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Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing

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Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio. It's the Beautiful. Just back in

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Speaker 1: the early days of rock and roll, men and women

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Speaker 1: wrote songs, played instruments and sang vocals, supported only by

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Speaker 1: recording technology that is primitive compared to today. In other words,

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Speaker 1: you actually had to have talent. My guest today is

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Speaker 1: one of those legendary earlier rock and rollers, Felix Cavalieri

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Speaker 1: of the Rascals. That's Felix singing and playing his Hammond

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Speaker 1: B three organ on this track. The Rascals Felix, Eddie Brigatti,

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Speaker 1: Dino Danelli and Gene Cornish formed in nine and produced

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Speaker 1: nine hit songs over the next three years, songs everybody knows, grooving, good,

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Speaker 1: loving people, got to be Free, and It's a Beautiful Morning.

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Speaker 1: Felix Cavalieri's mother started him on piano at age six,

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Speaker 1: but his world was turned upside down in junior high

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Speaker 1: when he first heard the music of Fats Domino, Chuck

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Speaker 1: Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis. It changed his world and

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Speaker 1: hours forever. Felix is originally from the New York City area,

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Speaker 1: but he's lived in Nashville for decades. What happened to

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Speaker 1: me basically is is I had these gentlemen approached me

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Speaker 1: that they were starting at management company. They invited me

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Speaker 1: down to Nashville to meet with them. I came down here.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I started to see people I knew, like,

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Speaker 1: for example, John k Steppenwolf, Bobby Glaudio was down here

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Speaker 1: for four seasons. We had two of springsteense guys. We

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Speaker 1: still have one. Gary Tallant is still down here. I said,

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Speaker 1: what is this? He said, oh, man, this is the place.

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Speaker 1: I said, you sure, is it? Yeah, this is the place.

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Speaker 1: You should come down here. And it was so interesting

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Speaker 1: because now it's very different because the word is out.

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Speaker 1: But it was so nice and quaint. You could actually

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Speaker 1: walk into a place and you didn't have to make

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Speaker 1: an appointment. And here's my best story. When I first

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Speaker 1: got here, they said, oh, there's a bank in town

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Speaker 1: that you know, it really helps out musicians songwriters. I said,

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Speaker 1: you're kidding. He said, yeah. They got a special department

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Speaker 1: for publishing and writing and song ring as. It's just

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Speaker 1: like New York. The department in New York was called

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Speaker 1: the Exit. They rocked him. You here, I said, and

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Speaker 1: it's true. How long you been down there? You said

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Speaker 1: twenty years? Now about thirty years, thirty years, thirty years.

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Speaker 1: I've been here and I've watched it lose a lot

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Speaker 1: of that quaintness and a lot of that jeez, just

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Speaker 1: walking any time you want, what would you say? I

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Speaker 1: mean your voice, your songs, which you know seem from

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Speaker 1: such a different error because they're so pure. Your music

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Speaker 1: is so pure. It's pretty music sung with great passion,

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Speaker 1: beautiful songs, beautiful armrangements, beautiful singing, great writing. It's in

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Speaker 1: that category of music that just puts people in a

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Speaker 1: happy mood the minute they hear it. It relaxes them.

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Speaker 1: And when I'm wondering, is there anything about the business

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Speaker 1: now that's better than it used to be? Or was

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Speaker 1: it all better back then? Now? Just the technology is better,

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Speaker 1: we can do this. For example, recently, before all this

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Speaker 1: pandemic started, I was doing an album and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden everything got locked down. I was able

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Speaker 1: to continue doing the album at home. See that, that's

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Speaker 1: the difference the technology. So it's good and it's bad.

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Speaker 1: What's good about it is that, man, it's just so

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Speaker 1: much fun to make music in your house now. Of

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Speaker 1: course you really missed the guys in the studio and

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Speaker 1: all that. But we can do it online now. But

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Speaker 1: would you prefer when the COVID's over it to be

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Speaker 1: back face to face with people, because I'm shooting a

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Speaker 1: TV show right now, and I gotta say that a

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Speaker 1: little bit of the joy the camaraderie of working with

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Speaker 1: people that you admire, working with people you like, and

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Speaker 1: being able to relax not every day but some days

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Speaker 1: and just shoot the ship with them and have a

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Speaker 1: good conversation with some actor or actress or writer director

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Speaker 1: that you really perspect. The joy for me of acting

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Speaker 1: has been who I met. Of course, we've done only

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Speaker 1: five shows this year, but we did one in California

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Speaker 1: in October. There was an outdoor venue as a casino. Normally,

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Speaker 1: the guys go on stage and they sound check. They

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Speaker 1: start about three o'clock and then the show is at eight.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't get them off the stage to stop rehearsing.

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Speaker 1: They just missed each other so much. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that I realized when we're doing this, I I

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Speaker 1: just did this thing for Hello TV, which is a

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Speaker 1: new kind of idea that what they're doing is they're

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Speaker 1: filming a live show and then they're going to broadcast it.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you now, you do this all the time.

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Speaker 1: You work in front of a camera, and you don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily have an audience. I'll tell you, man, there was

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Speaker 1: no audience that I was exhausted. I'm playing to the

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Speaker 1: camera and there's nobody out there going yeah, yo, you

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Speaker 1: know this. I was so tired at the end of

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Speaker 1: that the ace. You grew up in New York correct,

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Speaker 1: pretty close to the part of New York. Tell um,

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Speaker 1: New York right out? And what did your dad do?

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Speaker 1: My family was all in medicine. I was the only

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Speaker 1: one that decided to jump out to this crazy world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were all in medicine. My dad was a dentist,

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Speaker 1: my mom was a pharmacist. And basically they just saw

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Speaker 1: some talent in me. So they started when I was

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Speaker 1: about five classical music lessons playing my piano, paying piano.

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Speaker 1: And then one day I went to junior high and

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Speaker 1: this guy who was sitting in front of me was

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Speaker 1: to become one of my dearest friends, and he said

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Speaker 1: to me, said, do you like rock and roll? I

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Speaker 1: didn't know what he was talking about. Really, I've never

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Speaker 1: heard it classical music. They keep you pretty strict. How

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Speaker 1: old were you at the time. I was junior high.

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Speaker 1: So it was no Elvis, no Bill Haley, none of

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Speaker 1: that fifties music. It's kind of like being Catholic. You

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, You're not allowed to go to

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Speaker 1: the other You know what I'm saying. Classical people, they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to go and listen to anything. So

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Speaker 1: I said yes, I said, yeah, I like it. But

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Speaker 1: I went home. And the good luck was that Alan

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Speaker 1: Freed was in New York. He brought it from Cleveland

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Speaker 1: to New York. Rock and roll. Sure, remember we did it, man.

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Speaker 1: So I heard all those things those guys from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: the piano players like Fats Domino, Jerry Lewis flipped me out. Man,

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Speaker 1: I said, man, this is so cool. It was the

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Speaker 1: only word I could say. And then that started me.

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Speaker 1: But when you're playing classical piano and you're sequestered in

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Speaker 1: this classical music bubble as a young boy, and you

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Speaker 1: start to appreciate and want to put your toe in

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Speaker 1: the water there in terms of popular music and rock music,

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Speaker 1: you're one of the most famous singers in the history

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Speaker 1: of music. When did the singing. Start just joy, man,

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Speaker 1: just joy. Wow, I'd love to try that, man, how

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Speaker 1: cool would that be. It's just when you start out

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Speaker 1: you start doing other people's songs. I get these phenomenal

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Speaker 1: singers to copy, like Benny King and and Margot Gay.

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Speaker 1: So you do their songs and all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: you say, man, I'm singing these songs man. And then

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Speaker 1: and then if you're lucky, you get a style if

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Speaker 1: you're lucky interesting, But it's just the joy of playing

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Speaker 1: and singing and that music. So Benny King and and

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Speaker 1: and Marvin Gay and any of those people that were

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Speaker 1: your earliest exposure. Radio was your gateway. I'm hearing I'm

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Speaker 1: on the radio, and I'm saying, like, wow, in those days,

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Speaker 1: you didn't have like the computer to tune your voice, right,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. That's why we wanted you

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Speaker 1: on the show because you could actually sing. Those guys

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Speaker 1: that names I've mentioned, and there's so many more, they

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Speaker 1: were phenomenal. Are you kidding me? I mean that these

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Speaker 1: guys singing, you go like ho. And you know, I've

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Speaker 1: had the honor of meeting a lot of these guys,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I just love it so I did it,

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Speaker 1: tried it. Who was the first person that you regarded

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Speaker 1: that you respected their opinion? Who told you you could sing?

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Speaker 1: Who's the person that said to you keep going in

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Speaker 1: that direction? As of vocalists, well, you know, I started

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Speaker 1: off the cat Skills. I had took a band from

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Speaker 1: Syracuse University to the Catskical Mountains. So now you're in college. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm in college. I took a summer off and I

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Speaker 1: literally never went back. And it's a great story because

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Speaker 1: Joey D's band came there and they saw me, and

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Speaker 1: they were in Europe and their organ player quit. So

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Speaker 1: they called me up to join them in Germany, and

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Speaker 1: so I flew and play the organ, play the organ. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I went over there. And the way the story goes,

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Speaker 1: I'm changing the such a little bit. But they were

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Speaker 1: working with this group called the Beatles, and nobody, nobody

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Speaker 1: had heard of them yet. Now I'm a college kid

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Speaker 1: deciding whether I should stay in school or look at

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Speaker 1: all these girls screaming and hollering and what is this?

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Speaker 1: You know? And I remember it vividly here in their music.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, wow, they were singing group. They weren't that

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Speaker 1: good on the at least I didn't really get their

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Speaker 1: music yet. And then when they did arm music, being

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Speaker 1: American music, they were okay. Well, when they did their music,

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Speaker 1: it was like outstanding. So I said, I think I

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Speaker 1: do this. But it was in the Royal Hotel that

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Speaker 1: people started paying attention to me, you know, they said, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: you're pretty good. You're pretty good. You're pretty good. Half

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Speaker 1: of them trying to impress their dates. So when you

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Speaker 1: go to Europe to play the organ for these guys,

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Speaker 1: they asked you to start singing. No, they just asked

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Speaker 1: me to start playing. When when did the singing begin?

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Speaker 1: When do you become the front man? Has a good question. Well,

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Speaker 1: I got a little depressed being a side man, and

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Speaker 1: I met this young lady. Uh we came back to

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Speaker 1: the States, and she said, what's the matter. I said, man,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've always been the front man. I've always

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Speaker 1: been the singer, and uh, you know, I'm sitting way

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Speaker 1: in the back of the group. And she said to me,

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Speaker 1: she said, feel it. You don't think this guy's gonna

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Speaker 1: let you sing, do you? And I said, oh, I

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Speaker 1: get it. So basically, it was just a matter of

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Speaker 1: time before I had to start a band, and there's

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Speaker 1: a long story behind that. We had this wonderful thing

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Speaker 1: called the draft. In those days, they said to me,

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Speaker 1: if aliens attack, we'll call you. Other than that, go

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Speaker 1: back home, because they were a little select off in

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Speaker 1: the beginning. And that's when I started the band because

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Speaker 1: I could. The name of the first band was what Well,

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Speaker 1: I've a number of bands. I had Felix of the Escorts,

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Speaker 1: I had all this kind of thing. But you know,

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Speaker 1: when we got the guys together, that was my plan.

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Speaker 1: Let let me see if I can get the best

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Speaker 1: guys that I can find in the New York area.

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Speaker 1: And I found some really talented guys. Of course, Eddie Briggotti.

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Speaker 1: I was working with his brother, and here's this little

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Speaker 1: guy man sing his tail off, unbelievable dance and singing.

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Speaker 1: Cornish came from Rochester, Gene Cornish, and he was also

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Speaker 1: with Joey d for a while there. And then that

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Speaker 1: same young lady introduced me to Dino Danelli, the drummer,

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Speaker 1: and I saw him play one song at the Metropol

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Speaker 1: in New York. I saw him play one song, I

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Speaker 1: who Have Nothing, and he did it such a show.

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Speaker 1: I said, Man, I gotta ask this cat to join us,

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Speaker 1: and that's how we stuck. Who's the one that sang

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Speaker 1: that song? Tom Jones, who made a hit out of

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Speaker 1: I who have nothing? Jeez, I don't know I who

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Speaker 1: have no song? Great song? So which collection of musicians

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Speaker 1: that you put together? Do you get your first record

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Speaker 1: deal with? Your first record contract comes and who's a board? Well?

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Speaker 1: I got a record contract up to Syracuse, but it

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Speaker 1: was jive. It was just this guy trying to make

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Speaker 1: money off me. And then years later came out they

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Speaker 1: called up the Rascals. This business is something else, man,

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Speaker 1: but the Rascals really was the first major contract. Atlantic

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Speaker 1: Records came out to this place we were working on

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Speaker 1: the island called the Barge in the Hampton's. That was

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Speaker 1: the place we got to offer it to do this

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Speaker 1: job out there. There was this a major discotheque in

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Speaker 1: New York on Dean's and the gentleman who owned that

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Speaker 1: place invited us to do the Barge in the Hampton's

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Speaker 1: for the summer. And I knew growing up near Long

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Speaker 1: Island that the Hamptons was a place where a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who are really important people going to summer.

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Speaker 1: Bettie Davis used to summer out there. It was wild.

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Speaker 1: So I knew that if we were going to get discovered,

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Speaker 1: we were going to get discovered there. And we did.

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Speaker 1: And that's the group that you mentioned in before, the

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Speaker 1: guys you put together, and this would be so now

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Speaker 1: you have the Rascals together, and the Rascals make their

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Speaker 1: first record deal win. Right. Then this gentleman saw us

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Speaker 1: and he knew Sid Bernstein, the promoter who brought the

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Speaker 1: Beatles to the US, and so Sid came out and

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Speaker 1: wanted to manage us. He really helped us. He introduced

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Speaker 1: us to all the right people, and Atlantic was the

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Speaker 1: only label that would allow us to produce ourselves. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to produce ourselves. I didn't I didn't want somebody

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Speaker 1: that I didn't know taking over. Why. Well, I had

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Speaker 1: an idea, you know, I had a musical idea, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I kept saying, too, director, look you like what

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Speaker 1: you heard. That's why you're signing us, give us a shot. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's where the fantastic luck comes in. So Atlantic signs

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Speaker 1: us up and they put us in the studio with

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Speaker 1: two geniuses, Arife Mardin and Tom Dowd. So it was

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Speaker 1: like thank you, as all you can say, because now

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Speaker 1: we had our George Martin. You respected them giants, just

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Speaker 1: absolute giants. And what do they do for a guy

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Speaker 1: like you who you yourself said that you wanted to

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Speaker 1: mention to Atlantic I want to do. I want you

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Speaker 1: to trust me and do my own thing. What do

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Speaker 1: those guys give you? A good producer does what for you?

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Speaker 1: A good producer should bring out what you want to

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Speaker 1: put on in those days tape. You know the words,

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Speaker 1: You've got an idea for a song, right, well, let

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Speaker 1: me help you. Know this guy, Arief Martin, was a Turk.

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Speaker 1: He came over here because what happened was Quincy Jones

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Speaker 1: went to Turkey and on the way to the airport

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Speaker 1: the way I hear it, Aliff somehow got him a cassette.

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Speaker 1: Before Quincy landed back in the United States, he contacted

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Speaker 1: him and asked him to come and join and be

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Speaker 1: a professor at Berkeley. That's how good this guy was.

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Speaker 1: So he ended up producing like Bett Middler. He ended

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Speaker 1: up a Shaka Khan b G's. When you got somebody

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Speaker 1: like that on your team, it's like an encyclopedia of

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Speaker 1: music standing right over here. You know, I like to

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Speaker 1: do a French song. I like to do a song

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Speaker 1: sounds like how can I be sure? Oh, no problem,

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Speaker 1: and he could orchestrate it for your right on this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was just magic. That's what the Beatles

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Speaker 1: had with George Bournon. So the first album you release

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Speaker 1: with those guys is what year I was about? And

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Speaker 1: how did that album do? It? Did? Okay? Okay? So

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Speaker 1: right away there was some appetite for your recorded sound.

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Speaker 1: Is where the good luck came in. Because see, uh,

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Speaker 1: in those days when you worked in the club, everybody

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Speaker 1: was twenty one or over. So the proprietors that they

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Speaker 1: wanted you to do covers, they didn't. They were not

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Speaker 1: interested in the least in anything that you had to say. Originally,

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Speaker 1: I found these songs that people didn't know. I would

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Speaker 1: find them, like, for example, I found Bustanks Sally and

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Speaker 1: I heard this thing on the radio and then I

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Speaker 1: heard this song called good Love. It from the first

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Speaker 1: time we paid Good Loving. Everybody got up and danced,

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Speaker 1: So the first album contained Good Loving. So what they

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Speaker 1: did Atlantic is they put that out as the second signal.

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Speaker 1: It was number one. So all of a sudden, this

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Speaker 1: little obscure bunch of guys coming into the studio guess

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Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

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Speaker 1: We were stars, we were big, so the table turned

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Speaker 1: a little bit and now we got a chance to

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Speaker 1: do our things unproven, totally unproven, and we got lucky.

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Speaker 1: This is how can I Be Sure? Sung by The

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Speaker 1: Rascal's other lead vocalist, Eddie Brigatti. Felix Cavalieri is not

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Speaker 1: the only guest on our show who mentions an individual

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Speaker 1: producer for the success of his recording career. Go to

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Speaker 1: our archives and listen to my conversation with Darryl Hall,

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Speaker 1: who credits the same producer for developing Hall and notes sound.

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Speaker 1: Is there a producer that comes into your life that

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Speaker 1: takes you to the next level, that helps you make

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Speaker 1: the sound that becomes your sound? Yeah, a Reef Morten,

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Speaker 1: the producer arranger behind Donny Hathaway, Aretha Franklin. His his

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Speaker 1: label was in Atlantic, So I was in that world

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Speaker 1: in that scene. I mean, I remember I'm saying to

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Speaker 1: me and John, he said, just make music, We'll figure

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Speaker 1: out how to sell it. Here the rest of my

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Speaker 1: conversation with Darryl Hall at Here's the Thing dot Org

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Speaker 1: after the break Felix Cavalieri talks about the Rascals appearances

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Speaker 1: on The Ed Sullivan Show, and the moment when Eddie

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Speaker 1: Brigotti decided to leave the band. I'm Alec Baldwin and

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Speaker 1: you're listening to Here's the Thing. In nineteen seventy, Rolling

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Speaker 1: Stone magazine dubbed The Rascals the Blackest white group. The

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Speaker 1: Rascals were considered a crossover rock and soul act, popular

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Speaker 1: on both black R and B and white stations. Felix

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Speaker 1: felt a strong connection to black musicians and civil rights,

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Speaker 1: eventually insisting the Rascals would only perform if black acts

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Speaker 1: were on the ticket, a choice that eliminated parts of

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Speaker 1: the country from the Rascals tour schedule. Felix and Eddie

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Speaker 1: Burgotti wrote most of the group's songs, and they were

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Speaker 1: eager to reflect the politics of the time through their music.

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Speaker 1: The industry changed thanks to Bob Dylan and the Beatles

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Speaker 1: and the Stones, and all of a sudden people were writing.

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Speaker 1: Prior to that, we would go to publishers and they

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Speaker 1: would give you songs. Let's tell how Neil Diamond and

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Speaker 1: Carol King started off. But when those guys came out,

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Speaker 1: Now all of a sudden you could write. At least

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Speaker 1: that was the theory. So you have to have a

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Speaker 1: lot of good luck to be able to write and

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Speaker 1: get hit records with the bar up that high. Because

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Speaker 1: those Beatles they had some pretty good songs, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So you want to survive. That's the

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Speaker 1: level of dude, that's where you gotta be. Now, we're

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Speaker 1: in the band as everybody, or are people in pairs

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Speaker 1: or whatever the dynamics are they co writing together or

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Speaker 1: you're all writing your own songs on your own. Did

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Speaker 1: you co write with anybody in the band or outside

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Speaker 1: the band? Yeah? I I co wrote with Eddie because

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Speaker 1: I thought of Lennon McCartney team would be really cool.

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Speaker 1: And I always felt that he was a little better

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Speaker 1: than I was with the lyrics because I was too serious.

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Speaker 1: I put some serious words down there, you know, especially

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Speaker 1: when I got into my political life or whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to call it. I mean, I was a pretty

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Speaker 1: serious guy. Keyboard players have a tendency to be a

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Speaker 1: little less nuts than some of the other guys in

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Speaker 1: the band. Well, let's talk about the political aspect. When

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Speaker 1: when you say he became political, what are you referring to.

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Speaker 1: I started working for Robert Kennedy's campaign, the sixty eight campaign. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of us in those days were involved.

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Speaker 1: We gave a damn about our world. So I got involved.

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Speaker 1: And I was dating this woman at the time who

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Speaker 1: was there at these fascination and man, she was never

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Speaker 1: the same. She wigged out. That's how People Got to

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Speaker 1: Be Free came out. I said, Man, I gotta say something.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why people think that musicians and actors

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Speaker 1: and people are really not allowed to have an opinion.

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Speaker 1: And I say this in my show because you have

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Speaker 1: a right to say something. Now you don't get everybody mad.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Nowadays you got the Dixie Chicks that

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Speaker 1: come out and all of a sudden, everybody blackballs and

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Speaker 1: it's nonsense. So we wrote, I wrote People got to

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Speaker 1: Be Free. And they didn't want to put it at

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Speaker 1: the label. We had control, and you got it out there.

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Speaker 1: That was in our contract. And and so me and Jerry,

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Speaker 1: who actually went head to head. You know, it was

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Speaker 1: a great relationship, man, when I said, we gotta put

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Speaker 1: this out. Man, this is it's just it means something

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Speaker 1: that people know where we're coming from. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time. And you mentioned the Beatles because the Beatles

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Speaker 1: had this happen I think in Florida where they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: play because it was a whites only audience. We had

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Speaker 1: that What was the venue? Where where did all that

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Speaker 1: play out? What happened was Baltimore, I think, and there

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Speaker 1: was this group I think it's called a Young Whole Trio.

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Speaker 1: It was a black group, but they were really black music.

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Speaker 1: They were crossover music. So we were crossed over when

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Speaker 1: we had a hit. We had the R and B

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Speaker 1: stations and the white stations. So these guys came up

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Speaker 1: to the backstage and said, Mr Cavalery Felix, we really

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Speaker 1: like to play for white what it says sometimes? And

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Speaker 1: I says, you know, man, I love to play for

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Speaker 1: black audiences sometimes because they rock. And it hit me,

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Speaker 1: why not let's have a black act opening up for us.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea the trouble because little that I

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Speaker 1: know when we went down South where I'm living now,

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Speaker 1: it's so stupid, you know, I mean, really, you love

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Speaker 1: the music, but you can't come to the shows. I mean,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, did you have any were their protests

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Speaker 1: with them that I got to know stokely car Micha

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Speaker 1: and all those guys. Because they came out to some

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Speaker 1: of the gigs, their promoters wouldn't let us play sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, they wouldn't they wouldn't have the shows I

393
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Speaker 1: went to school with. I don't know if you know

394
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Speaker 1: who Mickey Schwarner was. He was one of those guys

395
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Speaker 1: that went down to Mississippi got killed, Jeney Schwarner and Goodman. Yeah,

396
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Speaker 1: he was in my school. So I got really in

397
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Speaker 1: the beginning of my life for a number of reasons,

398
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Speaker 1: mostly because of our Italian heritage. I got pretty rebelized.

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Speaker 1: I didn't like the way people cheated. Were your parents

400
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Speaker 1: or grandparents victimized by prejudice as immigrants? Absolutely, So you

401
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: carried that with you. I really carried that with me.

402
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Speaker 1: A long story short. You know, my mom was a

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Speaker 1: very educated person, and you know, when we moved to

404
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Speaker 1: Westchester County, there weren't too many of us around in

405
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Speaker 1: those days, and they really insulted her. It was a

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Speaker 1: long story, but very simply, she wanted to join this club,

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Speaker 1: this flower club whatever it was. They said, oh, certainly

408
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 1: we could use somebody to serve lunch. And I said,

409
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Speaker 1: what did you say, come back here. So I hit

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Speaker 1: this cord a long time ago, and I don't like it,

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Speaker 1: and I don't like it today because I I don't understand,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that you know, as you know,

413
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Speaker 1: our nation right now, it's pretty divided. I don't understand that.

414
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Speaker 1: Somebody's gonna explain to me. To me, it's like people

415
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: are either going to embrace the change or the change

416
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Speaker 1: is gonna come down on top of them. But when

417
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Speaker 1: you say that your girlfriend at the time, she worked

418
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Speaker 1: on the Kennedy campaign, right around the time you're starting

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Speaker 1: to really make it in the business, they refer to

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Speaker 1: you as a very black white band, the black sounding

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Speaker 1: white band. Correct. I start to hear a bit of that. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: We were the first white act on the Red and

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Speaker 1: Black Atlantic label. And you know, the best story I

424
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: have his otis reading Man because in those days they

425
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,719
Speaker 1: didn't quite especially in Atlantic, they didn't have the barriers

426
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 1: up like recording do not enter. So he came knocking

427
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: on the door one day, looks and he goes, oh

428
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 1: my god, they are white. They didn't know. There was

429
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: no videos per se in those days. They didn't know.

430
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: And of course to me that was like very cool

431
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: thing because we're walking around the whole with guys that

432
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 1: guy I have every record they ever made, Sam and

433
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: Dave and Benny King and some of these jazz greats.

434
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: They're all walking the halls of Atlantic Records, and so

435
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: am I. So I felt it was pretty cool. I

436
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. And you do Sullivan? What year you

437
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: guys were on Sullivan twice? We were about five or

438
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: six times. You really I had to tell said, you

439
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: know enough because we're over exposing. Yeah, that was a

440
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: real interesting let me tell you right, I'll never forget.

441
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: One of the best books I ever read to appreciate

442
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: these seems to the timeline and the seems in the

443
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: timeline of the business was Nick Tosh's biography of Dean Martin. Yes,

444
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: and man, you can't believe how you see that line

445
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: where Elvis comes along and Dean Martin says, I'm doing

446
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: what Bing Crosby did, and now Elvis is doing what.

447
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: It's like a line Bing Crosby, Dean Martin, Elvis. The

448
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: style is a little different, the lyrics are different, songs

449
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: are different, but crooning is crooning, and it's hard to

450
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: believe for people to understand that the guy of Sullivan's background,

451
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: who was really the staple of the vaudeville era. Well,

452
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: he was a journalist. He was a columnist, columnist, and

453
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: he wrote an entertainment column like a you know, army archer.

454
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: And he's this unlikely gate keeper. He's such an unlikely figure.

455
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: He's the skinny little guy who's you know, this weird

456
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: style of talking for people who were obviously talking to

457
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: people who don't know Sullivan, which I'm sure most people do.

458
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: And yet these emerging acts, including the Beatles, of course,

459
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: use that show as the platform to becoming really famous

460
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,239
Speaker 1: in the United States. The show and you guys did

461
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: that show five times? Yes, what was that? Like? This

462
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: is an experience because we had to be there six

463
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: actually seven days a week. We started on Monday at

464
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: seven am, and you know, we we kind of run through,

465
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: run through, run through. One through was very strictly run

466
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: Saturday night we did a live show with no TV,

467
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: but there was an audience, and then Sunday we do

468
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: the real thing, and the real thing. He screwed it

469
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: up every time because he would see someone in the

470
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: audience that he knew, and as he was getting older,

471
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: he'd lose his place and there you go. Now you

472
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: just lost fifteen twenty seconds. Where we're going to get

473
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: it from. We're going to get it from. Oh yeah,

474
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: and Jackie Mason, you can tell you that story. It

475
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: was really exciting because it was live, not taped live.

476
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: He didn't know how to deal with us, our generations

477
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: of you know, I could tell that he really wasn't

478
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: too fond a lot of them. He really because I

479
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: got into this thing with his staff because after a while,

480
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: the rock bands became like the draw for the show.

481
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: You know, you want to do the kids want to

482
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: see the beginning. In the end, he created a monster. However,

483
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: the dressing rooms did not show that. I said, no,

484
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: wait a second. Now, this guy over here, he's about

485
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, he's got a whole floor,

486
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, and we're over here in this closet. I said,

487
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,239
Speaker 1: that's not gonna work. It was too much. It was

488
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: too much. Man Like. I remember my dad. You know,

489
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: my dad was a dentist. You could not be any

490
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: more conservative than my dad. It was impossible. Do you

491
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: remember show that was? The week that was? It was

492
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: just lovely blonde. I think her name was Nancy. My

493
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: dad really liked her. He liked her. She was on

494
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: the show with us. So I said, Dad, come on

495
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: into the come on into the green room, and here

496
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: he is, right standard. It was so much fun, his dream,

497
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: so much fun. Man Like, I said, that's the shame

498
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,959
Speaker 1: of where our group broke up, because we we had

499
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: a lot of fun, you know, a bunch of crazy kids.

500
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: And when you say the shame of the way the

501
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: group broke up described that if you will to the

502
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: extent that you can. Well, it was really a sad

503
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: situation because here we are, we were free agents. We

504
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: were going from Atlantic to Colombia, and Colombia in those

505
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: days was an international label. Atlantic had just become an

506
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: international label when Zeppelin got there. They signed up with

507
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. Now they were an international label, but prior

508
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: to that it was a little difficult for us in

509
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: Europe and other countries because we had a different record company.

510
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: Is that why you went to Columbia? Yes, And at

511
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: the signing Eddie Briggott he just decided that he doesn't

512
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: want to do this anymore. That's nice. There's a contract

513
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: on the table. What should I tell them? And that

514
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: started like this kind of like real negativity that happened.

515
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: It actually started before that. What do you think it was?

516
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: Why was he unhapped? What did he want to do?

517
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: What direction did he want to go in? I don't

518
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: think it had anything to do with any of that.

519
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: I think that some people can live like a gypsy

520
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: and some people can't. Eddie was extremely attached to his family.

521
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: Where did he live? Where was his home? He's a

522
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: Joysey guy, he's New Jersey, lived in Jersey guy. We

523
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: had two jerseys. He just didn't want it. He just

524
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: didn't want to travel anymore. He was an unhappy camper.

525
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: And it's so funny because he had more fun than

526
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: all of us put together on the road. He was

527
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: a wild man. So I don't know. I was really

528
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: saddened by it because the car we lost a wheel,

529
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, and it was really tough to keep spinning.

530
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: And he left right then left at the signing and

531
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: he didn't come back. He did not come back. And

532
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: you've never done reunions with him, nothing, Well, we did

533
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: a reunion. We did a reunion, so he so he

534
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: would come back and and do and stick his toe

535
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: in there. Wow, he came back forty years five years later. Really, yeah,

536
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: Steve van Zand had this idea to to do something

537
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: with us, and so he contacted us. All actually was,

538
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: it was an interesting situation. We started off with that

539
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: cancer program that Kristen Carr I think it is that

540
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,239
Speaker 1: Bruce and he does, and unfortunately one of my one

541
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: of my girls, had that and so I said when

542
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: he asked us if we would do a reunion, we

543
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: did it. And then from there I was able to

544
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: get some real good help for my kid. And after

545
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: that that he wanted to do this Broadway show kind

546
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: of ideas, so we did. That was goal Once upon

547
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: a Dream. That was the last time we worked together

548
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: as proxy two thirteen. What's interesting to me is when

549
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: you see people have this good thing and they have

550
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: a good chemistry, and not all of them, but some

551
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: of them move on to other acts which don't replicate

552
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: that success. Yeah, it's it's tough. Sound is not the same,

553
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: and so you replace him with who We tried to

554
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: put together something else. I I did a complete, you know, turn,

555
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: and I found some really talented guys. We did two

556
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: albums on Columbia that were pretty good albums. They were

557
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: more jazz oriented, a little bit more open because at

558
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: that time we were jumping into the FM world rather

559
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: than the A M with the hits hits hits. It

560
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: just wasn't the same, you know, because you know, a

561
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: group is a group. But I mean it's just so silly.

562
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that you don't break up a

563
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: winning team. Now, you notice a lot of the groups,

564
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: especially the English groups, they stay together. They may not

565
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: really get along that well, but they stayed together. That's

566
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: something that I've always kind of been I'm sorry about,

567
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: you know, I wish we could have remained friends. So

568
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: the year that you're at the signing and Eddie splits,

569
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,959
Speaker 1: what year is a nineteen sevent you proxibly? Yeah, nineteen

570
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: seventy fifty years ago, A long time ago, man, what

571
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: I'm saying. But when you have a contract on the table,

572
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: you have a contract in front of you. In order

573
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: to fulfill that contract, who takes at the's place? Well,

574
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: we I brought a fellow in that I thought it

575
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: could help, and then we changed the group entirely, you know,

576
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: And and Clive Davis, he gave us the benefit of

577
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: the dot. He said, well let's keep going. You know. Actually,

578
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a shame, you know, because so

579
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: we had a good thing going. We had a good team,

580
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: and the team was good, you know, but you know,

581
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: things happened. I'm sure it's happened to many people in

582
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: many businesses. They have these partnerships and these situations and

583
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you know, it just doesn't

584
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: work out. For what reason. I can't answer that. I mean,

585
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: we had no embezzling, Nobody took anybody's wife. You know,

586
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: there was nothing, you know, really, I don't think we

587
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: really had any drug problems that I was aware of.

588
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: Just the stupidity when you're coming up and you're performing

589
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,719
Speaker 1: in the sixties, when you guys really break out. Everything

590
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: is radio. When I bought a Sony transistor radio with

591
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: the old earpiece, the individual earpiece you'd plug in so

592
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: I could play music under the covers of my bed

593
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: at night, when I'm like fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old,

594
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: and I'm listening to Build Me Up, Buttercup and all together,

595
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: a m hits of the sixties. When did you begin

596
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: to sense that the music business was changing in terms

597
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: of content? Right after wood Stock? Wood Stock was the

598
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: beginning of the end, because the big guys came in

599
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: the corporations. Ah ha, there's an audience here, let's go

600
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: get them. And they did. See and then what was

601
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: a you know, mon pop business, you know, turned into

602
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: a conglomerate business, which is you know where we are today.

603
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: You know, Let's see now, now, who put this group together?

604
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: I think God put this group together. How about if

605
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: I try it, we could put together a super group.

606
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: Will just match them up, that's all. It doesn't work

607
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: like that, you know. And then you know, little things

608
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: like you know, you know, we used to have illegal payola,

609
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: Well how about legal commercials. I can buy fifteen minutes

610
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: of your time, can't I? And I can do what

611
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: I want. It's progressed to the point of where we

612
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: have that what do you call, I hate to say,

613
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: a Patriot Act? And you know, we can now buy

614
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: our way into whatever we want. That's what happens to

615
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: the music business. However, I always feel the talent such

616
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: as Prince Elton John there's gonna be a lot more

617
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: people like that coming around, and and they will buck

618
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: this system, you know, and they will they will be

619
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: known and famous because they're so darned good. That's that's

620
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: how I believe. So it's not that I'm all, you know,

621
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: coming from a negative point of view, but I think

622
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: the corporations really took the charm, you know. I mean

623
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: like for example, when we used to travel around the US.

624
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: We go to New Orleans, we hear New Orleans music.

625
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: We go to l A, we hear Beach music. It's

626
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: all the same. Everybody's get the same play lists. It's

627
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: like driving down the interstate and all the restaurants are

628
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: the same and every where. Am I Yeah, we've lost

629
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: the indigenous flavor because you know what what you were

630
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: saying about, you know, with your transistor radio. You see

631
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: the people who are around in those days, they all

632
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: have that joy of listening to the music, just like

633
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: you did. We all have that, you know what I mean.

634
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: It's like Ringo, like when he gets on stage, you

635
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: gotta pull him off the stage. He doesn't need to

636
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: be on stage for God, He's just it's in his soul,

637
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: you know. And and that's that's the type of people.

638
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: Like we go around with the zombies and people like that.

639
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: They want to play and man, I'm missing I'll tell you,

640
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, I'm really looking forward to getting back out

641
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: there to You should see the Rascals singer and keyboard

642
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: player Felix Cavalieri. If you're enjoying this episode, please follow

643
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing on the I Heart Radio app, Apple

644
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and while you're there,

645
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: we'd love for you to leave us a review. When

646
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: we return from the break, Felix Cavalieri talks about producing

647
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: artists like Laura Nero and why he always ends up

648
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: back out on the road. Simple a man understanding. I'm

649
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Since

650
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: we were both raised on rock and roll, I want

651
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: to to know if Felix remembers the first time he

652
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: heard the Rascals on his transistor radio. First smash it

653
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: was good loving, But the first time we heard ourselves

654
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: on the radio was we were in New York. We're

655
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: all living together in this hotel in New York, and

656
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: cousin Brucie played I Ain't going out in my heart

657
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: anymore seventies seven w ABC, and you know he's back

658
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: there now, he's he's back a yeah, yeah, he's in

659
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: his eighties. He's still rocking. Man, he's still gone. You

660
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: believe God, bless you know what, that's the real deal there, man.

661
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: So shout out to him, man, because he's a good

662
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: man to the first time you hear it. I mean

663
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: we were walking on the street with that same little

664
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: transistor radio. Oh my god, it was so cool. What

665
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: song it was? I ain't going to addit my heart anymore.

666
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes I'm walking in like you know,

667
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: Publix or one of the supermarkets, and and I hear

668
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: one of my songs and I go, that's cool. They

669
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: don't know, man, that's me up there. Bro, that's so beautiful.

670
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: It's it's thrill. When you would record or when you

671
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: would perform live, was there a ritual for you? What

672
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: did you do? Wait? Did you Did you wake up

673
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: and you were ready? You know, man, you wake up

674
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: when you're ready, you know. I mean, like I said,

675
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: we we had a ritual. But the ritual also included,

676
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: you know, the writing of this song, that the recording

677
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: of the song, the producing of the song, and the

678
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: playing of the song. Because we played our own instruments,

679
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 1: you know, we we only had one extra guy, which

680
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: because we didn't have a bass player. You know, I

681
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: had a bass player on my foot, you know, in

682
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: the organ so when we went in, yeah, you had

683
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: to be ready. You are you producing now? Are you

684
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: writing songs down there and producing down there? Well? I

685
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: was trying to before all this happened. I you know,

686
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: we got some really really talented people around here. This

687
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: is really cool. It's a great place for for musicians,

688
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: you know, and and up and coming people. The problem

689
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: is that, you know, I don't want to tune anybody up.

690
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: I want them to be able to sing. I mean

691
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 1: computer enhance. Yeah, and so that that limits a lot

692
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: of it, so lest of them can really deliver the

693
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: goods absolutely. That's why you got that big doing not

694
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: enter side recording. You don't want to hear this, and

695
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: it's just as too bad. What are some of the

696
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: other acts over these past several years? Have you've been

697
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 1: down there? Thirty years? Down there? You did produce people

698
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: like Laura Nero? Correct, yes, out did that association give

699
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: made who brought you together? Her manager was a gentleman

700
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: by her name of David Geffen. He also managed Janie

701
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 1: and I think he managed Crosby Stills in Dares and

702
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: and let me tell you something, he was really a

703
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: good manager. And he invited me, he says how would

704
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: you like to meet the most difficult person you've ever met?

705
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: I said, Wow, I can hardly wait. He says, Laura

706
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: has mentioned you many times. She really enjoys your work.

707
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: Would would you like to produce Laura? Near? It was

708
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: life changing event. She was the coolest lady I've remember

709
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: my life. Ah man. She was so talented, complete opposite

710
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: of what we're talking about, Like she could care less

711
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: if she sold a record. She just wanted to make art.

712
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: That was her thing. For example, I called up our reef,

713
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: I said, a Reef, I I got this great opportunity

714
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: to produced this. Jim, would you like to join me?

715
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,479
Speaker 1: Would you like to help me? And he said yeah.

716
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: Because you know, it's interesting in those days, he was

717
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: working for almad Organ and those guys over Atlantic, and

718
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: they didn't realize that they had a complete, absolute diamond

719
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: in the rough with this guy. So when he when

720
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: I took him out of there and and we went

721
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: over to Columbia to produce Laura, they immediately made him

722
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: a vice president. But you know, immediately they put him

723
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: on the big time payroll. But anyway, what happened basically

724
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: is that she just had a kind of almost like

725
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: another century outlook on things like if she was born

726
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: a hundred years ago, would have made a lot of

727
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: sense where she was at. You know, how much did

728
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: you work with her? You did one album with her,

729
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: I worked as I did. I did two albums with her, Uh,

730
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: the second one. I was kind of brought in as

731
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: a relief mechanism because she was kind of getting a

732
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: little bit too far out or too far in really,

733
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: because she didn't even want to go to the studios anymore.

734
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: She wanted to work out of her home. So I

735
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: was called into kind of finish a couple of projects her.

736
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: But what a talent. But did you sense then or

737
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: did you a sense later on that you could have

738
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: had a career just producing people like that. Yeah, yeah,

739
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: I think I could have done that as well. But

740
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: you know, as I say, you didn't want that. You

741
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: didn't want to pass it on, so to speak. I

742
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: love getting on stage and singing and playing. Man. You know,

743
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to get that out of your system,

744
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: especially when people want to hear you. You know, if

745
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: you work and nobody comes out to see it, okay,

746
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: but you know they were, they were coming out, and

747
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 1: I decided let me keep doing that and producing also

748
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: became something again. Now it's a huge industry now as

749
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, it's taken precedence over the actual

750
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: song and in some cases the singer because the production

751
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: could be so maddening good that it's a hit, you know,

752
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 1: And and a lot of it is done in the

753
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: box in a computer. Who's the cream that's rising to

754
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: the top? Now in the music business, is there anybody

755
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: you like? Oh, they're coming there, They're come up there.

756
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: There's so much talent out There's ridiculous thing, is it's

757
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 1: just this, so much out there? How do you try

758
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: to tune into what's going on? Too much? It's impossible.

759
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: There's good things, like I'm talking about streaming, but there's

760
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: good things about streaming. I mean, like, for example, I

761
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: had a phenomenal record collection. You know, I used to

762
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: not have lunch, man. I would go up and buy

763
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, like the music, and you know, it all burnt.

764
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: I had a big fire. It all it's all gone,

765
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: So so did Orbison. That's so funny. Yeah, we were

766
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: Royce House in Malibu burned and he lost all his

767
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: archive and I had like classical stuff, man, I mean,

768
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: I had phenomenal. Where did that happen? Where was the

769
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: house I was in? I was in Tennessee, you know,

770
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 1: down here to Tennessee. My kids, your house, their court fire. Yeah,

771
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: like my kids left the fluorescent light on and but anyway,

772
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: thank god, nobody got hurt. My granddaughter was there and

773
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, we were okay. Everything was good except for

774
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: the house. How many kids do you have? I had five.

775
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: I already lost one of my kids, and I don't

776
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: want to ever do that again. You know, it's a

777
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: it's a tough thing. You lost one of your kids.

778
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: My daughter, yeah, she uh as the reason we did

779
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: that cancer foundation. She she had it. She had cancer

780
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: Long Island. You know how old was she passed away?

781
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: She was how I'm so sorry. That's horrible, or any

782
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: of them in the business at all. Thank god. No,

783
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: now they got the idea. They get it. You know.

784
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: I've got a couple of my daughters. I mean, they're

785
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: really excellent singers, but you know, they she tried, she

786
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: wanted to New York and got beat up immediately and said,

787
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna go and raise a family, you know,

788
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: but but go back if you wouldn't tell me so

789
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: so the house catches fire, horrible tragedy, and you lost

790
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: your record collection, and I lost my Hall of Fame trophy.

791
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: They won't even give me another one in the rock

792
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame. I lost all that stuff.

793
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: They wouldn't give you another rock and Roll Hall of

794
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: Fame trump. No, no no, no, because so many people seldom

795
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: I'm not asking you to choose one, but among the many,

796
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: you would choose. If you could take an album out

797
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: of that old vinyl collection, if we could restore that

798
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: vinyl collection, and you could put an album on a

799
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: turntable and laid back and play some music that would

800
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: transport you, what would you put on the turn? Well,

801
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, seriously, as as I learned to appreciate, you know,

802
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: the music comes out of, you know, the classical world,

803
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: i'd have to say, somebody from the from that world,

804
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, like you would play classical music. Yeah, because

805
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: first of all, I want to stay alive for that

806
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: forty five minutes an already hear it, none of these

807
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: three minutes songs. Who was among your favorite classical composers? Oh,

808
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: the pianists, the Chopin's and Schubert's and oh man, As

809
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: I say that there's something about the lack of lyric

810
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: that transports you to a different place. I'll tell you, man,

811
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: I did a symphony with my music here down in Nashville.

812
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: We've got an excellent symphon extra here. And it was

813
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: really really an honor, a treat for me to do that.

814
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: You put you performed with them. I performed with the

815
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: seventy piece orchestra. Where did you play? I paid my

816
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: whole repertoire everything, or you played your music with that?

817
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: I did all my music. It was fantastic. It's just

818
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,479
Speaker 1: something after all these years to bring that back. Those

819
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: guys been around a long time. Man. That's good music,

820
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: really good music. But you know what you're saying, and

821
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: I see the joy when you're speaking about that little

822
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: transistor radio. That's how it is when I'm playing for

823
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: my audiences out there. That's what we had, was that connection,

824
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: that musical connection. People really loved that music. It's part

825
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: of your soul, It's part oh yeah, oh yeah. Man.

826
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: So I try to connect everybody like that, make them sing,

827
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: you make them feel together, like when you do it

828
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: to Billy Jones, Madison is going, I know every word,

829
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: every word. Come on many that that's magic. I wish

830
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: I could come see your shows because a lot of

831
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: your songs I know every where too. There you go,

832
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: we'll get there, yeah, exactly when this is over. Thanks

833
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: for doing this with us, Matt, thank you, thank you

834
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: with you on a Sunda afternoon. Felix Cavalieri of the Rascals.

835
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing

836
00:43:55,320 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: from my Heart radio. I can't imagine anything that the

837
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: world as ours whenever went to in a place I

838
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: like to be, it stead a bood, she's down, a

839
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: crowded halling you to it, and a thing we likes

840
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: to do. It's only lots of things that we can see.

841
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: We can't be anywhere. We're elected, all the happy people

842
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: we did me to do that. I'm a Sunday afternoon feah.

843
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: I couldn't get away too soon. No no, no no