1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots podcast. 3 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 3: I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Alloway. 4 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 2: So, Tracy, we're here in Alaska. We're still here in Alaska. 5 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 4: We are. 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 3: It's beautiful, stunner, and it's bright. It stays light until 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 3: like eleven ps. 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 4: So bright. 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. It's amazing Alaska and August it's 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: the best. It's already such a fascinating place to me. 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 3: What iconic industries will we be talking about while we're 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 3: in Alaska, Joe. 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,319 Speaker 2: Well, there's many industries that we've hit over and over. 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 2: Obviously we like to talk to people in the trucking 15 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 2: industry for all kinds of reasons. But also, like, one 16 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 2: of the things that I'm aware of is that Alaska 17 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: has its own distinct trucking culture. I think there was 18 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: a reality TV show about it, right, Ice Road Trucker, 19 00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah, wasn't that based here? 20 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 3: Yes, I have questions about how realistic that actually is, 21 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 3: but you are absolutely right that trucking in Alaska is 22 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 3: the sort of well known thing, maybe because of the 23 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 3: reality TV show, But when you think about trucking in Alaska. 24 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 3: You think like these crazy like mud riddled roads and 25 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 3: people having to kart these like huge payloads of I 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 3: don't know. I heard it was mostly dirt in the 27 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: summertime because people are doing a lot of road construction. 28 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 3: But I don't know that much about it. 29 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: I don't know that much about it. Trucking is a 30 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: fun topic to cover a because it's just an interesting 31 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 2: logistical industry in any environment. And then B I don't 32 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: think anyone has a better pulse on the economy at 33 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: any given moment than people in trucking. So while we're 34 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: here in Alaska, for all these obvious reasons, we got 35 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: to talk trucking. 36 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 3: I think you have to come clean, Joe and admit 37 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 3: your secret dream to become an owner operator working in Alaska. 38 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: I don't even know if that's possible. 39 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: Well let's find out. I'm really excited to say we 40 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: really do have the perfect guest. We're going to be 41 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: speaking with, Josh norm He is the president and owner 42 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: of Sourdough Express. Josh, thank you so much for coming 43 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: on the podcast. 44 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me. 45 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: What is Sourdough Express mean and what is. 46 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 5: The company so Sourdough Express is a trucking company in Alaska. 47 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 5: All of our assets are based in Alaska. My family 48 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 5: bought it in the nineteen twenties. It's been in existing 49 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 5: since eighteen ninety eight, so or celebrating one hundred and 50 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 5: twenty seven years this year. We are a all service 51 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 5: trucking company. So we were in the Hall Road, the 52 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 5: ice Roads up. 53 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 4: In prude O Bay. 54 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 5: We haul between Anchorage and Fairbanks, which are the two 55 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 5: main population centers in Alaska. We also in a moving 56 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 5: and storage company that focuses on DoD military members moving 57 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 5: in and out of Alaska's military basis. 58 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: What does Sourdough actually mean in those contexts? Because I 59 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 3: hear Sourdough Express and I think, are you, like, you know, 60 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 3: driving around huge, huge loads of baked goods. 61 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, most people think that we're a bakery, but no, 62 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 5: Sourdough is a basically a long term Alaska So somebody 63 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 5: who's been here for many years or experienced winters here 64 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 5: and really understand the culture of Alaska and I understand 65 00:02:58,600 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 5: what it takes. 66 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:00,079 Speaker 2: To live here. 67 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 3: Just one more question before we dig into the now. 68 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 3: But you said your family bought this company in the 69 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 3: nineteen twenties, and it's existed into the late eighteen hundreds. 70 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: What was it actually in the early nineteen hundreds, because 71 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 3: I assume you weren't you know, it wasn't big trucks 72 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 3: back then. 73 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 74 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 5: So most of the freight coming into Alaska then was 75 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 5: gold mining and they were coming from Dawson City. And 76 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 5: so the owner, Bob Ellis, ended up coming into Alaska 77 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 5: and establishing in Fairbanks. And my family was working in 78 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 5: and out of the company through that time and ended 79 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 5: up purchasing it in nineteen twenty three. And the first 80 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 5: years was not trucks. It was dog sleds and sleds 81 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 5: and I mean with users and walking the trails with 82 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 5: the freight. And by the nineteen twenties, the pitchers show 83 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 5: that there are trucks and makeshift roads that they're traveling on, 84 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 5: but most of it was not far. It was makeshift 85 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 5: trails that they were getting where they needed to go 86 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 5: to their mining claims. And then as the community established 87 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 5: in Fairbanks, we continued to grow and moved heavily into 88 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 5: heating fuel and the different supplies that people need to. 89 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 4: Live in that climate. 90 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: I already want to do this for like three hours. 91 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 2: There's right, like we could just like, let's just talk. 92 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 3: Let's just start in nineteen twenty exactly. 93 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: Let's just go a decade by decade for the history. 94 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: I'm already fascinated, all right, but let's just take it 95 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: up to today. What are the main goods that you move, 96 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: whether it's industrial, whatever it is, what are the main 97 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: things that are moved in what are like the big routes. 98 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 5: So seventy percent of our freight is oil field related, 99 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 5: and it's going up to Prude Bay, and generally it's 100 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 5: coming into the Port of Anchorage and traveling up the 101 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 5: road through Fairbanks to. 102 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 4: Prude O Bay. 103 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 5: A lot of it runs on the rail from Seattle 104 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 5: area Tacoma up through the waterways to Alaska, and then 105 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 5: from there they rail at the Fairbanks and we pick 106 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 5: it up there and continue the journey to Prudo. We 107 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 5: do a lot of stuff down south to the Kenai 108 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 5: and basically anywhere on the road system that needs freight, 109 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 5: our trucks will travel. We do not leave Alaska because 110 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 5: we feel that our assets are best used here for 111 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 5: the freight that's local. So most of our freight that 112 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 5: comes from outside is coming on the steamships that come 113 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 5: into Alaska four times a week. 114 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 3: If I'm a customer, I mean, obviously this will vary 115 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 3: by customer, But what are the decisions I'm making or 116 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: what are the constraints when I'm deciding whether to send 117 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: something by road by rail versus a ferry. 118 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 5: So there's generally three options that people look at. One 119 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 5: is over the road up the Alcan Highway through Canada, 120 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 5: and that one is generally the quickest because you can 121 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 5: have a driver ticket from point A to point B, 122 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 5: do the checkpoints, and make it into Alaska the quickest. 123 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 5: The second fastest is steamship, and so there's two companies 124 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 5: that run two boats each and they go from Tacoma 125 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 5: to Anchorage twice a week, and both of them are 126 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,119 Speaker 5: sailing on Sundays and Tuesdays into Alaska. So I always 127 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 5: tell people that if you want to get fresh groceries, 128 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 5: go after the boats come, because that's when everything shows up. 129 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 5: There's also barge, which that travels more on a set schedule, 130 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 5: and there's a few different barge companies in Alaska, and 131 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 5: that's slower, but it's generally more economical to ship. So 132 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 5: there's different options. 133 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: Ship from Tacoma to Alaska. How long does that take? 134 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 4: Three days? 135 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: Okay, you know you said all your assets stay in Alaska? 136 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 2: Like how long are these routes? How long are the 137 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: drivers on the road? Like talk to us about like 138 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: those routes that they do, and how tough that is. 139 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 5: So as groeling as the roads are in Alaska, the 140 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 5: truckers actually have a pretty decent schedule compared to Lower 141 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 5: forty eight truckers. All the routes can pretty much be 142 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 5: a two day route no matter which way you go. 143 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 5: So the ones going from Fairbanks to prude O Bay, 144 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 5: those ones generally leave Fairbanks on a Monday, they go 145 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 5: to prude Obay, they deliver their load, spend the night, 146 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,559 Speaker 5: and then come back on a Tuesday. So they're getting 147 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 5: home every other night doing that route. 148 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: That is better than a lot of drivers in the 149 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: lower forty eight. 150 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, and most of them have done Lower forty eight 151 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 5: freight and love that they're home that consistently. The other 152 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 5: routes are generally anchoraged to Fairbanks, Fairbanks to Anchorage, and 153 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 5: those ones you can do round trip in a night, 154 00:06:58,360 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 5: so those guys are home almost every night. 155 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 3: Are there special skills you need to be a trucker 156 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: in Alaska versus elsewhere or in the Lower forty eight, 157 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 3: do I have to be really really good at taking 158 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: chains on and off my tires? 159 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 5: You definitely chain up consistently in Alaska. The thing that 160 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 5: we look for the most in our drivers is teachability. 161 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 4: Drivers that are. 162 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 5: Willing to learn and learn from the people who've been 163 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 5: doing it for years and years. There's a lot of 164 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 5: things that they teach you in truck driving school and 165 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 5: down in Lower forty eight that technically is the correct 166 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 5: way to do something, but in the situations they're in, 167 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 5: it can cause issues that you can't recover from. So 168 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 5: there's a lot of small technical. 169 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: Give us some examples. What are some things that people 170 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: encounter here that they don't encounter elsewhere. 171 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 5: Sure, one of the big things is running for hills. 172 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 5: A lot of times in the States people they'll run 173 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 5: and get speed up for hills. But in Prudo on 174 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 5: the road there it's almost critical that you run for hills. 175 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: And what does that mean? 176 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: You have to speed up, speed up to. 177 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 5: Get over the hill, so you know you're coming up 178 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 5: on a hill and everyone has call outs, so everyone 179 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 5: has rados in their truck and they're calling out truck 180 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 5: whatever's coming up the hill, and so everyone waits at 181 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 5: the top and basically you just get speed and then 182 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 5: your momentum carries you as far as you can before 183 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 5: you start downshifting. And it's critical in the winter time 184 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 5: because if you start slow, you will never gain traction, 185 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 5: so you will be stopping and chaining at every single hill. 186 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 5: Where there's generally a few hills you chain consistently. If 187 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 5: you run at them, you can usually momentum up and 188 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 5: over a lot of them without having to do that, 189 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 5: so it saves a significant amount of time and energy 190 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 5: for the driver. Having to get out and chaining up 191 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 5: on that road is not a fun experience. Generally it's 192 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 5: twenty thirty below and once you get up further north, 193 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 5: it's windy and it's dark. It's not a pleasant experience. 194 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 5: So any tricks like that that you can incorporate really 195 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 5: help their time and their quality of life. 196 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 3: You mentioned the radio just then, and this was going 197 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: to be one of my questions, which is like, are 198 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 3: people able to use the radio out here, and are 199 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 3: they on like Citizens Band or something else. 200 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 5: On Cbee radios anywhere and they have channels that they 201 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 5: run on. A lot of trucks have we call them 202 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 5: the big radio, which goes further and they can it's 203 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 5: usually like more of a chatting station. But on the 204 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 5: CBS there are a. 205 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 3: Lot of chatting. Just because you're in Alaska and you're 206 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: sort of on your own on a big highway or something. 207 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 5: There's a lot of chatting. But everyone knows each other, 208 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 5: so generally on that road, if you go up in 209 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 5: one day and you come back in the day, you're 210 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 5: passing all your friends either way at some point, so 211 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 5: they all know each other by their truck, what they 212 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 5: look like, they can tell on the radio. So a 213 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 5: lot of it's just them checking with each other. How's 214 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 5: your trip going, beautiful day? Man, that hill was icye? 215 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 4: Whatever it is? Hey, there's caribou ahead. 216 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 5: A lot of it's just banter back and forth between 217 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 5: friends on the radio that help each other out. The 218 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 5: hall road is very special in the sense that if 219 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 5: a truck is pulled over and has an issue, everybody's 220 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 5: going to stop. Nobody's going to drive by and without 221 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 5: checking to make sure he's doing okay and that he 222 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 5: doesn't need help. So that's a pretty special thing that 223 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 5: you don't see everywhere. I know there's some places that 224 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 5: people will stop and help, but in Alaska it's almost 225 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 5: critical that you do because somebody could be in trouble. 226 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 2: So someone told me that, like, used cars are more 227 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 2: expensive in Alaska. I don't know if that's true. Actually, 228 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: I haven't gone to verify that, but I'm just curious 229 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 2: about like the cost of like the physical yeah, your 230 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 2: physical assets, Like is there a significant price gap between 231 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: just what you pay for any sort of equipment, whether 232 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: it's the truck or some part or et cetera, in 233 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: Alaska versus the rest of the country. 234 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 5: Sometimes it's hard to compare because we don't have a 235 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 5: sales tax. Oh so without a sales tax, a lot 236 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 5: of times it reduces the price right back to where 237 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 5: the cost of getting the goods here is offset by 238 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 5: not having that sales tax. So I can honestly say 239 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 5: that I've not noticed a huge difference in prices between food, 240 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 5: used cars. A lot of the stuff that we ship 241 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 5: up business wise, like big trucks, and that we are 242 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 5: dealing with the shipping ourselves, So depending how we want 243 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 5: to drive it or what we want to do with that, 244 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 5: we're paying the cost at manufacture and hauling it up. 245 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 3: What about fuel costs, because I guess there's two things. 246 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 3: There's the price of fuel out here, and I know 247 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: there's a big oil industry, but I don't know if 248 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 3: you actually refine that much, so I don't know what 249 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: gas prices actually look like. But then secondly, I imagine 250 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 3: when you're out in you know, middle of nowhere Alaska, 251 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 3: there probably aren't that many places to have fuel stops 252 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 3: for and I guess maybe you have to be more 253 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 3: strategic about where you're stopping to refuel. 254 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, so I would say fuel is definitely more expensive 255 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 5: than say in Texas or the place where they have 256 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 5: big refineries. We do refine some fuel in Alaska, not 257 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 5: a lot. We have the pipeline going right through the 258 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 5: middle and a lot of it just goes south and gone, 259 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 5: but they do refine some. I don't think we save 260 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 5: on price by doing that. It's just more of an 261 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 5: efficiency thing. Fuel stops are extremely important. So our big 262 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 5: trucks that go to Prude Bay have three hundred gallon 263 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 5: tanks on them and there's only one gas station between 264 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 5: leaving Fairbanks and Prude Bay, which is almost five undred miles. 265 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 3: Wow. 266 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: So generally you don't want to run out of field. 267 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 5: You don't want to run at a field. There's not 268 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 5: a lot of a lot of options. And people are 269 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 5: used to driving in the country and they see farms 270 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 5: and they see, okay, there's a truck stop. And when 271 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 5: you leave these communities like Fairbanks and you go north, 272 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 5: there's nothing. It's just woods and there's no one to 273 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 5: help accept the other truckers on the road. You'll see 274 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 5: the tourists and the hunters, but there's nowhere to stop. 275 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 4: So drivers when they. 276 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 5: Pull over there stopping on the side of like a 277 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 5: pull off, just a little spot to stop. But there's 278 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 5: no bathrooms or showers or anything like that. So planning 279 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 5: your trips and where you get feel you can get 280 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 5: feeling prudo. But it's more than double the cost of 281 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 5: fuel in Fairbanks, so you definitely plan your field and 282 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 5: carry a lot of it. 283 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 2: So we're recording this August fifth, twenty twenty five. How's 284 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: business right now or how does it compare to August fifth, 285 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. 286 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 5: Business has been very good and very steady. A few 287 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 5: of the different oil companies in Alaska have put a 288 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 5: lot of investment and a lot of that's on the 289 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 5: future and investment. 290 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris Wright, the Energy Secretary was I think in 291 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: Alaska not too long ago, like Telly and. 292 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 5: We had a big delegation come up here and you 293 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 5: went to Pruto to pumping the gas line up, the 294 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 5: potential gas line that they're trying to get approved. But 295 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 5: the overall investment in the oil fields and the downstream 296 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 5: effects of that of people coming up to work those 297 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 5: and the good jobs it creates, that then trickles through 298 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 5: the rest of the economy. So a lot of our 299 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 5: business is also groceries and lumber and housing supplies and 300 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 5: basically anything that a worker on the slope that we 301 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 5: also provide drilling pipe two. They still need everything back 302 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 5: at their house when they're on their off shifts. So 303 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 5: the overall as economy has been healthy. There hasn't been 304 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 5: a huge growth, I don't think, but I think it's 305 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 5: replaced a lot of what was on a downward slide 306 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 5: five ten years ago. 307 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 3: So one of the things we've learned from doing all 308 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 3: these trucking episodes over and over again is that it 309 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 3: is an extremely cyclical industry and supposedly a lot of that, 310 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 3: at least in the lower forty eight is because there 311 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: are really low barriers to entry. So if people see 312 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 3: freight rates start to go up, they think, oh, I'm 313 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 3: going to get a truck, I'm going to get my CDL, 314 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 3: and then I'm going to make the big money driving 315 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 3: this truck around. I'm curious in Alaska is it the 316 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 3: same way? Do you see those sorts of boom bust 317 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: cycles where you have lots of new entrants flo at 318 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 3: the market, and then freight rates start going down and 319 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 3: people start going out of business, and then eventually you 320 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 3: go through the cycle once again. 321 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 5: I would say Alaska's entire economy is that exact situation. 322 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 5: And so in trucking, we have company drivers, and most 323 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 5: companies that are at a scale that we are at 324 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 5: have company drivers, but they also use owner operators or 325 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 5: they use contractors which they hire on for the busy times, 326 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 5: and those contractors over the years become very flexible, so 327 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 5: when times are not good, a lot of times they'll 328 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 5: head south. When you need them again, you call them 329 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 5: and they'll come back up and start hauling again. So 330 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 5: I would say that people do buy more trucks and 331 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 5: try to start their businesses during the really good times, 332 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 5: but a lot of examples of truckers who've done that 333 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 5: and not been successful. When it does decline, it seems 334 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 5: like we've done it enough that the truckers are getting 335 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 5: more savvy to know how much they can spend in. 336 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 5: Instead of buying five trucks, they buy one truck or 337 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 5: two trucks, and they keep those trucks busy with the 338 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 5: flexibility of going out and finding other work down in 339 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 5: the States. 340 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 4: Because as an. 341 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 5: Owner operator, you can go out of business very quickly 342 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 5: if there's a few slow months. 343 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 2: How is Sourdo Express state in business so long? Like 344 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: you know at this point, I'm sure you like, have 345 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 2: there been any near death experiences in the last century 346 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 2: or any close calls in there? 347 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 4: Yeah? 348 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 5: So through the generations, I'm fifth generation owner of Sourdo 349 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 5: and my business partner is my mother, and she's a 350 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 5: and been the CFO for Sourdough for thirty years, and 351 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 5: she's extremely conservative. So she's told me stories of the 352 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 5: history of the generations and her ability to save and 353 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 5: plan for the future for those bad times. I think 354 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 5: is why we've been so successful. When the big shiny 355 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 5: loads are sitting out there, we don't always run at them. 356 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 5: We let those go and we continue servicing our customers 357 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 5: that have been dedicated customers and reliable freight for years 358 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 5: and with her management of those assets and over time, 359 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 5: I think it's it's been very successful. But I can 360 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 5: tell you that we're in a minority in that sense 361 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 5: where there's been a lot of trucking companies come and 362 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 5: go over the years that we've seen come up and 363 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 5: go down. And I would say her ability to plan 364 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 5: has been the biggest asset to Sour in the last 365 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 5: thirty years. 366 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 3: What would be a shiny load in that context, is 367 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 3: it like, you know, some oil company needs something like 368 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 3: right some crucial component for a pipeline or something, and 369 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 3: they need it right now, and so they're paying loads 370 00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 3: of money. 371 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 4: That could be an example. 372 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 5: Well, I mean it's just anybody who needs something very 373 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 5: quickly that requires a lot of assets, and so sometimes 374 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 5: they dangle that out there and trucking companies, well, I'll 375 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 5: go buy ten trucks and I can do that. Twenty 376 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 5: fifteen was a good example of where the oil companies 377 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 5: had come and said, hey, we're going to produce all 378 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 5: this oil and there's a good chance for growth. We 379 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,479 Speaker 5: ended up everyone purchased trucks and got ready, and then 380 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 5: the oil prices crashed and so no fault to them, 381 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 5: but they couldn't sell oil at a profit, and so 382 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 5: they had to pull back the loads and coming back around. 383 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 5: I think everyone was a little more cautious. But we've 384 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 5: also learned with them as a group that works together, 385 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 5: because if we're not successful, they're not successful, and vice versa, 386 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 5: that we're able to plan better and adjust how the 387 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 5: loads work to make sure that the freight gets there 388 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 5: without that risk of the boom bust. So we've done 389 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 5: a lot better job, i'd say, in the last ten 390 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 5: years of planning those cycles and how that's going to work. 391 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 3: Joe, I feel like I have to say that we 392 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 3: are in Anchorage, and so might hear the train going by, 393 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 3: Just that it's very atmosphere. 394 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 2: It's very atmospheric, I mean, and actually sort of walking 395 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: through Anchorage, you turn your head and you see like 396 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 2: ports facilities and you see oil facilities right there, and 397 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: so it does feel like just walking through here, we 398 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 2: are in this hub of logistics industry and commerce, and 399 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 2: you could certainly hear it. You know what, I'm curious about, 400 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 2: how does a family keep people at Alaska, because I 401 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 2: have to imagine that a lot of young people generally speaking, 402 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, probably some tough, dark, long winters 403 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 2: and maybe get attracted to like it might be nice 404 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 2: to move to Los Angeles or something like that. Sometimes 405 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 2: talk to us about like just the culture of like 406 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: who the type of people who stay in Alaska over generations. 407 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. 408 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 5: Now, I think that a lot of people have been 409 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 5: here for a long time. They like what Alaska's to 410 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 5: offer outside of the cities. So a lot of people 411 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 5: you talk to, you have cabins and have places they 412 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 5: go and spend time, and they build those family units 413 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 5: that are strong and based on these experiences they've had together. 414 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 4: A lot of people. 415 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 5: When they graduate high school do go out to the 416 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 5: states and they go to college and they get their degree. 417 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 5: And my sister's a good example where she went out 418 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 5: and she was gone for ten years and decided that 419 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 5: she could be an eye doctor in Alaska just as 420 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 5: easy as she could be in Oklahoma. So she ended 421 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 5: up moving back with her family more so to just 422 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 5: get that family unit that she had been looking for. 423 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 5: I think that a lot of people like the community 424 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 5: that it has to offer, and for some reason, the 425 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 5: misery of living here in the winter, I think brings 426 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 5: people together too. I'm not quite sure on that, but 427 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 5: I've been here for a while so. 428 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 3: Well, in the summer it is very very nice. I 429 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 3: have to say, I haven't seen it in the winter, 430 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 3: but right now it's beautiful. 431 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 2: You know what, the flip side of eleven thirty. 432 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I lived in London and it getting dark at 433 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 3: three pm in December was bad enough. I imagine it's even 434 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 3: worse here. Okay, this is my moment to just ask, 435 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 3: can we get some ice Road trucker type stories, like 436 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 3: tell us some of the harriest moments when you know 437 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 3: you or one of your drivers is on like the 438 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 3: Dalton Highway or something like that. 439 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 4: So I've driven the road twice in my career. 440 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 5: I had got my CEO when I was nineteen, and 441 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 5: I mostly worked on the moving side of our company, 442 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 5: moving in storage, and so I never did the Ice 443 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 5: Road long term, but I did drive a couple of 444 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 5: loads up there and got to experience what that was 445 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 5: like as a driver. The benefit to our trucks now 446 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 5: is we have cameras in every truck, so when stuff 447 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 5: does happen, we have very good advantage points of exactly 448 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 5: what that is, and it's probably four years ago. The 449 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,719 Speaker 5: best camera foota drive scene is we were climbing out 450 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 5: Agan Pass, which is on the Dalton and out of 451 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 5: the corner of the camera it was night but you 452 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 5: could see snow starting to come and an entire avalanche 453 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 5: came down and pushed the truck up against the guardrail 454 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 5: and when everything came still, the snow was over the 455 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 5: front and he was just sitting in an avalanche that 456 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,239 Speaker 5: then he had to wait for the loaders to come 457 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 5: up and dig him back out. We've had a few 458 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 5: of those avalanche type stories. That was the biggest one. 459 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 5: We consistently see wildlife every day. 460 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 4: You can see. 461 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 5: Caribou or wolves or bears on the road and moving 462 00:20:59,040 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 5: out in front of the truck. 463 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 2: Do love life posts a danger? You talk about having 464 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 2: to chain the tires when you're out, like, is there 465 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 2: any risk you're just like when you're out of the cab. 466 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 2: So is there any danger to the driver in those situations? 467 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 5: Yes, And they've gotten smarter over the years. Back in 468 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 5: the seventies and eighties when it was kind of the 469 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 5: good old days, they used to feed a lot of 470 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 5: the animals, I think, and the animals got very used 471 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 5: to that, and we have a lot of pictures of 472 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 5: bear standing up to windows and taking food back in 473 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 5: the seventies. Drivers have gotten a lot smarter since about 474 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 5: inviting the wildlife to the trucks. And there are notices. 475 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 2: This is what they took from us, this is what 476 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 2: they took from us. 477 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 5: But they do post notices and you'll hear on the 478 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 5: Facebook groups and on the communications that, hey, there's a 479 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 5: bear at mile post two twelve, make sure you watch 480 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 5: out when you're chaining up or I mean, there are situations. 481 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 5: They had a wolf problem last year at one of 482 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 5: the construction sites that the pilot cars had to really 483 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 5: be paying attention to, and so there are risks to 484 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 5: that general it's not an issue, but over the years 485 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 5: there definitely have been stories. 486 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 3: You know, you mentioned cameras in the trucks and this 487 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 3: reminded me. But is there technology that people are using 488 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 3: out in Alaska that might mitigate some of the like 489 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 3: Alaska specific dangers. Do you have better weather forecasting technology 490 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 3: or do you pay more attention to the forecasts, Like 491 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 3: are there specific things you're doing with tech that might 492 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: make it easier for your drivers. 493 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 4: I would say Facebook groups. 494 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 5: So Facebook groups is just an example, but tech threads 495 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 5: and the different communication between the drivers that are traveling 496 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 5: it every day. They all have their groups of guys 497 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 5: they know and Hey, I just went through this milepost. 498 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 4: It was really bad. 499 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 5: You might as well stay home until tomorrow. It'll get 500 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 5: better by tomorrow. And so their feedback is way quicker 501 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 5: than the weather way, more accurate, and their ability to 502 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 5: get that through the road is uncanny. So I think 503 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 5: that camaraderie between the drivers is really what keeps that 504 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 5: road safer. 505 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 2: So I take it to our wildfires this summer in Alaska. 506 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 5: This summer was a beginning of the summer, and there 507 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 5: were a few that were very close to the road. 508 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 5: There's two ways to get from Anchors to Fairbanks, and 509 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 5: so we had to send our trucks the longer route 510 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 5: this summer for about a week because they had so 511 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 5: much activity next to the road and it wasn't a 512 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 5: reliable route to send the trucks to get stuff through. 513 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 5: So we've had to deal with that over the years. 514 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 5: A few years ago south of Anchorage, there was a 515 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 5: lot of them that it was delaying the drivers on 516 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 5: a nightly basis waiting for openings to get through. 517 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 4: Oh yeah. 518 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 3: On this topic, is there seasonality in this business in 519 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: the sense that some routes are only open at certain 520 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 3: times of the year. So I heard, you know, for instance, 521 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: some roads have to be frozen for the trucks to 522 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 3: go over them. And then I also heard that there 523 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 3: are some trucks going over like actual frozen water, so 524 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 3: you have to wait for the water to freeze before 525 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 3: you can actually get to the specific part of the world. 526 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 5: So the big ones that everyone talks about are the 527 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 5: ice roads up in prue O Bay, and most of 528 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 5: those are not actually frozen lakes or vers that they're crossing. 529 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 5: There are some, but most of it is they're building 530 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 5: up the ice to protect the tundra so that when 531 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 5: the ice does melt, there's no damage to the tundra. 532 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 5: So if you fly over four wheeler trails that in 533 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 5: the summer, you can see where all those vehicles went. 534 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 5: But if you go up to Prudo and fly over 535 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 5: the oil fields, you can see no trace of trucks 536 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 5: because they build those roads up so strong. They do 537 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 5: go out on the ice in certain areas, but it's 538 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 5: very controlled and very measured. 539 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 2: There was a Netflix movie about that, I think a 540 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 2: few years ago. There was like it was not a 541 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: reality show. 542 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 3: About protecting tundras. 543 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 2: Just about like those like the literal like going over 544 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 2: the frozen water and stuff like that. I forgot about. 545 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: It was really stressful. 546 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 4: They in the shows and the reality shows they obviously. 547 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 2: Dramatic over they overbake it. 548 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 5: They over bake a little bit, and nobody would go 549 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 5: on them if they were that on st Yeah. 550 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, if the movie made it look like there was 551 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 2: a fifty percent chance and time of like. 552 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 5: Making the volume of trucks that travel on it, and 553 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 5: they're Yeah, they have dedicated crews to just maintain those 554 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 5: roads on a daily basis. 555 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 4: It's not something that anybody's willing to risk. 556 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: So something I'm curious about is are the tariffs showing 557 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: up in any way that you notice in your business? 558 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: Have they had an effect on anything, maybe even with 559 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: you know, Alaska Canada trade or anything like that. 560 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 5: We haven't seen significant ones yet in our pricing, other 561 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 5: than we pre ordered a lot of stuff with the 562 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 5: anticipation of tariffs that might not have. 563 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 2: Been When you say preorder stuff, is this like equipment 564 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: or parts or something like that. 565 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 5: Mostly parts, parts that were specifically tire chains. We ordered 566 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,239 Speaker 5: a lot of tire chains, a lot of gear that 567 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 5: was related to. 568 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 2: If you're sitting out, you're still sitting on inventory from 569 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: some of this that you've pre ordered. 570 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 4: We're prepared for winter. 571 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 3: What's the big constraint on your business now? Like, if 572 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 3: you had to name a single frustration that is stopping 573 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 3: you from growing further, what would it be. Whether it's labor, 574 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 3: I don't know, money available for capital investment, regulation, what 575 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 3: would it be. 576 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 4: I would say it's probably the availability of work. 577 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 5: So the more that they open up the oil fields 578 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 5: and allow us to produce on them, I think that's 579 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 5: going to be the biggest factor to growing all of 580 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 5: the businesses in Alaska. They've proven over and over again 581 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 5: that they can continually do it safely and that we're 582 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 5: one of the cleanest producers in the world. And so 583 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 5: as they open those up and responsibly start producing them, 584 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 5: that's what grows the Alaska economy is when we construct 585 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 5: those sites and then produce over the long term. The 586 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 5: oil pipeline since it was built has declined and in 587 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 5: volume that has traveled through it, and for the last 588 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 5: couple of years is the first time it's upticked together. 589 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 4: So that's a very positive. 590 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,479 Speaker 5: Thing for Alaska because it's kind of the lifeline of 591 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 5: almost all Alaskans is the oil and gas industry. DoD 592 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 5: is not very far behind with the Department of Defense spending, 593 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 5: but for what really drives Alaska, so oil gas developments. 594 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 3: So you said, DoD, you just then and I noticed 595 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 3: at the airport there was like a military lounge. So 596 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 3: I guess, like military is a big presence here, right, 597 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 3: Like what exactly is going on? I should know this already, 598 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 3: but like, what is happening. 599 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 2: Here looking over the water at the Yeah, I know, I. 600 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 3: Get that, but like, what exactly is here? 601 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 5: So in Anchorage, which is where we're sitting now, there's 602 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 5: a joint Air Force and Army base that's fairly large. 603 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 5: If you go north the Fairbanks there's an air Force 604 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 5: base and an Army base separated, but also very large 605 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 5: that that Air Force base is used for all the 606 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 5: training for a lot of our allies. They come there 607 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 5: in the summer and you see fighter jets parked all 608 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 5: over and they're doing war games. Outside of Fairbanks, they 609 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 5: have Fort Greeley, which is missile silos in there it's 610 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 5: more of a protection base. And then on the other 611 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 5: side they have clear Air Force Base, which is more 612 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 5: of a identification base where they they're able to monitor 613 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 5: closer to our enemies. 614 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: All right, I'm going to ask you a button question 615 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 2: that I know divides much of the freight community. But 616 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 2: is there a truck driver shortage? 617 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 5: I don't think there's a truck driver shortage. I think 618 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 5: that there is an industry that has put truck drivers 619 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 5: in positions over the years where maybe some of them 620 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 5: have left the profession or hold their kids not to 621 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 5: join the profession. I think there's a lot of quality 622 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 5: truck drivers out of there. I think there's a lot 623 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 5: of companies who don't treat their truck drivers the way 624 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 5: they should be treated, and so that they have a 625 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 5: shortage of employees, more so to do with their policies 626 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 5: and the requirements of what they expect of their drivers 627 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 5: rather than what they give. 628 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 4: Back to them. 629 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,479 Speaker 5: So a sourrow, We've always tried to treat our drivers 630 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 5: as best as possible. We give them schedules that are 631 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 5: family friendly, and we understand that life happens, and so 632 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 5: I think that's been a huge benefit for us and 633 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 5: not just taking drivers for granted that they just keep 634 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 5: coming through the door to really develop your drivers and 635 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 5: make them the high quality drivers that they can be. 636 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 2: Other hot button question, So you know, families owned, it's 637 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 2: going to be self driving ice trucks in one hundred years. 638 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 2: Your family's had the company about one hundred years. Whether 639 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 2: there be human drivers in one hundred years. 640 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 5: I have no opinion on that one. I think that 641 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 5: would be a very hard road to do an actual 642 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 5: self driving truck. I think if they came up with 643 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 5: some sort of rail system or something they could they 644 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 5: could potentially do it, but it would require an extreme 645 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 5: amount of investment to set that up. Just because the 646 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 5: train is so extreme, that road does not have lines 647 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 5: on it, the road shoulders change every mile, the snow 648 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 5: how they plow it changes every year. So I think 649 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 5: it would be an extremely extremely hard road to send 650 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 5: a truck driving itself up. 651 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 2: Have you seen any effect yet from labor related policies 652 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: yet from this administration that in any ways like affected 653 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: the business for better worth? 654 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 4: No, we have. 655 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 3: Now, if you're in a bar in Fairbanks or wherever 656 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 3: with a bunch of other sourdoors, what do you sourdough people, sourdough, sourdough. 657 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,719 Speaker 3: It's sourdoughs and trucking buddies. What's getting you guys riled up? 658 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: Like? 659 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 3: What does the topic of conversation do? Short? 660 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 5: Most of it goes from stories on the road back 661 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 5: to family camping trips and hunting trips and fishing trips 662 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 5: and what they're doing. 663 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 4: On their off time. 664 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 5: The trucking industry in Alaska pays very well, so most 665 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 5: of the drivers have the ability to buy snow machines 666 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 5: and four wheelers and go out and experience what Alaska 667 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 5: actually has to offer beside city life. And most truckers 668 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 5: are very independent and they like that lifestyle. So I 669 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 5: would say it's it's mostly comparing camping stories. 670 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 2: If there's someone who's just like a young guy looking 671 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 2: for direction in the world, if they come to Alaska 672 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: and can they probably find a job of venturely if 673 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: they go through the CDL training, et cetera. Like, Yeah, 674 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 2: is this someone in the lower forty eight looking for direction, 675 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 2: looking for maybe some adventure and excitement and decent pay 676 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 2: and that sort of lifestyle, Like is their demand for 677 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 2: it that right now? 678 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 5: So we've learned over the years that a lot of 679 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 5: people have this dream of Alaska. Yeah, and until they 680 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,239 Speaker 5: come here, they don't quite realize what that dream is. 681 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 4: They just know that it's this. 682 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 5: Vast place that they want to go and spend time. 683 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 5: So we always recommend people come and visit it not 684 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 5: in the summer but in the winter to make sure 685 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 5: it's a place that they want to be. 686 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 4: And then we have a lot of very good. 687 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 5: Truck driving schools, so if they come without a CDL, 688 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 5: in three weeks you can get your CDL. And there 689 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 5: is a lot of opportunity locally in the different cities 690 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 5: to learn to be a truck driver. And so patience 691 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 5: is the biggest one, and people knowing that the first 692 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 5: day they get in that truck, they're not driving the 693 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 5: Hall Road. They're going to be delivering produce to Fred Myers, 694 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 5: or they're going to be delivering lumber to Spinnard Builders 695 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 5: supply it's patients. And then also, like I had mentioned earlier, 696 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 5: the willingness to learn from the experienced drivers who have 697 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 5: done it for years and years, and drivers are very 698 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 5: generous with their knowledge as long as you're willing to 699 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 5: learn it. As soon as you start pushing back most 700 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 5: drivers don't want to teach you anymore because it's not 701 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 5: worth their time. So there's definitely an opportunity to grow 702 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 5: your career and make a life in Alaska. 703 00:31:58,840 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 4: You just have to be patient. 704 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 3: I'm going to ask the flip side of Joe's question, 705 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 3: which is is there anything that people are underestimating about 706 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 3: the Alaskan truck driver experience or something that people might 707 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 3: have misconceptions about when they're starry eyed youthful would be 708 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 3: Alaska truck drivers. 709 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 5: So if you're talking ice road trucking, which is what 710 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 5: the show is based on, I think that the show 711 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 5: romanticized it in the way that it's kind of this 712 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 5: very fun and entertaining thing. But the road from Fairbanks 713 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 5: to pru is twelve hours long and you're by yourself 714 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 5: the whole time. So I think a lot of people 715 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 5: underestimate how much. 716 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 4: Time they spend alone. 717 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 5: And you're not sleeping at truck stops, you're not seeing 718 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 5: people in person. You're talking to them on the radio, 719 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 5: but you're not getting that interaction that a lot of 720 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 5: truckers in the States are used to walking in. You 721 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 5: have one spot cold Foot, Alaska to stop and see people. 722 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 5: But I think the lonesomeness of it, and then coming 723 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 5: back to the terminal and going home to a in 724 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 5: the winter, it's very dark. I think the darkness is 725 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 5: what really drives a lot of people back out of Alaska. 726 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 5: The cold is not fun either, but you can turn 727 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 5: the heater on, you can put a jacket on. 728 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 2: Actually, I did have one more question related to this, which, 729 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 2: as you mentioned, it's like you're truly in the middle 730 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 2: of nowhere. There are in gas stations anywhere. If there 731 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 2: is some sort of an accident or something like that, 732 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 2: what are the sort of like state level infrastructure for 733 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 2: like emergency response out there, Like is there a helicopter 734 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: that like helicopters? 735 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, the state troopers have helicopters that they will fly out. 736 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 5: The problem with helicopters is you got to be able 737 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 5: to land at somewhere, and a lot of the roads 738 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 5: not wide enough or in a position where they can land. 739 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 5: So generally the first responders or other truckers, and a 740 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 5: lot of them have training on what to do with 741 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 5: an injured driver or or something like that. You can 742 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 5: call the different towns on either side of it, but 743 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 5: I mean it could be eight hours before you see 744 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 5: an actual ambulance or something. So a lot of it 745 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 5: is very remote and requires the help of your your 746 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 5: fellow truck driver. 747 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 3: And weather restricted too, and right if you're in trouble 748 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 3: because there's a storm, then a helicopter is not gonna 749 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 3: be able to get to. 750 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 5: This year, the road washed out too, but it wasn't 751 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 5: for very long. But they've had years where the road 752 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 5: gets shut down by avalanches and there's a bunch of 753 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 5: drivers stacked up and the road's too small to turn around, 754 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 5: so you're stuck facing the avalanche and it's been a 755 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 5: couple of days. Or they send fuel trucks out to 756 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 5: go fuel the truck so they can continue running and 757 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 5: staying safe and hand out food, but most of the 758 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 5: drivers carry a few day. 759 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 3: Drivers create like a little camp for themselves. I have 760 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 3: this vision in my head of like a group of 761 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 3: like twelve truck drivers just like getting along in the 762 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 3: wilderness while they wait for the avalanche to get cleared. 763 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 5: I definitely think there's probably a lot of stuff that 764 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 5: they don't feedback to us. I don't know if if 765 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 5: the campfires included. 766 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 2: But Josh Nora, president and owner of Sourdot Express, thank 767 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 2: you so much. For coming on outlock. 768 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you guys for having me. 769 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 2: Tracy. That was a lot of fun. You know, it's 770 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 2: funny thinking about like, you know, obviously Alaska as you know, 771 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 2: a literal gold rush, and then this idea that the 772 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 2: whole state is a big boom bus cycle, right, because 773 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,879 Speaker 2: if you start with gold mining and then you're very 774 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 2: levered to the oil industry. Yeah, so it's like trucking 775 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 2: is like truly the tail end of the whip. It 776 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 2: sounds like cyclical square, yeah, cyclical squared. 777 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. Right. 778 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 3: The other thing I was thinking about is, you know, 779 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 3: in terms of new technology, Josh mentioned the cameras, but 780 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 3: also you got to imagine something like starlink would have 781 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 3: a big impact on drivers' quality of life. If you're 782 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 3: driving out where there's no cell service, maybe if you 783 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 3: have starlink, you finally have a chance to download a 784 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 3: Netflix movie or download all your favorite podcasts so you 785 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 3: don't feel so lonely on the road. But then, you know, 786 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 3: he mentioned Facebook as just a messaging network for the drivers, 787 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,760 Speaker 3: and this is something that I really didn't get until 788 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 3: like two years ago when I got the house in 789 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 3: rural Connecticut, which is like Facebook is essential in rural 790 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 3: parts of the country, Like that is actually the local network, 791 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 3: and that's where when people see a bear coming through, 792 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 3: you know, the neighborhood, that's where people post it. Yeah, 793 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 3: or you know maybe your like neighbor will text you 794 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 3: directly or something. But like all that local info is 795 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 3: going on Facebook. 796 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 4: It is. 797 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 2: That is really interesting. Also, like it's not the first 798 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 2: time that trucking specifically is still an industry that runs 799 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 2: on like sort of group chats and WhatsApp pages, WhatsApp channels, 800 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 2: et cetera. Like that, even the message boards for the 801 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 2: message boards, like that technology that power is like clearly 802 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 2: still like deeply embedded into like sort of core industrial 803 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 2: you know, the core. It's core infrastructure for what makes 804 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 2: the economy run well, all of logistics. 805 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 3: Right, it's a then in the port in Europe or whatever. 806 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right, And yeah, I mean, as you noted, 807 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 2: it really feels like this is a logistics hub. The 808 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 2: listeners can literally hear it while we're doing the episode. 809 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean when you get to the airport, 810 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 3: you can already realize it's a logistics hub. Like I know, 811 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,439 Speaker 3: our producer Dash was talking about people carrying fish through 812 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 3: the airport. There's the military lounges in the airport because 813 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 3: you have the big military airbases and when you're coming 814 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 3: in you can see all that infrastructure, so you do 815 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 3: get that sense. Yeah, all right, shall we leave it there. 816 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 2: Let's leave it there. 817 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 3: This has been another episode of the Oudlots podcast. I'm 818 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 3: Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway. 819 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 2: And I'm Jill Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart. 820 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 2: Next time you're shipping oil industry equipment, call up Josh 821 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 2: at the Sourdough Express. Follow our producers Kerman Rodriguez at 822 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 2: Kerman armand Dash'll Bennett at Dashbot and cal Brooks at 823 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 2: cal Brooks. For more Odd Lots content, go to Bloomberg 824 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 2: dot com slash odd Lots, where we have a daily 825 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 2: newsletter and all of our episodes and you can chat 826 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,240 Speaker 2: about these topics twenty four seven in our discord Discord 827 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 2: dot gg slash lots. 828 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,439 Speaker 3: And if you enjoy All Lots, if you like it 829 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 3: when Joe and I go to Alaska, then please leave 830 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 3: us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember, 831 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 3: if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to 832 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 3: all of our episodes absolutely add free. All you need 833 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 3: to do is find the Bloomberg channel on Apple Podcasts 834 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 3: and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening.