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Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. We're going to

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Speaker 2: the vault. This episode originally aired on May nineteenth, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two, and it was called Creature with the Crystal Skin.

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Speaker 2: I think this was about animals with transparent outer layers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this one was a lot of fun, so

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Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert.

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Speaker 2: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're going to

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Speaker 2: be talking about a biological topic which has fascinated me

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Speaker 2: for a while ever since I was reading about a

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Speaker 2: family of frogs that I'm going to come back to

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Speaker 2: in a bit. And this is the idea of transparency

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Speaker 2: or translucency in animals, animals that have clear or at

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Speaker 2: least translucent skin or other body parts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and just thinking about this topic brought me back

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Speaker 1: made me think about some stories that I probably haven't

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Speaker 1: read in about twenty years now, but the tales of

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Speaker 1: Fritz Lieber, a genre ryder who lived nineteen ten through

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two. A fun note, he was the son

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Speaker 1: of actor Fritz Lieber, so he's technically a junior to

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Speaker 1: his senior. Fritz Lieber Senior was in films like nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty three's Phantom of the Opera starring Claude Rains, and

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Speaker 1: then Fritz Lieber Junior's son, Justin Lieber, was a philosopher

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Speaker 1: and a sci fi author in his own right.

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Speaker 2: I think at some point I just popped open his

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Speaker 2: Wikipedia page and I saw there was a top line

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Speaker 2: reference to him also being, in addition to being like

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Speaker 2: a sword and sorcery author and science fiction author, a

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Speaker 2: chess expert. And that was one of those things where

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Speaker 2: I was like, is that real or is that just

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Speaker 2: like something that the author themselves or someone associated with

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Speaker 2: them kind of snuck in there.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not as as up on the

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Speaker 1: full Fritz Lieber biography there, but he wrote a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff, various genre works. Some of his stories were

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Speaker 1: even were also adapted into I think like a couple

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Speaker 1: of episodes of Night Gallery back in the day. But

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Speaker 1: the closest, the thing that's closest to my heart, the

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Speaker 1: material that I'm familiar with are these stories he wrote

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Speaker 1: about these two characters, Fofford and the Gray Mouser. So

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Speaker 1: this is your sort of iconic adventuring duo, and he's

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Speaker 1: these stories helped make it iconic. You have a pair,

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Speaker 1: a barbarian and a rogue and they get into all

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Speaker 1: manner of adventures. These were These were very popular stories.

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Speaker 1: I think they had an influence on the development of

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Speaker 1: dungeons and dragons. And they hold a pretty well too well.

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Speaker 2: If it's a barbarian in a rogue, that sounds like

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Speaker 2: Conan and SUBATAI.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, very much of that vein. So they're

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Speaker 1: great fun. They're always encountering various enemies and mage and

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Speaker 1: magical creatures. And in one work in particular, I believe

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Speaker 1: this is The Swords of Lankhmer from nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 1: they encounter gules. Now I love goules as they appear

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Speaker 1: in various other works of fiction, these guls are rather different,

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Speaker 1: and I think when I first read Fritz Leiber's gules,

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Speaker 1: I was a little I wasn't that into them. I

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Speaker 1: was like, ah, this is a little too different from

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Speaker 1: what I'm used to. I just want bone chewing pallid

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Speaker 1: humanoids because he takes the idea in a rather different direction.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so your standard gul is just a sort of

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Speaker 2: deathly looking humanoid who hangs out in graveyards and eats

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Speaker 2: grave flesh, right right.

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Speaker 1: These gules have a translucent anatomy. Essentially, they just look

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Speaker 1: like a walking skeleton because all of the soft tissues

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Speaker 1: in their bodies are transparent. So the only thing you

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Speaker 1: can actually see is the skeleton, unless like the light

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Speaker 1: is just right, because you know, it's not true and

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Speaker 1: it's not magical invisibility. It's supposed to be translucent tissue

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Speaker 1: based invisibility.

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Speaker 2: So you would only see the skeleton in most cases,

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Speaker 2: though there is more than the skeleton. They've got some fleshy, soft,

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Speaker 2: squishy bits, but those just let the light pass right through.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everything is see through except for the skeleton. So

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Speaker 1: I actually just want to read a little bit from

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Speaker 1: the Swords of Lackmar from nineteen sixty eight. After an

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Speaker 1: instant shock, Fawford realized that these must be ghoules, whose

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Speaker 1: flesh and inner organs he had heard with much skepticism,

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Speaker 1: but now no longer were transparent, except when the skin

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Speaker 1: became salily or Rosalie translucent on the genital organs or

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Speaker 1: on the lops and small breasts of their women. It

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Speaker 1: was said also that they ate only flesh human by preference,

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Speaker 1: and that it was strange, indeed, to watch the raw

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Speaker 1: gobbits they gulped, course down and churn within the bars

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Speaker 1: of their ribs, gradually turning to mush and fading from

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Speaker 1: sight as their sightless blood assimilated and transformed the food.

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Speaker 1: Granting that a mere normal man might ever have the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to watch ghules feast without becoming a supply of

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Speaker 1: gobbits himself.

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Speaker 4: That is some pros.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was a good, good writer. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun and whimsy too. So the Ghules in

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Speaker 1: this story, they describe themselves as being crystal fleshed, and

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Speaker 1: they see it as their sort of sacred responsibility to

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Speaker 1: consume the flesh of say, human beings, because our flesh

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Speaker 1: is murkier, you know, it's not that's translucent purity. So

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Speaker 1: when they eat it, they eat our flesh, it eventually

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Speaker 1: becomes translucent, It becomes crystal inside of them. There's a

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Speaker 1: female Ghul that pops up in these stories that I

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Speaker 1: believe of Fawford actually ends up falling for after a while.

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Speaker 1: And she also has a great story about ghoul romance. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: gool romance. But there's a bit where she's talking about

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Speaker 1: like the differences between between ghules and humans, and she

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Speaker 1: tells him bones are beautiful, they are made to be seen.

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Speaker 1: And there's another part where Fauford is asking questions about

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Speaker 1: what's it like to be a ghoul and he picks

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Speaker 1: up on a bit of a scientific critique that often

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Speaker 1: comes up when discussing things like H. G. Wells Invisible Man.

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Speaker 1: He says, well, how can you see anything if light

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Speaker 1: passes right through you? He asked her if ghules happen

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Speaker 1: to see with the inside of the back of their skulls,

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Speaker 1: and she responds, quote, look closely into my eyes, no,

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Speaker 1: without getting between them and the fire. Can you see

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Speaker 1: a small rainbow in each That's where the light is

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Speaker 1: refracted to the seeing part of my brain, and a

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Speaker 1: very tiny real image formed there.

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Speaker 2: I love alternative visual anatomy.

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Speaker 4: That's great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that he made sure to actually throw

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Speaker 1: that in there to address how his gules see anything.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, like I said, when I first read of

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Speaker 1: these creatures, I was like, oh, this is too different.

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Speaker 1: These are not gouls I can really get behind. But now,

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Speaker 1: as we're about to jump into the discussion of some

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Speaker 1: amazing natural world organisms that have various levels of translucency

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Speaker 1: to their bodies, I'm looking back on Fritz Lieber's ghules

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, these are amazing. These ideas of these translucent,

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Speaker 1: fleshed beings like jumping into battle with their axes, and

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Speaker 1: to everyone on the other side, they just look like

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Speaker 1: skeletons because that's the only part that isn't see through.

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Speaker 4: That is great.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, I guess the first example of a real

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Speaker 2: animal I want to talk about today a group of

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Speaker 2: animals actually known as the glass frogs. And a little

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Speaker 2: bit of terminology distinction. I guess we've already said these words.

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Speaker 2: But transparency versus translucency if you're not familiar, transparency you

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Speaker 2: can think of as being clear like glass, pretty much

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Speaker 2: allowing all light to pass through, whereas translucency you can

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Speaker 2: think of like frosted glass, is allowing a lot of

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Speaker 2: light to pass through, but not as much as a

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Speaker 2: total clarity.

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Speaker 1: You'll find that these are those sometimes used interchangeably, even

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Speaker 1: sometimes in scientific papers.

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Speaker 4: Though, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: The so called glass frogs comprise many different species, but

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Speaker 2: they all belong to the family Centralinidae, which is found

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Speaker 2: in regions throughout Central and South America. These are mostly

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Speaker 2: arboreal creatures, meaning they live in trees, often in rainforests,

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Speaker 2: and especially near sources of fresh water. So if you

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Speaker 2: want to find a glass frog, most of the time

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Speaker 2: a good place to look is like on leaves overhanging

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Speaker 2: the bank of a jungle stream. But if you were

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Speaker 2: to go out looking for one of these creatures, you

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Speaker 2: might have a bit of difficulty difficulty finding the frog,

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Speaker 2: even if you're looking right at the leaf where it's perched,

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Speaker 2: because glass frogs can blend in very well with foliage

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Speaker 2: and Rabbi attached a couple of pictures for you to

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Speaker 2: look at here of various green and yellow species of

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Speaker 2: glass frogs perched on a leaf. It's especially good to

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Speaker 2: look at like a leaf that's sort of lit from behind,

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Speaker 2: and the frog will be right next to a collection

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Speaker 2: of what looked like little semi transparent, semi opaque spherical globules,

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Speaker 2: and these are actually the frog's eggs. One of the

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Speaker 2: most striking things about the glass frog family is their skin. Now,

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Speaker 2: most species of glass frogs appear from above to have

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Speaker 2: a kind of moderately translucent skin, especially on some parts

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Speaker 2: of their dorsal sides, such as like the toes or

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Speaker 2: the legs, and so you can see the blurry specter

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Speaker 2: of bones in their toes or in their legs, which

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Speaker 2: is very creepy and very cool. This would be like

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Speaker 2: crystal ghules. You can actually see the bones through the skin.

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Speaker 2: Some species take this even further and have not only

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Speaker 2: semi translucent legs or parts of the backs, but nearly

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Speaker 2: totally transparent bellies. So this would be the belly the

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Speaker 2: ventral side. Again not all species, but with some it

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Speaker 2: can be almost as clear as glass, and you can

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Speaker 2: look through and see their internal organs in full color,

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Speaker 2: including a little tiny beating heart and a big thick

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Speaker 2: red artery going down the middle of the inside of

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Speaker 2: the stomach, a big coiled white mass of intestines, and

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Speaker 2: so forth.

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Speaker 1: I mean they remind you of the visible man and

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Speaker 1: the visible woman anatomy kits. Yeah, yeah, I think we

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Speaker 1: all grew up with you know, where you have the

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Speaker 1: plastics see through skin, and you have you put all

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Speaker 1: the little organs in there it's like this frog is

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Speaker 1: meant to be an anatomical education tool.

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Speaker 2: Now another feature only tangentially related to their transparency here

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Speaker 2: trans lucency. If you've ever seen the Planet Earth feature

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Speaker 2: on glass frogs, it includes at least one species of

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Speaker 2: glass frog that shows this amazing egg defense behavior. So

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Speaker 2: with these frogs, what will often happen is that there

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Speaker 2: will be a clutch of fertilized eggs sticking to the

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Speaker 2: side of a leaf that may be hanging above the water,

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Speaker 2: and there will be a father frog guarding the eggs.

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Speaker 2: These eggs are apparently a favorite food of local carnivorous

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Speaker 2: wasps that will kind of zoom in and try to

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Speaker 2: munch on them and pull a partially formed tadpole out

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Speaker 2: of the egg and take it away to eat it.

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Speaker 2: But the frog fathers actually defend their eggs literally by

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Speaker 2: kicking the wasps, which is amazing to watch. You should

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Speaker 2: look up this clip.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I was watching this earlier, as is often the

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Speaker 1: case with Planet Earth footage. Very impressive, gorgeous to watch,

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Speaker 1: but it also really drives home how much the glass

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Speaker 1: frog looks like a clutch of eggs on the back

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Speaker 1: of that leaf.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they often have marking or coloration patterns on their backs.

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Speaker 2: That makes the adult male frog look like a clutch

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Speaker 2: of eggs itself. So it just kind of blends in

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Speaker 2: and then when the wasp gets close, it kicks. One

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Speaker 2: of the amazing things is seeing. So it's this tiny

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Speaker 2: little frog. And a lot of these these frogs are

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Speaker 2: so small. They might be just a you know, the

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Speaker 2: size of the size of a fingertip, maybe a couple

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Speaker 2: of centimeters. I mean, they vary in size with different species,

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Speaker 2: but most of them are very small. But then when

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Speaker 2: you see that leg suddenly launch out like a spring,

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Speaker 2: it's like enormous. It's incredible how far it reaches. But

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Speaker 2: to come back to the glass element of the glass frog,

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Speaker 2: what is this translucent or in some cases nearly transparent

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Speaker 2: skin for why would it be of evolutionary benefit to

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Speaker 2: this frog to have parts of its body being almost clear? Well,

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Speaker 2: I think for a long time it was presumed to

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Speaker 2: have some kind of role in camouflage, but we didn't

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Speaker 2: really know for sure. But there was a paper published

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty by James B. Barnett at All in

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Speaker 2: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences called imperfect transparency

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Speaker 2: and camouflage in glass frogs, And this was really interesting.

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Speaker 2: It did some experiments to try to look at the

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Speaker 2: translucent skin of a glass frog and say what does

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Speaker 2: it actually do in practice? Does it work as camouflage

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Speaker 2: and if so how? Now They start by giving some

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Speaker 2: background on biological camouflage in general. For example, camouflage patterns

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Speaker 2: on animals can help in multiple ways. They say they

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Speaker 2: can prevent both detection and recognition, so you can imagine

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Speaker 2: those as two slightly different things. Preventing detection might mean

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Speaker 2: that a predator doesn't notice you at all, like they

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Speaker 2: don't see that you're there, whereas preventing recognition might mean

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Speaker 2: that if the predator sees you, it doesn't recognize you

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Speaker 2: as what you are, maybe you look like something else.

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Speaker 2: And the authors mentioned that there are multiple ways camouflage works.

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Speaker 2: It can work by say, matching a background. There are

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Speaker 2: lots of examples of this. But you can think about

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Speaker 2: a moth or a butterfly that has patterns in coloration

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Speaker 2: on its wings that resemble the patterns and coloration of

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Speaker 2: the bark of a trees. It lands on the tree

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Speaker 2: and it just kind of blends in another thing, would

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Speaker 2: be mimicking particular background features, trying to recreate textures that

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Speaker 2: would exist in the background. And another thing would be

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Speaker 2: disrupting or breaking up edges, trying to have patterns that

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Speaker 2: make it harder to tell where the outline of an

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Speaker 2: animal would be. But they raise an interesting question. What

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Speaker 2: if you're an animal that lives in a habitat where

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Speaker 2: you can't always predict in advance what kind of background

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Speaker 2: you will be the foreground of What if you're a

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Speaker 2: vulnerable creature that needs camouflage but you live in a

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Speaker 2: highly variable environment. Evolution has at least one solution to this,

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Speaker 2: which is active color change. So we've talked about this

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Speaker 2: on the show before, but think of octopuses with their

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Speaker 2: chromatophor cells that allow them to shift colors and blend

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Speaker 2: in with seaweed or rocks or the sandy floor of

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Speaker 2: the ocean. There are tons of amazing videos of this.

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Speaker 2: You can look up where you wouldn't even see it,

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Speaker 2: Like a octopus just lands among some rocks or some

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Speaker 2: coral or seaweed or something and it just becomes them.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just almost a year ago I got to

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Speaker 1: observe an octopus in the wild in Hawaii, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: it got to watch it do this. It was amazing,

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Speaker 1: Like one of these situations where you watch it go

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Speaker 1: to some rocks or a bit of coral blend in,

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Speaker 1: and since you've been watching it, you can still make

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Speaker 1: out where it is. But if you move your eyes

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Speaker 1: away from it from just a set for just a

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Speaker 1: second and then come back, you can't see it anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's still there right in front of you. But the

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Speaker 1: camouflage is so perfect it's just quite amazing to behold totally.

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Speaker 2: And another classic example one probably everybody's familiar with chameleons.

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Speaker 2: They can change colors to match background surfaces in order

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Speaker 2: to better blend in. But of course having something like

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Speaker 2: chromatophor cells evolving this capability is of course a very

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Speaker 2: niche evolutionary specialization, so you need that history feeding into it.

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Speaker 2: Is also, of course biologically costly, and the authors point

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Speaker 2: out that the efficacy of active color change can actually

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Speaker 2: be limited by things such as the range of patterns available.

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Speaker 2: So an animal that can actively change its markings and

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Speaker 2: color patterns can't do that to an infinite degree of flexibility.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's still it's going to have surface features

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Speaker 2: and colors and like. It can change somewhat, but it

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Speaker 2: can't look like absolutely anything right right. And another thing

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Speaker 2: is the speed of change, so it takes a minute.

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Speaker 2: You know, you can see this even with octopuses that

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Speaker 2: can change very fast, but it still takes a few

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Speaker 2: seconds sometimes. So is there any other way to blend

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Speaker 2: in with your surroundings? Well, what about transparency. Transparency, of

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Speaker 2: course has the ability to create very high fidelity camouflage

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Speaker 2: because you can literally see through to the background. It

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Speaker 2: can match anything in the background. There's no limitation on

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Speaker 2: the colors or patterns available because you're just actually seeing

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Speaker 2: the background, and it works instantaneously. There's no time needed

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Speaker 2: to change if you just are transparent. Of course, there

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Speaker 2: are difficulties with transparency as well, but one example I

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Speaker 2: might use would be if you've ever seen pictures of this.

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Speaker 2: There is a butterfly known as the glass wing butterfly

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Speaker 2: that has you know, like all butterflies, it has large,

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Speaker 2: beautiful wings, but most of the surface of its wings

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Speaker 2: is actually transparent, like a pane of glass. It has

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Speaker 2: a sort of orange and black and white outline of

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Speaker 2: the wings, but most of the wings you can just

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Speaker 2: see right through them, and they're not even reflective. They

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Speaker 2: don't cause a glare. I was watching a video about

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Speaker 2: this actually, and the glass wing butterflies are able to

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Speaker 2: prevent their wings from being too reflective or shining back

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Speaker 2: with a glare by having these little tiny nano pillars

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Speaker 2: of wax on the surface of the transparent membranes that

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Speaker 2: sort of break up light patterns. I think kind of

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Speaker 2: like the way that you might have cones of foam

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Speaker 2: on the walls of a studio to break up the

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Speaker 2: reflection of sound waves. On this they would break up

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Speaker 2: the reflection of light waves with these tiny little wax

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Speaker 2: spikes all over the wings. Of course, you can't see

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Speaker 2: them because they're too small. Instead, it just looks like

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Speaker 2: clear glass.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, these are weird to see in the wild because

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Speaker 1: it does look even as you're watching them fly around,

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Speaker 1: it looks like, well, something or something has come along

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Speaker 1: and just punch sections of their wing out. It's just

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Speaker 1: completely translucent.

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Speaker 2: But the wings wouldn't work, of course, if they just

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Speaker 2: had holes in them. Instead, they actually had to evolve

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Speaker 2: layers of cells in their wings, thin layers of cells

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Speaker 2: that would allow light to pass right through and would

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Speaker 2: prevent the surface of the wings from picking up glare

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Speaker 2: from the sunlight, but also would still be solid enough

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Speaker 2: to work as wings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're sort of like Wonder Woman's invisible plane.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, right, But I think it works for the

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Speaker 2: butterfly because the material of wings can be very thin, right,

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Speaker 2: it's a sort of thin. I believe it's made mostly

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Speaker 2: of kiten in this case, you know, kitan and cells

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Speaker 2: that can allow that to happen. It's going to be

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Speaker 2: harder to do with, say, like the thick, fleshy body

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Speaker 2: parts of something like a frog. And there are also

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Speaker 2: strategic limitations to camouflage via transparency, especially on land. Some

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Speaker 2: aquatic animals use transparency for camouflage, and we'll get more

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Speaker 2: into that in a bit when I know there's some

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Speaker 2: examples you wanted to talk about, rob but terrestrial animals

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Speaker 2: run into some different problems because on land, the author's

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Speaker 2: write quote, image distortion may be more obvious than in water,

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Speaker 2: and that kind of makes sense, right, It might be

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Speaker 2: easier to see the weird way that even a pretty

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Speaker 2: clear thing like a glass wing butterfly's wing still causes

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Speaker 2: a little bit of distortion in the background. It's not

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Speaker 2: as if there's nothing there. It's just remarkably clear for

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Speaker 2: an actual biological surface. Now, of course, glass frogs are

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Speaker 2: terrestrial animals. They make use of transparency or translucency, especially

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Speaker 2: pronounced in some species, and it is presumably a camouflage tactic,

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Speaker 2: but as I said earlier, we don't really know for sure,

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Speaker 2: or at least before this paper it was harder to know.

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Speaker 2: Is if it is a camouflage tactic, how exactly does

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Speaker 2: it work, and does it.

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Speaker 4: Work at all?

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Speaker 2: Could that be empirically verified, and especially given some strange

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Speaker 2: features such as the fact that in the ones that

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Speaker 2: are very clear, the really clear part of the skin

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Speaker 2: is usually on the ventral side, the belly side, and

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Speaker 2: that's the part that would be facing down to the

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Speaker 2: surface that they're perched on. More often they tend to

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Speaker 2: have some dorsal pigmentation, so on the back they might

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Speaker 2: have sort of green and yellow color patterns. You can

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Speaker 2: see they're not totally clear on the back. And so

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Speaker 2: the authors of this twenty twenty paper did a number

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Speaker 2: of different experiments contained within it to try to figure

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Speaker 2: out what was going on with these frogs. So they

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Speaker 2: like simulated the vision of predators that prey on the

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Speaker 2: frogs in the lab and looked at frogs with differing

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Speaker 2: levels of translucency or opacity to see if it made

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Speaker 2: a difference for those predators. They also tested it just

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Speaker 2: with humans looking at them to see if there were

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Speaker 2: differences in detection recognition times based on how translucent or

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Speaker 2: opaque the frog is. And then they also performed an

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Speaker 2: experiment in the wild with simulated frogs. They like made

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Speaker 2: fake glass frogs out of gelatine with different levels of

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Speaker 2: opacity versus translucency to see if it affected predation. And

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Speaker 2: what these experiments found was that the quote perceived luminance

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Speaker 2: of the frogs was the big thing that really changed,

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Speaker 2: and it changed depending on the background compared to opaque frogs.

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Speaker 2: So I think one of the really important things to

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Speaker 2: understand here is that the translucency of the glass frog

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Speaker 2: doesn't actually change the color of the frog very much.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's basically most of them have some kind

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Speaker 2: of green or green yellow coloration pattern and that pretty

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Speaker 2: much stays the same. What actually changes is the amount

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Speaker 2: of light that is allowed to pass through the frog,

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Speaker 2: and specifically parts of the frogs such as the outlines

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Speaker 2: of the toes and the legs, and the transparency of

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Speaker 2: these frogs actually did help them blend in with the background,

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Speaker 2: especially when they're on something like a leaf, and it

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Speaker 2: will allow light to pass through their bodies in a

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Speaker 2: manner consistent with the leaf underneath, especially at the edges

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Speaker 2: where their legs are meeting the surface. And they did

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Speaker 2: find ecologically that this level of transparency did increase survival.

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Speaker 2: So the frogs that let more light through their skin

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Speaker 2: got preyed on by birds less. Now coming to I

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Speaker 2: mentioned the legs, they say that the legs made the

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Speaker 2: biggest difference here. They said it was the legs quote

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Speaker 2: which surround the body at rest and create a diffuse

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Speaker 2: transition from background to frog luminance rather than a sharp,

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Speaker 2: highly salient edge. So I think that's the important way

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Speaker 2: to think about this. What does the glass frog's translucent

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Speaker 2: skin do. It doesn't make the frog visible, and it

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Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily change the color of the frog. Instead, what

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Speaker 2: it does is it sort of erases the outline of

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Speaker 2: the frog instead of a sharp line of color change

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Speaker 2: or high contrast between the frog and its background. Instead,

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Speaker 2: there's a gradual, soft transition from background to frog because

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Speaker 2: the frog's skin allows that light to pass through, and

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Speaker 2: this is a camouflage strategy they call edge diffusion. The

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Speaker 2: real purpose is to take away your body's outline.

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Speaker 1: I like that, Yeah, I mean you see that in

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Speaker 1: various military camouflage designs as well, and it always makes

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Speaker 1: me think of have you ever seen these examples of

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Speaker 1: playing cards from World War Two? Where each playing card

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Speaker 1: has the outline of a different enemy aircraft on it.

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Speaker 1: The idea being that it'll sort of while I guess

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Speaker 1: the soldiers are sent around playing cards, they'll also end

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Speaker 1: up boning up on what particular aircraft look like, what

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Speaker 1: their outlines look like in the sky, so they can

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Speaker 1: identify them. So, you know, it's it would be kind

435
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: of like, then, okay, if we have the basic outline

436
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: of the of the airplane in people's minds, well, what

437
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: can we do to break up that outline so that

438
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: it's not instantly identifiable. Because whether you're talking about animals

439
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: or you're talking about in a natural environment, or you're

440
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: talking about humans in a military situation, it's like seeing

441
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: something identifying something and then comes whatever the action is.

442
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: And if you can break up that chain of reactions,

443
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 1: then you can buy yourself some time.

444
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: Right, and the outline is incredibly important for that recognition component.

445
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 2: Like rob Agan, you can look at these pictures I

446
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: attached near the top of this section here, both of

447
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: which are of glass frogs perching on a green leaf

448
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: that's being sort of brightly lit or lit from behind.

449
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: And in both cases, actually no matter which direction the

450
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 2: light source is coming from, the soft, diffuse edges of

451
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 2: the frog really do help it kind of look more

452
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 2: just like a kind of spot sun a leaf or something.

453
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I mean, both of these cases, it's the

454
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 1: frog is pictured next to a pile of the eggs,

455
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: and like I say, the frog looks more like a

456
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: pile of eggs than a frog. It looks more like

457
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: you know, you look at it, and you're more likely

458
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: to say, what is that weird jelly shape? Oh, it's

459
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: a frog, as opposed to instantly identifying a frog. It

460
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: just throws you off, even for even just a fraction

461
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: of a second. And this is in a case where

462
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: we know what we're looking at. It's supposed to be

463
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: a picture of a frog.

464
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, And sometimes a fraction of a second is all

465
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: you need. Maybe if you're trying to avoid the gaze

466
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 2: of a bird that's passing by, or a wasp that's

467
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 2: passing by, or.

468
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: Something trying to kick a wasp in the face, that

469
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: sort of thing.

470
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: But as I mentioned a minute ago, while the use

471
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: of translucency or transparency in animals is somewhat rare on land,

472
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 2: it's actually more common in the water, and there are

473
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: some amazing examples in marine organisms.

474
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, there are a number of examples that

475
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: I think line up quite well with camouflage, and in

476
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: all cases, I guess it helps to be kind of small.

477
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: The smaller you are as an organism, the easier it's

478
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: going to be to have some sort of translucency or

479
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: transparency to your body. That being said, there are some

480
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: very large jellies, you know, they take up a fair

481
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: amount of space that of course are to varying degrees translucent.

482
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: But this is why the chances of actually seeing something

483
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: like one of Fritz Leiber's googles, or say a translucent

484
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: elephant are pretty slim. But yeah, there are a lot

485
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: of a lot of creatures in the sea that match

486
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: up with this. You have things like glass octopi and

487
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: so forth. But yeah, there are also just some really

488
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: strange fish in the sea. There are so many strange

489
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: fish in the sea that frankly, not being a strange

490
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: fish is a bit strange.

491
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: Know.

492
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: The stranger fish that you'll likely see is an image

493
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: of the barrel eye fish Macropinna microstoma. So I think

494
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: a lot of you've probably seen this image before. And

495
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: if you were to look up Macropinna microstoma or just

496
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: look up barrel eye, you'll see the one or two

497
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: famous images of this fish. It's a fish so strange

498
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: that you'll likely say, well, where does the fish get

499
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: off looking so strange? And then hearing you, this fish

500
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: will gaze at you with its two tubular eyes, staring

501
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: straight through the translucent, fluid filled shield that composes the

502
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: upper portion of its head. This is just a bizarre

503
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: and I think oddly kind of cute looking fish at least,

504
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: Like I say, there are a couple of photographs that

505
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: are out there just all over the place, because this

506
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: one really tore up the nature blogs years ago, and

507
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: even I think you're less scientifically inclined boards and so forth,

508
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: we're like, what is this? Look at this strange creature?

509
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:01,959
Speaker 1: How can this be?

510
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: You know what It reminds me of is. I had

511
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: to look up the name of this because I didn't

512
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 2: know what it was called. But the you remember those

513
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: glass balls they would have in like Worlds of Wonder

514
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: or something with the electricity inside. Yeah, it's apparently called

515
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: a plasma globe or a plasma lamp.

516
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks kind of like a plasma lamp for sure.

517
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

518
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: So it's like a it's like a clear glass ball,

519
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: and then inside it'll be filled with some kind of

520
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: noble gas, I don't know, neon or something, and then

521
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 2: it will have a high voltage electrode in the middle.

522
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: And I guess what when you touch the you touch

523
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: the glass, it sort of like tries to jolt out

524
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: at you.

525
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

526
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: Well that's what this fish's head looks like that you're

527
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: just looking in at. I don't know if that's brains

528
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: or what it's. It looks like plasma.

529
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, this this creature is so to be clear, most

530
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: of this fish is not translucent or transparent, but the

531
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: top of the head is, and inside you see primarily

532
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: these two big tubular type globes, and these are the

533
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: creature's eyes. So I'll get back in a second to

534
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: what this means. But this creature is the only known

535
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: member of their genus, but they are part of the

536
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: barrel eye family Opisto Proctadae, home to the spookfishes as

537
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: they're called with that all have these weird tubular telescoping eyes. Now,

538
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: these deep sea creatures have eyes like this, so they

539
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: can look, they can lock into a vertical position, but

540
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: they can also scan the depths above for possible prey.

541
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: So imagine yourself living kind of deep, but you're also

542
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: concerned with the lighter regions of the ocean above you

543
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: because that's where potential food is. So you need to

544
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: be able to look straight up while yourself remaining in

545
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: a horizontal position, and so that's what they've evolved to do.

546
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: But then they can also direct them forward as well,

547
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: obviously to aid in such forward facing ventures as say,

548
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: actually eating the prey or dealing with things that are

549
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: happening on your level of the ocean. But all these

550
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: other tubular eyed spookfishes, they do not have this strange

551
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: translucent head situation going on. This is something that we

552
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: find particularly in the macropenum microstoma, and I was reading

553
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: about them in a paper This was published in the

554
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: journal Coopia. It's by authors Robinson and Rizin Bitchlar, and

555
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: it's titled Macropenum Microstoma and the Paradox of its Tubular Eyes.

556
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: So I want to read I want to read just

557
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: a quote from this quote. The most striking aspect of

558
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: these fishes, when first viewed in situ, is the transparent,

559
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: cowl like shield that covers the top of the head

560
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: and the prominent tubular eyes. Within the shield is a tough,

561
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: flexible integument that attaches to dorsal and medial scales behind

562
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: the head into the broad, transparent subocular bones that protect

563
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: the eyes. Latterly, this fragile structure is typically lost or

564
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: collapsed during capture by nets, and it has not been

565
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: previously described or figured. Beneath the shield is a fluid

566
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: filled chamber that surrounds and protects the eyes. Okay, so,

567
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: first of all, one of the things they mentioned, there's

568
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 1: something we've discussed regarding deep sea creatures as well. You know,

569
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: you bring these up through the depths, stuff implodes or explodes,

570
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: et cetera, and neurally implodes, I guess, gets torn and

571
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: what you end up with is kind of like the

572
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: deflated balloon version of the animal as it would exist

573
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: in the depths.

574
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, this would be like sometimes people go fishing for

575
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: deep sea fish and pull them up and it looks

576
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: like they've got some giant tongue sticking out of their mouth.

577
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: That's actually like their guts being inverted by the change

578
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: in pressure because they've got like a swim bladder, and

579
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: then when that comes up to when they come up

580
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: the pressure is too low, that inflates and it pops

581
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: their stomach out.

582
00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 4: Is really gross.

583
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, So sometimes see threads where people are like, look

584
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: at this blobfish. How disgusting? What disgusting things live in

585
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: the depths, And you almost want to see a Gary

586
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: Larson far side reversal of that situation where you have

587
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: the like luminous and deep sea creatures that are all

588
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: spread out in balloony and they have dragged like a

589
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: human body down into the crushing depths and they're like,

590
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: look at this thing, look at this disgusting creature from

591
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: the surface world.

592
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, or just pulled literally pull your body into the

593
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: vacuum of space and say like what a what a whimp.

594
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: But anyway, this description they give, which I really like it,

595
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: describing it as a cowl like shield. Like. What they're

596
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: saying here is that there is this this clear like

597
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: shield on the top of their head. It's filled with fluid,

598
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: and inside that fluid behind that shield are its eyes.

599
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: And so this is wondrous when you start thinking about, well,

600
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: what does it mean when you have translucenter or transparency

601
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: as an option and for flesh on a being you know,

602
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: imagined or otherwise, Well, like to come back to Fritz

603
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: Leber's gules, it would mean, why do you need your

604
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: eyes to be on the outside of your body at all?

605
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: Why not have more material there between your delicate eyes

606
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: and the you know, the harmful, scabby outside world.

607
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 4: That's an amazing point.

608
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 2: Yes, if you have parts of your body that are

609
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 2: as clear as glass, you could put your eyes inside

610
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 2: those parts. And yeah, yeah, I mean in a way

611
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: you could already say that's sort of true. I mean,

612
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 2: I guess it's not true, because I mean, we have

613
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 2: focusing parts that are basically right on the exposed parts

614
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 2: of our eyes, the cornea and the lens and all that.

615
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: But you could say that the light sensing cells and

616
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: our retina are they're not exposed to the outside they're in.

617
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 4: The back of the eye.

618
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: So you could just take that another step further and

619
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: just say, well, let's add another clear protective layer. Except

620
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: that's just like your skin now outside the eye.

621
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course with you can also I think

622
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: there's also a strong argument to be made for like

623
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 1: the various like slimy membranes that coat of fish as

624
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: being an extra level of protection that is generally translucent

625
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: as well. But oh and you know, just to mention

626
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 1: the fritz lever Ghul thing again, we also when thinking

627
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: about eyes, we also have to remember that with human

628
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: eyes we also have eye lids. Because it's not just

629
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: about what light does when it enters the eye. We

630
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 1: also need to control how much light is entering the eye,

631
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: something that would be I guess quite difficult if you

632
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: if your your eyelids were completely transparent. Yeah, anyway, back

633
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: to this fid, because this fish is ultimately even more

634
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: amazing because its head is kind of like a space helmet,

635
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, with eyes looking out through the substance of

636
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: this call like shield. And so this leads to the

637
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: big question, why is it like this like this is

638
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: this isn't surely as a case of camouflage, and it

639
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be a case of like breaking up

640
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: the overall outline of the organism. So what is the deal.

641
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: So the authors here of this paper, they write that

642
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: the main hypothesis is that the shield is there for protection.

643
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 1: It provides protection for these eyes from the tentacles of Nigerians,

644
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: one of the apparent sources of food for this fish.

645
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: So we're talking about like stinging jellyfishes and the like.

646
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: So they're gazing up, they're hoping to catch sight of

647
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: some sort of swirling jelly mass of deliciousness. But the

648
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: thing about that swirling mass of jelly deliciousness is that

649
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: it also will have tentacles and nematicists in there that

650
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 1: can damage your tissue all the better than if there's

651
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: this extra layer of protection between your delicate eyes and

652
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: that all of those bioweapons. So it's able to rise

653
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: up and entangle itself in all of that and start

654
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: eating without damaging its eye.

655
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 4: So you say, this is just the raining hypothesis.

656
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: I guess this is difficult to test because this is

657
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: like a delicate deep sea organism and right access.

658
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it seems seems to be the best

659
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: argument for what's going on here, And yeah, it makes sense.

660
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: Why else have your eyes so secluded inside of this

661
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: this strange space helmet like head cranial feature. It's amazing.

662
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: I love this fish.

663
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again these images are quite captivating a lot

664
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: of people were amazed by this because it looking at it,

665
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 1: not knowing what you're looking at. It's easy to mistake

666
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 1: of some details on the front of the fishes, I mean,

667
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, face thinking, those are

668
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: the eyes, and it has maybe like two globular brains

669
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: or something, but that the globular things. That the things

670
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: that look like a pair of globes, those are the eyes.

671
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 4: Wow.

672
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: And if you the thing is, if you look up

673
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: examples of other tubular eyed fish, you can see this

674
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 1: a little better. However, this fish is so popular that

675
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: if you do Google image searches for tubular eyed fish,

676
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna mostly just see this guy because he's

677
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: just really taken over. He's been an Internet sensation.

678
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 4: Steal in the limelight.

679
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: But Macropinna is not the only fish that incorporates transparent

680
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: or translucent body elements.

681
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: Right right, There are a number of other ones. And

682
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: now that you set it up. So I wish I

683
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: had an example of just a purely camouflage based translucent fish,

684
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: but my next example kind of exkews the definition a

685
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: little bit, but does contain some species and specimens that

686
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: have a translucent look to them. So we're dealing with

687
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: the crocodile ice fish. These compose an entire family Chennick

688
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: the day of fish that are found in the icy

689
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: waters of the Southern Ocean ant Antarctica. Now, some of

690
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: these are again small enough that photograph of specimens and

691
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: species with the right lighting do look partially translucent, but

692
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: other species and particular specimens certainly don't look crystal like.

693
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: They just look like some sort of a weird, big

694
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: headed gray fish. However, the most interesting thing about these

695
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: fish is their blood, sometimes described as white blood or

696
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: translucent blood or transparent blood. This is because their blood

697
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: is lacking hemoglobin, and they're the only known vertebrates to

698
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: lack hemoglobin in their blood as adults.

699
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 4: Oh wow, interesting.

700
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 1: And Joe, if you scan down in the notes here,

701
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: I included an image here from the Studiu I'm about

702
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: to site which you get to see red blooded fish blood,

703
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: and then also an example of the milky white almost translated,

704
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: I would say translucent blood of these crocodile fish. So

705
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: it's not quite androids in the alien franchise level of

706
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 1: white blood. It's not like milk coming out of their body.

707
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,760
Speaker 4: My white blood. Yeah, that was milk.

708
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. This reminds me of certain spirits alcohols that you'll

709
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: find that have kind of a like an opay milky

710
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: consistency without being like that white. But any rate, it's

711
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 1: pointed out by Sidel and O'Brien in When Bad Things

712
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: Happen to GoodFish excellent title published in Journal of Experimental

713
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: Biology in two thousand and six. This is a unique

714
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: trait due to their cold, isolated environment, resulting in not

715
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: only the loss of hemoglobin expression, but sometimes myoglobin expression

716
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 1: as well and to refresh. Hemoglobin is a red protein

717
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: responsible for transporting oxygen in the blood of vertebrates, and

718
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: myoglobin is a red protein containing heme, which carries and

719
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: stores oxygen in muscle cells.

720
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: Right, So myoglobin is a great example. Like if you

721
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: ever cut open a piece of meat that you get

722
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: in the grocery store, that's probably it's got like some

723
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 2: red juice coming out of it. People often call that

724
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 2: blood they think it is blood. But you know, an

725
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 2: animal that's been butchered has usually been drained of its blood.

726
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: That's going to be myoglobin, the sort of pinkish fluid

727
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: within the muscles.

728
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so without either of these being expressed and the organism,

729
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: the result is that their blood is white or colorless

730
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: or transparent, if you will. So the authors here point

731
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: out a few key details about the environment that these

732
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 1: fish have evolved to thrive in. So, first of all,

733
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: is really cold here, obviously, and it's not only really cold,

734
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: but it's oxygen rich. Quote, because oxygen solubility and seawater

735
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: is inversely proportional to temperature. The cold Antarctic seas thus

736
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: are an exceptionally oxygen rich aquatic habitat all. Right on

737
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: top of that, it's isolated, so you have circumpolar currents

738
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: and deep ocean trenches surrounding the continent of Antarctica, cutting

739
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: these creatures off from other fauna. And then also the

740
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: authors state that these fish seed to evolved with very

741
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 1: little niche competition due to a mid tertiary through present

742
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: crash in fish diversity. So they've evolved yeah, yeah, so

743
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: they've evolved to do without hemoglobin because of their low

744
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: metabolic rates in this cold environment, but also due to

745
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: the high solubility of oxygen in the water at the

746
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: low temperatures in this environment. However, since their blood carries

747
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: less than ten percent of the oxygen carried in red

748
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: fish blood, they've also evolved other cardiovascular adaptations, including enormous

749
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: hearts with cardiac rates that are quote four to fivefold

750
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: greater than that of red blooded species. And so yeah,

751
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: so the authors drive home that this is blood that

752
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: works really well with creatures that live in a stable

753
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: cold water environment, and this region stabilized in such a

754
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: way roughly ten to fourteen million years ago, allowing ice

755
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: fish like this to thrive. And again, these are strange

756
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: looking fish. You look at them. Some time they do

757
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: look extremely translucent. Other times it's just kind of a

758
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: weird looking gray, big headed fish. When you know there's

759
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: a big honkin heart in there working extra hard.

760
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: Looks like a fish that would have fallen off the

761
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: garage and hit Ralphie in the eye and he ends

762
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: a crying yeah, broke his glasses.

763
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: Speaking of coming back to fictional accounts, I know that

764
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: the image of Micropinna as well as images of some

765
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: of these translucent glass frogs. I think they must have

766
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: influenced the animators on the series Adventure Time, because I

767
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: can think of a few different cases where you had

768
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: some sort of a creature pop up on that show

769
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: that had some sort of translucent aspect of its anatomy

770
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: that remind me of both of these creatures. If one

771
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: does an Internet search for Adventure Time Frog Wizard, you'll

772
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: see a character named Buffo that I remember showing up.

773
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so wait, am I looking at the translucent

774
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 2: element here? Looks like it's the throat sack.

775
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: Am I?

776
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 4: Right?

777
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of puffs up the sack and the sack

778
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: is translucent, right.

779
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: Buffo has two wizard hats on his head. But yeah,

780
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 1: when he puffs up his throat, you see several different

781
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: little tadpoles in there that are actually the ones that speak,

782
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: and each of them has a little wizard hat as well.

783
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Oh this is also like this is a

784
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: different biological connection. The frogs that keep their they incubate

785
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 2: their tadpoles inside their mouths or digestive systems. Yeah, yeah,

786
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: I feel like for the biological trifecta, hear, they should

787
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 2: also have this wizard frog vomit up its own stomach

788
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: and scrape it out with its hands and then swallow

789
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 2: the stomach again.

790
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: I got into some of this on a monster fact

791
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 1: a while back about I can't remember its name off hand,

792
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 1: but the creature from Super Mario Brothers Too that spits

793
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: eggs out of its mouth.

794
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 4: Oh I remember that thing.

795
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But the closest comparison Drolly that I could

796
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: make between that and the natural world, it takes us

797
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: to the realm of amphibians and frogs incubating their eggs

798
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: in curious places and in some cases ejecting them.

799
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: This makes me feel like we got to do the

800
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 2: biology of why the princess can float for two seconds?

801
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: She did. She was good. She was my go to

802
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: because she could do that little flying thing. I would

803
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: generally do her, or I would do Luigi, but I

804
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 1: almost never did Mario or Toad. Toad.

805
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 4: What was Toad's deal? Could he throw farther or something?

806
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: I don't even remember. Toad was just Toad. Didn't work

807
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 1: for me. But then again, I definitely didn't beat that game,

808
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: did not make it ver far. I got as far

809
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: as like there's some sort of a hydras snake, and

810
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 1: that that was the limit.

811
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 2: There's a lot of pulling up radishes in that when.

812
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: And the pulling up of radishes and throwing a red

813
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 1: that was pretty satisfying, I guess, but that was way

814
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: too hard for me as a kid. I guess Birdo

815
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: Burdo was that creature's name. I had to look at

816
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 1: Birdo Burdo.

817
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 4: All right, does that do it for today?

818
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: I believe it does. We're going to go ahead and call

819
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: it on this episode. Though again, there are a number

820
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: of other translucent creatures we didn't have time to get

821
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: into on this episode. So if you have a particular

822
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 1: favorite that we didn't cover, write in about it. We'd

823
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: love to discuss it. Maybe we can break it down

824
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: in a future episode future listener mail something like that. Also,

825
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 1: if you have thoughts on translucent fleshed beings and various

826
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: fictional works, I'm sure it's not just Fritz liber there

827
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: have to be some other ones that I'm not thinking of,

828
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: or you know, the people that were influenced by by

829
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: Fritz Liber or people that influence Fritz Libra. I'm not sure.

830
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: There might be some older examples to draw on, but

831
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: at any rate. We'd love to hear from you on

832
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: any and all of that. We remind you that Stuff

833
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science podcast, with

834
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: our episodes coming out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Those are

835
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: the core episodes and the Stuff to Blow your Mind

836
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: podcast feed. We usually do listener mail on Mondays. We

837
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: also do a short form artifact or monster fact on Wednesdays,

838
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: and on Fridays we do Weird House Cinema. That's our

839
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: time to set aside most serious concerns and just talk

840
00:46:58,600 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: about a strange film.

841
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,919
Speaker 2: Huge thanks, as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

842
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,439
Speaker 2: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

843
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 2: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

844
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 2: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

845
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 2: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff

846
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 2: to blow your Mind dot com.

847
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

848
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 3: more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

849
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.