WEBVTT - How To Become More Assertive (And Why It's Important) | TBT 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.440 Welcome to Cultivating her Space. I'm doctor Don, a college 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 professor and licensed psychologist. 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:11.280 And I'm Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. Every Friday, 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:16.439 we initiate authentic conversations on everything from fibroids to fake 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.000 friends and sex work to self care. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.480 Join us as we create a safe space where black 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.639 women can just be. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:27.440 All right, lady, let's get into it. 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:40.080 Our quote of the day comes from Serena Williams. I 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.319 think of the next girl who is going to come 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:47.320 along who looks like me, and I hope, maybe, just 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:49.479 maybe my voice. 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:49.840 Will help her. 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.760 Let that sit for a moment, because our topic for 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:01.240 today is about assertiveness, So let's that sink in for 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:07.080 a moment. I think of the next girl who is 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:13.640 going to come along, who looks like me, and I hope, maybe, 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:19.120 just maybe my voice will help her. All Right, you 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.200 ready to dive into talking about assertiveness. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.560 Let's do it. Let's do it. So when I think 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.120 about assertiveness, it makes me think about what I was 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:31.120 taught about assertiveness growing up. In my voice and for 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:35.840 me personally, I feel like I talk about this all 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.399 the time, but I think it's so a childhood I'm 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.039 learning as an adult. Childhood really does shape who you 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.320 become as an adult. And I realize now that you know, 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.200 growing up and being abused and being taught that my 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.000 voice doesn't matter, that has presented so many challenges for 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.680 me as an adult, as a black woman, right, And 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:58.080 so I am constantly finding that I am unlearning and 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.960 relearning the ways in which I should be showing up 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.280 in the world to hold space for myself and my 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.880 voice and state how I feel and not adapt to 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.080 the feelings of others around me because that's what I 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.680 was accustomed to. And so when I think of a certiveness, 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.520 I don't I don't know. I feel like I'm torn. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.560 And there were moments where I remember my voice didn't matter, 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:20.840 But then there were other moments where I was empowered 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.359 to use my voice. And I know when I was younger, 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.560 when it came to my body and when it came 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.760 to me being uncomfortable, my mom taught me to like 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.240 speak up in those situations, right, so to tell her 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.880 if someone you know touched me or made me feelun comfortable. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:37.600 So I do remember that, but at the same time, 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:41.200 I got mixed messages because on another hand, in certain instances, 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.800 my voice didn't matter, and so as an adult, I 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:45.760 was kind of torn between these two, and I feel 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:50.360 like I gravitated toward my voice doesn't matter. I won't 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.600 speak up. I'll just take it. I'll just be quiet. 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.880 I don't want to, you know, ruffle feathers. I don't 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.760 want to offend anyone. And so even today, I'm still 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.080 learning and encouraging myself to speak up when I feel something, 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.840 and my method and my comfort level is to do 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.160 so in a peaceful way, unless I got to turn 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.800 up on somebody is there. You know, sometimes people make 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.400 you turn up. You got to turn up, But I 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.800 typically try to remain tactful, professional and do it in 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.760 that way. So yeah, I am still working on that today. 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.240 But this is definitely a topic that is important for 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:28.359 us considering, you know, who we are and the stereotypes 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:29.800 that come along with being black women. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.240 I can totally relate and understand that. You know, I 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.920 think about my own experiences, and you know you would 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.280 think that, Okay, well, she's a therapist, so she knows 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:47.480 this right. And even for you, we know that you 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:51.640 have your degree in conflict resolution, So the assumption is 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.880 that we both know how to do this, that it 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.760 should just come naturally. The reality is that it doesn't. 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:06.480 That for me, it's a similar experience of I had 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:13.680 role models who were very assertive and could be in 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:19.880 some instances perceived as aggressive, constantly use their voice, never 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.720 afraid to use their voice, and then I had other 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:30.320 role models who had a quiet way of using their voice. 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.600 And so for me, it was a balance of trying 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.280 to figure out, well, when do I use my voice? 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.719 So I found that there were times when I would 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:46.120 use my voice in that assertive way when I got angry, 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:48.920 and usually that. 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:50.360 Meant that it would come out as aggressive. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.280 And we'll talk a little bit later about how to 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:58.600 differentiate between assertiveness and aggressiveness, right, But. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:01.120 I learned to. 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.839 Kind of take things in a lot and not use 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.200 my voice. So then that's how I ended up on 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:13.120 that more aggressive side. And so I know just from 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.440 conversations with different friends and other people in my life, 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:23.720 that a lot of us have similar experiences, especially being 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.719 black women. When there's the stereotype of the angry black woman, 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:33.080 right that the automatic assumption is that when we stand 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:38.160 up for ourselves that it's got to be because we're angry, 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:44.400 or if we're angry, then it's a problem and that 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:45.640 our anger. 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.599 Is not rightfully justified. 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.279 And people either there's situations that I can think of, 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.320 you know, in the public eye where black women have 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:02.000 asserted themselves and it's become problem for the people around them. 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.280 And they assert themselves in the same way that maybe, 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.120 let's say, their white counterparts might write typically white men, 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.160 but then when the black woman does it, it's a 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:12.960 big issue. And I think you have a really good 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.520 example that you were sharing earlier too, don with me. 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:17.040 Yeah, I was, we were. 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.400 Our quote of the day came from Serena Williams and 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:26.039 it came specifically from the Harper's Bizarre article that recently 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:27.839 came out and will have the link in the show 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:30.440 notes so other people can check it out. But she 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:37.280 was opening up about her experience in twenty eighteen September 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:42.880 twenty eighteen when she stood up for herself in a 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:48.880 game that where Naomi Osaka won, and for her, that 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:53.080 experience cost her a lot of anxiety, and she actually 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.680 in the article mentioned that she went to therapy to 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:03.960 process what she was experiencing because her level of asserting herself, 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.160 her need to assert herself because she was being wronged 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:12.040 in that moment, had her feeling guilty about taking away 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:17.280 from Naomi's big win. And in the article, they also 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.080 mentioned that the media did a really good job of 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.400 putting the two of them against one another, which commonly 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:30.000 happens when women in workspaces stand up for themselves. 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.520 It's a perception that. 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:38.400 If one woman is standing up for herself, then it's 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:42.040 got to be to slight the other woman. And so 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.480 I just get frustrated when I hear those types of 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:52.880 situations because what it does is for those women who 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.680 might not be comfortable with being assertive, it sends the 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:00.360 message that it's not okay to be assertive. When's the 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:06.000 message that you're wrong. It sends the message that your thoughts, 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.040 your opinions, your feelings are not valid and are not 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:12.880 valued in this space. 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.320 That's a really good point. I'm just kind of taking 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.800 that on, taking that all in, like, what does it 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:21.600 even mean to be assertive? Right cause I feel like 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.440 sometimes people get assertive and aggressive mixed up. And so 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.560 by doing our research, we've defined assertive as showing a 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.440 confident and see this even says showing a confident or 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.760 forceful personality, which to me sounds a bit off putting, right, 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.559 But it could also just mean being decisive, being bold, 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:46.240 being self assured. So I think it varies when it 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.880 comes to how assertiveness looks on different people. Right, you 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:50.920 could still be direct and say what you mean to 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.440 me when you say and be assertive, right, And so 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.160 I think about I went to the nail shop today 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.320 and a woman came in and she I wouldn't even 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:00.600 say she was assertive. I think she would just rude, 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.560 but she basically came in and said, can you do 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.520 my nail? You know, I called and they said you 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.240 would be free at eleven, and she's like, how long 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:09.800 is the wait? And so the woman she was talking 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.120 to was like, she said, oh, just pick out your 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:13.559 color and have a seat. She's like, no, I need 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:14.880 to know how long is the wait because I have 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.760 a flight. And she said, well, what's the issue sept 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.199 with the other girl besides her doing a step job 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.280 on my nails? Like she was just really she was 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.880 upset clearly, and she even said like I'm pissed. But 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.800 in my opinion, she may have been assertive plus aggressive 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.600 right in that case. Now, when the woman was doing 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.000 my nails, I noticed that I be on it. When 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:36.920 they're filing them nails, I'm like, all right, I'm looking 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:38.400 at them to make sure they match. I'm like, okay, 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.559 this one's crooked. So when she was doing my nails, 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.559 I just said, can you file you know these two 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.640 because they're a little crooked. And so she did that, 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.880 and I feel like that's being assertive right there, just 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:49.640 saying what you mean, meaning what you say, and kind 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:50.960 of advocating for yourself. 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:53.600 And so, well, let's talk about that a little bit, right, 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.839 because I think that we do confuse assertive and aggressive, 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:02.080 and sometimes someone can be be they might be trying 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.960 to be assertive and it's coming across as rude, and 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.679 so we want to think about you know, we constantly 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:13.480 have conversations where we think about intent versus impact, right, 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:18.840 and so her intent may not have been to be rude, 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:23.920 but the impact she had was that she appeared rude. 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.800 And so if we step back and we think about, well, 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:31.960 what made her asserting herself? Because I've had situations where 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.320 my nails have been messed up and I'm like, all right, no, 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.000 I need to go back in and I need to 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:43.040 communicate that y'all mess this up. Y'all need to fix 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:47.920 this or I've had situations where I've made an appointment 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.760 knowing that I'm on a short time crunch, And so 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.400 as you were saying that, I was like, damn, I 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:56.800 think I've been that woman. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.800 Where I walk into the nail shop and I. 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:03.240 Have flight and I'm like, listen, I made my nail 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:04.480 appointment for five. 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.560 It's five. I know that being. 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:12.680 Here takes two hours, and my flight I need to 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.560 be headed to the airport by seven point thirty, so 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.160 I don't have two and a half hours to wait. Arount, like, 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.520 I need to be done recognizing that it's about my stuff, right, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.000 And so when I go into that situation, how I 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.720 would approach it. If I'm approaching it from an assertive perspective, 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:36.160 then I'm recognizing that I'm focused on my time, and 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:41.120 if my time is something that is the highest priority 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.679 for me, then I also need to be mindful that. Okay, 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.360 so I'm going to go in and I'm going to say, hey, 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.720 this is the amount of time that I have. I 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.960 made my appointment for five with the expectation that I'm 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.280 going to be out in two hours, because that's how 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.560 long it normally takes. If I see that there's going 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.160 to be any variation, then I can inquire about what's 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:09.640 causing the variation, like what's causing the delay, And then 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.040 at that moment, I can make the decision do I 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:18.720 want to wait and risk being pushed for time or 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:23.400 do I want to say, you know what, I see 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.280 that clearly my time is going to be pushed. My 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:30.040 time is not like, for whatever reason, my time is 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:31.480 not going to go the way I wanted it to. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:33.839 Maybe I need to either not get my nails done 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:40.079 right now, or I need to go somewhere else right. 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:44.679 And it's also like contextual because even in that moment, 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.920 she's saying that she's coming back because they messed up before. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.360 So even if we were to initially look at that 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.440 situation and say, well, she should have planned better, She 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.520 shouldn't be making a nail appointment to two hours before 0:12:58.520 --> 0:12:59.800 she needs to be at the airport. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.640 No to self, let me not do that again in life. 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:06.640 Right, But that wasn't a part of her original plan 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.720 coming into the nail shop right before an appointment. It 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:14.080 sounds like she came in at an appropriate time considering 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:14.880 her schedule. 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:16.880 Right, she had practiced some good time. 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:21.680 Management, and now this is a deviation to what she 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.360 initially planned. So when we think about the context of 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:31.120 she's coming in, had initially respected her time, and now 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.480 she's coming in on something that she didn't plan on, 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:39.880 that she didn't anticipate. So she's stressed and she's like, listen, 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:42.480 y'all messed up my nails already. 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.360 I need y'all to be trying to be more accommodating 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:46.040 towards me. 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.520 In that context, I see where her need to be 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.480 assertive could come across as being rude. 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.800 That makes sense that I think about when you were 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.280 saying that, and made me think about in situations where 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.760 you being rude, it's probably the most appropriate, you know, 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.520 disposition to have based on the circumstance and the context. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.720 And so I think that it's in I don't know, 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:11.920 I think sometimes it's important to consider the context, like 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:13.360 you said, and if she did come before, I think 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.160 she actually said it was her second time coming back, 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.520 And so when you consider all that, it's like, you 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.920 know what, there are definitely situations where I've been super 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:21.480 pissed and I'm like, yo, I just want you to 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.440 do this shit the right way so I can get 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.280 on with my day. So I get it now, that 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.040 makes sense. I do think that there's there are like 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.040 different brands of assertiveness and it kind of makes me 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.400 think about Jammel Hill, and so I think this was 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.400 in what twenty seventeen or she. 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.720 Had posted my twek last year, That's. 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.760 What I thought. But this article that I found, since 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:44.200 it was posted in October of twenty seventeen, but I 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:45.680 feel like that was in twenty eighteen. 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.520 Who it was the last The last couple of years 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.760 have been pretty rough on black right, but in terms 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.720 of how they attack our willingness to be assertive. 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:59.800 You know. What happened was Jammel Hill from ESPN had 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.760 tweet and the tweet says something along the lines of 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:09.360 Donald Trump is a white supremacist who is largely who 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.080 surrounds himself with white supremacists or something like that. And 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.960 Trump ended up tweeting about her saying that, oh, this 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:22.680 must be why ESPN's ratings are low. And then ESPN 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.640 they ended up firing her because they said that she 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.800 had she didn't abide by their social media guidelines or 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:31.840 something like that. And when you think about it, what 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.320 she did was she was assertive, she spoke truth to power, 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.760 and because they didn't like what she said and who 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.120 had bothered they let her go. Talented woman who does 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:41.880 a great job at what you know, what she was 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.440 doing there. And it's like, because she used her voice 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.960 and used her platform to speak truth to power, because 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.320 what she said was the truth and they didn't like it, 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.120 It's like, oh, now we have to police you because 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.360 we don't like the truth that you're speaking, you know. 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.200 And so and I want to point out that she 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:07.240 wasn't fired immediately after that, right, there were multiple instances 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:12.120 where she has spoke where she spoke out, where she 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.600 used her voice about Trump or in general. And the 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.000 thing is, the thing that comes up for me with 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:24.280 that is this whole this complexity of how black women 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:30.240 are expected to be assertive and then when it doesn't 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.960 benefit the other people, then it becomes a problem. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:40.040 Right. So part of what, in my opinion, part. 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.920 Of why Jamelle Hill was so successful was because she 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:50.640 was very assertive from the from day one has no 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.080 and if you she has a podcast on Spotify now 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:58.280 and she writes for the Atlantic currently, if you read 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.160 any of her articles, if you listen to a podcast 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:06.960 she has no problem with assertiveness, never has. Her previous 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:11.880 employer was well aware of that, and so initially they 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.600 were fine with it. It worked out well until it didn't. 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.760 And I think that that is the problem that a 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:23.520 lot of black women face in the workplace, is that 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:33.360 people appreciate our assertiveness until they don't. And it's like, okay, well, 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:37.240 at what point do they not appreciate our assertiveness anymore? Well, 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:41.720 generally they appreciate ours. They don't appreciate our assertiveness anymore 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:48.440 when it's used on them when we point out something 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:54.240 they have done wrong. So they're fine when we stick 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.720 up for them, right when they look to us to 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:03.960 be the person that defends everybody, that speaks up against 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.439 all the injustice is happening. But then when we point 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.639 out where they're being racist, or they're being sexist or 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.919 agis or whatever it is that they're doing, when we 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:19.879 assert ourselves with them, that's when it becomes a problem. 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.720 That's a really good point. And there's this really great 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:27.080 article on the National Women's Law Center. It's called the 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.200 Risk of being a Black Woman with a Voice by 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.919 Caleb Patrick, and I want to read this one paragraph 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.400 and see what you think about it. So it says 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.640 the obstacles for black women and girls are very well documented. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.359 The high unemployment rate for black women tells us that 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.520 sometimes it's even harder for black women to get a job. 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.680 The large wage gap tells us that too many black 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.240 women go to work every day just to be undervalued 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.320 and underpaid as a black woman. Jamel's experience is personal 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.000 to me, and it's a reminder that those black women 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.280 who are able to find success are still subt to 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.560 the unspoken rules of how black women are supposed to act, speak, 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.640 and behave at work in school, the way schools distance. 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:13.200 This is Rod and Karen from the Blackouts podcast. We're 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.919 a husband and wife duo who make a comedy podcast 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:20.840 about sports, pop culture, and everything like that annoying checkout 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.760 lady at the grocery store you go too, with the glasses. 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.560 She just randomly keeps asking us what y'all eating for dinner? 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:29.960 We would we we wouldn't even in the line. 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:31.920 We were just walking around the store and she's like, 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:32.840 what y'all eat for dinner? 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.520 I thought, but what, ma'am. 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.040 Don't get it wrong with you, mah. 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.879 She be violating hard because that that one cashier she 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:47.199 started talking to other people about my groceries. I'm like, what, Like, 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.840 it's other people involved in this transaction. Now this is 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:50.840 just between us. 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:52.399 She's like, oh, girl, come over here. 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.520 They got the buffalo chicken dip. Like, what are y'all 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:54.879 gonna do? 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.959 Open it up, write it, eat it in my face. 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.240 Listen to the black Out Tips on the iHeartRadio app, 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.000 Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:12.840 Disproportionately Suspended Black Girls tells us that the silencing of 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.359 black women and girls begins early. 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:16.840 I know I was. 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.520 Taught to be seen and not heard when I was younger. 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.040 I was taught to, you know, be nice and sweet 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.399 and be, you know, a gentle girl. And it's just 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:28.600 it's not good for us. And I think you made 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:30.000 a really good point. I was going to ask this 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:34.400 question earlier and you said that sometimes when you are assertive, 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.720 it comes off as aggressive, and I was going to 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:38.600 ask you, but you actually said it, Like is that 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:40.560 because there's like built up stuff? I know for me, 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.359 sometimes it's like okay, I could take something on and 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.680 on and then at one point I just snapped and 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:45.280 people are like, what. 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:46.200 The fuck is on wire? 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.119 And it's like well, I've been holding the sin in 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.680 the whole time. I saw this quote on social media 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:52.560 and I totally forgot, but it says something along the 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.320 lines of, like, we're doing ourselves at disservice when we 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.240 don't speak up when those things happen, and we just 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:00.240 keep on letting it ride, because then we're going to 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.520 blow up. People gonna look at us like we're crazy. 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.119 And we could have just been upfront an assertive initially, 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.200 which is difficult, right, It's not always easy for certain 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:12.119 people based on your temperament and personality. And so we 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.400 got you. We got some tips on how we can 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.200 all work on being assertive, because it is really important 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:20.600 to be assertive so that I know for me, like 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.080 there's no guess work right when people are assertive, and 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:24.960 you I like to know where people stand, like tell 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:27.240 me what it is, don't say one thing and you 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.840 really feel another way, like keep it honest, like keep 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:32.919 it one hundred, be honest, let me know how you 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.639 feel so that we can have an honest dialogue. And 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:37.520 we both were on the same page. And so I 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:42.560 think we are empowering ourselves but also ensuring that we 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.000 have better communication when we are assertive, So it helps everyone. 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.600 Right, And I think the communication piece is super important 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:56.200 that that is probably the biggest piece in assertiveness versus 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:03.840 being aggressive versus being passive passive aggressive, Oh yeah, that 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:05.040 not that combination. 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:06.160 So there's four, right. 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:11.600 So there's like the passive person that lets everything slide, right, 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.720 doesn't stand up for themselves at all, and they're okay 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:23.439 with that. Then there's your passive aggressive person who on 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.720 the surface appears to be okay with it, but in 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.000 reality they're not. And so then they will do some 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:35.320 manipulative little things to communicate to you and I can't 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.080 even and it's not always necessarily manipulative, but they'll do 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:43.520 petty thing they'll do like petty things, or they'll engage 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:47.320 you in a behavior without articulating what's going on, and 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.080 that's a way to let you know how they're feeling 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:53.640 without saying how they're feeling, so they're being kind of indirect. 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.399 Then you have the person who's flat out aggressive, and 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.840 those are people that can come across as like assholes, 0:22:59.880 --> 0:23:04.960 right right. Then you have our assertive person. And our 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:09.960 assertive person is that person who's able to identify the 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:16.320 behavior the impact their feelings and what they want changed, right. 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:22.639 They use eye statements, they speak loudly and clearly, avoiding 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:26.280 pauses and ums. So they're making sure that they're coming 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:30.639