Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to movie Crush for our first
Speaker 1: horror movie round table. That's spooky voices you're hearing that's
Speaker 1: actually null, believe it or not. Okay, I'm okay, I'm okay,
Speaker 1: I'm okay. And we have uh, Lauren and Annie with
Speaker 1: us as well, they too, are spooky. Finest compliment that
Speaker 1: you could give us anytime. So, Noel, when you got
Speaker 1: up for a minute and left the room, it was
Speaker 1: just the three of us left to talk about you,
Speaker 1: and we posed the question, when was the last time
Speaker 1: you had on hard pants? Not so, I'm sorry? Hard pants?
Speaker 1: Is that a thing? Did you like wooden pants like
Speaker 1: wicker Man style? You know? Yeah, you know? I gosh,
Speaker 1: you're making me, really putting me on the spot here.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, these are comfy, uh kind of puma
Speaker 1: type shorts, you know. I wear them when I'm around
Speaker 1: the house. I've I've occasionally dawned a pant. I've been
Speaker 1: known to donn a pant. But why who cares? Why
Speaker 1: bother unless you're going you know, out or something, and
Speaker 1: most of us aren't doing too much of that. But
Speaker 1: I've I've I've well, I've been out and I wore
Speaker 1: a pant, but you know what, I've also been out
Speaker 1: and worn these shorts. So to roll the dice, folks
Speaker 1: get well, We're here to kick off our official Halloween
Speaker 1: season on the Friday at ish with the two film
Speaker 1: The Witch Uh Colon, a New England folk tale, and
Speaker 1: that is from the great at the time new writer
Speaker 1: and director Robert Eggers, who was quickly established himself as
Speaker 1: one of the new masters. I think we can all loogree,
Speaker 1: right absolutely, And let's just go around with our our
Speaker 1: history here of seeing this movie and how many times
Speaker 1: and when the first time was Lauren and I saw
Speaker 1: it together for the first time. If I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 1: I believe so, yeah, at Midtown Arts Cinema. I think
Speaker 1: it was one of huh yeah, we um. It's one
Speaker 1: of the movies that we like stumbled out of. And
Speaker 1: I don't know what day or a month or year
Speaker 1: or time of day it was at the time, seems
Speaker 1: like so long ago, but but yeah, we stumbled out
Speaker 1: and we were like, okay, we need a whiskey about this,
Speaker 1: and so like just stumbled directly to the Highlander, the
Speaker 1: Little bar next door and proceeded to drink about it.
Speaker 1: Just go like, what just happened? What happened to our faces?
Speaker 1: That's amazing, Annie, what about you? I also saw it
Speaker 1: in theaters at Midtown Arts. I think I saw it
Speaker 1: a couple of times. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I've
Speaker 1: since seen it enough. I know. We jokingly said when
Speaker 1: we chose this movie in our email chain that the
Speaker 1: three of us Lauren Nolan I could just quote it um,
Speaker 1: which is probably true. But I watched it again nonetheless,
Speaker 1: because I'm always going to be prepared and I will
Speaker 1: always take an excuse to rewatch it and over on
Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you. The other podcast I do,
Speaker 1: we did a whole episode on it, um, so I'm
Speaker 1: quite familiar. Well, that's perfect. I saw it in New
Speaker 1: York City when it came out, muting my computer. And uh,
Speaker 1: there is a story in there that I've said before
Speaker 1: on the show to both Nolan the movie crushers. But
Speaker 1: when we get to that part, I will retell it
Speaker 1: for your benefit. But I saw in New York and
Speaker 1: then that was the only time I had seen it
Speaker 1: until again last night. And are you ready to live deliciously? Everyone?
Speaker 1: The line that spawned a thousand cross stitches. Have you
Speaker 1: seen me? There's a bunch of them with like little
Speaker 1: goati's with like live deliciously. Maybe it's not a thousand,
Speaker 1: but definitely a few of the I'd say a thousand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've I've got a T shirt that says that, and
Speaker 1: it's got a cute little goat on it. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The newest season of what we do in the Shadows,
Speaker 1: there's a black Philip. It's clearly black Philip. Right, He's
Speaker 1: like an all was washed out goat. I wish I
Speaker 1: had a photo to show you. I have goats that
Speaker 1: live across the street. I was raised with goats. I
Speaker 1: had goats as pets a couple of different times when
Speaker 1: I was a kid. And then I have goats across
Speaker 1: the street from my house here and that. There have
Speaker 1: been up to ten at various times. Now they're down
Speaker 1: to two. But one of the two, uh is it?
Speaker 1: You know? He looks like a black Philip. He's a
Speaker 1: big boy. Um. He has a habit of been pregnating
Speaker 1: all the lady goats. So there's been little babies here
Speaker 1: and there. There's a lady over there there's pregnant, right, now,
Speaker 1: but he has the horns that curl out to the side.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very creepy. Look yeah, it's sort of different
Speaker 1: than Black Philip. But I call him black Philip, but
Speaker 1: everyone else in our house calls him Billy of course. Yeah, chuck.
Speaker 1: When you when you just set up to ten goats,
Speaker 1: in my mind immediately the phrase up to ten goats agree,
Speaker 1: satan is cool? He's nine out of tints. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no outl or they all agree to as many
Speaker 1: as ten. Okay, okay, by the way, for in town Atlanta,
Speaker 1: you can have you can only have ten goats, So
Speaker 1: that's is that true? That is true? Ten farm animals?
Speaker 1: Now in your experience, because I've never really hung out
Speaker 1: with goats, Um are are they chill? Is this like?
Speaker 1: Did you have a good experience with these pets as
Speaker 1: a child. Yeah, oh yeah, they're great. And they were
Speaker 1: raised in the outdoor pin with my dogs, so they
Speaker 1: were very doglike and very playful. And uh the one
Speaker 1: my one goat, Nestor had he was de horned before
Speaker 1: we got him, but he didn't know that, so he
Speaker 1: still played Billy goat games with me. So I would
Speaker 1: put my head up against his head and we would
Speaker 1: push back and forth and kind of a reverse tug
Speaker 1: of war, and he would get up on his hind
Speaker 1: legs like Philip does and like butt down at me
Speaker 1: and stuff. It was a lot of fun. They're great.
Speaker 1: That is so darling, I've heard. I've heard that in contrast,
Speaker 1: the the Goat actor who played Black Philip was an
Speaker 1: actual unholy terror on set, just the worst co star.
Speaker 1: Um that the rabbit was super chill. Black Philip not
Speaker 1: so much, right, Chuck. You think you buried the lead
Speaker 1: real quick. Nestor is that of the biblical Nestor? Is that? Like?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not sure who in my family
Speaker 1: named him Nestor, but we had Nestor and Ramesses and
Speaker 1: then later on I think another goat. But nest there
Speaker 1: was really my love. He was the best. Nestre is
Speaker 1: an interesting name. I don't think I've ever met anyone
Speaker 1: or met a pet named Nester. So yeah, well there
Speaker 1: you have it. Nester's long gone. One of the kind. Apparently,
Speaker 1: when Heracles invaded the country of Nilius, he slew his
Speaker 1: son's Nestor alone was spared. I'm just gonna start calling
Speaker 1: you Nolopedia. Yeah, that's yeah, that was actually not that
Speaker 1: was from Bible history dot com. Just egg on my face,
Speaker 1: goat smolk on my face. Uh. So this is, like
Speaker 1: I said, subtitled a New England folk tale and I
Speaker 1: kind of forgot that part until that title screen came up.
Speaker 1: And it really is a folk tale and all the best,
Speaker 1: most rich ways and in that sort of folk tale tradition. Uh.
Speaker 1: And one of my favorite things that I jumped onto
Speaker 1: last night was how quickly and this movie was an
Speaker 1: hour and a half and it could have been a
Speaker 1: two hour film. There could have been a whole first
Speaker 1: act that really detailed their life before they left, but
Speaker 1: it just jumps right into that premise of them being
Speaker 1: basically expelled from whatever colony they're in. Yeah. The first
Speaker 1: time I saw it with the witch shows up immediately
Speaker 1: because I thought like maybe there isn't a witch and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, they're yeah, yeah, yeah, they
Speaker 1: waste no time. It's like twenty seconds after that baby
Speaker 1: first disappears, they're like, Noah, which took it. That's what's
Speaker 1: going on, let's see, And then they drop that line
Speaker 1: for like forty five minutes and you're like, did I
Speaker 1: hallucinate it, Am I hallucinating what's going on here? Which line,
Speaker 1: the line about the witch, the the entire just storyline
Speaker 1: of like it's just normal family drama for forty five minutes,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, cool, thank you. Yeah, I was surprised.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a different approach to play it, uh
Speaker 1: that way and not play it out longer and build
Speaker 1: that suspense. Yet it is totally suspenseful, sill because I
Speaker 1: guess you do sort of wonder whether or not there
Speaker 1: really is a witch, even though it shows that which,
Speaker 1: you know, crushing up that baby and rubbing it all
Speaker 1: over her body and one of the more disturbing parts
Speaker 1: of a very disturbing movie. But I also feel like
Speaker 1: there was some restraints involved in the movie just in general,
Speaker 1: Like it only showed the which a couple of times.
Speaker 1: That sequence is obviously incredible, and then you see her
Speaker 1: taking flights, you know, against the moon or whatever, and
Speaker 1: all of that and all of this, you know, the
Speaker 1: folk tale part of it is interesting because it is
Speaker 1: based in you know, folklore, the idea of which is
Speaker 1: creating this like ointment that they can use to coat
Speaker 1: themselves and their brooms that give them the power of flight,
Speaker 1: which in you know, uh, folklore and history is also
Speaker 1: like the thought to be hallucinogenic. And there's definitely some
Speaker 1: hallucinogenic elements in this movie. And it even implies at
Speaker 1: times maybe that there was a rot on their crops
Speaker 1: that was that or got poisoning situation that was involved
Speaker 1: in the Salem witch trials. Potentially that has like an
Speaker 1: LSD type uh component to it. Interesting, I didn't pick
Speaker 1: up on that, so uh yeah. So so one of
Speaker 1: the lines of thought is that is that there is
Speaker 1: no witch and that this family suffering suffering from like
Speaker 1: mass hallucination maybe but but but but but yet there
Speaker 1: it's not like you're seeing everything through their perspective. All
Speaker 1: the witch stuff is just you're there with the witch.
Speaker 1: So the implication to me would be that that which
Speaker 1: is damn real. Um, but they also might have their
Speaker 1: madness might have been furthered by this hallucinogenic contamination or
Speaker 1: something like that. I don't know a lot of fun
Speaker 1: ways to look at it, for sure, I love it. Um.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the cast. It's it's a very cheap
Speaker 1: way to make make a movie. I think they spent
Speaker 1: about four million bucks against a forty to fifty million
Speaker 1: dollar take, which is a very big hit in those terms.
Speaker 1: But the cast is so perfect. Um. I think that's
Speaker 1: the first time that we had all seen Anya Taylor Joy,
Speaker 1: wasn't it before the Night Channelain movie she was in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was awesome. That face, those big she just looks
Speaker 1: so perfect. Yeah. That that beautiful first shot that you
Speaker 1: really get of her when she's at prayer in the
Speaker 1: beginning of the movie and she's like, bless me father,
Speaker 1: for I have sin, I've done all of this terrible stuff.
Speaker 1: And you're looking at this beautiful, perfect darling face in
Speaker 1: in this time and place where like, clearly this this
Speaker 1: tiny child has done nothing, but it's so fearful. Um,
Speaker 1: and it just really kicks on and she's great. She's
Speaker 1: great in it, like like what a little shit kicker. Gosh,
Speaker 1: I love how fired up she gets by the end
Speaker 1: of the film. And then we have Ralph Innison. Um,
Speaker 1: fans of the original BBC Office you know know him. Well,
Speaker 1: it's so great. He was the asshole character, right, he
Speaker 1: was like sort of yeah, he was always playing pranks
Speaker 1: and being a misogynist, a douche bag. He's so good,
Speaker 1: and there's there's just uh, there's I mean, they they
Speaker 1: they're great actors, but there's something about casting certain looks
Speaker 1: for time periods. And all of them boys, especially that mom,
Speaker 1: I mean look like they just stepped right off the colony,
Speaker 1: you know. Oh yeah yeah, And Kate Dickie is so strong,
Speaker 1: like I I just can't well, Hey, I feel a
Speaker 1: little bit bad because I'm at this point. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're getting typecast is like weird breastfeeding mama and this
Speaker 1: is this is right because you do something else Game
Speaker 1: of Thrones. Yeah. Yeah, she played um oh gosh, the
Speaker 1: lady of the Eerie who continues breastfeeding her son until
Speaker 1: he's like thirteen. So yeah, okay, I'm not gonna judge.
Speaker 1: Her name is like Lisa or something like that. There
Speaker 1: you go. That's I didn't watch Game of Thrones. I
Speaker 1: know that makes me weird, not at all. It's not.
Speaker 1: It's not for everybody, but quite enjoyed it until you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't anymore. Uh. We got Harvey Scrimshaw as Caleb, who, boy,
Speaker 1: I read a big I read an article I think
Speaker 1: it was maybe Film School Rejects, just about that one
Speaker 1: scene and Edgar's was talking about how nervous he was,
Speaker 1: because it's eleven pages in a in a not super
Speaker 1: long script, very big chunk of the script, and that
Speaker 1: possession I guess scene for lack of a better description,
Speaker 1: and it is just so fucking great. Man. I I
Speaker 1: don't know how that boy brought that. And and they
Speaker 1: were in such a tight space. He was talking about
Speaker 1: shooting it with all those cast members in there, and
Speaker 1: those two little ship head twins you kind of want
Speaker 1: to die or disappear. And I say that as a
Speaker 1: loving bother, but they're all packed in this space. And
Speaker 1: he was like, I knew that we just had to um,
Speaker 1: we had to block around them because it's all about
Speaker 1: them bringing the performance. And he really did. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Every time I watched that, I'm like, wow, did they
Speaker 1: what did they tell him to do? And they talked
Speaker 1: about soccer, they did. They said, you know some of
Speaker 1: the stuff that felt sort of overtly sexual. He's he
Speaker 1: was getting him kind of fired up about soccer and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. That's the thing too about like a director,
Speaker 1: like you know, to be able to direct like blocking
Speaker 1: and all of the period accurate stuff, and then also
Speaker 1: to be able to direct like kid like that and
Speaker 1: just you know, such a tight cast with the weird
Speaker 1: period dialogue. Like that's what really sets this dude a part,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, is like his ability to just be
Speaker 1: the full package, you know, and what a scene and
Speaker 1: then he pukes up the apple and all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Iconic moment. Really, honestly, this movie I think we can
Speaker 1: already call a classic and say his iconic. So many
Speaker 1: things about it. Yeah, you mentioned that script. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about that because as we all know that he he
Speaker 1: did I think several months worth of research before he
Speaker 1: even started putting his little fingers on the keyboard, and
Speaker 1: it really shows. And it was for a first movie too.
Speaker 1: It's a very brave, bold move, I think. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like the first time that I watched it, it
Speaker 1: took me about the length of that opening kind of
Speaker 1: like court sequence where the family is being banished um
Speaker 1: to to to really get into um into the linguistics
Speaker 1: of that dialogue, and then I kind of forgot about
Speaker 1: it for the rest of the film the first time
Speaker 1: I was watching it. But now every time I go back,
Speaker 1: it's just so it's just really beautiful and in the
Speaker 1: way that the actors managed to wrangle it and especially
Speaker 1: the kids, what are they doing? I'm like, how dare
Speaker 1: they be so good? How dare the yeah? And the uh?
Speaker 1: Have you have you all watched it with subtitles or not?
Speaker 1: I have in a subsequent viewing with with a friend. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's you know, I mean, if you've if you've seen
Speaker 1: it a few times, I would recommend it because it's
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff in there that I have
Speaker 1: missed before, and a lot of little subtleties. But um,
Speaker 1: it definitely helped, but it is distracting, of course. I
Speaker 1: would definitely say, like, at this point you can take
Speaker 1: your eye away from the screen enough to read those
Speaker 1: Oh sure, yeah it was Ellie Granger and who's that
Speaker 1: other little kid that's one of the twins, When Lucas
Speaker 1: Dawson is Jonas. They're disturbing and unsettling. Everything adds an
Speaker 1: air of unsettledness. Yeah, And I do love a kids
Speaker 1: are Creepy troupe because I mean kids are creepy so
Speaker 1: uh that you don't know what's going on in their heads.
Speaker 1: They're they're they're people, but not yet I don't know,
Speaker 1: like what's going on with that? Yeah, the first time
Speaker 1: I saw it, I never ever thought Black Philip was real,
Speaker 1: and so when the Twins came on, I thought they
Speaker 1: were just being annoying, Like I really was, like jeez.
Speaker 1: But then in the end it turns out, yeah, it
Speaker 1: is the implication that the devil Goat was whispering to
Speaker 1: the chill dren and getting them to do things, and yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the whole family kind of turns at the
Speaker 1: end of that. That's the scariest part to me is
Speaker 1: I've never ever so we all grew up hearing about
Speaker 1: like the Salem witch trials, but this is the first
Speaker 1: time I watched something. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: you could not prove that you weren't a witch, and
Speaker 1: how terrifying that is. And like, the whole family turns
Speaker 1: against thomasin and she's just so isolated. And that's what
Speaker 1: Black Philip wanted is just see, see the society has
Speaker 1: failed you. Now come this way, have some butter, the
Speaker 1: taste of butter. He never promises her butter, but I'm out,
Speaker 1: I'm out a little dipping in a butter turn. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there's something about a One of my favorite kinds
Speaker 1: of movies is small cast, isolated setting and everyone slowly
Speaker 1: losing their minds one by one. It's such an effective
Speaker 1: set up, and we've seen it time and time again,
Speaker 1: but it works so well here because, like you were saying,
Speaker 1: any all, all someone has to do is, especially after
Speaker 1: they start kind of spiraling out of control mentally, is
Speaker 1: you know, she's our sisters a witch? And she squirted
Speaker 1: blood from that goat, which happened I guess rightly? Was
Speaker 1: she a witch? I mean, I know she became one,
Speaker 1: but I mean, you know that the goat could have
Speaker 1: just had blood in its milk. Um, that could have
Speaker 1: been just a normal natural medical thing. Um. She also
Speaker 1: found that chicken egg, the that that broken egg that
Speaker 1: was an unborn chicken. But you know it's it's it
Speaker 1: could have been just black Philip fucking with them, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Squirting blood is a good classic creepy thing to do.
Speaker 1: You know, if I were Lucifer in the Sevres, blood
Speaker 1: coming out of he says, where non blood thing should
Speaker 1: be coming out, like yeah, like in it, crying blood
Speaker 1: or like in it when she turns on the faucet
Speaker 1: and blood comes out or whatever, or it even actually
Speaker 1: makes use of a creepy chicken embryo situation that comes
Speaker 1: out of the fortune cookie in the Chinese restaurant. So
Speaker 1: the implication is that like a bedeviling force is wreaking
Speaker 1: havoc on on on everything you know, and causing things
Speaker 1: to be unnatural and yeah, you know, you know evil
Speaker 1: in some way. Well, what was your take, Annie, the
Speaker 1: first time you saw it? Do you remember if you
Speaker 1: were weighing whether or not she was an actual witch,
Speaker 1: because that's kind of what they're playing out, you know
Speaker 1: through a lot of this movie. I don't. I never
Speaker 1: thought she was a witch. Um, I did think that.
Speaker 1: I never ever suspected Black Philip. I just assumed like
Speaker 1: this witch was waiting for them to kill themselves or
Speaker 1: something like take each other out. Um. But like even
Speaker 1: in the scene where she's threatening Mercy and she's like,
Speaker 1: I am the Witch of the id, be the witch
Speaker 1: of the woods, and I'll eat you in what ever,
Speaker 1: I was just like, you know, this is a frustrated
Speaker 1: young girl who doesn't have much avenue for power or
Speaker 1: agency in any other way, and she's tasting this power. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's what always gives me about horror movies. As
Speaker 1: I get there's this line of being empowered to these
Speaker 1: female characters. But even if you taste that power, if
Speaker 1: you accept that, people are so afraid of you, they're
Speaker 1: so afraid of which is, they'll kill you for it.
Speaker 1: Like then you can't prove that you're not. So why
Speaker 1: not accept it? Why not take the label? But then
Speaker 1: they'll kill you for it either way, I guess. So,
Speaker 1: how how do you think the Witch figured into all
Speaker 1: of this? Because the Which is clearly not the focus.
Speaker 1: It's the devil. I mean, it's sort of like a
Speaker 1: bait and switch, right, So the Which exists on the periphery,
Speaker 1: but isn't necessarily Like how what where's the connection to
Speaker 1: from the Witch to black fill up to the relationship
Speaker 1: with thomasin I think the Witch was there, you know,
Speaker 1: his sort of agents of evil, and she was the
Speaker 1: first step in, uh start like driving this wedge and
Speaker 1: what's going to destroy this family? And also you get
Speaker 1: a baby that's not baptized out of it, which I
Speaker 1: hear satan bonus, But yeah, that that's how you get
Speaker 1: to this, to this impressionable young girl as you drive
Speaker 1: her family apart through just just a just an innocent
Speaker 1: babe stealing, simple direct to the point, right, yeah, get
Speaker 1: through the scariest game of peekaboo in movie history. I mean,
Speaker 1: as a filmmaker, there's there's something so effective about these little,
Speaker 1: simple shots. Whether it's that baby is gone and that
Speaker 1: look on her face you see it on her face first,
Speaker 1: or a very slow camera push into the forest with
Speaker 1: that droning score, or the ability to make a fucking
Speaker 1: rabbit look scary just just looking at your face. You
Speaker 1: know that rabbit looks scary. I've never been so upset
Speaker 1: by a rabbit in my life. I mean, I get
Speaker 1: the goat because those sideways, sideways pupils, that's what does it.
Speaker 1: That's what it really gets people. And then that first
Speaker 1: shot of Philip is so great when it uh someone's
Speaker 1: got a steadicam and he's just like kind of bucking
Speaker 1: and jumping around through the yard, like right away that
Speaker 1: he that's just like, this goat is not right, everybody,
Speaker 1: this is a bad goat. Um yeah, yeah, yeah. And
Speaker 1: and the I was thinking as I was just rewatching it,
Speaker 1: about about that camera movement and about that score, because
Speaker 1: because the score is so barren um, it's really only
Speaker 1: in these big dramatic moments that it comes in so
Speaker 1: huge um. But but the rest of the time, it's
Speaker 1: just silence. It's just watching these actors chew their lines
Speaker 1: in the best possible way. And the camera movement is
Speaker 1: is sort of similar, like like a lot of the
Speaker 1: time the camera is very still, just just really letting
Speaker 1: these scenes play out, um intill Yeah, like until I
Speaker 1: don't know, like like almost like um, you know, using
Speaker 1: the movement to to to to show what's going on
Speaker 1: in someone's head, almost as though he's a filmmaker. Strange, unusual.
Speaker 1: But it also doesn't have any like crazy editing tricks.
Speaker 1: It's all really matter of fact, and even like the
Speaker 1: thomasin Perspective shot or whatever, is super straightforward and and
Speaker 1: and and to me, it's a lot of it really
Speaker 1: has to do with the lighting from of the indoor stuff.
Speaker 1: It all looks like a Caravaggio paintings, you know, uses
Speaker 1: this kind of curescirl lighting to give it this sort
Speaker 1: of holy quality. But then of course that's all turned
Speaker 1: on its head by making it, you know, unholy. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's really it was literally candled it at times.
Speaker 1: I mean they may have had some supplemental lighting, but
Speaker 1: some of those shots it looks like practical candles, which
Speaker 1: I know something Kuberc has done before. UM know that
Speaker 1: that dinner scene, UM where her mother accuses Thomasin of
Speaker 1: stealing the cup. UM. Edgar's talks in the in the
Speaker 1: director's commentary about he's so dear. If you have not
Speaker 1: listened to the director's commentary, he seems like the sweetest,
Speaker 1: nerdiest human person on the planet. It's so darling because
Speaker 1: he's just like, he just goes on this rant for
Speaker 1: that entire scene. He's like, you know, it really would
Speaker 1: have been more historically accurate to do a single braided candlewick.
Speaker 1: But I just wasn't getting I wasn't getting enough light
Speaker 1: out of it. I really needed more lights. So we
Speaker 1: we triple braided the wicks. I'm so sorry. We just
Speaker 1: we just had to use and I was just like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? I love you if every time
Speaker 1: I watched that scene, I think how dark it is?
Speaker 1: Look at this? Yeah, yeah, and that's it also accomplishes
Speaker 1: that thing where it's beautiful and UM looks great, but
Speaker 1: the things in the shadows that could be there that
Speaker 1: are never there really in this movie. But you add
Speaker 1: that drone e score and audience up to to expect
Speaker 1: whatever is coming your way. Yeah, the film takes up
Speaker 1: a lot of space like um, like the in in
Speaker 1: a lot of horror um. Some of the fear comes
Speaker 1: from like a confinement and a closing in. But but
Speaker 1: I feel I feel like the scariest moments for me
Speaker 1: are just these shots of the woods that are so
Speaker 1: vast and you just feel so lonely, um and and
Speaker 1: separated and just I don't know, like the idea of
Speaker 1: living out there like that, like hoof, hoof, I would
Speaker 1: start accusing my sisters a being, which is too I
Speaker 1: don't know. Like that's another thing that this movie made
Speaker 1: me really appreciate about history that I've learned but have
Speaker 1: never really thought of, Like how frightening it would be
Speaker 1: if you did come to these new colonies you don't
Speaker 1: know what to expect, and it's harsh and how are
Speaker 1: you literally going to survive? And in that scene, like
Speaker 1: in that dinner scene, it's so dark and I kept thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, those candles go out and it's just darkness
Speaker 1: and emptiness and that's it, and how like ominous and
Speaker 1: foreboding and over that there's hanging like we don't have
Speaker 1: food and we don't know, if we're gonna get food
Speaker 1: and we don't know why there's not food and how
Speaker 1: to fix it, Like all of this stuff that's just
Speaker 1: had to have been like the actual life people lived
Speaker 1: when they first came here, and like the one thing
Speaker 1: kind of holding them together is the power of belief,
Speaker 1: you know, and God, and that's the thing that's tested
Speaker 1: through all these ordeals they're going through and ultimately taken
Speaker 1: from them, I mean, Thomas, and you know, like you said,
Speaker 1: the first scene you see with her is more her
Speaker 1: presenting that fear mongering aspect of religion, and that continues
Speaker 1: to be a thread, you know, But for the father
Speaker 1: and the mother, I think it's more of a comforting
Speaker 1: aspect perhaps, but that's obviously taken from them, and it's
Speaker 1: sort of bastardized that that their belief and it's turned
Speaker 1: on them. It's you weaponized against them, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He kind of admits at the end too, and that
Speaker 1: one great scene where he's just sort of has that monologue,
Speaker 1: I guess that's probably that's right before Philip takes care
Speaker 1: of business, right where he sort of admits it was
Speaker 1: his pride and not like some divine calling to bring
Speaker 1: his family out there and uh, you know when they
Speaker 1: first get there too, that great shot of them just
Speaker 1: like thanks, so thankful that they came to this place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the sun shall not shine here, no, not once. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and his i mean, his pride. This whole movie they
Speaker 1: spend blaming Thomason, but really he's the one that got
Speaker 1: them kicked out because he was arrogant. He thought he
Speaker 1: knew more about religion than anybody else and refused to
Speaker 1: hear anything else. He's the one that got them out there.
Speaker 1: And then he's just constantly proving that he's failing and
Speaker 1: it's unwilling to see it or admit it, and let's
Speaker 1: Thomason be blamed for it over and over. So finally
Speaker 1: it's like he was such a religious pious man. He
Speaker 1: finally like confesses, oh, it's my pride, and then black
Speaker 1: Philips like, yep, now I'm gonna kill you. Pride cometh
Speaker 1: before the fall into a stack of fucking logs. The
Speaker 1: only thing he did shopping that was pretty great, Like
Speaker 1: that was his undoing in the end, the huge wall
Speaker 1: of logs just dumbling us and you know, the the
Speaker 1: goat holes in his stomach, right, yeah, go gourd so
Speaker 1: so the colony that they came from, I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: whatever the town in England, they would have been Reform Christians.
Speaker 1: And then he was a Puritan. Is that sort of
Speaker 1: the deal? Or I think they're Puritans, right, Yeah, they're Puritans,
Speaker 1: but he's like way intense period. Yeah, they're they're like whoa,
Speaker 1: Like the other Puritans are like woe dude. So they
Speaker 1: were Puritans too. He was just like an extremist, escensional Okay,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't a Calvinish yeah, uh yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: it's interesting because he I think he thinks he's a
Speaker 1: good dad and a good provider because he's very I
Speaker 1: think he's very conflicted because is at times he is
Speaker 1: a good father and he is destroyed when his uh
Speaker 1: baby son and when Caleb is gone, and when he
Speaker 1: when he finally has that moment where he meets up
Speaker 1: with thomasin in the woods, like you really get a
Speaker 1: sense of how genuine it it is that he's found her,
Speaker 1: but he has he also sold her down the river
Speaker 1: about that goddamn cup. Yeah, and admitted it. But it's
Speaker 1: like like an he said, like he's he makes all
Speaker 1: the wrong moves, that's right. Yeah, pride. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And it's so like like some of some of the
Speaker 1: some of the things that he says, um are just
Speaker 1: so dire, like like even about even about uh uh,
Speaker 1: this god in this religion that that he is so
Speaker 1: steeped in. Like there's there's one line where he's like
Speaker 1: his son maybe in the woods. Oh, I mean all
Speaker 1: of it, all of it. Like I mean the two
Speaker 1: that the two that super stood out to me and
Speaker 1: I wrote them down. Um. One of them was a
Speaker 1: quick little throw away line. He's like, oh, yeah, of
Speaker 1: course everyone else is still asleep on a gray day.
Speaker 1: The devil holds fast your eyelids. I was like, what, Like, holy,
Speaker 1: that is the direst fucking way of thinking about sleeping in.
Speaker 1: I know, then why is it so gloomy? Because that
Speaker 1: makes me want to sleep in. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: research on the religion, like when I did this episode
Speaker 1: for Sminty on the religious what would be going on?
Speaker 1: And at the time, it was like a moral good.
Speaker 1: Drudgery was a moral good. So you wanted, like to
Speaker 1: be miserable essentially proved that you were a good person. Well,
Speaker 1: he said, the rain doesn't he said, the rain doesn't
Speaker 1: bother me, you know, when he was going to go
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, Dude, it is fucking pouring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and thomasin when she's like, like you said, Lauren, and
Speaker 1: she's confessing all those things that sound like she's just
Speaker 1: basically confessing to I'm not miserable all the time and
Speaker 1: I'm a kid and feeling bad for it. And she's
Speaker 1: really the only one in this soup a religious family
Speaker 1: that has that sort of confession moment um. She's also
Speaker 1: other than going off on Mercy that one time, I'd
Speaker 1: be the witch of the woods. Um. Other than that,
Speaker 1: though she does that was a brady child and she
Speaker 1: deserved it. Um Mercy started it. But but but now,
Speaker 1: other than that is like the only bad thing that
Speaker 1: Thomason does the entire film. Literally everything else is just
Speaker 1: a reaction to what's being thrown at. She's trying so
Speaker 1: hard to be good and devoted and like and like
Speaker 1: her little brother is lusting after her, and her dad
Speaker 1: is is a dick, and her mom is mean to her,
Speaker 1: and I think like covetous of her youth. And what
Speaker 1: was your other line, Lauren that you had picked out
Speaker 1: again at that dinner scene when when the father is
Speaker 1: doing that prayer. One of the things that he says,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if this is like a traditional
Speaker 1: thing to say or not, but it really struck me.
Speaker 1: He says, um, let us finish soon our days of
Speaker 1: sin and be like released up into the Lord's what's
Speaker 1: you're the only one sin? And Lauren. A minute ago
Speaker 1: I mentioned the scene about when he and his son
Speaker 1: go hunt or whatever, and there's a really similar line
Speaker 1: to that that actually answers that question. Um. He this
Speaker 1: is a little back and forth. Or he says to
Speaker 1: his son, art thou then born a sinner? And Caleb says, I,
Speaker 1: I was conceived in sin and born in iniquity, And
Speaker 1: William says uh, and what is thy birth sin? And
Speaker 1: Caleb says, Adam, sin imputed to me, and a corrupt
Speaker 1: nature dwelling within me. And then William says, well, remembered
Speaker 1: Caleb very well. And then he goes and canst thou
Speaker 1: tell me what thy corrupt nature is? And then Caleb says,
Speaker 1: this is the kicker. My corrupt nature is empty of grace,
Speaker 1: bent unto sin, only unto sin, And that continually, and
Speaker 1: I was like a wrote lesson like that was something
Speaker 1: that he was clearly heating from memory. Yeah, yeah, it's uh,
Speaker 1: I mean I grew up Southern Baptist and it's obviously
Speaker 1: nothing like this. But um, so much and you know
Speaker 1: on my religious soapbox, but so much damage has done
Speaker 1: to kids at a young age. Um, whether it's stuffing
Speaker 1: really heavy like this back in the six hundreds or
Speaker 1: a kid growing up in the eighties being taught that, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, nudity is ugly and dirty and sex is
Speaker 1: wrong and dirty, and you know that stuff is still
Speaker 1: being bandied about and two two children, Um, and and
Speaker 1: it's funny. And you mentioned earlier something I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about that really really hit me last night was
Speaker 1: that for all the horror and the witchiness and the
Speaker 1: double goats, this movie is such a family drama. And
Speaker 1: Egger's I think was so wise to include so much
Speaker 1: of that stuff because it really made it accessible to
Speaker 1: an audience like that. The scene that really got me
Speaker 1: is when they were overhearing them downstairs fighting, and like
Speaker 1: I think we we can all probably point to at
Speaker 1: some point in our childhood that feeling of insecurity you
Speaker 1: have as a kid hearing your parents go at it
Speaker 1: in the other room. Um, and like that's something we
Speaker 1: can all identify with, whether it's sixteen hundreds New England
Speaker 1: or or like modern times. Yeah. Absolutely, Like it's strange,
Speaker 1: it feels so removed in some ways because they are
Speaker 1: speaking so differently than us and clearly like the technologies
Speaker 1: are there, and but there are things like that that
Speaker 1: you can just relate to. I have been there. I
Speaker 1: remember this terror and like this feeling of powerlessness. What
Speaker 1: am I going to do? And in this case, they're
Speaker 1: talking about giving her like giving her away another family. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: serve another families. I think it's what they said. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like or you could just be parents. No, and
Speaker 1: it specifically because they think she's like gone astray, right
Speaker 1: or like is in way whether you know a witch.
Speaker 1: Not yet they're not really quite thinking that yet. There's
Speaker 1: more thinking that she's sort of a bad egg. I
Speaker 1: think they just need to make money and they're just like, well,
Speaker 1: what else have we got that's worth something? Our kid? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we can just made We'll give her away as a
Speaker 1: maid or yeah. Yeah, and no, you can't say bad
Speaker 1: egg in this movie because we've already talked about the
Speaker 1: bad egg. Very true about bad bad seed the literal
Speaker 1: bad egg. Well the bad seed was the corn keep
Speaker 1: going bad apple? We got one of those two. Holy shit,
Speaker 1: I think we just picked up on something does well.
Speaker 1: The whole movie is really about corruption, though, you know,
Speaker 1: it's about being corrupted and being susceptible to corruption. And
Speaker 1: you do see that in like the crops that are
Speaker 1: withering and causing them to like you know, not have
Speaker 1: their livelihood or their ability to survive, and then that
Speaker 1: slowly causing them to go mad. Just the fear and
Speaker 1: then the isolation and then the ability to be corrupted
Speaker 1: spiritually and this fear of the devil being ever awhere
Speaker 1: and being susceptible to that corruption and fighting against it,
Speaker 1: when ultimately you're creating this problem that maybe doesn't even exist,
Speaker 1: only in this case it did exist, which is interesting. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's a lot. Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: think and I think all of the corruption comes back
Speaker 1: to this like toxic masculinity of of the father and
Speaker 1: also of the religion that the father subscribes to Um
Speaker 1: and just everything that he's trying to do. That there's
Speaker 1: a there's a couple of scenes that that scene where
Speaker 1: um thomasin winds up yelling at him, um um is
Speaker 1: that true? Like like like what about that, dad? All
Speaker 1: you're good for is cutting wood? Dad? And it's about
Speaker 1: to shake her head off her neck right now. Now.
Speaker 1: That was a very powerful scene and I think we
Speaker 1: all needed that scene. Yeah. I do want to say
Speaker 1: that this movie when it came out, it partnered with
Speaker 1: um the is it the Satanic Temple? Uh? Yes? And
Speaker 1: they called it like a story about feminine independence and
Speaker 1: how I mean, so many which movies are seen as
Speaker 1: like a feminist tale, but a lot of times the
Speaker 1: which does end up as a victim. And they were saying,
Speaker 1: like in this case, another author called it a feminist
Speaker 1: kick in the balls. And because she is, she's like,
Speaker 1: she's so like you said, Lauren, she's trying to be
Speaker 1: a good daughter. She's trying to fit in the system.
Speaker 1: It's continuously being blamed, continuously had fear like cast upon her,
Speaker 1: and no one's even concerned that maybe she has like
Speaker 1: fears of her own. They don't care, Like she's the witch.
Speaker 1: It's the easy way out. Let's blame this young girl
Speaker 1: who's transitioning into womanhood and how threatening that is. And
Speaker 1: then in the end, when she's sort of out of options,
Speaker 1: she becomes this thing I'm afraid of the whole time.
Speaker 1: It looks happy and empowered for the first time in
Speaker 1: the movie. Oh, in that in that horrifying final shot
Speaker 1: where she's just in this like terrible ecstasy. Oh gosh,
Speaker 1: I just got him. I just got him. Literally just
Speaker 1: you even invoking that moment. Yeah, I mean one of
Speaker 1: the bad one of the most badass final shots and
Speaker 1: sequences in movie history. I remember sitting in the theater
Speaker 1: in New York and like once that happened, and then
Speaker 1: the movie was over, kind of like this silence where
Speaker 1: everyone was just like a collective what the fuck falling
Speaker 1: over the theater, like what did we just see? It
Speaker 1: was such a great payoff. He had to he had
Speaker 1: to do it that way. You can't tease it out anymore,
Speaker 1: like show those witches man and And I think the
Speaker 1: implication there is that they're all flying in a big
Speaker 1: way because they mashed up those twins, right, Oh, I
Speaker 1: didn't think about that. Maybe that's what I took from
Speaker 1: it was they're all the twins disappeared too, right, that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're all super flighty at the end. Because I think
Speaker 1: they're wearing uh Jonas and Mercy didn't even super powerful
Speaker 1: twin June. That's a two for one deal, right, double
Speaker 1: the flight power. That is the first time she didn't
Speaker 1: kill them. Thomason didn't like. I don't know. I mean
Speaker 1: those goats were dead too, those that goat carcass. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a goat carcass, but I don't if they
Speaker 1: if there was an implied Twins carcasses, I don't remember it.
Speaker 1: I think they just think they were just gone. They
Speaker 1: they were announced to have kind of been vanished. I
Speaker 1: believe at some point they disappeared or whatever. So because
Speaker 1: some I think some people think it's a loose end
Speaker 1: and I do not interesting twin Juice yea. The production design,
Speaker 1: it's just amazing. It's feels so authentic in this and
Speaker 1: the Lighthouse, which I'm sure we've all seen. Uh, there's
Speaker 1: a um the extra work that you put in as
Speaker 1: a director to make it so real really pays off. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it's just such a fun world to set a
Speaker 1: movie in with those rickety carts and that was so overstuffed,
Speaker 1: and and the Witch's hovel in the woods was just
Speaker 1: like you want to run away from from it, but
Speaker 1: you also want to like poke your head in to
Speaker 1: see what's in there. Yeah, and it's just dark enough
Speaker 1: that there's like this urge of I want it to
Speaker 1: be lighter, but do I do? I really want to
Speaker 1: see more? Man, it looks so good and all the
Speaker 1: like texture of of the of the clothing, and there's
Speaker 1: so much rough wood in that film. It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1: And I remember when I was reading about how it's
Speaker 1: made because it's so like neutral. A lot of it's
Speaker 1: kind of dark and neutral. And some days they would
Speaker 1: just wait for clouds, like they wouldn't film on sunny days,
Speaker 1: and it caused like this huge hold up or like
Speaker 1: where's the bad weather? Where these clouds? I know you had,
Speaker 1: I mean I read I read that too that he
Speaker 1: had to kind of stay in that gray palette. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you can do some stuff to fake it, but
Speaker 1: if it's a sunny day, you can't. It's really hard
Speaker 1: to fake that believable way. He said, the crew was
Speaker 1: not very happy on this on this shoot. Imagine the
Speaker 1: same for the light. Oh gosh, I imagine the same
Speaker 1: for the lighthouse. It's like making his crew pretty miserable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: suffering for the art. Yeah it works, Oh it does. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because just all of those neutrals and the only pop
Speaker 1: of color that you ever get is the reds the
Speaker 1: like five times that it's like it's like blood or
Speaker 1: um or or little dream baby Sam's wrappings when he
Speaker 1: comes back, and the Witches, except it's not a dream
Speaker 1: because our boob is bleeding. Oh my heck. Anyway, young
Speaker 1: young sexy witch, young sex. Yeah, yeah, Apple and the Apple.
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about the the breastfeeding scene because that
Speaker 1: is where my New York story comes in. Uh. And
Speaker 1: like I said, I've told this story before to null
Speaker 1: in the audience, but for you too, seeing movies in
Speaker 1: New York is the best. I don't know if you've
Speaker 1: ever done it, because you never know what you're gonna
Speaker 1: get because New York. But um, that movie had built
Speaker 1: up so much tension up to that point, and it
Speaker 1: was a pretty crowded theater and I was by myself,
Speaker 1: and that showed the shot of the crow pecking away
Speaker 1: at her breast and this woman like tin rose in
Speaker 1: front of me. All you hear is and really loudly,
Speaker 1: that is so fucked up, And everybody broke out in laughter.
Speaker 1: The whole theater. I think we all wanted to like
Speaker 1: hug that lady because it's like we needed that so much,
Speaker 1: and it broke the ice and everyone just started laughing,
Speaker 1: and it was just one of those great sort of
Speaker 1: movie moments where talking back to the screen really kind
Speaker 1: of helped out. Oh yeah, I adore that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: That that's what I truly miss about seeing um and
Speaker 1: especially horror films with a live audience, because when when
Speaker 1: you get that break intension, it's so beautiful and such
Speaker 1: a like like human collect to experience. No, I miss
Speaker 1: it so much. It's a there's a different you know,
Speaker 1: sitting around watching movies at home is fun and all,
Speaker 1: but that whether it's comedy or horror, those seemed to
Speaker 1: be the kind of two that really lends itself to
Speaker 1: the collective experience. Yeah, we're all sad. So he has
Speaker 1: that one great scene where you know, she tells him
Speaker 1: off and everything, and he's going to take her in
Speaker 1: to be tried as a witch, like that's the plan, right,
Speaker 1: and and locks him in there with Black Philip. Little
Speaker 1: does he know that was a big fat mistake, like
Speaker 1: literally locking them in a room with the devil. Uh,
Speaker 1: and and when it's revealed, I don't think you ever
Speaker 1: see his face, do you? Or does it show his
Speaker 1: face briefly? Oh the like human form of black? Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: you don't see his face. But I don't know if
Speaker 1: this is maybe it's just really good at suggesting what
Speaker 1: he looks like. But I feel like, I knowbody looks
Speaker 1: it's super handsome. I think, yeah, yeah, dark hair, dark
Speaker 1: guys grows. Yeah, because you see his boot and you
Speaker 1: see his glove and that's it. And then you just
Speaker 1: f no and you get that beautiful voice and whatever
Speaker 1: whatever audio effects that they were doing where it's just
Speaker 1: kind of coming from everywhere and inside you at the
Speaker 1: same time. Yeah, it was pretty surrupy. I will guide
Speaker 1: the hand Man. The first time I watched this, I
Speaker 1: remember at this part, I was like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: So there w black Philip was satan Wow. Well, and
Speaker 1: again it's about this payoff. This movie has such great payoffs, uh,
Speaker 1: because you're sort of wondering the whole time, and then yeah,
Speaker 1: when that reveal happens, it's just it's like a gift
Speaker 1: to the audience, you know, like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: leave you guesting anymore. Here here, you are, Well, that's
Speaker 1: what's so clever about introducing the witch early on and
Speaker 1: kind of leaving it be, because then I just assumed, well,
Speaker 1: it's all the bitch must be the witch, there's nothing
Speaker 1: else beyond that, and then at the end it's like, no,
Speaker 1: actually there's a lot of witches and they're satan. So yeah,
Speaker 1: the way mom gets it too is so brutal, yet
Speaker 1: somehow satisfying because I get the feeling that one of
Speaker 1: them was going to walk out of their dead, you know,
Speaker 1: in that confrontation. Oh yeah, um it killed. That seem
Speaker 1: kills me every time because when when her mom first
Speaker 1: pushes her down Thomas and is like it is like no,
Speaker 1: I love you, I love you, I love you, like
Speaker 1: fight like fighting her off, and I'm just like that
Speaker 1: was brutal. Who uh yeah, I mean she's fighting for
Speaker 1: her literal life and also trying to like I mean,
Speaker 1: you think it's hard dealing with parents like when we
Speaker 1: were growing up, Like imagine this like calvinist puritanical ship
Speaker 1: to where you you can't even have a real conversation
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, I mean it's so sad because she
Speaker 1: is just kind of pleading with her mom. Don't you
Speaker 1: love I love you, I love you, don't you love me?
Speaker 1: And that kind of throughout comes up of how her
Speaker 1: mom is so ready to throw her under the bus
Speaker 1: and under the car here, right, I should be period
Speaker 1: accurate in my idioms that I use um and she
Speaker 1: has this insecurity of does her mother actually love her?
Speaker 1: Can she find favor in her eyes? Yeah, it's such
Speaker 1: a I mean again with this in the Lighthouse, I
Speaker 1: think we're seeing the beginnings of a career. That's just
Speaker 1: you know, we're all going to be seeing his movies
Speaker 1: on like the first weekend that they come out. I
Speaker 1: think he's making like a Viking movie next. And I
Speaker 1: heard that and I was like, of course he is perfect.
Speaker 1: Sure he will never make a contemporary peace and why
Speaker 1: should he when like, you see something like this and
Speaker 1: you just think, why is in every horror movie a
Speaker 1: period a movie? This is so funny because it's not.
Speaker 1: But recently I just did a research on a period
Speaker 1: supernatural horror which it's actually about menstruation. But every time
Speaker 1: I say it, people think I'm talking about this, and
Speaker 1: I always have to explain no, so that that that
Speaker 1: the period, not the period that Yeah, yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: that period. It's like that joke, have you seen there
Speaker 1: will be blood? And they're like, yeah, it's a period piece.
Speaker 1: A great way to wrap this one up. Does anyone
Speaker 1: else have anything on their list? I mean, I think
Speaker 1: we kind of covered it. No, Just that it is
Speaker 1: so interesting that this guy is really sticking in this lane.
Speaker 1: Obviously with the historical accuracy stuff is obviously a much
Speaker 1: more challenging thing to do for film, but he's also
Speaker 1: managed to keep it pretty tightly laser focused, even with
Speaker 1: like the Lighthouse. I wonder if became as the Lighthouse
Speaker 1: was also such a success, if maybe this Viking movie
Speaker 1: is going to broaden that world a little bit and
Speaker 1: go massive with it. Um, I'm sure you can do
Speaker 1: that too. But really interesting economy of filmmaking and in
Speaker 1: terms of the way he uses locations, and I mean,
Speaker 1: lighthouse wasn't cheap, you know, they had to build that
Speaker 1: lighthouse and do all that stuff and make sure they
Speaker 1: get the cameras in places, and but he seems to
Speaker 1: know where to spend his money, you know. Uh. And
Speaker 1: I think he's ambitious for sure. Yeah, I mean, just
Speaker 1: one of the new geniuses. He's Uh. I can't wait
Speaker 1: to see what he does. I mean, I know, all
Speaker 1: I know is Vikings. I'm sure it'll be a lighthearted romp.
Speaker 1: Actually have two quotes, Can I share? One of those?
Speaker 1: My favorite of all time about Okay, so one Diane
Speaker 1: Cohen when she was writing about this, she said, the
Speaker 1: real horror and Robert Egger's new film Levich a new
Speaker 1: income folktell isn't satanic goats, baby abduction or even the
Speaker 1: fariest witches in the woods is all limited and punishing
Speaker 1: road to womanhood. Yeah, now here's my favorite quote. This
Speaker 1: is from the Malleus Malfacarum. Do you all know what
Speaker 1: that is? It's like a tomb, It's like a grimoire,
Speaker 1: right kind of Yes, it was a bestseller witch hunting
Speaker 1: book from It was written by Catholic inquisitors, and there
Speaker 1: was this fear at the time, and this is legit
Speaker 1: that women were cutting off men's penises for their own
Speaker 1: personal use. So it's like bookmarks or what. No, here's
Speaker 1: the quote. Okay, how as it were, which is deprived
Speaker 1: man of his virile member? And what then is to
Speaker 1: be thought of those which is who in this way
Speaker 1: sometimes collect male organs in great numbers, as many as
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty members together and put them in a
Speaker 1: bird's nest or shut them up in a box where
Speaker 1: they move themselves like living members and eat oats and corn,
Speaker 1: as has been seen by many and as a matter
Speaker 1: of common report. Wow, Yeah, they thought they were a
Speaker 1: penises like pets and feeding them because it was a
Speaker 1: matter of common report. Wow. And you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: funny because you can say, oh, back then then they
Speaker 1: were so crazy with how they did things, but you
Speaker 1: can draw direct lines to modern society and ways that
Speaker 1: the same things are happening that don't seem quite as
Speaker 1: crazy on the surface, but are still still have the
Speaker 1: same means to the same end. You know. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were so afraid that women could have sexual pleasure by themselves.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I laugh at this, But a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand people did die in these two centuries because they
Speaker 1: were suspected of being which is of them were women? Wow?
Speaker 1: So there were there were male witches? Oh yeah, they
Speaker 1: could be pretty rare though. I wonder if some of
Speaker 1: those men were gay men. Very likely not, I wonder.
Speaker 1: I'm sure probably feminate in whatever way was considered yeah,
Speaker 1: equally evil or someone with a disability or learning disability
Speaker 1: or anything that is just not quite right by their eye, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what the Witch stands for so many times,
Speaker 1: is someone who doesn't fit into societal norms. Is it's
Speaker 1: somehow trespassing that, whether it's a single woman, god forbid,
Speaker 1: what is she doing, just anyone who isn't quite what
Speaker 1: society says you should be right and it's still going on. Well,
Speaker 1: this is hard, it really is. And I'm sure Edgar's
Speaker 1: was not, you know, blind to that. You know, it
Speaker 1: seems to be one of the messages. And I think
Speaker 1: it was nice and subtle too. Yeah, it was great
Speaker 1: because he said he never meant to make a feminist
Speaker 1: movie and he was kind of surprised by it afterwards.
Speaker 1: That's what it is, and that's what it is, all right,
Speaker 1: Thank good for him. That's great. Yeah, because I feel
Speaker 1: like The Lighthouse is also equally about toxic masculinity anyway, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a topic for a. I'd love to
Speaker 1: know his family background. That's the interesting thing about Horror
Speaker 1: to me is there's always this question after I watch
Speaker 1: a hormone for like, I wonder, I wonder, what's up
Speaker 1: with them? Yeah. I mean the lighthouse is so clearly
Speaker 1: a father son bone to pick and this is a
Speaker 1: father daughter a little bit of father son, but maybe
Speaker 1: it's just parents child dynamic is simpler said, you know,
Speaker 1: I wonder if he has kids. These questions are easily
Speaker 1: answered or coats google this stuff. All right, Well, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go across the street and play with my black
Speaker 1: Philip and bring him some salary. And uh, thank you Lauren,
Speaker 1: thank you Annie, and thank you Noel. This is a
Speaker 1: great way to kick off the official Friday holiday season. Yes,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Trying to call it a holiday
Speaker 1: like it's Christmas or something, but it kind of is
Speaker 1: for us about all right. Well, thanks you guys, and
Speaker 1: you'll probably be in one of these other ones. So
Speaker 1: look forward to hearing from you again soon. Thank you,
Speaker 1: bye everybody, Bye bye bye. Smothe Crash. It's produced and
Speaker 1: written by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered
Speaker 1: by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown here
Speaker 1: in our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the i Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.