Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. Hey everybody, how
Speaker 1: y'all doing? I am so glad to be speaking with
Speaker 1: y'all again. I've got a friend someone where we check
Speaker 1: in on each other. Honey is internationally known. He is
Speaker 1: so awesome. Great great friend, great host, great guy that
Speaker 1: just keeps us laughing. We were supposed to have this
Speaker 1: conversation a while ago. You'll find out why though in
Speaker 1: the episode. But I'm so glad that Kaylin Allen is
Speaker 1: stopping by. We're about to have fun. Y'all. Listen, y'all.
Speaker 1: I am excited. I have my buddy, someone who has
Speaker 1: wowed us, inspired us, encouraged us, and it's such a light.
Speaker 1: Some years ago, we saw him just doing videos at home,
Speaker 1: talking about pistachio marshmallow, seven layer taco salads that people
Speaker 1: would make, and he would deconstruct these videos and be like, now, ma'am,
Speaker 1: I don't look like a heart attack for it come
Speaker 1: to be on a toilet, and just like, his authenticity
Speaker 1: is what won the hearts of millions. Went on to
Speaker 1: work with and have his own show through Ellen DeGeneres,
Speaker 1: and is now transitioning and doing so many great things.
Speaker 1: He is someone's friend. He is someone's son to us.
Speaker 1: We love him. He is Kaylin Alan, Hey Michale, Hey Bo,
Speaker 1: how you do? How are you feeling? I am good?
Speaker 1: I am good. How are you, dear heart? I'm wonderful.
Speaker 1: You look wonderful. You look so sity. I love it, chat,
Speaker 1: It's just I put on some oil. Uh huh. Because
Speaker 1: Joe skin is always flawless, y'all. I'm like, does he
Speaker 1: get like micro deummer brasion and hydrofacials every day? Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I wish honey. It's genetics, baby, it's genetics. Now,
Speaker 1: we're not mad at that. We are not mad at that, y'all. Listen,
Speaker 1: I forgot to say, y'all. Klin is an artist, like,
Speaker 1: he's an all around artist, music actor. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us about the movie? Uh? Yeah, I get let me
Speaker 1: see where I cannot tea. So it's a Christmas movie.
Speaker 1: It's a Christmas movie, which is what I'm excited about
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm also finishing a Christmas album right now.
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be a very Kalin Christmas, very Kalin Christmas.
Speaker 1: I love it. Congratulations. Let me tell you something, and
Speaker 1: this is a nugget. If you can do Christmas movies,
Speaker 1: Christmas albums, anything for Christmas, that stuff like lives on
Speaker 1: forever because people are always looking for something to do holiday.
Speaker 1: So you are right in there. Okay, so listen, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you went viral a long time ago. Okay with your
Speaker 1: Kalin reacts food videos. All right, can you go into
Speaker 1: like what made you say I'm just gonna put this
Speaker 1: phone up here because people don't realize the power of
Speaker 1: the phone in your authenticity and how it can change
Speaker 1: your bank account. Well, you know what's funny about that
Speaker 1: is that so when this happened, this was in November
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, right, So this is really the decline of YouTube.
Speaker 1: You know, back in the day, YouTubers were like a
Speaker 1: huge thing. It was like that's what you dote. Well,
Speaker 1: the reason why I say that is because there wasn't
Speaker 1: as much emphasis on being a YouTube creator at this time.
Speaker 1: So like that wasn't a new thing that was coming up.
Speaker 1: Like the people that you would watch on YouTube have
Speaker 1: been doing it for years, you know, like the Jackie
Speaker 1: ian As, the Patrick Stars, these people had been doing
Speaker 1: YouTube for a very long time. So you weren't seeing
Speaker 1: like new money being put into YouTube. And this was
Speaker 1: also before TikTok existed, So I really came in at
Speaker 1: a sweet spot of because it was so funny. Now
Speaker 1: especially it's like when it comes to reaction videos, like
Speaker 1: a few of us did them at this time, but
Speaker 1: now because TikTok has really made it really accessible to
Speaker 1: be able to do like a split screen kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Now everybody in a mama does it, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And at that time, it was an accident.
Speaker 1: It was not something that I was planning on doing.
Speaker 1: You know. I was at school in Tippa University. I
Speaker 1: was getting my degrees in theater and film. The plan
Speaker 1: was that I was gonna move to New York and
Speaker 1: I was gonna try to be on Broadway and I
Speaker 1: was just gonna do that and that was gonna be it.
Speaker 1: And then that first semester of my senior year, is
Speaker 1: just had this feeling. I believe that I am divinely guided.
Speaker 1: That's what I told people all the time, And there
Speaker 1: was a feeling that told me to make that first
Speaker 1: video and then I did it and I posted it.
Speaker 1: Next thing, I knew that woman had gone viral and
Speaker 1: then a month later I was going to feel my
Speaker 1: first episode of Ellen. And then in January twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: I moved to Los Angeles. It all happened at three months.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, have you heard Tabitha Brown story? Yes,
Speaker 1: kind of the same thing where she said she heard
Speaker 1: a voice say, get your phone, use your phone, and
Speaker 1: to see what you two have done, just by the
Speaker 1: power of making good use out of the phone, bringing
Speaker 1: joy to people's hearts. Because people use their phones for evil.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it, but y'all, you use your
Speaker 1: phone to make us did you know you were you
Speaker 1: trying to make us laugh? No? And you know what's
Speaker 1: so funny about that? And I tell people to all
Speaker 1: times that I'm not a comedian, and it's like, I
Speaker 1: just know I'm a comedic entertainer. I know comedy. I
Speaker 1: just know what's funny. And it's really a lot of
Speaker 1: times it's just how I talk. It's just how I
Speaker 1: expressed myself. It's just who I am, you know. So
Speaker 1: it's just like I don't see it as I'm sitting down,
Speaker 1: like writing down a joke or something like that. It's
Speaker 1: just like every now, And to be honest, even the
Speaker 1: way that I make content. Now it's all off a feeling.
Speaker 1: I don't believe in making content just to say that
Speaker 1: I've made some content or whatever. I have to feel it. So,
Speaker 1: for instance, like the other day, was at the grocery
Speaker 1: store and these two boys call me sir, and so
Speaker 1: that it's something that my spirit was like, this would
Speaker 1: be a funny video. So I went home. I was like,
Speaker 1: I already know what I want to say, I know
Speaker 1: how I want to say. I'm a pressure record and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk to this phone for a minute at
Speaker 1: thirty seconds, you know what I mean? And I think
Speaker 1: And what I realized after that video is that I
Speaker 1: think because because it is so natural to me, I
Speaker 1: think it becomes so believable that people think that I
Speaker 1: actually really care about it, if that makes sense of
Speaker 1: being like and I'm like, I don't really care that
Speaker 1: these boys call me sir. Like that's not that's not
Speaker 1: keeping me up at night, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But it's like it's a part of the comedy. It's
Speaker 1: a part of the hysteria of it all. It's a performance.
Speaker 1: I love it. I have those moments and where I
Speaker 1: should press record, but then I'm self conscious, like, well,
Speaker 1: you don't have on a makeup, I gotta do this,
Speaker 1: you gotta do that, don't be coming on looking busted.
Speaker 1: So a lot of my thoughts just stay thoughts. But
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to do some more natural moments of
Speaker 1: you know, spontaneous filming. Now, where do you feel like
Speaker 1: that self consciousness comes from? Where does it stem from? Um?
Speaker 1: So this could you interviewing me? I can't help it.
Speaker 1: I can't. Okay, I know where it comes from. It
Speaker 1: comes from always being known or seen as glamor hair
Speaker 1: and makeup always done, and it's like I should at
Speaker 1: least have on some lipstick. Okay. I'm not saying one
Speaker 1: that comes on natural with no makeup done or no
Speaker 1: hair done. I'm not saying that they're wrong, but it's
Speaker 1: just like if I don't, will it be like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's she going through today? Okay, I don't know, but
Speaker 1: that's me overthinking assuming what people are thinking, and they're
Speaker 1: probably not. They probably don't care. Well I would. I
Speaker 1: would say that the flip is. I think it's also
Speaker 1: the fact of like you being in the industry at
Speaker 1: a time before social media, but at the level that
Speaker 1: you were doing it as well. I can understand why
Speaker 1: you would have that perspective, and I think the industry
Speaker 1: has changed so much in today's day and age, is
Speaker 1: that it's two different times, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So I don't think it has anything to do with
Speaker 1: you overthinking at all. I think it's you thinking in
Speaker 1: what you're used to and what are you to be?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, which that I can understand.
Speaker 1: And this has been your ask doctor Kaylin. Thank you
Speaker 1: though you are so right, You're spot on. That's why
Speaker 1: I was sitting in the spirit of hush because I
Speaker 1: was like, Kaylyn is actually his spot on. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just try to add prospective to stuff. You know.
Speaker 1: I think I'm very especially so. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've even told you this before. Is that I
Speaker 1: plan on when this is, you know, when I decide
Speaker 1: I want to retire and I want to like, you know,
Speaker 1: sit down or somewhere, I plan to become a therapist too,
Speaker 1: specifically to people that work in the industry, because in
Speaker 1: my experience and going to therapy, therapists could only understand
Speaker 1: the everyday stuff, but when it came to industry stuff,
Speaker 1: they had no idea of how to help me and
Speaker 1: a lot of especially earlier that was a lot of
Speaker 1: my issues were rooted in navigating the industry, and it
Speaker 1: was just like, well, who am I ls to talk to?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? So I want to be
Speaker 1: able to be that resource to people. So you think
Speaker 1: we should go to school together and open up a brack,
Speaker 1: Come on, let's go, we should let's go. I like that.
Speaker 1: I like that. Okay, I'll let you get back to
Speaker 1: the interview with no, no, we no, because it's gonna
Speaker 1: flow and a half eighty percent of what we're talking
Speaker 1: about ain't even you're right about it. So you did
Speaker 1: a reaction video? Now wait a minute. Were people that
Speaker 1: you did reaction videos too? Did they actually get offended? Some?
Speaker 1: Some at first? But it was never like a big thing. Um,
Speaker 1: But I do remember I think there was at some
Speaker 1: point when the videos would be, you know, featured on
Speaker 1: on Kalen or on Ellen, that people would be like, well,
Speaker 1: we need to cut, you know, like because it's like
Speaker 1: we're technically a cut of the ad revenue. You know. No, no,
Speaker 1: you don't need what your cook needed to be cut? Okay,
Speaker 1: exactly exactly exactly. It cut the video, but the funny
Speaker 1: thing about that is that technically it's a parody, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's like a commentary or whatever. But you know,
Speaker 1: when you when you're dealing with something that was getting
Speaker 1: that many views. I think once I left ellen on
Speaker 1: Kaalen itself had already done over a billion views in itself.
Speaker 1: So it's like when you have stuff of that magnitude,
Speaker 1: of course people want to you know, cash in or
Speaker 1: get a cut oft to check or whatever. I didn't
Speaker 1: really care about that because I don't that's not why
Speaker 1: I make stuff. But yeah, no, I think what was
Speaker 1: also crazy about it was just that then, and this
Speaker 1: is why I stopped doing them, was because I noticed
Speaker 1: that people were just making videos too. That was just nasty.
Speaker 1: And I think for me, everything is about authenticity, you know,
Speaker 1: And so I was like I was watching video and
Speaker 1: I'd be like that's not real, you know, and me
Speaker 1: talking about like how I'm not a comedian. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not about to sit here and just write a
Speaker 1: couple of jokes to try and make this funny, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like I don't ever want
Speaker 1: to be a character or for it to feel inauthentic.
Speaker 1: So I was just like, so I just want to
Speaker 1: do with it that much. I'll just find something else
Speaker 1: to do, you know what I mean. I'm still stuck
Speaker 1: on because we saw the videos and then wow, I'm
Speaker 1: just tripping. Like you said, it was only three months
Speaker 1: later that Ellen Degenerous calls you and then you literally
Speaker 1: Saunter and Sachet and strut out on that show and
Speaker 1: you sit down and you cross your legs and you're
Speaker 1: sitting with Ellen Degenerous. This is what twenty s eighteen.
Speaker 1: So I take the first episode December of twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: and so what was that like? You get the phone
Speaker 1: call to go out there. Well, it was a whirlwind.
Speaker 1: Kansas born very much, so very much. So it was
Speaker 1: a whirlwind, you know. So my first idea was that
Speaker 1: I was going to show up. It was gonna give
Speaker 1: me a cute little shutterfly check and I was gonna
Speaker 1: go buy my business. Like that's what I thought it
Speaker 1: was gonna be. And then I wasn't expecting to be
Speaker 1: offered at the job. And so when I was offer
Speaker 1: at the job, I said yes. On the show. I
Speaker 1: remember I left there. I was staying at the Hilton
Speaker 1: and Universal City Hunt, so I was at the Hilton,
Speaker 1: and I remember the next day. I think my flight
Speaker 1: may have been in the evening or something. I was like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get up and go to Universal Studios. I
Speaker 1: ain't never been, you know, I'm gonna go buy myself.
Speaker 1: I gonna have fun and I'm mean right out to university.
Speaker 1: And I called at that time my acting teacher at Temple.
Speaker 1: I said, this is the deal. I was offered a job.
Speaker 1: I need to move to LA. The original contract did
Speaker 1: not say I needed to move to LA, but I
Speaker 1: knew that if I moved to LA, then I would
Speaker 1: be used more. They would use me more because I
Speaker 1: was there. I was more convenient, they didn't have to
Speaker 1: pay for travel and stuff like that. And so I
Speaker 1: was like, we need to figure out how I can
Speaker 1: finish my degrees in LA, and with this move needs
Speaker 1: to happen asap. So I flew back to Temple, packed
Speaker 1: up all my stuff. We figured it out. I did
Speaker 1: class at night while I was at Ellen, and then
Speaker 1: I moved to Los Angeles. But I will say that
Speaker 1: it was very scary at first, and to be honest,
Speaker 1: it's probably one of my most depressive moments of my life.
Speaker 1: And the reason is is because I was thrown into
Speaker 1: something with little to no guidance as to far as
Speaker 1: how it operated and how it worked, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Also, and when I got the job, I
Speaker 1: was working five jobs in college like I was used to,
Speaker 1: you know, working, working, working BBB, And now my only
Speaker 1: job is the Ellen Degenerous Show. But this is before
Speaker 1: on Kalen. This is before regular appearances. So it's just
Speaker 1: like every down and then so I'm just sitting in
Speaker 1: the apartment like I'm just sitting in my apartment watching
Speaker 1: TV all day. It was driving me insane. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm so bored. I was in like a furnished apartment,
Speaker 1: so it really wasn't mine. So the apartment was just
Speaker 1: like there and it was dark. There wasn't a lot
Speaker 1: of sunlight. I was like, I can't do this. This
Speaker 1: is sad. I don't like it. So then that was
Speaker 1: when I asked for an office at Warner Brothers, because
Speaker 1: I was like, give me, give me purpose, give me
Speaker 1: somewhere I can go, you know. And I think that
Speaker 1: that was really why then everything else started to happen.
Speaker 1: Was because I was very hands on and you know me,
Speaker 1: I'm a very vocal person. I am very like all
Speaker 1: toesy and you know what I mean. So that's just
Speaker 1: who I am. I could be wrong, but I'm wondering
Speaker 1: when you asked for an office, did that send a
Speaker 1: positive signal to them, like, Oh, he want to come
Speaker 1: in and work, he wants to be visible, versus someone
Speaker 1: else that might have been lazy, Right, Mike would just
Speaker 1: sit at home and be like, oh, I would just
Speaker 1: wait for them to call me. I'll just but you
Speaker 1: didn't have to. But you chose to go up there,
Speaker 1: maybe even when you weren't called, but just to be
Speaker 1: in the environment, being the atmosphere to stay upbeat. Is
Speaker 1: that what am I hearing? You're right? Well, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and I think you know, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: my career is I can honestly they say, I know,
Speaker 1: fool wholeheartedly. I am a boss and that is how
Speaker 1: I run my life. You know what I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of the opportunities that come to me is because
Speaker 1: I worked to make them happen. I made the connections,
Speaker 1: I built the relationships, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: and that's important to me because especially for me being
Speaker 1: from Kansas, it was like when people would ask like well,
Speaker 1: who do you look up to? Who do you want
Speaker 1: to be when you grow up? Or something like that.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't there's nothing there. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of who I am is made from the
Speaker 1: lack thereof, especially being like a black queer person, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So it's just like I have
Speaker 1: to I have to work this hard. I have to
Speaker 1: do all this to be representation in visibility purposes, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Yes, And I know you've been
Speaker 1: very vocal about not only what comes with being black,
Speaker 1: but black and queer, and maybe the struggles or the
Speaker 1: limitations were they're any put on you even before, Ellen, Oh,
Speaker 1: even if they were before, I don't think I noticed
Speaker 1: it to the magnitude that I do now. And I
Speaker 1: would say that I even I even experienced social limitations
Speaker 1: still to this day, you know what I mean. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of times, but now. Yeah. And the
Speaker 1: reason why I say that, it's because I think I
Speaker 1: think the the fulfillment was different, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I think prior to especially during theater, it was just
Speaker 1: like that's kind of where you know, we all lived,
Speaker 1: you know, that's where all the queer people went. They
Speaker 1: went to the theater. So it was just like right,
Speaker 1: so it was like this was safe. But now, and
Speaker 1: I tell people all the time, it's like when it
Speaker 1: comes to my career, the frustrating thing apart about it
Speaker 1: is that I know that a lot of times it's
Speaker 1: something doesn't sustain or something as a failure, or say
Speaker 1: I do a show and it only has one season.
Speaker 1: It's like it would be different if I could know
Speaker 1: that that was because of my ability and I just
Speaker 1: need to practice some more or learn some more. I said.
Speaker 1: But it is frustrating when you know that a lot
Speaker 1: of the rejection of who I am is because of
Speaker 1: bigotry or because someone doesn't want my black body on there,
Speaker 1: or they don't want my queer body in that space,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so it's like because
Speaker 1: at that point you're like I'm hitting the wall, Like
Speaker 1: it's like I don't know how to be anybody but myself.
Speaker 1: So it's like what more do you want from me,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Or finding where you fit
Speaker 1: into the puzzle, you know what I mean. And I
Speaker 1: think that's also why I gravitate I you know, even
Speaker 1: when it comes to like Ellen or like you, I
Speaker 1: think I gravitate to building relationships, and I care more
Speaker 1: about creating relationships with people that have meant something to
Speaker 1: me in my growing up or the people that influenced me,
Speaker 1: or that you know, meant something Like I remember being
Speaker 1: in middle school and like being in my Grandma's christ
Speaker 1: their three hundred and on the sixth disc change, it
Speaker 1: was destiny fulfilled, you know what I mean. So it's like,
Speaker 1: but having those full circle moments of thinking about the
Speaker 1: things that made me who I am, it helps to
Speaker 1: resent to me to know that I have a purpose,
Speaker 1: and especially now looking at the relationships that I have
Speaker 1: for so many people that, yeah, at one point, what
Speaker 1: I would have never imagined is to me is reassurance
Speaker 1: that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, even
Speaker 1: when it comes to like meeting Oprah and talking to
Speaker 1: Oprah and then like having conversations with like Michelle Obama.
Speaker 1: You know, I remember being at that place where you're
Speaker 1: seeing people in textbooks or you're seeing people on MTVVH
Speaker 1: one or entertainment Tonight, and then before you know it,
Speaker 1: some years passed by and you're brushing elbows and you're
Speaker 1: being on the red carpet. You said, something that I
Speaker 1: would have never thought. But I understand when you first
Speaker 1: got call you were excited, but then you said it
Speaker 1: was one of the most depressing moments because you were
Speaker 1: kind of thrust in there with no guidance. Right, How
Speaker 1: has it been for you now? Because me and you
Speaker 1: have briefly we've been talking about transition and what it's like,
Speaker 1: how people and rebranding, reinventing yourself because people know you now.
Speaker 1: For one thing, how has that been? Ellen Degenerous y'all
Speaker 1: did y'all's last season last year and we were talking
Speaker 1: about transition. How has that been for you? Well, you
Speaker 1: know what's so funny about that? It's one thing I
Speaker 1: had to realize. And I think it also had a
Speaker 1: lot to do with the fact that I started while
Speaker 1: I was still in college. I think I was still
Speaker 1: operating as in the mindset of a child, to where
Speaker 1: everything is laid out for me, and that you know,
Speaker 1: people are telling me where to go, what to do,
Speaker 1: this is the time you go to class and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. And I think at some point I realized
Speaker 1: that I needed to start transitioning to thinking like an
Speaker 1: adult and to find that peace in the transitions. So
Speaker 1: I think one of the best transitions that I made
Speaker 1: was moving to New York, because that was always the dream.
Speaker 1: That's always where I wanted to be. And I hated
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, you know what I mean. And so I
Speaker 1: was like, Los Angeles, I've always hated Los Angeles. I
Speaker 1: just Michelle Michelle out when we saw each other at
Speaker 1: the World bar Ar Galla. Do you know I had
Speaker 1: only been in LA for like ten hours. I flew
Speaker 1: in just for the gala, and I left me too.
Speaker 1: I was there less than twenty four hours. Listen here,
Speaker 1: and I said, I literally when I was talking to Trail,
Speaker 1: I was like, what time is the gala over? And
Speaker 1: he was like it was supposed to in round tenth thirty.
Speaker 1: We know, it was a little bit longer than that.
Speaker 1: And so then I was like, okay, with my flight
Speaker 1: gonna be at midnight. And then because we both left
Speaker 1: together and we both went to the airport, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm out of here. When I go to LA,
Speaker 1: I want to be in and out. Okay, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: I did not know that, yes, honey, And so I
Speaker 1: was like, I gotta get out of here. And so
Speaker 1: then and the reason why it's like you know this.
Speaker 1: Los Angeles is very industry heavy. Everybody there practically works
Speaker 1: in the industry or guy has some connection to it
Speaker 1: and a lot of who I am, especially when it
Speaker 1: comes to the art that I make and my comedic.
Speaker 1: You know, spirit about me is derived from the everyday person.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, this is not in everyday life.
Speaker 1: We live the same day every single day. I need seasons.
Speaker 1: I want Christmas to feel like Christmas. I want Halloween
Speaker 1: to feel like Halloween. Like that's what I need. I
Speaker 1: need some normalcy. And I was like, yeah, I'm out
Speaker 1: of here. I'm out of here. But I mean the
Speaker 1: version of who I am here is like night and
Speaker 1: day to who I was in LA. Are you happier? Oh?
Speaker 1: I love it? I love it. I see things crystal
Speaker 1: clear every day. I'm just up and ready to go.
Speaker 1: I love it. It's just like you moved to I did,
Speaker 1: but I moved to Atlanta, Georgia. Everybody you know seems
Speaker 1: to find their way down here. Life brought me here
Speaker 1: and it's been good for me. Now alaa New York
Speaker 1: I would want to live. I'm the Hampton's Girl. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: I think I don't know now I don't know if
Speaker 1: I want to you do. Come on, I see for
Speaker 1: me to feel for you. Come on, let's continue to
Speaker 1: see it for each other. Yea la maybe on the
Speaker 1: outskirts somewhere, you know the Santa Barbara ye it Cino.
Speaker 1: Sherman Oaks is getting to live well, you used to
Speaker 1: live in Sherman Oaks. You used to live in Sherman Oaks.
Speaker 1: And I've heard it, as Cha Yang, I believe that.
Speaker 1: I think people are starting to move out a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it has changed a lot. Now. You did talk about
Speaker 1: relationships prior, and just so y'all know, Kaitlin and I
Speaker 1: were supposed to do this interview a couple months ago.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, all right, but due to the loss of
Speaker 1: his very close friend Twitch, we had to postpone it.
Speaker 1: And you talked about going to La doing Ellen not
Speaker 1: having guidance. How did the relationship with you and Twitch happened?
Speaker 1: And do you think if it wasn't for your relationship
Speaker 1: with him, you were like, I probably would have just
Speaker 1: commuted back and forth here. Oh, you know, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: You know so funny about that. It's like that was
Speaker 1: such a shock to me and it affected me in
Speaker 1: ways that I didn't even know it was going to
Speaker 1: affect me. It affected the way that I the way
Speaker 1: that I approached my work, the way I approached my life,
Speaker 1: what I thought about what I need to do from
Speaker 1: here on out, you know. And I think what was
Speaker 1: great about having Twitch as far as like us practically
Speaker 1: being like the only black like you know, talent on
Speaker 1: the show, is that we were able to support each
Speaker 1: other in ways that we couldn't have gotten that from
Speaker 1: anybody else, just off a race itself, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And I think you know, Bro, you know exactly,
Speaker 1: but just being able to have and I think also
Speaker 1: as two people that were figuring out the industry and
Speaker 1: figuring out what was next, you know, and doing that together,
Speaker 1: especially because you know, he had been at the show
Speaker 1: for so long, right and I was new, Like I
Speaker 1: was there for five years and he was there for fifteen,
Speaker 1: you know, and so even with me being able to
Speaker 1: help and tell him, like what the industry is like now,
Speaker 1: because you know, when you have that safety net of
Speaker 1: a show for that long, it's hard to understand. I mean,
Speaker 1: you could probably understand that of being like in a
Speaker 1: group for so long and now it's over and then
Speaker 1: you throw him to the wolf rules. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: you got to figure it out, you know, and then
Speaker 1: it's like you don't know what to do because you've
Speaker 1: had this safety net for so long. And then you
Speaker 1: have to deal now you have to figure out how
Speaker 1: to stand out on your own and make a name
Speaker 1: for yourself while you got a whole bunch of people
Speaker 1: trying to tell you who you should be or what
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do. You know what I mean, we
Speaker 1: have lived these same transition. I want you to know
Speaker 1: that I see you, and I know the hard work
Speaker 1: that you are doing. I know you're happier now, you know,
Speaker 1: because you are in New York, But you had some
Speaker 1: compounded grief. You have more than one type of grief, okay,
Speaker 1: grieving the loss of community relationships that were built on
Speaker 1: the show, and then the actual loss of a life.
Speaker 1: You know, to someone, can you break down your journey
Speaker 1: your grief journey for someone that's listening checking in is
Speaker 1: definitely based in mental health, but we try not to
Speaker 1: be so heavy with it, but maybe share, you know,
Speaker 1: your grief journey with us. Yeah, So I think I
Speaker 1: felt I felt all of it. Um At first I
Speaker 1: was in shock, then probably about a couple of days,
Speaker 1: and I became really really sad about it, to where
Speaker 1: it's all I thought about all day long, every single day,
Speaker 1: and it would just replay in my mind over and
Speaker 1: over and over again. And then I became angry. Then
Speaker 1: I got mad, you know. But those are the steps
Speaker 1: of grief, right right then. I then I became very
Speaker 1: angry about a lot of things. And then afterwards, after
Speaker 1: the anger part, I think I got a little bit
Speaker 1: more insightful, you know, And I think I started to
Speaker 1: have more direct conversations with him about it all about
Speaker 1: what was next, what needed to happen next, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, and what I could say even I
Speaker 1: felt this. A couple of weeks ago, I was in
Speaker 1: Miami for South Beach Food and Wine Festival, but right before,
Speaker 1: I was very very frustrated, you know, and I was
Speaker 1: very frustrated with the industry, with Hollywood. I was at
Speaker 1: a point where I was like, you know what, Kaitlin,
Speaker 1: maybe you should just go get a nine to five,
Speaker 1: because I'm tired of this, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And so I was in this battle and I was
Speaker 1: talking to somebody about it, and I said, you know what,
Speaker 1: it probably actually has a lot more to do with
Speaker 1: Twitch that I feeled this anger. And I said, because
Speaker 1: a lot of the conversations that me and Twitch were
Speaker 1: always surrounded about careers, you know, and making sure that
Speaker 1: the world outside of these safety nets finds value in
Speaker 1: us and worth in us, and you know, and that
Speaker 1: we can actually do this on our own. And you know,
Speaker 1: even when I wrote in my thing, because all the
Speaker 1: headlines were talking about like Ellen's sidekicking stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, this man has a name,
Speaker 1: you know, And so I wrote it in my post
Speaker 1: like he was no one's sidekick, you know. I was
Speaker 1: like he was the glue, he kept it together, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And so and so I think
Speaker 1: I became in a moment of maybe even more so,
Speaker 1: I was in a fighter mode. I was, It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make these dreams and aspirations come true, even
Speaker 1: if I have to do it myself, because I'm tired
Speaker 1: of sitting at these tables begging and pleading for somebody
Speaker 1: to see my worth when the analytics are already there,
Speaker 1: when the proof is already in the pudding. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna keep trying to beg you to give me an opportunity.
Speaker 1: If you won't do it, then I'll just do it myself.
Speaker 1: Because it was the power of you were you kind
Speaker 1: of were starting doing it yourself and some I mean
Speaker 1: with a Tyler Perry saying it ain't nobody going to
Speaker 1: invite you to the table, make your own table. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: And you are so capable of doing all of that,
Speaker 1: and with that being said, capable of so many things.
Speaker 1: How in the world, by the way, thank you for
Speaker 1: sharing with us your journey, Yes right, the highs the lows,
Speaker 1: because people think, oh my goss, you you're in LA,
Speaker 1: You're driving this fancy card, you have this, you're on
Speaker 1: l you're doing this. You got it. Oh I'm paying.
Speaker 1: You got YouTube, you got food Network, you got this
Speaker 1: and that. But it takes some true strength, some grounding
Speaker 1: because people don't realize what you do go through to maintain.
Speaker 1: So thank you for keeping it all the way real
Speaker 1: and sharing with us a part of your grief journey
Speaker 1: of course, and um fast forward to everything that you're
Speaker 1: capable of. How are you on the East Coast NYU
Speaker 1: and Juilliard? Yeah, those those aren't easy program schools to
Speaker 1: get into. What made you say I'm I'm headed. I'm
Speaker 1: headed to New York. I'm going to NYU and Julie, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I knew that I wanted to have a
Speaker 1: talk show one day, and everything that I do, it
Speaker 1: is important that I know the ins and out so
Speaker 1: that I come with the tools and what I need
Speaker 1: to be able to do it to the best of
Speaker 1: my ability. And so I was like, I was, this
Speaker 1: is another thing. I'm telling you, All these things just
Speaker 1: come to me. I was scrolling through Facebook one day
Speaker 1: and I saw an ad for an online master's program
Speaker 1: at NYU, and something told me apply, and so I
Speaker 1: click the link. I applied to the school. That happened.
Speaker 1: The same thing happened with Juliard. I. So the week
Speaker 1: I've moved to Los Angeles, I had a Juilliard grad
Speaker 1: School audition for acting and I canceled it because of
Speaker 1: course I was moving to La So so I was
Speaker 1: here and I was just like one day I was
Speaker 1: in the bed, I was watching TV and I said
Speaker 1: something in my spirit, said Kaylin, going to Juilliard's website
Speaker 1: right now. I go to Julliard's website. I see that
Speaker 1: they have a Juilliard Extension program, which basically allows people
Speaker 1: to be able to train It's Juilliard without having to
Speaker 1: do the full degree program. So I so some says,
Speaker 1: just apply, and I did, and then that's how both
Speaker 1: of those things happened. Come on, all right, because this
Speaker 1: is mirroring one of my aspirations and dreams to do.
Speaker 1: Did you have people to tell you you don't need
Speaker 1: to go to school? Yeah? But I mean nobody can
Speaker 1: really tell me what to do because it almost came
Speaker 1: out of my mouth, because I mean, you have the
Speaker 1: natural gift to talk correct, right, which is also why
Speaker 1: I think the program is really easy for me. It's
Speaker 1: because a lot of stuff I just already know how
Speaker 1: to do. But and I knew people were gonna say that,
Speaker 1: you know. Deray McKesson said the same to me. He
Speaker 1: was like, why are you going to school? You don't
Speaker 1: need to go to school, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And this is another reason why I said, and this
Speaker 1: really is where the race and the identity comes into
Speaker 1: it as well. I said, because especially the fact that
Speaker 1: I'm I'm classified as a digital creator. I said, I
Speaker 1: don't want anyone to say that I didn't earn my spot.
Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to be able to say that.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna have this paper and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna also have the knowledge and the tools to be
Speaker 1: able to like, well, here it is, I hear it, now,
Speaker 1: I hear you there. But the reason why I'm kind
Speaker 1: of like, uh uh huh huh. Sometimes favor, Amen, let
Speaker 1: you do things a man at an accelerated pace. Correct
Speaker 1: that it does that, it does, it gets you to
Speaker 1: the front of the line. Amen. Favor is not understood
Speaker 1: and it does not look fair, which and I can admit,
Speaker 1: I can admit, And this wasn't really until I was
Speaker 1: in industry that I started to somewhat care more about
Speaker 1: what people thought or what they said. You know, it's
Speaker 1: kind of inevitable. It's kind of ineviable, especially when you
Speaker 1: I think this is what another thing that people don't understand.
Speaker 1: It's like when you are getting so much feed back
Speaker 1: and criticism at mass amounts, like we're talking thousands of
Speaker 1: people being able to have an opinion on you. I
Speaker 1: think people just think that it's just like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I wrote this comment and it's one comment, but you're
Speaker 1: not realizing I'm getting thousands of stuff, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And it's like I can This was more
Speaker 1: so early in my career. It was like you could
Speaker 1: have fifty million good comments and then you see that
Speaker 1: one bad one. You see that one bad one, and
Speaker 1: for some reason, you your mind tells you that's the
Speaker 1: one that's real, that's the true one. Like people can
Speaker 1: say I love you blah blah blah blah fifty million
Speaker 1: times and you'd be like, oh, thank you, I love
Speaker 1: you so much. Somebody got something smart to say or
Speaker 1: mean to say, and you like, hold on, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. I got questions for you too,
Speaker 1: but I want you to keep yours. No, you fine,
Speaker 1: you fine, you fine, come on, ask me some questions. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I was, you know, I keep up with
Speaker 1: you on an everyday basis, and so no, no, no,
Speaker 1: So like I see, you know, interviews and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And one thing that I remember, especially now even still
Speaker 1: to this day, when you are connected to an entity
Speaker 1: already and people always ask you questions about everybody else's business.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Does that get on your nerves?
Speaker 1: Because it gets on mine. It does. And that's why
Speaker 1: I was even careful to ask you about twitch. Right,
Speaker 1: it's different, I know, but it's like, no, be interested
Speaker 1: in my life. You know, people you know it's be
Speaker 1: honestly gonna have another baby. It's Kelly gonna have another baby?
Speaker 1: Are you gonna have a baby? Well what it was
Speaker 1: it like to what's blue light? Well? What I like?
Speaker 1: Y'all all right? Like what? But it took me a
Speaker 1: year to accept people's natural curiosity and interest. Right, But
Speaker 1: as far as when I'm doing interviews, I'm coming like,
Speaker 1: respect me enough to at least make the first half
Speaker 1: of the interview about me. And if you want to
Speaker 1: slide in the question that I get every day or
Speaker 1: Destiny's child ever reunited, I get it, but like respect
Speaker 1: me about what I'm here to promote, but don't be
Speaker 1: trying to slide in shade or questions. So unfortunately it
Speaker 1: comes with it, but they should know better. They should
Speaker 1: know better. And that's why I think, you know, with
Speaker 1: me wanting to do a talk show one day or
Speaker 1: even having checking in, I feel I'm a safe person
Speaker 1: to have people on as a guest because I will
Speaker 1: never be intrusive, you know, and or disrespectful or ask
Speaker 1: questions or make you feel like I've promoted albums and
Speaker 1: the radio station you don't play my music. But because
Speaker 1: I'm a part of Destiny's Child, right, that got me
Speaker 1: through the door. Right. And I would ask the radio
Speaker 1: promo people at my label like are they even playing
Speaker 1: my record? Well? Why am I going up there? Because
Speaker 1: they know it is a way to talk about other
Speaker 1: people in my project. It's so funny that she said
Speaker 1: that because even when I was talking about like, you know,
Speaker 1: the people I met, and you slid into Beyonce thing.
Speaker 1: And I think for me, because I know how excited
Speaker 1: you are. You've been so publicly vocal about meeting her,
Speaker 1: and I person was so happy when you did. Yes,
Speaker 1: But I think it's also it's like, also, have you
Speaker 1: watched Swarm Swarm not yet? I have not. It's crazy
Speaker 1: is it about they say, she the young lady that
Speaker 1: starts in it. They say it is not about Beyonce
Speaker 1: or to be high. Oh, it absolutely is. Episode six.
Speaker 1: It's like Blaton. It's like, oh, yes, okay, but so
Speaker 1: but it's so complicated. But I think for me, I
Speaker 1: am very protective of it um And the reason why
Speaker 1: I say that is because so I remember when I
Speaker 1: guess hosted Ellen and I interview Kelly, and I remember
Speaker 1: reading a lot of the trivia questions beforehand and me
Speaker 1: being like, no, we are not asking that, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And it was almost had to be
Speaker 1: a compromise because they always people just they're in they
Speaker 1: want to know. They feel like that's their only way
Speaker 1: in interviews. They would have to ask us because they
Speaker 1: could just refer to her exactly, but maybe they're like, well,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna get it out of her, so maybe
Speaker 1: we gotta get it out of other people, right exactly.
Speaker 1: That's the whole thing. But it's even like, for instance,
Speaker 1: like like the Beyonce thing, like me meeting her at
Speaker 1: web Bro and we walked out together, right, Like I
Speaker 1: didn't walk up to you and were walking out and
Speaker 1: being like, girl, guess who I finally met? You know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Because it's not necessary. And I also
Speaker 1: believes that two worlds can exist, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like like you can have you can admire somebody and
Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to be always about them, just
Speaker 1: because you know other people connected to them, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And it's just like why can't it
Speaker 1: just exist as two separate things? Being like yes, this
Speaker 1: is the relationship I have with this person. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: know this person. But I was never in the point
Speaker 1: of being like, Michelle, can you tell me be ansked
Speaker 1: to call me? Can you can you tell to send
Speaker 1: me so far as like, because that's unnecessary. It's unnecessary,
Speaker 1: and I think it's as well as me living and
Speaker 1: working in the industry. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: people just want to feel like human beings and people
Speaker 1: want to be respected as such, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I think that's another reason why I had to
Speaker 1: leave La, because everybody just cared too much about the mess,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, or the stuff that didn't matter.
Speaker 1: It was just like, let's just connect to turn it off,
Speaker 1: right or to have balance, right, you know. And so
Speaker 1: the reason why I'm glad that I don't live in
Speaker 1: LA anymore because it gave me so much anxiety. I
Speaker 1: always felt like, well, I'm here, I better take a meeting.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, let him know, let me you know, like
Speaker 1: you said, you're almost selling yourself for for opportunities. But
Speaker 1: I'm so thankful since I've been in Georgia, like so
Speaker 1: much has come my way without having to have all
Speaker 1: of these eighty thousand meetings, right, you know. Girls. So
Speaker 1: crazy about that is that I found that same experience
Speaker 1: moving to New York. And I think it's also because,
Speaker 1: like you know, everybody that does what I do essentially
Speaker 1: with live in Los Angeles, right, because I was like
Speaker 1: the rare diamond and the rough out here to where
Speaker 1: I was doing it at the magnitude that I've been
Speaker 1: doing it. Then I became an asset. Butchell, the other day,
Speaker 1: I was going through me and my assistant, We're going
Speaker 1: through the emails and it was like an invite to
Speaker 1: a movie premiere, and I was like, why am I
Speaker 1: invited to this? Like do y'all like who is sitting
Speaker 1: at the list? Like, yeah, Kalin would like this, you
Speaker 1: know what. It would be the most random stuff. But
Speaker 1: it's like, and I love that people find that I
Speaker 1: bring that value to it and stuff like that. I
Speaker 1: really do enjoy that. And it's just like you said,
Speaker 1: I think I learned that the way that I got
Speaker 1: into it was just the gateway, you know. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was just the door to be able to do everything
Speaker 1: else that I wanted to do. Yes, there's so much more.
Speaker 1: You're not in a box, right, you know, you have
Speaker 1: many many many lanes to feel and don't let anybody
Speaker 1: make you feel like you have to stay in one.
Speaker 1: But you're showing us that you don't because you've got
Speaker 1: you You were a judge or you're a judge on
Speaker 1: a cooking show off. Yeah, yeah, I was a judge
Speaker 1: on Holiday Banking Championship, Gingerbread Showdown. Yeah, Okay, Are you
Speaker 1: gonna do anything more in that space? Please? Oh? Yes, absolutely?
Speaker 1: You know I think that's like my bread and butter.
Speaker 1: You know, I think I am a judge on which
Speaker 1: we feel months ago, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: it's like it's like I don't have any plans of
Speaker 1: stopping or like I just love doing any and everything.
Speaker 1: I love to be able to just be well round
Speaker 1: it and conquer it all. You know. I know I
Speaker 1: want to do Broadway. I know I want to do
Speaker 1: all that. I'm so excited about that red carpet. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna. I'm putting in my bed from my invitation
Speaker 1: to your first opening night on BROA because I know
Speaker 1: you're born for Broadway. You already know a baby. But
Speaker 1: I do have a question about the podcast that you
Speaker 1: have with Ricky Lay Yes, no, what a minute now,
Speaker 1: you aren't old enough to know Ricky Lake. Okay. So
Speaker 1: I've done Hairspray twice and so that's really where I
Speaker 1: knew Ricky Lake for. And actually how I ended up
Speaker 1: on the podcast. I was at brunch with Deray McKesson,
Speaker 1: who was an executive producer on the podcast Yea and Yes,
Speaker 1: Hey Deray. And so we were at brunch and he
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, Ricky Lake is doing this podcast and
Speaker 1: they're looking for, you know, young millennial talent to do
Speaker 1: it with her. And he was like, I think you'd
Speaker 1: be great fit. Let me know. And so I happened
Speaker 1: to be going to LA that next week, and so
Speaker 1: they had already auditioned people, like they have been doing
Speaker 1: auditions for people, and I was a last minute audition
Speaker 1: and they asked me to come into the studio and
Speaker 1: film and record with Ricky. So I walk in, I
Speaker 1: meet Ricky and she's like, Okay, you want to try this.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yeah, let's do it. And I went
Speaker 1: in there, I watched the clips and me and her
Speaker 1: just talked and she was obsessed from day from the jump,
Speaker 1: and she was like this is who I want. Like
Speaker 1: she hired me on the spot and then that's how
Speaker 1: the podcast was born. Wow, I love it. I am
Speaker 1: here for all the I mean, there's so many like tentacles,
Speaker 1: you know, as far as all that you can do. Now. Lastly,
Speaker 1: you have been vocal about love you but you've been
Speaker 1: very vocal about love in your life. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like that like best an important need of yours? Who
Speaker 1: now see listen you said lastly, But I'm like this
Speaker 1: got a couple of layers in because all the times
Speaker 1: where I'm like I'm good, okay, I'm gonna be brutally
Speaker 1: honest with you, I'm be brutally honest where I am
Speaker 1: right now, and after the experiences that I've had, especially
Speaker 1: while working in the industry, I've been like, Nope, don't
Speaker 1: want it. Nope, I'm better off without it because it's
Speaker 1: too much, it's too stressful, and I don't have time
Speaker 1: to be trying to figure out other folks intentions. I'm
Speaker 1: a little tired of it, you know what I mean. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you're saying that's where you are right now, Okay, y'all,
Speaker 1: I'm not intrusive, IM ain't gonna be nosy. Well, we
Speaker 1: already kind of you know, past our time. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have to do a part two. So I am thankful
Speaker 1: that you came to our show, giving so much hope
Speaker 1: and inspiration that when people are really who they are, authenticity,
Speaker 1: people see it and they gravitate to that more than
Speaker 1: something contrived and made up. I feel like consumers are
Speaker 1: way smarter now than they were even twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: Because twenty years ago you could get away with the
Speaker 1: publicity stunt, right, But I feel like people smell it,
Speaker 1: and I feel like people know now this ain't real.
Speaker 1: You know you're smarter than that, And so thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you. A trail blazer, Plin, a trail blazer us
Speaker 1: here at checking in, we are rooting for you and
Speaker 1: we are so excited about your new East Coast journey.
Speaker 1: Will you check in with us again? Oh? Come all right?
Speaker 1: I love you. I'll see you later to the move,
Speaker 1: all right, didn't we have fun? I told y'all, y'all
Speaker 1: don't be I don't be believing me. At times, I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful for a connection and relationship with Kalen. I
Speaker 1: understand transition. I understand the transition that he's making and
Speaker 1: going through, but I really feel like he's doing well
Speaker 1: with his transition. And prayerfully. This conversation was something for
Speaker 1: anybody else that's going through a job change or a
Speaker 1: school change, or relationship change, changes in the family, or
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you're going through that requires change.
Speaker 1: Change is good, Evolving is good. Deciding to reinvent yourself
Speaker 1: and what you want to do is good. I just
Speaker 1: want you to know that it's good. All right. It
Speaker 1: ain't over until it's good. Just know that you're loved. Hey, hey, hey,
Speaker 1: hey hey. If you live in Atlanta or you're like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I think, I just want to catch
Speaker 1: a flight, not feelings, you know. I think I want
Speaker 1: to take a road trip to be in Atlanta on
Speaker 1: April twenty second for the first Black Effect Podcast Festival.
Speaker 1: All Right, it's gonna be live podcasts from your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: I'm excited about the live podcast festival because it's going
Speaker 1: to be the first one. This festival is the first one,
Speaker 1: so I know it's gonna be amazing. And I'm so
Speaker 1: glad that Charlotte Mayne chose to have it home where
Speaker 1: I live. I don't know if he did it for me,
Speaker 1: but I'm just gonna put it out there he did
Speaker 1: it because of me. Okay, so listen. Come and check
Speaker 1: me out, Come check me out. I'm gonna be with
Speaker 1: the girls from Reasonably Shady. There's so many more. We're
Speaker 1: gonna rock it out. Okay. Tickets are available at black
Speaker 1: affect dot com. Get your tickets today at black affect
Speaker 1: dot com. All Right, I want to see you there,
Speaker 1: because if I don't, I'm gonna be mad and then
Speaker 1: I'll have to go get therapy. All right, So just
Speaker 1: come see your girl. Checking In with Michelle Williams is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.