Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space. I'm doctor Don, a college
Speaker 1: professor and licensed psychologist.
Speaker 2: And I'm Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. Every Friday,
Speaker 2: we initiate authentic conversations on everything from fibroids to fake
Speaker 2: friends and sex work to self care.
Speaker 1: Join us as we create a safe space where black
Speaker 1: women can just be.
Speaker 2: All right, lady, let's get into it.
Speaker 1: Our quote of the day comes from Serena Williams. I
Speaker 1: think of the next girl who is going to come
Speaker 1: along who looks like me, and I hope, maybe, just
Speaker 1: maybe my voice.
Speaker 3: Will help her.
Speaker 1: Let that sit for a moment, because our topic for
Speaker 1: today is about assertiveness, So let's that sink in for
Speaker 1: a moment. I think of the next girl who is
Speaker 1: going to come along, who looks like me, and I hope, maybe,
Speaker 1: just maybe my voice will help her. All Right, you
Speaker 1: ready to dive into talking about assertiveness.
Speaker 2: Let's do it. Let's do it. So when I think
Speaker 2: about assertiveness, it makes me think about what I was
Speaker 2: taught about assertiveness growing up. In my voice and for
Speaker 2: me personally, I feel like I talk about this all
Speaker 2: the time, but I think it's so a childhood I'm
Speaker 2: learning as an adult. Childhood really does shape who you
Speaker 2: become as an adult. And I realize now that you know,
Speaker 2: growing up and being abused and being taught that my
Speaker 2: voice doesn't matter, that has presented so many challenges for
Speaker 2: me as an adult, as a black woman, right, And
Speaker 2: so I am constantly finding that I am unlearning and
Speaker 2: relearning the ways in which I should be showing up
Speaker 2: in the world to hold space for myself and my
Speaker 2: voice and state how I feel and not adapt to
Speaker 2: the feelings of others around me because that's what I
Speaker 2: was accustomed to. And so when I think of a certiveness,
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know. I feel like I'm torn.
Speaker 2: And there were moments where I remember my voice didn't matter,
Speaker 2: But then there were other moments where I was empowered
Speaker 2: to use my voice. And I know when I was younger,
Speaker 2: when it came to my body and when it came
Speaker 2: to me being uncomfortable, my mom taught me to like
Speaker 2: speak up in those situations, right, so to tell her
Speaker 2: if someone you know touched me or made me feelun comfortable.
Speaker 2: So I do remember that, but at the same time,
Speaker 2: I got mixed messages because on another hand, in certain instances,
Speaker 2: my voice didn't matter, and so as an adult, I
Speaker 2: was kind of torn between these two, and I feel
Speaker 2: like I gravitated toward my voice doesn't matter. I won't
Speaker 2: speak up. I'll just take it. I'll just be quiet.
Speaker 2: I don't want to, you know, ruffle feathers. I don't
Speaker 2: want to offend anyone. And so even today, I'm still
Speaker 2: learning and encouraging myself to speak up when I feel something,
Speaker 2: and my method and my comfort level is to do
Speaker 2: so in a peaceful way, unless I got to turn
Speaker 2: up on somebody is there. You know, sometimes people make
Speaker 2: you turn up. You got to turn up, But I
Speaker 2: typically try to remain tactful, professional and do it in
Speaker 2: that way. So yeah, I am still working on that today.
Speaker 2: But this is definitely a topic that is important for
Speaker 2: us considering, you know, who we are and the stereotypes
Speaker 2: that come along with being black women.
Speaker 1: I can totally relate and understand that. You know, I
Speaker 1: think about my own experiences, and you know you would
Speaker 1: think that, Okay, well, she's a therapist, so she knows
Speaker 1: this right. And even for you, we know that you
Speaker 1: have your degree in conflict resolution, So the assumption is
Speaker 1: that we both know how to do this, that it
Speaker 1: should just come naturally. The reality is that it doesn't.
Speaker 1: That for me, it's a similar experience of I had
Speaker 1: role models who were very assertive and could be in
Speaker 1: some instances perceived as aggressive, constantly use their voice, never
Speaker 1: afraid to use their voice, and then I had other
Speaker 1: role models who had a quiet way of using their voice.
Speaker 1: And so for me, it was a balance of trying
Speaker 1: to figure out, well, when do I use my voice?
Speaker 1: So I found that there were times when I would
Speaker 1: use my voice in that assertive way when I got angry,
Speaker 1: and usually that.
Speaker 3: Meant that it would come out as aggressive.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk a little bit later about how to
Speaker 1: differentiate between assertiveness and aggressiveness, right, But.
Speaker 3: I learned to.
Speaker 1: Kind of take things in a lot and not use
Speaker 1: my voice. So then that's how I ended up on
Speaker 1: that more aggressive side. And so I know just from
Speaker 1: conversations with different friends and other people in my life,
Speaker 1: that a lot of us have similar experiences, especially being
Speaker 1: black women. When there's the stereotype of the angry black woman,
Speaker 1: right that the automatic assumption is that when we stand
Speaker 1: up for ourselves that it's got to be because we're angry,
Speaker 1: or if we're angry, then it's a problem and that
Speaker 1: our anger.
Speaker 3: Is not rightfully justified.
Speaker 1: And people either there's situations that I can think of,
Speaker 1: you know, in the public eye where black women have
Speaker 1: asserted themselves and it's become problem for the people around them.
Speaker 2: And they assert themselves in the same way that maybe,
Speaker 2: let's say, their white counterparts might write typically white men,
Speaker 2: but then when the black woman does it, it's a
Speaker 2: big issue. And I think you have a really good
Speaker 2: example that you were sharing earlier too, don with me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was, we were.
Speaker 1: Our quote of the day came from Serena Williams and
Speaker 1: it came specifically from the Harper's Bizarre article that recently
Speaker 1: came out and will have the link in the show
Speaker 1: notes so other people can check it out. But she
Speaker 1: was opening up about her experience in twenty eighteen September
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen when she stood up for herself in a
Speaker 1: game that where Naomi Osaka won, and for her, that
Speaker 1: experience cost her a lot of anxiety, and she actually
Speaker 1: in the article mentioned that she went to therapy to
Speaker 1: process what she was experiencing because her level of asserting herself,
Speaker 1: her need to assert herself because she was being wronged
Speaker 1: in that moment, had her feeling guilty about taking away
Speaker 1: from Naomi's big win. And in the article, they also
Speaker 1: mentioned that the media did a really good job of
Speaker 1: putting the two of them against one another, which commonly
Speaker 1: happens when women in workspaces stand up for themselves.
Speaker 3: It's a perception that.
Speaker 1: If one woman is standing up for herself, then it's
Speaker 1: got to be to slight the other woman. And so
Speaker 1: I just get frustrated when I hear those types of
Speaker 1: situations because what it does is for those women who
Speaker 1: might not be comfortable with being assertive, it sends the
Speaker 1: message that it's not okay to be assertive. When's the
Speaker 1: message that you're wrong. It sends the message that your thoughts,
Speaker 1: your opinions, your feelings are not valid and are not
Speaker 1: valued in this space.
Speaker 2: That's a really good point. I'm just kind of taking
Speaker 2: that on, taking that all in, like, what does it
Speaker 2: even mean to be assertive? Right cause I feel like
Speaker 2: sometimes people get assertive and aggressive mixed up. And so
Speaker 2: by doing our research, we've defined assertive as showing a
Speaker 2: confident and see this even says showing a confident or
Speaker 2: forceful personality, which to me sounds a bit off putting, right,
Speaker 2: But it could also just mean being decisive, being bold,
Speaker 2: being self assured. So I think it varies when it
Speaker 2: comes to how assertiveness looks on different people. Right, you
Speaker 2: could still be direct and say what you mean to
Speaker 2: me when you say and be assertive, right, And so
Speaker 2: I think about I went to the nail shop today
Speaker 2: and a woman came in and she I wouldn't even
Speaker 2: say she was assertive. I think she would just rude,
Speaker 2: but she basically came in and said, can you do
Speaker 2: my nail? You know, I called and they said you
Speaker 2: would be free at eleven, and she's like, how long
Speaker 2: is the wait? And so the woman she was talking
Speaker 2: to was like, she said, oh, just pick out your
Speaker 2: color and have a seat. She's like, no, I need
Speaker 2: to know how long is the wait because I have
Speaker 2: a flight. And she said, well, what's the issue sept
Speaker 2: with the other girl besides her doing a step job
Speaker 2: on my nails? Like she was just really she was
Speaker 2: upset clearly, and she even said like I'm pissed. But
Speaker 2: in my opinion, she may have been assertive plus aggressive
Speaker 2: right in that case. Now, when the woman was doing
Speaker 2: my nails, I noticed that I be on it. When
Speaker 2: they're filing them nails, I'm like, all right, I'm looking
Speaker 2: at them to make sure they match. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: this one's crooked. So when she was doing my nails,
Speaker 2: I just said, can you file you know these two
Speaker 2: because they're a little crooked. And so she did that,
Speaker 2: and I feel like that's being assertive right there, just
Speaker 2: saying what you mean, meaning what you say, and kind
Speaker 2: of advocating for yourself.
Speaker 1: And so, well, let's talk about that a little bit, right,
Speaker 1: because I think that we do confuse assertive and aggressive,
Speaker 1: and sometimes someone can be be they might be trying
Speaker 1: to be assertive and it's coming across as rude, and
Speaker 1: so we want to think about you know, we constantly
Speaker 1: have conversations where we think about intent versus impact, right,
Speaker 1: and so her intent may not have been to be rude,
Speaker 1: but the impact she had was that she appeared rude.
Speaker 1: And so if we step back and we think about, well,
Speaker 1: what made her asserting herself? Because I've had situations where
Speaker 1: my nails have been messed up and I'm like, all right, no,
Speaker 1: I need to go back in and I need to
Speaker 1: communicate that y'all mess this up. Y'all need to fix
Speaker 1: this or I've had situations where I've made an appointment
Speaker 1: knowing that I'm on a short time crunch, And so
Speaker 1: as you were saying that, I was like, damn, I
Speaker 1: think I've been that woman.
Speaker 3: Where I walk into the nail shop and I.
Speaker 1: Have flight and I'm like, listen, I made my nail
Speaker 1: appointment for five.
Speaker 3: It's five. I know that being.
Speaker 1: Here takes two hours, and my flight I need to
Speaker 1: be headed to the airport by seven point thirty, so
Speaker 1: I don't have two and a half hours to wait. Arount, like,
Speaker 1: I need to be done recognizing that it's about my stuff, right,
Speaker 1: And so when I go into that situation, how I
Speaker 1: would approach it. If I'm approaching it from an assertive perspective,
Speaker 1: then I'm recognizing that I'm focused on my time, and
Speaker 1: if my time is something that is the highest priority
Speaker 1: for me, then I also need to be mindful that. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to go in and I'm going to say, hey,
Speaker 1: this is the amount of time that I have. I
Speaker 1: made my appointment for five with the expectation that I'm
Speaker 1: going to be out in two hours, because that's how
Speaker 1: long it normally takes. If I see that there's going
Speaker 1: to be any variation, then I can inquire about what's
Speaker 1: causing the variation, like what's causing the delay, And then
Speaker 1: at that moment, I can make the decision do I
Speaker 1: want to wait and risk being pushed for time or
Speaker 1: do I want to say, you know what, I see
Speaker 1: that clearly my time is going to be pushed. My
Speaker 1: time is not like, for whatever reason, my time is
Speaker 1: not going to go the way I wanted it to.
Speaker 1: Maybe I need to either not get my nails done
Speaker 1: right now, or I need to go somewhere else right.
Speaker 1: And it's also like contextual because even in that moment,
Speaker 1: she's saying that she's coming back because they messed up before.
Speaker 1: So even if we were to initially look at that
Speaker 1: situation and say, well, she should have planned better, She
Speaker 1: shouldn't be making a nail appointment to two hours before
Speaker 1: she needs to be at the airport.
Speaker 3: No to self, let me not do that again in life.
Speaker 1: Right, But that wasn't a part of her original plan
Speaker 1: coming into the nail shop right before an appointment. It
Speaker 1: sounds like she came in at an appropriate time considering
Speaker 1: her schedule.
Speaker 3: Right, she had practiced some good time.
Speaker 1: Management, and now this is a deviation to what she
Speaker 1: initially planned. So when we think about the context of
Speaker 1: she's coming in, had initially respected her time, and now
Speaker 1: she's coming in on something that she didn't plan on,
Speaker 1: that she didn't anticipate. So she's stressed and she's like, listen,
Speaker 1: y'all messed up my nails already.
Speaker 3: I need y'all to be trying to be more accommodating
Speaker 3: towards me.
Speaker 1: In that context, I see where her need to be
Speaker 1: assertive could come across as being rude.
Speaker 2: That makes sense that I think about when you were
Speaker 2: saying that, and made me think about in situations where
Speaker 2: you being rude, it's probably the most appropriate, you know,
Speaker 2: disposition to have based on the circumstance and the context.
Speaker 2: And so I think that it's in I don't know,
Speaker 2: I think sometimes it's important to consider the context, like
Speaker 2: you said, and if she did come before, I think
Speaker 2: she actually said it was her second time coming back,
Speaker 2: And so when you consider all that, it's like, you
Speaker 2: know what, there are definitely situations where I've been super
Speaker 2: pissed and I'm like, yo, I just want you to
Speaker 2: do this shit the right way so I can get
Speaker 2: on with my day. So I get it now, that
Speaker 2: makes sense. I do think that there's there are like
Speaker 2: different brands of assertiveness and it kind of makes me
Speaker 2: think about Jammel Hill, and so I think this was
Speaker 2: in what twenty seventeen or she.
Speaker 3: Had posted my twek last year, That's.
Speaker 2: What I thought. But this article that I found, since
Speaker 2: it was posted in October of twenty seventeen, but I
Speaker 2: feel like that was in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: Who it was the last The last couple of years
Speaker 1: have been pretty rough on black right, but in terms
Speaker 1: of how they attack our willingness to be assertive.
Speaker 2: You know. What happened was Jammel Hill from ESPN had
Speaker 2: tweet and the tweet says something along the lines of
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is a white supremacist who is largely who
Speaker 2: surrounds himself with white supremacists or something like that. And
Speaker 2: Trump ended up tweeting about her saying that, oh, this
Speaker 2: must be why ESPN's ratings are low. And then ESPN
Speaker 2: they ended up firing her because they said that she
Speaker 2: had she didn't abide by their social media guidelines or
Speaker 2: something like that. And when you think about it, what
Speaker 2: she did was she was assertive, she spoke truth to power,
Speaker 2: and because they didn't like what she said and who
Speaker 2: had bothered they let her go. Talented woman who does
Speaker 2: a great job at what you know, what she was
Speaker 2: doing there. And it's like, because she used her voice
Speaker 2: and used her platform to speak truth to power, because
Speaker 2: what she said was the truth and they didn't like it,
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, now we have to police you because
Speaker 2: we don't like the truth that you're speaking, you know.
Speaker 1: And so and I want to point out that she
Speaker 1: wasn't fired immediately after that, right, there were multiple instances
Speaker 1: where she has spoke where she spoke out, where she
Speaker 1: used her voice about Trump or in general. And the
Speaker 1: thing is, the thing that comes up for me with
Speaker 1: that is this whole this complexity of how black women
Speaker 1: are expected to be assertive and then when it doesn't
Speaker 1: benefit the other people, then it becomes a problem.
Speaker 3: Right. So part of what, in my opinion, part.
Speaker 1: Of why Jamelle Hill was so successful was because she
Speaker 1: was very assertive from the from day one has no
Speaker 1: and if you she has a podcast on Spotify now
Speaker 1: and she writes for the Atlantic currently, if you read
Speaker 1: any of her articles, if you listen to a podcast
Speaker 1: she has no problem with assertiveness, never has. Her previous
Speaker 1: employer was well aware of that, and so initially they
Speaker 1: were fine with it. It worked out well until it didn't.
Speaker 1: And I think that that is the problem that a
Speaker 1: lot of black women face in the workplace, is that
Speaker 1: people appreciate our assertiveness until they don't. And it's like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: at what point do they not appreciate our assertiveness anymore? Well,
Speaker 1: generally they appreciate ours. They don't appreciate our assertiveness anymore
Speaker 1: when it's used on them when we point out something
Speaker 1: they have done wrong. So they're fine when we stick
Speaker 1: up for them, right when they look to us to
Speaker 1: be the person that defends everybody, that speaks up against
Speaker 1: all the injustice is happening. But then when we point
Speaker 1: out where they're being racist, or they're being sexist or
Speaker 1: agis or whatever it is that they're doing, when we
Speaker 1: assert ourselves with them, that's when it becomes a problem.
Speaker 2: That's a really good point. And there's this really great
Speaker 2: article on the National Women's Law Center. It's called the
Speaker 2: Risk of being a Black Woman with a Voice by
Speaker 2: Caleb Patrick, and I want to read this one paragraph
Speaker 2: and see what you think about it. So it says
Speaker 2: the obstacles for black women and girls are very well documented.
Speaker 2: The high unemployment rate for black women tells us that
Speaker 2: sometimes it's even harder for black women to get a job.
Speaker 2: The large wage gap tells us that too many black
Speaker 2: women go to work every day just to be undervalued
Speaker 2: and underpaid as a black woman. Jamel's experience is personal
Speaker 2: to me, and it's a reminder that those black women
Speaker 2: who are able to find success are still subt to
Speaker 2: the unspoken rules of how black women are supposed to act, speak,
Speaker 2: and behave at work in school, the way schools distance.
Speaker 4: This is Rod and Karen from the Blackouts podcast. We're
Speaker 4: a husband and wife duo who make a comedy podcast
Speaker 4: about sports, pop culture, and everything like that annoying checkout
Speaker 4: lady at the grocery store you go too, with the glasses.
Speaker 2: She just randomly keeps asking us what y'all eating for dinner?
Speaker 3: We would we we wouldn't even in the line.
Speaker 1: We were just walking around the store and she's like,
Speaker 1: what y'all eat for dinner?
Speaker 3: I thought, but what, ma'am.
Speaker 2: Don't get it wrong with you, mah.
Speaker 4: She be violating hard because that that one cashier she
Speaker 4: started talking to other people about my groceries. I'm like, what, Like,
Speaker 4: it's other people involved in this transaction. Now this is
Speaker 4: just between us.
Speaker 3: She's like, oh, girl, come over here.
Speaker 4: They got the buffalo chicken dip. Like, what are y'all
Speaker 4: gonna do?
Speaker 2: Open it up, write it, eat it in my face.
Speaker 1: Listen to the black Out Tips on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Disproportionately Suspended Black Girls tells us that the silencing of
Speaker 2: black women and girls begins early.
Speaker 3: I know I was.
Speaker 2: Taught to be seen and not heard when I was younger.
Speaker 2: I was taught to, you know, be nice and sweet
Speaker 2: and be, you know, a gentle girl. And it's just
Speaker 2: it's not good for us. And I think you made
Speaker 2: a really good point. I was going to ask this
Speaker 2: question earlier and you said that sometimes when you are assertive,
Speaker 2: it comes off as aggressive, and I was going to
Speaker 2: ask you, but you actually said it, Like is that
Speaker 2: because there's like built up stuff? I know for me,
Speaker 2: sometimes it's like okay, I could take something on and
Speaker 2: on and then at one point I just snapped and
Speaker 2: people are like, what.
Speaker 3: The fuck is on wire?
Speaker 2: And it's like well, I've been holding the sin in
Speaker 2: the whole time. I saw this quote on social media
Speaker 2: and I totally forgot, but it says something along the
Speaker 2: lines of, like, we're doing ourselves at disservice when we
Speaker 2: don't speak up when those things happen, and we just
Speaker 2: keep on letting it ride, because then we're going to
Speaker 2: blow up. People gonna look at us like we're crazy.
Speaker 2: And we could have just been upfront an assertive initially,
Speaker 2: which is difficult, right, It's not always easy for certain
Speaker 2: people based on your temperament and personality. And so we
Speaker 2: got you. We got some tips on how we can
Speaker 2: all work on being assertive, because it is really important
Speaker 2: to be assertive so that I know for me, like
Speaker 2: there's no guess work right when people are assertive, and
Speaker 2: you I like to know where people stand, like tell
Speaker 2: me what it is, don't say one thing and you
Speaker 2: really feel another way, like keep it honest, like keep
Speaker 2: it one hundred, be honest, let me know how you
Speaker 2: feel so that we can have an honest dialogue. And
Speaker 2: we both were on the same page. And so I
Speaker 2: think we are empowering ourselves but also ensuring that we
Speaker 2: have better communication when we are assertive, So it helps everyone.
Speaker 1: Right, And I think the communication piece is super important
Speaker 1: that that is probably the biggest piece in assertiveness versus
Speaker 1: being aggressive versus being passive passive aggressive, Oh yeah, that
Speaker 1: not that combination.
Speaker 3: So there's four, right.
Speaker 1: So there's like the passive person that lets everything slide, right,
Speaker 1: doesn't stand up for themselves at all, and they're okay
Speaker 1: with that. Then there's your passive aggressive person who on
Speaker 1: the surface appears to be okay with it, but in
Speaker 1: reality they're not. And so then they will do some
Speaker 1: manipulative little things to communicate to you and I can't
Speaker 1: even and it's not always necessarily manipulative, but they'll do
Speaker 1: petty thing they'll do like petty things, or they'll engage
Speaker 1: you in a behavior without articulating what's going on, and
Speaker 1: that's a way to let you know how they're feeling
Speaker 1: without saying how they're feeling, so they're being kind of indirect.
Speaker 1: Then you have the person who's flat out aggressive, and
Speaker 1: those are people that can come across as like assholes,
Speaker 1: right right. Then you have our assertive person. And our
Speaker 1: assertive person is that person who's able to identify the
Speaker 1: behavior the impact their feelings and what they want changed, right.
Speaker 1: They use eye statements, they speak loudly and clearly, avoiding
Speaker 1: pauses and ums. So they're making sure that they're coming
Speaker 1: across as confident and competent. They own what they need,
Speaker 1: and they aim for positivity and collaboration.
Speaker 2: Now, question for you, what does it mean when we
Speaker 2: say identify the impact.
Speaker 1: So let's go back to our example of the nail
Speaker 1: shot right to first, we're going to identify the behavior.
Speaker 1: The behavior is getting my nails done right, and my
Speaker 1: nails were not done properly. That's the behavior. The impact
Speaker 1: is is thinking about what's gonna happen to everyone around
Speaker 1: me and myself in this moment. When I speak up
Speaker 1: right my feelings, I'm pissed off. What I want changed?
Speaker 1: I need my nails redone, okay, okay. And so when
Speaker 1: we look at that situation, if I come in in
Speaker 1: an aggressive tone, meaning I come in and I'm yelling
Speaker 1: and I'm saying, y'all fucked up my nails. I need
Speaker 1: this shit redone right now, right like, I don't care
Speaker 1: what you're doing, stop what you're doing, you need to help,
Speaker 1: and I'm setting it off in there right, that's aggressive.
Speaker 1: The impact that's gonna have is one You're gonna upset
Speaker 1: and activate.
Speaker 3: Everyone in the nail shop.
Speaker 1: Then you're gonna make it so that.
Speaker 3: The nail tech is not going to want to assist you.
Speaker 1: If anything, the nail tech might either become aggressive with you,
Speaker 1: or they may engage in a passive aggressive manner with you,
Speaker 1: in which they tell you, oh, it's okay, just have
Speaker 1: a seat. I'll get with you shortly and let you
Speaker 1: sit there, and we'll find all kinds of other customers
Speaker 1: to help in other things to do to make you
Speaker 1: wait because you upset them, so you and then you
Speaker 1: get more pissed off because you're sitting there waiting, and
Speaker 1: so it starts this vicious cycle. If we back it
Speaker 1: up and think about how to assertively handle that situation,
Speaker 1: you come in well, once she already called, she'd called
Speaker 1: ahead and made an appointment, so when she walks in,
Speaker 1: she can identify who she is.
Speaker 3: She can say, I'm really you know.
Speaker 1: In a calm manner, state that she's really unhappy with
Speaker 1: the way her nails have turned out, and ask what
Speaker 1: is the process for getting this corrected?
Speaker 3: Articulate you know that she's upset.
Speaker 1: And even if and that she's been a long time customer,
Speaker 1: she can say, you know, I know that you all generally.
Speaker 3: Do a much better job.
Speaker 1: I've been coming here for X amount of time. I
Speaker 1: enjoy being a customer here. I want a chance for
Speaker 1: us to rectify this situation in that she's being clear
Speaker 1: that she values this space, but she wants good service too,
Speaker 1: And she's also letting them know that she didn't appreciate
Speaker 1: the previous service that she has, So she's articulating her
Speaker 1: feelings and so in that moment, the nail tech is
Speaker 1: more likely to find a way to assist her. The
Speaker 1: hope is that is she communicy in that assertive way,
Speaker 1: that they would respond in kind, and the situation would
Speaker 1: resolve in a manner that's going to be helpful for
Speaker 1: both parties.
Speaker 2: So it sounds like impact is you just being I
Speaker 2: want to say, considerate of how your behavior will impact
Speaker 2: the people that will be receiving it, basically. And the
Speaker 2: interesting thing about that I feel like is sometimes our
Speaker 2: intent doesn't match our impact. And so I feel like
Speaker 2: even having a conversation at some point around like people
Speaker 2: in their sensitivity, everyone takes things differently, So you might
Speaker 2: be being assertive and you're like, you know what, I'm
Speaker 2: not even being mean or rude or anything. I'm being assertive.
Speaker 2: I'm being direct. I'm letting you know what I want
Speaker 2: how I want it. And because someone I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: a sensitive person, so no judgment. But because someone may
Speaker 2: be sensitive or they may not be used to your
Speaker 2: conversation style, your intention was to be assertive, that person
Speaker 2: received it in a different way. So I think that's
Speaker 2: a possibility. Even in being assertive, everyone's not going to
Speaker 2: understand or agree with it, but it's still very important
Speaker 2: I think for us to be assertive, and I do try.
Speaker 2: I know it's funny. I have people around me that
Speaker 2: are a lot more assertive and I watched them and
Speaker 2: I'm just like, oh my gosh, i could run public together.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, oh my goodness, here we go. Because
Speaker 2: I don't usually like to rock the boat unless it's
Speaker 2: like it takes a lot for me to get to
Speaker 2: that point where it's like, oh, hell no, we about to,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but I think.
Speaker 1: Part of our journey on assertiveness is getting better with
Speaker 1: being okay with the boat rocking.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Because as you said that, I thought about like, yeah.
Speaker 1: There have been times where I've been out with my
Speaker 1: sisters or my mom and they have been like extremely assertive, yes,
Speaker 1: And I'm just sitting back and I'm like, really, this
Speaker 1: ain't that big.
Speaker 3: A deal, Like why do we have to complain about that?
Speaker 1: And more recently, one of my sisters has said, you know,
Speaker 1: she's kind of made the kind of meant that I've
Speaker 1: become way more assertive, like you were pointing out, like
Speaker 1: you're pointing out all kinds of stuff now, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: because part of that is me practicing being more assertive.
Speaker 1: And part of why I want to put more energy
Speaker 1: into being assertive is because that protects my energy. And
Speaker 1: in multiple episodes, we talk about protecting our energy, self care,
Speaker 1: and self preservation, and being assertive aligns with all of
Speaker 1: those things. So if I'm not assertive, then I run
Speaker 1: the risk of taking in things that I don't want
Speaker 1: to that I don't want really want to take in,
Speaker 1: and then I'm not What that means is I'm not
Speaker 1: communicating my real feelings, and then that builds up resentment,
Speaker 1: and then that's when I end up exploding on on
Speaker 1: someone exploding in a situation that more than likely didn't
Speaker 1: deserve me exploding. Going back to our nail shop example
Speaker 1: of that woman may have been coming in and she
Speaker 1: may have exploded because there were.
Speaker 3: Lots of other things in her life.
Speaker 1: That she hadn't addressed, and this felt like the safe
Speaker 1: opportunity to explode because there's less risk involved.
Speaker 2: That's a really good point. I mean, that's so true.
Speaker 2: And I think even for me, I've come a long
Speaker 2: way when it comes to being desertive, but of course
Speaker 2: there's always room for improvement. And I know sometimes I
Speaker 2: get really nervous. My stomach is kind of the knots,
Speaker 2: and I'm kind of going back and forth in my
Speaker 2: head on like how it's going to play out, how
Speaker 2: do I want to say it, what might the impact be?
Speaker 2: But I still try to push myself to move forward
Speaker 2: with it, because, like you said, sometimes it's too exhausting.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't want to take on this energy.
Speaker 2: And you know, let's say someone does something for you,
Speaker 2: or I'm thinking about a situation where like someone may
Speaker 2: have I'm trying to think like a recent situation I
Speaker 2: had where I think someone may have designed something like,
Speaker 2: oh do you like this? Now you have an opportunity
Speaker 2: to be direct and be the assertive and say no,
Speaker 2: can you fix this, or just oh yeah, it's cool,
Speaker 2: and then you're looking at this piece of shit like
Speaker 2: god damn, I should have said something, I hate this
Speaker 2: art org or whatever it is. But because you weren't assertive,
Speaker 2: now you kind of have to deal with that. And
Speaker 2: so I think I'm getting to the point where I'm
Speaker 2: just exhausted and I'm over just letting stuff slide. But again,
Speaker 2: if you are working on being assertive, you are not alone.
Speaker 2: We are all a work in progress. We are all
Speaker 2: trying to do our best. Some of us have more
Speaker 2: I want to say, I don't even know the adjective
Speaker 2: to use, but some of us have different personalities and
Speaker 2: that just comes naturally for us, whereas others like myself
Speaker 2: and I think domb as well, we have to work
Speaker 2: a little harder on building that muscle. But like anything else,
Speaker 2: once you build that muscle and you're exercising it, you're
Speaker 2: gonna get better. So it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1: I agree, and I think, yeah, it's just a matter
Speaker 1: of build, like adding to that arsenal. And you know,
Speaker 1: as we have been talking, like I think about how
Speaker 1: I'm good at talking a good game. If we go
Speaker 1: back to the beginning where I said that, like, by
Speaker 1: nature of our degrees and our profession, logically we know
Speaker 1: how to do it right. So I can talk a
Speaker 1: good game because I know how to do it. I
Speaker 1: can say to other people in this situation, this is
Speaker 1: what I would do, and this is what you This
Speaker 1: is all you need to handle.
Speaker 3: This girl, Let's get this. You know.
Speaker 1: I can use the language, have the tone, But sometimes
Speaker 1: for me, in those small moments, I don't show up
Speaker 1: for myself. I'm good at showing up for others, asserting
Speaker 1: for others, but the muscle that I'm trying to build
Speaker 1: is asserting myself right.
Speaker 3: And so before we.
Speaker 1: Wrap up, I want to just go over our tips
Speaker 1: one more time so that everybody listening can remember how
Speaker 1: to be assertive, because I know that there's all of
Speaker 1: us listening have again, we're either passive, passive, aggressive, aggressive,
Speaker 1: or assertive, and it's really hard for us to truly
Speaker 1: be assertive. If we really want to be assertive, then
Speaker 1: we want to remember that we need to in the
Speaker 1: situation where we're faced with a decision, we identify the behavior,
Speaker 1: think about the impact identify our feelings, and then what
Speaker 1: we want changed. As we're communicating about those things, we
Speaker 1: use eye statements, We speak loudly and clearly, avoiding pauses
Speaker 1: and ums. We own ownership and responsibility for what it
Speaker 1: is that we need, and then we aim for positivity
Speaker 1: and collaboration. You catch more bees and flies with honey
Speaker 1: than you do with vinegar.
Speaker 2: That is awesome, and I want to add two little
Speaker 2: nuggets onto that. The next what you made me think
Speaker 2: of is be unapologetic. I know I am the sorriest
Speaker 2: person ever. I will sorry you to death. Oh I'm
Speaker 2: sorry when I'll need something. I am really working on
Speaker 2: that because you're not sorry. No, you said what you said,
Speaker 2: I said what I said. Ye at me, Okay, say
Speaker 2: what you mean, mean what you say, and be unapologetic.
Speaker 2: And then also what we allow will continue. So we
Speaker 2: continue to let someone do something and we never say anything.
Speaker 2: We can't be mad at them when they keep on
Speaker 2: doing it because they don't know, because we haven't asserted ourselves.
Speaker 2: And so you got this. Just know that it's baby steps, right,
Speaker 2: So take a small little step and you can do it.
Speaker 2: We have other episodes that you need to listen to
Speaker 2: about confidence, conflict resolution, and boundaries, and so if you
Speaker 2: kind of put those on rotation, you will be good
Speaker 2: to go. You'll be telling everybody exactly how you feel.
Speaker 2: Before you know it, they'll be like, who is this
Speaker 2: new person?
Speaker 3: Who is she?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So tune into those episodes and that's
Speaker 2: everything you need.
Speaker 1: Please note that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice,
Speaker 1: self empowerment, and mental health, but it is by no
Speaker 1: means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal
Speaker 1: relationship with a trained mental health provider. If you or
Speaker 1: someone you know is in need of mental health care,
Speaker 1: please visit the therapyople Black Girls Directory Psychology today or
Speaker 1: contact your insurance provider.
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard and want to keep
Speaker 2: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and
Speaker 2: Twitter at her space podcast or check out our website
Speaker 2: at her birthspace podcast dot com. And before we meet again,
Speaker 2: repeat after me, I will not judge myself for where
Speaker 2: I'm starting. I'm making progress every day.
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week.
Speaker 3: Lady