Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody.
Speaker 2: I'm Jameel Hill and welcome to politics and I heard
Speaker 2: podcast and unbothered production.
Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical.
Speaker 2: NFL free agency is hot and heavy, with teams spending
Speaker 2: a massive billion dollars in one weekend by signing, resigning,
Speaker 2: and giving contract extensions to a number of players. Devanta
Speaker 2: Adams is set to join the Los Angeles Rams on
Speaker 2: a two year, forty six million dollar deal. Cleveland resigned
Speaker 2: defensive end Miles Geartt to a record contract extension that
Speaker 2: makes him the highest.
Speaker 1: Paid nine quarterback in league history.
Speaker 2: Now correct me if I'm wrong, But wasn't this the
Speaker 2: same Miles Garrett who requested a trade from the Browns
Speaker 2: to a contender not too long ago? The Browns threw
Speaker 2: an average salary of forty million per year at him,
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty three point five million in guaranteed
Speaker 2: money and a no trade clause. And now he's back
Speaker 2: to being team clete He's rich, He is rich, rich.
Speaker 3: He got his own money. And baby, when I say
Speaker 3: you he's got his own money, I mean the boy
Speaker 3: has got his own money.
Speaker 2: Also shout out to Garri's agent, Nicole Lynn at Clutch
Speaker 2: Sports y'all worked the Browns like it was the third
Speaker 2: shift at the waffle house, but no fights, and y'all
Speaker 2: got all of your teeth. But seeing these players enjoy
Speaker 2: these multimillion dollar contracts and having the ability to use
Speaker 2: their leverage to either stay in place depending on their
Speaker 2: market value, made me think of the person who made
Speaker 2: a lot of this possible, former Major League Baseball player
Speaker 2: Kirk Flood. It's Flood who changed professional sports forever by
Speaker 2: creating what we all know as free agency. Now, let
Speaker 2: me give you the backstory on Kirk Flood. He was
Speaker 2: a center fielder for the Saint Louis Cardinals, one of
Speaker 2: the best in the game, having won seven straight Golden
Speaker 2: Gloves at one point, and he also was a key
Speaker 2: member of the cardinals nineteen sixty four and nineteen sixty
Speaker 2: seven World Series championship teams. Now, in nineteen sixty eight,
Speaker 2: the Cardinals again appeared in the World Series, this time
Speaker 2: against the Detroit Tigers. In the seventh inning of Game seven,
Speaker 2: Flood made a critical error that many believe clinched the
Speaker 2: World Series for the Tigers.
Speaker 4: And the Tigers now made their first threat with two
Speaker 4: hour basis by cash and heart brings up this Grand Slam.
Speaker 4: Testing Kim Off from He's had two homers and six runs.
Speaker 5: About it in.
Speaker 4: In the series, he had twenty one homers and let
Speaker 4: his team and runs about it in.
Speaker 6: During the season with ninety He's.
Speaker 4: Had one out of nine against the pitching of Gibson,
Speaker 4: and out was a home run. That was the only
Speaker 4: run the Gibson's bre noted in this series.
Speaker 5: My Carver.
Speaker 4: And Gibson are not discussing the weather, which is beautiful.
Speaker 6: Arthur kicks the ball to all fields.
Speaker 7: Cry ball Flood.
Speaker 6: Pry almost thought he must touch him, but over his head,
Speaker 6: who runs are gonna star? The same thing almost happened
Speaker 6: earlier in the game that Jim Arthur, and now it
Speaker 6: has happened to one of the greatest defensive center fielders
Speaker 6: in baseball, her Flood when.
Speaker 5: He started off or something happened to his underputting watches.
Speaker 5: Now he catches his faccine and he nearly fell downs,
Speaker 5: and that cost him engaging the ball. But very rarely
Speaker 5: has ever a misjudged the ball out there. But when
Speaker 5: he strumbled on his way, it threw him out of
Speaker 5: his path.
Speaker 4: He couldn't get back to bass Dale over his then
Speaker 4: and the Tigers now have two runs in the seventh
Speaker 4: and this all came after two outs.
Speaker 3: Nobody eyes now.
Speaker 2: The Tigers went on to win the World Series, But
Speaker 2: then things really got interesting.
Speaker 1: In the spring of the following year.
Speaker 2: After the World Series loss, Flood and the Cardinals had
Speaker 2: a bitter contract negotiation. Flood held out during spring training
Speaker 2: after demanding to receive a ninety thousand dollars contract, a
Speaker 2: pretty healthy sum in those days. Flood got his money,
Speaker 2: but management remained bitter because in those days they weren't
Speaker 2: used to players exercising any leverage. In October of nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty nine, the Cardinals traded Flood to the Philadelphia Phillies,
Speaker 2: who were reportedly offering Flood a ten thousand dollars raise
Speaker 2: that would put his salary at one hundred thousand dollars now.
Speaker 2: Flood wasn't interested and refused to report to Philadelphia. Instead,
Speaker 2: Flood wrote in one hundred and thirty four word letter
Speaker 2: to Major League Baseball Commissioner Bowie Kon explaining why he
Speaker 2: wouldn't concede to the trade. Flood wrote, after twelve years
Speaker 2: in the major leagues, I do not feel that I
Speaker 2: am a piece of property to be bought and sold
Speaker 2: irrespective of my wishes.
Speaker 1: I believe that any system which produces.
Speaker 2: That result violates my ba basic rights as a citizen
Speaker 2: and is inconsistent with the laws of the United States and.
Speaker 1: Of several states.
Speaker 2: Flood was calling Major League Baseball's reserve clause into question.
Speaker 2: Under the reserve clause, the only way a player could
Speaker 2: leave a team is if he was traded or released
Speaker 2: without the ability to make themselves available on the open market.
Speaker 2: Players weren't paid what they truly were worth according to
Speaker 2: market value because.
Speaker 1: They had no market they could explore.
Speaker 2: Now, the reason Major League Baseball didn't have to compete
Speaker 2: for players is because the Supreme Court ruled in nineteen
Speaker 2: twenty two that baseball was exempt from anti trust laws,
Speaker 2: which are in place to promote competition, prevent monopolies, price fixing,
Speaker 2: and generally discourage anti competitive behavior. Baseball is currently the
Speaker 2: only major sport with an anti trust exemption. Now, Bowie
Speaker 2: Kun refused to grant Flood's request, so Flood filed a
Speaker 2: lawsuit against the Commissioner and Major League Baseball, seeking to
Speaker 2: overturn Major League Baseball's anti trust status. Now, the Major
Speaker 2: League Baseball Players Association also voted to Backflood and helped
Speaker 2: pay his legal but as you might imagine, Flood's resistance
Speaker 2: did not go over well with the establishment, the public,
Speaker 2: and certainly not the media. Here's Flood being interviewed by
Speaker 2: renowned sportscaster Howard Cosel, who asked Flood to explain how
Speaker 2: he could be paid so much money yet still be
Speaker 2: so unhappy with his situation.
Speaker 3: The problem it's been written, Kurt, that you're a man
Speaker 3: who makes ninety thousand dollars a year, which isn't exactly
Speaker 3: slave voyages what you're talk tonight.
Speaker 5: Well, Howard, a well paid slave is nonetheless a slave.
Speaker 2: Now, even though it was Cosel that mentioned slavery, you
Speaker 2: probably can imagine how poorly Flood's comments went over with
Speaker 2: the fans, owners, and the media. Here's author Brad Snyder,
Speaker 2: who wrote a book about Flood that is aptly titled
Speaker 2: Well Paid Slave, and historian Gerald Early on.
Speaker 1: The backlash Flood received.
Speaker 8: That slave analogy pissed off a lot of people. Kurt
Speaker 8: was making seven times what the average American was making.
Speaker 8: The thought that someone like that could be a victim
Speaker 8: of injustice didn't resonate with people.
Speaker 7: The Civil Rights Actor has been passed, the Voting Rights
Speaker 7: Act has been passed by nineteen sixty eight. There's an
Speaker 7: anti poverty program. So there's a kind of backlashes coming
Speaker 7: from whites. Now you got black people coming out there
Speaker 7: making irrational statements that I'm making ninety thousand dollars a
Speaker 7: year and I'm a slave.
Speaker 2: Now, thankfully this did not discourage Flood. Oh, y'all want
Speaker 2: to talk about race. Flood said, well, let's talk about it.
Speaker 4: Then, it's been a master and slave relationship.
Speaker 3: As long as you do for I say this, you're fine.
Speaker 2: As his case worked this way through the legal system,
Speaker 2: his baseball career suffered. He didn't play it all in
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy A year later, he was traded to the
Speaker 2: Washington Senators, but he wasn't the same player. He appeared
Speaker 2: in just thirteen games. He left the Senators in April
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one and retired from baseball. Finally, in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy two, Flood's case went all the way to the
Speaker 2: Supreme Court, but the court ruled in favor of Major
Speaker 2: League Baseball.
Speaker 1: And while Kurt Flood.
Speaker 2: Was managing all of this, not a single major League
Speaker 2: Baseball player showed up to the trial to support the
Speaker 2: player who was fighting for their rights. A few years later,
Speaker 2: the reserve clause finally ended in Major League baseball. In
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, pitchers Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally refused
Speaker 2: to sign their one year contracts, but they played anyway.
Speaker 2: When that season ended, an arbitrator ruled they could become
Speaker 2: free agents, and that was the final straw that finally
Speaker 2: led to free agency. Now, I think you all know
Speaker 2: how this story goes. Neither Andy Messersmith or Dave McNally
Speaker 2: lost their careers or faced the same criticism that Flood did.
Speaker 1: But imagine if other.
Speaker 2: Players had simply stood with Flood when he filed his lawsuit.
Speaker 2: Either way, Flood gave everybody the blueprint. Here's Oscar Robertson
Speaker 2: on how Kurt Flood inspired him to take up a
Speaker 2: similar fight for NBA players in the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 3: In basketball, we knew that Kurt Fluy was trying to
Speaker 3: achieve We thought it was right.
Speaker 9: Three months after Flood had filed his lawsuit in nineteen
Speaker 9: seventy Oscar Robertson and thirteen other professional basketball players sued
Speaker 9: to abolish the reserve clause in the NBA following an
Speaker 9: earlier failed attempt by star Rick Barry. Six years later,
Speaker 9: they reached a settlement to bring free agency to their sport.
Speaker 2: It took until nineteen ninety three for the NFL to
Speaker 2: have full free agency, which was spearheaded by the late
Speaker 2: Reggie White. The Hall of Famer was the lead plaintiff
Speaker 2: in a class action anti trust lawsuit against the NFL.
Speaker 2: Before free agency, every NFL team was allowed to protect
Speaker 2: thirty seven players on their roster from leaving to another team.
Speaker 1: When White left the Philadelphia Eagles to.
Speaker 2: Sign a four year contract with the Green Bay Packers
Speaker 2: or seventeen million, it wasn't just something he deserved, but
Speaker 2: something he truly fought for. On this podcast last week,
Speaker 2: I mentioned how Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred is
Speaker 2: considering lifting the ban on Pete Rose from baseball, which
Speaker 2: would make him eligible for the Hall of Fame posthumously. Now,
Speaker 2: while Pete Rose was a great player, he crossed a
Speaker 2: sacred line by gambling on the game. Manfred should instead
Speaker 2: put that energy behind advocating for Kurt Flood to be
Speaker 2: in the Hall of Fame. Even if you don't think
Speaker 2: Flood was good enough to be elected as a player,
Speaker 2: there is precedence for electing Flood as a contributor because
Speaker 2: of how he impacted the growth of the game. The
Speaker 2: former executive director of the Players Association, Marvin Miller, is
Speaker 2: in the Hall of Fame because of his contributions, and
Speaker 2: it was Miller who Flood consulted with before making his
Speaker 2: decision to sue Major League Baseball. The average salary of
Speaker 2: today's pro baseball player is five million a year, and
Speaker 2: that would not have happened without Kurt Flood. Major League
Speaker 2: Baseball needs to atone for blackballing a player whose only
Speaker 2: offense was standing ten toes down.
Speaker 1: I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approved this message.
Speaker 2: Up next on his politics, My guest is a former
Speaker 2: NFL veteran who played with the likes of Randall Cunningham,
Speaker 2: Randy Moss, and Chris Carter. He's a player who has
Speaker 2: maximized his gifts and talent at every stop as an athlete,
Speaker 2: so it's no surprise that he's been able to make
Speaker 2: an amazing pivot into filmmaking and storytelling. And I can't
Speaker 2: wait to tell him how I used to play with
Speaker 2: him on Maddon coming up next on his politics Matthew Hatchett. So, Hatch,
Speaker 2: I'm going to start this podcast by asking you a
Speaker 2: question that I ask every guest that appears on politics,
Speaker 2: and that is name an athlete or a moment that
Speaker 2: made you love sports.
Speaker 3: Ooh, that's kind of easy. So I remember it like
Speaker 3: it was yesterday. All right, I'm sitting down watching sometime
Speaker 3: in the nineties. Tell you how old I am the
Speaker 3: Chicago Bulls versus the Cleveland Cavaliers, and they gave this
Speaker 3: dude named Michael Jordan the ball with three seconds left.
Speaker 3: And I knew about big shots and big games, but
Speaker 3: I never knew about the energy of it or the
Speaker 3: excitement of it. And I wasn't a Jordan fan up
Speaker 3: until this. Right, I'm from Cleveland, Ohio, so you know,
Speaker 3: we're watching, you know, our home team, the Cleveland Cavaliers,
Speaker 3: and he just walks out on the court as Michael walks.
Speaker 3: At that time, it was a normal walk, as you
Speaker 3: know now, the way Michael walk was something out of
Speaker 3: this world, right, you don't walk like everybody else. And
Speaker 3: he like said, to get the ball in bounds, he
Speaker 3: had to go one two, you know, give him a
Speaker 3: little move or whatever, and then go attack the ball.
Speaker 3: And then three seconds left, three two one he shoots
Speaker 3: and the ball went in and I just jumped up
Speaker 3: like I'm in the arena or like I had something
Speaker 3: to do with it, right, But I had never been
Speaker 3: that emotional about a game. My favorite sport was football,
Speaker 3: of course, right, but just that moment of the ball
Speaker 3: going through the hoop and he turns around and you know,
Speaker 3: gives the fist pump and I was just so lost
Speaker 3: in that three to five seconds of Jordan doing that, right,
Speaker 3: making the shot, having the excitement, and I was like,
Speaker 3: you know what, I want to feel that one day.
Speaker 3: And of course that kind of started my journey of
Speaker 3: I don't know what I got to do, but I
Speaker 3: know that that moment is not easy to have. So
Speaker 3: I'm going to do everything in my power to have
Speaker 3: that moment at some point in my sports uh I
Speaker 3: guess sports journey. And of course that was the moment
Speaker 3: to me, Michael Jordan beating the Cavs with three seconds
Speaker 3: left on the clock, game winning buzzer winning game for
Speaker 3: Michael Jordan's.
Speaker 1: Now, that was the shot that he hit over Craig Elo.
Speaker 3: Right, that was the shout over hit over Craig Elo, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think, and that won the series. And it was like,
Speaker 3: I think the Caves might have been ranked, you know,
Speaker 3: they like two seed, the Bulls were like seven or
Speaker 3: something like that. I don't think it was one in eight,
Speaker 3: but it was. The Bulls were definitely not favored to
Speaker 3: win in Cleveland.
Speaker 2: To win that series, you know how diabolical you have
Speaker 2: to be for that to be your moment when so
Speaker 2: many Cleveland fans are still scarred from that.
Speaker 1: It's just diabolical. Ahead I just thought, I disappointing sports memory.
Speaker 3: Okay, you know what, there's so many disappointing moments in
Speaker 3: Cleveland sports history. Don't even worry about that one, y'all.
Speaker 3: Don't even worry about that one. You got the fumble,
Speaker 3: you know, you got the drive with l Way, you
Speaker 3: got some other Cavaliers woes. But the Cavs have won
Speaker 3: a championships since then. Lebron brought them one a couple
Speaker 3: of years back, so I think they can forgive me
Speaker 3: for this one.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So with that being said, given that you clearly had
Speaker 2: a lot of respect and admiration from Michael Jordan, where
Speaker 2: do you stand in the Jordan versus Lebron debate, it's.
Speaker 3: Not even a debate. It's not even a debate. I mean,
Speaker 3: you're talking about a guy, and by the way, Kobe's
Speaker 3: number two, but you're talking about and I'm going to
Speaker 3: break it down to them trying to give the perspective
Speaker 3: of the regular fan. Right, you look at Lebron and
Speaker 3: what he did from being number one in high school
Speaker 3: and being so big, you know, bigger, stronger, faster than everybody,
Speaker 3: and then you take him to the NBA he's still bigger, stronger,
Speaker 3: faster than anybody. Michael was the opposite, right, he had
Speaker 3: to make himself into Michael Jordan. So it comes more
Speaker 3: about respect than about just god given talent. Like Michael
Speaker 3: wasn't six eight, he wasn't two forty. He wasn't going
Speaker 3: to be able to just dominate physically, so he had
Speaker 3: to figure out his game. He had to make himself
Speaker 3: into Michael Jordan, which, you know, disrespect to Lebron, But
Speaker 3: to me, there's no debate because you're talking about somebody
Speaker 3: who made himself, you know, from the Mud, and instead
Speaker 3: of just taking what he had, and he's bigger and stronger,
Speaker 3: fast than everybody that's Lebron. That's cool. But I think
Speaker 3: that work, ethic, determination, desire, all those things and what's
Speaker 3: really made him, and I think those things are unmatched.
Speaker 3: And of course we're talking about the finished product is
Speaker 3: six rings and game winners, and people like, well, that's
Speaker 3: who he is, Like that is nothing, that's not that's
Speaker 3: the product, the by product of who he became. But
Speaker 3: who he is was that fifteen, sixteen, nineteen year old
Speaker 3: kid who lived in the gym, getting better every day
Speaker 3: all day. And that's what I respect about Michael's journey,
Speaker 3: and that's why it's unmatched to me. And he changed
Speaker 3: a whole sport more than he just was a good player,
Speaker 3: Like Lebron's a great player, but I just you can't
Speaker 3: put Lebron in Hong Kong, in China and he just
Speaker 3: people look at him like a god, right, like Michael
Speaker 3: had that. I remember we had this told this story
Speaker 3: the other day and it was some back in the
Speaker 3: two thousands or something. They were the most how do
Speaker 3: you call it, not the most expensive, but the most
Speaker 3: popular names in the world. Right, it was Nickey Mouse
Speaker 3: and Michael Jordan, Like those are the two biggest names
Speaker 3: in the world like, that's hard to be. In my opinion,
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 2: I mean when we talk about influence over a culture,
Speaker 2: because I would argue that even though if you think
Speaker 2: that Lebron is the best player this generation, the most
Speaker 2: influential player this generation is Steph Curry because Steph Curry
Speaker 2: has handedly changed the way basketball has played. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of people know they cannot hit the genetic
Speaker 2: lottery and be Lebron James. But Steph Curry just speak
Speaker 2: of the idea that they can be him, you know,
Speaker 2: because he's you.
Speaker 1: Know, he's he's definitely, he's definitely athletic.
Speaker 2: He's just not six a eight and two forty and
Speaker 2: he's not some amazing leaper. He had to create such
Speaker 2: a specific skill, and he created it so well that
Speaker 2: now when you watch an NBA game, everybody's trying to
Speaker 2: be Steph. Right, It's like everybody's shooting from you know,
Speaker 2: all five positions. You see what the three point shot.
Speaker 2: What that's done to the NBA. Whether it's good or
Speaker 2: bad depending on what your perspective is.
Speaker 1: So it's different.
Speaker 2: I do wonder if this is a generational perspective, because
Speaker 2: you and I are only a year apart.
Speaker 1: And so like you, I am from the Midwest. I'm
Speaker 1: from twenty two.
Speaker 3: You're twenty two, yes.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes a year.
Speaker 2: I love how you put yourself younger than me. But
Speaker 2: that's okay, all good. But I do think probably basketball
Speaker 2: fans of our generation, and especially in the cities that
Speaker 2: we're from, because we had to you know, Cleveland was
Speaker 2: more tormented by Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1: See when I was commuted as.
Speaker 2: A basketball fan, we were kicking his ass and then
Speaker 2: we then we couldn't beat him anymore, right, And so
Speaker 2: it's like, right, we have that we were all in
Speaker 2: the same division, so we have that proximity. You know,
Speaker 2: you got Cleveland, Otago and Detroit, so we have probably
Speaker 2: a much more deeper, intimate sort of memory.
Speaker 1: Of Michael Jordan.
Speaker 2: And not that I didn't see Lebron's whole career, so
Speaker 2: I can I can understand why you answered it that way.
Speaker 2: But it's just so diabolical that you from Cleveland and
Speaker 2: that was your sports moment.
Speaker 3: And you want to know my favorite football team growing up,
Speaker 3: just take a wild guy. Since I'm being from Cleland,
Speaker 3: take a wild guy.
Speaker 1: So I'm guessing what it wasn't the Browns.
Speaker 3: Then it was not the Browns. I couldn't stand the Browns.
Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me you were not a Cowboys fan.
Speaker 3: I was a Steelers fan.
Speaker 2: Oh, Steelers. I was trying to think of a national team.
Speaker 2: I was thinking of a national team. But you know, okay,
Speaker 2: like I was, like it had to be might have
Speaker 2: been my second.
Speaker 3: Guess, Yeah, steelersn't Browns. That was the biggest rival. That
Speaker 3: was the biggest. Of course they can't stand each other.
Speaker 3: But it's funny because my whole family loved the Browns.
Speaker 3: But looking back at it, I guess that just made
Speaker 3: me who I am. Right, if I see everybody going left,
Speaker 3: there's some odd reason I'm going to go right. I
Speaker 3: don't know. It's just me. So I was a huge
Speaker 3: Steelers fan growing up as well. Yeah, well I love
Speaker 3: But what it.
Speaker 2: Is we're talking about pathways. Let's let's get deeper into yours. Now.
Speaker 2: You and I like we we met like a few
Speaker 2: years back, because when you and t O had the podcast,
Speaker 2: I came in and did the podcast.
Speaker 1: But most recently we've worked together.
Speaker 2: You created this amazing project called shadow Ball, Rise of
Speaker 2: the Black Athlete. It's a document series style podcast that's
Speaker 2: on Amazon audible and for those who have not listened
Speaker 2: to it, it's really spectacular. When you reached out and
Speaker 2: just told me just the root of it, like what
Speaker 2: you wanted to accomplish, the stories you wanted to tell
Speaker 2: about black athletes.
Speaker 7: I was.
Speaker 2: I was in just off that and when the script
Speaker 2: which is exceptional, you know. So it was really a
Speaker 2: fantastic experience for me. But you made this pivot in entertainment.
Speaker 2: You've been at it for a while, I mean, and
Speaker 2: so I guess I wanted to start with theirs that
Speaker 2: you know a lot of guys when they leave the NFL,
Speaker 2: because you what year did you retire?
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 2: Two thousand and six, you retire, So when that moment
Speaker 2: comes and you know football is no longer what you'll
Speaker 2: be doing as your main career, what made you decide
Speaker 2: to pivot to entertainment?
Speaker 3: You know what? I didn't know at the moment that
Speaker 3: I was pivoting. I think that's the key here. It's like,
Speaker 3: when you get done, there's you're going to search for
Speaker 3: something to replace it, and there's nothing that can place
Speaker 3: that feeling right. But there is only a few times
Speaker 3: how I don't even call it an epiphany, but there's
Speaker 3: a few times you just have that feel of this
Speaker 3: world is different if I choose to be different with
Speaker 3: that right running out of the tunnel from my first
Speaker 3: NFL game, there was something about that. It's just something
Speaker 3: that I was like, this is the best feeling in
Speaker 3: the world. I don't know what ever is going to
Speaker 3: happen the rest of my life. I could die right now.
Speaker 3: That was a moment the day I got drafted, when
Speaker 3: Dinny Green called me at three forty eight April twenty first,
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven, when I was a two hundred and
Speaker 3: thirty fifth picking an NFL draft not hatchet when it
Speaker 3: be a Minnesota biking, I said, yep, and you know,
Speaker 3: I went outside from my hands. That was a moment.
Speaker 3: The only other time I really felt that is when
Speaker 3: I went to A Bad Boy Too Bad Boy's Too
Speaker 3: premiere and we're sitting down for the you know, for
Speaker 3: the movie to start. This the whole theater goes black,
Speaker 3: and then of course the curtains open up and the
Speaker 3: first scene is well doing something. I probably something with
Speaker 3: this shirt off, shirt off or something, I don't remember,
Speaker 3: but the crowd's going crazy and I just remember getting
Speaker 3: those same goosebumps of the moment. This is like, the
Speaker 3: moment was just energetic, and how can I have this moment?
Speaker 3: Because at this point, I'm like, I can have this
Speaker 3: moment because it has nothing to do with sports, right,
Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm going to go into entertainment.
Speaker 3: Had no idea what I was going to do, but
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm gonna go down that path because there
Speaker 3: was something, you know, that that had had a fire
Speaker 3: in my belly to say, I don't know what this is,
Speaker 3: but I love everything about it. And from there I
Speaker 3: just started reaching out and trying to figure out what
Speaker 3: to do, what the entertainment business was right, what a
Speaker 3: writer was, director, producer, agent, all of those things I
Speaker 3: had to figure out because I'm not from this world
Speaker 3: at all, right, live in California, but this whole thing
Speaker 3: of growing up in the Midwest, I had never even
Speaker 3: been to California growing up, never been to New York
Speaker 3: growing up, So, you know, planning the league got me
Speaker 3: able to see a bunch of different things in my life.
Speaker 3: But when I was living in Cali and I had
Speaker 3: that moment, I'm like, I can do this. But that
Speaker 3: was the moment I just knew I had to do
Speaker 3: something entertainment. That's kind of what started it.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Will Smith, I saw that you used to
Speaker 2: get confused quite a bit for Will Smith.
Speaker 1: Or was it that you used to say you were.
Speaker 3: It depends on the ass, you know what. So because
Speaker 3: I started coming out to California because my agent was
Speaker 3: Dwayne Martin and him and Tisa Campbell married at the
Speaker 3: same time or married at that time, should I say.
Speaker 3: And he was partners with Will, you know, with a
Speaker 3: bunch of business ventures and movies and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: So I got to hang up with a lot. But
Speaker 3: I knew that we kind of looked alike from the
Speaker 3: audience perspective of just walking around maybe hat on or whatever.
Speaker 3: The demeanor we had it, you know, I think that
Speaker 3: was it. But then I started when I'm moving to
Speaker 3: LA When I was out there a lot, I'd go
Speaker 3: to Vallet and I'd have people come up to me.
Speaker 3: But this is just when I'm getting done playing. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: they still think I'm Hatch, you know. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: let me and they're looking at me like you got
Speaker 3: Will Smith. I'm like, oh you thought I would Nah, No, No,
Speaker 3: So I got confused here and there, but I just
Speaker 3: thought it was me being half a celebrity, if you will,
Speaker 3: Like maybe he saw my one touchdown I had in
Speaker 3: the league. I don't know. You know, I'm trying to
Speaker 3: I'm trying to live it all a little bit longer.
Speaker 3: But I used to get confusing him quite a lot.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, did you ever take advantage of the confusion?
Speaker 3: You know what? I have? Not? I should have. I
Speaker 3: should have.
Speaker 2: There's some good tables at some LA restaurants or you know,
Speaker 2: like you got up into the vip vip because they
Speaker 2: thought you was Will Smith.
Speaker 3: I'm not mad, you know, well, you know what's funny.
Speaker 3: Maybe I have, but maybe it was the ego at
Speaker 3: the time. I got up in there because I'm Hatch,
Speaker 3: you know, because LA is funny like that. You can
Speaker 3: go to one thing, like one event during sb's or oscars,
Speaker 3: and they were like, you know, hey, come on, yep,
Speaker 3: you go home, gone in, and then you go somewhere
Speaker 3: else and you can stand in line for an hour. Yeah,
Speaker 3: oh you ain't big enough to get it here, you know.
Speaker 3: So I was kind of that struggle of the in
Speaker 3: between times. I don't know if I'm me or him, right,
Speaker 3: I don't have a clue, but yeah, it all worked.
Speaker 2: So when did you know when it came to your
Speaker 2: NFL career? When did you know that you were done,
Speaker 2: that this it was over?
Speaker 3: It was it. That was. I was playing with Jacksonville
Speaker 3: and I think I've ever told the story. Actually, So
Speaker 3: I'm playing with jackson Bill and I had started the
Speaker 3: first four games, and.
Speaker 2: This was like two thousand and three, I think, right,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: Three or four. So I'm like, okay, yeah, And so
Speaker 3: I remember JJ Stokes was a big free agent signing.
Speaker 3: I had went over to Amsterdam and then I played
Speaker 3: over there. It's coming off an injured shoulder, and they're like,
Speaker 3: you know, well Hatch can't run anymore. Like, well thanks,
Speaker 3: So I go to over to Amsterdam plays show them
Speaker 3: that I can still run, still play whatever that is.
Speaker 3: And I was mad that I was over there. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I should not have to be over right, So I
Speaker 3: thought I was in a no win situation. If you
Speaker 3: go over there and play well, they're gonna say, well,
Speaker 3: it's both to do that. I go over there and
Speaker 3: play bad. Let's see. I told you he was done.
Speaker 3: So I was like, whenever went over there, played well,
Speaker 3: you know, got like the MVP and Ring of van
Speaker 3: Or did all that stuff like I was supposed to
Speaker 3: in my opinion, So I come back. I'm not the
Speaker 3: highest gun the total poll at the Jacksonville Jaguars at
Speaker 3: the time, I'm probably, you know, the probably twelfth guy.
Speaker 3: I'm the young on the rock on the receiver depth
Speaker 3: chart in June when I get there, but I end
Speaker 3: up bawling out. In preseason started the first four games,
Speaker 3: we're owing four Byron Leffritz is a rookie. Mark Burnell
Speaker 3: was the starter, and we're struggling. But to me, I'm
Speaker 3: playing good right, I'm doing my job right. Our bye
Speaker 3: week was week's fixed, but Jimmy Smith was suspended, so
Speaker 3: me and JJ were both the starter for the first
Speaker 3: four weeks. So Jimmy comes back weeks five and six.
Speaker 3: They feed Jimmy the ball like he's getting like ten
Speaker 3: targets a game, you know, like six catches like at
Speaker 3: both games or something like that. So then our bye
Speaker 3: week is the seventh week. So we're sitting at one
Speaker 3: in five and I think Jack del Reel is like,
Speaker 3: we're gonna make some changes blah blah blah, and so receivers,
Speaker 3: you know, we're starting to go over the our stuff
Speaker 3: we did for the first six weeks in order to
Speaker 3: kind of get ready for the rest of the season.
Speaker 3: So we come in have a breakdown. He's like, this
Speaker 3: is Jimmy Smith. This is how you do it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: We're throwing the ball, you know, twenty I think like
Speaker 3: eighteen times, and he's got like twelve catches in two games.
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's pretty cool, right, good, But he's getting
Speaker 3: the ball more thrown too. And then so I was like,
Speaker 3: they didn't say nothing about me. Of course, I'm just
Speaker 3: going to watch it. So after everybody leaves, I come in.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna look at my own stats. I never just
Speaker 3: did that. I never looked at myself like that. It
Speaker 3: was always, you know, team first, and I was looking
Speaker 3: at the stats. I'm like, after six weeks, I'm leading
Speaker 3: this team in every receiving category, right, receive receptions, yards,
Speaker 3: and touchdowns, and so like, well, that's not good enough.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's about percentage of wins. So I go look
Speaker 3: at how many times I've been targeted and I have catches.
Speaker 3: So I think I've been targeted like twenty eight times
Speaker 3: but had like twenty two catches, which would also be
Speaker 3: the number one percentage on the team, and after that,
Speaker 3: I didn't dress another game that season. So at that point,
Speaker 3: I was kind of like I'd done all I could do.
Speaker 3: I think I've just it's not working out for me.
Speaker 3: This is not what I imagine of a starting receiver
Speaker 3: to be in the NFL, Like I thought you were
Speaker 3: just once you play well, you start for the rest
Speaker 3: of you know whatever. But it wasn't like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: met at the politics. I've just thought that inside. I
Speaker 3: started four games, that was the best I could do.
Speaker 3: I think this is it. I thought that was my ceiling. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: I thought that was my ceiling. Yes, I wanted Pro
Speaker 3: Bowls and Super Bowls and one hundred million dollar contracts,
Speaker 3: but I was like, maybe that's just not for me,
Speaker 3: and maybe there's something else out there for me. And
Speaker 3: at that moment, I will start to trending say I
Speaker 3: think I've done all I could do in the NFL.
Speaker 3: It was great, but I'm not going to ever have
Speaker 3: those opportunities to really be at number one in this league,
Speaker 3: and therefore I'm probably just going to start changing my
Speaker 3: direction in life. And that's when I retired the following.
Speaker 2: Now I have to say, I've been covering sports now
Speaker 2: for you know, almost thirty years. Honestly, I've never heard
Speaker 2: I've never heard a retirement story that way. Usually I've
Speaker 2: never heard that type of retirement store typically is injury,
Speaker 2: especially in the NFL, as you know, body gets bet up.
Speaker 2: But it sounds like you had the self awareness to
Speaker 2: realize that I have reached my ceiling. Since this is
Speaker 2: my ceiling, what am I still doing this for?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So how you know, as you come to terms with that,
Speaker 2: what did you imagine or think about what your life
Speaker 2: outside of the NFL would look.
Speaker 3: Like at the time? What did I imagine it? Like?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, because you're I mean, at least by the way,
Speaker 2: I mean, I just granted I have your bio and
Speaker 2: all that, and it's you know, your last year on
Speaker 2: year in Jacksonville, you were twenty nine, So like you're
Speaker 2: twenty nine, thirty years old. Most people don't think about
Speaker 2: I'm retired at thirty, you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 2: it's like you're retired at thirty, So like, what are
Speaker 2: you thinking your life is supposed to look like?
Speaker 3: Now? In a bad way, I thought it would be
Speaker 3: vacation golf, hanging out, partying when I want to. That's
Speaker 3: what I thought NFL retirement was in my eyes. I
Speaker 3: learned that that's not who I am, it's not what
Speaker 3: I want, it's not what successful people do. So I'm
Speaker 3: mad that I imagine it that way. But that was
Speaker 3: only probably because the perception I had of all the
Speaker 3: things I've seen on media and what I've heard from
Speaker 3: other teammate, whatever that stuff was, that was my picture.
Speaker 3: But I'm that would have made me absolutely miserable. There's
Speaker 3: no sitting around because I remember my agent said, why
Speaker 3: don't you go to Hawaiian and figure out your life?
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, not an option, like just stay in
Speaker 3: Hawaii for a month and a half and do nothing
Speaker 3: Like that's just a miserable time to me. So that's
Speaker 3: when I like said going into the entertainment industry, it
Speaker 3: took my focus because I didn't know nothing. So I
Speaker 3: had to lose myself for eighteen hour days of reading
Speaker 3: scripts and figuring out, you know, how to shoot a
Speaker 3: doc or how to shoot this movie, and going to
Speaker 3: acting class and going to directing class. All of those
Speaker 3: things I got. I had to forget about ball and
Speaker 3: that's why it helped me and golf myself into the
Speaker 3: transitioning because I didn't want to be the guy on vacation.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be the guy golfing every day. Now,
Speaker 3: people love golfing and people love that I get it,
Speaker 3: But to me, that's just not what if I'm looking
Speaker 3: at now, being older and knowing what this life is about.
Speaker 3: If I'm looking at the top hundred billionaires in the world,
Speaker 3: they can make one hundred million, five hundred, they still
Speaker 3: wake up the next day and they go get it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: When Kobe got done winning a championship, Let's go get
Speaker 3: another championship. When Jordan got done, you know, winning a
Speaker 3: champ Let's go get another championship. So I didn't think
Speaker 3: about it like I've made it, Like, no, this is
Speaker 3: letting me go get another the ring I never had, Right,
Speaker 3: let me go get another ring, but in a different genre,
Speaker 3: right in a different lane. That's why I looked at it.
Speaker 3: But I definitely my perception of what it would look
Speaker 3: like did not match who I was as a person.
Speaker 3: So I'm kind of glad that I figured that out
Speaker 3: really quickly and I got to englf myself into something else.
Speaker 2: So were you are you the type of person and
Speaker 2: was this part of your DNA As a competitor, will
Speaker 2: you think more about the losses than the winds?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Don't even think about the winds. It's funny now,
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, coaching and mentoring kids, just like
Speaker 3: failure is part of success, you know, it's not the
Speaker 3: opposite of it. People want to always, well, I don't fail,
Speaker 3: I don't lose. Well don't you don't learn neither. And
Speaker 3: I just remember Warren Buffett made a statement, you know,
Speaker 3: they were talking to him about what projects do you
Speaker 3: invest in when they're your friends you get you know,
Speaker 3: you got hundreds of friends and they are coming to
Speaker 3: you with thousands of ideas. Who do you invest in?
Speaker 3: And Warren Buffett said, I've only invested in my friends
Speaker 3: who have failed at their business three times. And that
Speaker 3: was amazing to me because you know, get you've got,
Speaker 3: you got money, You've been pitched all this stuff and
Speaker 3: the first thing they say this is guaranteed. That's the
Speaker 3: last thing I want to hear about an investment, right
Speaker 3: or you know, because you don't know everything, so you're
Speaker 3: gonna fail. But the worst part about somebody being non
Speaker 3: self aware is it's okay to fail. It's okay to
Speaker 3: tell people, YEF, I messed this up, and shoot, I
Speaker 3: thought it was this and I did this, but it
Speaker 3: wasn't it. But I'm going to get back up on
Speaker 3: my horse and go for another ride. That's where the
Speaker 3: character comes in. That's where the determination comes in. And
Speaker 3: I think that's what molds the person to become successful,
Speaker 3: not the person saying I never lose and I always
Speaker 3: win like that's this of it, because it's not reality
Speaker 3: and it's not happening.
Speaker 2: So with that being said, you were part of that
Speaker 2: fifteen to one Minnesota team that lost of the Falcons
Speaker 2: and the NFC Championship. Yeah in overtime, Yes, you forget
Speaker 2: that g went to overtime. Yeah, you play with Randy Moss,
Speaker 2: with Chris Carter, Randall Cunningham.
Speaker 1: How long or how much did that last stay with you?
Speaker 3: Still to this day? I always think would it be
Speaker 3: different if we personally think that team we would have ran.
Speaker 3: We would have definitely ran it back one the following
Speaker 3: year and we were on our way to a dynasty, right.
Speaker 3: But I think the locker room part of our team
Speaker 3: was the reason we did not win that game. I
Speaker 3: think we fell apart as a team as a group watching,
Speaker 3: of course, what the Patriots have done in this last
Speaker 3: you know, twenty years. It's more about the team concept
Speaker 3: and the Wii and not k me concept. And I
Speaker 3: just think some of those things that were happening in
Speaker 3: our locker room, not to the media, but I think
Speaker 3: that hurt us in the long run of trying to
Speaker 3: win that game even and again, it just it. I
Speaker 3: think we still win that game nine out of ten times,
Speaker 3: but it's hard to get to the Super Bowl, hard
Speaker 3: to win the Super Bowl, it's hard to have a championship.
Speaker 3: So like that part of it doesn't bother me, But
Speaker 3: it's just being there and being so close. And don't
Speaker 3: forget in that fourth quarter, with like six minutes left,
Speaker 3: I got a touchdown that put us up by ten points.
Speaker 3: So it's not like we were just losing the game
Speaker 3: all game, like we were up winning And I remember
Speaker 3: after catching that touchdown, we're on the sideline, were talking
Speaker 3: about our plans to Miami like it's over, like we're
Speaker 3: up by ten and it's hey, y'all, you know we're
Speaker 3: doing that whole thing and get ready to go to
Speaker 3: Miami for the Bowl. Because it's over, we're up by
Speaker 3: ten and we're going to get the ball back. But again,
Speaker 3: it just did not work out like that unfortunately. Again
Speaker 3: talking about curses for franchises and people's bad luck, all
Speaker 3: of those things, it's irrelevant of the conversation. But you know,
Speaker 3: you just don't know until you really have a win tol,
Speaker 3: you really have the money in the bank, because I
Speaker 3: like to say so, it's like you have to really
Speaker 3: just be in that moment every single time when you're
Speaker 3: in that moment, and take advantage of the opportunity. And
Speaker 3: I try to tell a lot of these kids now
Speaker 3: are younger players playing in the league, You're only great
Speaker 3: if you can be great when the time comes up
Speaker 3: and you're great, right the game winning shot. You got
Speaker 3: to make it, you know, a couple of times, but
Speaker 3: you got to make it. You can't, well, I'm great,
Speaker 3: I'm great, and then you shrink in big games or
Speaker 3: you know, you shrinking. So I've always played my best
Speaker 3: in playoff games throughout my career. So I was just like,
Speaker 3: you know what, this game, we were supposed to be there.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it would change my life, but
Speaker 3: we were definitely supposed to be in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2: That year, Atlanta went on, they played the Broncos, they
Speaker 2: got smoked by the Broncos.
Speaker 1: And the Super Bowl. Do you think you all would
Speaker 1: have beat the Broncos?
Speaker 3: Not even close. We would have beaten them by thirty,
Speaker 3: not even close, because again we were we would we
Speaker 3: would have put eight in the box, right, we would
Speaker 3: have put eight in the box. But we were we
Speaker 3: were just so explosive. And again, people see no huddle
Speaker 3: nowadays and they see, you know, a team that scored
Speaker 3: thirty and we were doing this with like chunks down
Speaker 3: the field. We would do it forty yard you know
Speaker 3: plays and spend thirty yard plays and twenty yard players
Speaker 3: we're doing We're so explosive from every position on the field.
Speaker 3: Tight end Andrew Glover, running back Robert Smith, we have
Speaker 3: Moss Carter, me Jake Reid was you know, we had
Speaker 3: players that were going to make plays. Our defense was
Speaker 3: making big plays, pick sixes and stuff like that. So
Speaker 3: it's not like when we were going to score and
Speaker 3: it was going to kind of like kind of figure
Speaker 3: our way out through the first quarter that against Denver,
Speaker 3: we would have probably went up and went twenty one,
Speaker 3: twenty eight in the first half for sure, and they
Speaker 3: didn't have the deep, they didn't have the horses to
Speaker 3: mess with us on the offensive side. They just didn't Yeah, sorry, sorry, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 1: To refresh people.
Speaker 2: So that Denver team, you know, as obviously as lway
Speaker 2: Asterreal Davis, Shannon Shark, McCaffrey, Yeah, mccaffree senior.
Speaker 3: Year, Yeah, senior right right, And.
Speaker 2: Yes, mccaffree senior is on that team. And they were
Speaker 2: considered explosive in their own right. But I know these
Speaker 2: days people are used to like aerial attack just being
Speaker 2: a regular part of the game, people throwing all the time.
Speaker 2: But that Minnesota team was just deadly, like it was
Speaker 2: one of my favorite teams to play with in Madden.
Speaker 1: I was like, Hatch, I used.
Speaker 3: TOPSe Yeah already you know they have me in the slot,
Speaker 3: they have me in mad remember the outside guys with
Speaker 3: just yes, correct you.
Speaker 2: That's why you were made a weapon because everybody so
Speaker 2: like but I.
Speaker 1: Would be abusive.
Speaker 3: So you use me better than any of my offensive
Speaker 3: coordinators at the time, So you know, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yes, of course.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a lot more I definitely want to
Speaker 2: ask you about as we continue to talk about your pivots, entertainment,
Speaker 2: some of the projects you're doing, and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: also a couple more football things. But we're going to
Speaker 2: take a quick break and we'll be right back with
Speaker 2: more with Matthew had Ye. All right, we were we
Speaker 2: were talking about that fifteen and one Minnesota team before
Speaker 2: the break. You know, you had the you had the
Speaker 2: front row seat. He was your quarterback, Randall Cunningham. And
Speaker 2: for these kids today who did not understand who round
Speaker 2: Randall Cunningham was, especially at that time.
Speaker 1: Look, he was more than just a dude that did
Speaker 1: a guest appearance on.
Speaker 3: Market, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, he had yeah right right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, more too up to that that dude was.
Speaker 2: He's one of the most incredible athletes that ever has
Speaker 2: played that position.
Speaker 1: Just incredible quarterbacks and players period.
Speaker 2: Yes, But what did Randall Cunningham do And this is
Speaker 2: mostly for those the audience that did not wasn't able
Speaker 2: to really see him play.
Speaker 1: What do you think he did for the perception of
Speaker 1: black quarterbacks?
Speaker 3: Oh well, he changed it tremendously because he was one
Speaker 3: of the guys to African American guys who could throw
Speaker 3: it and run it. Right, we always want the l
Speaker 3: way of course could do both as well, right, but
Speaker 3: he was still in the cookie cutter box of the position.
Speaker 3: Cunningham was so far out of the box, right. His
Speaker 3: body type, he was lanky. You know, he's going to
Speaker 3: get hurt because you know, he's just too skinny, you know,
Speaker 3: all of those things. So the running around that Randall
Speaker 3: did it was just amazing because don't forget, he was
Speaker 3: like a probably a four to four guy, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean he wasn't Michael Vick's four two, but at
Speaker 3: that position a guy run in a four to four.
Speaker 3: He was running away from backers and jumping over people,
Speaker 3: and his you know, his body would get bent a
Speaker 3: certain way and you know, look like rubber Man, you know,
Speaker 3: uh throw, you know when he gets tackled, and then
Speaker 3: the next play he's throwing a forty yard bomb. So
Speaker 3: I think this his his image of being a quarterback
Speaker 3: at that time in the league, where there was nobody
Speaker 3: doing that. That's what change the perception. That's what changed
Speaker 3: offensive coordinators' mindsets of Oh, we can run my system
Speaker 3: with him and still win the game doing it my way,
Speaker 3: because most of the time they see a black quarterback, Oh,
Speaker 3: I have to change my system now you don't. You
Speaker 3: can call this. You would call the plays for Joe Montana,
Speaker 3: John Elway and Troy Aikman. But by the way, he
Speaker 3: might just go ahead and run this play on third
Speaker 3: down and go get you ten or forty. You don't
Speaker 3: even know. But I think now, looking back, as I'm
Speaker 3: a play caller, now I look at it as that's
Speaker 3: the best weapon to have because from an offensive perspective,
Speaker 3: you get to play eleven on eleven. Most of the time,
Speaker 3: you're playing ten on eleven because the quarterback's unaccounted for
Speaker 3: because you know where he's going to be and he's
Speaker 3: not gonna run it, he's gonna throw it, or he's
Speaker 3: going to hand it off. But when you're playing eleven
Speaker 3: on eleven, all those numbers have changed from safety in
Speaker 3: the box, linebacker in the box, and or having a spy.
Speaker 3: And of course that's what you see now in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five is you're playing eleven on eleven every single time.
Speaker 3: That's why you have the advantage of an offensive coordinator.
Speaker 2: And to me, the most he had a lot of
Speaker 2: impressive statistics. The most impressive stat he ever had to
Speaker 2: me was he's the only player in history to complete
Speaker 2: a fifty yard pass and this is all in the
Speaker 2: same game. A fifty yard touchdown pass, to run for
Speaker 2: over or to have an over fifty yards in a
Speaker 2: touchdown run, and.
Speaker 1: Two punts for over yards in the same game.
Speaker 2: He threw a fifty yard pass or it was a
Speaker 2: fifty yard pass he threw he ran for over fifty
Speaker 2: like he had a fifty had a long run.
Speaker 1: I forgot how many yards it was, and he punted
Speaker 1: ninety yards.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's one zone in zone one. Yeah, yeah, he wanted.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, man like that.
Speaker 3: People people always like want to stay look at stuff
Speaker 3: like that. Well, but he kicked it. I'm like, but
Speaker 3: this is somebody who's not a kick He's just an athlete, right,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. But like people, it's okay,
Speaker 3: CEOs or vice presidents of people out there at some company,
Speaker 3: go and do three other jobs today at your job,
Speaker 3: and you'll see how hard it is to do three
Speaker 3: people's job in one day. Like, it's not an easy task.
Speaker 3: And don't forget he's also doing this against the best
Speaker 3: athletes in the world and making it look easy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he was just a freakish athlete.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, as you mentioned it was.
Speaker 2: It used to be just kind of an accepted reality
Speaker 2: that when it was black quarterbacks. You know, a lot
Speaker 2: of black quarterbacks had their careers kind of ruined because
Speaker 2: they got with offensive coordinators or head coaches who understand
Speaker 2: their skill set right and how to maximize that, or
Speaker 2: just kept trying to sort of force a square peg
Speaker 2: into a round hole. How much was Randall Cunningham helped
Speaker 2: by the fact that Denny Green was his coach.
Speaker 3: Oh night and day. If he could have probably went
Speaker 3: somewhere else because don't forget, remember he had retired and
Speaker 3: he came out of retirement. If he would have went
Speaker 3: to another team, I don't think or he could might
Speaker 3: not have had the best career at the Press season
Speaker 3: ever because that was his best season as a pro
Speaker 3: and he was balling in Philly. But him for him,
Speaker 3: he won NFL MVP that year. But it was all
Speaker 3: to me, which best coach I ever had was Denny Green,
Speaker 3: because it wasn't about say do it my way, Let
Speaker 3: me find out what he does well, use him for that,
Speaker 3: and then of course put the pieces around him to
Speaker 3: help him facilitate and be successful in this system. So
Speaker 3: for Dinny to see that early, not overwhelm him with
Speaker 3: you have to do it the way our system is.
Speaker 3: Overwhelm him. You have to do it with the way
Speaker 3: our Brad Johnson was doing it, because don't forget Brad
Speaker 3: started Week one, I think, but all of our concerns
Speaker 3: going into Week one was Brad can't reach Moss on
Speaker 3: the go ball. Like he had a good arm, but
Speaker 3: he wasn't throwing those sixty yard rockets like Randa was.
Speaker 3: So even though we had a successful game versus Tampa
Speaker 3: week one, the offense wasn't opening up until Randall played
Speaker 3: in that offense because we know now Moss can stretch
Speaker 3: the field and people are like, well every quarterback can
Speaker 3: throw it down there, Like, no, you can't them balls
Speaker 3: was down there. They were down the field and Mass
Speaker 3: was out running these guys, and that makes a huge
Speaker 3: difference for Dinny Green to even see that, understand that.
Speaker 3: But when we see it, I think it was the
Speaker 3: first time we seen I think Mass. I think the
Speaker 3: Bengals game it was like one of those I swear
Speaker 3: the balls in the air for at these seventy seventy
Speaker 3: five yards and you saw a bomb back in the
Speaker 3: day was caught the go ball right. Bomb was caught
Speaker 3: at forty and five right, so it was forty yards
Speaker 3: down the field, five yards to the sideline. So everybody
Speaker 3: practiced that. Quarterbacks one, two th four, five, forty and
Speaker 3: five and receivers we run twenty, look up at ten right,
Speaker 3: forty and five. Ball is going to be there. When
Speaker 3: Mass came to the league, he had the mass rule
Speaker 3: and it was fifty and five because he was so
Speaker 3: much further down the field when the ball rise in,
Speaker 3: Corners and safeties were not getting to that spot and
Speaker 3: Randon was the only one that was able to reach
Speaker 3: him on a five and a hitch to throw that ball.
Speaker 3: So again, he changed his whole perception, changed the game.
Speaker 3: And I kind of like Danny Green, and I think
Speaker 3: Brian Billick did a great job. And I don't see
Speaker 3: a lot of that nowadays because I think personally there's
Speaker 3: more coordinators and or coaches that ruin quarterbacks than make
Speaker 3: a quarterback. And I think one of the best coaches
Speaker 3: out there that's really not getting enough I guess enough,
Speaker 3: not excitement, but enough whatever, something good credit there you go.
Speaker 3: Credit get enough. Credit is Todd Mounkin for what he's
Speaker 3: doing with Lamar Jackson, Like, I think he's done a
Speaker 3: great job of, okay, using what Lamar does. Still this system,
Speaker 3: use these pieces. I think there's a lot of systems
Speaker 3: and coaches that would not do as well with Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3: And we know Lamar is Lamar. I feel like he's
Speaker 3: an NFL MVP. But you put them in another system
Speaker 3: and there'll be a bunch of people screaming, well, he
Speaker 3: can't do this and he can't do that. Well, that's
Speaker 3: the coach's fault. And I just don't think that's talked
Speaker 3: enough right now. Like again, that marriage up there in
Speaker 3: Baltimore's great, and that reminds me of what Danny Green
Speaker 3: did with the random Cunningham.
Speaker 1: So in practice, did you ever try to race Randy Moss?
Speaker 3: You know what? This is how we raced because we
Speaker 3: raced every game. So in back in the day when
Speaker 3: the TV copy you could barely see the edge of
Speaker 3: the receivers where the receivers would stand, right. So every play,
Speaker 3: if we're running a run play, like our goal was
Speaker 3: who would get to the ten yard mark first? I
Speaker 3: mean I was a four to three coming out, so
Speaker 3: I'm not no slouts, you know what I'm saying? But
Speaker 3: to me, I could I ran a four to three
Speaker 3: for four quarters, like I didn't get tired. I never
Speaker 3: got tired. So by that like third and fourth quarter,
Speaker 3: I think I was beating Moss on a couple of
Speaker 3: times to that ten yard mark here and there. But
Speaker 3: I could definitely come off the ball. What I my
Speaker 3: time overall was that a four to two like Moss. No,
Speaker 3: but I could probably beat him one out of ten
Speaker 3: times because he go get tired.
Speaker 2: Sure you know, I'm sure you've seen because he announced
Speaker 2: it himself that he's back in cancer.
Speaker 1: Have you talked to Randy?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I hit him up. I say, just you know,
Speaker 3: just praying for you, because we've been been in contact,
Speaker 3: you know, through our retirement and he was always coming
Speaker 3: out here to La for Fox, and he was on Fox,
Speaker 3: you know, hooping every day, you know, just trying to
Speaker 3: stay young, stay healthy or not every day. But when
Speaker 3: he was out here, like every Saturday, we used to
Speaker 3: hoop whatever. But it was you know, good times then.
Speaker 3: And now that we're both on this side of you know,
Speaker 3: of our age, you know that when that hit, I
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, it's real, you know, but I told him,
Speaker 3: you know, I tell him all the time. I'm praying
Speaker 3: for you, you know, getting stay healthy, get healthy, stay healthy,
Speaker 3: watch what you eat. All those conversations we have now
Speaker 3: compared to you know, what we had, you know, twenty
Speaker 3: years ago. Crazy because again that was my roommate when
Speaker 3: he got to the Vikings and we were pretty close
Speaker 3: that whole time I was there. And now, you know,
Speaker 3: to see this shoot twenty eight, twenty eight years later,
Speaker 3: twenty seven years later, it's crazy. But you know, he's
Speaker 3: you know, had a great success. To me, I've been
Speaker 3: very successful after a playing as well, doing media, what
Speaker 3: people didn't really think he would ever do because he
Speaker 3: couldn't stand the media proposedly. But yeah know, but then
Speaker 3: he gets on there and everybody loves him. I'm happy
Speaker 3: for him. Like I said, I don't think he revamped
Speaker 3: his his image if you will, but I just think
Speaker 3: that's who he is. Just nobody saw it because he
Speaker 3: just didn't want to be seen, you know, like people
Speaker 3: didn't see him all the time. They did me hear
Speaker 3: him in interviews when he finally came out, they're like,
Speaker 3: that's Randy Molson. Yeah, that's ryand the most that's how
Speaker 3: we talked, you know. So it's their first time because
Speaker 3: he didn't do a lot of that stuff when he
Speaker 3: was playing. He just didn't want to. But I personally
Speaker 3: think he did it the right way. And I remember
Speaker 3: because everybody wants to get on him because he didn't
Speaker 3: do what they wanted him to do, especially the media.
Speaker 3: I want you to do interviews now. I want you
Speaker 3: to do interviews at Super Bowl. I want you to
Speaker 3: do them when you win. And Randy I'm doing I
Speaker 3: want to do it. And I just remember Tom Brady.
Speaker 3: They asked Tom Brady after Patrick Mahomes won his first
Speaker 3: Super Bowl, you know he won no second super Bowl.
Speaker 3: He's so young, he's going to catch your record and
Speaker 3: you know all these he's going to end up with
Speaker 3: more rings than you, Like, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 3: And I remember Brady saying, if Patrick Mahomes wants to
Speaker 3: catch me, he's going to have to change his life.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I thought, I'm like interesting, because
Speaker 3: Brady knows you have to disappear, right Patrick pretty much.
Speaker 3: I mean he does some things here and there, but
Speaker 3: in the public eye, when you're the guy, you got
Speaker 3: to disappear. Mass had disappeared. They just didn't like that.
Speaker 3: It was mass and he disappeared. They wanted more of him.
Speaker 3: Most didn't give you that, but if you think about it,
Speaker 3: Brady didn't give you that neither. Right, Patrick doesn't give
Speaker 3: you that neither. A couple of commercials here and there,
Speaker 3: but those guys aren't always available. You know, you're going
Speaker 3: to do your interviews now because the NFL has this
Speaker 3: contract with you know, these TV stations, all that stuff,
Speaker 3: But really, in the limelight and your lifestyle, you really
Speaker 3: have to disappear to be one of these best players
Speaker 3: in sports history.
Speaker 2: You know, Like you mentioned Randy pivoting the media, it
Speaker 2: was it was kind of funny and also surprising, but
Speaker 2: you know, I mean he I never imagine Nick Saby
Speaker 2: would be in that either because he also didn't like
Speaker 2: the media. But yeah, sometimes those are guys that give
Speaker 2: you the most valuable insight. But with that being said,
Speaker 2: you have, you know, you know a lot of retired players,
Speaker 2: and you yourself have obviously been in that position. Why
Speaker 2: does it seem like so many professional athletes, particularly football players,
Speaker 2: seem to struggle once they.
Speaker 3: Retire mentality, the mindset. I made it to the league.
Speaker 3: They forget that it took him to ten years twelve years.
Speaker 3: Fifteen years because they started playing football at nine, they
Speaker 3: got drafted at twenty three. They started playing football at five,
Speaker 3: they got drafted at twenty one. That's fifteen years or something.
Speaker 3: You don't just get out of the NFL and say
Speaker 3: I'm good at this over here. It don't work like that.
Speaker 3: Most of the time we're like, well, since we made
Speaker 3: it to the NFL, I'm warranted a shortcut to have
Speaker 3: success in something else. No, that ain't it. We think that,
Speaker 3: we hope that, but you're going to have to go
Speaker 3: through a period of time or you're going to struggle,
Speaker 3: you're going to fail, you're gonna be misunderstood all for
Speaker 3: another lane that you don't want to feel that way
Speaker 3: because now you you've been a superstar for so long,
Speaker 3: you don't know how it is to go back to
Speaker 3: get it from the mud. So that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 3: I think that mindset of the world owes me something,
Speaker 3: or you know, I played in the league, so you
Speaker 3: guys are supposed to give me this deal like all
Speaker 3: those things. It just doesn't happen because you're still going
Speaker 3: up against the other one percent center that has been
Speaker 3: been in the business for fifteen years, and I think
Speaker 3: if they understand that, they're like, you know what, let
Speaker 3: me just go back to work. It might take some time,
Speaker 3: but you do instill the qualities inside you that you
Speaker 3: can still go do anything that you want. It's going
Speaker 3: to take some time. It's going to take some grip.
Speaker 2: It sounds like once you decided that you wanted to
Speaker 2: get into entertainment, then you started learning the components of entertainment. Okay,
Speaker 2: this is what the director does. You know you went
Speaker 2: on an educational fact finding mission.
Speaker 1: Did you have a oh, this is.
Speaker 2: How they do things entertainment moment, like a you know
Speaker 2: how they say the welcome to the NFL moment?
Speaker 1: Like did you have a welcome to Hollywood? At the
Speaker 1: moment where you're like.
Speaker 10: Oh, this, I don't know if it's a welcome to
Speaker 10: Hollywood story, but I'll tell you a funny story that it's.
Speaker 3: It was a humbling experience, I'll put it that way. So,
Speaker 3: because when I was playing, and when I first probably
Speaker 3: the first five years I got out, I was really
Speaker 3: on the scene, going all to the movie sets and
Speaker 3: video shoots and all this stuff, right because I'm meeting people,
Speaker 3: and it was easy for me to get on because
Speaker 3: I guess I still had the NFL tag behind me.
Speaker 3: So will you know Will's movies, Handcock and all that.
Speaker 3: We would always go to the trailers and you know,
Speaker 3: hang out, we go, shoot the scene, come out, come back.
Speaker 3: We're playing Domino's and Space till the next scene. You know,
Speaker 3: they got two hours. I gotta you know, re you know,
Speaker 3: do the lighting or whatever. So I forget what movie
Speaker 3: it was. I think it was might have been seven pounds,
Speaker 3: but so you know me, well, y'all shooting now, you
Speaker 3: know whatever? Oh y'all be downtown, okay, on it, get
Speaker 3: over there? Hey, what's up to seeing everybody? So I said,
Speaker 3: what's up to everybody? And then like I was there
Speaker 3: for like maybe five minutes, Like thirty seconds later, dude
Speaker 3: was like, uh, you gotta go, Like what you mean,
Speaker 3: I gotta go? Yeah, you you can't be over here.
Speaker 3: I'm like the first time I ever got kicked off
Speaker 3: a set, and I was that's my this is how
Speaker 3: they do it in Hollywood moment. Not in a bad way,
Speaker 3: but I'm just like, yeah, I have to become bigger
Speaker 3: in this business or I need to have more of
Speaker 3: a of a footprint in this business. But that was
Speaker 3: the most humbling experience I've ever had in my life.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, if all y'all you know, I didn't
Speaker 3: want to be here. I don't want to be here anyway,
Speaker 3: you know, one of those. But I remember they kicked
Speaker 3: me off set, and that was the first time I
Speaker 3: wasn't mad. I was just like, you know what, let
Speaker 3: me go. It was. It was the kid that when
Speaker 3: the adults were playing basketball and you were too small
Speaker 3: and like, no, he can't play yet. That's how I
Speaker 3: took that. Let me go work on some projects, let
Speaker 3: me go get my let me go get better at
Speaker 3: what I do, so y'all go see me later. That's
Speaker 3: how I felt. But I remember that was probably the
Speaker 3: most humbling experience in the entertainment industry so far.
Speaker 1: So what did you feel like?
Speaker 2: Was a break or maybe we could have been more
Speaker 2: than one that really got you sort of in the
Speaker 2: right circle of influence and that you needed to be
Speaker 2: in Hollywood.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The funny thing is I mean, is it a break,
Speaker 3: was it timing or is it both? But I remember
Speaker 3: how I met my business partner Brad Furman, right, big
Speaker 3: studio director. Now we did the movie to take together.
Speaker 3: But how we met was just playing basketball and my
Speaker 3: buddy Braxon Polp producer. You know, he's like, we're Gonnavite,
Speaker 3: Brad and me and Brad just vibe like we were
Speaker 3: like cool, let's go do a project together. He's a director,
Speaker 3: I was when I was financial movies. We just had
Speaker 3: the same energy, the same go get it mentality, mentality,
Speaker 3: the same we don't know what we're doing yet, but
Speaker 3: we go figure it out, you know, mindset, and we
Speaker 3: end up doing our first project together, you know, one
Speaker 3: awards for it was up for an Independent Spirit Awards.
Speaker 3: It was a great project for us. And of course
Speaker 3: since then he's been doing these huge movies, you know,
Speaker 3: with some of the biggest names in the business. You know.
Speaker 3: But after we did the take, I thought that going back,
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, how did we meet Brad? Yeah,
Speaker 3: we were playing basketball. It was so weird to me,
Speaker 3: like it was was it a break or was it timing?
Speaker 3: I have no idea, but me and Brad Furman, we've
Speaker 3: been too good friends for I guess fifteen going on
Speaker 3: twenty plus years now, and we just met playing basketball
Speaker 3: out here in La Oh.
Speaker 2: You know, there's probably especially these days, you know, given
Speaker 2: the influence of social media, and I think athletes coming
Speaker 2: up now feel like, you know, their brand is important,
Speaker 2: and a lot of them do want to pivot into entertainment.
Speaker 1: What would be some bits of advice that you.
Speaker 2: Think would be helpful to other athletes who want to
Speaker 2: sort to get into the industry.
Speaker 3: Make the main thing the main thing. I think all
Speaker 3: the entertainment stuff is a distant priority to what your
Speaker 3: career is. Like I was always the you know on
Speaker 3: the bubble. I was always, you know, I could be
Speaker 3: gone next week. So I just felt like I had
Speaker 3: to grind on both sides. And then looking back. Okay,
Speaker 3: most of the guys who have these huge brands, it's
Speaker 3: it's one phone call for them, you know, they don't
Speaker 3: really have to do it. They can call Say, they
Speaker 3: can call Sony, they can call Lionsgate, they can call
Speaker 3: Universal Records. Like it's one phone call for them. But
Speaker 3: your brand has to be that big, and the only
Speaker 3: way you make your brand that big is if you
Speaker 3: perform well on the field. So I think a lot
Speaker 3: of the probably ninety nine percent of the time, is
Speaker 3: the guys who want to do both. But you can't
Speaker 3: do both because you have to be Steph Curry first
Speaker 3: in order to get that deal, or you have to
Speaker 3: be lebron first in order to get those type of
Speaker 3: you know, these companies calling you back and giving you,
Speaker 3: you know, a podcast deal and or you know, a
Speaker 3: three pitcher deal, whatever they may be. And of course
Speaker 3: also when you play well, you get more money, which
Speaker 3: warrants you to be able to invest more or partner with,
Speaker 3: you know, other companies. It's always a beautiful thing if
Speaker 3: you can go to you know, to Sony and say
Speaker 3: I have ten million dollars and I want to do
Speaker 3: these projects and you guys bring ten million. But if
Speaker 3: you're that guy who played three years and you don't
Speaker 3: have money and you want to go to Sony, like, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm just coming here with an idea, Like those projects
Speaker 3: are not going to get off the ground at when
Speaker 3: you're talking about the big boys. So like to keep
Speaker 3: the main thing, the main thing, focus on your sport
Speaker 3: because this stuff you have time to do, like build
Speaker 3: the relationships, right, go overboard for helping out that you
Speaker 3: know that exec at all these labels and you know
Speaker 3: studio execs, like, you know, go overboard for him. But
Speaker 3: for the most part, like you don't really know the
Speaker 3: industry enough to say, let's do a project like just
Speaker 3: pump your brakes, go play ball. They're going to respect
Speaker 3: you and playing ball. And then when you get done,
Speaker 3: then come back to them, you know, with with a
Speaker 3: better ideas and a better understanding of what you want
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 2: Now, as much as we've talked about entertainment in this
Speaker 2: time that I have you before we wrap up you,
Speaker 2: of course, I mean, this isn't really a pivot because
Speaker 2: you've done this. You know, you've been coaching and at
Speaker 2: the youth level, but now you will be a head
Speaker 2: coach at Huntington Beach High School.
Speaker 3: Look at that, Yeah, buddy, I.
Speaker 2: Mean you have your own film and production company, all
Speaker 2: the things you're doing in entertainment.
Speaker 1: Why become a high school?
Speaker 3: It's the giving back again. I love it. I love
Speaker 3: the mentorship of it. I love this kid's trying to
Speaker 3: figure out the answers to the test. Hey, buddy, I
Speaker 3: have the answers to the test. You know. I really
Speaker 3: feel that there's nothing I haven't seen far from a
Speaker 3: fifteen year old player to a forty year old retired player.
Speaker 3: I have all the stories. If you want to end
Speaker 3: up trying to be the next a Monad Saint Brown,
Speaker 3: and you want to try to be the next Julio Jones,
Speaker 3: Like I have all of their blueprints. I've seen them
Speaker 3: do it from fifteen to twenty five to thirty to
Speaker 3: thirty five. So I like sharing those examples. But most
Speaker 3: of the time the kids are not going to do
Speaker 3: what it takes in order to be that successful because
Speaker 3: it's tough. So I can give you the answers, but
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, most of them can't
Speaker 3: get to that level of dedication and or focus. But
Speaker 3: if they even get halfway there, they're usually going to
Speaker 3: be a successful person. So that's where I find probably
Speaker 3: the most gratitude of Okay, yeah, they're not going to
Speaker 3: all be NFL players, I get that, but there's going
Speaker 3: to be some good kids. They're going to be some
Speaker 3: good adults. They're going to be good parents, good brothers,
Speaker 3: good sons, good other mentors when they're leading others later
Speaker 3: on in life. And I think that's probably the best
Speaker 3: part about high school coaching. Again, I have a lot
Speaker 3: of kids to just call me, you know, hey, I
Speaker 3: just got married last week. I just talked to Matt
Speaker 3: Carral just the other day. He just got married and
Speaker 3: I coach him since he was nine years old, and
Speaker 3: you know it's a match just you know, got cut
Speaker 3: from Carolina and now he's playing in the other league.
Speaker 3: But you know he's went through a lot. Me and
Speaker 3: him went through a lot together. You know, he played
Speaker 3: for me at Long Beach Polly. So it's like those
Speaker 3: stories are those are life changing stores. We're like, this
Speaker 3: is why I do it. And again, you're not going
Speaker 3: to reach everybody. You're still always going to have some
Speaker 3: haters and some kids that don't like you the way
Speaker 3: you do it. But I really believe that what I'm
Speaker 3: giving these kids are the answers and everybody's just not
Speaker 3: going to you know, use take the same test obviously,
Speaker 3: but they can use it in life. It's not really
Speaker 3: about football at the end of the day. These are
Speaker 3: life skills. I think that sports in general is a lifestyle.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's just a sport anymore. I think
Speaker 3: if you live your way a certain live your life
Speaker 3: a certain way to be an athlete, it's going to
Speaker 3: give you those habits and those disciplines to be able
Speaker 3: to do anything right. If you're waking up that five
Speaker 3: to go work out because you love ball all setting
Speaker 3: balls over, You're still going to be waking up at five.
Speaker 3: So maybe at this age, at five, you're waking up
Speaker 3: to read a book. And then maybe when you're fifty
Speaker 3: year this age at five in the morning, maybe you're
Speaker 3: walking around the neighborhood. Right. But I think that habit
Speaker 3: started when it was practice, when you're fourteen years old.
Speaker 3: And I think those are the things that are going
Speaker 3: to keep you know, keep a person striving for the next, next,
Speaker 3: next thing. That all starts with football practice, you know,
Speaker 3: in August in ninety degree weather at five in the morning.
Speaker 2: So did you did you ever contemplate or think about
Speaker 2: coaching at the professional level?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I tried. I went everywhere I've in turn, I've
Speaker 3: done it. You did, Yeah, I guess not easy. When
Speaker 3: I got done or when I was really trying to
Speaker 3: get into a Denny Green was out of the league, right,
Speaker 3: So you usually get in with your under your tree
Speaker 3: who coached you, Right, that's your easiest end. I didn't
Speaker 3: go to a big college, so I really didn't have
Speaker 3: a USC in Texas hookups, right, So I was always
Speaker 3: trying to get to a league job. But yeah, my
Speaker 3: whole Denny Green, the Brian Billicks, all that whole tree.
Speaker 3: There are none of them coaching anywhere. So you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not saying I'll never do it. You know, it's
Speaker 3: still possible. I know my coach with an twentio peers
Speaker 3: at Polly, he got the Risk job last year, but
Speaker 3: he didn't get in there long enough to really, you know,
Speaker 3: do his thing. Aaron Glenn just got the Jets job.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm gonna hit up a g I like
Speaker 3: your boy, you know, down the line. But but every
Speaker 3: summer I said, I'm going to go to intern I
Speaker 3: go to these uh most of the time, the NFL
Speaker 3: has this, uh the internship for African Americans to go
Speaker 3: ahead and kind of get into coaching, right, But if
Speaker 3: you don't make the internship, then you're just left out
Speaker 3: in the cold. So I'm like, I think about four
Speaker 3: or five years ago, I just started saying, forget it.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be in that program. I'll pay
Speaker 3: my own honey, I'll stay in my own place and
Speaker 3: just let me in the building every day for a
Speaker 3: week so I can just learn. And I've been doing
Speaker 3: that and so building relationships and learning that way as well.
Speaker 3: But that helped. That's helped me a lot because I
Speaker 3: just again, you're in the same building, you're learning the
Speaker 3: same stuff, you're getting the same relationships. Yeah, so I
Speaker 3: got I got coaches on every a lot of staff.
Speaker 3: So I just go and kind of learn and sit
Speaker 3: back and try to figure it out. And you said,
Speaker 3: that's what the future holds. That's what the future holds.
Speaker 3: But right now being Huntington Beach, you know, bringing bringing
Speaker 3: hopefully a state championship over the next couple of years
Speaker 3: old and I got some some some twenty Gonzalez is
Speaker 3: alma mater as well, so I'm trying to bring him
Speaker 3: a state ring. But yes, just looking forward to that.
Speaker 3: And then if that's in the future, that's in the future.
Speaker 3: You know, one of my buddies gets the job and
Speaker 3: the NFL they call him, then so be it.
Speaker 2: Okay, before we wrap up this podcast, and again I
Speaker 2: appreciate you spending the time ask every guest also what
Speaker 2: I call a messy question. This is where the controversy
Speaker 2: starts at all. Right, so here's the messy question. Randy Moss,
Speaker 2: your teammate, your friend, your boy you you.
Speaker 1: Know you already know about Jerry Rice's legacy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there all is.
Speaker 1: That's also your the receiver between.
Speaker 3: Lord's Lord, Randy is a Jerry Lord. Can we hit
Speaker 3: Paul on this thing? No, so funny. I've studied the
Speaker 3: game a lot, I've studied the position a lot, and
Speaker 3: I've never ever had a number one number three. I've
Speaker 3: never done it. I've always asked the question, right, I
Speaker 3: always who's your number one? And this is why, and
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. But if you're talking about specifically the
Speaker 3: receiver position, can can play in any system, can have
Speaker 3: any quarterback m hm and get doubled or triple team
Speaker 3: at times and still put up numbers instead of Pro
Speaker 3: Bowl and be all Pro. That would be Randy. I
Speaker 3: don't think you could do that. I think Tea could
Speaker 3: do that. And the reason being, if you look at
Speaker 3: T's touchdowns, this is for everybody to go back invait
Speaker 3: it team, go look at Tho's touchdowns and you'll see
Speaker 3: too running by himself or Steve Farmer guy. Then go
Speaker 3: run by himself his one hundred and fifty three touchdowns,
Speaker 3: which is amazing that they had the same amount of
Speaker 3: touchdowns in their career. That's so awesome to me. And
Speaker 3: if you look at Moss's film, He's always has three
Speaker 3: or four five people in the frame when he catches
Speaker 3: the ball. It was just so much attention that Randy
Speaker 3: had on him. And to still put up those numbers
Speaker 3: was absolutely amazed too. Could he got single covered of
Speaker 3: his one hundred and fifty three touchdowns for one hundred
Speaker 3: and He's gonna disagree with me, but I've counted them all.
Speaker 3: Mass probably was double team over one hundred of his
Speaker 3: touchdown out of one hundred and fifty three. It was
Speaker 3: just different. It was there. And then Jerry to me,
Speaker 3: love Jerry, I just don't. I would put him probably
Speaker 3: a number four. I probably put Larry Fitzgi in front
Speaker 3: of Jay as well. Again, Jerry's got the rings and
Speaker 3: he's got the forty nine ers. That's the take because
Speaker 3: you had everything with you because and I'm not going
Speaker 3: to talk about the quarter the Hall of Fame quarterbacks
Speaker 3: that you had back to back with Tan and Steve Young,
Speaker 3: that's definitely a plus for any receiver. And you had
Speaker 3: a defense that was going out there having a three
Speaker 3: and out offense back on the field, three and out
Speaker 3: offense back on the field. You had so many unities
Speaker 3: to get those numbers and the longevity, of course I love.
Speaker 3: But then Fitz did with a good you know system,
Speaker 3: not on a good team, but his skill set alone
Speaker 3: I think is top notch. That to me has changed
Speaker 3: the NFL's receiver position again. I thought of the ninety
Speaker 3: eight change. In the first time with the big receiver.
Speaker 3: It was Chris was six three, Raindy was six six
Speaker 3: to three. Job was six to four, and we set
Speaker 3: every offensive record at here ever since that year, which
Speaker 3: I want to do it. I can about talk about
Speaker 3: this Jay the You've all seen big receivers right since
Speaker 3: the biggest came. Then now is what big corners? Because
Speaker 3: now the Packers remember the two years later they took
Speaker 3: two or three corners every single draft to fit up
Speaker 3: Randy Moss on the outside. And now as you see
Speaker 3: is six two sixty three corners, which has changed the game.
Speaker 3: And then the second change in the position was Fits
Speaker 3: on the way he was catching the ball because even Harder,
Speaker 3: who we all thought had the best hands ever, he
Speaker 3: would still catch. You know, do the body catch. Mass
Speaker 3: has great hands, still do the body catch. Fits would
Speaker 3: catch everything outside of his body frame right. He would
Speaker 3: reach out and attack the football with his hands, and
Speaker 3: of course that's what you see the receivers do, and
Speaker 3: that's how receivers are coached. Now, everybody always said, well,
Speaker 3: you are done to get to your body, but Jay
Speaker 3: Rice cut everything here, Chris Carter cut everything here. Yes,
Speaker 3: they could do this as well, but Larry would catch
Speaker 3: everything outside of his body frame.
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna point out that. Uh, I'm forty
Speaker 2: nine Ers fan, so I'm a little biased. So you
Speaker 2: already know who my number one.
Speaker 1: Receiver is.
Speaker 3: Already.
Speaker 2: Jerry had at forty starting back on Lebrea somewhere, and
Speaker 2: he still had a thousand yards and Joe Montana was
Speaker 2: not his quarterback.
Speaker 3: I'm yeah, okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: Runner ever ever, but.
Speaker 3: Rounder definitely. But when you're getting double team routes don't matter.
Speaker 3: We're gonna if you have a corner on me and
Speaker 3: a safety over the top, and you're gonna buzz out,
Speaker 3: will Sam he run a round? That's good enough for
Speaker 3: you to catch the ball. I just never see again,
Speaker 3: they never They didn't have those defenses back then, So
Speaker 3: you know, I get, I get, I know the difference obviously,
Speaker 3: but I mean Jerry was great. I think Jerry the
Speaker 3: longevity and the work ethic of what he's done was amazing. Obviously,
Speaker 3: when comes to one person to go against three, you're
Speaker 3: gonna pick Randy over Jerry and t O. Every single time.
Speaker 2: You sound like my husband because he often does that
Speaker 2: part of it. I think he's trolling me.
Speaker 3: But that's okay, you know, but that's okay.
Speaker 2: There's little you know, you know, kind of a wrong
Speaker 2: answer there, Like Randy Moss obviously one of the right
Speaker 2: to ever do it. Anybody picks him, it's not a
Speaker 2: wrong answer you picked, not a wrong answer or right
Speaker 2: well listen that definitely, thank you for giving me this time.
Speaker 2: You know you're a busy head football coach, so I
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Good luck with everything you do there. I
Speaker 2: have no doubt you will bring them a championships, uh
Speaker 2: escape championship. And of course you and I will definitely
Speaker 2: talk about any of the future projects that you might
Speaker 2: have thinking of up the Absolutely we'll have a conversation.
Speaker 3: You already know, say lest no, thanks for I appreciate
Speaker 3: the time, Mama.
Speaker 2: One more segment to go, and you guys know what
Speaker 2: that means. I got questions to answer up next. Your
Speaker 2: viewer slash listener questions and I have plenty of answers
Speaker 2: coming up next on the final segment of Spolatics.
Speaker 1: All right, time to wrap up.
Speaker 2: Things with a question from my politicians new nickname trying
Speaker 2: it Out. This question comes from David Speaker, known as
Speaker 2: d Speaker on Blue Sky. D Speaker asked, how would
Speaker 2: you feel about a politician running on this platform? Eliminating
Speaker 2: political parties, making it illegal for politicians to lie, making
Speaker 2: it illegal for media to lie, establishing an organization that
Speaker 2: only gives factual data to the public about bills and policies, etc.
Speaker 2: Having age term limits for all elected officials.
Speaker 1: I love it. That'd be great.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, there's fantasy and then there's the cold hard reality.
Speaker 2: Right now, our political systems are entirely too tied to money.
Speaker 2: We have a system where politicians can be bought by
Speaker 2: special interests and corporations. We have a system where the
Speaker 2: wealth of a politician explodes when they become a member
Speaker 2: of Congress. Case in point, Senator Rick Scott out of
Speaker 2: Florida is worth five hundred and forty one million.
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is worth three hundred million.
Speaker 2: The base salary for Senator, by the way, is one
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy four thousand a year, and it hasn't
Speaker 2: risen since two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1: And yet there are numerous members of Congress who have.
Speaker 2: A net worth well over one hundred million, much of
Speaker 2: which they gain while in office. When the people who
Speaker 2: are making the laws and control the purse strings have
Speaker 2: that much wealth, it is virtually impossible for them to
Speaker 2: ever operate in the best interests of the people. It happens,
Speaker 2: but it's an anonymaly as it stands. Members of Congress
Speaker 2: can trade stocks, and this is a glaring conflict of interest.
Speaker 2: I mean, when Kelly Leffler, with Senator in Georgia in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, she sold twenty million in stock after briefing
Speaker 2: on COVID. That happened a few weeks before we went
Speaker 2: into lockdown. Wonder what that was about. And she was
Speaker 2: hardly the only one anyway. My point is that politicians
Speaker 2: have every incentive to cheat, live and gain the system
Speaker 2: in their favor. To many of them have prioritized getting
Speaker 2: elected and staying in office rather than actual public service.
Speaker 2: Now you combine these financial motives with the apathy that
Speaker 2: permeates the voters, and what you get is the rotten
Speaker 2: political system that we have today, and the only way
Speaker 2: to change that system is that we have to make
Speaker 2: politicians pay for not.
Speaker 1: Serving the people.
Speaker 2: We can't check in and out every four years for
Speaker 2: the presidential race and ignore what's happening in our cities
Speaker 2: and communities. If we practice holding local politicians accountable and
Speaker 2: elect the leaders, that will trickle up and maybe one
Speaker 2: day we'll see the change we actually deserve.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your question, d speaker.
Speaker 2: Now, if you have a question for me, you can
Speaker 2: hit me up on social media or email. I'm at
Speaker 2: Jamail Hill. Across all social media platforms Twitter, Instagram, fan Base,
Speaker 2: Blue Sky, and threads, please use the hashtags politics. You
Speaker 2: also have the option of emailing me at Politics twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four at gmail dot com. You can also send
Speaker 2: me a video of your question, but please make sure
Speaker 2: it's thirty seconds or less.
Speaker 1: Send me a video. I don't know what happened y'all
Speaker 1: were sending them and then you stop.
Speaker 2: Anyway, don't forget to follow and subscribe to his politics
Speaker 2: on iHeart and follow spolitics pod on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 2: Politics is spelled s po l I tics. A new
Speaker 2: episode of Spolitics drops every Thursday on iHeart podcast or
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics, where sports
Speaker 2: and politics don't.
Speaker 1: Just mix, they matter.
Speaker 2: Politics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.
Speaker 2: I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne.
Speaker 2: Lucas Hymen is head of Audio and executive producer. Original
Speaker 2: music for Spolitics provided by Kyle Visz from wiz Fx.