1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Welcome, conspiracy realist. We are talking about something that has 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: become a bit of a hobby horse for us at 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: this point. Not too long ago, Nol and Matt Ny 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: were going to get tickets to go see a concert 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: together and we ran into the fees. Oh god, the fees. 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 2: The fees. 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, this isn't an aldly bit of goody. 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: That is painfully relevant still to this day. 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: I mean it's we're approaching an absolute monopoly with Live 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: Nation and Ticketmasters. 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: They are kind of like the people selling the tickets 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: being the same people that on the venues. It's not great. 13 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: Let's jump right in and see how much more expensive 14 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: it's gotten since even May twenty nineteen. 15 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 3: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: Production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: Greetings, Welcome back to the show. 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: My name is Matt and our pal Noel is on 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: some adventures, but we'll return in the future. They called 22 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Control decad. Most importantly, you are you. 24 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: You are here that makes this stuff. They don't want 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: you to know. Welcome to the show. You did not 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: have to buy tickets. 27 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: That's right. You did have to buy a phone or 28 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 2: a computer or something that has a microphone and a 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: processor and at least headphone outputs or some kind of speaker. 30 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: Let's call those associated fees. Yeah, so the show is free. 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: It takes some doing to get it in you. 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: To get it in your ear, right, Yeah. All the 33 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: other paraphernalia is not include. I mean, sure, this is 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: a show. This is a recorded show, right, we do 35 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: a call in line. We've taken the show on the 36 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: road and probably will do again and then near to 37 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: mid future. But nothing, nothing quite beats the experience right off. 38 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: You're in your favorite music or your favorite performance whatever 39 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: it is live right, Like, what are some of the 40 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: memorable concerts you've been to? 41 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 2: Man, I haven't really been to many, but Dave Matthews 42 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: back in the day, oh boy, and some of that 43 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: DMB baby, Oh it was the best. And you know 44 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 2: what tickets were always like, Okay, they were not insane 45 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: back in the early two thousands doing some old DMB though, 46 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: you know, you get to you know, that's a fairly 47 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 2: large act right. Then you get to newer shows nowadays, 48 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: and you're going to a much smaller venue with a 49 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: much smaller band, And I'm paying more now to see 50 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: those bands than I did to pay a big ticket 51 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: band when I was, you know, coming out of high 52 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: school in college. 53 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: So like you would go see Dave Matthews band in 54 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: a stadium or something, yeah, something that large, and you 55 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: would get maybe some reasonable tickets on the lawn or whatever. 56 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: Thirty bucks okay, max thirty bucks with everything. 57 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, just to get into Lakewood Amphitheater, which not called 58 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 2: that anymore, but who cares. And also, you know, inflation. 59 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: Obviously everyone is saying inflation, matt but inflation, but that's 60 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: not all. 61 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: Let's call it feflation. Okay, maybe okay, asides from sounding 62 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: very doctor Susian, that that is a word that could 63 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: work for today's episode, because you know what bothers me 64 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: about buying tickets probably the same thing that bothers everyone 65 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: they buy tickets nowadays. When you buy its ticket for something, 66 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: you're overwhelmingly going to do it online or else. You're 67 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: going to show up at a show the day of, 68 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: you know. 69 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: And it's probably sold out if it's worth anything. 70 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: Perhaps, Yeah, yeah, And it's really it's relatively rare for 71 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: someone to be walking down the street see tickets for 72 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: a show like next week or that weekend, and then 73 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: say I'm going to walk in and buy those now 74 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: in person. People don't do that near as often, so 75 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: most of the time we buy tickets online. And here 76 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: in the United States, there's been one game in town 77 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: for quite a while, and this game continues in other 78 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: countries as well. A master, if you will, of tickets. Oh, 79 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: some sort of ticket master. Yes, Wowly, it took a 80 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: while to get to that one, but it's true. Right, 81 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: since about the late nineteen seventies, it's become increasingly difficult 82 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: to get tickets to live events Broadway plays, Symphonies, the DMB. 83 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: It's difficult to get these tickets without running somehow into 84 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: ticket Master, even if you don't know that you're running 85 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: into Ticketmaster. So what exactly is this thing? It's been 86 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: here for the three of us, for you, mission control 87 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: of myself, for our entire lives. 88 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and beyond and before. Yeah. So let's go back 89 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 2: to Phoenix, Arizona, nineteen seventy six. A couple of gentlemen 90 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: we got Albert Leffler, Peter Godwa, and another man, a 91 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: businessman named Gordon Gunn. What a great name. Yeah, seriously, 92 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,799 Speaker 2: Gordon Gunn. So Leffler. He comes up with this name, 93 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 2: this idea for a thing, and he calls it ticket Master, 94 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: And it's this new company that's just going to control 95 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: tickets and for these guys when they founded in nineteen 96 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: seventy six, really all they're trying to do in the 97 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: beginning is sells tickets to an Electric Light Orchestra concert 98 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 2: at the University of New Mexico. That's the first big thing. 99 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: And electric Light Orchestra is something that my dad told 100 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: me about, actually that he really enjoyed. Look it up, 101 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: Google it. If you don't know it, Spotify it. I'm 102 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: sure you can find it. 103 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: Mister Blue Sky is a great song. 104 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: It really is. It really is. But anyway, so this 105 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: one little thing in Albuquerque, New Mexico. 106 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to interrupt that to say, yeah, Turned 107 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: to Stone is also a great song. Oh, in my mind, 108 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: it's one that I've had stuck in my head. Awesome 109 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: a Blue Sky Turned to Stone. It's the seventies, it's Albuquerque. 110 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: Out of college. Awesome, good times rolling right, let the 111 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: good times roll. And so then they figure out, hey, 112 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: this is working. We're just you know, control a hub. 113 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: We're controlling the tickets to one thing. We're good at this, 114 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: Let's keep doing it. So they keep doing it for 115 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: a few years. Then by nineteen seventy eight they have 116 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: their first international clients coming in from Norway, Oslo, Norway, 117 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: and that same year they signed their first major venue, 118 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: this place called the Louisiana super Dome, along with their 119 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: first Major League team, the New Orleans Jazz, which is 120 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: now the Utah Jazz, but in the city of New 121 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: Orleans it was the Jazz. So they actually have the 122 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: NBA as one of their major clients, one team on 123 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: the NBA. But still, that's huge for just a couple 124 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: of guys starting with a startup, right. 125 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it happens so quickly. It's just a few years. 126 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: When Leffler and Godwa originally thought of the company, they 127 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: were going to be licensing software for tickets, really, and 128 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: they've gone from that to being the ticket provider for stadiums, 129 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: which sounds kind of like maybe a boring business, right, 130 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: it's not, as you know, endlessly fascinating as being a 131 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: professional skydiver or maybe a podcast or something like that, 132 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: you know, an underwater tattoo artist. But still, what we 133 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: have to realize is they get a cut of every 134 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: ticket sold, and when you get to something as large 135 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: as a superdome, that's a lot of money in like 136 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: in one night, yeap. Other people knew about the game. 137 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: There were other things that existed at this time before 138 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: ticket Master. There was a business called ticket Tron, like 139 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: ticket and then the movie Tron. 140 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: And that's nineteen sixties. So it's difficult to It's hard 141 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 2: for me to imagine computerized ticket sales being organized enough 142 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: with software, with computers that are powerful enough to like 143 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: do it in any large scale. But it was happening. 144 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't necessarily happening on the 145 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: customer end, but you would make a phone call to 146 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: ticket Tron and they would have this database. 147 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: Right, So can I selly fun fact about ticket Tron? Yeah? 148 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: They were purchased by a thing called the Lovecraft Investment 149 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 2: Group in nineteen ninety. 150 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: What's the Lovecraft Investment Group? 151 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 2: Man? All I know is is Lovecraft. There's a Lovecraft involved, 152 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 2: That's all I know. 153 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: Oh boy, let's see it's true. 154 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: The Hewlett Packard Lovecraft. 155 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what the I don't know what the 156 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: Lovecraft investment. This may be fodder for another podcast. Here's 157 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: the thing. As you said, there were other there were 158 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: other similar creatures around in this market, right, other places 159 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: that wanted to be the ticket provider, in the middleman 160 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: for that. But like a hungry invading species, Ticketmaster consumed 161 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: and digested the these competitors. In nineteen eighty one, it 162 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: opened its first overseas operation. In nineteen eighty two, they 163 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: got a new CEO, a guy named Fred Rosen. Rosen 164 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: told the La Times back in eighty five that his 165 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: competitors were asleep at the switch. He said, he was 166 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: an aggressive businessman. I'm proud of it, got this American 167 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: psycho vibe going on, right. He was so good at 168 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: dominating the ticket industry that it became the only game 169 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: in town. And other people, other artists, primarily not just 170 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: wound up consumers. Other artists started to take issue with it. 171 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: Pearl Jam launched a campaign in nineteen ninety four that 172 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: they called a strong language for some people ticket bastard, 173 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: because you see, pearl Jam was hearing from their fans 174 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: that they literally couldn't afford tickets to a show, or 175 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: that they were getting saddled with these egregious hidden fees, 176 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,599 Speaker 1: and so they said, well, look man, we want to 177 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: make a living, but we want our fans to see 178 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: our music. We don't want to milk them for every 179 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: penny they're worth, Like what are we kiss? You know 180 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: what I mean. They don't want to do that. They 181 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: want to be human, they want to stay human. So 182 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: they wanted to offer summer tour tickets to fans for 183 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: under twenty bucks. And they asked ticket Master, you know, hey, guys, 184 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: can you just not charge another twenty bucks and fees? 185 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: Can you actually like keep the fees around two dollars 186 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: or whatever that your cost of doing businesses? And they 187 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: said no, no, you're Pearl. 188 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: Jam and we are ticket Master. Yeah. So yeah, but 189 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: it's crazy to think about because they really did say no, 190 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: and Pearl Jam just in nineteen ninety four decided, well 191 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 2: it's not worth it. We're not even going to go 192 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: on tour. We're canceling everything. We're not gonna like go 193 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 2: and play a bunch of empty stadiums where nobody can 194 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 2: show up for these exorbitant prices. They ended up going 195 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 2: to Congress and guess what, Pearl Jam one and everything 196 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 2: was okay and everyone was happy, and ticket sales went 197 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: down to twenty dollars for the rest of our lives. 198 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for tuning in, folks, We hope you 199 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode. 200 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: Oh wait, nope, nope, that's not what happened. What happened 201 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 2: Ticketmaster won. 202 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: Right, And there's one more sordid detail for this story. 203 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: The band. The members of the band Pearl Jam maintained 204 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: and say to this day. You can ask them today 205 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: and they'll confirm this. That private investigators were sent to 206 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 1: snoop around in their lives, sent by Ticketmaster and having 207 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:50,479 Speaker 1: a PI sicked on you by a company very common occurrence. Unfortunately, 208 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: what they were probably trying to do. What the allegation 209 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: implies is that Ticketmaster was attempted to find something discrediting 210 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: to members of Pearl Jam, not something that had anything 211 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: to do with their crusade to get better ticket prices. 212 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: They wanted to be able to say, well, this person 213 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: is doing heroin and we'll put it in the news 214 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: if you guys don't straighten up intil the corporate line, 215 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: but you know again, that's a terrible example, because this 216 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: is the nineties in Seattle grunge, right, So doing Heroin 217 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: may unfortunately not have been the huge scandal that they 218 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: would want, but they wanted something to hold over their heads, 219 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: and eventually, probably more so, through just the sheer, ungodly 220 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: amount of money Ticketmaster has, they were able to. They 221 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: were able to, as you say, prevail. So that brings 222 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 1: us to the modern day. Nineteen ninety seven, a company 223 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: called Interactive Corp, oddly enough, not a video game company, 224 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: perch is the majority stake and Ticketmaster, and then it 225 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: bought the rest of the company. In nineteen ninety eight, 226 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: the name changed to Ticketmaster Online. Dash City search doesn't 227 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: exactly roll off the tongue, right, No, So they didn't 228 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: care that it didn't roll off the tongue. The company expanded, diversified, 229 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: it kept evolving its business model, increasingly, going from phones 230 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: to online sales, and this constant evolution, the way of 231 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: many businesses right unfortunately, did not go in the direction 232 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: that critics wanted it to. They didn't see cheaper tickets, 233 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: they didn't feel like things were more transparent. These moves 234 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: did not quell all of the critics. And today Ticketmaster 235 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: controls an estimated eighty percent of the little more than 236 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: eighty percent of the ticketing market in North America. So 237 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: they're doing something right. But let's get back to the critics. 238 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: What are these critics saying. 239 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: Well, they're saying that we need to take a quick 240 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: break to hear from our sponsor and then we'll find 241 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 2: out what Ticketmaster may or may not have been getting into. 242 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. 243 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: So it turns out that in addition to be massively successful, 244 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: Ticketmaster has been accused of numerous abuses, breaches of law, 245 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: and shady business practices. There's genuine stuff they don't want 246 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: you to know here. It's probably not gonna stop, no 247 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: compellingnimpotus to stop it. And yes, Ticketmaster has been sued 248 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: for conspiracy. 249 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 2: Oh snap, the big c All right, let's take another 250 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: time traveling trip here to two thousand and nine. Bruce Springsteen. 251 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 2: Oh everybody knows Old Bruce the boss. Yeah, he is 252 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: the boss. He's your boss and my boss. He publicly 253 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: calls out ticket Master in two thousand and nine for 254 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: a little let's say misdirection, redirection if you will, from 255 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: a website. So as fans were going and trying to 256 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: buy tickets through Ticketmaster to the Springsteen concert. They were 257 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 2: getting sent to this other place called ticket now dot com, 258 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 2: completely separate site. It looks very different. There's no you know, 259 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: when you're on that site, you don't understand what's happening. 260 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: You feel like a pop up maybe has occurred, or 261 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: you've gotten redirected through an ad maybe. 262 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: Or this is your last chance to get some kind 263 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: of ticket to see the Boss live. 264 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's a certain desperation that's happening when you 265 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 2: are being redirected to this ticketnow dot com because guess what, 266 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 2: the tickets are marked up by hundreds, sometimes thousands of 267 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: dollars at ticket now versus Ticketmaster. So then all these 268 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: fan complaints are coming through because of this weird steering 269 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 2: to the place called tickets Now. A New Jersey congressman 270 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: gets a call and basically this guy says, Hey, we 271 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: need a federal anti trust investigation into whatever the heck 272 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 2: is going on between Ticketmaster and ticket now. What is this? 273 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 2: Let's figure this out. 274 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, so here's what they find. They find that ticket Now, 275 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: in addition to having a very similar name to Ticketmaster, 276 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: is owned by Ticketmaster, and when Bruce Springsteen's fans were 277 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: going to a website to buy tickets to his show, 278 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: they were automatically redirected to ticket now, which, as he said, 279 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: Matt sells tickets for much higher than their face value, 280 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: and it prais on that desperation, right, that's psychological fear 281 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: that someone else will get the thing I want. So, 282 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: you know, I may not necessarily think this is a 283 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: good financial decision, but I will be gosh darned and 284 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: gollie ged if I allow somebody else to get that ticket. 285 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 3: You know what I mean. 286 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: It's an artificial scarcity essentially. Bruce Springsteen found out about it, 287 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: and he was righteously indignant. He wrote a public statement 288 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: about this, because what you found out was that this 289 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: sort of second chance or reselling site ticket now was 290 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: something that Ticketmaster was sending the audience to when there 291 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: were still regular tickets available. So they could have gotten 292 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: that you know, thirty or forty whatever dollar ticket to 293 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: sit on the lawn in the back, yeah, and have 294 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: a great time. But instead they were going directly to 295 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: this place where it was you know, this huge markup, 296 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: and that markup goes to Ticketmaster man. So Ticketmaster gets 297 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: a fifteen percent cut from tickets Now, which it owns. 298 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: That's in addition to the fees that already gets as Ticketmaster, 299 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: so that that money has already spent and baked into 300 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: the price. So a lawsuit comes about, and essentially what 301 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: they're doing is making money off the same ticket two times. Clever, 302 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: you know, brilliant, very clever, evil, lawful evil, and so 303 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: probably because Egenstein himself took such a strong stance against it, 304 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: Ticketmaster issued an apology to the fans and said, we 305 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: will refund you the price difference between the face value 306 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: of the tickets and those you got from ticket Now, 307 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: which is a lot of you know, it's a lot 308 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: of scratch. But that's also that's also like being caught stealing, 309 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, being caught stealing a car and then saying, ah, 310 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm gonna drive it back to your house. Yeah, 311 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: and then what like, I feel bad, you. 312 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:02,239 Speaker 2: Know, some gas money here just a little bit. 313 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: No, they didn't, they didn't, but it's strange, right, And 314 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: this is just one of the allegations against ticket Master. 315 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: We've got that Pearl Jam example. But let's talk about 316 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: those fees, because that's where a lot of this comes 317 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: back in, right, Have you ever bought a twenty dollars 318 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: ticket only to find that it becomes more than forty 319 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: dollars by the time you get to the actual place 320 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: your order? 321 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: No? Never, oh never, This is never Tabernacle. 322 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: That's a that's a local venue here at Atlanta Tabernacle. 323 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: What kind of fees have you run. 324 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 2: Into literally twice as much? I mean it, Yeah, I've 325 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 2: seen I have seen tickets double when I buy them 326 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 2: for just a local venue here because of ticket Master's 327 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 2: weird fees to get me my ticket somehow that I 328 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 2: can print out already. 329 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like a two to five dollars fee for 330 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: getting a PDF. Essentially you can. 331 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: Print somebody I'm paying some salary who's just on a 332 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 2: floor somewhere making calls like I need three Pearl Jam 333 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 2: but like, no, no, I got four radio Head. 334 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: No. 335 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: It's like it has to be that to justify twenty 336 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: or thirty dollars fees on top of everything else. Otherwise 337 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 2: I do not understand. 338 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're absolutely right. There's a there's a service charge, 339 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: and that will be ticket Masters charging you for the 340 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: privilege of it giving you a ticket. Yeah, and then 341 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: there's the facility charge, which is a charge added by 342 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: the venue. So ticket Master takes its cut, and then 343 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: the Tabernacle, for example, takes its cut. And then there 344 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: are shipping, convenience and processing charges. So that's a charge 345 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: for you know, using your visa American Express, that's a 346 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: charge for having the tickets delivered to you via post 347 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: wow or using your own printer. 348 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, but then who who pays Cardi B? Then is 349 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 2: what I'm trying to figure out, Like who what's her cut? 350 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: Everybody else has taken their cut. Who's where's Cardib's money? 351 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: Unless you're a huge name artist, which I guess Cardi 352 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: B is. Now, the amount of money you get per 353 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: ticket can be surprisingly alarmingly small because the label will 354 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: take some money, you know what I mean, your road 355 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: crew will take some money, and all this other stuff. 356 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: Craft services eat that cheese because it's coming out of 357 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: your cut. Other profits. Right, But all this adds up 358 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: to an unpleasant experience for people when we're buying these tickets. 359 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,479 Speaker 1: The problem is there's not really any transparency with this. 360 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: Fees between events vary even at the same venue, and 361 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: preferences of the artist as well. Some people will try 362 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: to buck like Radiohead or Pearl Jam. And the problem 363 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: with it is that none of this, none of this 364 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: ultimately goes into a situation where in ticket prices are lower. 365 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: None of this is meant to nor will it. 366 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 2: Ever create It cannot. 367 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, none of this is meant to create a 368 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: situation where artists get paid more and the audience pays less. 369 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. 370 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: If anything, It's kind of like, you know, nobody talks 371 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: about this, but it's pretty weird that you you know, 372 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: historically can't buy a car directly from the people who 373 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: make cars. 374 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 2: That is weird. 375 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: It's weird. It's a weird thing. It's normalized. Yeah, and 376 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not choosing sides on it, but that 377 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: that is something we think about. You know, you can 378 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: buy almost you can buy so many other things directly 379 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: from the people who make them direct sales. 380 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: Vertical integration is scary though, and it can be It 381 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: can be highly it can be highly problematic. 382 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it can also be dangerous for the bottom line. Right. So, 383 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: the allegation here is that Ticketmaster is sort of a 384 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: rent seeker and it's now a middle It's maybe it 385 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: needed to be in the process before everybody had a 386 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: brilliant computer on their phone. But now maybe it doesn't 387 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: have to be right. Maybe that kind of software is 388 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: easier to handle. We don't really know. We just know 389 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: that they are the largest game in town, and we 390 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: know that the entire operation is exceedingly opaque. We're going 391 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: to take a break for a brief word from our sponsor, 392 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: and then we'll come back with an investigation in Canada 393 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: that makes this even weirder. 394 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 2: All right, here's where it gets crazier. This is hard 395 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 2: for me to understand that this is real. Okay, what 396 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: we're going to talk about from now, mostly through the 397 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 2: rest of this episode, we got from a CBC News 398 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 2: investigation that was carried out and specifically there's a journalist 399 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 2: named Dave Seglins who actually physically went undercover as a 400 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 2: scalper at a ticket industry convention out there in Las Vegas. 401 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 2: And you can watch a video of this online right now. 402 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 2: If you want to take a break, you can you 403 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 2: can search us up CBC ticket Master. 404 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: New Yes segment l I N S. 405 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 2: That's good, you'll find it. Check it out. It's pretty crazy. 406 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: Could we set some just some axiomatic beginnings here. 407 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure. 408 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: Okay, So so imagine your ticketmaster. You make money selling tickets. Okay, 409 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: you want people to buy tickets from you, definitely. 410 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: Sure doesn't matter who that person is buying a ticket 411 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 2: from you, as long as somebody's buying a ticket from you, right. 412 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: Right, as long as the transaction occurs. But you want 413 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: to be on the side of the people and the artists, 414 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: and you probably say hey, at least in public, you 415 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: say hey, I think scalpers are the worst and they 416 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: take advantage of people. 417 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, because we want you to have low prices and 418 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 2: see all the stuff you want to see. Don't be 419 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 2: mad at us. 420 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: Right, So it's established then in the public mind, the 421 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: axiom is that ticket distributors, or these middle segments between 422 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: the artists and the event and the customer, that they 423 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: should not be down with scalpers Like you guys are 424 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: making it weird. You're making it worse. I don't want 425 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: to be in a situation where, for instance, there are oh, 426 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: what's a great what's a great event that people would 427 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: go to today, like a band or a perform it's 428 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: alien con sure, alien con. They're only yeah, it's a 429 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: one night only four hundred four hundred seat event and 430 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: it's called Alien con who knows what it is. Maybe 431 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: it's a mariachi band, and they Ticketmaster, one would assume, 432 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: does not care for a situation when one person goes 433 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: in and buys all four hundred or whatever of those 434 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: tickets in one block and then turns around and sells 435 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: them for fifty percent more on you know eBay. 436 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. We basically Ticketmaster is not down with opt right 437 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 2: other people's tickets. They don't. They're like, look, these these 438 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,959 Speaker 2: are the people's tickets. 439 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: Right, right, right, So what that's what we assumed, right, yeah, 440 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: And it turns say right, and it turns out that 441 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: we were very wrong, no, like cartoonishly. 442 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 2: So they're they're quite all right with anyone buying their 443 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 2: share of the tickets as long as those tickets get sold, 444 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 2: and especially if Ticketmaster can sell the tickets twice. What 445 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 2: what are we talking about? Okay, let's go back to 446 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 2: Las Vegas at that convention. So ticket Master, he's recording 447 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 2: Ticketmaster at least some representatives from Ticketmaster. Maybe that's the 448 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 2: best way to say it. Sure are these representatives are 449 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:29,959 Speaker 2: pitching scalpers on their Ticketmaster's trademarked professional reseller program that 450 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 2: they have established. Okay, Now, according to the investigation that 451 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: you'll follow Dave Seglins through with the CBC News investigation, 452 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 2: Ticketmaster was not only just deciding that if scalping is happening, 453 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: we're just going to put blinders on and pretend that 454 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 2: it's not happening. They're also literally recruiting people, professional people 455 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 2: who've been scalping for a long time or maybe are 456 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 2: very good at scalping to cheat the ticket master uster 457 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 2: system itself, to expand their Ticketmaster's resale business and again 458 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 2: to take more money from the people that are just 459 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 2: trying to go out and see a concert or an 460 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 2: event or something. So, just to recap, it's Ticketmaster teaching 461 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 2: scalpers to scalp Ticketmaster for their own profit, for Ticketmaster's profit. 462 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so. 463 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 3: They have. 464 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: They've done more than turn a blind eye. They've they've 465 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: gotten too a win win situation with scalpers and Ticketmaster. Right, 466 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,959 Speaker 1: So this is before the average concert goer. This is 467 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: this is the part of the movie where the bad 468 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: guys team up and one sales rep is on camera saying, 469 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: I have brokers that have literally a couple of hundred 470 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: accounts it's not something that we look at or report 471 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: because they wanted these scalpers to feel that they were 472 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: that they were safe in this Ticketmaster, for its part, 473 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: denied the accusations. And once again, you can always go 474 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: back to the idea that actions by a few people 475 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: in an organization do not automatically mean the entire organization 476 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: condone it right tale as old as time. That's what 477 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: any intelligence agency will say when it's undeniably caught doing 478 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: something terrible. 479 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be like. 480 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: Well, that guy decided to topple that country on his own, 481 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: and we always knew that, We always knew that Jeremy 482 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: was a little bit off. 483 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is all compartmentalized anyway. Only a very few, 484 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 2: small number of people knew anything about that. 485 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I'm weirded out hearing about it today, Congresswoman. 486 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: This was the first first I've heard of it, and 487 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: I've got to tell you, frankly, I am outraged. 488 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 2: Well you know what I am too, And I hope 489 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 2: you get to the bottom of it. And congratulations on 490 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 2: all your work. 491 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. I'll be speaking at Georgetown this 492 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: coming Friday. It's one one night only you can oh, yeah, 493 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: you can get tickets through a Ticketmaster or if those 494 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: are sold out, go ahead to Yeah it is sold out, well, 495 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: go to ticket now, Okay, tickets now, so and scene. 496 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: So Ticketmaster developed a toolkit for these scalpers. It is 497 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: a professional. They don't call them scalpers, they call them resellers. 498 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: A professional reseller program that they launched. 499 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: Called used Tickets pre Owned tickets. 500 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: Called it Certified pre Owned, called Trade Desk. Trade Desk 501 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: is a quote web based inventory management system for scalpers. 502 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: The company calls it the most powerful ticket sales tool ever. 503 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: So here's what it allows you to do. You can 504 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: buy a block of tickets from Ticketmaster through one of 505 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: its many faces, and then you can upload those tickets 506 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: to this trade Desk thing, and then you can just 507 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: list them again for resale. This means you can hike 508 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: or drop prices on tons and tons of tickets based 509 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: on what you think fans are looking for. So it 510 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: turns it into almost a stock market kind of thing. 511 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: Neither Trade Desk nor the professional reseller program are mentioned 512 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: anywhere on Ticketmaster's website. You can go check we looked, 513 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: it's not there. It's also not listed on any of 514 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: its corporate reports. If you want to find the Trade 515 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: Desk website, you first have to send in a registration request. 516 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 2: So let's go ahead and take a look at what happens. 517 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: If you do get through that registration process, you do 518 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 2: have one of these things like an account there, and 519 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 2: you are reselling things. Let's see what Ticketmaster actually gets 520 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 2: out of this whole process. So, just as an example, 521 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 2: let's say Ticketmaster is gonna sell a ticket for a 522 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 2: little over two hundred dollars. Two hundred nine dollars and 523 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: fifty cents. Okay, that's just the price of the ticket. 524 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 2: Ticket Master itself is gonna collect twenty five dollars and 525 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 2: seventy five cents just on that initial sale. Now when 526 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 2: the owner, now if because we're saying this is through 527 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 2: Trade Desk, the owner who's just purchased it through Trade Desk, 528 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 2: then puts it back up for resale for roughly twice 529 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 2: as much as it's the original cost, let's say four 530 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 2: hundred dollars the company. Then ticket Master stands to collect 531 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: an additional seventy six dollars on that same ticket. So 532 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 2: so again you're looking at over one hundred dollars that 533 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 2: you're gonna make out of six hundred dollars in total 534 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 2: of sales. 535 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: And at this point that's legal too. Yeah, it's not 536 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: against the law. 537 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's just a way to make sure that 538 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 2: tickets get sold at least if you're looking at from 539 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 2: the company's perspective trade desk, basically that every ticket is 540 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 2: going to get sold in some way from that initial sale. 541 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: The idea being that, you know, if you want that, 542 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: the idea being that the lever moves us and down 543 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: so you could lower prices. Maybe day of ticket sales 544 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: aren't where you want them to be. So someone says, 545 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: all right, now this is no longer two hundred dollars. 546 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: It's one hundred and fifty dollars. 547 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 2: Let's see what happens, right, Yeah, And there are strategies 548 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 2: that kind of line up with that. At the like 549 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,959 Speaker 2: towards the end of a concert or something, or towards 550 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 2: the end of a big game, people there will still 551 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 2: be scalpers outside of a well, okay, there will be 552 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 2: resellers outside of a venue selling tickets for you know, 553 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 2: pennies on the dollar if this show is almost over 554 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 2: or something to get people in just to finally make 555 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 2: a tiny bit of money on that thing and that 556 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 2: that exists throughout these markets. 557 00:34:53,960 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, we do want to say that while while 558 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 1: we did mention that ticket Master denied the allegations brought 559 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: by this investigative report, maybe it'll be helpful for us 560 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: to give the actual language that they used in denying 561 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: this allegation. What do you think? 562 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 2: Absolutely? 563 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: All right, So, after the story was published there in 564 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: CBC News, Ticketmaster issued a statement that went out to 565 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 1: CBC's News, but then also went out to other places 566 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: that are reported on the stories, such as The Rolling Stone, 567 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: saying it was quote categorically untrue the Ticketmaster has any 568 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: program in place to enable resellers to acquire large volumes 569 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: of tickets. It also said it had already begun an 570 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: internal review of professional reseller accounts and employee practices before 571 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: the CBC News story came out. So they said, look, 572 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: we've already been investigating this internally and we would never 573 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: try to game the system in the way that you're describing. Again, 574 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: a represent from Ticketmaster is on camera completely completely doing 575 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: what they say, what they're denying. 576 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, the biggest, the biggest thing that Ticketmaster had a 577 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 2: problem with was that that representative acknowledged of acknowledged the 578 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 2: knowledge that one person essentially would have two hundred accounts, right, 579 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 2: or if one entity or one group would have two 580 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 2: hundred trade desk accounts. That's that's where the big problem 581 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 2: comes in. 582 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is a situation where the money got 583 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: too good. Is a situation where where finally maybe as 584 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 1: the public or the uninitiated scene into a previously murky. 585 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: World, that's very possible. I would go ahead and just 586 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 2: say it makes me think of something we discussed at 587 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 2: the very beginning of a competitive marketplace, essentially and having 588 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 2: to always evolve, like consistently evolving to make sure that 589 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 2: you are making more profit so that you can increase 590 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 2: your margins year every year, or you know, you increase 591 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 2: your percentage overall of gross income year every year, like 592 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,280 Speaker 2: having to find new creative ways as a giant company 593 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,359 Speaker 2: like Ticketmaster and it's you know, parent companies and all that. 594 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 2: These kinds of reselling, it's another way to increase those 595 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 2: margins that isn't necessarily illegal if you take out the 596 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 2: some of the things from this, you know, some of 597 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 2: the things were illegal, but not many. Right, The reselling market, 598 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 2: as terrible as it sounds, and as bad as it 599 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 2: is for consumers such as us, it's just another one 600 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 2: of those ways to grab more money. 601 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: Allegedly illegal, well, definitely illegal, but that the allegedly did. 602 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, apologies because. 603 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: It hasn't been an I don't think it's necessary. This 604 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: is just we're just being as fair as we can. Yes, yes, 605 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: so as you can tell by the use of the 606 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: phrase allegedly and the fact that we're being fairly careful 607 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: about how we discussed this. Ticketmaster has been in and 608 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: out of court. In twenty eighteen, they suffered a data breach, 609 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: and in twenty nineteen a British law firm launched legal 610 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: action against them for affecting up to forty thousand UK customers. 611 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: And also in twenty eighteen, the US Department of Justice 612 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: launched an investigation following complaints that Live Nation, an event promoter, 613 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:39,399 Speaker 1: had engaged in anti competitive practices following their merger with Ticketmaster. 614 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: There's an organization called Enschutz Entertainment Group, and they said 615 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: Live Nation pressured them into using Ticketmaster as a vendor, 616 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: and had they refused, they would have lost out on business. 617 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: The allegations of anti trust violations resulted in a re 618 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: examination of the merger between Ticketmaster and Live Nation. However, 619 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: this case is probably going into well many of these 620 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: cases are going into arbitration, private settlements. No need to 621 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: have a shameful day in court. And at this point 622 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: Ticketmaster is very little in the way of real competition. 623 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 1: There are other things in the market, sure, but they're 624 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: gnats to Ticketmaster's beheamoth right. And the question then is, 625 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: I mean, clearly there's some stuff they don't want you 626 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 1: to know that's inarguable it's not necessarily criminal. Like for instance, okay, 627 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: think of airline tickets depending on which way you go 628 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: through an airline, or think of privatized insurance. People don't 629 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,879 Speaker 1: want you to know the lowest price you can get. 630 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: They want you to get confused and bored and desperate 631 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: enough to just take the easiest thing. That's a that 632 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: is a very clear, an unfortunately disturbing explanation of how 633 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: all three of those industries. 634 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 2: Work, and really most industries, everyone's just trying to get 635 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 2: you to take the easiest option for you, and it 636 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 2: depends on where you are in life times ticket but 637 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 2: here's the easiest one for your social strata. 638 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, You're not looking for mister right price. You're 639 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 1: looking for mister right now, price right. 640 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 2: Start applying that to social interactions, and now it's just, oh, 641 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 2: we've gone down a rabbit hole. 642 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: I should have I should have quit while we were 643 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: ahead with the with the insurance airplane ticket thing. But yeah, 644 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: it's it's true, and there's probably not going to be 645 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: any anything that really stops this practice. There will be 646 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: things that mitigate it. The problem is that the established 647 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: system has caught up to technological breakthroughs only in the 648 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: ways that can improve its profit while maintaining its position. 649 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: The technology that we have now to organize, distribute, and 650 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: track these sorts of things is amazing. If you were 651 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: from the nineteen seventies and you've looked at it, you 652 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: would think was mind blowing, you know what I mean, 653 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: unless you already worked for DARPA or something, you would 654 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: be like, how did that get out here? But the 655 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 1: problem is that even though we're we have the potential 656 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,399 Speaker 1: to democratize the access to these tickets in a way 657 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: that would benefit the creators and benefit the customers, we're 658 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: not seeing that. When will that happen? When will there 659 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,280 Speaker 1: be some sort of market disruption? 660 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 2: No? 661 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:46,839 Speaker 1: No, and at this point, has ticket Master done anything 662 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: thoroughly illegal. No, they haven't been convicted. None of the 663 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: CEOs have ever gone to jail. The creators certainly never 664 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: got in trouble. 665 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, in two thousand and nine, that whole conspiracy suit 666 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 2: was out there, didn't really go anywhere. 667 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 1: Right, right. So the question then goes to us, fellow 668 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: conspiracy realists, is this just how this business should be run? 669 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,959 Speaker 1: And what what are other businesses that you have seen 670 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: that your that your fellow listeners may not be aware of, 671 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: Like we've we've seen some We've seen some strange things 672 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: going on in the funeral service industry. We've seen some 673 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: strange things going on of course here in the event 674 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: and ticketing industry. But where else, I wonder where else 675 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: is everything just crazy, crooked appearing to be crooked. I 676 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: have to say so that we don't get superbl to that. 677 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 2: End, to that end, I want to I want to 678 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 2: pick your brain, Ben about the mechanic big mechanic industry 679 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 2: with some of these bigger companies out there that that 680 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 2: offer repairs to vehicles and automobiles. 681 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: Sou mean like not just straight up garages, but box 682 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: automotive stores that are also garages or service centers. 683 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,719 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, the big ones that are nationwide. I'd like 684 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 2: to talk about some of those. See if there are 685 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,840 Speaker 2: any conspiracies out there. So maybe maybe if you're listening 686 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 2: and you know, have you heard of anything, let us 687 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 2: know what you've heard. 688 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: I will that's that's great, I will say on that. 689 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: On that note, there is one thing that sounds a 690 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: bit curmudgelingally for me to say, but I think it's 691 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: a good point. It's one thing that bugs me about 692 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: modern car repairs. Over the past few years, cars have 693 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 1: increasingly become something that the person who owns it cannot 694 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: work on. Have you noticed that? Yeah, there are more 695 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: and more black boxes proliferating under the hood. 696 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely, and just lack of experience, lack of knowledge. 697 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: I just feel like, call me old fashioned, but I 698 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 1: feel like if you if you buy a car, it 699 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: should be something that you own that it shouldn't have 700 00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: to be a service, you know what I mean. We're 701 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 1: moving increasingly into a service economy. It is going to 702 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: scare your children listening now, when when you say, yeah, 703 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: people used to like buy things and then have them, 704 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,879 Speaker 1: I'm like, what for how much a month? Yeah, like no, no, 705 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,800 Speaker 1: like you would just you would just buy one sandwich 706 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 1: and you would eat it. 707 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well it goes back to that superpower thing of 708 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 2: money and time and I don't have time to work 709 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 2: on this vehicle. I'll give it to you and you 710 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,880 Speaker 2: fix it. Here's some of my superpower. 711 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 1: Or signing an agreement for instance, it says you are 712 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 1: not allowed to have anybody else work kind of thing, right, 713 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,760 Speaker 1: like Apple has done this very well. Yeah, anyhow, story 714 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: for another day. Thank you so much for you, and 715 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: we want to hear also your most egregious concert ticket 716 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: or event ticket fee story. Did you really go into 717 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,840 Speaker 1: some website thinking you were gonna pay eighteen bucks and 718 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: then come out like thirty bucks later, bewildered and confused? 719 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, did you try get into a Foo fighter's concert 720 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 2: and then you realized, wait, it's four hundred dollars and 721 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 2: then you just said. 722 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: Bye, oh man, Yeah, tell us your stories. Uh, And 723 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,919 Speaker 1: that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't wait 724 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts. We try to be easy to 725 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 1: find online. Find this at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where 726 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 1: we exist on Facebook X and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok. 727 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: We're conspiracy stuff show. 728 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 2: Call our number. It's one eight three three std WYTK, 729 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:29,920 Speaker 2: leave a voicemail. 730 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: And if you have more to say, we can't wait 731 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: to hear from you at our good old fashioned email 732 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: address where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 733 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production 734 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 735 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.