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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast. George Nori

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Speaker 1: with you, Jim Barfield back with us. Jim as the

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Speaker 1: director of the Copper Scroll Project. Now his personal interest

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Speaker 1: in Bible study led him to the Dead Sea Scrolls

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Speaker 1: where he came across the least understandable scroll of all.

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Speaker 1: It's called the Copper Scroll. It describes gold, silver, gems,

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Speaker 1: and temple artifacts which, upon discovery, will signal the coming

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Speaker 1: of end times. Jim is a retired criminal investigator multiple

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Speaker 1: career positions. After his retirement in two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: he founded the Copper Scroll Project and began traveling to

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Speaker 1: Israel to confirm his research on the ancient documents and

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Speaker 1: development relationships with these Raeleigh government and civil leaders to

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Speaker 1: conduct in excavation of the ruins of Cumran to discover

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Speaker 1: the fifty seven potential hordes of temple treasures that are

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Speaker 1: buried under the National Park. Jim, welcome back. How you been.

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Speaker 1: It's been a while, it has been. How are you,

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Speaker 1: mister Noor? Everything is good and how's the project coming along? Well?

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Speaker 1: The pandemic really put put the Brakes on things. We'd

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Speaker 1: actually been out of business for about, oh, I guess

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Speaker 1: a little over a year and a half. Now we've

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Speaker 1: still been We've still been doing some projects and speaking

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Speaker 1: in a lot of places, but actually getting back to Israel.

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Speaker 1: It's it's put a stop to that. The Israelis are

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Speaker 1: really strict about the h COVID nineteen stuff. So we

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Speaker 1: are we are getting ready to go back over hopefully

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Speaker 1: in January. How did you get involved in this project

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Speaker 1: in the first place, Joe, It's just like you said

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Speaker 1: in your introduction, I was was a Bible study. Sounds

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Speaker 1: crazy and it sounds incredibly par affect, but it really

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Speaker 1: was as my Bible study. I got to study in

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Speaker 1: and I realized that, you know, in thirty a d.

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Speaker 1: There were three main groups. There were the sages, Pharisees,

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Speaker 1: and the as Scenes, but the New Testament appeared never

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Speaker 1: to mention the Aescenes. And since Jesus opposed the other

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Speaker 1: two groups, Spharisees and Sageses, I focused on the Aescenes.

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Speaker 1: And all the ancient historians Bilo, Plenegal, Cephas really spoke

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Speaker 1: highly of the Assains. So I started studying those guys

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Speaker 1: and Georgia. It was just incredible how much the Ascenes

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Speaker 1: were praised by these men. And then I started getting

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Speaker 1: a deeper into it, and the amazing similarities turned into

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Speaker 1: really undeniable parallels and teachings, religious practices, financial observations, material

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Speaker 1: ownership rules, in time requirements for the promotions within the

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Speaker 1: for the scenes that matched the group the disciples, of

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Speaker 1: the groups of John the Baptists and Jesus exactly. And

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Speaker 1: that's why I got to study an interest, and the

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Speaker 1: more I study into it, I got to I got

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Speaker 1: to the books about the community rule and that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing, and I realized that their names, even the

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Speaker 1: names the titles of the groups that Jesus and John

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Speaker 1: the Baptists were with, the poor, the Sons of Light,

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Speaker 1: the Way, the Brethren, the Many, the Lot of mel Kzadek,

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Speaker 1: which is better known as the mel Kzadek Order, they

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Speaker 1: were all the same names that they were using in

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Speaker 1: the Bible for the disciples and the minute Jesus and

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Speaker 1: John the Baptists were working with. Even the Book of Hebrews,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of details about the order in there

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Speaker 1: that actually says that Jesus was of the Lot of

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Speaker 1: mel Kzadek or the Mochezdek order. You've done your homework, Jimmy,

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, it was. It's just it's been amazing. And

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Speaker 1: you know what, let me I'm gonna be honest with you.

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Speaker 1: When I first got to Israel and I sat down

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Speaker 1: with the director director General for the Antiquitis Authority, the

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Speaker 1: guy thought other than that. And you know, I understood,

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Speaker 1: here's the guy from Oklahoma going to Israel, sitting down

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Speaker 1: with the head of the antiquitious Authority and his wife.

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Speaker 1: They had invited me to a room, or not a room,

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Speaker 1: but a kind of a parlor at the sider of

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Speaker 1: the hotel in downtown Jerusalem. But you know what, after

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Speaker 1: about five minutes of talking to the guy, he just

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Speaker 1: he just loved it. And he grabbed his phone, and

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Speaker 1: I thought he was angry at first. He grabbed his

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Speaker 1: phone out of his bag and he called it set

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Speaker 1: up a meeting between me and Yettog Magan and you've

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Speaker 1: all pele, you've all peal. It was actually the archaeologist

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Speaker 1: that worked at Kumaron. He loved it, and he and

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Speaker 1: I had some more meetings, and that's how these things

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Speaker 1: really began to happen. And when we last talked, which

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Speaker 1: was about four years ago, has anything changed over the

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Speaker 1: past four years in terms of information, Yeah, there there

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Speaker 1: has been. There's been more information about Let me give

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Speaker 1: you an example. There's a in the Copper Scroll it

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Speaker 1: talks about a location called the Cliff of Judgment. In

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Speaker 1: that Cliff of Judgment or that story about Cliff of Judgment,

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Speaker 1: I began to study details around Kumarn and around the

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Speaker 1: surrounding cliffs. Well, there was a there was a place

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Speaker 1: called in the Talm that it's called the zook. That's

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Speaker 1: the place where the Israelis would would stand with the

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Speaker 1: priest or the man that escorted the goat, ze'll goat

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Speaker 1: out to the cliff, and would push him off of

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Speaker 1: the cliff. And oh my goodness, when I got to

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Speaker 1: do in the study on it, I pulled up I

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Speaker 1: pulled up a because I wasn't in Israel at the time,

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Speaker 1: I pulled up the Google Earth and as I zoomed

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Speaker 1: down on the spot that I thought might be the

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Speaker 1: place where they pushed the goat off the cliff, because

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Speaker 1: when they talked about it, they it said that the

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Speaker 1: goat would fall so far that it would it would

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Speaker 1: literally destroy the goat before it ever hit the ground,

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Speaker 1: and at the other end it just towards the beds.

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Speaker 1: It sounds horrible, but that's what happened. And the cliffs

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Speaker 1: around Komarn. I kind of thought initially that that was

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Speaker 1: going to be the place where they pushed the goat off.

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Speaker 1: It would kill the goat, but it wouldn't have It

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have done that much damage to it. So I

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Speaker 1: went to another place that's about a mile away, and

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Speaker 1: I zoomed in on it, and oh my goodness, there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a perfect spot there where they could see.

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Speaker 1: They could actually see Kumaron from there, and the people

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Speaker 1: at Kumaran could see the see the events taking place

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Speaker 1: with the goat. Did I talk to you about a

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Speaker 1: stone that set out at the south end of the

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Speaker 1: Kumaran complex. I can't recall, I don't think, so that's

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Speaker 1: what I thought. There is a stone. It's probably two

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Speaker 1: feet wide, two and a half feet long, and two

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Speaker 1: and a half feet tall. They talk about in the town,

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Speaker 1: which is like a major dictionary for Jewish information, They

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Speaker 1: have debates and then that sort of thing, and whether

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Speaker 1: they discuss it in what is called Yoma it means

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Speaker 1: the day like the day of atonement information and they

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Speaker 1: said that they would. They took a ribbon out to

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Speaker 1: this location near near Kumaran where they push it off,

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Speaker 1: and I measured it based on the information from the talmet.

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Speaker 1: I measured it and it was exactly the right distance

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Speaker 1: and if that will, maybe this is the place. So

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Speaker 1: I kept studying it, kept looking at it, and I

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Speaker 1: literally measured it out by the feet because with Google

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Speaker 1: Earth you can do that. You can measure the feet,

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Speaker 1: miles everything. What I found was this that spot matched

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Speaker 1: it exactly. And in the talment it said that they

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Speaker 1: took a piece of the ribbon tied it to the

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Speaker 1: door of the temple. It's a red ribbon, and then

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Speaker 1: they took another piece the day before and they went

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Speaker 1: out to a place where they observed it and they

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Speaker 1: tied it to a rock. I'm going to tell you

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Speaker 1: that that rock has got to be the spot because

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Speaker 1: it's a perfect place to locate yourself to see what's happening.

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Speaker 1: And it's got a whole board in it where you

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Speaker 1: could set a block of would to tie the ribbon

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Speaker 1: to and then the other piece of the ribbon. Of course,

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Speaker 1: when with a goat. Now this this sounds crazy because

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Speaker 1: I'm killing you. It's true. They would push the goat

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Speaker 1: off and if the goat, if God forgave the sins

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Speaker 1: of Israel, then the ribbon would turn white. And that's

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened. It was amazing. So anyway, I've

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Speaker 1: shown my research to some Israelis and there's a gentleman

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Speaker 1: in the United States that I showed it to. He

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Speaker 1: is a expert. He's an expert on all these things

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Speaker 1: that pertained to the temple. And he said, yeah, this, this,

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Speaker 1: my goodness, just makes so much more sense than whether

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Speaker 1: they say that this actually took place at jim I'd

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Speaker 1: like you to describe for folks the Dead Sea scrolls,

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Speaker 1: then we'll get into the Copper scroll. Of course, scrolls

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Speaker 1: were actually the place where they found all these It's

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Speaker 1: called a guineasa in Hebrews. That's a that's a place

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Speaker 1: for storing old documents. Well, they would store them in

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Speaker 1: these guineas as because they've got the name of God

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Speaker 1: on them. And if they anything that has the name

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Speaker 1: of God on it, they want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: it's protected because they hold the name of God in

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Speaker 1: such high esteem. Well, all these all these books scrolls

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Speaker 1: begin to get collected inside of these caves which they

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Speaker 1: used as guineas as storage places. Were they a little

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Speaker 1: like clay vases? Well, no, they're not little. They were

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Speaker 1: actually pretty big. They're about two and a half eat tall.

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Speaker 1: They get a clay lid and they're about, oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to say, about a foot in diameter, and there's

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Speaker 1: one scroll per vase. Now there's usually a couple of scrolls.

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Speaker 1: You would be surprised how tiny Whenever they print these scrolls,

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Speaker 1: they I would have to use my glasses and a

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Speaker 1: magnifying glass to be able to read them. They're just

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Speaker 1: tiny little letters. And so they could get because the

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Speaker 1: scrolls were difficult to make. They were made out of lambskin,

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Speaker 1: goat skin, ibex skins, and they would they would write

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Speaker 1: on them, they would line it out, they would cut it,

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Speaker 1: and then they'd sold each section of the lamb skin

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Speaker 1: together to make a to make a scroll. And they

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Speaker 1: rolled them up, Yes, they did. They rolled them up

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Speaker 1: just like like it sounds, into a scroll, usually two sided.

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Speaker 1: They'd roll it out on one side and then spin

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Speaker 1: it and turn it and be able to find the

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Speaker 1: locations that they wanted within the Bible. How many scrolls

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Speaker 1: were there hidden away there in the caves, every book

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Speaker 1: of the Bible except the New Testamon for what they

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Speaker 1: call the Tourum the writings, and in the profits all

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Speaker 1: the books were found, including the Books of Enoch, the

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Speaker 1: Book of Jubilees. The only one, the only one that

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Speaker 1: wasn't found was the Book of Esther. It hadn't been

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Speaker 1: found in there. Maybe it will be, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but that's the only one that was not there. But

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Speaker 1: it's the books about this sect, about the about the Ascenes,

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Speaker 1: their secular practices, that are most fascinating, And those are

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Speaker 1: the ones that drew me to them because they explained

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Speaker 1: so much about I mean, I absolutely believe that John

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Speaker 1: the Baptists and Jesus were both associated with very strongly

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Speaker 1: associated with the Ascenes at Kuman. Who are the ones

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Speaker 1: who apparently wrote the scrolls? Right? Yes? Yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how a lot of these experts don't

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Speaker 1: recognize these these things with the with the Escenes. There's

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Speaker 1: so many matching details about these scenes. It's impossible not

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Speaker 1: to recognize it. Sometimes it's almost like they don't want

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Speaker 1: people to realize and see what's there. There's Actually there's

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Speaker 1: a time that I was listening to the radio and

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Speaker 1: they were talking about a discovery at Kumrn. They had

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Speaker 1: found a grave that was made and they casket was

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Speaker 1: covered with mica, and they'd said it was obviously a

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Speaker 1: very important individual. The next day, I've never heard anything

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Speaker 1: about it since then. Who could that have possibly been?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm personally I think it could have

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Speaker 1: been Jeremiah or Ezekiel, any one of the prophets. Well,

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Speaker 1: for what period of time, Jim, do you think the

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Speaker 1: scuirrels were made? A couple of years, three years, four years?

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Speaker 1: How long do you think it took to make one

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Speaker 1: scroll to make all of them? Oh gosh, you're talking

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Speaker 1: hundreds of years? Yeah, oh gosh. Yeah, because they scenes

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Speaker 1: didn't pop up overnight. I absolutely believe that they are

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Speaker 1: the group that Samuel. He had a school of profits

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Speaker 1: and their studies were done out their dating studies of

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Speaker 1: Kumarn in the in the buildings, and Roland D. Beaux

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Speaker 1: actually just thought that that was the location where the

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Speaker 1: scenes had a college. So yeah, it was years, because

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Speaker 1: they would write a scroll and then another profit would

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Speaker 1: pop up. Let's say Samuel, for example, Samuel would hear

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Speaker 1: brit his scrolls there and of course they would copy them.

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Speaker 1: And they had a scriptorium within the ruins of Kumaran.

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Speaker 1: It was a long building, so they could stretch the

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Speaker 1: scrolls out. They had long table that they would put

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Speaker 1: the scrolls on, and they could write and recopy the scrolls.

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Speaker 1: And that's why it's so hard to date them other

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Speaker 1: than if they do carbon dating. Does it look like

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Speaker 1: one person may have been responsible for a number of

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Speaker 1: scrolls over a certain amount of years and then maybe

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Speaker 1: that person died and somebody else came in. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they based that primarily on just like they do nd

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Speaker 1: writing analysis. They look at it and it's like with

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Speaker 1: the copper scroll. You can see five different handwritings on

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Speaker 1: the copper scroll. So yes, I do believe that one

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Speaker 1: guy would you serve as time as describe, thank you ascribe,

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Speaker 1: and then another gentleman that step up and take the job,

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Speaker 1: because you hadn't had some skill to be able to

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Speaker 1: write that tiny and make it legible. And then you

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Speaker 1: have to think about it. Have you ever heard of

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Speaker 1: they gosh, can't think of they masusa? They put it

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Speaker 1: on the doors. You ever heard of those things. They're

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Speaker 1: a little they're a scroll from out a Duteronomy, and

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Speaker 1: they're tiny little scrolls, but they got an entire section

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Speaker 1: of Deuteronomy written on it. Well, they found one of them,

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Speaker 1: Kumaran one of these scrolls that can fit inside him.

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Speaker 1: A Masusa in the Bible says you shall put these

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Speaker 1: on the doorpost of your house, and you will read

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Speaker 1: about them when you guys up, when you go to bed,

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Well, they literally put them on

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Speaker 1: their doorposts, and those tiny little scrolls. They found one

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Speaker 1: of them and they had to have taken a hair,

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Speaker 1: dipped it in the ink and wrote the scroll. That's

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Speaker 1: how tiny they were. That's amazing. Do you think these

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Speaker 1: guys were skilled? Do you think the scrolls were dictated,

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Speaker 1: Jim or simply written out? I think they were dictated initially.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they were, because, for example, Jeremiah had his

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Speaker 1: own here yet his own scribe and came along with him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they had their own scribe. His Jeremiah's was Baruke David All.

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Speaker 1: He would sit down with him and they'd write these

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Speaker 1: the scrolls out in. Baruke even wrote had some of

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Speaker 1: his own writings or in the did scrolls, So basically

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Speaker 1: the scrolls are the Bible. Yeah, and I'm killing you

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Speaker 1: kum Rown. I don't know if I told you last

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Speaker 1: time I talked to you, But kum Ron, I was

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Speaker 1: doing a study and I was trying to I was

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Speaker 1: trying to determine some information about Kumron. So I was

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Speaker 1: looking for a map of Jerusalem at the time of Jeremiah.

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Speaker 1: I care about this, no, I I found a map

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Speaker 1: of Jerusalem, only I didn't recognize him. Of course, it

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Speaker 1: was written at the time of Jeremiah. A matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: when I saw it, I thought it was a map

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Speaker 1: of Jerusalem of kum On upside down. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: my goodness, why would this guy, whoever this was on

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Speaker 1: the website? Why would he put a map of Kumaran

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Speaker 1: on there for one thing? And then why would he

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Speaker 1: put it upside down? Well it wasn't. Yeah what happened.

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Speaker 1: Was it accurate though? Oh my gosh, yeah, I was accurate.

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Speaker 1: It was accurate as good as guys at that time

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Speaker 1: could couldn't make it. Listen to more Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: AM every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and go

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast am dot com for more