaker 4: there it is for you Bible heads out there. Tell

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Speaker 4: me what it means. Who's Jacob, Who's Samuel? I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I didn't get confirmed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have no idea who those people are in

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Speaker 3: the context of the Bible. But anyway, Romy and Jacob finish,

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Speaker 3: and Romy immediately goes into the other room and masturbates

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Speaker 3: in secret, as if the sex she just had wasn't

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Speaker 3: entirely satisfactory.

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Speaker 1: Little wild concept.

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Speaker 3: Let's put a pin in that, shall we? And maybe

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Speaker 3: we even put we thrust a rock card. Pin's that's

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Speaker 3: absolutely naughty of you.

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Speaker 4: Sorry.

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Speaker 1: I do feel like it's important that the porn she

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Speaker 1: watches is like bed sound porn. It's like daddy dom porn.

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Speaker 3: Oh I didn't notice. I couldn't really tell.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, I feel like the guy's calling

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Speaker 1: the woman he's fucking little girl and making like asking

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Speaker 1: her to beg for it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I was paying too much attention to how

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Speaker 3: she was masturbating because I was like, I feel seen

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Speaker 3: here in this moment, and then I won't say any

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Speaker 3: more about it.

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Speaker 1: The most upsetting thing about the whole movie to me

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Speaker 1: is that after she comes, she just shuts her laptop.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't clear her browser history, she doesn't exit out

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Speaker 1: of incognito mode. Who does that?

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Speaker 4: Oh I don't. Who's so powerful? Oh? Really, well, I

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Speaker 4: guess I just no one else has the password. No

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Speaker 4: one else has my fingerprint. God. So I'm just it

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Speaker 4: is kind of funny to jump scare yourself later in

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Speaker 4: the day by being like, oh right, that's where I

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Speaker 4: was at at four am for some reason. It's a

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Speaker 4: fun little game you can play with yourself. That's my

404
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Speaker 4: BDSM when I leave up on my computer for myself later.

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Speaker 3: Wow. I chalked it up to someone so powerful and

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Speaker 3: riches her has to have so much hubris that she's like,

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Speaker 3: there's no there are no consequences to my actions.

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Speaker 4: Oh like she just like lights her laptop on fire

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Speaker 4: at the end of every day. Yeah, just buys a

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Speaker 4: new one, like disposable contacts. Yeah, it is that they

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Speaker 4: are in that level of wealth, which Nicole Kibben, you know,

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Speaker 4: that's her thing, beige wealth with somehow a bad wig.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's a really bad wig.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of her signature at this point.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's what I thought you were going to talk about,

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Speaker 3: and instead you talked about her Australian accent. But we've

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Speaker 3: also thought at length about Nicole Kidman's wigs.

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Speaker 4: I support her wigs.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, we learn more about romy She is the CEO

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Speaker 3: of a huge Amazon like corporation, automation, warehouse delivery AI

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Speaker 3: something something don't really understand, and we're sort of like, yes, exactly,

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Speaker 3: go off girl. It's very pink pussy hat of her

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Speaker 3: to do that. She's also the mother of two teenagers,

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Speaker 3: Isabelle and Nora, played by Esther McGregor and Von Riley, respectively.

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Speaker 3: On Romy's way to work, an aggressive dog is about

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Speaker 3: to attack her on the street, until a young man

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Speaker 3: manages to get the dog under control. This is Samuel

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Speaker 3: Will officially meet and shortly played by Harris Dickinson. Now

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Speaker 3: at work, we meet Romy's assistant as May, played by

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Speaker 3: Sophie Wilde, who introduces Romy to a group of company interns,

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Speaker 3: one of whom is this Samuel guy. And he asks

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Speaker 3: this like bold and like condescending question about the company,

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Speaker 3: and Romy's like, what the fuck?

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Speaker 4: Well, it's like he also is like do you think

435
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 4: that he and Amazon? Intern is like is Amazon ethical

436
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 4: or what? This never comes back to be clear, Like

437
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 4: this is right, never comes back. I think it is

438
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 4: just supposed to. This was one of the clunkier writing

439
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 4: moments for me where I was just like, I think

440
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 4: that's just supposed to endear his character to the younger

441
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 4: audience watching because everyone knows Amazon is bad, but his

442
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 4: character doesn't really care.

443
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I didn't know what to make of it, right,

444
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 3: And to be clear, it's like it's condescending in the

445
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 3: For Romy, I was like, yeah, exactly, Samuel, great question,

446
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 3: but she's like, oh you gross, who is this?

447
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 4: This a whole?

448
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 3: But they make eyes at each other, They're like really

449
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 3: perceiving each other. A little later they run into each other.

450
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 3: They chat briefly about how he got that dog to

451
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 3: calm down, how she shouldn't drink so much coffee, and

452
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 3: we're like, hmm, wonder what dynamic is going to emerge here.

453
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 3: Then that night at home, Romy very shyly asks Jacob

454
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: if they can try some new things in bed, but

455
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 3: he's not very receptive to it, and they just end

456
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 3: up having like pretty regular vanilla hetero sex. Cut to

457
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 3: the company party. At one point, Romy steps outside and

458
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 3: Samuel comes out as well, and he tells her he

459
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: chose her to be his mentor for this like company

460
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: intern mentorship program, and she's like, that's not possible. I'm

461
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 3: not a part of that program. And he's like, yes

462
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 3: it is, and yes you are my mentor and she's

463
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 3: like okay. The next day at the office, Romy finds

464
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: Samuel's discarded necktie on the floor that he like tossed

465
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 3: aside at the party, and she goes into her office

466
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 3: and like rubs her face and lips. She kind of

467
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 3: like she kind of has like mouth sex with it.

468
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, she goes from like sniffing it to like trying

469
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 1: to snort it to shoving them helping in her mouth.

470
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's very horny. Then it's time for Rommy

471
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 3: and Samuel's first meeting for this mentorship program. Rommy doesn't

472
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: really have the time for this. She doesn't want to

473
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 3: be there, and she makes that pretty clear to Samuel,

474
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: but he, like dominantly, stands his ground and they get

475
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: to talking about power and whether or not Romy likes

476
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 3: having power, and Samuel says, I think you like to

477
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: be told what to do, and then they both kind

478
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 3: of acknowledge that that was in a appropriate But when

479
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 3: she goes to leave, he stops her from leaving. Their

480
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 3: faces are like hovering around each other, and then they

481
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: kiss for a few moments, but then Romy's like, sorry, this,

482
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 3: this shouldn't happen, and she leaves, maybe like a week

483
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: or some a few days past.

484
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: Time is confusing.

485
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 3: Time is so confusing in this movie because it seems

486
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 3: to be Christmas the entire time. Yeah yeah, yeah, but

487
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: it never seems cold because they're like outside swimming. But

488
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 3: they're New York, right, and they're in New York. We

489
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 3: don't know, we just don't know how time works in

490
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 3: this universe.

491
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: It's a heated pool.

492
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 4: Oh, the pools are always steamy. Yeah, you're just like,

493
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 4: I guess that that's sometimes. I'm just like, I'm sure

494
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 4: that billionaires have that. I don't know.

495
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a house in the Hampton because it

496
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: took me forever to figure out that they have like

497
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 3: probably an apartment in Manhattan and then a separate house,

498
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: probably in the Hampton's or maybe upstate. I don't know,

499
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 3: but like a whole estate with a huge pool and everything.

500
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 3: I was like, where do they live? But it's like

501
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 3: two separate places, you know, rich people stuff. Okay, So

502
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: they've just had their little meeting and she like runs off.

503
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 3: Some time passes and Samuel approaches her. It seems like

504
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 3: romy hasn't responded to a request to like schedule another

505
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: meeting between them, and she tells Samuel that his behavior

506
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 3: is totally out of line, but she's like, hmm, but

507
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: I'll still think about meeting with you again. Then Romy

508
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 3: goes out for drinks with like some company staff. Her

509
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: assistant esme is there. She has been wanting to talk

510
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 3: to Romy about a possible promotion, but Romy keeps kind

511
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: of blowing her off.

512
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 4: This moment I thought was really fascinating, where like the

513
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 4: movie makes it clear where she's at, where Esmey is

514
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 4: asking for, you know, basically professional affirmation and for advancement

515
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 4: in his career, that she's clearly busting her ass at

516
00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 4: and Romy is on autopilot giving her affirmations while not

517
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 4: listening to her at all and thinking about something totally different.

518
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 4: Which I do think that this movie does have things

519
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 4: to say about girl boss feminism, but maybe just doesn't

520
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 4: quite stick the landing in the way I would want.

521
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 4: But I thought that that was interesting that they made

522
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 4: that very clear, that it's like, oh, she's you know,

523
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 4: she says she's for women, but it's because that's what

524
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 4: you quote unquote had to do to be a successful

525
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 4: woman and not be called evil. Right.

526
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: I feel like Esmey is second wave feminism incarnate, right.

527
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: Because she's like, I want to help other women get

528
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 3: to the you know, climb the corporate ladder. Yeah, and

529
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: suck on capitalism's dick along the way.

530
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

531
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, she's lucky. She's lucky. Esme is pulling from

532
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 4: the playbook that she is. It's very yeah, it's all

533
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 4: very nihilistic, right.

534
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

535
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 3: So anyway, they're at this like drinks thing and Samuel

536
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: is also there and he sends over a glass of

537
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 3: milk to Roamy and she drinks it while make eye contact,

538
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: and then as the night is winding down, he walks

539
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 3: past her and whispers good girl.

540
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 4: And we're like and we're kind of like, I mean,

541
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 4: come on, come on, that was good.

542
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 3: That was good.

543
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 4: That was good.

544
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Romy is managing her life at home. Her daughter Isabelle,

545
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: seems to be dating a couple different people where she's

546
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: in love with someone, but she's also fooling around with

547
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: the neighbor girl and Romy's like, hmm, interesting premise, maybe

548
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 3: I'll try that. And her husband, Jacob is directing a play.

549
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 3: Romy goes to see it, but she leaves right after,

550
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: even though Jacob is like, hey, I need you by

551
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 3: my side, and she's like sorry, I'm too busy initiating

552
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 3: an affair with someone else.

553
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 4: And also like I couldn't fully tell what the play

554
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 4: was about, but it seems like that is like his

555
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 4: zone of projection is like through his work is where he,

556
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,479
Speaker 4: like Rejas, whatever's going on with him, and she is

557
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 4: like not present enough to see what his I don't know.

558
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 4: He's an interesting character, I think like his in his

559
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 4: flavor of internalized misogyny is interesting for sure.

560
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: The play that they're doing head a Gabler seems very intentional.

561
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 4: It was like the modern like that whole you're like

562
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 4: okay with this screen, like what's going on?

563
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And when she comes in when they're rehearsing, it's

564
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: the scene where a man is like pointing a gun

565
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: at a woman and she's like leaning into it.

566
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 3: And this shows you how much I know about theater

567
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 3: because I don't really know what that is. I'm not

568
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: familiar with the play.

569
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 4: I read it in high school. It's a great play.

570
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 4: It's a great play. I don't know there. I mean,

571
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 4: I know that there's been plenty of adaptations, like film

572
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 4: adaptations of it. I don't know that I've ever seen

573
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 4: one though, But yeah, it seemed like a very like

574
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 4: it reminded me of like the current adaptation of Sunset Boulevard.

575
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 4: That's like playing on Broadway with Nicole shirt Singer. It's

576
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 4: like a similar thing. Not that play exactly, but like

577
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 4: the modern Like now we're using screens and you're seeing

578
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 4: it from I think you're seeing had a Galbler from

579
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 4: like the point of view of the gun, and you're like, ohhh,

580
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 4: you know, he was doing a hashtag modern hashtag theater piece.

581
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 3: So true, so true. Yeah, but Romey's too busy for

582
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: his to be interested in his career.

583
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 4: His theater kid bullshit.

584
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she gets a note from Samuel to meet

585
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 3: her at a hotel the next day. So she goes

586
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 3: to the hotel and she's like, I'm here to tell

587
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 3: you that your behavior is unacceptable and we need to

588
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 3: put an end to this. But an end is not

589
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: put to this. He you know, kind of assumes this

590
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 3: role of dom and he tells her to get on

591
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 3: her knees. This all seems to be quite new to her,

592
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 3: and you can kind of see her confusion and inner turmoil,

593
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: but she's turned on by the fact that he has

594
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 3: power over her because he could make one phone call

595
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: and her career, her family, you know, he could turn

596
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 3: her life upside down. And he says this, and she's

597
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: like hubba hubba, Oh my god.

598
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: Oh And then he's like, does that turn you on

599
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: when I say that? And the whole audience is like.

600
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 4: Yes, yes it does to her, which to me again,

601
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 4: I was like I thought that was going to go

602
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 4: somewhere where it was like, oh she I mean, she's

603
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 4: clearly aware that what she's doing is not good, but

604
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 4: then it turns out it might just be a kink

605
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 4: thing and she doesn't care.

606
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So feel like it's important to say that Samuel

607
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: is not like physically threatening in any way he has.

608
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: He acts like a little boy in a lot of ways,

609
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: and like she when she goes to leave, she gets

610
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: to the door and then turns around and runs back

611
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: to him, like she clear I feel like the whole

612
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: movie she's going back and forth between I want this,

613
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: this is unacceptable, and she just kind of doesn't know

614
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: what she wants. No, she doesn't, so unrelatable right, So.

615
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 3: Eventually she starts doing what he tells her to do.

616
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 3: She gets on all fours, She eats candy out of

617
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 3: his hand, then spits it back out all for his instructions,

618
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 3: and then he jerks her off and she has an orgasmic.

619
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 4: Laptop style too, not that he knows the way that

620
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 4: she works her off laptop style.

621
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, And the like gutt roll that she

622
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: lets out.

623
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 4: I was like, you know what, she was robbed of

624
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 4: an Oscar nomination.

625
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I tell me about it. She was, and uh,

626
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: I loved that my nipples, I already know that's where

627
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: my nipples are going. Guttural orgasm sound.

628
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 4: She had to dig deep to find that. I hope

629
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 4: she did. I hope she did a lot of research

630
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 4: at home for that one.

631
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Wait, who's her husband in real life?

632
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 4: Hebb and Fell.

633
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope. I hope he gives her orgasms like that.

634
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 4: I mean that has to be the great part of

635
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: of you know, being a famous actress is like coming

636
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 4: home and being like, guess what you have to make

637
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 4: me come so much? Or I'm going to do a

638
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 4: bad job at work. It's R and D Gauntlet Throne.

639
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 4: Figure it out.

640
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 3: Okay, So then we cut to a montage of Romy

641
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 3: and Samuel's torrid affair. Romy is also balancing her home life.

642
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 3: She comes home one day and Samuel is there. He

643
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 3: had brought her laptop from work because she forgot it. There,

644
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 3: he's hanging out with her husband and two kids, and

645
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 3: then when they're alone, Romy tells Samuel to never show

646
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 3: up at her house again, and then she effectively ends

647
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: their relationship. Reasonable, I think, yeah, quite scary. When he

648
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 3: does that, he does not behave reasonably. He has a

649
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: very angry outburst and he storms off. Then at work,

650
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 3: he tells her that he doesn't feel comfortable working for

651
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 3: her anymore and that he's going to request to be

652
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 3: transferred to a different department. And she's like, you can't

653
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 3: do that. They'll invest the gate why and I could

654
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: get fired, But he doesn't.

655
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 4: Care and he leaves again. Kind of fair reasonable, yeah,

656
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 4: because every time I felt myself starting to be on

657
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 4: Romy's side, I'm like, wait, a second, tremendous abuse of power?

658
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 4: What am I? Yeah, it's like he's he's welcome to

659
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 4: do whatever the fuck he wants, but then also scary

660
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 4: of him to show up at her house. I don't know,

661
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 4: we'll talk about it. I think they're both they're both

662
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 4: maybe quite scary, well, but that doesn't make what she's

663
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 4: doing appropriate whatever.

664
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: Right, totally. At home, romy confesses to Jacob that she

665
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 3: has never had an orgasm with him. He's like what,

666
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 3: and then she leaves and goes to the bar where

667
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 3: Samuel works to try to talk to him, but he

668
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 3: refuses and basically has her kicked out. The next day,

669
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: Jacob is like, did you mean that thing you said

670
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 3: when you've never had an orgasm with me? And she's like,

671
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: JK no, because she lies a lot.

672
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 4: I was tired. I was tired. I mean that is

673
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 4: that is hard to bounce back from.

674
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: I mean, not to walk going back, yeah.

675
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 4: Right, nineteen years no coming, it has to be said,

676
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 4: but impossible to take back. I really, I mean, I

677
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 4: do appreciate that this movie has some sort of just

678
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 4: whatever a good marriage in some ways, but like, if

679
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 4: you're sexually incompatible, that is going to inevitably come up

680
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 4: at some point in your marriage, and that's like a

681
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 4: reasonable request. I don't know, it's interesting, it's interesting totally.

682
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 3: So then at work, Romi has another meeting with Samuel.

683
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 3: They discuss like picking their relationship back up, but setting

684
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: some ground rules, such as the rule is he tells

685
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 3: her what to do and she does it consensually because

686
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 3: they talk about consent and trust, and by the end

687
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 3: of the meeting, she says, I'll do whatever you tell

688
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 3: me to do, and he's like good and he leaves

689
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 3: mid playing with her pussy because he started playing with

690
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: her pussy during this conversation, and then he says good

691
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 3: and then runs out, and we're like, we're like ah.

692
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 3: Cut to a fancy hotel room. Samuel has Romy take

693
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 3: her dress off. She's feeling insecure. He tells her she's beautiful,

694
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 3: that she's his baby girl. That's the name of the movie.

695
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 3: Cheering cue another horny montage. They kiss and fuck and stuff.

696
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: He also has her lap milk out of a saucer.

697
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 3: There also seems to be some you know, cuddling and

698
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 3: aftercare and a lot of dancing, and and lots of dancing.

699
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 4: Which is the most vulnerable thing they do with each other.

700
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 4: In my opinion, it feels like, right, that would be

701
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 4: the hardest thing for me to do, because I was like,

702
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 4: I'm weird. Sorry anyways.

703
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 3: They also establish a safe word, Jacob aka Romy's husband's name,

704
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 3: which is.

705
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: An unhinged choice for a safe word.

706
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 4: I was like, she was nasty for that. She was

707
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 4: nasty for that. Meanwhile, he's directedly had a gabbler minding

708
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 4: his own business, like, come on, not nice.

709
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: I also find it interesting that they don't establish a

710
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 3: safe word until an hour and fifteen minutes into the movie.

711
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 3: I'm like, shouldn't this have happened earlier?

712
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: But it absolutely should have. But also like I feel

713
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: like I have said this over and over again every

714
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: time I'm talking to like a kinky person who didn't

715
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: like this movie. But this movie is not an instruction manual.

716
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 3: On how to do king right, which is what I

717
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 3: didn't understand it first.

718
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

719
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 3: When I saw this, I was like, oh, is this

720
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 3: supposed to be like good representation of kink? And I

721
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 3: realize now that like that's not necessarily true.

722
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

723
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I think that that's like a conversation that

724
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 4: we should have in generally. Yeah, because it's just like

725
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 4: this is a big third fourth wave feminist thing that

726
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 4: we have to get through.

727
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: We'll circle back, yesh, we'll circle back.

728
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 3: Okay. So sometime later, Romy is throwing a party at

729
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 3: her house and she has invited her assistant Esmey, who

730
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 3: brings Samuel because surprise, Esmey and Samuel are dating diabolical.

731
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was not expecting that one twist.

732
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 3: Of the century.

733
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 4: As May innocent girl boss, girl boss.

734
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 3: Down, Yeah, and Romy says to Samuel, She's like, I

735
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 3: don't want you seeing other women your mine. But before

736
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 3: they can continue that discussion, es May walks in on

737
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 3: them and they're like kind of mid embrace, if you

738
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 3: can call it that.

739
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 4: Yes, And of course this makes Samuel's peepe hard hearing

740
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 4: that you know, he belongs to her, and I'm just

741
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 4: like my poor girl boss catching astray. But as revenge,

742
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 4: she will become presumably the most evil person in the world.

743
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 4: So what can you do?

744
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 3: Seems like she's really on that path.

745
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

746
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

747
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 3: Later at work, Romy pulls esmander office and Esmey thinks

748
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 3: they're going to talk about her promotion, like her future

749
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: at the company, but instead Romy asks esme about Samuel

750
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 3: and tells her to be careful because she's in a

751
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 3: position of power over him since he's an intern. And

752
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: we're like, hello, like pot calling the kettle black much?

753
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, Caitlyn, that was feminism that you witnessed. That

754
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 4: was think about it, really, think about it.

755
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, sorry, sorry, I was villain behavior wild.

756
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

757
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 3: That night, Romy meets up with Samuel at a nightclub

758
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 3: because he's like, I want to see you. And I

759
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 3: know that I'm getting old because the scene at this nightclub,

760
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, sensory overload.

761
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 4: I was also very stressed out, so stressful. I think

762
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 4: there is there is not an age where I would

763
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 4: have been comfortable in that situation, but I celebrate that.

764
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,479
Speaker 4: I mean, they exist, so there for somebody, There there

765
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 4: for people.

766
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: I did shit like that in my early twenties and

767
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: now I'm like, oh, my earplugs wouldn't be strong enough

768
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: for the music in there. I'd have a migraine the

769
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: next day. I'd have to stay up past my bedtime.

770
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 4: I guess My thing is like it's very possible that maybe,

771
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 4: like I mean, we don't we know very little about

772
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 4: Romy's background. We know that she was like grew up

773
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 4: in possibly some sort of like very restrictive religious cult

774
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 4: like environment. Yeah, so I'm like, maybe these are experiences

775
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 4: that she was deprived of when she was younger that

776
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 4: she's like that she's wanting to experience. That's the only

777
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 4: way I can get there, being like I can't, you know,

778
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 4: I'm thirty one, and I wouldn't be caught dead, But

779
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 4: what can you do? I don't know, different strokes, et cetera.

780
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, anyway, they're at this night club and they

781
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 3: eventually go somewhere quiet and talk about Samuel and how

782
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 3: he is with Romy versus how he is with Esme,

783
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 3: and like the different versions of himself and his conduct.

784
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 3: The next day, as May approaches Romy to be like,

785
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: Number one, you keep blowing me off every time I

786
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 3: try to talk about my promotion. Number two, I know

787
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 3: what's going on between you and Samuel. Number three, I'm

788
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: not blackmailing you, but you can never see Samuel again

789
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 3: and bailing you.

790
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 4: But if you don't promote me, your life is gonna

791
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 4: blow up in ways you couldn't possibly imagine. And you're

792
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 4: just like, oh, no, she's really built for the job.

793
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 4: Like that I thought was a very sinister twist when

794
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 4: you're just like, oh, osme is not for other women.

795
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 4: She's she's sort of it like she thinks she is.

796
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 4: I think she thinks she.

797
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 3: Is right, because the other point she makes is number four,

798
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 3: you're not an ally to other women, Romy, and you

799
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 3: need to do more to lift up other women at

800
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 3: the company, because that's as May's whole thing. She like

801
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 3: wants to start this initiative that like helps women rise

802
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 3: to the top.

803
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 4: But this was also an issue I had with what

804
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 4: was the Zoe Kravitz movie Don't blank Blank twice I

805
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 4: was don't look up. I like they al blunt to

806
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 4: get accept but yeah, that it's like more women should

807
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 4: have access to the villain space. And you're like, I

808
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 4: get like, no, have we not moved? Can we move past?

809
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 4: More women should have access to the villain space? But

810
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 4: you know, I think this movie is trying to say

811
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 4: something about that.

812
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 3: Though at least yeah, ish, okay. So then Romy tells

813
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 3: her husband Jacob that she was with someone else, but

814
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 3: she's lying a lot through this whole thing, saying that

815
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 3: it was only one time. It's someone who Jacob doesn't know.

816
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 3: Even though Jacob does know this person like he and

817
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 3: Samuel of met a couple times. Romy says that it's

818
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 3: someone who she doesn't really even know either, she doesn't

819
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 3: know this person's name, but that she's always had these

820
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 3: like you know, quote unquote dark thoughts and desires and

821
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 3: like she has this fantasy in which, like, you know,

822
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 3: things have to be at stake for her and all

823
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 3: this stuff, and Jacob is furious that she jeopardized their

824
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 3: family and their kids. Then I think this is where

825
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 3: she goes to the like the big fancy house and

826
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: the Hampton's or.

827
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: Whatever, exiles herself to their mansion in the Hamptons.

828
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 4: This and this is also Nicole Kidman cannon, except when

829
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 4: she is you know, and I say this with love,

830
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 4: and when she's playing poor to get an Oscar nomination,

831
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 4: she doesn't do this, but your stock Nicole Kidman character

832
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 4: always has a second house to retreat to, and usually

833
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 4: a second wig kept at the second house.

834
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 3: Of course, yeah, because the first wig gets wet in

835
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 3: the swimming pool whenever Samuel pulls her into the pool.

836
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 4: There's the pool wig in the shed, there's the transit

837
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 4: wig on the on the private jet, and then there's

838
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 4: the vacation wig in the Hamptons. So she's you know,

839
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 4: she's exiled, but you know, she still has five thousand

840
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 4: square feet. She's good.

841
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 3: She's good because like Samuel has showed up at her

842
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 3: her Hampton's house and he's just in her pool. So

843
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 3: they're like, you know, lightly stalking each other throughout the movie,

844
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 3: and she's like, you can't be here because Jacob might

845
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 3: come in and that's exactly what happens. Jacob walks in

846
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 3: on Samuel and Romy just when they're talking, but like.

847
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: Maybe having the first honest conversation with each other they've

848
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: had the whole.

849
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 3: Movie, right, because they're talking about how they've like kind

850
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 3: of played mind games with each other. Jacob comes in

851
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 3: and sees this, and so he and Samuel have a

852
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 3: little scuffle. Things calm down a bit. After a while

853
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 3: they talk some. Jacob has a panic attack, which Samuel

854
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 3: comforts him through, and it's very touchy and intimate and

855
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, you guys should kiss?

856
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Right, they don't like, can this please

857
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: turn into But.

858
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 4: Then you're like, yeah, I get that it's not the time,

859
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 4: but how interesting would it be? But what if? Because

860
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,879
Speaker 4: at that moment, like Antonio Banderis is the wounded dog,

861
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 4: like he's the baby girl. Karis Dickinson can't stop helping

862
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 4: the baby girl. He was born to help the baby girl.

863
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 3: Yes, but after this Samuel leaves for good because we

864
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 3: cut to Romy's office as May has been promoted. Samuel

865
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 3: has been transferred to Japan, another like higher up at

866
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: the company. I think his name is Sebastian, Yes, he

867
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 3: hints to Romy that he knows what was going on

868
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 3: between her and Samuel and that he's like gonna hang

869
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 3: that over her head, and then Romy says, don't ever

870
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 3: talk like that to me again. If I want to

871
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 3: be humiliated, I'll pay someone to do it. Now, get

872
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 3: the fuck out of my office.

873
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 4: God like whoo, which which is yea. But then at

874
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 4: this at this point, for me, every empowerment moment very

875
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 4: much ends in a question mark. She's like, woo, Like,

876
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously you're not rooting for a sabat, but

877
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 4: you're also like impossible for me to root for Romey

878
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 4: at this point. But i'd I don't object to her cubbing.

879
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 4: It seems like that would have solved a lot of

880
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 4: her problems. I don't know, I don't know, there's much

881
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 4: to be said.

882
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 3: Right, And then the movie ends with Romy and Jacob

883
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 3: rekindling their relationship. They're trying a sex thing that she

884
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 3: wants to try, which is basically the thing that Samuel

885
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 3: did to her in the first hotel room, which is

886
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 3: also similar to the way that she masturbates. So that's

887
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 3: how the movie ends. So it opens and ends with

888
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 3: you know, sexual contact between Romy and Jacob, that's the movie.

889
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 3: Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss.

890
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 4: And we're back, and we're back where you begin. Emma,

891
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 4: we're gonna let you take the reins here. We're giving you.

892
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 4: Will you dom us you can and will you dm

893
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 4: us with your knowledge because I'm really.

894
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: More than a more of a sub, but I'll do

895
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 1: my best.

896
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, right, I'm the dam I'm I'm most comfortable

897
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 4: as a sub, so I'm happy to take a back

898
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 4: seat here.

899
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: Caitlyn is daddy.

900
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 4: Daddy girl, You're my baby.

901
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 3: Girls.

902
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 1: I guess, like the first thing that really stood out

903
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: to me about this movie is the way that it

904
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: focuses on her pleasure. I have never seen that in

905
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: like a Hollywood mainstream movie. I never thought I would

906
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: be sitting in a movie theater watching a high budget

907
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: movie where there are sex scenes that only focus on

908
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: the woman's face. Yeah, it's just about her pleasure. Like

909
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: there's a scene where you see her like unbuckling Samuel's

910
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: pants and it's implied that she's about to give him

911
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: a blow job, and then it cuts away because it

912
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: really just focuses on her pleasure and also just the

913
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 1: fact that she's an older woman. Granted she has been

914
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: she's had a lot of plastic surgery to make her

915
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: look younger, which is confusing because I'm like, part of

916
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: me wants to see a more typical, like fifty something

917
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: year old woman, but also it fits her character so well.

918
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: She's the kind of person that would have all of

919
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: the plastic surgery that Nicole Kidman.

920
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 4: Has had, and that it was acknowledged in text in

921
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 4: a way that I see you're getting botox, yes, And honestly,

922
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 4: I wish that was more fully explored. One of the

923
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 4: dynamics that I do wish was more fully explored was

924
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 4: the one between her and her teenage daughter, which comes

925
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 4: up a few times throughout the movie, and you know,

926
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 4: there might not have been space between It's already pretty

927
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 4: long movie, but like, there is one moment where her

928
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 4: witch daughter is it. I couldn't remember the names of

929
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 4: the daughters.

930
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 3: Isabelle is the one that she has a lot more

931
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 3: interactions with.

932
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 4: Yes, Isabelle who who they're they're like our bond is

933
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 4: weird cheaters. But Isabelle early on when they're having Christmas

934
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 4: pictures taken basically explicitly criticizes her mom for getting botox

935
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 4: and shames her for it in a way that like,

936
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 4: my mom never had botox, But I remember, you know,

937
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 4: like as a teenage girl criticizing my mom's appearance in

938
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 4: a way that must have been very painful for her,

939
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 4: in a way that to me at the time, for

940
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 4: whatever reason, felt empowering to me, you know, of like,

941
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 4: and I think that that is a pretty common you know,

942
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 4: not prescriptive, but like a common thing between mothers and daughters,

943
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 4: is that criticism of each other's bodies throughout your life

944
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 4: and seeing that presented, especially in a way that like

945
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 4: if you know anything about I mean, you don't need

946
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 4: to know about Nicole Kidman's career trajectory to understand that moment.

947
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 4: But I did think it was impactful, like in the

948
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 4: context of her career, because she has been you know,

949
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 4: publicly scrutinized quite a bit for the plastic surgery she's gotten.

950
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 4: I don't think she's really spoken on it extensively, not

951
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 4: that she's she has to, you know, but I thought

952
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 4: it was interesting that she, you know, chose this project

953
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 4: where that interaction takes place where she is being you know,

954
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 4: shamed by her own daughter for having this work done.

955
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 4: But also it's clear that this is a part of

956
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,720
Speaker 4: the role that she feels like she needs to play

957
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 4: in order to succeed, which you know, thankfully, Nicole Kidman

958
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 4: is not Jeff Bezos, but she lives in a society

959
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 4: and it fits the role. I totally agree. But I

960
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 4: feel like that's part of the convenience of the class

961
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 4: setting of this movie, which is like a part of

962
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 4: the sort of myth miss I have. Anyways, anyways, sorry

963
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 4: I interrupted you on a Okay, I started damming.

964
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm getting back on my knees. We're all

965
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 3: We're just we're switching. We're switches for switching on this episode.

966
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: In the substance episode, y'all did the other day, I

967
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: think Jamie said something about how an older woman's naked

968
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: body is never shown unless it's a horror movie or

969
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 1: unless it's supposed to be a scary moment, and I

970
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 1: was like, not a baby girl.

971
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, true, we did.

972
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love that you see. Yeah, Like the

973
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 3: focus on a woman's pleasure, the on screen representation of

974
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 3: a woman orgasming, of a woman masturbating like this has

975
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 3: been historically so rare to see in mainstream media that's

976
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 3: not like porn.

977
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially seeing like true true blue lapstop laptop style

978
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 4: masturbation is like maybe I've seen it in a movie before,

979
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 4: but if so, maybe once or twice like true lapstop

980
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 4: style masturbation. It's a classic. Is a classic for a reason,

981
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 4: and it's nice to see it in a movie. I

982
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 4: don't think that a male director would have known be like,

983
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 4: just do it laptop style, you know?

984
00:52:58,440 --> 00:52:59,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, he doesn't know.

985
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: It works a lot of the To go back to,

986
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: like the criticisms from people in the king community, a

987
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,720
Speaker 1: lot of people have said, like, it would be better

988
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: if consent was established earlier, it would be better if

989
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: they communicated more clearly, or if like either of them

990
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,479
Speaker 1: knew what the fuck they were doing. And while like, yes,

991
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: I agree with that, they're also essentially saying like this

992
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: movie would be better if there was no conflict, and

993
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: that's not how movie works, right, And again, it's not

994
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: an instruction manual. It's a story about to fucked up

995
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 1: people figuring their.

996
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 3: Shit out right, So I've every time I watched this,

997
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 3: I just can't help but become hyper focused on Samuel's behavior,

998
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 3: and part of me was like, maybe this is just

999
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 3: not me knowing enough about this dom sub dynamic, and like,

1000
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 3: particularly when it's like the dom is a man, the

1001
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 3: sub is a woman. I was like, maybe I'm just

1002
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 3: like misunderstanding. But what I do know is like there

1003
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 3: does need to be more open communication right off the bat.

1004
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 3: There does need to be very clear boundaries and safe

1005
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:15,479
Speaker 3: words established, and obviously consent throughout the whole experience every

1006
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 3: time is vital, and we just don't see very much

1007
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 3: of that, at least not as much as I would

1008
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 3: have liked to see. And what we see instead, at

1009
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 3: least as far as I'm interpreting it, is Samuel exhibiting

1010
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 3: various signs of abusive behavior. He's often ignoring her boundaries.

1011
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 3: He often barrels past her saying no. There's like a

1012
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 3: whole list I wrote out of all the times where

1013
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 3: she tries to establish a boundary or she says no,

1014
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 3: or she says stop, or she says I can't do this,

1015
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 3: and he just like completely ignores it and barrels.

1016
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 4: Through it prior to their being rules established.

1017
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 3: Exactly like because that sets a really bad precedent that

1018
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 3: no means yes, And then if you just keep blowing

1019
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 3: past the no, you'll wear the person down until they

1020
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 3: do agree and consent, because that's what happens in a

1021
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 3: lot of these scenes where he barrels past her saying no.

1022
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 3: She eventually relents and then it does seem like she's

1023
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 3: consenting to what happens next. But like, that's not how

1024
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 3: this dynamic now should go. And so I mean, I

1025
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 3: think that is when I said earlier, like that this

1026
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 3: is not good representation of a dom sub dynamic. I

1027
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 3: think it's probably authentic in many cases. Again, like a

1028
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 3: lot of what I've experienced, what we see in this

1029
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 3: movie is emblematic of that, but it's not representative of

1030
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 3: a like healthy dynamic. But also like I wish, I

1031
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 3: just I guess I wish that the movie. To me,

1032
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 3: the movie didn't make it as clear as I would

1033
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 3: have wanted it to be that this is an unhealthy,

1034
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 3: toxic example of this dynamic. But curious to hear your

1035
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 3: thoughts on that, Emma.

1036
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, first of all, I get the impression that

1037
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: Samuel also came into that relationship with no background understanding

1038
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: of kink. It seemed like he he picked up on

1039
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 1: the fact that romy was into that and was sort

1040
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: of stepping into that role, right, a pleasure dom you

1041
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: might call it. So I think they're both figuring it out,

1042
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: which is not how you're supposed to do it, But

1043
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I also feel like Romy, I feel

1044
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: like they're both really toxic in the way they behave

1045
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,240
Speaker 1: to each other because Romy is constantly.

1046
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 4: She is his boss's bezos, like.

1047
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: And first of all, like the power dynamic is so

1048
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: like carefully constructed in this movie because like she's as

1049
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: high above him at work as she could possibly be,

1050
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: but she's the sub and you know, he's a man,

1051
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 1: so he has that privilege over her. Like it's just

1052
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: all of these checks and balances that is really helpful, Whereas,

1053
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 1: like the relationship I was in that was fucked up

1054
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: with someone at work he was in addition to like

1055
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 1: being my superior, he was also the dominant one and

1056
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 1: that was terrible. There needs to be like some kind

1057
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: of balance there. But also don't fuck people at work

1058
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: who are above or below you is the main thing.

1059
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 4: Right, It's part of why this movie was so thorny

1060
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 4: for me, and I honestly don't feel like it's been

1061
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 4: out long enough for me to have my head fully

1062
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 4: around it, because I had to keep reminding me myself

1063
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 4: that while I do think that Samuel makes big mistakes

1064
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 4: and has internalized misogyny of his own to work through that,

1065
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 4: first off, ROMY not that this means she should be

1066
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 4: open to abuse of any kind. But I think if

1067
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 4: you gender swap this dynamic, it resolves itself pretty quickly,

1068
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 4: like if Jeff Bezos is being hit on by a

1069
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 4: young woman. In turn, I think that this conversation would

1070
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 4: be quite different, Yes, because Whataomi is doing from a

1071
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 4: power stance, you know, however, you feel about monogamy because

1072
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 4: that is like, you know, that's a personal journey, but

1073
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 4: professionally what she's doing is wrong and it is predatory

1074
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 4: on paper what she's doing by engaging with this, you know,

1075
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 4: and and that was I mean, I think it's like

1076
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 4: an interesting thing to bring up that the movie doesn't

1077
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,919
Speaker 4: fully resolve. But that also brings me to I think, Ema,

1078
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 4: what you were sort of getting to, where it's like,

1079
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 4: what is the job of a movie and what is

1080
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 4: the intended audience?

1081
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: Right?

1082
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 4: Because this is you know, if this movie was rated PG,

1083
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 4: I would be like this even if it was rated

1084
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 4: PG thirteen, honestly, because then an eighth grader can go

1085
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 4: see it, right, and not to say the eighth graders

1086
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 4: don't see R rated movies. I famously saw Lord of

1087
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 4: the Rings Part three in theaters when I should not have. Okay, brag,

1088
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 4: is that R rated? It weirdly was or maybe it

1089
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 4: was PG three.

1090
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 3: I think it was PG.

1091
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 4: I think it was. No, No, they're PG thirteen and

1092
00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 4: I was eleven. Never mind. The point is theoretically adults

1093
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 4: should be saying this movie. That doesn't mean that they won't.

1094
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 4: But I'm just with a critical eye, right, and so

1095
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 4: I you know, and this is something that I have

1096
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 4: mixed feelings on how I've talked about this dynamic on

1097
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 4: the show in the past, and I feel like my

1098
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 4: feelings have sort of evolved with time, where it is

1099
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 4: not the job of the movie Baby Girl to teach

1100
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 4: me what BDSM is. It is the job of the

1101
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 4: movie Baby Girl to tell me the story of Baby Girl.

1102
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 4: Whether I like that story or not, it's totally up

1103
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 4: to me. And I do think that there has been enough,

1104
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 4: you know, not a ton, but there has been discussion

1105
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 4: of BDSM in the public consciousness enough that I feel like,

1106
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 4: as an adult, you know, I'm able to view this

1107
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 4: movie as a pretty vanilla person and decide what I

1108
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 4: want to take and what I don't you know, I

1109
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 4: I guess yeah, like I. The more time goes on,

1110
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 4: the more it's like, especially when it's a movie directed

1111
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 4: by a woman who is the age of the character,

1112
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 4: you know, navigating her own feelings around sexuality, I'm like, yeah,

1113
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 4: you know, anymore than it's Coraley Frsha's job to explain

1114
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 4: to me how an aging person's body is perceived by society,

1115
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 4: you know, I don't know. I do think that their

1116
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 4: relationship is unquestionably messy, yes, but I almost view when

1117
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 4: we've talked about this in the past with fifty Shades

1118
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 4: of Gray, where fifty Shades of Gray does attempt to

1119
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 4: tell you this is how this works, and it tells

1120
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 4: you wrong, you know, just yeah, it's like this is

1121
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 4: BDSM one oh one, and it's like wrong, wrong, wrong, abuse, abuse, abuse,

1122
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 4: and something with Secretary Yeah, which I was gonna point out.

1123
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 4: There's a piece by friend of the cast, Jordane Searles,

1124
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 4: who loved this movie in the LA Review of Books

1125
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 4: that sort of contrasts these I have a quote from

1126
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 4: it to use later. But Secretary, we were not big

1127
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 4: fans of because it lays out BDSM just fundamentally incorrectly,

1128
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,439
Speaker 4: Whereas I feel like what we're seeing here and Emma,

1129
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 4: let me know how you feel about this, because I

1130
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 4: don't know what I'm talking about fully, but just based

1131
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 4: on experience of viewing this and talking about it in

1132
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 4: the past, this movie is not telling you how BDSM works.

1133
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 4: It's showing you how these characters who are fundamentally uninformed

1134
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 4: are working it out in real time. And it's messy

1135
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 4: and it's not correct. And I do think that there

1136
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 4: are Caitlin speaking to your point, like there are abuse

1137
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 4: dynamics at present on not to be like Donald Trump

1138
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 4: on both sides, but on both sides there are I

1139
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 4: think abuse of dynamics present. It is deeply messy, which

1140
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 4: makes the conclusion feel a little weird to me, especially

1141
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 4: on Samuel's side, where he's like, you don't understand how

1142
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 4: sex works today, and here I go to Tokyo and

1143
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 4: you're like, well, that doesn't feel quite right. But I

1144
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 4: don't know. I felt like this movie at very least

1145
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 4: is not trying to tell you this is the right way,

1146
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 4: or even this is the way, because every other movie

1147
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 4: I think we've talked about that covers BDSM in gender

1148
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 4: has tried to give you a prescriptive version that was

1149
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 4: ultimately harmful. Yeah, I don't know. Also I didn't.

1150
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: I think this one is, as much as it's toxic,

1151
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: is more realistic than other depictions of it that I've seen,

1152
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: because most people aren't like, hmm, I'm curious about being dominated.

1153
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to read up on it and then go

1154
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: to a dungeon where they teach classes on it, and

1155
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: then find a vetted dom.

1156
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 4: I feel like a lot of yah, I would do that, but.

1157
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: Okay, Ki, and there's nothing wrong with it. That's again,

1158
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: that's probably the healthiest way to do it. It would

1159
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 1: make a boring movie. Yes, Yes, I feel like a

1160
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: lot of people, especially women, are ashamed of these desires.

1161
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: And I know it took me a while to come

1162
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 1: to terms with because I'm you know, I'm like an

1163
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: outspoken feminist and I'm a strong independent woman or whatever

1164
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 1: romy says she is, and it's weird to square that with.

1165
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: And I like being told what to do and I

1166
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: want to be bossed around and I want to be

1167
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: like not in control, when really it's just that I

1168
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: think the things that we're afraid of often turn into

1169
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: the things that turn us on. It's a subversion.

1170
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 3: I think it would not that would not necessarily make

1171
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 3: a boring movie. If it's someone who like wants to

1172
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 3: do things the healthiest and the most appropriate way. It's

1173
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 3: just that you'd have to find conflict elsewhere. The conflict

1174
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 3: couldn't come from.

1175
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: That's true.

1176
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, dealing with a toxic, abusive partner. It would just

1177
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 3: have to be like whatever the person's own insecurities and

1178
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 3: coming out of their shell, and you know, any other

1179
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 3: number of things that could provide tension in the story.

1180
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 3: So I guess, I guess I would actually really be

1181
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 3: interested in a story.

1182
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:52,479
Speaker 1: Like that in that movie.

1183
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 3: Because for this again, I just like I was. It

1184
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 3: was so hard for me to root for anyone y

1185
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:00,919
Speaker 3: because I like to watch my movies where I could root

1186
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 3: for someone and.

1187
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think this movie is fairly at

1188
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 4: least for me, it was impossible to root for any

1189
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 4: I was.

1190
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: Rooting for the dog.

1191
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 3: I was rooting for Isabelle the Daughter, and that was

1192
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 3: like low key it because it's hard to root for

1193
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 3: romy since she's like missus capitalism girl boss who's exploiting

1194
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 3: her power over her subordinate. It's hard to root for

1195
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 3: Samuel because again he's pushy and abusive. Like there are

1196
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 3: other examples of abuse that Samuel is doing besides the

1197
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 3: ones I mentioned earlier. You know, there's like him saying

1198
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 3: things like, well, you show up dressed like this and

1199
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 3: you expect me to not do anything, you know, the

1200
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 3: way that men have often claimed something like well, she

1201
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 3: shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt if she didn't

1202
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 3: want to be assaulted. Or when he has that like

1203
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 3: angry outburst in the car and he says like, you're

1204
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 3: making me feel this way. I'm screaming and having an

1205
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 3: am albers because you made me do that.

1206
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 1: But that's also in response to her not letting him

1207
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: get out of the car. He's trying to leave and

1208
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: she locks the door and he's like, let me out,

1209
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: and she says no several times. Totally fair, yeah, which

1210
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 1: I'm not saying either of those are the correct thing

1211
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: to do. I'm just like they're constantly bouncing off of

1212
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: each other in their in their toxicity.

1213
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 4: For sure, right, And I think that that speaks, I mean,

1214
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 4: to both of your points in a way. I feel

1215
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 4: like I'm like the ping pong net that. But but

1216
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 4: I see what you're both saying is the fact that

1217
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 4: for a lot of the scenes between them in the

1218
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 4: first half of the movie is I felt myself as

1219
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 4: if you were being like, are there rules in this?

1220
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 4: And I think that they don't know, and that is

1221
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 4: a very very risky, kind of scary space to be

1222
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 4: in in an intimate setting, especially with the power dynamic

1223
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 4: that they have, and the car I feel like is

1224
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 4: sort of like the most extreme of those scenes where

1225
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 4: they're doing this, and I was like, are you guys

1226
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 4: fucking with each other? I don't know, And if I

1227
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 4: don't know, probably you don't know, yeah, because it's not

1228
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 4: like this movie really revels in keeping things from the viewer,

1229
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 4: and so you know, it is extremely, extremely messy for

1230
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 4: the first half of the movie, and then once rules

1231
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 4: are established, things still spiral out of control, but they

1232
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 4: have an understanding, and so as if you were I

1233
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 4: weirdly could feel more relaxed in the back half of

1234
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 4: the movie because I'm like, whatever happens to these motherfuckers,

1235
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 4: they have an understanding, you know, But I don't. I mean,

1236
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 4: I don't know. I I guess I don't. I mean,

1237
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 4: I don't have experience in this world, but it seems

1238
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 4: like I mean, Emma, would you say that this is

1239
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 4: like a fairly realistic like navigation of this to people

1240
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 4: who are unfamiliar with I mean.

1241
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: It's not the way that it should be. And my

1242
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 1: perspective is skewed because I'm basically into the exact same

1243
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 1: shit that Romey is into, and I was also like

1244
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: ashamed of it for a while and like uncomfortable generally

1245
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: telling partners how to even get me off. And a

1246
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: big part of me like coming to terms with what

1247
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: I'm into was through a very toxic relationship at work.

1248
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, so my perspective on this is going to

1249
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 1: be it feels very realistic to me, is what I'm saying.

1250
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: But I yeah, I think a lot of people, I mean,

1251
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 1: just like with regular non kinky relationships, sometimes you have

1252
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 1: to learn, you know, sometimes you have to make mistakes

1253
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 1: totally to learn. And again, this is not the way

1254
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: it should be. This is not healthy, But I do

1255
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 1: think it's realistic.

1256
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 4: I just I mean, yeah, I guess it brings me

1257
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 4: to just like a general question that I'm like navigating

1258
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 4: that I think when we started the show versus now

1259
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 4: I have a different feeling on which is like, what

1260
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 4: is the role of a movie to help a viewer

1261
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 4: on this journey? And I think that a lot of

1262
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 4: people who I've you know, and I am truly not

1263
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,040
Speaker 4: singingly anyone out, but just over the last decade that

1264
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 4: we've been doing this show, basically, there's been plenty of

1265
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:03,479
Speaker 4: media critics that are, like, it's not the movie's jab

1266
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 4: to you know, justify doing something very harmful. But I

1267
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 4: don't think that that is an irrational line of thought,

1268
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 4: you know, And so it is just an absurdly gray area.

1269
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 4: And I think that I used to skew far more

1270
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 4: to like, if not portraying something completely in a black

1271
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 4: and white clear way could pose harm, then it's not

1272
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 4: worth making. I don't necessarily feel that way now, but

1273
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 4: I don't have a solution to it, and so it's

1274
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 4: quite messy.

1275
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: I don't either. Yeah, Like the classic example of that

1276
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of is Fight Club, which was a critique

1277
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 1: of masculinity and then the boys really took it and

1278
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 1: ran with it, like.

1279
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,719
Speaker 4: Written by a gay man, Yeah, yeah, and like it's

1280
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 4: just and what do you do with that? Yeah, it's

1281
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 4: really you know, if we had an answer, this show

1282
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 4: wouldn't exist, but.

1283
01:08:56,160 --> 01:09:00,639
Speaker 3: It still exists. We would just keep talking about Shrek every.

1284
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 4: Episode, so we just do that. We would just air

1285
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 4: this Shrek episode, would be the Shrektal cast, the cast

1286
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 4: I mean, and that is the show's truest forum. That

1287
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 4: is us at our peak. But but for this, like,

1288
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 4: these movies are very challenging in a way that I

1289
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 4: appreciate because there isn't an answer for that. And I

1290
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 4: also feel like it tends to be the movies that

1291
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 4: are made by women that bring these questions up the

1292
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 4: most saliently, where it's like, you know, who am I

1293
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 4: to fight with a director who is making this for

1294
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 4: her peers? You know, I don't know. I don't know.

1295
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 4: I'm interested to watch this movie down the line and

1296
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:36,799
Speaker 4: see how my view of it changes.

1297
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to share some quotes from writer director

1298
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 3: Helena rain Is maybe how you say her last name?

1299
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 3: She is a Dutch director.

1300
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 4: Yes, and we both really loved Bodies, Bodies Bodies.

1301
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it.

1302
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 3: I need to rewatch that. I don't know if I

1303
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:56,560
Speaker 3: would like it as much on the second viewing. I

1304
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 3: don't know. I just need to revisit it.

1305
01:09:58,240 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 4: Okay, misogynists, that's fine.

1306
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hate women.

1307
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm kidding. I endread it. I saw it in

1308
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 4: the movie theater on a day where it was one

1309
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:07,879
Speaker 4: hundred and ten degrees outside.

1310
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 3: Wow.

1311
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 4: So maybe I just loved it because I was cool,

1312
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 4: not dying. Yeah, but I remember really liking it.

1313
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 3: Nice. So I watched a few interviews with Helena and

1314
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 3: I wanted to share some quotes. Some of them are

1315
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 3: kind of along, so bear with me. She did an

1316
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 3: interview on The Daily Show. I'll paraphrase part of what

1317
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 3: she said. She spoke to how this movie is like

1318
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 3: a letter to herself to encourage herself to become more

1319
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 3: unapologetically her authentic self without shame, because she had spoken

1320
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 3: about feeling shame over her various desires and fantasies and

1321
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 3: was trying to reconcile that partly with this movie. She

1322
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 3: also talks about how she wanted it to be funny,

1323
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 3: how it was marketed as an erotic thriller, but she

1324
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 3: classifies it more as a comedy of manners. She talks

1325
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 3: about how she loves the erotic thrillers of the nineties,

1326
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 3: such as Fatal Attraction, Basic Instinct, Unfaithful, nine and a

1327
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 3: half weeks, but that they tend to punish the female lead,

1328
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 3: the fem fatal, etc. She didn't want to punish her characters.

1329
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 3: She was more interested in exploring their humanity. And I'm

1330
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 3: also like, well, does a billionaire have humanity? No? But yeah,

1331
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 3: She's like, you know, we all have a dark side,

1332
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 3: and if you suppress, you know, your deepest, darkest desires.

1333
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 3: Allah what romy is into the kinks that we see

1334
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 3: she's into in the movie. She kind of describes this

1335
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,680
Speaker 3: movie almost as like a cautionary tale of like, this

1336
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 3: is what can happen if you don't more openly explore

1337
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 3: those things and you suppress them for so long. She

1338
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 3: also talked a lot about how a big priority of

1339
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:56,839
Speaker 3: hers on set was making sure that her actors felt

1340
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 3: safe during any scenes, and particularly like the intimacy and

1341
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 3: sex scenes. She wanted them to feel safe both physically

1342
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:10,719
Speaker 3: and emotionally. We talked about that on the Rylay episode,

1343
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 3: how that director was like.

1344
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,120
Speaker 4: I do want to talk more about that?

1345
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'll keep going with these couple more quotes. Yeah,

1346
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 3: and then we can kind of dive in. So now

1347
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 3: I'm quoting her. She says, quote I wanted to make

1348
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:29,520
Speaker 3: a comedy of manners about power, consent, sexuality and femininity.

1349
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 3: Of course is my priority. I'm a woman, so I

1350
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,400
Speaker 3: write from the female gaze. I do anything from the

1351
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 3: female gaze. But the movie is just as much about masculinity.

1352
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 3: It's not a classical story about a sub and a

1353
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:45,799
Speaker 3: dom at all. They are both vulnerable. They're both interested

1354
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:48,639
Speaker 3: in what is power, what is surrender, what is giving

1355
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 3: up control? What is taking control? They're both in crisis.

1356
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 3: She's in a full on midlife crisis where she sees

1357
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 3: the horizon is over there, what am I doing? Where

1358
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 3: am I going? And she thinks she can be this

1359
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:03,560
Speaker 3: perfect creature. If she does enough ice baths and botox

1360
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 3: and therapy, she can become a perfect woman. And she

1361
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 3: has to accept through meeting Samuel, that she has to

1362
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 3: connect to her inner beast. But him as well. He's

1363
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,439
Speaker 3: in a crisis in the sense that he's taking his

1364
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 3: first steps into the world as a man and he

1365
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,680
Speaker 3: doesn't know how to behave He doesn't know how to

1366
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:25,799
Speaker 3: be around power, or how to be around an older woman.

1367
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 3: And I wanted to show that vulnerability. And I think sexuality,

1368
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 3: to me, it can sometimes be very hot, of course,

1369
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:34,879
Speaker 3: but it can be very vulnerable and weird and clunky

1370
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 3: and uncomfortable. And I wanted to show all of that

1371
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 3: because when you see that, you relate to it, and

1372
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 3: in the end, when it does work, then it becomes

1373
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:46,639
Speaker 3: way more sexy than if you just show this perfect

1374
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 3: Hollywood fairy tale. I didn't want to do that. Unquote Okay,

1375
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 3: so flood.

1376
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,600
Speaker 4: This is where I felt like the movie kind of

1377
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 4: pull her me and bid off more than it could chew.

1378
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:06,600
Speaker 4: Where it is trying to tell a story about BDSM

1379
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 4: and those power dynamics and contrast it with real life

1380
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,759
Speaker 4: class power dynamics. And that was where it fell flat

1381
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 4: for me in a big way, and it like almost

1382
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 4: undercut what I thought it did. Again, and this is

1383
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:22,840
Speaker 4: coming from a place of relative in experience, but you know,

1384
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 4: I wish this movie was set in a different class.

1385
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 4: There are power dynamics within every class. I don't know

1386
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 4: why we needed to choose literally Amazon dot Com to

1387
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 4: set this, because that makes romy so fundamentally unlikable from

1388
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 4: moment one. I think that you could have I mean,

1389
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 4: and again, if that's her intent, that's her intent. This

1390
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,679
Speaker 4: is just my opinion, but I think that this would

1391
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,640
Speaker 4: have been a sort of like more little piece of

1392
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 4: gristle to chew on if it took place in like

1393
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 4: an independently owned, like a woman owned small business that

1394
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 4: it was big enough and was growing and had interns,

1395
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 4: and you know, it had sort of like an upstart

1396
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 4: woman in charge that was all of a sudden, you know,

1397
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:13,360
Speaker 4: attracted to an intern. I almost think that that's more

1398
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 4: interesting because first of all, it's easier for audiences to

1399
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:20,800
Speaker 4: connect with, and it's less fundamentally polarizing because no one

1400
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 4: is this movie is I feel like trying to get

1401
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 4: you to be like, what if Jeff Bezos was girl

1402
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:33,560
Speaker 4: and just couldn't come? And that's another thing that I

1403
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 4: kind of resent about, And again, like, feel free to

1404
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 4: correct me. I think that this is something internalized I

1405
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 4: have as well. But I always get a little bit

1406
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 4: frustrated when it's even vaguely implied that the reason that

1407
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,880
Speaker 4: a woman is abusing power is because she's sexually frustrated.

1408
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 4: I don't like that as a trope, and I think

1409
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:58,600
Speaker 4: it is not often this, you know, told that that

1410
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 4: is because we are I think through this movie that

1411
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 4: a part of the reason she does what she does

1412
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 4: is she plays the role that is most advantageous for

1413
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:08,680
Speaker 4: her to play, and that is because she lives in

1414
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:12,120
Speaker 4: a society. But that includes faking orgasms and being Jeff

1415
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 4: Bezos and that sucks in some ways, but in other

1416
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 4: ways is quite evil and is killing us, and so

1417
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,719
Speaker 4: it is hard for me to sympathize with her. Really

1418
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, like it was hard

1419
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 4: for me to connect with her. But I just also

1420
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 4: I think that that has been subtly implied in rom

1421
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 4: comms throughout time. If like we're talking Sandra Bullock two weeks,

1422
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:36,599
Speaker 4: notice she's quote unquote uptight. She just needs to be

1423
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:40,480
Speaker 4: fucked right, and then she will no longer be Jeff Bezos,

1424
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 4: you know, Like and I felt like, again the because

1425
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:49,720
Speaker 4: I am I don't feel qualified to speak on the

1426
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 4: kink issues. I do feel qualified to talk about the

1427
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 4: class issues, where I think that this movie chooses a

1428
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 4: very specific class and then under examines it to a

1429
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 4: pretty wild read. To me, esmey is the closest we

1430
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 4: get to any sort of examination of this. But I

1431
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 4: just felt like, you know, at the end of the day,

1432
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:11,720
Speaker 4: and I do think this is really I don't even know.

1433
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 4: I'm curious what you both think where ultimately she is

1434
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 4: the CEO, she does not experience a consequence for doing this.

1435
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 4: That is very normal, right, But is it normal for

1436
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:25,920
Speaker 4: her to get a Schwarzenegger style one liner over on

1437
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 4: a male coworker who is just below her level and

1438
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:33,360
Speaker 4: be able to get away with it. I'm not even

1439
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 4: sure that that's true, you know, Like, I just I

1440
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 4: feel like at the end, it's like, oh, she got Sebastian,

1441
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 4: good because if she wants to be humiliated, she'll pay.

1442
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 4: I'm like, she's still Jeff Bezos, like yea for you know,

1443
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:48,640
Speaker 4: her morally hasn't resolved. That's fine because, like we were

1444
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:50,759
Speaker 4: talking about, is not the job of the movie Baby

1445
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:52,760
Speaker 4: Girl to tell me that Amazon dot Com is bad.

1446
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:56,640
Speaker 4: I just don't understand why it was set there, because

1447
01:17:56,720 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 4: it does feel like the end note of like and

1448
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 4: now she can come with her husband because she fucked

1449
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 4: her intern. I'm like, what are what's going on here?

1450
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:13,799
Speaker 4: Like what is the class I don't I don't I understand.

1451
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 4: I just don't understand where it falls class wise, because

1452
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 4: I feel like it was trying to say something and

1453
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 4: where it fell was either inconclusive or too European for

1454
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 4: me to discern is where I fell.

1455
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 3: My guess is the idea was like, let's create this

1456
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 3: extreme contrast. Sure again, I'm speculating here, but I wonder

1457
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,920
Speaker 3: if it was like, what would it look like if

1458
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:42,680
Speaker 3: one of the most powerful women in the world is

1459
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 3: submissive sexually.

1460
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,519
Speaker 4: Fine, like whatever you have to do to not be

1461
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:51,559
Speaker 4: Jeff Bezos, do that, Like, just do that. I don't know,

1462
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 4: I don't care.

1463
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: Well.

1464
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:57,719
Speaker 3: I was reminded of your character Jamie from Boss Huma's

1465
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:01,679
Speaker 3: Girl Shell Gasoline Sandwich actually when watching the scenes where

1466
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 3: she's doing her self care routine, because I'm like, what

1467
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 3: the fuck is this? She like goes into this weird

1468
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 3: ice chamber wearing nothing but like ear muffs and mittens

1469
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:13,000
Speaker 3: and like a swimsuit, and then she's doing like oh

1470
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 3: that's how women's ice plunges and botox and then she's

1471
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 3: doing this. I was not familiar with what type of

1472
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:22,559
Speaker 3: therapy this is where you're just like watching a bunch

1473
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:25,759
Speaker 3: of quick flashes of images and then the therapist is like, dr,

1474
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 3: just make you feel what is it?

1475
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:29,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, emdr, emdr.

1476
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 4: I need to research that I have done that. I

1477
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:34,639
Speaker 4: haven't done it. That I haven't done it. With the screens.

1478
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 4: I've just had it with my therapist reading tweets back

1479
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 4: at me. But you know, I just.

1480
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 1: Like, while you stimulate one side of your body and

1481
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 1: then another because it does something to your brain.

1482
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did CVS em DR mostly auditory anyway, that's

1483
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:54,639
Speaker 4: so funny.

1484
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 3: You know, she's this, it's someone who, like I think,

1485
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:02,679
Speaker 3: on the very very surface, people in general would be like, wow,

1486
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 3: this is a this is someone who we should celebrate

1487
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 3: because she's a strong and powerful woman who has succeeded

1488
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:13,880
Speaker 3: in an area largely dominated by men. But we know

1489
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 3: that it's only because she's like trampled on women along

1490
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 3: the way while like again sucking on the dick of

1491
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 3: capitalism and AI, you know, all the stuff that's ruining

1492
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:23,679
Speaker 3: the world.

1493
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 1: Right.

1494
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:29,440
Speaker 4: But that is a good criticism of twenty ten's feminism,

1495
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:33,680
Speaker 4: I think is that, like so much of girl Boss feminism,

1496
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 4: you know, going back to whatever lean in was, what

1497
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 4: twenty eleven, twenty twelve, but that whole era of feminism

1498
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:43,400
Speaker 4: was whatever is keeping you from your success is wrong

1499
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 4: with you, So step on any woman's head you need to,

1500
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 4: and then you'll be Jeff Bezos And that's feminism. And

1501
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 4: like that was the whole idea, and that is clearly

1502
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 4: where Romy is coming from. And that's also like Esme

1503
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 4: aspires to a version that which I found kind of

1504
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 4: like that was one of the more devastating and the

1505
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 4: movie intends that. I'm not saying, like how dare the movie,

1506
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:10,920
Speaker 4: but like that was devastating to see that, Like as

1507
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 4: May of course she's successful, she's as conniving as Romy

1508
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:18,639
Speaker 4: would be in that situation twenty years earlier. Is that

1509
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 4: you know, as Ma is a fan of feminism as

1510
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 4: far as it goes to giving women access to evil

1511
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 4: as well, right, Like.

1512
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 3: I love corporate feminism.

1513
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 4: Right, And that it's also acknowledged, I think, probably not

1514
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 4: as overtly as it should be, but that you know,

1515
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 4: Esbae is ignored not only because of her youth, but

1516
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 4: because of her race. She's put in this subservient role

1517
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 4: to Romy. She's the only black woman we get to

1518
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 4: know remotely well, and she is used by everyone around her. Yeah,

1519
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 4: And the reveal quote unquote with her is that she

1520
01:21:57,320 --> 01:22:00,519
Speaker 4: is well aware of this, and you know, she's like,

1521
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:03,599
Speaker 4: I know that it is impossible to get the promotion

1522
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 4: that I know I deserve through you know, marriage, moral

1523
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:12,360
Speaker 4: means yeah, because it's like she does deserve it, but

1524
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 4: who deserves to be Jeff Bezos, you know, like, so

1525
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 4: it is it introduces this really I think interesting question,

1526
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,519
Speaker 4: but it just doesn't feel like I just wasn't happy

1527
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 4: with where the movie landed because it did. I don't know,

1528
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:29,719
Speaker 4: did it feel like a happy ending for you both?

1529
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 4: Like I felt to me too happy of an ending

1530
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:34,760
Speaker 4: for her, of like now she can come, I can't,

1531
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 4: and you're like.

1532
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,280
Speaker 1: Okay, decide how I feel about that ending.

1533
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 4: I thought the I felt like the last I found

1534
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:41,720
Speaker 4: the last fifteen minutes quite frustrating.

1535
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 1: Honestly, I don't think it like and it's a like

1536
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,320
Speaker 1: necessarily a happy ending for her, although it is technically

1537
01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:51,759
Speaker 1: a happy ending because she's coming, but because she's she's

1538
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:54,679
Speaker 1: like found a way to work some of her desires

1539
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:58,639
Speaker 1: into her life, but it's largely by fantasizing while she's

1540
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: having sex with her husband. So she's like her desires

1541
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:06,439
Speaker 1: aren't like a secret anymore, but she's not fully embracing them.

1542
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 1: She's just finding a way to make it work. And

1543
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: also by the implication that she might be like paying

1544
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:11,360
Speaker 1: for sex.

1545
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:16,160
Speaker 4: Mm, I mean I would rather that she do that

1546
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:21,639
Speaker 4: than like fucking her own interns. Absolutely she has the money,

1547
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 4: Like I guess, yeah, I guess. I do appreciate that

1548
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 4: it wasn't like as explicit as and now because all

1549
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:32,559
Speaker 4: of the events of the movie Baby Girl. Yeah, when

1550
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 4: Antonio Banderas fucks me, I just come normal, Like I

1551
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:40,000
Speaker 4: appreciate that there is at least like there is always

1552
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 4: gonna be these layers of complication. But I don't know,

1553
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:46,759
Speaker 4: I just I felt like the movie in general, because

1554
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 4: of the class setting, ultimately felt too kind of like

1555
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 4: myopically focused on Romi in a way that really and

1556
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:58,439
Speaker 4: maybe this was the intention, but it really made me

1557
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 4: work as a VI You're to have to constantly pull

1558
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,200
Speaker 4: out to be like, wait, why am I rooting for

1559
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 4: this woman's happiness?

1560
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1561
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,840
Speaker 4: Why am I rooting for this woman's happiness? Like, yeah,

1562
01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1563
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 1: I don't even know, like if I was rooting for

1564
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 1: anything in particular in this movie, I was just so

1565
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:18,080
Speaker 1: taken by the way it shows.

1566
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:19,760
Speaker 4: Power okay, yeah, and.

1567
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 1: The way that like that evolves throughout the movie. There

1568
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:25,639
Speaker 1: are several scenes that like where a scene will happen

1569
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 1: in the first half and then a similar scene will

1570
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 1: happen in the second half, and the power's totally reversed,

1571
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:34,559
Speaker 1: like like as May like meeting with Romy in the

1572
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,960
Speaker 1: beginning and Romy has all of the power, and then

1573
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 1: at their meeting towards the end, as May has all

1574
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 1: of the power and is calling the shots, or the

1575
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 1: same with the meeting that Samuel and Romy have, or

1576
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:49,760
Speaker 1: even in the sex montage towards the beginning, Samuel breaks

1577
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 1: a cup and has Romy clean it up, and towards

1578
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 1: the end, Romy drops a plate and Samuel cleans it up.

1579
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 1: I feel like they're just like toppling over what is power?

1580
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:01,759
Speaker 1: Which is which? Is like a really interesting question within

1581
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:05,080
Speaker 1: the BDSM context, because most people will say in a

1582
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:07,840
Speaker 1: subdom relationship, the sub is the one who has.

1583
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 4: The power, right.

1584
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:12,720
Speaker 3: I remember like learning this when we were researching for Yeah,

1585
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:16,200
Speaker 3: the Fifty Shades of Gray episode. I was like, Oh,

1586
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,760
Speaker 3: I'm surprised, but now it makes perfect sense to me.

1587
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:21,479
Speaker 1: That was really cute. You had like a book report

1588
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:22,360
Speaker 1: on kingk.

1589
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:30,439
Speaker 3: Wow, humiliating for me our old episodes simpler times similar times.

1590
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 1: I also, I guess I want to say that I

1591
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 1: feel like there would be more context for a movie

1592
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 1: like this to not have a negative influence if there

1593
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 1: was more context for kink and media in general exactly,

1594
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 1: like if there was the movie where it's someone getting

1595
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 1: into kink and maybe like that isn't the focal point,

1596
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 1: That isn't the struggle, like if it was just a

1597
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 1: thing about someone instead of the central struggle of the movie.

1598
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:54,519
Speaker 3: I'm going to write this, okay, please do yeah, my

1599
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:57,479
Speaker 3: screenwriting degree that I would never talk about, and.

1600
01:25:57,400 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 4: Make it PG thirteen so that everyone has to see

1601
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,240
Speaker 4: that movie. Like I mean, it would be hard to

1602
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 4: make it PG thirteen because you know, the ratings board

1603
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:08,920
Speaker 4: is so Protestant. But I believe in you.

1604
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:09,680
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1605
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that like media literacy does set complicated

1606
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:17,360
Speaker 4: movies like this backwards, and yet I still do feel

1607
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:19,720
Speaker 4: like it's biting upward, that it can chew. Something I

1608
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 4: wanted to talk about, yeah, was something that because we

1609
01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 4: recently or two weeks ago, we did our big Oscars show,

1610
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:31,080
Speaker 4: and I wanted to talk briefly about intimacy coordinators because

1611
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 4: it was a big conversation around the Oscars this year,

1612
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:40,360
Speaker 4: primarily because the sort of Oscar sweep movie of the year, Anora,

1613
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 4: did not use intimacy coordinators. It was a sort of

1614
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:49,679
Speaker 4: big talking point of you know, just because intimacy coordinators are,

1615
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 4: at least in big budget productions, are relatively new normative thing.

1616
01:26:56,920 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 4: Anora was an independent production, they opted to not go

1617
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 4: with intimacy coordinators. You can read up on that. But

1618
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 4: I say that because in late December there was sort

1619
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:12,720
Speaker 4: of uh, you know, sort of upright uprising. There wasn't

1620
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:16,920
Speaker 4: an uprising, there was a social media don't want to

1621
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 4: start one. We have bigger fish to fry, honestly, Like,

1622
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:24,280
Speaker 4: if you're doing an uprising over Theonora intimacy coordinator thing,

1623
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:29,640
Speaker 4: redirect your energy. Truly, people are dying, Kim. But in

1624
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:33,400
Speaker 4: any case, there was a conversation, a valid conversation around

1625
01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:37,240
Speaker 4: that where you know, both Sean Baker and Mikey Madison,

1626
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:40,720
Speaker 4: who the starry director of Honora, said we opted to

1627
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 4: not go with intimacy coordinators. It got a fair amount

1628
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 4: of criticism. I don't want to comment on that. What

1629
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:49,799
Speaker 4: I will say is that the crew of this movie,

1630
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 4: including I know I have to try to say her name,

1631
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 4: Helena Rashan, responded to this by saying that Baby Girl

1632
01:27:58,439 --> 01:28:01,639
Speaker 4: did use an indepacy coretor and got a lot out

1633
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 4: of it, and that's something that I really appreciated a god. Yeah, yes,

1634
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 4: because especially with and this speaks to your point, Emma,

1635
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:13,639
Speaker 4: the amount of under education that exists in the general

1636
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:18,360
Speaker 4: public and a media about kink. This is a great

1637
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:22,320
Speaker 4: example of a movie that absolutely needs an intimacy coordinator.

1638
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 4: Oh yeah. So this is from a Deadline article from

1639
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:28,719
Speaker 4: late December of last year called Baby Girl. Director praises

1640
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:33,560
Speaker 4: intimacy coordinators for achieving quote more extreme sex scenes unquote.

1641
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:36,800
Speaker 4: I just want to share a quote from the director

1642
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 4: from that. She says, I'm also against people who are

1643
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 4: saying no, my actors didn't want an intimacy coordinator. That

1644
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 4: makes no sense. It is also for your safety as

1645
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:50,360
Speaker 4: a director and for everyone what if there is a misunderstanding.

1646
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:53,599
Speaker 4: It's just amazing to have a person like that on set.

1647
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 4: And if you're creative and talented enough of a director,

1648
01:28:56,680 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 4: you can pull it off. Trust me, you just have

1649
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:01,880
Speaker 4: to go a little through your own discomfort and then

1650
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 4: you will discover a whole new world of creativity and possibilities.

1651
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:12,360
Speaker 4: I've only worked to work with an intimacy coordinator once,

1652
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 4: but I will say it makes a big difference. It

1653
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:23,040
Speaker 4: is very uncomfortable pretending to fuck a stranger and having

1654
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 4: someone there who is your person. I know that. Like

1655
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:30,799
Speaker 4: and again, I you know, whatever however an actor feels

1656
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:32,600
Speaker 4: is however they feel. I don't want to say that

1657
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 4: anyone is wrong for feeling one way or another. But

1658
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 4: I appreciated that the cast and crew of Baby Girl

1659
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:44,360
Speaker 4: very much came forward in favor of this being normalcy

1660
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:49,400
Speaker 4: in the Hollywood production, because I think that the risk

1661
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 4: outweighs the benefit very much in that situation.

1662
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 1: And that kind of reminds me of just like having

1663
01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:58,759
Speaker 1: a conversation about a weird sex thing before you do it,

1664
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 1: Like people will be like, oh, it's just hotter if

1665
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:05,560
Speaker 1: you just do it, and it's like, yes, sure maybe sometimes,

1666
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:09,120
Speaker 1: but it's it can be as hot with a conversation before,

1667
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:13,360
Speaker 1: and you have more potential to get more out of it,

1668
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:15,960
Speaker 1: and in the grand scheme of things, it's a better

1669
01:30:16,040 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 1: practice for sure.

1670
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:22,960
Speaker 4: So I do appreciate that ultimately, like knowing that the

1671
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:26,919
Speaker 4: crew of this movie was very much considering the safety

1672
01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 4: and comfort of their actors. That made me think higher

1673
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:33,719
Speaker 4: of the movie in general, honestly, because if this movie

1674
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,120
Speaker 4: had come out on the opposite side of that because

1675
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:39,559
Speaker 4: without getting to it, but like, you know, knowing that

1676
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 4: intimacy coordinators they were like, no, thanks for Anora, Maybe

1677
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 4: think less of that movie. Yeah yeah, And knowing that

1678
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 4: there were intimacy coordinators here made me think more of

1679
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:53,240
Speaker 4: this movie because I think that the clarification that I

1680
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:55,519
Speaker 4: haven't really seen made in the public eye is like

1681
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:58,760
Speaker 4: that an intimacy coordinator is not going to be like

1682
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:03,320
Speaker 4: you can't do that, At least in my experience. They're

1683
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:05,880
Speaker 4: just like, what are you comfortable doing? Where are your boundaries?

1684
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 4: And how can I help you perform around your boundaries.

1685
01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 4: They're not there to tell you do not do this

1686
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:15,640
Speaker 4: because it will look too horny on screen, or like

1687
01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:17,880
Speaker 4: they're not trying to make the scenes less hot. They're

1688
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 4: trying to manage your boundaries and your partner's boundaries while

1689
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 4: achieving the director's vision. And that is like a very

1690
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 4: important role because the director is doing fifteen different things.

1691
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:34,320
Speaker 4: It is very easy to lose the actor's comfort if you,

1692
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:37,639
Speaker 4: as an actor, are like, uh huh, I feel fine,

1693
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:40,439
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, because you don't want to slow things

1694
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 4: down because there's twenty people to hate you and you

1695
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:45,160
Speaker 4: want to put your bra back on you know, like,

1696
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:48,880
Speaker 4: so it is a very I don't know. I think

1697
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:53,519
Speaker 4: it's an important role to have available. If everyone chooses

1698
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 4: to forego it, that's another story again, like I don't

1699
01:31:56,479 --> 01:31:59,559
Speaker 4: I have We're not covering an aura. But I just

1700
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 4: am glad that the crew of this movie stood up

1701
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 4: for that role as normalcy on an erotic thriller set.

1702
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:08,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1703
01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:12,479
Speaker 3: Absolutely. The other thing that made me think higher of

1704
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 3: this movie is the final quote that I'll share from

1705
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:23,679
Speaker 3: director Helena Ryan Range recission we're not just too sure

1706
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:28,559
Speaker 3: about Dutch names, but it's hard. She did an interview

1707
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:35,560
Speaker 3: with friend of the cast Manuel Bettencourt the Academy Conversations,

1708
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:39,719
Speaker 3: and in this interview she says, quote, for me, making

1709
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 3: this movie is going into the areas of myself where

1710
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:46,200
Speaker 3: I feel incredible shame because I'm like, I'm a strong woman.

1711
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:48,960
Speaker 3: How is it then that I want a man to

1712
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:52,680
Speaker 3: be dominating me or protecting me? And so I think

1713
01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:55,880
Speaker 3: it's very liberating to create stories about it. She goes

1714
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:58,400
Speaker 3: on to say, as long as you do it in

1715
01:32:58,600 --> 01:33:02,720
Speaker 3: a safe space and you ask consent, there's nothing wrong

1716
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:05,679
Speaker 3: with it, then you should celebrate your kink. But this,

1717
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:09,640
Speaker 3: of course is happening because romy this being like the

1718
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:12,879
Speaker 3: plot of the movie, this is of course happening because

1719
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 3: Romy doesn't allow that to be there, and that's why

1720
01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:18,800
Speaker 3: it comes out with a much younger man in a

1721
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:23,400
Speaker 3: situation that is of course morally wrong unquote. So like

1722
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,320
Speaker 3: again she's acknowledging, like, the events of this movie are

1723
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:29,840
Speaker 3: not like, this is not what you should do. This

1724
01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 3: is not like a guidebook. This is what it looks

1725
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 3: like when you are suppressing your desires and you're not

1726
01:33:37,160 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 3: letting yourself fully explore them, and you're just sort of

1727
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:45,439
Speaker 3: like fumbling around with the first person who seems to

1728
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,919
Speaker 3: notice that you have these desires, and they're both handling

1729
01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:52,720
Speaker 3: it poorly. So I'm glad that, like the director acknowledges

1730
01:33:53,240 --> 01:33:55,680
Speaker 3: that because again I went into this first screening of

1731
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:59,720
Speaker 3: it being like, what was this takeaway here exactly like

1732
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:02,439
Speaker 3: what I supposed to be rooting for these people? Was

1733
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:05,320
Speaker 3: I supposed to be like a fan of their connection?

1734
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:10,280
Speaker 3: Because I was not. But yeah, I'm glad that now

1735
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:12,200
Speaker 3: that I have like a clearer understanding of the director

1736
01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:16,320
Speaker 3: and writers the writer director's vision, I'm like, Okay, then

1737
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:22,479
Speaker 3: you've achieved what you were going for then, so you know,

1738
01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:26,920
Speaker 3: I this is what I really want is it's just

1739
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 3: like you were speaking to em. More movies that do

1740
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:34,559
Speaker 3: show a healthy DOM sub BDSM dynamic in which the

1741
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:39,400
Speaker 3: conflict is coming from elsewhere and not like toxicity that

1742
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:42,360
Speaker 3: might be present in that dynamic.

1743
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 4: And preferably this is like, you know, the directors only

1744
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:50,400
Speaker 4: have so much control over this, but like preferably directed

1745
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:55,519
Speaker 4: to a younger audience, because there's only so much, you know,

1746
01:34:55,600 --> 01:34:57,880
Speaker 4: and a director who will only be granted and R

1747
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 4: rating can be held accountable for. It's hard because it's

1748
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:03,160
Speaker 4: like you don't know until the movie's done, and then

1749
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:06,599
Speaker 4: it's uh, you know, back and forth with studios and

1750
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:09,720
Speaker 4: back and forth with with programmers being like, Okay, what

1751
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:11,680
Speaker 4: needs to be taken out for this movie to be

1752
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:14,720
Speaker 4: deemed quote unquote appropriate, which is always gonna you know,

1753
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:19,840
Speaker 4: be attuned to what the sensibilities of the time are.

1754
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 4: And that makes me feel worried because the times are

1755
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:28,040
Speaker 4: not good. I felt a great.

1756
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:31,280
Speaker 1: I want to say that while I do think this

1757
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:36,559
Speaker 1: can be an accurate depiction of how people discover or

1758
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 1: like explore their kinks on a one on one basis

1759
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:44,519
Speaker 1: without knowing what they're doing, it is absolutely nothing like

1760
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 1: what the kink community looks like. Like at kink events,

1761
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:51,839
Speaker 1: they are not this glamorous. They are so nerdy.

1762
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:54,519
Speaker 4: They're not worrying beige and bad way.

1763
01:35:54,880 --> 01:35:57,599
Speaker 1: There's no beige. I've never seen beige at a kink

1764
01:35:57,640 --> 01:36:01,240
Speaker 1: party and it's not like you. I feel like a

1765
01:36:01,280 --> 01:36:03,840
Speaker 1: lot of this movie is about the actual sense of

1766
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:09,559
Speaker 1: danger and that's all manufactured at a BBSM party, and

1767
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:12,800
Speaker 1: they are like great lengths gone to to make sure

1768
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:17,320
Speaker 1: that everything is consensual. BDSM parties are really strict about

1769
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:21,120
Speaker 1: alcohol and drugs. Usually, like the Dungeon here in Chicago

1770
01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:22,920
Speaker 1: has a bar where you can go get a diet

1771
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:26,120
Speaker 1: coke because they don't want anyone being inebriated. They're usually

1772
01:36:26,200 --> 01:36:30,720
Speaker 1: dungeon monitors that are like checking up on things and

1773
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:33,599
Speaker 1: making sure everyone seems into what they're doing. There's there

1774
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:35,759
Speaker 1: will be like a safe word for the whole dungeon,

1775
01:36:36,360 --> 01:36:39,000
Speaker 1: so so everyone knows if something's going wrong.

1776
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:43,680
Speaker 3: That's great. Yeah. I upon watching this movie and like

1777
01:36:44,080 --> 01:36:47,639
Speaker 3: you know, the sex parties I've been to, wo we woo,

1778
01:36:48,479 --> 01:36:52,320
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, these these are not the same. Yeah, yeah,

1779
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:55,720
Speaker 3: this is not what this looks like. Yeah, was there

1780
01:36:55,760 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 3: anything else? Anyone wanted to talk about regarding a baby girl.

1781
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:03,400
Speaker 1: Another thing that was a big takeaway from me the

1782
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:07,840
Speaker 1: first time I saw it was when Samuel's like, I

1783
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:10,080
Speaker 1: could make one call and it would be over for you.

1784
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:12,920
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, That's not how it was for

1785
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:17,720
Speaker 1: me when I was having a secret relationship with my manager.

1786
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:21,960
Speaker 1: If I made one call, then it would everyone would

1787
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:25,400
Speaker 1: assume I was lying and I would get fired. Wonder

1788
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:26,760
Speaker 1: what the difference there is?

1789
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:29,320
Speaker 3: Does it have anything to do with gender?

1790
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:32,519
Speaker 4: Who could say, right, and the movie doesn't. That was

1791
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 4: something that I was like, I feel like the movie

1792
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:38,559
Speaker 4: should have maybe because if you gender swap, and again

1793
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:42,040
Speaker 4: it's like, we're over gender swapping, but this movie is

1794
01:37:42,120 --> 01:37:45,479
Speaker 4: gender swapping stuff we've seen in movies before. Yeah, it

1795
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:49,960
Speaker 4: does feel worth acknowledging that in saying this with like,

1796
01:37:50,080 --> 01:37:53,639
Speaker 4: you know, girl, Jeff Bezos, whatever, shell Gaslen Sandwich style.

1797
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:55,720
Speaker 4: If you haven't seen it, maybe we'll link to it

1798
01:37:55,760 --> 01:37:59,160
Speaker 4: in this episode on YouTube, you know. But like, just

1799
01:37:59,200 --> 01:38:02,519
Speaker 4: because evil is being done by a woman does not

1800
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:06,240
Speaker 4: make the consequences of it less severe. It does, however,

1801
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 4: make the tightrope of consequence for the person doing it

1802
01:38:09,960 --> 01:38:15,320
Speaker 4: more precarious. Again, I'm not quite sure why the director

1803
01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:22,639
Speaker 4: chose this tightrope to examine, but because she did choose

1804
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:26,520
Speaker 4: it to examine, it felt a little bit under explored,

1805
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:29,519
Speaker 4: because you're totally right, Emma, where it's like, if we

1806
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 4: did gender swap this and it is a young woman

1807
01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:37,440
Speaker 4: saying Jeff Bezos and I are in a BDSM relationship,

1808
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:41,519
Speaker 4: it does feel like it's it wouldn't go well for her,

1809
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 4: far easier to ignore, and that's not to say and

1810
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:47,719
Speaker 4: we never get to the point where we even ask

1811
01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:51,639
Speaker 4: what would happen if this happened, because this movie doesn't

1812
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 4: even go there because it is made. And that's a

1813
01:38:54,320 --> 01:38:57,120
Speaker 4: little bit of the problem I had with the Samuel

1814
01:38:57,200 --> 01:38:59,760
Speaker 4: character in general, where we know so little about him

1815
01:39:00,160 --> 01:39:03,400
Speaker 4: that he's a bit of a cipher, which in the

1816
01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 4: sex sense is useful.

1817
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:06,800
Speaker 1: It's kind of a manic pixie dream boy.

1818
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:10,920
Speaker 4: He kind of is, right. Okay, Okay, I'm glad you

1819
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:12,599
Speaker 4: said that, because I didn't write that down, but that

1820
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:14,360
Speaker 4: does sort of feel like what he is. Because we

1821
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:19,120
Speaker 4: know the bare minimum about Romy's background, but we do

1822
01:39:19,240 --> 01:39:22,360
Speaker 4: know a lot about her home life. Samuel, well, we

1823
01:39:22,479 --> 01:39:27,559
Speaker 4: know really nothing. We know that he gave a dog

1824
01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:31,400
Speaker 4: a cookie and that's all we know. Like and other

1825
01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:33,599
Speaker 4: than that, he is kind of a manic pixie dream

1826
01:39:33,680 --> 01:39:35,960
Speaker 4: boy where you know, if you buschemi test this thing,

1827
01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:41,280
Speaker 4: it doesn't work at all. But it takes a fair

1828
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:44,240
Speaker 4: amount of like vibing and movie magic to make this

1829
01:39:44,320 --> 01:39:47,200
Speaker 4: relationship even happen in the first place. And then he

1830
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:50,160
Speaker 4: sort of just literally walks into the mist and goes

1831
01:39:50,200 --> 01:39:55,800
Speaker 4: away and goes to Tokyo, and we don't really know how

1832
01:39:55,840 --> 01:39:59,600
Speaker 4: this relationship has affected him. The line from him that

1833
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:01,880
Speaker 4: affects to me the most that again I felt like,

1834
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:04,559
Speaker 4: didn't really go examined in the way that the movie

1835
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:08,520
Speaker 4: plays out, is that he's talking about how his relationship

1836
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:12,600
Speaker 4: with romy is different from the way that his relationship

1837
01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 4: with Esme is. I liked that exchange a lot, but

1838
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 4: it never comes back where he just is like, basically,

1839
01:40:19,960 --> 01:40:22,920
Speaker 4: he basically says the side of myself that I am

1840
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:25,760
Speaker 4: with Esme is different than the side of myself I

1841
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:28,840
Speaker 4: am with you, But he doesn't say that neither of

1842
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 4: those sides are invalid or not authentic. Yeah, he's just like,

1843
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:35,200
Speaker 4: you know, with you, I can explore a different part

1844
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:38,200
Speaker 4: of myself than I can with her, But it doesn't

1845
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:40,599
Speaker 4: you know. I was very prepared for him to say

1846
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:43,760
Speaker 4: I'm faking it with her. It's totally insincere, but he

1847
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:46,559
Speaker 4: doesn't say that he you know, and I thought that

1848
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:50,160
Speaker 4: that was like a very interesting sort of thing to

1849
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:53,840
Speaker 4: be dangled that isn't really explored because as May drops

1850
01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:57,320
Speaker 4: him to be Missus girl boss, right, so it's like

1851
01:40:57,640 --> 01:40:59,880
Speaker 4: that sort of goes away. I just I do wish

1852
01:41:00,160 --> 01:41:03,200
Speaker 4: that this story was a little bit I mean, it

1853
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:06,280
Speaker 4: lets go of because I think that this movie, the

1854
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:09,759
Speaker 4: way that it was celebrated was like it's it's women's pleasure,

1855
01:41:09,840 --> 01:41:13,519
Speaker 4: but it's like of Missus, Jeff Bezos, can't we do better?

1856
01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:17,520
Speaker 4: Can't we do better? Because it feels like the consequence

1857
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:21,120
Speaker 4: of that is that the younger characters go unexamined, and

1858
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 4: that also, I mean, we haven't really talked about Jacob

1859
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:29,679
Speaker 4: very much, where Jacob is a whole other animal. Where

1860
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:32,400
Speaker 4: I thought Antonio Banderas gave kind of like a great

1861
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:36,519
Speaker 4: understated or as I call it, Dakota Johnson's stepfather.

1862
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 3: Well as I call him puts in Boots the live action.

1863
01:41:40,360 --> 01:41:44,280
Speaker 4: Version The Man, But I thought he'd gave a great

1864
01:41:44,360 --> 01:41:48,160
Speaker 4: understated performance in this where he's and also his casting

1865
01:41:48,280 --> 01:41:51,240
Speaker 4: is like Nicole Kidman's it's so deliberate, where it's like

1866
01:41:51,680 --> 01:41:55,280
Speaker 4: you're culturally led to believe who would cheat on this man?

1867
01:41:55,760 --> 01:41:59,080
Speaker 4: But his performance bears that out where he is a

1868
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:02,559
Speaker 4: emotionally present husband, which is again a gender swap of

1869
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:05,960
Speaker 4: what we normally see in this situation. He is emotionally present,

1870
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:06,519
Speaker 4: she is not.

1871
01:42:06,800 --> 01:42:08,320
Speaker 3: She's always on her phone.

1872
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:12,160
Speaker 4: Right, which is trophy, Right, that is trophy. But I

1873
01:42:12,200 --> 01:42:16,160
Speaker 4: do think like saying an emotionally present husband and father

1874
01:42:16,479 --> 01:42:20,680
Speaker 4: versus not is somewhat unusual. But then seeing like you know,

1875
01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:24,240
Speaker 4: even that is not necessarily enough to sustain a marriage,

1876
01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:27,599
Speaker 4: I think that that is like a point to be made,

1877
01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:33,559
Speaker 4: and also that his frustration and his hurt is totally

1878
01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:37,599
Speaker 4: valid as well to be because she fucks him over

1879
01:42:37,680 --> 01:42:40,000
Speaker 4: big time. Because in his mind, and I can imagine

1880
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:42,479
Speaker 4: being in his position, he's like, what the fuck have

1881
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:45,919
Speaker 4: I done wrong? All I did was direct, had a gabbler,

1882
01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:49,080
Speaker 4: and love our daughters. And it's like the things he's

1883
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:53,920
Speaker 4: done wrong, he has not been culturally conditioned to examine.

1884
01:42:54,200 --> 01:42:58,800
Speaker 4: He has not been culturally conditioned to consider what his

1885
01:42:58,880 --> 01:43:02,680
Speaker 4: wife's pleasure should look like. You know, and like that

1886
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:05,200
Speaker 4: is a very unique thing that I think a lot

1887
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:09,720
Speaker 4: of men, and I'm sure of Antonio Banderaz's generation particularly,

1888
01:43:10,160 --> 01:43:13,799
Speaker 4: haven't been thought to consider. And women of Nicole Kidney's generation,

1889
01:43:13,840 --> 01:43:17,599
Speaker 4: who are you know, Basically our moms were not taught

1890
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:20,840
Speaker 4: to ask for right. So I do think it's like

1891
01:43:20,880 --> 01:43:23,280
Speaker 4: a useful example. But I just felt like the way

1892
01:43:23,320 --> 01:43:26,680
Speaker 4: that Jacob's character was presented kind of petered out at

1893
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:29,200
Speaker 4: the end where it was sort of presented like Jacob

1894
01:43:29,320 --> 01:43:33,599
Speaker 4: is the past, Samuel is the future, and then Samuel

1895
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:37,200
Speaker 4: just turns into mist and goes to your pin and

1896
01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:39,960
Speaker 4: You're like, well, I don't know, you know, there was

1897
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:41,920
Speaker 4: a little bit of gray area there, but I guess,

1898
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 4: you know, we just gotta make her come and roll

1899
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:45,280
Speaker 4: the credits.

1900
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:48,960
Speaker 1: I am so glad though that they specify what like

1901
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:51,920
Speaker 1: that Samuel didn't get fired. He wasn't like right, he

1902
01:43:52,240 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 1: didn't take any like real professional harm from his affair

1903
01:43:57,439 --> 01:44:00,280
Speaker 1: with the CEO, Like she transferred him to do a

1904
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:03,840
Speaker 1: really good job in Tokyo, So he was still on

1905
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:06,440
Speaker 1: his career path, if not a little bit more advanced,

1906
01:44:06,479 --> 01:44:07,719
Speaker 1: but also very.

1907
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:10,599
Speaker 4: Far away so far, which would that have happened if

1908
01:44:10,640 --> 01:44:16,960
Speaker 4: the gender was reversed that we know no, and also,

1909
01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:22,120
Speaker 4: I mean, unfortunately, would Esme's career have advanced if she

1910
01:44:22,240 --> 01:44:26,360
Speaker 4: hadn't made the move that she made. I don't think likely.

1911
01:44:26,520 --> 01:44:29,400
Speaker 4: I don't think so because the movie literally tells you

1912
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:33,320
Speaker 4: that wouldn't happen, because the way that Romy is a

1913
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:37,960
Speaker 4: hashtag feminist girl boss is inherently passive, and the movie

1914
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:40,759
Speaker 4: goes out of its way to tell you that because

1915
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:44,920
Speaker 4: she has to be put into personal peril before she

1916
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:49,760
Speaker 4: will talk to or seriously consider Esme's needs or her

1917
01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:53,920
Speaker 4: own daughter's needs, where it's not until she sees her

1918
01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:58,320
Speaker 4: daughter mirroring her own behavior to some extent that she

1919
01:44:58,479 --> 01:45:02,200
Speaker 4: even considers it valid like we're not she's not a

1920
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:07,000
Speaker 4: great mom. Like, but I also appreciated seeing not a

1921
01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:10,160
Speaker 4: great mom being approached by her teenage daughter and being like,

1922
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:13,280
Speaker 4: you're not doing great, but we could really use you back.

1923
01:45:13,320 --> 01:45:16,920
Speaker 4: I'm like visibility, we really we love that. We love

1924
01:45:16,960 --> 01:45:19,840
Speaker 4: that you weren't doing a great job, but you're better

1925
01:45:19,880 --> 01:45:24,280
Speaker 4: than nothing. Get home, you know, I get it. Yeah.

1926
01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:26,839
Speaker 3: I think it just comes down to this movie presents

1927
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:30,760
Speaker 3: a lot of complicated things, and I wish would have

1928
01:45:31,080 --> 01:45:35,680
Speaker 3: examined many of them more closely, or may maybe like

1929
01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:39,960
Speaker 3: a clear stance on them. But there's also lots of

1930
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:42,439
Speaker 3: upsides to what we see in the movie, especially as

1931
01:45:42,439 --> 01:45:46,800
Speaker 3: far as like representation of a woman's pleasure and orgasm

1932
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:49,800
Speaker 3: and sexuality in general. I think it was interesting to

1933
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:56,400
Speaker 3: see that of this couple between romy and Jacob, that

1934
01:45:56,800 --> 01:46:01,040
Speaker 3: the woman is the more sexually adventurous one and the

1935
01:46:01,120 --> 01:46:04,840
Speaker 3: man not so much. And it's it seems like the

1936
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:08,160
Speaker 3: movie to some degree implies that that's why she like strays,

1937
01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:13,639
Speaker 3: because she's like looking to find someone who will help

1938
01:46:13,680 --> 01:46:16,640
Speaker 3: her bust a nut and her husband can't do that

1939
01:46:16,920 --> 01:46:17,679
Speaker 3: for her.

1940
01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:21,200
Speaker 4: What I what I wish was more emphasize is that

1941
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:25,960
Speaker 4: it shouldn't be and this is a symptom of capitalism.

1942
01:46:26,200 --> 01:46:30,400
Speaker 4: It shouldn't be a symptom of if Nicole Kidman doesn't

1943
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:35,560
Speaker 4: bust a nut, people will die, which is the concept.

1944
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:40,519
Speaker 4: These are the existential sequences presented by this movie that

1945
01:46:40,560 --> 01:46:43,120
Speaker 4: the movie does not quite want to interact with.

1946
01:46:43,880 --> 01:46:46,479
Speaker 3: Right And you're also just reminded like, okay, well, if

1947
01:46:46,479 --> 01:46:49,320
Speaker 3: you want to bust a nut and you're already married

1948
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:53,479
Speaker 3: in a monogamous relationship, then you know, try to use

1949
01:46:53,520 --> 01:46:55,759
Speaker 3: your words a little bit better.

1950
01:46:56,240 --> 01:46:59,160
Speaker 4: But I mean that that is like easier said than dine.

1951
01:46:59,280 --> 01:47:03,240
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, we know our moms. It's easier said

1952
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:04,520
Speaker 4: than done. It's a motherfucker.

1953
01:47:04,640 --> 01:47:04,720
Speaker 1: Like.

1954
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:07,160
Speaker 4: I don't mean to like talk her character down too much.

1955
01:47:07,439 --> 01:47:10,519
Speaker 4: I just well, yeah, I guess to round up how

1956
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:13,559
Speaker 4: I feel about this movie, I think it is an

1957
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:19,320
Speaker 4: interesting step forward in this genre of movie, and I

1958
01:47:19,479 --> 01:47:22,680
Speaker 4: just sort of wish it had chosen a less challenging

1959
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:28,240
Speaker 4: extreme class dynamic to examine. And it's it's doing. It

1960
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:31,200
Speaker 4: passes the Bechtel test for what it's worth. It does

1961
01:47:31,240 --> 01:47:34,240
Speaker 4: indeed a lot, Yeah, a whole lot. But what does

1962
01:47:34,280 --> 01:47:37,640
Speaker 4: that mean? Does anyone else have closing comments before we

1963
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:39,520
Speaker 4: head into our ratings.

1964
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:43,799
Speaker 1: I thought that the wardrobe designer did a really incredible

1965
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:46,519
Speaker 1: job with this, just like the way that Samuel's suit

1966
01:47:46,600 --> 01:47:50,280
Speaker 1: never fits him right is so on point for his character.

1967
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:53,840
Speaker 1: And then also for most of the movie, especially for

1968
01:47:53,880 --> 01:47:56,280
Speaker 1: the first half, Romy is wearing a top or a

1969
01:47:56,360 --> 01:47:58,760
Speaker 1: dress that looks like it's choking her to death. She's

1970
01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:02,439
Speaker 1: like always wearing something that ties at the neck. And

1971
01:48:02,479 --> 01:48:08,240
Speaker 1: then as she gets more into her sexuality, you see

1972
01:48:08,280 --> 01:48:10,400
Speaker 1: her like at the scene with her and Samuel at

1973
01:48:10,439 --> 01:48:13,919
Speaker 1: the hotel, she's wearing a strapless dress. At the rave scene,

1974
01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:16,360
Speaker 1: she goes in wearing a top that's like tied at

1975
01:48:16,400 --> 01:48:18,360
Speaker 1: the top and he helps her untie it and take

1976
01:48:18,400 --> 01:48:18,760
Speaker 1: it off.

1977
01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:21,760
Speaker 4: Right. Oh yeah, we'll spot it.

1978
01:48:21,880 --> 01:48:22,040
Speaker 2: Well.

1979
01:48:22,640 --> 01:48:24,760
Speaker 4: I was just like, wow, it's hard for me to

1980
01:48:24,760 --> 01:48:28,760
Speaker 4: get past, like Nicole Kippen looks awesome. Yeah, you're so right,

1981
01:48:28,800 --> 01:48:29,439
Speaker 4: You're so right.

1982
01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:32,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, we should maybe wrap up because I could

1983
01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:34,240
Speaker 1: talk about this movie for three more hours.

1984
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:36,400
Speaker 3: So I know, I feel like, I mean, there's it's

1985
01:48:36,439 --> 01:48:39,360
Speaker 3: so it's such a rich text. There's so much to examine.

1986
01:48:39,400 --> 01:48:42,480
Speaker 3: I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface.

1987
01:48:42,160 --> 01:48:44,719
Speaker 4: Truly, but we've we've almost gone the length of the text.

1988
01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:48,559
Speaker 4: So that is our natural conclusion classic us.

1989
01:48:48,680 --> 01:48:51,599
Speaker 3: But yeah, I guess that brings us to our nipple scale,

1990
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:56,160
Speaker 3: where we rate the movie based on examining it through

1991
01:48:56,200 --> 01:48:59,840
Speaker 3: an intersectional feminist lens. Ooh, this one is a tricky

1992
01:48:59,840 --> 01:49:04,240
Speaker 3: one and this movie really challenged me. You know, there's

1993
01:49:04,360 --> 01:49:07,400
Speaker 3: things I really like about what we see on screen,

1994
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:13,479
Speaker 3: especially as far as, like again, representation of a woman's pleasure.

1995
01:49:14,120 --> 01:49:20,160
Speaker 3: But it's like, to your point, Jamie. Why is it

1996
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:24,640
Speaker 3: missus Amazon dot Com? Because that's an impossible character to

1997
01:49:24,760 --> 01:49:28,720
Speaker 3: root for. I really struggled with that. There's just there's

1998
01:49:28,760 --> 01:49:31,920
Speaker 3: lots of stuff that kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

1999
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:34,400
Speaker 3: But again, now that I know more about where the

2000
01:49:34,439 --> 01:49:39,000
Speaker 3: director was coming from, I appreciate it more. But I

2001
01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:44,640
Speaker 3: feel like I'm still only gonna give it three nibles.

2002
01:49:44,880 --> 01:49:48,280
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'll stick with three. One goes to

2003
01:49:48,320 --> 01:49:53,679
Speaker 3: the glass of milk, one goes to the necktie that

2004
01:49:54,479 --> 01:49:59,080
Speaker 3: Romy performs oral sex on, and my final nibowl goes

2005
01:49:59,120 --> 01:50:03,120
Speaker 3: to her again guttural orgasm sound.

2006
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:08,800
Speaker 4: Amazing, wow, really good, really good, thank you, thank you.

2007
01:50:09,840 --> 01:50:13,080
Speaker 4: I'm bravely going to forego nipples on this because I

2008
01:50:13,200 --> 01:50:17,280
Speaker 4: just don't feel well informed enough to give my full

2009
01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:21,360
Speaker 4: nipple reading here. I will say this, this movie challenged

2010
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:23,839
Speaker 4: me to the extent that I don't feel comfortable giving nipples.

2011
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:29,879
Speaker 4: My main criticism of this movie is that it chose

2012
01:50:30,000 --> 01:50:35,040
Speaker 4: intentionally to choose the highest possible steaks for this situation,

2013
01:50:35,280 --> 01:50:37,920
Speaker 4: which made it harder for me to engage with it,

2014
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:44,320
Speaker 4: and also weirdly more like fan fiction y of like

2015
01:50:44,840 --> 01:50:49,960
Speaker 4: what if Jeff Bezos fucked you? Like it really does

2016
01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:52,599
Speaker 4: feel kind of like more fan fiction y. I wish

2017
01:50:52,640 --> 01:50:55,840
Speaker 4: this took place in a more grounded environment. I don't

2018
01:50:55,840 --> 01:50:57,920
Speaker 4: think that you would have lost the steaks, and I

2019
01:50:57,920 --> 01:51:00,920
Speaker 4: think you actually would have gained a lot of ability

2020
01:51:00,960 --> 01:51:03,840
Speaker 4: to engage with the story that I didn't feel the

2021
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 4: ability to engage with because you're like, well, I would

2022
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:10,720
Speaker 4: never do it, missus Jeff Bezos does. But if you

2023
01:51:10,800 --> 01:51:13,840
Speaker 4: put it in the you know, like stakes of your

2024
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:17,720
Speaker 4: mom's most successful friend, maybe you could put yourself in

2025
01:51:17,720 --> 01:51:20,280
Speaker 4: that situation. I just I don't know. I mean, I

2026
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:26,280
Speaker 4: would be curious what the director's motivation was to it

2027
01:51:26,360 --> 01:51:27,920
Speaker 4: just felt like it was trying to do a little

2028
01:51:27,960 --> 01:51:28,479
Speaker 4: bit too much.

2029
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:28,760
Speaker 3: For me.

2030
01:51:29,960 --> 01:51:32,840
Speaker 4: I'm gonna forego my nipples at this point. I also

2031
01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:36,559
Speaker 4: I'm gonna for the things that we didn't have time

2032
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:38,559
Speaker 4: to talk about. I just wanted to link to sort

2033
01:51:38,600 --> 01:51:43,080
Speaker 4: of differing opinions that I both value very much from

2034
01:51:43,320 --> 01:51:46,840
Speaker 4: past guests of this show. Angelica Jade Bastien wrote a

2035
01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:50,160
Speaker 4: great piece about this in Vulture, and Jordaanine Seerles wrote

2036
01:51:50,200 --> 01:51:52,519
Speaker 4: a great piece about this in the La Review of Books.

2037
01:51:52,600 --> 01:51:55,760
Speaker 4: So I will defer to you to them Jordaane was

2038
01:51:55,800 --> 01:51:59,840
Speaker 4: a big fan Angelica Lesso, and I feel like I

2039
01:51:59,880 --> 01:52:01,640
Speaker 4: just need a little more time with this one. I

2040
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:04,439
Speaker 4: don't know. If I had nipples to give, I would

2041
01:52:04,479 --> 01:52:10,560
Speaker 4: give them all to the pool that steams in January's

2042
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:15,519
Speaker 4: pretty greatfool. The pool of infidelity, Yes, right, the cheating

2043
01:52:15,680 --> 01:52:17,880
Speaker 4: on your spouse pool. I love that.

2044
01:52:18,720 --> 01:52:21,080
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, how about you? Right?

2045
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:22,880
Speaker 1: This one is so hard because I feel like all

2046
01:52:22,920 --> 01:52:27,240
Speaker 1: of the positive things about it are so positive to me,

2047
01:52:27,439 --> 01:52:30,120
Speaker 1: and then all of the negative things are so negative.

2048
01:52:30,320 --> 01:52:32,760
Speaker 1: It's just really extremes.

2049
01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:36,080
Speaker 3: And that's when we do a two point five nipple,

2050
01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:37,679
Speaker 3: we just split down the middle.

2051
01:52:38,800 --> 01:52:41,559
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it a three point five, and I'm

2052
01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:45,040
Speaker 1: going to give all of those nipples, not specifically to

2053
01:52:45,160 --> 01:52:48,439
Speaker 1: the scene where Harris Dickinson is dancing with his shirt

2054
01:52:48,479 --> 01:52:51,200
Speaker 1: off and his fuck boy tattoos, but to the directorial

2055
01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:53,800
Speaker 1: choice to have that scene happen to the George Michael

2056
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:56,360
Speaker 1: song father figure. That was a choice.

2057
01:52:56,520 --> 01:53:01,000
Speaker 4: Oh my god, yes she was. They're like, okay, she is, Daddy.

2058
01:53:01,320 --> 01:53:04,920
Speaker 4: Now You're like, okay, I get it, I get it.

2059
01:53:05,760 --> 01:53:06,960
Speaker 4: Maybe daddy. Wow.

2060
01:53:07,000 --> 01:53:09,400
Speaker 1: Also, those are all his real tattoos.

2061
01:53:09,720 --> 01:53:11,720
Speaker 3: Oh, I was wondering I meant to look that up.

2062
01:53:11,800 --> 01:53:13,559
Speaker 3: I was like, I wonder if there's like shirtless photos

2063
01:53:13,600 --> 01:53:13,880
Speaker 3: of him.

2064
01:53:14,479 --> 01:53:16,040
Speaker 1: I came out of the first of you and being like, man,

2065
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:18,480
Speaker 1: they did such a good job with the fake tattoos.

2066
01:53:18,479 --> 01:53:21,400
Speaker 1: They're such fuck boy tattoos and they're all real.

2067
01:53:22,280 --> 01:53:25,720
Speaker 4: That makes be so good for you, Harris. Good for

2068
01:53:25,840 --> 01:53:29,679
Speaker 4: you for living your truth. You've lived a real human life.

2069
01:53:29,800 --> 01:53:31,840
Speaker 4: If you have tattoos that embarrassing.

2070
01:53:32,120 --> 01:53:32,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2071
01:53:33,240 --> 01:53:33,479
Speaker 2: Yes.

2072
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:38,400
Speaker 3: The final thing I'll say is that if this movie exists, Emma,

2073
01:53:38,439 --> 01:53:41,280
Speaker 3: if you know, let me know, or if listeners know.

2074
01:53:42,120 --> 01:53:47,160
Speaker 3: But I want to watch a movie about like a femdom,

2075
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:50,800
Speaker 3: like the woman being the dominant person in that dynamic

2076
01:53:51,560 --> 01:53:56,240
Speaker 3: with a submissive man, because I mean, we've talked exclusively

2077
01:53:56,280 --> 01:53:59,800
Speaker 3: about hetero couplings on this episode. I mean there is

2078
01:53:59,840 --> 01:54:03,320
Speaker 3: the Isabelle character, who, you know, the teen daughter who

2079
01:54:03,439 --> 01:54:07,439
Speaker 3: dates other teen girls. But in the context of like

2080
01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:10,320
Speaker 3: the dom sub dynamics that we've discussed on this episode,

2081
01:54:10,320 --> 01:54:14,280
Speaker 3: it's all been hetero things. But I'd also like to

2082
01:54:14,280 --> 01:54:16,960
Speaker 3: see a movie about a dom sub dynamic present within

2083
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:20,280
Speaker 3: a queer relationship because when a mainstream movie comes out

2084
01:54:20,320 --> 01:54:24,040
Speaker 3: that is about BDSM I feel like it's always the dom.

2085
01:54:24,080 --> 01:54:27,280
Speaker 3: It's a sishead man, the sub is a sishead woman,

2086
01:54:27,880 --> 01:54:30,960
Speaker 3: and that's just the pattern we see over and over.

2087
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 4: We should just do it a month on the Bexel

2088
01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:38,040
Speaker 4: cast of like s tier narrative porn. Honestly, like we've

2089
01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:41,360
Speaker 4: been on the air long enough, we should it's time I.

2090
01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:47,800
Speaker 3: Own on DVD brag the porn movie Pirates, which is

2091
01:54:48,120 --> 01:54:52,200
Speaker 3: a porn parody of Pirates of the Caribbean. Oh and

2092
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:55,440
Speaker 3: there's okay, yeah, I have it and we can watch it.

2093
01:54:56,280 --> 01:54:59,640
Speaker 3: There's also a sequel which I've seen. And then for

2094
01:54:59,640 --> 01:55:05,800
Speaker 3: a time both movies, both porn films, were on Netflix,

2095
01:55:05,880 --> 01:55:08,800
Speaker 3: but the sex scenes were cut out, so it was

2096
01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:13,000
Speaker 3: just the like Pirate story rocks.

2097
01:55:13,440 --> 01:55:15,680
Speaker 4: That's like kill Bill on TNT.

2098
01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:20,800
Speaker 3: That is amazing, Yeah, because like there's story, there's like

2099
01:55:20,800 --> 01:55:23,440
Speaker 3: a whole plot, sure, and then like they take a

2100
01:55:24,080 --> 01:55:26,920
Speaker 3: you know, a little like narrative break from the plot

2101
01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:28,680
Speaker 3: to have a sex scene and then they just go

2102
01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:31,640
Speaker 3: back into the plot. So like it kind of works

2103
01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:34,240
Speaker 3: without the sex scenes. It's also like one of the

2104
01:55:34,320 --> 01:55:35,720
Speaker 3: highest budget porns ever made.

2105
01:55:35,840 --> 01:55:38,320
Speaker 4: Like okay, well, yeah, I'll come over to watch the DVD.

2106
01:55:38,400 --> 01:55:41,560
Speaker 4: I'm not interested in the non sex version. We're gonna

2107
01:55:43,000 --> 01:55:47,480
Speaker 4: well cool, Emma, Thank you so much for on that note.

2108
01:55:48,240 --> 01:55:49,960
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for

2109
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:52,520
Speaker 4: bringing us this very complet I wish we had like

2110
01:55:52,600 --> 01:55:54,240
Speaker 4: three more hours to talk about it. I feel like

2111
01:55:54,240 --> 01:55:55,960
Speaker 4: I could talk about it all day. Thank you so

2112
01:55:56,040 --> 01:55:59,320
Speaker 4: much for coming, coming on and coming to talk about this.

2113
01:55:59,400 --> 01:56:02,360
Speaker 4: Tell us more about where we can find you online.

2114
01:56:02,600 --> 01:56:06,440
Speaker 1: You can find my website at Emmaalimo dot com. You

2115
01:56:06,440 --> 01:56:10,320
Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram at Emma underscore Alamo. I

2116
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:13,120
Speaker 1: am frequently very shadow band, so you might have to

2117
01:56:13,320 --> 01:56:15,480
Speaker 1: type in the whole name for me to pop up.

2118
01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:20,680
Speaker 3: While worth it and listeners, check out Emma's online store

2119
01:56:21,280 --> 01:56:22,640
Speaker 3: and buy some dang.

2120
01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:24,600
Speaker 1: Harnesses, buy some dang sex harnesses.

2121
01:56:24,840 --> 01:56:28,480
Speaker 4: Look, I'm mine's give it a whirl. I can recommend

2122
01:56:28,560 --> 01:56:32,720
Speaker 4: and I'm so boring and it'll make your life interesting.

2123
01:56:33,200 --> 01:56:36,240
Speaker 3: Vanilla does not equal boring. This is a crusade that

2124
01:56:36,320 --> 01:56:37,480
Speaker 3: I've been on for years.

2125
01:56:37,560 --> 01:56:42,280
Speaker 1: Truly, I'm on that crusade too, Like vanilla is delicious

2126
01:56:42,840 --> 01:56:43,160
Speaker 1: and a.

2127
01:56:43,120 --> 01:56:46,400
Speaker 4: Lot of the best classic for reasons, and also.

2128
01:56:46,320 --> 01:56:48,880
Speaker 1: A lot of the best ice creams have an element

2129
01:56:48,920 --> 01:56:51,240
Speaker 1: of vanilla. In them. It'll be like vanilla ice cream

2130
01:56:51,360 --> 01:56:54,760
Speaker 1: with cookie dough. Like vanilla is not bad. Vanilla is

2131
01:56:54,840 --> 01:56:56,160
Speaker 1: just one of many options.

2132
01:56:56,240 --> 01:57:01,560
Speaker 4: It's a great thing to add other things to Bye

2133
01:57:01,960 --> 01:57:05,320
Speaker 4: M's version. Dice you can find You can find us

2134
01:57:05,320 --> 01:57:07,960
Speaker 4: online all over the place. You can join our patreon

2135
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Speaker 4: ak Matreon for five dollars a month, where every month

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Speaker 4: we do two bonus episodes just Caitlin and myself on

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Speaker 4: a ridiculous theme that you often choose. We just covered

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Speaker 4: roadent Tober for March, which was Ratitude and the Great

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Speaker 4: Moss Detective. A lot of important feminist discussion going on

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Speaker 4: over there.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yes, thank you for listening. Emma, come back anytime.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll come back to do that pirate porn with

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Speaker 1: Y'allieve I would I would love to cover some sort

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Speaker 1: of classic porn movies on this show.

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Speaker 3: W does Dallas deep Throat exactly, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm here for it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, bye bye, right bye. The Bechdel Cast is a

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Speaker 3: production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 3: produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Moe labord Our. Theme

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Speaker 3: song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski.

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Speaker 3: Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and

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Speaker 3: a special thanks to Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about

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Speaker 3: the podcast, please visit Linktree slash Bechtelcast