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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox

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Speaker 1: Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to

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Speaker 1: noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every

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Speaker 1: day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio

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Speaker 1: or FSR.

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Speaker 2: This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver

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Speaker 2: on Fox Sports Radio.

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Speaker 1: Oh it is a Thursday, Greg Cosell one hour from now,

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Speaker 1: Wild Show Yesterday All sorts of stuff cooking today. Jesse Minder,

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Speaker 1: new coach of the Ravens, will be stopping by. I

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Speaker 1: think he's one of the four coaching hires John Harbass Defanski,

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Speaker 1: Robert Salad, Jesse Mintter. Those four I feel very very

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Speaker 1: strongly about everything else, Dice roll, So I want to

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Speaker 1: start with this. Whenever there's a big, big, big story,

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Speaker 1: a controversy, there's two or three or four in the

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Speaker 1: country or reporters I lean on and make sure I

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Speaker 1: read their columns for some contextualization. Ian O'Connor is probably

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Speaker 1: my most consistent columnist I trust for perspective, and I

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Speaker 1: read his story at The Athletic this morning about Belichick

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Speaker 1: being snubbed in the Hall of Fame, and sure enough,

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Speaker 1: multiple sources saying it is spygate.

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Speaker 3: Spygate.

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Speaker 1: Some did bring up, according to the article, that he

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Speaker 1: won forty five percent of his games without Brady and

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Speaker 1: often was embarrassing, But it was overwhelmingly, according to multiple sources,

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Speaker 1: spygate that kept him out for a year. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: once again I will say, nobody kicked Bill out of

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Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame and nobody is banning him forever.

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Speaker 1: He is getting a brief slap on the wrist for

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Speaker 1: not just one spy gate. I think many of you

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Speaker 1: have forgotten. There were two spy Gate, both times New

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Speaker 1: England had to surrender excellent draft picks. Ask yourself this, folks,

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Speaker 1: when's the last time your favorite team lost a first

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Speaker 1: round pick or a third or your coach was fined

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Speaker 1: a million dollars?

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Speaker 3: Oh? The answers never.

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Speaker 1: The NFL doesn't do that, and they don't like to

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Speaker 1: do that to the reigning dynasty at the time. But

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Speaker 1: what is amazing to me about yesterday's reaction to Belichick.

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Speaker 1: I find this funny. I was at the other network

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Speaker 1: for most of the Dynasty. I stopped taking phone calls

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Speaker 1: on it. You couldn't take a Patriot call. Everybody constantly

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Speaker 1: said you can't trust these guys, and Gate this, and

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Speaker 1: gate that, you can't trust ninety nine percent of the

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Speaker 1: people that weren't Patriot fans always labeled them cheaters. And

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Speaker 1: yet yesterday those same fans are outraged that the voters

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Speaker 1: listened to you and said, we're gonna We're gonna punish him,

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Speaker 1: not the whole team, not Brady, not Craft. We're got

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Speaker 1: punished Bill, who you know is the CEO of the

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Speaker 1: football operation. We gonna punish him, probably for a year.

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Speaker 1: Gotta sleep on the couch. Seth Wickersham, great reporter at

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Speaker 1: the other place ESPN, talked about spygate and why that

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Speaker 1: was the problem for some of the voters, not all.

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Speaker 4: Some Look, they were taping it from the illegal location

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Speaker 4: for seven years before they got caught. You know, the

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Speaker 4: league had sent Belichick three letters warning him to stop,

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Speaker 4: and he didn't do it. So there was like an

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Speaker 4: entire perception that the league was covering up and swept

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Speaker 4: all this stuff under the rug for Belichick and for

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Speaker 4: Robert Kraft. You know, we wrote about Bill Pullian in

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Speaker 4: the article. You know those teams that had to compete

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Speaker 4: against Belichick haven't forgotten those things.

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Speaker 3: Nor would they ever, nor would you.

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Speaker 1: Patriots won a lot of close games and had multiple

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Speaker 1: pull six and seven figure finds for the coach lost

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Speaker 1: a first round pick, a couple of those, a third

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Speaker 1: round pick. He's going to get in. This is not

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Speaker 1: Pete Rose. But can we go to this excuse? I

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Speaker 1: heard a lot yesterday. Everybody does it. So if you

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Speaker 1: got pulled over on the road, you had a couple

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Speaker 1: of cocktails and the cop pulls you over, you're a

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Speaker 1: little tipsy. You turn to the cop, roll down the

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Speaker 1: window and go hey, I mean, everybody does it. Would

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Speaker 1: he say be on your way? If you were audited

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Speaker 1: by the IRS, a couple of IRS agents come into

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Speaker 1: your business, open that file, cabinet or you know that

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Speaker 1: disc that file and you just said, hey, listen, I

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Speaker 1: know it looks a little shady, but uh, everybody does it.

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Speaker 1: Would they just walk out and go be on your way?

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Speaker 1: Keep doing what you do, folks. It was called an

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Speaker 1: illegal an illegal taping operation. That's not what I'm calling it.

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Speaker 1: That's what the league called it. The everybody does it

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Speaker 1: excuse makes you and I sleep better. That doesn't get

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Speaker 1: you past a governing body, a sanctioning body, a cop

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Speaker 1: on the freeway, after a couple of bruis, past the

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Speaker 1: IRS agents. You know, there's a reason guys sleep on

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Speaker 1: the couch. Everybody doesn't pass a smell test at home either.

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Speaker 1: It just makes you sleep a little better. So when

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Speaker 1: an NFL franchise is levied huge seven figure finds and

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Speaker 1: loses first round picks and a third round pick, I

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Speaker 1: think it's reasonable.

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Speaker 3: Reasonable. I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's reasonable to push the pause button for a year.

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Speaker 1: For the record, Jim Harball was banned for an illegal

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Speaker 1: taping operation for fourteen years by the NCAA. The everybody

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Speaker 1: does it excuse and I think fourteen years is ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: And I do think everybody in college to some degree

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Speaker 1: does it. The NCAA, that cop on the freeway, your wife,

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Speaker 1: the IRS agent, the Hall of Fame voters, they don't care.

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Speaker 1: Not everybody ends up in Super Bowls. So we were

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Speaker 1: talking to the staff this morning. It was kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about Sam Donald wins his Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: You know, everybody always likes to do tiers and lists

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Speaker 1: for quarterbacks. Hell do you do with Sam Darnold. So

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Speaker 1: of the many quality things about him, good guy, tough,

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Speaker 1: big arm, athletic, still only twenty eight, team friendly deal,

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Speaker 1: not much of a cap hit. The other thing is

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Speaker 1: he stays healthy. Joe Burrow doesn't. Rock Purty doesn't. Lamar

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Speaker 1: Jackson's missed an entire year of games in his career.

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Speaker 1: He is almost always healthy. What's funny about the quarterback position?

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Speaker 1: If you take out Josh Allen, just take out Josh Allen,

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Speaker 1: superman six six two fifth, the unbelievably mobile, huge arm.

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Speaker 1: Is there any quarterback in the league you're absolutely sure

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Speaker 1: is going to win double digit games next year? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I love Drake May He's got more turnovers and touchdowns

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Speaker 1: in the playoffs so far.

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Speaker 3: He's still learning on the job.

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Speaker 1: I love Caleb Williams. What's his career completion percentage? He's

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Speaker 1: still growing. I mean again, Lamar Jackson, what about him?

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Speaker 1: He's going to be a massive cap hit. He misses

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Speaker 1: games regularly. He and Harbaugh apparently had a riff, And

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, Without big cap hit, Baltimore's roster is

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Speaker 1: going to be as thin as it can be. So

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Sam Darnold. If you tank Josh Allen

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Speaker 1: at well what about Mahomes?

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Speaker 3: What about him?

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Speaker 1: He's not in the playoffs? The old line and run

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Speaker 1: game weekend? Well what about Joe Burrow not in the playoffs?

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Speaker 1: War not in the playoffs? Justin Herbert performs badly in

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Speaker 1: the playoffs. I love Matt Stafford. So do you turns

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Speaker 1: thirty eight in a week not mobile zero playoff wins

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Speaker 1: in Detroit thirteen years. I think the truth about Sam

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Speaker 1: Darnold is the truth about this position is that we

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Speaker 1: look up, we worship, we make him into Superman. Outside

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Speaker 1: of Josh Allen, you're as good as your coach, your coordinator,

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Speaker 1: and your supporting cast.

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Speaker 3: I love Drake.

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Speaker 1: May you think he's in a super Bowl if he

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Speaker 1: goes to the Jets. I love Sam Darnold. You think

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Speaker 1: he's here if he goes to Cleveland. Now we've already

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Speaker 1: seen him with the Jets. Here's Jimmy Johnson on Donald

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Speaker 1: the ascension and what we know about him now.

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Speaker 5: He doesn't have to carry that team on his shoulders.

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Speaker 5: At Carolina, he had to carry that football team. He

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Speaker 5: couldn't do it because he turned it over. Now he

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Speaker 5: knows he's got a great defense. He knows that he

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Speaker 5: can be patient, take his time, take the checkdowns, you know,

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Speaker 5: throw it here every now and then take a shut

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Speaker 5: down the field. So I think the experience that he had,

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Speaker 5: and the team that he's with, and the coaching that

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Speaker 5: he's giving allowed him to be a great player.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think it's crazy to say that Sam

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Speaker 1: Darnold hoists a trophy. You gotta put him in the

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Speaker 1: top ten. If you think I'm wrong, consider this. The

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Speaker 1: Vikings were seven and ten before he arrived, fourteen and

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Speaker 1: three during and mediocre again this year at nine to eight.

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Speaker 1: The Seahawks had no playoff wins for eight years. Donald

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Speaker 1: arrives with the second youngest roster, They're in a super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: They had a middle of the pack offense. It's now

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Speaker 1: top three. I can give you his last two teams

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Speaker 1: kind of average or below average before he gets there,

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Speaker 1: not great offensively before he gets there, amazing when he's there.

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Speaker 3: Seems like to.

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Speaker 1: Me, hoisting a trophy in about ten twelve days. Have

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Speaker 1: to reconsider where we put him. J Mac jesse mentor

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Speaker 1: stopping by in Greg Cosel there, you talked about this yesterday.

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Speaker 1: You hinted on the Yawnics deal, which is becoming a

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Speaker 1: massive deal.

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Speaker 3: And you know in this coaching search there is.

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Speaker 1: One a crazy story going on in Philadelphia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, where they.

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Speaker 1: Can't find they cannot find the coordinator.

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Speaker 6: Well, you know, I think we talked about it.

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Speaker 7: Who wants to work for Sirianni when that guy's gonna

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Speaker 7: be on the hot seat all season? I know you

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Speaker 7: want to make it about Jalen Hurts. I'm very excited

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Speaker 7: to hear that, because you know Jalen Hurts. Last year

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Speaker 7: Colum won the Super Bowl, was a Super Bowl MVP.

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Speaker 7: I don't recall hearing any top ten chatter out of

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Speaker 7: you after Hurts last year.

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Speaker 3: Well, you can't see over the middle of the field.

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Speaker 3: There is an issue.

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Speaker 2: Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays

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Speaker 2: and Noone Easter not a em Pacific on Fox Sports

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Speaker 2: Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 8: Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben

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Speaker 8: Maller with me and a lot to have you joined

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Speaker 8: us on our weekly auditory journey.

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Speaker 3: You as God's Name is the Fifth Hour.

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Speaker 8: I'll tell you it's a spin off of that Ben

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Speaker 8: Mathershaw a cult hit overnights on FSR. Why should you

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Speaker 8: listen picture if you will a world will We chat

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Speaker 8: with captains of industry in media, sports and more every

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Speaker 8: week explore some amazing facts about human nature and more.

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Speaker 8: Listen to the Fifth Hour with Ben Mather on the

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Speaker 8: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

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Speaker 1: You're now entering the No Bull Zone sponsored by Credible

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Speaker 1: Great Rates None of the bull. There's a headline by

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Speaker 1: Adam Schefter today, Nick Serianum and the Eagles have a

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Speaker 1: backup planet. They can't find an offensive coordinator worthy of

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Speaker 1: the job. So this is the downside to having a

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Speaker 1: hyper aggressive general manager. Howie Roseman, why would you move

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Speaker 1: your family cross country? You could get whacked in a year.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you're an OC for the Eagles, you

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Speaker 1: either get a great head coaching opportunity or you get fired.

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Speaker 1: Most of these guys are married with kids. You want

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Speaker 1: to pull your kids out of school, you want to

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Speaker 1: move them cross country to Philadelphia market. You don't know,

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Speaker 1: get ripped. I mean, it's like being a political candidate

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Speaker 1: in a major city.

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Speaker 3: Get ripped.

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Speaker 1: Every day on radio, family goes through that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: So that's the downside. To Howie Roseman, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: could be a one year, nine month coordinator. The second

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Speaker 1: thing is, you know Nick Serianni is one of those

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Speaker 1: rare headed coaches with a winning record but not necessarily

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Speaker 1: a winning reputation. Is that when Jim Harbaugh opened up

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Speaker 1: his offensive coordinator job, everybody in the league calls, you

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Speaker 1: get big, strong, mobile, accurate justin Herbert, and you get

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Speaker 1: Jim Harbaugh Philadelphia, which makes a habit of winning Super

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Speaker 1: Bowls and winning playoff games, even if Nick Foles is

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Speaker 1: your quarterback. They can't find one. Well, Mike McDaniel was

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Speaker 1: the number one offensive coordinator candidate. Harbaugh took the job

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Speaker 1: because of Herbert. Mike McDaniel took the job because of

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Speaker 1: Herbert and Harbaugh, and the Eagles can't find a coordinator.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of it is people don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily trust Nick Sirianni to get out of this mess.

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Speaker 1: You have aj Brown drama. You know Herbert's issues last year,

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Speaker 1: he needs healthy offensive tackles. Jalen Hurts issues the last

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Speaker 1: couple of years. He can't see the middle of the field.

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Speaker 1: There is a sense that some of his issues are

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Speaker 1: not correctable. So offensive coordinator of the Philadelphia Eagles is

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Speaker 1: one of those sounds great jobs, but you know, do

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Speaker 1: you want to move your family cross country to a

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Speaker 1: market you don't know to Probably the hardest job in football.

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Speaker 1: I mean again, offensive coordinators the good one in this league.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're kind of thirty four, thirty five, thirty

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Speaker 1: six defensive guys, Vic Fangio, they are defensive coordinators that

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Speaker 1: are older guys. A lot of the top OC's you know,

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Speaker 1: you're Clint Kubiaks, Kyle Shanahan several years ago. They're the

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Speaker 1: young guys, right that Rams coach. It's interviewed in Cleveland

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Speaker 1: for a while. There are kids. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: a high intensity, high pressure, little payoff. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: if they do win, Sirianni gets the credit.

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Speaker 3: You don't get it.

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Speaker 1: Here is Nick Sirianni talking about them not landing in

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Speaker 1: OC still.

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Speaker 9: Yet as the head coach, you always have to be

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Speaker 9: oversight of everything.

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Speaker 6: And again this year, obviously I did.

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Speaker 9: I got involved more in the offense as the as

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Speaker 9: the end of the season came, because that's what I

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Speaker 9: needed to do as the head football coach there. And

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Speaker 9: so yeah, again, many different ways to do it, you know,

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Speaker 9: I know that I want to be the head football coach.

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Speaker 9: You know, I think it's best for the football team

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Speaker 9: when I'm the head football coach.

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Speaker 1: Well, Also, when you did call plays early on, it

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Speaker 1: didn't work. It worked when Shane Steiken arrived and Kellen

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Speaker 1: Moore arrived. So this is an organization that is very

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Speaker 1: coordinator dependent. The Rams aren't. The Niners aren't. Philadelphia is

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Speaker 1: highly coordinator dependent, at least on the offensive side of

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Speaker 1: the ball. Usually, when you have an offensive coach, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter if the coordinator leaves.

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Speaker 3: I mean mcveigh's run through them.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter Kevin O'Connell, Zach Taylor.

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Speaker 3: They leave, you're fine.

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Speaker 1: So Philadelphia is in a weird space where they have

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Speaker 1: an offensive coach who usually is dependent on the defensive

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Speaker 1: side to get the coordinator right. He's dependent on the

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Speaker 1: offensive side.

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Speaker 2: Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays

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Speaker 2: and noon Eastern not a em Pacific.

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Speaker 1: Well the author of six books, five or New York

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Speaker 1: Times best selling author, best selling books. He is now

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Speaker 1: at the Athletic He's been at the New York Post.

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Speaker 1: To me, is the most dependable columnist in America. A

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Speaker 1: great reporter and a great writer and her friend Ian

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Speaker 1: O'Connor joining us now live. The article in The Athletic

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Speaker 1: Today very comprehensive and it pointed to what I said

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Speaker 1: about Spygate. I would have voted Bill in, but I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to hammer the people sports writers, whoever it

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Speaker 1: is who said listen spygate. The NFL doesn't make Ian

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Speaker 1: a regular habit of taking away first round picks and

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Speaker 1: third round picks. There were two spy gates. They were

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Speaker 1: warned for seven years. So how do you answer to

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Speaker 1: the people that say, yes, he's the best coach of

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Speaker 1: all time, but there has to be attacks on Spygate.

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Speaker 10: I think it's a fair opinion, Colin. I would just

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Speaker 10: say this, Let's take early in the two thousand and

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Speaker 10: seven season, when it's uncovered and he is found to

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Speaker 10: have cheated and broken the rules and.

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Speaker 6: All that was spygate.

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Speaker 10: If you go forward from that point on, so I'm

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Speaker 10: going to hand you back his first three Super Bowl

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Speaker 10: championship trophies. Take them off the board. Okayre yours go

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Speaker 10: from that point forward. He went to six Super Bowls,

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Speaker 10: he won three of them. He went to nine AFC

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Speaker 10: Championship games, and won twelve of Visions Division titles. I mean,

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Speaker 10: so like, I think spygate should have been brought up

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Speaker 10: in the discussion.

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Speaker 6: With the voting committee, without question.

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Speaker 10: But I think it's a five minute discussion because if

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Speaker 10: you just go forward from two thousand and seven when

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Speaker 10: he was caught early in week one, so he goes

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Speaker 10: eighteen and zero, maybe the best team in the history

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Speaker 10: of American sports not to win a championship, and then

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Speaker 10: does what he does in big games going forward, He's

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Speaker 10: a slam dunk Hall of Famer, even if you hand

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Speaker 10: back the first three trophies. So that's how I would

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Speaker 10: handle it. I think it is worthy of being discussed,

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Speaker 10: but it should have been maybe a five minute part

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Speaker 10: of the conversation, and it was longer than that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, by the way, you have a Baseball

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame vote and there were PD situations, how

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Speaker 1: did you view the PD stuff in baseball as attacks?

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Speaker 10: So just like I felt that Belichick's career completely overwhelmed Spygate,

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Speaker 10: I feel like in the case of Roger Clemens and

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Speaker 10: Barry Bonds, same thing. Seven time MVP with Bonds, seven

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Speaker 10: time Cy Young winner in Clemens, the two most decorated

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Speaker 10: players in the history of the BBWAA, the organization I

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Speaker 10: represent when I cast the ballot, So I voted for

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Speaker 10: those two guys. There are two of the top eight

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Speaker 10: players in the history of baseball by the measurement of war,

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Speaker 10: and I didn't vote for the other ped guys because

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Speaker 10: I felt they fell below that standard and should be

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Speaker 10: penalized for their cheating. When you completely overwhelmed the transgression

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Speaker 10: the way Belichick did, then I think again, you are

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Speaker 10: a no brainer Hall of Famer, and that should have

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Speaker 10: been the case here instead of the biggest embarrassment in

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Speaker 10: the history of the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: All the this is good stuff, Okay, it is interesting,

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Speaker 1: is that? And I wouldn't hold this against him, But

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Johnson, without Troy Aikman in his prime, went to

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Speaker 1: Miami with an old Immobile Marino and actually had a

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Speaker 1: higher winning percentage in Miami than he did. Joe Gibbs

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Speaker 1: won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks, Parcels won

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Speaker 1: two with Hostetler and Simms. And by the way, Bill

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Speaker 1: Walsh and Bence Lombardi did not get in the first

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Speaker 1: year of eligibility. Could I argue this with Belichick. Okay, Bill, Listen,

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Speaker 1: they just changed the methodology. If Shula had to wait

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Speaker 1: five years and, by the way, got to the Super

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Speaker 1: Bowl with David Woodley, Earl Morile, and Marino, I'm not

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Speaker 1: putting you in first year when I the accumulation of Spygate,

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Speaker 1: your record without Brady everybody else waited.

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Speaker 3: Is that a reasonable argument?

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Speaker 6: I don't think so.

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Speaker 10: Again, I think the record is so staggering with or

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Speaker 10: without the cheating that he has to go in on

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Speaker 10: the first ballot. It's not his fault. They change the

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Speaker 10: rules and they no longer have to wait five years,

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Speaker 10: and it's a one year deal, and he's in front

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Speaker 10: of you. I just there's no good excuse for not

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Speaker 10: voting for the greatest NFL coach of all time, right

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Speaker 10: how you slice it?

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Speaker 6: Now, Listen, the Hall of Fame needs to fix some

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Speaker 6: things here.

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Speaker 10: You can't have senior players competing against coaches and contributors

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Speaker 10: in a category where you're only allowed to vote for

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Speaker 10: three of the five guys.

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Speaker 6: Why can't you vote for all five if you think

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Speaker 6: they're worthy.

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Speaker 10: If that were the case, Belichick would be in and

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Speaker 10: you wouldn't have this embarrassment.

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Speaker 6: And so the other thing.

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Speaker 10: And this is a minor tweak, but it would help

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Speaker 10: go from eighty percent down to seventy five percent, which

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Speaker 10: is the baseball standard. Yes, and I think if that

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Speaker 10: had been in play here already, if those rules, and listen,

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Speaker 10: Dion Sanders and other players complained in the past, that

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Speaker 10: was too easy to get into the Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 10: and that was the reason why they overcorrected. Now they

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Speaker 10: got to over correct going back the other way because

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Speaker 10: the backlog is such where guys like even Tom Coughlin

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Speaker 10: and other coaches now have to probably wait another year

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Speaker 10: because Belichick will go in next year. That backlog is

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Speaker 10: getting dangerous and it needs to be corrected.

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Speaker 1: Eli Manning second year didn't get in. I would put

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Speaker 1: him in probably second ballot. I wouldn't put him first ballot.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you can tell the story of the

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Speaker 1: league without Eli Manning. In fact, you can't. I do

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Speaker 1: think it's not that he won two Super Bowls. I

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Speaker 1: think it's so significant that he beat Belichick the best coach,

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Speaker 1: Brady the best player. And there's an argument outside of

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Speaker 1: the Bradshaw Lynn Swan catch, he had the two most

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Speaker 1: memorable catches in Super Bowl history. I wouldn't put him

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Speaker 1: in first ballot because he was kind of a middling

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Speaker 1: regular season quarterback. I would have put him in on

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Speaker 1: this ballot. Am I reaching there?

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Speaker 10: No, I think that's right. I'm not sure he's a

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Speaker 10: first ballot guy either.

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Speaker 6: And he was a.

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Speaker 10: Five hundred quarterback in the regular season. He only won

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Speaker 10: postseason games in the two years he won Super Bowls.

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Speaker 10: But those performances, those throws down the stretch to beat

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Speaker 10: the greatest coach quarterback partnership in the history of the league,

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Speaker 10: playing in New York with that last name following his,

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Speaker 10: I do think those are tie breakers that go in

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Speaker 10: his favor. And yeah, is he a first ballot guy?

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Speaker 10: Probably not, But I would have put him in this

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Speaker 10: year and I think he will. I think he will

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Speaker 10: eventually get in. But again, that backlog with modern era players,

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Speaker 10: it's going to get dicey, and the Hall of Fame

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Speaker 10: needs to ease the voting standards, the floor of the

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Speaker 10: induction standards have to be changed and to allow some

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Speaker 10: of these worthy players to get in.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so you wrote another book.

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Speaker 1: I read Out of the Darkness, The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers,

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Speaker 1: fantastic reed.

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Speaker 3: So, and I want to you.

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Speaker 1: You can take your time obviously on this is that

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Speaker 1: I said. I could see Mike McCarthy and Aaron saying,

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Speaker 1: let's just make it work. Let's sow this wound up,

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Speaker 1: Let's just do it. I can also see the Steelers saying,

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Speaker 1: we drafted Will Howard. It's a great draft next year

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Speaker 1: for quarterbacks. Aaron, we want to see if Will come play.

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Speaker 1: We got to figure this out. We're going to give

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Speaker 1: him seventeen start. We don't want him sitting it behind you.

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Speaker 1: Either way, I'd be comfortable with Aaron has said publicly,

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Speaker 1: Mike and I are good. Mike has said it publicly.

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Speaker 1: You know as well as anybody, what people say, you know,

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Speaker 1: in front of the camera is not what they're saying

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Speaker 1: behind it. Do you think McCarthy and Aaron could work

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Speaker 1: for at least one year in Pittsburgh together.

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 10: I do, and I did speak with both Aaron and

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Speaker 10: McCarthy for my book. I did ask them that question,

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Speaker 10: and their relationship is better now than it ever was

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Speaker 10: when they were together in Green Bay and Rogers said

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Speaker 10: to me, listen, we did butt heads from time to time,

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Speaker 10: even though I think it was more often than that.

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Speaker 6: But at the end of the day. We lit it

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Speaker 6: up for a lot of years.

436
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 10: And what people forget is Mike McCarthy changed Aaron Rodgers'

437
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 10: entire style of play when he got him out of

438
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 10: cal He was very robotic, he had the ball back

439
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 10: at his ear haul, and McCarthy loosened him up and

440
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 10: made him a more athletic player and really helped develop

441
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 10: him into an all time great and never gets any

442
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 10: credit for that. So listen, McCarthy's on record saying you

443
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 10: want them. Most of the Steelers players want them back,

444
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 10: if not all of them. And so I think that

445
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 10: Rogers will play one more year because it is McCarthy.

446
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 10: He might be the only coach that he would have

447
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 10: stayed in Pittsburgh to play for.

448
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 6: So what is the ceiling for this partnership.

449
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 10: Probably eleven and six at best, winning a playoff game.

450
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 10: So if you're a Steelers fan, you're saying, well, we

451
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 10: can't win the super Bowl with this partnership, but we

452
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 10: can have a productive season. I will say, if they're

453
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 10: three and six, I think there needs to be a

454
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 10: discussion about maybe even in advance though you don't want

455
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 10: to deal in negative hypotheticals. But then will Howard has

456
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 10: to be in play. If the season is getting away

457
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 10: from McCarthy and Rogers, then I think they have to

458
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 10: turn to the young quarterback.

459
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: You know, yesterday a lot of fans listen, people don't

460
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: trust the media.

461
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 3: They don't like us.

462
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: They trust you, but they don't like not being They

463
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: don't like me either. So I said this yesterday, I said,

464
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: the only baseball player to ever get in I believe

465
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: with one hundred percent of the votes is Mariano Rivera.

466
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 1: He's not doing it on innings pitched. He's doing it

467
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: on excellence. And he was maybe the most humble, graceful,

468
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: gracious athlete. You know, he's in that Cofax where you

469
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: can't find a bad word about him. And I mean Hank, Aaron, Ken, Griffy,

470
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just all these great players. You're like,

471
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: they can get one hundred percent of the vote. And

472
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: so my take is Mariano was such a pleasure to

473
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: deal with that it did matter to the voters is

474
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: that they liked him. And and people yesterday said, well,

475
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: you guys didn't like Belichick. And my take is, listen,

476
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: it's not that Bill didn't ignore the media. He was obnoxious. Again,

477
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: It shouldn't count. But I think Bill needed a tad

478
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,959
Speaker 1: bit of awareness for the last fifteen years in New England,

479
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: knowing those.

480
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 3: Are the guys voting for you.

481
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: What do you make of the assertion that people just

482
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: had it out for Bill because he wasn't he wasn't

483
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: you know? He was overly harsh, blunt and dismissive of

484
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: the media.

485
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 10: And by the way, Colin, did you know that eleven

486
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 10: voters did not vote for Babe Ruth on the first ballot?

487
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: I read that yesterday.

488
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 10: I read that, So you can't please everybody. I guess

489
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 10: I would say that had nothing to do with it

490
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 10: with Belichick. I talked to a number of voters and

491
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 10: just my own experience with the guy, and I understand

492
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 10: he was difficult to deal with at times from a

493
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 10: media perspective, But I really do not believe that was it.

494
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 6: It was part of it.

495
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 10: Was Hey, some people wanted to punish him for one

496
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 10: year because of Spygate and maybe a little bit of

497
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 10: the Flaygate. I think voting a lot of people wanted

498
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 10: to vote for the senior players instead of the coach

499
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 10: and the contributor and other people assume Belichick was getting

500
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 10: in well, he doesn't need my vote, so I'm going

501
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 10: to reserve my votes for other candidates.

502
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 6: There was a lot of that.

503
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 10: I think Spygate probably cost him three or four votes

504
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 10: out of the seven or twelve, but that cost them induction, right,

505
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 10: And that's where we go back to whether or not

506
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 10: you believe a one year penalty was warranted, and in

507
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 10: my opinion, it wasn't, simply because the winning was so

508
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 10: staggering that it just knocked spygate out of the park.

509
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: Well, one final question, Ian O'Connor at the Athletic for

510
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: our radio audience. It has been suggested, and you would

511
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: know this, that Robert Kraft didn't want to go in

512
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: the same year as Belichick. He didn't want to be

513
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: and they don't see eye to eye. There was a

514
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: documentary done that did feel like Belichick. It felt like

515
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: Kraft wanted to lean in a little bit on Belichick.

516
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: I think that's reasonable. What about that assertion. I don't

517
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: think it's a conspiracy theory. I don't think it rises

518
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: to that. I think it's a reasonable discussion that Craft

519
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: squeeze some people.

520
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess it's possible.

521
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 10: I do know that Belichick would walk by Craft in

522
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 10: the hallway sometimes and not even say hi to them.

523
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 10: And at the end of the day, a Craft deserves

524
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 10: a lot of credit for keeping that group together. For

525
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 10: Brady and Belichick, obviously at odds at times it was

526
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 10: really more like Brady and Craft versus Belichick than anything else,

527
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 10: but they made it work over time.

528
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 6: They deserve a lot of credit for that.

529
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 10: I think it's possible Craft might have whispered to a

530
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 10: couple of voters, and I do think that he would

531
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 10: love to get into the Hall of Fame ahead of

532
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 10: Bill Belichick. He's been waiting long enough. By the way,

533
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 10: Craft has gone to eleven Super Bowls since Terry Jones

534
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 10: has appeared in one and Jones is in the Hall

535
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 10: of Fame and Craft isn't.

536
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 6: So maybe that gets rectified now. We'll see, But yeah,

537
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 6: he would love to get in ahead of Bill without question. Ian.

538
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 3: It's great to see you.

539
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: Good luck to you and the fam and love your

540
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: work at the Athletic Congrats on all your success.

541
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:43,959
Speaker 6: You're the best. Colm.

542
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 3: Thanks