Speaker 1: So after eighteen months, the probe into the insurrection on
Speaker 1: January six, finally came to a close on Monday, and
Speaker 1: their final recommendations are actually kind of huge. Let's get
Speaker 1: into it. The committee recommended that the Department of Justice
Speaker 1: investigate Trump for inciting an insurrection, conspiracy to defraud the
Speaker 1: United States, conspiracy to make a false statement, and obstruction
Speaker 1: of an official proceeding. The committee officials and investigators said
Speaker 1: that they decided to make criminal referrals against Trump after
Speaker 1: seeing sufficient evidence of all of this behavior. So yeah,
Speaker 1: basically the stuff that we already knew, the stuff that
Speaker 1: we basically all saw with our own eyes unfolding on
Speaker 1: and before January six, And now I am really curious
Speaker 1: to find out what happens next. I have been a
Speaker 1: little bit skeptical that we will ever actually see Trump
Speaker 1: or any of his creonies face actual accountability for their actions.
Speaker 1: But notably, I have not seen a lot of the
Speaker 1: major Republican players on the right circling the wagons to
Speaker 1: protect Trump like I thought they might have done, so
Speaker 1: I guess we'll see. During the closing comments, the committee
Speaker 1: played a montage of all the different people who were
Speaker 1: hurt or killed during January six and that includes Ruby
Speaker 1: Freeman and Shame Moss, and I am really holding space
Speaker 1: for these women in the aftermath of the commission. Their
Speaker 1: story is a really good reminder why we should all
Speaker 1: care about what happens on the Internet, because not only
Speaker 1: does it hurt the people targeted, like Ruby and Shame,
Speaker 1: but when our online platforms amplify lies that traffic and
Speaker 1: racism and sexism, it has real consequences for all of us.
Speaker 1: It makes us all less safe and less secure in
Speaker 1: the process. So I sat down with my good friend
Speaker 1: Miles Gray from the podcast The Daily Zeitgeist to discuss
Speaker 1: the story of Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss to private
Speaker 1: citizens who were targeted by Trump and his allies and
Speaker 1: how cruelly their own country betrayed them. And this is
Speaker 1: just part one of a two part conversation about what
Speaker 1: these women went through and how it hurts all of us.
Speaker 1: Look be to another episode of Internet Hate Machine. I
Speaker 1: am so thrilled to be joined a BYuT one of
Speaker 1: my favorite humans, Miles Gray of The Daily Zy Guys. Miles,
Speaker 1: thank you for being here? Are you for really for real?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Thank you? Bridget I mean honestly, you're
Speaker 1: one of The feeling is very mutual. Um before can
Speaker 1: I tell them off? Mike, I was in my feelings
Speaker 1: because when I was in d C, I was like,
Speaker 1: let's hang out, and you didn't see the message in time,
Speaker 1: but it did break my heart only because of my
Speaker 1: deep respect and admiration for you. So the feeling is
Speaker 1: so mutual. As I said, next time you're in d C,
Speaker 1: I'm taking you and yours out to a big dinner.
Speaker 1: I mean it, okay, I mean I don't need a
Speaker 1: big dinner as you know. Whatever, Just show me something cool,
Speaker 1: you know, like is Marvin still open on Q Street?
Speaker 1: It closed? It's still longer there? Yeah, it's gone. It was.
Speaker 1: It's like a DC institution gone because of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I really wow. Anyway, this isn't a DC
Speaker 1: restaurant show. But anyway, shout out to r I P
Speaker 1: long live Marvin's had so many good nights there. But
Speaker 1: I have to ask you, Miles, have you been following
Speaker 1: that any of the January six hearings me a daily
Speaker 1: news podcast? Me? Oh, I would say, I mean, to
Speaker 1: be honest, I follow enough to know like what happened
Speaker 1: during every Night of Couchella, as I refer to as
Speaker 1: the January six hearings, so like I'll keep up with
Speaker 1: the big developments from there, but I definitely have like
Speaker 1: there's so I know, there's so much information to go
Speaker 1: deep on. That part of me is like my cynicism,
Speaker 1: where it's like, look, i'll be interested if there's actual consequences,
Speaker 1: So wake me up when I start seeing people getting
Speaker 1: perp walked. But to that, to that end, I have
Speaker 1: been keeping up, but I would say, like I'm a
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to gauge my engagement with
Speaker 1: the news, like casual follower, although I probably know a
Speaker 1: few things, but yeah, I've been It's so funny because
Speaker 1: I was going to say the same thing. I consider
Speaker 1: myself a casual follower. But that makes it sound like
Speaker 1: you're talking about Grey's Anatomy or something, or like Housewives, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: I dip in and dip out. I missed the last season.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know if we should be talking
Speaker 1: about like exactly You're like, I know that it went
Speaker 1: from like I know, I remember when it became Sloan
Speaker 1: Gray Slow Memorial Hospital, and that was a wave of
Speaker 1: two um and then that one person who got hit
Speaker 1: by the bicycle and then they were about to anyway. Um,
Speaker 1: all that to say, yeah, who knows in this age
Speaker 1: of so much information, what is casual and what is
Speaker 1: like obsessed? Well, on December nineteen is going to be
Speaker 1: the final public hearing of the January six committee, and
Speaker 1: the final report is actually gonna be released a few
Speaker 1: days later on December twenty one. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: all coming to an end. And I'm kind of like you,
Speaker 1: I followed it, but I am not getting my hopes
Speaker 1: up for actual consequences or accountability for any of the
Speaker 1: major players that deserve consequences. So we will see, yeah,
Speaker 1: because we only have history to tell us that there
Speaker 1: won't be consequences. So I'm like, unless we have a
Speaker 1: market shift, and how are like legal system works and
Speaker 1: who we enforce the like actual laws with um, I'm
Speaker 1: counting on Like it's like I feel like the little
Speaker 1: pieces of a red meat that have people feeling like,
Speaker 1: oh they're doing something or all the like ancillary tertiary
Speaker 1: sort of characters to this, like the like oathkeeper adjacent
Speaker 1: folks who they're like, oh and then you walked in
Speaker 1: there and smashed a wall. See you in two years.
Speaker 1: It's like, where's Jenny Thomas at hello? Are we talking
Speaker 1: about her at all? God? I would love to see
Speaker 1: her get up her block. Could you imagine she'd be like,
Speaker 1: I need to speak with the manager like she was,
Speaker 1: She would actually say that I feel like and then
Speaker 1: they would be like, oh, well, why didn't you say that? Sooner?
Speaker 1: Take the cuffs off? Can I speak to the manager
Speaker 1: of jail please? Oh wait, it's my husband, Clarence. Do something, honey.
Speaker 1: So there's been so much compelling testimony from these hearings,
Speaker 1: but in my book, I don't think any was more
Speaker 1: compelling than the testimony from Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss.
Speaker 1: You might remember their testimony from a couple of months ago.
Speaker 1: Basically when they gave their testimony, it kind of like
Speaker 1: broke my heart to hear this personal story in their
Speaker 1: own words of how Trump and Juliani and this whole
Speaker 1: ecosystem of assholes basically ruined their lives and jeopardized their safety.
Speaker 1: And I think that their story is one that is
Speaker 1: really about racism and sexism, and like this general visceral
Speaker 1: distrust and disdain that a lot of folks have for
Speaker 1: black women like Ruby and Shay. So I really think
Speaker 1: that this their story is kind of like the culmination
Speaker 1: of so many things that we have already talked about
Speaker 1: on this podcast. You know, when racism and sexism run
Speaker 1: unchecked online and it creates the conditions for lies about
Speaker 1: black women to have a welcome home online where they
Speaker 1: will always be amplified and legitimized. And in this case,
Speaker 1: it doesn't just impact these black women, it threatens democracy
Speaker 1: or all of us. So that's really what I'm excited
Speaker 1: to get into today. Please, I'm excited to talk about
Speaker 1: anything that helps me feel better about our democracy, I mean,
Speaker 1: or worse. But as long as we get to the
Speaker 1: bottom of it, I feel like there's there's comfort in
Speaker 1: knowledge too. There's a little comfort in it. Um. So
Speaker 1: if folks don't know, Ruby Moss and her daughter Shae
Speaker 1: Freeman were both election workers in Fulton County, Georgia, a
Speaker 1: state that Trump legitimately lost in Barren Square and where Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be saying that every twenty minutes like a
Speaker 1: goddamn egg timer on this episode. So okay used to it.
Speaker 1: So if you're listening, that is may or may not
Speaker 1: be a drinking game. Yeah, drink a sip of your
Speaker 1: beverage every time I bring that up. You might also
Speaker 1: remember that Georgia is where Trump pressured the Secretary of
Speaker 1: State to find votes for him in an attempt to
Speaker 1: rewrite history. Mm hmm, because he lost that election. Farren Square,
Speaker 1: So shame eight had really been like a long time
Speaker 1: election worker in Georgia. This was something that she was
Speaker 1: like known for in her community. Listening to her talk
Speaker 1: about why she became an election worker, you know it.
Speaker 1: She describes it as something that she did out of
Speaker 1: a way to like genuinely support her community. She talks
Speaker 1: about how there are a lot of older folks in
Speaker 1: your community, and working as a poll worker felt like
Speaker 1: a way to give back to the elders in her
Speaker 1: in her town. Um. You you can just tell when
Speaker 1: she's describing this that it's something that she feels felt
Speaker 1: a lot of pride about. During Fulton County was meant
Speaker 1: to have a shortage of election workers because of COVID,
Speaker 1: and so Sha recruited her sixty two year old mother, Ruby,
Speaker 1: who was a retired nine one one operator, to also
Speaker 1: serve as an election worker. And Yeah, it just was
Speaker 1: clear that This was something that these women were really
Speaker 1: excited to be sort of doing what they saw as
Speaker 1: their civic duty to support their their community, that they
Speaker 1: talk about it with such reverence and pride. In an
Speaker 1: attempt to cast doubt on the election, which Trump legitimately lost,
Speaker 1: that's number two. Trump and his henchman Rudy Giuliani repeatedly
Speaker 1: named Ruby and Shay, both black women, as election workers
Speaker 1: who were rigging the election in favor of Biden. Now
Speaker 1: I don't think I need to tell you this was
Speaker 1: just an outright baseless lie. But this lie basically destroyed
Speaker 1: their lives. And I want to get into a little
Speaker 1: bit of how it started and where it came from.
Speaker 1: On December three, lawyer working for the Trump campaign obtained
Speaker 1: security video from election night from the State Farm Arena
Speaker 1: and Georgia. It showed election workers and pole counters, including
Speaker 1: Ruby and Shay, just doing their jobs like exactly what
Speaker 1: you I know, how dare they well? I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: we all know what they were doing in there. They
Speaker 1: were they were making votes up for Joe Byron. If you,
Speaker 1: if you believe Rudy Giulietti, that is exactly what was
Speaker 1: going on. This lawyer brought the video to a Georgia
Speaker 1: State Senate committee, saying that it showed someone who quote
Speaker 1: had the name Ruby across her shirt somewhere finding a
Speaker 1: suitcase full of ballots underneath the ta able. Again, I
Speaker 1: don't really think I need to tell you that this
Speaker 1: is all complete bullshit. The video just showed election workers
Speaker 1: who were told to pack up for the night, so
Speaker 1: they're putting the ballots away, not in suitcases. There's no
Speaker 1: suitcases in this video. It's just like the normal ballot boxes.
Speaker 1: They put these ballot boxes away, and then later they're told,
Speaker 1: actually go ahead and we start to vote count, don't
Speaker 1: wait until the morning. And so that's what they did.
Speaker 1: It's just a hum drum normal video of people doing
Speaker 1: their fucking jobs. I just love to like all these
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that come with the like come from the right.
Speaker 1: They all have this like Looney Tunes depiction of how
Speaker 1: like reality works, like and it's in a leather suitcase
Speaker 1: with ballots shooting out this side. This thing was tacked
Speaker 1: to the gills, like really a suitcase, Like what does
Speaker 1: that even mean? It's so how someone who was writing
Speaker 1: a bad movie would script like like election rigging, like
Speaker 1: being passed a suitcase under a table, like even like
Speaker 1: a briefcase is such a like weird thing to say
Speaker 1: that that was in use um for election rigging. Later,
Speaker 1: Juliani talks about how it was involved like USB drives
Speaker 1: and like, you know, staging a phony pipe pipe breaking
Speaker 1: in the in the vote count center. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like it's so over the top and cartoony. But I
Speaker 1: do think that that is what these people think actually
Speaker 1: happens in real life, That real life works like a
Speaker 1: goddamn episode of dark Wing Duck. I mean, it would
Speaker 1: explain some of the logic that they used to try
Speaker 1: and like overturn elections or most people like what the
Speaker 1: funk was that? Just like I don't know, I think,
Speaker 1: maybe call a bunch of goons to the capitol and
Speaker 1: then it will work out. Let's just try it, you know,
Speaker 1: you never know, you never know. So the video of
Speaker 1: these election workers, including Ruby and Shay, starts making its
Speaker 1: way online through this really gross cottage industry of like
Speaker 1: right wing extremists blogs and media sites, and once it's
Speaker 1: in that online pipeline, it's everywhere. It doesn't matter that
Speaker 1: this video was like immediately debunked by Georgia's Secretary of State,
Speaker 1: like immediately, once it's out there, it's out there. And
Speaker 1: this is where we really get like a big vector
Speaker 1: of lies about the women, which is a website called
Speaker 1: the Gateway Pundit. Have you ever heard of this? Oh yeah, real,
Speaker 1: real place where you poison your brain with nonsense. Absolutely so.
Speaker 1: The Gateway Pundit is an extremist right wing media site.
Speaker 1: Research from the University of Washington Center for and Informed
Speaker 1: Public found that the Gateway Pundit was the second most
Speaker 1: prolific purveyor of election misinformation on Twitter in the late months.
Speaker 1: So just a real place where if you want complete
Speaker 1: fictions to be amplified to millions of people, that's your site.
Speaker 1: M hmmmm, I mean yeah, it's it's they're soothing bedtime
Speaker 1: stories for panicked white people who are not ready for
Speaker 1: the status quo to be upended. Sounds exactly the same
Speaker 1: day that that lawyer for Trump sends that video saying
Speaker 1: that he thinks that it includes election tampering. The Way
Speaker 1: Public publish as an article the first article that disseminates
Speaker 1: the video, and a story that was promoted under the
Speaker 1: headline huge in all caps. Video footage from Georgia show
Speaker 1: suitcase is filled with ballots pulled up from under a
Speaker 1: table after supervisor told GOP poll workers to leave tabulation
Speaker 1: center right, and so that's the first time that this
Speaker 1: video kind of hits the online space in a big way.
Speaker 1: The Gateway Pundit then calls Ruby out by first and
Speaker 1: last name writing on the site. Her name is Ruby Freeman,
Speaker 1: and she made the mistake of advertising her purse on
Speaker 1: her desk the same night that she was involved in
Speaker 1: voter fraud on a all caps massive scale. Her t
Speaker 1: search says Lady Ruby, and her purse says La Ruby,
Speaker 1: which is her company. This was not a very smart move.
Speaker 1: Her company is called La Ruby's Unique Treasures. It's on
Speaker 1: her LinkedIn page. Maybe the Georgia Police or Bill Bars
Speaker 1: d o J may want to pay Ruby Freeman a
Speaker 1: visit um. The article concludes with an image of her
Speaker 1: with a banner that says all caps read lettering crook
Speaker 1: gets caught. Oh boy, yeah, that's uh, that's you already
Speaker 1: know that's bad news. I mean knowing to like this
Speaker 1: online trash, to like Fox News or news Max pipeline.
Speaker 1: It's like it always you can always write like link
Speaker 1: every Tucker or handy thing, and it's always going to
Speaker 1: start off with some weird non kernel of lie uh
Speaker 1: that's posted online exactly, and so that's I think that
Speaker 1: this exactly what you just said. I feel like the
Speaker 1: way that this video moved through the online right wing
Speaker 1: blog a sphere digital ecosystem really gives us an idea
Speaker 1: of exactly what you're talking about, right, how this sort
Speaker 1: of digital ecosystem works. Like it started with Gateway Pundit,
Speaker 1: then it goes to O A N, then Trump starts
Speaker 1: amplifying it on his Twitter, right, and so like it
Speaker 1: starts in this like really kind of what should be
Speaker 1: like a fringe site, even though Gateway Pundit did get
Speaker 1: White House credentials when Trump was an office. But then
Speaker 1: it ends up with Trump amplifying the video that he
Speaker 1: got from Gateway Pundit and then Box News talking about it, right,
Speaker 1: and so it really doesn't move through this like shitty
Speaker 1: pipeline of extremist right wing garbage. So just three days
Speaker 1: after Gateway Punditt publishes this, Ruby starts getting harassed and
Speaker 1: people are showing up outside of her door and she's
Speaker 1: really scared. I'm gonna play a little clip of a
Speaker 1: nine one one call that she made grabbing ham and
Speaker 1: terrorist great herbans hairs, an harassing phone called and emails
Speaker 1: and they came out and made a police report. Um
Speaker 1: yesterday and nast night about time. Minutes after night, somebody
Speaker 1: was a bamon on the door. And now somebody's bammon
Speaker 1: on the door. Can't call any screaming he's there, bammin
Speaker 1: on the door, right, crying to a bamon on the door. No,
Speaker 1: they are an the wayman, Oh god. So I mean,
Speaker 1: she sounds terrified. It's heartbreaking. And this is like a
Speaker 1: sixtysomething year old woman, you know, who's making this call
Speaker 1: because people are banging on the doors of her house
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night and she doesn't know
Speaker 1: what to do. It is terrifying mm hmm. And I
Speaker 1: think what's also really important to point out here is
Speaker 1: the ways that Trump and his cronies specifically used racism
Speaker 1: and misogyny to fuel this lie. Like, I don't think
Speaker 1: that this lie would have worked the same way had
Speaker 1: Ruby and her daughter not been black women. And I
Speaker 1: think if we didn't have a digital media climate kind
Speaker 1: of ready and willing to validate and amplify the worst
Speaker 1: racist lies about black women who we already know are
Speaker 1: disproportionately harmed by things like disinformation and harassment and conspiracy series.
Speaker 1: I don't think it would have worked the same way,
Speaker 1: and I think that you saw that in a lot
Speaker 1: of the way that Trump and his allies talked about
Speaker 1: these women. I'm gonna play another clip for you from
Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani. I apologize for making you listen to his voice.
Speaker 1: Take earlier in the day of Ruby Freeman and Shae Freeman,
Speaker 1: Mars and one other gentleman quite obviously surreptitiously passing around
Speaker 1: USB ports as if they are vials of heroin or cocaine.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's our it's it's obvious to anyone who's
Speaker 1: a criminal investigator or prosecutor. They're engaged in surreptitious and
Speaker 1: illegal activity again that day and after a week ago,
Speaker 1: and they're still walking around Georgia. Why should have been
Speaker 1: they should have been uh should been questioned already? There
Speaker 1: are places of work, their homes should have been searched
Speaker 1: for evidence of balance, for ellis, evidence of USB ports,
Speaker 1: for evidence of voter fraud. Oh so, so they the
Speaker 1: USB port, what you put the USB drive into Yes,
Speaker 1: isn't it interesting how earlier you were like, wow, pretty
Speaker 1: weird that their claims of voter fraud involved like briefcases.
Speaker 1: That's pretty cartoony. And now he's saying that they're passing
Speaker 1: USB drives back and forth to each other like vials
Speaker 1: of heroin. And then he says that their house should
Speaker 1: be searched for USB ports, like like, which is it?
Speaker 1: Is it like a super high tech USB enabled voter
Speaker 1: theft or is it briefcases full of ballots? I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm more getting angry as like a nerd
Speaker 1: who likes technology. The port is the opening in which
Speaker 1: you would insert some kind of USB cable or thumb drive.
Speaker 1: That's like being like and they had outlets that they
Speaker 1: were passing around. It's like, well, is it the plug
Speaker 1: or what are you talking about the thing that goes
Speaker 1: into what you're I think what you mean is a
Speaker 1: USB drive. So, aside from getting hung up on that,
Speaker 1: the like you're saying, this is just so common with
Speaker 1: with these like right wing people, because we already get it,
Speaker 1: like we know you're anti black racists. That's that's that's
Speaker 1: completely clear. And all of the legislation and the like
Speaker 1: the rhetoric that's being used. But to even like evoke
Speaker 1: like the drug war, to put these women in the
Speaker 1: context of the drug war, because that was absolutely he's
Speaker 1: referring to a hand to hand crack deal or some ship,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And he's basically saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: black people, you know they're shady because of drugs. Therefore,
Speaker 1: what the funk were they doing with those USB ports?
Speaker 1: You see, it rights itself and it's this like really
Speaker 1: cheap way that allows this racism to just casually continue
Speaker 1: because it's like, all right, tick that box, tick that box,
Speaker 1: Yet black people yep, yep, that's enough for me. Exactly
Speaker 1: like the way that he so casually evokes the like
Speaker 1: the drug the drug war, I think it's meant to
Speaker 1: be like, y'all know how black people are. There's never
Speaker 1: there's why would you You're already basically accusing these women
Speaker 1: of vote tampering. Why are you then also evoking drugs?
Speaker 1: These women are not like that. That's it just it
Speaker 1: just goes to show how when it comes to racism,
Speaker 1: exactly like you said, it's these seemingly disparate things gloamed
Speaker 1: together just to be like, just by virtue of this
Speaker 1: being a black person, something shady is going on, my
Speaker 1: virtue of their presence, like he could have said. And
Speaker 1: then you see in the video handing each other usb
Speaker 1: ports like it was the wire or something. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean, that's basically what he's saying, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's just hasn't seen the wire. He's not. He's not,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying, yeah, of course not. But I'm saying
Speaker 1: that's the shorthand that it's evoking, which is essentially to say, look,
Speaker 1: we're so racist, we can't even imagine black people committing
Speaker 1: this kind of crime of voter fraud. So let me
Speaker 1: dumb it down to something that are like our culture
Speaker 1: has rammed down your throats as to what black people are,
Speaker 1: which are drug dealers or gang members. So let me
Speaker 1: re contextualize this voter fraud in this very neat trope
Speaker 1: that you're already used to having, like no thought cliches
Speaker 1: that you just immediately say yes to. And that's how yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's and it's it's sad how quickly that momentum
Speaker 1: moves because people really they just need a reason to
Speaker 1: act out, like act on their racist beliefs exactly. And
Speaker 1: so obviously these women were not passing a USB drive
Speaker 1: back and forth, but they were actually passing each other
Speaker 1: was a piece of ginger candy. So what Giuliani was saying,
Speaker 1: which is complete bs. Yeah. You might also remember that
Speaker 1: infamous phone call where Trump called Georgia's Secretary of State
Speaker 1: Brad Raethvensburger, asking him to find votes. In that call,
Speaker 1: he evoked Ruby Freeman by name. Here's what he said.
Speaker 1: We had at least eighteen thousand that's so unpaid. We
Speaker 1: had him counted very eight thousand voters having to do
Speaker 1: with the roomy Freeman. That's she's a vote scammer, a
Speaker 1: professional vote scammer, and hustlers. So he calls her a
Speaker 1: professional vote scammer, which and hustler. And I think even
Speaker 1: kind of like what Miles was saying, the language that
Speaker 1: he uses to talk about her a hustler, a professional scammer,
Speaker 1: like it really hearkens back to this, I guess, a
Speaker 1: really specific and well worn trope about black women that
Speaker 1: I think he's really, in a kind of a savvy way,
Speaker 1: trying to hearken back to, like, oh, you know how
Speaker 1: black women are all scammers and hustlers exactly. So I
Speaker 1: also think kind of to that end, And this is
Speaker 1: like a little complicated to talk about, but I think
Speaker 1: that's definitely part of it. One of the reasons I
Speaker 1: think that this lie took off like it did is
Speaker 1: because of the visual of these two black women. Sites
Speaker 1: like the Gateway Pundit, who are where who that are
Speaker 1: really good at knowing what's going to resonate with their audience,
Speaker 1: what's gonna stoke something within their audience as going to
Speaker 1: motivate them to click and share. It's probably not surprising
Speaker 1: to you that they really used a lot of images
Speaker 1: of these women, Like every story had a picture of them,
Speaker 1: like a close up of them looking sort of like
Speaker 1: they were up to no good, doing something nefarious. And
Speaker 1: I think that that those images, I think really added
Speaker 1: like a kind of a visual element to the story
Speaker 1: that that really allowed it to take hold with racists.
Speaker 1: Um on election night. Uh, these women were wearing blonde
Speaker 1: hair extensions which contrast with their dark complexions, basically the
Speaker 1: exact same hairstyle that I am currently wearing. Ruby owns
Speaker 1: a a fashion store like am jewelry store, and so
Speaker 1: she has a kind of a flashy personal style. She's
Speaker 1: wearing a bedazzled shirt and has a bedazzled purse. I
Speaker 1: think that they posted these images so often to pretty
Speaker 1: much say, look how black these women are. And I
Speaker 1: think Trump and Giuliani saw this video of two black
Speaker 1: women counting votes in Georgia, and they knew that they
Speaker 1: could say that these black women are the culprits and
Speaker 1: that those black women were liars, and those black women
Speaker 1: were the reason that Trump lost the election. And I
Speaker 1: think the same way that Trump makes a whole thing
Speaker 1: of like attacking black women, that's was his thing when
Speaker 1: he was in the White House, I think, by black
Speaker 1: women exactly exactly. Um. I think that he knew his
Speaker 1: base would be poised and primed to believe whatever wild
Speaker 1: conjecture that he pulled out of his ass, because they
Speaker 1: have a visceral disdain and distrust for black women that
Speaker 1: he stokes. And I think, you know, when social media
Speaker 1: platforms are the cesspools of racist, sexist garbage, of course
Speaker 1: it's going to amplify those lines of thinking. So I
Speaker 1: think that Trump knew that his base would be really
Speaker 1: ready to believe if they saw this visual of black
Speaker 1: women just presimply doing their jobs and you know, not
Speaker 1: doing anything wrong in Georgia, that would be enough proof
Speaker 1: to convince them that something shady was going down. In
Speaker 1: the absence of like actual proof proof that basically his
Speaker 1: supporters would be like, hey, black women were involved in
Speaker 1: the vote counting process. That should be enough to tell
Speaker 1: you that the election was against me, which it wasn't,
Speaker 1: because he lost. Exactly what was that he lost the election?
Speaker 1: You said election? He did lose? He I mean to check, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's here that he lost, Okay, but yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's the same lazy racism. It's like, basically he's trying
Speaker 1: to scale up the central part birdwatcher call it's a
Speaker 1: black person, you know, because that has been weaponized against
Speaker 1: black people for since time immemorial. The mere presence of
Speaker 1: blackness is enough for racist people to say something is
Speaker 1: afoot here. Just be just off the fucking physical presence
Speaker 1: of black people, you know what I mean. And so
Speaker 1: to your point, it's it's because all the base probably
Speaker 1: all have a very similar like outlook on black American people,
Speaker 1: which is like whoo who h. So if that's already
Speaker 1: your baseline in thinking about a black person, it doesn't
Speaker 1: take much then to just be like and that's bad, right, folks,
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And there's no thought that
Speaker 1: needs to go into because like to your point, it's
Speaker 1: just like they're just sort of um like drafting off
Speaker 1: of the cultural momentum of racism that already exists, like
Speaker 1: to the point where we don't really some people just
Speaker 1: don't even need facts. It's the fact that they are
Speaker 1: black women is quite literally enough exactly. And I think
Speaker 1: that there they knew that their base for them that
Speaker 1: would be enough. They didn't need any other kind of proof.
Speaker 1: Just the fact that black women were in the mix
Speaker 1: in Georgia enough said. And this led to really like
Speaker 1: like an uptick in very scary online harassment. She says
Speaker 1: that she got so many threats wishing death upon her.
Speaker 1: One of them said should be in jail with her mother,
Speaker 1: and saying things like you should be glad it's not
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, which is obviously like a pretty obvious threat
Speaker 1: to like lynch her or reference to lynching. So being
Speaker 1: a flapper, yeah, they're not talking about like being a
Speaker 1: bootlegger or something. Yeah, that's a that's a inching reference, right,
Speaker 1: And so it really goes to show how you know,
Speaker 1: we're not talking about just mean messages on the internet.
Speaker 1: We're talking about very, very threats. But these women went
Speaker 1: through because of these lives. I want to play another
Speaker 1: clip of their testimony talking about how this affected their
Speaker 1: everyday life. Now. I won't even introduce my self by
Speaker 1: my name anymore. I get nervous when I bump into
Speaker 1: someone I know in the grocery store who says my name.
Speaker 1: I'm heard about who's listening. I get nervous when I
Speaker 1: have to give my name for food orders. I'm always
Speaker 1: concerned of who's around me. I've lost my name, and
Speaker 1: I've lost my reputation. I've lost my sense of security
Speaker 1: m all because a group of people, starting with number
Speaker 1: forty five and his allah, Rudy Giuliani, decided to scapegoat
Speaker 1: me and my door to shape to push their own
Speaker 1: lines about how the presidential election was stolen. It honestly
Speaker 1: boils my blood to hear her talk about how this
Speaker 1: reputation and name that had meant so much to her,
Speaker 1: Like she talked about how she used to wear her
Speaker 1: name bedazzled on her hat, on her shirts, on her
Speaker 1: persons because she was so proud of her name and
Speaker 1: now she doesn't even introduce herself by name anymore, and
Speaker 1: that is what Trump and Giuliani took from her. It's heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: You know, these these women were pillars of their community
Speaker 1: and now they're you know, basically resigned to a life
Speaker 1: of hiding for their own safety. Yeah, it's it's so
Speaker 1: hard to, like you say here that because there's so
Speaker 1: many levels of loss that are being experienced by this woman, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, just in the context of slavery, right, you've
Speaker 1: already lost your identity in your name through chattel slavery,
Speaker 1: through the Middle passage, Like you've completely been severed from
Speaker 1: your sense of belonging or identity just from being forcibly
Speaker 1: brought to this land. And then to go through all
Speaker 1: the other things that black people have to have to
Speaker 1: go through since the end of slavery, and to have
Speaker 1: someone like this who still believes that this country is
Speaker 1: worth saying, you know what, this is a way that
Speaker 1: I feel like I can give back because this is
Speaker 1: giving me something, and I and I have this exchange
Speaker 1: feels fair. To only have that lead to something like
Speaker 1: this where now you you're doubling back and saying I've
Speaker 1: lost my name I've lost my ability to even have
Speaker 1: pride in myself. That's like such a level of like, like,
Speaker 1: the dimensions of loss are so profound that it's not
Speaker 1: just like and I can't even go on Twitter anymore.
Speaker 1: It's no, I've actually become afraid to identify myself because
Speaker 1: someone's lies are fueling a bunch of violent thoughts and
Speaker 1: deeds from other people. That's really funny. It's really hard
Speaker 1: to hear that because she doesn't deserve that. And I
Speaker 1: really feel bad when people are so invested in how
Speaker 1: good this country is and wanting to stick up for
Speaker 1: it and fight for it, and you're getting crumbs back constantly.
Speaker 1: And there's another part of that too that feels it's
Speaker 1: really difficult for me to watch and like kind of
Speaker 1: reckon with as I see this all happen. Is the
Speaker 1: same thing with like that one Capital police officer, that
Speaker 1: one black officer who was fighting off this whole crowd,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, in a way, I'm like, for what, man,
Speaker 1: because what are they given? I mean, what how has
Speaker 1: how have things? How have those how have the needs
Speaker 1: of our community actually been heard or met? But somehow
Speaker 1: the resilience to come back and keep believing. It's like
Speaker 1: it's it like makes me feel bad that I'm cynical.
Speaker 1: It makes me feel like, I don't know, is that
Speaker 1: the Is that the best place to put my energy
Speaker 1: or not. But that's just I think that's always the
Speaker 1: darkness that exists when you look at these kinds of
Speaker 1: situations where especially Black Americans are like, I actually believe
Speaker 1: in the good of this country, only to have your
Speaker 1: own blackness weaponized against you to the point that you
Speaker 1: have you've you're in hiding. It's just this level of
Speaker 1: docks sing is it's like so inhumane and cruel, like
Speaker 1: they're they're they're literally in the amount of they didn't
Speaker 1: have to be there. They didn't have to they didn't
Speaker 1: have to work in the in the voting polls, they
Speaker 1: didn't have to help people. They were there to help
Speaker 1: people vote. They were there to help people vote, and
Speaker 1: they've now docks them to the point that they're afraid
Speaker 1: to use their own name. That is that that is America,
Speaker 1: and that is disgusting. Just yeah, I just wish um
Speaker 1: it's funny. You know, like my grandmother she loved it
Speaker 1: as flashy the black woman. You go to church, you
Speaker 1: put your nice wig on, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: the wild metallic jacket and stuff that's like part of culturally,
Speaker 1: that's part of how we have a sense of pride
Speaker 1: of what little we have we have left because we
Speaker 1: were completely excluded from the the fruits of slave labor,
Speaker 1: you know. And then to even say, like there's something
Speaker 1: I can see like you like, you know, some people
Speaker 1: can easily identify with what you're talking about. Other people
Speaker 1: may have a harder time. But that was another part
Speaker 1: that really is hard to hear, is like I used
Speaker 1: to like to wear my things, Like the little bits
Speaker 1: of joy that she was able to extract from her
Speaker 1: life were taken away from her. And I think that's it,
Speaker 1: and how easily and how quickly that happens should really
Speaker 1: be frightening for all people and not just people who
Speaker 1: are are black or women or people of color. It's
Speaker 1: the idea that like this is kind of the game
Speaker 1: that people are playing now. They're like, you know, will
Speaker 1: lie on you and we don't care what the toll
Speaker 1: is because we'll just sick a mob on you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's difficult to hear me to to listen to
Speaker 1: what you're saying. She reminds me so much of my
Speaker 1: own mother and grandmother, who also like to wear their
Speaker 1: big hats and dress flashy and be bedazzled and have
Speaker 1: long nails, and that that's part of a cultural identity
Speaker 1: of what makes them who they are. It's it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful way that they express who they are to the world.
Speaker 1: And weaponizing your own identity against you having these things
Speaker 1: that make you feel like you, that make you feel
Speaker 1: like you're showing up in the world and telling the
Speaker 1: world who you are. Turning those things against you is
Speaker 1: a different kind of cruelty that I that I don't
Speaker 1: know that everybody can really understand what that is like. No,
Speaker 1: because you look at people who are like, well, these
Speaker 1: other people have been canceled on the right or whatever,
Speaker 1: and like they're a shamed or whatever. It's like, no, man,
Speaker 1: Kyle Rittenhouse can walk into some bar in Texas and
Speaker 1: they'll cheer for him, and he'll be out here with
Speaker 1: his chest outing I'm Kyle House. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: That's he hasn't lost anything, He's only gained something because
Speaker 1: he's it's only rallied more violent people like people around him.
Speaker 1: Whereas this is just like to your point, weaponizing your
Speaker 1: own existence against you. That is a that battles lost
Speaker 1: basically immediately, at least psychologically for the person who is
Speaker 1: the subject of it. It's really heartbreaking. Yeah. Then like
Speaker 1: part of me was liked, stop fucking helping this place.
Speaker 1: They don't give a funk look at what they do,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And but there, But I
Speaker 1: think it's really important to not become that. You can't
Speaker 1: get to that level of cynicism if you are going
Speaker 1: to continue. And that's a huge lesson I think most
Speaker 1: Black people carry within them, is you. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can't give up because we could have given up, We
Speaker 1: could have given up hundreds of years ago. But there
Speaker 1: has to be that sense that there is something on
Speaker 1: the other side of it to keep you going. That
Speaker 1: it's when it comes out in the kind of cruel
Speaker 1: way to like use the optimism of these women to say,
Speaker 1: you know what, I think, I think this could be
Speaker 1: something good, and then it turned into something just the
Speaker 1: antithesis of that, just tragedy upon tragedy. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: one of those situations that makes it, to your point,
Speaker 1: makes it really hard for me to be optimistic about
Speaker 1: the state of things. Like they were just so cruelly
Speaker 1: discarded and used, and no amount of money can make
Speaker 1: up for what they went through, Like they should get
Speaker 1: all the money they deserve, all the money they should
Speaker 1: sue everybody. No amount of money will make up for
Speaker 1: what they have been through. Yeah, unless you have like
Speaker 1: a gigantic neuralizer from Men in Black and you can
Speaker 1: just aim it at the whole state of Georgia and
Speaker 1: be like, yo, look up in the sky real quickly.
Speaker 1: All right, girl, put your bejeweled hat back on, you
Speaker 1: do it? Ruby? Like that really would be the only way, truly.
Speaker 1: So we've talked about what Ruby and Shay went through,
Speaker 1: and next week on part two, we'll be looking at
Speaker 1: the major players who are behind the harassment campaign against them.
Speaker 1: Spoiler alert, Kanye West and r Kelly are like tangentially involved,
Speaker 1: and will also be looking at the wider impact that
Speaker 1: the normalization of attacks on election workers like Luby and
Speaker 1: Shay have for all of us. Internet Hate Machine is
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, check out our website cool zone media
Speaker 1: dot com, or find us on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.