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Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: I do you feel, like Jennifer Lots of being talked
Speaker 2: about how AI may replace workers? Different maybe from the
Speaker 2: last big automation wave where many blue collar jobs were
Speaker 2: taken out. This time around, the concern is that artificial
Speaker 2: intelligence will make white collar jobs obsolete. That's one of
Speaker 2: the concerns that's out there.
Speaker 1: It is, And then you wonder, if you've got your
Speaker 1: job at stake, you might perhaps think I might be
Speaker 1: well advised to work a little harder, work longer hours,
Speaker 1: for example, and that might have some very bad impact
Speaker 1: onto your health, healthier family, and maybe even the healthier company.
Speaker 2: This from two workaholics. I can feel it. I can
Speaker 2: feel it. We're trying to justify it. I will say
Speaker 2: the flip side too, is AI might ultimately help us.
Speaker 2: But anyway, we wanted to get some thoughts on how
Speaker 2: we work and overwork on a day that we had
Speaker 2: a lot of news flow. Very very busy with us
Speaker 2: right now is Melissa Associate Professor of Industrial Organizational Psychology
Speaker 2: at the University of Georgia, director of the Healthy Work
Speaker 2: Lab at UGA. She's got a new book out, Never
Speaker 2: Not Working While the always on culture is bad for
Speaker 2: business and how to fix it. She joins us from Athens, Georgia. Melissa,
Speaker 2: nice to have you here. With Jennifer and myself. We
Speaker 2: want to get into the book. But I do wonder
Speaker 2: in your day job and the things that you talk
Speaker 2: about with your students, the role of something like we
Speaker 2: are talking about AI all day. We've been obsessed with
Speaker 2: it because of Nvidia's results. But I wonder how you
Speaker 2: think about it. What are some of the conversations that
Speaker 2: you are having in the classroom and in your Healthy
Speaker 2: Work Lab. Is this a good thing or a bad
Speaker 2: thing or we don't know yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. One thing with AI that
Speaker 3: I find very interesting it's, you know, I'm less concerned
Speaker 3: about it replacing our jobs. I feel like there's always
Speaker 3: going to be a need for humans, but it's also
Speaker 3: making us more efficient. And so one thing that I
Speaker 3: I'm very curious about is with AI, with technology, uh,
Speaker 3: things that are faster to do. Why are we adding
Speaker 3: more to our plate? And you know, why are we
Speaker 3: not leveraging the efficiency of things like AI to work
Speaker 3: smarter instead of longer.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess would an answer there, if you would
Speaker 1: forgive me would an answer? There be competition because you've
Speaker 1: got everyone's putting in there. Everyone's trying to feel their
Speaker 1: way around this new, this new AI world. Everyone's trying
Speaker 1: to work out how they can get a leg up
Speaker 1: on their competition. And so that's not the time when
Speaker 1: you want to see companies start to pull back. But
Speaker 1: I mean, I know this is something that you study,
Speaker 1: and this is you've had a lot to say about it,
Speaker 1: So I mean, what's your response to that kind of
Speaker 1: a view.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one of the common myths is that
Speaker 3: working all the time is going to lead to greater productivity.
Speaker 3: And you know, I understand the need to keep up
Speaker 3: with the competition, but I think we need to think
Speaker 3: of the long game too, because burnout is so prevalent
Speaker 3: now and it's just not sustainable to be working these
Speaker 3: really long hours and not giving ourselves the rest and
Speaker 3: recovery that we need so that we can be sharper
Speaker 3: and more creative I'm and more innovative. I mean, think
Speaker 3: of how tired you are at the end of the day.
Speaker 3: Compared to the beginning of the day. I don't know
Speaker 3: about you, but I do my best writing in the
Speaker 3: morning and I'm sharp, and so, you know, leveraging tools
Speaker 3: like AI to be able to shorten you know, it's
Speaker 3: it's almost like wasted time at the end of the
Speaker 3: day when you're not as productive. So why don't you
Speaker 3: just call it a day then? And also you're improving
Speaker 3: your you know, employee satisfaction and they're going to want
Speaker 3: to stay at the company. So I do think, yes,
Speaker 3: I understand the urge to just keep on going, going, going,
Speaker 3: because that's what everyone else is doing. But maybe you
Speaker 3: think a little bit more strategically and think about the
Speaker 3: long game as well.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is and I think about how I grew
Speaker 2: up to it's just like work harder, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: put in not one hundred percent, but one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty percent into anything you do. Having said that, I
Speaker 2: get what you're saying. And I think coming off of COVID,
Speaker 2: we talked a lot more about balanced work situations. And
Speaker 2: what's interesting is that may play true in a tight
Speaker 2: labor force where companies are worried about losing workers. I
Speaker 2: do wonder as that shifts whether or not employers care
Speaker 2: so much about the work balance. I'm not being critical
Speaker 2: or making, you know, a viewpoint, but you know, employers
Speaker 2: have things that have to get done, and you know
Speaker 2: they're going to be deadlines. What's the right balance? Because
Speaker 2: it does sound like this is an argument or something
Speaker 2: you need to be telling employers, because.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I'm not against hard work. You know,
Speaker 3: I struggle myself with being a work That's partly why
Speaker 3: I wrote the book, and so, you know, I think
Speaker 3: it's about fostering an environment where you are working very
Speaker 3: hard when you're at work, and you have an engaged workforce,
Speaker 3: which has a ton of positive outcomes according to research.
Speaker 3: But you're letting your employees disengage when they leave work,
Speaker 3: and that has been shown to lead to a ton
Speaker 3: of positive outcomes and greater performance. And so it's almost
Speaker 3: like you're leveraging the best of both worlds. I do
Speaker 3: think it's possible, and we can use AI and the
Speaker 3: other you know, in technology to help us accomplish that.
Speaker 1: You know, I wonder if you could talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about the policy space here, because certainly what you
Speaker 1: see for companies in Europe, for government officials. In Europe,
Speaker 1: there's a right to switch off, there's a right not
Speaker 1: to get emailed. It's not necessarily in every country, but
Speaker 1: it's certainly a vibe that you've got over there. And
Speaker 1: you know, here in the United States, do you see
Speaker 1: any similarities anywhere with that culture.
Speaker 3: I'm not seeing that happening here in the US. You know,
Speaker 3: I would love it, but I'm a realist too, and
Speaker 3: so I do think this is going to have to
Speaker 3: be at the company level. And you know, I think
Speaker 3: there are things you can do in your organization to
Speaker 3: have similar policies, even if it's just a pop up
Speaker 3: that you're trying to send an email after hours and
Speaker 3: a pop up occurs and it says, are you sure
Speaker 3: you want to send this at nine pm? Or maybe
Speaker 3: you schedule it for the morning. What's wrong with that?
Speaker 3: Is the deal going to go bad because you didn't
Speaker 3: send an email at ten pm? Maybe? But probably not.
Speaker 3: Things are you know, not as urgent as we tend
Speaker 3: to think they are. And you know, for those dire projects, sure,
Speaker 3: maybe you need to work outside of your normal work hours,
Speaker 3: but I don't think every project necessarily has to be
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: Hey, well, Melissa just about a minute left. He I
Speaker 2: feel like there's a million more questions we could ask you.
Speaker 2: But what's the biggest misconception about working harder longer. We
Speaker 2: all think that's a good thing, but maybe it's not
Speaker 2: necessarily always a good thing. And unfortunately just got about
Speaker 2: thirty seconds.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's just it's a myth that, you know,
Speaker 3: working harder will lead to greater productivity. Workaholics tend to
Speaker 3: think everything is a crisis, and I think it's important
Speaker 3: to think about the big picture and be forward thinking
Speaker 3: instead of backward thinking. And so that's that's my take
Speaker 3: on it.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting point, isn't it. Not everything is a crisis,
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, there's another way to think about that.
Speaker 1: That's a that's a really interesting thing to take away.
Speaker 2: It's a really smart message here, all right, listen, great stuff,
Speaker 2: Glad we got some time with you. Melissa Clark, Associate
Speaker 2: Professor of Industrial organizational Psychology at the University of Georgia,
Speaker 2: just got a new book out, Never Not Working, Why
Speaker 2: the always on culture is bad for business and how
Speaker 2: to fix it. So check it out, everybody. Hey watch
Speaker 2: an Nvidia share still up about seven percent, in the aftermarket.
Speaker 2: But this is Bloomberg