Speaker 1: Everybody knew that she was more liberal than Franklin, and
Speaker 1: on many issues. For example, take anti lynching, the anti
Speaker 1: lynching law. Franklin was aware that he could not get
Speaker 1: anything through the Senate with so many committees chaired by
Speaker 1: Southern senators, but Eleanor could speak out on in favor
Speaker 1: of anti lynching laws. I've heard many people say that
Speaker 1: they didn't have much use for Franklin, but they voted
Speaker 1: for him just because he was married to Eleanor and
Speaker 1: they had faith that she would make the right decisions
Speaker 1: when she could. That is historian Betty Boyd Coroll talking
Speaker 1: about Eleanor Roosevelt, one of the most extraordinary first ladies
Speaker 1: this country has ever known. From the nineteen thirties through
Speaker 1: the early sixties, Eleanor Roosevelt was a vigorous champion for
Speaker 1: social justice and equal rights for women, for African Americans,
Speaker 1: for the poor, for working people. I'm a land Ververe
Speaker 1: and this is Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear. We
Speaker 1: are bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring
Speaker 1: and history making women. You need to hear. The wife
Speaker 1: of one President Franklin, Delana Roosevelt, and the niece of
Speaker 1: another Teddy Roosevelt. Eleanor had enormous influence on policy, known
Speaker 1: as FDR's Eyes, Ears and Legs. During the Depression, she
Speaker 1: traveled across the country meeting with ordinary citizens and advocating
Speaker 1: for relief programs. After World War Two, she was a
Speaker 1: prime mover behind the U n s Universal Declaration of
Speaker 1: Human Rights. That landmark document has become the basis for
Speaker 1: constitutions of countries around the world. Our guest today is
Speaker 1: Betty Boyd care L, a leading expert on American first ladies.
Speaker 1: Her books include Lady Burton Lindon First Ladies, Martha Washington
Speaker 1: to Michelle Obama, and the Roosevelt Women. Let's listen and
Speaker 1: learn why Eleanor Roosevelt is one of Seneca's one Women.
Speaker 1: To hear Well, I'm really excited to be here today
Speaker 1: with Betty Boyd Carole, who is an authority on first ladies,
Speaker 1: and we are going to be discussing one of the
Speaker 1: great first ladies, Eleanor Roosevelt today. But Betty is the
Speaker 1: author of several books and and a wonderful authority and resource.
Speaker 1: So Betty, welcome, thank you, good to be here. Eleanor
Speaker 1: Roosevelt was so many things. She was a diplomatic, human
Speaker 1: rights crusader, a politician, one of the most remarkable, if
Speaker 1: not the most remarkable first lady. What do you think
Speaker 1: she is best remembered for and how would you discus
Speaker 1: ribe her impact? Well? I think how she is being
Speaker 1: remembered depends on the age group. For a certain age group,
Speaker 1: I think Eleanor Roosevelt will always be the first Lady,
Speaker 1: an amazing first lady in the job much longer than
Speaker 1: anyone had ever been, and did more with it than
Speaker 1: anyone had ever done. But I think for younger Americans
Speaker 1: probably she's remembered for her post first lady years, when
Speaker 1: she became really first lady of the world with her
Speaker 1: work at the United Nations UH the Declaration of Human Rights.
Speaker 1: So it depends on the age group. But certainly she's
Speaker 1: one of the most remarkable American women ever produced. So
Speaker 1: let's perhaps start at the beginning so we can get
Speaker 1: to understand her a little better and peel what she
Speaker 1: was up against. She didn't start out as a crusader,
Speaker 1: she didn't start out the way that history remembers her today.
Speaker 1: For the most part, what was it like for women
Speaker 1: of her time and and how was she as a person.
Speaker 1: She didn't have all the confidence in the world, as
Speaker 1: I remember. No. Eleanor Roosevelt certainly had one of the
Speaker 1: most disastrous childhoods of all time, probably losing both her
Speaker 1: parents before the age of ten, also a brother, growing
Speaker 1: up in really very tragic circumstances. But she went away
Speaker 1: to school in England, uh in a school that her
Speaker 1: aunt had attended previously. I think she gained enormous self
Speaker 1: confidence there, partly because of the way she was treated
Speaker 1: by the school. It was a different atmosphere, so she
Speaker 1: gained some confidence there. And by the time she came
Speaker 1: back to the United States in nineteen two, her uncle
Speaker 1: was President of the United States, and I think she
Speaker 1: began to see the women in her family in a
Speaker 1: slightly different light. Certainly they were important to her development,
Speaker 1: I think, although not much credit is given to them.
Speaker 1: Remember that at the time Theodore was president, event his sister,
Speaker 1: his older sister Bamy, her real name was Anna, but
Speaker 1: everybody called Obami, lived right there in Washington, and Eleanor
Speaker 1: said she thought that Theodore never made an important decision
Speaker 1: without talking it over with Bammy first. So Bannie had
Speaker 1: tremendous political aptitude. She was interested in how issues were resolved,
Speaker 1: and I think I think that made a difference to Eleanor.
Speaker 1: I think she saw that the other aunt was also
Speaker 1: politically involved, a friend of senators, and actually later became
Speaker 1: the first woman to give a nominating speech at a
Speaker 1: major party convention for president. So she came back from
Speaker 1: England with already a bit of self confidence, and then
Speaker 1: I think being exposed to those women in her family,
Speaker 1: I think that helped she had some social conscience then.
Speaker 1: I mean, we know that she went to work briefly.
Speaker 1: When I say work, I mean a volunteer work at
Speaker 1: a settlement house here in New York. And what they
Speaker 1: it at the settlements was she taught dancing or whatever
Speaker 1: needed to be taught. But she also made visits to homes.
Speaker 1: And it's said that when Franklin accompanied her to some
Speaker 1: of the very impoverished homes, dilapidated housing, terrible conditions, he said,
Speaker 1: I didn't know people lived like that. So she had
Speaker 1: some social conscience then and perhaps exposed him to one
Speaker 1: of his first well he said it was his first
Speaker 1: exposure to that kind of living. So that's how she
Speaker 1: started out. But the real change, I think comes later,
Speaker 1: and I think we can point to World War One
Speaker 1: for for making that change. Now, what do you mean
Speaker 1: by that? We can point to World War One because
Speaker 1: she wasn't the crusader that she became at the end.
Speaker 1: She was always involved and as you said, she was
Speaker 1: pointing out to her husband some of the really difficult
Speaker 1: ways in which people were living, even before he was president.
Speaker 1: And of course she did that in spades once he
Speaker 1: was president. Uh So, what made her into the crusaders
Speaker 1: she became ten years or so after her marriage. She
Speaker 1: was pretty much concerned with family. She gave birth to
Speaker 1: six children in ten years. One of them died, but
Speaker 1: five lived to adulthood. It was after that, after nineteen sixteen,
Speaker 1: the children were born and on their way. And I
Speaker 1: have to say that even before that, when Franklin was
Speaker 1: elected to the state legislature in nineteen ten, and at
Speaker 1: their home there were meetings of Democratic leaders. So she
Speaker 1: was involved in political discussions. It just that she wasn't.
Speaker 1: She didn't speak out in the way that she did later.
Speaker 1: But in nineteen thirteen they moved to Washington because Franklin
Speaker 1: became assistant secretary of the Navy, and they lived in
Speaker 1: a house, uh near Um the aunt that I mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier ban me, And when the war started, Eleanor was
Speaker 1: right down there volunteering at the canteen, talking to soldiers
Speaker 1: going off the war, dealing with the wounded who came back.
Speaker 1: And I think it opened her eyes to what needed
Speaker 1: to be done and what she could do. And it's
Speaker 1: really after that, after the war that we see her
Speaker 1: getting involved. Of course, then uh in Franklin was on
Speaker 1: the Democratic ticket as vice president. She campaigned, but just
Speaker 1: not the way we think of campaigning, not giving speeches.
Speaker 1: She rode beside him on the train, you know, and
Speaker 1: wait that sort of thing. And then, of course when
Speaker 1: he gets polio in one she's really pushed into the
Speaker 1: limelight in a way that she wasn't before. In other words,
Speaker 1: I think Louis Howe was instrumental in getting her too
Speaker 1: to travel to be the eyes and ears for Franklin
Speaker 1: when his mobility was limited. So it's really the war,
Speaker 1: Franklin's polio that initiates her as a major activist. And
Speaker 1: how did she feel about the women's suffrage movement? Would
Speaker 1: we describe her as a feminist in those days? Oh?
Speaker 1: The suffrage question, I think it people of our time
Speaker 1: have probable understanding why women like Eleanor Roosevelt and her aunts,
Speaker 1: remember the aunt that was advising the president, They weren't
Speaker 1: interested in the vote at all. It was it was
Speaker 1: common to women of that class and time, and I
Speaker 1: think they felt that they really had enough to do
Speaker 1: with politics without voting. You know, if you're having dinner
Speaker 1: with the president or the your senator, you didn't really
Speaker 1: feel you had to vote. You were speaking your mind
Speaker 1: right to the top. So her aunts didn't favor the vote,
Speaker 1: and she really didn't favor the vote until I think
Speaker 1: we can say after New York gave the vote, I
Speaker 1: shouldn't say gave the vote. The women achieved the right
Speaker 1: to vote were enfranchised by nineteen seventeen. I mean the
Speaker 1: the election of nineteen seventeen in New York. People voted
Speaker 1: that women should be allowed to vote, so after that
Speaker 1: they could. I think that maybe gave a little spur
Speaker 1: of energy to a movement. So now we're going to
Speaker 1: fast forward and her husband is elected president and she
Speaker 1: enters into that very difficult position a first lady, one
Speaker 1: that comes with no job description those days. I think
Speaker 1: she may have had one staff. If that but you're
Speaker 1: gonna let us know, and she turned out to be
Speaker 1: perhaps the most activist first lady. How did she feel
Speaker 1: about moving into the White House and did she have
Speaker 1: a sense of what would be required of her or
Speaker 1: how did all of that evolve. Eleanor Roosevelt hated the
Speaker 1: idea of moving into the White House. She said she
Speaker 1: wanted to keep her teaching job. Remember, she had seen
Speaker 1: her aunt in the job. Theodore's wife, Edith, had had
Speaker 1: the job almost eight years, so it was mostly although
Speaker 1: I think Edith has been a little underestimated. I mean,
Speaker 1: after all, Edith did have some ideas about how to
Speaker 1: popularize the presidential family by hiring a secretary that gave
Speaker 1: out autographed photographs of them and so forth. So I
Speaker 1: think maybe Eleanor underestimated her aunt Edith. But she definitely
Speaker 1: didn't want that hostessing job, where most of it was
Speaker 1: just greeting people at the table and not speaking your mind.
Speaker 1: I don't Edith had a few opinions, but she was
Speaker 1: very careful about uh telling anybody what they were. So
Speaker 1: Eleanor definitely did not want to move into the White House.
Speaker 1: But she did, and she did give up her teaching
Speaker 1: job and she had a staff, but not what we
Speaker 1: would call a staff today. I mean, what's the typical Well,
Speaker 1: not in this administration, but in previous administrations you would
Speaker 1: be able to tell us this. It's more like two
Speaker 1: dozen people are on it at least and then borrowing,
Speaker 1: as Lady burg Johnson, did you borrowed from other departments? Well,
Speaker 1: Eleanor's was nothing like that. In fact, it's not even
Speaker 1: officially entered into the Book of Government Employees, the person
Speaker 1: working or the persons working for the First Lady. The
Speaker 1: first one to really be mentioned officially is Mamie Eisenhower's
Speaker 1: secretary in the nineteen fifties. But Eleanor did have people
Speaker 1: working for She had secretaries, she had people volunteering. She
Speaker 1: had her friend Lourina Hiccock, the journalist, moved in as
Speaker 1: soon as she went to the White House in nineteen three.
Speaker 1: So um, she did have a staff. And remember when
Speaker 1: she got there, she had had a lot of training.
Speaker 1: I think if you look at what Eleanor Roosevelt did
Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties, you're not very surprised by what
Speaker 1: she did in the nineteen thirties as First Lady. Because remember,
Speaker 1: in nineteen she helped write the platform. She was very
Speaker 1: active in the women's division of the Democratic Party, helping
Speaker 1: to write the platform. She had a strong network of
Speaker 1: women friends who were instrumental in many very activists in
Speaker 1: many organizations. So she'd gained she'd gained confidence, says a speaker,
Speaker 1: because she she had confidence meeting people. She had been
Speaker 1: wife of the governor of New York, so she she
Speaker 1: didn't come in. I think there are a few first
Speaker 1: ladies who were as well prepared for the job as
Speaker 1: Eleanor Roosevelt was in n You know, that's really an
Speaker 1: interesting comment because we don't think about it that way.
Speaker 1: We think of all the professional women who have come
Speaker 1: in since. But she really did come with a lot
Speaker 1: of experience that was relevant to the way the position
Speaker 1: evolved in her doing it. Yes, I cannot think Lady
Speaker 1: Bird Johnson, of course had more years in Washington, but
Speaker 1: I think the two of them are probably um the
Speaker 1: best prepared of any first ladies in terms of their
Speaker 1: time in Washington and knowing what the job entailed. You know,
Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about women and getting the
Speaker 1: right to vote, and another issue that was clearly one
Speaker 1: in that society was grappling with was the issue of
Speaker 1: race relations. And one of her most memorable acts was
Speaker 1: having Marian Anderson saying at the Lincoln Memorial back in
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine. I think, so, how did all of
Speaker 1: that happen? Because that was another really extraordinary bit of
Speaker 1: action on Eleanor's part. It was that was extraordinary. Remember
Speaker 1: Marian Anderson in nineteen thirty nine, I had a world reputation,
Speaker 1: but was not permitted to sing in most venues in
Speaker 1: the United States. I mean, she was what about forty,
Speaker 1: she was born about forty in her early forties, a
Speaker 1: wonderful control co in Europe. She had been praised as
Speaker 1: a voice that is heard once in a century. And
Speaker 1: you know, if you go on YouTube and listen to
Speaker 1: her singing in front of the Lincoln Memorial that day
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty nine, you'll understand what they were talking about.
Speaker 1: It was a remarkable voice. She had had fantastic success
Speaker 1: in Europe. So in ninety nine, the plan was to
Speaker 1: have her sing in Washington, and and the only hall
Speaker 1: large enough to accommodate what it was thought would be
Speaker 1: you know, an unbelievable crowd was Constitution Hall, which was
Speaker 1: of course controlled by the Daughters of American Revolution and
Speaker 1: they had a policy, a race policy that the audiences
Speaker 1: were not integrated and certainly not the performers, so they
Speaker 1: denied her the right to sing there. And Eleanor got
Speaker 1: wind of this, and with the Secretary of Interior, and
Speaker 1: I think Franklin's help, I think it was a broad
Speaker 1: based appeal, it was decided that she would sing in
Speaker 1: front of in the Lincoln Memorial on Easter Sunday. And
Speaker 1: if you see pictures of that on YouTube, I mean
Speaker 1: that's something like people lined up in front and it's
Speaker 1: just Marian Anderson upfair with her pianist, this kind of
Speaker 1: lonely figure in front of this impressive monument, and she
Speaker 1: starts singing. It's an unbelievable event. I think what most
Speaker 1: people don't know is that Eleanor did not actually attend
Speaker 1: the concert because she felt it would take attention away
Speaker 1: from Marion Anderson. That's the kind of person she was.
Speaker 1: Senecas one hundred women to hear will be back after
Speaker 1: the short break. Well, she made history in so many ways.
Speaker 1: She also had her radio addresses and we read her columns,
Speaker 1: so she was communicating constantly. Her impressions of what was
Speaker 1: happening in the country, and it was a tumultuous time.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a tumultuous time. Remember, I always say that
Speaker 1: she she tops all lists for first ladies. Whether you
Speaker 1: survey the readers of Good Housekeeping or you ask political
Speaker 1: scientists to rate first Ladies, Eleanor Roosevelt always comes out
Speaker 1: on top. But we remember that she was in the
Speaker 1: job longer than anybody, as I said before, and also
Speaker 1: during the Great Depression and World War Two, two of
Speaker 1: our very low spots in American history. But she knew
Speaker 1: how to use her time there. I mean, it wasn't
Speaker 1: just that she was up against really rough times. You
Speaker 1: speak about her her writing, she had started out writing
Speaker 1: articles earlier, and then by nine I think, well she
Speaker 1: there was some competition with her cousin Alice Roosevelt, who
Speaker 1: also wanted to write columns, but Eleanor showed her very
Speaker 1: quickly who could be best at that job. So Eleanor
Speaker 1: started writing a column December one, nineteen thirty five, and
Speaker 1: wrote it right up until her death. I mean just
Speaker 1: a few weeks before her death. She scaled back to
Speaker 1: instead of six days a week, three days a week,
Speaker 1: or something like that. She scaled back. But these my
Speaker 1: day columns that Americans read, and I've heard people say
Speaker 1: that their mothers told them o' franklin, he can't be
Speaker 1: that bad if he's married to her. I mean, people
Speaker 1: didn't like Franklin at all would read Eleanor's daily columns
Speaker 1: and think they had a kindred soul. She also went
Speaker 1: on the radio issue point out not part of this,
Speaker 1: I think maybe most people don't know this, but part
Speaker 1: of her publishing, publishing and her uh speaking on the
Speaker 1: radio was commercial. In other words, she was paid for it.
Speaker 1: She was paid pretty well for the radio appearances and
Speaker 1: in fact made more money than uh Franklin did. Franklin's
Speaker 1: salary at the beginning was seventy dollars a year, and
Speaker 1: she was making more than that with her radio speeches.
Speaker 1: We probably should talk a little bit about Eleanor's attitude
Speaker 1: toward money. She um she really liked to be paid
Speaker 1: for what she did. Now she had an income, she
Speaker 1: had a family income, and she had her her as
Speaker 1: a wife of Franklin, she had access to money. But
Speaker 1: she felt that the money she earned herself was important
Speaker 1: and she gave it away. I mean she gave enormous
Speaker 1: amounts to different charities. It wasn't that she spend it,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody knows she was not a spender, certainly
Speaker 1: not on clothes or personal luxuries. So she gave the
Speaker 1: money away, but she wanted to be compensated for what
Speaker 1: she did, and she reached out to people in a
Speaker 1: way that no first lady had ever done. She's not
Speaker 1: the first first lady to speak on the radio, but
Speaker 1: she certainly used it more than any of the others
Speaker 1: ever had and reached more people. And she did press
Speaker 1: conferences too, didn't she. All her press conferences were and
Speaker 1: sometimes they were broadcast on the radio. But the important
Speaker 1: thing I think about the press conferences is not only
Speaker 1: that she had them, but that she limited attendance to women,
Speaker 1: so that newspapers that didn't have a woman on the
Speaker 1: staff were quickly encouraged to hire one so they could
Speaker 1: attend Eleanor's press conferences and pick up a little something
Speaker 1: that maybe had and hit the news rooms before. She
Speaker 1: really was ahead of her time in so many ways.
Speaker 1: You know, I have this image of her on those
Speaker 1: cargo planes with her wrapped in a blanket, flying to
Speaker 1: our servicemen during the war. I mean, what an extraordinary
Speaker 1: thing that she did, at great personal sacrifice to herself,
Speaker 1: great discomfort, and yet she would go and meet with them,
Speaker 1: bring back their letters from there to their families, etcetera.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about that role that
Speaker 1: she played. Oh, there are so many stories about and
Speaker 1: I think you're thinking particularly about the trip to the
Speaker 1: Pacific exactly. Yeah, and remember those planes were not very pressurized.
Speaker 1: I mean it was extremely uncomfortable to do, but she
Speaker 1: went and she Oh the hours that she spent up
Speaker 1: early in the morning till late at night, going from
Speaker 1: bed to bed in the hospitals, talking to men who
Speaker 1: had been injured. Did they have a letter they wanted
Speaker 1: to give somebody back home. She would personally see that
Speaker 1: it got delivered. It was just an amazing thing. Nobody
Speaker 1: had ever done anything like that, people, no first lady
Speaker 1: had ever done anything like that before. So you know,
Speaker 1: she wasn't a person for comfort. I mean, that was
Speaker 1: the last thing on her list, it seems to me.
Speaker 1: And she was a constant nudge to her husband, was
Speaker 1: she not. Oh, there are many stories about that, and
Speaker 1: I think that's a very clever partnership they worked out
Speaker 1: because everybody knew that she was more liberal than Franklin,
Speaker 1: and on many issues, for example, take anti lynching, the
Speaker 1: anti lynching law. Franklin was aware that he could not
Speaker 1: get anything through the Senate with so many committees chaired
Speaker 1: by Southern senators. But Eleanor could speak out on in
Speaker 1: favor of anti lynching laws, and and when people said,
Speaker 1: can't you get your wife to shut up, he'd just say, oh,
Speaker 1: I can't do anything about her. So another words, they
Speaker 1: were pulling people who were four an anti lynching law
Speaker 1: and appeasing those who were against, you know, in the
Speaker 1: same couple. They were working it out very well. I've
Speaker 1: heard many people say that they didn't have much use
Speaker 1: for Franklin, but they voted for him just because he
Speaker 1: was married to Eleanor, and they had faith that she
Speaker 1: would make the right decisions when she could, and she
Speaker 1: really had her pulse on the country in terms of
Speaker 1: being able to tell him what was happening. Well, that's
Speaker 1: of course something that she did extremely well, which was
Speaker 1: to go into poor areas of Appellation, for example, and
Speaker 1: come back to Washington and tell the stories about how
Speaker 1: people were living and how there needed to be some
Speaker 1: sort of housing improvement in that area. Uh, just those
Speaker 1: that really goes back, doesn't it to her days in
Speaker 1: the College settlement when she was going around immigrant households
Speaker 1: in New York City and she just applied the same
Speaker 1: measures going from different different areas in the United States eater.
Speaker 1: So people said that she got away with that. In
Speaker 1: other words, people didn't think she was reaching too far
Speaker 1: because of his limited mobility, because of his being unable
Speaker 1: to travel, and of course he was he was pushing
Speaker 1: her on that. Remember the story when she comes back
Speaker 1: and says, oh, I think they were having a pretty
Speaker 1: good diet at that prison or wherever she had visited,
Speaker 1: and he he said, well what did they eat? She said, well,
Speaker 1: they ate this and this and this. And he said,
Speaker 1: well did you go in and look at the pots
Speaker 1: in the kitchen? And she said no, I didn't do that,
Speaker 1: and he said, well, that's the real test. So the
Speaker 1: next time she made sure she looked at the pots
Speaker 1: in the kitchen. You see, because what she was served
Speaker 1: out front as an example of what the prisoners were
Speaker 1: eating maybe or the people in whatever institutions she was visiting,
Speaker 1: that might not have been exactly what they were eating
Speaker 1: from day to day. Self fascinating and what a great
Speaker 1: first lady. But we remember her too, not just for
Speaker 1: all of this and so much more, but for what
Speaker 1: happened after the White House. That's true. You know. It's
Speaker 1: often told that she met a reporter after Franklin had
Speaker 1: died in nineteen forty five, and he said, so, what's
Speaker 1: the story, and she said, those stories over now. But
Speaker 1: of course it wasn't. She lived another seventeen years when
Speaker 1: you when you think that's a and was really active
Speaker 1: right up until almost the time of her death. In
Speaker 1: other words, she was supported appointed by President Kennedy to
Speaker 1: head the Women's Commission. So um, she was active seventeen
Speaker 1: years and what we most well, I don't know what
Speaker 1: most people remember her, but I hope it's for the
Speaker 1: work with the United Nations. Yes, when she was appointed
Speaker 1: at the end of nineteen five, so just a few
Speaker 1: months after Franklin's death and after moving out of the
Speaker 1: White House, when she was appointed to the U n
Speaker 1: I think some people thought it was a way to
Speaker 1: get her out of the country and shut her up
Speaker 1: right right, But of course she made it to something
Speaker 1: really special and worked really hard for two years. I mean,
Speaker 1: the estimate of the number of people that she interviewed
Speaker 1: and contacted and um worked on to get them to
Speaker 1: go along with a declaration of human rights that everybody
Speaker 1: could agree on. And of course you know the story
Speaker 1: that when it was finished, one of the senators who
Speaker 1: had been so negative about her before said, I take
Speaker 1: back everything I said about her, and believe me, it's
Speaker 1: been plenty. I'm sure. But let's back up a little bit.
Speaker 1: At the u N so so President Truman names her,
Speaker 1: I think to the General Assembly to be a delegate.
Speaker 1: What role did she play in the US getting fully
Speaker 1: engaged as a member, because you leave just celebrated the
Speaker 1: seventy five birthday of the U N and she was
Speaker 1: part of all of that. Well. She certainly brought publicity
Speaker 1: to the idea that the United Nations was something that
Speaker 1: the country should be interested in. In terms of her
Speaker 1: actually pulling people in, she was very strong about the
Speaker 1: US role in the US being a leader and caring
Speaker 1: about how this developed from the very beginning. I think
Speaker 1: back the antipathy many Americans feel towards any kind of
Speaker 1: international organization, right that, uh, we're somehow the best nation
Speaker 1: in the world and we should go it alone. She
Speaker 1: certainly helped break down that prejudice by saying how important
Speaker 1: it was to know the rest of the world and
Speaker 1: to be part of the efforts of the rest of
Speaker 1: the world. Yes, so she became in many ways a spokesperson,
Speaker 1: if you will, for why it makes sense and why
Speaker 1: it matters, and that criticism is still there in the
Speaker 1: part of many people, issues of sovereignty, etcetera. So again
Speaker 1: she was breaking ground. But as you said, it was
Speaker 1: really what the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and that
Speaker 1: was just an extraordinary accomplishment in terms of what she
Speaker 1: did beyond those those years in the White House where
Speaker 1: she was tremendously engaged in so many different ways. So
Speaker 1: what don't we know about Eleanor Roosevelt. There have been
Speaker 1: so many works written about her. As you said, she
Speaker 1: enjoyed an extremely long life. She was participating up until
Speaker 1: her last years. But there must be things we don't
Speaker 1: know about her that you certainly know having spent so
Speaker 1: many years as an historian unearthing her story. No, I
Speaker 1: think there's some things about Eleanor Roosevelt we will never know.
Speaker 1: I mean, for example, her personal attachments. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a new book out just now about her life, and um,
Speaker 1: it was all the ones who went before point out
Speaker 1: that she had a way of forming close attachments with
Speaker 1: people who really took advantage of her terribly and and
Speaker 1: we're not on her side necessarily, they profited from the
Speaker 1: attachment she had relationships. She was a close friend of
Speaker 1: some people who were anti Semitic and racist, and you say,
Speaker 1: how did she manage that? And if I could sit
Speaker 1: down and talk with her, that's what I would like
Speaker 1: to know. How she reconciled why. I think she would say,
Speaker 1: you keep an open mind. People have a right to
Speaker 1: make mistakes you but it's always I wish I had
Speaker 1: that broad minded approach to people who don't agree with me.
Speaker 1: And also her relationships, remember her relationships with her kids,
Speaker 1: We're not great, and yet she made close relationships. She
Speaker 1: had close friendships, important friendships with other young people who
Speaker 1: became almost adopted sons. You think of Joe Lash or
Speaker 1: people like that, And that's a question I would like
Speaker 1: to talk to her about how she made those friendships
Speaker 1: and yet had such distant relationships with her own kids.
Speaker 1: Really fascinating. So if she were alive today looking out
Speaker 1: at what is happening at home, and around the world.
Speaker 1: What do you think her advice would be for these times? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, she had a streak of optimism. She really
Speaker 1: thought things would get better, but we have to keep working.
Speaker 1: You know, she had tremendous energy. I don't think any
Speaker 1: of us could match her energy, but that was in
Speaker 1: the family. You know, she would go on four hours
Speaker 1: of sleep at night and she I could think her
Speaker 1: she would say, keep working. You know it'll get better,
Speaker 1: but we just need to keep working. Um. That's really
Speaker 1: the model that kept her going. I don't I really
Speaker 1: when I read the hour she put in how she
Speaker 1: would turn out a column at two o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 1: I don't see how she did it, but she would
Speaker 1: say we could if we keep trying. You don't know
Speaker 1: if it's in the genes or if it's just pure determinate. Well,
Speaker 1: that advice is good for all of us all the time. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I can't say how wonderful it's been to talk
Speaker 1: to you today, Betty, and our listeners have an opportunity
Speaker 1: to dig deeper into all of this because you've been
Speaker 1: a prolific author, and I hope that they will. But
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us and for
Speaker 1: making Eleanor that much more proximate to all of us.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. I thought I knew Eleanor Roosevelt, but
Speaker 1: I learned so much from Betty Boyd Coroli. Here are
Speaker 1: three things I took away from that conversation. First, Eleanor
Speaker 1: Roosevelt was able to create change, and she had two
Speaker 1: great tools, an ability to speak to ordinary, everyday people
Speaker 1: about their concerns and a strong network of women who
Speaker 1: were activists and organizations that could help make a difference. Second,
Speaker 1: Eleanor backed up her convictions with bold gestures. When black
Speaker 1: opera singer Marian Anderson was not allowed to sing at
Speaker 1: the d A R S Call in Washington, d C,
Speaker 1: Eleanor arranged for her to perform in front of the
Speaker 1: Lincoln Memorial. Finally, Eleanor had tremendous energy and great optimism.
Speaker 1: As Betty Boyd Carol tells us, Eleanor always believed that
Speaker 1: things would get better, but that you have to keep
Speaker 1: working on them. You have to keep on trying. Tune
Speaker 1: in next Thursday to hear about our next featured woman
Speaker 1: and discover why she's one of Seneca's One Women. To
Speaker 1: hear Seneca's One hundred Women to Hear is a collaboration
Speaker 1: between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: with support from founding partner Pung. Have a great day
Speaker 1: in Patt