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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. For

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Speaker 1: those of you new to the show, I interview musicians,

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Speaker 1: tech stars, business people and hope to give you some

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Speaker 1: entertainment and some education at the same time. For those

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Speaker 1: who've been listening for a year already, you know the drill.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is songwriter and performer extraordinary Carla Bonoff.

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Speaker 1: I normally don't give a huge intro, but I'm going

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Speaker 1: to it this case. How did we know the name

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Speaker 1: Carla Bonoff? She wrote songs on the Linda Ronstad album

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Speaker 1: Hastened Down the Wind, and I moved to l a permanently.

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Speaker 1: I was here a little bit before that, but permanently

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Speaker 1: in the summer of seventy six, and I used to

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Speaker 1: go to this record store which no longer exists, called

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Speaker 1: Grammy and Granny Records in Westwood and one of the

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Speaker 1: benefits of living in Los Angeles as you could buy

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Speaker 1: promo records people cash them in. This is what it was,

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Speaker 1: still vinyl before CD. I get a few tales about

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Speaker 1: selling my promo c d s. But in the bin

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Speaker 1: I saw Carla's debut album. Okay, I still have it

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Speaker 1: with the price stick around it because I kept all

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Speaker 1: my vinyl. It could have been it was either a

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Speaker 1: dollar ninety nine or two forty seven. And I came

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Speaker 1: home and I played it. I loved it so much.

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Speaker 1: I literally went back and bought all the copies and

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Speaker 1: gave them to my friends. And I can tell you

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Speaker 1: story after story about turning people on to the first album.

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Speaker 1: In any event, Carla, glad to have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. It's a privilege to be here. So how

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Speaker 1: did you get those tracks on the ron Stad album? Oh? Wow,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of history. I mean, that's what the

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Speaker 1: shows about. Well, it really goes back to Kenny Edwards. Okay,

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Speaker 1: tell my audience who Kenny Edwards was an incredible musician

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Speaker 1: and songwriter. But he began in the Stone Ponies with

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Speaker 1: Linda Ronstep. So when Linda came out from Tucson with

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Speaker 1: Bobby Kimmel and they got together with Kenny and they

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Speaker 1: formed that band. So I met Kenny right after the

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Speaker 1: Stone Ponies broke up and we started our own band

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Speaker 1: with Wendy Waldman and myself and Andrew gold Um called Brindle.

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Speaker 1: So we got signed to A and M. We made

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Speaker 1: a record they dropped us, which fell apart, and Kenny

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Speaker 1: and Andrew went back and started playing in Linda's band.

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Speaker 1: Right about the time she was really hitting it big

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Speaker 1: with that heart like a will. So Kenny would go

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Speaker 1: off on these tours and I would I was writing,

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Speaker 1: and I would give him cassettes and you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe just put this in Linda's person Um, nothing would

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Speaker 1: ever happened really with it. And then when one day

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Speaker 1: called me up, he goes. You know, I decided maybe

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Speaker 1: if I just picked up a guitar and played the

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Speaker 1: song for her myself, um, and she would hear it,

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Speaker 1: and he did, added a sound check, he played her

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Speaker 1: Lose Again and she totally loved it, and they learned

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Speaker 1: it right there and it was in the show. And

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Speaker 1: so they came back to play the universal lamphitheater. She

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Speaker 1: was playing like twelve nights. That was the day before.

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Speaker 1: There was a roof before they down, and yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was a fun that was a fun run. But that's

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Speaker 1: when she started doing them. So that's lose Again, did three?

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Speaker 1: She did if He's Ever? So she was getting ready

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Speaker 1: to make the next record. I guess um hastened down

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Speaker 1: the wind. So then then she asked me if I

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Speaker 1: had more so. Then I just started, well, how about

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Speaker 1: this one? How about this one? So that's how it

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Speaker 1: ended up being three once I think her mind kind

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Speaker 1: of opened up to the idea. Then she then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden it was three. And it was kind

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Speaker 1: of weird for me because I was getting ready to

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Speaker 1: make my own record too. I didn't have a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of other songs. Those are my good songs, so

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Speaker 1: we can talk about that. But I ended up recording

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Speaker 1: them all those same three songs, right right, And I

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Speaker 1: think your versions are much better. Usually the person who

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Speaker 1: wrote the song add something extra that someone does not.

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Speaker 1: But without making it about Ronstad, how did you feel,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a totally different era. There are

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Speaker 1: many fewer records out. Linda Ronstadt one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: acts in the country, and she's going to record your tracks.

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Speaker 1: In an addition, you're gonna get paid. So what was

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Speaker 1: going on in your brain? Well, I mean it was

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Speaker 1: huge for me because I'd been, you know, playing with

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Speaker 1: my sister and playing in Brindle and playing the troubadour,

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Speaker 1: and I mean I've been out there for ten years really,

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Speaker 1: from the time I was fifteen till maybe twenty five.

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Speaker 1: When this happened just you know, not going to college,

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Speaker 1: trying to make a living. So it was like an

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Speaker 1: overnight for me, like three songs on that album. You're right,

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Speaker 1: I mean not only the recognition, but the fact that

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Speaker 1: I would suddenly probably make like a serious amount of

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Speaker 1: money from Okay, So how long did it take to

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Speaker 1: see a check after the album came out? Trying to

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Speaker 1: remember it takes a while, I know, That's why I'm

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Speaker 1: asked you. Yeah, probably a year. Okay. So when the

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Speaker 1: money came in, did you treat yourself to anything? Well,

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Speaker 1: I actually had a business manager who was also Linda's

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Speaker 1: business manager, and he said to me, you you need

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Speaker 1: to either buy a house or invest your money or

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Speaker 1: do something because otherwise Uncle Sam's just gonna take it.

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Speaker 1: And he was a great business manager. And so I

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Speaker 1: bought my first house, which I lived in for twenty

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Speaker 1: one years. So where was that house in the Hollywood Hills? Okay?

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Speaker 1: And now you live in Santa Barbara. I think that's

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Speaker 1: a well known fact. We're not going to give the street. Um,

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Speaker 1: did you move from Hollywood Santa Barbara? Was there some

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Speaker 1: place in between? Now? I moved straight from twenty one

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Speaker 1: years in the Hollywood Hills to Santa Barbara. What was

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Speaker 1: the decision there? The decision, I think was the fact

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Speaker 1: that A the music business was not really you know,

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Speaker 1: centered here, and I was touring mostly, and I realized

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Speaker 1: I can't fly from anywhere. I don't have to live

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Speaker 1: here to go on the road. And I think also

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Speaker 1: the traffic had gotten so bad that I wasn't leaving

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Speaker 1: my house. I was stuck in my house except for

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Speaker 1: maybe these these hours between eleven and one where you

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Speaker 1: could go out. And and I just went, why am

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Speaker 1: I doing this? I don't need to live here. I

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Speaker 1: don't have a job here. Um, And I was tired.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm born and raised here. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: live somewhere different, never lived. So how many years ago

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Speaker 1: did you move to bar Twenty years ago? Now? Okay,

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Speaker 1: and that worked for you. You were glad about the position.

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Speaker 1: I wish I'd done it sooner. Okay, let's go back

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Speaker 1: to the beginning. You're born and raised here where West

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Speaker 1: l A West? I mean for those of us, I

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Speaker 1: literally live in West l A. So we're in West

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Speaker 1: l A right New u c. L A. On a

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Speaker 1: street called Warner Avenue. Okay, I don't I can't I

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Speaker 1: know the street. Where is that? You know, we're a

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Speaker 1: Hillgard Avenue of course, so it's Hillgard comes down to Wilshire,

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Speaker 1: it turns kind of into Warner exactly for those people

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Speaker 1: don't know. It just really right up beside U C.

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Speaker 1: L A. So in Westwood, which, of course, in the

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Speaker 1: seventies was the hippest place in l A. And I

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Speaker 1: was a ghost top really well. When my parents bought

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Speaker 1: this house in the you know, in the fifties or forties. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was a little college town. It was

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Speaker 1: a sleeping college town. You know, they wanted to live

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Speaker 1: there because it was quiet. Okay, let's stay there. Your

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Speaker 1: parents or your father did what for a living? My

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Speaker 1: father was a radiologist, okay, and so was my grandfather.

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Speaker 1: My grandfather, Um, was the first radiologist in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: actually first radio has doctors didn't specialize then, they were

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Speaker 1: general practitioners. So he went to USC and and actually

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Speaker 1: specialized in being a radiologist. This is your grandfather, my grandfather,

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Speaker 1: and and your father followed in his footsteps. And okay,

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Speaker 1: so it's married to your mother. Did your parents stay married? Yeah? Okay?

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Speaker 1: And how many kids too? I have an older sister,

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Speaker 1: an older sister, what's she up to or what it

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Speaker 1: was her life about? Um? She and I played music

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Speaker 1: together a lot and starting as teenagers. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: she decided she didn't really like it that much, so

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Speaker 1: she went back to school and got a PhD at

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Speaker 1: U c l A. And what in history of religions?

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Speaker 1: And what was your career if if there was one

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Speaker 1: after the PPD ended up teaching college. Okay, so you're there.

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Speaker 1: And did your parents make you take piano lessons? And yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: every young Jewish kid has certainly did. So what age

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Speaker 1: did you start at? Young? Like five six seven? We

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Speaker 1: had a very strict Russian piano teacher and that was

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Speaker 1: your parents idea, not your idea, okay? And did you practice? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I did, but it was she expected a lot like

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Speaker 1: two three hours of practicing reading music, And so I

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Speaker 1: developed a definite distaste for it, and and finally rebelled

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Speaker 1: and went, I don't want to do this anymore. After

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Speaker 1: how many years, after three or four? I think by

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Speaker 1: the time I was eight or nine, I was no,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. And did you give

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Speaker 1: up music completely playing music at that point? No? I

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Speaker 1: played clarinet in school. Yeah, and like yeah, in sixth

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Speaker 1: grade orchestra. Do you think you could still play it?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, okay, sexually. And when you go to

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Speaker 1: school where? I went to school at University Elementary School,

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Speaker 1: which was part of u c l A, which was

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Speaker 1: kind of an experimental grammar school, very liberal arts oriented,

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Speaker 1: lots of music and art. Um. I love that. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's on the campus of u c l A. Really,

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Speaker 1: And then I went into public school, which was horrible

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Speaker 1: from where where was high school? University High School right

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Speaker 1: in West l A, where a lot of musicians actually

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Speaker 1: went both before and after you. Okay, so you're in

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Speaker 1: your house now. It's hard for me to view this

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Speaker 1: through the eyes of a woman, But in my era

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Speaker 1: were very similar ages. Um, you got a transistor radio, okay,

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Speaker 1: which was a really big deal. And when you were

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Speaker 1: a boy, you listened to sports first. So were you

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Speaker 1: a radio listener? Were you addicted in that way? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I remember having that transistor radio and listening to kf

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Speaker 1: W B B Mitchell read. But B Mitchell Read late

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Speaker 1: at night would play things like the Stone Ponies. That's

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Speaker 1: where I was hearing music like that. Okay, But what

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Speaker 1: you're I mean, let's let's go back before when the

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Speaker 1: Beatles hit in sixty four. Are you listening to the radio.

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Speaker 1: Are you up on popular music? Or is that a

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Speaker 1: turning point? Oh? Yeah, I was listening to all of it. Basically,

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Speaker 1: Beatles and Motown on transistor radio was a k h J.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember definitely, But before that, because they're

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Speaker 1: really was Beatlemania where a beat you a big music

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Speaker 1: popular music fan. Well, I'm trying to place my years,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, what would what would have been before that?

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Speaker 1: I think, well, that was like the Four Seasons, the

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Speaker 1: Beach Boys. Yeah, I mean whatever was on the radio,

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Speaker 1: we were absorbing. So you were definitely hooked on the radio.

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Speaker 1: And at what point does it cross your mind, WHOA,

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Speaker 1: I want to do this for a living? Well, see

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Speaker 1: that's a guitar lessons and that kind of well a

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Speaker 1: little bit slower, right. You gave up the piano after throw,

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Speaker 1: I gave a piano. I played violin and clarinet, and

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Speaker 1: I finally picked up a nylon string. That's how it

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Speaker 1: all started, a harmony nylon string from Westwood Music, and um,

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Speaker 1: you know it just sort of rang about for me.

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Speaker 1: I got that and so when in this history because

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Speaker 1: we had a nylon string guitar in the house that

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Speaker 1: we didn't play during the folk era prior to the Beatles,

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Speaker 1: and then after the Beatles we started playing that and

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Speaker 1: then went to electrics whatever. So did you get your

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Speaker 1: folk guitar to play Beatles songs? Or we were playing

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Speaker 1: you know, we were playing folk music, folk music, Train

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Speaker 1: Puff the Magic Dragon right right right. It was Peter

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Speaker 1: Paul and Mary was sort of early music. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: five Miles and all that other stuff. So you got

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Speaker 1: the guitar from Westwood Music? Howd you learn how to

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Speaker 1: play it? I ha got guitar lessons, but I taught

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Speaker 1: myself a lot by ear. I remember just having the

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Speaker 1: turntable and like putting on the Peter Paul and Mary

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Speaker 1: record and just you know, learning how to play it.

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Speaker 1: I just could figure it out. Okay. At this point,

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Speaker 1: do you feel okay? You said you played music with

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Speaker 1: your sister. Was she playing the guitar too? We were

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Speaker 1: both playing Okay. But outside of the house where you

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Speaker 1: had did you have a lot of friends who were

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Speaker 1: also into playing music? No? No, this was my I

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Speaker 1: would just get my school work done and then go

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Speaker 1: into my own head and that was my escape. So

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Speaker 1: so you were really dedicated. You would really sit there

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Speaker 1: with the records, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. It was the only

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Speaker 1: thing that held my attention really, and maybe because public

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Speaker 1: school was so bad, we didn't have great teachers. But

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Speaker 1: and then I was fortunate enough I kind of outgrew

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Speaker 1: this guitar teacher. I had Prayabe when I was thirteen

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Speaker 1: or fourteen, and she said, I don't think I can

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Speaker 1: teach you anything else. I think you need to go

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Speaker 1: to the fellow that taught me. Who was this guy

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Speaker 1: Frank Hamilton's. It was in the Weavers and taught right

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Speaker 1: around the corner from here. Were in downtown Hollywood now

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Speaker 1: Barney Kestle's Music World, which is at the Yucca and

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Speaker 1: Vine Street I heard about. I've never been there before

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Speaker 1: my time. L It was a music store and then

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Speaker 1: little cubicles with guitar teachers. So Frank, of course was

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Speaker 1: just what an amazing talent. And you talk about learning

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Speaker 1: the real folk music, you know, he was teaching me

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Speaker 1: those arrangements from the Weavers. That's where I learned the

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Speaker 1: waters wide and Okay, so you govern the guitar lesson

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Speaker 1: traditionally half an hour you call them. You really practice.

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Speaker 1: This was your thing, okay, and at what point a

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Speaker 1: do you think, well, this could be a career path.

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Speaker 1: You know, what happened was I started I don't know why,

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Speaker 1: I just started writing melodies and music. I wasn't writing lyrics.

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Speaker 1: My sister was really into poetry, so and we were

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Speaker 1: both playing acoustic guitar. So we decided, I think this

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Speaker 1: was right about when Joni Mitchell's first came, right that

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Speaker 1: we wanted to make music like that. So we started

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Speaker 1: trying to write songs like that. Okay. For those of

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Speaker 1: us who grew up outside of Los Angeles, California was

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Speaker 1: a dream. Okay. We had the Beach Boys, we had

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Speaker 1: all these other things. We watched all the shows made

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Speaker 1: in southern California. Now, were you here realizing that you

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Speaker 1: were at the epicenter of the scene, that the acts

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Speaker 1: were in Laurel Canyon and you go see in the clubs, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you're in the middle of it, you

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Speaker 1: don't you don't see that. Of course, looking back now,

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Speaker 1: it's like insane when I think about all the music

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Speaker 1: I could go here, and what was happening at the

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Speaker 1: troubudaor I mean, it's crazy that we could see Joni

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Speaker 1: Mitchell play for two weeks, two sets at night in

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Speaker 1: the Tribute or a hundred and fifty people in there.

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Speaker 1: But I mean it never occurred to me. What's it

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Speaker 1: like growing up in somewhere in Michigan. I had no idea. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're playing guitar with your sister. At what point

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Speaker 1: do you start going out to hear in music? Well,

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Speaker 1: we were already going out to hear music. I mean

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Speaker 1: we were going to the Tributor every chance we could

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Speaker 1: get to. Okay, people, this was now you had to

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Speaker 1: driver's license or how did you get that? She did?

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Speaker 1: She would drive us. Okay, So you would go to

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Speaker 1: the Troubadoor. Where else would you go? We went to

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Speaker 1: the Tribuador God. We would go to the Santa Monica Civic.

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Speaker 1: They were concerts there. There was this um place called

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Speaker 1: the Valley Music Theater that turned into a Jehovah's Witnesses

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Speaker 1: that had like we see the Doors and Jefferson Airplane. There.

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Speaker 1: There was a place that Cheetah on the Venice Pier

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Speaker 1: that had like the same kind of acts. Um the

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Speaker 1: Hullabaloo here in Hollywood. UM had a revolving stage that

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Speaker 1: would go around and they would switch the band so

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Speaker 1: it'd be like Neil Diamond and then the stage would turn.

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Speaker 1: It would be Iron Butterfly, and then the stage would

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Speaker 1: turn and it would be UM the Sunshine Company. I

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Speaker 1: mean all those groups. And okay, so you went with

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Speaker 1: your sister, But was there a whole group of girls

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Speaker 1: who would go with these shows that you would know

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Speaker 1: or just the two of you? It was just us,

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Speaker 1: but we met people. We met other people like in

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Speaker 1: the Troubadour who were doing the same thing we were doing.

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Speaker 1: And there were a lot of people on those Monday nights. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well from my audience talked about Monday night. UM. During

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Speaker 1: the week the Troubador had national acts like James Taylor,

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Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell. Earlier than that, we went to see people

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Speaker 1: like Joe and Eddie and Buffy st re right right right,

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Speaker 1: you know, Um Joe and Eddio from Toronto. Bob ezbrind

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Speaker 1: goes on to me all the time I had had

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Speaker 1: a dial them up on the internet. I've never even

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Speaker 1: heard of them. Yeah, so there were acts like that.

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Speaker 1: I remember Tim Buckley was of course one of the

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Speaker 1: great albums. Yeah, and Robert Klein would open for Tim Buckley.

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Speaker 1: Really they always would have comedians. So I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: think of all the people we would go see everything

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Speaker 1: that was happening there. Um. So you're in terms of money,

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Speaker 1: you're in my family. If it was had to do

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Speaker 1: with the arts, there was unlimited money. And in terms

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Speaker 1: of going to the show, where did the money come from?

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Speaker 1: Your allowance or your parents? Dug into the roll and

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Speaker 1: thought about that. I guess it wasn't expensive to go

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Speaker 1: to the True Door. It probably was like six dollars

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Speaker 1: or five dollars to get in there. I think we

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Speaker 1: never had any trouble getting in there. Okay, so it's

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Speaker 1: Monday night is hoot night. Monday night was whot night. Um.

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Speaker 1: And maybe there were four or five slots in that

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Speaker 1: you could get on, just to be clear, because I

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Speaker 1: was this is before my time, so there were only

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Speaker 1: four or five acts a night. Well, I think that

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Speaker 1: the record companies maybe would put acts on for just

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Speaker 1: those of us who were connected to anything there. The

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Speaker 1: way you had to do it was you had to

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Speaker 1: line up at the box office, um, and wait for

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Speaker 1: them to open the window and then if you were

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Speaker 1: one of the first four to sign up, you could

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Speaker 1: get on. So I would literally cut school. I would

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Speaker 1: climb over the fence at Uni, go to the troubador

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Speaker 1: and then sit there in that little alcove in the

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Speaker 1: window and and get my sister and I on to

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Speaker 1: that thing, you know. And it was terrifying. I was

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00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,400
Speaker 1: so afraid doing them. But I mean, Jackson Brown would

341
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,159
Speaker 1: be doing them more every now and then somebody like

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Speaker 1: Neil Young would just come and doing for fun. I mean.

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Speaker 1: And in those days that the you know, the bar

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Speaker 1: was on the inside and record company people were there,

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Speaker 1: and it was scary because a lot of people would

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Speaker 1: see you. Okay, so do you remember what year you

347
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:09,360
Speaker 1: first appeared? Um? I was sixteen, so probably, um, sixty

348
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 1: nine maybe, Okay, so you're there. Are you any good

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Speaker 1: the first time? I don't think so. I mean, I

350
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,879
Speaker 1: think my sister and I had some promise we could play,

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Speaker 1: and I think I was writing some interesting music, but um,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't singing well and we were very young. Really,

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Speaker 1: you would you bill yourself as the daughters of Chester

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Speaker 1: p What does that mean? My dad was Chester Paul

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Speaker 1: bon Off. So we came up with that name for

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00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: because Lisa and Carlos seemed stupid. So okay, so how

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Speaker 1: many times do you do that? At the Troubadoor? We

358
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: did them a lot. We also went down to Pasadena

359
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: and did the ice House. We did that. There was

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Speaker 1: a little restaurant in Santa Monica called the Attica. We

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00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,959
Speaker 1: would get up and play there. Um. One of our

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00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 1: very first I told the story the other night um

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00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: jobs that we got was at this club called Artie

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Speaker 1: Fat Buckles, which was at Sunset and Gardener, down some

365
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 1: little steps and we got hired. And the people that

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Speaker 1: hired us said, you'll be opening for these two guys.

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Speaker 1: Their name is Long Branch Penny was and we were

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Speaker 1: like who Um, So we walking in there was JD. Southern,

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Speaker 1: Glenn Fry twenty three and nineteen. Now you're there and

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Speaker 1: you're having these Are you I hate to use the

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00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: modern term, but I will anyway. Are you networking with people?

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Speaker 1: Are you saying are you just waiting for things to

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Speaker 1: come to you? I don't think anybody was thinking I wasn't.

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Speaker 1: We were just excited to be playing there, and I

375
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Speaker 1: think to be just in the environment. Um. When Jackson

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Speaker 1: would get up and play a new song. It would

377
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Speaker 1: just be amazing to me. I mean, I don't think

378
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Speaker 1: I was really thinking about getting a record del yet.

379
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 1: I was just feeling whether that could be something I

380
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: could actually do. Um. We did ultimately make a demo

381
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: for Electra. I still have a coffee of it. It's

382
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 1: pretty My sister and I did. We got um. I

383
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Speaker 1: went to school with Jim Densmore, who was John Densmore's

384
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Speaker 1: younger brother, and some have the Doors of the Doors.

385
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Speaker 1: John got us an audition UM with David Andrew Ley. Yes,

386
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: so we went in and they had us go in

387
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Speaker 1: the studio and play our repertoire live just you know.

388
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 1: So I actually have a tape of us playing that

389
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: and laughing and being embarrassed. And we didn't get signed.

390
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 1: But what do you remember what they said to not

391
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,679
Speaker 1: make a deal. He said that we needed to remember this,

392
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 1: that we were too young and we needed to go

393
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 1: out and live a little, and we were just we

394
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: were horrified. Okay, now what comes to time to go

395
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: to college and you come from a family of radiologists,

396
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: how does that go down? Not? Well? Not well? Um,

397
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: they just said to me, we would like you to

398
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 1: try to at least go. I got into u c

399
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: l A. Um, go to college just for one semester, okay,

400
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: but when did you decide you weren't going well, I didn't.

401
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: I mean at this when we lost a little time here. Actually,

402
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 1: my sister and I broke up because she wanted to

403
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 1: go back to school. So I met Kenny Edwards. How um,

404
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: how I had my sister. Oh, here's how it happened.

405
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: My sister and I decided we wanted to do transcendental meditation.

406
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Speaker 1: So they had a big meeting at Royce Hall at

407
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: u c l A. And it was a meeting to

408
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: sort of learn about going up to Squaw Valley for

409
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: a month with Marishi. So my sister and I went

410
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: to this and I remember spotting this really handsome, tall

411
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: guy walking up the aisle and I realized it was

412
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 1: that's Kenny Edwards of the Stone Ponies. I mean to me,

413
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 1: he was a rock star of course, of course, and um,

414
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: so that's how I met Kenny. Actually I did go

415
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 1: to Squaw Valley and I well a little bit slower, right.

416
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: So now you're at Royce, Saul, do you go up

417
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: and introduce yourself? Now I didn't there but my sister

418
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 1: and I signed up to go to this month long

419
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: course with the Maharishi at Squaw Valley. I was sixteen

420
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: or seventeen, she was nineteen. What did your parents say?

421
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: They let us go? I'm sure quite why? And so

422
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: you were there? How many people were in Squaw Valley

423
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,360
Speaker 1: people and Kenny was one of them. And I spotted

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00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 1: Kenny and I had my Martin guitar and I followed

425
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: him around and convinced him that I could play the

426
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: guitar as well as Joni Mitchell. So was he giving?

427
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,239
Speaker 1: Was he giving you the time of day? You know,

428
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: he had just gotten out of the Stone Ponies, and

429
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: I think he really wanted to focus on his spirituality

430
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 1: and he was not really I don't know. He wasn't

431
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: focused on me at least not at that point. But

432
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: ultimately there was a romance with Kenny. How much longer

433
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: after you meet him? Does? Um? He went off to

434
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: India because he was really deep. He was deep into

435
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: it and he wanted to become a teacher. So he

436
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: went off to India. But when he came back, um,

437
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: somehow we got together and he knew Wendy Waldman and

438
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: Andrew Gold from another. I can't even remember how he

439
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: knew them, but we all got together and decided to

440
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: form a group. So our romance began and our group

441
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: Brindle began, probably Candle, Oh God, Andrew thought up the

442
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: name and he spelled it with a y because he

443
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: was such a Birds fan. So we just went, Okay,

444
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: that sounds good. So it's got nothing to do with

445
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: those dogs that are different colors, striped whatever. Okay, so

446
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: you're forming a band because everybody's hanging out or you saying,

447
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: we're going to form a band and we're going to

448
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: get a deal and we're gonna make it. We were

449
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: serious at that point. We wanted to get a deal

450
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: and we wanted to make it, and we did get

451
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: a deal. Okay, But before that, when did you decide

452
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: you didn't want to go to college. I think at

453
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: that point, um, it was just becoming obvious to me.

454
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: I went for one summer quarter and got seasoned D's

455
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: and I was already so deeply in the music business

456
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: at that point. Um. No, my parents were not happy

457
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: about it, but I think I was lucky I found

458
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do, you know, And Okay, so

459
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: you could at what point did you move out of

460
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: the house when I was about eighteen, and what we

461
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: you know, you're a musician. How you paying the rent?

462
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: How did we pay that? I moved in with Kenny

463
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: and in a house that Andrew also lived in, and

464
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: we rehearsed there and started our band. And so your parents,

465
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: I'm down on this totally. In fact, they were like,

466
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,719
Speaker 1: if you're going to go do that, then leave your

467
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: car here and we're not giving you anything. Um. I

468
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: think they thought I would just turn around and come

469
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: right back. But I'm not quite sure how we survived.

470
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: It was just amazing. We didn't need a lot of

471
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: money then, right, that's differently, you can't make it a

472
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: minimum wage today, whatever your money. We could ran a

473
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: big house for two hundred dollars a month for all

474
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: of us. And where was that house? Somewhere in West Ally. Yeah, okay,

475
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: so you're living in the house. You form the group,

476
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: so everybody in the group is living there. Wendy was

477
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: not living there because she was living into Panka Canyon

478
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: because she was married. So we three of us were

479
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: living there, but Wendy would come there. And how long

480
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: after you formed the band did you get your deal

481
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: with a and M. Somehow Wendy had met Chuck Plotkin.

482
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how she met Chuck, but Chuck got

483
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 1: interested in us, and then he got us to deal

484
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: at Day and M. And you made a complete record

485
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: that didn't come out. We did. We made a record

486
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: with Chuck and UM Chad Stuart producing, And what was

487
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: the rationale for not releasing it? You know, I don't

488
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: think they got us. We were two girls and two

489
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 1: guys writing songs. This is before Fleetwood Mac. It's just maybe,

490
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it really wasn't anything like that. I think

491
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: we're on the wrong label. They had the Carpenters, they

492
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: had UM, but they had Joe Cocker and Peter Frampton. Yeah.

493
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: I think it was two things. I think they didn't

494
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: understand what we were trying to do and we weren't

495
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: really that great yet. I think we needed to make

496
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: another record. Okay, so the record, even you would own

497
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: that the record was not I think Wendy was the

498
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,719
Speaker 1: closest to being ready to make the record. Um. I

499
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: think that it was a little disjointed. Um okay, so

500
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: now the records rejected. Does the band girl really break up?

501
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: Not right away. We ended up going and playing a

502
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: Top forty bar out by the airport called the Carolina Lanes,

503
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: which was a nude room, a bowling alley, a rock

504
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: and roll basically a biker bar, rock and roll club.

505
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: Five sets a night like Top forty, and then we

506
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: would intersperse our Brindle songs in there. Wednesday night was

507
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: hot pants night. Okay, so what you do on Wendy

508
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: were hot pants? How about you? I don't think I

509
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: could do it. But the cool thing about that was

510
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: I had to play a lot. I learned to get

511
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: strong as a player because we had to play all

512
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: these Rolling Stones tunes and Carol King tunes, and so

513
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: I had to learn all this stuff and play all

514
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: the keyboard parts. And I mean it really actually was

515
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: good for all of us. I think, um just getting

516
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: strong as a musician, being able to play that much.

517
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: So how long does that gig last? It didn't last

518
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: very long because I think ultimately Linda had guys go

519
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: and play out in her band, and for us that

520
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: was like, you know, and Wendy got signed to Warner Brothers,

521
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: so it kind of fell apart. They went and worked

522
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: for Linda. I mean, Kenny was making nine dollars a week,

523
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: which was like, oh my god, we started saving money. Okay,

524
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: but you were suddenly the odd person out. You didn't

525
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: have a solo deal and you weren't with Linda. I

526
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: would think that was would be depressing. Well I was.

527
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: I was Kenny's girlfriend. So for me, what was interesting

528
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: about that time when I got to go out on

529
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: the road a lot and kind of watch Linda and

530
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: learn from Linda, see what it was like to be

531
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: on the road beyond the bus. And you know, she

532
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: really taught me a lot just watching what she had

533
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: to go through, just watching her do her makeup, watching

534
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: her figure out what to wear. So you're on the

535
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: road with your boyfriend and Linda and you're learning all

536
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: these lessons from Linda. Yeah, and how long does that

537
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: go on? I mean I didn't do it all the time,

538
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: but I you know, I would do it on and off.

539
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: And I mean it was really exciting. She was really

540
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: gigantic star. Yeah and so and it was I remember

541
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: when they when Kenyan Andrews first started going out with her,

542
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: they were sharing a room. I mean, so they really

543
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: started right at that base of things. And when they

544
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: came back and made the record that had You're No

545
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: Good and all that stuff on it. That was really

546
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: the big record for her. But they had learned all

547
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: that stuff on the road and then I mean, I

548
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: remember when they were flying on the Concorde and I think,

549
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: caviare you know? So it changed changed, right, It's almost

550
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: hard to comprehend. But okay, you're on the road some

551
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: now you're at home, you're writing songs. Yeah. At that

552
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: point I really just had, you know, to figure out

553
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: what I was going to do. So I just kept

554
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: trying to get better as a writer. And how did

555
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: you get your deal with Columbia. I actually got my

556
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: deal playing a Monday night at the Troube door. Um

557
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: I started doing those alone. UM Norman Epstein was managing

558
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: me and trying to get me gigs wherever we could,

559
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: but we would still do those Monday nights and UM

560
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: I played one of those. I think Linda had already

561
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: decided to do a couple of songs and I was

562
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: at the Tributor and this fellow, Peter Philbin came up

563
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: to the dressing room and said, I just want to

564
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: congratulate you. I love your music. I'm sure you're signed

565
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: to Asylum or whatever, and and we was like, no,

566
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: we're not signed. So he had just come out to

567
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: be an an or guy. He had not signed anybody.

568
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: He was brand new. So he brought me to Columbia.

569
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: But it was a long road because, um, I don't

570
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 1: think they trusted him a because he was new. So

571
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: they made me go to New York to the big

572
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: black Rock building and actually audition and for all of

573
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: the all of the people, like in one of those rooms,

574
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: one of those conference rooms with an upright piano. And

575
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: I've never been to New York, and I mean it

576
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: was terrifying. I remember I was staying in this hotel

577
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: and I woke up. We got there at night and

578
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: I looked back to the window and I went, why

579
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: is it so dark out there? There's nothing out there.

580
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: I didn't have any idea. I was looking at Central Park.

581
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, in the morning, I had to go his

582
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: conference room with I was like Bruce lun Ball and

583
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: all those people, Yeah, and just play like on the

584
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: stupid piano and played the guitar, had a little dressed on,

585
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: and I remember they just thanked me and we left.

586
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: And then that night Peter took us to dinner and

587
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: I said, well, have you heard anythings like no, and

588
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: still nothing. Nothing. The next morning, nothing and I went, okay,

589
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm getting out of here, and I just I think

590
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: I met up with Kenny on the road and it

591
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: was like a couple of days and then finally my

592
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: manager call and they said, well, they've decided to saw you.

593
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: You must have been elated. I was. And we were

594
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: also talking to Clive Davis too, so I can't remember

595
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: the time frame of that. But I also had to

596
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: go to the Beverly Hills Hotel to the bungalow and

597
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,479
Speaker 1: play for Clive on the piano, and I think we

598
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: were balancing both of those. Thank God, you didn't sign

599
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: with Clive. Well, you know, I didn't sign with Clive

600
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: because I remember I played him someone to lay down

601
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: beside me, which was something I knew even then I

602
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: was really proud of. And he started trying to rewrite

603
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: it exactly and I said to Norman, I said, you

604
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: know what, I can't do that, you know, because that's

605
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: what's going to happen, like with everything. Um, so that's

606
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: why we didn't do that. Okay. So one of the

607
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: amazing things is about about your music is the insightful lyrics.

608
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: Let's start with someone to lay down beside me even

609
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 1: though it's not real, okay, which is the line? How

610
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: did you come up with that? I don't know, I

611
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: really don't know. I wrote the music first, and I

612
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: had the music for a long time, and I knew

613
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: that was that it was good, and I just couldn't

614
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: come up with any lyrics. And one night, I don't know,

615
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 1: I watched a TV show and I was just walking

616
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: around and I just sat down and it came out.

617
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: So it was one of the things very fast once

618
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: you were in the mood right, and of the tracks

619
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: on the first album where they all done that fast

620
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: when the time came, or were some eatd out over time.

621
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: The you know the way what would happen for me

622
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: is I wouldn't write very much, but when I would write,

623
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: it would happen fast. Um, so you were waiting for

624
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: inspiration to hit you. Yeah, And lyrics were always hard

625
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: for me. I could write are so phenomenal. I mean,

626
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: you know, if he's ever near, they say just once

627
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: in life you find someone right that's right, but love

628
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: so hard to find in this state of mind. I

629
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 1: hope I'll know if he's ever hear there's so much wisdom.

630
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm quoting off the top of my head

631
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: forty year old lyrics and becau as they mean that

632
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: much to me. So I'm wondering, you know, the process

633
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: of coming up with that. Maybe it's quick, but what

634
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: kind of space are you in to have so much insight?

635
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: You know? It's mischief. You know when I look back

636
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: on being twenty three or four or however old I

637
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: was when I wrote those things, and I don't think

638
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: I was all that. I think it was very subconscious

639
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: and just stream of conscious. I wasn't really thinking about it.

640
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: It was just I think I was accessing just some

641
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: part of my brain that was pure and insightful. Well

642
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: that's one of the fascinating things about all these musicians.

643
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: You know, we laugh at teenager musicians at this point,

644
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: but a lot of the people were very young, certainly

645
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: Jackson Brown when he started writing whatever. And I can

646
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: listen to some of those records now in my sixties

647
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: and they finally understand them, okay, having lived all this time,

648
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: and I say, how did these people come up with

649
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: this in sight? Like at that age? He wrote these

650
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: days when he was sixteen, So how does that happen?

651
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: I mean, that's mysterious to me because obviously it's sixteen.

652
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: What could he know right exactly? But even you, I mean,

653
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: you're talking about in terms of relationships. Um, you know

654
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: Rose in the garden. You know, about having a relationship

655
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: and sometimes you have to let them go that you

656
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: know that didn't come from something in your life or

657
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: something I was trying to remember that, you know, I

658
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: think so, I mean, I think, Um, I don't know,

659
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, that first batch of songs for me just came.

660
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: I felt like they were a gift. It just kind

661
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: of came to me from, you know, some other wonderful place.

662
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: You know. I still feel like that. I don't know,

663
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I was never able to go

664
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to write a song about this,

665
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: or come up with a title like some people will

666
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: come up with a title and write a song. I

667
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: could never intellectualize about writing like that. And that's why

668
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: I think I'm not prolific, because I don't really know

669
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: how to. Yeah, but a couple of things, I mean,

670
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, isn't it always love that you know makes

671
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: you cry, breaks your heart, but you wouldn't have it

672
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: any other way. I mean, these are songs that really

673
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: helped me through things. I mean, you know there's some

674
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: Jackson Brown lines to like, uh, you know, well without

675
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: quoting those things at this particular point, this is not

676
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: the kind of wisdom you find on a Kelly Clarkson

677
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 1: are justin Bieber record. In addition, it's not the kind

678
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: of wisdom you found back then, which I believe is

679
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: one of the I mean, I remember, you know, I've

680
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: told people about that album. You know, in the nineties,

681
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: back in the days of a O. L Chat, people

682
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: said they're in the music as you gotta get this

683
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: record and I'm not doing it. The both smoke up

684
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: your ask. That's how much the record meant to me.

685
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: So I have to believe you may not be revealing it,

686
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: but beneath the surface you must be a study of humanity.

687
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 1: You must be a student of humanity or have insight

688
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: that the average person probably does not. Maybe, Okay, let's

689
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: let's stay with writing songs. Okay, your first album comes out. Okay,

690
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: you're riding the coattails of Linda having covered your songs.

691
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: So what's it like when your album finally comes out? Well,

692
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: it was interesting. Um, there was some confusion obviously, because

693
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,479
Speaker 1: Linda's album had come out like six months before mine,

694
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: and there were some similar musicians on the tracks too,

695
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: So um, I got a tour opening for Jackson. I

696
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: did a short club tour, and then I got a

697
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: tour opening for Jackson, and um, I had this moment

698
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: where I was playing the songs and realizing these people

699
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: think that I'm covering, of course, and it took me

700
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: about three or four nights to go, oh my god,

701
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to how people I wrote these

702
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: They don't know. UM. So that was kind of horrifying

703
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: in a way. So there was some of that confusion.

704
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: But once I once I talked a little and explained

705
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: to people, and they were really on my side and

706
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: it was actually pretty wonderful. UM. And people often asked

707
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: me like, are you sorry? You gave Linda your best songs?

708
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: But if I hadn't, I don't know, you know what,

709
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: people have noticed me as much. I mean, would my

710
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: have first album done as well? Would people have paid

711
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: attention to it? Maybe not? You know, so when you

712
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: went out on the road, you go out alone. No,

713
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: I had a band on that first tour. Yeah, okay,

714
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: so you okay, you do that with Jackson, what's the

715
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: next step. Well, I did a couple of tours with Jackson,

716
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: and then of course you're in that Columbia Records time

717
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: thing where it's like, well, you gotta make another record,

718
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: so you come back. It took me ten years to

719
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: make that first one. I'm on the road for the

720
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: first time, and then you come home and you want

721
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: to breathe, and they want you to make another record.

722
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: And I really had maybe one or two songs, and

723
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, you know, now I

724
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: have what six months to do this, So it was

725
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: pretty terrifying trying to you know, really then trying to

726
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: crank stuff out. I mean I did it, um, and

727
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: I had some help. Actually at the time, I was

728
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: dating Cameron Crowe and he was so young. He was

729
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: so much because I certainly know Cameron, I certainly know

730
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: Nancy Wilson and I don't, but I didn't know that

731
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: was part of your history. Well it was brief. But

732
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: he was so disciplined and so good about writing every day, um,

733
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: because I think he was working on fast times. Then

734
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: it was before that when that was becoming a book.

735
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: Um that he was such a good influence on me

736
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: because I was trying to write Restless Nights, and he

737
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 1: would write every day, and so I would write every day,

738
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: and um, I lived like a mile down the road

739
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: from him, and it really helped me focus and get

740
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: that record room. But let's stop just for one second.

741
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: How does it end with Kenny? Oh? How did it

742
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: end with Kenny? I don't know. It just kind of

743
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: fell apart, you know, the days of those days of

744
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: Hollywood and craziness and drugs and you know, it's just,

745
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, we were together for nine years and it

746
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: just kind of we were great friends, but we just are.

747
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: Romance kind of disappeared. So we stayed friends for up

748
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: until a day. Okay, So how do you meet Cameron Crowe?

749
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: I met Cameron Crowe at the Universal Amphitheater at probably

750
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: at one of Linda's shows. Outside um, I think he

751
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: introduced himself. He was still writing for Rolling Stone, right, Yeah,

752
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: So okay, you know these are the perks of being famous.

753
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: Any other perks of being famous? Oh god, I don't know.

754
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: You mean meeting people like that? Meeting people opportunities, you know,

755
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: once you're a known quantity, not that I don't know.

756
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you get into first class occasionally on

757
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: an airplane. That doesn't even happen anymore. Okay, So Cameron

758
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: is very disciplined. So your disciplined and you crank out

759
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: the album. Are you happy with the album? I was

760
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 1: happy with most of it. I mean some of it.

761
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: That album to me has the water is wide, it

762
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: has um only a fool it had. I'm trying to

763
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: think one of their songs were on that, But I

764
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 1: thought that was a pretty good album. It had trouble again,

765
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: um when you walk in the room the letter, So

766
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't you know. I think my first

767
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: album is still probably my best album. But for how

768
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: fast I had to crank that one out, I think

769
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: it was okay. Okay, Now being on the inside of

770
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: the belly of the beast, Um, what was the label's

771
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: reaction into what degree was that record successful in their

772
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: eyes and your eyes commercially? You know, it was always

773
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: so hard for me to tell what they thought. It

774
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: was such a big record company and there were so

775
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 1: many big artists Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson and other

776
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: things that they were focused on. I don't really ever

777
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: think that that I got the shot. Maybe that I

778
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: should have had. I think they tried. Um, it's hard

779
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: to say, you know. I mean I think the production maybe,

780
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know why there weren't more hits

781
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: on some of those things. I think, oh, baby don't

782
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: go with on that too. I think there were hit

783
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: songs on that album. Maybe we didn't produce them as hits.

784
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: I feel like there should have been hits. Um, And

785
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: is that record promotion? Is that the record itself? I

786
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: mean it's hard to hindsight when you try to look

787
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: at that and go, well, why couldn't they make Trouble

788
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: again it or Baby Don't go it? I mean, did

789
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: we not make the right record? I don't know. You

790
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: got to deliver a third album it was even harder. Yeah,

791
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: and then you they the so called work track was

792
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: a cover first, right. Um. Glenn Fry is the one

793
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: that played me personally. Um. I was at his house

794
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you know, Glenn had a

795
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: great collection of obscure R and B stuff, so um,

796
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: he played me the Jackie Moore version of that from

797
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: seventy seven or something, and I remember saying to him, Wow,

798
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: what a cool song. I'm surprised nobody's made that a hit.

799
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: And he said, yeah, I was thinking I should send

800
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: that to Bonnie Rate. I was like, wait just a

801
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: minute there. So, um, that's how that came about. Glenn

802
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: produced part of that album, and then he and I

803
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: had a falling out. Well that's good, he's just he's

804
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: so we could talk. What was the falling out about?

805
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: I never could quite figure it out. Um, Glenn was

806
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: an interesting person and volatile and um, you know, once

807
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: Glenn decided he was not into something, then he was done. Um.

808
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: I don't really think it was anything that you could

809
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: point to specific. But so Kenny Cannon came in and

810
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: took up the the last half of that and help

811
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: me make the rest of that record. So it was

812
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: it was a tough album for me, Okay, and then

813
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 1: that album comes out and you're back on the road

814
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: and what is it like? It was pretty fun actually,

815
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: because I had a really good band. I had Kenny

816
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: and Andrew in my band and Mike Bots on drums

817
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: and a young keyboard player, Michael Rouff on keyboards. So

818
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: we had a great band and did a lot of

819
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: fun shows. So and I had a hit record of

820
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: some sort. Um. I also got to go out and

821
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: open for James Taylor on a summer tour, which you know,

822
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: James is my hero. So being able to watch James

823
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: every night and open for James was that was a

824
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: treat for me. And okay, that's cycle Lens. Then you

825
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: don't make a record. What happens? What does Columbia say? Well,

826
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: that's when the ship kind of hit the fan for me,

827
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: because I think I came home from that and that

828
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: album and all the things that kind of happened, and

829
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: I just got really depressed. Um and actually, looking back now,

830
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: clinically depressed at that point in my life, I, Um,

831
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to make any more records. I

832
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 1: didn't want to do it. I didn't want to write, UM,

833
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: I didn't. I think I was confusing my personal happiness

834
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: with my professional happiness, Like why aren't I happy in

835
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 1: my personal life with you know, this success? And so

836
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: I kind of just rebelled against everything and I basically stopped,

837
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: you know, doing anything. So ultimately I got dropped by Columbia.

838
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: My manager left and went to work for a record label. UM,

839
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: so I had no record label, UM and I just

840
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: it took me a couple of years. I was in

841
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: a lot of therapy trying to get my life together. Um,

842
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: I learned that it takes medication to get out of

843
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: depression and really didn't exist then. Um. So, no matter

844
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: how much therapy I had, I couldn't seem to pull

845
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: myself out of that. And I didn't really come out

846
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: with prose Act till about eighty eight or nine, and

847
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: I finally I was at a therapist and she said

848
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: to me, you know, I said, look, I'm good. When

849
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: I leave here, I'm good for thirty minutes and then

850
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: I get home and it's just I'm right back there.

851
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: And she goes, you know, I think maybe you need

852
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: to be evaluator. And I went to somebody and they said,

853
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: I'm interested who you went to? Remember? Well, I went

854
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: towards psycho. Yeah yeah, but was he U c l A.

855
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: I went to somebody U c l A. We ultimately

856
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: got medical trouble. That's why his interest was the same.

857
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: They ask you all those questions, are you hopeless? Do

858
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: you know? Do you lose interest in things? And there

859
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: was a checklist then, um, and she said, well, I

860
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 1: think you need to be on some medication. I was like, fine,

861
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: just something and it was mind blowing to me. Within

862
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 1: three days of taking medication. I woke up and I went, oh,

863
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: my god, is this how normal people feel? Do you

864
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 1: remember what the medication was? It was prozac. I didn't

865
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: wake up with this feeling of like dread and hopelessness. Um,

866
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: when you wake up like that, you can't work, you

867
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: can't write, you can't create. Okay, so let's go back.

868
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 1: So do you still take prozac? No? Not anymore? How

869
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: long did you take it? For quite a while? I

870
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: mean I had, you know, probably ten fifteen years. And

871
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: how you decided to go off? I just started weaning

872
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: myself off of it, as it wasn't with a professional Yeah.

873
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: I think that once my life got back together and

874
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: things started to turn around again and I felt pretty

875
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: good and just I just experimented with it and I

876
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: was able to to stay off of it. Other people

877
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: my family and not the case. I think it's very genetic.

878
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 1: My mother was very depressed. My grandmother apparently couldn't get

879
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: out of bed and dress herself. I hear those things

880
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,479
Speaker 1: about my great grandmother, So I think it's passed down

881
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: through the maternal side of my family. Um, I watched

882
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: my mother, I mean, as a kid, certainly going through it.

883
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: So I'm lucky that there was something for me and

884
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: I was able to kind of get what about your sister,

885
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: same thing for her? And so, but if you look

886
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 1: at it externally, if you live in Santa Barbara and

887
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: you live alone, Yeah, you live alone, that sounds like

888
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: it could be depressing. Yeah. Well, but I mean I stopped.

889
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: I stopped taking medication along before I moved up there. Okay,

890
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 1: but I'm just talking about what I guess I should

891
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: ask a question. Since you stopped taking the medication, do

892
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: you have episodes of depression. I've had one or two,

893
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,959
Speaker 1: but they're really more about something specific, which is man

894
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: to Jamal, not this other kind of low grade thing

895
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: that you have no reason for having. Let's do not functional,

896
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: let's go back. Okay. So, but at the time you've

897
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: been on the road, everything was not perfect when you

898
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 1: started to sink into this depression. So do you think

899
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: the triggers were there? Yeah? I think that I wanted

900
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: a personal life too. I want to be happy, I

901
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: want to be in a relationship. I wanted all this

902
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: other stuff and I didn't have any of that. It

903
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: seemed like I had this music thing, and maybe I

904
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 1: was confused about what I thought that would bring to me,

905
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: and I think that was the ugly realization, which is

906
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in that. I mean, you know yours,

907
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 1: but generally speaking, I find that a lot of acts,

908
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:55,240
Speaker 1: you know, are not whole emotionally, and they ultimately believe that,

909
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 1: you know, music will save them, and when the music

910
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: can't save him anymore, they can't write it other hit record.

911
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: Now that is not your case. You ultimately wrote great

912
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: stuff off that, But I find that a lot of

913
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: time people say, well, how come they can't write anywhere

914
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: they were in a different space. Yeah, I think, I

915
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: don't know. I think when I was younger, I was

916
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: hungry to get away from my family growing up and

917
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 1: to be a different kind of a person and to

918
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: prove that. There was a lot of proving I can

919
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: do this. And then once you've proven it in a

920
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: way and you've had some success, um, then you kind

921
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: of go, okay, well now what you know? So I

922
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: did that? Okay? So you say, now what, you've made

923
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: enough money that you didn't have to worry about money temporarily?

924
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: Not really okay, but you know that to duality, you're depressed,

925
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: and then you get depressed because you're not working and

926
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: it gets worse, and then you get to press because

927
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: you don't have any money, right, so then you have

928
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: to do something. Just basically what happened to me was

929
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: it got so bad I was going to lose my house.

930
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I gotta pull this out somehow,

931
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: I gotta do something. So what did you do? I

932
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: think I just did whatever I could. I tried to

933
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: write songs for movies. Um, I got lucky on I

934
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 1: met a fan who was writing, who was a music

935
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: supervisor for Miami Vice, and I got to write a

936
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: song for one of those shows, and that led to

937
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: making some demos for a record label, and just stuff

938
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: started happening again. Okay, so then ultimately you make a

939
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 1: record for Danny Goldberg. How does that come together? Um?

940
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: Jeff Hyman, who was a big fan of mine, UM,

941
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: was a and R for Danny Goldberg, and I think

942
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: he sought me out, and Um, I had a bunch

943
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: of songs at that point, I'd put a few together

944
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 1: and that's how I got signed there. Okay, ultimately, when

945
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 1: it's all said, because the album label ultimately went to

946
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 1: Funked and before you were on Columbia Good experience or

947
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: bad experience on gold Castle. It was good, really. I mean,

948
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: I think that was kind of a weird time the

949
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: early eighties a singer songwriters. The music was changing, and

950
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 1: so I don't think it was as easy of a

951
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: time for me or for a label like that. But

952
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: there was this whole um radio format, the Wave, which

953
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: saved me because they would play all this jazz stuff

954
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 1: and then they would play a few vocal things. So

955
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: they played two songs from that album a lot, and

956
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: that really kind of remember what two songs they were. Yes,

957
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: it was New World and Way of the Heart. Okay,

958
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,839
Speaker 1: because this album is a real return to form, obviously

959
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: made on a budget as opposed to you know, working

960
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 1: for Columbia. But you know, goodbye my friend. I remember

961
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: writing about that on nine eleven. Okay, that's certainly a

962
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: great song and the best part of you. That's got

963
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: a great sound on it. Okay, still be getting over you. Wow.

964
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: I'm someone takes a really long time to get over people,

965
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: if I ever get over them. So that was there,

966
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just one great track after another,

967
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: the one you mentioned, New World and all my Life

968
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 1: and tell me why. I mean, it's a surprise because

969
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: most people have been away cannot recapture the heights. But

970
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: this was something you said, Well, I it was on

971
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 1: a major label, maybe it would have been promoted to

972
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 1: the point would be as successful as the previous albums. Well,

973
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: I feel like if I hadn't lost those years and

974
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: I had made that album for Columbia, maybe, um, it

975
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: would have been different. Um. You know, Mark Oldenberg produced

976
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: that and he did a beautiful job. Unfortunately, that was

977
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: the time of the drum machine. So, um, you know,

978
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: we would like to go back and read something. Well,

979
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: you know that's one of the other things. Is even

980
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: there somebody you know the new Hosier track, it's got

981
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: a drum machine on and go. That's I mean, can

982
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: we can we get rid of that? Okay? So you

983
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: put out that album, okay, and that's kind of the

984
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 1: end of the new material, right, So what does that

985
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: sell us? I don't know. You know, um, I have

986
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 1: a couple of new songs, but you know, I've just

987
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know. It's hard for me. It's

988
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: hard for me to be motivated to do it, I think,

989
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: especially in this climate. Well that's my question. You know,

990
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: now you can spend all the time and make the

991
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: record and ultimately fine, it's it's over in a day.

992
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: You put it out and get the bank and that's it.

993
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: So is that the motivating it is for me? I

994
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,959
Speaker 1: mean I think what CITs now are something to sell

995
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: on the road, right, and maybe someone will play it

996
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: somewhere on a folk show or something. But so that

997
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 1: because I don't just do it because I gotta do

998
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: it and I gotta right and I'm not one of

999
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: those people. It's hard for me. I mean, it's hard

1000
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: to make a record. It's a lot of work. Um

1001
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: what about the concept of getting a publisher because you

1002
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: know your skill level is at the A level and

1003
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 1: theoretically writing a song that could be covered by somebody else.

1004
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't really know how that works these days. Um, well,

1005
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: you publish your own songs, who administers them? I do, okay?

1006
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: So you do everything yourself. You're not with you know,

1007
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: because they have these administrators like Cobalt. I mean there's

1008
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: different sides of publishing, but they have you know, Cobalt

1009
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: in downtown based on technology where they say they can

1010
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: find all this money overseas, etcetera. You haven't explored that, well,

1011
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: I have a great business manager who they administer that

1012
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: and they take care of that stuff for me. So

1013
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: I don't know if to find out, I think you

1014
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:36,760
Speaker 1: should explore that. Not that the business manager shouldn't get paid, okay,

1015
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: but it's not like the old days with one guy

1016
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: can go to meet him and you know, collect all

1017
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: the money, etcetera to have those meetings. And it's of

1018
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: course there's certain publishers who work you know, who worked

1019
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 1: tracks to what degreeed people are open to that you'd

1020
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: have to meet with people. Okay. So if you're not

1021
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: the type of person who needs to write music, what

1022
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: is your life about today? Well, I'm on the road

1023
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: a lot um with Nina Gerber, my great guitar player.

1024
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: So we've been touring a lot um. So I do that.

1025
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: Um usually weekends we do weekend wyor Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. UM.

1026
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: I do have this new CD, right, we'll get to that.

1027
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: We'll get to that in a minutum. And I live

1028
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: in a beautiful place. I you know, I live on

1029
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: an acre and I have gardens, and I have lots

1030
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: of friends, and I don't deal with traffic, and um,

1031
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: you know it's good. I don't know, you know, if

1032
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: I made a record, what like you say, what it's

1033
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: over in a day, right, right, it's hard. So let's

1034
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: go back. So now you've reached the pitnacle. You've had

1035
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: a hit record, you had lit a rod stack cover

1036
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: your records, you had a major label deal, and you

1037
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: also say you woke up one day and your personal

1038
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: life was not living up to snuff. In your mind

1039
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: all these years later, any regrets anything you would have

1040
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: done differently knowing we can't. But as we're talking about well,

1041
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: I think, you know we were talking about this. I

1042
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: think if I were I wish that I had had

1043
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: someone smart enough around me to say, you know, this

1044
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: time in the in the music business, it's like being

1045
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: an athlete. You probably got about ten years where you

1046
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: really have your opportunity and don't worry about anything else,

1047
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: just to go for it because you can do all

1048
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: this other stuff later. And I wish that I hadn't

1049
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: been so naive about that. I realized that I had

1050
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity, and obviously the mental stuff made

1051
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: it harder because I was not feeling good. But I

1052
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: regret that I didn't really you know, when I kind

1053
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: of had it in the palm of my hand. I

1054
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: didn't really go for it. And then what about I

1055
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 1: mean this is, you know, I've dedicated my life to

1056
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: a certain path and as a result, I got married.

1057
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: My ex wife said she tricked me into it, which

1058
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: is a whole separate story. And I don't have any children,

1059
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: and it's a very different path from everybody else, and

1060
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: I'm willing to own that, although that forces career issues

1061
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: to be much more important than if you have children.

1062
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: So do you have any regrets you didn't go the

1063
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: other way get married to have children. Yeah, a little bit,

1064
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: But I think I probably did the right thing. I

1065
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,919
Speaker 1: think I probably wasn't going to be a great mother.

1066
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be I would have had to change everything.

1067
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been able to be on the road.

1068
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: I think if I had a kid, I wouldn't have

1069
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: been able to leave my kid. So I think I

1070
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: would have ended up quitting anyway. I don't think that

1071
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: I was someone that could do both. And did Lisa

1072
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: have kids? I have two beautiful nieces. Okay, so let's

1073
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: go back to the new album. The album is very

1074
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: interesting because there covers of your own songs. There's cover

1075
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: of Jackson Brown song, why don't you tell the audience

1076
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: about your new album? Well, actually, the reason this I

1077
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: even started at all was I was thinking, you know,

1078
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: I have all these songs, but I don't own the

1079
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 1: masters to them, so in order to license something, I

1080
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: don't really have any control. So it seemed like it

1081
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: would make a lot of sense for me to rerecord

1082
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 1: these things so I could own the masters, own them,

1083
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: I own all the publishing, and then I could control it.

1084
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 1: So it really was done initially kind of as a

1085
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: business move. I thought it was because that's usually what

1086
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: people It was not meant to be a c D,

1087
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: so I just thought, I'm just going to go in

1088
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: cut these songs. Nina and I play them beautifully, and

1089
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: I think, actually, I think I'm singing better than I

1090
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: did a long time ago. So I thought we'd just

1091
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: take a weekend and just we'll just blow them all out.

1092
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: And it started to come out really good. So then

1093
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: I thought, well, I have all these tracks, maybe I

1094
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: should do something with it. So it kind of became

1095
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: a CD. And then the Jackson Brown tune, I'm not

1096
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: sure a lot of people heard because it was on

1097
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: this other obscure tribute album. So I put that on there,

1098
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: and then I went in and cut a song of

1099
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: Kenny's as well. Um, and that's so you know, at

1100
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: least it's something okay. But if you read the credits,

1101
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: the producer engineer his memories thanks, so I googled and

1102
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: he died at some point. It was a pretty crazy time.

1103
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: I was just getting going on this. We had cut

1104
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: the tracks and he had a heart attack fort nine

1105
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: and died. It took us a while to get back

1106
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: into the studio to do this. Then we had a

1107
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: huge wildfire and a mud slide. So all this stuff happened,

1108
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: but the CD did get finished with a great friend

1109
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: of Robinson, I Canbury, who's the one who passed away,

1110
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: Shaan mckugh, another great musician up in Santa Barbara. Because

1111
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 1: it's hard to drive down to l A and work

1112
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: on a record, let's just go back for a second.

1113
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 1: Was your house affected by the fires and the floods?

1114
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: Mine was okay? But all around me not good. Okay.

1115
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: So the project, if you look at some of the

1116
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: recording dates, were done a couple of years ago, right,

1117
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: So when did you decide you were going to actually

1118
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 1: release it? As soon as I finished it. Yeah, so

1119
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,919
Speaker 1: it just took us a while because of all those

1120
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: disasters to get it done. Really are the recording dates

1121
01:01:58,240 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: on there? I didn't even notice that. Well, there was

1122
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: something in there that indicated to me, maybe the fact

1123
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: he got credits and he died a couple of years ago,

1124
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: which is what tipped me off. Okay, yeah, I think

1125
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 1: it's just by the time we gotta beything finished. Okay.

1126
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: So are you playing some of these tracks that are

1127
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: you have not previously recorded live? Yeah? Yeah, you mean

1128
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: like the Jackson song we play and karre Me Home,

1129
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: which is a new song we're playing that. We haven't

1130
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 1: played Kenny song yet. We need to do that. We

1131
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: have played it in the past. We play all of

1132
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: those and other ones too. So I mean I'm mostly

1133
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 1: I'm touring, okay. But and then you sit there after

1134
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 1: the gig at the merch table and you signed the

1135
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: c ds, etcetera, and you find your way. It still

1136
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 1: wants the CDs. They do, they really do. And they

1137
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: want vinyl too. I'm gonna have to get some vinyl.

1138
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: They definitely want vinyl. It's an interesting thing though. I

1139
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: hear from acts that go on the road and so

1140
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 1: other things. You know, the stand the CD can't die.

1141
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: That's what I'm selling. Although I think a lot of

1142
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: times when it's autographed, even vinyl, the people just want it.

1143
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: They don't even play it, but as long as they

1144
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,920
Speaker 1: buy it. Now, going back to being on the road,

1145
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people just stop. Okay, So at what

1146
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: point did you decide that you wanted to work? I mean,

1147
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:18,479
Speaker 1: I don't think you've been working in the whole last

1148
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: twenty five years, have you. I've been working a lot.

1149
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: Actually maybe there were sometimes I didn't in the eighties,

1150
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 1: but no, starting in the nineties, I've had agents and

1151
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: been on the road. Who's your agent now? My agent

1152
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: is s R O Artists and Madison, Wisconsin. Yes, okay.

1153
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: And you do you enjoy playing on the road or

1154
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: do you find that it's a you know, a drudge drudge.

1155
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: Once I'm up there, I enjoy it um obviously the

1156
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: traveling and flying and driving not so much. That's hard.

1157
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: So in a typical year, how many gigs do you play?

1158
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: Probably thirty or forty, not a ton. Okay. Well, as

1159
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 1: I say, I've seen you a few times in the

1160
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 1: last couple of years, and I agree with you. You know,

1161
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: your voice is spectacular, which is not the case with

1162
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: most people as their careers have gone on. You know,

1163
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people and I won't even mention.

1164
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: We just have to go see them, even selling tickets

1165
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: and you're there and you go, wow, this is bad.

1166
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: I know. I don't know. I guess it's just I'm lucky.

1167
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: It must be a genetic thing or something. I haven't

1168
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 1: had to tune. You know, a lot of people tune

1169
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: their guitars down. I have to step. I haven't had

1170
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: to do that yet, which is good. Okay, we're all

1171
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: getting older by the minute. With the time you have left.

1172
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: Any specific goals, I don't know. You know, I'd like

1173
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: to figure out how to write some more songs, you know,

1174
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: without it being uh something that's difficult. You know. I

1175
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: don't know. I know people really want them for me,

1176
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: and I feel bad about that because people ask me

1177
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: or please make a new record, please make a new record,

1178
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: and I don't know. I gotta get motivated, okay, the

1179
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: people who ask you to make new record, or fans

1180
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: or business people or other musicians. No, it's always fans.

1181
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: Like I put this out and we look on Facebook

1182
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: and people are complimentary and they love it, but they

1183
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: do go please, can we have a whole new CD

1184
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: of new songs? Okay, the audience wants it. You find

1185
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: it difficult? But how much of that is what we

1186
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: talked earlier? Even if I make it, it's not like

1187
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: the old days. You know, we get all this promotion

1188
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: and you get all this uh you know mind share?

1189
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: Is it that? Or you find it difficult to write?

1190
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: I think it's said it's difficult for me to write.

1191
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: I think if I wrote easily and easy enough to record,

1192
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: and um, it's just not that easy for me. But

1193
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 1: I'm also not very disciplined. I don't sit down and

1194
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: try well. It seems to me, is I'm analyzing you

1195
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: here that you're somewhat of a perfectionist and if the

1196
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: song is not going to be at the level of

1197
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 1: your other songs, you don't want to do it. Well,

1198
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 1: why would I want to do that? I don't want

1199
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: to make a shifty out. No, no, just hanging in

1200
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: there with to begin with, it's talking about my own

1201
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: expert my experience totally different. When I was in high school,

1202
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: Mr Harrity in the English class, he'd taken a sabbatical

1203
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: which in public school. I don't know how that happened,

1204
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: but he took a year off and he came back

1205
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 1: and every morning, for five minutes, we had to write,

1206
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: and if you didn't have anything to say, you had

1207
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: to repeat the last three words. So I am a

1208
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: writer completely different from everybody else. Everybody is. The picture

1209
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: of a writer is well, I make a cup of coffee,

1210
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: I sharpened my pencils, and my goal is to get

1211
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: a page done a day. I could not be doing

1212
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: it completely different. I got a record blasting arm standing

1213
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 1: the tar. I got inspiration. It's exactly how you say

1214
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: you wrote those earlier songs. Okay, it hit, and I

1215
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 1: got to be near the computer fast enough to do that.

1216
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: But I do know. I mean, I've done it long enough.

1217
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna write anything terrible, just like you're not

1218
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: gonna run anything terrible. But you you're right it and

1219
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 1: you say, okay, this is not going to be at ten.

1220
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: You know you can see it veering as you do.

1221
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: But two things happen. One, you never know what will

1222
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: resonate with the audience. You know, when you hit in eleven,

1223
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: you're done, and you go, this is just great, and

1224
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: you'll hear it from people. But even if you have

1225
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: a seven or eight using you know this one to

1226
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: ten scale, somebody resonates. And the point is, I hate

1227
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 1: to admit it. You know a lot of times you

1228
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 1: get warmed up or I had a couple of times.

1229
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: I haven't been in such great space myself the last

1230
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, and I said, well, I want to

1231
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: write to make myself feel better. And I was out skiing,

1232
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: and by time I'm done skiing, I'm not in the mood. Okay.

1233
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: Finally I said, I'm just gonna start writing because I'm

1234
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: in a bad mood. And all this stuff for the

1235
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 1: last four days came out that I didn't even know

1236
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 1: it was going to come out. Okay, Now you have

1237
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: to want to do it. I mean, I think the

1238
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:55,440
Speaker 1: nature of being creative person is to be to a

1239
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: degree ill adjusted, and the creativity is a way of

1240
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: connect thing with people. And you know two things. One,

1241
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 1: when you connect with people feels really good. But this

1242
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: is analogous to your point about being at the therapist,

1243
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 1: which I know totally. You're at the therapist, you're talking

1244
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 1: up a storm, even though you can't talk outside the office.

1245
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 1: You leave, you're on the top of the world in

1246
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:20,520
Speaker 1: thirty or forty five minutes, Bang, you're at the bottom, okay,

1247
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: and being That's one thing I envy in a musician.

1248
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: If you happen to write a hit song. On one level,

1249
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: it's a sentence. You got to play it for the

1250
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: rest of your life. But on another level, you can

1251
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 1: perform it, whereas if you're writing prose, you're right at

1252
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: once that's it. Okay. So you know, I think there

1253
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: has to be a raw motivation. You know. The other

1254
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: thing is we all get older and we ask, well,

1255
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: you know I did this, Should I be doing something

1256
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 1: completely different? You know I'm not gonna live forever. But

1257
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 1: the question becomes as I somewhat, I mean, someone of

1258
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 1: your caliber. I have no doubt that if you applied yourself,

1259
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: you could get very major covers. Because we have the

1260
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 1: hip hop world. That's not your world, okay, then only

1261
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: we have the pop world. They don't write most of

1262
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:17,719
Speaker 1: these songs, and if you listen to the lyrics, they're

1263
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: not that good. Okay. Sure, when you write a song,

1264
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 1: you have assuming you say yes, you know, you have

1265
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: no control over what they're gonna do with it. But

1266
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 1: you know, most people can't do it, you can do it. Yeah,

1267
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: I guess I'm intimidated by that world of getting your

1268
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 1: songs covered out there. It just seems like all those

1269
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 1: young artists were writing with the producers and they want

1270
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: the writing, the publishing and the credit. And I mean,

1271
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:47,679
Speaker 1: I know some great writers that aren't getting covers people

1272
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 1: in Nashville. So I don't know. I guess I'm skeptical.

1273
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: I was too skeptical. And this is one of the problems.

1274
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 1: If you're ignorant, you're better off because all the things

1275
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 1: you're bringing up are totally reel by the same token.

1276
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: If you write a hit song, okay, that will help

1277
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: your mood. In an addition, I can certainly say you

1278
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 1: can't change a certain word. I'm totally with that. And

1279
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 1: you also say, well, I'm not giving up, but maybe

1280
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 1: even though it's a scam, you give up and then

1281
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 1: as you gain you know, it's like anything else with leverage.

1282
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: The question, you know, as I say, question, is whether

1283
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: you would get off on it. I mean, only you

1284
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: can answer that. I think it's just getting back in

1285
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: the game, you know. I think I'm disconnected from all

1286
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:41,599
Speaker 1: of the you know, the outlets for that. So i'd

1287
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: have to well, I would say that you know, there

1288
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: are not some publishers are better at collection, some better

1289
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: or better at covers, And I think having a couple

1290
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 1: of meetings with these people would show you opportunities. For

1291
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 1: you can have a meeting enough to sign anything, and

1292
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: you can also write a track and then say this

1293
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: is the track. You don't have to give up anything

1294
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 1: to do it. Because I'm here giving advice because I'm

1295
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: a big believer. I mean, I find the same motivation

1296
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: of the internet. You know, there's so much stuff out there.

1297
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 1: You write something and you go, well, you know, who

1298
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 1: am I going to reach than my core audience? And

1299
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: it's somewhat somewhat depressing for especially for those of us

1300
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: who lived through an era what it was different. Well, yeah,

1301
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: I just have to get off my butt and be

1302
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: a little more disciplined. I think I know it's in there.

1303
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I went to a writing coach when I

1304
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: had writer's block during that whole period, and somebody sent

1305
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 1: me to a writing coach and he said, Okay, I

1306
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 1: just want you to wake up every morning and just

1307
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,639
Speaker 1: write a page, just stream of consciousness. Don't It doesn't

1308
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: matter what you say. You don't kind of read it

1309
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 1: later or anything, just right. So every morning, before coffee

1310
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: or anything, just do the writing. And he goes and

1311
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:53,639
Speaker 1: then bring it back into me um, and he goes,

1312
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 1: just somewhere in there, there's going to be something, find

1313
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:59,680
Speaker 1: a line. There's got to be something in that you

1314
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 1: can is as a song title. And I was like,

1315
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,280
Speaker 1: oh God, he's going to give me an assignment. And

1316
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: so I had had a dream about my dad or something,

1317
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 1: and I wrote this thing about I always just want

1318
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 1: to stay Daddy's a little girl. And because that's what

1319
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 1: I want you to, Okay, here's this. I know you

1320
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 1: to write a song called Daddy's Little Girl. That's a

1321
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:20,599
Speaker 1: great fool And I was just like, oh, I don't

1322
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,679
Speaker 1: want to do this is awful. It's assignment. I don't

1323
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:26,679
Speaker 1: write that way. It'll come out bad, and I don't

1324
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: want to end. I went and forced this song out

1325
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:34,600
Speaker 1: and it's a great song. So it just proved to

1326
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 1: me that I was full of it thinking that I

1327
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,719
Speaker 1: couldn't write that way. So I think you're right. I mean, basically,

1328
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 1: if you're talented, you're not going to write something horrible.

1329
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 1: You might write not write the best thing you wrote

1330
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:50,520
Speaker 1: but if you have those skills, you're probably gonna write. Okay,

1331
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 1: so you're right, I have I have no. Well, the

1332
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:57,679
Speaker 1: other thing about my writing is different. You always want

1333
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 1: to write in eleven and you're disappointed once you've been

1334
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 1: doing a long time throughout eleven. But one thing is

1335
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: for sure. You cannot hit the eleven each time. Nobody can.

1336
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: But if you stay at it, all of a sudden,

1337
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 1: it's always like you know, for me, it's like what

1338
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: you say, either as a raw stimulation or I'm in

1339
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: the shower, something just comes to me and then it does.

1340
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: But you know, also as your point with your depression,

1341
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 1: you get older, you've seen the game, so it's you know,

1342
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 1: it's it's not as exciting. It's hard to get motivated. Again.

1343
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:31,679
Speaker 1: I think that's part of it. I'm probably too much,

1344
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:35,600
Speaker 1: too negative about that, but right I just wish I

1345
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 1: was one of those people that just I've no people

1346
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 1: that just go, I just have to write because I'm

1347
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 1: not happy if I'm not writing songs, and I'm like,

1348
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 1: can you give me an injection of some of that? Okay,

1349
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,679
Speaker 1: when you do write a song, let's say you're writing

1350
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:50,639
Speaker 1: the lyrics, you say, it's more difficult. When you finally

1351
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 1: do you talk about the earlier songs coming all at once?

1352
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: How fast? How long has it taken write the lyrics

1353
01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 1: for a song. Maybe you dare too so very quickly. Yeah,

1354
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: and not all day long. I mean either kind of

1355
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,120
Speaker 1: have it or I don't. It either sort of happens

1356
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 1: or a pieces of music that just sit there for

1357
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 1: years that never gets well. You know, the only thing

1358
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:20,480
Speaker 1: about it is when your music, generally speaking, certainly not personally,

1359
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:24,680
Speaker 1: it resonates with people who are square pigs in a

1360
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 1: round hole, okay, in that they use the music to

1361
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 1: feel good about These are not I'm not saying a

1362
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,839
Speaker 1: cheerleader or football captain can't enjoy your music, but people

1363
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 1: who you're when your fans say they want more, they

1364
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:43,880
Speaker 1: want more insight, that's what you know. We Joni Mitchell,

1365
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 1: we wanted more and then she lost the plot and

1366
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 1: she's kind of crazy anyway. But I don't know, you know,

1367
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:53,679
Speaker 1: I'll I'll let you get up off the couch. But

1368
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 1: those are some of my thoughts. Now it's inspiring. I

1369
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: think those are good thoughts. Okay, But let's it to

1370
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 1: Carla Bonoff. You can where are you playing? Yolk? For

1371
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 1: the next six months. Oh, it's on our website. We're

1372
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 1: going to the Northwest. Um, then we're going back east.

1373
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 1: We're going everywhere, go everywhere. And these tend to be

1374
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:16,680
Speaker 1: solo dates or you I know you played with j

1375
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 1: D in Minneapolis, but these other gigs mostly just yeah

1376
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 1: for an evening with Carla bonof Right, So how many

1377
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: songs might someone expect to hear? Um? We play almost

1378
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 1: two hours actually, So if you go, you're gonna hear

1379
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 1: the song you want, and you can buy the new album.

1380
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 1: And you can also, because I know I did it,

1381
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 1: you can stream it on Spotify another streaming services. Carla,

1382
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 1: it has been wonderful to have you here. Thank you

1383
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 1: so much.