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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing

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Speaker 1: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?

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Speaker 2: Indeed we do Trump bringing the world together, perhaps not

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Speaker 2: in the way that he intended. We'll take a look

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Speaker 2: at that big summit with China and India and Russia

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Speaker 2: all coming together, among others. Saga and I are also

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Speaker 2: going to do a little deep dive into that DEM

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Speaker 2: influencers scandal, the dark money funding of ninety plus Democratic

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Speaker 2: Party influencers, So a lot that's really interesting there, I

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Speaker 2: think to dig into about media and the future of

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Speaker 2: the Democratic Party. What is even independent media so excited

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Speaker 2: to talk about all of that. I'm a little obsessed

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Speaker 2: with the story, to be totally honest with you, We're

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Speaker 2: also going to take a look at some big questions

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Speaker 2: about Donald Trump's health. He has been very scarce, hasn't

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Speaker 2: spoken to the press on camera in quite a number

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Speaker 2: of days, very unusual for him. And Sager. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you have the latest updates, but the pizza

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Speaker 2: tracker was off the charts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the tracker's been off the charts for weeks though.

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Speaker 1: That's part of the issue. Now, Look, we're going to

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Speaker 1: get into it, and just in general, I'm enjoying that.

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Speaker 1: I'm enjoying everyone having fun on the internet, which we

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Speaker 1: should all come together. Absolutely. I told you guys on

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Speaker 1: my planning called the most fun I ever had was

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Speaker 1: speculating about Hillary's health in twenty sixteen. So to the left,

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Speaker 1: you're welcome back to the internet. We're all about having fun.

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Speaker 1: No more taboos. Let's get down into the conspiracy land,

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Speaker 1: let's zoom in on Trump's brows, let's make shit up.

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Speaker 1: This is the fun stuff. Yeah, right, so this is

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Speaker 1: what we live for.

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of questions about the pictures that

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Speaker 2: have been put posted Walter Reid entrances to it were closed,

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Speaker 2: like the roads were closed, the camera that's across from

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Speaker 2: it was turned off. There are many details to dig into,

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Speaker 2: and we will bring you as all of those.

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Speaker 1: As a former White House correspondent who's actually been to

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Speaker 1: Walter Reid with Trump and more, I can also give

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Speaker 1: you some of my So I'm not debunking per se,

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Speaker 1: but I can give you some context. We will see

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Speaker 1: Trump later.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like a buzzkill soccer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I will entertain and enjoy, and I will also

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Speaker 1: give some of the facts. Trump is scheduled though, by

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Speaker 1: the way, to speak sometime later today, So who knows,

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Speaker 1: who knows what he's gonna say? Who knows?

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Speaker 3: Who knows?

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Speaker 1: The plot?

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Speaker 2: Sickends, all right, and then we'll turn to some very

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Speaker 2: serious news. With the card to Israel, two United States

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Speaker 2: senators were actually blocked by Israel from being able to

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Speaker 2: fly over Gaza. We also have now revealed the potential

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Speaker 2: Gaza Riviera Plan, which is one of the sickest and

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Speaker 2: most dystopian documents I have literally ever laid my eyes on. Also,

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Speaker 2: a group of scholars just overwhelmingly voted. The top side

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Speaker 2: scholars in the world just overwhelmingly voted yes, of course,

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Speaker 2: in fact, this is a genocide. And then on a

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Speaker 2: lighter note, we're going to take a look at a

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Speaker 2: US Open controversy that did grip the internet when a

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Speaker 2: Polish CEO stole the hat from a young boy who

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Speaker 2: had been given it by a star tennis player who

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Speaker 2: had just won his match.

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Speaker 3: So we'll take a look at that.

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Speaker 2: We're also going to and Shalla, do the AMA live today.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, no, it's happening. It will happen in some form,

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Speaker 1: we promise, and we're very sorry about all the technical difficulties.

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Speaker 1: I won't bore everybody with exactly what's been happening, but

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Speaker 1: we have been agonizing and working to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we get it all done. So thank you all very

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Speaker 1: much to our premium subscribers for sticking with us, and

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Speaker 1: if you want to be able to support the show,

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Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. Actually, you know, maybe I'll even save

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Speaker 1: the pitch for a little bit later on. But a

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Speaker 1: lot of what we have done to design the show

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Speaker 1: the way that it's funded and more not only keeps

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Speaker 1: us inculcated from scandals like this chorus thing going on

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Speaker 1: with the Influencer's block, But I do recommend for people

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Speaker 1: to stick around for that block in particular, just to

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Speaker 1: tell everyone the exact mechanics of how this stuff all

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Speaker 1: works and why we are set up the way that

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Speaker 1: we are, which is pretty unique compared to most like

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Speaker 1: you know, independent shows or whatever. And there are reasons

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Speaker 1: for that that keep us away and you know, insulated

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Speaker 1: from some of the major pressures that are out there,

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Speaker 1: business pressures, political pressures, and more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we set up the show, as you guys know,

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Speaker 2: very intentionally to try to avoid any sort of even

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Speaker 2: appearance of impropriety. And you know, Soccer and I, both

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Speaker 2: jointly and separately, have learned a lot about the sort

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Speaker 2: of influence that can be exerted on you or attempted

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Speaker 2: to be exerted on you, and so we wanted to

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Speaker 2: make sure to insulate this show and guarantee that we

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Speaker 2: would never be in that position. So talk about the

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Speaker 2: scandal with the Democrats, we'll talk about, you know, why

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Speaker 2: we set up the show that we did. And I

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Speaker 2: think there's a lot to think about as we consider

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Speaker 2: what is even independent media and how do we build

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Speaker 2: an ecosystem that actually is is genuinely better the mainstream press,

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Speaker 2: so totally agree.

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Speaker 3: With all that being said. Let's go ahead and get

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Speaker 3: to this summit. Zogera.

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Speaker 1: Yes, some major news out of the SEO. If you're

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Speaker 1: wondering what the SEO is, if you had heard about,

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Speaker 1: it's the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. It was set up back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and one. It's kind of been China.

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Speaker 1: It is difficult to describe. It's not really like a

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Speaker 1: G seven alternative. It was originally kind of set up

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Speaker 1: as a regional summit by the Chinese to exert power

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Speaker 1: in East Asia, not just there, but specifically to try

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Speaker 1: and group together non US allies. Warsaw Pact might be,

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Speaker 1: you know, semi apt example, but it's not NATO, it's

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Speaker 1: not any of these types of things. It's just a

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Speaker 1: meeting kind of of the minds. It has become kind

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Speaker 1: of an alternative to the US and Western led order.

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Speaker 1: Now China this year, in particular, capitalizing on some of

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Speaker 1: the alienation by the Trump administration of many of the

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Speaker 1: global powers. And the number one story that has come

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Speaker 1: out of the SEO this year is the just red

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Speaker 1: carpet rolled out for a Prime Minister Narendra Modi of

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Speaker 1: India as well as President of Russia Vladimir Putin. The

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Speaker 1: three of them President she, President Putin and Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: Mody put on a full display of friendship, very non

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Speaker 1: subtly signaling to the United States at their pressure of

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Speaker 1: sanctions and all that is not going to work. And

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Speaker 1: the most stunning images really was the trilateral meeting between

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Speaker 1: those three leaders, walking together, smiling together and sending a

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Speaker 1: massive middle finger to Washington. So here is some of

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Speaker 1: the footage from the SEO.

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Speaker 4: Putin and India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi held hands as

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Speaker 4: they met before the summit and appeared jovial together as

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Speaker 4: they spoke with g surrounded by translators. At a bilateral meeting,

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Speaker 4: Putin addressed Mody as his dear friend and said relations

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Speaker 4: with developing dynamically.

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Speaker 1: So you could see the Prime Minister Modi was there

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Speaker 1: with Russian President Vladimir Putin sishingping joined the three of them.

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister Mody actually called Putin his dear friend. The

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Speaker 1: now continuing plans to build or to buy Russian oil.

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Speaker 1: Another major story that came out of the SEO this

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Speaker 1: year is actually a pipeline that was announced between China

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Speaker 1: and Russia deepening the energy ties. So basically all of

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Speaker 1: US policy currently towards India, towards China and Russia has

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Speaker 1: been trying to end the war in Ukraine. And some

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Speaker 1: of the things that we've been covering now here for

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Speaker 1: years has been how the US led financial system has

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Speaker 1: just simply not been able to deliver what was promised.

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Speaker 1: They said that they would crush the Russian war machine

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Speaker 1: and hasn't happened. They've gone after India with fifty percent tariffs.

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Speaker 1: They said that they would buckle. Instead the opposite nearind

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Speaker 1: Remodi flying to, I think is Tanjin, where he met

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Speaker 1: with these three leaders and again just holding up a

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Speaker 1: giant middle finger to Washington and basically embracing China and saying, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: we will cooperate with whoever we need to cooperate with.

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Speaker 1: Part of the reason this matters is that since twenty

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Speaker 1: eleven there has been a assessment here in Washington about

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Speaker 1: the so called pivot to Asia, which I believe with

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Speaker 1: all with all my heart, which is that Western Europe

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Speaker 1: and the Middle East have diminishing returns for our relationship

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Speaker 1: with those two places that we're too obsessed with them,

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Speaker 1: which we spent too much of our money obsessing over

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Speaker 1: these foreign conflicts. Israel and Ukraine are the perfect poster

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Speaker 1: children for that fifty percent of global GDP will be

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Speaker 1: in East Asia in just a few years. You're already

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Speaker 1: watching now the limited value of dollar sanctions. The bricks

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Speaker 1: phenomenon has been one that's been talked about for quite

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Speaker 1: some time, but this is kind of the closest that

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Speaker 1: bricks in particular has come to becoming a real thing,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to be covering it now. But in

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Speaker 1: the China, you know, in the China sense in particular,

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Speaker 1: it is just stunning to see how they have especially

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Speaker 1: used the Trump years and the Trump administration to put

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Speaker 1: themselves as the official like number two superpower in the world,

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Speaker 1: and in my opinion, you know, operating very smartly. So

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Speaker 1: let's put this up here on the screen. This was

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Speaker 1: Shishinping outlines China's ambition to reshape the world order in

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Speaker 1: show Peace Summit, a quote unquote shock and awe Victory

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Speaker 1: Day military parade. There's a real military parade. By the way,

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Speaker 1: they actually do not have to march over there in

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Speaker 1: China this week, we'll see thrust it out.

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Speaker 3: Thanks the guys that are not a march. None of that.

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Speaker 1: Seeks not sponsored by Palenteer or coinbase or any of

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Speaker 1: those guys. You know, they don't do that over there.

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Speaker 1: It seeks to quote recast the Second World War narrative.

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Speaker 1: He's called on Shi, Russia, Indian and other China countries

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Speaker 1: in the region to join China and leveraging their economic influence,

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Speaker 1: specifically to challenge the West at a time of rising

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Speaker 1: geopolitical and trade ambitions. Hosting the Regional Security Forum on

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Speaker 1: Monday with more than twenty leaders, he said that the

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Speaker 1: world is undergoing turbulence and change, that they need to

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Speaker 1: uphold a quote orderly multi polar world. So you could

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Speaker 1: not make it more clear what their goal was and

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Speaker 1: put a three please on the screen. I thought the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post did a pretty decent job of kind of

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Speaker 1: summing it up here. They just say trying to tries

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Speaker 1: to use Trump turmoil to unite leaders against the US

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Speaker 1: led order. It's interesting because all three of these leaders,

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Speaker 1: the flagship leaders that gathered at the SCO, have their

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Speaker 1: own reasons for challenging the US light status quo. Putin

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Speaker 1: has Ukraine, China just has its you know, they want

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Speaker 1: to declare complete independence from the West and seek to

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Speaker 1: build a second financial system, the second global order that

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Speaker 1: they run, which obviously is to their benefit. It's the

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Speaker 1: same thing the United States did with the so called

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Speaker 1: US World Order. India has always kind of played its

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Speaker 1: cards close to its chest. They've been very suspicious of

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Speaker 1: the United States since the nineteen seventies. The US alliance

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Speaker 1: with Pakistan is something that continues to grind their gears.

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Speaker 1: Here in Washington, there has been a agreement under the

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Speaker 1: so called Pivot to Asia. It's like, well, if we

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Speaker 1: want to quote unquote isolate China or keep US friends

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Speaker 1: in the region, then we need to make sure that Japan,

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Speaker 1: South Korea, and India, the three most powerful nations in

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Speaker 1: East Asia, are rock solid with the US. But the

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Speaker 1: Trump terriffs have done more to offset the Pivot to

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Speaker 1: Asia than any single peace of foreign policy that I

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Speaker 1: could think of in just the last twenty years. Like, yes,

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Speaker 1: the Israeli Session, the Ukraine of Session indirectly takes away,

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Speaker 1: but the levying and the targeting of India, and then

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Speaker 1: the failure of the sanctions on Russia are just two

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Speaker 1: glaring opportunities for China, and you're really watching like a

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Speaker 1: reverse Nixon happen where Nixon famously opens China wants to

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Speaker 1: separate China from Russia and the Soviet Union, to split

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Speaker 1: the two powers, to establish and break apart, you know,

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Speaker 1: global communism, and instead we have had what we have

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Speaker 1: seen happen is is if we had forced the two

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Speaker 1: together through basically, you know, an entirely a fault of

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Speaker 1: our own. So it is the most important story in

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Speaker 1: the world, there's no question for a long time.

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Speaker 2: And then you add Brazil to that mix, yes, and

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Speaker 2: you have of course we've been following the way that

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Speaker 2: you know, a series of tariffs have been levied on

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Speaker 2: Brazil because Trump isn't happy about what their court system

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Speaker 2: is doing with regard to Bolsonaro, trying to you know,

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Speaker 2: do his own coup in Brazil in a very Trumpian fashion,

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Speaker 2: and so you truly have a situation where he has

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Speaker 2: united these nations in an alliance that you know was

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Speaker 2: previously would have been very difficult because they are very

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Speaker 2: different nations. They have very different interests, They have their

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Speaker 2: own you know, concerns, squabbles, et cetera. And yet in

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Speaker 2: the face of this insane tariff regime, they truly have

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Speaker 2: sort of come together in this way. It's also very

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Speaker 2: interesting the narrative, like the rhetoric coming from China recasting

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Speaker 2: the end of World War Two and their own role

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Speaker 2: really highlighting their own role in defeating fascism and building

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Speaker 2: that post war international order, and effectively what they're saying

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Speaker 2: is listen, the US, they're a bunch of hypocrites. They've

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Speaker 2: dropped the ball on this. We're going to actually build

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Speaker 2: out the inclusive multipolar world based on international law and

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Speaker 2: be the true inheritors of.

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Speaker 3: The legacy of the.

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Speaker 2: Post war international order and build out this new multipolarity

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Speaker 2: in a way that respects the interest of all these

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Speaker 2: countries around the world. So, you know, for a lot

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Speaker 2: of nations that are being hit with tariffs in subjected

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Speaker 2: to this very sort of like capricious foreign policy from

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration, this is obviously extremely appealing, and it

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Speaker 2: also is a recognition of the reality of where we

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Speaker 2: are as as you know, a globe, as the world

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Speaker 2: right now. You know, the funny we were sharing with India.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons that Trump got like upset with

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Speaker 2: India and started throwing all these tariffs on them, and

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Speaker 2: like throwing a fit about India is because Mody wouldn't

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Speaker 2: accept his narrative about brokering the seaspire between India and

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Speaker 2: Pakistani was like that really didn't have anything to do

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Speaker 2: with you. And then Trump wanted him to nominate him

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Speaker 2: for the Nobel Peace Prize and he was like, uh,

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Speaker 2: not doing that either, actual, yeah, and so, and that

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Speaker 2: is what sparks Trump's rage at India. So you know,

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Speaker 2: you can't deal with someone like that, Like, you can't

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Speaker 2: work with someone who is so unseerious, so capricious, and

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Speaker 2: so frankly insane in the way that he operates.

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Speaker 1: Something I just have come to deeply respect about many

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Speaker 1: of these nations is the level of seriousness which that

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Speaker 1: they take their g politics. So in China, you know,

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Speaker 1: we I've talked to her endlessly about industrial policy. They

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Speaker 1: have orders of engineers in every bureau managing the state.

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Speaker 1: It's capitalism, making sure that the factories are being built properly,

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Speaker 1: put in the right places, spreading economic development, building roads,

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Speaker 1: high speed and all. The alternative to that is I

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Speaker 1: recently saw a video of a guy who was the

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Speaker 1: equivalent of Google searching the word dictator and they call

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Speaker 1: him in. They call it you need to come for

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Speaker 1: tea in Chinese to the Chinese police department. They literally

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Speaker 1: go through your search results. Why'd you search for this?

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Speaker 1: Why did you search for this? Why did you search

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Speaker 1: for this? That's just part of the social contract. In India,

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Speaker 1: for example, they Jay Schunker, who's their foreign minister, and

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Speaker 1: many of these other these tarned serious students of US

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Speaker 1: global foreign policy who sit around and are like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what are all the big mistakes that we have made here?

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Speaker 1: How can India further itself? We have all these problems,

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Speaker 1: all of this poverty and corruption, and we also have

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Speaker 1: our own political issue. Use how do we square this circle?

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Speaker 1: Set India up for the future, have technological development, make

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Speaker 1: sure that the country is insulated from the West. You

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Speaker 1: know their seriousness around tariffs, and look, I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: I support their tariff system, but because bad it is

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Speaker 1: bad for us empirically. But one of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: they have such massive capital controls on the country is

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Speaker 1: they're like, we will not be messed with by other country, period,

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Speaker 1: even if it means sacrificing interim economic growth. I recently

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Speaker 1: just read a book by a guy named Dan Wang

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Speaker 1: about China. It's such an incredible book. I highly recommend

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Speaker 1: everybody go out and get it. One of the things

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Speaker 1: that she determined some ten years ago is he's like

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Speaker 1: financial markets and stock market shareholderism is good for the

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Speaker 1: super elite, it's bad for companies, it's bad for development.

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Speaker 1: So that's just not something that we're going to do

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Speaker 1: as a nation. Boom. I mean, and they have the

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Speaker 1: ability to be able to do that. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: I favor their system, but I favor the seriousness and

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Speaker 1: the level of thought that they put into how they're

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Speaker 1: going to try and challenge the West. Let's put a

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Speaker 1: four please up on the screen and you can just

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Speaker 1: see here. I mean, this is the biggest troll that

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Speaker 1: you could ever have. Right after the Putin Trump summit,

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Speaker 1: Mody posts this photo of him in the Russian presidential

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Speaker 1: vehicle and he says, after the proceedings of the SEO

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Speaker 1: President Putin I traveled together to the venue of our

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Speaker 1: bilateral meeting. Conversations with him are always insightful. Apparently they

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Speaker 1: spent nearly an hour, you know, in the car together

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Speaker 1: just talking. I guess really about the challenges of Trump

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Speaker 1: about how they're going to navigate the relationship between their

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Speaker 1: two countries. And meanwhile, you know, we just have the

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Speaker 1: absolute base level of idiocy here in our nation. For

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Speaker 1: our discourse. Peter Navarro, who is the trade counselor for

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump has I mean, he's the attack dog, right

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I actually respected Peter in the

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Speaker 1: first term I read his book. I don't think he's

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Speaker 1: wrong necessarily about tariffs. But the worst problem with Peter

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Speaker 1: is that he turned himself into like this January sixth hero.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's Trump's most loyal warrior. So when Trump

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Speaker 1: decides to declare war on India because he's butt hurt

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Speaker 1: that they won't dominate him for the Nobel Peace Prize,

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Speaker 1: he goes all in. He adopts the rhetoric. He's like

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Speaker 1: a household name. Now in India, if you watch the

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Speaker 1: news over there, I've been checking in to see how

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Speaker 1: they tolerate this. And this is the level of discourse

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Speaker 1: that we're currently hearing for Peter Navarro and from the

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Speaker 1: Treasure Treasury Secretary Scott Bessen on India. Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 5: Modi's a great leader I don't understand why he's getting

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Speaker 5: to bed with Putin and Shijin Peng Whin. He's the

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Speaker 5: biggest democracy in the world. So I would just simply

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Speaker 5: say the Indian people, please understand what's going on here.

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Speaker 5: You got Brahmins profiteering at the expense of the Indian people.

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Speaker 5: We need that to stop.

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Speaker 1: So this is going to be a deep cut for

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Speaker 1: those of you who are not familiar with the Indian

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Speaker 1: cast system. But what Peter Navarro basically is saying there,

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Speaker 1: it's that these high cast Indians, the Brahmans in India

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Speaker 1: are profiteering. Now, if you knew anything about said system,

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Speaker 1: you would know that the Bramins are actually not the

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Speaker 1: business class and not the major oligarchs who are in India.

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Speaker 1: Just saying this is an empirical fact check, but it

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Speaker 1: just shows the extent to which they're basically just grasping

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Speaker 1: for whatever like low iq you know, cast to slash

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Speaker 1: like criticism that you can have of India and then

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Speaker 1: broadcasting it to the world. Their new line is that

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Speaker 1: India is a democracy, so they need to align with

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Speaker 1: democratic values. I have news for you here. India is

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Speaker 1: a democracy and they know who you are and they

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Speaker 1: know who Trump is, they know who America is. They've

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Speaker 1: been pissed at America ever since Biden's singled amount about

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Speaker 1: Russian oil. You guys are making it ten times worse,

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Speaker 1: I can guarantee you, by the way, Mody, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not like he won a stunning reelection. He's probably

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Speaker 1: more popular than ever right now. But doing these types

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Speaker 1: of move the Indian intelligentsia, the Indian from the from

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Speaker 1: like the people who cannot even read, who vote, all

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Speaker 1: the way up to the intelligentsia are literally united against

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Speaker 1: the United States right now in a way that I

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Speaker 1: have never seen from a country which you know, how

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Speaker 1: many millions of people in India originally wanted to come here.

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Speaker 1: There's still a lot of Indian immigrants, you know, apply

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Speaker 1: h one bvs that we talked about that that's more

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Speaker 1: of a domestic political issue. But I see a lot

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Speaker 1: of that changing over in the next period, which you know,

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Speaker 1: I know some of the white nationalists and other people

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Speaker 1: will be happy about that. But at a very base level,

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Speaker 1: like America, the global empire is basically crumbling all around us.

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Speaker 1: For what for Ukraine or for Trump's ego, for israel

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, all of these things are actually

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Speaker 1: all interconnected Israel. Israel is actually probably the most important

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Speaker 1: part of the story, which sounds crazy to say, but

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Speaker 1: the reason why is that for years, the United States

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Speaker 1: goes abroad wags its finger. It's like, oh, you can't

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Speaker 1: be doing this. You're authoritarian and you're bad. You're feeling

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Speaker 1: bad things around the world. And the Chinese and the

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Speaker 1: Russians and the Indian were like, oh, yeah, how's i

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Speaker 1: Raq doing the thriving democracy? But now you know, you

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Speaker 1: have Iraq, you have Libya, you have Syria, you have Israel,

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Speaker 1: you have Ukraine. Right, all of those things together, and

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Speaker 1: they're like, we're not listening to you anymore. We don't

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Speaker 1: care what you have to say. And you put that

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Speaker 1: together and that's how you get to saying hi the

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Speaker 1: SEO meeting of twenty twenty five, which I do think

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Speaker 1: will be a landmark moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Ukraine is complex, right, so it's it's less

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Speaker 2: clear cut. Russia did invade, so there is a sort

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Speaker 2: of there is a liberal international value that is being

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Speaker 2: upheld there. Truly, Israel is not complex, like we are

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Speaker 2: supporting a genocide, we are supporting colonization, we are supporting

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Speaker 2: outright occupation.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk later about this, just.

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Speaker 2: Like PowerPoint ethnic cleansing plan that's being floated, where by

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Speaker 2: the way, the US is going to be the protectorate.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sure you guys are all going to be

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Speaker 2: really excited about that. It is so glaringly obvious in fact,

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Speaker 2: you know, truly, I know they put on a sort

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Speaker 2: of like joint statement about Israel in the context of

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Speaker 2: this of this summit, want to they should do more.

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Speaker 2: I mean the opening is there's truly it's truly wide open.

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Speaker 2: You know, the the last majority of the world's population

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Speaker 2: is in horror and shock at what is being done

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Speaker 2: in Gaza right now and disgusted with Israel. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Israel truly is a pariah nation everywhere except in this

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Speaker 2: particular area where we sit right now in DC among

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Speaker 2: elites right here. And so you know, there really is

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Speaker 2: a wide open lane to show global leadership and to

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Speaker 2: show no, we really are the true arbiters, we really

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Speaker 2: are the true representatives of this international world order.

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00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I think it's important in that context

435
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: just to show you how a lot of the rhetoric

436
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 1: is just crumbling. Let's put AA up on the screen, please,

437
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: and you can see very clearly. Like what they say

438
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 1: from the SEO is that Member States strongly condemned the

439
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: military strikes by Israel and the United States of America

440
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: against Iran in June of twenty twenty five. Quote. Such

441
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,959
Speaker 1: aggressive actions against civilian targets, including nuclear energy, which results

442
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: in the debath of civilians, are a gross violation of

443
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 1: the principles and the norms of international law and the

444
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 1: UN Charter, and infringement on the sovereignty of the Islamac

445
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: Republic of vir On. They undermine regional and international security

446
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: and have serious implications for global peace and stability. Now,

447
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: no one should should delude themselves into thinking that China

448
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: and you know, Russia in particular care all that much

449
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,239
Speaker 1: about civilian casualties. But that's where the rhetoric and all

450
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: that stuff matters, because you know, Russia, the United States

451
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: basically accused Russia of committing a quote genocide over Buka,

452
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: all right. I mean, if you look today in the

453
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: US intelligentsia, they're like, Putin is a child murderer, right

454
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: for the strikes, And that's true, it's true, right, you know, yes,

455
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 1: strikes have killed children, civilians all across of Ukraine. But

456
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: how can you sit there and say that you need

457
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 1: to use the full weight of the empire when you're

458
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: also backing up what's going on in Israel. You can't.

459
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: The thing doesn't square. So then it's actually not about

460
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: any of that. What it's really about is power, and

461
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 1: that's what those countries understand more than anything. You know,

462
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 1: the Chinese for long have held on this thing called

463
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: mutual respect, where they're like, look, well, you guys do

464
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: what you want to do, and we're going to do

465
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 1: what we want to do. But we don't want to

466
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: be hearing about any leaguers. We don't want you guys

467
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: to be talking about Taiwan or any of this other

468
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 1: stuff because that's our business and we don't tell you

469
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: how to run Alaska or Hawaii or any of that

470
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: type of stuff. Well, I think that that hits even

471
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: harder again in the year twenty twenty five, in the

472
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: context of everything that is all happening. And again, just

473
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 1: to highlight all this brick stuff, let's put this video

474
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: here of between Lula and between Mody. I mean, this

475
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: is not really something that you would see. It's not

476
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: that long ago. You could see the two leaders grasping hands, hugging,

477
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: you know, coming together, basically trying to broadcast to the

478
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: world that this alternative system is one which they are

479
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: fully embracing. These are both two leaders who have been

480
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: hit with some fifty percent tariffs, both capriciously under the

481
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: Trump administration, with no you know, strategy or any of

482
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: that behind it. And meanwhile Trump is just you know,

483
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: spouting off. Here's his latest. We could put it up

484
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 1: there on the screen. Quote. What few people understand is

485
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: that we do very little business with India. That's not true,

486
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: by the way. It's the tenth largest training partner with

487
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: the US, but they do a tremendous amount of business

488
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: with us. In other words, they sell us massive amounts

489
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: of goods their biggest client, but we sell them very

490
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: little until now, a totally one sided relationship. It has

491
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: been that way for decades. The reason is that India's

492
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: charged US until now such high tariffs the most of

493
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: any country, that our businesses are unable to sell into India.

494
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: It has been totally one sided disaster. India buys most

495
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: of its oil and military products from Russia, very little

496
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: from the US. They've now offered to cut their tariffs

497
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: to nothing, but it's getting too late. They should have

498
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: done so years ago. Just some simple facts for people

499
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: to ponder. But what Trump doesn't really get is that

500
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: this is a vindication of the Indian strategy. They're high tariffs,

501
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: high capital controls, and more on the country are exactly

502
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: what insulate them from tariff threats because they know they

503
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: planned for this for years. They saw what happened with

504
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: their nuclear program. By the way, they've banned bitcoin a

505
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: long time ago. Anything that challenges the primacy of the

506
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: state of the roopie and of the ability for India

507
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: to remain sovereign. They knewke it and they see it

508
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: very early. TikTok over there not even a question. They're like,

509
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: it's done. They panned it years ago because again, for them,

510
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: they care about sovereignty. It would be nice to live

511
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: in a country that actually cared about things like that.

512
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: Same with the Chinese, and so they know and they've

513
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: studied this Russian sanctions now for years and they see

514
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, doesn't matter so much. Got oil, got guns,

515
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: We got a lot of production capacity. Some of the

516
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: world's i think the world's largest population in India will

517
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: be all right. And that's basically the you know, the

518
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: path that they are choosing. They can do enough business

519
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: to sustain themselves. Not gonna say it's gonna hurt. It

520
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: certainly will, but broadly they're making enough of a bet that,

521
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: especially you know, everyone again talks about democracy over there,

522
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: it would not be popular to capitulate to Donald Trump.

523
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that if people in China or

524
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: Russia could vote too, like for real vote, all of

525
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: them would probably back up standing up against the US.

526
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: So that's part of the democratic principle. That a lot

527
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: of people in the West are not ready for democracy

528
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: doesn't ultimately mean we're all good friends here. It means

529
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: will of the people. I'm pretty sure that what's happening

530
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: there over there is actually the will of the people.

531
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's ironic too, because Trump and Mody

532
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways were natural allies because they

533
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 2: actually share like similar nationalist ideologies, and in the first

534
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: administration there was much more you could see much more

535
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: of that overlap and you know, that sort of sympatico

536
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 2: view of the world. Can we put a six backup

537
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: on the screen there, Sager, just take a look at

538
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 2: this image and tell me, do you think that this

539
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: is the cure for the toxic masculinity of the manisphere?

540
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 3: Do you think this is it right here?

541
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: What do you mean?

542
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: This is this very tend more loving affectionate between these

543
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: two powerful alpha male Sure, yeah, I think this is

544
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: a model for the world.

545
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I could go with that. I can

546
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: see it. I mean, you know, Mody is an interesting character.

547
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call him like an alpha male. He is

548
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for things like yoga and fast

549
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like Indian male in their context. It

550
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: doesn't really translate to the West. But I don't know.

551
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't really know enough about Lula to be able

552
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: to say the same. But I do know watching all

553
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: of this is it's one of the most broadcasted screw

554
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: yous against the United States, genuinely. I mean, I can't

555
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: think of another time that the leaders of the most

556
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: powerful states outside of the Western hemisphere would gather together

557
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: and in an explicit go fuck yourself, you know, to

558
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: the United States.

559
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: Well, I keep thinking about what Professor Jeffreys ACXE told us,

560
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 2: which is that our decision to levy these sanctions on

561
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: these tariffs on India as a result of their decision

562
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: to continue buying Russian oil. He called it one of

563
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: the most foolish policy mistakes, foreign policy mistakes that the

564
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: US has made in years. And that's saying a lot,

565
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: because we've made a lot of really horrific mistakes in

566
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 2: recent years and decades. And this is why, I mean,

567
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 2: this playing out in front of you is exactly why

568
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 2: he has united these countries. And it really is on him. Now,

569
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 2: there are other things that lead to this point. I'm

570
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: not saying it's the only fact, but his tariff policy

571
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: has to already be deemed like in terms of American interests,

572
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: one of the most disastrous economic policies ever pursued, ever pursued,

573
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: certainly in modern American history. It has made our economy here.

574
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: We can already see the effects in certain goods prices

575
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: going up. You can see you can see the rate

576
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: of growth in the economy slowing. You can see more

577
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: and more consumer debt being taken on, like all sorts

578
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 2: of red flags flashing here in our economy because of

579
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 2: his economic policy. So we aren't benefiting quite the contrary.

580
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: And meanwhile, he has clarified for the rest of the world. Okay,

581
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: it's time that we get together and we move on

582
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: from this mess, because this is a disaster and we

583
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: can't count on these people. This guy's a psycho. This

584
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: country is hypocritical, They're insane. We've got to figure out

585
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: how to do our own thing over here and make

586
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: sure that we are protecting our own nations.

587
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: And it really does lay at the feet of Trump.

588
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's about Trump's ego. It's about a miss reading,

589
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: I think entirely of the way that geopolitics and all

590
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: of this works. It also is completely counter to many

591
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: of the things that we're talked about by Donald Trump

592
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: and all of the people who work for them. It's

593
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: not an exaggeration to say this is the exact opposite.

594
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: This is the Lindsay Graham course. You know, Oh, we

595
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: got to lever Harvis on five hundred percent tariff on

596
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: India because of the war in Ukraine. While we continue

597
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: to back up. You know, it's like it's as if

598
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: the Israel and Ukraine conflict are the sun, the moon

599
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: and the stars and everything just revolves around them, and

600
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: that this entire you know, part of the world is

601
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: just these secondary or tertiary characters in reality. Japan number

602
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: three trading partner in the world. You think that the

603
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: Japanese people are are happy about that trade deal and

604
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: all the bullshit that they went through, They're not. Okay,

605
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: you can go and read their press. Same with the

606
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: South Koreans. I mean, the South Koreans similarly are in

607
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 1: this weird limbo state where they're like, you know, they

608
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: used to be understood as a massively important US ally

609
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 1: basically just on the back burner. They pay them no attention.

610
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: When they do pay them attention, it's to hit them

611
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: with some tariffs or to get mad at them over

612
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: Samsung or any of the other companies that they make.

613
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: We're just playing. We are playing like Little League baseball,

614
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: and that is what you know. Again, I have nothing

615
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: but admiration. Maybe that's bad and it speaks to me,

616
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: But like this, that is that those are countries run

617
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: by actual statesmen, and yes, putin all of them, they

618
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: do terrible things. I'm not, you know, absolving them of

619
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: all of the bad. I wouldn't want to live in Russia,

620
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to live in India, and I definitely

621
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to live in China. But I have nothing

622
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: but admiration for the seriousness which they run their countries,

623
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: and we don't have any of that. I do not

624
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: have any of that. No, and that's the starkest and

625
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: the most depressing part, because you and I know for

626
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: the next three and a half year, probably the next

627
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: eight years, let's be honest, it's just we're locked in

628
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: and the Chinese Century it just seems more likely than

629
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: ever before.

630
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're run by a bunch of clownish, evil buffoons

631
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: who make some of the worst decisions of all time.

632
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: Very interesting story here, I am a little bit obsessed

633
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: with it. So Taylor Lorenz over at Wired Magazine really

634
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: breaking some significant news here about an incubator program funded

635
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: by a dem aligned dark money superpack called the sixteen

636
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: thirty Fund. So let's put her reporting up on the screen,

637
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 2: and I want to break down very specifically what she

638
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: reports out in this piece. So her headline here is

639
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: a dark money group is secretly funding high profile democratic influencers.

640
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 2: An initiative aimed at boosting democrats online offers influencers up

641
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: to eight thousand dollars a month to push the party line.

642
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: All they have.

643
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: To do is keep it secret and agree to restrictions

644
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: on their content. So the TLDR here is that this

645
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: incubator named Chorus was set up by Brian Tyler Cohen,

646
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: who you guys probably know is a big resistance creator

647
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: on YouTube, giant channel, four million subscribers, etc. And a

648
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: guy who used to be an aid for Johnny Armath,

649
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: who was a congressman from Kentucky. So they set up

650
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: this thing, and the way they fund it is by

651
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: taking money from this billionaire backed dark money super pac

652
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: called the sixteen thirty Fund. That fund has spent hundreds

653
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: of millions of dollars to back Democratic candidates and causes.

654
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: It's very influential, it's very well known. You can read

655
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: a bunch of reporting about it. But because it is

656
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: a dark money group, their donors are kept a secret. Okay,

657
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 2: So ninety plus Democratic Party aligned influencers were selected for

658
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: this program. They're paid anywhere from two hundred and fifty

659
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: dollars a month, which like, we all are really selling.

660
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 3: Out for the shape if you're on that plan, but.

661
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 2: We'll get back to that, all the way up to

662
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: eight thousand dollars a month. It has everybody from small creators.

663
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: I certainly had never heard of. Granted I'm not on

664
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 2: TikTok that much, so I'm not trying to like smirch

665
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: the level of their influence, but all the way up

666
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: to people like David Packman, who has a multimillion sub channel,

667
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: who has already been quite successful and has been around

668
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: for longer actually than we yah. Dave Pacman has been

669
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: in this game for a long time. So it's like

670
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: everybody from the small and the brand new, all the

671
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: way up to the David Pacman's of the world. So specifically,

672
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: Taylor was able to talk to people who were approached

673
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: about participating in this program, some of whom were put

674
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: off by the terms of the contract and said this

675
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: is not something that I can be a part of.

676
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: She was given access to some of the group chats

677
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: that were flying around between some of the people who

678
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: did end up in the cohort who were also expressing

679
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: concerns about some of the terms of the contract, And

680
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 2: she also apparently was able to get her hands on

681
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: the contract themselves and so here specifically what the contracts

682
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: that it says were viewed by Wired, what they indicated

683
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 2: in terms of restrictions on the way these individuals can

684
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: operate So, according to copies of the contract viewed by Wired,

685
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: creators in the program must funnel all bookings with lawmakers and.

686
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: Political leaders through Chorus.

687
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: Creators also have to loop Chorus in on any in

688
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: tendently organized engagement with government.

689
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 3: Officials or political leaders.

690
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 2: So one of the creators who was approached about participating

691
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: in Chorus said to Taylor, she said, quote, if I

692
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: want to work with another politician, I have to fully

693
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: collaborate with course. If I get Zoron and he wants

694
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: to do an interview with me, I don't want to

695
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: give that to them. So that was one of the concerns. Also,

696
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: it says creators in the program are not allowed to

697
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: use any funds or resources that they receive as part

698
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 2: of the program to make content that supports or opposes

699
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: any political candidate or campaign without express authorization from Chorus

700
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: in advance and in writing per the contract. So if

701
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: they want to support a candidate Graham Platner, let's say

702
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 2: in Maine, they have to get approval from Chorus before

703
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 2: they can say anything supportive of any sort of candidate

704
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 2: or campaign. In addition, the contracts reduced by Wired prohibit

705
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: standard partnership disclosures declaring that creators will not publicize their

706
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 2: relationship Course or tell others that they're members of the

707
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 2: program quote without Course's prior express consent. A screen chat

708
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: from a slideshow was shared with Wired following this article's

709
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 2: publication by Graham Wilson, a lawyer working with Courus, that

710
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: offers several talking points if a member of the go

711
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: court wanted to discuss Course publicly, so they're expressly saying

712
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 2: you can't talk about being in this program, and certainly

713
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: can't disclose the dark money funding of this program. And

714
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 2: they also forbid creators from disclosing the identity of any funder,

715
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 2: and give Course the ability to force creators to remove

716
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: or correct content based solely on the organization's discretion if

717
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: that content was made at a Course organized event. One

718
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: other piece that I thought was really noteworthy sogre is.

719
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: It also says you are not allowed to criticize any

720
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 2: of the other influencers who are part of the Course program. So,

721
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 2: for example, if you have a beef over David Pacman

722
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 2: either not saying anything about Gaza or in the early

723
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: days of the genocide he was actively defending Israel. If

724
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: you have a problem with that, and you're an influencer

725
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: in this cohort and you want to talk about it,

726
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 2: you are banned from doing that. So you have a

727
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: combination of a lot of restrictions on the way that

728
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: you operate having to run things through this course program.

729
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 3: You have the.

730
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 2: The forced secrecy around it that you're not allowed to

731
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: disclose course and you're certainly not allowed to disclose the

732
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: funding source of course. And then you also, on top

733
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: of that have these requirements that they check in that

734
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 2: they go to these daily messaging meetings to you know,

735
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 2: get the view of course. And we're going to show

736
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: you some of the responses from the creators themselves about

737
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: the revelation that they're part of this program, and you know,

738
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 2: they actually affirm that yes, much of this is in

739
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: fact true. They show relevant parts of the contract and

740
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 2: then you know, give reasons why it's not such a

741
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: big deal and it's not really a problem. But they

742
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 2: actually confirm Taylor's reporting here. So this seems pretty rock

743
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 2: solid at this point.

744
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so let's put that aside. I think the

745
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: question is about why is this important. I think it's

746
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: important not only for the con text of what you

747
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: laid out about specific issues. But it is an incentive

748
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: and media ecosystem which is so much worse than allegedly

749
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: with the dem and Republican alternative medias we're trying to

750
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: go after. Like, look, we can say a lot of

751
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: bad things about Jake Tapper, MSNBC, CNN, Fox News. They

752
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: do not get direct checks cut to them that specifically

753
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 1: say you can't criticize X, Y and Z. They are

754
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: actually less controlled in this particular way. And so that's

755
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: what I think I wanted to cover the story early

756
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: and I want people to grapple with that, is that

757
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: in this new ecosystem, just like in the original days

758
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 1: of the printing press, it's gone wild. The norms don't exist.

759
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: Everybody is a creator and a business person. They have

760
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: not had well established norms to try and create a

761
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: firewall a separation. Probably the most important is nobody is

762
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: thinking about the downstream consequences of that, because originally you're like, oh,

763
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, a couple thousand a month, great, I could

764
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: pay my bills. I can do this, I don't have

765
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: to have a second job and all that, but you

766
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: don't ask what comes next. And you know, two people

767
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: who've been in this industry now for a long time

768
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: and experienced much of the downside of what that type

769
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: of stuff look like. Now, to be clear, I've never

770
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: taken a single dollar from a Republican group or any

771
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: of that type of stuff in the same way, which

772
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: you know, again, I don't really know how you ever

773
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: thought it was cool, because even when I was absolutely broke,

774
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 1: I never would have signed some sort of contract like that.

775
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 1: But the point remains that I think most of them

776
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: didn't think about it, and now they're retreating to their

777
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: corners because for them they have to defend it at

778
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: this point. But really, you are either controlled, quasi controlled,

779
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: or at the very least you are not truly free

780
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: to say what you want. Now the mainstream is controlled

781
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: in a separate way, right as in Fox News, guys

782
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: can't criticize, criticize each other. They also know that if

783
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: they cover X, Y or Z, that's not going to

784
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: look so nice to Rupert Murdoch or to Lachlan who

785
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: are you know, rapidly pro Israel and pro Ukraine. So

786
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: there's all these separate you know, issue use and incentive

787
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: structures that come with them. So don't get me wrong,

788
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: that obviously exists to the mainstream media, and I still

789
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: hate them for a variety of reasons. But this is

790
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: really really bad. And it is bad because I think

791
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: that the Democrats, in particular, I know that there are

792
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: a lot of dams. They're energized, they're ready. You know,

793
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Trump health. Everybody wants to

794
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: be online, having fun and resisting. But here being part

795
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: of a machine and that machine is being controlled for

796
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: very specific purposes and ends would unite may not be

797
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: aware of. That's what I think is very important, right, And.

798
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: It would be one thing if this was disclosed.

799
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

800
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 2: But and what they say is, oh, well, here are

801
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: some videos where people did talk about being in course,

802
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 2: and here's the course website and it lists some of

803
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: the creators who were participating in the program. So there

804
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: was some disclosure. Was there disclosure around a dark money

805
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: super pac funding this? No, there was not, And there's

806
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 2: you know, so there's a reason why Taylor had to

807
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: do an investigative journalism peace in order to reveal the

808
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: details of this program. It expressly HiT's them in the

809
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: contract from disclosing their funders, specifically from disclosing their participation

810
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: in the program. And you know, in terms of like

811
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: the ethics of all of this, that is almost the

812
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: biggest red line here because listen, it's very complicated all

813
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 2: of the different business structures within quote unquote independent media.

814
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 2: Right most places are different from us. Most of them

815
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: will do ad reads, which means they're directly talking advertised.

816
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 2: It is actually much more direct relationship than like, for example,

817
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 2: when I was at MSNBC, there was a firewall between

818
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: the hosts and the you know, people who were selling ads.

819
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 2: You had no idea what was on during the commercial break.

820
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: That wasn't your big you know you had, You were

821
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 2: not paying attention to that that had no bearing on

822
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: your like day to day.

823
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: So you know, there's that, but at least that's upfront.

824
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 2: Everybody knows, I'm paid to read this ad for Casper

825
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: Mattresses or whatever the heck it is, you know, Zin's

826
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 2: or whatever thing that they're selling. So that's upfront, and

827
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: you know, frankly, those corporate interests are going to only

828
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: collide with your coverage in sort of certain specific instances.

829
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 2: Whereas if you are backed by this kind of group

830
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 2: where you're going to daily messaging check ins, you're having

831
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 2: to run by them. You're supposed to run by them

832
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 2: every government official that you interview, and you have other

833
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 2: restrictions on your content, and they have a specific they

834
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 2: mentioned in one of these contracts that actually in the

835
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 2: response video, one of the one of the members of

836
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: the cohort put up a part of the contract and.

837
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 3: Referred to COURS as policy platform.

838
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 2: So like, what is that you know and are you

839
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: having to buy into a certain set of policies. I'm

840
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: going to guarantee you that based on the lack of

841
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 2: coverage of Gaza by Brian Tyler Cohen and sometimes at

842
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: times the incredibly terrible coverage of David Packman, two the

843
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: biggest creators that are associated with this, I'm going to bet

844
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: that you know the fact that, for example, Gaza has

845
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 2: been officially deemed a genocide by all of the world's

846
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: genocide scholars. I'm gonna bet that's not part of the

847
00:41:58,040 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: policy platform. I'm going to bet that's not part of

848
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 2: the daily messaging guidance. And I want to be clear

849
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: because some of the way this has been portrayed, especially

850
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 2: in the rebuttals, has been very caricaturish. We're not saying

851
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: that they're being told you're going to do a video

852
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: on this, and if you don't, you're kicked out of

853
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 2: the program. And here's your talking points. So you're going

854
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 2: to say these freaking talking points are You're out. It

855
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: doesn't work like that. It works through several mechanisms. First

856
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 2: of all, the choice of who participates. I guarantee you

857
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 2: many of these people they genuinely their authentic view is

858
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 2: that the Democratic Party is like, you know, vote blue.

859
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 2: No matter who, they are vastly superior. The focus should

860
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: all be on Trump like for many, if not all,

861
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 2: of them, that is their genuine view. So number one

862
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: is the choice of who you even include in the cohort.

863
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 2: But then there's all these sort of like human pressures

864
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: and incentives. You see who's in the in group with

865
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 2: you, You see the sort of topics that are being pushed.

866
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 2: You know where the sensitivity are. And so if you're

867
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: weighing covering let's say, you know, the Gaza genocide versus

868
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: another topic that is also very important, that isn't going

869
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: to create some sort of discomfort with the you know,

870
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: with the program that you're in that you're receiving monthly

871
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 2: cash from. Maybe you're going to choose the one that's

872
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: not going to sort of not going to be uncomfortable

873
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 2: for the group, not going to be uncomfortable for your

874
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 2: future potential prospects of staying in this program. And is

875
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 2: you get down the line, if these influencers become financially

876
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 2: dependent on getting this monthly stipend, then you have a

877
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: lot of control over them. So that's the way this thing,

878
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: these things work. It's far more subtle than just like

879
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 2: you're getting your talking points and you're going to stick

880
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: to them, and you're not going to do videos on this,

881
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: and you are going to do videos on that. It

882
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 2: happens in a much more subtle way. And I saw,

883
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: you know, I've told this story before, you know, just

884
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 2: to give an example from my own personal life and

885
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: why like the lessons we've had to learn through our

886
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 2: careers and how we came to the business model that

887
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: we have. When I was at MSM, this was back

888
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, before Hillary actually I think it was

889
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, before Hillary officially got in the race for president.

890
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: I did a monologue that was like, don't run, Please,

891
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: don't run, because you are not the person for the moment.

892
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 2: I talked about her, you know, her speeches to Banks,

893
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: I said, this is not the populis champion we need.

894
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: It was very critical at a time when nobody on

895
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: the Democratics I had, nobody on MSNBC was being.

896
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 3: Critical of Hillary. They let me do it.

897
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 2: But after the fact I was informed that any future

898
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 2: commentary I did on Hillary Clinton had to be run

899
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 2: by the president of the network. Okay, that is not

900
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 2: a normal thing. Message was sent to me that this

901
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: was not appreciated and in the future I needed to

902
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 2: make sure I run it up the flapole. So can

903
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 2: I say for certain that that didn't impact my coverage

904
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: going forward, that that didn't make it so that if

905
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 2: I was weighing two different monologue topics, I was like, well,

906
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: I could do this one on Hillary again, or I

907
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: could do this other topic that I didn't take the

908
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 2: easy way on. Say well, they're both important, so let

909
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: me do this one so I don't have to actually

910
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: get all of my words approved by the president of

911
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 2: the networ or can piss off everybody involved this day.

912
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: That's the way these things work, through these sut of

913
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 2: subtle influences and pressures that every human is subject to.

914
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 2: And so I think a lot of these individuals, they

915
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: feel like, well, we're not corrupt. You know, we genuinely

916
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: believe in the Democratic Party, and you know, we've got

917
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: to fight fire with fire. We got to get in

918
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: there and we got to fight against Trump, but we

919
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 2: got to build up this creator ecosystem. Like I think

920
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: that's the way they're thinking about it, without realizing the

921
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: subtle way that your coverage can be shaped and influenced

922
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: the minute that you start taking cash, and especially when

923
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 2: you have these sorts of very specific restrictions on the

924
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: way you're supposed to go about your content creation and

925
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 2: you're required to go to a daily messaging check in

926
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 2: every single day. Of course, that's going to impact the

927
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: way that you approach things, not because you're like inherently corrupt,

928
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 2: because you're a human being and we are all subject

929
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 2: to those sorts of incentives and pressures, whether we even

930
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 2: realize it or not.

931
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: I will just quote the great Nome Chomsky quote, the

932
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: smart way to keep people passive and obedient, it's just

933
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: strict limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very

934
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: lively debate within that spectrum, even encourage the more critical

935
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: and dissonant views. That gives people the sense that there's

936
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: free thinking going on while all the time the presuppositions

937
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: of the system are reinforced by the limits put upon

938
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: the range of the debate. And then similarly, when he

939
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 1: was asked in that famous BBC interview about whether people

940
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: self censor, he says, I don't say you're self censoring.

941
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure you believe everything that you're saying. But what

942
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: I'm saying is if you believe something different, you wouldn't

943
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: be sitting where you're sitting. That's the question. Yeah, around,

944
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: of course. So like you said, it's not that these

945
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: people are and let's even think about the whole Gaza thing.

946
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 1: You think they're doing it because they believe it. I don't.

947
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, Dave. I mean, you know, to talk

948
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: to David one time. I have no hate for the

949
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: guy Brian. You know, we interviewed him here. He seems nice.

950
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: I don't think that they are actively covering anything up.

951
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: You know what it is. It's division for Democrats, right,

952
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: that's it. They're like, well, we can't divide the Democratic Party.

953
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 2: And at the beginning of the genocide, Phone actively backed

954
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: up as right.

955
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: But BTC, all right, I don't I think for him.

956
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: He's like, I don't want to cause problems for Alyssa's luckin.

957
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to cause problems for Gavin Newsom. We

958
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: need to train one hundred percent of our fire on

959
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: the right. On the right, by the way, the right

960
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,919
Speaker 1: does this all the time too, right, although it's more

961
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 1: complicated more recently, they are willing to go after people

962
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: on the issues that they care about immigration in particular,

963
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: and Thomas Massey right, they'll go single him out, or

964
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: at least some people have. I'm trying to think more establishments,

965
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: but Mitch McConnell and others, they'll get their fire whenever

966
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: they quote go against the base, and Republican creators generally

967
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 1: are more likely to be able to do that. The Democrats, though,

968
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: they all seem to have internalized this thing about Kamala

969
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: where protesters and people who spoke out against Kamala and

970
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 1: Biden were nothing but trouble and that that's the reason

971
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: that she lost. Folks, It's just not true. It's like

972
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: that is What they don't get is that, you know,

973
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: Iron Sharpen's Iron going through a deeply competitive, brutal primary

974
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: does not weaken the candidate. It actually makes them stronger.

975
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 1: It means that you definitively won the debate. Kamala number one,

976
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: literally from the primary to her coronation at the Democratic Party.

977
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: Those Gaza people, by the way, get mad at them

978
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: all you want. They voted in good faith for Donald

979
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: Trump or Jill Stein in the state of Michigan, and

980
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: they were the exact margin of victory. Now maybe it

981
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 1: wouldn't have mattered in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin. I know for

982
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: a fact one hundred percent, it mattered in the state

983
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 1: of Michigan. So that's on you. That's not on anybody else.

984
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: That's not on some protester or anybody else. And that's

985
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: where their theory of politics is just dead wrong. I mean,

986
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: think about twenty sixteen. For Trump, it was savage and

987
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: he won. And not only that he won the election.

988
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: Well Obama, Hillary, Yeah, that was true. I mean, the

989
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: juggernauts went at each other. Obama got to blow out

990
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: victory like.

991
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 3: That, and he was definitely straight.

992
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 2: If you watch him the beginning of those debates to

993
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 2: the end, he will strengthened so much by but even

994
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 2: put aside, like the Gaza piece and all of that,

995
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 2: probably the worst mistake that Democrats made.

996
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 3: Political tactical mistake was circling.

997
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: The wagons around by and keeping out any sort of

998
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: actual primary process and descent where his weakness could have

999
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: been exposed earlier. You could have ended up with a

1000
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: much stronger candidate who actually had one a democratic process

1001
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 2: and had some sort of democratic mandate behind them. By

1002
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 2: circling the wagons and keeping all the descent out, they

1003
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: led themselves down this disastrous path where them you have

1004
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: the debate, and we all with the rest of you

1005
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: know how that history unfolds. So you know, I think

1006
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 2: the lesson that Democrats should just shut their mouths and

1007
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: not ever criticize anything that any Democrat has ever done.

1008
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 2: I think that that lesson has I think that has

1009
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 2: been one of the single most devastating ideas for the

1010
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: Democratic Party if you just care about Democrats winning, I

1011
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 2: think that has been an utter and complete disaster on

1012
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 2: the piece around the future of the Democratic Party too.

1013
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: For me, there's a battle right now. And this is

1014
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: why I think that even though you know it's whatever,

1015
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: it's one dark money group, let's all be really clear.

1016
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: There's tons of dark money flowing through an ependome. There's

1017
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: tons on the right Okay, this is not something that's unique.

1018
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 2: By the way, a lot of these creators spoke out

1019
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 2: against the Tenant media scandal when that happened, which we

1020
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: did to by the way, because it was gross and

1021
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 2: it was corrupt. But you know, they can't see the

1022
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: problem when it is on their side. But to me,

1023
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 2: you know, there's a battle for the future of the

1024
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: Democratic Party right now. And I don't want to be

1025
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,240
Speaker 2: overly simplistic about it, but it really is a battle

1026
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: between is this going to be a party that's run

1027
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 2: by billionaires or run by the grassroots?

1028
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 3: Is that you know?

1029
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: Is it going to be Zoron or is it going

1030
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 2: to be Kamala Harris. Is it going to be Gavin

1031
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 2: Newsome or is it going to be someone like a

1032
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 2: grand planner who has a true like grassroots behind him.

1033
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 2: That's the battle of the Democratic Party right now. And

1034
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 2: we saw through the Kamala Harris campaign when she started

1035
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: relying on you know, the mark Cubans of the world

1036
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 2: and this billionaire backed and approved strategy, that's when she

1037
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: truly sort of nicks it. That's when she truly destroyed

1038
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 2: her campaign and made it impossible to win. So I

1039
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 2: also see this as a real struggle, because if you're

1040
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: taking this dark money from a billionaire back to group,

1041
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 2: you are laying your chips down on the side. Basically,

1042
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 2: we're going to keep doing the same thing we did

1043
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: in the past. And let me tell you something, if

1044
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: you consider yourself left of center in any way, you

1045
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 2: are not going to win a contest of who has

1046
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: more billionaires and for whom which party is more comfortable

1047
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 2: for those billionaires.

1048
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 3: You have to play a different game.

1049
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 2: And that's why I think that this is really important

1050
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: and very symbolic of the fights that are going on,

1051
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 2: the struggles that are going on within the Democratic Party,

1052
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: and of course Gaza ties in as well, because that's

1053
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: an area where you have a lot of organized money

1054
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: on the side if we're going to be with Israel

1055
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: no matter what.

1056
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 3: And so it's not the case that none of.

1057
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 2: These influencers in this cohort have said anything about Gaza.

1058
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: It's not been a complete prohibition, but if you look

1059
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 2: at their body of work, there has been notably less

1060
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 2: less focus on God than among people who are you know,

1061
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 2: much more independent, who really are out there, you know,

1062
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 2: saying what they think about what's going.

1063
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 3: On in the world right now.

1064
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: Let me go ahead and play for you guys, Brian

1065
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 2: a couple of the responses here. Let me go ahead

1066
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 2: and start with a portion of Brian Tyler Cohen's response,

1067
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 2: which I also have to say, I found these responses

1068
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: to honestly be kind of shocking in how dishonest they were,

1069
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 2: how frankly like Trumpian they were in their character. So

1070
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and take a listen to Brian Tyler Cohen,

1071
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 2: who again is one of the co founders of course,

1072
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: so he is actually like at the head of this thing.

1073
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 6: So here's what Chorus is. It is a scholarship program

1074
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 6: to teach creators how to grow their accounts, foster engagement,

1075
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 6: launch their own shows, and become profitable on their own.

1076
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 6: It's an incubator program to build the pro democracy ecosystem.

1077
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 6: Influencers and creators have never been more important when it

1078
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 6: comes to how Americans are consuming their news. The right

1079
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 6: has been doing this for years, and the left needs

1080
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 6: to catch up. That's why we're doing this with Chorus.

1081
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 6: So let's talk about what Courus is and what it's not.

1082
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 6: Chorus does not pay creators for content, does not tell

1083
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 6: them what to say, It does not control who they

1084
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 6: talk to or work with, And there is absolutely nothing

1085
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 6: in the contract that could even be reasonably interpreted to

1086
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 6: say that we do period full stop. I don't know

1087
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 6: a single creator who would willfully sign up for a

1088
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 6: program that would tell them what they can or can't say.

1089
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 6: That's not what this program is. We pay people to

1090
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 6: show up to workshops and technical trainings to optimize their

1091
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 6: content online. For example, we've got trainings on how to

1092
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,720
Speaker 6: package content for YouTube, trainings on how to optimize audience

1093
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,399
Speaker 6: retention for Instagram, and TikTok, trainings on how to form

1094
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 6: an LLC. There is the implication in the article that

1095
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,240
Speaker 6: this is some arm of the DNC or the Democratic Party.

1096
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 6: We have literally nothing to do with the DNC. I

1097
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 6: spend zero minutes of my day thinking about the DNC.

1098
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 6: The creators do not toe any party line.

1099
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: How could we.

1100
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 6: There isn't a party line. Creators are absolutely allowed to

1101
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 6: speak out against the dea Democrats, and in fact plenty do,

1102
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 6: and frankly, course creators should and do criticize Democrats when

1103
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 6: they suck, and quite often they do suck. Sixteen thirty

1104
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 6: Fund is our fiscal sponsor, one of the largest documented

1105
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 6: donors to sixteen thirty fund is the same person funding

1106
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 6: a Meteor's Reporters and Residence program, which Taylor Lorenz herself

1107
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 6: is a part of. And guess what her monthly stipend

1108
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 6: is eight thousand dollars per month. So she's criticizing an

1109
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,760
Speaker 6: entity that is funded by someone that she is currently

1110
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 6: taking money from. I guess it's okay when Taylor Lorenz

1111
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 6: gets paid, but no one else. There are people like

1112
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 6: Taylor Lorenz who are desperate to tear the left apart,

1113
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 6: and in fact, it becomes clear who her efforts help

1114
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 6: when you hear stuff like this.

1115
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 7: Genuinely, I kind of like Taylor Lorenz because I know

1116
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 7: that she actually believes what she says.

1117
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying.

1118
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 6: So yeah, I generally don't align myself with friends of

1119
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 6: Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens.

1120
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 2: Calling Taylor Lorenz a friend of Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens.

1121
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 3: Is wild wild. And he opens up this thing.

1122
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 2: It was kind of long, so we like, you know,

1123
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 2: clipped it up and didn't play the whole thing and

1124
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: wanted to give you the pieces where he's doing his

1125
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 2: best defense whatever to be fair to him. But he

1126
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 2: opens up the whole thing by being like, at the

1127
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 2: risk of giving more attention to an Internet troll, you

1128
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 2: can say a lot of things about Taylor Lorenz, but

1129
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 2: this is a fully reported piece in Wired magazine. He

1130
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 2: also spends a lot of time doing like, well, this

1131
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 2: person online said this thing about it, which is totally untrue,

1132
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, but you don't actually deal with

1133
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: the very specific claims that she makes in her report

1134
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 2: about the requirement of non disclosure, about the fact that

1135
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: they're required contractually required to run all of the guests

1136
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 2: that they book, all of the government official guests that

1137
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 2: they booked through you guys in this like approved channel

1138
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 2: that you have to go to daily messaging meetings.

1139
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 3: You don't deal with any of that.

1140
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 2: Instead, you you know, shift the focus to these internet

1141
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 2: claims that were untrue rather than the actual reported out pieces.

1142
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 2: I want to deal with the piece that he says

1143
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 2: here about Pierre A. Midyar, which I think is important

1144
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 2: and I listen, I think it's it would be fair to,

1145
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: you know, question whether Taylor should be taking money from

1146
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 2: Pierre Ohmadyar. You know that he has this reporter in

1147
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 2: residence training. But here's what's different she was public about that,

1148
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 2: and we know who's funding her, and it's you know,

1149
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 2: it's on the website and she announced it. That is

1150
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 2: very different than a program that you're not allowed to

1151
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 2: say you're part of, and you're not allowed to disclose

1152
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 2: the funders, and.

1153
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 3: You're supposed to keep it secret. And by the way, we.

1154
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 2: Still don't know who all is funding the sixteen thirty fund.

1155
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 2: So I think it's fair there could be criticism of

1156
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 2: Taylor there too, but to posture like these are the

1157
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: exact same things, that is just fundamentally dishonest. And he's

1158
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 2: smart enough to know that.

1159
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: Well, look, people have there's a four year track record

1160
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 1: here of criticizing Taylor. I read the story. I don't

1161
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: take her word for it, you know. I read the story.

1162
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: I make sure that it's sourced, and then I see

1163
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: the response it seems to hold up. I think that's

1164
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: really what it's all about. So this isn't about Taylor

1165
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: Lorenz and no great big fan or any of that

1166
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 1: over here. I do think it was really dishonest to

1167
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: be like, well, Candace says, you know that Candace and

1168
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: Tuckers say that Taylor believes what I actually agree with

1169
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,439
Speaker 1: that is one thing. I mean, I don't like most

1170
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: of what Taylor believes, but I do think she actually

1171
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: yeh know, we could talk about that. It's kind of

1172
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,439
Speaker 1: a different story. But the question here, and I think

1173
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,919
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, is this ponderous while we're spending

1174
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: so much time A lot of you guys are watching

1175
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: this stuff on the internet, and not enough people talk

1176
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: about the behind the scenes. So what you just talked

1177
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: about with MSNBC talked a lot about here our experience

1178
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: at the Hill, multiple phone calls, problems with coverage because

1179
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: they could affect advertising, and it's not again, it's not

1180
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: in the stuff that people would think, like people would

1181
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,919
Speaker 1: think it's Gazar's sometimes, you know, if it's controversy, it's

1182
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: really about business. And like that's the stuff that people

1183
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: don't get, you know, criticizing or creating problems for potential

1184
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: events with Bank of America or Pharma or TikTok Chinese

1185
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: advertising where the actual dollars hit the bank. We were

1186
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: speculating with our staff, like what's the stuff that we

1187
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: cover that would be a problem. I'll give you a

1188
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: perfect example. Gambling. The gambling stuff would be a real issue.

1189
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: If you and I were advertising one hundred percent focus

1190
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: a serious problem because back in twenty twenty one wouldn't

1191
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: tho much about it. Maybe, oh, DraftKings, you know, fandled

1192
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: are offering googles of money, right or Polymarket like some

1193
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: people out there. By the way, poly Market is now

1194
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: getting into sports betting, as you covered I think previously, Robinhood.

1195
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: Any of the so financial services credit cards? How much

1196
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: do I talk about users credit card rates and stuff

1197
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: like that on the show. That's not happening? If you're

1198
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: taking American Express, American Express, the blue Chips, you know brand,

1199
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: great brand? Who has anything bad to say about it?

1200
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: I do? Well, that would be an issue I could

1201
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: go on forever. Man Like in terms of DTC that

1202
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: we talked about all of these DTC companies Betterhelp I

1203
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: gave that one. How could you be against therapy? James Lee,

1204
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: who does segments for US, did a segment about Better

1205
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 1: Help that's not happening. If you have a one point

1206
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: five million dollars a year contract with Better Help, you

1207
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: would probably sign up for it. And you think it's therapy.

1208
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: What's so bad about it? Well, maybe something. There's so

1209
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: many of the examples, like Yes, cash were mattresses and

1210
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 1: all that stuff probably wouldn't be an issue, but you

1211
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: never know, and that's why we don't do it and

1212
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: have left and I'm not exaggerating millions of dollars on

1213
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: the table and have created instead an alternative funding structure

1214
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: which enables us to just do what we want to do.

1215
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: But not enough people have thought about that, and I

1216
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: do broadly. I do think that the reason why these

1217
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: people can't escape criticism is not disclosing who you're getting

1218
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: paid for. Is the abs scum of the earth behavior

1219
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: when you are doing public media consumption for other people,

1220
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: because they have to know. One of the things again

1221
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: that the mainstream media in them is in ways they're

1222
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 1: more transparent who they could take their money from their

1223
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: public companies. They publish their financials. I know exactly who

1224
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: CNN gets this money from. And also they'll tell you

1225
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: during the ad breaks presented to you by fies, presented

1226
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,479
Speaker 1: to you by American Express or any of these other people.

1227
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: And that has all kinds of pernicious downstream EFE in

1228
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: a Nome Chomsky sense, but it's very different than actually

1229
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: getting a direct check wired to you by your bank account.

1230
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: Mainstream media people are just w two employees. They get

1231
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: cut a check, which you know, they don't really know

1232
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: all the all the saws gets made. Yeah, so that's

1233
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: why this is honestly kind of worse.

1234
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 2: It absolutely is, It absolutely is, and it is also

1235
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 2: so like you can think about, first of all, we

1236
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 2: need to come up with an agreed upon definition of

1237
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 2: who gets to call themselves independent media, because if you're

1238
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: taking dark money from a party aligned superpack, sorry, you're

1239
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 2: not independent media. I mean you're just like you can

1240
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 2: call yourself something else, but it ain't that the next level,

1241
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 2: so that's like kind of like the worst level is

1242
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 2: you're taking secret party aligned money from billionaires that and

1243
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 2: you know, and you're contractually obligated to not disclose. That

1244
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 2: is the worst level of you know, potential compromise puts

1245
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 2: you the furthest from truly being able to call yourself

1246
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 2: independent media.

1247
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: You know.

1248
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: The next tier is like, Okay, it's funding from these

1249
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 2: various corporate entities, but it's disclosed. You're doing the ad

1250
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 2: read right, it's up front. That's another level. You're you know,

1251
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 2: you're getting sponsorships from this company or that company, and

1252
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 2: you're disclosing it. You know, I don't put take any

1253
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 2: of these decisions like lightly, because we're really fortunate we

1254
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 2: were able to build a business. You know, you guys

1255
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 2: signed up right away. We're able to fund it really quickly.

1256
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 2: You know, we we were we stepped into the breach,

1257
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 2: and you guys were there for us. And I know

1258
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: that that's not going to be the case forever because

1259
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 2: Soger and I were already established at the Hill, and

1260
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 2: we had the benefit of establishing ourselves at the Hill

1261
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 2: when somebody else was paying the overhead before we went

1262
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: out on our own. So I don't really like, I

1263
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 2: don't judge people who are making somewhat different choices than

1264
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 2: what we are making, but I think transparency has to

1265
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 2: be at the core of what you're doing. At the

1266
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 2: very least, if you're not in a position to say, listen,

1267
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 2: we're not going to talk to any advertisers at all,

1268
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 2: which is the position that we have taken to keep

1269
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 2: from having to ask ourselves questions about, well, what about

1270
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 2: this sponsor versus that sponsor?

1271
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 3: Is this ethical?

1272
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: Whatever?

1273
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 2: Is somebody going to think that we're not covering the

1274
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 2: story because we're taking money from this place We've just

1275
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 2: decided we're putting all of that off the table if

1276
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 2: you aren't in the position to make that choice. I

1277
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 2: have some sympathy for that. It's just you have to

1278
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 2: be transparent, and if you're not, you cannot call yourself

1279
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 2: independent media. Like I hope that we can all agree

1280
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 2: that that's the case. And that's if you're on the left,

1281
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 2: if you're on the right. And maybe it's unfair, but

1282
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 2: I do think that the left should hold themselves to

1283
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 2: a higher standard because we are supposed to be the

1284
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 2: people who oppose billionaire influence, who want campaign finance reform,

1285
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 2: who want to represent public interests and not have all

1286
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 2: of this nefarious dark money that is controlling so much

1287
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 2: of our politics. So yes, that is your obligation, if

1288
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 2: you're going to call yourself someone who is on the left,

1289
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 2: is to be more pure than the the Timpools or

1290
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 2: whoever taken the tenant media whatever cash they can grab,

1291
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 2: because frankly, that's more consistent with their idea. If you're

1292
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro, you know, and your standard is you can

1293
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 2: serve and you don't think there's anything wrong with billionaires

1294
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 2: and billionaire influence and politics and whatever, that is actually

1295
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: more consistent with your ideology. So I have scorn for

1296
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 2: those funding models as well, but I do think if

1297
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: you're gonna hold yourself out as being on the left,

1298
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 2: you do have to meet a higher bar and a

1299
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 2: higher standard. And as I said before, you're not gonna

1300
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 2: win playing the game of who can get more billionaire dollars.

1301
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 2: You're not gonna win that, and you are certainly not

1302
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 2: gonna win a movement that delivers for working class people.

1303
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 2: If you are relying on billionaire funding to get there,

1304
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 2: not gonna happen. So that's why I think this is

1305
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 2: so important. I want to play a little bit of

1306
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 2: There's at least one person in here who is she's

1307
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 2: a TikToker. She has been, you know, critical on Gaza.

1308
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 2: She's been critical of Andrew Cuomo, of Corey Booker, so

1309
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 2: she's gone after Democrats. And she put together her response.

1310
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 2: She's a member, of course, she's in the chorus, cohort

1311
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 2: or incubator as well. She put together part of her response,

1312
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 2: and it was amusing to me because she put up

1313
01:03:55,800 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 2: parts of the contract that she claimed were debunking what

1314
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 2: Taylor was saying in the article, but actually just fully

1315
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: confirmed what Taylor had reported out. And then she does

1316
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 2: the thing that I found so incredibly gross. And there

1317
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: have been other instances of this in the defense of courus,

1318
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 2: where they're once again using identity politics to protect, you know,

1319
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: to sort of rebut these claims of you know, potential

1320
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 2: like corruption and being compromised by this dark money. So

1321
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 2: let me go ahead and play this B five. Let

1322
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:29,479
Speaker 2: me go ahead and play a little bit of those.

1323
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 7: In the contract I signed, there is some language that says, hey, please, like,

1324
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 7: before you make a public statement about what courses, just

1325
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 7: check with us. The reason for that is that, as

1326
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 7: the article states, there's over ninety influencers in the program,

1327
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 7: many of whom have very small accounts and joined the

1328
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 7: program to get like mentorship and happened to be immigrants

1329
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 7: or trans in a red state right and like already

1330
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 7: happened to be kind of an extra danger right now.

1331
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 7: And so the goal with the like, please check with

1332
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,439
Speaker 7: us clause is to make sure that small creators who

1333
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 7: already had targets on their back weren't accidentally like featured

1334
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 7: on a huge page and then suddenly had an onslought

1335
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 7: of threats from the right ors has never been kept.

1336
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 7: Some of the fairy secret Right people have been talking

1337
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 7: about it. It was more just, hey, this is already

1338
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 7: an unsafe job for some people. Check with us in

1339
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 7: advance so you don't accidentally like add to someone's on safety.

1340
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 3: That doesn't make any sense. Okay.

1341
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 2: She's literally saying that they are keeping their dark money

1342
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 2: funding secret in order to protect trans creators in red states.

1343
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 3: That is her argument. That makes zero sense.

1344
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 2: Okay, Now maybe it would make sense to say, hey,

1345
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 2: don't talk about the other people who are in the cohort,

1346
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 2: but for you yourself, like, how is it protecting a trans

1347
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 2: creator or an immigrant in a red state for you

1348
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 2: to not talk about your dark money? Funny, I'm having serious,

1349
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 2: Hillary twenty sixteen. Yes, identity politics weaponis against the left

1350
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 2: flashbacks with all of this, there were other allegations that

1351
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 2: Taylor was like anti black woman for publishing this, when

1352
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 2: they're all, I mean, I'm sure there are black women

1353
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 2: in the.

1354
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 3: Color there's this lady's appears to be white, Like, there's

1355
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 3: all kinds of people. It's just it reminded me of

1356
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 3: why it.

1357
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 2: Became such a vociferous critic of this type of ideas

1358
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 2: of deep politics, because you see the way it is

1359
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 2: being weaponized here when you genuinely have these communities that

1360
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 2: are under threat, and they're cynically using this to protect

1361
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 2: their dark money funding source.

1362
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 3: That is disgusting.

1363
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 2: And one more thing I'll say about these responses is, again,

1364
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 2: if you are on the left, look, I get that

1365
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 2: there are I think the best case you can make

1366
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 2: for them is basically like, look, the right is doing

1367
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 2: this and we just got it. We got to throw

1368
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 2: on through. We're dealing with fascism. We've got to throw

1369
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 2: off the playbook. And I get it's not ideal, but

1370
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 2: we got to fight against fascism in whatever way we can,

1371
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 2: and so that's why we're taking the money. None of

1372
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 2: them even really acknowledge that there's an ethical question here,

1373
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 2: and that to me is a real bread But how

1374
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 2: can you be call yourself on the left and you're

1375
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 2: not even contemplating the ethical dilemmas that are involved here

1376
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 2: and explaining, well, I get why it's a problem. Maybe

1377
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 2: in another time, but here's why I came down on

1378
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 2: the side. No, it just was like all out attacking

1379
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 2: Taylor Lorenzo's credibility, throwing up she's friends with Candice Owens,

1380
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 2: this very aggressive response, there's nothing wrong, we celebrate what

1381
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 2: we're doing. We did nothing wrong. There was no moral

1382
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,479
Speaker 2: ethical dilemma here. We do it again ten times over.

1383
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 2: And I find that to be a real red flag

1384
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 2: that there wasn't even a willingness to grapple with the

1385
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 2: clear ethical issues that are involved in taking this type

1386
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 2: of secret dark money totally.

1387
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 1: And I know you're looking at for the left thing,

1388
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: but I actually think this is much bigger than you

1389
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 1: may even realize, because this is all industry for all

1390
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: quote unquote independent. If you look in the world of sports,

1391
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: gambling runs sports. Now, I listen to a really interesting

1392
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: critique of sports journalism which is actually very similar to

1393
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 1: where we are right now. It's not only that gambling

1394
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: sponsors all of the podcasts, it's also that the people

1395
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 1: who succeed and the most famous sports journalists are basically

1396
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: people who tweet whether someone has signed a contract or not,

1397
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:58,040
Speaker 1: and they just get the first scoop. In terms of

1398
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: people who actually uncover information that makes people in power

1399
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 1: like very uncomfortable, they are very few and far between.

1400
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 1: What is basically being consolidated is that industry and like

1401
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: money and influence, is running the general ecosystem to make

1402
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 1: sure that things are positive in almost all cultural areas,

1403
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 1: from sports to I mean, here's politics, that's number one.

1404
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 1: Finance is another one, by the way, like some of

1405
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 1: the biggest finance podcast all in is literally one of

1406
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: the biggest finance podcasts. I mean, think about that. What

1407
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:31,840
Speaker 1: Chamath has like like complex of interest coming out of

1408
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: his eyeballs, Like it's like every single one of these

1409
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:39,600
Speaker 1: is ridiculous or Bloomberg or any of these places. I

1410
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 1: mean it was like it says in the name Bloomberg,

1411
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: you think you don't you think you're getting like completely

1412
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: unfetched CNBC. I think this is actually a funding model

1413
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 1: question for quote unquote independent media, where when they're rolled

1414
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 1: up basically into the ecosystem, I think they broadly become

1415
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 1: more corrupt than a lot of the mainstream media, and

1416
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 1: trying to make yourself like a separate part of out

1417
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,759
Speaker 1: of that is just very very few and far between.

1418
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 1: The money is hard to say no too, all right.

1419
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: I mean I'll lay it out for you, and that's

1420
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:08,759
Speaker 1: just our show. Think about you know, even the biggest shows.

1421
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 1: That's probably tens of millions of dollars. And so for

1422
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 1: people to say no to that, you got to have

1423
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 1: some real stomach to actually be able to do it

1424
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:18,600
Speaker 1: or bet on yourself in a different way and be

1425
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: true to some different values. So yeah, I think that's

1426
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 1: why it's important, because that's a view into how it

1427
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: works for everything. I really do think it's everything.

1428
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I just got to say for the people

1429
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:29,560
Speaker 2: who sold out for this ship for two hundred and

1430
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 2: fifty dollars a month, like, no, that's what are you

1431
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 2: doing with your life?

1432
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 1: That's actually if.

1433
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:35,879
Speaker 2: You're not in the eight thousand dollars a month cohort.

1434
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 2: I really don't like the two hundred and fifty dollars

1435
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 2: a month.

1436
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 3: People like, what is that?

1437
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: It wasn't Pat? Correct me if I'm wrong. Patman was

1438
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: taking eight thousand a month? Is that true?

1439
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 2: That's the assumption because that's the highest band that you

1440
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 2: can be two millies millions.

1441
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the thing.

1442
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: Is just some back of the math math on the

1443
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 1: YouTube revenue, right, and we do.

1444
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 2: That's what I want people to understand too, is like

1445
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 2: we have left There's no doubt we've left millions on

1446
01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 2: the tape by not doing aurae. There's no doubt about it.

1447
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:02,480
Speaker 2: But guess what, guys, we're doing fine. We are doing fine,

1448
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 2: Like we are able to like have a good life.

1449
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 2: We pay a paper well, you know, when they answer

1450
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 2: a raise, we're like giving them more of that. We're

1451
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 2: doing you know, we're doing just fine over here. We're

1452
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 2: able to build this new set all of that, so

1453
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 2: it doesn't require selling out to some dark money superpack

1454
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 2: to be able to make it.

1455
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 3: And again, look, I get it.

1456
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 2: Sager and I were both established before we had the

1457
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:25,640
Speaker 2: Hill all of that, so we did have some advantages.

1458
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to deny that, but.

1459
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 3: You know Kyle didn't and he's he's doing good too. Right,

1460
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 3: it's you.

1461
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 2: Don't have to take this money, and if there is money,

1462
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 2: you have to disclose it. That's my that's really to me.

1463
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 2: The most key piece is Soger and I. As much

1464
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 2: as we've set our business up to insulate ourselves from

1465
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 2: any sort of corporate or political pressures, we still are

1466
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 2: human beings that are going to run into biases. Sager

1467
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 2: is friends with Jadie Vance, right, I'm friends with Kyle,

1468
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to be criticizing him.

1469
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 3: You know, he's my husband.

1470
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,880
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna be criticizing him as another creator if

1471
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 2: he does something you disagree with. But when people know

1472
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 2: these instances, people know that worst front about it. And

1473
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 2: that's the thing is, Look, we're all human beings. None

1474
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 2: of us are going to be able to exist in

1475
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 2: the world fully and completely free of bias. But when

1476
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 2: you run into something that is a clear conflict of

1477
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 2: interest and clear bias, or there is money that is

1478
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:24,799
Speaker 2: being paid to you that could potentially impact your views

1479
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 2: and your coverage, you have to disclose it. That to

1480
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 2: me is like the most central piece, and then you

1481
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 2: know other decisions that are made around that. I think

1482
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 2: there are better and worse decisions that can be made there.

1483
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 2: But if you aren't being upfront about where your funding

1484
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 2: is coming from, I think that is I think that

1485
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 2: is a real mistake, and I think it's a real

1486
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 2: ethical redline.

1487
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 1: You know, by the way, it's not just you know,

1488
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 1: anytime we cover somebody or where I'll be like, look,

1489
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 1: full disclosure, met them for dinner friends, You know what

1490
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 1: I'm saying. You think I enjoy doing that. It's embarrassing sometimes,

1491
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 1: but you got to do it, I mean, because otherwise,

1492
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,919
Speaker 1: how much worse would it look to do the coverage

1493
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: to say something favorable and then some photo or whatever

1494
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: comes out of the two eight. It looks horrible, so

1495
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 1: like that's what these people are in that position. So anyway,

1496
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 1: you got to try and hold yourself up to an

1497
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,639
Speaker 1: ethical standard. That's why we spend a lot of time

1498
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 1: on it because again, I know a lot of people

1499
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:15,519
Speaker 1: watch the show, consume a lot of stuff, you know,

1500
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 1: on the internet, and I do think people should ask

1501
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 1: bigger questions. And this isn't just politics, it's it genuinely

1502
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 1: is all industries. And I'm assuming that a lot. I

1503
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 1: really think it has never been worse than I don't

1504
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,360
Speaker 1: think it's ever actually been worse as bad as the

1505
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 1: mainstream media was, because they still have a lot of

1506
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:34,639
Speaker 1: power and a lot of the grifters are the ones

1507
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 1: who are succeeding the most, which means that both sides

1508
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 1: of this, of the spectrum of like what you're consuming

1509
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,600
Speaker 1: is more than likely like bought, paid for, shaped or

1510
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 1: whatever in some way. And that's that's the real.

1511
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 2: We need you guys to be discerning consumers and who

1512
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 2: you're you know, if you want to support independent media,

1513
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 2: truly support places that are actually independent media, because yeah,

1514
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 2: we're headed towards a worse cesspool than with mainstream media,

1515
01:12:58,160 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 2: and that was already a pretty low bar.

1516
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:02,520
Speaker 7: The PA