1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Well, folks, we have a classic episode for you this week. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: It's one of our favorite guys, commonly called Doctor Seuss, 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: and we think you will like it. 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: On a log, we think you will like it. With 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: a frog, we think you will like it. Next to 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: a goose. We think you will like it writing on 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 2: a moose. We hope that you'd like it. We hope 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: it's your jam. You can eat it gluten free or 9 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: with ham. 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: This is the story of Doctor Seuss's most famous book, 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: Green Eggs and Ham. By twenty sixteen, it had sold 12 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: over eight million copies. Buddy wrote it on a bet. 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, try it, you might like it. Jump right in. 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the 15 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you for tuning in. 16 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: I am pumped about today's episode. 17 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 2: Are we gonna do it in a box? Are we 18 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 2: going to do it about a fox? Are we gonna 19 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: do it while eating some locks? Are we going to 20 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: do it in a basement beneath Fort Knox? Well, that 21 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 2: sounds like the plot of National Treasure right right? 22 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: Well, this is this is a show that's giving us 23 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: an excuse to talk about I don't know about you, 24 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: my friend. But one of my favorite authors when I 25 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: was growing up is just a we Ben Bowlin. I 26 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: love Shel Silverstein, Doctor Seuss and Stephen King. 27 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: Wow, that's explained so much about how you've turned out. 28 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: Thanks man, Hey, who are you? I'm Noel. It's good 29 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: to see and I'm gonna do it in a hole, 30 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 2: possibly while eating cereal from a bowl. I'm not as 31 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: good at this as Theodora Seuss Geisel. That's right, that's right. 32 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: You know. 33 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: We have to also ask super producer Casey Pegram did 34 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: you read Doctor Seuss as a child? 35 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: Casey, absolutely I did. Yeah, what were some of your 36 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: favorite books? 37 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 3: I'm terrible at remembering anything childhood related. It kind of 38 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 3: all flew out of my brain at some point. But 39 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 3: I know I did. I know I had the books around. 40 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 3: I could not tell you titles. I would probably be 41 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 3: able to identify them if I went and looked at 42 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 3: covers online, but that'd be about it. 43 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,839 Speaker 2: The covers are a big giveaway that that's what gets 44 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: burned into my memory. I don't remember the titles very 45 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: much either, Casey, but lately I've been kind of exploring them, 46 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 2: especially during this research, and it was a real nostalgia 47 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 2: blast from the past. That's redundant. That was good the 48 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 2: nostalgia blast. Nostalgia blast is already a blast from. 49 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: The well if it was a nostalgia blast that happened 50 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: in the past. If you're remembering a time nostalgia blast 51 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: hit you, so like even if it was just twenty 52 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: minutes ago, it still worked. 53 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 2: That's a good point, Ben, Thank you for saving me. 54 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: No No, I got asked before we go any further. 55 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: Did you have one book by Seuss that really like 56 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: stuck out in your brain? 57 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: I do. It was One Fish, Two Fish, Redfish, Bluefish, 58 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,839 Speaker 2: because I distinctly remember that being the first thing where 59 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 2: I was aware of the fact that I could read. 60 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: Oh that's metacognition, yeut, there, But it really is. 61 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: It really is. 62 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: And I might be manufacturing that memory, but it stuck 63 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: with me. I remember being very proud of myself that 64 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: I could read. But I also think it might have 65 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: been some combination of memorization as well, because it was 66 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: read to me, and I think I may have been 67 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: looking at it and reading it from memory and thinking 68 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: that I was actually reading the worst Because I was 69 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: very very little. This is a very early memory. 70 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: And you also have a stunning innate sense of rhythm 71 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: and cadence. 72 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: As does doctor Theodor Suth Keizel, Yes, Geisel, Geisel. 73 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: For the record, my favorite for a long time was 74 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: The butter Battle Book. I thought that thing was an 75 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: epic tale of like tragedy and heartbreak and the human condition. 76 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing that's neat about this guy's books 77 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: is they kind of have these big, lofty themes, like 78 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: the Lora Acts, for example, which is sort of an 79 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: environmentalist look on conservation and like saving the forests and 80 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: how man is like raping and pillaging Mother Earth and 81 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: all that stuff, but not in a particularly heavy handed 82 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: or pedantic way, and in a way that's pretty approachable 83 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: to you know, youngsters or whatever, but still has some 84 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: pretty important messages. 85 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a great point. And one thing, 86 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: one thing that a lot of kids don't know when 87 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: we're growing up and reading Doctor Seuss books is that 88 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: Theodor himself was allegedly not the biggest fan of children, 89 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: but he was a really interesting guy. And I think 90 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: you and I probably had a similar moment later in 91 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: life where we realized that his family originally pronounced the 92 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: name Seuss, as Zoyce like zo Icee yikes, which I 93 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: think is a great word. Zeikes is what I would say. Yeah, 94 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: he's interesting for a lot of reasons. He got his 95 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: start working in like advertising as a cartoonist, and there's 96 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: actually some rarely problematic cartoons you can dig up that 97 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: he did for It's like a mosquito spray called like 98 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: ze or something like that, or like bleep, I don't know, 99 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: but it's it's like all of these kind of like 100 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: African jungle scenes with his very recognizable elephant. It looks 101 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: like something out of one of his books, only it's 102 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: got a lot of like natives depicted in that horrible 103 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: way that you see in early you know, Disney animations 104 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: or Warner Brothers cartoons that are now considered completely embarrassing 105 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: to those companies that are responsible for all this, like 106 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: classic children's entertainment. 107 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: The same was true for Guys Soul, and he also 108 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: did some propaganda around the Japanese with some pretty nasty 109 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: depictions of those folks during war during World War two exactly. 110 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was nothing if not prolific, But we did 111 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: feel would be remiss on our part if we did 112 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: not include the less than wonderful, whimsical aspects of his life. 113 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: You know what I mean. 114 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: He was a great cartoonist and a great writer, but 115 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: still a person, and you might be surprised to learn 116 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: the process that he used to write a lot of 117 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: these books. The guy was so prolific. He has what 118 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: over forty children's books. Yeah, and that's not counting any 119 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: of his advertisement stuff. That's not counting the short lived 120 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: comic strip he did before called Hedgy I believe. But 121 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: the weird thing is, while we all kind of, I 122 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: think naturally want to have this romanticized idea of a 123 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: guy who just wakes up in a very bright, pastel 124 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: cartoony house and says, what wonderful lessons will I teach 125 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: children today, that's not the case. In fact, there was 126 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: a lot of calculation that went into the way he 127 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: wrote books. His first successful children's book was called Cat 128 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: and the Hat. And the story about Cat and the 129 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: Hat is really surprising. It starts with a guy named 130 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: John Hershey who was a big time journalist and in 131 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, when writing in Life magazine, he put 132 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: out an article called why do students bog down? 133 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: On first r? 134 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: A local committee sheds light on national problem colon reading 135 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: that was colon the punctuation mark, not reading. 136 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: Colon's And is that the one that was kind of 137 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: a backlash against those super dull Dick and Jane primer books. Yes, 138 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 2: just the same, which is like see Dick walk, see 139 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 2: Jane walk too. Yeah, there is a dog. It is 140 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: spot watch Spot walk to Jane. Uh huh, stuff like that. 141 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, because they had a more rigid system of introducing 142 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: vocabulary words to children. And after reading this article, the 143 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: director of Houghton Mifflin, the publishing company, the director of 144 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: Houghton Mifflin's educational division, a guy named William Spaulding, got 145 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: Theodore Geisel in the room and he said, look, I 146 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: need you to write a story that first graders actually like. 147 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: The actual quote is I need you to write a 148 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: story that first graders can't put down. And then he 149 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: put on some weird restrictions. 150 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: I love this. 151 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, this part was really interesting to me too. So 152 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: there was a list that Spaulding had, which I guess 153 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: came from the Educational Division, of three hundred and forty 154 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 1: eight words that were selected from a standard first grader's 155 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: vocabulary list, and Spalding said Okay, THEO, you've got to 156 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: write this book, but you can only use words from 157 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: this list, and you can't use them all. You can 158 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: only use what two hundred and twenty five exactly. 159 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think originally he wanted the story to 160 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: be about like a queen cat and a king cat. Yeah, 161 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: but queen wasn't on the list, so he had to 162 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: like adjust, and then he realized that hat rhymed with 163 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 2: cat and that was a good starting point and the 164 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: rest is history. 165 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: Which, yeah, it took him nine months to write this book, primarily, 166 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: I believe because of that word restriction, and according to 167 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: the story, he didn't quite hit two twenty five. 168 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 2: It was still a little bit longer, right, Yeah, I 169 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: think he, you know, if we're going to call that 170 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: a bet, then he sort of failed the exact parameters 171 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 2: that were given to him, but he came damn close. 172 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, two hundred and thirty six words. And I get 173 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: the feeling this was almost more of a mandate from 174 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: his boss. I love thinking about what the original story 175 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: with the king cat and the Queen cat would have been, 176 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: because now I see this picture of Theodore Geisel like 177 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: pulling his hair out, gnashing his teeth and trying to 178 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: figure out how to depict this cat as somehow regal 179 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: or kingly, and then the best he to come up 180 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: with is all right, he's got a hat because we 181 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: can't use crown. 182 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like that's what happened. That's probably true. 183 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: That's a good point. And of course, you know when 184 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: I say the rest is history, I mean like literary history. 185 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: It's sold a million copies, like right off the rip, 186 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: I think in the first couple of years, and it 187 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: was out in print, right yeah, and he was able 188 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 2: to quit his day job as an ad guy an admin, 189 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: you know, and went on to become a whimsical children's 190 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: book writer full time. Zeyce, that's my new exclamation. Loved it. 191 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: That's quite good. 192 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: I also like, what was the name of that pesticide company? 193 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: Was his z to or was it something you know? 194 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: I actually looked at it. It's called flit flit. Yeah, 195 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 2: like you know bugs, they flipped and this is what 196 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: you scored at him to make them stop flitting forever. 197 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 2: Stop the flit. 198 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm feeling these catchphrases so much, 199 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: my friend, but we know that a lot of people 200 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: love the way Zeyce wrote, and so you know what, 201 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna call him doctor Seuss for this show 202 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: for our purposes here. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. Okay, it 203 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: just feels more comfortable, you know what I mean. 204 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 2: We all know who doctor Zeus say is right, but 205 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: this doctor Zeis guy. Yeah, it sounds like some sort 206 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: of mad scientists. So he does. 207 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: So this guy's career takes off. He becomes a prolific 208 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: author of children's books that are loved around the world, 209 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: especially the English speaking world obviously. And then in nineteen sixty, 210 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: just about three years after Cat and the Hats come out, 211 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: he has a strange conversation with a guy named Bennett Surf, 212 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: the co founder of Random House. 213 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 2: He does it very similar to the conversation he had 214 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: with mister Hershey that kicked off his career, you know, 215 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 2: in such a huge way. With Kat and the Hat. 216 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: This guy really ups the Annie here in terms of 217 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 2: what that first bet I guess or challenge would have been. 218 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 2: And he challenges SEUs to write a children's book that 219 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 2: uses fifty unique words or less unique being individual. 220 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: Words, which sounds like if you're just thinking about this 221 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: initially at first, blush, This could sound like, hey, that's 222 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: enough words for a children's book, it's not, because what 223 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: they mean by unique words is that let's say if 224 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: you had a word that was just I'll pick one admiral, sure, right, 225 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: then you can use that one word as many times 226 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: as you would like. 227 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: Right. It's like that vocabulary list we talked about earlier, 228 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: and I think you know it was around two hundred 229 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: and sixty words for cat and the hat. So that's 230 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: and that's a pretty relatively straightforward, sing songy, kind of 231 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: like simple language book. So that this is like really 232 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 2: taking it to the next level, because to use fifty 233 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: words and still have it ay tell a story and 234 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: not just be completely just see Dick Rudd right exactly. 235 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: So he took this as a challenge and he delivered. 236 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: I propose that we play a game with the listeners, 237 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: nol because we have this list. We did the fifty words, okay, 238 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: so let's let's read out some of these words, not 239 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: not all fifty, and let's like skip the ones that 240 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: automatically give it away, and let's see if you can 241 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: guess which book this is. Okay, are you ready, folks? 242 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: R A am and anywhere? Are b boat box car 243 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: could dark do eat here house? I if in let like, 244 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: I think that's pretty hard to guess. We didn't have 245 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: any really juicy. 246 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: And there You're not going to finish? Is that it? Oh? No, 247 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 2: do you want to do? You want to do the 248 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 2: rest of them? Are you skipping the word green? Is 249 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: that in there? Oh? Yeah, casey on the case Wow, spoiler, 250 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: I love it. No, we hadn't gotten there yet, but yes, 251 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: in fact, green eggs and ham are all in this list. 252 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 2: And that's ham like the food, not ham like hard 253 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 2: as am off. 254 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: Right. That was a little bit before Susan's time, or 255 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: maybe that was part of his uncollected work. 256 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 2: I actually read somewhere that he coined the word crunk, 257 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: did he? But it didn't mean the same thing as 258 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: it means in the parlance of today. Oh that's so cool. 259 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: But it appeared first in print in a doctor Seys's book. 260 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: This book that he wrote on a bet is known 261 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: today as green eggs and ham. And I was thinking, 262 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: there's a there's a neat coincidence here when he has 263 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: this conversation with Ben at Surf when they make that 264 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: bet for what fifty dollars? Right, it works out to 265 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: a dollar a word which I thought was I don't 266 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: know if that's on purpose, but it's pretty neat. 267 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 2: And I think a fifty dollars bet back then would 268 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: have been a couple hundred bucks now, right, three hundred 269 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: bucks maybe. 270 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, a little close, maybe a little closer to four 271 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: oh okay, but yeah, so it's it's still a significant 272 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: amount of money, but to this guy who's a best 273 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: selling off now, it's not like a make or break 274 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: thing as far as his bank accounts can do. 275 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: We know where this falls in the Doctor Seuss bibliography. 276 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: Is this sort of mid career. 277 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: This was since nineteen sixty when the bet occurs, So 278 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: that's right after that's three years after Cat and the Hat. 279 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: Oh okay, this is relatively early lat koreer Y's for sure. 280 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: And so when he writes this book, we can only 281 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: imagine that it's a little less of a laborious process 282 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: because he's already been through it before with Cat in 283 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: the Hat. 284 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, except this is like a little bit more challenging. Right, 285 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: This has been a parent like, you know, even limiting 286 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: his verbal palette even more. Right. 287 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, So we mentioned that this has a One of 288 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: the brilliant things about this book is it does actually 289 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: have a plot that you can follow, you know what 290 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: I mean, there's some tension in there. What's the plot. 291 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: Our protagonist is named Sam i Am. 292 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: He is Sam Sam he is well yeah, and then 293 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 2: there's him right, and then there's this other character who 294 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: is who goes nameless and he's sort of the sad 295 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: sack kind of fellow who Sam keeps trying to force 296 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: him to eat green eggs and ham. And he proceeds 297 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: to go through these various scenarios. As our buddy the 298 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: quizzer would say, there we go, and the guy just 299 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: keeps he's like running away from him. It's actually kind 300 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 2: of a stalker situation because the nameless character is literally 301 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 2: trying to escape this Sam i Am who keeps popping 302 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: up with green eggs and ham, you know. And then 303 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 2: he's like, you know, would you do it on a house, 304 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: a car, a tree, with all these different things with 305 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: a mouse? Would a mouse change the scene? And exactly exactly, 306 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, there there's you know, 307 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 2: they're surrounded by the carnage that's been caused by this 308 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: dude literally trying to run for his life from this 309 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 2: psychotic Sam i am character. I mean really is if 310 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: you look back up the book now, Sam I am 311 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: is very sinister. He goes hard on, he goes am, 312 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 2: yeah he really does. Yeah, and green eggs. And at 313 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: the end the moral of the story is the nameless 314 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 2: grumpy dude eats the green eggs and ham and he 315 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 2: likes it. 316 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: Right, Sam, if you will let me be, I will 317 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: try them. You will see. And then he tries them 318 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: and say, I like green eggs and ham. 319 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 2: I do. 320 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: I like them, Sam, i am. And then it goes 321 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: on the refrain flips and now he's talking, I want 322 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: to do it in all those places. Bring the mouse, please? 323 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 2: A fox? You say, probably this green eggs and ham 324 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: with anything, But I know you can only be a 325 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: fox and mouse. And what else a goat? A goat? 326 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird because if you look at the way. 327 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: One thing that's really impressive about this is if you 328 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: look at just the lyrics or the poetry itself typed out, 329 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: it's four pages long, which surprised me because it's four 330 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: pages fifty words. 331 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: It's tough. It's all about placement. It's like a comic book. 332 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 2: I mean a lot of these things are like graphic novels, 333 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 2: and the text is very much incorporated into the design. 334 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: And you know, let's not forget Sus wrote the text 335 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 2: and he drew all the images, and he's single handedly 336 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 2: responsible for creating these worlds which are very uniquely him. 337 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 2: You know, I think he's a pretty interesting artist, kind 338 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 2: of a renaissance man in that way. I also think 339 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 2: it's funny that both Ham and Goat both have modern 340 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 2: day acronym equivalents. And krunk, you know, I think he 341 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: was onto something. I think he was too. 342 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: We should do a deep dive read into the works 343 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: of doctor Seuss. We should also mention, by the way 344 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: that yes, doctor Seuss did succeed. This wasn't like a 345 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: cat and a hat thing where he went a little 346 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: over his word count. He managed to make a coherent 347 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 1: story with only fifty words. He turned it around really quickly. 348 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: It was published on August twelfth, nineteen sixty, and it 349 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: became his best selling book. You know, it's purposely meant 350 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: for beginning readers, right, But there is one one twist 351 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: to the story that I find hilarious just because of 352 00:18:58,680 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: its petty nature. 353 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: There's a couple of good twists I want to hear yours. Okay, Well, 354 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 2: here's one. I think. 355 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,959 Speaker 1: This is the question that's on a lot of our 356 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: minds right now. What happened to the bet? It turns 357 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: out Bennett Sarah didn't pay up at all. 358 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 2: What a jerk. And he was a co founder of 359 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 2: Random House. It's not like he was hurting for the scratch. 360 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 2: Did they publish the book? Yes, yes they did, old 361 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 2: Random House and the Living Books Company. So it stands 362 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: to reason that this dude not only didn't pay up, 363 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: he benefited from it. So he's the double cheapskate. Yeah, 364 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 2: massive benefits. What's one of your twists. There's a couple 365 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 2: of other good ones. One of them is that there 366 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 2: were some pretty bad reviews for this book, specifically from 367 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 2: some children's librarians. The New York Public Library actually had 368 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 2: a card catalog of hand typed children's book reviews by 369 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 2: their librarian staff. And here is a choice exerpt from 370 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 2: one of these reviews. Sam I am won't eat green 371 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: eggs and ham until after many pages of learning words, 372 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: he tries them. Book is typical of Seus's late period, 373 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 2: and his output, being as prolific as it is. It's 374 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 2: alarming to think of the onslaught that can ensue if 375 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: these books are continually added to the collection. This is 376 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 2: the best line. There must be better ways of teaching 377 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: a child to read than this not recommended. 378 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: I saw that one too. It was it was strange 379 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: because we see this kind of harsh reviewing repeated. It's 380 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: a cyclical thing in children's literature, right, like Cloudy with 381 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: a Chance of Meatballs also got some shade thrown at it. 382 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: I think there was an issue with it being like 383 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: not vegan friendly. I it's like more of like our 384 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 2: PC police kind of situation that we're living in right now. 385 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: There's a good one here, Ben, that you told me 386 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: about where a federal judge actually referenced this work in 387 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 2: an opinion, an official judicial opinion. Yes it's true. 388 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, a US District court judge 389 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: named James Muirhead received a hard boiled egg in the 390 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: mail from an inmate, and the inmate was sending this 391 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,959 Speaker 1: hard oiled egg through the post to protest his diet 392 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: while he was incarcerated. The judge ordered the egg destroyed 393 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: with the following with the following language in his court order, 394 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: I do not like eggs in the file. I do 395 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: not like them in any style. I will not take 396 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: them fried or boiled. I will not take them poached 397 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: or broiled. I will not take them soft or scrambled. 398 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: Despite an argument, well rambled, no fan, I am of 399 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: the egg at hand. Destroy that egg today, today, today, 400 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: I say, without delay, this judge must have had. 401 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 2: A long week. He's a real character. You know what. 402 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: We could also do an episode on bizarre judge rulings, 403 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: because there have been judges who respond with poetry, sometimes 404 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: in very serious situations, and there have been judges who, 405 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: because they have complete jurisdiction, have imposed some really weird, 406 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: unorthodox penalties for crimes. 407 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. Remember that Curb Your Enthusiasm episode where Larry has 408 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 2: to wear the sandwich board with the like I steal 409 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 2: forks from restaurants or whatever, a scarlet letter punishment. They 410 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: call that. That's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. 411 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: And this is just one aspect of the tremendous influence 412 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: that Green eggs and ham specifically has had on modern culture. 413 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: I think now it's in sixty different formats. It's in 414 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,959 Speaker 1: a multitude of languages, which confuses me because surely there 415 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: would be some languages where it's more difficult to do 416 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: that story just because of sentence structure or something. 417 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 2: Right, Oh yeah, it does seem that way. Well, still 418 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 2: they pulled it off. 419 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: I would love to have a copy of Green Eggs 420 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: and Ham in a different language because it would help 421 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: me learn that language pretty easily, right, or. 422 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 2: Fifty words of it at least? Yeah, wow, Yeah, you 423 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 2: would have the like a first grader's grasp perhaps, now 424 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 2: last kindergarten maybe. And if you so desired, you could 425 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 2: potentially use the works of Doctor Zeus to learn Latin, 426 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 2: even though it's sort of incorrectly said that Latin is 427 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 2: a dead language. But you can definitely find different books 428 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 2: that are translated into Latin. But here's the thing. It's 429 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 2: hard to translate this kind of stylized writing like Doctor 430 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 2: Seuss into a language like that, isn't that. Yeah? 431 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: According to Terrence Tunberg, who's been teaching Latin for decades 432 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: and decades, green Eggs and Ham was very difficult to translate. 433 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: He and his spouse Jennifer, had already translated several children's 434 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: books into Latin, and they tackled Green Eggs and Ham 435 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: with the title being can you help me out with 436 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: the Latin here? 437 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 2: And oh boy, uh, variant ova verant parana with lots 438 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: of exclamation marks. Yeah. 439 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: The Tunbergs have also translated other Doctor Seuss books specific 440 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: but they said this wouldn't was one of the toughest 441 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: because of the simplified language and the short length. But 442 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: it's worth doing because it gives Latin a more contemporary 443 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: feel and it feels less like a dead language exactly. 444 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: And that is the story of Green Eggs and Ham 445 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: so far. However, that is not the end of these 446 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Seuss facts. We found several. Some of them are darker, 447 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,719 Speaker 1: some of them are just kind of hilarious. Yeah, Like 448 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: did you hear about how he's traumatized by Teddy Roosevelt? 449 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, it did. Ben. I had to do with some 450 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 2: money he got from his grandfather, isn't that right? Yeah? 451 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: World War One was in full swing and Doctor Seuss 452 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: was a boy scout and he went door to door 453 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: and eventually, because his grandfather bought one thousand dollars worth 454 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,959 Speaker 1: of war bonds, he became one of the most successful 455 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: war bond salesmen in his town. And they were brought 456 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: on stage, him and nine other boy scouts to the 457 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: municipal auditorium. And who was there to present the award. 458 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt himself, the President of the United States. 459 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was there to officiate this ceremony to pana 460 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 2: metal on these plucky young lads and old Teddy Seuss 461 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 2: was the last one in line to receive this major award. 462 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 2: But it turns out that they didn't have enough medals. 463 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: And then Roosevelt gets to him and he doesn't have anything. 464 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 2: He just looks over at the people on stage. It's like, 465 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: who the hell is this kid? Get him out of here, 466 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 2: and they trundle him off stage and he gets nothing. 467 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: It's like Willie Walker style. Man. Wow. 468 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: For the rest of his life he had a crippling 469 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: fear of crowds, and he actually skipped a lot of 470 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: speaking engagements when he was a famous author because he 471 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: was terrified they would be publicly humiliated. 472 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: Again. Well, there's also not a lot of interviews with him, 473 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: like video interviews with him that you can even find. 474 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: Right, let's see what else is. His first book was 475 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: The Complete and Unabridged pocket Book of Boners. 476 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 2: Wow, is it just like a visual compendium of different boners. 477 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 2: It was. 478 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: This is back when a boner just meant an error, 479 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: Like that was a real bone. Oh okay, okay, So 480 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: the book was it was a compilation, but it was 481 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: a compilation of lists of silly, incorrect answers to questions 482 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: given by children. It did have a bunch of risque 483 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: jokes and illustrations. He knew the other meaning of boners. 484 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 2: You know, he did. 485 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: He was a bodie boy. He was, he was, And 486 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: I guess you could find a copy of that. It 487 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: first published in nineteen thirty one, and New York Times 488 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: called it hilarious. 489 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 2: I love sixcinct. New York Times reviews like that. They 490 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 2: usually so overly verbose. Have you ever seen Halloweens Grinch Night, Ben, Yeah, 491 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 2: I love it. It's so trippy, it's so cool. It's awesome, 492 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 2: and it's very psychedelic and hetty and strange. So if 493 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 2: you haven't seen that one, it's a quick one to 494 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 2: watch around Halloween time. It's actually pretty spooky. This little 495 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 2: kid and there's all these creatures, and Halloween is Grench 496 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 2: nine and the hacking sacks are yowling. We din't even 497 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 2: talk about that. He invents such great creature names. I love. 498 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned this because I have a little 499 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: bit of a bone to pick with this. I love 500 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: Halloween is Grench Knight. However, I think in some recent 501 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: years Doctor Seuss's good name has been besmirched with terrible 502 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: film adaptations such as The Cat and the Hat. Oh 503 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: with Mike Myers. Yeah, gross, grown, I know, And I 504 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: used to love Mike Myers when I was a kid. 505 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: You probably did too. With Wayne's World Sired Live all 506 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: that stuff, Austin Powers. But apparently behind the scenes, and 507 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: we have n't. I haven't met the guy at least, 508 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: so I can't confirm or deny this, But apparently behind 509 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: the scenes story is he's a real pill to work. 510 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 2: I have heard this. You've heard it him, especially like 511 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 2: on Trek or whatever, like, yeah, yeah, no, I've definitely 512 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 2: heard that, which is a shame. You know what else 513 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 2: is quite bad? What's that how the Grinch Stole Christmas? 514 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 2: It was like a short little little book and a 515 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: short little cartoon and they try to stretch it into 516 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 2: like a two hour movie. It was a great cartoon also, 517 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? I don't know, It's just 518 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 2: I wish they would stop. 519 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: Are we Does this mean that we're getting old? Isn't 520 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: there another Grinch? Reboot coming out there as we're recording this. 521 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's animator. It's like it's like, you know, 522 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 2: CGI or whatever. Oh. He also invented the word nerd. Yep, 523 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 2: didn't he he did. 524 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: This guy is a real wordsmith. So one last thing 525 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: I would like to contribute. I want to see your 526 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: opinion on this nool and we want to hear your opinion. 527 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous historians. Apparently doctor Seuss had dabbled in erotica. Excuse me, erotica? 528 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: Oh what I thought you said? 529 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 2: He had contributed art to something called The Bedroom Companion 530 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 2: that had a comic showing. Uh. 531 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: Well, let's just say he contributed to that to that book, 532 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: and as a condition of his contract later on in life, 533 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: he said, Okay, i'll write children's books for you only 534 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,959 Speaker 1: if you let me write an adult book first. The 535 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: Seven Lady Godivas a story about seven naked women. 536 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're writing on one of his you know, 537 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 2: like signature, kind of nondescript beasts, like it's not it's 538 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 2: not a horse, it's not a hippo. I don't know, 539 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: it's it's got traits of all of those. 540 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: It's probably got a name like a barkernof or something exactly. 541 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: There you go, Ben, and it is, you know, a stride. 542 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 2: This creature is uh two three four sixty seven naked 543 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 2: women of all shapes and sizes. Yeah, in his defense 544 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: of all shapes and sizes. Here's the thing, Why do 545 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 2: we need to defend them? This is this is delightful. 546 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: Well, the book flopped and he was kind of uh, 547 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: he was kind of peet about it because he had 548 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: to settle for a career as a children's writer. This 549 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: is a quote from doctor Seuss. Okay, it's not us say, 550 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: it's a quote from him. He said, I tried to 551 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: draw the sexiest babes I could, but they came out 552 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: looking absurd. 553 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 2: Well, what the what is it? They look like doctor 554 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 2: Seus's characters? What did he think? There's nothing sexy about them. 555 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 2: They've all got like who hair, they're all hooviy and 556 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 2: yeah big time. Well you can't say the guy wasn't interesting. 557 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 2: When did he pass? Ben? 558 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: Doctor Zeuss actually lived a very long time. He did 559 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: not pass away until September twenty fourth, nineteen ninety one. 560 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: He was eighty seven years old. 561 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: I remember that, I remember when it happened. I mean 562 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 2: I was very young, but I definitely distinctly remember the 563 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 2: death of doctor Zeuss. 564 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: You know who else another personal legend of ours who 565 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: passed away recently, stan Lee. It's true, all right, p 566 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: stan You know it's it's strange because I'm sure that 567 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: he'll still be in cameos for a few more movies 568 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: because they must have filmed a bunch of I. 569 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 2: Guess they would have had to. Yeah, it makes sense 570 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 2: doing a batch. 571 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: And this reminds me he was in his nineties, right, Yeah, 572 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: he did look great and he also growing up as 573 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: a kid who didn't have a ton of friends, I 574 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: think stan Lee taught me a ton about reading and 575 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: really added to my vocabulary, you know what I mean. 576 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: He's the guy who brought back excelsior. 577 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. I keep saying that. I don't know what that means. 578 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 2: It's like excellent, Oh okay, got it. There were a 579 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 2: lot of tributes to him when he passed away, and 580 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 2: everyone was saying excelsior. I thought it was some sort 581 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 2: of stomach medicine it's used to. 582 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: I guess it means that something is of superior quality, 583 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: got it? Like a little more flashy way of saying 584 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: grade a number one. But the reason I'm bringing up 585 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: stan Lee here, Noel, is because you and I made 586 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: a mandate and we we got a kind of a 587 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: bumpy start. Our mandate was to recommend comic books. Remember, 588 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: we did do that. 589 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 2: We did do that, We did say that, and we 590 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 2: kind of you know, this is a perfect episode to 591 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 2: do that in because I would argue that Sus is 592 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: kind of a graphic novel in some ways. I would agree, 593 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 2: I would agree. What do you dig in these days? 594 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 2: These days? I'm digging some. 595 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: Okay, I've been really into some horror comics because you know, 596 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: it's always kind of Halloween in my heart. And there's 597 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: a comic called Regression, which is terrifying, not for children, 598 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: it's about reincarnation. And then there's another comic series that's 599 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: complete called The Clean Room, which is about aliens. Or 600 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: maybe something different to say anymore would be to do 601 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: you a disservice coold. 602 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 2: Have you had a chance to check out Nameless? Nameless? Yes? Yeah, 603 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: yeah yeah. Nameless was the one shot four issues right, yes, 604 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 2: by Grant Morrison, who I'm always in love with everything 605 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: he does. I'm just really trippy out there, existential dread 606 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 2: almost he kind of veers into love crafty and territory, 607 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 2: and this one is no exception. This one's about like 608 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 2: space madness and just like demonic possession and narcissism and 609 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 2: all kinds of crazy stuff doorways to other dimensions. But 610 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 2: it's a tight little story and the art is insane, 611 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 2: insanely not for the feint of heart. 612 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, not only is not for children, I would say 613 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: it's not for you if you're already feeling a little bit, 614 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: you know, less than good. 615 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 2: It's agreed. It's a bit of a bummer. I'm so 616 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 2: glad you read that one man. 617 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: That's one of those that I keep buying copies of 618 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: and I keep giving them away. 619 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a hardcover of it. And just the 620 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: art is just alone is fantastic. So we have met 621 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 2: our mandate for this episode. We talked about a crazy, 622 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 2: weird children's book, Guy recommended some comics, had a good 623 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 2: time learning the origins of the word crunk, and. 624 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: Nerd invented a new phrase to yell out and exclamation 625 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: zoice soice. 626 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: It's also kind of like noise noise choice noy soyce. 627 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: And we hope that you enjoyed this episode even half 628 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: as much as as we enjoyed exploring this story with you. 629 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: That's all for today. Stay tuned for our next episode, 630 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: when we examine beer, A lot of beer, A whole 631 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: lot of beer, like a dangerous amounts of beer. 632 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:15,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 633 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: In the meantime, thanks of course to our super producer 634 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram, Thanks to our research associate Gabe, Thanks. 635 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 2: To Alex Williams our Pal who composed our theme, and 636 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 2: thanks to you Ben for being a dapper and intelligent 637 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 2: co host. 638 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: As always, thanks man, I recently did my laundry. That's 639 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: probably probably way it smell fresh and clean, my man. 640 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 2: Thank you. No, you're welcome. Goodbye. Everyone. For more podcasts 641 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 642 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows.