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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeart Radio Simon.

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Speaker 2: Yes, oh hey, I know you.

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Speaker 3: You know it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I do. Oh yeah, Okay. Do you ever watch the

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Speaker 2: Inside the Actors Studio? Yes, Like they had that guy

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Speaker 2: with the beard, you know, the kind of pompous guy,

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Speaker 2: James Lipston. He had asked people like, when you arrive

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Speaker 2: at Heaven, what do you want to hear? That's your

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Speaker 2: favorite customer? As like, I think it's what the Pross questionnaire?

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Speaker 2: Proust questionnaire. Yeah, right, So did you know that that

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Speaker 2: guy was a pimp. Yeah, he was a legit pimp.

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Speaker 3: He was a pimp.

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Speaker 2: I'm not being like, oh I think that guy's the pimp. No,

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Speaker 2: he was a pimp. Like before he was up on

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Speaker 2: that stage teaching actors how to fake it. He was

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Speaker 2: a pimp. He said this to Parade magazine. Parade Parade

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Speaker 2: like the Sunday Like it's sexually you know, you get

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Speaker 2: shows up in Sunday paper. Yeah, in that that little like, hey,

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Speaker 2: what's what's that for?

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Speaker 3: Guardfield?

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna read this.

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Speaker 3: The family Circus like entertainment.

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Speaker 2: The Journals of Entertainment journalis. Yeah. So back in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 2: They questioned him about it, and they said, and I quote,

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Speaker 2: is it true you are a pimp in Paris in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties.

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Speaker 3: A Parisian pimp.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Elizabeth, And he.

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Speaker 3: Said, and I.

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Speaker 2: Quote, I was. It was only a few years after

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Speaker 2: the war. Paris was different than still poor men couldn't

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Speaker 2: get jobs, and in the male chauvinus Paris of that time,

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Speaker 2: the woman couldn't get work at all. It was perfectly

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Speaker 2: respectable for them to go into le milieu. Now, so

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Speaker 2: the person's like prostitution, He's like, young women desperately needed

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Speaker 2: money for various reasons. They were beautiful and young and extraordinary.

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Speaker 2: There was no oprobrium because it was completely regulated. Every

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Speaker 2: week they had to be inspected medically. The great bordellos

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Speaker 2: were still flourishing in those days before the Sheriff of Paris,

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Speaker 2: a woman, closed them down. It was a different time.

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Speaker 2: And the person's like, how did your involvement come about?

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Speaker 2: You became friends with one of the prostitutes, Like what

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Speaker 2: went down with He's like, oh, we became great friends.

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Speaker 2: When I ran out of money, I said I have

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Speaker 2: to go home, and she said, no, you don't, I'll

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Speaker 2: arrange it. For you, So she arranged for me to

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Speaker 2: do it. I had to be okayed by the underworld,

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Speaker 2: otherwise they would have found me floating in the sand.

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Speaker 2: So he's apparently pimp ocade and pimp approved by the

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Speaker 2: French underworld own. So he's like the persons like did

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Speaker 2: you have like a fleet of girls, or you got

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Speaker 2: like a stable? Or like how many thoroughbreds were talking here?

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Speaker 2: He's like, did you represent more than one girl? That

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Speaker 2: was actual? Quote, yes, a whole bordello. I represented them

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Speaker 2: all but her especially. Anyway, I did a roaring business

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Speaker 2: and I was able to live for a year. The

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Speaker 2: French mechs didn't exploit women the ch you know right,

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Speaker 2: They represented them like agents and they took a cut.

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Speaker 2: That's how I lived. I was going through my rights

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Speaker 2: of passage, no question about it. It was a great

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Speaker 2: year of my life.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Interestingly, this man has been canceled. Surprising, right, Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: apparently sometimes the targets hit the right time. Anyway, he's

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Speaker 2: so proud in twenty thirteen to go off as an

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Speaker 2: old man. Let me tell you about me being a

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Speaker 2: pimp in Paris. You know I'm recording this, sir, This

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Speaker 2: is going to be and people's paper he thought.

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Speaker 3: He was delighted. Yes, of course that is ridiculous. Do

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Speaker 3: you want to know what else is ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: I am so here for.

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Speaker 3: You kids stealing guns?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and

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Speaker 3: cons It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: No, you done heard that?

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Speaker 3: Oh you know that. One of my favorite topics is

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Speaker 3: Old San Francisco. Yes, it is a barbary coasting.

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Speaker 2: You're like, what's Elizabeth like? I'm like, what do you

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Speaker 2: know about Old San Francisco.

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Speaker 3: Basically, it's like from the start of the gold rush,

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Speaker 3: of the Great Quake of six somewhere, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, they got fifty years.

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Speaker 3: Around there, and it goes beyond my family connection to

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Speaker 3: that time. I'm fascinated by the boomtown mentality because it

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Speaker 3: draws people from all over the world looking to get rich.

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Speaker 3: It's like kind of what we have now, people coming

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Speaker 3: here to seek their fortunes and technology. And when you

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Speaker 3: have a frontier town and one that's on the very

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Speaker 3: edge of the continent that issues conventions and rules of

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Speaker 3: the ruling classes on the other side of the country.

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Speaker 3: It makes for interesting times.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I got a nice contrast.

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Speaker 3: So I mentioned the Barbary Coast. Yes, it was the

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Speaker 3: like red light district in old San Francisco, dance halls,

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Speaker 3: gambling duns, san Francisco's first jazz clubs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like basically North Beach a part of

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Speaker 2: the financial district.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. In Brothels it was a wild place full

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Speaker 3: of wild folks. When I say folks, I mean folks

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Speaker 3: of all ages. Yes, adults, seniors and of course children.

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Speaker 2: Sar kids in there.

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Speaker 3: Have I got some kids for you today? I would

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Speaker 3: imagine that you were a pretty rascally kid. I was

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Speaker 3: a I was not. No, are you surprised, But let's

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Speaker 3: let's start. Let's start with a little girl who was

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Speaker 3: more than a rascal. She was a criminal. She was

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Speaker 3: ahead of a criminal gang, and she was twelve years old.

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Speaker 3: Her name Mary Avery. So Mary was a member of

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Speaker 3: a gang that included John O'Keeffe age twelve, James McDonald

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Speaker 3: aged twelve, James Hopkins, age fifteen, Mary Sullivan aged fourteen,

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Speaker 3: and then holding up the caboose on this one, Mary Bowen,

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Speaker 3: aged ten so.

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Speaker 2: These are all these are like some hardened criminals of

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Speaker 2: five six years longman under world.

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Speaker 3: We got a John, two James's, and three Marys. They

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Speaker 3: didn't seem to have like a gang name. But Mary

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Speaker 3: Mary Avery gang leader.

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Speaker 2: She Mary Avery Gang.

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Speaker 3: She had a street name. She was known as Little Dick.

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Speaker 3: What Yeah, Little named after the old highwayman Dick Turpins Britain.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Can you hear about this cat?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so Little She's a little gang leader, a little

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Speaker 3: highway woman. So at the end of March of eighteen

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Speaker 3: seventy seven, the gang was dragged before a judge after

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Speaker 3: getting busted.

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Speaker 2: Whole group.

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Speaker 3: So the judge had to figure out, am I going

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Speaker 3: to send them off to the Industrial So I'm going to.

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Speaker 2: Send the Avery Gang off to the Who's Camp.

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Speaker 3: And you're like, Elizabeth, what the heck is the industrial What.

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Speaker 2: Is the Industrial School?

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Speaker 3: Lilizabeth, thank you for asking. Here's the side quest. So

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Speaker 3: the San Francisco Industrial School was this huge, huge facility

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Speaker 3: one hundred acres kind of near where City College of

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Speaker 3: San Francisco is to really hundred acres and there was

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Speaker 3: a huge building and then the rest was just land

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Speaker 3: for crops and they were grown tended, harvested, sent to

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Speaker 3: market by the kids that were sent.

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Speaker 2: That's the good side of the city too, okay.

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Speaker 3: Right, And so it was basically this is work camp.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't like they're in the sand dunes out by

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Speaker 2: the water.

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Speaker 3: And they had they had the farming aspect of it,

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Speaker 3: but then they also had like a cobbler and a tailor,

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Speaker 3: so they would make the shoes for themselves to wear. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but they would produce so much that then they'd sell

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Speaker 3: it off to like other facilities, like I'm.

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Speaker 2: Sure other schools, like yeah, Catholic schools or whatever exactly.

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Speaker 3: So it's but it's run by a private organization.

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Speaker 2: Oh, this is not it, Okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. They took kids up to the age of eighteen,

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Speaker 3: and at one point they had two kids under the

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Speaker 3: age of five. We like four year olds in the

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Speaker 3: in the work camp. So it seems like so this

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Speaker 3: is like a juvenile hall for bad kids basically. But

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Speaker 3: I always what.

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Speaker 2: We're getting back to this is our future five industrial

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Speaker 2: schools exactly.

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Speaker 3: I kind of get the idea that, like in all

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Speaker 3: the contemporary articles that I read, that maybe this is

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Speaker 3: also a place to send a kid in order to

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Speaker 3: punish a deadbeat parent. Wait what so that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, how is punishing the kid punishing the parent?

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Speaker 2: If they're a dead beet, they don't care.

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Speaker 3: How is it helpful to work these kids.

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Speaker 2: To the like not the poor house? This is not

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Speaker 2: an orphanage. This is just basically, we're going to make

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Speaker 2: some use of you. Yeah, and as a child and

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Speaker 2: your parents. Hope this'll piss them off too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to get you on the straight and narrow.

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Speaker 3: So Gary Kamaiya he's a great San Francisco writer and artist.

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Speaker 3: In twenty eighteen, he did a piece for the San

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Speaker 3: Francisco Chronicle about the Industrial School. Here's how he describes

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Speaker 3: the place. Quote the Industrial School was designed like a prison.

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Speaker 3: It was a three story, single wing building, with every

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Speaker 3: floor holding sixteen cells that were five and a half

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Speaker 3: feet by seven and a half feet. Each cell had

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Speaker 3: an iron bed that folded against the wall. Toilets at

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Speaker 3: the end of the hall. Spread quote an absolutely intolerable

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Speaker 3: stench through the building. Early visitors to the Industrial School

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Speaker 3: commented on the almost complete absence of educational facilities or

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Speaker 3: vocational training. The sole teacher sat behind a desk made

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Speaker 3: of a piece of plywood, resting on a barrel. The

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Speaker 3: children had to carry their benches and tables from the

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Speaker 3: dining room at the start of the school day. The

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Speaker 3: children's day began at five thirty am. After breakfast, they

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Speaker 3: were handed picks and shovels and march off to work

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Speaker 3: at the rear of the building, moving earth. They worked

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Speaker 3: until a food break at noon, then they were marched

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Speaker 3: back to dig some more until two thirty. From three

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Speaker 3: to five thirty they attended school. Supper was at six,

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Speaker 3: then more school from seven to eight thirty, bedtime at nine.

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Speaker 2: Wow, tons of schooling. You said, there's three floors, sixteen

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Speaker 2: cells each floor. Yeah, it's like what forty eight, So

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Speaker 2: that's enough for like multiple classrooms, multiple moments, and they're

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Speaker 2: of different ages, and they have like an hour and

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Speaker 2: a half here, an hour and a half there schooling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so like the conditions are terrible. The kids were.

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Speaker 2: Basically sixteen boys on a sixteen young boys on a toilet.

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Speaker 3: At the time, it was co edh was co ed

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Speaker 3: right for a while there, and it was just assuming

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Speaker 3: so much violent punishment. So there was this huge investigation.

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Speaker 3: The public is disgusted by what they learned. As am

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Speaker 3: I and one of the articles quote it was reported

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Speaker 3: that one hundred men from Sacramento were ready to come

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Speaker 3: down to San Francisco, tear down the building and hang

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Speaker 3: the superintendent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're like back in the day.

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Speaker 3: Eighteen seventy two, the city of San Francisco took over.

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Speaker 3: This is what Gary, Where is that energy now, Elizabeth?

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Speaker 3: I know? Quote. Sixty three girls were transferred to the

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Speaker 3: Magdalen Asylum at twenty first in Potrero, which a Catholic

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Speaker 3: group had originally opened as a shelter for former prostitutes,

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Speaker 3: but the new arrivals were so rebellious that the sisters

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Speaker 3: had to house them in separate quarters, fearing they would

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Speaker 3: corrupt the Magdalens.

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Speaker 2: Wait, they were worried the young girls are going to

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Speaker 2: corrupt the former prostitutes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, So this is what we're talking about, bad

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Speaker 3: kids in old San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, we got to get these girls

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Speaker 2: away from these four sex workers.

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Speaker 3: Let's go back to little Dick in her gang in

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Speaker 3: front of the judge. So only Hopkins and Bowen hadn't

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Speaker 3: been busted before Little Dick frequent flyer in the justice.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm talking about she's up there they got a

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Speaker 2: picture of her beyond the judge.

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Speaker 3: Ray Alexander wrote for KQD quote after one arrest, police

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Speaker 3: discovered that Avery was so dedicated stealing she wore customized

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Speaker 3: dresses specifically designed for the purpose. Avery cut holes in

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Speaker 3: her pockets and doubled up the petticoats underneath in order

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Speaker 3: to take and conceal objects without detection. Very forty elephants.

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Speaker 2: Totally, So she basically cut holes in her pockets, had

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Speaker 2: to drop into like a sealed up Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so would they be sent to this industrial school? Well,

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Speaker 3: first of all, what did they do? Officers testified that

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Speaker 3: at one o'clock in the morning, the kids were found

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Speaker 3: sleeping together in a loft over a blacksmith shop, and

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Speaker 3: it was a shop that they'd broken into and stolen things.

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Speaker 2: From previously or that night at night.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and what things? One hundred guns?

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Speaker 2: What they stole?

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Speaker 3: On undred?

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Speaker 2: Wait, they broke and stole a hundred guns and took asleep.

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Speaker 2: Then you're gonna need a wagon. Who's got a red wagon?

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Speaker 2: We had all these guns, one hundred guns.

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Speaker 3: So all the parents showed up to court.

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Speaker 2: They have parents that are actually the judge.

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Speaker 3: The judge didn't think there was enough evidence against James Hopkins,

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Speaker 3: so he let him go into the custody of his parents.

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Speaker 3: Same with Mary Bowen, James McDonald's. So we're left with

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Speaker 3: John O'Keefe, Mary Sullivan, and Mary Avery. Yeah, little dick,

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Speaker 3: she was wild. So while the other kids are like

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Speaker 3: cowed by their experience in court, she thought the whole

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Speaker 3: thing was hilarious, laughing. Oh yeah, she's cutting up, giggling

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Speaker 3: through the whole thing. Where did she get this attitude?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Well, the San Francisco Examiner came through with some gross

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Speaker 3: journalism as was there. Oh yes, her mother, a corpulent

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Speaker 3: and careless looking woman, stood behind her and shook her

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Speaker 3: sides with laughter at her daughter's cuteness. The girl had

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Speaker 3: been a frequent visitor and was promptly committed, evidently to

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Speaker 3: her entire satisfaction. Yeah, so Mary, little dick Avery gets

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Speaker 3: sent off to the industrial school, and her mom's totally

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Speaker 3: cool with you.

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Speaker 2: She's got three squares.

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Speaker 3: More from the exam quote. The Sullivan girl was concerned

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Speaker 3: sometime since in the larceny of rings from a jewelry

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Speaker 3: store on Fourth Street. Missus Sullivan pleaded for her daughter,

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Speaker 3: but in vain. Her daughter had been in a similar

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Speaker 3: predicament once before and had promised to be good. She

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Speaker 3: was committed, and the vicious Little Mary Avery clapped her

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Speaker 3: hands and crowed with glee. When they were about to

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Speaker 3: be marched downstairs, she manifested some tenderness by bidding a

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Speaker 3: dude to her not deeply affected mother in a touching manner.

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Speaker 2: This feels like the end of a law in order

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Speaker 2: to spu episode like crazy teen girls like waving goodbye

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Speaker 2: to her friends leaving her like bye.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so these are bad kids, right, yeah, And

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Speaker 3: that's March of eighteen seventy seven. Six months later, reference TV.

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Speaker 2: Now that you've come clean, it's liberating.

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Speaker 3: You have no idea instead of that what I don't know?

285
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Speaker 3: I don't anyway. Six months after this, Little Dick's back. Yeah,

286
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Speaker 3: I was hoping from the examiner.

287
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Speaker 2: Down your hair gone.

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Speaker 3: Here's their little blurb, Little Dick again is the headline. Yes,

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Speaker 3: Mary Avery, a juvenile thief only thirteen years of age

290
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Speaker 3: and known to the police as Little Dick, was yesterday

291
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Speaker 3: convicted in the police court a vagrancy. Some time ago,

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00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,559
Speaker 3: she was arrested for having stolen one hundred revolvers from

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Speaker 3: a store on Market Street and was committed to the

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Speaker 3: Industrial School. She had been in the school but three

295
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Speaker 3: months when she was released by order of the school

296
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Speaker 3: committee of the board of supervisors. Okay, three months, three months,

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Speaker 3: and then she gets out.

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Speaker 2: So it's basically juvie but with a job.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So then she's just a vagrant, right, So that

300
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Speaker 3: means that like she's not going home.

301
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Speaker 2: She drunk in public, That's what I'm guessing. She's on

302
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 2: some Spanish wine in the afternoon.

303
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Speaker 3: Probably two months after this. After that bust, she and

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00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,040
Speaker 3: the gang are back in business, at least for a

305
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,440
Speaker 3: little while. So there was this nice store called Feigenbaum

306
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 3: and Company on the corner of Sansomon Pine in San Francisco.

307
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Speaker 3: It's pretty much a department store.

308
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Speaker 5: The name.

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Speaker 3: November eighteenth, eighteen seventy seven, they're burgled. The crooks entered

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Speaker 3: the place around nine o'clock at night by the climbed

311
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Speaker 3: onto the roof of the bootblacks shop next door. They

312
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,080
Speaker 3: entered the store through the second story window, and there's

313
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 3: like this elevator that goes up and down either way.

314
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Speaker 3: They get in there. They made off with fancy toys

315
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Speaker 3: and valuable music boxes.

316
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Speaker 2: We're talking like a like a dumb waiter, like the

317
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Speaker 2: like for the restaurants and.

318
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Speaker 3: South for the hotel, the goods from Florida. Yeah.

319
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Speaker 2: So the kids are sitting in there at the square

320
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Speaker 2: boxes with kids. Kids are toys perfect.

321
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Speaker 3: It's like Annie's orphanage.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine if you could like run a crew

323
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Speaker 2: of kids back then and like you were actually like

324
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Speaker 2: the Fagan character.

325
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Speaker 3: But in San Francisco, this pops up, you'll see, Oh whoa.

326
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Speaker 3: So two days later, Allen and Company's gun store at

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Speaker 3: fifteen fifteen Market gets broken into.

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Speaker 2: The gun store.

329
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Speaker 3: Yeah, second gun store. Someone pride open the cellar door.

330
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Speaker 3: They took one hundred and twelve guns like gunpowder and ammo.

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Speaker 2: How many kids they are? They army?

332
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Speaker 3: No, no, so the cops. They went through the pawn shops,

333
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,840
Speaker 3: the secondhand stores for days, came up empty. One day

334
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Speaker 3: they're walking through and the known as Tar Flat, and

335
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 3: it was an Irish neighborhood down by the water, but

336
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,560
Speaker 3: like away from the Barbary Coast to South Market. It

337
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 3: was called Tar Flat because that's where the gas company

338
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,480
Speaker 3: was distilling coal and they dumped the sledge by product

339
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,440
Speaker 3: into the Bay. Yeah, and so the whole place stank.

340
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 3: It was terrible, and it was a super poor neighborhood.

341
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 3: And like the higher ups in San Francisco, they like

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00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,080
Speaker 3: to blame a good portion of the problems in the

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00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 3: city on those who lived in top neighborhood and who

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00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 3: lives in that neighborhood little Dick and her minions. So

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00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,400
Speaker 3: the cops they're walking through the neighborhood and they see

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00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 3: this kid just like bragging to some other kids about

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00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 3: a mounted pistol that he had with them pistol, and

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00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,200
Speaker 3: so he's showing it off. The police swoop in. They

349
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 3: questioned him. I'm going to guess that it was not

350
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,280
Speaker 3: a gentle chat and they didn't buy the story that

351
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 3: he gave about how he got it. So they take

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00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 3: him down to the jail and when he gets there,

353
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,520
Speaker 3: he rats on his pals. So the cops they go

354
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Speaker 3: back to the neighborhood, round up the rest of the kids.

355
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Speaker 3: One of them, James Walsh, remember him. He had a

356
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 3: bunch of miniature toys and six pistols hidden in a

357
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 3: bag in his basement. So this is like, this is

358
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 3: the beginning of the montage in a movie where they

359
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 3: go from like criminal's house to criminal's house findings. So

360
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 3: then they go to James O'Keefe's house, which is right

361
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,600
Speaker 3: next door. They go up to the roof they find

362
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 3: twenty five of the pistols. Next they go to Charles

363
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 3: Day's house in the attic. At his place, they find

364
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,240
Speaker 3: a bag that has sixteen pistols in it, a music

365
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 3: box valued it two hundred dollars, which is like six

366
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 3: thousand dollars to Day.

367
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Speaker 2: It's ridiculous.

368
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,440
Speaker 3: And then like miniature fire engines and toys.

369
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 2: The mixture of the guns and toys is blowing my mind.

370
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,479
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, they got a bag of Jack's and

371
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 2: then like, you know, a rifle exactly.

372
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Speaker 3: So after that they go to James Lahy's house. That

373
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 3: kid like really saying right at this James's house they

374
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,439
Speaker 3: recover a bunch of guns and even more toys. Then

375
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,840
Speaker 3: they go to George Gasper's house. In this they go

376
00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 3: down into the cellar and they see that the earth

377
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:01,120
Speaker 3: is recently disturbed.

378
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:02,400
Speaker 2: He's got a collection of landlines.

379
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,920
Speaker 3: They start digging. They go down three feet and they

380
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 3: find eighteen pistols three feet, this big bunch of toys,

381
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,919
Speaker 3: and then another two hundred dollars music box.

382
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 2: What wow, Benjamin, I like, and he tried to hide them.

383
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 2: I got you did the best.

384
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,480
Speaker 3: Job trying to hide him. Benjamin Schmidt. He conveniently lived

385
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 3: right across the street from the jail. In his house

386
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 3: they found one of the stolen music boxes. More guns

387
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,560
Speaker 3: then they then they go to Mary Avery's house.

388
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:28,880
Speaker 2: Oh lord, she's.

389
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,159
Speaker 3: Got ten pistols, toys, a lamp, and then ammunition. So

390
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,240
Speaker 3: she's strapped up. All the kids are arrested. The police

391
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,720
Speaker 3: they were able to recover like most of the stolen merchandise.

392
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 2: I want to know if the kids were using guns

393
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 2: like people use loose diamonds. Now, it's just like something

394
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:44,120
Speaker 2: is you.

395
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,200
Speaker 3: Can just or selling adults.

396
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I figure that's exactly. Adults would buy it from

397
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,119
Speaker 2: kids and no one expected, and they're gonna hold value.

398
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,239
Speaker 3: Well, and the thing of the u the kid down right.

399
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 3: Well yeah, the value of the property altogether was estimated

400
00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,879
Speaker 3: to be about thousand dollars. That's like almost thirty harand

401
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 3: today it's a good kids stole. Yeah. So December third,

402
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 3: eighteen seventy seven, the whole group is convicted sent off

403
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,480
Speaker 3: to the industrial school. Mary Avery did some time there actually,

404
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 3: this time at the Magdalene assigned Yeah, and then she

405
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 3: got out the next year. She was exactly she was.

406
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 2: Stop sitting next to.

407
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 3: Her, She's like, hey, you want to go in on

408
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 3: a score. She was out for a month and then

409
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 3: gets arrested again, this time according to the La Evening

410
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 3: Express for quote leading an idle and dissolute life.

411
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 2: I've done that. That's not so bad.

412
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 3: I lost track of all of them after that, at

413
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 3: least in the paper, because you know, they got common

414
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 3: names and like the girls may marry, moved, and the

415
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 3: likelihoods they spent their lives in and out of jail,

416
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,439
Speaker 3: and their names make it into the paper because the

417
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,639
Speaker 3: novelty of them being young, it's not surprising. But whatever,

418
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 3: hundreds of guns and passed through their hands. Let's take

419
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 3: a break. When we come back. I got more bad kids.

420
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 5: For you, Zaren Elizabeth, welcome back to my gold Rush

421
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 5: after school special.

422
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: I want to buy a gun, yes, and this kid

423
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 2: gave it to me.

424
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 3: How old was the kid?

425
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 2: Six seven?

426
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 3: I don't know, perfect that's what I want. So we

427
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 3: had little Dick and her crew running guns in eighteen

428
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 3: seventy seven, and I guess you know, like I said,

429
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 3: I think they're trying to sell them to my guests,

430
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, And the toys were just for them

431
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 3: to play with because the kid, kid.

432
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 2: Children, how did they come And that's what they want.

433
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: If they had money, that's what they would buy. Yeah.

434
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, And this time pre nineteen oh six quake in

435
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 3: San Francisco is just so wild. Oh yes, Like it

436
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 3: wasn't just San Francisco though, Things were crazy across the

437
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 3: Bay too. Here's a quick piece from the San Francisco

438
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 3: Chronicle July sixteenth, nineteen oh five, headline made drunk by

439
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 3: their booty.

440
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 6: I've been July fifteenth, Yes, you've been drunk on booty,

441
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,360
Speaker 6: drinking freely of the whiskey which they had taken from

442
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 6: a home of Fred Wagner at Dwight Way and Spaulding Street.

443
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 3: Was the undoing of a gang of small boys who

444
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 3: have been operating as burglars in the neighborhood and have

445
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: twice looted Wagner's place. Because the boys were so drunk

446
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 3: that they could not walk nor talk straight, it was

447
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 3: an easy matter for the local police to lay their

448
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 3: hands on the offenders, and they were captured and forced

449
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,679
Speaker 3: to disclose the names of the rest of the members

450
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 3: of the juvenile gang. Those who were thus caught were

451
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 3: Willie Small, aged eight, w James Small, aged nine, Fred

452
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 3: McNamara aged ten, John McNamara aged eighteen, and Gustaf Palash

453
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 3: aged thirteen.

454
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 2: Wow, so they got like brothers and one big brother

455
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: bro and they're passing around a flask and everyone's getting drunk.

456
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 3: It's an eight year old, does you know? It's like

457
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 3: Drew Down would wrap about almost a century later. They

458
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 3: grew up hell early they did. It was always right.

459
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 3: So back to San Francisco. Any headline like this deserves attention. Sure,

460
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 3: tiny prisoners confess to police.

461
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: These are all awesome headlines.

462
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 3: Here's here's what happened in nineteen oh nine. A little

463
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 3: gang of boys broke into stores up and down Fillmore

464
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 3: Street over the course of a week or so. Okay,

465
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 3: all to drug store, Brownlee's hardware, l Harris Men's furnishings.

466
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 2: Are these open? Are they coming in like masks on

467
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 2: or their cloth?

468
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 3: Sneaky? Sneaky. So they stole all sorts of stuff, But

469
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 3: the big ticket items were a bunch of cameras. So

470
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 3: these are like early cats.

471
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: Totally brownings and stuff like, yeah, brown leather type and.

472
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 3: It's not like Da garrettype mathews.

473
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 2: And they're not on the sticks the tritt.

474
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 3: So yeah, we're getting into like the earlier.

475
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: You actually like in a box in your hand.

476
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. So here's the gang. William Havely twelve years old,

477
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 3: his alias Red hen't He's got with him Willie Hall,

478
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: who's ten, and then Leo Lyons who's tent.

479
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: His name is Lyon Lions, Leo Lions Spanish is Leo.

480
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 3: All over the place, and this is my pal Red.

481
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 3: Red confessed, he tells everything, but he didn't confess to

482
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 3: the cops. He told his mom in this totally nonchalant

483
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 3: and like unbothered manner, that he'd rob some stores. His mother,

484
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 3: would you do in school today? I didn't go to school,

485
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 3: but I want to buy a camera. So the cops,

486
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 3: they hadn't really figured it all out yet, but they

487
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 3: picked up Leo and Willie Hull because it's like, you

488
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 3: guys are ten year olds who were very suspicious and

489
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 3: Red he doesn't think anything of his escapades, as the

490
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 3: San Francisco Examiner puts it at the time, So his

491
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 3: mom drags him down to the police station hands him over.

492
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 3: Oh like, and surely he'll clam up when the cops

493
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 3: are all right there, Like he's just speaking freely at

494
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 3: the breakfast table. No. No, he repeated his confession just

495
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 3: as breezy as before. He admits to the burglaries. He

496
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 3: admits to being the ringleader of the gang. There was

497
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 3: one burglary that hadn't been solved or connected to the crew.

498
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: Someone stole five thousand dollars worth of furs from ee

499
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 3: Wally store on Fillmore. That's one hundred and seventy two

500
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: thousand dollars today. Read Red Wooden cop to that one.

501
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 3: I think that's the only one where the goods hadn't

502
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 3: been recovered. And so Lions and Hall they get arrested.

503
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 3: They insist that they're not guilty for any of the burglaries.

504
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 3: They just happened to be where the stolen goods were kidden.

505
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 3: That's weird. Pure happens to I take walks. Yeah, So

506
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 3: Hall gets shipped off to Juvie. Lion Lion he gets

507
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: released on bail. Before they went though, they both said

508
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 3: that the actual burglaries were committed by a boy called

509
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 3: Red and so at this point, this is pre confession.

510
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: They're at a loss and they're like, who's Red. He hadn't

511
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 3: made a name for himself yet. But then all of

512
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: a sudden, this lady, his mom like, my kid himself, Red,

513
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 3: he's terrible, do something about it. So Red. They let

514
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 3: Red go back home with his mom, and I'm guessing,

515
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: like you know, she promised, I'm going to bring him

516
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 3: back to court when it goes on the docket, and

517
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 3: like you know, they're thinking she did her she's trying

518
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 3: her best, and she's not from tar Flats. We'll cut

519
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 3: her some slack, Yeah, exactly. So Red he didn't show

520
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 3: up in the papers after that, So I'm going to

521
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,479
Speaker 3: hope that his mom got some sense into him one

522
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 3: way or another, hopefully. Leo Lyon, on the other hand,

523
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: he made one more newspaper appearance. Please be good date Lion,

524
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 3: September sixth, nineteen seventeen. San Francisco Examiner, headline, beer bottle

525
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 3: halts brother's menaces No. Leo Lyon's a clerk seventeen years

526
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 3: of age, living at fifteen fifty three Fulton Street, had

527
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 3: a fight with his brother in law, Charles Cleaver of

528
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 3: the same address at three o'clock this morning, Charlie Cleaver

529
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 3: Charlie Cleaver over two rings that both claimed Lions claimed

530
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: that Cleaver started towards him threateningly and he struck him

531
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 3: over the head with a beer bottle. Cleaver was taken

532
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 3: to the Park Hospital, where he was treated for a

533
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 3: severe laceration of the scalp. Lyons was arrested by Policeman H. H.

534
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 3: Lindoff and turned over to the juvenile authorities. WHOA, that's

535
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: messy and I love it. Three am brawl. Let me

536
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: give you another boy gang and I don't want to

537
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: tell you about this though. I want to show you.

538
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 3: I want you to use the power of imagination to

539
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 3: picture it. Oh Zarah closure as I'm right there with you,

540
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: I want you to picture it. It's Sinco de Mayo

541
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 3: nineteen oh four. People don't celebrate the Mexican victory over

542
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 3: the French at the Bottle of Puebla forty two years earlier, then,

543
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: at least I don't think so. Whatever you are, Special

544
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 3: Policeman Richard Harvey, SFPD, you're walking your beat in the

545
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 3: city's Fillmore district, right by Jefferson Square Park. It's eleven

546
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: o'clock at night and all is quiet. A dog barks

547
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: in the distance. A horse and buggy pass driver tip

548
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 3: in his cap to you as he slowly makes his

549
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 3: way up Buchanan Street. You reach thirteen oh three Buchanan

550
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: Jefferson Square Market, a butcher shop owned by Frederick Held.

551
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 3: Nice guy. Everyone in the neighborhood loves him. As you

552
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 3: pass the front door of the shop, you stop in

553
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 3: your tracks. The front door is ajar. No, it's a door. No,

554
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: it's a jar. This is highly unusual. You put your

555
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 3: shoulder against it and it yields. It swings back on

556
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 3: its hinges with a mighty creak, and you step just

557
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 3: inside the store, stopping at the threshold. A gas jet

558
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: is lit. Mister Held leaves this on every night. You

559
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 3: can see the faint flicker through the glass each night.

560
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: As you walk by in this dim light, you see

561
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: that the drawer of the cash register is open. You

562
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 3: step into the dark shop. As you pass the register,

563
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 3: you see the drawers empty. But you can't imagine mister

564
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 3: Held left anything in it when he closed up the

565
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: shop that evening. A safe. He probably has a safe.

566
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 3: You peer over and notice a small recess at the

567
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 3: rear of the store. In it. You can just take

568
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 3: out the shape of a safe in the inky darkness.

569
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 3: You rub your eyes, willing them to adjust to the

570
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: lack of light. You pull your revolver from the whole

571
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 3: stra at your hip and use your other hand to

572
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 3: grope your way along the counter toward the safe. You

573
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 3: call out, hello, mister held, are you here? No response.

574
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 3: You get to the safe and run your hand down

575
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 3: the scene where the door sets into the body of

576
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 3: the safe. You feel deep gouge marks near the dial,

577
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 3: but the safe remains sealed. You stand still and you

578
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 3: can only hear the tick of the clock on the wall.

579
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: Then you hear the gentle creak of a small hinge.

580
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 3: Your heart is beating fast, but you keep calm. In

581
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: the shadows, you see movement from next to the safe.

582
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 3: It's the ice box. The cover is lifting. You gulp

583
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: and tighten your grip on the handle of your revolver.

584
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 3: A small shaft of light from the gas flame shines

585
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 3: on the lid, flickering some manner of clarity. From the icebox,

586
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: something takes shape. You see it is the face of

587
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 3: a very scared little boy. You startle ah and you

588
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 3: tell the boy come out of there. You lift him

589
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: by the collar and march him out onto the sidewalk,

590
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: wedging the front door of the shop closed behind you.

591
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: What's your name, you asked the boy, Paul Dorney, He

592
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 3: tells you. How old are you? You ask eleven? You

593
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: take a deep breath and stare up at the foggy

594
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 3: blanket above you. What is happening with this world? You

595
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 3: wonder to yourself. Kids, these days are out of control.

596
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 3: I'm telling you so, Special Detective Harvey, this is.

597
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: The TikTok, Elizabeth, totally.

598
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: The TikTok that does these things to the ki.

599
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: The used to say, you'd see in the articles like

600
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: right before the earthquake, TikTok and violent.

601
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, the violent video games of eighteen seventy eight.

602
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 2: The worst, so you would, but they were the worst.

603
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: You briefly inhabited the body of Special Detective Harvey. He

604
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,239
Speaker 3: took Paul Dorney down to the station for questioning, and

605
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 3: Paul said, the guy, a guy told him to come

606
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 3: with him to the butcher shop, Like who yeah, he's

607
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: going to cut him in on the take. Well, who

608
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: is this guy? His name's Happy Hooligans. Happy, there's this

609
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: Happy hooligan. Everybody in the neighbor knows him well, Happy

610
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 3: Hooligan when he's at home. Dennis Gallagher years old. So

611
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: the police they go pick up Happy Hooligan Happy and

612
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: they question him. He says he doesn't know anything about

613
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 3: the burglary. He wasn't there last night. Dennis the Happy

614
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 3: Hooligan eventually had his charges waived when he said he'd

615
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 3: join the navy. Yeah, yeah, they're just so. Then a

616
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 3: few months later he deserts his spot on the Pensacola

617
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: and he's arrested again. Yeah, but then while he's a wall,

618
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 3: he's arrested again for stealing a basket. I don't know anyway,

619
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 3: Like that's it, pal, wrap it up, Okay, but let's

620
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 3: focus back on young. So his case was sent to

621
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 3: juvenile court, and I can only assume he was sent

622
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 3: to juvenile hall to cool out for a little bit.

623
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 3: But let's jump forward two years March of nineteen oh six.

624
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 3: This is one month, almost exactly one month before the

625
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: earth split and the city caught fire and everything changed,

626
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 3: and yet nothing really changed. So after the quake, you know,

627
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 3: that kind of random destruction became a possibility for people,

628
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 3: a likelihood. But I always feel like there's an innocence

629
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 3: before that they don't know how horrible things can be.

630
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: Okay, do you think that the europe stood to California.

631
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: Did the eighteen twenty earthquake in California stay as something

632
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: that people remembered, like all this place shakes?

633
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's just a number of people that

634
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 3: were there in eighteen.

635
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: Twenty, not many at all. Is it part of like,

636
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: you know, do people even know that earthquakes are a risk?

637
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: I think that the majority do not. I think they

638
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 3: have small quakes, but they don't know they've never experienced

639
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 3: that pardon that pun. Yeah, And so here we're in

640
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: this time right before. It's sort of like when you

641
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 3: and I talk a lot about the time between World

642
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 3: War I and World War two, particularly in Europe and

643
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 3: in England, that you know, you don't know what's just

644
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 3: around the corner. You have this sense. And so that's

645
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 3: how I feel like this point is. And that's where

646
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: we find little Paul Dorney. He has graduated from supposed

647
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: dupe of happy hooligan to full on child faganesque gang leader.

648
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 3: Oh he becomes the Fagan.

649
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: He's like, I got this.

650
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so a.

651
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: Few months prior I don't need happy.

652
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 3: He held up a boy and took fifty cents from him.

653
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 3: He broke into a candy store on Hayte Street with

654
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: a fourteen year old named Edward Abrams, who was in

655
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 3: a Jewish orphan asylum. So he like befriends this little orphan,

656
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: is like, let's go rob a candy store, and the

657
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 3: two of them get together and run away. They made

658
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: their way south to Santa Is, where they were arrested.

659
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: Paul did six months with the Boys and Girls Aid Society,

660
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: and he'd been to the detention home four times at

661
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: this point, arrested several several times. So who's in his gang?

662
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 3: He's got Jack Durham twelve years old, Leslie Herbert sixteen,

663
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: George Peterson fourteen, George Fowler fourteen, and George had only

664
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: recently joined the gang after Paul convinced him to run

665
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: away from home. I joined my gang.

666
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: Oh, I got a gag. You love it. We don't

667
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: have bedtimes.

668
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 3: We have a boy known only as Mike Mike no

669
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 3: last name, fourteen years old, and then another boy known

670
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: only as Pete the Butcher's Kid.

671
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: Pete the Butcher's fifteen.

672
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: I hope he's not mister Helld's kid. Oh my god,

673
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 3: you know this is Pete, Pete the butcher.

674
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: Get your heart out, guy, Ritchie. Oh my god.

675
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: Seriously. So that mid March nineteen oh six, their crime

676
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 3: spree comes to a close. They've been pulling all sorts

677
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 3: of burglaries, robbery scams, and the police got a tip

678
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: that they had a den, a hideout, and there's this

679
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: vacant house on the corner of Page and Clayton, and

680
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 3: in the basement that was their headquarters. So here's what

681
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 3: the cops found when they raided the head Yeah, a mattress,

682
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 3: a hammer, a cobbler's nice.

683
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: That sounds like place go on.

684
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: I'm basically a hatchet, a bunch of keys, a bunch

685
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 3: of candles and some Then they had like all these

686
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,959
Speaker 3: other tools like these kind of like you know, maybe

687
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 3: a thermal lamp. They wanted to be able to remove

688
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: lead pipe and like gas fixtures and like other articles

689
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 3: of value from homes. So they were breaking in. They

690
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 3: were the copper piping thebs of their days, the non

691
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 3: methamphetamine copper thieves. They're breaking into houses and taking gas

692
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: fixtures like lamps from the and they had all the

693
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,479
Speaker 3: tools for the job likes, so Paul and the rest

694
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 3: of the boys they get arrested, George tells them everything.

695
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: George's it's just one one of the Georgie.

696
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 3: And the George's. He said that the basement was their

697
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 3: rendezvous point for many, many months. Oh, it's George, the

698
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 3: one who ran away from home.

699
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 2: George j George, George George.

700
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: So he's like, we've been living in this place for months.

701
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: It's fantastic. They sleep all the day long and then

702
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 3: they go out looting at night. They're amazing.

703
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: He's like the cruise director taking him around. And then

704
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: sometimes when we have time, we just throw darts at

705
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 2: the wall.

706
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 3: So they have this, like you said, never never land

707
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 3: like this, like boy's escape to do bad things. Let's

708
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 3: take a break. When we come back, I'm going to

709
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: give you a first hand account of this gang from

710
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 3: the leader himself.

711
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 7: Yes, hello, Elizabeth, kid gangs and old San Francisco.

712
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 3: Oh man, so you thought you were a rascally kid.

713
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: I have been put squarely in my place.

714
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so before we stepped aside for those fantastic ads.

715
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 3: By the way, they may annoy, but that's what keeps

716
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 3: this show free and it keeps iHeart from shutting us down.

717
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: You can no, don't do.

718
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: I didn't say that. Who said that?

719
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 3: That day before all that happens. I was telling you

720
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 3: about Paul Dorny. Can I also just mention we don't

721
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 3: know what adds play or for how long?

722
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, just understand that disconnected.

723
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 3: No control connection. So just that said, they.

724
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: Don't tell us. I know, yes, we record some You're like,

725
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: wait a minute, that was your voice. How do you

726
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: know what's going on? A lot of things we do.

727
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: We don't know what's going on exactly.

728
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 3: This is the story of my life. So I was

729
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: telling you about Paul Dorney. He got busted at that

730
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 3: butcher shop. Then a couple of years later he's running

731
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 3: a burglary ring.

732
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: What happened happened?

733
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 3: The San Francisco Examiner covered the bust itself and had

734
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 3: this observation quote. He talks in the language of convicts

735
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 3: and tramps and refers to his crimes with the nonchalance

736
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 3: of a hardened criminal. He's traveled all over California on

737
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 3: break beams and refers fluently of being jugged in Reno

738
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 3: into the tanks at Sanase.

739
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: This little kid, i'n't juno.

740
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 3: I'm gonna guess that means arrested.

741
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like thrown the drunk.

742
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 3: The drunk take in Rena, Oh boy Reno.

743
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: With a bunch of other people who are also fitting

744
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: to be in that same place.

745
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: With you do the math?

746
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so who wants to do a sing along?

747
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 3: Guys, there's more? The examiner has more. They interviewed the

748
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 3: boy himself.

749
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: You please. I love that.

750
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 3: It's like there's no parents stepping in, and the cops

751
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 3: aren't like, you don't get to talk to this boy.

752
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: Everyone wants everyone. Yeah, you gotta tell papers call to

753
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:40,479
Speaker 2: the boy.

754
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 3: I ran away from home a week ago, said Dorny.

755
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 3: I worked for a while as a messenger for the

756
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: Western Union, and I had to deliver two dollars and

757
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 3: ten cents. I lost the money. My father does not

758
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 3: want me at home, so I decided to go to

759
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 3: Watsonville with Fowler and get some work. I live at

760
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 3: one oh one Falcon Avenue and Fowler lives at one

761
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: o three on the same street. Since we left home,

762
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: we've slept in the cellar adjoining my house. I stole

763
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: food from my own house. I never went to the

764
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 3: place on Page Street until about five o'clock in the

765
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 3: morning yesterday. The gang has been there for about four months,

766
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 3: and Duram took me around there. I want Judge Moraski

767
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 3: to send me to Watsonville or give me a place

768
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 3: in a private family where I can work. I've made

769
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 3: a lot of promises to be good, and if I

770
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 3: had a chance, I would try. But now that the

771
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 3: police know me, I can't get anything to do. If

772
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 3: they send me to the Ione or Wittier reform schools,

773
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: it'll make a crook of me. I know lots of

774
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 3: boys who've been to those places, and they tell me

775
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 3: about them.

776
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: I like how this kid is basically somebody who would

777
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: later be like a middle aged man and a Steinbeck story.

778
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, he just wants work.

779
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to get back to Watsonville. I'm

780
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: just unwoilling to work a straight day for a good pain.

781
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 3: He's so hard boiled and so full of it.

782
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not.

783
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: A crook, even though I've been arrested so many times

784
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 3: that I've been in and out of juvie.

785
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 2: Like want to get down there.

786
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 3: It's all fowler. Fowlers always drewel out of the corner.

787
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 3: This kid has done so much more than the cops

788
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 3: even know about.

789
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 2: Okay, you know how like people who like kids in

790
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: the eighties were like like the flex on, like our parents.

791
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 2: They had to be reminded by the news to look

792
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: for us, Like it's ten o'clock, do you know where

793
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 2: your kids are? We ain't got nothing on these kids.

794
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: It's like these kids have been burned down. The news

795
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: stop bothering on parents.

796
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 3: Totally, totally. So then that the article continues, quote Fowler

797
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 3: has never been arrested before. He has never been able

798
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 3: to hold a job on account of his practical jokes.

799
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 3: He worked two days in a candy store and was

800
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: dismissed because he put vinegar in the ice cream. He

801
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 3: will probably be released on probation. Dorney will go to

802
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 3: Whittier as Judge Moraski agreed to release him two months

803
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 3: ago on a promise to reform, with the understanding that

804
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: the next time he was arrested he would go to

805
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 3: the reform school. Of course, I've never done anything, but

806
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 3: I know the Judge Moraski like, I know this here close.

807
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: He sent me to wait.

808
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and poor Fowler like, anyway.

809
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 2: Dude, people eating the vinegar ice cream The first lick

810
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 2: at that and you just want to cry. You've been

811
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 2: so excited about ice cream. You never get an ice

812
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 2: cream band like this is not only you can just

813
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 2: go down to the store and get this is a

814
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: major trade. You get the major trade. You're like, oh, cab,

815
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 2: maybe this is the first time you've ever tried ice cream.

816
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 3: They're not going to refund.

817
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: You totally enjoy that. Vandar kid. Maybe I hope you

818
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: got a sling. You can get it to them.

819
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 3: You're in buy in the counter. So I was unable

820
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: to trace Paul Dorny after this. Let's just let's say

821
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 3: he got a chance to go live with a family

822
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: and rite the ship.

823
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 2: I think he went down to Old Mexico.

824
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: I think he probably did ye Fisherman back when it

825
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 3: was the Sea of Corte.

826
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: He was down there.

827
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: So the only other kid that could track was Leslie Herbert.

828
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: And that was a story from two years prior, back

829
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 3: when Paul was trying to rob the butcher shop. So

830
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 3: this is from uh, this is from the June ninth,

831
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 3: nineteen oh four edition of the San Francisco Collin Post.

832
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 2: I don't know the call.

833
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 3: Headlined boy says cook kicked him.

834
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 2: That's the headline headline, so like man bites dog, boy

835
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 2: says yeah, Cook kicked him.

836
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 3: Morton L. Cook, printer and advertising man, was arrested yesterday

837
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 3: afternoon on a warrant issued by Police Judge Morgan, charging

838
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 3: him with battery. He was released on bail. The complaining

839
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 3: witnessed against him is Leslie Herbert fourteen seventy three Oak Street,

840
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 3: whose father is chief steward on the Transport. Thomas. The

841
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 3: Boy said that he and Cook's son had a fight

842
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 3: at Page Street and Central Avenue on Tuesday afternoon when

843
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: Cook ran up to him and kicked him in the groin. Ooh,

844
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: so he's fighting this kid and the kid's.

845
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: Dad's get boy, and you're like nuts them.

846
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 3: So the very best part of this isn't the poetic

847
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: placement of the groin punchline and the copy. In old papers,

848
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 3: they would fill empty column inches with like small items

849
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 3: or announcements or fun facts. In one of the other

850
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 3: articles I was reading for this, there was a note

851
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 3: underneath it that the wildflowers were in bloom and Santa

852
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 3: Clara County, and caravans with buggies would be leaving on

853
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 3: a certain day from like a certain place to go

854
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 3: look at them cute little things like that wild tour. Yeah.

855
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 3: So a lot of time there's not a very clear

856
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 3: delineation that the main article is over and the new item.

857
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 2: That is weird. I know exactly what you mean.

858
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 3: And that's sort of the case here. So at the

859
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 3: end of the article about Leslie and the kick and

860
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 3: the groin, there's like a little design flourish line and

861
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 3: then it says this, a woman five feet two inches

862
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: high should weigh one hundred and twenty pounds.

863
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 2: That's it.

864
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 3: That's it.

865
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: In moving the bottom of.

866
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 3: The paper, that's it. Just to quick enough. Fun fact,

867
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 3: duly noticed.

868
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 2: Stir this in your morning coffee.

869
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 3: Old papers are so weird or wonderful.

870
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yes you also all the updates like

871
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: this not society pages, but they'll just have to sprinkled

872
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: in there for this type of stuff. Like some and

873
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: so just got back from Canada. They're gonna have a

874
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 2: photo display.

875
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

876
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 3: Oh, or even even like more close to home, so

877
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 3: they're like, you know, someone's overturned from Sacramento the train.

878
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 2: You're okay, the actual announcement of like someone goes back,

879
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 2: mister Irving's back in town.

880
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 3: It's incredible.

881
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 2: You was your money.

882
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 3: You know, look, oh what a time. One of the

883
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 3: things that I find frustrating about the paper is that

884
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 3: they kind of all these old papers. They always assume

885
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: that you've been reading the paper in full every single day. Yes,

886
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 3: so they just sort of continue stories and don't ever

887
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,720
Speaker 3: give background, and like, it's not helpful in my research journey.

888
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 3: A lot of times, I got I got one more

889
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 3: for you before we go. It's a lone wolf, not

890
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 3: a gang. Oh but it's a good one.

891
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: I like it.

892
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: August of nineteen ten, little Ruth Schroeder got arrested. She's twelve. Yes,

893
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 3: she's caught pickpocketing a lady in a market.

894
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 2: Love it.

895
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 3: And they sent her to the detention home and she escaped.

896
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 3: She climbed over a sixteen foot fence. I knew I

897
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 3: liked her, and like, luckily there was a pile of

898
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: sand on the other side of the fence that she

899
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 3: was in. There hurt her legs, but yeah, but she

900
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 3: was fine, and she's just like out. Yeah. So first

901
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,919
Speaker 3: she runs into a saloon to hide, and they kicked

902
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 3: her out, and she's like one hundred percent dress like

903
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,439
Speaker 3: Anne of Green Gables. She like a little straw hat

904
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 3: on and a little sweater. The whole get up.

905
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 2: So she's not like this tight one of those curved

906
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: staff are like guiding sheep around.

907
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: She's not like this wizen little thing like you could

908
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: blend in at a saloon.

909
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 6: So they're like, get out of her kids. So she

910
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 6: runs off, so she could.

911
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 3: She goes into a church and she hides in a confessional. Yeah,

912
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 3: and so they of course found her, and she's dragon.

913
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 3: She tries to explain this like months long pickpocketing crime,

914
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 3: and this is she said that a man hypnotized her

915
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 3: and convinced her to steal. Brilliant the San Francisco Examine quote.

916
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 3: The man that made me steal never gave me anything.

917
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 3: He made me help him. Every time I saw him,

918
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: he would go to where there was lots of ladies

919
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 3: in the elevators. He'd always stand in the back at

920
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 3: the emporium at Hales and at the Lincoln Market. That's

921
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 3: where he would go with me. I don't know how

922
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 3: many persons I took for him, but every time I

923
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 3: took one, he go away quickly. He said, no one

924
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 3: would ever think I'd done it because I was so little.

925
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 3: It was easy the way he showed me like this

926
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 3: and with a quick adroit movement, the little slender hands

927
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 3: grasps the purse of the examiner representative and illustrated the

928
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 3: method of picking a pocket.

929
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 2: Hmm.

930
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 3: So she's like every time I do it, I'm in

931
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 3: a crowded store and there's a man that no one

932
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 3: else can see.

933
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 2: Huh. And you believe her?

934
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 3: No?

935
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 2: I do?

936
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 3: I believed her.

937
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 2: I believe it. I think that there was a man.

938
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: But I think that she's also pinning a lot of

939
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 2: her crimes on this person. So I think it's both.

940
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 3: So there's all this debate. There's this debate is she

941
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 3: telling the truth. The consensus seem to be that she's

942
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 3: making up this Fagan character, okay, and that she was

943
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 3: in this by and for herself.

944
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 2: I think she definitely was when she got caught.

945
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 3: Here's what the examiner said again quote. The Schroder house,

946
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 3: which stands on a sixty foot lot which the grandmother owns,

947
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,760
Speaker 3: was in the pink of neatness. The veranda was screened

948
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: in with a hedge of blossoming vines, and the garden

949
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 3: looked as if much care had been lavished on it.

950
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 3: The interior of the modest home was equally trim and

951
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 3: spotlessly clean. The family of missus Martin had resided there

952
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 3: since eighteen fifty, coming here from England, her father Jonathan Peel,

953
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 3: according to the grandmother, being first captain to Sir Robert Peel,

954
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 3: the great English lawmaker. I've got a little income, she said,

955
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 3: we're not hard up. Ruth had all she wanted. I

956
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 3: don't know how this happened, but this just broke me up.

957
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 3: When my other children hear of this, they'll all want

958
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 3: to go away from San Francisco for shame, sobbed the

959
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 3: old grandmother. So she comes from this nice family, Okay,

960
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 3: but there's more please. So they they call her mom

961
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 3: down to the station and she arrives in this like

962
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 3: velvet opera cloak, and she's just dripping in diamonds. She's

963
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 3: got all these rings this for her and she's drunk

964
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 3: as a skun.

965
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: I love this her pickled yes.

966
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 3: So they tell her gesticulations. They tell her, your daughter's

967
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 3: been arrested and then she tried to run away and

968
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 3: we found her and she was arrested for pick pock market.

969
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 3: And the mom hears this, flips out and tries to

970
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 3: strangle herself right there in the station. What with her

971
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 3: like cloak.

972
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 2: With her like opera gloves.

973
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the cloak she wraps And at first she

974
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 3: says she's going to strangle her daughter. Then she says,

975
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 3: I'm going to strangle myself.

976
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: One hand for each of us.

977
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 3: So they put her in a street jacket old school style. Yeah,

978
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 3: and like tell her like all right, cool out, like

979
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 3: I said. The cops dismissed the story about the man

980
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:26,439
Speaker 3: who hypnotized her.

981
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: Here's the report she learned her deft hand mode.

982
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 3: Well, here's the report in the Colin Post. Quote. The

983
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 3: child was subjected to a rigid cross examination, but this

984
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 3: only served to display a remarkable power of dissimulation and

985
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 3: of clever acting. Ruth admitted that she practiced stealing from

986
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 3: purses regularly every Saturday, but would not implicate her mother,

987
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: and naively said that she stole by toys and threw

988
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 3: the surplus money away quote so mama would not know.

989
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: When she was searched, twenty one dollars was found carefully

990
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 3: tucked away about her person, in her shoes and in

991
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 3: her waist. She admitted getting as much as one hundred

992
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 3: and fifty dollars on a Saturday from patrons of crowded

993
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 3: department stores and markets. Her attire was neat, and her

994
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: brown hair and candid, childish eyes would never have been

995
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 3: suspected of her rogue's cunning.

996
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,959
Speaker 2: So okay, the guy who trained her was her mom.

997
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: That's kind of what the papers keep hinting at.

998
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean some some adult no child comes

999
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 2: up with, like you don want me to get real

1000
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 2: good at not Jack's, I'm gonna get go to picking pockets.

1001
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna mind.

1002
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 3: She's obviously not turning the loot over to someone else,

1003
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 3: and I love when she's like, I spent it and

1004
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 3: I threw the rest away.

1005
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 2: I turned it out to her mom to more diamonds.

1006
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 3: So like she said that she saturdays one hundred and fifties,

1007
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 3: that's nearly five grands.

1008
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: Got to get you some diamonds.

1009
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 3: So it turns out that detectives they knew there wasn't

1010
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 3: a guy because they've been trailing her for two months.

1011
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 3: So they got tons of reports of this girl matching.

1012
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 2: Her description her for two months.

1013
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 3: Accused of purse matching. So a detective sees her in

1014
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 3: the store and goes to grab her arm and she

1015
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 3: runs and then he catches up with her and she

1016
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 3: falls to the ground. And in the paper they said

1017
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 3: she quote feigned hysteria. So the crowd in the store,

1018
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,439
Speaker 3: they get it around. Yeah, well they tell the guy,

1019
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 3: but they tell they get back up, back up, leave

1020
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 3: her alone. He has to flash his badge and he's like,

1021
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 3: this girl is shop lit. You know, she's pickpocketing people.

1022
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 3: People still defend her in the store. Of course she's back.

1023
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: Away, Yeah, doll baby.

1024
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 3: So they get her to the station.

1025
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 2: You leave that magic angel baby alone.

1026
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 3: All the evidence is laid in front of her, like

1027
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 3: we have this this, and then she first that's when

1028
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 3: she tries the story about the guy, you know, making

1029
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 3: her steel, that he hypnotized me before her mother comes in. Yeah,

1030
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 3: and then she and she ups it. He didn't just

1031
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 3: hypnotize me, he had a gun, and like, none of

1032
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 3: it starts to make sense. Finally she confesses to everything,

1033
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,919
Speaker 3: so her mom gets there. They finally calm her down.

1034
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: They let her go out of the street jacket.

1035
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 3: Out of the street jacket. Ruth gets sent to the

1036
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 3: detention home. She was there for less than a week

1037
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,479
Speaker 3: because they drop the charges, just let her walk why

1038
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 3: they could get any witnesses against her, and she'd muddied

1039
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 3: her confession so much with the hypnotist story first. But

1040
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 3: a year later, Ruth's mom was in the papers again.

1041
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: I'm telling you San Francisco Examiner quote missus Lillian Schroeder,

1042
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 3: mother of Ruth Schroeder, a child criminal. A child criminal

1043
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 3: whose career attracted the attention of many sociologists last August,

1044
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 3: burst into the limelight again last night when she caused

1045
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 3: the arrest of William Riardon on a charge of robbery.

1046
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 3: Huh so, Lillian. She told the cops that she'd spent

1047
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 3: the day hanging out with this.

1048
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 2: Guy, reared Billy.

1049
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 3: He gave her booze. They're having a good old time.

1050
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 2: Together playing card games.

1051
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then he slipped her a mickey and then

1052
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 3: took two diamond rings of hers worth one hundred and

1053
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 3: seventy bucks. Cops, they're familiar with this dude, so they

1054
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 3: arrest him. They find one of the rings on him, messy,

1055
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 3: just the way we love it. And then that was

1056
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 3: that is that for that story?

1057
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 2: Was he awake when they found him?

1058
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 3: Who knows?

1059
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if she, like, you know, you go.

1060
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 3: Off into the midst of time that happened. That's all

1061
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 3: we have, so we're left hanging on that.

1062
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: I do like that.

1063
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 3: I mean, is this is this your ridiculous takeaway? It

1064
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 3: could be Okay, let's have it.

1065
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 2: Okay, here you go, my ridiculous take away, Elizabeth, thank

1066
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 2: you for asking for yes once ever, Dave Sweel, make

1067
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 2: a note of this. Okay, to have your child be

1068
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 2: a child criminal and then to be known as the

1069
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 2: mother of that is doubly bad for I imagine a parent,

1070
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 2: because one is like, oh, you failed, But then two,

1071
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 2: let's say you were trying to raise that child to

1072
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 2: be a criminal. They've already outshined you at like eleven

1073
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 2: So either way, either way you want to look at it.

1074
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 3: And they drop the charges. But then a year later

1075
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: she's known as a child criminal in the papers.

1076
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've known worse since Elizabeth. What's your

1077
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 2: ridiculous takeaway?

1078
00:51:55,080 --> 00:52:01,760
Speaker 3: Kids are wild these every day? No, but I mean seriously,

1079
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 3: like you think about like they were running wild, they

1080
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 3: were totally.

1081
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 2: This is why people like say things about However, whenever

1082
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 2: anyone says about any group about how now is the

1083
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 2: worst thing or it's so whatever they say, I do

1084
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 2: not listen to them, because we have the benefit of

1085
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 2: history to remind us. You just don't know well, and

1086
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 2: you have a very limited perspective you're using to say,

1087
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: this is whatever these TikTok kids are doing, old people

1088
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 2: having sex in the retirement homes to giving each other

1089
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 2: as TV. It's whatever you're saying is wild. It's ain't new.

1090
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 3: The kids were shouldering a lot of responsibility too.

1091
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: They were little people.

1092
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 3: They had just a lot of adults just.

1093
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: Couldn't vote, they didn't have legal rights.

1094
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, in that regard, well, you know, it's like but

1095
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 3: there it was not.

1096
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: They had been smoking for eight years by the time

1097
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: they're ten.

1098
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 3: Drunk they got cirrhosis. No, but it was really common

1099
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: for people to you know, the kids, they didn't go

1100
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 3: to You had to be wealthy to go to school. Yes,

1101
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 3: everyone else you're working, you know, like I had relatives

1102
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 3: in that time.

1103
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 2: I you know, if you made a past eighth grade

1104
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 2: and that.

1105
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 3: Time where like paper boys are running messages delivery people. Yeah, exactly, and.

1106
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 2: So that's if you're not working in the factory or

1107
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: the fields.

1108
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 3: Most of them didn't get past like sixth grade at

1109
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 3: that point. And so they're also shouldering the burden of

1110
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,439
Speaker 3: like parents who are really struggling and.

1111
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,439
Speaker 2: Lots of financial ups and down time get to take

1112
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 2: care of other kids.

1113
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 3: Single single parents are one does at that point from

1114
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 3: some weird like their doctor didn't use the right medicine,

1115
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 3: or just if you know, if if if you got

1116
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,760
Speaker 3: a single mom, like she's ostracized instant, so you carry

1117
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 3: the burden of that and you're living in this poor

1118
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 3: neighborhood and everyone.

1119
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 2: So anyway, Interestingly, some people want to go back to this.

1120
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 2: How do we get rid of the regulations we've created,

1121
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 2: just stop from this happening? How do we get back

1122
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,240
Speaker 2: to like little hands get in the machine?

1123
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 3: Flavor issues is so insane?

1124
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 2: But whatever, that's I'm not.

1125
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 3: You know what, you know it will help? What else

1126
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,439
Speaker 3: talk about? Oh yeah that will help?

1127
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

1128
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 3: I love you.

1129
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 2: I think we need an episode devoted purely to Zarin's

1130
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: uh theories on mehmet this second go yes, you know

1131
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 2: how b oh man, Elizabeth, you are in for it now.

1132
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 2: I was just watching that this weekend. I was just

1133
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 2: checking back am a Man memed the second and the

1134
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 2: memoed versus Vlad, which I've recommended before I just I mean,

1135
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 2: the whole thing is amazing, right, like the story, but

1136
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 2: you can't find a lot of in like a good

1137
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 2: documentaries on MEMED. So I have to go back to

1138
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 2: the Memod versus Constantinople, Memod versus Blad just to hear

1139
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 2: those historians talk about it.

1140
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 3: I think you need to do a podcast memod.

1141
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 2: I could figure it fourteen fifty three for y'all.

1142
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, let's make it happen.

1143
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1144
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 3: Letter writing campaign. So for today, you can find us

1145
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 3: online at ridiculous Crime dot com. Great website Class Act.

1146
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 2: Thirteen time James Beard Award.

1147
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 3: Winner, Car and Drivers Top website over Yeah, We're at

1148
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime. On Twitter and Instagram. You can email Ridiculous

1149
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 3: Crime at jamail dot com. Leave us a talkback on

1150
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 3: the iHeart app. Please reach out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted

1151
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 3: by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett, produced and edited by

1152
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 3: Big Richard Dave Cousten, age ten, starring Annalise Rutger as Judith.

1153
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 3: Research is by Leader of the West Side Toy Bandits

1154
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 3: mrsa Brown, age nine, and pint Size counterfeiter Andrea song Sharpenteer,

1155
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 3: age six, The theme song is by tween Gun runners

1156
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 3: Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. Host wardrobe is provided by

1157
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 3: Botany five hundred. Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot and

1158
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 3: mister Andre. Executive producers are three year old Pickpocket Ben

1159
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 3: Bowen and Toddler Safecracker Noel Brown.

1160
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 5: Ridicous Crime, Say It One More Time Requious Crime.

1161
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

1162
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,120
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1163
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.